1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are sitting down with Remarks 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: City of Pluton Mining, and we talk about bitcoin. We 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: talk about mining. We talked about electricity waste as what 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: people say, how renewable energy can solve that, different ways 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: we can look at and use renewable and energy for that. 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: We talk about proof of work versus proof of steak, 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: um security, mining costs, and things that are that revolve 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: around the security of the bitcoin blockchain. We also get 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: into some sanctions, regulations and things like that and talk 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: about the future of big win. It's it's a really 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: good conversation I was excited to have with Remark. So 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: here we go. All right, Welcome to another episode of 20 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: the Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are joined by Ramac 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: City with Pluton Mining and Um. He's got a really 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: interesting story, specifically about mining. I know it's a topic 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people have interested in. It's a super 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: important piece of the entire cryptom ecosystem. So we're gonna 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: dig into some mining stuff today. I'm excited to get 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: into that and remark, welcome to the show. Thank you 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: so much for giving us a chance to talk about 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: our project and having me on your podcast. Yeah. Great. So. UM, 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: just so we can get a little background, so we 30 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: have some context of who we're talking to you. Why 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: you just kind of tell us a little bit about 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: yourself and how you got here into this mining space. UM. 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 1: My background generalist thing is is real state and technology 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: um UM. I moved to Houston from l A in 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: late eighties. I started a couple of thousand means about hurts. 36 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: I helped it was a family situation, and then in 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: early nineties I got into technology m I started Tennant 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: screen service. In late nineties, I built one of the 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: first nation white criminal databases. Uh. Fast forward to about 40 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: four years ago, I started doubling into I c O 41 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: S and crypto. Got to consult with a company about 42 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: an I c O UM and we ended up actually 43 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: this recommending that they do such a thing. Then I 44 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: got into mining. In about the mid two thousand seventeen, 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: I got to buy some a SIC miners, the famous 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: S nine, and I ended up flipping those, uh and 47 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: got into hardware. Then in in early two thousand eighteen, 48 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: got into try to mind myself with a company out 49 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: of in Atlanta that was a tool disaster. We ended 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: up suing that company in Atlanta, locking the owner out 51 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: of the data center because they were just treating cutomers right. 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: And from that you could see it was coming. I 53 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: got into a bigger project. I ended up buying uh 54 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: about fifty acres of land in western law hobby thought 55 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: about building a project that's more pragmatic, solves the problem 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: for for mining. Yeah. Okay, so you experienced some of 57 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: the problems firsthand that that's inherent in the industry, and 58 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: now you've just decided to kind of go out and 59 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: solve them on your own. It sounds like it's it's 60 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: an attempt, correct Now. At the time you talked about 61 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 1: buying the AASIC miners, the S nine, So for those 62 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: that don't know, S nine miners are used for mining bitcoin, 63 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: and so you bought them. But at the time in 64 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: ten I guess when bitcoin was running super hot and parabolic, Um, 65 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: you thought it would be a better idea just to 66 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: sell the miners than it was to actually mine at 67 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, if if you're so, let me just 68 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: say my focus was on on bitcoin mining generally speaking, 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: because the other the other you know, mining situations were 70 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: not up tomis for long term structure wise. So I 71 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: got into the S nine and they were hard to get. 72 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 1: This is we're talking about summer of two thousand seventeen. 73 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: Trying to get miners from bitmin which was the only 74 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: supplier at the time, you had a four or five 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: months backlog and you have to fight your way to 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: get the miners. I got my hands on ordering about 77 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: two hundred of them, and I had to pay cash 78 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: upfront for it, and it took four months for them 79 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: to actually deliver. So it was I mean, they were 80 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: hot items. So by the time they arrived, they were 81 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: so over priced. This is late two thousand seventeen. Bitcoin 82 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: was hitting twenty you know, and those miners by the 83 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: time they arrived there, I mean, they were they were 84 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: valuable pieces piece of equipment. Yeah. So, Um, for those 85 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: that aren't aware, I'm sure most people are with bitcoin, 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: it's a proof of work consensus mechanism, and the way 87 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: that the coins are brought into existence is through mining. 88 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: It's a super important piece of the ecosystem and it's 89 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: really about security of that. Now I'm curious for me um. 90 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: You know, with the mining we have with bitcoin, we 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: have a difficulty rating that goes up and down. And 92 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: when we saw the bitcoin price crashing, you know, down 93 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: into the three thousand, well even if the six thousand ragns, 94 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk about this death spiral 95 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: and that you know, the miners would be losing money 96 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: and and I think maybe a lot of them didn't 97 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: shut down. What did you think during that time? So 98 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: it's a tough situation. I got involved once I understood 99 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: what mining was. Miners are essentially those computers that hold 100 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: the this real Ledger records. Without the miners that blocked 101 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: in the network wouldn't exist. That's when. And then you 102 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: have the built in algorithm that that are just every 103 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: so often about ten days. Uh, And that way itself 104 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: gives you time. Now, these a sick miners, they use 105 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: about fifteen hundred wards of power to give you an 106 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: idea to bedroom, you know, a condo in southern California 107 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: uses about four hundred and fifty per month. These miners 108 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: are fifteen hundred wats. So it's all amount a matter 109 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: of cost structure, the degree of difficulty adjust itself based 110 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: on how many miners are connected. So you don't have 111 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: to worry about that. You just need to worry about 112 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: what your cost of operating these miners are the biggest 113 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: costs being electricity. So if you're running at a low cost, 114 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: people in you know, December of two thousand and seventeen, 115 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: we're signing contract to host their miners at fifteen cents 116 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: per per killer. What the fifteen cents you're essentially paying 117 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: about two hundred dollars a month for the miners hosting. 118 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: That's just not something you can do long term u in. 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: In my opinion, bitcoin is going to continue to hit 120 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,239 Speaker 1: the higher highs and higher lows, but when it hits 121 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: the lows, you need to be prepared for it. And 122 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: that's essentially the problem. Right. So as the price of 123 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: bitcoin came down, the profitability of mining went down as well, 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of miners couldn't continue to mind because 125 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: their cost of electricity were too high. I think I 126 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: saw the average was around five cents or so, does 127 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: that make sense when now or the full cost of 128 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: electricity cost of electricity that you do in mind, five 129 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: cents is actually pretty good. In early two thousand eighteen, 130 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: when the prices started to drop, was closer to ten 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: to eleven cents. If you got anything below ten cents 132 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: that was a good price. Then you had giggle. What 133 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: who was offering you know, two and a half cents 134 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: three cents to people, which was I mean over the 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: top all included cost for them that they were selling 136 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: to retail was still seven and a half to eight cents. 137 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, And as the people unplugged where they didn't 138 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: have the coverage, that's where you you had the problem 139 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: of of basically people unplugging their miners, that in itself 140 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: drops down and it will adjust a degree of difficulty 141 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: the distribution for the others. So it's a matter of 142 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: it becomes a matter of survival of the best, essentially, right, 143 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: and and the survival of the best a lot of it, 144 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: like you said, comes down to that cost, and a 145 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of that cost is um depending on where you're located. 146 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: Um right, So in southern California and New York. I mean, 147 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: you have some of the highest electricity rates in the country. 148 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: I'm in southern California. I know in the summertime I'm 149 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: paying peak like forty cents a kilowat absolutely and then 150 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: if you haven't in some of the areas where you're renewable, 151 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: you can get those costs down, like you said with 152 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: giga water places that are hooked up to that. Now, 153 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: the thing with mining is um you know it is 154 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: super important to the ecosystem for security. But you have 155 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: this whole argument about bitcoin that it's a big waste 156 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: of electricity. What are your thoughts on that it is? 157 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: And that's one of the shoes. Not enough people are 158 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: using their own renewable source. Most people idea was to 159 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: go find which area they have cheap electricity and try 160 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: to grab that, so they're not doing anything to help 161 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: the ecosystem and they try to solve any problem. Yes, 162 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: it's using a lot of electricity, But if people start 163 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: to use their own produced electricity through renewable source, that's 164 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: where you're going to see a lot of the movement, 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: and that's where the people are going to the future 166 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: is going to be. I thought I've seen reports that 167 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: as much as eighty percent of bitcoin miners are already 168 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: being ran on renewable energy, well not on their own 169 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: internal they go to use. For example, giggle what claimed 170 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: that they use some renewable because the majority of the 171 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: utility companies out there use the hydro power to generate electricity. 172 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: That's not what I'm talking about. They you need to 173 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: own your own hydro power, You need to go out 174 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: there build your own solar form. If you're saying that that, 175 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: it may be true that miners are ran on renewable energy, 176 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: but that's not energy that the mining company is actually 177 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: generating on their own. They're buying it from a power 178 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: company which is generating be a renewable Absolutely correct, That's 179 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: exactly what I was trying to say. As far as 180 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: the you know, the argument that that it's a waste 181 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: of electricity, I don't know if I agree with that 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: because I don't believe that there is a waste. Right 183 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: is an energy created on demand, So you're a you're 184 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: a customer of the energy company and they're going to 185 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: supply it for you as you need it, or you 186 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: can create it on your own. But there's really no waste, 187 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: is there. So let me play the devil's advocate that 188 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: the issue is that for utility company, when you're a customer, 189 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: they have to generate electricity at their peak usage. And 190 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: if you're taking that and they're generating electricity, the community 191 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: at large doesn't see mining as a benefit to the community. 192 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a sector that chris tremendous number 193 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: of jobs or does anything specifically for the current you know, 194 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: society to solve any problems. So the way they see it. 195 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: Take an example, again, we can take I mean data centers, 196 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: bit main bot or giggle what, gigle what. Yeah, they 197 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: had the capacity util to the companies had the capacity. 198 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: But then going in there taking that energy for for mining, 199 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: you're taking five to ten years worth of that community's 200 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: electrictic growth away from them. And that's where the problem is. 201 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: That's why people in general see mining as a waste, 202 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: because you're taking electricity away from the community's ability to grow. 203 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: Once they run out that peak capacity, then they have 204 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: to spend billions of dollars into building more capacity. And 205 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: and and then I guess, as they say, right, one 206 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: man's trash another treasure, right, So we all value different things. 207 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: I saw recently there was an article that said bitcoin 208 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: mining uses as much power as as as Las Vegas 209 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: something about New Zealand. I mean, yeah, I mean it's 210 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: using a lot of it. Like first say that, but 211 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: but but then you have to go I mean, and 212 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree with 213 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: you that the average public doesn't doesn't see the value 214 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: in that. UM. I think for us, those of us 215 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: that do understand what's going on with bitcoin, we do 216 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: see the value. So then I would argue that the 217 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: electricity that has spent, the money that is spent, is 218 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: worth it. It's worth it to secure this asset, and 219 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: it's worth a heck of a lot more than powering 220 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,119 Speaker 1: Las Vegas that a bunch of gamblers go to or whatever. Um. 221 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: I I understand the average public doesn't see that, but 222 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: I think over time hopefully they will. So the year 223 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: is continue to do this, and the way I'm trying 224 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: to I'm trying to make sure the mining community can 225 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: see what the average person is looking at. In two 226 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: to five years, all these communities are going to have 227 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: to increase production of electricity because they're growing internally, and 228 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: a lot of that capacity has been taken by the miners. 229 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: So they're going to be looking at either the electrictic 230 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: capacity for the utail, the companies issue two bonds and 231 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: average you know, residents constituents are going to have to 232 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: pay for it two to five years. Every single community 233 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: is going to have to increase either capacity or end 234 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: void terminate the contract for a handful of companies who 235 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: are sucking up enough power for one to five million households. 236 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: And that's the problem coming up. Why would what I 237 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: would the resident of Las Vegas one to approve a 238 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: two billion dollar bond for extra capacity if five miners 239 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: are terminated and that you know, creates capacity for another 240 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: million household That's where essentially the problem is going to be. Yeah, yeah, 241 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: I can definitely see that. I'm curious though, you say, 242 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: like every community would have to do that? Um, wouldn't 243 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: it be? I mean, so one people think that mining 244 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: is really concentrated in China. Um, But I guess you're 245 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: saying every community, So you see it really the mining 246 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: becoming really decentralized. That was so. I was actually at 247 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: the World Dishtrial Mining Summit that bit men put together 248 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: last September October. I was actually one of the speakers there. Um, 249 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: let me tell you all the miners from China, Mongolia 250 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: over there, and they were all looking for new hosting 251 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: space to move their miners. Um there, I think that 252 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the miners out of China either shut 253 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: down or moved out of that space. A lot of 254 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: miners are coming onto to us, quite a bit in Europe, 255 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: a lot in Australia. So it's getting a lot more 256 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: spread and it's not nearly as concentrated as it used 257 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: to be in China and Mongolia. Mongolia was one of 258 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: the I mean, I think at some point that we're 259 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: giving out electricity for a penny. Her Killer was right. 260 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: So we're starting to see that decentralization of mining. And then, um, 261 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: I would you know, in investing, I always say money 262 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: goes where it's treated best, um, and I would imagine 263 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: the same is true. Right, the mining is going to 264 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: go where it gets the best rate, So it'll go 265 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: seek out those low power areas of the world, and 266 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: that's where those set up shop. Absolutely, as a free 267 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: market thinker, I have to always believe that. I always 268 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: have to believe in supply and demand. Um. Now I understand, 269 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: and there's government intervention in price fixing and whatnot sometimes, 270 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: but for the most part, there's always apply in demand. 271 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: So it would make sense that being in southern California 272 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: or New York with the highest electricity rates sets because 273 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: the demand is the highest, and likewise the places with 274 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: the cheapest electricity probably have the least demand. And wouldn't 275 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: that be where the miners would go to set up 276 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: and help maybe offset that or augment that. Listen, they 277 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: don't see the community doesn't see that asn't offset They can't. 278 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: They can offset it for a couple of years, but 279 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: remember again, they're taking away from the community's ability to 280 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: expand before they have goal to create factory, find another 281 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: way to generate more power. Electricity companies the grid has 282 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: to worry about the peak our usage and then when 283 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: it goes to off peak, it's not that they can 284 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: just shut it off. They can reduce the production by 285 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: but not by fifty seven percent. So they are going 286 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: to go to all those and they they've tried. It's 287 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: not for lack of trying. Texas Bit main body Data Center, Kentucky. 288 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: They even bought it in Niche County where giggle what 289 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: was but they never ever got those two to open 290 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: up and they saw they used the electricity, but within 291 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: two years they got bills and notices and the public 292 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: utility commissions void and terminated their contract with a four 293 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: x pricing crews. Right yeah, So, um, what you're doing 294 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: and what we're talking about is that you're looking at mining, 295 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: but where you can produce your own power. So instead 296 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: of putting the load on the local um the local 297 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: system and making taxpayers pay for that VIH bonds, you 298 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: can just create your own electricity through your own renewables, 299 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: mostly through solar exactly, and the trick becomes the peak 300 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: hour production. So the way we try to solve this 301 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: problem is being pragmatic. If you go all solar, it's 302 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: too expensive because at night you don't have solar. Battery 303 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: storage is too expensive still, and if you go all grit, 304 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna run into a problem two to five years 305 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: after starting. So what we did is that we're going 306 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: to produce our own electricity for peak hour in the 307 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: best area of the world for this purpose. We're sitting 308 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: in western Mohave in the ninety percentile of solar rate 309 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 1: for electricity production cool weather. Again, this is western Mohabbi 310 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: not the Mohabbi desert everybody has in mind. And then 311 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: at night we become partners with the utility companies. Saturdayn 312 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: California Edison one of the most expensive electricity you know, 313 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: companies in the world. As you mentioned they are. They 314 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: listed price for volume retail on commercial for off peak 315 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: is two and a half since per kilo WA and 316 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: they want to get rid of that excess capacity because 317 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: they don't know what to do with it at night. 318 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of the opportunities that are 319 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: in mining. So UM. For example, you have anywhere down 320 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: from a single person could buy a mining rig and 321 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: set it up in their closet all the way up 322 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: to um giant institutions setting up, you know, billion dollar facilities. 323 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: Where do you see the opportunity? I mean, do you 324 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: really think there's a good opportunity for individual people to 325 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: get in or really uh is it really more reserved 326 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: for big institutions or can everybody participate in some capacity? 327 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts there? I think there's gonna be 328 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: opportunity for both. You're gonna see a lot specially for 329 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: the for the A six. You're gonna see a lot 330 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: of structured basically from the big, big money, and you're 331 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: going to see smaller opportunity that are gonna come from 332 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: Let's take Venezuela in in In that case, there's a 333 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: lot of individuals basically run in using the the the 334 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: mining as extra basically income. So there's gonna be a 335 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: combination of the two in my opinion. Moving forward, you're 336 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: also going to see with renewables, you're gonna see areas 337 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: that are under developed that are going to use more 338 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: and more renewable energy to for for production of the mining. 339 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: Take areas that are in similar situations like Venezuela right 340 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: now with high inflation, who have solar there's no reason 341 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: why they wouldn't be able to use that that energy 342 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: to do mining and generate you know, income for the community, 343 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: to help the community. I think that's where the future 344 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: is going to be. So you think there's still opportunity 345 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: for the little guy to have one or a few 346 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: machines and make a profit all the way up to 347 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: you if big institutions wanted to get in. Long term, 348 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: there's there's obstunity for everybody. This is not a short term, 349 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: long term absolutely. Now, are you only focused on bitcoin 350 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: or do you look at other coins as well. So 351 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: at this point for this particular project, we're just focused 352 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: on Bitcoin because it's structured. As you mentioned it, it's 353 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: already into the ASIC world. There's no change. It's on 354 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: based on proof of work. There's no rumors of changing that. 355 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: Nobody can tweak with it too much. So for long term, 356 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: if I'm gonna invest x amount of money of my 357 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: own money and I want an area that's basically guaranteed 358 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: for the next twenty five years, I can make long 359 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: term predictions. And that's why we're focusing at this point 360 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: strictly on on bitcoin mining. Right. Yeah, as you mentioned, 361 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: they haven't said anything about moving to a pos nor 362 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: do I think that would ever even become a reality. However, 363 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: it is a reality for a lot of other coins. 364 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, Ethereum has been talking about switch quite a while, 365 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: and it seems like most new projects coming out today 366 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: are all pos um. Do do you see that as well? 367 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: And does that worry you for like long term you 368 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: know ability not for bitcoin. I don't see that happening. 369 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: There's just too too so you think you can find 370 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: focusing on bitcoin and not having bitcoin at this point, Yes, 371 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: the other ones. I mean there's there's arguments to be 372 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: made on both sides for you know, proof of stake 373 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: or proof award, but yeah, for proof award and bit bitcoin, 374 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm comfortable moving forward where I can see future in 375 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: this aspect of the mining with the proof award for 376 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: the next twenty thirty years. Right. What about regulations? So, 377 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean we have we're seeing just kind of more 378 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: and more regulations. We're seeing the US being and most 379 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: of the developed countries. I guess do you asked Europe, etcetera. 380 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: But the US has kind of being a little bit 381 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: tough on regulations. We've seen with the big Facebook news 382 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: that came out and whatnot. Um, they really want to 383 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: control the on rams and off rams for sure. Um, 384 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: how how does how does that affect mining? Because you're 385 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: basically creating it from nothing, Um, they can't trace that trail, etcetera. 386 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? So I'm gonna say 387 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: something that's not too popular in crypto. We need some 388 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: some regulation. We don't need regulations like they have in India. 389 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: If you touch crypto, you're gonna end up in jail. 390 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: But what what do we need? And why? Listen? I 391 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: don't think if if you're a sixteen year old and 392 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: you come up with a wish list and you label 393 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: it a white paper, you should be able to raise twelve, 394 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: thirteen or a hundred thousand dollars without some consequence to 395 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: you if you don't deliver on what you promised. I 396 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: can agree with that. Yes. On the other hand, you 397 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: shouldn't go after a company like take Facebook for example, 398 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: they need to do know your customer. Everybody says just 399 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: because you're a member of Facebook that doesn't mean But 400 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: as it stands right now, from what I understand, if 401 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: you raise money through a token offering, even one person 402 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: of that money goes into either expanding your current infrastructure 403 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: or operation or into getting into new ones, it wipes 404 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: the utility condition away from that offering. So SEC is 405 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: going to come after you because it becomes instantly a 406 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: security is offered. That to me is the other extreme. 407 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: I think when it comes to raising money, that seems 408 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: to be pretty black and white. You know, now, what 409 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: we've seen is these companies they're raising money for their 410 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: private company, and then they have a separate token offering 411 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: where they're not raising money. Um, I think that's clear. 412 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm more concerned with you know, and you talked about 413 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: your facility in California and I'm in California as well, 414 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: and we had a representative Sherman come out and say 415 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: what a month or two ago and say specifically, quote, UM, 416 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: we need to ban US citizens from owning cryptocurrencies. Um, 417 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: you know, And so I just talk about just like 418 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: those regulations that could um specifically, I'm getting into the 419 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: on and off ramps UM in the k y C. 420 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering how that affects mining though, because um, 421 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: you're creating it, you're not buying it. But are you 422 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: Are you seeing any of that or you don't think 423 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: that's really getting into the mining side of thing. So 424 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: the irony of our project, we sit property line to 425 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: property line to a golden silver mining operation. It's pretty ironic. Yeah, 426 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: it's this is no different than them. They're digging gold 427 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: from the ground, they're generating gold. If they hand that 428 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: gold out to somebody, they should know who they're handing 429 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: it to. Same thing with crypto. If we're generating crypto 430 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: and we're handing it to somebody, we should know who 431 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: they are. We should do our or you know, you 432 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: know your customer M l A and so forth. For 433 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: if we're handing that out to somebody, so that regulation 434 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: has to be there. But Sherman's idea, that's the other extreme. 435 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: No U S citizens should touch crypto. I think one 436 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: thing crypto has demonstrated is how many of these people 437 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: who we thought were pretty smart have no idea how 438 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency works, what it is, what blockchain is, and hollo. 439 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: They have capacity of accepting that they may not know. 440 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: I've been involved in this thing for four years. I'm 441 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: a newbie by all measures, and I've done technology. I've 442 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: done all these things. Uh, but I also know I 443 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: probably don't even understand fifty percent of it. For any 444 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: of these people to think that they have a couple 445 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: of advisors with whom they spend five minutes to explain 446 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: something so broadly, and then they come up with such 447 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: a black owned white decision, no US citizens would touch cryptocurrency. 448 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: That's just not right. Yeah, it's not right. I agree 449 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: on I agree with that. You know, and you can 450 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: see the policy makers, the legislators, they're usually pretty old 451 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: and um, this is a new technology for young people, right, 452 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: So that's a that's a problem in itself. However, in 453 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: his case, he understands exactly, and he quoted it and 454 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: he said the reason why is because it undermines the 455 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: US dollar and the U that's the security problem. And 456 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: if and the U S dollar could lose its ability 457 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: to sanction countries like Iran. He called them out specifically, 458 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: so he actually kind of gets it, um, and he's 459 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: afraid of that. We saw Christine Leguard from the I 460 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: m F. She said, quote unquote, UM, we need to 461 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: stop innovation because it threatens to disrupt everything. And so 462 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: they get it right, They're like, WHOA, Well, we can't 463 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: have this because it's gonna ruin everything that we have. 464 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: That's the whole point, right, So for bitcoin it is, 465 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: but if they understood it, they would be working on 466 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: trying to use the technology blockchain for things that's i mean, voting, 467 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: property ownership, car registration. It's like blockchain was just meant 468 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: for those. I mean, imagine everybody's complaining about their voting 469 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: fraud whose you know, people are voting to three times. 470 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: If you put the whole thing on blockchain, you're done. 471 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: Nobody can do it. It's immediately there. And that's why 472 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: I have to applaud this state of Delaware. They're moving 473 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: forward with that. They have a law that now a 474 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: corporation the issue shares under blockchain and it has to 475 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: be under blockchain for everybody to see them verify. Those 476 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: are the approaches they should be taking. You know, they 477 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: understand and I'm sure somebody has handed them some sort 478 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: of boiler plate of what it is. Yes, it undermines 479 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: the the US dollar, but that should say something about 480 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: the US dollar. First of all, they can you should 481 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: be working with it. If they think they can stop 482 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: blockchain bitcoin and and the majority of these that's why 483 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: I say they don't understand it. You and I know 484 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: there's no Look at China, they've tried to stop it. 485 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: The it's just not possible. It's not possible. And uh, 486 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, we can see how well the US has 487 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: been able to stop the flow of drugs. That hasn't 488 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: worked so well. And and the other problem is, you know, 489 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: like he said, Sherman said specifically, Um, it takes away 490 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: our ability to slap sayings is on Iran. So what 491 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: does Iran think about him saying that? Well, Iran is like, really, 492 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: well that's great, then we want it right. And so 493 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: you have these couple of countries that that oppose it, 494 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: but the rest of the country is the world is 495 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: gonna embrace it. And so it's it's very interesting and 496 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: I don't like to predict things, but it's definitely something 497 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: to pay attention to. Absolutely absolutely, Yeah, yeah, good stuff. So, um, 498 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: where the record, let me just add to that. I 499 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: am from Iran, I'm Irani, and I actually gave an 500 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: interview for publication in the wrong so uh, you know, 501 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's you're a hundred percent right on that aspect. 502 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: Oh well, I should have asked that earlier. So that's interesting. So, um, 503 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, I've had several guests that are international that 504 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: have been lived in one or two countries, come from 505 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: other countries, which I think is great because it gives 506 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: you this this bigger, broader perspective where you know, a 507 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: lot of people in the US are are very kind 508 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: of close minded, haven't really traveled a law up and 509 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: I always have to remind people that this is a 510 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: global thing, and so coming from another country, um, it 511 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: really gives you that perspective. So I'm curious, coming from 512 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: here on, um, do you see this differently? I mean deuced? 513 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: How are they looking at this do you have any 514 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: idea what they've been doing as far as their own 515 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: regulations and how they're viewing it. I'm not very familiar 516 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: from the inside, and I've been around the few countries 517 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: lived there. I moved to the US twice. I grew 518 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: up in France. I sent my teen years there. Um. 519 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: I met a few people, a couple of reporters at 520 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: the World the it main hat world uh usial mining 521 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: in Tipolisi, Georgia. From what I understand that, I mean, 522 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: they have some cheap electristy, but from everything I hear, 523 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: they're running to the same problems as everybody else's because again, 524 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: the country was giving. In those countries, the utility companies 525 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: are government own, they're not private, so they were giving 526 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: the Christy out to to do these things, and now 527 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: they're going back giving those putting those people out of 528 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: business as well. So it's the same cycle over and over. 529 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's a catch twenty two. They are implementing regulation, 530 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: it is not really helping them to to bypass the sanctions. 531 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: Uh in a sense that puts it them in it. 532 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: But yes, there it is a loophole if you will. Yeah. So, um, 533 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm curious to know, what is you what what is 534 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: the thing that has you the most excited about this 535 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: space in the near term? Um, maybe in regards to 536 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: mining or something else, like what do you what do 537 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: you see coming down that you're you're focusing on you're 538 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: excited about. I I think it's it's opening up the 539 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: door bringing on these politicians who don't believe in blockchain, 540 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: and they're more focused on those aspects, for you know, 541 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: is helping Ivan bypass sanctions versus how can I get involved? 542 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: How can I make us a better country, our system 543 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: a better system by implementing blockchain? UM, I know there's 544 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: a company out here in Santa Monica that's working on 545 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: on a network of voting on on a not exactly 546 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: a blockchain, it's a semi private structure that they're working on. 547 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: Those are really the part that really gets me excited 548 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: is to see how it's going to help the general 549 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: public and and all the other aspects of the way 550 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: we live, just like the Internet that I'm a dinosaur 551 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: in this space. I'm fifty two, and I think most 552 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: people I meet are less than half of my age. 553 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: They have an experienced first and how the Internet change 554 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: the way we live I remember building my having my 555 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: first business card, handing it to people and I at 556 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: an email and a website on there, and they're like, 557 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: what is this again? So this is the same thing. 558 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: This is gonna change us. I think the voting, car registration, 559 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: public ownership, property ownership, those are really really exciting aspects. 560 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: The shows the general public hord this technology can change 561 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: the way will live a thousand times more than the Internet. 562 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: And you just hope it's all gonna be built on 563 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: the bitcoin, right, Well, no, Bitcoin won't be able to 564 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: handle those things. Bitcoin is going to be, in my opinion, 565 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: the gold standard. I mean, gold is there, but there's 566 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: other things. You don't go buy gold, you know at 567 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: Starbucks pay them in gold, but gold is there. Is 568 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: gold is a layer one based settlement layer, but you 569 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: build payment rails on top of that. Um, and I 570 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: think with layer two and layer three stuff we already 571 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: seen on bitcoin, eventually I can get there. Um, it's 572 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: gonna be the most secure chain in the world. So 573 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: I think eventually gonna at least handle all the high 574 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: value stuff and the coin minor like yourself, I would 575 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: love that there are a couple of side chains that 576 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: are being built to address that. UM, it's it's gonna 577 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: be a longer project. In my opinion. You're gonna see 578 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: some of those others on on a on a sideline. 579 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: You're gonna see some exciting exciting, but there won't be 580 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: the ones where you you process millions of transactions per second. 581 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: This is gonna be more of an overall structure, data 582 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 1: keeping and things like that with the new site change 583 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: that are coming on board, right right, all right, Well, 584 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: good stuff, really good information about mining and really thinking 585 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: about the power the renewable I can definitely see. You know, 586 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: one of the one of the things that can really 587 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: affect the security of of bitcoin is if miners have 588 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 1: to stop, if they capitulate, and so you know, the 589 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: producer own power. UM, definitely take some of that away. 590 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: So that's good in the long run. UM. So where 591 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: would people be able to keep up with you? If 592 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: they want to follow you and get more info, they 593 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: can go sign up on Pluton mining dot com. They 594 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: can also look us up on any of the social 595 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: media platforms with the handle Pluton group as one word 596 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: and Pluton To just give you a quick background, this 597 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: is a Pluton P L O U T O N 598 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: and it's the is the Greek god of wealth and finance, 599 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: and ironically the iron in this is pretty interesting because 600 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: it was Pluton p l you t o n, but 601 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: that god apparently got banned in the Greek you know, 602 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: I guess terminology, and they change the name to Pluton 603 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: p l o u t o n to bypass in 604 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: a sense regulatory sanctions, which is interesting. Yeah, that's great. 605 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: All right, Well, thanks so much for coming on. It's 606 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: been talking to you and we'll see you. We'll see 607 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: you later. Thank you again for having me. Hey, if 608 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: you like this episode of the Market Disruptors Podcast, please 609 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: help us take this to the top of the podcast charts. 610 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: Just please do me a favor and rate, review and subscribe. 611 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes 612 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: a long way and helping us reach more people and 613 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you listening, and I'll 614 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: see you next time on the Market Disruptors Podcast