WEBVTT - Experience as Media 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.160 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.000 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:07.520 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.600 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:12.680 I think it's a word purpose driven platform. Like we're 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.040 trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.560 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:24.560 it really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currenti and I'm 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.560 Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to Atlantia. Episode for I Like 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.519 even Numbers, Yes, And this week we have podcast O 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.400 g and Atlas Obscura CEO David Plotts on the show. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.159 We like to call him Platsy, Yes, plots and he 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.800 was okay with it, yeah somehow. So we talk a 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:47.120 lot about Alice Obscura with him and how experiences and 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:52.080 a media company are coming together, converging and creating audiences 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.560 that I think people didn't even know existed. Yeah. This 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:59.920 whole idea of offline experience built from online discovery is 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.560 one that we were super fascinated with and really excited 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.440 to talk to David later in the show. But first 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.920 we want to have a conversation about some of the 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.920 things that have been happening with a lot of traditional publishers. Yeah, so, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.880 if you've been following at Landia podcast on Twitter, you'll 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.320 notice a flurry of tweets over the last few weeks 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:23.280 that have been focused on this convergence of legacy publishers. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.520 So in the news, Fox, Turner and Viacom, who have 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.360 um come together to talk about the future of measurement 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.440 as it relates to broadcasting, presumably cable television, and saying 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.440 that we as an industry need to challenge the way 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.320 standards have been bought. You know, this is proceeding this 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.840 year's upfront, which will be interesting to see how the 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.960 implications and how people think about buying models. When you've 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.000 got three of the biggest broadcast cable network standing up 0:01:56.040 --> 0:02:00.880 and saying, we know that our audiences are proliferating across technology, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.560 we know that viewing behaviors have changed, and we also 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.440 know that the whole person becomes a part that a 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.640 brand and an advertiser want to get to write. And 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.799 so you've got this interesting tension now happening where you've 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.960 got a model that is quickly approaching later in the 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.880 second quarter, which asks brands to commit dollars based on 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.919 upfront ratings. So, now, how do you ask advertisers to 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.600 pay premium for a model you just profusely claimed as 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.480 broken and by the way, on the same platforms that 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.720 you've been using. So I think it's big media companies 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.720 are going at audience in different ways. So you've got 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.600 the Turner Fox Viacom relationship and they're talking about, Okay, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.560 we've got to take data, we've got to look at 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.440 it across the networks, right, and have a different conversation 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.920 about who the audience is and how we're going to 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.280 reach them collectively. Right, So you've got that model, You've 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.760 got the scale game that others are playing with the 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.600 convergence of NBC, Vox and now Conde nasked coming to 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.880 the table to reach a wider and presumably deeper audience 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.280 pool that currently exists in their network. So what does 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.040 that totally mean? That means you can buy right across NBC, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.680 Vox and we say Vox, v X, v o X 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:27.640 through the Conde portfolio and totally get why NBC and 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.040 Vox partnered in early days, right, NBC was looking to 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:35.560 go younger, looking for new thought leadership, especially around people 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.800 like Carrot Swisher and recode and leaning into the super 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.600 smart micro uh communities are subcultures. And then Conde came 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.400 to the table. And when Conde came to the table, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.360 it's set off that red flag. We call it the 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.400 f It was like that we describe as the flare 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.880 going off, and we're looking for a sound effect for 0:03:53.960 --> 0:04:00.280 the flair and when that happened, right, it's confused, Susian 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.840 because Connie Nast presumably has the quality of content, but 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.080 are they really pulling the audience? Are they pulling the audience? 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.040 And then are you competing with vox You're both going 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.320 down very niche paths. So that one is a really 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.320 interesting one and one we need to watch because it 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.240 signals a couple of things to me, and I'm not 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:21.880 sure what direction is going, and I don't know what 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.000 you think about it. On the other side, the Viacom, 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.719 Fox and Turner, I find that one to be more 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:32.880 interesting because they were the first major networks to say 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.520 we have to think about this differently, and we recognize 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.560 that audiences aren't just made up of simple age, sex 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:46.279 and location demographics. Right that we've got you're far pasting 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.000 generations we've got a market to the whole person, and 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:53.280 so I think that that one is more interesting about Listen, 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.240 we know that we've got this audience, but we're gonna 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:59.320 get really fucking smart about who they are, right A men, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:06.599 Sister Peace talking about audience and building experiences within a 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:22.240 media company. We'll be right back. So welcome back, everybody 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.279 to a landy. We are so excited to have the 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.640 O G of podcasting David Plots in the house. Welcome, welcome, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.960 thank you. And I just have to say O G 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.400 of podcasting with gab Fest. You are a co host 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.360 of Political gab Fest. Correct, I am. We've been doing 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.440 it since the year the word podcast was coined. We've 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.920 been podcasting that long, but you've been very long time. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.719 Didn't coin it now, but you could have definitely would 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.760 have coined it had someone else not beaten me to it. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.960 So you've become kind of an unofficial mentor to us, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.120 and we'll talk about that because I think that's really 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.240 interesting about podcasting in general. And uh, some of the 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.280 advice you've given us. If the school oji prayer hands 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.320 is our sign of the day, yeah, exactly, thank you, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.280 thank you. But I think first we got to know 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.040 you when you were at Slate. You were the editor 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.479 in chief of Slate, and now you are on the 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.920 business side. You're the CEO of Atlas Obscura, a new 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:21.640 media company, right that is really blending experience and media together. Yes, 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.920 that is extremely well put. So in I took over 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.280 what was a beautiful little venture that had been started 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:33.040 by Joshua four and Dylan Thurris, and they had created 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.360 the site called out a Secure, which is where people 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.240 could share knowledge of the world's unusual places, so like 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.200 the secret apartment at the top of the Affril Tower 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.719 or the splunking in New York City subways. Yeah, I 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.599 love that, Yes, subways or do you know if you 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.800 take the six train past the end? You can take 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.039 it past the end and you keep going. Legally, they 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:54.600 won't kick you off it because it goes and does 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.560 it turnaround. You can stay on it and you go 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.960 into this abandoned City Hall station, which is this beautiful 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.279 station that was built in the early twenty century. It's gorgeous, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:04.920 it's lit and you can just get a glance of 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.760 it as you just go. Podcast. We're going, actually I 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.600 think we go on the six. We do a record 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.480 if we can. Is that considered spunking If you go 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.000 on a subway spunk and you gotta climb in, Yeah, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.440 we could do that too. I don't know if you 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.560 want to see any climbing on this. Do not encourage 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:25.040 your listeners to splunk. Nobody's blunk. Nobody Nobody's slunk. But 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.120 Alice is talking about the unknown, travel and treasures and 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.600 the idea, and the idea that Dylan and Josh had 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:34.840 was that we're all explorers, that everyone's an explorer. You 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:36.880 don't might not know what you're an explorer, but around 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.440 the corner from you is something that is going to 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.680 surprise you and it's going to light you and amaze you, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.400 and we're going to give you that experience digitally. So 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.280 we created this huge compendium, or rather our users created 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.160 this huge compendium of these unusual places around the world. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.760 That's part of it. But also we created experiences for 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.400 people so that you can come with us and go 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.280 hike to the secret fort in the middle of Rock 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.120 Creek Park in Washington, d C. Or come do a 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.080 falconry workshop in the desert with us. Work you get 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:09.200 to like hunt with a falcon. No way, that's that's cool. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.520 That will really brought outside my comfort home. My favorite, 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.920 my favorite thing that we did at Alice since I've 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:16.320 been there, were there so many things, but one is 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.920 that we took over this bar in green Point one night. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.400 So it's had about people in this bar and broken land. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.680 You like, kicked out all the hipsters and brought your 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:31.600 own We brought our own hips, bring your own. It 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.679 was the hipsters paid us to be there, and we 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.839 brought a wolf to the bar and so the door opened. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.559 Everyone realized that this is when the wolf comes in. 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.040 The bar went. It's totally dead silent, and then you 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.920 hear I can't reenact up with the clatter of these 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.080 wolf claws on the wooden floor. It was incredible. One 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:50.679 of the cool things you've talked to us a bit 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.079 about is how you've kind of went at this idea 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.600 of the problem of building brand in the modern media world. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.920 You talk about how Google and Facebook on your audience, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:00.880 and it's very deff a goal for you to kind 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.800 of go and do things cost effectively, right. I think 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.800 I'm one of the things that you guys, I'm sure 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.640 experience like all the time is that if you're a 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.120 media site you think you have an audience, but really 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.120 your audience is coming to you because that someone has 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.760 done them a Facebook link or they maybe saw you 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.520 on snapchack discover Um that the platform owns your audience. 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.800 You don't own your audience. Your audience doesn't necessarily know 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.599 who you are. They don't. They follow the link and 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.160 they see your story and you get to count them 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.000 as someone who's seen you, but they don't really know 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.040 who you are. And I think one of the the 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.240 that's a very deadly position to be in because all 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.360 of a sudden, these people who you think are connected 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.480 to you the way a newspaper subscriber used to be 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.760 connected to the newspaper that they paid for, they're not 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.679 connected to you. They don't care, they don't really know. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.199 You're just a flip in the feed exactly. Yeah, I 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.559 haven't used that. That's a good expression. Yeah, And so 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.559 our premise is that that, um, if we can build 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.720 genuine liken unity, in genuine sort of real experiences for people, 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.840 that we can then create a brand that actually has 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.600 meaning for them. And people are coming so like your 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.719 community right of of readers or I don't even know 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:18.079 what you call them, like explorers right, are contributing to 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.800 the events, contributing to some of the local points that 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.120 you guys are talking about. Do you recruit them? Do 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.480 they just talk to you guys and say, Hey, this 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.320 is something that's really cool, Like how do you guys 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.640 find those people? Well, it depends some of some of 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.560 them find us. There. In every town, there's somebody who 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.440 knows like here's the weird history, or here's the house 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.719 that al Capone lived in for seven years when he 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.080 was a kid, or whatever particular thing it is. There's 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.440 always someone in town who knows it. And sometimes they 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.160 have an outlet, but often they don't have an outlet, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.400 so so they stumble across us and then they start 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.080 to contribute. There's this kid, I shouldn't call him a kid. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.480 He's a full grown adult in Washington named Elliott Carter 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.200 who knows more about Washington, d c. And it's distinctive 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.840 history than anybody. And he kind of found me and said, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.040 I took him out to coffee one day and here's 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:05.959 this person. Now every time I turned around, he's like 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.160 pointed out some other incredible thing. There's this uh, like 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.360 did you know the US Constitution is at the National 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.959 Archives and every night so you can go see it. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.240 I don't know if you've ever seen it, the Declaration 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.880 of Independence and Constitution, and every night there's this mechanism, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.080 this elevator that lowers it into a safe in the ground. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:24.520 I lived in d C. I can tell you my 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.360 my tours of DC are different than finding the Constitution. 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:32.040 I was there for college. Oh yeah, as far as 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.559 with great history too, yes, I love this idea of 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.120 modern folklore. I was actually um on the train the 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.240 other day going home to Connecticut, and I was on 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.880 Atlas Obscures website and immediately GEO located me and was like, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.520 here are things in Connecticut and there are things like 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.200 I'm like, oh, I live in Stanford, Connecticut home. There 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.679 were some really cool things that I had never I 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.520 had no idea about. That's I mean, that's really that's 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.960 really interesting, Like how do brands? Because I think something 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.679 that we've talked a lot about, Laura and I have 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.920 talked a lot about, is this idea of local community 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.240 becoming more important, especially post election, Like what's happening in 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.760 your local community? Do you really know who are the voices? 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.240 Who are the people? You know? How do brand start 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.280 tapping into something that Alice Obscure is doing in certain 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:29.360 communities that are important to them. That's a really good question. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.199 Let me think about that. I think one way is 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.800 and now, and I think eight US cities we have 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.720 what are called Atlas Obscure Societies, and these are local 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.680 organizations and they're run by somebody who works for us, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.720 usually in a part time basis, and every week they're 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.839 putting together local experiences. So in Washington, d C. I 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.199 noticed that we're going to do a tasting of George 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.600 Washington's whiskey and so they'll be a whiskey tasting down 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.280 the mountain, getting it to a totally different side of 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.560 the president. Huge, he was a huge where that somewhere 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:11.079 my boyfriend is putting in next trip. Um, it's one 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.280 way a brand could engage. Right, Well, we've been doing 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.840 these tours. If you're listening, Johnny Walker, if you're listening, Yeah, 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.599 like a historic whiskey tour be amazing. There's all this 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.520 kind of great whiskey history through Apple Acchian Kentucky. You 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.800 could do so much cool stuff. So, David, when you 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.520 talk a lot about you know, these um new ways 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.640 of curating experiences in this blend of what we call 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.520 like mixed reality. Right, you've got the offline thing happening, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.480 you've got the online creation of editorial. One of the 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.720 interesting lines I've heard of late came from Jed Hartman, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.199 the c r OH of UM Washington Post. He said, 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.400 you know, we're at a time when you're always um 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.720 one click away from somebody never coming back to your site, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.199 and in a in a space where you're playing in 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:02.120 a world that's blurred. How are you gauging the effect 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.760 of this and success of Atlas Obscure? What does that 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.800 look like? Well, we're in a lot of different lines 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.360 of businesses. So we have published a book. We you know, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.880 are piloting podcasts, We do digital media, we do events, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.600 we do international trips. So there are a lot of 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.160 different ways we can measure success. I think, like most people, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.720 we look at the kind of top line audience number, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.800 but that is not sufficient. I mean that's sort of 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.200 just like you can get a Reddit spike and all 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:32.960 of a sudden, your top line audience number looks great. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.840 So we are trying to and I could use some advice, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.520 and we're trying to get some kind of measurement, which 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.520 kind of combines the durability of time on site with 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:49.040 like user action around events and you know, buying things 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.320 from us. But because we're a young brand, that's all. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.160 It's all kind of I think off earlier about this, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.800 I was like, I want to talk to David about this. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.400 I want to say, like, why even have a website today? 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.080 And I think that that's an interesting question for you, 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.040 and then let's take it further, like I think that 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.560 you guys are well positioned to do something totally different 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.600 in terms of how content comes to life via experience 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.480 and only have that be the centerpiece. You just position 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.520 Obscure as a parent company that's a collective of different 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.920 revenue streams, right, and different platforms that exist. Which kudos 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.640 to you because I think a lot of brands are 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.760 trying to figure out how they go off platform and 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.120 so I think you have an advantage there. But the 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.320 other website, it's like go off of like yeah dot com. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.760 But the other part that's interesting is also to your 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.320 advantage is you don't have audience. You have explorers. So 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.560 to me, the fact that people can go deep and 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.160 they're not there to just click on an article and 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.840 keep moving there there to immerse themselves in experience and 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.880 potentially then go on one to me things like can 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.360 version rate to experience or you're a lot closer depth 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.400 of exploration is more intriguing to me as a marketer, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.080 and that Yeah, that's exactly. That's the kind of we 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.680 don't have like a great CRM tool, but we that's 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.280 what we need is to figure that out because right 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.200 now we have we know how many people went to events, 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.600 we know how many people bought the book, we know 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.240 how many people are going on trips, we know how 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:22.600 many people are the website, but we don't know how 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.000 one gets to the other and game those things. But 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.360 I want to actually just to dig into that into 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:28.920 the kind of website question is like why I have 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.680 a website. So one of the things I think why 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.880 that was obscured in particular as a website is that 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.680 so much of what we do is actually created by 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:40.120 our users. So the entire atlas, this compendium of places, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.200 which is much of what we do online, users started 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.040 all of that. They contributed all of that, and we 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.600 had this amazing moment with so we published a book 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.480 this fall, which, by the way, it gets crazy reviews 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.160 and write crazy reviews. Lena Dunham, like tons of people 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:02.800 have said, this reinvented what travel should be. Yeah, it was. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.880 It's a pretty good endorsements. I'm not quoting her. I'm 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.359 just saying that there are so many people who have 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.520 said to that effect, that's what this is, right. I 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.600 think Lena's actual line was this is the only thing 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.000 that makes me get out of my house, which is 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.000 which I love that. But so that book was a 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.320 bestseller before it came out because we pre sold we 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.080 we told our audience about it. We told the people 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.200 on the website preorder this book. This is a book 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.159 that our users had written. The things that are in 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.639 the book are things that they contributed. They bought a 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.200 book that they had written. Do you start doing a 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.639 reb stream with them? We should start doing well. The 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.320 reb stream is that we is that we put out 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.520 a beautiful book and that we we made it useful, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.280 and that that we are giving them you know, we're 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.520 doing events with them, and we are constantly looking for 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.920 ways to give them these rich experiences. But there is 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.840 a sort of virtuous cycle and the web is important 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.520 part of it because the web is the place we 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.520 give them to contribute contents that adds to your credibility. 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.879 It's like this buy me for me sort of UM model, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:10.400 and that there's many travel mags and sites and destinations 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.040 at a talent and yeah, yeah, I mean everything from 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.879 Airbnb having the potential to become a content platform to 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.320 travel and leisure. So the user content is a key 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.000 part of it. One we have to edit it, so 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:22.680 it needs to be improved, so it needs editing. And 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.760 the other is that we supplement it with professional content 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.640 and stories that we can go out and find which 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.440 have made the audience still bigger and made you know, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.399 people want to sign up for emails, and it creates 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.480 a whole new richness to what we're doing. So I 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.359 think it's I think um the balance that it's a balance. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.399 I mean, it does mean our cost of content production 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.760 is lower than it would be if we were pure 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.119 professional journalism play and that that's a good position to 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:49.879 be in. But I think we need both pieces. I 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.680 want to see I want to see Alice Obscura have 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.639 the ability to go from see this cool thing and 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.159 do it now, like right now, Like if I was 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:04.280 four Square, I'd buy Atlas Obscura. Are you listening. I mean, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.600 that's actually really what they need, right, and that's what 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:14.080 they should have become with. Yeah, but I think Airbnb 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.520 love Airbnb would swallow Atlas Obscura up and make it 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.480 something that it's not. What I think that you guys 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.680 could do is have this immediate like I want to 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.000 do this now. I want to go see a show now, 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.239 like underground this, I want to take the six train now, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:31.920 I want to do this now, I want to buy 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.840 the ticket now. And I think like on demand experience 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:40.239 is really the next kind of step in also in commerce, right, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.240 like having commerce and experience come together for this like amazing, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.680 you know, really great idea are you writing? So don't worry, 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.440 it's reported. We had a we had a kind of 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:57.480 like a very beta extremely like soa beta we barely 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.720 let a thing called we called missions, which was we 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.280 try to do that, which was it wasn't just here's 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.359 a place, it was here's something you can go do now. 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.560 Do you know how many people say all the time 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.119 like I'm bored. Do you know how many how many 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.200 times tons if something stopped you in the middle of 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.719 your tracks and said you can go do this? Now? 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.120 Here are eight things that you can go do now. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.679 I mean, yeah, that's a that's an extremely good idea. Well, 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.879 that's why we do what we do so in this 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.960 in this shared economy, I mean, do you think that 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:34.000 the Atlas obscure a model leans into this shared economy? 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.960 Obviously we have shared services like Uber, the Airbnb, is 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.800 the world, excetera. We actually from a colleague just learned 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.440 of this new app called cool Cousin. Are you familiar 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.520 with coin? So similar to what you're doing, but more 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.800 from a host than guide standpoint versus like actually immersing 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.240 yourself in unpacking. It's like an expert down a certain vertical. 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.200 So like one of our colleagues is food. He's like 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.560 the foodie of New York City, so that's what he 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.959 like he does. You know, how do you see styles 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.080 obscured playing in the shared economy? Do you think it 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.080 gets to a place where you can exchange experiences for 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.800 non transactional things or can you see like some of 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:17.119 your contributors actually um bartering expartering experiences right exactly creating 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.639 their own revenue streams off of a Las obscura. There 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.560 was a great um an example of that, which is 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.399 that we did an event. Last year, we had this 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.639 thing called Obscure Day, which is on May six market calendars. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.439 On May six all over the world, we it's our 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.520 International Day of Exploration, so we do two events all 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:36.760 over the world on that day. And one of the 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.360 ones we did in York last year was this person 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.120 who actually in their apartment has all these Victorian electronics. 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.760 So I guess during the nineteenth century there was you know, 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.440