Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Adamized Studios.
Speaker 2: I'm Sean, come man, I'm a the executive chef in
Speaker 2: a recovery. It's Friday lunch, so I'm here with all
Speaker 2: the chefs clicking away.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Nice, I know it's busy and girl, and I'm Jama
Speaker 4: Nice to me and I'm hot The Psychology of Your
Speaker 4: Twenties at the podcast.
Speaker 3: Jemmy speG and I met for the first time just
Speaker 3: a few days ago in the River Cafe. She was
Speaker 3: introduced to me as the most exciting podcaster today.
Speaker 5: Not great for my ego. Distance keeps us apart.
Speaker 3: She lives in Sydney, I live in London, and we're
Speaker 3: in different stages of our lives for sure, but that
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to matter. We both love talking to people,
Speaker 3: we both love eating delicious food, and we both love
Speaker 3: pondering situations and finding solutions.
Speaker 5: Listen to the.
Speaker 3: Titles of some of her episodes on Psychology of Your
Speaker 3: Twenties and you'll see why I Am hooked, Embrace your
Speaker 3: Authentic Self, Daddy issues, why we date the wrong people,
Speaker 3: career anxiety, disillusionment, and feeling stuck Gemma has been in
Speaker 3: the River Cafe. Cooking asparak is fun due to with
Speaker 3: the chefs. We're going to have lunch and talk some
Speaker 3: more on Monday. She's going back to Australia, but something
Speaker 3: tells me I'm not letting her go.
Speaker 4: That's for sure.
Speaker 5: That's for sure.
Speaker 3: So tell me about cooking fun, Duta, how is that
Speaker 3: in the River Cafe kitchen?
Speaker 4: It was amazing. I actually used to work in a restaurant.
Speaker 4: I used to work at a steak restaurant yeap in Australia,
Speaker 4: in Canberra, so Canberra, capital of Australia. It was how
Speaker 4: I paid my bills when I was at Uni and broke,
Speaker 4: and so it was really fun to come back and
Speaker 4: to be back in the same kind of situation and
Speaker 4: cooking something. And actually we didn't cook much.
Speaker 5: Fresh food so stastant.
Speaker 4: At the steak restaurant now it was fat potatoes. So asparagus,
Speaker 4: fresh asparagus was a nice treat, that's for sure. I'm doing.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited.
Speaker 6: Cool.
Speaker 2: So we're going to cook asparagus, which is really slap
Speaker 2: back in season now, like it's English asparagus and it's
Speaker 2: it's exactly peak season. And then we've made this sauce
Speaker 2: out of cramb fresh eggyolks and palms.
Speaker 5: It's really yummy.
Speaker 2: But the sauces is just you put the three ingreetments
Speaker 2: together and cook them together. And we've done that, and
Speaker 2: I'll just show you how we put it together.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so that living in not very not very
Speaker 2: long at all, for or four minutes, but because.
Speaker 5: It's so fresh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't take that long as to cook super fresh,
Speaker 2: actually probably slightly.
Speaker 4: When it turns that beautiful shade of grain, it's just gorgeous.
Speaker 2: And what we might do is we have this sauce
Speaker 2: which is really yummy, which is.
Speaker 4: Put on a plate like this, it looks like coustant almost.
Speaker 4: I know it's savory exactly.
Speaker 2: You can see the classes of it the guests, you know,
Speaker 2: the size based on exactly people or how hungry you are,
Speaker 2: how hungry.
Speaker 6: They are.
Speaker 4: Here we go look at that simple but amazing cheese.
Speaker 4: Oh they like more or less? Yeah, me too. We've
Speaker 4: got to have more farmers exactly.
Speaker 5: You don't have too much.
Speaker 4: This just makes everything better, great goodness.
Speaker 2: Sometimes this is probably one of our most popular dishes
Speaker 2: that we have on the lifetime.
Speaker 4: Yeah, also with the sun, with the sun and a
Speaker 4: glass of wine, and a glass of wine.
Speaker 5: So would you like to read the recipe?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: Please?
Speaker 4: This recipe says it serves six. I grew up in
Speaker 4: a big family, so it's going to serve ten at least,
Speaker 4: so we're going to have some of these portions. It
Speaker 4: recommends a quilo and a half of asparagus. Let's change
Speaker 4: that to three just for fun. Leftovers are always nice.
Speaker 4: Two hundredgrams of parmesan you know double that it's four hundred,
Speaker 4: but everyone loves parmesan cheese. You know you never want
Speaker 4: to stop. So let's say five hundred freshly grated garlic
Speaker 4: as well, one clove of garlic peeled and crushed, of course,
Speaker 4: and then four hundred militers of I don't actually know
Speaker 4: how to pronounce this creme fine.
Speaker 5: Frame fresh crim.
Speaker 3: Fresh kind of sour cream that you get in France.
Speaker 5: Love nice.
Speaker 4: I had some before, but when I had this, so
Speaker 4: eight hundred meals for that, and then four large organic
Speaker 4: and of course free range egg yolks. We're not here
Speaker 4: for cage, sorry, guys. So your first app will be
Speaker 4: to use a medium sauce pan maybe large in this
Speaker 4: instance that will fit inside another larger sauce pan with
Speaker 4: enough room to fill with water. We're going to rub
Speaker 4: that crushed garlic around the surface of the smaller pan,
Speaker 4: get all those flavors in there, and add the cream
Speaker 4: and a nice amount of parmesan, maybe more than we suggested,
Speaker 4: and of course your egg yolks. Place the pan on
Speaker 4: top of the hot water and stirring gently until the
Speaker 4: sauce thickens. That should be about fifteen minutes, and of
Speaker 4: course salt and pepper. Let's season it. Well, snap off
Speaker 4: the ends of the asparagus and cook that in the
Speaker 4: boiling water for three to four minutes. Interestingly, when I
Speaker 4: had it was a bit aldente, which was really really nice,
Speaker 4: So maybe sitting a little bit below that three minutes,
Speaker 4: whatever takes your fancy, and then drain it, place in
Speaker 4: a warm bowl and pour the fondue over the asparagus.
Speaker 4: Maybe add a little bit of olive oil if you're
Speaker 4: feeling extra excited by that. Of course, the River Cafe
Speaker 4: olive oil is amazing, so that would be my preference,
Speaker 4: and serve with you guessed it even more grated parmesan there.
Speaker 3: It is beautiful great.
Speaker 5: Do you cook for yourself? Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Do you? Yeah? I cook so much. I think I
Speaker 4: travel so much right that when I'm home and when
Speaker 4: I'm back in Sydney, I really don't want to go
Speaker 4: out and eat out all the time or order in.
Speaker 4: I want to be alone or with my I live
Speaker 4: with housemates actually still I live with three boys, three
Speaker 4: guys in their twenties. It's very a new girl situation
Speaker 4: if you've seen that TV show. And one of my
Speaker 4: favorite things to do when I'm back is to cook
Speaker 4: something for them. So every Sunday night we do. I
Speaker 4: call it family dinner. We're not related, but by hearts
Speaker 4: we are.
Speaker 3: Something that I've been lockdown, sort of eased up. We
Speaker 3: were allowed to go out, but everybody was pretty much
Speaker 3: in their own homes. A friend of mine was making
Speaker 3: a movie actually say with Austin, but we've about lost
Speaker 3: a Minuteicot, and we started having Sunday night supper. So
Speaker 3: I would cook, they would kind of do some shopping,
Speaker 3: or we'd cook and just get together. And then we
Speaker 3: played a game of cards. And they were about eight
Speaker 3: of us, and we met every Sunday night for almost
Speaker 3: thirty well for thirty nine weeks now it just became
Speaker 3: very important as Sunday night dinner kind of end of
Speaker 3: the week, the beginning of the new week. Sundays are
Speaker 3: kind of grim. Is that what you What do you
Speaker 3: like about Sunday night suffers?
Speaker 4: That is spot on, and I think it emulates a
Speaker 4: family system that we when we get older, we don't have.
Speaker 4: But the way that I really saw it was you
Speaker 4: start your week off doing something for someone else. So
Speaker 4: it was a really beautiful way for me to express
Speaker 4: my love for these people and show them generosity by
Speaker 4: going and getting a leg of lamb or making Italian
Speaker 4: meatballs or lasagna, and really starting the week off having
Speaker 4: done something for someone else. And we also play cards,
Speaker 4: did you yeah you're gay? Okay? So ours is actually
Speaker 4: monopoly deal? So's it's a card version of monopoly.
Speaker 5: So maybe not as do you buy sell hope else?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, it's the only it's the only taste
Speaker 4: of property ownership I think I'm gonna get for a while.
Speaker 4: So it keeps me on.
Speaker 5: Maybe not? Or do you live with? What are the
Speaker 5: guys like?
Speaker 4: They're amazing? I really love them. One of them is
Speaker 4: an actor. One of them is in finance. One of
Speaker 4: them is in marketing. It's very different from what I do.
Speaker 4: Maybe Jack is the actor. He's actually moving to Paris soon.
Speaker 4: So the Sunday Dinners are sadly coming to an end
Speaker 4: in October. But it's also really it's nice, I think
Speaker 4: in some ways because it makes me feel quite maternal
Speaker 4: as well, and I think that's an instinct that I've
Speaker 4: always had, and I think that food and family are
Speaker 4: very much synonymous. So maybe it's because I always saw
Speaker 4: my mum doing this for me and for my dad
Speaker 4: and for my cousins and my aunts and my uncles,
Speaker 4: that I've really taken the reins from it. I've taken
Speaker 4: that from her, and it's it's really interesting when we
Speaker 4: think about psychology. Actually, everyone like I don't want to
Speaker 4: turn into my parents, I don't want to be like them,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I absolutely want to be like her.
Speaker 4: She has generosity running through her blood. She's a wonderful woman.
Speaker 3: I found that very touching when you said you want
Speaker 3: to be like your mother. That's every parent's dream and
Speaker 3: it certainly was mine as well. I think you can
Speaker 3: tell people who come from happy families where they loved
Speaker 3: and where they want to love, So tell me what
Speaker 3: it was like growing up in your house.
Speaker 4: It's interesting. My dad's from Queensland, so it's kind of rual.
Speaker 4: It's a bit rough in tumble sometimes. My mom's actually
Speaker 4: from Wisconsin, so I was American. She's American.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Had she end up in Australia.
Speaker 4: It's kind of actually a hard story.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Her parents got divorced and her dad kind of walked
Speaker 4: out of the picture. She hasn't spoken to him for
Speaker 4: a while, you know, she won't mind me saying that.
Speaker 4: And she moved with with my grandma and they moved
Speaker 4: to Australia, and it was really hard. I think when
Speaker 4: they first got here she was old enough to really
Speaker 4: have friends and to want to assimilate. She was around fourteen,
Speaker 4: and I think that's actually a really hard age to move.
Speaker 4: But it has made her a wonderful mother because she
Speaker 4: really understands the importance of belonging. And my dad grew
Speaker 4: up in a big family, so he understood that as well.
Speaker 5: And they met in Australia.
Speaker 4: They met in Australia. They met at a cricket game
Speaker 4: and my mom went up to him and was like,
Speaker 4: I think you're really cute and the rest is history.
Speaker 4: And they did long distance for a while. They have
Speaker 4: such a beautiful story. Then it's really nice being able
Speaker 4: to look at your parents and realize that they still
Speaker 4: really like each other and that they really get along.
Speaker 4: And every night I'll go home and they always share
Speaker 4: a glass of wine together. They cook for each other. Still,
Speaker 4: Like I said, food and love and family.
Speaker 5: Yeah, are you an only child?
Speaker 4: I'm not. I have two sisters.
Speaker 5: So well would meals be? Like, tell me about food
Speaker 5: in your house?
Speaker 4: Go back to So my mom was Actually she was
Speaker 4: a break I don't know. She worked full time, she
Speaker 4: traveled a lot. We didn't actually see her very much
Speaker 4: for a little while because she was, you know, trying
Speaker 4: to provide for the family. My dad was a stay
Speaker 4: at home dad. So what did she did. She's an
Speaker 4: economist and so she it's so different from what I do, right,
Speaker 4: And she talks about money all day. I talk about feelings.
Speaker 4: And she would be traveling, but she would always try
Speaker 4: and come back for at least two or three nights,
Speaker 4: and my dad would cook for us. And actually the
Speaker 4: meal that I most associate with my childhood is by
Speaker 4: Jamie Oliver. He has this tuna pasta dish. It was
Speaker 4: in his book Fifteen Minute Meals. It's tuna and it's
Speaker 4: got this amazing basil flavor and cinnamon and it's like
Speaker 4: you would never think that tuna and cinnamon would go well,
Speaker 4: but it's like delicious and it's my comfort meal now
Speaker 4: because we ate it so much. You know, my dad
Speaker 4: was really trying to look after three three young girls
Speaker 4: and my sisters. One of my sisters is an athlete,
Speaker 4: so there was also a lot of driving to practices
Speaker 4: and it's it's an Australian Sports Football so AFL, Australian
Speaker 4: Football League, so it's kind of like rugby. She's really tall,
Speaker 4: she's like she's like over six foot. She's tall, she's beautiful,
Speaker 4: she's so kind and yeah, so that's the mealie most
Speaker 4: associated that, or a tuna pasta bakes a lot of tune.
Speaker 5: It's simple with tuna, and then.
Speaker 4: For dessert, we would have berry cobbler, which is a classic,
Speaker 4: right everyone, When you think of cobbler, you think of
Speaker 4: warmth and cozy in childhood and what.
Speaker 5: Is verry cop can you describe it?
Speaker 4: So berry cobbler, it's kind of like I think it
Speaker 4: was like kind of a poor man's dish back in
Speaker 4: the day, because it's super simple to make. It's these
Speaker 4: berries that you cook in this like amazing sugary syrup
Speaker 4: and with butter, and then on top you put like
Speaker 4: egg and more butter and sugar and flour together and
Speaker 4: you mix it all up and then crumble it on
Speaker 4: so crumble.
Speaker 3: So you grew up with your dad and he would
Speaker 3: cook edward every night, a different kind of dinner.
Speaker 5: Did he did.
Speaker 3: He really spend time and making sure that everything was good.
Speaker 4: He did. He's from an Italian family, so I think
Speaker 4: it's like this generational thing. His mom used to put
Speaker 4: so much care into her meals, and he would do
Speaker 4: that for us.
Speaker 5: And when your mom cooked, what would she cook?
Speaker 4: She loves fresh food. We used to do this thing
Speaker 4: called snack plate. And it's what that would mean was
Speaker 4: we would go to the markets with her when she
Speaker 4: was back on Saturday or Sunday, the Queen Victoria Markets.
Speaker 4: If you're ever in Melbourne, it's amazing. You know, if
Speaker 4: you live there, you know all the tenders and you
Speaker 4: know everyone, and she would take us and we would
Speaker 4: all get to choose what snacks we would want on
Speaker 4: the snack plate. It's kind of like a checruderie board
Speaker 4: chacuderi boards before we knew what that was, and with
Speaker 4: very cheap deli meats, not prostudo. But we would and
Speaker 4: we would have carrots and she would always get these
Speaker 4: amazing cherry tomatoes and cucumber that she would slice and
Speaker 4: dips and it was very like Mediterranean and we would
Speaker 4: put it down on the table. And then there was
Speaker 4: always a portion for sweet foods and the one the
Speaker 4: sweet food that we'd always get was chocolate covered pretzels
Speaker 4: and they were like, they were amazing. She was She
Speaker 4: worked so hard, you know she, but she still wanted
Speaker 4: to when she had the time to provide and to
Speaker 4: do amazing things. And every Christmas she would She's the
Speaker 4: pillar of our family Christmases. Nothing would no one would
Speaker 4: eat without that woman like she's she's such a provider.
Speaker 5: So this was your growing up.
Speaker 3: You're growing up with this food, with your father cooking,
Speaker 3: your mother coming back from a business trip and cooking.
Speaker 3: What were your teenagers like? Were you quite a happy
Speaker 3: teenager or was it conflicted?
Speaker 4: I actually wasn't. I don't think I was very I
Speaker 4: think I was I was a bit of a strange child.
Speaker 4: I was a bit of a strange teenager. I was
Speaker 4: very I was very focused on academic success, and I
Speaker 4: went to a public school in inner city Melbourne, where
Speaker 4: it was the thing to be very different and to be,
Speaker 4: you know, drinking early and to be doing like rock
Speaker 4: and roll music and to be it was very like
Speaker 4: punk almost, And I was kind of I was a
Speaker 4: very anxious teenager, and I just wanted to do well
Speaker 4: in school and I wanted to go on to university.
Speaker 4: I wanted to spend time in nature and by myself,
Speaker 4: and I think that I was kind of lonely. I
Speaker 4: had had friends, but I think I've always wanted to
Speaker 4: examine things deeper in a way that can sometimes make
Speaker 4: people a bit uncomfortable, and especially when you're younger and
Speaker 4: talking about your feelings isn't really as popular as it
Speaker 4: is now. And so it actually meant that I left
Speaker 4: home really young. Wow, I just turned seventeen to go
Speaker 4: to university because where was it. I went to Canberra,
Speaker 4: so I'm in Australia. It's really uncommon to move away
Speaker 4: from your home city. But I think I was just like,
Speaker 4: I need to, I need to.
Speaker 5: How far is Canberra. From Melbourne, it's.
Speaker 4: Around an eight hour drive, so yeah, and it was.
Speaker 4: It wasn't in Australia, that's not that far, but in
Speaker 4: other places, you know, in Europe's that's really fast. So
Speaker 4: and I moved out of home and I think that's
Speaker 4: this is gonna sound weird, but I think that's where
Speaker 4: like I really came alive and I became a person
Speaker 4: rather than just someone who has memories and other people's
Speaker 4: thoughts about me.
Speaker 5: What made you kind of blossom in that way from
Speaker 5: your high school to college.
Speaker 4: I think it was like, I'm in this new place,
Speaker 4: no one knows who I am.
Speaker 5: You can make your own identity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it actually was. That was such a good
Speaker 4: question because it it was like I didn't actually need
Speaker 4: to make my own identity. It was like my identity
Speaker 4: was already there and I just let people see it.
Speaker 4: And I just met the best people I've ever met
Speaker 4: in my life. I'm still really really close with them,
Speaker 4: and they were just so intelligent. It was this shared
Speaker 4: value set. We'd all moved away from home in an
Speaker 4: environment where that's not common for a reason, and we
Speaker 4: moved into the shed and living We lived in this
Speaker 4: massive dorm at five hundred and fifty people and the
Speaker 4: kitchen actually it was self catered. Was the largest non industrial,
Speaker 4: non commercial kitchen in the Southern Hemisphere. Oh it stud
Speaker 4: for students.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did they have Chefso you were all just allowed
Speaker 3: to go in there and make your own food.
Speaker 4: Can you imagine what that was like?
Speaker 5: I can't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll give you one word, messy Yeah.
Speaker 5: Messy, messy.
Speaker 4: It was gross.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what would you do?
Speaker 3: Would you go in there is just clean up before
Speaker 3: you started, or would you just sort of how did
Speaker 3: you work in a kitchen like that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to clean up. Also, you'd have to
Speaker 4: lock away your stuff because everyone's everyone's poorly. Everyone wants
Speaker 4: you know, if you have low pack butter that was
Speaker 4: such like a luxury item that would go missing so quickly,
Speaker 4: or avocados, oh, don't even try it. And so we
Speaker 4: would come down and we would actually you'd have a
Speaker 4: little group. You never wanted to go alone because it
Speaker 4: was so intimidating. There's five hundred people and a kitchen
Speaker 4: and we're all eighteen, and we're all uncomfortable in ourselves,
Speaker 4: and you know, doing we feel embarrassed just by being alive.
Speaker 4: At that age, I think, and you would always text
Speaker 4: your friends and be like, okay, anyone want to eat
Speaker 4: and we'd come down. We would cook together, and there
Speaker 4: was the staple meals, right, pesto pasta of course, a
Speaker 4: stir fry naturally, and then always a frozen meal.
Speaker 5: Oh okay, I know that, sad okay.
Speaker 3: I never did that, And will you step what were
Speaker 3: you studying at the time?
Speaker 4: So I obviously studied psychology, but then little no fact,
Speaker 4: I also studied a Bachelor of Politics, economics and philosophy.
Speaker 4: So I wanted to be a politician.
Speaker 5: Did you Yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker 4: I was really invested in becoming the Minister for women
Speaker 4: at the time in Australia. Was a man who was
Speaker 4: the Minister for women doesn't make any sense. And I
Speaker 4: was like, I find that's so uncomfort. I want to
Speaker 4: change that. I want to work for defat, I want
Speaker 4: to change women's lives. I want to change people's lives.
Speaker 4: And then I think I slowly became someone else. And
Speaker 4: I always had this fascination with psychology.
Speaker 3: Because the psychology is really interesting in terms of what
Speaker 3: you're doing now. But that path through the psychology at
Speaker 3: at university.
Speaker 5: What was that? What did you learn?
Speaker 4: I learned so much? I was but I learned so much.
Speaker 4: But then at the time, I had stopped working in
Speaker 4: the restaurant and I started working in child mal treatment
Speaker 4: research because it paid really well. At first, I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is I have this background and I've learned all
Speaker 4: these things, and this job is going to pay really well.
Speaker 4: And then suddenly I was like, it doesn't matter if
Speaker 4: this doesn't pay well. This is like what I want
Speaker 4: to do. So I'd just done a One of the
Speaker 4: best courses I ever did was personality psychology and then
Speaker 4: also developmental psychology, and I think when we think about psychology,
Speaker 4: we about disordered thinking, we think about mental ill health.
Speaker 4: And this was about just being like, your average person
Speaker 4: is more interesting and nuanced and wonderful than the whole universe,
Speaker 4: like everything everyone has made so differently, and I took
Speaker 4: some of that experience. I started working for this study
Speaker 4: called the child More Treatment Study in Australia and it's
Speaker 4: like the first of its kind to ever track the
Speaker 4: outcomes from people who have experienced neglect or abuse into adulthood.
Speaker 4: And I was doing qualitative research for that. So I
Speaker 4: was talking to people and it was hard, but I
Speaker 4: was like, this is what I want to do, and
Speaker 4: I know that if I do something else, I won't
Speaker 4: be able to do that. Sorry, I know this isn't it.
Speaker 3: It's food, no, no, no, but it's the same. And also
Speaker 3: when you started, you started out by saying that you
Speaker 3: cooked Sunday night dinners to make people, and there was
Speaker 3: a whole connection. It wasn't just to feed your friends
Speaker 3: or to have a great day shopping and cooking. There
Speaker 3: was a definite connection with people and making them feel loved,
Speaker 3: making them feel a memory of their family, making them
Speaker 3: feel ready for the week, making them feel making them
Speaker 3: feel understood and that you cared about them. And I
Speaker 3: think that this all seems to be tied in. You know,
Speaker 3: that's what you're doing.
Speaker 4: I always wanted to practice. I was like, I'm going
Speaker 4: to go back to practicing. I'm going to become a psychologist.
Speaker 4: And that was the trajectory I was on. And then
Speaker 4: I became a therapist for people in an entirely new
Speaker 4: way that I think only this generation and this like
Speaker 4: the last few decades have allowed like suddenly it's almost
Speaker 4: so much more efficient. Sometimes I say to people like
Speaker 4: obviously take my advice with a grain of salt. I
Speaker 4: don't know you, you don't know me. We don't have
Speaker 4: this bond. I don't know, we don't have a relationship.
Speaker 4: But I think the beauty of being able to immerse
Speaker 4: myself in the theory and then also to do a
Speaker 4: lot of that work children and with people who experienced
Speaker 4: domestic violence as well, was that I'm able to make
Speaker 4: all of that knowledge so much more accessible with people
Speaker 4: who need it without it being wrapped up in all
Speaker 4: this academic jargon. So I don't know, maybe I'll go
Speaker 4: back and finish it up. I'm thinking about doing a
Speaker 4: pH d. That would be so much fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah why not? Yeah? Honestly, from one podcast which to another.
Speaker 3: If we've heard the story of your university child days,
Speaker 3: tell me how.
Speaker 5: Did it happen? How did you decide? Is it true
Speaker 5: that it started in the back of a car?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's true.
Speaker 4: I so, actually it started. I went to a breakup
Speaker 4: and it was when COVID was happening, and it was
Speaker 4: I've been dating him for almost just over two years.
Speaker 4: It was my first love, and I thought we were
Speaker 4: going to get married, and it just like devastated me.
Speaker 4: And then suddenly everything was locked down and all the
Speaker 4: things that you normally do to heal after a hurt,
Speaker 4: you know, you go to the gym, you go traveling,
Speaker 4: you go out with your friends to get your friends,
Speaker 4: you tell your friends everything, they come over, you get drunk,
Speaker 4: everyone's they cry with you. Suddenly I couldn't do that,
Speaker 4: and I just one day had this idea. I have
Speaker 4: this theory that sometimes there's something in the world that
Speaker 4: just places an idea in your brain and you just
Speaker 4: have to grab it, like you just It's like a gift.
Speaker 4: Everyone gets an idea that could be the choice of
Speaker 4: their life at some point, but you have to be
Speaker 4: like this is I'm going to take this now and
Speaker 4: it's mine and I'm going to give it everything. I'm
Speaker 4: going to like birth this idea, and that just kind
Speaker 4: of happened. I was like one day I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: the psychology of your twenties. I wonder what that would
Speaker 4: be like, Oh my goodness. And then I called my
Speaker 4: best friend and I was like, what do you think
Speaker 4: about like if I started a podcast? And she was like,
Speaker 4: that would be such a great outlet for you. I
Speaker 4: think she was sick of listening to me have the
Speaker 4: conversations I now have on the show with her, and
Speaker 4: so I was like, let's do this, and just googled,
Speaker 4: like where can I how to start a podcast? I
Speaker 4: literally went on wiki how.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I understand that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I never ever thought that it would be what it became.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to do it. I always say to
Speaker 4: people I would have kept doing it even if no
Speaker 4: one listened.
Speaker 5: Where did the idea of doing it in the back
Speaker 5: of your car come from?
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot the back of the car. Well.
Speaker 4: I lived in a house with six seven people and
Speaker 4: we had very thin walls, so the only place I
Speaker 4: had that was private was my super Forester two thousand
Speaker 4: and seven.
Speaker 5: Wh So you're still a university.
Speaker 4: I'm still a university.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I started it when in my final year and I
Speaker 4: sat in the back of my car with my phone
Speaker 4: and I was like, today we're going to talk about
Speaker 4: imposter syndrome, and you know this is I'm starting this podcast.
Speaker 4: And I'd written a script as well, and I printed
Speaker 4: it out at the One of my housemates has a printer,
Speaker 4: and I sat there with my phone in one hand
Speaker 4: recording it. And then the thing in the other hand,
Speaker 4: and I had the overhead light on and only one
Speaker 4: of them works, and just just and also sorry, this
Speaker 4: is so funny. My car's very old and I don't
Speaker 4: take good care of it, so you can actually you
Speaker 4: lock yourself in like all the time, and the keys
Speaker 4: don't unlock it, so you have to roll down the
Speaker 4: window and get out then. And so I actually think
Speaker 4: that happened.
Speaker 5: In my car. Did you have guests on your show
Speaker 5: or did you just do it by yourself?
Speaker 4: And I did have guests, but they were my friends.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting.
Speaker 5: I look like, come and sit in the car with you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they come and sit in the car, or I
Speaker 4: would go we would do it at their house, like
Speaker 4: I remember one of my best friend's Phoebe. Oh gosh,
Speaker 4: she's amazing, And we sat on the ground in her
Speaker 4: kitchen or like lounge room, and we had like a
Speaker 4: little stool in front of us, and we had like
Speaker 4: we were just getting drunk. And we recorded an episode
Speaker 4: and it's still up.
Speaker 5: Which one is it?
Speaker 4: Let's get friendly with Phoebe and you just talked about
Speaker 4: and I feel they've all given me permission now, you know,
Speaker 4: when we recorded these I didn't think that there was
Speaker 4: going to be millions of people listening to them. So
Speaker 4: we're telling them about where we went to primary school,
Speaker 4: We're telling them about our first pets, name all the
Speaker 4: questions that your bank asked you for your security code.
Speaker 4: And now I'm like, oh shit, like yeah. And then
Speaker 4: only at the start of this year did I really
Speaker 4: start getting like guests on that I maybe hadn't met before,
Speaker 4: have only met a couple of times, people that I've
Speaker 4: known for six seven years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, alist year's success became more evident. Were you able
Speaker 3: to eat more kind the food that you wanted to eat?
Speaker 3: We were able to afford better food.
Speaker 4: Can I tell you a secret? So the podcast took
Speaker 4: a while to take off, so I was working a
Speaker 4: nine to five job, but I remember the first time
Speaker 4: I ever made like a cent from the podcast. I
Speaker 4: went to this restaurant in Sydney called Toddi's. Everyone knows
Speaker 4: that it's so amazing. And I went to Totti's and
Speaker 4: I ordered a bread, I ordered a burrata, I ordered
Speaker 4: these tomatoes, and I ordered a chocolate torta torte. Remember that, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I can remember it because it's my favorite meal. It's
Speaker 4: my like, if I'm going to go and spend money
Speaker 4: on a meal in Sydney where I am, I'm going
Speaker 4: to Toddies they know me now and a Limon Tello spirits.
Speaker 4: I don't most people don't like them, but I think
Speaker 4: they're great.
Speaker 3: Did you say that people like you or many people
Speaker 3: that I've talked to measure in a way there's success
Speaker 3: through the ability to eat more interesting food.
Speaker 4: That's so true, And I think also I still look
Speaker 4: at the like now I have a lot more financial freedom, obviously,
Speaker 4: but I still find it weird sometimes to spend money
Speaker 4: on nice things like food. But I always think, like
Speaker 4: this is every night I spend and have a good meal,
Speaker 4: it's always the best story ever, like the the other
Speaker 4: night when I came in and ate here. Those experiences
Speaker 4: are so important to me now and it's kind of
Speaker 4: a reminder to me that I don't need to stress
Speaker 4: as much as I did when I was really coming
Speaker 4: up right, and that if I want to enjoy good
Speaker 4: food and food, like you said, such a mark of
Speaker 4: success and a mark of I think where you're at
Speaker 4: in your life, I can do that. But interestingly, I
Speaker 4: still eat some of the same foods anyhow, like it's
Speaker 4: always Italian, It's always Italian, always pasta.
Speaker 3: And all the episodes that you've done about dating and
Speaker 3: pasture syndrome, did people opened up to you about food?
Speaker 5: Did food ever come into their conversation?
Speaker 4: Yeah? And it's sad because when we talk about psychology
Speaker 4: and food, it's often around eating disorders and body dysmorphia
Speaker 4: and diet culture. So I remember this episode I did
Speaker 4: called the Psychology of Diet Culture, how to Embrace Our Body,
Speaker 4: breaking down exactly why our relationship with food these days
Speaker 4: has become so skewed. You know, it's no longer about
Speaker 4: out fueling your body, It's no longer about community and
Speaker 4: something to be shared. I think about my little sisters
Speaker 4: and oh my god, I just think about I would
Speaker 4: never want them to restrict food or not see it
Speaker 4: as this beautiful thing. It genuinely makes me really upset
Speaker 4: to think about it, because I just think food is
Speaker 4: not something that needs to have power over you, and
Speaker 4: it should be something that liberates you and makes you
Speaker 4: feel happy and it makes you feel good emotions. But
Speaker 4: that people open up to me a lot about their
Speaker 4: relationship with food.
Speaker 3: With food and do you think that it's much more
Speaker 3: women clearly that have that issue, because we're all brought
Speaker 3: up to fit into the right size or to look
Speaker 3: a certain shape. Do you think it's changing though. Do
Speaker 3: you think amongst your friends who are in their twenties
Speaker 3: are thinking differently about food.
Speaker 4: I think it is mostly women. Obviously, men also experience
Speaker 4: this as well, and it can be hard no matter
Speaker 4: who you are. But I think the older you get
Speaker 4: as well, the more you gain an identity where you
Speaker 4: realize that what you look like is not the most
Speaker 4: important thing about you. Your body is just a vessel
Speaker 4: for something deeper, for your soul, for your thoughts. And
Speaker 4: it was like this weird thing I noticed. I worried
Speaker 4: about that a lot when I was younger. I think
Speaker 4: there were times I had a very unhealthy relationship with food,
Speaker 4: and I like turned twenty three and I was like, wow,
Speaker 4: I suddenly don't care about this anymore. Like it's like
Speaker 4: my frontallope like clicked into gear, and I was like,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna eat so much amazing food because life is
Speaker 4: short and I love myself and I love my body
Speaker 4: and what it does for me, and if my body
Speaker 4: can do what I want it to do, of course
Speaker 4: I'm going to reward it with some amazing asparagus or
Speaker 4: the chocolate water from Tony's.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what is your food day?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: What is your breakfast, lunch, and dinner or.
Speaker 4: So it changes because I'm traveling so much, but I
Speaker 4: think about the best food di I can give you
Speaker 4: is when I'm at my parents' house and what I
Speaker 4: eat there so I always wake up. I love avocado toast.
Speaker 4: It's just like it hits the spot every time. And
Speaker 4: there's this thing called Meredith's goats Feta cheese. Do you
Speaker 4: have that?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 4: I don't think I can send it to you because
Speaker 4: I've been breaking so many laws, but I'll come when
Speaker 4: you're in Australia. I'm gonna buy you a massive jar
Speaker 4: and you're gonna smuggle it back because it will change
Speaker 4: your life. It is the most amazing cheese and you
Speaker 4: sprinkle it over and it's the cheese is in this
Speaker 4: olive oil and this massive glass jar and you drizzle
Speaker 4: the oil. And I love having that for breakfast. Anytime
Speaker 4: I come home. My mom always has one of the
Speaker 4: sage for me. Yeah, and then lunch, I'm like not
Speaker 4: a very picky eater, so whatever is up, I will
Speaker 4: have some of that. But I love like a chicken salad,
Speaker 4: I love a burrito. I snack a lot as well.
Speaker 4: I love it. I love snacking. I love a KB butcher,
Speaker 4: I love a juice moment, and like an almond croissant
Speaker 4: in the afternoon. Look, I'm gonna be honest. I'm from Australia.
Speaker 4: We drink a lot. So yeah, it's five o'clock. There's
Speaker 4: an apparl in my hand or children, you know, at
Speaker 4: the moment because it's summer. And then for dinner, I
Speaker 4: what have I been cooking recently? Actually, like my grot
Speaker 4: meal is actually is like a peppered steak and then
Speaker 4: and then I slice it up with a pewter bread
Speaker 4: like a fresh peter bread bread, and then tatsiki garlic
Speaker 4: dip hommus and then tomato and be true and like spinach.
Speaker 4: And because I live with three boys, but obviously we
Speaker 4: have different schedules, so I always like bog By and
Speaker 4: then I'll just eat that for the week because it's
Speaker 4: so much simple. But that's my really go to at
Speaker 4: the moment.
Speaker 3: And can I ask you your podcast seemed to have
Speaker 3: taken you into the realm of celebrity. You're talking about
Speaker 3: yesterday with your fans and all these fans came to
Speaker 3: your podcast.
Speaker 5: What is that like and how did that happen?
Speaker 4: It's I don't know how it happened. I think I
Speaker 4: really don't know. I think people just they're looking for
Speaker 4: someone who's relatable, and I think that's what I am. Like,
Speaker 4: you heard my whole story, like I had no real
Speaker 4: social media presence before this, and like an Instagram with
Speaker 4: like five hundred followers, my friends, my family, and I
Speaker 4: think that that really resonates with some people because sometimes
Speaker 4: when you hear someone who is an established celebrity talking
Speaker 4: about things, you're like, well, how do you know what
Speaker 4: I'm going through? How do you know what it's like
Speaker 4: to be ghosted? How do you know what it's like
Speaker 4: to have depressive episodes? And how do you know what
Speaker 4: it's like to struggle with money. It's like, I know
Speaker 4: all those things because that was me. It's still me,
Speaker 4: but you know, I'm in that decade, I'm in that
Speaker 4: part of my life. And then we had this one
Speaker 4: episode on Loneliness that I actually filmed when I just
Speaker 4: moved to Sydney, which where I live now, after leaving Canberra,
Speaker 4: and I was sitting in my car. And by that stage,
Speaker 4: I'd stopped recording in my car and I had just
Speaker 4: gotten back from something. I was so lonely, and I
Speaker 4: just sat down with my phone and I was like,
Speaker 4: I'm feeling really lonely, and I know those other people
Speaker 4: feeling like this, This is why I'm feeling lonely. This
Speaker 4: is the psychology that I know. I'm going to like
Speaker 4: almost self therapize here. And it just like went viral everyone.
Speaker 4: It was like no one had talked about that before,
Speaker 4: and it was so funny, you know, humble beginnings back
Speaker 4: in the car again. Yeah, that's the one that really
Speaker 4: changed my life.
Speaker 5: A loneliness is huge.
Speaker 3: We did an interview with Brian Chesky, who started Airbnb,
Speaker 3: and he as a kind of really interesting person, wanted
Speaker 3: to do something that invested in people, and he got
Speaker 3: in touch with the Surgeon General under Obama and said,
Speaker 3: you know, take just go away. Here's your money, just
Speaker 3: go away for six months or whatever and study anything
Speaker 3: you want to and see what's going on in this country,
Speaker 3: what's going on young people, what's going on with the
Speaker 3: people stay in theirbnb? Is what can we do? And
Speaker 3: he came back after months and months of research and
Speaker 3: looking at data and everything, and he said, there is
Speaker 3: one problem in this country. It's not depression, it's not anxiety,
Speaker 3: it's not economic fears.
Speaker 5: It's loneliness. You know.
Speaker 3: When you said that, probably people really related to that.
Speaker 3: And people you know, are lonely with food with the
Speaker 3: people who are lonely, and they cook people. You know,
Speaker 3: in terms of my world, you see people coming into
Speaker 3: a restaurant with a table of six or eight or ten,
Speaker 3: or you see people coming in by themselves.
Speaker 5: And he also said that.
Speaker 3: Loneliness has nothing to do with being alone. You know
Speaker 3: that you can be in a marriage, you can be
Speaker 3: a father, you can be a mother, you can be
Speaker 3: cooking for twenty But it's a big thing going on,
Speaker 3: you know, which we're seeking to understand.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I love that. I always say that on
Speaker 4: my show. I say that loneliness isn't your enemy, that
Speaker 4: you should embrace solitude. It's only natural. But also you
Speaker 4: could be surrounded by people and you could. It's just
Speaker 4: an emotional state. It's it's nothing more. It's an emotional
Speaker 4: state and you can get through it. So food is
Speaker 4: a great remedy, isn't it. Well, when you do feel
Speaker 4: that way about your emotional state? You might feel lonely,
Speaker 4: you might feel sad, you might feel missing someone.
Speaker 5: Is there something that you would turn to?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually know my answer straight away. There's this
Speaker 4: soup that my mum used to make when I was
Speaker 4: when I was sick. It's a lentil and silver beats
Speaker 4: silver beet soup with onion and chicken stock. I always
Speaker 4: eat that when I'm feeling down, and especially in winter.
Speaker 4: And then for dessert, I would be making that crumble
Speaker 4: that cobbler. It's so easy, it's cheap. I would I've
Speaker 4: made it so many times. And interesting you asked me that,
Speaker 4: because when the show first became really big, it was
Speaker 4: actually really hard for me. I was really over and
Speaker 4: actually quite sad for whatever reason. Like I said, it's
Speaker 4: just an emotional state, and that's what.
Speaker 5: I cooked good.
Speaker 4: So there you go.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope you don't need to have comfort food,
Speaker 3: but if you do, they do sound very delicious. Yeah,
Speaker 3: then thank you so much for coming. I was love
Speaker 3: being with you. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5: Can I can?
Speaker 4: I tell you The other night when we had dinner,
Speaker 4: I said to my dad when I got home, I
Speaker 4: have I think I have a weird relationship with success.
Speaker 4: I'm always waiting for someone to take it away, waiting
Speaker 4: for my luck to run out. And I said to
Speaker 4: him after the dinner that I had here, if this
Speaker 4: is like the best thing that happens, if this is
Speaker 4: like the best that it gets, I'm totally happy with that.
Speaker 4: It was such a great meal.
Speaker 5: It's going to have lots and lots of great meals.
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