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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about the nineteen sixty one

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Speaker 3: horror fantasy romance Night Tide, written and directed by Curtis Harrington,

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Speaker 3: starring Dennis Hopper and Linda Lawson. So this movie had

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Speaker 3: been on my list for a while. I think I

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Speaker 3: added it to the list after we talked about Curtis

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Speaker 3: Harrington in our episode on Queen of Blood, a later

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Speaker 3: movie by Herrington from nineteen sixty six. If you don't

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Speaker 3: remember that episode, Queen of Blood was the Roger Corman

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Speaker 3: financed sci fi horror movie in which a bunch of

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Speaker 3: astronauts rescue an alien emissary who is shipwrecked on the

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Speaker 3: mark shin moon Phobos. But then while they're on the

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Speaker 3: way back to Earth, it turns out, uh oh, she's

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Speaker 3: a vampire and she wants to drink all their blood.

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Speaker 3: One of the members of the crew in that movie,

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Speaker 3: not the main member of the crew, kind of a

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Speaker 3: secondary character, is played by Dennis Hopper, which is gonna

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Speaker 3: be a funny connection to this movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe John Saxon might have been the lead

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Speaker 2: in that one, and Basil Rathbone was in it as well.

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Speaker 3: Basil Rathbone playing one of those stay in one room

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Speaker 3: and read some lines. But yeah, John Saxon is on

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Speaker 3: the spaceship. I think Dennis Hopper gets his blood drank.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, but Queen of Blood was notable for being

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Speaker 3: like half original footage and half footage from a couple

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Speaker 3: of pre existing Soviet Soviet science fiction movies, mostly like

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Speaker 3: special effects shots from these movies had been bought And

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Speaker 3: then I think Roger Korman's like, you know, let's we

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Speaker 3: already owned the rights to this, let's make another movie

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Speaker 3: out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but in the end, far better film than it

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Speaker 2: had any right to be given those constraints.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I think it helps that those special effects

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Speaker 3: shot shots that they bought in actually do look very good,

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Speaker 3: like very artful, you know, kind of beautiful, pleasing special

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Speaker 3: effects shots. But anyway, the funny thing about that is,

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Speaker 3: according to Curtis Harrington, Corman offered to put up the

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Speaker 3: financing for Queen of Blood because he was impressed with

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Speaker 3: Night Tide, the movie that we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about today. Night Tide had been Harrington's first feature film,

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Speaker 3: so especially once we start talking about this movie, it's

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Speaker 3: gonna be really funny to think about, like this kind

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Speaker 3: of quiet, subtle art film leading to the opportunities including

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Speaker 3: Queen of Blood. So what kind of movie is Night Tide?

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Speaker 3: A lot of reviewers have had trouble placing it in

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Speaker 3: a genre. The main thrust of the story is a

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Speaker 3: romance between the characters played by Dennis Hopper and Linda Lawson,

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Speaker 3: but this movie also has elements of horror, element of thriller,

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Speaker 3: definitely of fantasy and mystery. Personally, I would say that

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Speaker 3: it's an eerie, supernatural romance, but of course you've got

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Speaker 3: these these parts that feel like film noir, parts that

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Speaker 3: feel like full corror. I'd say, yeah. Sometimes you could

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Speaker 3: just say it's an art house film. I think that's

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Speaker 3: fair because it's got these scenes that have dangling images

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Speaker 3: from out of a dream. It's very popular in that

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Speaker 3: mid century, you know, art film genre. I'm thinking of

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Speaker 3: the empty rocking chair and the wind and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and then other parts of this movie just feel like

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Speaker 3: beach blanket bingo. You know, there's kind of a beach

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Speaker 3: party atmosphere to the happier romance scenes that I like.

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Speaker 3: I like the contrast there when things get really spooky

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Speaker 3: and Linda Lawson starts talking about hearing the moon talking

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Speaker 3: to her, but they've like just been talking about putting

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Speaker 3: the suntan lotion on. And then also, it's sort of

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Speaker 3: like a beat coffee house movie, especially in a few

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Speaker 3: scenes early on. And it's a cycle logical murder thriller,

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Speaker 3: like a Hitchcock movie. So there's just a whole lot

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, number of Once you list them out, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like this is going to be they're going to

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Speaker 2: be experiencing whiplash, but everything proceeds at a pace and

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Speaker 2: at a rate that feels very natural.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. So I'll go ahead and do a quick

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Speaker 3: synopsis to orient Us at Night. Tide is the story

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Speaker 3: of a young Navy recruit named Johnny who falls in

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Speaker 3: love with a woman named Mora who works on the

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Speaker 3: Santa Monica peer in California playing a mermaid at a

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Speaker 3: carnival attraction, and at first they have a blissful romance,

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Speaker 3: but things start to become strange when Johnny notices that

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Speaker 3: Mora is being followed everywhere by an older woman with

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Speaker 3: a witch like presence who speaks to her in a

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Speaker 3: foreign language. And Mora seems haunted by the moon and

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Speaker 3: feels the effects of the tide on her body and

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Speaker 3: dreams that the ocean is calling to her. And then

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Speaker 3: on on top of all this, Johnny starts to hear

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Speaker 3: rumors about Mora's last two boyfriends, who both died under

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Speaker 3: weird circumstances. So a mystery comes into focus, and the

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Speaker 3: question is does Mora have a secret or could maybe

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Speaker 3: she and Johnny both be casualties of some kind of

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Speaker 3: conspiracy by the sea. So I will note that in

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Speaker 3: this episode, as usual, we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 3: the ending of the film, and this movie definitely has

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Speaker 3: some big surprises in it, So if you want to

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Speaker 3: hop out go watch the movie before we ruin any

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Speaker 3: of the plot surprises, you should probably go for that.

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Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I'll go ahead and mention where you can

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Speaker 2: find it. Then there's a really nice indicator Blu ray

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Speaker 2: edition of the film if you're going for physical media,

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Speaker 2: and this features a four K restoration and a special

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Speaker 2: treat that this makes me wish I had watched it

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Speaker 2: in this format. A nineteen ninety eight audio commentary that

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Speaker 2: features both director Curtis Harrington and starre Dennis Hopper. I

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Speaker 2: believe there was. Yeah, Yeah, it's supposed to be really good.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them are just just talking about the

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Speaker 2: making of the film and pointing out all sorts of little,

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Speaker 2: little curious facts about what you're seeing. But I believe yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I believe there was also a Quino Lurber release

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Speaker 2: as well. You can also find this one on digital

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Speaker 2: easy to find in that format. I will point out, however,

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Speaker 2: I rented it digitally, and only after i'd already you know,

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Speaker 2: made the purchase for the rental, that I realized it

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Speaker 2: was colorized. And as I've mentioned before, I'm not one

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Speaker 2: hundred opposed to colorized versions of films. With certain films,

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Speaker 2: it can. It can kind of work, you know, your

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Speaker 2: sort of sci fi films. Sometimes I don't universally hate it,

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Speaker 2: but Nighttide demands to be seen in its original black

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Speaker 2: and white. I ended up having to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to set my smart TV to grayscale, which is not easy.

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Speaker 2: Back in the old days, it was just a knob,

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Speaker 2: you know, and your old televisions. Nowadays you have to

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Speaker 2: go into a whole bunch of sub menus. But once

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Speaker 2: I converted it to gray scale, I was able to

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Speaker 2: watch it h and you know, I believe as it

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Speaker 2: was intended. But you don't want to have to go

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Speaker 2: through all that. Get it in black and white if

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Speaker 2: you can, Otherwise you're gonna have to do a workaround.

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Speaker 3: I would recommend watching it in black and white. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to ruin your enjoyment for the movies where

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Speaker 3: you like it. But I'm generally not a fan of colorization.

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Speaker 3: I would say, specially in this case, I would not

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Speaker 3: recommend that.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think there was some film we watched

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Speaker 2: for Weird House and I ended up not minding it,

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Speaker 2: but I can't remember. It's probably more of an exception

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Speaker 2: to the rule than anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, might as well note here that the title of

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Speaker 3: the movie Night Tide is a quote from the poem

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Speaker 3: Annabel Lee by Edgar Allan Poe. This is a poem

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Speaker 3: about the death of a woman beloved by the poet,

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Speaker 3: which takes place in a kingdom by the sea, so

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Speaker 3: you can see the relevance to this story. But the

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Speaker 3: last stanza of annabel Lee goes as follows, for the

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Speaker 3: moon never beams without bringing me dreams of beautiful annabel Lee,

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Speaker 3: and the stars never rise. But I feel the bright

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Speaker 3: eyes of the beautiful Annabelle Lee. And so all the

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Speaker 3: night Tide, I lie down by the side of my darling,

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Speaker 3: my darling, my life, and my bride in her sepulcher,

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Speaker 3: there by the sea, in her tomb, by the sounding sea.

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Speaker 2: Very nice, very nice. There's the title right there. Now.

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Speaker 3: I just had the thought, as a literary illusion, does

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Speaker 3: that give away too much about the ending of the movie?

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Speaker 3: What's your feeling about that? Rob? Should you make allusions

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Speaker 3: to other works of literature if they have the same

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Speaker 3: ending as the story that you're going to tell?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Why not? Because the audience never knows if you're

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Speaker 2: going to stick to it or subvert it, So why not?

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Speaker 3: I guess you're right. And it's probably obscure enough a

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Speaker 3: reference to Annibal Lee that probably nobody's going like, oh,

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Speaker 3: night Tide, that's that agg Allan Poe poem. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's like two words, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now a note about expectations here. Nighttide is not a

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Speaker 2: monster movie, and I think some folks have had maybe

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Speaker 2: disappointment with this based on some online reviews, were looking

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Speaker 2: at where people went into it, maybe wanting something a

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Speaker 2: little camp here, a little more B movie, you know,

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Speaker 2: And Yeah, it's just not the case, as we've been saying.

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Speaker 2: Think of it more of it as an avant garde

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Speaker 2: noir contemplation on loneliness and desire. Likewise, we should point

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Speaker 2: out that the homo erotic and gay subtext is something

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Speaker 2: that the folks have often noted about this film, and

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Speaker 2: that too is also subtle and doesn't tackle anything directly

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Speaker 2: or overtly, but very much a part of the sort

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Speaker 2: of like commentary world of this film thing. A lot

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Speaker 2: of has been written about this, as we'll discuss. Curtis

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Speaker 2: Harrington was himself an openly gay director, and in this

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Speaker 2: film is noted for some of that subtext. And given

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Speaker 2: that we're here at the tail end of Pride Month,

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Speaker 2: seemed like a perfect time to dive into another one

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Speaker 2: of his films.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that the gay subtext that is often

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Speaker 3: read into this movie is really interesting because I see

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Speaker 3: it applied not just to one character like I think

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Speaker 3: sometimes critics talk about elements of disappearing with reference to

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Speaker 3: the protagonist Johnny you know, played by Dennis Hopper, but

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Speaker 3: also applied to the character Mora played by Linda Lawson,

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Speaker 3: for example, questions about whether to some extent is the

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Speaker 3: question of her belonging to the people of the Sea,

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Speaker 3: having this kind of like unconfirmed or secret relationship with

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Speaker 3: the Sirens or the mermaids, the people of the Sea,

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Speaker 3: having something to do with like being in the closet

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Speaker 3: or being being sort of having an identity that like

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Speaker 3: can't be fully realized among the people you walk about

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Speaker 3: to day to day.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, like what happens to that, to her nature,

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Speaker 2: to her identity here in this world where she can't

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Speaker 2: be who and what she is. So it's gonna be

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be fun to talk about these aspects of

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Speaker 2: the film. Yeah, some quick stats. This is, of course,

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Speaker 2: is our second Harrington film, and it's going to be

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Speaker 2: our fourth film to feature Dennis Hopper, following episodes on

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Speaker 2: ninety three Super Mario Brothers, Queen of Blood and Head.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Dennis Hopper had something to do with Head totally.

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Speaker 2: He was in the I wasn't on that episode, but

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Speaker 2: he's in the credits. He at least pops up somewhere

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Speaker 2: in there.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I forget what he had to do with head,

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Speaker 3: but that makes sense, you know, the sixties freak out guy.

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Speaker 3: Though this is a very pre sixties freak out Dennis

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Speaker 3: Hopper we're going to get in this movie. I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about that extensively when we get into him

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Speaker 3: in the connection section. But this is not your average

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Speaker 3: Dennis Hopper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, when I think Dennis Hopper, I think Super

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Speaker 3: Mario Brothers, Dennis Hopper, King Koopa guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. People often think about that. They think about Blue Velvet,

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Speaker 2: they think about Speed or water World or I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think another major touchstone that's earlier than all of

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Speaker 2: those examples is of course Apocalypse. Now, yeah, where he

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Speaker 2: plays the photojournalist. I'm an American, that character totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, we'll talk about that in a bit.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's get into the folks behind this film.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit more. First of all about

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Speaker 2: Curtis Harrington, the director, the writer. He lived nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: six through two thousand and seven. Harrington was obviously a

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Speaker 2: big Edgar Allan Poe fan, so it's fitting that his

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Speaker 2: first film was a nineteen forty two short based on

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Speaker 2: the Fall of the House of Usher. It was the

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Speaker 2: first of a string of short films that also included

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Speaker 2: fifty six Is the Wormwood Star, and then Nighttide was

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Speaker 2: his first feature film independently produced with at least some

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Speaker 2: amount of help and connection making from Roger Korman. As such,

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Speaker 2: he followed it up with a Roger Corman produced though

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Speaker 2: uncredited in that regard film sixty five, Voyage to the

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Speaker 2: Prehistoric Planet, followed by Queen of Blood. I haven't seen

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Speaker 2: Voyage to the Prehistoric Planet, so I can't comment on

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, me neither, don't know anything about it, but it

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Speaker 3: seems fitting with this string of movies that Harrington started

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Speaker 3: doing after Night Tide in the sixties, where he's essentially

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Speaker 3: trying to get a more mainstream movie making career. He's

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Speaker 3: breaking out of the art house film world, which he

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Speaker 3: occupied in the fifties and still somewhat you could say

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Speaker 3: somewhat occupied in the era of Night Tide. Night Tide

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Speaker 3: is kind of a bridge he's making, sort of still

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Speaker 3: an art movie, but it has some mainstream narrative appeal,

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Speaker 3: and then eventually he's going to break through into just

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Speaker 3: like I'm doing science fiction movies. I'm making money in

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Speaker 3: the industry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's going to be be interesting

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Speaker 2: to compare him to him to some other contemporary figures.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into it in a bed here. But after Night

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Speaker 2: Tide he shot sixty seven's Games, a thriller with James Kahn,

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Speaker 2: then the nineteen seventy film How Awful About Alan starring

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Speaker 2: Anthony Perkins. Seventy one's What's the Matter with Helen? That's

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Speaker 2: with Debbie Reynolds and Shelley Winters. Seventy two's Whoever Slew

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Speaker 2: Anti Rue? That's with Shelley Winters, Sir Ralph Richardson, and

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Speaker 2: Michael Gothard is in that as well. I can't I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen it, so I can't tell you if he's

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Speaker 2: wearing cool sunglasses in that, but I assume that he is,

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Speaker 2: or glasses some sort of cool eye wear. Seems to

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Speaker 2: frequently come with a Gothard performance.

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Speaker 3: What was the name of the Michael Gothard movie we

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Speaker 3: did on the show?

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Speaker 2: Oh it was Scream Screen again? Yes, yeah, ok, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And there may have been another one he popped up

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Speaker 2: in as well, but memorable screen presence for sure. Let's

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Speaker 2: see Harrington also directed seventy three's The Killing Kind with

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Speaker 2: the Sue Bernard, a faster Pussycat, Kill Kill. He also

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Speaker 2: did the seventy three TV movie The Cat Creature, the

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Speaker 2: seventy four TV movie Killer Bees, the seventy five TV

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Speaker 2: movie The Dead Don't Die with George Hamilton, seventy seven's

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Speaker 2: Ruby with Piper Laurie, the seventy eight TV movie Devil

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Speaker 2: Dog the Hound of Well, that's with the Richard Krenna,

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Speaker 2: and also Martin Beswick, who was in another movie we

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Speaker 2: were considering for this week, and that movie is not

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Speaker 2: this movie, Devil Dog the Hound of Hell. Not to

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Speaker 2: be confused with Zoltan Hound of Dracula, different, different evil

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Speaker 2: dog movie.

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Speaker 3: Is that the same as the movie Dracula's Dog or

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Speaker 3: a different.

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Speaker 2: Movie that is Dracula's Dog? Yes, okay, okay. For folks

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Speaker 2: who thought that Zoltan Hound of Dracula was too confusing,

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Speaker 2: they're like, what are we talking about here? No, it's

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Speaker 2: Dracula's Dog. And then Harrington's final full length film was

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Speaker 2: Mattahari in nineteen eighty five, starring Sylvia Crystal of Emmanuel fame,

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Speaker 2: and he continued to work as a director on various

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Speaker 2: TV shows, including the likes of Logan's Run, Charlie's Angels,

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Speaker 2: Wonder Woman, Dark Room Dynasty in one episode of the

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Speaker 2: eighty seven Twilight Zone revival Cool. So, Night Tide is

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Speaker 2: often referenced as Harrington's best and this is one of

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Speaker 2: the one of the main reasons we've moved on to

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Speaker 2: this after or Queen of Blood. We're like, we're impressed

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Speaker 2: with what we've seen from this guy in a film

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Speaker 2: where he was working with various constraints. What is it

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Speaker 2: like when he not to say he had just complete

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Speaker 2: free reign here, but you know, it's an independently produced picture.

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Speaker 2: He had a great deal of creative freedom here. You know,

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Speaker 2: what's it like when he puts that together? So Night

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Speaker 2: Tide is often considered one of his best, alongside seventy

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Speaker 2: one's What's the Matter with Helen? To understand that one's

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Speaker 2: highly regarded as well. But yeah, Night Tide especially manages

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Speaker 2: to exist with a foot in kind of two different worlds,

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Speaker 2: So the realm of avant garde experimentation and the world

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Speaker 2: of commercial genre work, and it mix for a very

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Speaker 2: interesting film. Again, not a campy monster film, but it's

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Speaker 2: effectively creepy. It's you know, it would say, low key

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Speaker 2: beautiful in many scenes, some very surreal shots, some dreamlike qualities,

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Speaker 2: great use of supernatural elements, and much of the film

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Speaker 2: strength is in its more I think ethereal contemplation of

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Speaker 2: loneliness and desire.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the movie is very subtle. I want to look

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Speaker 3: into some of these subtle touches and characterization when we

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Speaker 3: get into the plot section, especially just in the first

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Speaker 3: few minutes of the movie. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: feeling in it, and it does still have I think,

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Speaker 3: some of an art house sensibility, though I wouldn't stress

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Speaker 3: that too much because that might give you the idea

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Speaker 3: that it's, you know, more like these these other art

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Speaker 3: house films of the mid century that Harrington, by the way,

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Speaker 3: was associated with, people like Maya Darren and Kenneth Anger,

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Speaker 3: who made you might say, more symbolic films or films

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Speaker 3: that were less narratively coherent and instead were you know,

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Speaker 3: sequences of images or kind of strange abstract contemplations on

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Speaker 3: a theme. Harrington also did movies like that before he

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Speaker 3: had his breakout, you might say, with Night Tide. He

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Speaker 3: was mainly thought of as an art filmmaker, and he

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Speaker 3: made artistic short films like some of these other contemporaries

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Speaker 3: like Kenneth Anger, but yeah, he broke through, and he's

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Speaker 3: often considered one of the few, or maybe the only

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Speaker 3: one of these mid century California art directors who made

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Speaker 3: the switch into mainstream cinema. The others didn't.

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Speaker 2: Really Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenneth Anger, I think is the

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Speaker 2: really interesting figure to compare him to, because Anger never

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Speaker 2: left the indie scene, like he stayed in short indie

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Speaker 2: experimentation for the duration of his career, whereas, again, Harrington

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Speaker 2: successfully makes this transference into the commercial world and then

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Speaker 2: brings aspects of what made him special in the experimental

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Speaker 2: world with him.

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Speaker 3: And in Harrington's work, I feel like you can really

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Speaker 3: see both sensibilities, like there is there is definitely something that,

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Speaker 3: to me at least, always is still artistic about him,

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Speaker 3: like he's somebody who is at some level trying to

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Speaker 3: create art. But you can also see that he appreciates

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Speaker 3: camp and he has a love of the old Hollywood style,

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Speaker 3: like one thing about Night Tide A lot of people

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Speaker 3: have noted, and I think Harrington himself admitted to this.

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Speaker 3: He agreed that the movie was very influenced by a

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Speaker 3: previous Hollywood film, the nineteen forty two movie Cat People,

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Speaker 3: which I think we're going to have to do on

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Speaker 3: the show someday.

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Speaker 2: It keeps coming out.

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Speaker 3: We just never did an episode on it. But that

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Speaker 3: was Val Luton, produced, directed by Oh, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how you actually pronounce his name, Jacques Turner Tournaire his

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Speaker 3: French name. But that movie is also a romance about

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Speaker 3: a romance between a man and a woman in which

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Speaker 3: the woman may have a bizarre, supernatural secret. But you

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Speaker 3: can also apply a psychological framing to the plot. You

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Speaker 3: can kind of read it in the supernatural way or

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Speaker 3: in the psychological way, which is very much how Night

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Speaker 3: Tide is positioned as well. In general, I think for Harrington,

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Speaker 3: a major theme of his career was the constant struggle

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Speaker 3: and tension between artistic ambitions and a desire to maintain

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Speaker 3: a sort of artistic integrity, setting that against the practical

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Speaker 3: necessities of filmmaking and the you know, the desires of

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Speaker 3: people who were financing films like he's. I think he

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Speaker 3: framed his own life story very much in terms of

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Speaker 3: this constant difficult compromise between like what he felt he

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Speaker 3: had to do as a filmmaker and what he wanted

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Speaker 3: to do as an artist. But also you could get

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Speaker 3: the idea from that that he's somebody who's, you know,

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Speaker 3: very self serious about his work. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: that's entirely true either, because I was reading some excerpts

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Speaker 3: from a book that he wrote about his career called

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Speaker 3: Guys Don't Work in Hollywood. The excerpts I read are

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Speaker 3: fantastically He's a good writer, like good snappy pros, very funny, droll,

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Speaker 3: dry sense of humor, and he clearly he just has

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Speaker 3: a good sense of irony about Hollywood and about you know,

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Speaker 3: the people that he works with and what's going on.

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Speaker 3: There's one story that he tells in the book, again

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Speaker 3: clearly with a strong sense of irony, about how he

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Speaker 3: is invited to a dinner being given in honor of Truman,

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Speaker 3: Capote and Trum. He says Truman Capote comes up to

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Speaker 3: him and says, oh, I loved Night Tide. You know,

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Speaker 3: so he's about the movie we're talking about today. Capoti

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Speaker 3: was a fan. But he gets seated at this dinner

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Speaker 3: next to some actress. I actually can't remember her name,

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Speaker 3: but an actress who he becomes aware is a fan

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Speaker 3: of like religiously based book movie censoring crusades, you know,

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Speaker 3: against immorality and film, and so he's just kind of

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Speaker 3: trying to wind her up. He's like, oh, really, you know,

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Speaker 3: tell me about all the immorality and film. And apparently

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Speaker 3: she was like, can you believe this filth they're making?

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Speaker 3: Like Lawrence of Arabia. Apparently she was incensed because she

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Speaker 3: believed T. E. Lawrence was gay and thought, how could

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Speaker 3: you make a film about such a person?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the one of the classic films of

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Speaker 2: all time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. But anyway, the book seems like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I would really like to read this book. Harrington seems

405
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Speaker 3: like an interesting guy, not just somebody whose work was interesting,

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Speaker 3: but he had interesting perspective about it and about the

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Speaker 3: industry that he worked in. So I'm going to come

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Speaker 3: back and try to read that book.

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Speaker 2: At some point. Now. One of the things as well,

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Speaker 2: that Harrington has often given credit for is that he

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Speaker 2: recognized in Dennis Hopper and already you know, very very

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Speaker 2: you know, seasoned performer you been working for a number

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Speaker 2: of years, realized this is a guy whose performance you

414
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Speaker 2: could build a movie around. Yeah, and indeed this is

415
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Speaker 2: a lead Yeah, this could be this is a lead

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Speaker 2: actor right here. Let's use him like that, because this is,

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Speaker 2: in fact, Dennis Hopper's first starring role plays Johnny Drake.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about Hopper before, he of course lived nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty six through twenty ten. And since we've discussed Hopper before,

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Speaker 2: you know, mostly want to situate him within his career

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Speaker 2: in filmography here and again talking about like the Dennis

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Speaker 2: Hopper we see in this movie versus performances from Dennis

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Speaker 2: Hopper that may more instantly come to mind for you know,

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Speaker 2: folks looking back on the totality of his career. So

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Speaker 2: Hopper's credits go back to TV roles in the mid fifties.

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Speaker 2: He also had some early, minor and sometimes uncredited film

427
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Speaker 2: roles in the likes of fifty five's Rebel without a Cause.

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Speaker 2: He just plays like a random goon in that. I've

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Speaker 2: actually never watched Rebel without a Cause, and I certainly

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Speaker 2: haven't watched it looking for Dennis Hopper, but he's in

431
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: there somewhere. He's also when I Died a Thousand times.

432
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: He's in Giant in fifty six and various other films,

433
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 2: including Key Witness in nineteen sixty that was his credit

434
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: right before Nighttide, but again no lead roles until this film. Afterwards,

435
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 2: he did a great deal more TV work. He played

436
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: Tarzan in a nineteen sixty four Andy Warhol movie. He

437
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: was in the Sons of Katie Elder in sixty five,

438
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: Queen of Blood in sixty six, and then in sixty

439
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: seven he appeared in the Roger Corman directed and Jack

440
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: Nicholson scripted LSD film The Trip, as well as Cool

441
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: Hand Luke. And this is around the time that we

442
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 2: generally began to leave behind the scrappy young Dennis Hopper

443
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: and began to deal with the sort of counter culture

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: Dennis Hopper. And this is a period of some great

445
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: career high points, but also the beginnings of generally what's

446
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: considered multiple substance struggles that would plague Hopper until he

447
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: finally became sober and I believe nineteen eighty five, enabling

448
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: a career comeback that saw him appear in such films

449
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: as Hoosiers, which he received an OSCAR nomination for Blue Velvet,

450
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: as well as films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre too. I mean,

451
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 2: these are all films that came together, you know, because

452
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: he was able to really you know, jump back in

453
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: and and and see his career take back off again.

454
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: I Mean, I like a lot of Dennis Hopper rolls,

455
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: but I got to say there is nothing better than

456
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: his chainsaw shopping scene in Texas Chainsaw too, that that

457
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: is an Oscar worthy scene.

458
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, at the time period we're talking about here, though,

459
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: is kind of like a period of ups and downs.

460
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: You know, some of the ups are notable. Like you know,

461
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: he directed and co wrote the Oscar nominated nineteen sixty

462
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: nine film Easy Writer, which of course is you know,

463
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: considered a classic. He directed seventy one's The Last Movie,

464
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,239
Speaker 2: and nineteen eighties Out of the Blue, a film that

465
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it received much attention in

466
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 2: the States when it came out. There's some distribution issues,

467
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: but there's been there's been a lot of re examination

468
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: of that picture in recent years. And of course he

469
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 2: also appeared in seventy nine Is of poc Lips Now

470
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 2: during this time period as well, and that, of course

471
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 2: is also a very iconic performance that you know, in

472
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: my mind that that's one that really stands out, is

473
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: like Oh, that's Dennis Hopper. That's the sort of crazy

474
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: role that you that you come to expect from exactly.

475
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: So we were talking about this earlier. But when I

476
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: think Dennis Hopper, I think of his roles as high

477
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: energy madmen, you know, phrenetic presence dominating the screen, and

478
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: sort of acid rogues, people who have a countercultural, rebellious

479
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 3: screen presence. And also I just think about his villain roles,

480
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: you know, Blue Velvet Speed in the nineties, that kind

481
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: of thing. I mean, you know, Speed's probably not his

482
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 3: most artistically significant film, but he's notable in it. Like

483
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 3: you can't forget Dennis Hopper and Speed. But in Nighttide,

484
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: I just kept thinking, it is hard to believe Dennis

485
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: Hopper was ever this cute. The character he plays, named

486
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: Johnny Drake, is naive, soft spoken, a little bit shy

487
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 3: and helpless, and Hopper plays this role very earnestly without

488
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: any irony that's detectable. And I say that about the

489
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 3: irony because I would say even in some of his

490
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 3: other earlier, more straightforward roles that I've seen on the screen,

491
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 3: like he's kind of a background character in Queen of Blood,

492
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: just playing one of the Astronauts and he's not doing

493
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: anything all that exciting. But I remember thinking in Queen

494
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: of Blood that you could still get this devil in

495
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: disguise energy coming off of him. Like maybe that's my imagination,

496
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 3: but there's this energy like, if only somebody would let

497
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: me out of the cage of this role, I'd tear

498
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: this place apart. And there's nothing like that here, not

499
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: even a hint. This character is very earnest and reserved,

500
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: and Hopper is fully committed to the character.

501
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Hopper is really really good and Night

502
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: Tide it's fascinating performance on multiple levels. It's it's a

503
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: great performance knowing the sorts of roles and struggles that

504
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: would come to define him later on, but it's just

505
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: a great subdued, vulnerable performance, you know. I think it's

506
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: so nicely. His performance so nicely captures this sort of

507
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: yearning awkwardness of young adulthood, you know, like he he's

508
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: he's he's like, I'm going to get out there, I'm

509
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to live my life. But he doesn't

510
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: really know how to do that yet, how to fill

511
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: in such a large blank in the sentence of one's life. Yes,

512
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: and so his his performance is wonderful and again like

513
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: low key and and and he has this and at

514
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: the same time raw and it's kind of painful to

515
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: watch at times in the best of ways, like yeah,

516
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: like in a very subdued way, the exposed nerve endings

517
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: of emotion slightly grazing against the expanding realities of his world.

518
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: You know it, I don't know. It just makes you

519
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: think about being like a young person and not knowing

520
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: how to do any of the things that you feel

521
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: the desire to do.

522
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 3: That's such a great observation. You're totally right about the Yeah,

523
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: the way that he wants to live a life but

524
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: he doesn't know how to do it. You can see

525
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 3: that embodied when he tells the story at the beginning

526
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 3: about how he always wanted to see the world, so

527
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: he joined the Navy so he could see the world.

528
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: But then he tells more like, I haven't really seen

529
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: anywhere yet, you know, I've just been here in California.

530
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he mentions Hawaii, so about like he's

531
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: been to a military base in Hawaii and then back

532
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: here and in otherwise he's just been on a ship. Yeah,

533
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: because he's supposed to be from Denver. I believe that's right.

534
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, and there are other ways that. I mean,

535
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: I think you can say that the way he's pursuing

536
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: romance is like he has a yearning and he knows

537
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: that this is something he's supposed to do and he's

538
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: trying to do it right, but he also doesn't know

539
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: how to do it. He senses there's a gap and

540
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 3: he's trying to cross it, but he doesn't he doesn't

541
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: know where the bridges are.

542
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I was looking up to see, you know,

543
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: outside of that commentary track, which I didn't have access for,

544
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: I was wondering what Dennis Hopper has said about the film,

545
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: and I found a quote from an interview that Amy

546
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: Greenfield did with Hopper for Curtis Harrington's Cinema on the Edge,

547
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: And I'm just going to read a quote from it.

548
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: Here Hopper said, and you know, also, and I think

549
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: Curtis would agree with this also. But I've always equated

550
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: what Jean Cutos was saying. I think it was Jean

551
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: Cutou who said that ninety eight percent of creation was

552
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: accident and one percent was intellect and one percent was logic.

553
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: The art was learning how to make the accident work

554
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: for you. And I think, and when I think of Nighttide,

555
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: I think that Curtis had a very strong script. He

556
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: knew where we were going moment to moment, but within

557
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: that there was the freedom to create and then learn

558
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: to make the accident work for us.

559
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. I mean, this is a

560
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: very script bound movie. It doesn't feel improvised, like clearly

561
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: the characters are following their lines as written, and the

562
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: story is very coherent as written. But apart from like

563
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: the dialogue and the structure of the story, it does

564
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: it has the energy of one of those movies where

565
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: there was a lot of collaboration from the actors, Like

566
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: the actors are very much informing and contributing to their

567
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: own performances. Doesn't feel like overly controlled in terms of

568
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: how the actors are behaving and acting out their roles.

569
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. You know another

570
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: thing I just wanted to mention because this hadn't come

571
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: up yet. Apparently Dennis Hopper was a fan of Curtis

572
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: Herrington's short art films, and that was part of the

573
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: reason that he agreed to do Night Tide. Like Curtis

574
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: Harrington tells the story about how they met up in

575
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: a coffee shop and I guess this would have been

576
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: in La and they were talking about doing this project.

577
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: And I don't know how much Hopper got paid for

578
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: this role. I mean, maybe there was just regular ambition involved,

579
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: but clearly he was sold enough on Herrington as an artist,

580
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: on the artistic vision for the film that that was

581
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 3: a big part in his agreeing to do it.

582
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've read the same.

583
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

584
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's move on to the love interest

585
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: here and our possible mermaid, and that is Mora, played

586
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: by Linda Lawson, who in nineteen thirty six through twenty

587
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: twenty two American model, singer and actress of Italian descent

588
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: born Linda Gloria Sposiani. Her early career highlights were tied

589
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: to American nuclear weapons testing. She won the Atomic Pageant

590
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas in nineteen fifty five. This was at

591
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: the time of Operation Q, the Operation Q test, and

592
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: so her nickname was Miss Q. Yes, she was an

593
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: atomic pin up girl.

594
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: Bizarre. It's hard to imagine this was ever really a

595
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 3: thing like a beauty pageant tied inherently to weapons testing.

596
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the good old days when a test program for

597
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: a weapon of mass destruction had a sexy pr push

598
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah crazy yeah, so yeah. I think she was a

599
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: showgirl at the Sands Hotel at the time, and then

600
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: she got this gig as the Atomic pin up girl.

601
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: But after this she got into acting with TV roles

602
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: on various shows of the late fifties and sixties, including

603
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: episodes of Sea Hunt and Alfred Hitchcock Presents, and her

604
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: first film role was nineteen sixties The Threat, followed by

605
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: Night Tide. Afterwards. She continued to work in TV with

606
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: rolls really into the mid two thousands. Her other credits

607
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: include nineteen sixty six is Let's Kill Uncle? That's from

608
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: William Castle.

609
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: Oh the movie house gimmicks guy like the Tingler? Did

610
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 3: he do the Tingler?

611
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: He did? Yeah? Yeah, I'm not sure what the gimmick

612
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: would have been for Let's Kill Uncle, like, you know,

613
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: bring your uncle to the movie theater. If someone kills him,

614
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: your ticket, his ticket is on us. I don't know,

615
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: Oh boy. She was also in sixty seven's Magical Mystery Tour.

616
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: I believe that one's generally considered one of the lesser

617
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: Beatles films. Yeah. Also nineteen seventy one sometimes a great

618
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: notion directed by and starring Paul Newman, as well as

619
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies Miss Stones. Thing. That one actually has ed

620
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 2: Wood Junior in it as an actor. As an actor, yeah,

621
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: I think he has just a small role and I

622
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: think one of his alter egos there and then oh yeah,

623
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: she also put out a smooth jazz pop album in

624
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty. Wow.

625
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: I think Linda Lawson is fantastic in this movie. Some

626
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: people have characterized her role as a fem fatale, and

627
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 3: have also noted that Harrington's movies, especially even his short films,

628
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: the less narratively focused shorter films, had fem fatale like

629
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: figures in them, and in terms of explicit role in

630
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: the plot, you could say fem fatale makes sense because

631
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: we do learn she is suspected of having murdered her

632
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: two previous boyfriends, and the audience has to wonder if

633
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 3: maybe Johnny is next. But she doesn't play this character

634
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 3: like the typical film fatale from the era. You know

635
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: that character, I think is often portrayed as dangerous, untrustworthy,

636
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: possibly a heartless woman with secrets and hidden designs, to

637
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 3: the extent that Moura in Knighttide has secrets, and I

638
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: think maybe you are supposed to wonder if she has secrets.

639
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: It feels like she might not be aware of them

640
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: fully herself. They don't feel like schemes. They feel like

641
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: secrets that are operating upon her rather than you know,

642
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: from her desires. And so Lawson is quite mysterious, and

643
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 3: she has this great, you know, kind of unspoken thing

644
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: that she does in a lot of scenes where it

645
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: looks like she is maybe thinking something very strange that

646
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: she's not ready to say out loud. But she does

647
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: not come off like a villain or like a heartless

648
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: person working a scheme. So despite the structural threat she

649
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: poses within the plot, Maura is very sympathetic and I

650
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: would say even lovable, and a lot of that is

651
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 3: from Lawson's performance. I think she's great.

652
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 2: You know, there's probably like a sliding scale when you're

653
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: considering a character in a film that may be a

654
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: mermaid or a siren, where on one hand you've got

655
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: like full fem fatale or even full monster, and then

656
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: on the other end like complete doll person. You know,

657
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: we've all seen films like this often played up for

658
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: comedic effects where it's like, how do I do human?

659
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 2: You know, how do I behave as a human being?

660
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: How do I eat lobster at dinner table? That sort

661
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: of thing. You know, she doesn't feel like that. She

662
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like that at all, And she doesn't feel

663
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: like the extreme either. She's somewhere in a nice, comfortable middle,

664
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: which of course is a great place to be because

665
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 2: that's where everyone is. You know, we can see her

666
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: on the screen, we can have these questions about her

667
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: and even wonder if she's some sort of a supernatural

668
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: entity or other worldly being, but she's still you know,

669
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: everything we see from her we can relate to.

670
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: There's enough about her that is just clearly normally earthy

671
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 3: and human. We see her enjoying food, we see her

672
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: going out and enjoying music, you know, sitting there and

673
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 3: trying to listen to music while Johnny's bothering her. There's

674
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 3: enough about her that does feel human. She is not

675
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: just the terror and the panic that maybe she's being

676
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: called to the sea, but then these mysterious sort of

677
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: waves roll over her and that becomes part of her

678
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 3: in the moments where it's relevant in the plot. But

679
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 3: she's very human at other times.

680
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, all right, we have a character I think

681
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 2: we referred to m already. Sam Captain Samuel Murdoch also

682
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: an important character. We eventually learn that he is essentially

683
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 2: her father figure. Yeah, that he had adopted her founder

684
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: on an island at some point and has been her caretaker,

685
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: and he runs the Mermaid Show.

686
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, he does also run the Mermaid Show. He is

687
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: her adoptive father, and he also is her boss at

688
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 3: the Mermaid Show.

689
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, he has completely shaped the world that she

690
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: lives in in ways that are particular to this story

691
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: that you know, you could apply to any kind of

692
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: like parental scenario, or you could even view him outside

693
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: of the rental confines and just see him as kind

694
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: of just a general authority figure for what she is

695
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: and how she fits into the world. Yeah. But this

696
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: character is played by Gavin Muir, who lived nineteen hundred

697
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 2: through nineteen seventy two. Chicago born English educate educated actor

698
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: of the stage, screen, and TV, often affected a British

699
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: accent in his roles. He was a Broadway performer as well.

700
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: This was the tail end of his acting career, his

701
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: final film with only a single TV role. Afterwards in

702
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: sixty five, but his credits go back to nineteen thirty two.

703
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: Other notable films include thirty six's Mary Queen of Scott's,

704
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: forty five's The House of Fear, and Abd and Costello

705
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: Meet the Invisible Man in fifty one. Peter Loriie was

706
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: reportedly the first pick for this role, but was to

707
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: expense and I believe Laurie and Muir once worked together

708
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: in the same episode of nineteen fifty six's Operation Cicero.

709
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: But anyway, as much as I love Peter Lourie, I

710
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: can't picture louri in this role. I feel like Gavin

711
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: Muir does a great job here, and he provides a

712
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: nice theatrical counterpoint to Hopper's naturalistic style. So again, Hopper

713
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: is very subdued and believable. But Sam here is, you know,

714
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: he's a little bit more bombastic and theatrical, you know

715
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: he is. He's literally like a barker at the carnival

716
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: for the Mermaid Show. And this kind of showmanship seems

717
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: to permeate a lot of a number of aspects of

718
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: his life.

719
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: He's on he's playing. I liked this character a lot

720
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 3: more on second viewing because the first time, I was like,

721
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: when we're getting to know him in his early scenes,

722
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's I don't know, he kind of buffoonish sometimes.

723
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: But then on second viewing, I realized, like, oh, this

724
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: is not just the actor playing the character. The character

725
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: is an actor. The character is a performer, and he's

726
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 3: playing a guy who is always performing, like his persona

727
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: is kind of a performance, and he's performing for Johnny

728
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: as well, even when people aren't really watching. Yeah, you know,

729
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 3: he's playing a kind of familiar, stock, jovial English sea

730
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 3: captain character and that's the role he plays at the

731
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: Mermaid Attraction for the crowds, and so he's still playing

732
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 3: it all the time. I guess the question is like,

733
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: is there a division between the persona he uses when

734
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: he's performing at work versus who he is and his

735
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 3: off time. And then I guess you could ask the

736
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 3: same question about Mora really is she really the thing?

737
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: She's just acting pretending to be at this attraction? But

738
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 3: man thinking about this, but anyway, Yeah, so I liked

739
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 3: this character a lot better this second time. He seemed

740
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: more interesting and more complex the second time. Also, I

741
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: think though I'd love Peter Laurie so much. Peter Laurie

742
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: I think would have brought too much suspicion to this

743
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: character if just by being cast you'd immediately been thinking like,

744
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 3: what's the Skuy's deal? Whereas Kevin Muir here is very

745
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: disarming at first.

746
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so I really liked him in this all right.

747
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: Some getting into some of the side characters been in

748
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: this case a very important side character. We have the

749
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 2: character Ellen Sands, played by Lewana Anders, who lived nineteen

750
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: thirty eight through nineteen ninety six. She is an interesting

751
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: figure in the cinema of the fifties and sixties, especially

752
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: those who was active into the mid nineties. She began

753
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: as a byte messenger at MGM, alongside various other folks

754
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 2: starting out their careers with small studio roles like this,

755
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: including Jack Nicholson, who she apparently attended an improv class with.

756
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 2: Her first role was in fifty seven's Reform School Girls

757
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: that was a Samuel ze Arkov production, followed by a

758
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: handful of crime films before Night Tide. Given her connections

759
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 2: at this point to Nicholson and now Hopper, it should

760
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: come as no surprise that she begins popping up in

761
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: Corman productions there uch as Pitting the Pendulum in sixty one,

762
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 2: sixty three's The Young Racers, Francis Ford Coppola's debut film

763
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: Dementia thirteen and sixty three, and The Trip in sixty

764
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: seven Wow. She also went on to appear in sixty

765
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 2: nine's Easy Rider, which again Hopper directed, playing Lisa, one

766
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: of the hippie girls, and she'd also continue to appear

767
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: in various Jack Nicholson films over the years, including seventy

768
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: three Is the Last Detail, seventy six Is Missouri Breaks,

769
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: seventy eight's Going South, and The Two Jakes.

770
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety, she brought myself to watch The Two Jakes.

771
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: Two Jake I'm trying trying to remember is Two Jakes

772
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: the sequel to Chinatown. Yes, okay, all right, that's all

773
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: I know about it. Yeah, and it features two Jakes

774
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: one way or another. I don't know. I like films

775
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: that feature two of something like The Big Lebowski has

776
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: two lebowskis.

777
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: Exactly what I was thinking of it.

778
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, at any rate, Yeah, maybe it's good right in

779
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: if you have opinions on the Two Jakes, But.

780
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 3: You're a Jake Kitties, I'm a Jake Kitti.

781
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: Who plays the other Jake. Is it a dual role?

782
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, anyways. Andrews also worked with Harrington on

783
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: sixty seven's Games and seventy three is The Killing Kind

784
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: and she pops up in a bizarre horror film in

785
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: which Andy Rooney plays an insane Hollywood makeup artist who

786
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: kidnaps women. That's nineteen seventy one's the Manipulator, Okay, but

787
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: I really liked her here as well. A supporting but

788
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: important role was a kind of She's almost like the

789
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: counter to Mara's siren song. While Mora is often detached

790
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: and you know, and potentially otherworldly, Allen is very much

791
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: positioned as an all American girl, you know, very much

792
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: part of the world. But you know, I think one

793
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: of the interesting questionestion is does she also have her

794
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 2: own sort of siren song here? Is she presenting kind

795
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: of a compromise to the desires that Johnny in particular

796
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: is feeling. Is she like a safe choice in a

797
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: world that denies your desires?

798
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 3: That's a very good point. Is She's an interesting character

799
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: in exactly that way. So while Johnny is starting to

800
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: he loves Mara, he's clearly in love with her, but

801
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 3: he's starting to have all these questions and fears about

802
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 3: what she is and what, you know, what she might

803
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 3: mean for him. Here's Ellen over here, who clearly is

804
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: infatuated with him. Ellen clearly likes him, and she seems safe.

805
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: She seems so safe. So there, it's a different kind

806
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: of temptation than we usually see in romance stories. Often

807
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: the temptation is a temptation too danger from what is safer.

808
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 3: Here it goes the other way around.

809
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the danger is Yeah, you take the easy road,

810
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: but then where does that lead in the end, Like

811
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: what sort of life for you potentially, you know, intunbeing

812
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: yourself Finn.

813
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to be clear that it doesn't seem

814
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 3: like there's anything wrong with Ellen.

815
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: No, No, she seems like she seems fine.

816
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, she she likes him, she's a nice person all,

817
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 3: you know, basically everything about her that I can recall,

818
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: I don't recall anything, you know, anything negative coming off

819
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,479
Speaker 3: of her in the movie. But she's not the person

820
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 3: Johnny loves. And so I guess there's a question of

821
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: like it's like your true love versus just what seems safer.

822
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, spoiler here. Of course we're past spoilers,

823
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: but this is who Johnny's going to end up with.

824
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: And you could certainly watch this film and totally read

825
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: it like, oh yeah, he ended up with the good girl.

826
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: That's great, happy ending. But you can also read it

827
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: the other way. And that's one of the beautiful things

828
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: about this film.

829
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: I think you should read it the other way, or

830
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: maybe should is too strong, and you know, I don't

831
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 3: want to instruct people how to interpret the film, but

832
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 3: I mean I think it the loss of Mora is

833
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: the tragedy that is the lost love. You know that

834
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: his love for her was real and her love for

835
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 3: him was real, and so something is law when he

836
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 3: ends up with Ellen.

837
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Some other supporting characters of note here,

838
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: we have a character by the name of Madame Romanovitch

839
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: who pops up. She's like a tearro reader that has

840
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 2: a great scene with Johnny and she's.

841
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: Call her a fortune teller. Oh yeah, romance, that's right.

842
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: She's very particular about that. But she's played by Marjorie

843
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: Eaton with nineteen oh one through nineteen eighty six, American actress,

844
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: perhaps best known at least to many out there in

845
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: a kind of a trivia sense, as the original actor

846
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: to play the Emperor in nineteen eighties, The Empire Strikes.

847
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 3: Back, unbelievable. Yeah, I think they gave her chimpanzee eyes,

848
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: didn't they.

849
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got She's under a whole lot of makeup

850
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: with these giant eyes and a big black robe on,

851
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: and she's also not doing her own voice. She's dubbed

852
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: by a male actor. But it was, you know, originally

853
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 2: this was the glimpse we had of the Emperor on

854
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: the like the hollow presentation inside of Darth Vader's meditation chamber,

855
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: and it's and of course later that scene ends up

856
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: being replaced with footage of the I mcdarman performance of

857
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: Palpatine that we would get in Return of the Jedi

858
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: in the prequels to follow. Yeah, but anyway, that's what that's,

859
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, one of the things she's known for. But

860
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: as a full performer, she's also known for roles in

861
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 2: forty nine's The forsyth Woman, sixty three's Monstrosity, and sixty

862
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: four is Mary Poppins. She was also in Harrington's The

863
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: Killing Kind and you know, fun little performance here, you know,

864
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: totally solid you do not get any Emperor Palpatine vibes

865
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: from No.

866
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: She has a fun little scene doing a tarot reading

867
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: for Johnny in this movie, Rob. I wondered, what, though,

868
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 3: what you made of her rant against tea bags. You're

869
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: a fan of tea bags, right, yeah, I mean I

870
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: generally fill my own tea bags. Oh okay, yeah, but

871
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: I still use them. I've used other methods of straining

872
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 3: the leaves out. But her main thing is it's just

873
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 3: difficult to read someone's fortune if you don't have the

874
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: tea leaves in the you know, at the bottom of

875
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: the cup and all. So that's that's not my primary

876
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,479
Speaker 3: ambition in making a cup of tea.

877
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: So you know, we differ in that detail.

878
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's a professional grudge against tea bags. Yes, but hey,

879
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: this is not the only interesting Marjorie in the cast here.

880
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. We also have Marjorie Cameron here credited

881
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 2: as Cameron, and she plays a figure that is credited

882
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: as the Water, which I believe, but you might just

883
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: more distinctly refer to her as like the mysterious woman.

884
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: There's a mysterious woman that shows up we already mentioned him,

885
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: shows up speaking to Moura in some sort of foreign language.

886
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: I think it is actually Greek, but it's all Greek

887
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: to me. But yes, credited here as Cameron, and she

888
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: was herself a very fascinating counterculture figure of the time,

889
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: an American an artist, poet, actress, and occultist. She was

890
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: a follower of the esoteric religious movement known as the Lima,

891
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 2: founded in the early nineteen hundreds by Alistair Crowley, who,

892
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: of course lived eighteen seventy five through nineteen forty seven.

893
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: At this point, she was still married to another Thelamite

894
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: of note, American rocket engineer Jack Parsons.

895
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 3: Man, we are hitting some weird connections with this movie, Yeah, yeah.

896
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean this is just kind of like

897
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: the counter culture scene in and around LA that this

898
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 2: movie is rising out of. It's pretty fascinating.

899
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: So would I be correct in assuming that Marjorie Cameron

900
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 3: was sort of connected to Harrington's world through more like

901
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 3: the art scene, like avant garde films.

902
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was very much a part of

903
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: the avant garde arts scene. I'm to understand she was

904
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: friends with both Harrington and Kenneth Anger, who we mentioned already.

905
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: She appeared in Harrington's nineteen fifty six short film Wormwood Star.

906
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: She's also in Kenneth Anger's Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome

907
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: from fifty four. Nighttide was her fourth film and also

908
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: her last film, but she remained active as a poet

909
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: and an artist after this. So a nice enigmatic screen

910
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: presence here, and truly she gets to be one of

911
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 2: the film's real pervasive mysteries. Oh yeah, yeah, all right,

912
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: just a couple behind the scenes notes. The cinematographer on

913
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: this film was Villis Lapinix, who lived nineteen thirty one

914
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: through nineteen eighty seven, Latvian born cinematographer, best known for

915
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: his work on various genre films. He later won a

916
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 2: Primetime Emmy in seventy five for his work on the

917
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: television series Kojak. His credits include fifty eight's Hideous Sun Demon,

918
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, The Little Shop of Horrors, sixty two's Ega,

919
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: sixty five's Voyage to the Prehistoric Planet, seventy one's The

920
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: Hellstrom Chronicle, seventy seven's Night Tear, seventy one Cisco Pike,

921
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 2: and the nineteen eighty one sci fi comedy The Creature

922
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: Wasn't Nice. Starring Leslie Nielsen.

923
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say the cinematography in Nighttide is significantly better

924
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 3: than his work in Ego.

925
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, ega as I remember very much. A Let's shoot

926
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: this puppy between the hours of like noon and two

927
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: am in California. Lets get as much natural, like oppressive

928
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: light as possible. Yeah, all right? And then finally, the

929
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 2: composer here is David Raskin, who lived nineteen twelve through

930
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: two thousand and four. Two time Oscar nominee for forty Eights, Forever,

931
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 2: Amber and fifty nine separate tables. His work in film

932
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 2: goes back to the thirties, but often in uncredited form.

933
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: His other work includes thirty nine to Gorilla, sixty three

934
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 2: Scorpio Rising, that's the Kenneth Anger work, and eighty three's

935
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: The Day After. That's Nicholas Meyer, who talked about on

936
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: the show before. He also worked with Harrington on What's

937
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: the Matter with Helen?

938
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: All Right, would you like to talk about the plot?

939
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: Let's do it, Okay. I think the best way to

940
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 3: do this is we're not going to narrate the whole

941
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 3: movie scene by scene, but we are going to focus

942
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 3: more closely on some stuff in the first half and

943
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: then maybe talk in a more summary way about the

944
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: second half of the film. So I especially want to

945
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 3: look at the opening few minutes in a lot of

946
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 3: detail because I think there's a lot of subtlety here

947
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 3: and they establish some interesting things. So the credits play

948
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: over crashing waves on the beach and there's eerie obo music,

949
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 3: and in between the credits we see a young man

950
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 3: Dennis Hopper. Again. This is you know, it might be

951
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: hard to picture Dennis Hopper this way if you've never

952
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 3: seen him before. Like easy rider, but very smooth, super

953
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 3: clean cut in a navy uniform. He's leaning on the

954
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 3: wooden railing at the boardwalk and smoking a cigarette. And

955
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: it's nighttime and we can see the glare of theater

956
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 3: Marquee is flashing behind him, and.

957
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: This is nighttime. Yes, this is like that's one of

958
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: the reasons this film I think really should be seen

959
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: in black and white. These early scenes especially, you have

960
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: just a great play between the darkness and the light.

961
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the bright lights on the Marquees and at the

962
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: games that we're going to see in a minute. So

963
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 3: this is our main character, Johnny Drake. He's a young

964
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: Navy recruit, we will find out he's originally from Denver, Colorado,

965
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: and he's currently on shore leave in Santa Monica, California.

966
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: So in this first shot, he is smoking a cigarette

967
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 3: by himself on the pier, and I would say something

968
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 3: about him conveys loneliness. I think it's kind of there.

969
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 3: And the way he takes a puff and then he

970
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 3: cradles his chin in the palm of his hand and

971
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 3: just looks out over the water. He seems sweet, also

972
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: kind of bored and be like he doesn't know what

973
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 3: he should be doing. Johnny finishes his cigarette and then

974
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: he goes out, wandering past the arcade games on the

975
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: pier and past a shooting gallery. He stops in a

976
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 3: store and tries out a guess your Weight machine. It

977
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: says like, you know, game is free if you guess correctly.

978
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 3: We never see if he guesses right. He puts a

979
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 3: coin in and checks it out. Then he straightens out

980
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 3: his uniform and goes by himself into a photo booth,

981
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: and the camera follows him inside the booth and we

982
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 3: see him going from this kind of slack straight face

983
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: to suddenly cocking his face up in a smile. When

984
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: the flash goes bright, and then he comes out and

985
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: he studies the pictures that get printed out, and he

986
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 3: seems to take them as feedback. He like adjusts the

987
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 3: tilt of his hat as if that might address something

988
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 3: that is lacking in the way he looks in the photos.

989
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 3: And I love that little moment.

990
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot more expensive than just buying

991
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 2: a mirror, but yeah, so it's a nice moment. Yeah,

992
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: there's very much the same, the sense that you know,

993
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: he is out there looking for life, he wants to

994
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: experience life. But you know, ironically he is you know,

995
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: at a carnival environment, you know, at the pier where

996
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: everything is being like very much sold to you, the

997
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: idea of like, this will be fun, guessing your weight

998
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: up via machine. That's fun, right, give it a go,

999
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 2: give us some money for it, and then you know,

1000
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: inevitably it's going to be disappointing.

1001
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 3: So next Johnny wanders into a jazz club called the

1002
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 3: Blue Grotto. We see it outside. It's rob Do you

1003
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 3: know what this light thing is? There's like a light

1004
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: bulb above and then below the light bulb there is

1005
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 3: what looks like a dangling eggsack full of translucent glass.

1006
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 3: Spheres or something, but I guess it creates an interesting

1007
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: way of reflecting all the light. I don't know. I

1008
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 3: kind of want one of these for my house.

1009
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: Whatever it is, Yeah, yeah, it's not at first thought

1010
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: that it was going to be like, you know, glass

1011
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 2: floats from from you know, the kind they used to

1012
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 2: use with fishing nets and all. But I don't think

1013
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 2: that's what it is. It's just some sort of weird

1014
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: diffuser and also not a mirror ball, but yeah, something else.

1015
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've never seen this before anyway.

1016
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 3: Johnny goes into the Blue Grotto where a hip jazz

1017
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 3: combo is playing. It is a very flute forward jazz band.

1018
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 3: You don't, at least I don't. Maybe I'm not worldly enough.

1019
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 3: I don't often think of flute forward jazz, but that's

1020
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 3: what's going on here.

1021
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: Do you have a little jazz flute? Yeah? I think

1022
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: Howard Moon would approve.

1023
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: Okay, So the club is in a basement, and when

1024
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 3: Johnny enters from the street level, he has to go

1025
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: in by descending down a staircase like he's going into

1026
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: an underworld, and he stops on the stairs to look

1027
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 3: out over the crowd, and then the camera pans over

1028
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: the people to kind of give us a flavor. And

1029
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting because Rob, I don't know, maybe

1030
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 3: you've got a different impression, but to my eyes, this

1031
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 3: is not the kind of crowd that a movie usually

1032
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 3: picks to fill a club scene because and the reason is,

1033
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: this crowd seems kind of culturally mixed. Like you've got

1034
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 3: young and old. You've got some hips in sunglasses and

1035
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 3: cool clothes who are very on frequency with the band,

1036
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: and then you've got other people who just look like

1037
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 3: squares who wandered in off the street. Do you know

1038
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about here?

1039
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:07,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean. Oftentimes, though we'd see

1040
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 2: this sort of setting in far lesser films, we have

1041
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: like some sort of a club scum right where we

1042
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: want to get a very clear idea apart across that

1043
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: this is like a bad place and it's full of scoundrels.

1044
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 2: Here though, it kind of feels like, oh, Johnny has

1045
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: finally found a place of authentic interest. You know, it's

1046
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 2: not just some sort of carnival trick, Like this is

1047
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 2: actual art going on and people were here to experience it.

1048
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Johnny pauses while he's coming down the stairs.

1049
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: It seems like he feels drawn to this place, but

1050
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: maybe he doesn't know how he fits in. And you

1051
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 3: can see these subtle signs of anxiety and Hopper's body language,

1052
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 3: like in the way he keeps folding and kneading his

1053
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 3: sailor's cap and his hands while he's walking around looking

1054
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: for a place to sit. And then also after he did,

1055
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 3: you know, as after he gets a beer, he pours

1056
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 3: half of it out into so he's got the bottle.

1057
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 3: He pours half of the bottle into this class mug,

1058
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: but he pours it badly, so it's got this huge,

1059
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: massive head on top. And then you see him not

1060
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 3: knowing which to take a sip out of, so he's

1061
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: like bottle, no weight glass, So he's watching the band

1062
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 3: awkwardly alternating which thing he's trying to take a sip

1063
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: out of. And then he goes to sit down and

1064
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: finds a place with his back to the wall, basically

1065
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 3: sitting beside the band, looking out over the crowd, and

1066
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 3: he sees a man and a woman sitting together, with

1067
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 3: the man kind of gallantly lighting a cigarette for the woman.

1068
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: He sees a lonely looking old man sitting by himself

1069
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: in a dark alcove with the light of a lamp

1070
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: reflecting off of his bald head. And then he sees

1071
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 3: a meaty looking guy in a square haircut who looks

1072
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 3: like he could maybe be in the Armed forces himself,

1073
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 3: and he's sitting at a table with two women, with

1074
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: one of the women stroking his hair while they talk.

1075
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: Then he sees another man sitting alone, haggard, staring at

1076
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 3: the floor, with a bunch of empty bottles at his table.

1077
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 3: This guy's in a night of heavy drinking. And then

1078
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 3: finally a couple sitting nestled together, with the man's arm

1079
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 3: around the woman, and they're whispering to each other intently

1080
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: while their faces are just a few inches apart. I

1081
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 3: feel like the effect of this pan across the room

1082
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: is almost like, just in very quick successions, seeing lots

1083
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 3: of different ways your life could go. Yeah, like seeing

1084
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 3: people who look like they're happy and in love, and

1085
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 3: seeing people who look like they're they're you know, crashed

1086
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 3: out and in a terrible place, and then maybe other

1087
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 3: kind of strange positions somewhere in between. But I feel

1088
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 3: like it fits in very much with the we see

1089
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: the way Johnny looks at the world in this scene,

1090
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 3: and it's very much one of not knowing how he

1091
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 3: fits in or what kind of course his life is

1092
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 3: going to take.

1093
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but with the suspicion that it's like companionship is important,

1094
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 2: and like the people who have companionship their lives seem active.

1095
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: In those who are not attached, they seem lonely, and

1096
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to be one of them. How are

1097
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 2: people looking at me alone in this club?

1098
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? So finally the camera pans over to land on

1099
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 3: Linda Lawson playing the character that we will come to

1100
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: know as Maura. She is sitting by herself, looking beautiful,

1101
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 3: mysterious and very intense. But I would also say inscrutable.

1102
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what the word for this is,

1103
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: but Rob, I hope you'd agree. Like she has a

1104
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 3: way of looking very intense without looking very emotional.

1105
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you almost expect her to have a notebook

1106
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,479
Speaker 2: at the hand and she's like maybe taking notes about

1107
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 2: the performance.

1108
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the other people we saw were mostly quite

1109
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 3: emotionally readable, like they were happy or at least content,

1110
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 3: or they looked lonely and run down, and Maura's face

1111
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 3: doesn't tell us much. Maybe there is a sense that

1112
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 3: she is practiced at hiding emotional information, which might make

1113
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: more sense later on. But she's watching the band mouth flat,

1114
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: bobbing her head slightly to the music. And I only

1115
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: noticed this on the second viewing. I didn't pick it

1116
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 3: up the first time. But the way she's dressed here

1117
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 3: is interesting. Everybody else is dressed in what looks like

1118
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 3: fairly normal kind of sixties club clothes or just sixties

1119
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 3: street clothes. Maura is wearing a white dress that is

1120
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,439
Speaker 3: draped in a way that looks a lot like how

1121
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 3: they would dress women to be ancient Greeks or Romans

1122
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 3: in the movies of this time.

1123
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, she really does.

1124
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is nothing about looking at her that gives

1125
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: her away as being of the twentieth century. She's not

1126
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 3: wearing a watch or any modern fashion or anything that

1127
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: looks twentieth centuries like. She looks like she could be

1128
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 3: a Greek goddess. And then another thing I would say

1129
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 3: is that she does not look approachable. She is giving

1130
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 3: off big, leave me alone energy, which Johnny promptly ignores.

1131
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like awkwardly sets across from the hottest

1132
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: woman in the entire venue and then proceeds to think

1133
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 2: that he can talk to her during the middle of

1134
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: the performance.

1135
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 3: Hi, what's up. Yeah, so Johnny, he comes across the room.

1136
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 3: He takes a moment to work up his courage, and

1137
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 3: then he asks if he can sit down at her

1138
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: table because he says he can't see the band from

1139
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 3: where he's sitting, and she says that's fine. She's being polite,

1140
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 3: and he's so nervous and cute here. He kind of

1141
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 3: laughs at himself while he's asking to sit, And then

1142
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 3: after he sits down, he tries to make conversation with her,

1143
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 3: but she's like, I'd like to listen to the band please,

1144
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 3: So he's like, oh, okay, and then he offers to

1145
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 3: buy her a drink. She says no, thank you. He

1146
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: offers again, she says no, thank you again. Seems like

1147
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 3: this is going nowhere, like she's being polite but she's

1148
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: not looking for company. But then everything changes because suddenly,

1149
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 3: in the back of the club, a woman emerges from

1150
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: behind a curtain and walks into the crowd. She's dressed

1151
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 3: in all black, in a gown with black sheer sleeves

1152
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 3: and a long dangling gold necklace. She has heavy eye

1153
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 3: makeup on, and there's something instantly ominous and kind of

1154
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 3: enchanted looking about her. This is the character that I

1155
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 3: think in the credits maybe is called water Witch or

1156
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 3: people called the sea Witch. But again, you could think

1157
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 3: of her at this point as just a mysterious woman.

1158
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 3: So she steps into view and she locks eyes on Maura.

1159
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 3: Mara sees her and then looks back, and it's kind

1160
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 3: of like they know each other, but somehow the shared

1161
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: gaze is not friendly. It is threatening and hypnotic. She

1162
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: approaches the table and she begins to speak to Maura

1163
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 3: in another language. There are no subtitles, so we have

1164
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 3: no idea what she's saying. I read online. I don't

1165
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 3: know if this is true, but I read online like

1166
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 3: a user comment somewhere saying that she is speaking in

1167
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 3: Greek and she's saying something along the lines of you

1168
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: will come and join us soon. Yeah, So, whether or

1169
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 3: not that's true, that feels like what she could be

1170
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 3: saying in this scene, and I think it is not

1171
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 3: something that the audience is supposed to understand. It's unclear actually,

1172
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 3: if Maura understands what she's saying. The tone of the

1173
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 3: speech is not friendly. It feels like a piece of

1174
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 3: maybe threatening information is being delivered, and then Mara's eyes

1175
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 3: flare and she looks disturbed, and the woman walks away.

1176
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,959
Speaker 3: So Johnny's just oblivious this whole time. He's like, huh,

1177
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 3: who was that? And Mora says she doesn't know. She's

1178
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 3: already like trying to get out, like this has alarmed her,

1179
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 3: and she's like nervously collecting her things and trying to leave,

1180
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 3: and Johnny's like, hey, what did that woman say to you?

1181
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,479
Speaker 3: Morris says nothing and then hurriedly asks Johnny if he'll

1182
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 3: pay for her check, and then she bolts for the exit,

1183
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 3: so Johnny follows. On his way out the door, he

1184
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 3: looks back and he makes eye contact with the Sea Witch,

1185
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 3: who is now sitting at a table, just stroking the

1186
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 3: stem of a cocktail glass, very impassive, but she doesn't

1187
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 3: look away. She just like stares straight back at Johnny.

1188
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 3: She stares him down and he has to turn and run.

1189
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: So after this, Johnny follows Mora out into the streets,

1190
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 3: which are now lonely and deserted. Earlier they were full

1191
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: of people going around to the different games and shops

1192
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 3: and stuff. And I guess now it's late, so Mara

1193
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: tries to tell Johnny to leave her alone, but Johnny

1194
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 3: is persistent, and eventually Mara agrees to let him walk

1195
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 3: her home. When they get to her apartment, Johnny realizes

1196
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 3: that the building houses a Merry Go Round, and he

1197
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 3: laughs at this and asks if she lives inside a

1198
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 3: wooden horse. It's unclear to me if the character Johnny

1199
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 3: is supposed to be aware of the trojan horse implications

1200
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 3: of this question. I think the writer, like Curtis Harrington,

1201
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 3: is aware, and I think the audience is supposed to

1202
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 3: be aware, But I don't know whether Johnny is supposed

1203
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 3: to understand what he's saying there. I don't know if

1204
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 3: you had an opinion.

1205
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 2: On that, But no, I mean I think yet Johnny

1206
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 2: doesn't really pick up on it. And yeah, I think

1207
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 2: we as the audience are to pick up on it

1208
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: to some degree.

1209
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 3: Johnny not super familiar with the classics, as we will

1210
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 3: learn from a later scene. Yeah, but the question breaks

1211
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 3: through and Mara laughs at this, and she says, no,

1212
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 3: her apartment is upstairs, it's above the Merry Go Round.

1213
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 3: They talk about the pros and cons of living over

1214
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: a Merry Go Round. Cons include It's noisy pros include

1215
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 3: the music reminds her of when she was a child,

1216
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 3: and you can see in this exchange that despite you know,

1217
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 3: she was not interested at first, now she's starting to

1218
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 3: like Johnny. Johnny then tries some inappropriately aggressive cording. He

1219
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 3: tries to get her to invite him upstairs, but she

1220
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 3: says no. He tries to kiss her. She's not ready. However,

1221
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 3: she does eventually tell him that they can see each

1222
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 3: other again, and she invites him to come over in

1223
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,919
Speaker 3: the morning so she can cook him breakfast, which seems

1224
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 3: like a weird date. I don't know is that, but anyway,

1225
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,440
Speaker 3: Johnny is thrilled, so she goes upstairs and he is

1226
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 3: just so related. He climbs up on the handrailing of

1227
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 3: the boardwalk and walks along the top of it like

1228
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 3: a kid.

1229
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a great scene here, because in

1230
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 2: all of this you get the sense that neither of

1231
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 2: them really know how any of this really works. They

1232
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 2: just kind of have vague ideas about how courtship is

1233
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 2: supposed to work. And Johnny, we might we can I

1234
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 2: think very much assume that Johnny has maybe just is

1235
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 2: just acting on stories that he's heard from Navy buddies

1236
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: to a large extent, like this is how it works.

1237
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: And then maybe more doesn't really know either, And so yeah,

1238
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 2: they're gonna end up having this weird second date where

1239
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 2: they have breakfast.

1240
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I love this second date scene, actually the

1241
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 3: fish breakfast scene. So Johnny comes back brighton early, and

1242
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 3: you can tell he really set his alarm clock for

1243
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 3: this one. He is still wearing his navy uniform. I

1244
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 3: don't know exactly what we're supposed to read into this,

1245
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,439
Speaker 3: like are these the only clothes he has or the

1246
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 3: nicest clothes? Is he trying to impress her? I'm not

1247
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: quite sure, but like he's often wearing this this navy

1248
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 3: uniform and scenes where he's not on duty.

1249
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: You know, you may have read this as well, but

1250
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 2: I read that in order to properly shoot the navy

1251
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: uniform that Dennis Hopper is wearing, they had to like

1252
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 2: have a slightly dingy navy uniform, So like a pure

1253
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 2: white one would I guess maybe just be too bright

1254
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 2: on the screen or it wouldn't read didn't look good,

1255
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: it didn't look the way they wanted to, So they

1256
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 2: had to have him in a slightly dingy one, but

1257
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: then like they were out shooting and like somebody, like

1258
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,719
Speaker 2: somebody actually in the navy like reprimanded Hopper on wearing

1259
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 2: such a dingy uniform and they'd be like, no, no, no,

1260
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 2: it's for a movie Justice. Yeah.

1261
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, some navy guys tried to get him for not

1262
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 3: being up to dress code, which is hilarious imagining him

1263
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 3: being like impressed back to sea or something grabbed Dennis

1264
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 3: Hopper and take him to the boat. Yeah, but anyway,

1265
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 3: Dennis Hopper, he comes back. So Johnny has a nice

1266
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 3: introduction to the older man who runs the Merry Go

1267
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 3: Round downstairs, and he takes some time to admire the

1268
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 3: hand carved wooden horses. You can tell he's just over.

1269
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 3: He's just so excited to be coming back to have

1270
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 3: breakfast with Mora. He's like, you know, the whole world

1271
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 3: is bright. And Johnny also meets Ellen, the granddaughter of

1272
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 3: the Merry Go Round. Grandpa Ellen is about Johnny's age,

1273
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 3: and they're getting along well. But when the Merry Go

1274
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 3: Round man finds out that Johnny is here to visit Mora,

1275
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 3: his mood kind of darkens and he seems a little concerned.

1276
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 3: He asks if Johnny just met her for the first time,

1277
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 3: and for some reason, Johnny gets kind of sheepish and

1278
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 3: he lies. He says, no, no, I've known her for

1279
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 3: a while. I don't know exactly why he lies here,

1280
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 3: And maybe he doesn't really understand either. He just kind

1281
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 3: of feels off guard and like maybe something's wrong or

1282
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, or maybe I don't know if there's

1283
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 3: a thing about propriety, like should he be visiting her

1284
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 3: apartment if you just met her.

1285
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of the vibe I got from it,

1286
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: where he's like, oh, you just meet this woman, and

1287
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 2: you know, if he were to say, yeah, I just

1288
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 2: met her last night, and you know, this is just

1289
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 2: some stranger and he didn't know what the strange getting

1290
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 2: at either.

1291
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can hear church bells tolling while Johnny had

1292
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 3: upstairs to see her. By the way, on the way

1293
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 3: up the stairs, Johnny crosses paths with the guy who

1294
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 3: I am pretty sure is the same actor who played

1295
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 3: the night watchman from The Wasp Woman, Remember the guy

1296
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 3: who likes radio programs And then Susan Cabot eats.

1297
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, I didn't clock that, but but it's

1298
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 2: so good connection.

1299
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 3: Anyway, Johnny goes up to Mora's apartment. Of course, this

1300
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 3: would be another Roger Corman connection. So Johnny goes up

1301
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 3: to Mora's apartment. She welcomes him inside. Her mood seems

1302
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 3: a lot happier than the night before. She shows him around.

1303
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 3: Her apartment is decorated with sea stars and other things

1304
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 3: she's collected from the ocean, and you can hear the

1305
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: waves outside the window. So it's an overwhelming presence of

1306
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 3: the sea in this apartment, both from within and from without.

1307
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 3: And so they go out to eat breakfast on the balcony,

1308
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 3: which looks out over the beach. Her balcony has an

1309
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 3: amazing view of the sea and you can see people

1310
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 3: swimming down below. And they sit down. Johnny suggests that

1311
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 3: they make a toast. He says, to you and me

1312
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 3: and to the beautiful Pacific that had more significance the

1313
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 3: second time I saw it, Like you might want to

1314
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 3: reconsider inviting the Pacific Ocean to be a third party

1315
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 3: in their relationship. Notably, Mora just says to us, Johnny,

1316
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 3: she does not mention Pacific. But so what are they

1317
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:29,759
Speaker 3: having for breakfast? Just fish? Yeah, that's it. Fish, nothing else.

1318
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 3: It's two mackerel she has cooked. She says she got

1319
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 3: them this morning. She doesn't say where she got them.

1320
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,639
Speaker 3: Did she get them at the market or.

1321
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 2: I mean at this point in the movie. If you

1322
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 2: go into this movie at all, you know that there's

1323
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 2: some possibility of mermaids. So yeah, I was like wondering,

1324
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: did she just dive in and she caught all of

1325
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 2: these or these caught them with their bare hands and

1326
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: brought them up, you know. And I was also wondering,

1327
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 2: how much of a kind of like Splash Mermaid out

1328
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 2: of water scenario are we going to get it. She's

1329
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 2: gonna start eating like fish heads and stuff, but now

1330
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 2: we don't get any of that. Love moreplash.

1331
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 3: Have you seen Splash?

1332
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been on. This is one that me and

1333
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,520
Speaker 2: my sisters used to watch. We had it on VHS,

1334
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 2: probably like taped off a TV or maybe it was

1335
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 2: an actual VHS. We watched it a lot because they

1336
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 2: were super into Mermaids. And it's just a really good movie.

1337
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 2: As I recall, I have not seen it in decades,

1338
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 2: but I probably should revisit it.

1339
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,719
Speaker 3: Is the premise, is it Tom Hanks and Daryl Hannah? Yes, yeah, yeah, Okay,

1340
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 3: and like she's a mermaid, and if she's a legit.

1341
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 2: Mermaid, yeah, and then you know there are all these

1342
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 2: It's very much a Mermaid out of Water film, with

1343
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 2: some hilarious sequences, including a scene where they get lobster

1344
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 2: at a restaurant and she begins to like eat the

1345
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 2: lobster whole, like shell and all like a sea animal wood.

1346
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 2: And it's a great scene.

1347
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 3: Well, some excellent overlap with Night Tide because more here

1348
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 3: goes on about how she loves food from the ocean.

1349
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 3: She's like, I love lobster, crab, sea urchin. She described

1350
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 3: sea urchin as like a beautiful fruit from the sea

1351
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 3: that you just scoop up and eat. Johnny's never had it,

1352
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 3: of course, I get the feeling. Johnny's Johnny's very chicken

1353
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 3: nuggets guy. Like he's not not tried a lot of foods.

1354
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 2: But he wants to and that's and that's a great thing.

1355
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 2: Like he wants these news new experiences and he's open

1356
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:10,679
Speaker 2: to try anything.

1357
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. So also I think maybe he does not like fish,

1358
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 3: but he doesn't say anything about it. You see him

1359
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 3: take a tiny bite of his mackerel and then he

1360
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 3: pauses for a minute and he goes.

1361
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I mean, do we know that the fish

1362
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 2: is indeed cooked? That was I think I thought I

1363
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 2: had When it flakes, yeah, I think, yeah, flakes. It's okay.

1364
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 3: But they make conversation. So in the scene, Johnny learns

1365
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 3: about Mara's job. Maura works at a carnival attraction out

1366
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 3: on the pier, the Santa Monica Pier, where she performs

1367
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 3: as a mermaid. So she puts on an artificial fish

1368
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 3: tail that covers her legs and then she lies down

1369
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 3: in a tank that makes it look like she's underwater

1370
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 3: and people pay twenty five cents to come look at her.

1371
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,919
Speaker 3: More of the mermaid, and then Johnny tells her about himself.

1372
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,520
Speaker 3: He tells her that he grew up in Denver, Colorado.

1373
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 3: His father left his family when he was a baby,

1374
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 3: so he grew up very close to his mother. He

1375
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 3: always wanted to travel and see the world, but he couldn't,

1376
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 3: And then after his mother died, he figured out that

1377
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 3: he could see other parts of the world if he

1378
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 3: joined the navy, So that's what he did. Though he

1379
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 3: hasn't been much of anywhere really, like you said, I think,

1380
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 3: he says, maybe he's only been to Hawaii so far,

1381
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 3: but more is encouraging. She's like, I think you'll you'll

1382
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 3: get to travel yet. But then from here, they're eating

1383
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 3: their food and there are seagulls circling and they're suddenly

1384
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: menaced by gulls, and strangely, one of them flies down

1385
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 3: and lands right in Mora's arms, and then she holds

1386
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: it like a cat, stroking its feathers, and Johnny is

1387
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 3: a little He's like, wow, where'd you learn to do that?

1388
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 3: And Mora says she does not remember. She maybe learned

1389
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 3: it on the island where she was born, and she's

1390
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 3: kind of muttering, sweet little bird, don't be afraid.

1391
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 2: So she's basically like a Disney princess here. Yes. Yeah,

1392
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 2: the wild birds are landing in her lap and she's

1393
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:04,520
Speaker 2: treating them kindly.

1394
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: Like snow white. Yeah, bird's coming down land on the hand.

1395
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 3: But in this conversation, Mara tells Johnny that he can

1396
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 3: come see her where she works because she's gonna be

1397
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 3: working later that day. You get the sense that he's

1398
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 3: very excited to see her in mermaid mode, and so

1399
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 3: later that day she takes him out to the pier

1400
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 3: where she works, and they go to the Mermaid House

1401
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 3: before it opens, where Johnny meets an older man that

1402
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 3: Mara calls Sam. Sam is also known as Captain Murdoch.

1403
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 3: This is Captain Sam Murdoch, a retired sea captain with

1404
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 3: a British accent. He seems to be maybe sleeping off

1405
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 3: a hangover behind the booth in front of the building.

1406
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,519
Speaker 3: Sam is the owner and operator of the Mermaid attraction,

1407
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 3: and he sits out front of the building with a

1408
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 3: megaphone running a spiel. He's like, come see the amazing

1409
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 3: half woman, half fish. It's the thrill of a lifetime.

1410
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 3: And we learn not in this scene, but we learn

1411
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 3: later that Sam is not just Moraa's boss, he is

1412
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 3: her a optive father. So when Sam and Johnny are

1413
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 3: left alone, Mora goes to get dressed and Sam kind

1414
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 3: of tries to bond with Johnny as they are both

1415
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 3: men of the sea, but of course Johnny just started

1416
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 3: being a man of the sea. And we learn in

1417
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 3: this conversation that Sam was once in the English Navy.

1418
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 3: After that he was captain of a private vessel, and

1419
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 3: we find out eventually that it was while sailing the

1420
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,799
Speaker 3: world that he found a moura orphaned on an island

1421
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 3: near Greece. I think they say the island of Mikonos,

1422
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 3: and he adopted her and raised her there after. But

1423
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 3: after a bit, Mora calls out to Johnny from inside.

1424
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 3: She's like, I'm ready now, so Johnny has to come

1425
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 3: see her. And Johnny goes into the darkened room around

1426
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 3: the corner and he looks down into the tank and

1427
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 3: there are sparkles reflecting the spotlights, and so there are

1428
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,560
Speaker 3: you know, reflected lights dancing up on the ceiling. And

1429
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 3: Johnny looks down and he sees more inside and she

1430
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 3: is beautiful, mesmerizing but haunting, and the music swells with

1431
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 3: these these strange tones. And when he's looking down on her,

1432
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 3: her eyes are closed, and there's this feeling that maybe

1433
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 3: she could be dead, but you could see her, you

1434
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 3: could see her moving ever so slightly, so you know

1435
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 3: she's alive. She's combing her long, dark hair while she

1436
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 3: lies there with the fishtail.

1437
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, this is the first scene

1438
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 2: with the interior of the Mermaid Attraction where we can

1439
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 2: already begin to contemplate this in a number of ways,

1440
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 2: like the Mermaid as the object of desire and affection,

1441
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 2: but also as desire itself, like it's desire taking on

1442
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,640
Speaker 2: this like strange form as it is imprisoned really and

1443
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 2: also ultimately kind of entombed in this exhibit.

1444
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, imprisoned behind glass in a ways, stuck in there

1445
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 3: in a kind of suspended animation. Almost. The way she

1446
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 3: looks like she's not fully alive inside is kind of

1447
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,520
Speaker 3: like listless, lethargic combing of the hair while being observed

1448
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 3: by the people who pay money to come and look down.

1449
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's very much a specimen sort of display,

1450
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 2: you know, going into this, I was I was imagining

1451
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 2: up to this point that the Mermaid presentation would be

1452
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 2: kind of like the Mermaid shows that you see in

1453
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 2: various places, like the witchy watchy sort of thing. I've

1454
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 2: never seen that, oh well, you know, the old fashioned

1455
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 2: shows where you're generally going to be looking at a fish,

1456
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 2: like a big fish tank or some sort of a

1457
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:24,560
Speaker 2: tank straight ahead, and there'll be women in Mermaid costumes

1458
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 2: that are performers using like a breathing hose apparatus and

1459
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 2: then swimming around, you know, very much alive, creating and

1460
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 2: maybe even you know, as the ones I've seen before,

1461
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 2: putting on some sort of a show like reenacting, like

1462
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 2: The Little Mermaid that sort of thick some sort of

1463
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 2: to the degree that you can truly act when you

1464
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 2: have to breathe through a hose in between tanks. Right,

1465
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 2: But it's not that it's not a live again. It

1466
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 2: feels more like a specimen, almost like some sort of

1467
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 2: a you know, a freak show sort of environment.

1468
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 3: So anyway, some time passes, we cut ahead and we

1469
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 3: see Johnny and Mora are continuing their romance over the

1470
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 3: following days. So they like each other more and more

1471
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 3: and they are starting to fall in love. There's a

1472
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 3: scene where they go to the beach together. They frolic

1473
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 3: in the water and then they lie out in the sun.

1474
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 3: There's a funny boat where they argue about whether you

1475
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 3: can go swimming right after you eat. Johnny says no,

1476
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 3: can't do it, it's dangerous, and Maura doesn't believe it. Rob,

1477
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 3: do you have a ruling.

1478
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 2: On this as a swimmer, I mean, I generally don't

1479
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 2: swim right after eating. I rarely think about it, just

1480
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 2: because it rarely comes up as a possibility. But yeah,

1481
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 2: I would probably have this if I were in Johnny's shoes,

1482
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 2: I would probably have this moment where I'd be like,

1483
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: is that true or is that a misnomer? And then

1484
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 2: I'd probably have to research it.

1485
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 3: Well, Johnny has no such self doubt full confidence, you

1486
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 3: can't do it. Mara tells Johnny about her relationship with Sam.

1487
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 3: You know, this is where we learn that he found

1488
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,640
Speaker 3: her orphaned on the island of Mikonos. He raised her,

1489
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 3: He's been like a father to her. And she says

1490
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 3: she knows he's a strange man, but he's been good

1491
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 3: to her. And then Johnny there apologizes for thinking poorly

1492
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 3: of Sam at first and maybe saying some things that

1493
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 3: kind of was like what's the sky's deal? But then

1494
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 3: there's one part here, it's not the only part of

1495
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 3: the movie like this, where suddenly she starts describing a

1496
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 3: kind of mystical emotional relationship with the forces of nature,

1497
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 3: and especially the ocean. So Mora lies back and she

1498
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 3: feels the sun on her skin, and she says, I

1499
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 3: love the sun and the moon and the stars, and

1500
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 3: Johnny says, and the sea, and she says, yes, I

1501
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 3: love the sea most of all. But I'm afraid of

1502
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:51,559
Speaker 3: it too. Johnny says, I guess we're all a little

1503
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 3: afraid of what we love, and that moment seems a

1504
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 3: little out of character for Johnny. I was like, what

1505
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 3: is Johnny suddenly wise? But I think it actually it

1506
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 3: scans the more I think about it, Like it makes sense.

1507
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,799
Speaker 3: It's an out of the mouths of babes comes wisdom

1508
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 3: stuff like Johnny is not stupid, but he's not very experienced,

1509
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 3: and he's not very wise about the world. It just

1510
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 3: it just kind of feels like it's a thing he

1511
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 3: says because it feels like a thing to say in

1512
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 3: the moment, but actually there's a lot of truth to it,

1513
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,520
Speaker 3: and it's relevant to the story.

1514
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,560
Speaker 2: And I think it's lived in as well, like he

1515
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 2: he has experience already of being a little afraid of

1516
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:31,839
Speaker 2: the things that he loves that he feels desire towards.

1517
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 2: And Yeah, this is just a beautiful line in the

1518
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:36,799
Speaker 2: film that really feels more or less like its thesis statement,

1519
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, and very very key to this contemplation on

1520
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 2: love and desire in a world that may push you

1521
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 2: in different directions.

1522
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, And I think there are multiple ways to

1523
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 3: read it in which it's true. I mean, I think

1524
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 3: you can say from Johnny's perspective. It's true, and it

1525
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 3: makes sense because he's head over heels for Moura, but

1526
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 3: also she's strange, Like he's already had these strange moments

1527
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 3: where he feels like he doesn't really understand her, maybe

1528
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 3: worries that he's never going to be able to understand her.

1529
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 3: There's something different about her than she He's not on

1530
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 3: her level. But then I would say the second thing

1531
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 3: is the inevitable aspect of it. It's almost like a

1532
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 3: self fulfilling statement, which is that anytime you love something,

1533
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 3: you inevitably fear losing what you love, So like love

1534
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 3: can't exist without fear, right right, Yeah, almost some kind

1535
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:31,679
Speaker 3: of Jedi sort of wisdom there.

1536
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:35,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also like the transformative nature of desire,

1537
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 2: like if I get the thing that I desire, does

1538
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: it change who I am? And yeah, does change who

1539
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 2: you are? And that's life.

1540
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,640
Speaker 3: So that night, Johnny and Maura go out listening to

1541
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 3: music on the beach and Maura begins to dance to

1542
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 3: the music. But in the middle of the performance, actually

1543
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 3: quick aside, there are a couple of moments in Maura's

1544
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 3: dance where it the dance as a whole is interesting

1545
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 3: and cool. But there is a moment where it looks

1546
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 3: like she's doing the robot. This seems very pre the

1547
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 3: invention of the robot as the robot.

1548
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, I don't know the full history on

1549
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 2: the robot. When the robot was fully unveiled as a

1550
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 2: dance move.

1551
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 3: I don't know either. But there's a couple of moves

1552
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 3: that look like the robot. It's very transient. But then

1553
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 3: while she's dancing in the middle of the performance, Johnny notices,

1554
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 3: standing at a distance on the rocks in the dark

1555
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 3: is the Sea Witch, the woman from the club, the

1556
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 3: woman who confronted Maura before. And so she's out on

1557
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 3: this rock and the wind is whipping at her silk

1558
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 3: veil and she's making these intense eyes at them, and

1559
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 3: the sea Witch appears to have some kind of power

1560
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 3: over Maura. Maura sees her and then gasps with terror

1561
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 3: and then collapses in the sand. Johnny goes to her

1562
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 3: and helps her up, and he asks it was that woman,

1563
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 3: wasn't it, And Mora says, what woman? More mystery is

1564
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 3: Maura hiding something? Is Maura not aware herself? We don't

1565
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 3: really know. After this, there is a scene where Johnny

1566
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 3: hangs out with Ellen, who works downstairs in the Merry

1567
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 3: Go Round, remember her, her grandfather, and their friend Madame Ramanovich,

1568
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 3: the fortune teller, though she does not like to be

1569
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 3: called that she's a chiromancer, so Madame Ramanovitch. This is

1570
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 3: the scene where she goes on a rand against tea

1571
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,679
Speaker 3: bags because she says, you know, if everyone was using

1572
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,320
Speaker 3: these bags, I'd never be able to read anybody's tea leaves.

1573
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 3: She also explains that she can read other people's fortunes,

1574
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 3: but not her own. In this scene, it's very obvious

1575
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 3: that Ellen is taken with Johnny. Like Johnny, She's kind

1576
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 3: of looking up at him like, oh, isn't he dreamy?

1577
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 3: But Johnny only has eyes for more. He seems to

1578
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 3: not even notice that Ellen is interested in him, and

1579
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 3: in this scene Johnny starts to get the first hints

1580
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 3: of danger. There is a visit from a police detective

1581
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 3: that leads to Ellen sharing gossip with Johnny, which is

1582
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 3: that Mora's last two boyfriends both died under mysterious circumstances.

1583
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 3: The line she says is a quote. In the past

1584
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 3: two years, Mora had two boyfriends and they're both dead

1585
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,760
Speaker 3: now They were both nice boys. They went with her,

1586
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 3: then suddenly they disappeared. A few days later, their bodies

1587
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 3: were found washed up on shore, drowned. Now there's no

1588
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 3: proof that Mara did anything wrong, but does seem suspicious,

1589
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 3: doesn't it like two boyfriends in a row, both disappeared

1590
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 3: and then showed up drowned. H and Ellen says, I

1591
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 3: bet she didn't tell you about those boys, did she?

1592
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 3: And no, she didn't tell him. Then the scene gets

1593
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 3: even more interesting. The payphone at the other end of

1594
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 3: the room rings. The old man answers it and then

1595
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 3: calls to Johnny says it's for him. Johnny says, that's

1596
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 3: funny because nobody knows I'm here. It's interesting. He goes

1597
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 3: to answer it, but there's nobody there on the phone.

1598
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 3: And then while he's standing at the phone, he looks

1599
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 3: out the window and he sees down below on the

1600
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 3: street the Sea Witch. She is walking briskly and she

1601
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 3: goes around the corner, so Johnny runs off to follow her,

1602
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,680
Speaker 3: and he's trying to figure out who this woman is

1603
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 3: and why she keeps bothering Moura. And this leads to

1604
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,719
Speaker 3: a very interesting sequence that this part to me felt

1605
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 3: like film noir, the part where Johnny is following her

1606
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 3: around town, going between these houses and over a wooden bridge,

1607
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 3: past the railroad, tracks, under electrical pylons, and eventually into

1608
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 3: this strange neighborhood that kind of looks like it's from

1609
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 3: a different world. I don't know exactly how to describe

1610
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 3: the weirdness of how this house looks, but they come

1611
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 3: to this old house with shuttered windows that seems like

1612
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 3: a kind of antique building. As Johnny goes around the corner,

1613
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 3: he sees there's a rocking chair on the porch that

1614
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 3: is rocking by itself with no one in it. Maybe

1615
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 3: it's just rocking in the wind. There's a child holding

1616
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 3: a doll standing in the road who doesn't speak, and

1617
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 3: Johnny asks her did you see a woman go by here?

1618
01:26:58,560 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 3: But the child just runs away.

1619
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's far off the boardwalk at this point for sure, totally.

1620
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 3: And then Johnny finally realizes this house it is the

1621
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 3: address that old Sam gave him, telling him to come

1622
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 3: visit sometime. So Johnny approaches the door, he knocks, and

1623
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 3: he goes in, and Sam is quite drunk and intent

1624
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 3: on getting drunker, but he says, oh, you know, Johnny,

1625
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 3: I'm glad you came. I've got something important to tell

1626
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 3: you about. He's very jovial at first, but then he

1627
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 3: starts to turn serious and he tells Johnny that he

1628
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 3: is in grave danger from Maura. At first, he's vague

1629
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 3: about it. He's talking about how Maura has a certain

1630
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:42,919
Speaker 3: compulsion which could put Johnny's life at risk, and Johnny's

1631
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 3: trying to understand what he's talking about. He's like, are

1632
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 3: you saying she's insane, that she's gonna hurt me? And

1633
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 3: he's like, well, you know, not exactly that she's insane,

1634
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 3: but take my word for it. You've got to break

1635
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,679
Speaker 3: off this acquaintance. And then he sends in a funny party,

1636
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 3: sends Johnny to get another bottle of liquor for him,

1637
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 3: and then starts telling telling the strange backstory behind a

1638
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 3: severed hand he's got on the shelf.

1639
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 2: I really love this bit with the severed hand because

1640
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 2: this is I mean, first of all, there's just like

1641
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 2: the idea that this guy's just getting ripped on just

1642
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 2: room temperature gin from the bottle. But then also to

1643
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:24,720
Speaker 2: the idea, like you quickly begin to realize Sam is

1644
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 2: he is a collector, and he's not just a collector.

1645
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 2: He's a collector of perhaps strange things or even dangerous things,

1646
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 2: which we get from this hand that he has bottled

1647
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:38,680
Speaker 2: up there and preserved in the cabinet.

1648
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 3: A hand in a jar that I think, he says,

1649
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 3: was given to him as a gift by the ruler

1650
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 3: from some other nation who I think it was cut

1651
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:50,600
Speaker 3: from a thief. Yeah so Sam, But anyway, eventually he

1652
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 3: gets around to the issue of Mara again. Sam says

1653
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 3: to Johnny, you've read the Greek myths, haven't you. Johnny

1654
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:02,560
Speaker 3: has not. Sam asks Johnny if he's heard about the Sirens.

1655
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 3: Johnny's like, maybe, sort of. Sam says the Sirens were

1656
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:11,719
Speaker 3: a strange race of sea people, half human, half creatures

1657
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 3: of the sea. The female of the species were known

1658
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 3: popularly as mermaids, women of the Sea. And then he

1659
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 3: goes on to explain that the show they run on

1660
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 3: the Pier where they have Maura as the mermaid is

1661
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 3: a fake. It's an illusion. He says. You wouldn't believe

1662
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 3: mermaids actually exist, would you. Johnny says no, he wouldn't

1663
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 3: believe that. Then Sam says, let me tell you, young man,

1664
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 3: that things happen in this world never dreamt of in

1665
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 3: your philosophy? Where do you think myths come from? Do

1666
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 3: you think they're just made up? No? They spring from truth,

1667
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 3: ancient truth, living truth. Then, as he's getting drunker, Sam

1668
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 3: he continues to talk, but he starts to become a

1669
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,719
Speaker 3: little less coherent and a little more kind of rambling

1670
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 3: into different subjects. He starts saying, Maura, she lived with.

1671
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,880
Speaker 3: That was her room up there behind that door. I

1672
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 3: found her on an island, but I didn't know what

1673
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 3: she was to become. I didn't know she belonged to

1674
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:11,040
Speaker 3: that ancient race. She's a monster. I warned you. That's

1675
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 3: all I can do. And he starts to pass out,

1676
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 3: but Johnny's trying to get the information. It's like, wait

1677
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 3: a minute, what about that woman who's been following Mara?

1678
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 3: Does she live here? I saw her come here? And

1679
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:25,280
Speaker 3: Sam says, there isn't any woman. I'm all alone. Then

1680
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 3: he passes out completely and Johnny climbs the stairs to

1681
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 3: see Mora's old room and inside it's decorated like her

1682
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 3: apartment with the sea stars and the shells. But this

1683
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 3: window is hanging ominously open, with the wind rushing in

1684
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 3: from the outside, blowing the curtains. Nothing really happens here,

1685
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 3: but it's fabulously spooky.

1686
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost a sense of cosmic horror, you know, like

1687
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 2: trying to like discovering the sort of terrestrial like homeye

1688
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 2: origin of Maura. But there's much more beyond that. It

1689
01:30:57,439 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 2: just seems to like open up into the greater world,

1690
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 2: even the void. Yeah.

1691
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 3: So, eventually Johnny confronts Mara about what Sam said to him,

1692
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 3: and her reaction is so strange. Mora says, no, she

1693
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 3: did not hurt her previous boyfriends, but she also says,

1694
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 3: it's true they're waiting for me to join them. So

1695
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 3: she actually believes the part about her being one of

1696
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,840
Speaker 3: the people of the sea. She thinks that she must

1697
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 3: belong to the sirens in some way and they are

1698
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 3: calling to her. Johnny tells her he doesn't believe it.

1699
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 3: He's like, that can't be true. You're confused about that,

1700
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 3: And Moras says to Johnny, quote, you Americans have such

1701
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:41,839
Speaker 3: a simple view of the world. You think that everything

1702
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 3: can be seen and touched and weighed and measured. You

1703
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 3: think you discovered reality, but you don't even know what

1704
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 3: it is. And Johnny asks Okay, if it's true that

1705
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 3: you're one of the people of the sea, how do

1706
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,920
Speaker 3: you know? And then Mora says, and I love this part,

1707
01:31:57,000 --> 01:31:59,799
Speaker 3: she says, because I feel the sea water in my veins,

1708
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 3: because I listened to the roar of the sea, and

1709
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,400
Speaker 3: it speaks to me like a mother's voice. The tide

1710
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 3: pulls at my heart. The face of the moon fills

1711
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 3: my soul with a strange longing. So I think we

1712
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:14,639
Speaker 3: can step back and be a little more summary about

1713
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 3: the rest of the movie. You know, this is a

1714
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:19,439
Speaker 3: little past the halfway point here, but for the rest

1715
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:23,080
Speaker 3: of the story, Johnny is really in a difficult position

1716
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 3: where he I feel like for Johnny it would be

1717
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 3: he's not so afraid of Maura because part of him

1718
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 3: trusts her, but he's really so like if it had

1719
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,080
Speaker 3: just been Sam and the other people warning him, like

1720
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:41,480
Speaker 3: her previous boyfriend's disappeared, you know, you got to protect yourself,

1721
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:44,760
Speaker 3: that would be one thing. He could probably ignore that,

1722
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 3: But I feel like he's really shaken by the fact

1723
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 3: that Mora seems to believe it herself, and he doesn't

1724
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 3: know how to deal with this.

1725
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, in very much a sense that he is perhaps

1726
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 2: over his head at least, I don't know. If not emotionally,

1727
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:03,679
Speaker 2: then it just we're I guess we're we're we've entered

1728
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 2: a complex phase of the relationship, definitely. It's a it's

1729
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 2: complicated level of the relationship here.

1730
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. So there is a scene where Johnny's trying to

1731
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 3: understand what happens, and he goes to visit Madame Madame Romanovitch,

1732
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:20,640
Speaker 3: the tarot reader, and he gets a reading where she

1733
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 3: warns him of many different kinds of different dangers. I

1734
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 3: don't remember everything exactly, she says, but she explains the

1735
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 3: whole like they do a full explanation of like the

1736
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 3: tarot layout. You know, here's what's here, here's what's across you,

1737
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 3: here's what's behind in front of you. Remember, the hanged

1738
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:38,839
Speaker 3: man plays a significant role.

1739
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 2: And she mentioned something we mentioned before on the show.

1740
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 2: I think that the hanged man is a it comes

1741
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 2: from a place of serenity and wisdom and so forth.

1742
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 2: So she's yeah, the tarot sequence, and I'm no expert

1743
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 2: on taro. It feels very authentic and well well written out.

1744
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 3: There's also a scene later which I think is not

1745
01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 3: super significant to the plot, but it's just a scene

1746
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 3: where Johnny goes to a bathhouse and happens to run

1747
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 3: into Sam who's they're getting a massage later. Some reviewers

1748
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 3: have singled this out just because they read it as

1749
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 3: including intentional a sort of queer coded or homo erotic

1750
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 3: jokes in there, Like there's a joke about a masseewer

1751
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:17,599
Speaker 3: talking about like, oh, I'll pound you later.

1752
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this is often singled out, but it is

1753
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,680
Speaker 2: again not like super important to the plot, but it

1754
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 2: is also very well shot. You get the steam, oh yeah,

1755
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, and there's exposed flesh. It does create this. Yes,

1756
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 2: it has a fascinating vibe. So it is interesting to

1757
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 2: sort of like, you can't help but take this and

1758
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 2: to some degree sort of factor it into the film's

1759
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,879
Speaker 2: overall exploration of desire.

1760
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:48,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does definitely have effective spooky elements. But yeah,

1761
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,600
Speaker 3: I think also it seems people think that Harrington was

1762
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 3: just trying to get some in jokes in.

1763
01:34:53,400 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1764
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:06,160
Speaker 3: Now, there's there's a really freaky scene later on where

1765
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,680
Speaker 3: where Johnny comes home and he has a nightmare that

1766
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 3: he's like imagining kissing Maura, but then she's turning into

1767
01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 3: a mermaid, and then she goes even further and suddenly

1768
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,720
Speaker 3: he's having some kind of liaison with an octopus.

1769
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and it's pretty good. It's like, this is

1770
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 2: not like when Bella Lagosi wrestled that octopus. It looks

1771
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 2: looks creepy, and there's a lot of tension to it.

1772
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 2: A great nightmare slash dream sequence, to be sure, and

1773
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 2: certainly the most monstery this film gets.

1774
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also a scene where Johnny wakes up and

1775
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:41,680
Speaker 3: discovers Maura having stepped out of the bathtub and wandered

1776
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:44,719
Speaker 3: out of the apartment in the night, and he follows

1777
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:46,800
Speaker 3: her wet footsteps on the ground trying to figure out

1778
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 3: what's going on, and she's like down under the pier,

1779
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,880
Speaker 3: having gone walking into the water, and now she's up

1780
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 3: out in.

1781
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,000
Speaker 2: The waves coming in.

1782
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, so it's a frightening scene and so like

1783
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 3: you can tell they're both overwhelmed. They don't really understand

1784
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:05,799
Speaker 3: what's going on. Johnny doesn't fully believe that she's a siren,

1785
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 3: but maybe he doesn't know what to believe.

1786
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 2: So much of this too, though, it just feels so

1787
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 2: authentic to like what it's like to like you enter

1788
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 2: into some sort of early relationship and you reach that

1789
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:20,599
Speaker 2: point where you have to realize that the other person

1790
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:24,960
Speaker 2: is indeed another person that's pulled by their own different

1791
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:29,480
Speaker 2: motivations and desires and things within and outside of their control,

1792
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 2: and the overwhelming feeling you might get from that, you know.

1793
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 2: So there's so much of this film that just works

1794
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 2: on a very relatable level without even getting into the

1795
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 2: heavier stuff.

1796
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 3: That's true, You're right like that. I think a lot

1797
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 3: of people have this early realization. It's like the first

1798
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 3: time it ever happens to them in their life that

1799
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 3: they realize, oh, you're dating somebody, and it's like either

1800
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:56,679
Speaker 3: their problems are also your problems or you just can't

1801
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:02,760
Speaker 3: stay together, like and you know, like you gotta yeah,

1802
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:06,679
Speaker 3: and so so clearly something like that is going on there,

1803
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 3: and he's Johnny is he does He's not doing this

1804
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 3: from a malicious place, but he's also like he doesn't

1805
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:16,719
Speaker 3: know how to process this stuff. So like a couple

1806
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 3: of times he's just trying to get her to forget

1807
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:20,519
Speaker 3: all about it and move on.

1808
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 2: He's not getting a lot of great help from anyone

1809
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,679
Speaker 2: else either, to be clear, Like other people have been like, hey,

1810
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 2: I think she might be a murderer, might want to

1811
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 2: be careful about that relationship, you know, including her father.

1812
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 2: So you know, he's I feel like, in a way,

1813
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:37,479
Speaker 2: he's doing the best he can with like zero support

1814
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 2: from you know, other humans outside of the relationship.

1815
01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 3: That's right. But eventually we get to a climactic scene

1816
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:48,080
Speaker 3: where she decides that she needs to go out diving.

1817
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 3: She wants to go out scuba diving, and she wants

1818
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:53,720
Speaker 3: Johnny to come with her, and so there will be

1819
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 3: a big twist coming here. They go out on a

1820
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,080
Speaker 3: boat and they swim down to a reef and while

1821
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:02,479
Speaker 3: they are under the water, Johnny is looking at something

1822
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 3: on the reef. He's got his mask on and he's

1823
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 3: got his breathing apparatus, and Maura comes up behind him

1824
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:11,879
Speaker 3: with a knife and she's menacing him with this knife.

1825
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 3: Now she doesn't kill him. It seems maybe she's meaning

1826
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 3: to do something, but she stops herself or I think

1827
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:24,040
Speaker 3: she does, like his breathing hose gets cut or disconnected

1828
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:26,559
Speaker 3: in some way. Yeah, And I think I couldn't tell exactly,

1829
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 3: like does she cut his breathing hose?

1830
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 2: That's what I took from it. Yeah, I think the

1831
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:33,320
Speaker 2: scenario is they go out to go scuba diving, and

1832
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:35,479
Speaker 2: he's already like, do we really need to go that

1833
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 2: deep to see some neat stuff? You know, which I

1834
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:40,800
Speaker 2: think is a reasonable question to ask. And she's like,

1835
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 2: oh no, there's the beautiful stuff down there. So they

1836
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 2: go down there. She cuts the air hose and then

1837
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:48,200
Speaker 2: that forces him back up. This kind of like forcing

1838
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 2: this separation between the two of them. You can see

1839
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:53,080
Speaker 2: a sort of like two fold like sort of like

1840
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 2: pushing him beyond his boundaries in an attempt to force

1841
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 2: him away from her, and then like then being more

1842
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 2: direct with it, you know, this is where I belong,

1843
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,719
Speaker 2: this is not where you belong, and pushing him away.

1844
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 3: She has to stay below and he stays above so

1845
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 3: she doesn't stab him. So you see, you could interpret

1846
01:39:10,479 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 3: it different ways. What happens there when she cuts his hose,

1847
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:15,800
Speaker 3: Like yeah, but he goes he has to swim back

1848
01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 3: up to the boat and then he's in the boat

1849
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 3: and so he's like she coming up? Is she gonna

1850
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 3: he can't go back down because his hose doesn't work anymore? Uh,

1851
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 3: And then she never comes up. So what has happened

1852
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 3: to her? I think her fate is ambiguous for a

1853
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 3: time until Johnny goes after he gets back to shore,

1854
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 3: he goes back to the Mermaid House, the attraction on

1855
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:44,559
Speaker 3: the pier and haunting, a terrifying scene. He goes inside

1856
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 3: and finds her body dead in the mermaid display.

1857
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:50,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was already presented kind of like a corpse

1858
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 2: under there anyway, and now it seems that she is

1859
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 2: indeed a corpse beneath the glass. And this leads to

1860
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:03,519
Speaker 2: just a phenomenal scene, great drama, great symbolism, building on

1861
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:07,400
Speaker 2: these ideas of alienation and uh yeah, the exhibit is

1862
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,040
Speaker 2: is now, you know, not merely a prison at all,

1863
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:13,600
Speaker 2: but also a tomb. And Sam here confronts him with

1864
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:16,160
Speaker 2: a gun, and so here we get into some like

1865
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 2: some real tension and some confrontation.

1866
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:21,479
Speaker 3: That's right. I didn't make this connection when I was

1867
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 3: watching it, actually, but when you said that this prison

1868
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 3: the tank has become a tomb, it reminded me of

1869
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:29,639
Speaker 3: like actual glass coffins in the world, like the tomb

1870
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 3: of Linen or whatever, you know, or people go up

1871
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 3: and look at a body preserved.

1872
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 2: In beauty even yeah, yeah, or snow white. Which one

1873
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,600
Speaker 2: is it that ye bites the apple? Yeah, and is

1874
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:41,479
Speaker 2: under sometimes depicted as being under class.

1875
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, Yeah, so he goes and looks and

1876
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:47,759
Speaker 3: Johnny is distraught but also distraught. Now, yes, is Sam

1877
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 3: the father who comes in with a gun?

1878
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 2: He can you killed her? Yes?

1879
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:56,640
Speaker 3: Yes, uh, And there's this confrontation. He begins shooting, but

1880
01:40:56,680 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 3: there's a struggle, and eventually the police arrive, Like there's

1881
01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 3: some policemen outside, they hear the shooting. They come inside

1882
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:06,120
Speaker 3: and Sam is arrested, and that leads into kind of

1883
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 3: like the Alfred Hitchcock movie Psycho, we get a post

1884
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:14,400
Speaker 3: arrest kind of explanation scene, except in this movie it

1885
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:20,839
Speaker 3: comes directly from Sam himself, who confesses and explains what happened.

1886
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:27,040
Speaker 3: So his confession is essentially that as he grew up

1887
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 3: raising Mora, and as much as she needed him initially

1888
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 3: he was a father figure to her, he realizes also

1889
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 3: that he needs her and it was one of those

1890
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:41,800
Speaker 3: cases where he just really couldn't accept that she was

1891
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 3: going to have to grow up and live her own

1892
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 3: life and live her life separate from him, and I

1893
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 3: think he just wanted to continue always being her father

1894
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 3: and sort of being the only person in her life

1895
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:57,840
Speaker 3: and her being the person in his life, and so

1896
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:02,400
Speaker 3: he decided, as a way of sabotage all other future relationships,

1897
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:05,240
Speaker 3: that he was going to implant this idea on her

1898
01:42:05,680 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 3: that she was one of the sea.

1899
01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 2: People, and so he essentially like raised her to have

1900
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:15,040
Speaker 2: this strange worldview where she sees herself as a mermaid

1901
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 2: whose bound return to the sea and can never have

1902
01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 2: like a no true human love, that sort of thing,

1903
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 2: which is, you know, pretty monstrous. But then he also

1904
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 2: has he confesses that he killed her two previous boyfriends

1905
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 2: as well, so that that was him as well. So

1906
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:35,120
Speaker 2: he does get Johnny off the hook for that, but yeah,

1907
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 2: confesses to those murders.

1908
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:41,680
Speaker 3: But there's a twist. He confesses to all that, and

1909
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 3: so Johnny's like, so, who was the woman that you

1910
01:42:44,080 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 3: had as part of this scheme?

1911
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Johnny's present for this scene as well, So don't

1912
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:50,360
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how much how realistic this

1913
01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 2: is in terms of police work, but you know works dramatically.

1914
01:42:53,439 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 3: Who was the woman that you had pretending to be

1915
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:58,720
Speaker 3: the queen of the Sirens, the sea witch that was

1916
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:02,360
Speaker 3: calling her back to the And Sam's like, there wasn't

1917
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:05,560
Speaker 3: any woman. Now, the police try to explain that to

1918
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:07,880
Speaker 3: Johnny they're like, don't worry about the Johnny. He's just

1919
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 3: protecting his accomplices. You know, we'll figure out who his

1920
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 3: accomplices were eventually. But I think it's the audience were

1921
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,880
Speaker 3: there to wonder like who was that?

1922
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 2: Really?

1923
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 3: Is human accomplice or is there something else going on,

1924
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:23,880
Speaker 3: Like are we actually getting the full story now through

1925
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 3: this confession or is that some kind of misdirection too.

1926
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got the impression that this is left here

1927
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 2: to leave the hatch open for the mystery, so that

1928
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 2: even though we have had this almost kind of like

1929
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 2: Scooby doing moment here where the killer's mask is revealed

1930
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 2: and he fesses up to everything, but this one thing

1931
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:47,000
Speaker 2: cannot be explained, and by not being able to explain

1932
01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 2: the mystery woman, it leaves open the possibility that, yes,

1933
01:43:50,200 --> 01:43:52,719
Speaker 2: maybe she was actually one of the sea people, maybe

1934
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 2: she was bound to return to the sea, and leaving

1935
01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:01,400
Speaker 2: all of these dreamlike and mysterious supernatural aspects of the

1936
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 2: film very much in play, because I think it would

1937
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 2: that have would have been disappointing if we'd reached the

1938
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:10,640
Speaker 2: end and everything that felt dreamlike and superstitious was just

1939
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:14,200
Speaker 2: completely explained away, just completely Scooby Dude at the end.

1940
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 2: This way we keep that mystery alive.

1941
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:21,639
Speaker 3: I agree. I like it that some questions are left unanswered.

1942
01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 3: I mean I tend to like endings like that. I

1943
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:26,439
Speaker 3: know some people get very annoyed when there are questions

1944
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:28,799
Speaker 3: that are left unanswered at the end, but I almost

1945
01:44:28,840 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 3: always prefer that as long as it doesn't feel like

1946
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:35,480
Speaker 3: you're just getting jerked around to no kind of planned resolution.

1947
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 3: You know, you want some important resolution but also some

1948
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:41,599
Speaker 3: mystery to remain. That's kind of my sweet spot.

1949
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, give me something to think about and contemplate later on.

1950
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:46,799
Speaker 3: But you know, I think it's not just the presence

1951
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:50,440
Speaker 3: of the Sea Witch that leaves some things kind of mysterious.

1952
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 3: I do think we're still to wonder like what explained,

1953
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 3: Like why did Mourra cut Johnny's air hose, Like what

1954
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 3: exactly was happening there? Her understanding of what she was

1955
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 3: doing there? Yeah, I don't know. I think I think

1956
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:08,840
Speaker 3: there are other tensions. But then, as we've mentioned, uh,

1957
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 3: you know, throughout there is this other character Ellen who

1958
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:15,720
Speaker 3: kind of appears there at the end and is like,

1959
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:19,160
Speaker 3: you know, he just making her presence known, Like, Hey, Johnny,

1960
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:20,040
Speaker 3: I'm still around.

1961
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hear your single. Now, so, hey, do

1962
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:26,840
Speaker 2: you want to get you a coke float sometime or something?

1963
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:30,599
Speaker 2: And yeah, so we get the sense that they are

1964
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:34,599
Speaker 2: going to begin a relationship. Now, is it a true

1965
01:45:34,600 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 2: happy ending sort of scenario here, I don't. I don't

1966
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:40,640
Speaker 2: know that that's necessarily the case. There seems to be

1967
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 2: a compromise here, and you know, his his true desire

1968
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:47,360
Speaker 2: and his true love has has been lost, and this

1969
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 2: is very much, very much a diversion. Yeah.

1970
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't see it as a happy ending. I

1971
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:56,920
Speaker 3: see clearly like we have established Sam as the villain

1972
01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:00,680
Speaker 3: of the story, a complicated villain, but the villain of

1973
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:03,040
Speaker 3: the story behind all of the loss and the suffering

1974
01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:05,519
Speaker 3: and the manipulation of Mora that led to her death.

1975
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,439
Speaker 3: But despite the fact that the villain has been caught

1976
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 3: and has confessed, it still doesn't feel resolved, if that

1977
01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:12,719
Speaker 3: makes sense.

1978
01:46:13,120 --> 01:46:16,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and that the air of tragedy remains.

1979
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:22,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, Well that was Curtis Harrington's Night Tide. I

1980
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:24,800
Speaker 3: stand up for this one. I think this is a

1981
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:29,040
Speaker 3: really interesting, really cool movie. Gives you a Dennis Hopper

1982
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:31,800
Speaker 3: unliked any Dennis Hopper I'd ever seen before. I like

1983
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:35,080
Speaker 3: the acting across the board really, Linda Lawson is great,

1984
01:46:35,479 --> 01:46:39,520
Speaker 3: a strong script, a good good directing hand by Harrington

1985
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,639
Speaker 3: makes me want to read Harrington's book. And yeah, bravo,

1986
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:45,439
Speaker 3: bravo do all involved. I liked it.

1987
01:46:45,720 --> 01:46:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely definitely worth checking out. All right, we're going

1988
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:53,080
Speaker 2: to go and close out this episode of Weird House Cinema.

1989
01:46:53,120 --> 01:46:55,360
Speaker 2: But we'll just remind everyone out there that Stuffed to

1990
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:57,599
Speaker 2: Bow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast

1991
01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:59,839
Speaker 2: with core episodes and Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays,

1992
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,080
Speaker 2: with set aside most serious concerns to just talk about

1993
01:47:02,120 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 2: a weird film here on Weird House Cinema.

1994
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 3: If you run.

1995
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,559
Speaker 2: Letterbox dot com, look us up there, we're Weird House.

1996
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:11,120
Speaker 2: We have a nice list of all the movies that

1997
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:13,160
Speaker 2: we've covered over the years there and sometimes a peek

1998
01:47:13,160 --> 01:47:16,120
Speaker 2: ahead at what comes next and wherever you happen to

1999
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:18,479
Speaker 2: listen to this show or watch this show, because if

2000
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 2: you're on Netflix you get to get the video portion

2001
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 2: as well. However, you're taking us in, we just asked

2002
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,720
Speaker 2: that you rate, review, subscribe, give us a thumb up,

2003
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 2: give us two thumbs up, ask to be reminded on

2004
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 2: the Netflix platform so that you get more episodes in

2005
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:34,040
Speaker 2: your future. All of these are things you can do

2006
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 2: to help us out, and we appreciate it.

2007
01:47:35,960 --> 01:47:39,680
Speaker 3: Here's thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

2008
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:41,439
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

2009
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

2010
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:45,800
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

2011
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:48,240
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

2012
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

2013
01:47:56,120 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

2014
01:47:59,160 --> 01:48:03,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2015
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:04,839
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.