1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, you'll never believe it.

2
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 1: She stalks her boyfriend, an up and coming lawyer, until

3
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,319
Speaker 1: she practically drives him crazy. Then she goes over the

4
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,280
Speaker 1: edge in a jealous rage when he has a date

5
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 1: with Miss Ohio. So what does she do? Shoot him dead?

6
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm talking about Shana Hubers, the Kentucky woman

7
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,520
Speaker 1: who shot her boyfriend in the face when he refused

8
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,160
Speaker 1: to cancel a date with a pageant queen. Well, she's

9
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: back in the headlines. Just wait till you hear this.

10
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

11
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: being with us. That's right. Shana Heubers sentenced to life

12
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 1: behind after a jury convicted her of murdering her on

13
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,399
Speaker 1: and off again boyfriend, the up and coming lawyer. I

14
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,759
Speaker 1: told you about Ryan Postin. Remember they were officially dating

15
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: other people when she shot him dead in a jealous rage.

16
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:22,560
Speaker 1: It sounds so much like Jody Arius. Well anyway, get this,

17
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:31,640
Speaker 1: Shana Hubers is on the hunt for a new man.

18
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 1: That's right after shooting the boyfriend just point blank right

19
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 1: in the face, right in the face, and then commenting,

20
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 1: I finally gave him the nose job he always wanted

21
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: with a bullet, woman with a bullet. Now she's on

22
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 1: the prowl for a new man. Men, beware, these are

23
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,040
Speaker 1: her words, not mine. Quote. I have grown much since

24
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: the twenty one year old girl I was in October

25
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: twenty twelve at the time of my arrest, not as

26
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 1: she says, my arrest, not when I murdered my boyfriend

27
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: as he tried desperately to get away from me. Quote.

28
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking for someone who won't judge me by my past,

29
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: but by the woman I've become. Okay. She apparently posted

30
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: this on write a prisoner to connect with pen pals

31
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: outside of jail. Okay, man, you love lorn folks. Don't

32
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 1: say I didn't warn you, because let me refresh your

33
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: recollection on Miss Shana Heabers and what happened.

34
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:51,519
Speaker 2: Kelly on one ma'am, I haven't I've done I killed

35
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,119
Speaker 2: my boyfriend and self refer hey, wear you up, I'm

36
00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:02,399
Speaker 2: not well, Not Olaine for when I was seven seconds

37
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 2: a twelve medal?

38
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:03,359
Speaker 3: Lane.

39
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 2: Are you in a house an apartment? There a cool apartment?

40
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 2: It's apartments weekend? Is it meadow? Anything else? Mead of

41
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 2: you or something? No meal?

42
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: Lane?

43
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, tell me again. Tell me again what

44
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,640
Speaker 2: unit you're in. It's not showing on my computer. Okay,

45
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: you're a twelve medal Laane younit number said? Okay, hold on,

46
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,880
Speaker 2: hold on? What did you kill him with? Got alone

47
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 2: gun in the house? You can tell me where the

48
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 2: gun is? Right now? My gun is in the hell?

49
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 2: Where at? So man, tell me where it's at? Laid

50
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 2: on the bookshelf. We're at laid on the shelf on

51
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 2: the bookself, it's where are you?

52
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm okay, you know I get Harley hold back there.

53
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: I would just play just that one minute and seven

54
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 1: seconds over and over and over for the jury, and

55
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. She's already setting up a defense.

56
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: I shot my boyfriend in self defense. Who says that?

57
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: Who says that? When you're quote ten feet from the

58
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,839
Speaker 1: dead body, Not Ryan Postin, not my boyfriend, not my lover,

59
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,400
Speaker 1: not the light of my life. He is now suddenly

60
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 1: quote the dead body. She knows the address, she knows

61
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,839
Speaker 1: the location, she knows the zip code. This lady A

62
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,039
Speaker 1: is setting up a defense, giving way too much information

63
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,760
Speaker 1: for the defense taste, and showing she had already disassociated

64
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 1: from the boyfriend she shot dead, and she is by

65
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 1: far from insane. She's crazy. She's crazy like a Fox. Again,

66
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

67
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,159
Speaker 1: in series XEM one to eleven. Let me introduce you

68
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: an all star panel. First of all, you know her well,

69
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: Francy Haikes, former federal prosecute and get this podcast. Best case,

70
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,720
Speaker 1: worst case doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us from

71
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,479
Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. Boy, do we need a shrink? Death

72
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 1: Investigator Professor Forensis Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

73
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 1: My Feet. But first to Emmy Award winning investigative reporter

74
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,799
Speaker 1: Christy Massourich, who's a voice? Am I hearing?

75
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 2: Well?

76
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 4: You're hearing the voice of Sheena Hubers, who sounds very

77
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 4: distraught after opening fire on her boyfriend Ryan nste Massourich.

78
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: I know that you're the Emmy Award winning investigative reporter,

79
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 1: but let me enjoy the moment. The one time I've

80
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 1: ever gotten to correct you. She wasn't upset until she

81
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,320
Speaker 1: got through her first script. Then I heard that was

82
00:05:54,320 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 1: about okay, perfectly halfway through. Then there was a little cry,

83
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: a little peep, squeal of being distraught. Guys, how did

84
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing get started? You're hearing the nine one

85
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,120
Speaker 1: one call, but let's back it up. Rewind listen to

86
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,359
Speaker 1: our friends at crime online.

87
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 3: Ryan Poston, a twenty eight year old Ohio attorney, meets

88
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 3: Shane O. Hubers on Facebook. The nineteen year old was

89
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 3: friends with Postin's step cousin, Carissa Carlyle. The pair hit

90
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,840
Speaker 3: it off and begin dating. Hubers is studying psychology at

91
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 3: the University of Kentucky in Lexington. She graduates cum laude,

92
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 3: pursuing a master's degree in school counseling. They date for

93
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 3: about eighteen months, but the relationship is anything but smooth.

94
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,960
Speaker 3: The couple reportedly break up several times.

95
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: The whole breakup to make up, Jackie here in the

96
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,640
Speaker 1: cdo was pointing out that she learned something or observed

97
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,679
Speaker 1: something in that nine one one call. In the first

98
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,159
Speaker 1: couple of seconds, she says, a loaded gun. I shine,

99
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: with a loaded gun. How does she know it is

100
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,600
Speaker 1: totally loaded? Loaded means all the bullets are the cylinders.

101
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 1: I think, how does she know unless she checked it

102
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 1: or loaded it herself. But of course I'm putting the

103
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: cart before the horse. Let's take a listen to more

104
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 1: about the relationship.

105
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 3: Unsatisfied in his relationship with Huber's postin tells a cousin

106
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 3: that he plans for a first date with another woman,

107
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 3: Miss Ohio USA Audrey Bolt. The pair connected on Facebook

108
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 3: and had been corresponding for some time. Bolt says she

109
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 3: found posting smart and funny. Based on her Facebook interactions

110
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 3: with him. They begin direct messaging plans to meet at

111
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,119
Speaker 3: a Milford, Ohio bar for drinks and maybe to play pool.

112
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: So that's where the beauty queen comes into this scenario,

113
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: Miss Ohio USA Audrey Bolt, who has advised that she

114
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: wants it very clear she was not the dead victim's

115
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. They were meeting up for a first date.

116
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: Now that's certainly coincidental, is it not?

117
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 5: To you?

118
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. I know you're all about

119
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: fingerprints and hair fibers and autopsy reports, but I still

120
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: like the good old hunch, the deduction, the using the

121
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 1: gray cells. You want to tell me it's a coinky

122
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: dink that he's got his first date with Miss Ohio

123
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 1: and then suddenly she shoots him dead.

124
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,360
Speaker 6: Hell hath no fury?

125
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you never get try of saying that to you.

126
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:44,559
Speaker 6: Joseph, I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you. Yeah,

127
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 6: you're asking for trouble man.

128
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 1: You're darn rise will make me mad, give me an answer.

129
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, Hey, look, uh, it stands to reason that if

130
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 6: you're involved with somebody else and you've had a volatile relationship,

131
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,319
Speaker 6: there are traumatized over the scene. You're saying you want

132
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 6: to break it off, and then not only do you

133
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 6: just go out and date somebody, You're going to go

134
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 6: out and you're going to date a Miss America contestant.

135
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it Miss Usa?

136
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 6: Oh?

137
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Ohio goes into that. Miss Ohio goes into

138
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 1: Miss USA as opposed to Miss There's a very subtle

139
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,720
Speaker 1: but important distinction. Okay, and again, it's not a beauty pageant.

140
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: It's a scholarship. It's a scholarship. Okay. Can any of

141
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,480
Speaker 1: you people see Sandra Bullock in this congeniality for Pete's sake? Okay,

142
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 1: back to you.

143
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Hey, yeah, and so yeah, this is gonna

144
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,079
Speaker 6: this is listen. Most you know, Nancy, you and I

145
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 6: have worked together a long time. Most of the cases

146
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 6: that we involved that are very very violent. They're not

147
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 6: some stranger just coming at you out out of a

148
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 6: dark alley, are they. Most of these things have come

149
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,720
Speaker 6: some kind of domestic connection many times, particularly those that

150
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 6: are just loaded with a lot of violence, which in

151
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 6: this particular case, it was you have passion that's involved

152
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 6: in this. You have a lot of anger, and boy

153
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,560
Speaker 6: did she take it out on him.

154
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 1: This woman gives an all new meaning to snakes in

155
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 1: her head crime stories with Nancy Grace. Quote, I am

156
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: a tall san brunette standing five to nine, one hundred

157
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: and fifteen pounds, with lots of long wavy golden brown hair,

158
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: big steel blue dough eyes, and a wide, bright smile

159
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 1: on a heart shaped face. Okay, that's sirr not me.

160
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 1: Let me just take this in. I'm a tall than

161
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 1: brunette five nine, one hundred and fifteen pounds Number one,

162
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 1: she needs to eat some more, with lots of long

163
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 1: wavy gold brown hair, big steel blue doe eyes, and

164
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 1: a wide, bright smile on a heart shaped face. Okay,

165
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: As if that's not enough, this is what she says next.

166
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 1: No one really knows or can explain what I've been

167
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:22,679
Speaker 1: through besides me, me me me, me, me me, it's

168
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,439
Speaker 1: about who me Shana Hubers again, forget the dead boyfriend

169
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 1: and her family just oh grief stricken after their golden

170
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,920
Speaker 1: boy a shot dead. Well, Hubers is apparently holding out

171
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 1: hope she will soon be a free woman, hitting out

172
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: at false conviction theories and arguing her case was used

173
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,600
Speaker 1: to obtain TV ratings. My she certainly thinks a lot

174
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 1: of herself. What like she's going to rape better than

175
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:59,720
Speaker 1: what American idol or I just these people what is

176
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,560
Speaker 1: going on in their head? Luckily the state doesn't have

177
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 1: to prove the motive. Who wants to go and sign

178
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,679
Speaker 1: her head and figure it all out? Do you think

179
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 1: it's a coincidence? Francy Haigesen, He's trying to get ready

180
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: to go out on this date and up comes Shana. Heabs,

181
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 1: of course not.

182
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,560
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy. On America's Most Wanted, which we both covered,

183
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,199
Speaker 5: there was a case where the girlfriend who killed her

184
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,479
Speaker 5: boyfriend had cloned his phone so that she could intercept

185
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 5: and even.

186
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:32,320
Speaker 1: Low down, slow down, missy, you got to say that

187
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 1: very slowly, for you know, I've just got a JD.

188
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 1: I didn't get my master's at MIT. So explain to

189
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 1: me and to everybody listening what it means to actually

190
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,960
Speaker 1: clone someone's phone. And let's just say that takes a

191
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: lot of gumption to go that far to clone a phone.

192
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,439
Speaker 1: I've told you this own of times, Francy. I tried

193
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 1: to read my husband's email one time, and it was

194
00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 1: so boring. My eyes were bad, it was terrible. Never again.

195
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 1: I found out nothing. There was nothing to find out,

196
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 1: so I haven't wasted my time doing that again. If

197
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 1: you've got hey tip, if you've got a clone your

198
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: boyfriend or girlfriend's phone, you need to break up immediately

199
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: and date somebody else or go to therapy. Okay, Brank,

200
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,320
Speaker 1: everybody listening, How do you clone a phone? This is great, jaculous, simple, Nancy.

201
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 5: All you have to do is go to the internet

202
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 5: and get instructions. There are programs out there that allow

203
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 5: you as long as you have access to the boyfriend

204
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 5: or girlfriend's device. I don't I don't want to give

205
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 5: them programs away, but it's really easy to find with

206
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,600
Speaker 5: a quick five minute search on the internet, where you

207
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 5: can assign that phone to your own as if it

208
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 5: is your own, you can initiate text messages, you can

209
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 5: read the text messages that are coming and going from

210
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 5: your significant other's phone, And we covered a case like

211
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 5: that on America's Most Wanted. So it wouldn't shock me

212
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 5: to know that Shana had done the same thing or

213
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 5: just gotten his phone in the million times she was

214
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 5: in his apartment and wouldn't leave and he would go

215
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,559
Speaker 5: into a different room, I wouldn't be at all surprised

216
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 5: if she was monitoring his social media for example, how

217
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 5: hard would it be to get his Facebook password and

218
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 5: see that he's communicating with direct messages to miss Ohio, USA.

219
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 5: So that would not surprise me to learn at all.

220
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 1: And as I say my book, don't be a victim,

221
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: please beef up your passwords because it was probably she

222
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 1: hadn't a fish in a barrel for this woman who

223
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: was dead set on spying on her boyfriend, Ryan Post,

224
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 1: an up and coming lawyer. A probably used his DOB

225
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: or his social or his address or some connect concoction

226
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,720
Speaker 1: of the two to be maybe his bar ID number

227
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: to create a password. And he probably the same password

228
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: on every device and on every social media site. But

229
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 1: I guarantee you again, let's use our noggins for a

230
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: moment that she was spying on him and it hacked

231
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: into his accounts. This is why she hadn't been to

232
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 1: his home until the time of the shooting that day

233
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: that we know of, so getting ready for a date

234
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 1: that night. I don't think she went over there with

235
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 1: any other intention. Much like Jody Arius literally driving across

236
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 1: the desert to convince her boyfriend Travis Alexander not to

237
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 1: go on a trip with another woman, but to take

238
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: her instead. I think she went there with the intent

239
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: to talk him out of going on his date literally

240
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: with the beauty queen. Okay, now you know the background,

241
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that very telling nine

242
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: to one one call.

243
00:15:52,960 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 2: Okay, are you sure that he has said? And how

244
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 2: long ago did you shoot him? I don't know, not

245
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 2: even that long fifteen minutes ago. So yeah, okay, what's

246
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 2: your name? My name is Sana. I'm gonna tell you.

247
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. What does it again? Tell me a strata Miselle,

248
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 2: you Berne be yours? Okay, what's your name? Against Shane

249
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 2: or Sana Shane as they say in all right, Shane.

250
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm just having a hard time me, aren't you. Okay, Sorry,

251
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: you're gonna nail Listen, You're gonna stay on the line

252
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 2: with me. Okay, because this is what we're gonna do.

253
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 2: The officers don't want me to stay on the line

254
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 2: with you, so when you get when they get there,

255
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 2: they're gonna want to know where that gun is and

256
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,520
Speaker 2: we want you to get out safely too. Okay, Okay,

257
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 2: are they gonnas?

258
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: I heard a little chill in her voice something like

259
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: that when she was trying to tune up with tears again.

260
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Scott Morgan, I know that you're a

261
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: death investigator and you've been to literally thousands of homicide scenes.

262
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: But have you ever seen The Wizard of Oz where

263
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,040
Speaker 1: they call in the coroner. Did you hear her say

264
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: he's completely dead? And he's most completely dead? Remember how

265
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 1: the coroner reads off how the wicked witch? And I

266
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: guess that's oh, and she's My point is she's emphatic,

267
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 1: but she's not distraught. Oh he's dead, he's completely dead.

268
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 1: I would not expect that of a girlfriend that had

269
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 1: just shot someone she loves, even if it's in self defense,

270
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: even if it's an accident, you would expect emotion, not

271
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: oh he's completely dead, just the way she said that.

272
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know, when something like this happened, you

273
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 6: all of the senses are aroused. You know it's it's

274
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 6: and you're acutely aware she's standing there in this smoke,

275
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 6: nancy that that has. You know, she's inhalated this gun smoke.

276
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,439
Speaker 6: She's in there, and she may have heard sounds that

277
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 6: he was making as she shot him, as he tumbled

278
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,400
Speaker 6: to the floor. The sound itself, the gunshots are still

279
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 6: ringing in her ears. But yet, you know, the thing

280
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 6: about it is, it's not like she experiences this every day.

281
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 6: It's almost like she's prepared for it. And you don't

282
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 6: hear the same level of distress in her voice that

283
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 6: you would. You know, I've been on scenes and I've

284
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 6: talked to people that have shot other individuals, and there

285
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 6: sometimes they'll lapse into into moments of what we refer

286
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 6: to as kind of catatonia, where they're just blanked out

287
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 6: and they're staring off into the distance because it's such

288
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 6: a shocking event. If I was interviewing her, I have

289
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 6: a lot of questions because she has not rattled to

290
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 6: her core. She has very specific details about all of this,

291
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 6: and it rises and fall.

292
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 1: And to you, doctor Angela Arnold, I got a series

293
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,880
Speaker 1: of questions for you, but I know that people can

294
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: in fact disassociate with what's happening and have a period

295
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 1: of time that they really cannot remember that that's real.

296
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: It does happen. But doctor Angela Arnold Psychia is joining

297
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: us out of Atlanta. I want you to take a

298
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: listen to more of this. No, I'm on one call

299
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: and tell me what you here. Listen.

300
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 2: Okay, I gonna arrest me, ma'am. I don't know what

301
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: he'll do. We're gonna send send them out. I'm gonna

302
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 2: say mine with you. Okay, I mean, I'm not I

303
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 2: just know what what happened, exactly what happened at Turn

304
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 2: me out of the house and I can reac get

305
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 2: my brains. And he was and he raced down and

306
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 2: dropped the Okay, all right, do you need an ambulance?

307
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 2: Have you been injured? I'm not injured him. I was

308
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 2: thrown into the side of the house. Okay. And how

309
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: old is he? So many night? Will be thirty on

310
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: if you would have been thirty on December thirty? All right,

311
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 2: what's the name Ryan Carter posted? He's an attorney in Cincinnati. Okay,

312
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: you had a history of domestic silence with him? Yeah, okay,

313
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,160
Speaker 2: and is this your gun? No, this is his gun.

314
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: He keeps floating gun to the house.

315
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace quote, I've been through a

316
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,360
Speaker 1: heartbreaking journey, but I haven't given up on meeting someone true, loyal,

317
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: loving and respectful, non judgmental and devoted. Reality check, you

318
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: did meet that person. His name was Ryan Posten, and

319
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: you shot him dead. Now, while Shanna Huber's profile says

320
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: she's straight and looking to connect with a man, she

321
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:13,479
Speaker 1: did marry a transgender woman, Unique Tailor, Unique you n

322
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: iqu E Unique Tailor, and about a twenty second jail

323
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: house ceremony back in twenty eighteen. Now, Unique Tailor was

324
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: once Richard McBee, but more important was a repeat felony offender,

325
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: and the two Shana Hubers and Unique Tailor split seven

326
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: months after the jailhouse wedding, citing guess what irreconcilable differences? Well,

327
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what those differences may have been.

328
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: That said, how did we get here? How did Ryan

329
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: Posting an up and coming lawyer handsomely scrubbing sunshine? How

330
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 1: did he end up on the wrong end of a barrel?

331
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: Points that I would hammer to the jury. He was

332
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: beating me. But I came back in the house. So

333
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: she's not injured, not injured at all. I've looked at

334
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 1: her bookend photos. Not injured at all. But why would

335
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: you go back into the home if your your attacker

336
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: is in the home.

337
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 7: And Nancy, don't you think the nine to one one

338
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 7: operator did an amazing job.

339
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: Yes, I did.

340
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 7: Nine to one one operator was on it, wasn't.

341
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: She Oh man, if you think she's on it dog injury.

342
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 7: It dune in the house. And I mean everything was

343
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 7: so clear about what she said. Oh, I landed on

344
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 7: the couch. That's why I wasn't hurt when he was

345
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 7: beating me, because I landed on the couch.

346
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: Well, she goes into that explanation. Listen, so he's not.

347
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: Land into the couch. But you don't have any injury.

348
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: I don't have any injuries. I was very tightened. He

349
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 2: takes it a lot bigger than mere pounds.

350
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 5: On five.

351
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: And he and he takes me out and was hearing

352
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: me out of the house, and I said, let me

353
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 2: get my things at least if we're going to break up,

354
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 2: and he wouldn't let me get my things. And when

355
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: I reached around and tried to get my thing. He

356
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 2: I can hear myself actually in the background. Now it's

357
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: just a phone. So a phone so so has got

358
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: a delay. And he pushed me down from the door

359
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 2: all the way to the couch. When they come here

360
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: to feel far letters, he'screw me a casser room. And

361
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: and I was very sollow. I was laying on the floor. Okay,

362
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: all right, and I've killed him.

363
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: And now we hear a motivation emerging. Did you hear

364
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: the words break up, let's go to our cut six?

365
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry you said you shot him a couple

366
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: more times after that? Yeah? How many times did you

367
00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 2: shoot him?

368
00:23:59,400 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: Total?

369
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, okay, because he was twitching and he

370
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 2: knew he said die, So he shot him again, belching

371
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: from you shot him instead of calling nine one one?

372
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: What so instead of calling nine? When once she continues

373
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: to shoot him, well there's more listen, And I just.

374
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 8: Picked up the gun and in the middle of him

375
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 8: doing something with his arm or saying something crazy, shot

376
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 8: him And I thought, oh my god, what have I died?

377
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: You know?

378
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 8: And he was laying with his face on a table

379
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 8: like twitching, and so I knew he was gonna die

380
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 8: a very slow and painful and he was already dead.

381
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 8: You know, it would be in the next twenty seconds

382
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 8: to the next two minutes. And then he was said

383
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 8: he dead, and he was in a lot of pain.

384
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 8: His twitch and he is moaning, but he was ultimately dead.

385
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 2: And so I shot him.

386
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 8: Enough time to kill him so that he wouldn't suffer.

387
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Francy Haiges from her federal prosecutor jump in, Yeah.

388
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 5: Nancy, I killed him so he wouldn't suffer. I killed

389
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 5: him because I thought he was coming at me. I

390
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 5: killed him because I was terrified of him. I killed

391
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 5: him because he was twitching. I killed him because I

392
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 5: didn't want him to suffer. But he was going to

393
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 5: die a slow and painful death. And oh, by the way,

394
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 5: I knew we only had about twenty seconds to go.

395
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 5: She's all over the place. This is so inconsistent. Within

396
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 5: about a minute and a half, Nancy, that a prosecutor

397
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 5: is going to have a field day with this case.

398
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 5: And I bet you, like me, would love to be

399
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 5: in the room giving clothing arguments on this one.

400
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 2: Man.

401
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: You're not kidding, godra Angela Arnold, listen to this.

402
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 9: At that point, which would have a few more times,

403
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 9: and I shot him.

404
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: I think I shot him twice. Thought he was completely dead.

405
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: He was laying there still twenty making noises, and I

406
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: shot him in the head.

407
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 8: I probably should have left it there, but I know

408
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 8: he could die.

409
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Or had a very deformed face.

410
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 9: You were concerned, and I knew.

411
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 8: Although he would have died, he was already died.

412
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 9: He was already you would die.

413
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: But I just walked around the table and shot him

414
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: where I knew he would die immediately. In fact, his

415
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: obsession was done.

416
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: Killed him.

417
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 8: You know, I would have never goner.

418
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: I would have never pushed to that in my life.

419
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean occasionally in this line of business, I have

420
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: been speechless, and that happened to be when I've recovered.

421
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: Don't worry, uh, Christi Msurich reporting on the case. Did

422
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: you hear that? Oh?

423
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 10: I did.

424
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: That he would have a very different face because she

425
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: shot him in the face, and so she shot him again.

426
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: Then she goes into her political political preferences way and

427
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: Christy again.

428
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 4: We were aghast everybody that was covering this story in

429
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 4: Cincinnati when this was unfolding, because her big not only

430
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 4: political platform was discussed. But not to go into too

431
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 4: many details. She also started bereading the victim, saying, you

432
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 4: just don't understand why to shoot him so many times

433
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: because he was so vain and he.

434
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 2: Just wouldn't die.

435
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: Isn't it true, Christie mssuri that at one point she said,

436
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: I gave him the nose job he always wanted.

437
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 4: That is absolutely correct.

438
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: Okay. And with that, doctor Angel Arnold, you're the psychiatrist,

439
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: I'll let you weigh in on that. Oh my god, Nancy, who.

440
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 11: I know.

441
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 7: It's just it's sort of breathtaking, isn't it.

442
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I wouldn't describe it like that. I mean, I say

443
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: breathtaking when you look.

444
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 7: Down taking my breath away. I mean, who thinks like this? Right,

445
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 7: I'm still back on the part where she kept shooting him.

446
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 7: If she was so scared of him, like you said,

447
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 7: just get out of there, If she's such a gun hater,

448
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 7: then why did she keep shooting the guy?

449
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 12: Well?

450
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: Did you hear quote? His obsession with guns killed him,

451
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: not me.

452
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 7: Oh yeah again, hello psychopath, Nothing is her fault.

453
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: Okay. Okay, you know I've noticed something about you, doctor Angie.

454
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: You like to throw me on the term psychopath. But

455
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: not every went to medical school. So could you explain

456
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: what that is and why you're using the term with

457
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: Shana Heabers.

458
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 7: Psychopath is someone First of all, it's like a it's

459
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 7: like a heavier form of narcissistic personality disorder they have.

460
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 7: They have no remorse for things they don't.

461
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing. Did you explain one Latin term

462
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: with another Latin term? Okay, I'm sorry, had work.

463
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: Okay.

464
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 7: She she thinks about herself, she charms people, she lies,

465
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 7: she manipulates. There's a complete lack of social rules, and

466
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 7: she prioritizes her own self interest.

467
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: Francy, once I hear saying everything else is like blah

468
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, because it's not a defense. Either

469
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: you did or you did not know right from wrong

470
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: at the time of the incident. That is the quote

471
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: old McNaughton rule, which came from Great Britain, and we

472
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: Americans brought that jurisprudence, that body of law from Great

473
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: Britain when we came here, and that is still the

474
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: test for insanity today. Now there are some slight derivations,

475
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: but generally being a psychopath or being drunk or being

476
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: high on drugs or being narcissistic. None of that rises

477
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: to insanity as a defense under the law.

478
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 5: You're absolutely right, Nancy. In fact, you could be mentally

479
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 5: ill and still be legally responsible. And here, even if

480
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 5: she has in her retrials, even if she has medical experts,

481
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 5: get up and say she is insane or she was

482
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 5: insane at the time of the crime. The prosecution has

483
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 5: very strong arguments to combat that. In her own words

484
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 5: on the nine to one one call. As we've already

485
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 5: discussed all those inconsistencies, that's not because someone is insane.

486
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 5: That's someone who's constantly changing her story trying to find

487
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 5: the one that'll work to get her walked out of

488
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 5: the jail, and she never found it and she never

489
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 5: will find it.

490
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: Same thing with Jodi Arius. You remember how many defenses

491
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: she threw out. First, I wasn't even there. Okay, yes

492
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: I was there, but it was self defense. Well I

493
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: left out the one about a man and a woman

494
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 1: dressed as Ninja's came in and killed him and let

495
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: me live. The defense has changed and changed and changed, guys.

496
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: It just just nothing like giving the jury the nine

497
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: one one call in opening statement if you haven't already

498
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: had it admitted into evidence correctly pre trial. Then you

499
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: have to give a different opening statement, then lay the

500
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: foundation for the NIE one one call, and then play

501
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly for the jury because you really want

502
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: them to hear this. Listen.

503
00:31:51,800 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 12: Oh no, he said you're just the hillbilly from the

504
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 12: Times to me, I am if I the hillbilly came

505
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 12: out of me?

506
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: Cut the up.

507
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

508
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: I haven't mad.

509
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: Now, course I haven't done the whole lot.

510
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 9: But I feel like party doesn't feel bad about it.

511
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 9: That part of me, does you know what I mean?

512
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 9: Like that's part of the life he's making through me.

513
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: I just don't treat one.

514
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: I guess this is the need to fance quote. I

515
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: guess the hillbilly came out of me. Okay. She also

516
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: says part of me doesn't feel bad about it. Well,

517
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: I just had to get to this part of her interrogation. Listen,

518
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Oh please stop it. I thought I wanted to hear it,

519
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: but then suddenly I don't. She's actually vocalizing. She's singing

520
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: harmony and melody, which again shows she's not insane. Christy

521
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: Massurich helped me. This is just hours after she guns

522
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: down her boyfriend that broke up with her, that she

523
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: tried to get back with, that didn't want her back,

524
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: that she shot dead. Help me, why is she singing

525
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: amazing grace?

526
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 4: Well, because I think she's trying to pretend that she's crazy,

527
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 4: because moments after that, she's mumbling to herself in that

528
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: video she says she can't believe she actually did it,

529
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: and she's so good at acting. This tape went on

530
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: for hours, Nancy, this wasn't a short interrogation, and investigators

531
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 4: left her inside by herself because they were a guest

532
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: watching what was going on from another room and just

533
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 4: let the recording continue.

534
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: Again, reminds me of Jody Aris, remember her standing on

535
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: her head and doing gymnastics and humming in the police

536
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: interrogation room. Guys, you know this is like drinking from

537
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: the fire hydrant. And I think Fancy Haiks and jo

538
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan will agree with me. Not an interrogation tape

539
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: like this. Again, few and far between. Now, embrace yourself.

540
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: So many red flags. Take a listen to our friend

541
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: Tom McGee WCPO.

542
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 10: In the eighteen months Shanna Hubers and Ryan Posting were together,

543
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 10: there was an incredible number of social media messages between

544
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 10: them Highwand Heights Police Chief Bill Berkenhauer gave jurors a

545
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 10: staggering number on Monday.

546
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: Pretty much you can't count them.

547
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 10: I would say it was between fifteen one hundred thousand messages.

548
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 10: So how many came from Shannon Hubers and how many

549
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 10: did Ryan post? An answer, The chief says it depended

550
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 10: on the situation that he was trying.

551
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: To break up or move on.

552
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 7: She would send him one hundred messages to his one response.

553
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 6: Any times he would.

554
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: Just turn his phone off.

555
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 10: When it came to Facebook, Chief Berkenhauer testified that Hubert's

556
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 10: got into posting's page, blocked people, and send messages like

557
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 10: this hah After you wrote on my pick, Ryan unliked

558
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 10: it BC because he realized that I liked it from

559
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 10: his computer.

560
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: While logged on as him.

561
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: Ha ha ha.

562
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 10: Then there were times that Huber's used a friend's phone

563
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 10: to send text messages, often using strong language.

564
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: You're just a horrible attorney. Ha you lost a client

565
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: and didn't contest. Wow, not easy, just stupid.

566
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: Goodbye.

567
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: Well, there's nothing to her lawyer like attacking their maneuvers

568
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: in court. But I think our cut fourteen it's his

569
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: reporter Mike Shell at Fox nineteen was one of the

570
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: most disturbing facts that we learned. Listen.

571
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 11: Day six of the retrials saw the prosecution put four

572
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 11: three women who had contact with Hubers while she was

573
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 11: in the Campbell County Detention Center waiting for her first

574
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 11: trial to begin.

575
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: Nis, let's just get this out of the way right away.

576
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: Are you a convicted fella?

577
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 11: Yes, Paully Nivens says, You's described what happened after she

578
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 11: picked up Ryan Posting's gun from the dining room table

579
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 11: at his Highland Heights condo.

580
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: She asked Ryan, she said, what would you do if

581
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: I am pointed the gun at him?

582
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: What does she say?

583
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: Mister Poston did smirked at her, and what does she do?

584
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: At that point, walked around the table and shot him.

585
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 11: Posting stepsister left the courtroom in tears what she heard

586
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 11: what Huber's allegedly said about her family.

587
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 9: She had said that.

588
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 8: Ryan's family had a bunch of money and that they

589
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 8: can buy a new child.

590
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: Behind bar is awaiting trial, shanea Hebrews kill a girlfriend

591
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: says his family's got money, they can buy a new child, okay.

592
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, the psychological and psychiatric implications aside. Isn't

593
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: it true there was no evidence whatsoever of any physical

594
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: fight between the two.

595
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 6: No, there wasn't. And let me tell you this, I

596
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 6: can prove that her alibi, her story, whatever the hell

597
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 6: you want to call it, is complete bs, Nancy. When

598
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 6: you get into ballistics and firearms, one of the toughest

599
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 6: shots to make is what's referred to as a head shot.

600
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 6: If people at home will just think about the silhouettes

601
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 6: that they see, Folks that say gun ranges, if they've

602
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 6: ever seen pictures of it, it's a silhouette. You've got

603
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 6: a head, then you've got shoulders and a body. And

604
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 6: in defensive training, what they do is they teach you

605
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 6: to fire center mass. That means at the center of

606
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 6: the body, Okay, the biggest part of the body. To

607
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 6: score what's referred to as a head shot, particularly with

608
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 6: a handgun, is very, very difficult. It's a higher order

609
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 6: kind of thing. So what that tells me, miss, I'm

610
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 6: afraid of handguns and I don't even like handguns, Nancy.

611
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 6: From what I understand, she pumps six rounds into this guy. Okay, six, one, two, three, four,

612
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 6: five six, The one where she says, well, I guess

613
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 6: I gave him the nose job he always wanted. You

614
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 6: know why she did, because she shot him center mass

615
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 6: in the face with a lead core projectile that probably

616
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 6: destroyed his face at that moment time, and then she

617
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 6: continued to pump other rounds into him after she had

618
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 6: scored a deadly headshot. This is not something like if

619
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 6: you're falling backwards. Oh my god, I'm falling backwards and

620
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 6: I'm landing on this couch safely, and I'm just trying

621
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 6: to defend myself. Bs. You walked up on him, You

622
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 6: planned it, and you ambushed him. You shot this guy

623
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 6: in the face, and then once he was down, you

624
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 6: continue to pump rounds into his lifeless body.

625
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: Can I remind everybody that Shana Heabers started dancing around

626
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: the interrogation room, twirling in circles, snapping her fingers and

627
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: singing quote, I killed him, I killed him. I did it, Yes,

628
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: I did it. I can't believe I did that. Wow.

629
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: This woman had two criminal trials. The first of verdict

630
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: was thrown out after a general revealed he was a

631
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: convicted felon and even he convicted her. The second criminal

632
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: trial saw her same defense used again. She maintained she

633
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: was acting in self defense when she shot Posting in

634
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: the face. As she was speaking to police, she stated,

635
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: he's very vain. One of our last conversations we had

636
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: that was good was that he wants to get a

637
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 1: nose job, and I shot him right here. I gave

638
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: him his nose job he wanted. I broke it. Okay,

639
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: this woman needs to stay behind bars. And if any

640
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: of you men out there need to find a companion

641
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: or a love interest, I would like to shew you

642
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: warn you away from Shana Hubers. Okay, let me advise

643
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: you to take the patent turner pat the street and

644
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: turn the corner and go right down to your local

645
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: church or synagogue and meet a nice lady, not one

646
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: that will shoot you in the face after she stalks you. Okay,

647
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: just a word of advice, A nice lady you might

648
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: meet in Sunday school or Hebrew class, something like that. Okay.

649
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: If that doesn't work out, go wander around the produce

650
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: section at the grocery store. If that doesn't work, go

651
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: to the library. If that doesn't work, go to Loew's

652
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: or home depot. Please do not get hooked up with

653
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: Shana Huber. Now, I'm just a lawyer. I'm not a

654
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: professional shrink, dear Abby, but listen to me, man, do

655
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: not date Shana Hubers because I predict one day she

656
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: will get out and she will come looking for you.

657
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: And with that note, Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,