1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Bill Nye inspired this podcast. Yeah. Yes, 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: I was recently on a flight. I think it was 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: when I was coming back from south By Southwest, and 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: I was watching the Master Class with Bill Nye on 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: my flight. He just just casually mentioned William of Oakham 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: and Ockham's Razor and I was like, oh, yeah, there's 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: got to be a person behind that whole thing. And 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: then I started looking stuff up on my phone on 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: the flight, and now it's an episode. I would say, 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: this person is from longer ago then I would have 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 1: imagined just from the phrase Akham's razor in the way 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: it's thrown around the internet. Yes, and often not quite 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: with the real sense of meaning of the writings of 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: William of Ockham. We'll talk about that, you know, towards 17 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: the end. And also some behind the scenes. Yeah. Like 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: I said, I started researching him and then discovered things 19 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: about him that I was like, what, there's some good 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: drama in this one. So that is who we are 21 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: talking about today, and specifically really his clashes with the Pope. 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: There were a lot so way before the clashing with 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: the Pope started. William was born in the winter that 24 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: straddled the years of twelve eighty seven and twelve eighty eight. 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: His exact date of birth within that winter is unknown, 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: As his name suggests, he was born in the village 27 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: of oak Hamlet or Ockham, southwest of London. While there's 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: only speculation about his earliest years, we know that sometime 29 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: between the years of twelve ninety four and thirteen oh one, 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: so at some point when he was younger than thirteen, 31 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: he was sent to London to study with the Franciscan Order, 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: also known as the Order of the Friars Minor. It 33 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: appears that as part of this move, William's family relinquished 34 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: any control or rites that they had regarding his future. 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: He was essentially given over to the Order. This may 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: have been done because an education within the London Gray 37 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: Friars as they were called, would have just exceeded any 38 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: opportunity that he had otherwise, and after getting a solid 39 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: foundational education in his childhood in teen years with the 40 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: Grayfriars in his early twenties, which would have put it 41 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: in the late thirteen teens, Williams started really studying theology. 42 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of uncertainty about where he started 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: studying religion more seriously, but he did even chilly Land 44 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: at Oxford in a two year course studying the theological 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: compendium Sentences that's also known as the Book of Sentences, 46 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: and it's believed to have been written right in the 47 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: middle of the twelfth century. That text was written by 48 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: a man named Pierre Lombard, who you'll also see as 49 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: Peter Lombard. This was a French theologian, the Bishop of Paris. Lombard. 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: Sentences consisted of four books with different spiritual themes. Book 51 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: one examined God, the Holy Trinity, and concepts of a 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: divine force leading humans to good, the nature of evil 53 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: and predestination. Book two covers all of the elements that 54 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: went into and led up to human kinds fall from grace, 55 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: including writing on angels and demons. Book three focuses on 56 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ and the path to human redemption, and Book 57 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: four goes over the sacraments and the final stages of 58 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: mortal life, so death, judgment, and the transition to the hereafter, 59 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: whether that's heaven, or hell. Achham did not receive a 60 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: degree from Oxford. Once he had completed that two year course, 61 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: he returned to the Greyfriars in London and settled into 62 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: life there. And he wrote a lot of his most 63 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: well known works in the years immediately following his time 64 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: at Oxford, and they were not always especially popular. These 65 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: were primarily commentaries on sentences and sometimes called the long 66 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: accepted text into question. This led to friction and William 67 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: having to defend his work before regional leadership of the Order. 68 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: It is also possible that his contentious views on the 69 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: sentences are the reason that he left Oxford without what 70 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: would be the equivalent of a master's degree. Backham was 71 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: not the only person who was invited to leave Oxford 72 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: during this time. A member of the Dominican Order named 73 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: John Lutrell was chancellor at Oxford when was there, but 74 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: he was so disliked that he was pushed out of 75 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: his position not long after William of Ockham left. To 76 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: be clear, though, that two of them did not share 77 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: the same ideology. For a lot of history, it has 78 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: been believed that because of Acham's views, which often clashed 79 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: with other members of the Order, he was sent to 80 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: Avignon to be charged with teaching heresy before the papal court. 81 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: There is also sometimes a direct link made between his 82 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: early exit from his time at Oxford and his travel 83 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: to Avignon, meaning it was the summons to appear before 84 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: the Pope that interrupted his academic work. Just as a 85 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: note if you're like Avignon, this was during the sixty 86 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: seven year period when the papacy was seated in Avignon 87 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: instead of Rome, which started when Pope Clement the Fifth 88 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: refused to relocate from France to Rome when he was 89 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: elected Pope in thirteen o nine. There is more to 90 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: that story, but that is outside of today's focus on 91 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: William of Ockham. As we said, this is how Okam's 92 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: moved to France has been characterized for centuries. But an 93 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: article that appeared in nineteen seventy eight in the journal 94 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: Franciscan Studies made the case that the motivation for traveling 95 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: to France was much more benign for William of Ockham. 96 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: That article was by George Nish titled Biographical Rectifications concerning 97 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: Okam's Avignon period. This site's letters written by Pope John 98 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: the twenty second to established a slightly different timeline and 99 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: points to the trip to Avignon being catalyzed by nothing 100 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: more than just the next step in Ockham's academic studies. 101 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: Regardless of the situation that brought him to France, Akham 102 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: was free to basically do what he wanted while he 103 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: was there, so long as he stuck to Avignon. One 104 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: account that I read described this situation as a loose 105 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: house arrest, which I don't know why I really loved. 106 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: And he never returned to England. But perhaps most importantly, 107 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: he was once again in contact with John Lutterell, who 108 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: had gone to Avignon after being outstood at Oxford in 109 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: the hopes of cozying up to the papacy and securing 110 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: his career that way. And when it came to Akam, 111 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: Lutterell was ready. He had studied Okham's teachings on the 112 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: sentences and had compiled a list of fifty six points 113 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: on which he felt Okham was incorrect and even heretical. 114 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: Lutterell was, as you remember, working on his own image 115 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: with the church, so it benefited him to point out 116 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: the perceived failings of Akham's teachings. He also sat on 117 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: a committee with five other people to review Akham's work 118 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: and specifically his commentary on the Sentences, to do that 119 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: more deeply, to write reports for the Pope about it. 120 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: Two reports were produced by the committee, and their findings 121 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: squarely pointed to Akham being out of step with accepted 122 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: religious teachings of the time. Akham seems to have been 123 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: pretty unwilling to bend to anyone's criticism of his interpretations 124 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: of the Sentences, because when those reports were filed, he 125 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: in turn wrote a new commentary of the Sentences with corrections, 126 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: meaning that he further criticized the long respected books of 127 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: Pierre Lombard. If this seems like Akam was rebellious, it's 128 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: actually a little more complicated than that. He was what 129 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: would come to be known as a theologian logician, meaning 130 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: that he applied pretty fairly rigid logic to his interpretations 131 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: of religious matters. He held God as the most important 132 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: figure in his analysis, of course, and based his logical 133 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: analyzes on the acceptance that God is omnipotent and that 134 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: omnipotence allows the deity to provide salvation for humans. So, 135 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: when confronted with his alleged heresy, Akam used all of 136 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: his logic to essentially walk critics through his flow chart 137 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: of the logical thinking it had brought him to his 138 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: determinations on matters of religion, and he was apparently very 139 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: skilled when it came to debating such matters. This all 140 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: seemed like it was going to get Acam condemned by 141 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, but he wasn't, at least not yet, 142 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: and that was probably because there were other pressing issues 143 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: to attend to for the papacy. Before we get to those, 144 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: we should talk about Pope John the twenty second, and 145 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: we will get to that after we pause for a 146 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: sponsor break. Pope John the twenty second, who was born 147 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: Jacques Duiz, became the pope after a lot of conflict 148 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: over who was going to succeed his predecessor, Pope Clement 149 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: the Fifth, who died on April twentieth, thirteen fourteen. Clement 150 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: the Fifth had made Duez Cardinal Bishop of Porto a 151 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: year and a half before he died. Duez background was 152 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: in both cannon and civil law. Because of his legal knowledge, 153 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: he had in his career argued the absolute supremacy of 154 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the Church in all matters when it came into conflict 155 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: with government and royal interests, particularly regarding Pope Boniface the 156 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: eighth and his bull of papal supremacy in thirteen oh two, 157 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: when Clement the fifth died, the Holy See was vacant 158 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: for more than two years because the Council of Cardinals 159 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: responsible for selecting the new Pope was in such a 160 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: state of conflict between two factions that they couldn't even 161 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: agree on where to meet to have the discussion. After 162 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: the first council dissolved because of these issues, various royals 163 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: got involved to try to urge the Church to find 164 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: a way forward. This was very destabilizing for Europe. After 165 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: Philip the fifth of France and Navarre took his throne 166 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: in November of thirteen sixteen, he got very serious with 167 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church about resolving this matter, and he decided 168 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: himself that the cardinals would meet in Lyon in a 169 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: Dominican monastery and they would emerge with a decision. So 170 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: there is a bit of an interesting twist in that 171 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: Jacques Duez, who argued for ultimate power of the Church 172 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: over monarchies, was only elected to become Pope John the 173 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: twenty second after the King of France kind of made 174 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: it happen. As we mentioned before, the break Akam seemed 175 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: to have dodged a condemnation. He had kind of settled 176 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: into life in Avignon. He was continuing his philosophical works, completing, 177 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: among other things, the work that came to be known 178 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: as the Quadlabets. There was a whole other problem brewing 179 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church's leadership over the way some aspects 180 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: of the church operated. The Franciscan order believed that religious 181 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: leaders and brothers in their orders should live like Jesus, 182 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: meaning they could not acquire wealth or own anything, but 183 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: should instead live off the kindness of others and things 184 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: that they could manage to generate themselves, like growing produce, 185 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: although that involved the use of loaned land. This was 186 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: just a basic part of living as a Franciscan, and 187 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: Pope John the twenty second, who was head of the 188 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: church at the time, was not on the same page 189 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: the head of the Franciscans at the time. Italian theologian 190 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: Michael of Chesenna, traveled to Avignon to confront John the 191 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: twenty second about this issue. This is sometimes characterized as 192 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: the Pope having sent for Michael, and other accounts kind 193 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: of make it seem like Michael of Chiesenna initiated the trip. 194 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: Michael of Chesena had arrived in Avignon in thirteen twenty seven, 195 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: but the conflict lasted into the following year and the 196 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: arguments over the issue only intensified. The crux of the 197 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: matter was, as we said, whether religious figures, and specifically 198 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: Franciscans could own property. But it had come into sharp 199 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: focus over a man named Bonagratia of Bergamo. Like Pope 200 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: John the twenty second, Bonagratia had studied both cannon and 201 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: civil law, but unlike the Pope, he was quite adamant 202 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: that Franciscan's in particular should maintain their poverty. The reasons 203 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: was such a hot issue for Pope John the twenty 204 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: Second was that, as you'll recall, he became the pope 205 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: when there was a lot of infighting in the church 206 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: and one of the issues that had divided people was 207 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: Franciscan poverty. So it was one of the first problems 208 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: he was expected to solve, and here he was a 209 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: decade later, still having arguments over it. So when Michael 210 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: of Chezenna arrived in France, it was to try to 211 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: untangle this problem and specifically to advocate on behalf of 212 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: Bonegracia of Bergamo. To support his argument, Michael asked Akham 213 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: to do an academic survey of Pope John the twenty 214 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: second's own writings and to basically compile a report as 215 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: an aside. Bonagracia of Bergamo was never freed from his 216 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: confinement and Avignon and died there. So Akam began to 217 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: pore over everything that had been written on the matter, 218 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: and specifically what had been written and discussed in the 219 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: year since John had become the Pope, and even more 220 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: specifically writings by Pope John the twenty second. There is 221 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: a passage in the second chapter of the Rule of 222 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: Saint Francis which is titled on those who wish to 223 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: adopt this life, and the Pope had quoted this in 224 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: his writings on the matter. It is about clothes. Here 225 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: is what the Pope wrote. Quote first, when it is 226 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: said in the rule that those who have promised obedience 227 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: may have one tunic with a hood, and another if 228 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: they so wish, without a hood, and likewise let the 229 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: brothers wear poor clothes. Over the sense of those words, 230 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: the declaration of our predecessors, Nicholas the third and Clement 231 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: the fifth limpidly flow and the aforementioned Clement was led 232 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: to leave the judgment of poor clothes to the ministers, 233 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: custodians and the guardians of the Order. There had apparently 234 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: been lot of disagreement about the level of poverty involved 235 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: in assuming a life with the Franciscan Order. What did 236 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: poor clothes mean? Did they mean that they were of 237 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: poor quality? Was it that they were worn down? The 238 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: specific meaning was important because it related to their basic 239 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: day today way of living, and if it was not 240 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: agreed upon, strife would only continue. John the twenty second 241 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: wrote the following statement on the issue. Quote, we, after 242 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: seriously listening to arguments from both sides and fully understanding them, 243 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: wish to put a final end to this business. On 244 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: the council of our brothers. We declare and say that 245 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: when it says in the rule, let all the brothers 246 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: wear poor clothes, this sort of poorness of clothes, both 247 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: in the external habit and in the tunic underneath. The 248 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: aforementioned Clement decreed must be understood according to the custom 249 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: and conditions of a particular area, and consequently the poorness 250 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: is left to the judgment of the ministers, and no 251 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: less do we commit to the judgment of the minister's 252 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: custodians and guardians the authority to determine, that is, to 253 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: judge and prescribe the length, width, size, weave, form or figure, 254 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: and other similar accidents of the habit and the tunic 255 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: underneath in which these brothers in the Order of Miners 256 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: must be clothed. Above all, whether these clothes are in 257 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: accordance with the rule and with papal declarations. So if 258 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: that's not clear, He's like, it's going to be different 259 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: no matter, like depending on where you live. So we'll 260 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: just let the different areas decide. John the twenty second 261 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: also wrote a lot of notes about the rules as 262 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: set forth by Saint Francis, and there are entire scholarly 263 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: papers dedicated to listing them. There is no consensus regarding 264 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: when these notes were made. They could have come years 265 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: later after the events were talking about today, and William 266 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: of Ockham's place in them. All of this is historically 267 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: important because John the twenty seconds time as Pope is 268 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: sometimes called by scholars quote a black time. This wasn't 269 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: only about tunics, obviously, but that whole discussion is kind 270 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: of a representative of a larger set of proclamations that 271 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: were made by John the twenty second about the Franciscans. 272 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: He was making these decisions after considering them almost exclusively, 273 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: it seems, through a legal lens, and that makes sense 274 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: because he didn't have any serious religious training. He was 275 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: not a theologian by training, but someone who rose to 276 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: power in the Church through his knowledge of canon law 277 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: regarding the issue of the Franciscans, and to settle the 278 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: ongoing disputes about what Saint Francis meant in various rules, 279 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Pope John the twenty second made three declarations about the 280 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: operation of the Franciscan Order. The first was the papal 281 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: bull add Condatorum to the Founder, which was issued on 282 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: December eighth, thirteen twenty two. In it, the Pope undid 283 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: one of the big ways that the Church had made 284 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: it possible for the Franciscans to function prior to this bull. 285 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 1: The way they had gotten around Saint Francis's rule that 286 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: no Franciscan could receive or even touch money or to 287 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: have possession of anything, was that anything that was given 288 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: to the Franciscans to help the order, whether it was land, clothing, books, etc. 289 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: That was technically all owned by the papacy and not 290 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: by the Order. The Franciscans could use things, but they 291 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: could not, as individuals or an order, own things. This 292 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: bull undid that arrangement, and so that the Franciscan Order 293 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: would have to own their own stuff. This decision was 294 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: made by the Pope using the logic of Roman law, 295 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: where if using a thing destroys its substance, you have 296 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: to own that thing, yeah, otherwise it would be theft. 297 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: The second bull come into Nonulos when among Some was 298 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 1: issued in November thirteen, twenty three, and it further dismantled 299 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: Franciscan ideology. In it, John the twenty second rejected the 300 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: idea that Jesus and the Apostles had owned nothing. This 301 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: is a basic tenant of why the Franciscans lived the 302 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: way they did. The entire reason the Franciscan Order required 303 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: adherents to give up all earthly possessions was based on 304 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: the belief that they were living as Jesus and the 305 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: Apostles had. So the Pope issuing this bull was kind 306 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: of like saying may you're all wrong. The third bull 307 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: that John the twenty second issued quia courandum because some 308 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: responded to all of the critics of the first two 309 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: and to once again assert that you cannot use the 310 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: thing if you don't own it. When we come back 311 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: from a quick sponsor break, we'll talk about Okam's report, 312 00:19:53,480 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: which came to some pretty bold conclusions. After all of 313 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: his study, Okham's report on all of this ended up 314 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: being pretty bad for everyone. Okam came to the conclusion 315 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: that Pope John the twenty seconds rejection of Apostolic poverty 316 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: was heretical, willfully heretical, making the leader of the Catholic 317 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: Church a heretic, which meant that he should not be pope. 318 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: Akham wrote that he found in John the twenty seconds 319 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: writings quote, a great many things that were heretical, erroneous, silly, ridiculous, fantastic, insane, 320 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: and defamatory, contrary to orthodox faith, good morals, natural reasons, 321 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: certain experience, and fraternal charity. He also noted that the 322 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: pope didn't have a strong theological background, and this surely 323 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: angered John the twenty second because he had made a 324 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: significant effort at studying theology, as he rose to power, 325 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: and this was likely kind of a sensitive subject. Cut 326 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: to William Evakam and Michael of Juzana secretly leaving Avignon 327 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night on May twenty sixth 328 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: thirteen twenty eight. The two Franciscans, who were traveling with 329 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: supporters who also chose to leave Avignon over the Pope's position, 330 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: all went to Pisa, Italy. There they stayed with Emperor 331 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: Louis the Fourth, the Bavarian, who had his own beef 332 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: with the papacy. And Louis the Fourth's case, it was 333 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: because he supported the idea of the Holy Roman Empire 334 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: existing with some separation politically from the Papacy. In large part, 335 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: it was because he and others believed that the empire 336 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: should be able to elect their own emperor without the 337 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: leadership of the Catholic Church getting involved. At this time, 338 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: the convention was for the Holy Roman Emperor to be 339 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: elected by the people, but then approved by the Pope 340 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: before he could take his throne. Louis the Fourth wanted 341 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: to omit this papal approval step. He wanted to consolidate power. 342 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: He also accused the Pope of heresy, so he had 343 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: some things in common with William of Ockham and Michael 344 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: of Tusannah, although to be clear, those two men were 345 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: not after a power in the way that the Emperor was. 346 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: There is so much more to Louis the Fourth story, 347 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: of course, and the many machinations of his rise to 348 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: power in his time as emperor, including the installation of 349 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: the anti Pope Nicholas the Fifth. That is all outside 350 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: the scope of this episode. The important thing is they 351 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: all just had a lot of gripes against John the 352 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: twenty second. Michael and Okam were officially excommunicated on June sixth, 353 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: thirteen twenty eight. That was just two weeks after they 354 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: had left Avignon. But the official reason for William of 355 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: Ockham's excommunication was not that he had challenged the Pope's legitimacy. 356 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: It was recorded that he was excommunicated for leaving Avignon 357 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: without permission. But even though these men had left Avignon 358 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: and were no longer part of the Catholic Church, they 359 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: continued to bicker with the pope. First, Michael of Juzana 360 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: wrote detailed criticisms of the Pope after they left. The 361 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: Pope responded with another bull going point by point through 362 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: Michael's document, and then in thirteen thirty two, William of 363 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: Ikam wrote a criticism of that document of the Popes 364 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: called the Work of ninety Days. One of the ways 365 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: Akam attacked the Pope's arguments regarding property was to point 366 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: out that a moral right to use a thing is 367 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: enough justification one doesn't have to own it. He invoked 368 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden and how the perfect world intended 369 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: for man started without any concept of ownership that did 370 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: not come into play until the original sin, and so 371 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: the Franciscan way of life was closer to the desired 372 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: state than one in which they were forced to take 373 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: ownership of physical things. Akam noted in his work that 374 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: once the concept of property and a human life law 375 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: was introduced into the world, the original design for using 376 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: things was impeded. He also made the case that there 377 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: are just going to be things that have to be 378 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: used out of necessity, and in such cases the morality 379 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: of the situation may still be to respect the rights 380 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: of others, but that the necessity is more important than 381 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: an owner's legal right to prevent use. Franciscans, he explained, 382 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: didn't exercise any legal rights, but were bound by moral rights. 383 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: They would never, for example, get into a property dispute 384 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: if usage permission were withdrawn, but they should be able 385 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: to use the thing if they needed to without bringing 386 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: ownership into the situation, which would go against their beliefs. Yeah, 387 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: they were generally like non confrontational on all things. One 388 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: of the illustrative stories that included in a discussion of 389 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: this in one of the papers I read was like 390 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: they brought up a story of Franciscan's staying in a 391 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: place a building, and animals coming and moving in, and 392 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: them yielding to the animals because they were like, Okay, 393 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: it's not ours, so you go ahead. After an exhaustive 394 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: case made regarding the nature of the Franciscan order and 395 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: how it relates to the law, Akham spent the last 396 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: two sections of the Work of ninety Days outlining again 397 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: all of the ways in which Pope John the twenty 398 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: second was a heretic. At the most basic level, just 399 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: by changing the rules of poverty that had been part 400 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: of Catholic truth meant that he was heretical in Okham's view. 401 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: He also examined the concept of Catholic truth and defined 402 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: it as anything that is taught in the Bible, anything 403 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: that at any time is accepted as the Catholic truth 404 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: by all Catholics with no descent on the matter, and 405 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: any new revelations attested by miracle. And he explains that 406 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: the big issue with John the twenty second is not 407 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,479 Speaker 1: that he has had heretical beliefs, because anyone can make 408 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: them a stake, but that even when shown the heresy 409 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: of that belief through a well made argument what Acham 410 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: calls a legitimate correction, still holds it. It was a 411 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: pretty slick way to say, we keep explaining this to 412 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: you and you refuse to change your position, so you 413 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: must be a heretic. He also made the case that 414 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: a pope holding heretical ideas shouldn't just be removed as pope. 415 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: He stopped being pope the second he became a heretic. 416 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: Sometime in thirteen twenty nine, Louis the fourth returned to 417 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: Munich and the refugees from Avignon went with him. William 418 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: of Ockham stayed in Munich for the rest of his life, 419 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: and although we don't know much about his day to 420 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: day life there, we do know that this was a 421 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: very productive time in which he wrote almost exclusively about 422 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: political concepts and ideology. A lot of these examined the 423 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: conflict that caused the papacy in King Louis the Fourth 424 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: to part ways. Akam made the case in his later 425 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: writings that government's head this did before Christianity, so it 426 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: made sense for them to continue to function that way. 427 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: He recognized that there were secular rulers in the world 428 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: and that the idea of papal supremacy was problematic. He 429 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: also envisioned a world that all functioned under one world 430 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: monarchy that would see to peace for all. Acham is 431 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: reported as having died late April ninth or early April tenth, 432 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: thirteen forty seven. He was about sixty at that time. 433 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: It is sometimes reported that he died in thirteen forty nine, 434 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: when a plague swept through Munich, but thirteen forty seven 435 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: does appear to be the correct date. He never reconciled 436 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: with the Catholic Church. Over the centuries, William of Acham 437 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: has been categorized as being a founder or member of 438 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: a lot of different branches of philosophy. Although he's most 439 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: commonly associated with nominalism. He's also labeled as a conceptualist 440 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: and sometimes as a terminist. But for most people, the 441 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: most idea associated with William of Ockham is Okham's razor, 442 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: but he did not coin that term, nor did any 443 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: of his contemporaries. It didn't appear in print until five 444 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: hundred years after his death, when mathematician William Rowan Hamilton 445 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: referenced Ockham's razor, and that was spelled with two cs 446 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: instead of ock You'll see various spellings of his name, 447 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: and he referenced that in a paper in eighteen fifty two, 448 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: so you've probably heard Okham's razor explained as the idea 449 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: that the simplest explanation for something is probably the most likely, 450 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: or that the simplest way to solve a problem is 451 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: the best. It was never quite the way William of 452 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: Ockham talked about approaching things, which in his case these 453 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: are normally questions of philosophy. Akham's approach has been more 454 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: accurately explained as don't multiply entities beyond necessity, or among 455 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. 456 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: This idea of shaving away extraneous assumptions or anything that's 457 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: not always clear to the thinker is what led Hamilton 458 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: to associate this idea with a razor. Akham himself described 459 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: his position on assumption and simplicity of reason this way 460 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: quote for nothing ought to be posited without a reason 461 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: given unless it is self evident, literally known through itself, 462 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: or known by experience, or proved by authority of sacred scripture. 463 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: And you can actually trace that idea back to one 464 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: of Akham's biggest influences, Aristotle, who wrote quote, we may 465 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: assume the superiority other things being equal of the demonstration, 466 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: which derives from fewer postulates or hypotheses. Maybe it should 467 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: be called Aristotle's racer, but Akham's racer sounds kind of cooler. 468 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's fun to say that's William of Acham. 469 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting because he gets in some cases, like all 470 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: of his arguments with the Pope are really well documented, 471 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: But then there are whole chunks of his life where 472 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: it's like, no, you seem to be just hanging out 473 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: and writing a lot of other stuff. Do you have 474 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: some listener mail? I do. This is from our listener Karen, 475 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: and I love the subject of her email because it 476 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: says yeay theater history, and Karen writes, Hello Holly and Tracy, 477 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: this theater historian was so excited to open my podcast 478 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: app today to find your topic of the day is 479 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: Augustine Daily. One of my favorite possibly apocryphal stories about 480 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: Daily is one that speaks to his sometimes tyrannical manipulation 481 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: of actors in his company. The story is that during 482 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: a rehearsal and actress had difficulty reaching the emotional heights 483 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: or truth that he believed the scene required, or perhaps 484 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,959 Speaker 1: that the actress arrived late to the rehearsal, but at 485 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: any rate, in frustration, he pulled out his pocket watch, 486 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: threw it on the ground, and then stomped on it. 487 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: Realizing that he had just smashed his grandfather's or father's watch, 488 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: he began sobbing, which got him the behavior he wanted 489 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: from the actress. It turns out he hadn't many watches, 490 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: and he used this manipulative trick several times. Thank you 491 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: for all your amazing research and carefully written podcasts. If 492 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: you've got a taste for some other really interesting theatrical 493 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: figures in history, she gives us some suggestions. I'm not 494 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: giving them in case they're a fun surprise for later. 495 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: All the best to you from our House of Humans 496 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: and Felines. PS. The attached photo is of our senior kitty, Cassie, 497 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: the bestest kitty ever. Cassie is a little sweet looking Calico. Yeah, 498 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: so I love or like a torty. She might be 499 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: a torty. Actually I see no white to torty, I think, 500 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: which is even better because they're usually very sassy and smart. 501 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Thank you Karen for that that cute anecdote. I mean 502 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: it's a cute anecdote for us because we're not living 503 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: through being manipulated, but it's a good indicator of how 504 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: times have changed and how people accept behaviors of people 505 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: in our There are also still a lot of people 506 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: manipulating others because they are in power. But I feel 507 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: like if that if that got exposed today on the 508 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: part of a director, people would at least recognize that 509 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: he's kind of a monster. If you would like to 510 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: write to us, you can do so at History Podcasts 511 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also follow us on 512 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: social media app misst in History, and you can subscribe 513 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your 514 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: favorite podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 515 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 516 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 517 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: favorite shows.