1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs two Ghosts and Government cover Ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Welcome 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: back to the show. Thanks for tuning in. My name 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: is Ben Bullen and my name is Matt Frederick and 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: that's our super producer, Noel Over on the boards, which 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: that was a nice bow, Noel. That makes this stuff 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know the audio show, right, 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: that's correct. And today we are talking about human experimentation, 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: something that we've covered already in our video series, but 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: we thought we'd like to sit down and go over 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: it a little bit more in depth. Yeah, because we've 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: touched on this and a couple of different shows. We 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: have a series just on human experimentation. As you said, 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: we also touched a little bit on it in the 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: deep Web because there's some real creepy stuff you can see, 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: um about people claiming to conduct non consensual human experiments. Right, 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: that's the best kind, right, Yeah, that's the that's the 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: main kind. Um. Well, where better to start off than 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: with an article by h Robert Lamb from Stuff to 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind? Uh, great show he does, he does 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: right for the website How Stuff Works and podcast for 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: us and anytime you think, man, I'd be interested in 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: hearing a show kind of like Ben and Matt's, will 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: go ahead and check out these folks. Uh. Point being 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: Robert has a great article on human experimentation on our 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: website how stuff Works dot com, and he had a 28 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: great quotation here, uh that one of us should read. 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: What do you think, Matt? Yeah, I'll go for it. Okay. 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: The issue of human experimentation generally comes down to a 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: basic fact. When science deals directly with humans, you have 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: to study humans eventually. It's that simple. Whether you're looking 33 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: to heal ailments and injuries, build us, say, for automobile, 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: or design a deadlier weapon, you may need to test 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: human thresholds for disease, stress, and injury. Yeah, which I 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: thought was a really well written way to say something 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: that is the essentially the crux of the ethical dilemma 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: that is human experimentation. Now we know, of course, the 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: human experimentation dates far back into the past. I always 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: mispronounced this guy's name the father of anatomy horror Flis 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: horror Filius. So this guy, uh, the father of anatomy 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: being a fairly prestigious title. Uh. He also practiced vivis section, 43 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: which is a fancy word for cutting people open while 44 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: they're alive, kind of to see what happens. Yeah, that's 45 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: um that's the kind of thing you hear about with 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: kids experimenting on cats that turn out to be serial killers. 47 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: So good job, Ruflis. Yeah, like one of the trifecta, 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: there is a sideboard. But did you ever hear that? 49 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: What was the theory that there are three warning signs 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: that the psychologist made to figure out if someone was 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: going to be a serial killer and arsonists later in life. 52 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: One of them was torturing animals, another one's late stage 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: bed wedding, and then re arson. Apparently bedwetters and arsonists 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: are part of a ven diagram. It's weird. Sorry, different show. 55 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: We'll get to that one. So for a long time, 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: here's the problem with modern medicine. Um or, I guess 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: this wouldn't even count as modern, but here's the problem. Nonetheless, 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: for quite a while, medicine depended upon the study of cadavers, 59 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and these were often from executed criminals. Yeah, and well, 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: here's the biggest problem with working on a cadaver they're dead. 61 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Their body is completely different than a functioning human body. 62 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: There are a lot of processes that occur immediately upon 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: death and that begin to occur. So the information that 64 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: you're getting, the data that you're getting from a corpse 65 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: is not the same as what you would get from 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: a living a body. Right. Yeah, that's a really good point. Um, 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: And because we're both being grown ups, I will avoid 68 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: making a lot of death fart jokes. Okay, that happens. 69 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Okay, I think it's still concipizes that 70 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: it like that. Well, yeah, and that's a good point. 71 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: Because the laws were a bit shaky. This was a 72 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: case where we need cadavers to study, even with their drawbacks, 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: because you can't cut people apart while they were alive, 74 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: or we shouldn't be doing that, but the laws around 75 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: procuring cadavers, especially in Western Europe, were pretty difficult, leading 76 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: to something called the resurrection men, which is a cool 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: name for people who steel dead bodies or superheroes however 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: you want to yeah, or superhero could be, it could be. 79 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: It sounds it's a super heroic name, maybe some kind 80 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: of I could see it as a Bible superhero some 81 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: kind of contemporary Christian church puts on. Yeah, or like 82 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: someone who like people who just cannot die. Oh excellent, Um, 83 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: but that kind of messes up the stakes of this story. 84 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: I apologize. No, no, anyway, these guys aren't don't apologize. 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: These guys aren't superheroes. Really, their cadaver thieves. And uh, 86 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: they interfered with the social fabric of their time so 87 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: much that it led to the Anatomy Act of eighteen 88 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: thirty two, which was passed so that medical schools wouldn't 89 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: have to rely on this illegal, this bootleg corpse industry, 90 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: uh to advance higher learning. So they also, uh, well 91 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: it kind of it kind of follows a trend where 92 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: the people that were being used for this kind of 93 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: experimentation where a lot of times criminals or minorities of 94 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: wherever place they were living, disabled, and a lot of 95 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: times the poor. Right. Yeah, and here's where we get 96 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: to a kind of scary point with human experimentation. These 97 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: practices on the disenfranchised continue into the modern age, and 98 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: as we see they continue in some places today. Don't 99 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: get us wrong, we are we are well aware that 100 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: human experimentation is necessary. Um. And some of the research 101 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,679 Speaker 1: that would have been just considered an atrocity in modern 102 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: times did lead to valuable data about the human condition. Right, 103 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: that's true. So well, let's talk about something, Ben, Let's 104 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: talk about when human experimentation is just downright wrong. Okay, no, 105 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: if sans and butts, it's just wrong. Okay. Uh well, 106 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: all right, let's let's listen these off. One. When it's 107 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: non consensual, that makes sense. I don't want anybody doing 108 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: anything to me that I don't want them to do, 109 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: so I can understand that that's the whole golden rule thing, right. Okay, 110 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: what about when the patients are the victims are uninformed, 111 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: so they don't have a chance to disagree or to 112 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: give conser interesting. Uh so, I'm just trying to understand 113 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: the difference between non consensual and not being informed. Non 114 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: Consensual is no, don't cut me open, I'm alive, unin 115 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: full armed. Is not being told that the um the 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: food you're being given has an experimental radio radioactive tracing device. 117 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: Something understood, thank you, sir. So it's it's kind of 118 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: it's a difference of degree. And then when there's no 119 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: regard for patient safety right now, of course, or when 120 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: the patients are victims, can't refuse to participate at any point. 121 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: So I'm not telling me there. That's a little yeah, 122 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: that's great. That's a little bit different. So let's say 123 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: we're let's say you and I are in an experiment 124 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: and uh Knowle's conducting experiment. And he says, okay, guys, 125 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: you're each going to get into this experiment where you 126 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: stab yourselves in the hands every every ten minutes, you 127 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: stab yourselves in the hands for science or whatever. And 128 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: uh then, you know, let's say, eleven minutes into it, 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: we want to quit. But he says no, and he's 130 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: got the you know, the science goons tying us down. 131 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: And then I got that science Well it's hypothetical, okay, 132 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: but but that's the idea. And then maybe, um, I 133 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: don't know about this last one, the idea that human 134 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: experimentation could be wrong when they're alternative avenues of research. 135 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: That's a little bit ethically iffy for some people because 136 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: those alternative avenues of research could most often be animals, right, 137 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: which some people have a big problem with. So we 138 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: we do have substitutes for experimenting on another person, right, Yeah, yeah, 139 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: animals are the go to um, Rabbits are cows? Are 140 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: you sometimes mice? Rats? Primates? Um. There are a lot 141 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: of people that see that as equally as wrong. Yeah, 142 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: it might not always be appropriate on a couple of levels. 143 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: Even just on the ethical level might not be appropriate, 144 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: but also on the um biological level, we might get 145 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: the same data. Like one thing that always escapes people, 146 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: I think is when you hear a study about this much, 147 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, aspertame or something given to a rat induced 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: cancer rats not a person um, And the dosages might 149 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: be different as well. So it's a substitute, but it's 150 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: not it's not ethical. It's only less unethical, I guess 151 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: if you're saving human life. Um. But then there's the 152 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: other one, which is my favorite. You know this one, 153 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: the old self experimentation. Just turn that knife on yourself. 154 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: Let's see what happens. Man, take that pill. Who knows, 155 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get some data. Hopefully I'll still be around 156 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: to write it down, which is great. That's a great point. 157 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: One of the big problems with the sort of roll 158 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: of the dice devil make are approach to science that 159 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: is self experimentation, is that it's difficult to wonder how 160 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: you would retain objectivity. How how can you measure the 161 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: data when you are the observer and the observed absolute man, 162 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: I can imagine somebody thinking that it's going a lot 163 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: better because of maybe the side effects of whatever testing 164 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: he's he or she is doing on themselves. Yes, and 165 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: speaking testing. Now, let's run through some cases of human 166 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: experimentation that is just out and out wrong. Let me 167 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: jump to let's see, let's start off with the Guatemala 168 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: syphilis experiments. In the forties, UH Dr John Cutler of 169 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: US Public Health Service worked with the Guatemalan government to 170 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: expose people to things like syphilis, gonorrhea, and uh a 171 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: couple of other nasty characters, primarily to see if penicillin 172 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: could prevent the affection. UM only seven people were treated. Now, 173 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: many of these people already had the disease, were just 174 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: observed or denied treatment. UM eighty three did die. Some 175 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: of these folks were prisoners, some were soldiers, and some 176 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: that were mental patients. Yeah, talking about non content there, jeez. 177 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: Then you've got the Tuskegee experiments. These are probably one 178 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: of the most well known episodes of human experimentation. This 179 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: is UH in nineteen thirty two, all the way to 180 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. That's forty years where there were experiments 181 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: with It was an experiment overall, but it was really 182 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: just looking at the effects of syphilis. But the it 183 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: was blackmails that had syphilis already and then there's also 184 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: a control group, and they essentially just wanted to see 185 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: what would happen over the time with syphilis and these men. 186 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: And they they didn't deny them treatment, did they. It 187 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: was they didn't. Uh, they didn't let them know that 188 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: penicillin could treat syphilis, and it could and it could 189 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: have they could have saved their lives exactly, but they didn't. 190 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: And uh, this is interesting. IO. I owe an apology. 191 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: We issue a correction about this because when we first 192 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: talked about it, I say that the Public Health Service 193 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: infected these people, and in the c d CES upside 194 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: it says they didn't. So we did issue a correction. 195 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: But I had I had a couple of people on 196 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: YouTube coming up and saying, no, I'm related to someone 197 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: there they were infected with syphilis by the government. So well, 198 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: that's one of those things. Do you trust the government source? 199 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't. We We kind of ride 200 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: that fine line between wanting to take what what's said 201 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: and kind of use it in conjunction with other information. 202 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: It's a tough spot for us to really know what 203 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: the truth is. Yeah, well, we we do try to 204 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: make sure that we can find it it is. It 205 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: is a good point, Matt. It can be difficult at 206 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: times to discern where the truth is in in between 207 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: varying accounts, you know. Uh So, with all due respect 208 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: everybody involved, I think the best thing that we can 209 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: say is that we have conflicting reports, but the official 210 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: story is that the people already had syphilis. Now we're 211 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: building up to them. Probably the most well known periods 212 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: of modern human experimentation, that side World War Two. Man, 213 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: that's that's where are things. That's where it gets crazy. Then, yes, 214 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: that's where it gets crazy. Concentration camp experiments. This is 215 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: something that everybody probably knows about. I would be surprised 216 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: if someone was a fan of our show and did 217 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: not know that multiple scientists across various concentration camps like 218 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: dock Ow, uh Sastenhausen, not Spidler, buken Walden, more, you 219 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: can bold and more, we're conducting just diabolical, fiendish experiments 220 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: on completely innocent people. Um. When you're looking at everything 221 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: from extreme temperatures, looking at hypothermia, hypothermia, UM, pressure chambers. 222 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's some pretty crazy stuff, trying to 223 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: look at the human body and altitude and like, how 224 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: what are the thresholds for the human body? Um, You're 225 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: looking at diseases and actions typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, even gases, 226 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: mustard gas. Uh. They Now this case, we do know 227 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 1: it is unambiguously true that the scientists in this case 228 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: did deliberately affect people with diseases. UM. Now you know 229 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: one of the most infamous of these people is a 230 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: fellow named Josef Mengele at Auswitz. Uh. He he was 231 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: The way that we have it here um is that 232 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: he was torturing people under the guise of medicine. Um. 233 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: But as we look at some of his experiments, his 234 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: science wasn't that great. No, it's the confirmation biased thing, 235 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: trying to trying to prove his his ideological beliefs right 236 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: through this experimentation about races. I mean it's really deeply 237 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: seated in racism, is it not. Yeah, Yeah, it's really 238 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: deeply seated in his idea of proving that um an 239 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: aryan man us to race was somehow superior to other people. 240 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: So as founding principles run sound, which made his science unsound. Uh. 241 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: He had one thing we should mention. Uh. He had 242 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: a number of obsessions. Probably the most well known would 243 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: be his obsession with twins. Um do twins, Uh experience 244 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: each other's emotions? If something happens, to which win will 245 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: the other one be aware? Um oregan transplants experimented with 246 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: as well. Apparently there are a lot of grizzly things 247 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: that happened to one twin and perhaps not to the other, 248 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: and one survived. That's really crazy stuff. Yeah, And just 249 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: as an example to show how off his science was, 250 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: he would have experiments where he had this concussion or 251 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: head injury experiment where they just had this kid being 252 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: hit over and over in the head with a hammer. 253 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: Good god, kind of well to see what happens, which 254 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: is such a strange question. You know, what happens when 255 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: you just get hit in the head with a hammer. 256 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: You know, let's find out just forever one and a hammer. Yeah, 257 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: and this pales and you know, we're not making light 258 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: of this, If anything, we're indicting the guy for um 259 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: going so far with such bad science. Um, but yeah, 260 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one. Was. The Germans were not 261 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: the only people doing experimentations at the time. The UM 262 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: Japan also had a little bout with human experimentation. That's 263 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: of course Unit seven thirty one that was headed by 264 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: shiro Ishi and that was founded in nineteen thirty two 265 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: and it was active from nineteen thirty seven to nineteen 266 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: and um there again lots of experiments with chemicals, with 267 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: biological agents against stuff to poison, like exposing people to 268 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: poisonous substances and extreme temperatures again, more vivisection and even 269 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, diseases like the bubonic plague. Now they were 270 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: top secret right at the time. Yeah, that was found 271 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: out later. This is this. Uh, these two cases are 272 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: interesting because um, some of the members of Unit thirty 273 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: one had diplomatic immunity at the close of the war 274 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: because the idea was that their experiments um, as messed 275 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: up as they were and how or as horrific as 276 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: they were, their experiments did have some sort of scientific 277 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: merit and most importantly they could never be repeated. Yeah, 278 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: but that information was important, like you said, and what 279 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: happened to it. Funny story. Funny story about what happened 280 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: to it. We know what happened to uh, some of it. 281 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: We know that a lot of it did end up 282 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: in the United States and informed later epidemiological research on 283 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: our end. We also know that a lot of its 284 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: state classified. So what's your take on that using using 285 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: the information that came directly from the suffering of people. Well, 286 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: to be candid with you, and that is a great 287 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: question to be candid with you. I think that it's Ah, 288 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: it's our possibility as people to use that kind of 289 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: information if there's a way to prevent further deaths. Um, 290 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: what about you? Actually, I think we I think it 291 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: is our responsibility also to have that information because that's 292 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: information that could be when you look at something with 293 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: the extreme temperatures. Let's just take that as an example, 294 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: all right, imagine how that probably has informed things like 295 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: clothing for extreme temperatures. UM, trauma. Yeah right, I mean 296 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: there there are great things that will eventually come out 297 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: of it, as horrible as it is, and hopefully will 298 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: never happen again. That one time that it happened in 299 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties that we know of that we know 300 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: of we've gained a lot of information and it's terror 301 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: it's horrible to think about it. Well, yeah, that's and 302 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: you know, that's a fair point. There's an ongoing debate 303 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: today about whether the day provided by these experiments is 304 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: useful or if so, to what degree. And there are 305 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: people who will say that it wasn't useful at all. 306 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: But as we found out, if we turn from that 307 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: chapter of history and go just a little bit further 308 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: into the future, Um, we go to St. Louis. Oh, yeah, 309 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: an old St. Louis in nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, 310 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: in the early days of the Cold War, the army 311 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: arrived in St. Louis and began spraying zinc cadmium sulfide 312 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: on children and families. Yeah. And uh, these these poor, 313 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: unfortunate folks were from the Pruitt Ego housing projects. So 314 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: again we see the pattern of taking advantage of the 315 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: disenfranchised to the poor. Um to see how this would 316 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: how this would work out? Um, do you want to 317 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: talk about another this is it feels weird saying that 318 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: this is one of our favorites because it's such a 319 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: grizzly thing to discuss. Yeah, yeah, um, mk Ultra, I mean, yes, sir, 320 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: Well that's this one. This one is fascinating to me 321 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: obviously because there are you can read some of the 322 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: reports on the information from this, they declassified information. So 323 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: this the mk Ultra is the c I a program 324 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: where LSD was used to test essentially essentially psychology. Yeah, 325 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: finger quotes around tests there. Yeah, this is true. But 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: this is this is the infamous one that you've probably 327 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: heard about. You may have heard of Project Artichoke. We 328 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: did a whole series on Artichoke, which was I believe 329 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: the predecessor of mk Ultra. Yeah. Mk Ultra had a 330 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: couple of predecessors, and it had a couple of sub programs. 331 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: The ideas were that some of the ideas were things like, 332 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: will LSD function as a truth serum? Or will l 333 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: s D allow us to make a Manchurian candidate, to 334 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: compel somebody to do something that they would not usually do. 335 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: But they just went not with it. They went nuts 336 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: and bananas with it. They were dosing everybody and their mom. 337 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: They were dosing you know, they were getting prostitutes to 338 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: pull guys over and like a honey pot trap and 339 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: then dosing those guys. They were dosing each other. They 340 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: were doing a little joking, Hey I dosed you. I know, 341 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: we're having this dinner party, but which you know, quickly 342 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: becomes more of a portrait of an agency out of control, 343 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: um than any kind of rigorous human experimentation. Although there 344 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: was a sort of merit to what they were doing 345 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: because they did learn valuable things. Um, But then I 346 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: think they went out of control with it, and that 347 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: is just we're just scratching the surface. We're just touching 348 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: on some of the more well known human experimentation examples. Uh, 349 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: there's psychological stuff that could not be repeated today, like 350 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: the Stanford prison experiment, um, the or the Milgram experiment 351 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: I believe, and the Stanford prison one is where they 352 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: took some students, they divided them into prison guards and prisoners, right, Yeah, 353 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: and it quickly it was found out that when you 354 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: when you play someone in a position of power at 355 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: the guards, they take on this other so um, just 356 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: these qualities that that hadn't been really observed before. How 357 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: quickly that those qualities were taken in Yeah, and to 358 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: such an extreme degree, to the point of being abusive 359 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: to the pseudo prisoners and so on. You know, what's 360 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: what's always startling to me about the psychological experiments And 361 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: I have a question for you about these later, But 362 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: what's always startling to me is that it calls to 363 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: mind how much the human mind is like water and 364 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: it conforms to its container. And the containers would be 365 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: the roles, uh, that society gives us or that we 366 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: give ourselves. So there's there's so many implications about this. 367 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: You know, what kind of what kind of container do 368 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: you put somebody in socially if you want them to 369 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: be successful? What do you do if you want them 370 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: to fail? And how do we apply that knowledge? This 371 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: is what I'm thinking about during the HR meetings. Man, 372 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: you guys can't see this, but Ben Ben looks at 373 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: me so intensely sometimes when he's saying these things. It's 374 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: it's incredible. You you have to do it one day. 375 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: You have to sit across from Ben. H. I would 376 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: highly recommend it. Oh man, Uh, that's that's weird. Man. 377 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe some people in the audience have already set 378 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: across from us in disguise, right what, it's all part 379 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: of our experiment. There were also epidemiological experiments. This is 380 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: when you told me about, Matt. Oh, yeah, this is 381 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: the this is Operation Big Buzz Wow. Okay, so this 382 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: is where Mosquito it was. It was tested whether or 383 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: not mosquitoes would be a good weapon. If you weaponize 384 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: the mosquitoes by infecting them with yellow fever and then 385 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: you send out this massive swarm of mosquitoes on your enemies, 386 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: everybody gets yellow fever over there. Um, let's see if 387 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: this works. So it was tested in Georgia actually nineteen 388 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: and um, I don't know. It just seemed like a 389 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: crazy idea to me. It sounds like an interesting idea. Yeah, 390 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: it's and you know if from a tactical perspective, it's 391 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: it's smart warfare. If it would work, it's interesting. Ben. 392 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: It makes me think about the West Nile outbreak that 393 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: happened in a couple of different places, and it was 394 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: largely thought that mosquitoes were the carriers of the West 395 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: Nile virus. Hum. I don't know. It just makes me think, oh, dude, 396 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: is somebody send some West ni house Quito's over here? Man. Well, 397 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: if you think about it, it's I mean, it makes 398 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: sense that a country or a government would want to 399 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: learn how to propagate things that way, because that's how 400 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: Mosquito has already been doing it for you know, thousands 401 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: of years, millions of years. Maybe, so it's I think 402 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: it's smart. I think it's ethnically questionable. Um, we should 403 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: probably we should probably save some of the radiation experiments 404 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: for another day. But just to just to make it clear. 405 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: For instance, um, with radiation, these are things like exposing 406 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: children who are orphans, were disabled to rods of radioactive 407 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: material may be inserted in their nose or their septum. Uh, 408 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, see what happens. Just for funzies, Radiation poisoning 409 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: is what happens. Radiation poisoning is what happens. Uh. You 410 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: can read a fairly comprehensive history of some of these 411 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: experiments online if you especially if you do radiation experiments 412 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: United States, Cold War, you'll find some you'll find some 413 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: amazing stuff. But we are going to wrap up by 414 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: pointing out a place where this kind of experimentation is 415 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: still going on today. Isn't that right? Matter? Yes, then 416 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: we have to head over to the old DPRK, North Korea, 417 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: and we've got some crazy information. They're a defector. Is 418 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: that say this is still going on in prison camps. Yes. Uh, 419 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: one of those defectors being a guy named Dr Kim, 420 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: one of the three research scientists working with the blessing 421 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: of the leadership and the Workers Party which kind of 422 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: runs the country. Uh. He testified that he had developed 423 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: a chemical weapon that was cyanide mixed with another compound 424 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: and experimented with it on on people who are caught 425 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: in a place called Camp twenty two, which is a 426 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: notorious prison camp. Future historians are going to be baffled 427 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: and probably sickened by the concentration camp situation in North Korea. Geopolitically, Uh, 428 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: it's such that no other countries rushing in to help 429 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: these people. But for a long time, these rumors of 430 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: human tests and were just that rumors. But now a 431 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: scientist who defected from there is saying um that that 432 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: it is all true, and his stories are backed up 433 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: with facts as confirmed by intelligence agents. And it's especially 434 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: important to know that Camp twenty two is just one 435 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: of tons. I don't know how many exactly there are, 436 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: it's it's secret, but there are a lot of them. 437 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: And we're going to do an episode on North Korea 438 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: to so stay tuned for that one. But when we 439 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: get to the question of what else could be going 440 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: on right now, Well, we can't really know. Nope, there's 441 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: a there's a culture of secrecy that makes it difficult 442 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: to know for sure until after the fact. But we 443 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: do We do know that human experimentation continues, hopefully in 444 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: a more ethical way. Um. And pretty much every every 445 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: region of the world. The United States has DARPA, you know, 446 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: we have other experiments or other experimentation centers in Russia 447 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: and China and Japan. Across the world, people are experimenting 448 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: on human beings, hopefully in a more ethnic a way. UM. 449 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: That I have to ask you about the future. All right, 450 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: I'm ready. So do you think that technology could ever 451 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: reach a point where human experimentation is unnecessary? Absolutely? Okay? 452 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: How well, I think it will be a combination of 453 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: computer models of the human body and how one functions, 454 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: and something to do with possibly creating a human that 455 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily a human. So a body that isn't necessarily 456 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: considered a human. Perhaps it doesn't have a brain, or 457 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: perhaps it doesn't it only has a central nervous system 458 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: that can be tested. Now here's my question, you, ben, Okay, 459 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: if we could make that kind of being a a 460 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: corpse body that's alive. Would you be okay with testing 461 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: on it? Um? You know, I would probably be more 462 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: comfortable with it if it were made a piece meal. 463 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: If there were, you know, it'd be much less ethically difficult. 464 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: I think to conduct experiments on a human heart by itself, 465 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: or a foot or toe or and I I know 466 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: that's grizzly. But the idea, the idea of making a 467 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: whole body and just taking away the brain. I don't 468 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: know if that it makes me question my own idea 469 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: because if it doesn't have a brain, how do we 470 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: know how the singles are being interpreted? And that's usually 471 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: the most important thing, Like what what are the effects 472 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: on the human and the way you find that out 473 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: is through the brain. Well, what about then, a virtual 474 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: simulation of a human being with such fidelity that you 475 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: could you could treat it exactly like virtual models, So 476 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have the hands on experience, but would you 477 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: would know the effects of different things. You just have 478 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: to be able to code those effects, right, Yeah, which 479 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: means you might have to have a person to begin with. Yeah. 480 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Okay, so we're gonna leave it 481 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: up to you. Guys. We know that we and a 482 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: little bit long on this, but I like this episode, Matt, 483 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: because we went from hidden history, one of our favorite things, 484 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: to the precipice of the future. Right, that's right and 485 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: beyond and beyond. Uh and speaking beyond, we are going 486 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: to head out and go beyond the studio here, guys, 487 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: thanks so much for tuning in. We hope that you 488 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: are enjoying our new show. We'd love to hear from you. 489 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: Give us some ideas for upcoming topics, let us know 490 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: some of your perspectives on human experimentation, or you know, 491 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: just say what's up. Give me a shout out if 492 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: you want to talk to us. Heading over to Facebook, 493 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: we are conspiracy Stuff. You can also find us on Twitter. 494 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: We are at conspiracy Stuff. You can go to our 495 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: YouTube channel, which is YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff 496 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: or test tube dot com. Again, I think that one 497 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: you have to go just find stuff they don't want 498 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: you to know on test Tube. Yeah, so many, so 499 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: many different dot coms than Internet. We're on Google t Yeah, 500 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: we're apparently on Google Plus. We should probably get a tumbler. 501 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: Um we're gonna start binding. It's gonna be crazy. Oh man, Yeah, 502 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: let's just always do vide videos. You can also email 503 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: us directly. We are conspiracy at Discovery dot com. From 504 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: more on this topic, another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube 505 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in 506 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: touch on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.