1
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in the East Village in Manhattan in nine.

2
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: I was born in nine and I came of age

3
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: really in the early nineties in an era of crack

4
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:23,800
Speaker 1: and the city was dead broke. I grew up with

5
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: a mom who was a single, very outside the system human,

6
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: so we never had any money, and my whole block

7
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:38,120
Speaker 1: was low income housing. I was born opposite a seven

8
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: person men's shelter. On the corner was a group home

9
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 1: for boys, which was like a stepping stone to their

10
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 1: future life. Across the street on the next block was

11
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: the Hell's Angels headquarters. So you have this confluence of

12
00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: wildness and poverty and crime, and the police called our

13
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 1: block the asshole of the universe because it was just

14
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 1: the meeting point, that conjunction of every shitty, crazy, insane

15
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: thing that could happen. But the East Village, you know,

16
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 1: we were two blocks from CBGBs, which is the birthplace

17
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: of punk music. Jean Michel Basquez Studio was on the

18
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 1: next block, and Nan Golden, who's my godmother, was around

19
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,759
Speaker 1: the block. So they all came there to make weird

20
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,759
Speaker 1: avant garde movies and make No Way of music and

21
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 1: make punk and make strange paintings and do cocaine and

22
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 1: sell whatever weird ship they wanted to sell and reinvent

23
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: their identities. And I was just trying to figure out

24
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 1: how to have a play date. They chose to be there,

25
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: and I was born there. When I was a little kid,

26
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: it was just me and my mom. We were a team,

27
00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: and I could find her, I could reach for her,

28
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: I could say something, she would hear me. We lived

29
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: in a house full of hand me downs, all my

30
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: closer hand me downs. We would we got a mattress

31
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 1: from her friend. Everything was self invented and created. But

32
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 1: we would play together. We'd go up on the roof

33
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 1: together and and make up imaginary stories and games. And

34
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: if I had an idea for something, I wanted to

35
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: start a newspaper. She'd started with me, you know, like

36
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 1: she was chief of a tribe of two. And I

37
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: loved her for it, and I respected her for it,

38
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 1: and I trusted her judgment. And then something happened where

39
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 1: she changed, And I remember the first night I saw

40
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,679
Speaker 1: her change from alcohol, and she put her fist through

41
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 1: a window and started screaming, and there was just a

42
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,360
Speaker 1: blackness that came into her eyes, and I couldn't find

43
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: her anymore, and she was my only connectivity to the

44
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 1: outside world. So I lived a life with a person

45
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 1: who never sat down. Her thing is I don't sit

46
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 1: down to this day, only rides a bike everywhere, does

47
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 1: not will not sit down. So we walked, and we'd

48
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,639
Speaker 1: walk from Third Street straight and I'm seven, eight nine

49
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,480
Speaker 1: years old, walking, you know, from fifty seven street to

50
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: street to rehearsal at eight pm, and then rehearsing some

51
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,359
Speaker 1: terrible off Broadway garbage production of Oliver Twist or Charlotte's Web,

52
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: and then walking home at midnight, and like not knowing

53
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 1: whether or not the lights are going to be on

54
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: when we get there because funk the man. She doesn't

55
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: pay electric bills. And we have a cable running out

56
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 1: the window to the neighbor to keep like one lamp on,

57
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: but forget the fridge. I didn't learn how to use

58
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 1: silver ware till I was thirteen years old. Like I

59
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 1: was raised a wolf child, and I wasn't allowed to

60
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: close any doors. I wouldn't allowed to have keys to

61
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 1: my own house. I was seventeen, things got pretty dark.

62
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes would just lay in the bathtub and whale crying

63
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 1: out for Billy, the love she lost three years before

64
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 1: I was born. Other times she'd black out and threatened

65
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 1: to hurt herself. I had to call the cops a

66
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: few times to make sure she didn't. I found out

67
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: much later that she had been taking a prescription drug,

68
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 1: an upper. And what I didn't know until I was

69
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 1: nineteen was that the particular drug that she took, when

70
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,280
Speaker 1: mixed with alcohol, produces textbook psychotic behavior. And man, when

71
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,839
Speaker 1: it says as a side effect, this produces psychotic behavior,

72
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 1: you know it's bad. So that was my childhood, was

73
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,360
Speaker 1: psychotic behavior. And I never knew which version of her

74
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: was going to come home or pick me up from

75
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: school or drop me off at a play. So I

76
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 1: grew up in a environment where I was entirely at

77
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,839
Speaker 1: the mercy of somebody else's moods. Who was simultaneously my

78
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 1: greatest protector and my greatest antagonist. How did you learn

79
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: about Billy? I don't remember a time in my life

80
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,480
Speaker 1: when I didn't know about Billy. Billy was the person

81
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 1: who my mom sang to at night. Billy was the

82
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,840
Speaker 1: person who my mom talked to when she was cooking,

83
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 1: and she would talk about him in this mythological way

84
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: where he was just the best thing that ever happened

85
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: to her, and she didn't entertain any bullshit notions of

86
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,200
Speaker 1: him being a prince. She's really into the fact that

87
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 1: he was raw. And my mom never told me anything

88
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: about her childhood, never told me anything about my grandparents,

89
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,080
Speaker 1: never told me anything about my dad, never told me

90
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 1: anything about anything historical. So I grew up knowing that

91
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 1: she was a forward facing person. She looked towards the

92
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: future only, and later I realized her survival depended on it.

93
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 1: But the one exception to that rule was always Billy,

94
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,839
Speaker 1: and it felt like that was because he still lived

95
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: with her, like he hadn't died, his body had moved on.

96
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: But I remember as a little kid thinking, has she

97
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: transferred her love for him to me? Does she think

98
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:43,159
Speaker 1: that I am him reincarnated? And when I started to

99
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: process the timing of it that there was solid, like

100
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: two and a half year window between his death and

101
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: my birth, I was like, oh my God, Like what

102
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,679
Speaker 1: if she thinks that I'm Billy reincarnate? The timing is eerie.

103
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 1: The timing is very eerie because there's some spirit floating around.

104
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 1: It just needs a little human body to crawl into.

105
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 1: Did I do? And I know who that spirit is?

106
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 1: That would be fucking crazy. So who was this person

107
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: who might be a part of me from Crimetown? I'm

108
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: io till it right? And this is the ballad of

109
00:07:47,640 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: Billy Balls? He said, can you come down to identify

110
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:09,679
Speaker 1: the body? A William Heisman? And I just of course

111
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 1: went into this white and I would like to not

112
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 1: remember that feeling cuisine evening this stopped. It was you

113
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:45,479
Speaker 1: being worn all right? Chapter three, Billy the Kid, Hi, Hi, Hi,

114
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 1: give me a hug, bloody Hi. To nail down some

115
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: basic facts about Billy, we went back to the only

116
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,679
Speaker 1: source we had, my mom. What year was Billy born?

117
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,960
Speaker 1: In nineteen He was born in Red Bank, Sandy Hook,

118
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: m What are the Sandy Hook? Rib Bank, New Jersey?

119
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,560
Speaker 1: And his father was a Prohibition like rum runner with

120
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: a boat across from Jersey to New York. And he

121
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,960
Speaker 1: lifted an engine off of some guy and he just

122
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: picked it up with his bare hands, an engine and

123
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: because such hernia that he died from hernia. His sweet mother,

124
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 1: this little tiny woman, she lived in Maine with his

125
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 1: half brother. And that's all I know. Not a lot

126
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: to go on. But I started digging through public records.

127
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 1: From what we know about his family, his parents are dead,

128
00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 1: his dad died, his mom died in no ninet. If

129
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: he had an older brother, which we heard from both

130
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 1: my mom and the records, that he probably did have

131
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,440
Speaker 1: an older brother, that older brother would have been that

132
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,319
Speaker 1: kid was born in the twenties at least, so he

133
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 1: would have been at least twenty years older than Billy,

134
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 1: who would have been seventy four now. So that guy

135
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,079
Speaker 1: would be nearing hundreds. So the likelihood of the brother

136
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: being alive is very slim. This thing on? Is this

137
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,200
Speaker 1: about to be emotional Christmas? A few days later, Austin

138
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 1: pulled me into the studio history a little bit? Did

139
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,760
Speaker 1: you find more about him? This is all? Oh my god.

140
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,439
Speaker 1: So I'm holding right now like a stack of papers.

141
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Alright. So the earliest thing that I

142
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 1: found that I think is Billy is this in the

143
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: Red Bank Register, which was the local newspaper. My mom

144
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 1: was fucking right, Red Bank, New Jersey, Red Bank, New Jersey.

145
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 1: Oh dude. Mr and Mrs John Heightsman of Wall Street

146
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,559
Speaker 1: are parents of a son born Sunday at Monmouth Memorial

147
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: Hospital Billy was born on January to Norah Bell and

148
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 1: John Heightsman of Red Bank, New Jersey. But just two

149
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 1: years later, John Heightsman, forty Riverdale, av Monmouth Beach died

150
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 1: early this morning at the Monmouth Memorial Hospital. Surviving are

151
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: his parents and one son, William Heightsman Jr. Of Red Bank.

152
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 1: Doesn't say how he died, but that was seven, so

153
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,720
Speaker 1: John Billy was very young. Billy's dad died when Billy

154
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,440
Speaker 1: was only two years old. He never knew his father.

155
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 1: So and then I just found a bunch of very

156
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 1: cute things about Billy. So from Oakland Street School children

157
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 1: performed for p t A No. He was seven, singing

158
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: Boy's little Oh Billy Heightsman, Oh my God? What else?

159
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 1: See how I'm gonna barf? June nine fifty four, Ms.

160
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,440
Speaker 1: Lillian Tahune presented her piano pupils Piano Pupils in a

161
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 1: concert Thursday night at the Women's Club There. It is

162
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 1: Billy Heightsman. Billy had taken piano lessons and one honors

163
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,520
Speaker 1: in a state competition, and he was an artist in

164
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: other ways. To bicycle safety poster contest, Billy Heightsman first prize.

165
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: He won first prize in a bicycle safety poster contest.

166
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,640
Speaker 1: So I've started to look up people all of these names.

167
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 1: Just let me see that again, people who might have

168
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 1: known him. Hello, this is rich Drimus in Red Bank. Oh,

169
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for calling me back. Are you

170
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,080
Speaker 1: the right person? Yes, I guess I am. What's up.

171
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 1: Do you recognize the name William Heightsman, Yeah, you do.

172
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 1: Billy Heisman, Yes, she lived a better block away. Good.

173
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:37,360
Speaker 1: Rich Drimas was friends with Billy in elementary school. Pretty smart? Um, friendly? Uh,

174
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,760
Speaker 1: you're digging back in my computer here, pretty far. He

175
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 1: lived with his mother. I'm not sure whether his father

176
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: died during the war. He had a much older brother, Wow,

177
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,840
Speaker 1: his brother. His older brother used to take a bunch

178
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,200
Speaker 1: of us guys out into the woods and have us

179
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 1: Bill lean too. What was Red Bank like? My street

180
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: was pretty quiet, and the one I'm on right now

181
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: I still live in the same house. Um. You could

182
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: play ball in the streets in the evening, hide and

183
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: go seek, and it's pretty quiet. There was a place

184
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,439
Speaker 1: called the y m c A where on fighting Saturday

185
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 1: nights they play recorded music you know from the fifties

186
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: rock and roll, and have dances. There were about three

187
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,000
Speaker 1: or four of us that were friends that lived within

188
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: three or four blocks of each other. Um, do you

189
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 1: remember any other of the names of those friends? I'm

190
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: sure Owen Jones Clancy Poynton, Hello, Hello, I'm looking for

191
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 1: the Clancy Poynton who went to uh Oakland Street School

192
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 1: in Red Jersey. I'm the guy you're talking to. Do

193
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 1: you remember somebody named William Heightsman. You know you won't

194
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: believe this, but I just was about three days ago

195
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: reliving a memory of Billy Heightsmans. We just calling Billy.

196
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't William Moise calling Billy, but this this year

197
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 1: he was an incredibly, uh unbelievable person. Clancy says that

198
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,440
Speaker 1: even back in elementary school, Billy's behavior was extreme. Once

199
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 1: he came to Oakland Street School wrapped in a Nazi

200
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 1: flag that his brother had secured during the war. By

201
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: the way, Billy was Jewish, and it was a big one.

202
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: It was like a twelve foot Nazi flag and they

203
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 1: didn't quite know what to do with it was and

204
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: it was politically incorrect at that point. This is back

205
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 1: in the fifties, you know. And the teacher said, well,

206
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, and then somehow it just

207
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 1: kind of went away. And when Billy went to high school,

208
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: his penchant from making trouble got a little louder. I

209
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 1: remember in Red Back there was this place called Marine

210
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: Park where all these uh boats were, and I mean

211
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 1: there are people with a lot of money there, you know,

212
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: the nicest part of town. One day, me, my friend

213
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 1: Mike or are walking down there to Marine Park and

214
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: here comes Billy in a might have been a convertible

215
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 1: Jaguar like at two jag And you could tell that

216
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 1: it had been in the fire or something, okay, because

217
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: the entire thing was like burnout and and they had

218
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 1: the mufflers were taken off this thing because it was

219
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 1: so loud. You could hear Billy at the top of

220
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 1: the hill. So we're down at the bottom marine party,

221
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you hear Billy Heightsman coming mo.

222
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,719
Speaker 1: These guys are playing shove aboard and they just like

223
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean, they dive, they dive with the courts. It's

224
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 1: a explosion or bombs were coming in. Bill. He swings

225
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: around and he's got one of those scars that are

226
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: like a you know, the old airplane, you know, guys

227
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,680
Speaker 1: back in the h World War One used to wear

228
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: you have the white scarfield flight out. He just two

229
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,880
Speaker 1: circles around Marne Park and he just drove it home

230
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 1: a little a little slamboyant. What I remember of him,

231
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 1: it was very independent. Very Uh. They wouldn't say there's

232
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: the kind of guy that never fit in, but I

233
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 1: just wanted to say they kind of guy preferred to

234
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,479
Speaker 1: be alone. When did you lose touch with Billy? Can?

235
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: I ask? Oh? It must have been early in high school.

236
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know whether he graduated, And say, I

237
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,400
Speaker 1: graduated in sixty two from Red Bank. Hi, I did

238
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 1: he graduate? I saw some hot yearbook photos in there.

239
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 1: Did you fucking find Billy's yearbook? Yeah? See if you

240
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 1: can find him Bill Heitzman, Oh yeah, fucking of course. Wow.

241
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 1: Doesn't he look like he has an attitude? Yeah? It

242
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 1: looks like a little greaser. He's got like full fifties

243
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 1: teddy boy hair. So this is from his sophomore year

244
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: in high school. This is the yearbook from six. I

245
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 1: looked in the yearbook for Xe. Not in it. Two,

246
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 1: not in it. But I think I might know why.

247
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 1: The first thing that I actually found when I started

248
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 1: looking for his ship. It was an article FBI nabs

249
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 1: youth in Florida hold up. A fifteen year old Red

250
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: Bank youth was arrested on Cedar av You last night

251
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 1: by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in connection with a

252
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,360
Speaker 1: hold up of a shoe store. William Height spin from

253
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,959
Speaker 1: Maple av and Hans Uto Weinert, address unknown are charged

254
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: with the hold up, which netted sevent hundred dollars. Oh

255
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:25,360
Speaker 1: my fucking god. Listen, when I was sixteen, I sold

256
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: aspirin as ecstasy. Like getting picked up by the FBI

257
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: when you're fifteen, that is very impressive. Also, who's Hans

258
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 1: Uto Weinert. I'm pretty sure he's dead, but I am

259
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 1: also pretty sure that I found his children. That's after

260
00:19:53,400 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: the break. Hello, yes, sir, I gotta call him here.

261
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 1: A little while ago. This is Rogers Want. Roderick's father,

262
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 1: Hans was listed as Billy's accomplice in that shoe store robbery. Yeah,

263
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: that is that is my father. Did your father ever

264
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: talk about an incident where he robbed a shoe store

265
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 1: in Florida? Sure? Ed mm hmmm. He basically, I mean

266
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,439
Speaker 1: I was a kid when he told me about it.

267
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 1: He said that, uh, I think the owner of the

268
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 1: shoe store and had a lot to do with it.

269
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 1: He was gonna tie him up and rob him and

270
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 1: make it look like a robbery. I'm a little confused.

271
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: So the owner of the shoe store was he had

272
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: my father tied him up to make it look like

273
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: a robbery. That's exactly what happened. I don't know if

274
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: that we're gonna split the money or what, you know,

275
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. So then the FBI got involved and

276
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 1: they put pressure on the guy, and they told the

277
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: owner of the shoe store, and he told him would

278
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 1: really happened before my father got a restaurant. He didn't,

279
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: He didn't go to prison or anything. I'll tell you

280
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 1: that the FBI dropped the charges against both Billy and Hans.

281
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 1: I find that he pretty much got off on it.

282
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: He went onto the Tama chemist and everything. I got

283
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: a masters degree in chemistry. But Billy, he became a

284
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: master pissing off the cops. William Heights been seven Maple.

285
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: Alf Red Bank was charged with careless driving and having

286
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 1: noisy mufflers happen after an accident at Oceanic Bridge yesterday,

287
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: so he would have been about eighteen, he's driving around

288
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: around mufflers. So this one is from a month later.

289
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: Where my fucking christ, he got fined again. Yeah, he

290
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: got another ten dollar fine two or three weeks after that.

291
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 1: Oh my fucking comment. Around this time, William Heightsman disappeared

292
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: from the records. Years later, he re emerged in New

293
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: York City at the Pepmde Lounge in Midtown. Billy was

294
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: there and he was looking for a band to play

295
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: with him. This is Gregor Laroc, a musician who met

296
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: Billy when he first arrived in New York. What year

297
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: was that? Do you think I would say? What was

298
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: Billy like back then? Um? First of all, his image,

299
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: the way that he dressed with a tuxedo, well tux pants,

300
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: and then these gigantic boots that looked like Mickey Mouse,

301
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: kind of like bulbous in the front. And then he

302
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: sprayed into them pink and he called himself Romeo Love.

303
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't it wasn't Billy Boss, hey man,

304
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: Romeo Love. And then he do this weird thing. You know,

305
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: you go shake his hand and he do that thing

306
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: with the middle finger in your palm and you go, oh,

307
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: and he give you that look like, hey, man, like

308
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: what you know? It's like that? And he had a

309
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: hearse that was a black at the believe it was

310
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: black with his huge red hearts on it. It's like

311
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: a cartoon. He could be funny and entertaining and all that,

312
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: but you're not gonna go and mess with a guy.

313
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: You know. He just knew just by looking at him

314
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: and talking and you know what I mean, you're not

315
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: gonna mess with him. Our relationship was just it was

316
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: really really into playing music. We hooked up and we

317
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: started doing gigs. At one time Jerry, this was at

318
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: a loft where we rehearsed. Gregor was rehearsing with Billy

319
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: and Jerry Nolan, who would go on to be a

320
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: drummer for the New York Dolls. Yes, Jerry Knowlan to

321
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: go and get something for him in his suitcase. Jerry

322
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: six is hand and he goes, men, you're not gonna

323
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: believe it. Stuck my hand there? What I see going?

324
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: He was, I pulled down. That's a gun. It's still

325
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: he's gun. Yeah. Why do you think Billy would have

326
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: a gun? Gregor? Because of all the different things that

327
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: he would get in who I guess do you remember

328
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: anything around when you found out that Billy was killed. Um,

329
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: I just thought it was like a big shock, you know,

330
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: that that he died. What was the impression of what

331
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: had happened? That it was a truck deal gone bad,

332
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: and that he pulled out a gun and he got shot.

333
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: That's what I heard. Was there any impression of who

334
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: had shot him? Uh, you mean the person's name, No, sure,

335
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: the person's name, or a sense of like if that

336
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: person was a dealer or undercover cop. But I don't know.

337
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: This matched up with what my mom told us in

338
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: chapter two, So I went back to her to dig

339
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: a bit deeper. How did really make money? How do

340
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: really make money? Well? In many different ways, like like

341
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: shows fronting and offering merchandise at various kinds. What kind

342
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: of merchandise, cars, musical instruments, amplifiers, etcetera, toll and ship,

343
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: do you find it, you sell it? You people bring

344
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: you shit, you sell it, etcetera. You know, did you

345
00:26:51,920 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: ever sell anything else? Like what like drugs? Are we

346
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 1: turning the microphone off? I was asked to get dope

347
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: for a very wealthy politician, and that's how I got

348
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: Billy to score for me. That's next time. On the

349
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: Ballad of Billy Balls, Crime Town is Zack Stewart Antier

350
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: and Mark Smirling. The Ballad of Billy Balls is hosted

351
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: by me Io till It Right and made in partnership

352
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: with Caden's Thirteen. You can find me on the internet.

353
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm Io loves you on everything, and if you want

354
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: to know more about my story, you can pick up

355
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: my memoir Darling Days. We want to hear from you.

356
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: We have a voicemail set up for you to call us.

357
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: Here's a lovely message from last week. You just said

358
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: that she was your mom, and I'm in my car

359
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: and I just said what I just stopped? This is crazy.

360
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: I hope you find it. Pone you're looking for your

361
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: mom is amazing. I wish I could meet her. My

362
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: name is Michel, I'm in Ohio and I'm gonna take

363
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: care of I'm sure a lot of you have mysteries

364
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: in your own families or things this podcasts make you

365
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: think about. We want to know what they are. Call

366
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: us and leave us a voicemail at five seven oh three,

367
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: nine to six oh. We'll play another next week. A

368
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: lot of you have been asking for photos of Billy

369
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: and Rebecca. You can find them on our website, The

370
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: Ballad of Billy Balls dot Com, and you'll find a

371
00:28:53,480 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: discussion board too. The show is produced by Me, Kevin

372
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 1: Sheppard and Ryan Swigert. Our senior producers Austin Mitchell, editing

373
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: by Zack Stewart Pontier and Mark Smerling, fact checking by

374
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Jennifer Blackman. This episode was mixed and sound designed by

375
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: Sam Bear. Music by Kenny qc Yak. Our title track

376
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: is Dark Allies by Light Asylum. Archival research by Brennan Reese.

377
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: Thanks to Daniella Aria, Rachel Lee Wright, Emily Wiedemann, Green

378
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: Card Pictures, Alessandro Sentauro, Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, Orne Rosenbaum,

379
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: and the team at Cadence thirteen, and of course, Rebecca,

380
00:29:50,280 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: without whom none of this would be possible. Ms SM