WEBVTT - Ruthie's Table 4: Jamie Oliver (Part 01) 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.000 Adamized Studios. 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.200 Hi, everyone, hope you well. Sorry to be familiar. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.040 just am because I'm ill. They always look like. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.680 He's quite familiar, is that guy? 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:31.200 Hell? 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.080 I can't say how many times when arriving in the 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.520 River Cafe in a taxi the driver will turned around 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.400 to me and say, is this the restaurant where Jamie 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.120 Oliver cooked the other day? One even informed me that 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.560 the River Cafe was owned by Jamie, and I thought, 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.440 why correct him? He is a prodigal son or the 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.720 brother who knows that when he walks in the door 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:57.160 of the restaurant, he is. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.960 Home, not the old day. When was the last time 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:01.279 you're here? 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.160 I try and get here at least two or three 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.959 times a year if I'm lucky, and I have to say, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.240 it's a bit like therapy really see Charles. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.440 Which always makes me very happy. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:12.960 We normally go through the same old jokes and then 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.920 crack onto a bit of new news, friends and family. 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:17.760 But there's lots of nostalgia, isn't there. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:19.480 I think one of the things you always said is 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:21.360 that you love the reset of coming back to the 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.679 River Cap something you and Beggsy always said, Yeah, as 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.240 you go out into the world, and then it's quite 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.280 nice to get back to your roots and taste a 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.759 bit of that, get that River Cap experience again. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.479 It's like being home, which is lovely. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.840 Jamie came to work with us when he was just 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.640 about twenty, I guess almost thirty years ago. Rose Gray 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.520 interviewed him for the job and as it always said, 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:45.440 it was love at first sight. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.960 Thank you, Euthie. Well, I love that. I remember the 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.000 first time Rose interviewed me. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:53.040 Tell me about it. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.960 Well, I had been working at the Nil Street restaurant 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.720 for a year and a half and I knew it 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.760 was time for me to move on. And I just 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.880 read this book, the first River Cafe book Blue, and 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.320 it just like changed everything. It was like it's like 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.680 a moment because just from a design point of view 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:13.400 and a feeling point of view and the black and 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.720 white reportage photos and it was. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:17.320 Like fresh air. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.560 And I knew I had to get there, so I 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.360 phoned up and I came in. I was quite skin 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.600 and I had my first suit that was a really 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.000 cheap suit. Honestly, it was if it had gone near 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.840 a candle. We had gone up in flames so quickly, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.040 and I turned up in a suit with a terrible 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.880 tie because my dad always said, like make an effort. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.200 And I remember the headshef at the time and all 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.200 the chef's looking around just thinking like he's in a suitcase. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:52.000 You don't really wear suits the customers. But we definitely 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:52.560 bonded on. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.919 I think Ravioli was the place that we kind of 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:57.880 connected and then the rest was history. 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.000 Then did you come straight up? 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.880 Yeah? Yeah, I couldn't wait. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.960 And it was like it was an amazing time because 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.720 you know, obviously you always look back with romance, but 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.480 it was an amazing time in Britain. And the River 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.400 Cafe was on fire and had come from, you know, 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:20.359 such humble beginnings. But was this extraordinary, unconventional restaurant doing 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.000 incredible things run of course by and Ruth in the 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:27.200 amazing team, but you know, cool Britannia, the music scene, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.960 the fashion scene, the photography scene, the art scene. I 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.040 remember cooking with you for a new labor before they 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.560 got in, and during that they got in, and and 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.760 I remember the Millennium Dome as a sketch on a tablecloth, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.040 and I remember it as a as a model that 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.600 was just a few meters away from the pastry section 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.760 while making chocolate Nemesis. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:51.680 And then I remember the real one, and. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.880 Did you do you remember I was I was nineteen. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:57.720 Yeah, I was nineteen years old and I came here 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.000 and I was. 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:04.600 Ninety ninety eight, ninety eight, yeah, maybe ninety eight, but 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.680 nice memriag wondered Blair when the election wasn't ninety seven. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.760 And then, as you said, there were the kind of excitement, 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.280 a kind of melding also politics and food and as 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:19.839 you say, culture and excitement. I certainly remember Rose calling 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.159 me up. I think I was away clearly when you were. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.039 When you came through an interview in the suit, I 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.520 would have remembered it. And she said, you know, Ruthie, 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.840 this one you're going to love. This is you know, 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:30.080 this is somebody. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:30.640 I was so keen. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.640 I was so keen, and it felt like a family 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.760 straight away, and I'd grown up obviously in a family restaurant. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:36.240 I know. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.680 My last bit of advice from my dad to me 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.200 was like, just whoever you work for, just treat their 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.000 business like yours. And you haven't got one job, You've 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.800 got every job. If the phone rings picks it up. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.480 If your floor needs moping, mop it. And I remember 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.919 just sort of coming to the River Cafe and it 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.320 actually felt like a family, which is actually it is 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.760 more rare than it's not that common even now in restaurants. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.640 What you and Rose were doing was so untraditional from 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.120 what the kind of machine teaches. So I felt like 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:06.240 I was being liberated. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.800 Well, your friend Ed Baines once said that, you know, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.599 when he came to work for us, he said, you 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.200 know that song, I did it my way. Well you 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.560 should say we did it were away and we didn't 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.760 know what we were doing, but we just knew that 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:19.800 we were doing it our work. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:24.040 But you were right right, because I think what had 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.600 happened is I mean, I feel like I can look 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.800 at it objectively now, but like training is fine, but 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.320 it's it's for consistency, and you have structure, and it's 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.400 it was very male dominant, and which is very testosterone dominant. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.279 And to go from that typical training and typical kitchens 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:46.640 to you and Rose was the most visceral, emotional, maternal, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.440 common sense logical thing that ever happened to me. Ever, 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.000 and and because you were you, I mean, I know 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.240 you know what has happened here a special but when 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.640 you're an outsider coming in, it was it was like 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.440 someone had invented a new type of music. And I 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.400 remember the sheer worry of writing a menu at say 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.360 three point thirty for customers coming at six, because normally 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.039 your trains do like monthly menus, and here we are 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.400 doing two a day every day. And I remember just 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.600 doing the jobs list, and I remember seeing like you'd 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:29.040 have random people bringing in like overly Caesar mushrooms and you, well, Rob, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.120 I start, we'll put them on now, and it's like, 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.720 but we just put no now, and like nothing everything 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.200 was now, and it was all about freshness, and that 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.680 energy was I remember. I remember thinking about crying for 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.799 about three weeks, not because of you or the team, 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.120 but just because of the stress of a new menu 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.240 twice a day was completely outside of what I knew. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.400 But then you get used to it, and I learned 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.320 what you created was thinkers, Yeah, people that could adjust 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.880 and react to seasons and everything that was happening in 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.760 the industry was about protocol and structures and safety, whereas 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.120 we I don't know. It was so exciting to have 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.600 two women as bosses and owners. I think very male 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.840 driven kitchens, and I'm not saying this for any effect, 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:17.200 like quite aggressive, often flooded with drugs, and it was 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.840 quite scary. Yeah, And I knew those kitchens and I'd 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.560 worked in London and abroad and things like that, so 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.720 it was you know, even when I come in today, 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.320 you can see there's this lovely fifty to fifty balance 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:31.680 of them. And that's the holy grail I think. I mean, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.040 I think if you skew one way or the other, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.240 you can get issues, but. 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.480 You know, it's but the thinking was so different. Yeah. 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.679 I think it also helped us so much having chefs 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.280 who worked in other kitchens, because neither of us. Rose 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.160 did a bit with McNally's in New York and a 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.800 bit with Carlucci. But somehow I remember the joy of having, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.400 you know, young people who had actually experienced other kitchens 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.560 or contributed to us, who taught us, you know. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.120 The yin and yang of you and was really a 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.960 precious one as well, because you're you crossed over in 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.160 the middle, but you had strengths on other sides, and 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:07.040 that was quite. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.720 Interesting to see a great partner. 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.640 Yeah, and I think, you know, like also having the 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.720 open kitchen where there was that connection with the customer. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.320 Remember we used to answer the telephone and take reservations 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.280 when maybe it was before the time, but I literally remember, no, 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.840 I remember writing it down. You know, it's a table 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.000 for four, table for six, you know. And then going 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:32.920 back to kind of stirring the the televant in my head. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.640 But if we go back, because you talk, you spoke 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.400 about your father, and you speak about, you know, the 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.360 way you grow up. And just even in the first 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.000 five minutes of conversation, he's present and he's telling you, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.800 you know, whether it's to wear a tie, or to 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.560 be curious, or to treat a restaurant in a certain way. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.079 So why don't we maybe begin also a little bit 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.200 at the beginning with the ol of our household. So 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:58.920 how many siblings do you have? 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.400 I have one sister ancestor. She's a year younger than me. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.920 Yeah. And so when you were growing up, who did 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.680 the cooking? Was it your mother? Father she did? 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:08.080 Yeah? 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.720 I mean dad was a chain chef and he'd started 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.200 really young and also grew up in a pub that 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.000 did very good food. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:16.200 Yeah, his father. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.960 Yeah, and they still have Yeah, they had have a 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.160 pub called the Plow and Sow in Paglesham, which is 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.760 in a dead end near the River Blackwater, which is 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.560 where we used to get sea bass from Ben's Fish and. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.560 Then fish yeah, oh my gosh. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.560 Yeah and West Mersey Oysters. Yes. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.079 So that's where Dad grew up. And I was born 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:41.480 actually in South Fuckington, in South Fuckington in Grays, Essex, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.240 so right in the estuary of Essex and got devastated 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.720 in the war. And Dad was the youngest license holder 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.960 in the country at the time. I believe he was seventeen. No, no, 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:55.520 I think in those days you could have it a 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.600 bit younger. He was at least eighteen, but I think 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.560 he was even younger. And then he had me at twenty. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.920 So as soon as I was born, we got a 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.520 tatty old pub that was beautiful in a little village 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.200 called Clavering and it was a sixteenth century pub and 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.720 I obviously grew up there, but Dad, I mean I 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:15.720 remember a few things. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:16.200 That stuck out. 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.959 So the chalkboards were daily, so that gave me some 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.440 sort of connection with the river cafe changing daily. The 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.520 game was local, the fish was only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.160 Lots of live crabs and lobsters and whole fish, whole 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.520 animals coming in to be butchered. He had a brigade 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.680 I only ever remember a brigade of at least six 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.920 on a shift. And the pastry was a proper pastry 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.000 of sort of Anglo French Swiss style. Am yeah, well 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.000 I thought it was normal, but of course even now 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.600 it's not normal. And you know, typical would have been 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:53.360 freezers full of stuff you could reheat. And he was trained, yeah, yeah, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.000 and he really I mean he didn't go to school 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.800 much as a child, but he got a Student of 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.000 the Year at South End College and went and worked 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.000 in France as well, so he was kind of he 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.760 had a really good start. But he ran the pub, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.120 and I remember little things like the head chef was 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.679 paid more than he paid himself, and I remember as 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.720 a child going with that carb be right, and he's like, no, no, 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.840 we've got to invest in the quality and get the 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.160 brigades steady. And of course these are all real things. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.920 But it had a bar side and then it had 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.000 a restaurant side, which meant there was slightly two tones 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:29.160 of cooking with food, yeah, and quite Anglo French cooking, 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.600 so kind of things that you would get I guess 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.760 at the Wolseley or kind of like rules, you know, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:41.640 classics like simply cooked game and beautiful over souls, you know, 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:42.640 cooked how you. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.240 Liked it, but everything homemade. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.600 So that was I just wanted to go to London 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.240 for five years so I could learn some things then 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.160 come back and run apart. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.720 I remember, actually I remember you kind of very really 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.040 quite late. You were always really interested in the pub. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:57.600 Did your mother work there as well? 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:57.920 Yeah? 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.680 Yeah, she was a classic land lady in the sense 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.120 of that's not like an east Enders land lady, like 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.040 it's quite a glamorous role. And mum was very glamorous. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.199 All I remember with my mum honestly was she'd get 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.040 ready for two hours, the smell of that hair spray 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.439 from the gold canister, and rollers, always enrollers, and then 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.920 this and always in sort of like nineties, and then 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.839 all of a sudden this outfit came on and the 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.959 hair was out, and then she'd go down about eight fifteen. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.880 Two hours oh. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.360 And and just work in the locals and it was 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.920 a busy pub. And I think, I guess, in a 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.840 sort of cheesy sense, we went from a working class 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.760 family to a classic middle class family in about thirteen years. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.320 The cooking for you and your sister, how would she 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.120 do that? Between rolling her hair? 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.360 She would do all the books, all the high Well, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.240 Mum would do the hiring and Dad would do the firing, 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.319 and often Mum had to run after people that Dad 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.559 had fired to rehire them because he hadn't dealt with 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.439 the problem quite right. But Mum mainly did like classic 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.600 things really, like, you know, did you live in the pub? Yeah? So, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.839 like my bedroom was not much bigger than this room, 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.640 which is like two and a half by four. Of course, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.120 it was sixteenth century, so there's gaps all around the edges. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.559 So everyone smoked such a lot. So you know, God 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.680 forbid I ever do get anything unhealthy with my lungs. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.960 But if it was, it was because I had passive 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:19.000 smoking as a child. 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.000 But yeah, I mean, so. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.920 You lived over so would you you had a diving 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.280 room and a kitchen or not? 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:24.880 Really there was. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.080 There was two bedrooms in a front room, but in 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:28.679 the front room we had a little table, so we 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.600 Mum would cook down in the commercial kitchen in between shifts. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.640 She would cook dinner for you and your Yeah, but. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.760 They cooked well and Mum still cooks well today and 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.520 Dad still cooks well, but dad they're both retired now, 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.320 and which they did in lockdown. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.600 So you can you can imagine living upstairs from this pub, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:46.360 having your parents. 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.960 You know, always customers a lot. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.920 Yeah, but of course I worked at the weekends for 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:54.840 pocket money. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:56.080 What did you do? 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.120 I started up bottling up, which is replace certain. Well, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.960 you go and look at the bar after a busy night, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.640 and you look at all the empty shelves and if 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.160 you're lucky, you can see a little round marks where 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.480 all the bottles had sat, and you'd count them and 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.720 then you'd replace them, and then you'd recycle the bottles. 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.520 How old were you when this was going on? Nine? 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:18.880 Yeah? 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.040 Yeah, And I was in the wash up by ten. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.160 And the wash up involved a lot of vegge preps, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:25.960 so not dissimilar to at the River Cafe when you're 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.520 picking the herbs and all the stuff. And then I 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.200 really wanted to get into the kitchen, so I was 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.200 probably fully in the kitchen by about eleven. And they 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.600 had sections, so they had veg starters, mate, and they split. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.120 You'd have someone putting food in the oven, someone taking 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.680 it out and serving it and then a pastry section. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.440 But yeah, I mean i'd probably by the time I 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.880 was sixteen, I'd done the rotation of the kitchen maybe 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.240 three times. So I remember having to develop a skill 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.480 to teaching cooking. When I say teaching, like if you 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.040 had a twenty one year old come in from college 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.800 to get a job, as it's a commie chef, I'd 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.280 be fourteen and I'd have to train him. And obviously, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.280 when you're fourteen, you haven't got a hair on your chin, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.880 and these twenty one year olds looked like men. So 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:11.720 I had to sort of develop a way of teaching 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.880 without getting a slap that make them feel like they 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.480 were teaching themselves, and like teaching like well you left 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.280 or right handed? Okay, work from left to right. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:21.560 Okay. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.000 So this is this dish, and we prep this and 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.960 prep that, and we put that, put that on ice, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.280 and you know, just try and set it up for 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.400 service so the service can flow. And I, obviously, being young, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.640 I was cocky as well, so I often ended up 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.760 in the freezer. I often ended up with like why 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.280 because I've been maybe back, like somebody puts you in 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.120 the free freezer. 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:41.200 Yeah, I close the door. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.400 And sit on it shin. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.680 It was a bit like the shining. If I'm honest, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.800 I'm sure it was illegal. I'm sure it was with love. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.960 But I'd finish shifts and take my jacket off and 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.200 there'd be clothes pegs with like there'd be like one 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.440 hundred clothes pegs and a few signs saying very unkind things. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:01.440 Does your father know they would? 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:01.680 Oh? 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.480 Yeah, I think he felt it was a kind of 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.240 initiation of some description. So of course, by the time 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.000 I was eighteen, I was well versed to stuff. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.840 Wow, I think that I do you think that might 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:14.640 go on now? 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.480 Yeah? I think. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:21.000 I think wherever you have teams and institutionalized sort of training, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.360 which I think kitchens have been, that there's that going on, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.320 and it can be for best or for worst. I 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.920 think it's you posted something with your your team and 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:32.800 it was very clearly a fifty to fifty split of 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.040 men and women. I reposted it because. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.400 It's me Well, it was so powerful. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.480 The balance is so important in a really happy kitchen, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.840 and if it's one hundred percent men or hell breaks loose, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.800 and you know, if you can get to twenty percent, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:48.600 that's amazing. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.720 But fifty to fifty is definitely the h that's the think. 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.080 There is a feeling that I mean, it's something that 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.360 I've always said that when people call up and say 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.960 a journalist might say, Wow, it's it's so hard being 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.400 a chef. It's so stressful, and I go, it must 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.480 be really hard being a journalist. You know, God, it 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.080 must be so stressful, because in a way you want 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:16.320 to take our profession and have it not be different 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.679 from other professions. You know, the kind of myth that 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.919 because we have to do you know, service so quickly, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.120 or we have difficult customers, or chefs are yelling, that's 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.920 so old fashioned in a way. And now, certainly the 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.800 young people who work in the River Cafe're just not 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:31.320 going to put up with that anymore. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.280 I think just we're over that. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.840 I think as a kid that struggled in school, and 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.280 as an adult now with kids sort of looking at 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.800 where AI and technology and all the things that are 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.480 going to happen around learning and how that's going to 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:49.119 check affects learning in schools in the future. I think, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.920 what I can I can thank you for a thousand things, 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.479 but one of the things that is most precious that 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.520 you and Rose taught me and the institution the family 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.959 that you create was how to think for yourself. So 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.080 that's really interesting because learning stuff is learning stuff, and 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.720 that's kind of what happens in school, but problem solving 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.520 and resilience and reacting to weather, which is therefore seasons, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 which is therefore ingredients, which is therefore the two shifts 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.000 today that you know, Like it was really interesting as 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.520 a young chef, I would watch brilliant chefs come out 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.879 of Michilin Star kitchens and they go and do their 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.120 own thing, and they'd be doing versions of the same 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.200 thing that they left. And if you look at the 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.560 family tree that's come from the River Cafe, I mean, 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.320 I guess Sam and Sam from Morrow is a really 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.760 good first example, Like you can see River Cafe through 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.679 their heart and their soul. But it's they did this 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:48.440 incredible North African you know, and they not only went 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.439 into restaurants, they opened pizzerias and sandwich but they just 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.679 did brilliant things and you created thinkers, and I think 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:00.560 that's different. I always tell people there's ways to run 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.000 a kitchen. One is sort of through fear, and one 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:03.800 is through family. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:04.240 Yeah. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.800 Yeah, and family is a bit slower, but you get 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.240 much more back in return, and fear is very efficient, 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:10.880 but you get so little back. 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.760