1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, hope you well. Sorry to be familiar. I 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: just am because I'm ill. They always look like. 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: He's quite familiar, is that guy? 6 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: Hell? 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 4: I can't say how many times when arriving in the 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 4: River Cafe in a taxi the driver will turned around 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 4: to me and say, is this the restaurant where Jamie 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 4: Oliver cooked the other day? One even informed me that 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 4: the River Cafe was owned by Jamie, and I thought, 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 4: why correct him? He is a prodigal son or the 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 4: brother who knows that when he walks in the door 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 4: of the restaurant, he is. 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: Home, not the old day. When was the last time 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: you're here? 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: I try and get here at least two or three 18 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 3: times a year if I'm lucky, and I have to say, 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 3: it's a bit like therapy really see Charles. 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: Which always makes me very happy. 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 3: We normally go through the same old jokes and then 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: crack onto a bit of new news, friends and family. 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: But there's lots of nostalgia, isn't there. 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 5: I think one of the things you always said is 25 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 5: that you love the reset of coming back to the 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 5: River Cap something you and Beggsy always said, Yeah, as 27 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 5: you go out into the world, and then it's quite 28 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 5: nice to get back to your roots and taste a 29 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 5: bit of that, get that River Cap experience again. 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 2: It's like being home, which is lovely. 31 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 4: Jamie came to work with us when he was just 32 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 4: about twenty, I guess almost thirty years ago. Rose Gray 33 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 4: interviewed him for the job and as it always said, 34 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 4: it was love at first sight. 35 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: Thank you, Euthie. Well, I love that. I remember the 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 3: first time Rose interviewed me. 37 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: Tell me about it. 38 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: Well, I had been working at the Nil Street restaurant 39 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: for a year and a half and I knew it 40 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: was time for me to move on. And I just 41 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: read this book, the first River Cafe book Blue, and 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: it just like changed everything. It was like it's like 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 3: a moment because just from a design point of view 44 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: and a feeling point of view and the black and 45 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: white reportage photos and it was. 46 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: Like fresh air. 47 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 3: And I knew I had to get there, so I 48 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 3: phoned up and I came in. I was quite skin 49 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: and I had my first suit that was a really 50 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: cheap suit. Honestly, it was if it had gone near 51 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 3: a candle. We had gone up in flames so quickly, 52 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: and I turned up in a suit with a terrible 53 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: tie because my dad always said, like make an effort. 54 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 3: And I remember the headshef at the time and all 55 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: the chef's looking around just thinking like he's in a suitcase. 56 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: You don't really wear suits the customers. But we definitely 57 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: bonded on. 58 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 3: I think Ravioli was the place that we kind of 59 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: connected and then the rest was history. 60 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 4: Then did you come straight up? 61 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I couldn't wait. 62 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: And it was like it was an amazing time because 63 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: you know, obviously you always look back with romance, but 64 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: it was an amazing time in Britain. And the River 65 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: Cafe was on fire and had come from, you know, 66 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: such humble beginnings. But was this extraordinary, unconventional restaurant doing 67 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 3: incredible things run of course by and Ruth in the 68 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: amazing team, but you know, cool Britannia, the music scene, 69 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: the fashion scene, the photography scene, the art scene. I 70 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: remember cooking with you for a new labor before they 71 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: got in, and during that they got in, and and 72 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: I remember the Millennium Dome as a sketch on a tablecloth, 73 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: and I remember it as a as a model that 74 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: was just a few meters away from the pastry section 75 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: while making chocolate Nemesis. 76 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: And then I remember the real one, and. 77 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 4: Did you do you remember I was I was nineteen. 78 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was nineteen years old and I came here 79 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: and I was. 80 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 4: Ninety ninety eight, ninety eight, yeah, maybe ninety eight, but 81 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 4: nice memriag wondered Blair when the election wasn't ninety seven. 82 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 4: And then, as you said, there were the kind of excitement, 83 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 4: a kind of melding also politics and food and as 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 4: you say, culture and excitement. I certainly remember Rose calling 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 4: me up. I think I was away clearly when you were. 86 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 4: When you came through an interview in the suit, I 87 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: would have remembered it. And she said, you know, Ruthie, 88 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 4: this one you're going to love. This is you know, 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 4: this is somebody. 90 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: I was so keen. 91 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: I was so keen, and it felt like a family 92 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: straight away, and I'd grown up obviously in a family restaurant. 93 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 4: I know. 94 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: My last bit of advice from my dad to me 95 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: was like, just whoever you work for, just treat their 96 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 3: business like yours. And you haven't got one job, You've 97 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: got every job. If the phone rings picks it up. 98 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 3: If your floor needs moping, mop it. And I remember 99 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 3: just sort of coming to the River Cafe and it 100 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: actually felt like a family, which is actually it is 101 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: more rare than it's not that common even now in restaurants. 102 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: What you and Rose were doing was so untraditional from 103 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: what the kind of machine teaches. So I felt like 104 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: I was being liberated. 105 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: Well, your friend Ed Baines once said that, you know, 106 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 4: when he came to work for us, he said, you 107 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 4: know that song, I did it my way. Well you 108 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 4: should say we did it were away and we didn't 109 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: know what we were doing, but we just knew that 110 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 4: we were doing it our work. 111 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 3: But you were right right, because I think what had 112 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 3: happened is I mean, I feel like I can look 113 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: at it objectively now, but like training is fine, but 114 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: it's it's for consistency, and you have structure, and it's 115 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: it was very male dominant, and which is very testosterone dominant. 116 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: And to go from that typical training and typical kitchens 117 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: to you and Rose was the most visceral, emotional, maternal, 118 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: common sense logical thing that ever happened to me. Ever, 119 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: and and because you were you, I mean, I know 120 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 3: you know what has happened here a special but when 121 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: you're an outsider coming in, it was it was like 122 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 3: someone had invented a new type of music. And I 123 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: remember the sheer worry of writing a menu at say 124 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 3: three point thirty for customers coming at six, because normally 125 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 3: your trains do like monthly menus, and here we are 126 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: doing two a day every day. And I remember just 127 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 3: doing the jobs list, and I remember seeing like you'd 128 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 3: have random people bringing in like overly Caesar mushrooms and you, well, Rob, 129 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 3: I start, we'll put them on now, and it's like, 130 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: but we just put no now, and like nothing everything 131 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: was now, and it was all about freshness, and that 132 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: energy was I remember. I remember thinking about crying for 133 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 3: about three weeks, not because of you or the team, 134 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: but just because of the stress of a new menu 135 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: twice a day was completely outside of what I knew. 136 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: But then you get used to it, and I learned 137 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: what you created was thinkers, Yeah, people that could adjust 138 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: and react to seasons and everything that was happening in 139 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: the industry was about protocol and structures and safety, whereas 140 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: we I don't know. It was so exciting to have 141 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 3: two women as bosses and owners. I think very male 142 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: driven kitchens, and I'm not saying this for any effect, 143 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: like quite aggressive, often flooded with drugs, and it was 144 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: quite scary. Yeah, And I knew those kitchens and I'd 145 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 3: worked in London and abroad and things like that, so 146 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: it was you know, even when I come in today, 147 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: you can see there's this lovely fifty to fifty balance 148 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: of them. And that's the holy grail I think. I mean, 149 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: I think if you skew one way or the other, 150 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: you can get issues, but. 151 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's but the thinking was so different. Yeah. 152 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 4: I think it also helped us so much having chefs 153 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 4: who worked in other kitchens, because neither of us. Rose 154 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 4: did a bit with McNally's in New York and a 155 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: bit with Carlucci. But somehow I remember the joy of having, 156 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 4: you know, young people who had actually experienced other kitchens 157 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 4: or contributed to us, who taught us, you know. 158 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: The yin and yang of you and was really a 159 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: precious one as well, because you're you crossed over in 160 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: the middle, but you had strengths on other sides, and 161 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: that was quite. 162 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: Interesting to see a great partner. 163 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, you know, like also having the 164 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: open kitchen where there was that connection with the customer. 165 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: Remember we used to answer the telephone and take reservations 166 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 4: when maybe it was before the time, but I literally remember, no, 167 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: I remember writing it down. You know, it's a table 168 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 4: for four, table for six, you know. And then going 169 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 4: back to kind of stirring the the televant in my head. 170 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 4: But if we go back, because you talk, you spoke 171 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 4: about your father, and you speak about, you know, the 172 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 4: way you grow up. And just even in the first 173 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 4: five minutes of conversation, he's present and he's telling you, 174 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 4: you know, whether it's to wear a tie, or to 175 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 4: be curious, or to treat a restaurant in a certain way. 176 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 4: So why don't we maybe begin also a little bit 177 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 4: at the beginning with the ol of our household. So 178 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: how many siblings do you have? 179 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: I have one sister ancestor. She's a year younger than me. 180 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. And so when you were growing up, who did 181 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 4: the cooking? Was it your mother? Father she did? 182 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? 183 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 3: I mean dad was a chain chef and he'd started 184 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: really young and also grew up in a pub that 185 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: did very good food. 186 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, his father. 187 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they still have Yeah, they had have a 188 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: pub called the Plow and Sow in Paglesham, which is 189 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: in a dead end near the River Blackwater, which is 190 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 3: where we used to get sea bass from Ben's Fish and. 191 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 4: Then fish yeah, oh my gosh. 192 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: Yeah and West Mersey Oysters. Yes. 193 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 3: So that's where Dad grew up. And I was born 194 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: actually in South Fuckington, in South Fuckington in Grays, Essex, 195 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: so right in the estuary of Essex and got devastated 196 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: in the war. And Dad was the youngest license holder 197 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: in the country at the time. I believe he was seventeen. No, no, 198 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: I think in those days you could have it a 199 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: bit younger. He was at least eighteen, but I think 200 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: he was even younger. And then he had me at twenty. 201 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: So as soon as I was born, we got a 202 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 3: tatty old pub that was beautiful in a little village 203 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: called Clavering and it was a sixteenth century pub and 204 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 3: I obviously grew up there, but Dad, I mean I 205 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: remember a few things. 206 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: That stuck out. 207 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 3: So the chalkboards were daily, so that gave me some 208 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 3: sort of connection with the river cafe changing daily. The 209 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: game was local, the fish was only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 210 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 3: Lots of live crabs and lobsters and whole fish, whole 211 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: animals coming in to be butchered. He had a brigade 212 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: I only ever remember a brigade of at least six 213 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: on a shift. And the pastry was a proper pastry 214 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: of sort of Anglo French Swiss style. Am yeah, well 215 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: I thought it was normal, but of course even now 216 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: it's not normal. And you know, typical would have been 217 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: freezers full of stuff you could reheat. And he was trained, yeah, yeah, 218 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: and he really I mean he didn't go to school 219 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 3: much as a child, but he got a Student of 220 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: the Year at South End College and went and worked 221 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: in France as well, so he was kind of he 222 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: had a really good start. But he ran the pub, 223 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 3: and I remember little things like the head chef was 224 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 3: paid more than he paid himself, and I remember as 225 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: a child going with that carb be right, and he's like, no, no, 226 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: we've got to invest in the quality and get the 227 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: brigades steady. And of course these are all real things. 228 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: But it had a bar side and then it had 229 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: a restaurant side, which meant there was slightly two tones 230 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: of cooking with food, yeah, and quite Anglo French cooking, 231 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 3: so kind of things that you would get I guess 232 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: at the Wolseley or kind of like rules, you know, 233 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: classics like simply cooked game and beautiful over souls, you know, 234 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 3: cooked how you. 235 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: Liked it, but everything homemade. 236 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: So that was I just wanted to go to London 237 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: for five years so I could learn some things then 238 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: come back and run apart. 239 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 4: I remember, actually I remember you kind of very really 240 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 4: quite late. You were always really interested in the pub. 241 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 4: Did your mother work there as well? 242 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? 243 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was a classic land lady in the sense 244 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 3: of that's not like an east Enders land lady, like 245 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: it's quite a glamorous role. And mum was very glamorous. 246 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: All I remember with my mum honestly was she'd get 247 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: ready for two hours, the smell of that hair spray 248 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 3: from the gold canister, and rollers, always enrollers, and then 249 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: this and always in sort of like nineties, and then 250 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 3: all of a sudden this outfit came on and the 251 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 3: hair was out, and then she'd go down about eight fifteen. 252 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: Two hours oh. 253 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: And and just work in the locals and it was 254 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 3: a busy pub. And I think, I guess, in a 255 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: sort of cheesy sense, we went from a working class 256 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: family to a classic middle class family in about thirteen years. 257 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 4: The cooking for you and your sister, how would she 258 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 4: do that? Between rolling her hair? 259 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: She would do all the books, all the high Well, 260 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 3: Mum would do the hiring and Dad would do the firing, 261 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 3: and often Mum had to run after people that Dad 262 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 3: had fired to rehire them because he hadn't dealt with 263 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 3: the problem quite right. But Mum mainly did like classic 264 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 3: things really, like, you know, did you live in the pub? Yeah? So, 265 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 3: like my bedroom was not much bigger than this room, 266 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: which is like two and a half by four. Of course, 267 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 3: it was sixteenth century, so there's gaps all around the edges. 268 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 3: So everyone smoked such a lot. So you know, God 269 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: forbid I ever do get anything unhealthy with my lungs. 270 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: But if it was, it was because I had passive 271 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: smoking as a child. 272 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, so. 273 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: You lived over so would you you had a diving 274 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 4: room and a kitchen or not? 275 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: Really there was. 276 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 3: There was two bedrooms in a front room, but in 277 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 3: the front room we had a little table, so we 278 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 3: Mum would cook down in the commercial kitchen in between shifts. 279 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: She would cook dinner for you and your Yeah, but. 280 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: They cooked well and Mum still cooks well today and 281 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: Dad still cooks well, but dad they're both retired now, 282 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 3: and which they did in lockdown. 283 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 4: So you can you can imagine living upstairs from this pub, 284 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 4: having your parents. 285 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: You know, always customers a lot. 286 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but of course I worked at the weekends for 287 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 3: pocket money. 288 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: What did you do? 289 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 3: I started up bottling up, which is replace certain. Well, 290 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: you go and look at the bar after a busy night, 291 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 3: and you look at all the empty shelves and if 292 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: you're lucky, you can see a little round marks where 293 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: all the bottles had sat, and you'd count them and 294 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: then you'd replace them, and then you'd recycle the bottles. 295 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 4: How old were you when this was going on? Nine? 296 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? 297 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was in the wash up by ten. 298 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 3: And the wash up involved a lot of vegge preps, 299 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: so not dissimilar to at the River Cafe when you're 300 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 3: picking the herbs and all the stuff. And then I 301 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: really wanted to get into the kitchen, so I was 302 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 3: probably fully in the kitchen by about eleven. And they 303 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: had sections, so they had veg starters, mate, and they split. 304 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: You'd have someone putting food in the oven, someone taking 305 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: it out and serving it and then a pastry section. 306 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean i'd probably by the time I 307 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 3: was sixteen, I'd done the rotation of the kitchen maybe 308 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: three times. So I remember having to develop a skill 309 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 3: to teaching cooking. When I say teaching, like if you 310 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: had a twenty one year old come in from college 311 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: to get a job, as it's a commie chef, I'd 312 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 3: be fourteen and I'd have to train him. And obviously, 313 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: when you're fourteen, you haven't got a hair on your chin, 314 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: and these twenty one year olds looked like men. So 315 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: I had to sort of develop a way of teaching 316 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 3: without getting a slap that make them feel like they 317 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: were teaching themselves, and like teaching like well you left 318 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: or right handed? Okay, work from left to right. 319 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: Okay. 320 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: So this is this dish, and we prep this and 321 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: prep that, and we put that, put that on ice, 322 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: and you know, just try and set it up for 323 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: service so the service can flow. And I, obviously, being young, 324 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: I was cocky as well, so I often ended up 325 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 3: in the freezer. I often ended up with like why 326 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 3: because I've been maybe back, like somebody puts you in 327 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: the free freezer. 328 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I close the door. 329 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: And sit on it shin. 330 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: It was a bit like the shining. If I'm honest, 331 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 3: I'm sure it was illegal. I'm sure it was with love. 332 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: But I'd finish shifts and take my jacket off and 333 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: there'd be clothes pegs with like there'd be like one 334 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: hundred clothes pegs and a few signs saying very unkind things. 335 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 4: Does your father know they would? 336 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: Oh? 337 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he felt it was a kind of 338 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 3: initiation of some description. So of course, by the time 339 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 3: I was eighteen, I was well versed to stuff. 340 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 4: Wow, I think that I do you think that might 341 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 4: go on now? 342 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think. 343 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: I think wherever you have teams and institutionalized sort of training, 344 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: which I think kitchens have been, that there's that going on, 345 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: and it can be for best or for worst. I 346 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 3: think it's you posted something with your your team and 347 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: it was very clearly a fifty to fifty split of 348 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: men and women. I reposted it because. 349 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: It's me Well, it was so powerful. 350 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 3: The balance is so important in a really happy kitchen, 351 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: and if it's one hundred percent men or hell breaks loose, 352 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: and you know, if you can get to twenty percent, 353 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: that's amazing. 354 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: But fifty to fifty is definitely the h that's the think. 355 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 4: There is a feeling that I mean, it's something that 356 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 4: I've always said that when people call up and say 357 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 4: a journalist might say, Wow, it's it's so hard being 358 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 4: a chef. It's so stressful, and I go, it must 359 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 4: be really hard being a journalist. You know, God, it 360 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 4: must be so stressful, because in a way you want 361 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: to take our profession and have it not be different 362 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 4: from other professions. You know, the kind of myth that 363 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 4: because we have to do you know, service so quickly, 364 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 4: or we have difficult customers, or chefs are yelling, that's 365 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 4: so old fashioned in a way. And now, certainly the 366 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 4: young people who work in the River Cafe're just not 367 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 4: going to put up with that anymore. 368 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: I think just we're over that. 369 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: I think as a kid that struggled in school, and 370 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: as an adult now with kids sort of looking at 371 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: where AI and technology and all the things that are 372 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 3: going to happen around learning and how that's going to 373 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 3: check affects learning in schools in the future. I think, 374 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: what I can I can thank you for a thousand things, 375 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 3: but one of the things that is most precious that 376 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 3: you and Rose taught me and the institution the family 377 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 3: that you create was how to think for yourself. So 378 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 3: that's really interesting because learning stuff is learning stuff, and 379 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 3: that's kind of what happens in school, but problem solving 380 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: and resilience and reacting to weather, which is therefore seasons, 381 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: which is therefore ingredients, which is therefore the two shifts 382 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 3: today that you know, Like it was really interesting as 383 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: a young chef, I would watch brilliant chefs come out 384 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: of Michilin Star kitchens and they go and do their 385 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 3: own thing, and they'd be doing versions of the same 386 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: thing that they left. And if you look at the 387 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: family tree that's come from the River Cafe, I mean, 388 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 3: I guess Sam and Sam from Morrow is a really 389 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: good first example, Like you can see River Cafe through 390 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 3: their heart and their soul. But it's they did this 391 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 3: incredible North African you know, and they not only went 392 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 3: into restaurants, they opened pizzerias and sandwich but they just 393 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 3: did brilliant things and you created thinkers, and I think 394 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: that's different. I always tell people there's ways to run 395 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 3: a kitchen. One is sort of through fear, and one 396 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 3: is through family. 397 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 398 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and family is a bit slower, but you get 399 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: much more back in return, and fear is very efficient, 400 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 3: but you get so little back. 401 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: In the long run. I feel quite passionately about. 402 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 3: That carl you chose. Was really interesting time for me 403 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: because it was in the Nil Street. 404 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 4: Restaurant signed by Terrence Conrad. 405 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and next door to the Neil Street I mean 406 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: the Neil Street was famous for mushrooms and late night 407 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: serving because of the opera house. The kitchen was hidden 408 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 3: in the basement, so you didn't see much light all day, 409 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 3: so I was pretty vitamin D deficient. And you know, 410 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 3: Antonio was the wonderful character at the front door, smoking 411 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: a cigar, having a little a little whisky or something, 412 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 3: but not really in the kitchen. But Gennara was in 413 00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 3: the kitchen and he was an incredible drawer. But he 414 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 3: didn't work in the restaurant. He worked in the very 415 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 3: first Carluccio's Deli, driven by Priscillaccio, who was Antonio's wife, 416 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: And that was really interesting because the kitchens were shared. 417 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 3: And I did nine until three, and then I did 418 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 3: six until one in. 419 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 2: The morning every day every day. 420 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: But then I did a third shift, which was three 421 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 3: until seven with Gennaro. 422 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: So I did a third secret. 423 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 4: Shift and how many how that was like I was. 424 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: But I was so young I could do it. 425 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: I mean I couldn't do it now, but I was 426 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 3: only really there to learn from Gennaro. And you know, 427 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 3: I knew I just had to make bread with Gennaro. Really, 428 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 3: so I'd asked Antonia. He said no. So I thought, well, look, 429 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 3: if I'm here till one, I can get the ovens on, 430 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 3: I can get the temperatures on, I can weigh out 431 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: all the flowers, I can get all the kind of 432 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: I kind of configured everything so he could work quicker, 433 00:20:58,359 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: and because I thought, poor man is getting up at 434 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 3: crack door and every day. So and one of the 435 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 3: clever things I did with the bread was all the 436 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 3: stale bread from that day they would finally whack, making 437 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 3: too very fine bread crumbs to dust the trays. 438 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: We have to get a lovely crunch. 439 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: And I'd sack about one hundred trays up to make 440 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 3: all these different breads, and I'd draw a little froud 441 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 3: messages in there and sort of like say good good 442 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 3: morning Gennaro, and just just to befriend him, because I 443 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: didn't know Hi at that stage, and as soon as 444 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: we became friends, he said, oh, don't worry about Antonio, 445 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 3: just come in. But it was an amazing I mean, 446 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 3: the restaurant was great. It was very traditional, slightly northern 447 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: Italian stuff. But what happened at night was amazing. Like 448 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: at four o'clock they had ding dong and there'd be 449 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 3: thirty policemen that would come. 450 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 4: In and four in the morning. 451 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 3: Four in the morning before in the morning and I 452 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 3: get up there, open them up. There's police out here, Gennaro, let. 453 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: The bastards in. 454 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh okay, and all these coppers were coming. 455 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 3: But the clearly it was their home. They sat down 456 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 3: as if it was their front room. They went behind 457 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: the bar. They started making espressos and we'd reheat the 458 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 3: stale bread from the day. 459 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: Before, give them the dale stuff. 460 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 3: We eat it, and then we give them some light 461 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 3: honey and some jam and they'd be very happy and 462 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: they would you think I'm making it up, But yeah, 463 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 3: it was kind of great. 464 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 4: British Bobby, Yeah. 465 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it happened anymore, but 466 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 3: that sound like the good old day. Yeah, But they, 467 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 3: I mean they were very romantic and I think you 468 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 3: did give me a good base to tiptoe into the 469 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: River Cafe, and but the River Cafe really was where 470 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 3: my heart was at. 471 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 4: You know. One of the amazing trajectories was when we 472 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 4: did a film called what was it called Christmas at 473 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 4: the Christmas at the River Gervet, and that was a 474 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 4: film that you know, really I remember you know you 475 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 4: fried mushrooms, didn't you. 476 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, well we did. 477 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 3: I think Porlketta and Ritolo. And then I think I 478 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 3: was on hots too one night. And obviously I can 479 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: look at it back now sort of seeing because you, 480 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 3: I think, correct me if I'm wrong. You were filming 481 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: for a couple of weeks, the show that you were making, 482 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: and I wasn't so sposed to be working that night. 483 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever told you this. I 484 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: don't know that. 485 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: So the night that I was in the background of 486 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 3: your program, I wasn't supposed to be working. I was 487 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 3: off and my wife, Jewels was off as well, and 488 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 3: she worked at the River Cafe on the front of house. 489 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 3: We hadn't had a night off together for ages and 490 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 3: the phone rang about four o'clock and one of the 491 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: team had gone sick. 492 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: Jewels, you know, with all the best in the world. 493 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: I had to come and put the shift in, but 494 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: that's when. 495 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 3: The crew was there, and actually they were kind of 496 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: in the way because I was catching my tail because 497 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 3: I was an hour and a half late for the 498 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: shift to cover someone and I was running Hot two, which, 499 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: as you know, is one of your busiest sections. I'm 500 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 3: sure it still is now. But it was free to 501 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 3: misso tagleateeley if I remember with Girols and Risotto, I do, 502 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 3: I do remember, and the slow pork of course. 503 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 504 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 3: I didn't think anything of it. And the night went 505 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 3: out on TV like many months later, maybe six months later. 506 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 3: Possibly I didn't know I was in it because I 507 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: was working. But then the phones started to ring the 508 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 3: next day, literally the next day. 509 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 4: I came in. I would say that I came in 510 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 4: that morning and said, wow, Jamie, you did a really great, 511 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: great thing with those mushrooms. You were amazing on television. 512 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 4: And then the phone rang, and I remember where it was. 513 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 4: The phone used to hang up on a hook in 514 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 4: the kitchen just when you came in. It was before 515 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 4: we had the really open kitchen, and it was a 516 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 4: call for you from Pat Lewellen came over to me 517 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 4: like Ruthie. Somebody just called me up and asked me 518 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 4: if I wanted to do a screen test? What's a 519 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 4: screen test? Should I go? And we didn't know anything, 520 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 4: and then they said, Ruthie. The newspapers called up and said, 521 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 4: do I want to do a column? 522 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: Can I go? We had, sure, Jamie. And then a. 523 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 4: Supermarket is called up, could I go? And I say 524 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 4: that within a very short time, you had a column 525 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 4: in a newspaper, a television show, an advertising campaign with 526 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 4: the supermarket and they knew, they knew that you could 527 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 4: do all this, and you showed them that you could and. 528 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: You did it. 529 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 3: I mean, when I think about it, I mean I 530 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: remember when I had my twenty years anniversary and there 531 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 3: was loads of people together, and to think that it 532 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 3: really genuinely does come back to that phone court four 533 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 3: o'clock saying can you cover? 534 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 4: What was it like from being a chef in the 535 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 4: river cap Who was around you, who was protecting you? 536 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: Who was going I. 537 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 3: Didn't, Yeah, I didn't really have any protection for a while. 538 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: Everyone was perfectly lovely. But I'd done the first book, 539 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 3: like I couldn't write or type, so I did it 540 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 3: in dictaphone the responsibility of delivering it is like a nightmare. 541 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: And then it was the naked chef for the first view. 542 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so that was with the television show. 543 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that was it was kind of 544 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: like a year later. At least it was because what 545 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 3: happened was they pitched, they pitched like a little show 546 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 3: reel to Channel four and it sat with them for 547 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: like six months and then they passed on it. It 548 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 3: then went to BBC two and Mark Thompson commissioned it 549 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: in seven days. So I think, like, you know, knowing 550 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 3: what I do about commissioning now, I think there might 551 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 3: have been a gap and like they probably had a 552 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 3: BBC sort of remit for representing a wide group of 553 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 3: people when I was a bit younger. 554 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: I guess I'm making this up. By the way, I 555 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: don't know. 556 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: I have asked him since because he runs The New 557 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 3: York Times. Was he left, and he just said, like, 558 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: you know, I think he just he just said, I 559 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: just had a feeling and I took a call on it. 560 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: But that doesn't happen that often. 561 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 3: I mean, and TV is not as they're not they're 562 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 3: very risk averse and normally if you're on Teley, I mean, 563 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 3: how do we not come up with the Naked Chef? 564 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: Which is I remember writing down what I. 565 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 3: Would and wouldn't do on TV and it said, you know, 566 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: stripping down restaurant food to its bear essentials. 567 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 2: And stripping and bear a turenned me to the Naked Chef, 568 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: which is was that your title? Yeah? 569 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 3: I didn't come up with it, but before that, the 570 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 3: working title was falking gorgeous, So thank god, I think, 571 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: I mean, both both were looking quite shady, but I 572 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 3: think Naked Chief just got away with it, and probably 573 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 3: more than anything, hit a moment and a sound and 574 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 3: a time and again, like I think timing, Timing is 575 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 3: an interesting master, isn't it? But it was, it was interesting. 576 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 3: It was a bit of a whirlwind, I think it was. 577 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 3: It felt like being in a pop band. And I 578 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,239 Speaker 3: think because I was younger and I wasn't married at 579 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 3: that point, it was very larry. And thankfully I had Jewels, 580 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: who's obviously been with since I was eighteen, and was 581 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 3: you know, my rock, and I had good friends in 582 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: the business, and I had you and Rose, and I 583 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 3: have Mum and Dad, so I felt like safe enough 584 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: right now, I did the Naked chef in my holiday time. Yeah, 585 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: I mean I think I worked here until half until 586 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 3: the end of season two. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 587 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: I've still got that vesper. 588 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 3: Do you know you got nigged and I ended up 589 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 3: buying my own vestper back off eBay, off of a 590 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 3: friend of a friend of a criminal. You've still got it, 591 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: still use it. It just makes a slightly different sound 592 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 3: going up the hill than it used to, slightly more strained. 593 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 4: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you 594 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 4: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on 595 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get 596 00:28:52,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 4: your podcasts. Thank you. I went saw an interview with 597 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 4: a great interview Michael Parkinson with George Best and Beckham 598 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 4: and George Best talked about the difference between his vulnerability 599 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 4: when he became you know, huge figure and he had 600 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 4: no one, There was no one. He went from being 601 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 4: a kid kicking a ball to being somebody that was 602 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 4: followed by paparazzi and given deals. And now when you 603 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: think you know the kind of surround that you have 604 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 4: of agents and pr and it's a very you know. 605 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 3: Quite well, but only through naivety and passion. I guess 606 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 3: is I looked after myself pretty early. I had an 607 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 3: agent for a bit and she was fantastic, but like 608 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 3: I knew she had many people, and I knew I 609 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: was one of many. So I sort of started the 610 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 3: production company. We didn't know what we're doing. Early employed 611 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: someone to look after me from like a legal point 612 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 3: of view. So I did that. I think that gave 613 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 3: me a lot of freedom in the early days. And 614 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 3: I think in those early days you can get eaten 615 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 3: out and spat out in about four years quite quickly, 616 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 3: and luckily I always sort of say it was like 617 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 3: like when I set up fifteen, it was such a 618 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 3: beautiful thing and a beautiful premise, and and well, why 619 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 3: did you do it? I said, Well, I wanted to, 620 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: I could, and I did. And it was as simple 621 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 3: as that I was young enough, stupid enough, and able 622 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 3: enough to do it. And obviously the scenario of having 623 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 3: a twenty four year old kid, I'd gone from having 624 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: no money to having like money in the bank, and 625 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 3: I spent all of it on fifteen, which was a charity. 626 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 3: So like, my dad was so worried about me. He 627 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 3: thought I'd lost the plot because he'd never made an 628 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: easy pound, so he was he thought, he was very concerned. 629 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: And there was about three weeks when I was theoretically bankrupt, 630 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: but luckily I got. 631 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 4: Let's talk about fifteen, because when you say it was 632 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 4: a beautiful concept, it was. It wasn't just opening a restaurant. 633 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 4: It was a a restaurant with values and a kind 634 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 4: of philosophy and an idea of fairness and tell us. 635 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 3: About well it was really it was kind of like 636 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 3: I think I felt from being that kid that struggled 637 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: at school, like is there anything that we could do 638 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: to kids that had gone off the rail or got 639 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 3: lost or had problems with the law, and even homeless kids. 640 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 3: And so we set up fifteen because the profits from 641 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: the restaurant would take fifteen kids every year and train 642 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: them for like sixteen months. And really it was a 643 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: very beautiful blend of the values that I'd learned at 644 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 3: the River Cafe with you and Rose, Mum and Dad 645 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 3: and Gennaro, and you could see it. I mean, it 646 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 3: was a very different restaurant, but also you could see 647 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 3: the China genetics in recipes of the River Cafe and 648 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 3: genera Mum and Dad and really mainly for you guys. 649 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: We took these kids on trips around sourcing from farmers 650 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: and you know it look some of these kids were 651 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 3: like drug dealers and frauds to and you know, and 652 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 3: we'd take them to catch wild salmon and then we'd 653 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 3: get a farm salmon and a wild salmon and we 654 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 3: do an autopsy and show the difference, and like seeing 655 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 3: is believing, and you start to get their wonder and 656 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 3: they're like, okay, so you haven't won them over yet. 657 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: But then you do that with pork, and then you 658 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 3: do that with foraging, and then you do that with 659 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 3: olive oil, and slowly but surely, about nine months in 660 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 3: the consistency And I think that's one of the things 661 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 3: I learned about lots of the things I love and 662 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 3: people that we love is consistency of how a person is, 663 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 3: how they dress, how they look after their yard or 664 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 3: whatever it might be, and their product. I think for 665 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 3: these young kids they had, most of them got in 666 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 3: trouble with the law because they had no consistency. And 667 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 3: through fifteen and the things that inspired me, we tried 668 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 3: to and we we graduated over eighty percent every year. 669 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 3: And for content text, that's the complete opposite of the 670 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 3: government when they rehabilitate young offenders, so they do about 671 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 3: twenty five. 672 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, we did that for seventeen years until sadly 673 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: it closed. 674 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 4: But it also shows I think back to food. You 675 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 4: know that what you can what food can do, how 676 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 4: food can be, you know, a generator of fairness. As 677 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 4: you were talking about fifteen and taking these kids around, 678 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 4: I was thinking, well, is there something that could be 679 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 4: a catalyst as strong as food to motivate people to taste, 680 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 4: to experiment, to commit to learn. And I think, you know, 681 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 4: I think well maybe, I mean, would you it was 682 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 4: a fact, you know, tailor trying to teach people to 683 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 4: make suits, or a doctor trying to you know, to 684 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 4: get people healthy, all those professions. But there's something about 685 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 4: food which is so compelling. 686 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 3: And I think if you did a broad strokes analysis 687 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 3: of all those young people that got in trouble in 688 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: their life or with the law, like what's beautiful about 689 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 3: cooking is you know, even on a bad day, there's 690 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 3: still I always see it like little jiffy bubbles, you know, 691 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 3: like it's not just a bad day, Like there's still 692 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 3: three or four positive bubbles of something you've learned that day. 693 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 3: So do you know what I mean, And I think 694 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: that's what's so nice about cooking. And then at the 695 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 3: end of the year, you've got all these bubbles that 696 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 3: you've learned, and then it's like, okay. So obviously from 697 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 3: what we'd learned at the River Cafe, we would sit 698 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 3: down and write menus every day and that was and 699 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 3: still is rare, but they kind of that the young 700 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: people would learn about food more from the debate about well, 701 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 3: should we could we? 702 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: Is that right? Is that wrong? 703 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 3: And so that was a very powerful experience for me, 704 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 3: and to be honest, until then, I'd never been political. 705 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 3: I'd never been a campaigner. I'd never had deep seated 706 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 3: feelings about what was right or wrong about I think. 707 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: I think I don't feel that. 708 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 4: I mean, politics is politics, but your values and your fairness, and. 709 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 3: I think they were there, they were there, But I 710 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 3: think the idea of having a voice or expressing them, 711 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 3: or using a platform to amplify stories that had to 712 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 3: be told, I didn't really I didn't feel like i'd 713 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 3: learned that until fifteen, and as I got to know 714 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 3: their stories, and like, when you talk to young kids 715 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: about life of crime, it's so frightening and so sad 716 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 3: and it's so hopeless, and you kind of get down 717 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 3: to sort of nuts and bolts, like you know, mums 718 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 3: and dads that couldn't afford to feed them, and how 719 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 3: like a free school lunch was important, you know, and 720 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 3: like it was the only hot meal of the day, 721 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 3: and you hear it sometimes mentioned, but when you meet it, 722 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 3: when you see it, and you might have like, you know, 723 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 3: a lot of our students could handle themselves because they've 724 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 3: been through such traumatic lives, but yet there were still 725 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 3: grateful for the hot school lunch and to be that 726 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 3: free school lunch kid and the baggage that goes with it. 727 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 3: And of course that I started to realize then because 728 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 3: roughly around the same time, there seemed to be a 729 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 3: lot of press around how bad school lunches were, so 730 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 3: I kind of then went onto that. 731 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 4: And in the next episode, we're going to talk more 732 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 4: about Jamie's school Meals campaign. We'll also head back into 733 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 4: the kitchen with Jamie to make a classic River Cafe recipe. 734 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook is now available in bookshops and online. 735 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated with photographs 736 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty 737 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of 738 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks. 739 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks of all ages. 740 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is a production of iHeart Radio and 741 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 742 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.