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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many serial killers are

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Speaker 1: walking amongst us? How many serial killers yet to be caught?

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Speaker 1: Has a prolific serial killer been caught on tape? And

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Speaker 1: are their more bodies? I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. The search for Samantha

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Speaker 1: Konig leads to a local park as the kidnapper leaves

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Speaker 1: a photo for police. What happened to Samantha? Little did

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Speaker 1: Samantha's father know that photo that was left along with

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Speaker 1: a ransom note. It had Samantha a picture with braids,

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Speaker 1: and her dad immediately knew Samantha never wore her hair

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Speaker 1: like that. Little did her dad know at the time

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Speaker 1: he got the ransom note and he saw the polaroid

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Speaker 1: that Samantha was dead in the photo, her eyes stitched

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Speaker 1: open and makeup artfully applied. How many serial killers are

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Speaker 1: lurking amongst us? This guy is Ciryl Keys, one of

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Speaker 1: the most prolific serial killers to ever stalk our country.

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Speaker 1: Very rarely is a serial killer caught on tape. But

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Speaker 1: listen to this.

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Speaker 2: She was out on the river and it's like, remember

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Speaker 2: you can flow down the people who do it on

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Speaker 2: interviewers and so, and it's just hang out.

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Speaker 3: It's this more remote spot. She was like the last

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Speaker 3: one in her group, grabbing dura puller.

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Speaker 4: On the shore.

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Speaker 1: He speaks of abducting one of his first victims. So

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Speaker 1: casually you are hearing the voice of a prolific serial

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Speaker 1: killer that's taught our country for so long, and the

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Speaker 1: bodies weren't even connected. Authorities didn't realize one guy is

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Speaker 1: responsible for a murder wave. Joining me an all star panel.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you hear more of the prolific serial

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Speaker 1: killer Israel Keys, I want to introduce a longtime friend

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Speaker 1: and colleague. As you may know, I was on HLN

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Speaker 1: for many many years and one of our star producers

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Speaker 1: was Andrew Eiden aka Drew Eiden, who joins us tonight.

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Speaker 1: He is now co host of the Deviant podcast. Andrew,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with.

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Speaker 5: Us, Thanks for having men.

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Speaker 1: This Israel Keys. Do you hear how casually he's describing.

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Speaker 1: He says, she was out on the river, a river

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Speaker 1: you can float down with enerviews, and she was near

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Speaker 1: the end. It's just like the slowest gazelle, Drew. The

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Speaker 1: slowest gazelle is the one the Hyena grabs yep, and

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what he does. I mean, if a Hyaena

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Speaker 1: could talk, it would be him. And he so casually grabs,

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Speaker 1: like describes grabbing her as the rest of the group

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Speaker 1: goes await, It's like, you know, yeah, drove through McDonald's,

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Speaker 1: I got a diet code. Yeah, are you surprised? And

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Speaker 1: how casual he is.

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Speaker 5: It's it's really shocking, honestly, when you listen to when

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Speaker 5: you listen to the hours of his conversations with authorities,

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Speaker 5: the thing that is so mind boggling is the is

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Speaker 5: the callous, cold, detached demeanor with which he outlines all

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Speaker 5: of his car and even some of the crimes that

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Speaker 5: he doesn't really confess to right he What we learned

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Speaker 5: listening to him talk to police is that he loves

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Speaker 5: to walk right up to the edge of a confession

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Speaker 5: and then stop right short of giving them the information

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Speaker 5: they need.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Drew aka Andrew Eiden, hold on just

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Speaker 1: a moment. We talked about this over and over on

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Speaker 1: the NG Show at Ahlman, Let Me go to Daryl

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Speaker 1: Cohen Darryl Cohen, courum superstar, former felony prosecutor, now a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney. You can find him at Cohen Cooper EASTEP

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Speaker 1: and Allen Darryl. How many times did we have I mean,

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Speaker 1: a full fledged criminal, just a bad guy and he,

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Speaker 1: and it's typically a he. People say, why do you

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Speaker 1: hate man? I don't hate man. I just hate men

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Speaker 1: that commit violent crimes. He would go all the way

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Speaker 1: up to the moment and say something like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were driving along and I looked out at the wind,

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Speaker 1: and I heard a gun shot and at that moment,

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Speaker 1: that one critical moment. As Andrew is describing leg all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the moment of the murder and

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Speaker 1: then backs off Nancy.

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Speaker 6: So often because most or at least many of those

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Speaker 6: who have committed Thesehenus crimes cannot admit it to themselves.

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Speaker 6: They believe that what they were doing was a story.

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Speaker 6: They were the fairy tale. They were wonderful people. And

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Speaker 6: oh my gosh, I don't know how that happened. The

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Speaker 6: gun went off. I didn't have the gun, did I really? Maybe? Sure?

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Speaker 6: Maybe perhaps these people?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, was that me that pulled the trigger? And you

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Speaker 1: know another thing, and I want to know if you've

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Speaker 1: noticed this. Bobby Chaconne is joining a special Agent FBI.

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Speaker 1: Former special agent now screenwriter for Criminal Minds, and I

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Speaker 1: want to clue you into a new documentary you can find.

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Speaker 1: It's called After the Fall Little Old Did Bobby and

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Speaker 1: I know we were both in New York the day

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Speaker 1: off September eleven, and this is his painstakingly put together

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Speaker 1: documentary about that day. Bobby Chacone also helped fish the

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Speaker 1: body as I recall, dismembered in black plastic trash bags

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Speaker 1: out of an icy lake. It was you there, you

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Speaker 1: go on top of that ice, trying to pull up

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Speaker 1: the body parts of that Alaskan burist to cement the Koenig.

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Speaker 1: That was you, Bobby Chacone, What do you make of

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Speaker 1: what Drew is telling us about how Israel Keys the

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Speaker 1: serial killer will go all the way up to the

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Speaker 1: point of the murder and then back off. And you

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Speaker 1: know what I've noticed also, Bobby, as you and I

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Speaker 1: have discussed, they very often won't admit that they sexually

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Speaker 1: assaulted a victim, rape, sonomy, the whole thing. They leave

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Speaker 1: that part out. It's like they're more worried about that

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Speaker 1: than they are about the murder.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really interesting where they draw the lines, right,

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Speaker 4: because they're so irrational when you try to figure out

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Speaker 4: the lines they want to draw. In this particular case,

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Speaker 4: when we were going up there to recover Samantha, we

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Speaker 4: were told that she had been dismembered and she was

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Speaker 4: in five separate pieces weighted down. But we were also

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Speaker 4: told that Keys made a demand that he did not

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Speaker 4: want that part of it leaked. He didn't want the

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Speaker 4: part that she had been dismembered leaked to the press,

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Speaker 4: so we had to be very careful. Normally we recover

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Speaker 4: a victim like this, we would bring each body part

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Speaker 4: up in a separate body bag for the medical examiner.

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Speaker 4: They don't like those commingled when they do their analysis.

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Speaker 4: But in this case we put Samantha Oll in one

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Speaker 4: bag and brought it to the surface because the media

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Speaker 4: was at the shorelines with cameras and stuff, and we

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Speaker 4: didn't want to clue them in because Keys made that

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Speaker 4: demand that he didn't mind know that getting out there,

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Speaker 4: that you know, he sexual assaultant and murdered her, but

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Speaker 4: he didn't want his eleven year old daughter to know

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Speaker 4: that he had dismembered her. Really strange line that these

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Speaker 4: guys draw us.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes security cam at the coffee shop where she worked.

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Speaker 1: It was a little pop up in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a parking lot. Really, there is a shopping center around it,

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Speaker 1: a strip center, but the snow was so high at

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Speaker 1: that time no one within the center saw Keys approach

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Speaker 1: the pop up. These are the last known images of

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Speaker 1: Samantha Koenig, who was thrilled about the possibility of becoming

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Speaker 1: a veterinarian making money there at the coffee shop. I

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Speaker 1: guess he didn't want his daughter or anyone else to

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Speaker 1: know that he dismembered her. As to the sex attack,

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Speaker 1: that he blared loud music so no one inside the

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Speaker 1: home could hear him out in a hut outdoors raping her.

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Speaker 1: No one could hear Samantha screaming. And I guess did

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Speaker 1: he not want doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst,

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Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker and star of Paris in Love

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany interesting that he didn't want anyone to know

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Speaker 1: he had dismembered Samantha, and Samantha is one of many.

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Speaker 1: That's how I found out about Israel Keys is through

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Speaker 1: Samantha Koenig investigation, and through Bobby Chacone and now through

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Speaker 1: Andrew Iden. But it's interesting doctor Bethany, the choices serial

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Speaker 1: killers make about what they want publicized and what they

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Speaker 1: want to keep secret.

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Speaker 7: You know, it makes sense to me, Nancy, the questions

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Speaker 7: you've been asking, because first of all, he starts to

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Speaker 7: tell the story to the investigators and then he backs off.

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Speaker 7: I think he's doing that because he's trying to create

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Speaker 7: some excitement in the room and trying to kind of

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Speaker 7: tease them like cat and mouse. Look, the excitement he

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Speaker 7: had before was raping and killing. This is like small potatoes.

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Speaker 7: It's all he can get, but he's going to get

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Speaker 7: it as much as he he can. In the interview,

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Speaker 7: the fact that he is leaving out the sex assaults

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Speaker 7: is because he's trying to minimize the heinous nature of

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Speaker 7: what he did, and he doesn't want the public to

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Speaker 7: know that he dismembered Samantha Koenig because psychopaths are grandiose.

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Speaker 7: You know, he may feel that he's saying that he

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Speaker 7: doesn't want his daughter to find out, but I think

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Speaker 7: there's an inherent narcissism in psychopaths that's a part of

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Speaker 7: the disorder, and on some level, they sort of feel

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Speaker 7: proud of their acts. They feel they have fantasies that

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Speaker 7: they maybe celebrated may go down in history, but oh

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Speaker 7: this dismember part doesn't make him look so good. So

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Speaker 7: he's kind trying to prop up his image a little bit.

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Speaker 1: There going down in history. He's going nowhere but straight

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Speaker 1: to hell. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to you,

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Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen talking about this guy trying to build suspense

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Speaker 1: as he tells his story. Normally I would tell somebody

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Speaker 1: that said that, well, you're crazy, because most criminals are

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Speaker 1: really dumb. They're not building suspense. They're just idiots. This

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Speaker 1: guy eluded police for decades. He had killed kits hidden

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Speaker 1: all over the country. He was never caught. He had

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Speaker 1: multiple mos modus operadi method of operation. He would stalk campgrounds,

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Speaker 1: he would stalk RV camps, he would hang out at

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Speaker 1: rivers like the victim we were just hearing about. But

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Speaker 1: then you've got a case like Samantha Koenig. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this guy probably is did lead authorities on as he

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Speaker 1: was telling his story.

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, he knew exactly what he was doing. He

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Speaker 6: was both bright, he was cunning, he was intelligent, vicious

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Speaker 6: and a sociopath, a psychopath.

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Speaker 4: He was all the.

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Speaker 6: Paths other than a good one. He knew how to

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Speaker 6: elude the police. He also knew how to elude all

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Speaker 6: the other law enforcement agencies because he didn't do it

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Speaker 6: every day, every week, every month. There was no pattern

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Speaker 6: to his pattern, if that makes any sense. So he

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Speaker 6: was able to I can.

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Speaker 1: Tell you this much. I guarantee you there are more bodies.

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Speaker 1: What can we learn? What can we glean from hearing?

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Speaker 1: You'll have to hold your nose to do it, but

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Speaker 1: listen to Israel Keys.

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Speaker 8: Depends what your definitely said.

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Speaker 9: So the first time you had sex with somebody against

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Speaker 9: their room?

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Speaker 8: No, but that was the first time, I answer, like,

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Speaker 8: had someone tied up, you know, like was ready to

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Speaker 8: actually kill do that?

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Speaker 1: You know? Did you hear what he just said? And

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Speaker 1: by the way, he's laughing at snickering during the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Was this the first time you sex assaulted somebody?

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Speaker 10: Uh?

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Speaker 1: No, but it's the first time I took it to

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Speaker 1: that level, like to kill them. Yeah, to do that.

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Speaker 1: And he's laughing, he's snickering as he is saying that.

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Speaker 1: But let's let's take it back. How long had this

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Speaker 1: guy been committing murder's list?

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Speaker 9: Like you said, got to the Army, and anytime i'd

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Speaker 9: get to where I had downtime, or you know, if

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Speaker 9: I if I would leave Nian Bay, get out of

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Speaker 9: Nian Bay, and all that.

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Speaker 4: Stuff was still there.

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Speaker 9: You know, like every time i'd drive and make a

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Speaker 9: drive somewhere.

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Speaker 2: I'd be looking for places, good places to do stuff.

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you to Andrew Iden, now, co host of

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Speaker 1: Deviant Podcast, I guarantee you there are more dead bodies

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Speaker 1: out there we haven't found yet, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: he was in the army. Has he been traced back

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Speaker 1: to wherever he was stationed, and has there been a

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Speaker 1: search for missing women, because it's always occasionally there'll be

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Speaker 1: a murdered man who was with a woman, but he

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Speaker 1: typically prayed on those that were weaker, less powerful, less

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Speaker 1: cunning than he. Andrew, have we heard of any searches

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Speaker 1: in the various places where he was stationed.

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Speaker 5: So what I can tell you is that the FBI

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Speaker 5: and all of the agencies that have been involved in

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Speaker 5: this case from the jump, they've gone to extreme lengths

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Speaker 5: to track down and talk to people that knew keys

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Speaker 5: in the army, So they have infiltrated his entire unit.

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Speaker 5: They've talked to his friends. They've talked to his fellow soldiers,

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Speaker 5: so they've gone into that corner of his life to

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Speaker 5: see if they can flip over some rocks and see

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Speaker 5: if there's anything to find. The other thing that I

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Speaker 5: can tell you is when you talk to the FBI,

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Speaker 5: you know that video of Israel Keys in that interrogation

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Speaker 5: room that's dated twenty twelve. However, this case is still

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Speaker 5: considered active and open. When you talk to the FBI

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Speaker 5: about it, they are very clear, we need information. Is

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Speaker 5: this a guy that's ever come across your radar. There's

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Speaker 5: so much still that we don't know. So this is

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Speaker 5: not a case that is just in the rear view.

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Speaker 5: This is still very much an active investigator.

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Speaker 1: Samantha Koenig, a beautiful young barista at an Alaska and

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Speaker 1: coffee stand, suddenly goes missing that evening. Her father realizes

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Speaker 1: it's way too late for her to have been gone

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Speaker 1: all day and not spoken to him, and he raises

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Speaker 1: the alarm. Samanth the Koenig just one of so so

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Speaker 1: many victims. I'm wanting to hear him speaking about how

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Speaker 1: he finds his victims.

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Speaker 4: I'ms out with.

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Speaker 11: And that place that there's staked out one actually two

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Speaker 11: or three nights. And then I had a park, a

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Speaker 11: couple of parks here in town that I could ride

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Speaker 11: my bike too at those staked out And yeah, there's

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Speaker 11: still a couple of gowns during on a shovel stashed

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Speaker 11: their own.

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Speaker 1: He's describing one of his many, many kill kits that

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Speaker 1: he had stashed all around the country. Andrew Iiden, host

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Speaker 1: of Deviant Podcast, explained.

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Speaker 5: This is a guy that would bury home deboat buckets

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Speaker 5: full of Dreno guns, ropes, chains. He'd bury them in Vermont,

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Speaker 5: he'd bury them in Wisconsin, he'd bury them in Wyoming.

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Speaker 5: And he would do that years in advance. And so

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Speaker 5: you know, he'd bury these, go back to Alaska, live

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Speaker 5: his life for days, weeks, months, years, and then go

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Speaker 5: back to Vermont, dig up that bucket, take it to Essex, Vermont.

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Speaker 5: And ultimately when he killed the couriers Bill in the rain,

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Speaker 5: you know that was with a kill kit that he

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Speaker 5: had buried years ahead of time. So that's really the

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Speaker 5: crux of this meticulous nature that we talk about.

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Speaker 1: All And you know, Bobby Chaconne joining us, former special

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Speaker 1: agent with the FBI, screenwriter his new documentary After the

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Speaker 1: Fall which is an amazing work regarding nine to onein

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Speaker 1: one he and I'm both in New York the day

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Speaker 1: of September eleven. His story is amazing. After the fall,

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Speaker 1: Bobby talking about what Andrew Iiden is describing, It's hard

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Speaker 1: to catch a guy like this. There's no connection to

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Speaker 1: the victims, which that makes it Aneela and Haystack start

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Speaker 1: with he is killing people all across the country. There's

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Speaker 1: no region that has been immune to israel keys, and

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Speaker 1: he hunts his prey like a wolf. And then he

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Speaker 1: has these kill kits already created and hidden buried all

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Speaker 1: around the country.

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Speaker 4: Sure, and from an investigator standpoint, think of it because

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Speaker 4: we've seen cases where when you see when we find

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Speaker 4: a victim that's bound with rope or chain or something

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Speaker 4: like that, and we can tell, oh, this might have

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Speaker 4: been bought at a nearby, say home depot or hardware store,

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Speaker 4: we go out and we ask them to look at

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Speaker 4: their video from the last three months, six months, whatever.

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Speaker 4: Think about that. He's actually avoiding that investigative step because

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Speaker 4: these things will purchase probably years in advance and hidden,

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Speaker 4: so he knew not to buy these things locally and

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Speaker 4: not to buy them recently. But because that's what investigators do,

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Speaker 4: because often we see, oh, they trace the receipt or

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Speaker 4: they trace something that was bought at a home depot,

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Speaker 4: and there's the killer on the video and the home

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Speaker 4: depot buying the things that they used it. So he

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Speaker 4: knew to avoid that. When I went that homicide school,

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Speaker 4: I was working so many mafia cases in New York

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Speaker 4: that they sent me to the NMBD homicide School. You

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Speaker 4: draw a VND diagram. One circle contains the life of

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Speaker 4: the victim and all the people involved in that life,

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Speaker 4: and the other one, the other circle is the geographic

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Speaker 4: location where the victim is found or murdered and where

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Speaker 4: those two overlap. That's where your pool of suspect might

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Speaker 4: come in. Now he's new to stay random to his

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Speaker 4: victim and random to the geographic location. That puts him

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Speaker 4: outside of most In ninety five percent of the investigative

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Speaker 4: avenues that you're going to follow, he's going to be

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Speaker 4: outside of those because he's not related to the victim.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't have what most serial killers have. He doesn't

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Speaker 4: have that victimology, and he doesn't have the geographic kill zone.

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Speaker 4: So those two things he knew to avoid and to

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Speaker 4: stay random, and that was a big part of his success.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because in many, many cases where we have serial killers,

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Speaker 1: their mo never deviates. They are in the same region.

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Speaker 1: There is a way to connect them to their victims.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's been stalking them. He's a grocery store boy,

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Speaker 1: he delivery guy, the yard man. There is a way,

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Speaker 1: even though tangentle, that you can connect the killer to

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Speaker 1: multiple victims. Not in this case. Speaking of Israel Keys,

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Speaker 1: listen from the horse's.

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Speaker 4: Mouth, it's not in anything.

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Speaker 7: It's just ropes or something pulled.

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Speaker 4: That is that the milk chokes. And he said, well,

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Speaker 4: that's what the weeds for milk jokes. How many milk jokes?

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Speaker 4: And they're going to move around, no, how many milk

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Speaker 4: chokes talking about it.

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Speaker 7: At least four or five parta.

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Speaker 6: Just for one body.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, well, Scott Peterson, you didn't have to go to

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Speaker 12: all that trouble making those cement blocks to wait down

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Speaker 12: the body of your wife, Lacy Peterson and her unborn

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Speaker 12: son Connor.

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Speaker 1: You know, take a page out of Israel Key's book.

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Speaker 1: You just use milk jugs. You know, when you think

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Speaker 1: of the callous nature of the planning, the pre planning

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Speaker 1: before your victim has even been murdered, You're already planning

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Speaker 1: to weight down their body in water to hide the

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Speaker 1: body or destroy evidence. What could be more cold, more calculating.

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Speaker 1: Just think about it. As he is spotting these victims,

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Speaker 1: he's already made weights to hold their bodies down underwater.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now, a very special guest, a renowned medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: the chief medical Examiner at Terrance County. That's fort worth,

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Speaker 1: never a lack of business for him. Also a prestigious

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Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's, Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: When a body is weighted down in this manner, as

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Speaker 1: you hear Israel Key say, so deep, the fish don't

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Speaker 1: even go down that far. He has this very well planned.

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Speaker 1: With the body down at the bottom of a body

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Speaker 1: of water, what will that do to the evidence? Over

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Speaker 1: a period of.

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Speaker 13: Time in the depths of a lake, the body will

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Speaker 13: continue to decompose. If it's cold, it'll decompose at a

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Speaker 13: slower rate. But you'll also get fish and other aquatic

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Speaker 13: creatures that will eat at the body. So eventually the

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Speaker 13: body will skeletonize. The problem is with weighting the body down.

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Speaker 13: You have to have enough weight to compensate for when

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Speaker 13: the body decomposes and the gas formation begins, the body

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Speaker 13: will bloat or swell up like a balloon and then

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Speaker 13: will float back up to the top of the surface.

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Speaker 13: I've seen people weighted down with paint cans that still

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Speaker 13: float up, cinder blocks, they'll still float up. Even a

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Speaker 13: gentleman that was wrapped in a carpet and shoved in

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Speaker 13: a trash can that was a duct tape shut, he

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Speaker 13: still bobbed up once he decomposed enough. So you have

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Speaker 13: to have enough weight to compensate for the decomposition and

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Speaker 13: it'll still float up. But if they're underneath the water

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Speaker 13: for a long enough period of time, they will decompose, skeletonize,

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Speaker 13: and all the evidence will disappear.

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Speaker 10: James Koenig tries to be patient. By twelve thirty PM,

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Speaker 10: he's on the phone with the Anchorage Police Department reporting

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Speaker 10: his eighteen year old daughter, Samantha missing. He tells police

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Speaker 10: his daughter never came home the night before from her

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Speaker 10: job at common Grounds Espresso. Patrol officers begin asking questions

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Speaker 10: in the area. No signs of a break in, no struggle,

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Speaker 10: no blood. Getting a look at surveillance video, police see

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Speaker 10: a masked man jumping through the window of common Grounds

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Speaker 10: and leading Samantha away.

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Speaker 1: Samantha Koenig's case brought a great deal of notoriety to

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Speaker 1: the killer. Little did authorities realize at the time of

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Speaker 1: her disappearance they were dealing with a very cunning serial killer.

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Speaker 10: Listen just before eight pm closing time at common Grounds

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Speaker 10: Coffee in Anchorage, Alaska, Israel Keys walks up to the

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Speaker 10: parking lot kiosk and orders an Americano coffee. Eighteen year

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Speaker 10: old Samantha Koenig is finishing up her shift and it

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Speaker 10: looks like Keyes might be her last customer. Turning to

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Speaker 10: hand the man his coffee, Samantha Kenig sees the gun

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Speaker 10: in his hand. Keyes tells her it's robbery to turn

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Speaker 10: off the lights. Key's reaches in and quickly at zip

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Speaker 10: top Cunning's hands behind her back and climbs through the

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Speaker 10: window into the kiosk.

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Speaker 1: And what is so amazing here? To dtor Bethany Marshall's

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Speaker 1: Psychoalla's joining us out of la is this is brazen

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Speaker 1: There as you can see are parking lights illuminating the area.

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Speaker 1: It's right on a very busy thoroughfare street. There's a

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Speaker 1: huge snowbank about six to twelve feet tall surrounding the

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Speaker 1: coffee shop. So many people didn't see what was going on.

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Speaker 1: But that takes a lot of hootspot to go in

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Speaker 1: where people can see you and attack the barista and

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Speaker 1: lead her out.

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Speaker 7: Nancy Israel Keys was becoming increasingly emboldened to act out

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Speaker 7: his sexual fantasies, his killing fantasies with these victims. So

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Speaker 7: he starts out in the army, you know, just kind

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Speaker 7: of trolling around looking for possible sites. But this becomes

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Speaker 7: a compulsion that's so deeply baked into his DNA that

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Speaker 7: he's thinking about it all the time, and it becomes

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Speaker 7: very ritualized. The search extends to all over the United States,

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Speaker 7: and it's almost as satisfying to search for victims to

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Speaker 7: bury the kill kits as it is to actually act

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Speaker 7: out the crime. But by the time he gets to

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Speaker 7: Samantha Konig, he's graduated. It's where people could see him.

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Speaker 7: He stitches her eyes open, he makes braids with her hair.

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Speaker 7: He does it in a shed right outside his family home.

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Speaker 7: So at this point It's like he's getting not only

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Speaker 7: more and more emboldened, but it's like a sex addict

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Speaker 7: that starts out going to strip clubs and then they

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Speaker 7: kind of rape somebody, and then pretty much they start

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Speaker 7: graduating to children and kitty porn because they need more

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Speaker 7: and more and more in order to excite them. And Nancy,

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Speaker 7: these interviews that we're seeing, I think he's talking sort

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Speaker 7: of calmly and matter of fact because he imagines he's

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Speaker 7: now the expert on killing. He's the world's leading expert.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of like a car collector who maybe has

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Speaker 7: two hundred cars and he's walking someone around and said,

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Speaker 7: you know, this one is made in nineteen sixty eight,

434
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 7: and this is special stitching, and look at the paint job,

435
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 7: and that person knows their stuff. Israel Key feels like

436
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 7: he knows his stuff. So he's going to take time

437
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 7: with his interview so he can kind of educate the world.

438
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 7: Be the celebrity, be at the center of things. Like

439
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 7: I said earlier, go down in history. This is a

440
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 7: part of the ritual is talking about it.

441
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: You know, let's just cut the chase here to Bobby

442
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: Chico and former Special Agent FBI and then to Drew Eiden,

443
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: co host of Deviant Bobby Chacone, you know that as

444
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: he is telling his story to authorities, he's getting turned

445
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: on as he's sitting there underneath that table. I don't

446
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: want to know what's under that table. I guarantee you.

447
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: As he's telling his story, he's reliving the rapes and

448
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: the murders.

449
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 4: Oh sure. And you know that by his posture and

450
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: by his attitude, his language. And I think he's enjoying

451
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: the fact that several of the investigators in the room

452
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 4: or women, and I think he's getting off on that

453
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 4: as well. I think this is his As doctor Bethany

454
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 4: mentioned earlier, this is kind of his last guest. He

455
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 4: knows he's he's nobody. He's not getting out, and what

456
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 4: little joy he can get, his psychosexual joy he can get,

457
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 4: is going to come in.

458
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: This by Bobby, get real from plays as if you

459
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: hadn't already been real. How many times have you sat

460
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: across from a defendant light Keys? Actually I don't know

461
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: that there is another defendant like Keys, but a definant

462
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: similar to Keys. And you know, as you're talking to

463
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: him and he's giving his story, he's getting turned on.

464
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: I don't guess you need your mind to go to

465
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: that extent about exactly what's happening under that table. But

466
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: you know it's true. It's oh really because you and

467
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: I know what a murder saying is really like. It's

468
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: not like in the movies. It's horrible, but he likes it.

469
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, And at that point, I mean, you can see

470
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 4: a candy bar that they brought to him, you know,

471
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: on the table there. I mean, look, what what they're

472
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 4: doing is they are hyper focused. You know, Nancy, there's

473
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 4: a prosecutor in there that they're hyper focused at getting

474
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: him on the record to say things that are going

475
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: they're going to be able to use against him in

476
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 4: a court in proceedings. So all of that other stuff

477
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: is kind of you have to deal with it, but

478
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: you kind of put it aside because you need to

479
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 4: get the admissions, you need to get the confessions, you

480
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 4: need to get the statements he's going to say out

481
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 4: of his mouth. You can't kind of extrapolate it. You

482
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 4: have to get him to say those things. So you

483
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 4: ask him the question eight different times, get him to

484
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: say the words I kill them, you know, and that

485
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 4: kind of thing. So they're hyper focused on that and

486
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: the rest of that stuff you just have to deal

487
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 4: with kind of on the side in the background, and

488
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 4: to get him.

489
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: To okay, you know what, maybe you can set it aside.

490
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: Bobby Chaconne, but Andrew Iden, the co host of a

491
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: deviant podcast. Every time you play these caught on tape

492
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: videos and audio, you know that as he is describing

493
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: the rapes and the murders, he's reliving it in his mind,

494
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: and as doctor Bethany calls it, his arousal is full on.

495
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: So just keep that in mind when you're watching him,

496
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: because that's where he's coming from. That's the way his

497
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: mind works. To rape and murder somebody and murder the

498
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: husband and murder the boyfriend or whoever else is around.

499
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: That's his idea of dinner hythm.

500
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, And in fact, you know, when you look at

501
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 5: him having these conversations with law enforcement in the interrogation room,

502
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 5: you can see that. And one of the things we

503
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 5: learned in talking to Jeff Bell, who was a detective

504
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 5: in that room with the Anchorage PD. He told us

505
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 5: in the process of doing this this series is that

506
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: the chair that Key sat in there was a there

507
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 5: was a day that they were sitting in a wooden chair,

508
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 5: and he said, Key scratched the wood off of the

509
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 5: arms of the chair while he was retelling the story.

510
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 5: And he said, you could see the hair on his

511
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 5: arms standing up. And so it was apparent to Jeff Bell,

512
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 5: who's writing that video, that he was seeing this all

513
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 5: unfold while Keys was telling him.

514
00:30:47,240 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: This crime stories with Nancy Grace Andrew. I I'm totally

515
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: going to listen to every every single episode of Deviant

516
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: because when you were just describing, it's your Keys scratching

517
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: the wood on the chair as he's telling the story Jackie,

518
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, Jackie and our producer actually had to get

519
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: rid of the shivers are off.

520
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 5: Yes, well, I was gonna say, I think oftentimes when

521
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 5: we talk about these stories, oftentimes there's a lot of

522
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 5: hyperbole involved in about in describing these things. But everything

523
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 5: that Israel Keys is is a real life horror film

524
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 5: from start to finish.

525
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: I mean, look at Nancy. If you look at that

526
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 4: video there you see on the left that Jolene I

527
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 4: believe that's Jolene the FBI case A check. But you

528
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 4: can look at her posture, look at how she's you

529
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 4: can almost see how how repulse she is by this,

530
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: her hands are by her sides, by her sides, or

531
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 4: hands are in her lives. I mean you, as a

532
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 4: normal person, you know, being in the presence of such evil,

533
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: you you are affected by you repulse by it.

534
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: Of course, somebody like Israel Keys has to have the

535
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: perfect let me just say, perfectly outfitted vehicle.

536
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 10: Listen, the truck Israel Keys is driving has been temporarily

537
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 10: modified before he left the house. He removed the permanent

538
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 10: toolbox from the back and took off both license plates.

539
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 10: Keys demand Samantha Cone give him her ATM card, but

540
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 10: she tells him it's in the truck she shares with

541
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 10: her boyfriend at their house. Keys drives to his house,

542
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 10: ties up coning in the shed, turns up the radio,

543
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 10: allows that nobody can hear her scream, then leaves to

544
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 10: retrieve her ATM card from her truck. As Keys is

545
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 10: retrieving the ATM card, Samantha Cooney's boyfriend sees him and

546
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 10: shouts Ducking into the house and gets some help. He

547
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 10: tries to confront the man messing with his truck, but

548
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 10: when he comes out of the house, he's is gone.

549
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: A narrow escape, but yes, he does escape, but what

550
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: about Samantha. Listen.

551
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 10: Samantha Coning is tied up in his shed in back

552
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 10: of the home Israel Keys shares with his girlfriend and

553
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 10: her daughter. When Keys arrives back at the shed, he

554
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 10: sexually assaults Samantha Konig twice. Then first thing in the morning,

555
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 10: he strangles her to death and puts her body in

556
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 10: a freezer. Then leaves with his girlfriend for a pre

557
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 10: booked family cruise vacation, leaving out of New Orleans.

558
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: Okay, that's like putting the leftovers from dinner into the

559
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: freezer then heading out on vacation. He did that to

560
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: Samantha's body, but he wasn't done yet. Listen.

561
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 10: Returning from his two week family vacation, Israel Keys removes

562
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 10: the now frozen corpse of Samantha Konig, using a hairdryer

563
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 10: to thaw her out. He uses makeup and braids her

564
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 10: hair to take a proof of life photo he's going

565
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 10: to use for the ransom. Taking a picture of Samantha,

566
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 10: Israel Key's arm is seen holding a copy of the

567
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 10: Anchorage Daily News from February twelfth. He places a black

568
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 10: and white copy of the photo in his ziplock baggy

569
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 10: with a ransom demand of thirty thousand dollars deposited into

570
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 10: the account of Samantha Konig and tapes it to a

571
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 10: missing dog poster in Connor's bog part.

572
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: And then Samantha's father is led to that park where

573
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: he sees the ransom photo and the money demand. Okay,

574
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: let me understand this, Andrew Iden joining us, co host

575
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: of Deviant podcast. He uses a hair dryer to thaw

576
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: out her body.

577
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, the details of what he did after he got

578
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 5: back from that Houston that cruise are horrific. And disposing

579
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 5: of her body in the lake after he had pulled

580
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 5: her remains out of that shed, that period after the

581
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 5: cruise for about two weeks is truly some of the

582
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 5: most terrific things that I've ever read and never heard

583
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 5: in covering crime for twenty years.

584
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: What aspect are you describing? Are you to which you

585
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: are referring Andrew.

586
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 5: Well, it's the process of him dumping her body in

587
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 5: the lake piece by piece and basically making sure that

588
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 5: all of the things that he did are it up.

589
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 5: And it's just it's horrific. I mean, it's a horror film.

590
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned before, Doctor Bethony Jump in.

591
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 7: If we think of raping and killing as a part

592
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 7: of a sexual act for him, that the whole ritual

593
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 7: is arousing. I think what happened is that he had

594
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 7: to do it right before the cruise because he knows

595
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 7: that he knew that on the cruise he wouldn't be

596
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 7: able to act out his killing homicidal instinct. It's a

597
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 7: little bit like with alcoholics we see sometimes the night

598
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 7: before they go into detox or rehab, they binge. This

599
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 7: was like his binge before appearing with sobriety, and he

600
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 7: was probably thinking about it all throughout the cruise and

601
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 7: planning his return.

602
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, can't you look at a body a

603
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: determined whether it has been frozen.

604
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 13: You can look at a body and when someone dies

605
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 13: of hyper hypothermia, you can tell that there are changes

606
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 13: about the body that kind of turn a reddish pink color.

607
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 13: If a body's been frozen, the lividity or the post

608
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 13: mortem coloration change will be kind of a bright red color.

609
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 13: But beyond that, there is not really any changes that

610
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 13: you can see with a frozen body that are specific

611
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 13: to that.

612
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 10: After getting a confession from Israel Keys, the FBI dive

613
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 10: team is tasked with attempting to recover Samantha Konig's body

614
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 10: from frozen Matatanuska Lake. Before a search can begin, a

615
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 10: four foot by four foot hole is cut in the

616
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 10: ice with chainsaws. The FBI dive team resorts to using

617
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 10: sonar to guide them in low visibility, and it takes

618
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 10: the team of experts about ten hours to recover the

619
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 10: body of Samantha cone Enter.

620
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: A former FBI special agent, Bobby Chickone, now screenwriter for

621
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: Criminal Minds and creator of a new documentary After the Fall,

622
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: Bobby described what it was like out there, what you

623
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: went through trying to retrieve Samantha Koenig's body.

624
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, first of all, it was the brightest, clearest,

625
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 4: most beautiful day.

626
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 14: And that was the dichotomy of the situation, was that

627
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 14: we were in this immensely beautiful location with the mountains

628
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 14: and the snow, and we were doing this horrific mission

629
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 14: to recover this poor young woman.

630
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 4: You know, when it was tough. The conditions were tough,

631
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 4: but we've done this before. We certainly dived in tougher conditions.

632
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 4: But it wasn't that deep. It was about forty five

633
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 4: feet deep. The entire dive took about forty five minutes.

634
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 4: It wasn't a It was long to set up. You see,

635
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 4: whenever you're working around ice and a holes, everybody has

636
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 4: to be tethered in somewhere to a hard point so

637
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: if you fall in, so there's this safety considerations. But

638
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 4: the dive itself was not that difficult. Everything matched exactly

639
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 4: what Keys told us it was in the location. We

640
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: saw the five different parts that he told us about.

641
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 4: It was a torso there was two legs, there was

642
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 4: two arms that were down together as one, and that

643
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 4: was her head. And so those are the five pieces

644
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 4: that showed up on the sonar. We sent a small

645
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 4: mini RV down with a camera to make sure it

646
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 4: was human remains. And then once we did those two methods,

647
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 4: then I splashed the divers and that dive took about

648
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 4: forty five minutes. Again, like I said, it would have

649
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: taken longer, but we were able to put Samantha all

650
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 4: into one body bag because of the fact that Keys

651
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 4: had made that demand on us not to tip off

652
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: the press that she had been dismembered. But certainly when

653
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 4: I handled Samantha's remains, I could tell that some of

654
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: the water had washed off, and I saw the stitching

655
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: on her eyelids as I was transferring her to the

656
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 4: possession of the medical examiners investigators who were there taking

657
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 4: possession of her remains.

658
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: And then we find out in a completely differentm method

659
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: of operation than murders of Bill and Lorran Courrier.

660
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 10: Listen, during a vacation to Vermont, Israel, Keys burries a

661
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 10: five gallon orange bugget filled with zip ties, ammunition guns, silencers,

662
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 10: draino duct tape, and a flashlight in her remote corner

663
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 10: of the woodside natural area off Vermont fifteen. Over the years,

664
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 10: Keys has buried several killed kids in places he's been traveling.

665
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 10: Years later, Keys digs up the kit in Vermont out

666
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 10: the home of Bill and Lorraine Courier. There are no

667
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 10: children in the home and it's within walking distance of

668
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 10: his hotel.

669
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: Andrew Iiden, co host of Deviant Podcast, I've got too

670
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: many Keys as victims, and there's still so many other

671
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: victims that we don't know about, haven't found their bodies yet.

672
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: But here we see a start dichotomy in the way

673
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 1: he murdered and dismembered Samantha Koenig and the way he

674
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: murdered and left the couriers. Explain about the couriers.

675
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so Bill and the Rain would lived in Essex, Vermont,

676
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 5: and Israel Keys talked at length about waiting outside their home,

677
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 5: cutting the phone line to disable the security system, kidnapping

678
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 5: them essentially, and taking them a few miles away to

679
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 5: an abandoned farmhouse, and that's where he sexually assaulted Lorraine,

680
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 5: strangled her, and actually shot Bill in the midst of it.

681
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 5: Kind of a struggle they were having in the house,

682
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 5: and he left their remains there. So you're right, Bill

683
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 5: and the Rain in that crime is everything that Samantha

684
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 5: Koenig was not right. It was two, it was instead

685
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 5: of one. They were older, Samantha was younger. You know,

686
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 5: they were in Vermont, Samantha was in Alaska. So there's

687
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 5: really kind of a dichotomy between these two crimes, as

688
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 5: you mentioned with mo, they're two very different crimes in

689
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 5: a lot of different ways.

690
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: We know of the eleven to which he has admitted,

691
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: and we believe there is somewhere that we'll be discovered

692
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: at some point somewhere between twenty and thirty bodies Israel

693
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: Keys serial killer. Thank you so much to the guests

694
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: joining us today, but especially to you, Nancy Gray signing

695
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: off good night friend,