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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to George Nor along with Alison Karmen

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Speaker 2: as we talk about our work the gifts of maybe,

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Speaker 2: finding hope and possibility in uncertain times. Allison, could you

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Speaker 2: also say, though, that maybe also means uncertainty.

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Speaker 3: That's a really interesting question. I think that we can

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Speaker 3: equate the two. I think we could put them close together.

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Speaker 3: I think uncertainty is not knowing, and I think the

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Speaker 3: maybe all the all the possibilities that exist in the unknown.

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Speaker 3: So they're like a brother and a sister.

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Speaker 2: Make me look at them like that is either one

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Speaker 2: better than the other.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that uncertainty just exists. I think that

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Speaker 3: life is uncertain. We can't know what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 3: And I think the maybe. I guess we could say

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Speaker 3: there could be good or there could be bad, and

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Speaker 3: so they both just exist, I guess at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And I guess because we have a tendency to lean

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Speaker 3: towards the maybe. Not when I talk about the maybe,

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Speaker 3: it's bringing in the more hopeful side. But if you

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Speaker 3: just look at them, I think they just are in

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Speaker 3: a way. It is what it is, but we have

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Speaker 3: to just remember the other side of it, because that's

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Speaker 3: when we fall into despair, when we think that life

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Speaker 3: has no hope, when we don't like what's happening today,

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Speaker 3: we believe it can't get better tomorrow. So when we

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Speaker 3: see both sides of the maybe and we start to

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Speaker 3: see uncertainty is a place of possibility, we return back

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Speaker 3: to balance and harmony within ourselves.

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Speaker 2: See if I've always recommended people take a stand on

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Speaker 2: something right or wrong, take a stand on it and

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Speaker 2: pay the price for the ramifications.

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Speaker 3: Right, but maybe doesn't take that from you because I

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Speaker 3: think in the moment, we have wisdom. In the moment,

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Speaker 3: we have things we care about. In the moment, we

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Speaker 3: make decisions, and I think when people hear them, maybe

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Speaker 3: at first they're like, what are you talking about? That's

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Speaker 3: like a Pollyanna kind of thing. It's like it's wishy wash.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: What it is is that if you care about something,

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Speaker 3: you say I believe in X. But what happens is

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Speaker 3: the reason why people don't follow through on X. The

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Speaker 3: reason why people don't change the world is because they

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Speaker 3: look into the future and they're like, I can't make

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Speaker 3: a difference I can't make a change. And so when

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Speaker 3: you stand there, the reason why you see people not

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Speaker 3: having courage, you see people not having resilience, is because

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Speaker 3: the uncertainty frightens them to death. So they care about

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Speaker 3: things so much, but they don't believe that they can

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Speaker 3: execute it on it. They don't believe they could change

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Speaker 3: the world. So I think, what maybe does. It gives

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Speaker 3: people the resilience to go forward with the things that

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Speaker 3: they care about. And I think that's one of the

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Speaker 3: biggest misconceptions about it, is why don't we act, Why

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Speaker 3: don't we change the world. Why don't we have more conviction?

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Speaker 3: It's because we're afraid of uncertainty. If I take that

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Speaker 3: risk and I speak up, I'll lose my job. But

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Speaker 3: how about if you take that risk, maybe the world

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Speaker 3: could be a better place. So it's again, it's giving

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Speaker 3: people more courage.

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Speaker 2: And what if you do it a little more tactfulness,

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Speaker 2: it's good too. And you know, it's conceivable you can

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Speaker 2: take that same thing and approach it in a very

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Speaker 2: tactful way and get it done.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: You could use That's what maybe does like for me,

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Speaker 3: if I'm dealing with it matter, if I'm dealing with

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Speaker 3: you know, I still do some legal work sometimes, or

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Speaker 3: I have a problem with my child, whatever I'm dealing with.

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Speaker 3: If I look at it and I say, can never

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Speaker 3: get better, things are horrible, things are bad, things will

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Speaker 3: never work out. Where am I going to get my courage?

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Speaker 3: How am I going to try? And what's so interesting too?

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Speaker 3: If you believe in something and you stay in the maybe,

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Speaker 3: you're going to access more possibilities because if you think

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Speaker 3: about it, if you're fully present, if you don't worry

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Speaker 3: about the future, you are present and all things are

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Speaker 3: created in the present. So you've become a much more

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Speaker 3: powerful human being if you can know what you know

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Speaker 3: through your wisdom in the moment and you believe in

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Speaker 3: the maybe for the future.

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Speaker 2: How do you equate stress and anxiety?

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Speaker 3: I think that stress is when we're in the moment

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Speaker 3: and we resist it so and all resistance creates negativity.

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Speaker 3: So what we're doing is we're going against you know

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Speaker 3: when you said before it is what it is. We

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Speaker 3: are fighting that, we are fighting what's happening. We are

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Speaker 3: fighting what is And again resistance become we become negative.

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Speaker 3: And when we become negative, we don't see clearly when

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Speaker 3: we become negative, we don't look at possibilities, we stop trying.

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Speaker 3: And there's another experience. Right, If you accept what is

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Speaker 3: in the moment, and you believe in the possibilities, and

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Speaker 3: you stay open and you stay in the maybe you're

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Speaker 3: not stressed. When I think of anxiety, I think of

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Speaker 3: looking into the future and believing that things are going

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Speaker 3: to be bad, they're never going to work out, and

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Speaker 3: they're never going to change. So I look at stress

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Speaker 3: as resisting the moment, and I look at as anxiety

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Speaker 3: is resisting the future. What can possibly be.

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Speaker 2: Why do some people Ellison get depressed and others don't.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: I do think that some people have chemical imbalances, right,

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Speaker 3: I do think people have genetic tendencies. I think people

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Speaker 3: have traumas from their childhood. There are so many reasons

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Speaker 3: why people get depressed, besides, you know, their resistance, and

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Speaker 3: besides their fear of the future. But if we just

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Speaker 3: focus on the fear of the future, and we focus

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Speaker 3: on stress, and we focus on what's happening in the world,

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Speaker 3: what happens again is they fall into a level of despair.

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Speaker 3: And what despair is is despair is really an addiction

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Speaker 3: to certainty. We look at the moment, and we can't

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Speaker 3: believe that life will ever change. We cannot believe we

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Speaker 3: could have the life that we want. We can't believe

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Speaker 3: anything could ever be different, and so we live in

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Speaker 3: this darkness. We live in this place where this is

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Speaker 3: what life is and it will never be different, and

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Speaker 3: it just becomes darker and darker. And so I don't

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Speaker 3: think that's the only reason people become depressed, but I

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Speaker 3: do believe that fear of the unknown is something that

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Speaker 3: causes a lot of depression because we feel stuck. We

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Speaker 3: feel we're stuck in darkness and life can never change.

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Speaker 2: How do we find this path to achieve the possibilities

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Speaker 2: of things that we're going after.

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Speaker 3: Well, for me, where it started is what I would do,

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Speaker 3: and I think I'm going to give an exercise that

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Speaker 3: I think could be helpful. Is the first thing that

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Speaker 3: you can do if you could ask yourself what your

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Speaker 3: biggest fear is. Fear I'm never going to get another job,

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Speaker 3: I'm never going to fall in love, my child is

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Speaker 3: never going to get through this problem. And the beautiful

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Speaker 3: thing about uncertainty is you can't know, So you get

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Speaker 3: to question your fear. You get to say Are you

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent certain you're never going to get another job?

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Speaker 3: Are you one hundred percent certain your child is not

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Speaker 3: going to get through this? Are you certain you're never

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Speaker 3: going to fall in love again? So you cast doubt

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Speaker 3: on the fear, and that's the beauty of it. You

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Speaker 3: use uncertainty against your fear. And because you can't know

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Speaker 3: anything for sure, you can't know the future for sure.

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Speaker 3: I don't know one hundred percent sure my life's not

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Speaker 3: going to get better, it's not going to change. And

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Speaker 3: then you start doing maybe statements, and again, it sounds

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Speaker 3: so simple, but if you do maybe statements against your

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Speaker 3: fear for twenty minutes, you're going to lighten up, even

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Speaker 3: if your fear exists, even if you say, wow, I'm

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Speaker 3: still afraid I'm not going to fall in love. When

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Speaker 3: you do maybe statements, you realize that, well, maybe my

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Speaker 3: life can change, Maybe things could be different. Maybe I

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Speaker 3: can go on a dating app, Maybe I can apply

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Speaker 3: for a new job, maybe I can call my friend Joe. Again,

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Speaker 3: sounds simple, but you're offering yourself other possibilities other than

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Speaker 3: the fear that keeps you up at night. And then

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Speaker 3: the path starts to open because again, when you feel

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Speaker 3: a little hope, life starts to change. It's like you

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Speaker 3: open up a window and that's how the path starts.

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Speaker 3: I find that when people start to hang out in

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Speaker 3: the maybe, it's kind of like a cognitive faith where

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Speaker 3: they're willing to hang out in the unknown. The will

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Speaker 3: willing to believe they're not doomed. They're willing to believe

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Speaker 3: they're not stuck, and they're willing to believe that something

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Speaker 3: else might be possible other than their biggest fear. And

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Speaker 3: then they follow through on their convictions, They follow through

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Speaker 3: on their dreams and the things that they want in

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Speaker 3: their life.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot about the late comedian actor Robin Williams,

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Speaker 2: who to me was absolutely brilliant, but he had a

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Speaker 2: brain disorder. It was, you know, called Louis body dementia

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Speaker 2: that affected him and he killed himself. Yes, could there

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Speaker 2: have been a way to save him.

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Speaker 3: I don't know his particular circumstance. I think that, you know,

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Speaker 3: we all leave this earth one day, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I always say, until our last breath, we have maybe.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know what his maybe's are. You know,

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Speaker 3: for him, he might have been in a situation where,

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Speaker 3: you know, he wasn't clear about his thinking, so maybe

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Speaker 3: he couldn't even get to that wait. I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: Possibly there were things they didn't try, but that would

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Speaker 3: be really hard for me to comment on that. You know,

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Speaker 3: I always say, until our last breath, we have maybe,

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Speaker 3: But I don't know what his particular you know maybe

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Speaker 3: is in you know, you're reminding me of a story.

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Speaker 3: I had a client once who called me up. His

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Speaker 3: mother was in the ICU, and he was a big

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Speaker 3: Maybe fan. He used maybe in his business, maybe his life.

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Speaker 3: And he called me up, yelling and he said, where's

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Speaker 3: the maybe, where's the maybe. He's like, my mom is

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Speaker 3: dying in the ICU. And what I said to him,

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Speaker 3: I said, you know something, this is what is in

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Speaker 3: front of you right now. And I said, the only thing,

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Speaker 3: the only maybe there is is maybe there's something left

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Speaker 3: for your experience in this moment. And I said, go

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Speaker 3: back in that room and feel your mother's pulse and

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Speaker 3: hug your mother and kiss your mother. She's still here

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Speaker 3: in the moment. And he got off the phone with

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Speaker 3: me and he went back in the room and he

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Speaker 3: called me two days later and he said, I cannot

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Speaker 3: tell you how thankful I am for that call you

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Speaker 3: had with me, because I was so thinking about the future.

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Speaker 3: I was so thinking about my mother dying that I

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Speaker 3: didn't see the maybe of the moment. And it was

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Speaker 3: one of the most sacred moments I've ever had with

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Speaker 3: my mother. I sat there and I felt her pulse,

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Speaker 3: and I sat there and I touched her face, and

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Speaker 3: I sat there and I hugged her, and I made

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Speaker 3: the most of what was left in the moment. And

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Speaker 3: that's what maybe is. It's not selling people a yacht,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's seeing life for what

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Speaker 3: it is, but it's getting the most out of it.

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Speaker 3: What happens sometimes is our mind goes into the future.

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Speaker 3: It's going to end. I'm not going to live forever,

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Speaker 3: and we forget that the preciousness of life is in

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Speaker 3: the moment we're in. That's where we create, that's where

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Speaker 3: we live. And so for him, his mother was passing,

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Speaker 3: but he had moments left with her. So that's what

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Speaker 3: Maybe does. It brings us back and says what's still possible.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know about Robin Williams, but I know

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Speaker 3: for my friend, with his mother, he got the most

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Speaker 3: of what was left.

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Speaker 2: You gave him the closure he needed, and also.

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Speaker 3: The closure, but also the preciousness of the moment. You know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes we're only thinking about tomorrow when the gift is

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Speaker 3: right in front of us.

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Speaker 2: How important is it to develop a child to be

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Speaker 2: in the.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it is everything. If I remember, my daughter tried

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Speaker 3: out for her first play and she was positive. She goes,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get this role, and it was for

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Speaker 3: like the Wizard of Oz and she was I don't know,

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Speaker 3: she was in fourth grade, I think, And the day,

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Speaker 3: you know, the cast list went up and she was positive.

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Speaker 3: She was like positive thinking all the way. She was

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Speaker 3: on the wads and she kept going back and back

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Speaker 3: and back and her name didn't appear, and she came

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Speaker 3: home and she says, that's it. I'm quitting. I was positive.

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Speaker 3: I tried really hard. I thought it was going to happen,

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Speaker 3: and it didn't. And if we sell our kids positive

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Speaker 3: thinking and they don't like what they see, they're just

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Speaker 3: going to give up because they're not going to see

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Speaker 3: what they need to see to keep the courage to

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Speaker 3: keep the convictions. What you give her on that day,

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Speaker 3: I said, you know, Morgan, my daughter's name is Morgan.

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Speaker 3: I said, you know, maybe you were not supposed to

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Speaker 3: be in that play. Maybe there's something else you can do,

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Speaker 3: and maybe you need to take voice lessons, and maybe

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Speaker 3: you need to take acting lessons. And we just started

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Speaker 3: to look at all the different things she could do

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Speaker 3: and I said, you know, so maybe next time. So

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Speaker 3: she actually started to play the piano and the guitar

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Speaker 3: and she started to sing, and it kept her interest

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Speaker 3: in the theater going, and I said, you never know, maybe,

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Speaker 3: and she tried out the next year and she got

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Speaker 3: the little part of a squirrel. But yes, it was something,

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Speaker 3: and in the end her senior year she actually had

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Speaker 3: a starring role Into the Woods. She played the witch

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Speaker 3: and she actually sang. She had a solo and she

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Speaker 3: ended up doing theater in college. So it was that

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Speaker 3: moment where she could have looked at it as a

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Speaker 3: death knell, but instead we started talking about the maybe

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Speaker 3: because you know, it's so interesting. Life asks us to

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Speaker 3: believe in something before it happens, and that's why people

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Speaker 3: don't pursue their goals because they don't see things going

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Speaker 3: their way. They don't see what they want happening until

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Speaker 3: they give up. And so it maybe you stay with

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Speaker 3: it longer because you just keep opening up. Well, maybe

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Speaker 3: next time, or maybe this, or maybe that. Even with

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Speaker 3: my book, I mean to get rejected so many times,

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Speaker 3: I just kept going and here I am on the

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Speaker 3: phone with.

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Speaker 2: You on six and forty radio stations across the country.

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Speaker 3: There you go, the power of maybe.

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Speaker 2: Could Maybe they'll be considered indecisive.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's the biggest misconception of it. And

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Speaker 3: I think what we talked about before that people think

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Speaker 3: it's wishy washy, it's not. It's we all know how

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Speaker 3: we feel about a lot of things in life, and

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Speaker 3: where we don't follow through again is because we're afraid

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Speaker 3: of the unknown. We're afraid of what we don't see.

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Speaker 3: So the maybe just allows us to be flexible. It

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Speaker 3: allows us to deal with the twists and turns to

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Speaker 3: get to the thing that we want. So I think

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Speaker 3: people are thinking, oh, maybe this, maybe that. No, it

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Speaker 3: is more dealing with the fact that we live in

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Speaker 3: the maybe not when we don't believe things are possible.

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Speaker 3: So I guess you know, one can interpret it is

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Speaker 3: that someone could just sit in the moment and not

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Speaker 3: make it the decision. But for me, how I look

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Speaker 3: at it that maybe I talk about is an expanse

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Speaker 3: of maybe maybe that makes us more successful, more joyous,

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Speaker 3: and more present, but it could be seen that way

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Speaker 3: if people want to use it that way.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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