Speaker 1: So, I you guys know how much I love shoes.
Speaker 1: One of my gifts from writer here is a shoe candle.
Speaker 1: I just, I have loved shoes since I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I loved my mom's shoes. Then when I was old
Speaker 1: enough to start buying my own shoes, I've just I've
Speaker 1: loved heels and Espa drills and sneakers and wedges and.
Speaker 2: What's an Esqua drill? I'm sorry I heard. I understood
Speaker 2: everything else, but what's an drill?
Speaker 3: Is a type of poem. It's sixteen lines exactly. Doesn't
Speaker 3: it sound like it should be.
Speaker 2: In a drill that drills and the screw the other direction.
Speaker 2: It's an Espa drill.
Speaker 1: What what is an Espa drill? It's I'll show you
Speaker 1: Espa drill wedges. It's like, this is a classic Espa
Speaker 1: drill right there?
Speaker 3: It went away, but yeah I saw it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an Espa drill.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they sometimes they lace up around your ankle. Is
Speaker 1: that like shoe?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a heeled sandal, kind of.
Speaker 1: Like a heeled sandal. Yeah, they're definitely a flat well,
Speaker 1: I mean there's also these these are flat versions of it.
Speaker 2: So it's a totally different thing.
Speaker 1: This is so, this is what the definition is. A
Speaker 1: flat shoe with a cloth upper, a rope sole, and
Speaker 1: sometimes lacing that ties around the ankle, so that as
Speaker 1: long as it has the rope bottom and a cloth top,
Speaker 1: the shape of the shoe can be anything.
Speaker 4: And then it sounds like what they would have worn
Speaker 4: on ships and stuff like rope bottom, cloth top.
Speaker 2: I kind of like them, are there, male? Can you
Speaker 2: get men's esp drills?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I'm going to get an s P A A
Speaker 1: U D R I L L EAT for men. Okay,
Speaker 1: are you looking them up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna get some pirate shoes exact.
Speaker 2: That's what they're called.
Speaker 5: From now on. Those are.
Speaker 1: Well, there are when you love shoes, there are just
Speaker 1: some shoes that like really give you the ick, you know,
Speaker 1: like like say, I mean crocs used to be one
Speaker 1: of them, for sure, before crocs became so mainstream and
Speaker 1: in your face that everybody wore them. But even crocs
Speaker 1: took me a really long time to get past. I
Speaker 1: was like, nope, never, you could never convince to wear crocs.
Speaker 1: But I used to feel that way about Birkenstocks.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh gross.
Speaker 1: No, Well guess what. The pandemic changed many things for me. Also,
Speaker 1: becoming a mother changed many things for me. I bought
Speaker 1: my first pair of Crocs during the pandemic. And I
Speaker 1: bought my first pair of Birkenstocks when Adler was little
Speaker 1: and we were going on a vacation and I was
Speaker 1: going to be doing a ton of walking and I
Speaker 1: need support. And everyone's like, oh, once you break in
Speaker 1: your pair of Birkenstocks, they're the You can spend fourteen
Speaker 1: hours walking around a city in them. So I did.
Speaker 1: I got my first pair of Birkenstocks that broke them
Speaker 1: in greatest, most comfortable shoe, never a shoe pain. If
Speaker 1: I'm in a pair of Birkenstocks, I can wear them
Speaker 1: for literally twelve hours going anywhere. I walked around Austria
Speaker 1: totally fine. Yesterday I put on a pair of shoes
Speaker 1: that are so icky. Do you know the shoes that
Speaker 1: have individual pockets for your toast?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, the yes rocks.
Speaker 2: Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I went to the gym yesterday. As you know,
Speaker 1: very healthy lifestyle I've picked up over the last couple
Speaker 1: of months have changed my eating habits, have started working out,
Speaker 1: I've it has helped me, not at all. I've only
Speaker 1: gained weight. I don't know how to explain it, but
Speaker 1: I feel better. I do feel better, so I'm keeping
Speaker 1: up with it. Anyway. Went to the gym yesterday to
Speaker 1: do a met con class, which is a hit workout,
Speaker 1: a high intensity interval training workout. You use weights and
Speaker 1: you do these ten exercises. You do them three you
Speaker 1: do them all ten of them. Then you start over
Speaker 1: and you do them again three times. You do each
Speaker 1: exercise for a minute. At my gym, the Poluva shoe
Speaker 1: people were there and they were like, for this class only,
Speaker 1: we are giving away free socks to anyone who would
Speaker 1: like to try the shoes, and you can just wear
Speaker 1: them for this class and then we'd love your honest feedback.
Speaker 1: Tell us what you think about them. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna try it. Why not do
Speaker 1: out there? Put on socks that have five daoles for
Speaker 1: each of my toes, and then I put toes in
Speaker 1: the shoes. They're freaking phenomenal.
Speaker 2: Not don't be that guy, bro.
Speaker 1: I will never ever wear them out to like run
Speaker 1: an errand, but I am thinking about buying some for weightlifting.
Speaker 1: I can't even believe I'm saying it. I got pictures. Look,
Speaker 1: I need to show you guys. First of all, the
Speaker 1: bottoms of them are so cute, like I have little
Speaker 1: panda feet.
Speaker 3: So just your Wiki feet page is about to get
Speaker 3: an update.
Speaker 1: And the bottom of these shoes, okay, and then look look,
Speaker 1: look look, and they feel cool. They feel great. So
Speaker 1: here's what I like about it.
Speaker 3: I'm so worried about each one of my toes. I
Speaker 3: don't know, just stuff.
Speaker 1: Here's what's great. And this is what they tried to
Speaker 1: tell me. And at first I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: understand what you're talking about. With normal shoes and the
Speaker 1: way our feet are in them and as thick as
Speaker 1: they are, and with the not having individual toe brackets,
Speaker 1: you don't actually like your toes don't really grip the ground.
Speaker 1: All of your toes don't really grip the ground. They're
Speaker 1: just kind of like in your shoes. With these shoes.
Speaker 1: Because all of my toes were housed in their own
Speaker 1: little home. When I would have to do something balancing,
Speaker 1: so say I had heavy weights in my hands and
Speaker 1: I was doing like a lunge that then where I
Speaker 1: lifted my back foot and so I'm balancing on my
Speaker 1: front foot. All of a sudden, all of my toes
Speaker 1: were gripping the ground, kind of the way they do
Speaker 1: when you're barefoot, like if you were doing yoga or
Speaker 1: pilates and you're able to feel yourself and you can
Speaker 1: like look down at your foot and realize, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to put I have all my weight in
Speaker 1: my pinky toe. I need to put more weight in
Speaker 1: the ball on my foot. You can feel all of
Speaker 1: that with these shoes on. They were really grippy, so
Speaker 1: I was still able to run around on the floor.
Speaker 1: They're hideous. They're the ugliest shoes I've ever seen in
Speaker 1: my entire life, and I could never be seen in them.
Speaker 1: But I am thinking about buying a pair.
Speaker 2: Would they in any way shape or form, uh like
Speaker 2: get in.
Speaker 4: Like screw up your man bun if you're wearing them.
Speaker 4: I'm curious, would they mess Would they mess with that?
Speaker 1: They would screw They'd screw up your macho ltte, your ice.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering about that, your cargo shorts and your man but.
Speaker 1: Your petuli is a little less.
Speaker 2: Potent, Okay, I'm just I'm just checking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you.
Speaker 3: Can still do the devil sticks though, right, that's that's.
Speaker 2: That's great, you can still do that. I love that anyway.
Speaker 1: I did think you guys would not would just not
Speaker 1: expect me to be an ugly shoe lady.
Speaker 2: No, we call those douche shoes at our house.
Speaker 1: I love that douche.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love it so much, the douche, the douche shoes,
Speaker 1: the douche shoe.
Speaker 2: So that's that's kind of what we call those. But hey,
Speaker 2: I think you talk to me album no, to each
Speaker 2: their own.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's no, it makes sense because if you
Speaker 4: if you then have the same conversation, but around hands,
Speaker 4: you're talking about the difference between wearing a pair of
Speaker 4: gloves and which makes it, which does make a big difference.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but no, but I just you know, it
Speaker 2: is what it.
Speaker 1: Is, and I do think because then I so I
Speaker 1: left and I was like, I'm going to look these
Speaker 1: shoes up. I'm going to see how much they are.
Speaker 1: And I was looking at them and I did. Then
Speaker 1: first of all, they're so so hideous on the website.
Speaker 1: I was like, I just wore them and they didn't
Speaker 1: look that hideous in person. On the website, I'm like,
Speaker 1: they this is it couldn't possibly be this ugly. And
Speaker 1: and I did stop myself from buying a pair because
Speaker 1: I thought, am I ever going to be able to
Speaker 1: get out of my own head when I'm wearing these
Speaker 1: or the whole time? Am I going to be like
Speaker 1: that person over there staring at my ugly feet? Shooes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't be able to do. If you're going
Speaker 4: to do it, you have to just jump in with No.
Speaker 1: You guys have single to.
Speaker 3: Talk you out of it.
Speaker 1: For weight lifting, Yeah no, No, it's good.
Speaker 4: I like you shouldn't define you or be stereotypical. I
Speaker 4: do put on your broken stocks, get into your super
Speaker 4: and go and buy the douche shoes.
Speaker 6: I think they'll be great. I don't see the problem.
Speaker 6: What's no, I'm good. I'm good even with the cute
Speaker 6: little bottom pand of feet. I'm not gonna not gonna
Speaker 6: do it now.
Speaker 3: I would not judge you for shaming me. I know
Speaker 3: I would not.
Speaker 4: I would not every time you put them on. He
Speaker 4: would unabashedly shame you the whole time.
Speaker 3: I'm just worried about the comfort. I just whenever I
Speaker 3: see like the idea of wrapping every one of my toes,
Speaker 3: like exactly, that's what I mean. You don't, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it seems like it wouldn't fit. Like it's just like
Speaker 3: my toes would be too fat for one of them.
Speaker 1: I just need it is. It is weird because my
Speaker 1: big toe was like a little too long for that
Speaker 1: size of shoe, but my pinky toe was nowhere near
Speaker 1: the end of it. So like if I went up
Speaker 1: a different size, my would have my big toe would
Speaker 1: have more room, but my pinky it could be cost
Speaker 1: a mold one for you, they told me when I
Speaker 1: said that, They said, but part of the reason your
Speaker 1: pinky toe doesn't take up enough room is because it's
Speaker 1: so used to being squished in your regular shoes.
Speaker 2: So they're pinky suffocating your petto.
Speaker 1: My pinky toe has shrunk itself in order to fit
Speaker 1: into the fabric of this society.
Speaker 3: And if I could, in order to appeal to people
Speaker 3: like you who call her douche shoes, if she likes
Speaker 3: the wrong shoes.
Speaker 1: My pinky could have its own identity.
Speaker 2: You do you it doesn't? You go out there and
Speaker 2: you bet the bottom shoes bag you can.
Speaker 3: That's how I look at it. Be in a douchebag.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's wearing what you want. Wear that hair bun.
Speaker 2: Of course, wear that hair bun.
Speaker 1: Neglect your feet. If you guys want your pinky toes
Speaker 1: to continue to shrink themselves to fit into society.
Speaker 3: I am I'm totally are you? Are you well? Because
Speaker 3: you know I don't have beach shoes. I hate anything
Speaker 3: that actually shows my feet. This is perfect. These are
Speaker 3: beachy shoes that I can wear. They're like sandals, but
Speaker 3: I don't have to Actually, you know, one has to
Speaker 3: look at my hobby feet.
Speaker 1: It's perfect. Will you update us when you get your
Speaker 1: male espadral? Yeah, okay, thank you. Welcome to Pod meets World.
Speaker 2: I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Will Fordell.
Speaker 1: If we've said it once, we've said it a million times.
Speaker 1: For the most part, we were pretty self absorbed as
Speaker 1: kids on the set of Boy Meets World. The sheer
Speaker 1: number of adult actors Will could have talked to about
Speaker 1: their time on MASH or the stories Bill could have
Speaker 1: told us about the making of the graduate, or the
Speaker 1: moments I could have at least remembered from the run
Speaker 1: of the show. They all seem like missed opportunities that
Speaker 1: now with a rewatch podcast three decades later, we can
Speaker 1: right those wrongs and not only shine a spotlight on
Speaker 1: some of these incredible talents that joined us on set,
Speaker 1: but we can learn more about them, even if a
Speaker 1: little late. And this week we get to right our
Speaker 1: wrongs once again. With a career spanning over fifty years,
Speaker 1: our guest this week has two hundred and eighty one
Speaker 1: acting credits to his name. You may have seen him
Speaker 1: steal scenes on the genius HBO show Deadwood, or appear
Speaker 1: in movies like Men in Black three and the adrenaline
Speaker 1: laced cult hit Crank, or on TV where he kicked
Speaker 1: off his career with appearances on shows like Different Strokes,
Speaker 1: Heart to Heart, Saint Elsewhere, and Webster. He's the absolute
Speaker 1: definition of a working actor, still acting and making a
Speaker 1: killing as one of the most prolific voice actors working today,
Speaker 1: with classics like Narudo, Gi Joe, Samurai Jack, Teen Titans,
Speaker 1: and Avatar The Last Airbender. On a long, long resume.
Speaker 5: He's awesome, He's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, Avatar the Last Mayorbender is one of those
Speaker 3: classes I've never watched.
Speaker 2: Everyone just in Gi Joe.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, yeah, But for some reason, and
Speaker 1: we don't know why, he's agreed to join us this
Speaker 1: week to talk about the one time he played a
Speaker 1: professor at Penbrook University dealing with a group of bright
Speaker 1: eyed freshmen on our Meager family sitcom for season six's
Speaker 1: Ain't College Great? This week we're talking to one of
Speaker 1: the most impressive guest stars we have ever had. Please
Speaker 1: welcome keone Young.
Speaker 5: Hello.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. We are honored
Speaker 1: that you would share some of your time with us
Speaker 1: to talk about your very prolific career. Just trying to
Speaker 1: get your first credit on IMDb takes several minutes. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you were raised in Hawaii. Both of your parents
Speaker 1: had immigrated to the United States. Your father Chinese.
Speaker 5: No, actually they didn't immigrant. They were born in Hawaii, Okaya.
Speaker 1: Tell us about your upbringing.
Speaker 5: I'm a third generation from My grandfather was from China.
Speaker 5: My grandmother and grand father on my mother's side was
Speaker 5: from Japan. But my parents were born in Honolulu, hoois Okay.
Speaker 1: And so what was their reaction when you decided to
Speaker 1: pursue a career in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 5: Well, I have to tell you that. You know, for
Speaker 5: Asians who emigrated to this country, they came as agricultural people.
Speaker 5: They came as peasants. My grandparents worked in the fields
Speaker 5: you know of in the sugarcane and pineapple fields, and
Speaker 5: that's where Hawaii became very commercially, very viable for the
Speaker 5: United States because they provided a lot of sugar for
Speaker 5: the country. So my grandparents were indentured workers to plantations.
Speaker 5: So my grandfather and grandmother wanted their my grandparents wanted
Speaker 5: their kids to be educated. So my my parents were
Speaker 5: were the first to go to school, finish high school
Speaker 5: and from from there where they fed kind of like
Speaker 5: this new workforce during the fifties through the Eisenhower years,
Speaker 5: the post war years. Their dream was for their kids
Speaker 5: to become doctors, lawyers, or even a dentist. Yeah, that
Speaker 5: was the lowest acceptable. Let you do that. That was acceptable.
Speaker 5: And you know, I just I was really a bad student,
Speaker 5: and you know, having kids myself, I realized that school.
Speaker 5: You know, my son told me I want to quit
Speaker 5: school at third grade and I said why and he said, well,
Speaker 5: school kills my creativity. And I couldn't argue that with him,
Speaker 5: because they did that for me, because I come from
Speaker 5: school in the sixties where everything was you know, you
Speaker 5: by wrote, there's no creativity at all. You know, you
Speaker 5: had to memorize your multiplication tables. You had to memorize
Speaker 5: all your science for me, you know, and I just
Speaker 5: I couldn't. My brain didn't function that way. And so
Speaker 5: I was a real bad student. So I was considered
Speaker 5: what we call in Japanese yogo day, which means dirty,
Speaker 5: you know, the filthy part of life, A person who
Speaker 5: is scum actually so and I mean scum, I mean
Speaker 5: the residue of the bottom side of society. And I
Speaker 5: found and because I was regarded as such, you know,
Speaker 5: my my friends, my friend's parents would say, oh, don't,
Speaker 5: don't play with him, don't, don't, you know, because he's
Speaker 5: he's no good. So I found a family in the theater.
Speaker 5: I wanted to work in theater. I wanted to actually
Speaker 5: I want to build sets. I wanted to design lights.
Speaker 5: I hung lights. I was I was a kid, I
Speaker 5: was like fourteen fifteen. I wasn't afraid to go up
Speaker 5: into the to the fly they call it, fly and
Speaker 5: hang lights. And I was mentored by some good technical people,
Speaker 5: you know, and as I was in. I was in
Speaker 5: the Humblu Community Theater. There is a long story. I
Speaker 5: hope you have the time we do so. In the
Speaker 5: Hullelo Community Community Theater, I'd be from up in the flies.
Speaker 5: I'd be watching actors and I thought I'd be thinking,
Speaker 5: they're not that good.
Speaker 1: I don't like what they're doing.
Speaker 5: Now It's not I didn't like. I just thought, well,
Speaker 5: I don't believe them, you know. Yeah, and I and
Speaker 5: of course a lot of the actors during that time,
Speaker 5: they didn't want to do small parts, you know. So
Speaker 5: directors would come up to me and go, hey, kid,
Speaker 5: we need a waiter in the scene to come in
Speaker 5: and take an order. Would you do it? So while
Speaker 5: moving the sets and you know, doing the lights, I'd go,
Speaker 5: I'd say okay, and I'd do it one line. And
Speaker 5: I did a lot of great plays. I was in
Speaker 5: the Death of a Salesman. I played the waiter and
Speaker 5: Death of a Salesman. Right, come in and I say,
Speaker 5: can I take your order, sir? One a cup of coabi?
Speaker 5: Thank you. But but what forced me then was I'd
Speaker 5: be able to watch a play like Arthur Miller's Death
Speaker 5: of a Salesman and and gain benefits from it. Realize,
Speaker 5: you know, school was important, but this is life drama
Speaker 5: and this, you know. I watched, you know, and then
Speaker 5: I would meet young people from New York who would say, hey,
Speaker 5: read Tennessee Williams read, Edward Alby read Chekhov. And I
Speaker 5: would go up into the They had this little library
Speaker 5: in the theater and i'd sit there and i'd work
Speaker 5: as a janitor there too, just to you know, pay
Speaker 5: for classes and whatever. And I'd read all these wonderful plays.
Speaker 5: I read out Edward Alby the Zoo Story, and I
Speaker 5: was like, wow, this is fantastic. So I got inspired
Speaker 5: to the theater. And also, if you know musicals, you
Speaker 5: know there's a lot of chorus parts where people would
Speaker 5: would sing and dance, and I was oftentimes they actors
Speaker 5: didn't want to be in these chorus parts, so they'd
Speaker 5: throw me in there because I had a bass voice.
Speaker 5: And it was really funny because at fourteen and fifteen,
Speaker 5: there was a young woman who was a year older
Speaker 5: than me, who was in sort of the same position,
Speaker 5: who kind of like befriended me and who showed me
Speaker 5: how kind theater people were to me. They didn't judge
Speaker 5: me if I didn't have the credentials like being a doctor,
Speaker 5: a lawyer of four point oh you know, yeah, student,
Speaker 5: and she we kind of like I did My Fair
Speaker 5: Lady with her, and it was really funny because you know,
Speaker 5: I spoke to local patois. But then I had to
Speaker 5: learn how to relearn how to speak standard stage speech,
Speaker 5: and you know, so I'm getting married in the morning,
Speaker 5: I'd have to learn cognitia yes, and did how to
Speaker 5: succeed in business without really trying. And she became she
Speaker 5: was like, you know, like just a not a really
Speaker 5: good We had these good looking women stars in there,
Speaker 5: you know, and they would always kind of like, oh,
Speaker 5: treat her like very patronizing to her. But she was
Speaker 5: a very beautiful person and very beautiful voice. So at eighteen,
Speaker 5: and I was seventeen, she said, I'm going to New
Speaker 5: York study become an actress, which kind of inspired me.
Speaker 5: I didn't have enough money to go to New York,
Speaker 5: so I had enough money to go to California. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I came to California. I had four hundred dollars in
Speaker 5: my pocket. And that lady was Bet Middler, by the way,
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, she became Bet Middler. So I said, Wow,
Speaker 5: that's nice. You know that it could happen to someone
Speaker 5: who I grew up with, that's amazing. And so that's
Speaker 5: the story. I came to LA. I had four hundred
Speaker 5: dollars in my pocket, two pairs of pants, two pairs
Speaker 5: of shirts, I mean a pair of shirts. And so.
Speaker 1: Where did you live? Did you have a roommate? Where?
Speaker 1: How did you find a place to stay?
Speaker 5: Well, I applied my mother, being the Asian mother, applied
Speaker 5: to several colleges, which all rejected me because my GPA.
Speaker 5: But Pasadena Playoffs took me amazing. It was a college
Speaker 5: of theater arts back in the sixties. It was very
Speaker 5: famous at that time. Gene Hackman went there, Dustin Hoffman
Speaker 5: went there. So they accepted me. I worked during the
Speaker 5: summer to pay for the fee, and I didn't know
Speaker 5: they needed the money really bade so they took a
Speaker 5: lot of people. Yeah, and I went to people like
Speaker 5: in my class were Stally Struthers from you know father
Speaker 5: that three company.
Speaker 2: Oh, No, Sally from from from all in the family.
Speaker 5: All in the family. Yeah. And I don't know if
Speaker 5: you know Ben Murphy, he was in Alias Smith and Jones.
Speaker 5: He was so anyway, So I studied there for two
Speaker 5: years and I was able to survive it and graduate,
Speaker 5: and I found out, oh, this is an interesting thing
Speaker 5: I was looking. I was. I worked during its school
Speaker 5: in the library, and I came across past students at
Speaker 5: East at Pastina playoffs, and I'd see names like Dustin Hoffman,
Speaker 5: Gene Hackman went there, and it inspired me. And then
Speaker 5: I saw this picture of this Asian guy because I
Speaker 5: thought I was the first Asian guy that went to
Speaker 5: Pasadena Playhouse, but there was another guy there and his
Speaker 5: name was Maco, and I found out he was nominated
Speaker 5: for Academy Award for San Pebbles. Consequently, he was nominated
Speaker 5: for a Tony even Somendheims Pacific Overtures, And so I said, wow,
Speaker 5: that's inspirational. So I've been having all these as a
Speaker 5: failure that I was as a person, you know, according
Speaker 5: to my status in life, I was fortunate to have
Speaker 5: all these experiences and these moments of like inspiration. So
Speaker 5: I said, wow, he got nominated for an Academy Award
Speaker 5: with Steve McQueen and Candy Bergen, and so I, you know,
Speaker 5: I was motivated. And then I came to La and
Speaker 5: I met him. I found him and he had founded
Speaker 5: a theater called the East West Players, and I had
Speaker 5: been a member there. And his philosophy was like, actors
Speaker 5: have to learn everything, not just because acting is like
Speaker 5: is not a defined science, you know, where one method
Speaker 5: is a correct answer to any every situation. He would say,
Speaker 5: actors have to learn the sciences that surround acting, which
Speaker 5: is dance, music. So he sent me to New York
Speaker 5: in seventy six, and he told me go to New
Speaker 5: York and study because LA is full of Hollywood actors.
Speaker 5: He said, they don't know nothing. So I went to
Speaker 5: New York. I studied, you know, method Gratowski. I studied ballet.
Speaker 5: I went to opera. I studied modern dance. You know,
Speaker 5: everything I studied, I learned through music theory. I learned
Speaker 5: to play an instrument. I learned about classical music, Western
Speaker 5: and Asian. I went to Berlitz. I studied languages. So
Speaker 5: he made he forced me to study, and he was
Speaker 5: He went to do Pacific overtures for some time at
Speaker 5: that time in seventy six, and he kind of funded me.
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, I mean I had to borrow two
Speaker 5: thousand from my screen actors. Guild Credit Union as well
Speaker 5: in order to live. So I have to thank the
Speaker 5: Credit Union for funding my education at that time. So
Speaker 5: I was on there on my own. I lived at
Speaker 5: the YMCA, and I've been studying ever since. Studying is
Speaker 5: just part of being an actor. I study today, I
Speaker 5: have classes today, I study.
Speaker 4: It is so incredible and Maco is I mean, forget
Speaker 4: being hugely important to me for my favorite show of
Speaker 4: all time, mash where he must have played eight or
Speaker 4: nine different characters, but Conan, his role in Conan the
Speaker 4: Barbarian and ConA the Destroyer, like helped to define me
Speaker 4: as a kid.
Speaker 5: They were sicking.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, because I mean I'm a fantasy nerd. And
Speaker 4: he was one of the first quote unquote wizards I
Speaker 4: ever saw, because he played a sorcerer and a wizard
Speaker 4: in Conan. And I think I was eight or nine
Speaker 4: when it came out and it was just awe inspiring.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was alleged.
Speaker 5: Can I tell you a little funny story about Conan,
Speaker 5: please please, Well what had happened was Arnold had hired
Speaker 5: One of his requirements was that the director had to
Speaker 5: hire all his buddies so Arnold could train with them.
Speaker 5: While he was there in Spain, and one director hired
Speaker 5: them to play all these warriors and muscle. Uh, these
Speaker 5: these bad guys. Well, one thing that they did was
Speaker 5: they developed every muscle in their body except one muscle,
Speaker 5: and that was the voice musk, the throat muscle. So
Speaker 5: they all came talking like this.
Speaker 2: The way it was John Millis, John Milias.
Speaker 5: So I had a meeting with John, you know, and
Speaker 5: John said I can't have this because they were all time,
Speaker 5: I will kill you. And John was this kind of
Speaker 5: like Asiano file who loved Kurosawa, you know, I don't
Speaker 5: know if you know. He did the Seventh Summarise and
Speaker 5: me fooney and all that. So John said, I'm going
Speaker 5: to play this movie the scene, this battle scene, and
Speaker 5: this is how I want the battle scene to sound. Well,
Speaker 5: Maco had introduced me to John and said, John, hire
Speaker 5: this kid. And so I said, John, you don't have
Speaker 5: to run. I used to watch that on my grandmother's lap.
Speaker 5: So I know the movie backwards and forwards. I know
Speaker 5: the sound that you want. So I recreated all these
Speaker 5: Samurai voices, you know, for John. So I replaced all
Speaker 5: these muscle men and made men out of them cool,
Speaker 5: and that was in Conan Barbarian and that kind of
Speaker 5: like was a trajectory for me and my If you've
Speaker 5: seen my IMDb, I've done a lot of voice work. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that was a trajectory for me to start working in
Speaker 5: voice because I said, Wow, I don't have to I
Speaker 5: can wear my pajamas exactly, get up and walk to
Speaker 5: I don't don't have to worry about, you know, having
Speaker 5: these two hour early calls before I hit the set.
Speaker 2: With the makeup makeup man.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so that's my con end story.
Speaker 1: Let's jump into your TV career a little bit. You
Speaker 1: began your career on shows like Room two twenty two
Speaker 1: and Kojak and movies like Private Benjamin. But I think
Speaker 1: most of our audience may have first seen you on
Speaker 1: different strokes, So I wanted to talk to you about
Speaker 1: that experience and but also the kinds of roles you
Speaker 1: were auditioning for as an Asian American.
Speaker 5: Well, let me just say this to you quite frankly,
Speaker 5: that Asian Americans are not seen as Americans. Of my
Speaker 5: roles has been as a foreigner, right, so, which was
Speaker 5: really difficult for for many of us because when we
Speaker 5: were growing up our parents said, no, you're American, don't
Speaker 5: speak our language. So you know, it was a kind
Speaker 5: of like a contradiction. Here I was in Hollywood, and
Speaker 5: I realized that shortly. I said, Wow, they only see
Speaker 5: me as a foreigner. But I speak English, and I
Speaker 5: can speak English better than a lot of English. So
Speaker 5: so different strokes. So I had to learn to adjust.
Speaker 5: I had to learn to learn other people's cultures, which
Speaker 5: I was fortunate because I was in Hawaiian and it
Speaker 5: was multicultural. You know. We grew up with Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese,
Speaker 5: Portuguese and so on, so I kind of learned the culture.
Speaker 5: So different strokes was interesting. You know. At night I
Speaker 5: would be doing Ibsen and Tennessee Williams, like I said, Albi,
Speaker 5: and then in the day I would be doing stuff
Speaker 5: like different strokes and Golden Girls and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: and I was kind of weighing what is most important
Speaker 5: to me, you know. I was doing regional theater. I
Speaker 5: went to Milwaukee, I went to New Hampshire. I was
Speaker 5: traveling around the country working for peanuts. And then I
Speaker 5: would do these TV shows and make incredible amounts of money,
Speaker 5: and I just could not understand it, the contributions. So
Speaker 5: what I found out though, was that when people were
Speaker 5: working in Hollywood, and particularly in TV, and particularly in
Speaker 5: three camera comedy, people were very anxious about their longevity
Speaker 5: and their life. Yeah, people always worried and scared, particularly
Speaker 5: the adults, whether they were going to get canceled, what
Speaker 5: their ratings were, where they were going to live, where
Speaker 5: their character was going to die, whether they were whether
Speaker 5: the writer, producer, runner of the show was happy with them,
Speaker 5: you know, because if they weren't, they might be written
Speaker 5: out of the show, or they not enough dialogue. So
Speaker 5: I said, well, it's good. I'm I can't you know,
Speaker 5: I'm I'm just a guest there, and I'll be a
Speaker 5: guest everywhere I go. I'll never be a part of
Speaker 5: this infrastructure, you know, I'll never be part of that society.
Speaker 5: Number One, they wouldn't allow us in unlike today you
Speaker 5: might see more of us because we fought for that.
Speaker 5: But I said, you know, I cannot rely on these people.
Speaker 5: I just have to do my own thing. So I
Speaker 5: was never worried about being fired, or being a band
Speaker 5: or being how would you say an outcast? I mean,
Speaker 5: I just did my thing. And I guess there was
Speaker 5: some smart enough people to realize, Yeah, that guy knows
Speaker 5: m he's always on time, he always knows his lines,
Speaker 5: he always hits his mart get them, yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: And I realized that I would spend more time being
Speaker 5: proficient and efficient as opposed to trying to get somebody
Speaker 5: to love me.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: So, I don't know, I really I really felt a contradiction.
Speaker 5: You know. I was happy doing this show, but as
Speaker 5: I watched the kids around me, I was kind of
Speaker 5: sad at the same time, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: And it was very sad because I felt no one's
Speaker 5: really educating the young people about the potential of their potential,
Speaker 5: you know. And consequently what happened was proved to be true.
Speaker 5: I loved working with the old timers. Conrad Bain was
Speaker 5: a wonderful gentleman who came from theater and he could
Speaker 5: understand me, and so we kind of bonded there and
Speaker 5: it was it was enjoyable. I'll say one other thing,
Speaker 5: like like Golden Girls. Golden Girls, everybody would warn me
Speaker 5: about be Arthur. Yeah, they say, oh, you got to
Speaker 5: watch out for her. She suffers the fools. Well, she
Speaker 5: doesn't but she does appreciate actors who are serious. And
Speaker 5: when I did the scene with her, it was it
Speaker 5: was delightful because she was she was good.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one of the best ever on television.
Speaker 5: I think, so. I mean she was. She was very good,
Speaker 5: very professional, and she was a fellow I don't want
Speaker 5: to say the word artists. I never refer to myself
Speaker 5: as one a fellow artisan, you know, very craft. She
Speaker 5: was respected the craft, and that's what I really loved
Speaker 5: about her.
Speaker 1: Well, you would go on to appear on literal classic
Speaker 1: TV shows like Taxi, The Jefferson's, Cheers, and Saint Elsewhere,
Speaker 1: alongside our pwell William Daniels. Yeah, did you ever feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, that sense you had as a kid that
Speaker 1: you weren't going to amount to much because you weren't
Speaker 1: the traditional good student. Did you ever feel like you
Speaker 1: were making it moving here from Hawaii and booking so
Speaker 1: much incredible work?
Speaker 5: No? No, wow, Because you know, my mother's friends, their
Speaker 5: sons were doctors and lawyers and very very wealthy, very established,
Speaker 5: and my mom was very impressed because they grew up
Speaker 5: in the Eisenhower days, they grew up the Rockefeller days,
Speaker 5: they grew up in the how to influence people, you know,
Speaker 5: with your magnanimity. They would love Donald Trump today because
Speaker 5: he was wealthy, and that would be the criteria. I'm me,
Speaker 5: I'm presuming, yeah, But I tell you one time I
Speaker 5: did I did. I did a movie The Week with
Speaker 5: Karen Allen and it was about the Challenger Shuttle. You
Speaker 5: remember the shuttle that carsonal So I played one of
Speaker 5: the astronauts, Elison on a Zuka who was on the
Speaker 5: flight at that time. And I went home and in
Speaker 5: Hawaii and finally my mom was kind of proud of me.
Speaker 5: And then but then she would go around to her
Speaker 5: friends going like, well, you know where he got his
Speaker 5: talent from?
Speaker 2: So taking credit, no praise, but taking credit.
Speaker 5: Wow, well you know because I was, you know, when
Speaker 5: high school, I was, you.
Speaker 1: Know, in a play in a play.
Speaker 5: Wow, So I really you know, it was it was
Speaker 5: kind of funny. But when my dad asked me how
Speaker 5: much money I made, and I made a lot of money,
Speaker 5: as you can imagine, he just he would not believe
Speaker 5: me because what I made in a week he made
Speaker 5: in a year. So they all kind of like in
Speaker 5: the final decades kind of like was proud, but they
Speaker 5: were proud because I was part of the family.
Speaker 4: You know, I have to ask about the about the
Speaker 4: the the movie of the week was Karen Allen, Krista mccaulloff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, and Barry Bostwick was in it, you know, man,
Speaker 5: Peter Boy was in it. It was it was a
Speaker 5: fun project. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into your time on Boy Meets World. Do
Speaker 1: you remember the audition for the role of Professor?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what was that like?
Speaker 5: It was like any other job. You know, I've going
Speaker 5: on auditions for all kinds of stuff. So if if
Speaker 5: you know the role, I mean it was just gibberish, right,
Speaker 5: and so I just didn't get gibberish.
Speaker 1: We talked about it when we recapped the episode, because
Speaker 1: you say it was just gibberish, as if doing gibberish
Speaker 1: is actually easy. It is not. We all like practiced
Speaker 1: on the day we recapture episode.
Speaker 2: And none of us could do it.
Speaker 1: None of us could even come close.
Speaker 3: It's one of those things that conceptually, like even if
Speaker 3: you wrote it, you'd be like, oh, that'll be funny,
Speaker 3: but to actually deliver it and sell it is really difficult.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, sound is as important as words. You know.
Speaker 5: That's what I was taught from my mentor Macco. He says,
Speaker 5: sound tells you the truth, and just you go back
Speaker 5: on this tape and listen to yourselves. How much sound
Speaker 5: you just said? Hmm, And it has subtext to it.
Speaker 5: So sound is very important. When we're singing opera, we're
Speaker 5: singing Italian and like, I don't know what it means, right,
Speaker 5: you know, when I'm singing German, I'm singing Ontie music
Speaker 5: and Schubert's under music to hold the kunsin vivel gauen Stunden.
Speaker 5: I don't know what the actual meaning is. I've since learned,
Speaker 5: but while I'm singing it, I'm kind of like thinking
Speaker 5: of the German you know, at that time, and you
Speaker 5: know the music of Bach and and sound is really important.
Speaker 5: So sound was not a problem with me because I
Speaker 5: grew up in a country or a state that sound.
Speaker 5: You know. I would hear the Filipinos speaking and the
Speaker 5: Koreans speaking, and their sounds were, for example, like Chinese
Speaker 5: would in a moment of expression, they would say ah yeah, uh,
Speaker 5: Koreans would uh. Koreans would say aigh. Philippines with withoud
Speaker 5: Filipino you would say, oh no, and in Japanese you
Speaker 5: would say, ah yah. They are all sounds, and there's
Speaker 5: sounds that relate to what you feel, deep feelings that
Speaker 5: you feel. So sound was not difficult for me. What
Speaker 5: was difficult was, you know, when you do three camera,
Speaker 5: I'm really talking a lot. I don't know why, because
Speaker 5: maybe because.
Speaker 1: That's wanted to talk to you.
Speaker 5: Usually I don't spend that much time explaining. But with
Speaker 5: other actors, I think you guys could understand it, really sure.
Speaker 5: But when you when you're working in three camera comedy
Speaker 5: and you know, I work with guys like Bud Yorkin
Speaker 5: and Norman Lear and those guys, and it was brutal,
Speaker 5: bruialty No, but it was brutal because Bud would come down,
Speaker 5: you know, after you have a run through and he'd
Speaker 5: watched run through, he'd come down with a martini with
Speaker 5: his guys and they would sit there and criticize. And
Speaker 5: you know, these guys were not they were not theater people.
Speaker 5: They didn't you know, they were just they wanted the laugh,
Speaker 5: they wanted the moment of response. They wanted results, well,
Speaker 5: results in terms of the scene, in terms of acting.
Speaker 5: They wanted results and Wow, I was not that. I
Speaker 5: was the type of actor where I bet, like you know,
Speaker 5: we loved Brando, you know, like searching and wondering and
Speaker 5: you know that was our kind of like hero when
Speaker 5: when I was a kid, and and James Dean and
Speaker 5: we try to find the moment of the scene, and
Speaker 5: they weren't interested in the moment of the scene. They
Speaker 5: wanted to laugh, you know. It was rhythm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I when you say the audition I just I
Speaker 5: mean the gibberish part wasn't the problem of it was.
Speaker 5: It was. It was the results and what the showrunner wanted.
Speaker 1: So when so you get the job, you come, you come.
Speaker 1: You're on set with us during that week. What do
Speaker 1: you remember that week about the rehearsal process taping, because,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, we had a showrunner that would come
Speaker 1: down after, you know, run through and give very long notes.
Speaker 1: What was your experience that week.
Speaker 5: Well, for the young people, I really liked them. They
Speaker 5: were very respectful to me, you know, and I liked
Speaker 5: all the young people.
Speaker 1: That would have been us.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean they were very supportive and friendly to me.
Speaker 5: They would bring up shows movies that they had seen
Speaker 5: me and you know, yeah, and we talked. The older
Speaker 5: people were always like nervous, particularly with the showrunner, you know,
Speaker 5: like is he upset? Is he mad? Did he think
Speaker 5: I was funny? And I was going, well, that's not
Speaker 5: a way to live a life for me anyway. And
Speaker 5: so I was like on my tiptoes, you know, like
Speaker 5: trying to like be careful, like just be careful that
Speaker 5: I would make it through the week at my check
Speaker 5: and then go on to do other things. I don't
Speaker 5: know if you talk to the woman that kind of
Speaker 5: like talk to me about this show, And I said,
Speaker 5: it was not a really great experience for me. So
Speaker 5: I don't know why they want to talk to me.
Speaker 1: We want to hear your experience good, bad, We want
Speaker 1: to hear it all.
Speaker 5: Well, like I said, the showrunner was you know, pretty alpha,
Speaker 5: pretty dominating.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I understood the necessity of it. I understood the
Speaker 5: importance of that. I mean I had worked in many
Speaker 5: many shows where like I said, I worked for Dorm
Speaker 5: Bud yorkin you know, and Bud was doing the Red
Speaker 5: Fox show and read banned him from the set and
Speaker 5: read and he said, but Red, I owned the show,
Speaker 5: and read, I don't care. I'm not coming to the
Speaker 5: set if you're there. And ABC had called up Bud
Speaker 5: York and had said, don't go down to the set, So,
Speaker 5: you know, you have that kind of conflict and contradiction,
Speaker 5: and I just I was like, not intimidated, but I
Speaker 5: didn't want to be around that kind of you know,
Speaker 5: and every three camera comedy I had seen it, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: and where the showrunner is the boss and there's no
Speaker 5: way to have a conversation about it. You know, you
Speaker 5: do what you're told or you're done. So my job
Speaker 5: was just doing what I was told. That was it.
Speaker 1: Yep, get in, do it like this and leave, take
Speaker 1: your shot, and then go do something that actually fills
Speaker 1: your soul.
Speaker 5: Well yeah, but I enjoyed the people on the show.
Speaker 5: There was one writer who can't remember his name, but
Speaker 5: he was very kind, and like I said, the young
Speaker 5: people were very fun to be with.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well good, I'm glad. I'm glad at least
Speaker 1: we were fun to be around.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I was done with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you got to leave. Did you ever watch
Speaker 1: the shows when they aired? Did you see your boy
Speaker 1: Meets were all episode when it aired on TV?
Speaker 5: Eventually, I only watched it recently, really told me to
Speaker 5: watch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you? What were your thoughts on it?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts watching it?
Speaker 5: I was terrible? You know how you think that we
Speaker 5: as actors, you know, you always look at yourself. I
Speaker 5: could have done that. I could. Of course, I should
Speaker 5: have did this. I should have done it. You know,
Speaker 5: I could have been better, which has always been my mantra.
Speaker 5: You know, I can be better. I should be better.
Speaker 5: You know. So such an actor thing.
Speaker 4: It's such an actor thing too, your Monday morning quarterback,
Speaker 4: your own performance all the time. And oh if I
Speaker 4: could just have given it a shot, if I could
Speaker 4: do it one more time, I would have done this.
Speaker 4: But the truth of the matter is, then if you
Speaker 4: watched it a third time, you'd want to change the.
Speaker 2: Thing you just did again.
Speaker 3: It would it would never be.
Speaker 2: Perfect, no matter what you think.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: We absolutely loved you in it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: Hysterical so funny, absolutely nailed it, laugh out loud funny,
Speaker 1: I mean, truly sparked an entire discussion for us about
Speaker 1: how much harder what you are doing, how much harder
Speaker 1: it is than it looks it looks like? How I
Speaker 1: mean you make it look seamless and effortless, and then
Speaker 1: all of us, with effort, could not come close to it.
Speaker 1: So truly, we also wanted to talk Deadwood with you,
Speaker 1: where you played mister wu. This was a magical show
Speaker 1: created by David Milch that even with all the acclaim
Speaker 1: it did get deserved even more. Do you consider this
Speaker 1: maybe the best thing you've ever done? And if not,
Speaker 1: what do you think is the best thing you've ever done?
Speaker 5: Well? Yes, I was very fortunate to meet David Milch.
Speaker 5: You know, oftentimes, like I said, people see us as foreigners.
Speaker 5: Well we are in a sense, at least my grandparents were,
Speaker 5: and I've always wanted the opportunity to show them, not
Speaker 5: to glorify them, but to show them that they had
Speaker 5: desires and passions too, And David Milt was open to that.
Speaker 5: It's kind of character that I've I am and I've
Speaker 5: always wanted to develop and he did too. So and
Speaker 5: he did that with every character. You know, he did
Speaker 5: that with every character. Find out get the essence of
Speaker 5: what that character represented, what his dreams were, what his
Speaker 5: failures were, and his inner dialogue, what we really thought
Speaker 5: about the situation. It was just grand You know, just
Speaker 5: to be on the set to work with as great actors.
Speaker 5: I don't know about you, but you know, like that
Speaker 5: old joke about when you look at a script you
Speaker 5: go to my line, my line both, well, we would
Speaker 5: like I would come down to the set just to
Speaker 5: watch people act. Wow, yeah, and just watch scene. Billy sorry,
Speaker 5: I can't think of his name. William Anderson, Billy Anderson.
Speaker 5: He was in that Bob Newhart show. He was one
Speaker 5: of the brothers. He played. Yeah. Uh, he played the
Speaker 5: mayor of Deadwood, and he is such a great actor.
Speaker 5: I would just go down to the set just to
Speaker 5: watch him act. Uh. And it was just wonderful. It
Speaker 5: was like being in school, you know, like being like
Speaker 5: an actors studio where you go and watch somebody scene
Speaker 5: and you'd learn from that, and Milts would come down
Speaker 5: and explain to you what the scene was about and
Speaker 5: how stupid you were, and you, you don't know. The
Speaker 5: great feeling it is when somebody as smart as David
Speaker 5: Milt comes up to you and go, that was stupid,
Speaker 5: you know, And he goes, you know what I'm trying
Speaker 5: to say, right, you know what I mean? Right? And
Speaker 5: I go, yeah, I know what you mean. David, and
Speaker 5: then we would go back and work it out. And
Speaker 5: David was the kind of guy. He was great. I mean,
Speaker 5: he feared nobody. You know, he'd go, we'd be on
Speaker 5: season episode three and he go, he'd watch episode three
Speaker 5: the scene and go, you know that scene in episode one,
Speaker 5: I want to rewrite it. He took the producers and
Speaker 5: he go, I think that I could make that scene better.
Speaker 5: And they go, David, we have to rehire all those actors,
Speaker 5: build a set, and he goes, I don't care to
Speaker 5: do it because it will make me better. And I
Speaker 5: think that's why HBO kind of like canceled it, because
Speaker 5: it was it was an expensive show because of how
Speaker 5: David wanted to do this show, and that's when TV
Speaker 5: can be. It's yeah, I think, I think, I think,
Speaker 5: you know, but.
Speaker 2: I mean watching it was it was. I remember the
Speaker 2: first time, the first couple episodes, it hit me.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, this is this is how Shakespeare
Speaker 4: would do a Western.
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was that level.
Speaker 4: It was literally Shakespearean with the characters and there, I
Speaker 4: mean there. It was amazing it what it did for television,
Speaker 4: but also for the Western, where it was just such
Speaker 4: on a different level all the way around.
Speaker 2: It was truly just one of the most magical things
Speaker 2: that I think has ever been on television.
Speaker 4: And I know people would think that's that's a bold statement,
Speaker 4: but I truly think it's deserving of that statement. It
Speaker 4: is was magical. It really was lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 4: It was all the ridiculous platitudes you hear about something
Speaker 4: wonderful that was fleeting was Deadwood.
Speaker 2: It was incredible.
Speaker 5: Well, let me ask you this question, then, do you
Speaker 5: think that every Western since Deadwood on TV? Successful successful
Speaker 5: Western has been influenced by Deadwood?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, absolutely? Do you think not? I do. I read
Speaker 5: an article recently that said every Western that has followed
Speaker 5: dead Deadwood has something to be thankful for from.
Speaker 1: In some way Deadwood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 5: The struggle that we had, the challenge that we had
Speaker 5: as actors was great because where in TV does a
Speaker 5: challenge you to to surpass your present state and become
Speaker 5: something greater. Where where in TV does that? You know?
Speaker 5: And I find that that has carried me in my career.
Speaker 5: I just recently did a a series with Jessica Bielle
Speaker 5: in New York and it was one of the first
Speaker 5: times I felt as an actor that I was complete,
Speaker 5: that I had my own identity, that my identity was
Speaker 5: not fined for you by the writer or the director,
Speaker 5: or the or the producer, but that I had felt
Speaker 5: that I had my own identity as the character, and
Speaker 5: I had established it. And I guess that's what Deadwood
Speaker 5: has allowed me to do, was to come onto every
Speaker 5: project to be able to say, Okay, let me give
Speaker 5: a dimension to this that is not just two dimensional
Speaker 5: or four dimensional. Let me be more abstract, let me
Speaker 5: let me uncover the character, and consequently, wow, that seems
Speaker 5: to work for me. Which what I learned from Deadwood
Speaker 5: that you're much more than the printed page is two dimensional? Right?
Speaker 5: You read it on the page, You read on the
Speaker 5: page eight times, and you think, oh, what can make
Speaker 5: this work? Why? Right? Right? And you find it? And
Speaker 5: so that pushed by David Mills, is find the character.
Speaker 5: Don't be stupid, don't take the least common denominator, take
Speaker 5: the highest common denominate, yes on the other extra spectrum
Speaker 5: and challenge you as an actor. And I guess that's
Speaker 5: what Didwood did. And I was very fortunate. I'm so
Speaker 5: fortunate that I was to meet somebody like David Milch.
Speaker 1: I won't talk about all the video games that you
Speaker 1: have worked on because those companies have to pay your
Speaker 1: union first. But in animated product Jax, you voiced Naruto Avatar,
Speaker 1: The Last Airbender, High High, Puffy on the Yumi Batman,
Speaker 1: and now Gremlin's The Secrets of Maguai. All of these
Speaker 1: projects have had huge spikes in popularity over the past
Speaker 1: few years. Are you surprised by the mainstreaming of anime
Speaker 1: and animated shows?
Speaker 5: No, let me tell you what I'm surprised about. That
Speaker 5: is young people's devotion to it. Yeah, and I wish
Speaker 5: it wasn't so much so, because they're obviously looking for
Speaker 5: an outlet that relieves them from anxiety and pressures. And
Speaker 5: I go to all these I'm invited to a lot
Speaker 5: of comic cons Yeah, and I see young people just uh,
Speaker 5: throwing themselves into that kind of like a cult of anime,
Speaker 5: understanding what that anime means. In Japan, it's the same thing,
Speaker 5: you know, you know in Japan. You know, Japan is
Speaker 5: a very controlled society in terms of behavior and in
Speaker 5: terms of how you relate to each other, in terms
Speaker 5: of not only personal relationship, but in class relationship. There's
Speaker 5: forms of language that you must speak if you're talking
Speaker 5: to someone older than you, superior to you. And there's
Speaker 5: a way to talk to somebody who's beneath you. In Japanese,
Speaker 5: you know, to cuss somebody out, there's no real cuss words.
Speaker 5: Is the word you and the different forms of you.
Speaker 5: So I can have a formal way of saying you,
Speaker 5: or I can have an informal way, and the way
Speaker 5: you use it to somebody determines your really, So what
Speaker 5: I'm trying to say is Japan has very control society
Speaker 5: and they let their emotions out by watching all this
Speaker 5: man manga and you know, you say, wow, they have
Speaker 5: so much violence in their things. Well yeah, but that's
Speaker 5: the one way what they use in order not to
Speaker 5: commit violence. Yeah, but in America, kids are really like
Speaker 5: put so much equity in these things. And it doesn't
Speaker 5: bother me, but I just wish I could sit down
Speaker 5: with them and say, oh, hey, you know why you're
Speaker 5: doing this right? Yeah, you know, you know why. And
Speaker 5: Star Wars has been becoming a cult as well, you know,
Speaker 5: and it's fine, you should love these things, but you
Speaker 5: should love them in terms of how that relates to
Speaker 5: your life, that what you want to do with your
Speaker 5: life and what you want how you want to be
Speaker 5: progressive to progress. So when you say, am I surprised, No,
Speaker 5: I'm not surprised because we live in a cult kind
Speaker 5: of world right now. Well, we're not thinking for ourselves,
Speaker 5: you know, we're not looking at factual evidence and heroes.
Speaker 5: Heroes are not going to save our day for us ourselves.
Speaker 5: And so it really bothers me that about this kind
Speaker 5: of implosion of anime and manga. And you know, I mean,
Speaker 5: it's it's great. We have cartoons. There's some really great
Speaker 5: you know, like I don't know if you know the
Speaker 5: history of like comics like Will Eisner who was uh,
Speaker 5: who was a great great UH novelist, comic book novelist.
Speaker 5: He wrote about the strugg of the Jews in the
Speaker 5: Lower East Side during the Depression and uh, And that's
Speaker 5: what I find kind of missing sometimes.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, we talked we talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: this with Stephen Park when he was on the podcast.
Speaker 1: But obviously you have witnessed a total evolution of opportunities
Speaker 1: for Asian actors in Hollywood. What are your feelings when
Speaker 1: you see actors like Stephen Youn or Henry Golding starring
Speaker 1: in massive movies without any signifying mark about their race.
Speaker 5: It's good, it's good. But you know in plays I've
Speaker 5: done Gibson, I've done Chekhov, you know, I've done a
Speaker 5: lot of and I think I laid that found is
Speaker 5: my generation that kind of laid the foundation for them
Speaker 5: thinking where they could go.
Speaker 1: Yes, sure, for sure.
Speaker 5: You know the generation before me, which was the first
Speaker 5: generation that was with like people like Richard lou Kee Luke,
Speaker 5: that generation. I'm the second generation. They were kind of
Speaker 5: like immigrants and kind of fulfilling the role of being
Speaker 5: the Asian you know, the Fu Manchu or the Asian
Speaker 5: stereotype for what America needed in terms of like a
Speaker 5: growing as a as a first world They needed to
Speaker 5: picture the enemy properly for people, you know. And so
Speaker 5: we came up and said, hey, you know, we're Americans too,
Speaker 5: So we wanted so and theater was our outlet because
Speaker 5: like I said, I think I said of the characters
Speaker 5: I played in Foreigners, and to see that change now
Speaker 5: is very is very good. It's what we've worked for
Speaker 5: as a community of Asian American performers in this country.
Speaker 5: Don't forget that we got reparations for when Japanese Americans
Speaker 5: were interned during the war. We got reparations from the
Speaker 5: an apology from Ronald Reagan. So that l Mark was
Speaker 5: very important for us because it showed, hey, we are
Speaker 5: humans too, which consequently transferring itself to a lot of writers, novelists.
Speaker 5: You know who wrote Crazy Rich Asians and who wrote
Speaker 5: all these books and Maxine Hank Kingston and Amy Tanned
Speaker 5: they wrote all these novels and then movies were made
Speaker 5: from them, which is really good. But I just have
Speaker 5: one question, one point of view that you might not
Speaker 5: agree with me, and I'm sure it will offend a
Speaker 5: lot of people that Asian men are still shown uh
Speaker 5: yeh in a non positive light. It could be shown
Speaker 5: in a more positive light. And you mentioned these guys
Speaker 5: like Steve and you and Harry Golden, which is good?
Speaker 5: Which is which is which? Which is I really admire.
Speaker 5: But we're still shown as subhumans. We're really shown. We're
Speaker 5: still shown as effeminate, submissive, passive, and in my community,
Speaker 5: we're not. We're not and that's what's not being shown.
Speaker 5: And so our culture has to be brought out into
Speaker 5: the open so people can see yeah, you know, and
Speaker 5: and then some people do some people do, you know,
Speaker 5: some people do. Uh. I remember when I was young,
Speaker 5: people would say to me, you guys eat raw fish.
Speaker 5: Now everybody eats raw yeah, right exactly, But it's what
Speaker 5: kind of raw fish? Now? That's important?
Speaker 3: Right right?
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's not just some fancy exotic kind
Speaker 5: of thing. But it's the you know, it's it's the
Speaker 5: real versus the fake. And that is always our struggle
Speaker 5: as human beings on this earth is always what is real?
Speaker 5: What is fake?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And I subscribe that Asian American men have a place
Speaker 5: in this, in our story of America.
Speaker 1: You know, yes, I really appreciate you sharing your POV.
Speaker 1: I know you started it by saying there are going
Speaker 1: to be some people who may disagree or who find
Speaker 1: it offensive, but you know, truly being willing to speak
Speaker 1: out and say your experience. You have a POV that
Speaker 1: certainly the three other people on this zoom with you
Speaker 1: don't have. We can't we can't speak from your POV.
Speaker 1: And so for you being willing to say it and
Speaker 1: to share your honesty with us, Like you said, your
Speaker 1: generation is the generation that helped propel and make these changes,
Speaker 1: but there are still more strides that need to be
Speaker 1: taken and that that need to happen. And so thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing that thought with us and your perspective
Speaker 1: with us.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can tell you one thing. Uh you look
Speaker 5: at what the women's movement has done. Mhmm. You can
Speaker 5: get kicked off for show. Now if you sexually harass somebody, right,
Speaker 5: you can get your career can be destroyed if you
Speaker 5: if you engage in those activities. Well, in my time,
Speaker 5: those activities were common.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: You had to expect it if you wanted to be
Speaker 5: an actress, if you wanted to be successful, not only
Speaker 5: an actress, as actress too, you have to succumb to it.
Speaker 5: You'd have to accept this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just part of the job.
Speaker 5: Yeah, part of the gig. Right, So now that's changed.
Speaker 5: But can you stop with somebody from harassing you racially?
Speaker 1: Hm hmmm No, yeah, not yet.
Speaker 5: Not yet. So I mean, uh, maybe my my look
Speaker 5: at life is skewed, skewed, you know, twisted, and it
Speaker 5: is it is because going back to when I was
Speaker 5: a kid, I was not accepted by the general public.
Speaker 5: So my view of life is kind of skewed. Skewed. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: So I I ask you for your understanding and forgiveness
Speaker 5: for having that kind of like view as a Yogo
Speaker 5: d h h. But I am one h but because
Speaker 5: of who I am, because of the race I am,
Speaker 5: because of the class I am, I have been twisted,
Speaker 5: so you must forgive my twisted view.
Speaker 1: Well, Keoni, we have been so honored to have you
Speaker 1: as a part of the Boy Meets World legacy, an
Speaker 1: actor with almost three hundred credits to his name, so
Speaker 1: many memorable roles and projects. We really thank you very
Speaker 1: much for spending your time and coming on the podcast
Speaker 1: and talking with us. It was we thank you a real.
Speaker 2: Joy, amazing.
Speaker 5: Well, I am honored as well. I know about your
Speaker 5: careers and I am very honored as well to be
Speaker 5: accepted by you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending your time with us. We really
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. And I hope it's not the last time.
Speaker 2: Hope.
Speaker 1: I hope our paths cross again. I mean, who would
Speaker 1: have predicted that almost thirty years later, our paths would
Speaker 1: cross here on this podcast, So I hope it's not
Speaker 1: the last time. Thank you so much, Thank you very much.
Speaker 5: I am honored, have a wonderful day. Bye bye.
Speaker 1: What a great conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, his career is staggering, the things that he's done.
Speaker 4: It's just and the idea that even with that career,
Speaker 4: he kind of it seems like he kind of still
Speaker 4: looks at himself as almost a failure, which is straight.
Speaker 3: And you know what, he's just a journeyman. You know,
Speaker 3: he's just like like when he calls himself an artisan
Speaker 3: and was like, right, because you're never done, like you're
Speaker 3: always this is about process, this is about acting, this
Speaker 3: is about learning, like he still wants to learn new
Speaker 3: skills and new things. That's so cool, man, What a great, healthy,
Speaker 3: artistic perspective. You know, I'm sure it's led to a
Speaker 3: lot of periods of you know, difficulty and feeling bad
Speaker 3: about himself, but ultimately like he's succeeded because he it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what project he's in, he's always going to
Speaker 3: be doing it, and he's always doing it one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I also.
Speaker 4: At a comic con and you know, he he talks
Speaker 4: about how he you know, he's a little disturbed by
Speaker 4: the cult like uh, you know, stigma that that surrounds
Speaker 4: anime and things like that. But I can also tell
Speaker 4: you just from experience of watching him, he's so good
Speaker 4: with his fans. I mean, it's one of those things
Speaker 4: where he's still just so open with everybody that was
Speaker 4: waiting in line. Again, he had a line, you know
Speaker 4: that that's sitting there waiting to talk to him. And
Speaker 4: so yeah, he might have that internally and he might
Speaker 4: talk about that, but if you're a fan and you
Speaker 4: go up to him, he's still going to show you
Speaker 4: just the utmost respect and and you're gonna have a
Speaker 4: great experience when you when you see him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but like will, like you said it,
Speaker 1: it uh the the impact his families and and and
Speaker 1: the peers of his parents, that their opinion of him
Speaker 1: is still just so forefront of his mind that it
Speaker 1: feels like there's a it makes me emotional to think about, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, we look at him and his career and
Speaker 1: we're like awe struck by all of like, Wow, look
Speaker 1: what you've been able to do, Look what you've been
Speaker 1: able to accomplish. And you can tell that for him,
Speaker 1: he it does. It's it's I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: feel if I don't know, it makes me emotional.
Speaker 3: It's interesting like me, you know, cause I've talked about
Speaker 3: being friends with Larry Pressman, who's an older actor, and
Speaker 3: I remember one of the first times talking to him
Speaker 3: about people he knew, like great actors who were always
Speaker 3: ashamed that they were an actor, and that does seem
Speaker 3: like a generational thing, like especially for certain guys of
Speaker 3: certain age, like you know that that were acting in
Speaker 3: like the fifties or sixties, it felt like a cheap career,
Speaker 3: like it felt like you were sort of avoiding a
Speaker 3: real job by being an actor and by just being
Speaker 3: a pretty face or you know, like there was an
Speaker 3: inscution And I remember hearing him say that and being like,
Speaker 3: oh wow, Like I think I had some of that too,
Speaker 3: Like I think I was often like, well, I don't
Speaker 3: want to just be an actor, like it just it's
Speaker 3: something right and it's like, wait a minute, this is
Speaker 3: an amazing thing, like that skill and the ability to
Speaker 3: do it and like embrace it. So yeah, when I
Speaker 3: heard him say that, I was like, oh, yeah, you're
Speaker 3: never going to let that go that you didn't you know,
Speaker 3: become a doctor or whatever, but in reality what you
Speaker 3: did accomplish is insane. Yeah, Like it's so much like, yeah,
Speaker 3: so much more rare. But I do think that nowadays
Speaker 3: a lot of people, especially people who were listening to
Speaker 3: something like this podcast, you think of actors or acting
Speaker 3: as like automatically just a cool job. I think for
Speaker 3: other generations and other contexts, it's not. It's actually like
Speaker 3: kind of like being a Carney vaudeville like that's like this,
Speaker 3: you know, the superficial job, this like weird thing that
Speaker 3: you do that maybe you'll get lucky, but it's not
Speaker 3: a real person's job.
Speaker 2: As we just lost all of our carneye fans.
Speaker 3: Sney, I think being a Carney is awesome.
Speaker 1: I know when we go on our live show and
Speaker 1: we go on our live show tours, I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I don't remember where we were, but there was some
Speaker 1: some green room that we had that was like really
Speaker 1: not anything pleasurable, and I was like, oh man, this
Speaker 1: green room kind of makes me sad that like this
Speaker 1: is where we are, and writers like, I love it.
Speaker 1: This is what we're doing.
Speaker 3: We're into some awful, disgusting room and then we make
Speaker 3: a show.
Speaker 1: Out we do the ND.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: That's a cool that's a cool way of thinking about it,
Speaker 1: and it has changed the way I feel when I
Speaker 1: walk into a really musty green.
Speaker 3: I kind of like it. I like they're weird and
Speaker 3: like you got these like do you remember that one
Speaker 3: time I couldn't find the coffee machine. It took like
Speaker 3: twenty minutes. It was like that whole other warehouse room.
Speaker 3: We don't know what it's for.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't want people to think we're we're
Speaker 1: of under selling what this I mean. I'm truly talking
Speaker 1: about the dankest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3: A lot of backstages they don't care. It's that's the
Speaker 3: point is that you care about. You take care of
Speaker 3: the stage, you take care of the house, the front house,
Speaker 3: but backstage is like it's just terrible.
Speaker 1: It's just for the some some you know, bugs and
Speaker 1: very very very bare bones. Feels like maybe an unclean
Speaker 1: hospital space. Uh and so.
Speaker 2: Wait to do it again. Can't wait and do it again,
Speaker 2: Carni Folk.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Podmeets World.
Speaker 1: As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod meets
Speaker 1: World Show. You can send us your messages, you can
Speaker 1: send us your thoughts, your emails. Podmeets Worldshow at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com and we've got merch.
Speaker 2: Step Bridup, buy some merch. Guess you wait, step bradup.
Speaker 1: Podmeetsworldshow dot com. We love you all, pod dismissed.
Speaker 3: Podmeets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel,
Speaker 3: Wilfridell and Ryder Straw Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy
Speaker 3: Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,
Speaker 3: Tarasubash producer, Maddie Moore engineer and Boy meets World Superman
Speaker 3: Easton out Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon.
Speaker 3: Follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show, or email
Speaker 3: us at Podmeets World Show at gmail dot com