WEBVTT - OTB Sports: Jon Miller 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.880 I told these guys, you know, get that out of there. 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.360 But I made the inadvertent comment of shoot the the item, 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.600 so the director immediately panned over and shot it, and 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.120 you get rid of it, shoot it, said no, no, no no, no, 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:19.160 get off that shot. And unfortunately, once it appears on television, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:29.360 it lives on Google and YouTube and places forever. Hi. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.559 I'm John Miller, President of Programming for NBC Sports, and 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:43.240 I can't wait to be on Off the Beat. Hello everybody, 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.720 and thanks for joining us here today on another episode 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.000 of Off the Beat Sports. As always, I am your 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:57.240 host Brian Baumgartner. Today one of my oldest friends at NBC. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.000 I am bringing on the person who has currently been 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.080 at NBC the longest forty four years, most of which 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:11.160 at NBC Sports, John Miller, one of the most influential 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:16.240 voices in sports and of course at NBC, and one 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.839 of the only people in the world who can say 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.840 that they have literally changed sports television. I mean, have 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.800 you ever turned on the National Dog Show on Thanksgiving? 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.520 John invented that? Have you ever watched the Winter Classic 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.919 from the NHL? Well, John invented that are you happy 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.640 that the US Open coverage was back on NBC. Have 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.080 you ever watched the American Century Championships from Lake Tahoe. Well, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:48.520 John invented that to one man, and he's here today now. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.840 When I saw John a couple of weeks ago in 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.680 Lake Tahoe, I just knew that I had to bring 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.520 him onto the podcast. In fact, I started doing background 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.600 research with some of the golf analysts there at NBC. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.560 I wanted to do my research because I wanted John 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.360 to be able to effectively tell his story. You know, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:15.880 there is truly a little more inspiring to me than 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.080 hearing the journeys of people who have risen to greatness 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.800 in their field. So sit back, take a listen. I 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.400 am very happy to introduce to every one of you 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:33.400 my good friend and someone I can honestly say that 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:42.280 I admire in the world of entertainment, John Miller. Bubble 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:50.000 and Squeak. I love Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.320 Cookie at every month left over from the nub before. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:09.919 Hi John, Hi Brian, how are you. I'm so good. Oh, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.600 I'm so happy that you're here. You don't know this, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.799 but before you agreed to do this, almost inadvertently had 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.960 a background research session on you with Steve Sands one 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.919 day after the tournament. Um, John and I were just 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.440 in Like Tahoe for the American Century Championship, one of 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.040 his many babies, which we're going to talk about in 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.960 a little bit. Uh, my favorite week of the year. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.120 How was the week for you? First off? It was 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.120 Now that I'm a little more than a week away 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.640 from it, Brian, it it all starts to sink in 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:47.680 when you're in there and you're living in the moment, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.440 you kind of lose sight of all the things that 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.400 are happening. And because the team does such a good job, 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.040 you know, led by Gary Quinn and David Muller, you 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.960 it's all become so seamless. But I tell a few moments, 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.560 you know, on the way home or the day after, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.880 and think about everything and realize just how far we've come. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:13.520 This was far and away our best event ever on 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:18.360 a whole bunch of different metrics. Um. You know, this 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.520 is our thirty third year and we had over sixty 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.480 seven thousand people to show up in Lake Tahoe over 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:31.359 four days. UM. By way of comparison, for those people 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.440 who remember when we started this event, this was gonna 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.360 be a one and done, and we lost a lot 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.560 of money our first year, and we had thirty people 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.920 people over the four days we let people in for 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.279 free Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and we charged I think ten 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.720 dollars for the weekend. And we were so excited, we 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.440 were so proud of ourselves that we got people. And 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.200 now you know, thirty three years later, with this has 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.080 become But we also got the highest ratings on television 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.440 that we've gotten since two thousand nine. But the other 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:11.000 thing is the social media reach was multiple billions with 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.880 a B. We've never had that before either. And that's 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.680 due in large part to people like you and Steph 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.480 Curry and Justin and and Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelsey 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.080 all contributing in such a big way, but then turning 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.440 around and posting stuff on social media sites that get 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.800 picked up that. But you know, to answer your question, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.960 it was it was a great week. Yeah, it certainly was. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.560 I want to talk some more about that, and it's 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.760 it's inception and its history and a little bit. I 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.719 wanted to start by going back in your history. I mean, 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.200 I feel like you're only like fifty two years old, 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.000 but you've been at NBC now for what forty four years? 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.760 I mean, it feels like your entire life in uh 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.240 in October, it will be forty five years. I started 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.440 when I was in sixth grade, but now that's that's 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:05.320 just what i've uhm, it'll be forty It'll be forty 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.520 five years. And I've really had this front row seat 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:14.400 to watch the business, you know, change and evolve and whatnot. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.000 So it's been a lot of fun. You know, when 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.039 I first started with NBC, it was just NBC, CBS 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.919 and ABC. You know, the people who I work with 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:23.640 love to say that I was around when it was 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.479 just black and white television, not quite but close. But 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.120 there was no cable, there was no satellite. There was 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.039 certainly nothing like streaming or any of the things that 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.520 we have now. But you know, you get to watch 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.039 all this stuff unfold and have a front row seat 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.440 for it, and it's and it's fun. And what it 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.200 what you learned is that content is still the most 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.800 important thing, and if you have a good product, people 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.680 will find it and watch it and and do all that. 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.520 So that, to me is is a lot of fun. Yeah, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.720 you grew up in Bethesda, is that right? Bethesda, Maryland? 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.040 Bethesda Maryland. My my mom was originally from Washington, d C. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.200 When my dad was from New York who moved down 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.440 to the d C area in the mid fifties and 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.560 and they got married in fifty five. And I have 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.600 a brother and a sister. But that's where our family 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:14.960 was from. So growing up in the d C area 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.640 my whole life until I went to college. Were you 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:23.520 interested in sports? Were you interested in entertainment or both? Oh? Yeah, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.040 I was. I was a sports junkie as a kid. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.920 You know, I I followed, you know, at that time, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.800 I followed the Washington Redskins. The Washington Senators were my 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.320 baseball team that got taken away from me when I 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.480 was thirteen years old and was at that final game 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.600 at RFK Stadium where we stormed the field and got 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.360 tear gassed and the Senators lost in a forfeit. We 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.920 didn't have a hockey team, the Capitals didn't come until 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.680 much later, um, and we didn't really have a basketball 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.400 team to the Washington Wizards were the Baltimore Bullets. But 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.400 I wasn't really in the basketball. The sport I actually 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.560 played a lot as a kid was tennis, and I 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.120 was at this junkie and spent a lot of time, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.520 you know, following pro tennis, never really followed golf much 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.400 at all until I met my wife, and her father 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.560 and her brother kind of turned me onto golf and 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.720 basically said, if you're going to ever succeed in business, 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.680 you better learn this game. So but that's I was 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.440 a big sports junkie as a kid growing up. Yeah, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.240 but never, I'll be honestly, Brian, I never thought that 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.040 my career would lead me to this. I mean it 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.480 was This has been such a great ride. It's been 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.920 so much fun. You you mentioned this. I I did 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.040 not know this story until some some research was done. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.480 You and your little brother, you were taken away by 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.280 security after storming the field. You just mentioned that how 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.440 old were you at this point? So this is nineteen 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.360 seventy one, So I was like thirteen or fourteen years 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.600 old and my little brother was ten. And it was 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.400 the last Senators home game against the Yankees, and the 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.160 Senators had this great big star named Frank Howard who 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.760 was known as the Washington Monument. He was six ft 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.839 eight and he waved a baseball bat like a toothpick. 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.360 Senators were down I think three to two in the 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.599 bottom of the seventh or whatever, and they groove to 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.680 pitch to Howard. He hits a three run home run 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.600 and the place goes crazy and we stormed the field, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.040 and you know, the game never finished, and they had 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.000 police come out on horseback and herded us all to 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.560 the right field bullpen and held us all there. And 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.640 there was no subway or anything like that. We lost 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.000 the guys who we were with, So you know, I 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.280 didn't get home until two o'clock in the morning. Needless 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.760 to say, my dad was not too happy with me 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.199 because I was responsible for my little brother. But that 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:53.080 was that was a very fond memory. Yeah, you head 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:58.839 off to Ohio and go to Miami University and your 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.600 degree is a business at illustration. When does your interest 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.320 start turning to entertainment to media? So when I was 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.480 in college, I went to Miami. I did all four 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.080 years there and I um. I was involved my junior 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.040 and senior year, well senior year really with a program 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.320 that was an advertising and marketing based program that really 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.200 opened up my eyes to the marketing and advertising world. 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.880 We handled two different brands. The first semester we worked 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.520 on boarding foods or the Cromorra Brand, and the second 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.079 semester we worked for Wendy's. And I was really fascinated 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.560 with the advertising and marketing world, and when I got 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.800 out of college, I knew I wanted to come back East. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.760 I had a cousin at the time who was representing 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:47.160 television for Metromedia, and he was selling local advertising for 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.760 those television stations, but he was based in Chicago, and 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.640 that to me sounded like a lot of fun. You 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.120 could sell advertising time, So I pitched a bunch of 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.560 jobs in d c um didn't get any of them. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.199 Finally got an offer from Channel four w r C, 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.840 which was an owned NBC station, to become what was 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.400 called the Maven, which was somebody they would train in 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.079 all the different aspects of local television. And I was 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.040 twenty one years old and I took it, and I 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.600 spent time learning sales, service and research and all the 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.480 different things that go on behind the scenes in the 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.680 television station. And then I wanted to sell. I got 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.080 kind of bored with doing all that, and they already 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.480 had a salesforce, so I said, give me the Yellow 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.040 Pages and let me have the city of Baltimore. Because 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.200 nobody ever wanted to go up to Baltimore to call 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.280 on potential advertisers and the Yellow Pages, and I kind 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.160 of created my own list and I did that for 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.520 three years and then eventually, you know, took that and 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.400 moved to New York to sell for NBC in New York. Wow. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.720 So w r C. That was your first job out 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.600 of college. Yeah, pretty much. When I was in college, 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.640 I was involved in importing a game that you play 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.120 on the each called smash ball with two big wooden 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.520 paddles in a lot bit ball, and I did that 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.800 in summers to kind of put my myself through school. 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.880 But yeah, my first real job with you know, a 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.480 serious weekly paycheck was was working for NBC starting in 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:20.400 October of nine. Wow. So you I understand there you 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.480 cross path with George Michael and I don't know if 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.760 this this is the story that I hear that that 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.720 you were playing kind of a precursor to to fantasy 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.280 baseball with your friend at this time. Well, you've really 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.440 done some homework, Brian. I mean these are well, listen, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.760 I've got a great team. And this was occurring to 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.360 me too because I think a lot of people, you know, 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.320 think of sports Center and ESPN as being the first 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:55.160 like highlight show, stats shows or whatever. But George Michael, 0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:00.880 which ultimately became the Sports Machine started and part of this, 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.280 as I understand, it started out of your playing fantasy 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.240 baseball and there was no way to get stats, right, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.360 that's right. I had two really good friends down in 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.800 d C. And this is in nineteen. We would go 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.880 to Orioles games and we would come back, and this 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.400 is really a precursor to fantasy baseball. We would play 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.720 Strato matic base Strata Matic Baseball was this board game 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.720 and we would play for hours and hours and hours 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.120 and we had a blast doing it. And then we 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.600 obviously followed Major League Baseball very closely. We were all 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.840 baseball junkies and the only way we could get scores 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.800 would be to call King Wally's sports phone in New 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.520 York and it was like a nine number and every 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.280 time you called it cost you fifty cents. And I said, 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.760 this is nuts. So George Michael comes to work at 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:54.120 w r C as the local sports anchor in Washington, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.120 and you know, I was the youngest guy on the 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.720 staff by a lot, and it comes to me as 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.800 his and you help and find ways to drive new 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.520 value here, and so we wanted to create our own 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.120 version of a sports phone, and we were told that 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.400 w r C was not licensed. You had to have 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.600 special permission from the FCC to do a sports phone. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.720 So what we decided to do is create a fifteen 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:25.480 minutes Sunday night highlight show, and we piggyback the highlight 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.600 show and basically set the phone up that way so 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.520 that you could almost hear the broadcast on the sports phone. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.760 We finally got permission for it, and it became George 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.600 Michael's Sports Line to go along with George Michael's Sports 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.240 Final and we would do a fifteen minute highlights show. 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.840 And that's quite honestly, George Michael was so far ahead 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.320 of his time because he was doing highlights of NASCAR 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.320 and wrestling and bull riding long before anybody really followed 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:59.040 these sports along with your regular baseball, basketball, NFL highlights 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.320 and stuff like that. And then our phone, our phone, 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.080 we had a phone bank of a hundred lines, and 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.840 we saw it. We couldn't sell advertising on the phone, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.520 but we sold it for the show, and then we 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.840 branded people on the phone, and that's how it all 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.760 got started. And that really was the precursor to what 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.240 Sports Center is now. It was all the George Michael 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:23.800 Sports Final, which became the Sports Machine. That is crazy. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.480 I mean, this seems like such a long time ago. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.840 In two thousand five, even the only way to get 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.360 ratings from the night before was to call a hotline 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.000 phone number and from the makeup trailer. Every morning, I 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.280 would call the line and we would find out where 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.920 we did the night before, and I would try to 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.800 offer just like George, I would try to offer analysis 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.080 as to why we were up or down the night before. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.240 As I said to Mike, sure like, well last night 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.600 there was an NBA a very special Lakers Celtics came on. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.400 So that's why our number might be a little up anyway. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:03.240 That But it's crazy now when you can access everything 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.440 with just you know, your finger on your phone. That 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.360 that that's where we started. But yeah, I mean people 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.480 people give it to Sports Center or think of Sports 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.040 Centers as the first, but really that Sports Machine that's 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.680 for you. George Michael was that was the first. You know, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.040 highlights show was weekly Sunday night, and he had these 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.440 big fake tape machines that he would stand in front 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.360 of the pretended to push the button. Had the widest 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.560 knot on his tie that you would ever see. Um, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.040 but he was crazy. But a lot of people, you know, 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.960 Lindsay Zarniac, who's now you know, all over television, was 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.680 on ESPN and does some stuff for NBC. She started 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.040 out there. A lot of really bright young stars got 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.040 their start working for George Michael at w r C 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.760 in Washington. Well, clearly you have an innovative spirit and mind. 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.200 You join NBC and seventy eight, how how are you 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:02.040 hired by NBC? So I was jobs and I finally, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.600 you know, I got into uh see the people at 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.080 w r C, and the head of sales, you know, said, look, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.400 we don't hire anybody who doesn't have experience, but they're 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.359 starting this new program called the Maven Program. I'm gonna 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.720 send you up to New York and let you interview 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.920 for the Maven Program. So I drove to New York 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.879 City and stayed in a hotel and went in and 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.760 interviewed with a man named Bud Hirsch, who at the 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.120 time I didn't know much about, but it turned out 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.920 he was a legend in the business. And I went 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.439 in and pitched him on why he should hire me, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.080 and I brought him a smash ball set and we 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.439 played smash ball in his office. He happened to love tennis, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.080 so he enjoyed that and he said, you know what, 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.080 I'm going to give you a shot. So he hired 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.040 me as the first NBC maven, and basically that was 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.560 to learn all the different aspects of how a local 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.199 television station runs in our rates, with an idea that 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.159 I would eventually grow up through the ranks and become 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.760 a general manager of an NBC owned television station. And 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.320 that was what my initial career path was supposed to 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.200 be when I started with NBC in nineteen seven day 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.440 and then in one you moved to New York. Why 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.360 go to New York? How did the path change for you? So? 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.440 I was selling locally for the NBC station in Washington, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.159 which is where I worked with George, and then I 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.240 realized that if I wanted to grow my career, I 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.479 needed to get to New York. So I was twenty 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.280 four and I moved to thirty Rock, and I sold 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.560 national advertising for all of the NBC owned television stations, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:03.280 and at that time, NBC owned five television stations New York, Chicago, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.520 l a Washington and Cleveland. So I sold all the 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.040 all the local advertising to national advertisers that were based 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:15.159 in New York UM. And I did that for about 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:20.560 three three years and enjoyed it, but realized that spot 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.560 television and the station's business was really not where I 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.879 saw my career heading. And I saw other opportunities out there. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.840 And I found out about these guys who sell network sports, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.639 and I thought, Wow, what an incredible job that must be. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.840 You know, if you love sports and you like television, 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:46.119 and you're and you enjoy selling, that's the perfect combination. 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.440 And so I there was a man named Jim Burnett 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:55.080 who was a legendary sports sales figure who I was 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.560 introduced to, and I basically stalked him. And I'm not 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.359 kidding you, Brian. He would take the bus in and 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.359 I would arrange to be on the corner when his 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.640 bus would let out in the morning. I would three 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.640 or four busses would go by, and then Jim Burnett 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.919 would get off the bus right at the corner of 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.439 fifty and sixth Avenue, right at thirty Rock, and I 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.399 would walk in the building with him. I would go 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.240 up to the commissary on the seventh floor. We would 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.440 sit and have breakfast and I would pitch him and 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.880 pick his brain. And for three months I would do this, 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.720 you know, two or three days a week, until finally 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.800 I think he got tired of me badgering him and 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.200 he said, I want you to come work for us, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.040 which did not go over very well with the group 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.080 that I was currently working for, but I made the 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.239 decision that that was the way I needed to go. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.760 So I ended up going and working. I went to 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:51.560 work for NBC Sports sales in and that's how I 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.840 got into the sports side of the business. And was 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:59.439 that tied to that childhood passion for you for sports? 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.000 Was that the most fun thing that you could think 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.600 about doing. Yeah, I mean I you know, at the 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:09.480 time in so that was the year that the Bears 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:14.000 had this dominant NFL team that was you know, Jim McMahon, 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.879 Walter Payton, you know, Chicago Bears. The Redskins still had 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:20.960 a strong team, and the Giants. So the NFL was 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.960 very strong. And I was a big baseball fan. And 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:28.000 here's NBC Sports that has the a f C package 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.800 in football that has Major League Baseball and the World Series, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.760 which they alternate with ABC. They have Wimbledon, they have 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:42.000 the French Open, they have a modest golf package. They 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.600 don't have the Olympics yet. The Olympics didn't come along 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:49.760 until but they had a big college basketball offering, and 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.840 they had a bunch of New Year's Day Bowl games. 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:56.240 And to me, this was what a great thing to 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.280 be able to go out and sell all these different 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.199 properties that I fill. It is a fan that I 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:05.720 could talk passionately about and hopefully get other people excited 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.760 about it as well. So I did that for about 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.320 three three and a half to four years UM, and 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:17.560 then I moved over into programming. Fast forwarding a little bit. 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:24.520 You created the Sports Ventures unit uh at NBC. Can 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.639 you can you? Can you describe to me and to 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.560 our listeners a little bit about about what that was 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:35.639 and how that was fairly unique. I would love to 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.080 tell you that it was a moment of brilliance and inspiration. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:44.520 That wasn't it at all. In nineteen nine, actually we 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.520 lost Major League Baseball UM in what was an incredibly 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:53.720 disappointing and hard pill to swallow. Because baseball had been 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.040 in the walls at NBC for forty years. We had 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.399 done the game of the Week, you know, with Tony 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.480 Kubeck and Joe Karagio. Uh, you know, it's where Bob 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.359 Costas got his start, etcetera. But CBS came in and 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:07.399 made a bid and kind of knocked us out of 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.600 the baseball business. And so in the spring of nine, 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.919 knowing that that was gonna be our last year doing baseball, 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.840 NBC had been sold to General Electric. They were owned 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:22.719 by our c A. They've been sold to General Electric, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.280 and General Electric decided to put a new head of 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:30.640 NBC Sports in and they replaced my boss guy named 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:34.760 Arthur Watson, with Dick Eversol. Now, Dick Eversol was a 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:38.879 legendary figure and entertainment. He created Saturday Night Live with 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:43.359 Lauren Michaels, he created Friday Night Videos. He's really a 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:48.320 a television impresario. UM. And they put him in charge 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:52.520 of NBC Sports and I remember he came into UH 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.720 to meet with us and he UM, he basically let 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.720 a lot of people go. And he basically brought me 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.879 into office and said, I can't let everybody go. So 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.919 I'm gonna give you a year, but you have to 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.240 replace thirty weeks of baseball. Um, but you have no 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:16.240 money to spend. So it was, you know, on the 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.159 one hand, so my wife and I we had a 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.239 three year old son at home and my wife was 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:27.480