1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Today, on the bright side, We've got the woman who's 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: been to every country in the world, Jessica Nabongo takes 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: us on a journey across continents and cultures and shows 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: us how seeing the world can actually help you see 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: yourself more clearly. 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: The more we travel, the more we learn about people 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: who don't look like us, who don't speak like us, 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: who you know, have very different cultures, the more you 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: realize we're more similar than we are different. 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm simone voice and this is the bright side from 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. Did you know that the simple act of 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: planning travel can actually make you happier? And then once 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: you get to your destination, travel is one of the 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: most reliable ways to spark awe. That's that indescribable feeling 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: that just consumes you whenever you're overcome with wonder, whenever 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: you lay eyes on a beautiful sunset or step foot 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: in a new for the first time. I was overcome 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: with awe on my recent trip to Helsinki, Finland. Welcome 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: to thank me. It's a place that I've always wanted 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: to go to because they consistently rank as the happiest 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: country on Earth. So I've always been curious about where 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: that happiness comes from. I was in awe of Helsinki's 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: connection to nature. The food that I ate every single 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: day was so fresh. It was mushrooms that were foraged 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: from a forest nearby, or fresh fish that came from 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: the Baltic Sea. 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: The seafood lover, I am in heaven right now. 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: I got to experience Arctic swimming. 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: You don't have to stay in there for too long. 30 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: I jumped into freezing cold waters and hopped out and 31 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: got into a sana. 32 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: And you're gonna want. 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: To do this again after we've been to the sauna, 34 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: and my whole entire body, every sense, every nerve in 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: my body was just tingling. I felt entirely awake. This 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: trip to the happiest country in the world changed my 37 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: brain chemistry. Every new city holds a lesson, and Helsinki 38 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: taught me that I don't need a lot to be happy. 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: Eating good food with good people, making time for mindful 40 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: moments in nature, That's really what it's all about. Our 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: guest today is Jessica Nabongo, and she's someone who's been 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: chasing awe and wanderlust her entire life. She's someone I 43 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: really look up to because she's traveled to every single 44 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: country in the world, I mean goals. She's gonna tell 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: us how she did it, the countries she'd return to 46 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: over and over again, and her answer to my question 47 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: about how this journey changed her might surprise you. Let's 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: get into it, Jessica Nabongo, Welcome to the bright side. 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: Hey Simon, thanks so much for having me. 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: When were you first bitten by the travel bug? 51 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: Jest? So, I've been traveling internationally since I was four. 52 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: You know, I was raised by Ugundan immigrants who loved 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: to travel. So whether it was domestic or abroad, a 54 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 2: car trip or a plane, my parents really made vacation 55 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: a part of our lives, and so getting older, I 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: kept it going. 57 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: Where are the kinds of places that your parents would 58 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: take you, because I really believe that sort of travel 59 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: in your formative years had to upset the stage for 60 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: the kind of travel that you explored in your adult years. 61 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: For sure. I mean I think when we were younger, 62 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: we went to Uganda obviously to visit family, and then 63 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: we would stop in London to visit family there. Internationally, 64 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: we went to Grand Cayman, We went to Mexico, Jamaica, 65 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: the Bahamas, but we also did a lot of road 66 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: trips when we were growing up. The Ugundan North American 67 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: conventions were a huge thing, so we would always go 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: to them, whether like Minneapolis, DC, Chicago. So I think 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: it was just you know, wherever Triple A suggested. If 70 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: you guys remember remember Triple A like trip ticks and 71 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: all that. 72 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: Yes, remember physical maps? 73 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: Remember map quest I do I do map ut So 74 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 3: my mother for a while was like a home healthcare 75 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: nurse and she that was when I was probably in 76 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: high school, and she used to have me print out 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: all her map quests, which was insane at the time. 78 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, so you grew up as a part of 79 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: this international family, a Ugandan American family, and you're traveling 80 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: as you're growing up. But what was the first country 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: that filled you with a sense of wanderlust once you 82 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: were at an age where you could truly decide where 83 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: you wanted to travel to. 84 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: Well, that makes me think of my first trip. It 85 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: wasn't a solo trip, but I got on a plane 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: from Detroit to London by myself. So the first time 87 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: it was the first time I flew across the Atlantic 88 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: on my own. And at that time, I think I 89 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: must have been twenty two. So I was working a 90 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: full time job for a pharmaceutical company and it was 91 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and I was like, well, I'm gonna go to Europe. 92 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 2: Because I hadn't really explored Europe. I'd only been to London. 93 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: So on this trip, I had a friend who was 94 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: working in Madrid, so it was like London, Paris, Madrid. 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: When I landed in Paris, I didn't have any luggage 96 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: because my luggage never made it to London, and I 97 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 2: left for Paris the next day. I landed in Paris. 98 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: This is the year. I want to just set this 99 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: stage for y'all. This is two thousand and seven, Okay. 100 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: So the iPhone had premiered in like September of that year, 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: so we didn't have that much right, So there was 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 2: no apps on phones anything like that. If you recall, 103 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: there were computers in the airport that you could pay 104 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: to use to send an email. So because I couldn't 105 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: find my friend, I like sent him an email. I 106 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: was like, hey, look, I just booked this hotel. Meet 107 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: me at the hotel, and then I took the train 108 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: into the city and I just remembered like getting out 109 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: of the train taking it to tax The taxi drove 110 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: me for like twenty minutes when apparently it was a 111 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: five minute ride, and you know, I just crashed and 112 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: I got to the hotel. It wasn't as luxurious as 113 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: I thought it would be, and I was so sad, 114 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: and I just opened a bottle of wine from the 115 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: mini bar and it was just like what is happening? 116 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: But I survived and so after like such a horrible 117 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: experience and coming out on top, I was like, oh, 118 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: I can do anything now. So that was like the 119 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: first pseudo solo trip getting into a city. 120 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: I relate to that experience so much. I studied abroad 121 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: for the first time in college and it was the 122 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: first time that I had ever been to Europe, and 123 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: I can remember just falling head over heels with the architecture, 124 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: with the history, and more than that, falling in love 125 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: with the experience of experiencing a world outside of my own. 126 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just for me. It just always sparked so 127 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: much curiosity because I'm like, I go to the grocery stores, 128 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: like I want to go everywhere just to see, Like 129 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 2: I find so much beauty in the Mundanes especially like 130 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: going to different countries. It's just like, how are they 131 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: living their everyday life? What is a part of everyday 132 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: life here? 133 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so fast forward a little bit. You are killing 134 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: it in the corporate world. You've got this life that 135 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: on the outside, I'm sure all of your friends envied, 136 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: but internally you clearly weren't fulfilled because you ended up 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: trading those corporate heels for a plane ticket to Japan. 138 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: What were you searching for when you left for Japan? 139 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good question, and I have no idea. 140 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: I think what happened for me when I was working 141 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: full time, Like I had interned with the company, and 142 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: then I was working full time and I was doing 143 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: really well. I was promoted three times in two years, 144 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: and for me it became sort of is this all 145 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: there is? Like I enjoyed my job, but I just 146 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: didn't have ultimate fulfillment because for me, money has never 147 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: been a driver. So I was grateful, like I had 148 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: amazing healthcare, which now I'm like, can I have that 149 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: healthcare back? You know, there were great perks. I got 150 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: a company car, the company expensing out. I was living 151 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: a good life, but I was just like, there's got 152 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: to be something else. So I didn't know. So I 153 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: resigned for my job. They had laid off twenty thousand people. 154 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: I didn't get laid off. My manager thought I was 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: absolutely insane, and plus I was so young, so he's like, 156 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: you don't know what you're doing. Like, yes, I do. 157 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: I'm leaving and he's like, you're going to teach English 158 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: in Japan, like the country is in the middle of 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: an economic downturn. You still have your job, which is 160 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: a well paid job, and you're like, I'm quitting and 161 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, that's that's what I'm doing. And the 162 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: week before I left, I shaved my head because I 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: was one of the girls who would go at five 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: am to get my hair done every week. I didn't 165 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: know how to do my own hair and was not 166 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: interested in learning, so I just shaved my head. And 167 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: that's why I still shave my head today. 168 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: Hell yes, hell yes, tell me if you relate to this. 169 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: When I traveled solo to Southeast Asia, I braided my hair, 170 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: which I loved, and I also didn't wear a lick 171 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: of makeup. I was wearing those you know, those poofy pants, 172 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: the poofy pants that you get in stores in Southeast 173 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: Asia and I'm sure a lot of places around the world. 174 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: So basically I'm just completely dressed down and I don't 175 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: care what I look like because the anonymity of traveling 176 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: and traveling solo is such a gift. 177 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: Yes, totally agree. I've been over one hundred countries solo, 178 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 2: and there's a freedom that comes with it, for sure, 179 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: that freedom of anonymity, which I love that you talk 180 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: about because I think what people don't talk about in 181 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: terms of like becoming a more visible person, whether it's 182 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: through TV, social whatever, people don't tell talk about the 183 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: loss of anonymity, and that is something that I miss 184 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 2: greatly sometimes when I'm just you know, in public and 185 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: walking and people stop me. Like sometimes I'm very happy. 186 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm like in my own world and just want 187 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 2: to remain in my own world. But that's why I 188 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: love traveling abroad still, That's why I love solo travel 189 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: because it's that anonymity. It's that I don't know, it's 190 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: for me for sure. It's the world welcoming you. And 191 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people don't realize how 192 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: welcoming the world is because there's all these biases and 193 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: lies that are being told to us. But yeah, I 194 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: definitely feel a sense of freedom when traveling abroad, and I. 195 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: Think anybody experiences that too, even if you're not in 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: a public facing field. When you travel to a new 197 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: country solo, you just you know you're not going to 198 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: run into anyone, you know. It's not like going to 199 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: the grocery store and oh no, I saw my ex 200 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: from high school. It's so liberating. As you mentioned, and 201 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: you also spoke to how welcoming the world can be, 202 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: and that is such a beautiful concept, that is so real. 203 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: How did Japan welcome you? 204 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, my goodness, Well that was a little bit of 205 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: a mixed bag. But Japan, to me is one of 206 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: the most welcoming countries in the world, and they also 207 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 2: strive to like not be rude. This is two thousand 208 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: and eight, right, There's no Instagram doesn't exist, obviously, TikTok 209 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: doesn't exist. Twitter just started, and so the world is 210 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: definitely globalized, but it's not as integrated as we are now, right, 211 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: So what does that mean? A lot of Japanese have 212 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: never seen a black person, and certainly not a woman 213 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: with no hair, right, so that could be very striking 214 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: in a very homogenous place, right, so you would see 215 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: they would try so hard not to stare, which I'm like, oh, 216 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: I appreciate them so much, but just always so helpful. 217 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 2: And even when they didn't speak English, you could just 218 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: point to something on a map and someone would like 219 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: walk you there, and so it was always this above 220 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 2: and beyond. And what I really like about Japanese culture 221 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: is that if you tip, like you don't tip, so 222 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: if you tip, they will give you your money back. 223 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: So it's really just it's so embedded in the culture 224 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: that they're super welcoming to visitors, whether in their home 225 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: or just in their country. And I love it so much. 226 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: I experienced something so similar in Asia because I'm six 227 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: feet tall and I had these long braids, so people 228 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: when I was walking around, they would just call me 229 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: Bob Marley. They would just that became my name in 230 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: Laos and I was like, Okay, I guess I love Bob. 231 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: I guess I'll take it. 232 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: When I was in Istamble for the first time, that 233 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: was two thousand and nine, everyone called me Obama. Oh 234 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 2: my gosh, stop time. I'm like, okay, misgendering, but fine, whatever, 235 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: it's cool. 236 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: Not even Michelle. You couldn't even go to Michelle in there. 237 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: With Obama Obama Obama. 238 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: So you have traveled to every single country in the world, 239 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: which is such a massive accomplishment it's almost hard to fathom. 240 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: So I want to I want to go back in 241 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: time to that moment when you decided to set out 242 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: on this journey. What clicked for you in that moment? 243 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: What was your why? 244 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: So I was in Bali and I was just there, 245 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: you know, looking for myself wherever she might be. Man, 246 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: a friend had come to see me while I was there, 247 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 2: and you're having a conversation. I was like, I want 248 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: Oprah to interview me. She's like, why would Oprah interview you? 249 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know. I want to figure 250 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: something out. And at the same time, I had heard 251 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: of an American woman who'd gotten the Guinness record for 252 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: visiting every country. The fact this, and I'd always wanted 253 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: to go to every country in the world at that time. 254 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 2: On my blog, every year I would fill in a 255 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: map to show the new countries that I visited. So 256 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: I was always filling in this map. But I thought 257 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: like I'd visit every country in the world by the 258 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 2: time I'm forty or fifty. But when I was in Bali, 259 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: I decided, you know what, I want to be the 260 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: first black woman to visit every country in the world. 261 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: And so at that point I was one hundred and 262 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: thirty five countries away from my goal, and I said, 263 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to do it by my thirty fifth birthday. 264 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: And so I overshot my birthday by five months. But 265 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: I finished when I was thirty five. And what I 266 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: will say is like over time, because it really was 267 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: like I just wanted to do something of note. I 268 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: guess in a way because like you know, I've worked 269 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: for the un I'd worked corporate. I yeah, because I 270 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: was twenty seventeen, I'd gone to London School of Economics, 271 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: I'd done like a lot of things that are great. 272 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: But I just was like, I want to do something else. 273 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: I like projects and so but what I will say 274 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: is over time, what became of this journey was that 275 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: it was so much bigger than me, and it became 276 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: about other people seeing me a woman mostly traveling solo, 277 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: a black woman, seeing me out in the world in 278 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: them finding courage through me and through my social and 279 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: so I think in the end it wasn't even my journey. 280 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: The journey belonged to everyone else who was along for 281 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: the ride, and you know, and I'm humbled by that, 282 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: and I'm happy that I'm happy to give it away, 283 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: and I'm happy that I was sort of the vessel 284 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: for this entire experience. And beyond that, I'm a storyteller naturally, 285 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: I'm a writer, I'm a photographer, and so it was 286 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: such a beautiful opportunity to tell stories that we don't 287 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: typically hear because so much reporting and travel writing so 288 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: biased in a variety of ways that it was really 289 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: an opportunity for me to shine a light on places. 290 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: I always wanted to be a teacher, so I also 291 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: got to teach people geography as I was going along 292 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: as well. 293 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: More from Jessica and Nabongo after this quick break, we're 294 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: back with Jessica Nabongo. I've heard you say once that 295 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: you don't think that solo travel is brave. Why do 296 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: you have such a strong reaction to that word in 297 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: the context of. 298 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: Travel, Because I'm not afraid of people, and so the 299 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: biggest lesson that I learned from visiting every country in 300 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: the world is that most people are good. I don't 301 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: care about the Internet. I don't care about crazy leaders 302 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: around the entire world. Most people are good, and I 303 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 2: will argue that to the depth. So for me, going 304 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: to a place that I've never been doesn't require any 305 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: sort of bravery. All it requires is a plane ticket 306 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: and maybe a VSA. You know. But I really want 307 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: us to get past that because I think the patriarch, 308 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: specifically for women, the patriarchy is such that it convinces 309 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: us if we leave our home we are unsafe. So 310 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: for me, I'm just like, we have to remove those 311 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: biases that we have, and of course, don't be stupid, 312 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: but as women, we have intuition. Listen to it. Sometimes 313 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: I go and I meet people and I get a 314 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: weird energy vibe and I'm like, ooh, got to get 315 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: out of here. So I listen to my intuition. But 316 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: I'm not afraid of human beings, so I refuse to 317 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 2: be afraid of exploring the world. 318 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: I agree with you one thousand percent, and I haven't 319 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: traveled nearly as much as you, but I have done 320 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: some solo traveling and I don't view it as brave. 321 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: I think what's brave is getting out of a relationship 322 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: that's bad for you. What's brave is quitting a job 323 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: like you did. That's not serving you. But to go 324 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: and meet fellow citizens of the world who are just 325 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: living and existing just like we are, you know, perhaps 326 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: in slightly different settings and contexts, that's not brave. That's 327 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: I honestly, Jessica, feel like that's our responsibility. 328 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, And I think the more we travel, 329 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: the more we learn about people who don't look like us, 330 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 2: who don't speak like us, who you know, have very 331 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 2: different cultures, the more you realize we're more similar than 332 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 2: we are than we are different. The only thing that 333 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: really might be a barrier is some kind of lack 334 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: of communication. But then if you're clever, you communicate with 335 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 2: your hands, you communicate with their face. Like, there's so 336 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: many ways that we can communicate with other people, even 337 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: if we don't speak the same language. And to me, 338 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: traveling specifically traveling solo, allows you to sort of hone 339 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: those skills. 340 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: Did you ever feel lonely during your travels? 341 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, But I think it because I was 342 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: doing such an excessive amount of travel, right, So I 343 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: did one hundred and sixty six countries in two and 344 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: a half years, so like that's just insane and it's 345 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 2: nowhere near the Guinness records. So just keeping that in mind. 346 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: But I definitely got lonely. But I will say I 347 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: made so many friends traveling to every country in the world. 348 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 2: I'm talking about guys who became friends, drivers who became friends, 349 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 2: people that I still check in with now. Like, if 350 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: you look in my WhatsApp, there's probably like one hundred 351 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 2: countries represented in my WhatsApp. Because I'm someone I can 352 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: talk to it. I can talk to a wall quite frankly, 353 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: but I spent my time talking to people, and so 354 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: there were times where I was a little bit lonely, 355 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: but it wasn't even often enough to be of note 356 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: because I got the opportunity to meet so many new 357 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: friends around the world. 358 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: This is so great to hear because I actually think 359 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: the biggest barrier too for most p people for traveling 360 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: and seeing the world by themselves is actually not the 361 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: fear of a loss of safety. It's being alone with yourself. 362 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for sure. I Look, here's what I 363 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: tell people if they're interested in like starting to solo travel, 364 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: Start at home, right, go to dinner by yourself, Go 365 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 2: to the museum by yourself, you know, do go to 366 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: the movies by yourself. Get used to being on your own. 367 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: Go to a local bar in your go to a 368 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: local hotel in your city, and sit at the hotel 369 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: bar talk to the bartender, because then you'll get used 370 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: to that, and you'll get used to Okay, how can 371 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: I start talking to other people in this space when 372 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: I'm by myself? I love talking to bartenders, Like that 373 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: is my favorite thing to do in the entire world, 374 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: all over the world, because they're local, they're going to 375 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 2: tell you where to go, they always have good stories. 376 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think if you want to get comfortable, 377 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: get comfortable close to home, and then you know, explore 378 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: the fun thing to your point earlier about like the 379 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: anonymity of it all. When you're traveling abroad in your alone, 380 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: you can be anybody, yes, okay, like no one knows 381 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: who you are if you want to. It's like this 382 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 2: is your Oscar winning debut. Like, just make up a 383 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: whole new personality. You know, if you're usually an introvert, 384 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: be an extrovert, even if you have like a little 385 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: fear of that. Just do it. Be crazy, don't be great, 386 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: Do whatever. I don't know. I just feel like it's 387 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: such a cool experience because like, no one knows who 388 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: you are, and you can be anybody you want to be. 389 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: You write in your book that you wanted to challenge 390 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: people's assumptions about countries that are not the darlings of 391 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: the travel industry. Can you share one or two countries 392 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: that challenged your own assumptions. 393 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: I'll talk about Sudan, which is always heartbreaking just because 394 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: of the situation they're in now. And I have a 395 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: lot of Sudanese friends. You know, I covered my head 396 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 2: whatever I get in the airport. It's just men everywhere, right, 397 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 2: And I feel like as women, we're sort of raised 398 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 2: to believe like we shouldn't be in spaces where it's 399 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: only men, right, Like that's sort of like, you know, alert, alert, 400 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: we shouldn't be here, we don't belong here. So I 401 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: literally only see men. So I'm like, okay, whatever, I just, 402 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: you know, make sure my scarf is a little tight, 403 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: my butt is covered. And I cannot find my friend 404 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: who's picking me up, And because the US had an 405 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: embargo on Sudan, my cell phone doesn't work. So I 406 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: go to a little cell phone store in the airport, 407 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: and they're like ignoring me, like men are getting in 408 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: line behind me, they're you know, servicing the men before me. 409 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, I'm getting so just frustrated. No 410 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: one is doing anything to me. No one's like making 411 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 2: me feel uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. So I'm like on the 412 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 2: verge of tears. And I go to a currency exchange 413 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: and I'm like asking the guy like do you speak English, 414 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: and he's like yeah. I'm like, I'm trying to find 415 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: my friend, and so he gives me his phone and 416 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 2: he's like just go to it, like, oh, Fi, you're 417 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: in friends. So I call my friend. I see him 418 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 2: outside and I'm like, I see my friends. So I 419 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 2: take the phone back. The guy was so sweet to me. 420 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: I get out and I find my friend and it's fine. 421 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: And the reason I tell this story is because I 422 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: was so nervous and I was like getting worked up 423 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: and I was like on the verge of tears, but 424 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 2: no one did anything to me. And the reason I 425 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: say that is because sometimes we feel a sort of 426 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 2: way and like, you know, our alerts and our nervous 427 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: system are going off, but it has nothing to do 428 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 2: with the place, right, So I wouldn't say, oh, Sudan 429 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 2: is a place where they made me uncomfortable. It's like, no, 430 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: I was uncomfortable because it was a very specific situation. 431 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: But anyway, so when I left, I got to spend 432 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: like I think, I was there for like a week 433 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: with some friends of mine. It was Christmas and we 434 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 2: got to go to the Pyramids and Marrowy, which is 435 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: so amazing, And a lot of people don't realize that 436 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 2: Sudan has more pyramids than Egypt actually, and like you know, Sudan, 437 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: the word Sudan actually means land of the Blacks, is 438 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: the home of the Nubian people who obviously migrated north 439 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 2: up into Egypt. And so Sudan is just a country 440 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 2: that I absolutely fell in love with. I fell in 441 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 2: love with the generosity of the people, with the history 442 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 2: of the country. That's where the two niles converge, and 443 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: it's just a place that will always be in my heart. 444 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: And of course now Khartoum is nothing like it used 445 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: to be. My friends who lived there had to flee. 446 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 2: There's so many internally to displaced people, and so I 447 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: don't know that I'll ever be able to go back 448 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 2: to Khartom. Maybe Port Sudan, but Sudan is definitely a 449 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: country like that has my heart and I never would 450 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: have thought I would fall in love with Sudan. Another 451 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 2: place I would say is Jordan. So I really love 452 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: the Middle East. As an African, I find there's so 453 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: many similarities between African cultures and Middle Eastern cultures. I 454 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: love it. It's super welcoming. Jordan specifically has the history, 455 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: it has Petra, It's on the Dead Sea, like, there's 456 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: just so much to see and do, and the people. 457 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: Jordanians are some of the nicest people in the entire world. 458 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: And I'm on is just lit like we went to 459 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: fun brunches. Jordan is actually a wine producing country, which 460 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 2: a lot of people don't know. Uh. And So Jordan 461 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 2: is another place that's so special on my heart just 462 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 2: because just amazing landscapes, but the people there are so incredible. 463 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: It's always the people, isn't it. 464 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: It's always the people. 465 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: So after traveling to one hundred and ninety five countries, 466 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: I can only imagine the kind of breakthroughs, personal breakthroughs, 467 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: mental emotional breakthroughs that you had. What did you let 468 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: go of throughout this journey, I. 469 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: Think my attachment to things, my attachment to most things 470 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: is like almost nonexistent, except for like things from childhood. 471 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: But like you just you realize what's important and what's 472 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: not important is like consumption, right, I changed greatly from 473 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 2: I lived abroad for seven years, so I lived in Japan. 474 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 2: From there, I went to London, benin Italy and spent 475 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: seven years across those places. There's not this attachment to consumption. 476 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: We in other parts of the world. People aren't consuming 477 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: every single day, right, like every single day. Even being 478 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 2: back here now, I'm like, I'm consuming too much because 479 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 2: it's always in your face. 480 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: Right. 481 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: It feels like the point of America is to get 482 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 2: you to consume and separate you from your money. And 483 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 2: so after traveling abroad and living abroad, I just don't 484 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: have that sort of attachment anymore. I don't care if 485 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: people see me in the same outfit this week that 486 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 2: they saw me in last week. I just I just 487 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: I'm not concerned about things like that anymore. You just 488 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: realize so many things are more important. 489 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: It's so huge, Okay, Jessica, I want to transition into 490 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: the logistical side of this now because I don't know 491 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: if you can tell. I'm a traveler. I've got major 492 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: wanderlust and I want to know how all of this works. 493 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: So what does it actually take to pull off something 494 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: like this? Let's start with the cost. How much did 495 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: it cost you to see the entire world? 496 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: Ooof? So I have no idea, but I think if 497 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: someone were starting from zero, I would imagine it would 498 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: have to cause like one hundred and fifty k. Obviously 499 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: that's flying economy to every country in the world. But 500 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 2: I would guess, like, yeah, one hundred and fifty k. 501 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: But it also depends, right, So the reason it probably 502 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: cost me a little bit more is like I didn't 503 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 2: start from zero. I started from sixty and I had 504 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 2: already been the six Continent, so I was playing a 505 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: game of pickup. So when I say I went to 506 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: I always say I went to one hundred and thirty 507 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 2: five countries in two and a half years. But I 508 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: did one hundred and sixty six countries in that two 509 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 2: and a half years because I had to circle back 510 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: a lot. You have to transit through places. So maybe 511 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: if you were starting from zero and you did it 512 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: in like an uninterrupted journey, maybe eighty two hundred K. 513 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: When you embarked on this goal of seeing every country 514 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: in the world, did you have the kind of safety 515 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: net that made you feel comfortable. 516 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 2: There was no safety net. So the thing was, I 517 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 2: definitely had savings. I had a ton of credit card 518 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: points and airline miles, and I had the safety net 519 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 2: of my mother's home, so I knew if anything went wrong, 520 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: I could always go back to my mom's house. Right, 521 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: that was my safety net. But I think so many 522 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: people get caught up in like the planning phase of 523 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: a thing that they want to do, they never start. 524 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: I was just like, I'm going to just start and 525 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: we're going to see what happened. So what I did 526 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: was I was chasing deals, not destination. So I remember 527 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: one of the first trips I took after that was 528 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 2: Grenada because I found a four hundred dollars flight to Grenada. 529 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: So I was like, boom, I'm going to Grenada, check, 530 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: you know. And so I did a lot of that. 531 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: And I will say October twenty eighteen, I ran out 532 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 2: of money and one of my friends was like, do 533 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: a gofund me. I was like, no one's going to 534 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: give me money to travel. That was a lie. Over 535 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 2: two hundred people did and I raised twenty eight thousand 536 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 2: dollars and still on my website at the catchmaf can 537 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: dot com slash support, every single person who donated to 538 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: my Journey's name is written there. So so yeah, that's 539 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 2: how I made it happen. But I think the biggest 540 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: lesson is just start and figure things out as you go. 541 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: So, speaking of planning, are you a big planner when 542 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: you arrive in a new destination or are you more spontaneous. 543 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: I'm definitely spontaneous. Like I just bought a flight to 544 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: London a couple of days ago and I leave tomorrow. 545 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: I just booked my hotel. The thing is, you know, 546 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: I'm just out here on a hope and a prayer. 547 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: But I really believe like I put good into the world, 548 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 2: and I feel like the universe always takes care of me. 549 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: So I'm just like, all right. As long as I 550 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: know where I'm sleeping and I know I can get 551 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: an uber from the airport, I'm good. We'll figure everything 552 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 2: else out when I get on the ground. Now, I 553 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 2: do want to make some reservations at certain restaurants, which 554 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: it's already too late, but life goes on and I'll 555 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: go back to London later. It's fine. 556 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: I feel like I am speaking to a mirror right now. 557 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: This is exactly me. Sometimes I will book the hotel 558 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: while I'm already in the city, like hours before I 559 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: need to sleep. I just went to Paris, didn't make 560 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: any reservations, so me and my girlfriend wound up at 561 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: some terrible tourist traps unfortunately. But I guess if I'm 562 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: being really honest, I feel like the perfect balance for 563 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: me is a little bit of planning to get the 564 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: those reservations that you want get into some destinations if 565 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: you know you got to be there at five am 566 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: or whatever, and then leave so much room for spontaneity 567 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: and wandering. 568 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, Like I do wish I plant 569 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: Like you just mentioned Paris, and I'm like, I'm planning 570 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: to go to Paris next week from London, and there's 571 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: a restaurant I really want to go to, and I'm like, Okay, 572 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to book that reservation. Hopefully it's 573 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: not too late, but I'm going to try and book 574 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: that reservation. Now that we're having this conversation. 575 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: That is one of the perks of solo travel though, 576 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: is sometimes when you show up by yourself, you can 577 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: get into some of those restaurants that have an empty seat. 578 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree, and I will say, like I agree, 579 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: if there's something you really really want to see and 580 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: it requires to gets definitely booked that one thing in advance, 581 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 2: because if you don't travel that much, you don't want 582 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: to miss out on like the big thing to do. 583 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be 584 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: right back with Jessica and Obongo. We're back with Jessica 585 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: and Obongo. I read that on this road to seeing 586 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: every country, you've learned how to travel smarter. How what 587 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: did that look like? 588 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 2: One thing is, especially if you're just walking around by 589 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 2: yourself and you feel a little bit uncomfortable, buy a 590 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: local newspaper and keep it in your hand, because then 591 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: people will assume you speak the local language so they 592 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: won't try to take advantage of you. 593 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: That's genius, right. 594 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,479 Speaker 2: I can't. I wish I could remember who told me that, 595 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 2: But somebody told me that one time. Yeah, so good, 596 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: so good. 597 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: Okay, true or false? In terms of finding the best 598 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: food in the food that locals are eating. If you're 599 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: out of market or something. You should go to the 600 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: stall that all the locals are at. 601 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: I always go where all the locals are. If you 602 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: see tourists, do not go. If they're asking you to 603 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: come in, do not go. It's so funny. I was 604 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: just in Turkey with a bunch of friends and my 605 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: friend had booked like all these fancy dinners at Michelin 606 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 2: Star Da Da Da Da Da. I'm not into that. 607 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: And we were shopping in this market and I asked 608 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 2: the guy said, look, we need something to eat, like 609 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: where can we go? And he's thinking, I'm like, no, no, no, no, 610 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: Where would you get your lunch in this market right now? 611 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: And he's like, okay, cool, let me call somebody. Boom calls, 612 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: puts in the order. We walk around the way to 613 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: get it and it was just like a little wrap 614 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: with me in it. Everyone said that was the best 615 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 2: bite they had while we were in Turkey. So we 616 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: went from smell like you know, we were spending like 617 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: three hundred bucks on dinner. That little rap costs US 618 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: seven point fifty and it was the best thing that 619 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: everybody had, so for me, I also I always ask locals, 620 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: but I'm like, do not send me where other tourists go, 621 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: Send me where you eat, and that's where I've had 622 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: my best meals in any country. 623 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: So what if you learned about being a respectful traveler 624 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: and how to honor the culture, the people, and to 625 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: do your part to minimize over tours and a cultural impact. 626 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 2: Coming in with a humble spirit, like I am not 627 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: an expert in anybody's anything. You know what I mean 628 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 2: when it comes to countries and whatnot, I'm not an expert. 629 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: I do know a lot about the world. I know 630 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: a lot about political and economic history of the world, 631 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 2: but I go in with a humble spirit and I'm 632 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: there to ask questions beyond that observe. I remember I 633 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: was in Guinea bisal and we decided with these strangers 634 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: I met in the middle of the night to go 635 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: to Guinea because I was like, can we go to Guinea? 636 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 2: We were looking at a map, they were telling me 637 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: where they were going to take me. I was like, 638 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: but Guinea is right there, so could we go so 639 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 2: I can check that off. And so in the middle 640 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 2: of the night we left. We ended up in a 641 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 2: fula Fulani village and they're Muslim and it was Ramadan, 642 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 2: so we arrived literally at like four o'clock in the morning, 643 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: and no one said it to me, but immediately I 644 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 2: covered my head because I'm in a Muslim village. It 645 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: is Ramadan, right, So I through my observation, through my traveling, 646 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: I don't need to be told, hey, here women cover 647 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 2: their head. Because I'm observing. I see everybody's head is covered. 648 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to cover mine as well. And so I 649 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 2: think it's just it's a mixture of like being observant 650 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 2: and being humble that can help you to be like 651 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: a good traveler. 652 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: Well, you are taking everything that you have observed and 653 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: you're pouring it into a global cookbook, which I am 654 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: so excited for. Tell me about the experience of compiling that. 655 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 2: It's a massive undertaking. It's one hundred and ninety five recipes. 656 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 2: Most cookbooks don't have that many recipes. This has never 657 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 2: been done by a major publisher. I now understand why, 658 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 2: because it's insanely difficult. So the thing is, it's not 659 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 2: a book of national dishes. A lot of it is 660 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 2: our dishes that spark a memory for me for that country. 661 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 2: So and beyond what we had to do. So I 662 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 2: had a developer and the original book was fifty recipes, 663 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: and one day I woke up and I was like, oh, 664 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 2: it should be every country in the world, and that's 665 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: what we're doing. So in order to fill the gap, 666 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: I ended up asking people online. I asked people via email, 667 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 2: people on my socials like, Hey, this is a recipe 668 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 2: I'm looking for from your country, can you send it 669 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: to me? And what happened, which I hadn't anticipated this 670 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: is that it's become this really beautiful thing for so 671 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: many families because it's the first time they've written down 672 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 2: their mother's recipe or their grandmother's recipe. So many people 673 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 2: sat down with their moms to do the recipe. A 674 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 2: friend of mine and sat down with her mother to 675 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 2: do the recipe. I sat down with my mom the 676 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 2: recipe that I got from Cuba. These girls sat down 677 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 2: with their grandmothers. Same thing for Singapore, a woman sat 678 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 2: with her grandmother and so there. I love it because again, 679 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 2: this book is now so much bigger than me because 680 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 2: people will be able to pick this up. It's a 681 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 2: national geographic book and when they go to their country, 682 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 2: it's like their mom's recipe is representing their country in 683 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 2: a national geographic cookbook. So I again, I just feel 684 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: like I'm just a vessel for all of these things, 685 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 2: but it's serving like a bigger, greater good. 686 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: That is so beautiful and isn't wild. How one bite 687 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: in and of itself can be a passport. If I 688 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: bite into, you know, some larv or something. If I 689 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: taste lemon grass, it instantly takes me back to that country. 690 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: In that place. Our Scotch bonnet peppers takes you right 691 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 2: to the Caribbean. 692 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Now I'm hungry for jerk chicken. Thank you 693 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: so much. Okay, Jessica, I want to do a quick 694 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: rapid fire round with you. So think of these as 695 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,439 Speaker 1: like Jessica and Maugo's superlatives of the world. So, which 696 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: country has the best night life? 697 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 2: Nigeria? I'm giving it to. 698 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: Legos best beauty secrets. 699 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: Ooh Korea, South Korea. 700 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: Most remote place you've ever been to. 701 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 2: One of the islands of Tulalu. So Tuvalu is in 702 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 2: the South Pacific, so it's super remote. They don't even 703 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: have flights every single day of the week. Okay. And 704 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 2: then I got in a boat and I went to 705 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 2: another island where there were like forty people living on 706 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 2: the island, and I'm like, how do forty people live 707 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 2: on an island? So that's crazy. So yeah, definitely Tuvalu. 708 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: Most unexpected place where you felt right at home Aaron, 709 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: What are the top five sleeper hit countries that people 710 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: can't miss? 711 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 2: Okay, I love that, so it's summer domestic. But I 712 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 2: would go Georgia. The country of Georgia, amazing food and 713 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: wine and history. Bhutan, the little tiny kingdom in the 714 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 2: Himalayan Mountains. One of the most beautiful places I've ever 715 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 2: been in the world. It's like magical, great, great energy. Maine. 716 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: I think I lived in Maine in a past life. 717 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: It's the lobster, it's the architecture. I love Port. I yeah, 718 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: the people are great. I just Maine is so great 719 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 2: for like a good road trip. Go all the way 720 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 2: up to Acadia National Park. South Dakota. I went for 721 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 2: the first time last year. I was finishing off fifty states, 722 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 2: great people, great food, phenomenal nature, the bad lands, Mount Rushmore, 723 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: but the entire area around Mount Rushmore is incredible. The 724 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 2: history of Native Americans there. South Dakota is a sleeper 725 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 2: And then I would say Jordan. I don't know if 726 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 2: a lot of people go to Jordan, but I think 727 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 2: it's one of those countries that everyone should see before 728 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: they die. 729 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: So last question, Jessica. Our show is called The bright Side, 730 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: and having traveled to every single country in the world, 731 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious what if you learned about the way people 732 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: seek out the bright side. 733 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 2: I think it's gratitude. We all have so much to 734 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: be grateful for, no matter your circumstance. I try to 735 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: do a gratitude list every morning, but there's days when 736 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm grateful that I have four functioning limbs. Right, 737 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 2: So even if you're struggling right now, if you're depressed, 738 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 2: if you're struggling to pay your bills, think about being 739 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 2: grateful that you have eyesight, that you can walk, that 740 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 2: you can pick things up. You know, it's just you 741 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 2: have to find when you're struggling to find something to 742 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: be grateful for, you have to think about all the 743 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: little things that you might be taken for granted, like 744 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: the fact that you have a roof over your head. 745 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 2: So really boiling it down to the lowest common denominator, like, 746 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 2: obviously I'm grateful for bigger things, but those days when 747 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 2: it's hard I think about the fact that I can walk, 748 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: you know, and I'm super grateful for that. 749 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm super grateful for you in this conversation, Jessica, 750 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much. 751 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 2: Thank you, sab This has been amazing. 752 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: Jessica Nabongo is a writer and travel expert. She's the 753 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 1: first black woman to visit every country in the world. 754 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: The bright Side is a production of Hello Sunshine and 755 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reyese Witherspoon and 756 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: me Simone Voice. Production is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our 757 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: producers are Taylor Williamson, Abby Delk, and Adrian Bain. Our 758 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: production assistant is Joya Putnoy. Acasts executive producers are Jenny 759 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are 760 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry and Lauren 761 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 1: Hansen are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. Our theme 762 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser. Just a 763 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: quick note of transparency, some of the audio you heard 764 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: today was facilitated by a partnership with Helsinki Partners, an 765 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: agency that hosted me during My stay My thoughts and 766 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: experiences are my own. If you want to see more 767 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: of my trip to Helsinki, head to YouTube dot com 768 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: slash simone Boye and you can also continue the conversation 769 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: with me on Instagram at Simone Boyce