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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. Today we're bringing

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Speaker 1: you a dispatch from the frontlines not only of the

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Speaker 1: climate crisis, but also of the Israel Palestine War. Our

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Speaker 1: senior editor, Allen Brown, managed to get hold of an

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Speaker 1: environmental activist in Palestine to talk about how militarization intersects

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Speaker 1: with various environmental issues and what it's like to fight

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Speaker 1: for survival against a changing climate and an occupying force

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Here's Allen with that story.

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Speaker 2: Last week I spoke to a beer budme coordinator of

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Speaker 2: the Palestinian NGOs Network, one of the most important Palestinian

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Speaker 2: environmental organizations. Before we get into this conversation, though, I

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Speaker 2: want to define some terms that a beer uses that

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Speaker 2: might not be familiar to listeners. First of all, you're

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Speaker 2: going to hear a beer talk about nineteen forty eight Territory.

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Speaker 2: Palestine was under British rule between nineteen seventeen and nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty eight, and it was British policy to support Jewish

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Speaker 2: settlers who wanted to establish a national homeland there. In

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Speaker 2: the lead up to and aftermath of World War II

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Speaker 2: and the Holocaust, the immigration of European Jews to the

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Speaker 2: area increased dramatically, as did tensions between Jews and Arabs

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Speaker 2: living in Palestine. In nineteen forty seven, the UN Assembly

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Speaker 2: voted to separate Palestine into two states, one Jewish and

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Speaker 2: one Arab, with Jerusalem under a UN administration. Arab Palestinians

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Speaker 2: and several neighboring Arab countries rejected this plan. Jewish militia

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Speaker 2: groups attacked Palestinian villages, forcing thousands of people to abandon

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Speaker 2: their homes. The situation escalated into the Arab Israeli War

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Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight. By this point, British colonial rule

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Speaker 2: had ended, had withdrawn its troops, and the Jewish side

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Speaker 2: of Palestine, outlined by the UN, had declared itself the

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Speaker 2: independent State of Israel. At the end of the war,

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Speaker 2: more than half of the Palestinian population was displaced, over

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Speaker 2: seven hundred thousand people. The Palestinians came to know this

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Speaker 2: expulsion as the Nakba, and that nineteen forty eight territory

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Speaker 2: came to be recognized internationally as the country of Israel.

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Speaker 2: Because of this history, for many Palestinians, their opposition to

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Speaker 2: the Israeli military's activities is a decolonial struggle against the

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Speaker 2: stealing of their own homeland. You're also going to hear

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Speaker 2: a beer reference the West Bank and Area C. Many

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Speaker 2: of the people who were displaced in nineteen forty eight

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Speaker 2: were pushed into smaller sections of their country, including the

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Speaker 2: West Bank. Parts of that territory are governed by the

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Speaker 2: Palestinian authority, but sixty percent of the territory is controlled

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Speaker 2: by Israel and is known as Area Sea. Numerous road checkpoints, walls,

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Speaker 2: and roving soldiers significantly limit Palestinian movement. That's in a

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Speaker 2: large part because of the presence of Israeli settlers. According

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Speaker 2: to international law, Israelis are not supposed to establish settlements

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Speaker 2: within the West Bank. However, the Israeli government has supported

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Speaker 2: the establishment of more than one hundred and thirty Israeli

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Speaker 2: settlements throughout the region, with the Israeli military providing them protection.

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Speaker 2: Those who fight against the settlements or attempt to continue

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Speaker 2: the agricultural practices and daily activities that make them who

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Speaker 2: they are face armed soldiers or extremist settlers who often

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Speaker 2: kill Palestinians in the name of protecting or expanding the settlements. Finally,

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Speaker 2: by now, most of you have heard of Gaza, a

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Speaker 2: small strip of land twenty five miles long and seven

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Speaker 2: point five miles wide along the Mediterranean Seaza is another

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Speaker 2: one of the areas that Palestinians were pushed into after

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight. In two thousand and seven, Hamas, a

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Speaker 2: political party that favors using armed force to push back

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Speaker 2: against the Israeli occupation, took power in Gaza. In response,

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Speaker 2: the Israeli government put in place a blockade strictly controlling

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Speaker 2: what materials or people could move in and out. Although

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Speaker 2: both sides have at times used violence, the Israeli military

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Speaker 2: has a huge advantage over Hamas and Palestinians, in large

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Speaker 2: part because of US government support. Between two thousand eight

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Speaker 2: and twenty twenty two, according to the UN, Palestinians killed

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Speaker 2: nearly three hundred Israelis, while Israelis killed over six thousand Palestinians,

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Speaker 2: who are mostly civilians, farmers, unarmed protesters, journalists, and children.

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Speaker 2: The bombardment of Gaza is a culmination of these years

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Speaker 2: of conflict, and the death toll provides a snapshot of

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Speaker 2: the power differential. The Israeli government says Hamas killed over

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Speaker 2: twelve hundred people and took over two hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: people hostage in its October seventh attack. Hamasa's Palestinian Ministry

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Speaker 2: of Health says that the Israeli military has now killed

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Speaker 2: more than ten thousand, five hundred people, including over four

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Speaker 2: thousand children. Palestinians say that even if they denounce Hamas

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Speaker 2: and practice only nonviolent protest, even if they make no

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Speaker 2: moves to resist the Israeli military's actions at all, their

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Speaker 2: very identity as Palestinian is seen as criminal, violent, and

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Speaker 2: even terroristic. Amidst all of this exists a network of

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Speaker 2: Palestinian environmental defenders who say environmental violations are inherent to

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Speaker 2: the Israeli government's actions in Palestinian territories and to face

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Speaker 2: serious repercussions for their environmental activism. That interview is coming

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Speaker 2: up right after this quick break. I hope you'll find

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Speaker 2: it useful. I'm Eline Brown and you're listening to Drilled Abird.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for agreeing to talk to me.

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Speaker 2: I know this has been a devastating month.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Could you start by telling me a bit about yourself,

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Speaker 2: where you're from, and your environmental work.

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Speaker 4: I'm abirre B the coordinator of pengon reference of the

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Speaker 4: Air of Palestine. I Ye work in Bingon as a

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Speaker 4: coordinator for environmental and the environmental advocacy campaigns in Palestine.

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Speaker 4: I'm from Nablos in the northern part of West Bank,

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Speaker 4: and I work in different cities and different areas in

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Speaker 4: West Blank and also in Gaza Strip.

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Speaker 2: This season of Drilled is focused on criminalization of land

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Speaker 2: and water defenders, and early on we started talking about

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Speaker 2: doing a piece on Palestine, asking the question what does

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Speaker 2: it mean to be an environmental activist in a place

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Speaker 2: where your identity is criminalized. I'm still really interested in

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Speaker 2: that question. But since we had that conversation, Israel's bombardment

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Speaker 2: of Gaza began in response to Hamas killing fourteen hundred

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Speaker 2: Israelis and kidnapping two hundred and forty people. The Israeli military,

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Speaker 2: with substantial funding and political support from the US government,

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Speaker 2: has killed an estimated more than eight thousand Palestinians. So

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, it's hard to look beyond

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Speaker 2: that loss of life. But as an environmental journalist who

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Speaker 2: is often speaking to people who look at the world

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Speaker 2: through an environmental lens, it has felt important to help

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Speaker 2: that audience think through what's happening right now. So maybe

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Speaker 2: a question to start with is is the bombardment of

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Speaker 2: Gaza an environmental justice issue and if so.

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Speaker 3: Why.

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Speaker 4: Gaza Strip is suffering from illegal blocket sixteen years of

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Speaker 4: cutoff water, the basic can needs for the two point

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Speaker 4: two million people who live in Gaza Strip and as

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Speaker 4: the airport, a seage on Gaza with a lot of

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Speaker 4: restrictions for passing the necessary material for the developing infrastructure. Also,

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Speaker 4: it's like a large prison in Gaza. Now people can

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Speaker 4: go outside even for medical reasons. Very limited dampers can

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Speaker 4: go outside with a lot of restrictions and conditions to

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Speaker 4: the environmental situation inside Gaza. Gaza live under environmental catastrophe

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Speaker 4: as a result of the seage on Gaza. When we

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Speaker 4: talk about the basic environmental elements in Gaza water, for example,

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Speaker 4: ninety seven percent of water it's unsuitable and unfit for

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Speaker 4: human use. This is before the current attack against Gaza.

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Speaker 4: There's really is the use the whitepos for us and

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Speaker 4: it has a critical impact on the environmental elements. Different

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Speaker 4: environmental elements water, water, the groundwater and also soil. And

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Speaker 4: it has a long term impact.

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Speaker 2: Right white fastphorus is a chemical that can be dispersed

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Speaker 2: via artillery shells or bombs that sets fires and causes

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Speaker 2: excruciating burns. Human Rights Watch verify that is really used

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Speaker 2: white fastphars against Gaza in October.

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Speaker 4: When we talk about climate change in Palestine, it's a

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Speaker 4: political phenomena in Palestine, not only natural phenomena because when

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Speaker 4: we talk about climate change, the most important sectors, which

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Speaker 4: are water and also agricultural sector. And we talk about

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Speaker 4: water in Palestine is rarely occupation and put control on

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Speaker 4: the major water resources in Palestine, so we have to

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Speaker 4: buy our water resources from the Israelis with the limited quantities.

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Speaker 4: When we talk about climate change adaptation, we cannot cope

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Speaker 4: with the climate change phenomena without full severgnity on our

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Speaker 4: water resources. And also there is no Perstlian severinity on

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Speaker 4: the land. When we talk about the agricultural sector, most

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Speaker 4: agricultural areas are located in Areas C which is under

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Speaker 4: the Israeli control. So with the Prasilians, even the individuals

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Speaker 4: or the organizations, they have a limited access to these areas.

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Speaker 4: So as Berslian organizations and environmental activists, we cannot develop

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Speaker 4: any planned infrastructure in area C without taking a permission

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Speaker 4: from the Israelis. And many projects that were developed in

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Speaker 4: these areas are damaged by the Israelis.

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Speaker 2: And when you see they're damaged by the Israelis, how

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Speaker 2: are they damaged?

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Speaker 4: For example, in some communities in areas, especially the areas

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Speaker 4: which are near the Israeli settlements, we develop clean energy

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Speaker 4: projects mainly the solar energy or the solar units. So

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Speaker 4: where the Israelis also damage these solar panels several times,

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Speaker 4: and we repeat building these and constructing these solar units.

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Speaker 4: There are two threats Palestinians. The first threat from the

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Speaker 4: Israeli soldiers from the Israeli occupation and the second threat

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Speaker 4: from the Israeli settlers. Different areas were burned by the

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Speaker 4: Israeli settlers. Mainly the olive trees were burned by the

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Speaker 4: Israeli settlers. And currently there is all of harvesting season.

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Speaker 4: And under these situation and all the restrictions and pressure

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Speaker 4: from the Israelian on the Palestinians who live in West Bank,

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Speaker 4: they close all the gates on front of the farmers,

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Speaker 4: so the Palitian farmers cannot reach their land, and even

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Speaker 4: they could reach their land the Israeli settlers attacked the

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Speaker 4: farmers who harvest and pick their their olive trees, and

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Speaker 4: before one week the Israeli settler killed a Palestinian farmer

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Speaker 4: in his land during harvesting the olive tree in Asauya

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Speaker 4: village near Rennapolos City.

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Speaker 2: Wow and in Gaza, you talked about how the blockade

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Speaker 2: has prevented equipment from coming through to build water infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: What equipment needs to come through and why do they

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Speaker 2: say they're not allowing it through.

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Speaker 4: So for example, the equipments that are needed to enter Gaza,

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Speaker 4: for example, spare parts for the pumping puplex station and

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Speaker 4: also some equipments for some materials building materials. Also there

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Speaker 4: is a limitation on the quantity of the fuel. For example,

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Speaker 4: the limited the quantities of the fuel caused a shortage

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Speaker 4: of energy in order to operate the wastewater retreatment plants

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Speaker 4: in Gaza. So as a result of the fuel shortage

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Speaker 4: is needed to operate a wastewater plants in Gaza, row

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Speaker 4: wastewater is pumped to the sea without treatment and that

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Speaker 4: caused damage for the marine life. In addition to wastewater

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Speaker 4: penetration to the groundwater and polluting the groundwater.

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Speaker 3: And also the repeated.

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Speaker 4: Attacks against Gaza, especially the attack in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 4: They targeted main infrastructure and the main facilities inside the

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Speaker 4: development facilities inside Gaza and also the care and attack.

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Speaker 4: They targeted the different wastewater treatment plants and also the

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Speaker 4: Salaion water treatment plant. They targeted different solar energy projects.

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Speaker 4: They aim to damage the main infrastructure and the main

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Speaker 4: basic elements in Gaza Strip. Also during the last years,

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Speaker 4: thirty five percent of the agricultural areas in Gaza Strip

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Speaker 4: it is under restricted areas, so the Persian farmers cannot

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Speaker 4: treat their land freely without Israeli threats. And there are

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Speaker 4: different cases that the Pristilian farmers were killed as a

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Speaker 4: result of because they want to go to their farms

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Speaker 4: to rehabilitate their farms and to harvest their crops. And

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Speaker 4: also the Israeli occupation. They spread chemicals by airplanes in

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Speaker 4: these areas to kill all the plants and vegetables in

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Speaker 4: that area. They claim that it's for the safety and

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Speaker 4: security reason, so they damaged huge areas of agricultural land

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Speaker 4: by spreading these chemical materials on the agricultural areas and

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Speaker 4: the plants.

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Speaker 2: And how do they claim that's a security thing? What

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Speaker 2: security could that possibly provide.

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Speaker 4: Because these areas should be seen without any without entries.

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Speaker 4: For example, they claim that the Parstilians can come near

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Speaker 4: the border without the occupation can see them.

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Speaker 3: So they want to make like.

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Speaker 4: A buffer zone, empty prefer zone without any green cover.

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Speaker 3: I see. Okay.

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Speaker 2: And with the equipment that they're not allowing in for

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Speaker 2: the pumping for water treatment, is the claim there that

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Speaker 2: material could be used for violence? Is that what their

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Speaker 2: claim is?

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Speaker 4: Yes, the claim is the fuel all the materials can

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Speaker 4: be used for Palestinian resistance. Yeah, that's why they put

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Speaker 4: a lot of pressure in order to end restrictions in

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Speaker 4: order to allow these materials to enter Gaza. But there

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Speaker 4: is no reason, any reason to allow for the Palestinians

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Speaker 4: to go outside Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Even children.

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Speaker 4: We have different sick children far from for example cancer

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Speaker 4: and there is no medical relief in Gaza, the suitable

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Speaker 4: medical equipments in Gaza and relief in Gaza, so they

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Speaker 4: have to go to hospitals inside West Bank. So sometimes

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Speaker 4: children with the ages less than twelve years they go

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Speaker 4: outside Gaza without their families. The radio occupation doesn't allow

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Speaker 4: for their mothers or fathers to go with their children

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Speaker 4: to the hospitals inside West Bank.

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Speaker 3: So there is no reason.

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Speaker 4: Only it's a strategic of slow killing for the Palestinians

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Speaker 4: and the collective punishment for the Palestinians. What's happening in

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Speaker 4: Gaza is a collective punishment since sixteen years. Why the

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Speaker 4: children in Gaza cannot take the medical and the hospitality rights.

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Speaker 4: Why the children also cannot dream with the future like

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Speaker 4: any any child in the world, so all all their

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Speaker 4: life are frozen by theli orders. There is a lot

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Speaker 4: of limitations, not only allowing of the spare parts or

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Speaker 4: the materials. And for example, Gaza Strip it was agricultural area.

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Speaker 4: It exports different agricultural crops like strawberry like flowers, like

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Speaker 4: different vegetables. But as a result of the Israeli blocked

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Speaker 4: these agricultural crops, there are a lot of restrictions to

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Speaker 4: go outside Gaza also, and why there is no security

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Speaker 4: or reason for the Israelis Why because they want to

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Speaker 4: kill Also the economy inside Gaza, so the minimum quantities

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Speaker 4: can be imported from Gaza to West Bank, and the

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Speaker 4: agricultural economy inside Gaza. It was collapsed since sixteen years.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to go back to one thing you'd

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Speaker 2: said earlier, just to make sure I understand. You said

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Speaker 2: that the Israelis have destroyed agricultural projects on the West Bank.

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Speaker 2: They've destroyed solar panels and other things in those cases.

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Speaker 2: Is it the Israeli military or is it soldiers? And

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Speaker 2: why do they say they're doing that?

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Speaker 4: For the clean energy projects and water wells for example,

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Speaker 4: the Israeli soldiers they give and orders, they give orders

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Speaker 4: to damage these infrastructure because it is located in Area

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Speaker 4: C and Area See.

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Speaker 3: It is under control Area Sea.

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Speaker 4: It forms sixty four percent of the Personian areas in

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Speaker 4: West Bank.

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Speaker 3: So the majority of the Persilian.

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Speaker 4: Areas located in the Area Sea and the Area Sea,

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Speaker 4: mainly the agricultural areas in West Bank. But regarding the

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Speaker 4: burning trees and mainly the olive trees, there are different

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Speaker 4: cases that are practiced by the Israeli settlers. Settlers attack

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Speaker 4: the Parsian farmers and also they burned and uproot different

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Speaker 4: trees in different areas in West Bank.

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Speaker 2: And why are the olive trees important?

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Speaker 4: The olive trees, it's the identity for the Palestinians. It's

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Speaker 4: as simple a Palestinian trees. And also the agricultural economy,

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Speaker 4: it depends on the olive trees.

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Speaker 2: You know. And I've been reading a little bit about

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Speaker 2: how greenwashing has been an important tool for Israel's occupation.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell to me about that.

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Speaker 4: The Israel promoted itself like a conferently country by depending

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Speaker 4: on different environmental practices. For example, Microod Israeli company, which

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Speaker 4: is wastewater and water company in Israel. It promotes itself

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Speaker 4: like a professional water company in water and with water

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Speaker 4: management all over the world. So what's happening on the

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Speaker 4: ground is responsible on the suffering of the Palestinians, especially

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Speaker 4: in the Jordan Valley communities and in the eastern part

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Speaker 4: and southern part of West Bank for example. And Israel

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Speaker 4: practice or practices water uproa hide in West Bank and Gaza.

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Speaker 4: When we compare the Palestinian water consumption by the Israeli

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Speaker 4: settlers inside West Bank, for example, in the Jordan Valley,

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Speaker 4: the water consumption per capita very day reaches to liters

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Speaker 4: per capita per day, while the Israeli settlers in the

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Speaker 4: Jordan Valley they consume eight times the Listilians.

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Speaker 3: And also we.

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Speaker 4: Have a larger village which was the main agricultural village

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Speaker 4: inside the Jordan Valley, and they depend on the larger spring.

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Speaker 4: But as a result of the Israeli practices, they drilled

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Speaker 4: wells beside the main feed to these drinks. Currently village

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Speaker 4: suffered from water shortage for agricultural use and now you

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Speaker 4: can see a larger village dry. Another kind of green

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Speaker 4: washing which is the Jewish National Fund, which is that

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Speaker 4: it's a charity. They organize different planting trees, a huge

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Speaker 4: planting trees, so that they work under environmental cover. But

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Speaker 4: the reality of GNF is covering the Balistinian identity. They

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Speaker 4: replaced the Balistinian native trees with foreign trees and covered

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Speaker 4: the Balistinian nature. In addition to that, they aim to

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Speaker 4: organize planting trees on the ruins of the Palestinian villages

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Speaker 4: inside the nineteen forty eight land. For example, previously GNF

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Speaker 4: they organized large planting trees on the ruins of eight

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Speaker 4: Palistinian villages inside the nineteen forty eight land in order

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Speaker 4: to cover that there were Brastilian villages in these areas.

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Speaker 2: We should note that in the past Macart has denied

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Speaker 2: responsibility for Palestinian water shortages. And you talked a little

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Speaker 2: bit before about the ways that the climate crisis in

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Speaker 2: Palestine was really shaped by the occupation, But can you

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Speaker 2: say more about how the climate crisis is impacting Gaza

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Speaker 2: and the West Bank and other Palestinian territories.

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Speaker 4: When we talk about climate change, the main important sector,

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Speaker 4: which is water sector, we cannot as Palestinians, we cannot

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Speaker 4: cope with climate changes without severinity on water resources. So

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Speaker 4: we cannot hope with climate change as any environmental organizations

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Speaker 4: or any farmer in different countries. Because the Israeli restrictions

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Speaker 4: on the Palestinian land and its resources. We have plans,

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Speaker 4: we have different environmental adaptation projects, but we cannot implement

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Speaker 4: what we plan because the Israeli restrictions on the land

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Speaker 4: and also on the resources.

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Speaker 2: And given all of these pressures, how are Palestinians pushing back?

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Speaker 2: What is Palestine environmental movement look like?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: As the Prastinians, we believe in our rights in this

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Speaker 4: land and with its resources, so we always fighting for

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Speaker 4: our rights as Balestinians. We don't stop trying to find

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Speaker 4: alternatives and solutions even under these restrictions. For example, in

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Speaker 4: the Jordan Valley, which is a strategic area for the Israelis.

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Speaker 4: On the Jordan Valley we have forty two Israeli settlements

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Speaker 4: are mainly agricultural settlements, so they control as much as

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Speaker 4: they can on water resources and agricultural areas in order

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Speaker 4: to provide and supply these water resources to develop these

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Speaker 4: illegal agricultural settlements.

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Speaker 3: But what we do.

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Speaker 4: As environmental organizations and movements inside the Jordan Valley in

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Speaker 4: order to increase the Peristinian farmers set fastness and to

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Speaker 4: keep them their land, is to develop and to provide

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Speaker 4: them with basic needs, even as not as planned. For example,

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Speaker 4: in these communities we have no water networks, so we

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Speaker 4: provide them with water tanks in order to be able

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Speaker 4: to stay in their land. And these communities there is

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Speaker 4: no electricity networks as a result of the Israeli restrictions,

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Speaker 4: so we developed and reconstructed different solar energy projects inside

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Speaker 4: these communities in order also to increase their set fastness

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Speaker 4: in their land and also in different areas in West

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Speaker 4: Bank and also in regarding as a strip, even as

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Speaker 4: a strip which live under the siege since a very

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Speaker 4: long time. But we try to do what we can

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Speaker 4: by providing them with basic elements and equipment that is

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Speaker 4: needed to develop the infrastructure there. Even it took a

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00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: very long time and very very long process to enter

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Speaker 4: these equipments and materials, we achieved a lot of successes,

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Speaker 4: even it's small successes and even it's slow progress, but

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Speaker 4: we couldn't stop doing this development and this work because

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Speaker 4: we believe that we have to continue our fight to

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Speaker 4: protect our environmental rights.

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Speaker 2: And for you personally, what made you want to do

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Speaker 2: this work to become an environmental defender the way you

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Speaker 2: are personally?

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Speaker 4: Basically, I'm from Bristilian village and I'm very connected with

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Speaker 4: land since my childhood. When I was a child, the

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Speaker 4: most favorite thing is going to our farms and plant trees.

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Speaker 3: And I remember there's.

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Speaker 4: Soldiers when they uproot different trees from our farms, and

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Speaker 4: I will not forget the feeling that I had when

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Speaker 4: I was a child when I saw my tree when

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Speaker 4: it was approoted.

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Speaker 3: So I believe that this is.

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Speaker 4: Our land and we have the right to continue struggling

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Speaker 4: in order to protect land.

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Speaker 2: And I saw that Pengun co authored a report about

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Speaker 2: challenges faced by Palestinian environmental defenders and it listed some

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Speaker 2: violations against environmental defenders, including imprisonment, harassment withholding information, defamation

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Speaker 2: of the image, threats, and banning people from attending meetings.

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Speaker 2: I wondered if you could share more about these kinds

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Speaker 2: of violations and what you've experienced as an environmental activist.

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Speaker 4: We cannot do our mental work freely without Israeli restrictions.

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Speaker 4: For example, we cannot reach the areas that is under

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Speaker 4: the Israeli variations in order to do some investigation work.

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Speaker 4: In some cases we became under the threats to be

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Speaker 4: prisoners by the Israeli occupation. For example, through our work

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Speaker 4: we have to do a lot of investigation in some

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Speaker 4: areas located in the south of Hebron. We took a

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Speaker 4: case that there is a lot of indicators that the

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00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: Israelis dumped the nuclear ways in the southern part of

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Speaker 4: West Bank, and so our colleague who took some photos

395
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 4: for the trucks and for the kieves in the area,

396
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 4: they bought him in the prison and they damaged cameras

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Speaker 4: and the latos and all the materials.

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Speaker 3: We have different cases like this case.

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Speaker 4: We cannot do our environmental work freely without the Israeli threat.

400
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: Also when we want to develop any environmental project like

401
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: rehabilitation of agricultural land. There is a threat also to

402
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 4: control the abilitation equipments like buildozers, trucks and different equipments.

403
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 4: So in some cases we try to work during the night,

404
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 4: not the day, in order to finish our work without

405
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 4: giving attention from the Israelis. Also there is a control

406
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 4: for the information that we collect in different media centers

407
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 4: and media centers and also different environment organizations and legal organizations.

408
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: The Israeli soldiers attack the offices and the control of

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Speaker 4: the equipments and the information inside these laptops and these equipments,

410
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Speaker 4: and there is many restrictions on the Synian environmental activists

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Speaker 4: and organizations. And also there's a reception on movement for

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Speaker 4: the Palestinian environmental activists. For example, when we want to

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00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: travel outside Palistine in some cases the Israeli occupations stopped

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00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 4: us and prevented us to travel as a result of

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Speaker 4: certain activities that we did inside Palestine.

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Speaker 2: And have you experienced any of these things personally?

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Speaker 4: For me, when I participated in Geneva in the U

418
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 4: and Human Rights Council talking about the Amcrooth water apparative practices,

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00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 4: when I return back on the Persian borders, so we

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00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: have Israeli border. First, they stopped me and they asked

421
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Speaker 4: me what I did inside the u N And they

422
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 4: gave me a condition if I repeat this case, they

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Speaker 4: will put me in a jail. And yeah, so they

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00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: threatened me in order to silent me not to talk

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Speaker 4: about the Israeli practices in Palestine.

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Speaker 2: So they said, if you spoke again about the water

427
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Speaker 2: company and those problems to the UN, you would be imprisoned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, okay, okay wow.

429
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Speaker 2: And I guess the last big question I have is

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Speaker 2: what would you like to see environmental movements, environmental activists

431
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: or organizations outside of Palestine. What would you like to

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00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: see them do to address the environmental problems that come

433
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Speaker 2: with the bombardment of Gaza, with the siege and with

434
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Speaker 2: the occupation of Palestinian territories.

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Speaker 4: Actually, that current attack against Gaza shows the silence of

436
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 4: different countries about the realities that are happening inside Palestine

437
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 4: and especially inside the Gaza, the inhuman practices that are

438
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: happened inside the Gaza. So what is needed from the

439
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: environmental movements outside is to share the Palestinian stories to

440
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 4: show that the Israeli illegal practices on the ground, So

441
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: to share these facts by different tools in order to

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Speaker 4: change the community public opinion, the international community public opinion

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Speaker 4: about what is happening on the ground inside Balestine, and

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00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: to show the reality of the Israeli occupation how it

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00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: violates the Palestinian environment and violates the Palestinian rights inside Balestine.

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00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 4: Many of the environmental activists they have sent in solidarity

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00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 4: with the Palestinian environmental movements and they took some solidarity

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00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: actions by signing statements in order to to stop this

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00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 4: attack against Segazza and also to open the borders and

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00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: ending the illegal see John Gazza. And a lot of

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00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: actions are needed by the environmental movements, whether sharing the facts,

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00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: realities about the Israeli violations, also demanding their governments in

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00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 4: order to put a pressure on Israel to solve these

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Speaker 4: illegal practices against Barsinia, Land and the Brazilian people.

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Speaker 2: Well, Abi, thank you so much for talking with me

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00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: about all this.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this time. Drilled is an original Critical

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00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: Frequency production. Our senior editor and the reporter and host

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00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: for this episode is Alan Brown. Peter Duff mixed and

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00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: mastered the episode. Our artwork is done by Matt Fleming.

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00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton. You can find

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00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: a transcript of this episode, other stories in the series,

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00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: and all the documentation behind this and other episodes in

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00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: our Real Free Speech Threat season, as well as previous

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00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: seasons online at drilled dot Media. You can also sign

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Speaker 1: up for our newsletter there. Thanks for listening, and we'll

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00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: see you next time.