WEBVTT - Sit With Each Little Thing 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.040 Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Natur Glover Towab and you 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.880 need to hear this. I wish sometimes that there was 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.520 someone to tell me you are making the right decision, 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:19.880 excellent choice. But often we have to figure things out 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:24.720 the hard way. We have to either suffer the consequence 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:30.800 or celebrate when we've made a good choice. And with relationships, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.800 it's hard to predict how we'll feel after we make 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:41.800 difficult decisions. And when it comes to family relationships, oh 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.080 my gosh. We have been told for years and years 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.879 and years how to behave, how to function in our families, 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.159 and so when we have to get to the point 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:56.400 of making difficult decisions such as estrangement, it's like, is 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.560 this the right decision? Am I doing the right thing? 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.920 Thing needs to happen for me to end the relationship. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.680 That's always a really difficult thing to process. I think 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.280 there are some things that can happen in a family 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:15.800 relationship where society and you know, even ourselves will be 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.080 more accepting that this relationship has to end. If there 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.080 is some you know, significant violence, it's like okay, yes, well, 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.840 clear cut, don't talk to that person anymore, right, Or 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.840 if there is some you know, major thing that happens. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.800 But what if it's I just don't like the people 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.520 in my family. We just don't have anything in common. 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:42.560 We really don't have a relationship. Those things matter too, right, 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.280 But many of us feel the pressure. We feel the 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:52.040 need to stay in those situations, whether we feel uncomfortable anxious. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.240 It's like, stay in those situations because guess what, it's 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.320 your family. Push your anxiety to the side. You should 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.520 talk to these people. Maybe you don't have anything to 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.880 talk about, you should listen to them, talk, just be 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:10.040 in the relationship. There is no easy way to process 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:16.760 these situations. So in today's call, we will talk about estrangement, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.160 and estrangement is never an easy option. I want you 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:23.920 to keep that in the back of your head, for 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.080 the people you know who are going through it, for 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:32.760 the people who are considering it, and certainly for those 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.200 who are already in it. It is never an easy option, 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.720 and it's a well thought out one. You know, many 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.600 times we think estrangement is abrupt, like this person called 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.639 and you were like, no, never talking to them again. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.959 It takes lots of time. Many times you are reflecting 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:53.080 you are taking years and months and really trying to 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.240 be in a relationship. So when it gets to the 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.360 point of uugh, I don't think I can do this anymore. 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.880 It does typically come from years and years of trying, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.680 let's listen to today's call. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.360 So I'm having a hard time deciding if an estrangement 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.760 for my family is best. I grew up in a 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.800 household where we didn't communicate, and issues we had between 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.840 each other were frequently pushed under the rug. And the 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.040 last few years, my wife and I have used their 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.080 techniques and we strive to communicate clearly and raise our 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.000 future family to do the same. Unfortunately, my family history 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:30.920 goes pretty far back, and I did not have the 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.760 tools that I have now for communicating my boundaries and 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:38.480 frustrations with my family. It essentially started eight years ago 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.880 with my sister not accepting my wife, who was my 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.880 girlfriend from college at the time. At first, it was 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.920 just general coldness towards her, which could almost go unnoticed, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.840 but it eventually turned into my sister inviting me the 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.560 things and asking me not to bring my girlfriend, or 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.120 asking her to step out of any family pictures, and 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.080 excluding her in every way possible from family events. She 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.000 does not treat my brother this wife this way. But 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.400 I think that's because my brother's wife was never seen 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.160 as a threat to their family culture and she's known 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.840 her since childhood. My wife and I live in a 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.000 city area, whereas my family lives in a rural area, 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.800 and my wife and I choose not to drink alcohol 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.200 for health and religious reasons, whereas my family is almost 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.279 always binge drinking and seems to feel uncomfortable with the 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:22.400 fact that we don't drink. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.640 Drinking is like a mirror for some people. When you 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.000 say I don't drink, They're like, what's wrong with my drinking? 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.640 You've said nothing about their drinking, their lifestyle choices, but 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:41.440 it certainly makes them think that you're saying something about them. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.520 This can be you know, with family, at work and 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.280 social environments. I've seen it play out. If you turn 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.479 down a drink, make it really uncomfortable about their drinking. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.040 So what do they do? They're like, Okay, you need 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.560 to drink. Are you sick? What's going on? It's are 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.680 you on medicine? It's it's almost like there has to 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.120 be a significant reason that you're not drinking, and just saying, 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.040 you know, I don't want to, I don't like the 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.600 taste of alcohol or religiously, I don't mean, I've even 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.120 heard people say, well, there was wine in the Bible, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.840 you know. So people come up with all sorts of 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.919 reasons for you to do what they're doing because, guess what, 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.279 it makes them more comfortable doing these things that you 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.880 don't do anymore. And so they're saying, if you are 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.320 just like me, we could just be really comfortable in 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.920 this relationship. If you are different from me, we will 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.400 be uncomfortable. And boy, won't they make it uncomfortable. They 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.800 will make it uncomfortable. They will talk about it, they 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.320 will bring it up. It will be a whole thing 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.800 around drinking. So that is, you know, that is a 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.320 common challenge in family relationships, particularly at gatherings. You know, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.160 even if you're the person hosting the gathering and you 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.839 don't have alcohol there, you know, it's like, you don't 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.480 have any alcohol here? Should we go to the store. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.159 It's like, no, I just want to lemonade and tea. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.359 You know, I don't drink and it wasn't on the menu. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.600 So it can be a really tough conversation, particularly in 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:18.080 families where binge drinking is a thing they may see 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.960 that you are noticing their behaviors that they're not ready 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.000 to maybe change or accept or do anything about. And 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.599 so if you're not doing those things, they see that 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.719 as judgment. It's like, Oh, you're walking around judging me, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.920 and it's like, Ah, I'm actually judging myself. I don't 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.360 want to do it. I'm thinking about myself and being 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.920 very selfish in this decision. It really has nothing to 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:51.520 do with you. Let's keep listening. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.479 Shortly before our wedding five years ago, I confronted my 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.359 sister about the way she exclused my wife and treats 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.760 us like we are invisible. She told me that she 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.200 cannot accept my wife into the family because she didn't 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.520 come to enough family events in the three years we 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.279 dated before marriage, and she told me I wasn't acting 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.080 like her brother anymore. I told my mother about this 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.280 interaction to ask for help, and she told me to 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.280 try harder, while she ignored her behavior and chose to 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.240 continue supporting my sister's housing, schooling, and daily errands. Afterwards, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.160 my family continued to pretend to be one happy family, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.640 and my wife and I continued to attend the larger 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.600 family events where we were casually avoiding my sister and 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.680 not really talk to her. We were still cordial overall, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.200 and my wife has always been very kind to my sister. 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.040 So I'm not quite sure what we did wrong in 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.040 the first place, other than not attending enough family events. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.240 As my sister says, we moved two hours away after 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.280 marriage for our career choice. My family tells us they 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.560 never see us, but they refused to drive our way, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.320 and it's a lot of work for us to drive 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.800 two hours to family events to be ignored by my 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.000 sister and parents. Last year, my sister got married and 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.720 her fiance called us drunk one month before the wedding 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.120 can be to get a suit and be a groomsman. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.440 I told him no because it was last minute, and 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.520 said that I would like to work on the relationship 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.160 before committing to something like that. My sister's fiancee agreed 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.080 that the relationship between my sister and I was poor 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.560 and that he wanted it to be better. After her 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.400 fiance is called, I texted my sister and offered to 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.800 work on the relationship if she ever wanted to talk, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.080 but she never responded to my text. I felt pretty 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.320 rejected and like I had my answer. Later, my mom 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.960 called me and was upset I refused to be a groomsman. 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.480 My mom said she doesn't like the way my sister 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.760 and I don't talk and said that my wife must 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.680 have just got off on the wrong foot and told 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.120 me to try harder. I told my mom that I 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.000 contacted my sister about working on the relationship and she 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.880 ghosted me. But my mother still blames me for our 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.040 strained relationship and has done more harm than help between 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:48.839 my sister and I. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.439 Enough family events? Huh? You know how many? Was enough? 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.280 Was there like some tally that you didn't know about, 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.920 Like if this person comes to eight family events, they 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.560 would be accepted into the family. Was it ten? Was 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:08.840 it twelve? That's a pretty vague response for disliking someone. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.079 You know, I don't like them because they didn't come 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:17.600 to enough family events. Hmm. I wonder if it's much 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.360 harder to say, you know, I really don't have a reason. 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.560 I just don't like this person. She reminds me of 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.240 my third grade teacher. I don't know, you know, just anything. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.719 Sometimes we don't even have like this will thought out. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.760 I don't know what's happening. Maybe we feel like we 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.920 have to come up with something that makes sense. But 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.560 when we're just making stuff up, it always it doesn't 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.640 make any sense because it's like made up. And maybe 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.440 people feel like the truth of why you don't like 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.800 someone is too hard. Maybe the truth of I had 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.920 a different relationship with my brother before this person was 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.480 in the picture is much harder to say than you know, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.760 she didn't come to enough events. Maybe you know, you 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040 think like if I say this thing, this will get 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.640 them off my back. And it's like that thing is 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.920 not what makes the most sense, and it truly can't 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.800 speak to what this situation is. So there has to 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.560 be something else going on here. I don't know what 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.160 that something else is and you may never find out. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.400 But it's never okay to be mean to a stranger 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.400 because you don't see them often enough, Like I don't 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.800 I don't know about that one. But let's think about 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.640 this situation of your mother telling you to be the 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.120 bigger person. I heard that a few times, where your 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.600 mom is like, be the bigger person, be the bigger person. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.200 And maybe you're taller, so you are being the bigger person. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.439 Or maybe there are other things that you can release, 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.320 you can let go of. But when you decide to 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.760 spend your life with a person and you have this 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.480 family member who is going out of their way to 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:03.000 be mean, not including people in pictures, not wanting them 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.840 at events, ignoring them all of these things. That is 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.520 pretty hard to be big around, right, because it's like 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:16.320 it's me behavior and it's inappropriate. It's almost saying, hey, 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.280 I'd like for you to end your relationship with this 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.240 person for us to even have a relationship, And I 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.120 wonder what the relationship will look like if they try 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.160 to be nice to this person, if they included them, Like, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.679 there's another way to do this. This is not the 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.600 only way to show up. And so if you're choosing 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.040 to show up in that way, I don't know if 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.760 it's on you to be the bigger person, you will 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.719 be ignoring a lot. And it sounds like you have 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.120 you've tried to, you know, maintain your distance at some 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.920 of these events and play nice and show up and 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.720 all of these great things, and none of it is working. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.280 So being the bigger person is not always a solution 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:02.000 to chaos. We love to use that as a solution, like, 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.000 you know what, if you're the bigger person, they'll stop 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:09.400 hitting you. It's like, what, so if I just block 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.360 myself for ten minutes, then they'll stop, Like when does 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.600 this end? When does it stop being put on you 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:21.319 to recover a situation that you're not even creating. There 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:26.880 is some blame that's being displaced in this situation. In 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.240 terms of the expectations for distance. You are talking to 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.360 a person who left their home city and moved ten 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.400 hours away. And I will say that for some family 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:42.000 members that can be very challenging, and the expectations around 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.520 living away can sometimes look like, well, you move, so 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.120 you visit, right, It's like you moved away, so you're 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.760 responsible for visiting. We don't have to come see you. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.360 That is an interesting way to think. And what typically 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.760 happens is some resentment sets in and you're like, you 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.599 know what, Well, if it's not important for you to 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.800 see me, I don't care about seeing you anymore. But 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:06.920 I'm hearing that you do care a little bit, right, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:12.160 like you would want in these relationships that people return 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.440 to favor that if you drive two hours and sometimes 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.080 they would drive two hours, sometimes they would want to 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.319 be a little bit involved in your life too. The 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.840 way that this typically happens is, you know what's happening 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.040 with you where it's like, no, we refuse to visit you. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.320 And then there's this one person who's always doing the visiting. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.960 And for some people that's okay. They love going back home, 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:39.080 they love seeing their family in this familiar environment. And 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.800 for other people, it's like, I want to see you here, 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.560 and it sounds like you've been very clear about that, like, hey, 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.959 we'd like you to visit, and your family is letting 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.360 you know we're not visiting. You chose to move away 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.679 to that job far away, We don't need to visit you. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.240 If you want to see us, you come here with 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.120 that information. You get to decide what you do with it. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.880 I don't know if there's a right or wrong there. 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:04.960 You can take that information and say, hey, I'm not 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:06.720 going back to visit them, or you could take that 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.640 information and say, you know, I'll go for these big events, 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.559 or you know, I'll go every other weekend. It's really 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.520 your choice and how much you want to be connected 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.160 to them. There is no right or wrong there. That's 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:23.360 the challenging thing about making difficult decisions. We try to 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.400 think of them as right or wrong decisions instead of difficult. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.920 It's like is this decision right or wrong? And it's like, no, 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.840 it's just challenging. It's just a hard decision. I don't 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.800 know if it's a law to be broken in this decision. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.080 I don't know if something will happen if you make 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.040 this decision. It's just a really hard one. And it 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.680 seems like you have chose for some time to continue 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.600 to make that drive for two hours to visit your family. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.960 But I wonder what is it doing to the relationship 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.080 When we're doing things and we feel like we're not 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.479 being treated fairly and the love is not being reciprocated, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.480 that resentment comes up and it starts to look like, like, 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.480 why am I seeing these people anyway? They don't even 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.800 come to see me. Why am I going out of 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.160 my way to operate in their space and they won't 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.080 even operate in my space? You know, For me, it 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.480 has looked like when I go back to Detroit, it's like, Hey, 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.360 this is the space I'll be. If you want to 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.440 come to this space to see me, you can. I'm 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:33.360 not driving all over the city to see people. I've 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.920 already come eight hundred miles. I'm not driving to more. 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.800 I'm not driving one and a half more unless you're ninety. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:46.320 So that's my position. And then also I will visit 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.600 as often as I feel the need to visit. Sometimes 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.040 it has been multiple times a year, sometimes it has 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.400 been no year, you know, So it really depends on 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.360 what feels okay, what feels good. There is no right 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.960 or wrong. There's certainly the opportunity for people to come 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.920 and visit me, some people, not all. But it does 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:12.320 feel good when the connection is reciprocal. I support your stuff, 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.160 you support my stuff. I call you, you call me. 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.840 I'm excited to see you, You're excited to see me, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.640 Like there is something relational in that. If I am 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.520 doing all the stuff, if I come to all your 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.000 birthday parties, all your thanksgivings and I can never have 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.360 my own, or I can have these events and you 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.560 won't be there, I'm starting to feel like am I 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:40.240 the only one in this relationship. It's like, you know, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.160 I just need to put a little picture of you 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.520 at the table, because that is the way I'll have 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.840 to remember you in my life because you actually won't 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.080 be here. It'll just be you in my mind. There 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:55.160 will be this picture, but no person. I'm wondering if 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.360 there is a need to have more one on one 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.840 conversations about this or is it it's like a family 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:07.800 collective conversation where you talk about Hey, you all, it's like, no, you, sister, you, mom, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.520 you cousin, you just one on one conversations around Hey, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.879 next weekend, would you like to come visit? Because sometimes 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.200 people don't visit because they haven't had a direct in light. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.959 And then you have other people who will say like, oh, 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.239 I'm going to come and see you, and you know, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.000 they may need a little push to say, hey, you 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.879 said you would visit. It's been a mom So I 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.080 wonder what the clarity around that has looked like. But 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.800 we'll keep listening because maybe that's not even what you want. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.840 Maybe you just want to cut ties and I'm just 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.240 talking about visitation, and you know, maybe it's not a thing, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:46.280 So let's keep listening. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.320 In the last year or two, my sister has been 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.160 more cordial towards us, but never more than a conversation 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.440 about the weather or something bland like that. I still 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.560 talk with my brother and his wife on the phone, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.720 but we do not visit as frequently due to living 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.680 far away. My parents and I talk, but it's also 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.360 very limited conversations and not very deep overall. We see 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.760 my family for the big holidays and weddings, but that's 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.280 about it. During one holiday event, my mom told everyone 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.240 the company I worked for, but it was the wrong 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.560 company and I hadn't worked for them in two years. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.320 I use that as an example to say our overall 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.800 connection is quite poor. We recently found out that both 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.480 my sister and my brother's wife are pregnant and do 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.639 three months apart. They all live within twenty minutes of 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.520 each other, so I expect that they will all spend 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.040 a lot of time together with their children. I know 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.440 that no matter how hard I try, I will only 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.880 be able to attend larger events for my new niece 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.480 and nephew. My wife and I have not been able 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.879 to have children yet, and we are struggling to decide 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.280 our level of involvement with my family. We find ourselves 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.560 very stressed every time we attend their events, sometimes because 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.720 we are the only ones that don't drink, but also 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.199 because my family spends a lot of time together without us, 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.320 and we feel very awkward and disconnected. 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:06.520 Are you interested and improving the connection without lumping everyone together? 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.960 Which relationships do you want to be more involved in 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.800 Maybe it's a relationship with your mom or this family 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.160 member or that family member. I'm hearing the conversation being 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.600 centered around the family as a whole instead of looking 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:29.760 at everyone as an individual. Maybe you're not ready to 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.520 sever tisee with your mom, but you might be ready 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.800 to sever ties with your sister. I wonder how you 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:40.320 can build those relationships out independently, even though they have 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:45.919 relationships with these other people. I also wonder, as you're 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.199 having these conversations with them, are you allowing them to 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.800 remain surface level if you want them to be deeper? 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.639 Are you asking questions? Are you saying, hey, I'm working 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.439 at such and such, or are you just yeah, so the 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.960 weather here there's sixty five. Are you going along with 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.600 the surface level conversations or are you trying to go deeper? Now, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.680 sometimes people don't have the capacity for deep and maybe 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.280 you do. I'm hearing a shift in what you're desiring 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.480 in the relationship, and so if it's your desire, I 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.280 wonder if you need to lead the charge. If you 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.320 are the person who needs to take some of these 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.680 relationships deeper, you get to decide, you know a little 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.720 bit what these relationships look like. Now, if they're showing 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.760 that they don't have the capacity for deeper, that's a 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.640 different thing. But maybe they do. Maybe they do have 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.600 some capacity to talk about things beyond the weather or 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.360 beyond you know whatever. Sports teams. Oh my gosh, when 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.280 people have surface level conversations and it involves sports, my 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:49.879 eyes want to pop up my head. I'm not a 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.560 big sports person, so it's like, okay, can we just 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.800 talk about anything else? But you know, it's it's where 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.720 people go, you know, it's like, oh, your team this 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.400 or your team that are Oh the weather here. It's like, okay, 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.800 we're we're not talking about anything, and I really want 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.679 to talk about something. How do we do that? In 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.400 other relationships? We just keep going, We just bring those 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.360 things up. I can't think of friends that I've developed 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.399 close relationships with where the conversation goes on about weather 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.959 longer than twenty seconds or a sports team longer than 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.960 twenty second. It's like girl is hot here, girl is 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.320 cold here. Okay, so what happened at you know? So 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.119 how do we go deeper with people and really build 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:42.480 a relationship beyond this stuff? Because sometimes when we have 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.720 differences they don't know what to talk about with us. 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.960 But I have found that all people have something. I 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.359 might not be able to talk to you about self 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.920 help and psychology, but we can connect around gardening. 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:57.720 You know. 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.520 I love to know what you're planning right now. I'd 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.919 love to know how your zenias are growing. Have you 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.199 had any butterflies in your garden? Okay, Well, if we 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.679 can't talk about gardening, I'd love to talk to you 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.560 about shoe and soles and which ones you have found 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.320 to be the most comfortable. Well, if we can't talk 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.640 about shoe and soles, I would love to talk and 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.160 on and on and on. So there is something we 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.000 can talk about, you know, even if it's a past story. 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.960 Remember the time I put on my snowsuit and I 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.119 forgot to put You know, whatever it is, it's something there, 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:37.920 you know, and we have to go beyond what our 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.080 present is. Yeah, and maybe it's making a declaration. I 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:42.960 don't want this anymore. I don't even want to talk 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:44.600 about the weather. It's cold, is high, it's rain and 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:48.760 its cloudy. Got it. We have covered weather, maybe not 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:51.480