1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you. 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. 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We have an amazing show for everybody today. 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do lots of 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: sort of national security state type of stories that are 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: incredibly fascinating. Of course, you guys have probably been following 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: that big leak of all the journalists and heads of state, 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: including Emmanuel mac cron, who appear to have been spied 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: on by this app that a lot of different governments 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: have been able to buy that's created by an Israeli company. 26 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: So we'll get into all of that. Workers have been 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: on strike now for a while of Freedo Lai's new 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: video out that details some of the horrific conditions and 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: including allegations that some workers committed suicide because the conditions 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: were so horrific. Ben and Jerry's decided to stop selling 31 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: ice cream in the occupied territory toories, and there has 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: been a total freak out over that, major blow up 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: between Fauci and Ran. Paul will tell you who is 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: right and who was wrong and all of that good stuff. 35 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: We've also got Rachel Bobard in the show. Her first 36 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: appearance here actually came in the studio to talk about 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: Facebook and antitrust and all of that. But we wanted 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: to start with new details regarding that alleged kidnapping plot 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: of Gretchen Whitmer. This was back in October. You'll recall 40 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: shortly before the election, and there was a big press 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: conference allegations the FBI had disrupted this plot to kidnap 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer. At the time, she was the focus of 43 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: a lot of right wing eyere because of her lockdown procedures, 44 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: which were some of the most aggressive in the nation. 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: We've been telling you for a while now that there 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: were some indications that the very same tactics the FBI 47 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: used during the War on Terror to effectively radicalize and 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: entrap young muslim men seem to have been employed in 49 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: this plot as well. BuzzFeed News and we can throw 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: this tear sheet up on the screen. BuzzFeed News has 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: a fantastic new long read breakdown of exactly what we 52 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: know about how all this plot came to be. This 53 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: journalists on this we're Ken Bensinger and Jessica Garrison. Kudos 54 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: to them for breaking down all the details here in 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: a really effective way. And essentially, we already knew that 56 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: there were more FBI informants at least a dozen, than 57 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: there were indicted co conspirators in this alleged plot. Well, 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: now we're getting down into the even nittier, grittier details 59 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: about whether this plot would have even been a thing 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: without the FBI going out of their way to encourage it, 61 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: to incite it, to provide the money and the funding 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: to get all these people together so that they could 63 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: create this plot. Then the FBI, with great fanfare, goes 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: and disrupt So let's throw McKay coppins tweet here up 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: on the screen that has some of the details. One 66 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: of the quotes from this piece that BuzzFeed did, they say. 67 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: An examination of the case by BuzzFeed News reveals that 68 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: some of those informants, acting under the direction of the FBI, 69 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: played a far larger than has previously been reported. Working 70 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: in secret, they did more than just passively observe and 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: report on the actions of the suspects, which is what 72 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do in these cases. Instead, they had 73 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot, 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: starting with its inception. The extent of their involvement raises 75 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: questions as to whether there would have been a conspiracy 76 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: without them. So, again, not some right wing rag this 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: is a mainstream, liberal oriented publication that is saying this 78 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: may well have been set up by the FBI and 79 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: would not have existed potentially based on the details that 80 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: we're finding out without their encouragement and incitement and providing 81 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: the funding and all of that. Here's a few more details. 82 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: This is from Richard Hanania, who says, you know, as 83 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: I said at the time, looks like this thing was fake. 84 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: It appears that they were using the same type of 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: tactics as in the war on terror cases. So here's 86 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: some of the details in this quote of what one 87 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: of the informants was doing, just so you can get 88 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: a sense of how integral they were. A Rack War 89 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: veteran who said, to everybody at this meeting, listen, is 90 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: everybody down with what's going on? If you're not down 91 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: with a thought of kidnapping, someone else replied, don't sit here. 92 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: The men plan for all kinds of obstacles, but there 93 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: was one they didn't anticipate. The FBI had been listening 94 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: in all along that a Rack War vet for six 95 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: months had been wearing a wire, gathering hundreds of hours 96 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: of recording. He wasn't the only one. A biker who 97 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: had traveled from Wisconsin and joined the group was another informant. 98 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: The man who'd advised them on where to put the 99 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: explosives and offered to get them as much as the 100 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: task would require. Also an undercover agent, so was a 101 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: man in one of the other cars who said little 102 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: and went by the name of Mark. So first time 103 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: we're getting really specific details about just how integral all 104 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: of these FBI informants we already know there were at 105 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: least a dozen involved, were in actually bringing this plot 106 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: into something where the FBI could then come in and say, look, 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: we disrupted this plot, and I want to be as 108 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: extens I want to provide as much detail as possible 109 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: because people need to understand this isn't us just talking. 110 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: This is deep, deep involvement in terms of hatching this plot. 111 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: So for example, this Iraq war vette, he seems to 112 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: have been central. He was a government informant. He helped 113 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: organize the series of meetings around the country where the 114 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: plotters first met one another. The earliest nurtions of the 115 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: plan took root. Some of the people say, then the 116 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: informant paid for the hotel rooms and food as an 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: incentive in order to get them to come. Then he 118 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: became so deeply en messed in the plot that he 119 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: rose to become second in command encourage the members to 120 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: collaborate with potential suspects. He paid for the transportation of 121 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: these people to the different meetings, and then, as you 122 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: could see in that quote that Crystal just read, he 123 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: prodded the mastermind of the plot to advance his plan, 124 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: then baited the trap that led to the arrest. So look, 125 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: this goes right up to the line of entrapman. If 126 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: I was the defense of these gentlemen, I looking at 127 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: this would be pre I would mount a pretty good 128 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: entrapment defense. But the truth is is that this is 129 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: part of the very long war on terror. I began 130 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: my career writing a lot about isis to the Islamic 131 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: State back in twenty fourteen and more, and I remember 132 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: reading some of the indictments and they will push ship, 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: they'll put shivers up your spine because these are Look 134 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: it's easy because you're like, oh, these are terrorists. But 135 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: you read a little bit more and you're like some 136 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: eighteen year old kid in the basement. He tweets out 137 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: something like glory to a lah something, and then some 138 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: anonymous count dms him and he's like, hey, brother, like 139 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm with you. They start talking for hours a day. 140 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: This guy's a total loser. And he's like sitting there. 141 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: He talks to this guy for hours, days, a mentor exactly, 142 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: and he's like, we should do something. He's like yeah. 143 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: He's like, we should buy tickets to Syria. And he's 144 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: like yeah. He goes do it, go ahead and buy it. 145 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: He's like okay. So he buys a ticket to Syria 146 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, brother, I'll meet you at 147 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: the airport. He's like okay, so you coming, you meet 148 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: the airport. The moment you try and board that flight, 149 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: they have intent. They say that I forget, it's material 150 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: support for terrorism. Momi buy a flight and try and 151 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: bord flight to Syria with the intent to travel to 152 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: the Islamic state Boom twenty five to life. It's over 153 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: same thing with a lot. There was a whole plot 154 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: to attack a police station, and I remember, you know 155 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,119 Speaker 1: the headline. You're like, oh my god, this is crazy. 156 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: I think it was in Cincinnati. You read further. They 157 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,119 Speaker 1: were like they were like you should buy a gun 158 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: and then buy nails. He's like, okay, where should I 159 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: do that. They're like this gun store. He's like okay. 160 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: So he goes to the gun store, buys the gun, 161 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: brings it to his trunk. The moment he opens up 162 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: the trunk, boom, Feds come in material support for terrorism 163 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: twenty five to life. This is the same thing, except 164 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: how it's expanding into domestic extremism, whatever the hell that means. 165 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm not saying these guys are good people, but here's 166 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: the question. Were they gonna do this crime if the 167 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: government had not been involved? It looks pretty clear to 168 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: me that they're not. And this goes We're a long 169 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: way back in the history of the FBI, back to 170 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: Ruby Ridge and to Waco and big questions. And remember 171 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: those guys are Ruby Ridge, in particular, Randy Weaver. He 172 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: got off in a court of law, specifically because the 173 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: governor of the jury was looking at what happened with 174 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: the shotgun sale and more and said, look, I just 175 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: don't think this whole thing would have happened if you 176 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: guys hadn't prodded it. Well, you know, it's looking the 177 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: same way here, Crystal Well. And I think what you 178 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: said is really important, which is like nobody's saying these 179 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: are good dudes that you should be like friends with 180 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: or like trust particularly, or that they weren't up to 181 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: anything nefarious here, didn't have bad intent, Like we're not 182 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: saying any of that about these individuals or some of 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: the people who are prosecuted young muzzlemen during the War 184 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: on Terror, But you have to understand that there are 185 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: all these incentives embedded here to push the FBI and 186 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: these confidential informants to basically push these young men into 187 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: creating these plots and then disrupt them with a lot 188 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: of This is how a lot of careers are made. 189 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Number one, So there are individual personal incentives involved. Number Two. 190 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: These informants are oftentimes either getting paid or their compensation 191 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: is to let them off the hook for other legal 192 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: trouble that they're in, which I'm going to get into 193 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: that in a moment as well. And from the macro level, 194 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: the sense among the public that there are all these 195 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: plots on there in your own great danger, and they're 196 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: just one moment away from this horrific kidnapping plot going 197 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: off and they're trying to spark a civil war or 198 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: during the War on Terror. It's like, oh my god, 199 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: we just thank god that they disrupted this plot that 200 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: was imminent to bomb the Herald Square subway stop in 201 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: New York and just imagine all the people that would 202 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: have been injured. And so when you have people afraid, 203 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: they are much easier to control. And what is it justified? 204 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: Justifies more surveillance, It justifies more power budget to these 205 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: very agencies, more budget, more power, more power vested with 206 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: the executive, all of these things, and again, careers are made, 207 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: and there are a lot of politicians who use the 208 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: disruption of these plots, especially in New York City. Go 209 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: back and look at some of the characters involved there 210 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: use that to further their own careers. So there are 211 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: a lot of incentives involved to try to hatch and 212 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: create and then disrupt these sorts of plots. So we 213 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: also have to ask ourselves who were some of these 214 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: informants that were involved, just to give you a sense 215 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: of who some of the incredible men and women that 216 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: the FBI's working with to keep us safe from the 217 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: bad guys. So one of the primary informants who's already 218 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: been called to testify and provide context to some of 219 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: these recorded conversations, this guy was just arrested for domestic assault, 220 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: so allegedly assaulted his wife. These details are from the 221 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: Detroit News. I just thought this morning, so We don't 222 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: have a tear sheet for you, but here's some of 223 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: the details of what his wife alleges he did. They 224 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: arrived home from a swingers party. Trascot on top of 225 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: her in their bed, then grabbed the side of her 226 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: head and smashed it several times on the nightstand. She 227 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: attempted to grab his beard to free herself, and he 228 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: began to choke her around the neck and throat with 229 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: both hands. According to the affidavit, She ultimately grabbed his testicles, 230 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: which ended the altercation. He then fled the home and 231 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: was ultimately arrested. Oh and by the way, this is 232 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: the second of the FBI informants involved just in this 233 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: one case that has been indicted. It's not just an 234 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: informant's FBI specially he was informant. He was also a 235 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: special agent of the FBI. He's been working with them 236 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: for a decade. Okay, So these are the type of 237 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: people who they're using, who again have all kinds of 238 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: set whether oftentimes they're getting paid or they're in some 239 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: type of other legal trouble, and they agree to cooperate 240 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: with the FBI to get out of their own legal trouble, 241 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: to then go in and you know, encourage these guys 242 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: to come up with this plot to kidnap Gratch and Whimmer. 243 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: The whole thing just completely stinks. Yeah, they're not sending 244 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: their best and uh, there's a broader political narrative to 245 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: this too. And look, it's uncomfortable to talk about this 246 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: entire thing. It broke open October eighth, twenty twenty. You 247 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: might think of that as exactly one month before the 248 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: presidential election in the state of Michigan, involving a key 249 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: swing state which Donald Trump only won by like ten 250 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: thousand votes in twenty sixteen. Look, you'd be a fool 251 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: not to look at the political implications of this and 252 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: try and put yourself back in the political mindset of 253 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: what was happening. Then. Gretchen Whitmer was persona non grada 254 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: among the right. She was a media hero. Joe Biden specifically, 255 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: didn't she fly. I think she took a special charter 256 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: jet to be considered for vice president. She was a 257 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: big time person up at the DNC. This became one 258 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: of the biggest media stories of the month and really 259 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: spawned a lot of the freak out, which then culminated, 260 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: of course, on January sixth, when there really was a 261 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: real riot. But try to remember politically how she milked 262 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: it at the time. Let's take a listen to what 263 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: she said. When our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternize 264 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: with domestic terrorists, they legitimize their actions and they are complicit. Hatred, bigotry, 265 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: and violence have no place in the great State of Michigan. 266 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: If you break the law or conspire to commit heinous 267 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: acts of violence against anyone, we will find you, We 268 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: will hold you accountable, and we will bring you to justice. 269 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean there it is Krystol, which is Gretchen Wickmer 270 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: got a lot of political juice out of this. There 271 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: were a lot of people in the state of Michigan 272 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: who pointed to it as Trump extremism and all that. 273 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: And look, it just seems to me that as while 274 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: these gentlemen may be odious and more, I do not 275 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: think reading this evidence and reading so much of what 276 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: were there that were involved in the plot, that this 277 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: would have happened if the FBI had not pushed them 278 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: all the way up up to the brink and then 279 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: indicted them for when this did, and it is to 280 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: my mind an empirically political act that helped the Biden 281 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: campaign in the state of Michigan, where ultimately it didn't 282 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: win by that much. It was only a couple of points, 283 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: I think about one hundred and fifty thousand votes. So 284 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, you be the judge as to whether this 285 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: had an impact. These climates of fear that are created 286 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: around terror, you know, whether it was the War on Terror, 287 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: Muslim extremism, or whether it's now with domestic terrorism, they 288 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: are oftentimes used for political lens And a perfect example 289 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: I referenced before the Herald Square bomber that we've talked 290 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: to you about before. That disruption occurred days before the 291 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: R and c oh and I mean, yeah, so again 292 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: big press, Oh my god, thank god we're kept see 293 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: from these bag We got to stick with the person 294 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: who's going to like keep us safe and who's going 295 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: to be tough on these terrorists and make sure that 296 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: we don't have another nine to eleven. This is a 297 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: lot of how George W. Bush was ultimate reelected was 298 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: the sense among people of like, we have to be afraid. 299 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: There's all these plots, all these nefarious actors out there. 300 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: I remember seeing these reports of like they've identified terrorists 301 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: in all fifty states and all of this stuff. And empirically, 302 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm not just cherry picking here, Like the journalists who 303 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: have looked into each of these instances where people were prosecuted. 304 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: During the War on Terror, a disproportionate number these sorts 305 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: of dynamics existed. You had oftentimes, you know, young Musliman 306 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: who was either impoverished at the margins of society. There 307 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: were some instances where they were even developmentally disabled. Those 308 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: are the sorts of people who would be targeted and 309 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: then some FBI and format come in and mentor them 310 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: and encouraged them. If the Herald Square bombing, they showed 311 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: them images of Abu Greb, isn't this terrible? Isn't this horrible? 312 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: Like actually helped them along the radicalization process and then 313 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: push these plots and all that climate of fear is 314 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: used to justify certain political ends. So be very That's 315 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: why these stories are important because it's not just a 316 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: one off. These are tactics that are used time after 317 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: time after time. They're used to bolster political careers, They're 318 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: used to justify further surveillance. They're used, you know, whether 319 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: it's the Patriot Act or now the talk of like 320 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: we need a new domestic terror law. You can see 321 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: what's happened with the Capitol Police of Ah. We mean, 322 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: even though they totally screwed up everything on January sixth, 323 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna give these people now more power, more budget. 324 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: They're going to open field off. This is across the country. 325 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: Don't be fooled by this. Don't buying into their climate 326 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: of fear. Yes are their problems with of course, yes, 327 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: there are. We've had that history for a long time 328 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: in our country. Law enforcement already has all the tools 329 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: that they need and more, as you can see here, 330 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: to try to get in there and disrupt those plots. 331 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: Should also be asking ourselves the question of if they 332 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: had twelve informants involved in this embedded in this you know, 333 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: three percenter group in Michigan, then why the hell didn't 334 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: they know what was going to happen on January sixth, 335 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: and why weren't they able to disrupt that actual plot 336 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: as well as a great question to ask here too. 337 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: But this is all part of a bigger picture of 338 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: the FBI, the way they operate, and you know it's 339 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: bipartisan here. It's things that are convenient for the right, 340 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: things that are convenient for liberals under the Biden era, 341 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: and all of it needs to be called out absolutely. 342 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: I do have one update for you which was flagged 343 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: by a friend of mine on the Capitol Police. So 344 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: we brought you that story a couple of weeks ago 345 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: about Capitol Police is expanding all across the country, new offices, 346 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: all of that. Well, I just found out why, Crystal. 347 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: It turns out that by an Act of Congress, the 348 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act, the Freedom of Information Act does 349 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: not apply to only one branch of government, the congressional 350 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: branch of government, which means that what the FEDS can 351 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: do is they can actually funnel some of their more 352 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: controversial surveillance operations through the Capitol Police, which means they 353 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act requests 354 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: from any of us, so they can launder a lot 355 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: of what they want to do and hide from the 356 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: public within the confines of the Capitol Police. And with 357 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: the Capitol Police, you and I we have no idea. 358 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: That is why currently we still don't know a lot 359 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: about January sixth. The only transparency we have over Capitol 360 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: Police is what they have to publicly testify to before Congress, 361 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: and that's only if Congress wants to call them to account. Wow, 362 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: So there you go. It's a whole plot in order 363 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: to keep you making sure that you don't know how 364 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: those people are spending your money on surveillance. It's one 365 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: of the most dystopian things I've ever heard. Wow, that's wild. 366 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: No idea about that. Yeah, okay, another interesting story here. 367 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys probably follow us. This has been 368 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: a personal pet peeve of mind doctor Fauci and more. 369 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: And we'll say this at the top. Look, you don't 370 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: have to like Rand Paul. It doesn't really matter what 371 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: you think about Rand Paul. He does happen to be 372 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: actually be a medical doctor, which makes him one of 373 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: the better questioners of doctor Fauci of our gain of 374 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: function research. To set up this clip, they had previously 375 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: sparred in which doctor Fauci repeatedly tried to define the 376 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: stuff that the National Institute of Health was funding as 377 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: not gain of function research. Therefore, he could repeatedly say 378 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: it's not gain a function, we have never funded gain 379 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: of function, when in reality what they were funding is 380 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: gain of function research by any reasonable definition of the term, 381 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: which is enhancing viruses which will be more infectious towards 382 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: humans to then and study them again. This is UH 383 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: At the time, it was considered a legitimate research funding. 384 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: This is something doctor Fauci has bet on for his 385 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: entire career. That previous sparring is important for context of 386 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: this clip where Fauci continues to obfuscate. Let's take a 387 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: listen to the full exchange. I want you to get 388 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: all of it, Doctor Fauci, knowing that it is a 389 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: crime to lie to Congress, do you wish to retract 390 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: your statement of May eleventh where you claimed that the 391 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: NIH never funded gain of function research in Wuhan. Senator, 392 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: we have a line microphone microphone, Senator Paul, I have 393 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: never lied before the Congress, and I do not retract 394 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: that statement. This paper that you were referring to was 395 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as 396 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: not being gain of function. What was Let me finish, 397 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: shake an animal virus and you increase the transbility to humans, right, 398 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: you're saying that's not gain of funk. That is correct, 399 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: And Senator Poull, you do not know what you are 400 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: talking about, quite frankly, and I want to say that officially, 401 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: you do not know what you are talking about. Okay, 402 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: you get from the nih can I function. This is 403 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: your definition that you guys wrote. It says that scientific 404 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: research that increases the transmility about transmissibility among animals is 405 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: gain of function. They took animal viruses that only occur 406 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: in animals and they increase their transmissibility to humans. How 407 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: you can say that is not gain of function? It 408 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: is not. It's a dance and you're dancing around this 409 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: because you're trying to obscure responsibility for four million people 410 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: dying around the world from a pandemic. And let's let's 411 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: send doctor factor. I have to well, now you're getting 412 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: into something. If the point that you were making is 413 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: that the grant that was funded as a sub award 414 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: from eco Health to Wuhan created saus Covy two, that's 415 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: what you are getting. Let me finish. We don't know 416 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: Waite came to the lab, but all the evidence is 417 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: pointing that it came from the lab. You and there 418 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: will be responsibility for those who funded the lab, including yourself. 419 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: I totally this comma allow the witness to I totally 420 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: resent the lae that you are now propagating. Senator Okay, 421 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: let's be clear here, there's no lie that's being propagated. 422 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: What's happening there is that doctor Fauci is obfuscating the 423 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: fact that he greenled a grant to the EcoHealth Alliance 424 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: for gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 425 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: What he's trying to do is play games and say 426 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: that specific grant. There's no way that the specific viruses 427 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: that they worked on under that one grant are would 428 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: have led to the COVID nineteen pandemic. As Rand Paul 429 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: continues to say, nobody is saying that. What they are 430 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: saying is that you funded this lab. This lab was 431 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: doing work which was all around enhancing back coronaviruses, and 432 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: that is what could have led to the COVID nineteen 433 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: pandemic as a result of an accidental lab league. Nobody's 434 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: even saying that this happened on purpose. But over and 435 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: over again he continues to play these definitional word games, 436 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: and he is, I mean, look, being sassy back to 437 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: the US senator. Sure it can be funny, but I 438 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: think we've even done a segment where it actually I 439 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: think Fauci did own him. It was back on Someday 440 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: about lockdowns or whatever. But on this particular case, what 441 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: Fauci is betting on is that the media will have 442 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: his back. And I thought Josh Rogan journalists, we've had 443 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: him here on the show, probably the best authority there 444 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: on Lablique put it the best. Let's put his tweet 445 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: up there, because he puts it really well, which is look, guys, 446 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter brand Paul was right, Fauci was wrong. 447 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: The NIH was funding gain of function research in Wuhan, 448 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: but the NIH pretended it didn't meet their quote gain 449 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: of function definition to avoid their own oversight mechanism. Sorry, 450 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: not sorry if that doesn't fit your favorite narrative. And 451 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: there is basically no better way in order to put this. 452 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: The sad part, though, Crystal, is that the media ate 453 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: it up. How do you think that they all reported this? 454 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: Look at this CNBC tear sheet, let's put it up there. 455 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: They're like, sorry, Senator Paul, you do not know what 456 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: you were talking about. If anybody's lying here, Senator, it 457 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: is you. This is where you know that Fauci is 458 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: no longer actually a doctor, and he's basically just a 459 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: media star who exists to go on. Rachel Maddowan Moore. 460 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: He knew that that would be all over liberal primetime, 461 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: and he was right. I hate to say it. The 462 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: truth the media continues to gaslight and obfuscate all the 463 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: facts on lab leak, and they you know, they wrote 464 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: it up as is some triumphant Fauci v. Paul moment 465 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: when the truth is, like I said, you don't have 466 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: to like Rand Paul. Rand Paul was one hundred percent 467 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: correct in that clip. Let me just say that I 468 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: would love to watch Rand Paul get owned in a 469 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: way that was actually righteous. Nothing would give me like 470 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: I'm cheering for someone to do that. But I have 471 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: to admit in this case, and this is the thing, 472 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: the way, the thing that Josh Rogan tweet is really important. 473 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: Why are they trying to obfuscate on this? And it's 474 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: because gain a function research. Not to get too technical here, 475 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: but it's been controversial in the scientific community for a 476 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: long time. There was a ban on funding this type 477 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: of research under the Obama administration. Fauci himself actually published 478 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 1: an op ed in the Washington Post talking about how 479 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: you really got a carefully weigh the cost and benefit 480 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: of doing this type of research. So the NIH has 481 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: these oversight mechanisms in place if you are doing or 482 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: funding gain of function research, so that gives them an 483 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: incentive to go out of their way to find a 484 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: loophole to be able to say, well, this isn't precisely 485 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: gain of function research. So in some ways this argument 486 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: is kind of stupid because they're literally arguing over the 487 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: technical definition of gain of function research. It's like, you 488 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: know whose definition is right, My definition that I used, 489 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: Fauci's that I used all these like legalies to try 490 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: to get through the loophole to say this isn't gain 491 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: of function research or the Frankly, we're broadly widely understood 492 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: definition of gain and function gain of function research, So 493 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: it's kind of a distinction without a difference here. But 494 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: for Fauci, it's there's a lot at stake because and 495 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: for a lot of scientists who've been involved in either 496 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: doing this type of research or funding this type of research, 497 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot at stake because they don't want that 498 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: line of inquiry to ultimately dry up. Fauci doesn't want 499 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: to have any direct connect between the type of things 500 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: that he was involved with funding and the origins of 501 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic, which also gives him an incentive, which he's 502 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: continued to do to downplay the possibility that it leads 503 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: from the lab. Now he is at this point acknowledged, Sure, 504 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: it's possible, but we just played you the clip recently 505 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: of him continuing to say, but I really think it's 506 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: more likely that it was natural origins unatic origin. Those 507 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: those are the incentives that are in place for him. Now, 508 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: look are both of them. Look Rand Paul got a 509 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: lot of love for this too, So let's not hit ourselves. 510 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: Both of them are playing for the cameras. Both of 511 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: them are playing to a certain constituency, and frankly, they're 512 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: both very effective at knowing how to play that role 513 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: and how to play that part ultimately. But it is 514 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: important to understand the incentives that are involved here, the 515 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: way that the most prominent public health official in the 516 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: nation is trying to gaslight you, and the way that 517 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: the media is happy to to play along with all that. 518 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: That is frankly where I'm the most disserved, which is 519 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden, if he really wanted a real lab 520 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: league investigation, you have to start with doctor Fauci. That's 521 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: why they want the who to do it. And they 522 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: don't want to do it. Any US government real investigation 523 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: would find that doctor Fauci has continually lied or at 524 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: the very least retracted some of his lies, has obfuscated 525 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: before the Congress, misled on key facts, has protected his 526 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: friend doctor Peter Dazak as Dazac himself thanked him. As 527 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: we know according to the Fauci emails, that Fauci himself 528 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: was in possession of an email January of twenty twenty 529 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: which said the virus is quote not consistent with evolutionary theory. 530 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: I mean, the timeline of events here is so damning 531 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: for him, and if any of it were to ever 532 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: be really acknowledged by the Biden administration of the US government, 533 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: Fauci would have to be fired. There's just there's no 534 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: question as to how he has conducted himself. I'm talking 535 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: no lockdowns, all that stuff aside in terms of what 536 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: he talket on public health guidance, I'm speaking purely on 537 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: origins of the coronavirus. He is not an honest actor 538 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: and the media is just doing his bidding. The Washington 539 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: Post wrote it up exactly the same way, and I 540 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: knew they would. In the latest clash over the Wuhan Lab, 541 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: Fauci tells Senator Ran Paul, you do not know what 542 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: you are talking about, Senator, And I guarantee you that 543 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: was a pre planned hit. You can see how he 544 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: got all sassy. He wanted that clip to go viral, Fauci, 545 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: it was trending on Twitter. Everyone's like, Fauci owns Ran Paul. 546 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: All these dunces who was all their job is in 547 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: order to clip stuff and then put it out there 548 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: as some sort of propaganda. That's essentially what happened. And 549 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: you're not gonna hear the truth from most people who 550 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: cover this. They're just gonna be like, hah see, we 551 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: hate Rand and look at Fauci, He's the one with 552 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: the real credibility. It's complicated, folks. I mean, here's the problem. 553 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: Ran Paul also was like super anti mask, anti lockdown 554 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: all the way back in the day. And I'm not 555 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: sure we got a big fundraising bump out of this too. 556 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure a man like a very you know, pre 557 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: planned like for his own media spectacle moment as well. 558 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: There are no good It's Washington, all right, You're gonna 559 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: get dirty. I do I do want to emphasize something 560 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: that you said that I think is important because sometimes 561 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: in this conversation you can get the impression and I 562 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: do think this is intentional on the part of Rand, 563 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: Paul and others that it's possible this particular research that 564 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: Fauci funded directly led to the pandemic. That's not the case, 565 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: and Fauci is accurate when he says, like, there's no 566 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: way that this particular grant led to the coronavirus pandemic. 567 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: And Rand does try to, like when he makes that 568 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: comment about you know, millions of people you're trying to 569 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: escape culpability from millions of people dying the coronavirus pandemic, 570 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: it does try to make it sound a little bit 571 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: like it was this specific research that led to the pandemic. 572 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: So I just want to be really clear, that's not 573 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. That's not what somebody's saying. That's not 574 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: what you know, That's not what's being alleged here. The 575 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: allegation is that Fauchi was involved in funding gain of 576 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: function research at this particular lab and is now trying 577 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: to sort of gaslight to be totally like, we have 578 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: nothing to do with this whatsoever. No, that's the issue, 579 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: and it will look. If you want a real investigation 580 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: in the origins of the coronavirus, then this is certainly 581 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: something we have to go down that path. But as 582 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: long as he continues to be the face of public 583 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: health in the United States, we are not going to 584 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: get it. And it is really a tragedy that the 585 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: media is completely on his story because and this is 586 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: the point Josh Rogan always makes, which I think is 587 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: so important. The scientific communities response to COVID has been 588 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: to say, we need one point two billion dollars ten 589 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: times more amount of funding for gain of function, and 590 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: they're going to start the Global Viram Project, and they're 591 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: going to start this and ramp it all the way up. 592 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: They're calling for cooperation with China and all that. This 593 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: is the worst possibility. If there's a possibility, we'll probably 594 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: never know for sure. At this point the Chinese have 595 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: destroyed all the evidence. We'll probably never know. But at 596 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: this point, would you really want to bet Let's say 597 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: this is a fifty percent shot, which I would put 598 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: a lot of money on. You're going to put one 599 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: point two billion into more of this type of research. 600 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: You said this before, we almost already know what we 601 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: need to know. Yeah, around the dangers of gain of function. 602 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: Let's have a serious debate in this country, gain of 603 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: function or not. What are the strictures we're going to 604 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: put around it. Are we going to allow liars like 605 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: Fauci to define things out of the realm so then 606 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: they don't have to meet reporting standards. I'm not for that. 607 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: If we're going to have that, if our dollars are 608 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: going to go towards it, we need the most stringent 609 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: reporting mechanisms required. But that's not what's happening here. Well, 610 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: because the reality is the reason I say we already 611 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: know what we need to know is whether or not 612 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: the origins of this pandemic were from a lab leak. 613 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: We do know that viruses league out of labs regularly, 614 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: so when you're engaging this type of research, it seems 615 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: to me, from Layman's perspective, there is much greater risk 616 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: of sparking something that's really really bad than there is 617 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: of the ideas that you're trying to prevent something that 618 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: is really really bad. So, frankly, whether or not we 619 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: ever get to the roots of how this pandemic started, 620 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: I think we already know enough to know that gain 621 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: a function research is extraordinarily dangerous, something that scientists, including 622 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: doctor Fauci, have long known and talked about. But this is, 623 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, proof positive that we should be going in 624 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: a different direction. That's right. Hey, So remember how we 625 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: told you how awesome premium membership was. Well, here we 626 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: are again to remind you that becoming a premium member 627 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: means you don't have to listen to our constant please 628 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: for you to subscribe. So what are you waiting for? 629 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: Become a premium member today by going to Breakingpoints dot com, 630 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: which you can click on in the show notes. Right. Okay, 631 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: so we're only doing hot button issues today here on 632 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: we're just talk about Bank and Jerry's, the famous ice 633 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: cream brand. They announced this started a firestorm here and 634 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. Let's put this up there on 635 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: the screen. So Ben and Jerry's, they have decided to 636 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: stop selling ice cream and is really occupied territories Now 637 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: for the politically correct way to say that they're not 638 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: going to sell any more ice cream in the West 639 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: Bank from markets which are inside of the West Bank. 640 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: So this is part of the BDS movement. It's actually 641 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: as I understand it, not even really, because I know 642 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: there's all these divisions within BDS, Like some people in 643 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: BDS are like nothing with Israel whatsoever. This is straight 644 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: up just like we're not going to sell ice cream 645 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: in the West Bank. We will still sell ice cream 646 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 1: in Israel. And some people it's important actually a fact 647 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: on this, that is an important distinction. And some people 648 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: in BDS were somewhat critical saying like thank you, but 649 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: also don't sell it in Israel. That's right, yeah, okay, 650 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: so that there was criticism of them there. Now, look, 651 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: they're an American company. They can do whatever the hell 652 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: they want. Well, there are some American politicians who don't 653 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: agree with that, as long as there's really politicians. So 654 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: let's put this up there, and is this really boils 655 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: my blood? So we have here Yayir Lapede. So Yaeir 656 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: Lapede is the Foreign Minister of the State of Israel 657 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: aka like the Secretary of State. And please keep this 658 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: up here for a while because I I want to 659 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: read from it, he says. Quote. Over thirty states in 660 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: the United States have passed ANTIBDS legislation in recent years. 661 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: I plan on asking each of them to enforce these 662 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: laws against Ben and Jerry's. They will not treat the 663 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: State of Israel like this without a response. So here's 664 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: why it pisses me off. This is Israel, which we 665 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: do have antibeds laws on the books in about thirty states. 666 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, if it ever gets a scotus, 667 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: there's no way in hell that will ever stand up 668 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: against our free speech provisions. But here you have the 669 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: foreign Minister of the State of Israel trying and interfering, 670 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: essentially going to thirty different states and asking them to 671 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: enforce laws on the books to punish an American company 672 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: for its stance on foreign policy in another state. And 673 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: the reason I put it that way is, Okay, you 674 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: have an attachment to the State of Israel. That's fine. 675 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: But here's the deal. No foreign country gets to tell 676 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: us what our companies are gonna say or and even worse, 677 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: no foreign country is going to police what an American 678 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: citizen is going to believe and state in the state 679 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: in terms of their politics in their homeland. Now, look, 680 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: I go to Israel, they can you know I'm subject 681 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: to their laws, I'm under their torritory. In our country. 682 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: You do not get to come and tell our people 683 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: how to behave or not. No matter how you believe, 684 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: what you believe about the what you could be the 685 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: biggest Zionist in the world. It doesn't matter, which is 686 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: that if you're an American citizen. This flies completely in 687 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: the face of our politics, of our constitution, of our 688 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: aspiration towards freedom of speech for all. And it really 689 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: really pissed me off because it's not just them. This 690 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: is a full bore effort by the Israeli government, the 691 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: US ambassador, the Israeli ambassador to the United States from 692 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: Israel's put us up there. Gillaud Erdon said the same thing. 693 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: He says, in coordination, I have sent a letter to 694 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: thirty five governors of the US states that have legislation 695 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: against the BDS movement targeting Israel I urge them to 696 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: act against Ben and Jerry's decision to not sell US 697 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: products in the eastern part of Jerusalem, Jeneri and Samaria. 698 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: We will make clear to Ben and Jerry's it is 699 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: an anti Semitic decision that will have consequences. And this 700 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 1: again is something which they do not get to define 701 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: our domestic politics, how our laws are going to be 702 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: enforced against companies. And it's just something crystal that I 703 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: don't care where you really follow on the political spectrum, 704 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: you can't be for this if you're an American, and 705 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: if you're freedom of speech, you cannot have foreign countries 706 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: dictating to you how your own companies are going to 707 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: behave themselves. I say this when it comes to China, 708 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: I would say when it comes to Russia, and I'll 709 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: say it also whenever it comes to the state of Israel. Yes. 710 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: And as you accurately pointed out, every single time these 711 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: ANTIBEDS laws have been tested in court, they have been 712 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: deemed on constitution. This recently happened actually with journalists Abby 713 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: Martin in the state of Georgia. She was supposed to 714 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: go and give a university speech as part at a 715 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: public university. As part of doing that and receiving an 716 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: honorarium for speaking, she was supposed to sign some anti 717 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: BDS pledge. If you know anything about Abby Martin, she said, 718 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: go f yourself and took it to court and one. 719 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: Just like every single time these laws have been challenged, 720 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: they have been deemed unconstitutional because they are clearly a 721 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: violation of Americans' First Amendment rights. In Texas. This was 722 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: a case that Glenn Greenwald followed when he was at 723 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: the intersect. There was a woman who was a speech therapist. 724 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: The state of Texas has a law that says, if 725 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: you're a public employee, then you have to sign this 726 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: ANTIBDS pledge. Imagine telling someone like to be a teacher 727 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: in your state, you have to sign a law saying 728 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: you're not going to criticize this other country, Like what 729 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: what is that? And again, when challenged in court, that 730 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: ultimately was struck down. So they are demanding that American 731 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: states enforce laws that are blatantly unconstitutional. And we would 732 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: be remiss if we didn't point out that there were 733 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 1: a lot of politicians who were happy to back them 734 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: up in demanding things of American citizens and American state governments. 735 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: This is Senator Langford who was talking about who's calling 736 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: on Israel calling on states. Let's see what does he 737 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: say here? Biden thinks, okay, So he says Ben and 738 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: Jerry's has now decided they know more about Jerusalem than 739 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: the Israelis. If Ben and Jerry's wants to have a 740 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: meltdown and boycott Israel, okay, Oklahoma is ready to respond 741 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: Oklahoma has an anti boycott of Israel law in place. 742 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: We should immediately block the sale of all Ben and 743 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: Jerry's in the state and in any state operated facility 744 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: to align with our law. On the other side of 745 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: this graphic, you can see what he said one day 746 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: earlier where he was blasting Biden for is a tax 747 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: on free speech. Biden thinks free speech is dangerous. Oklahomans 748 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: don't need the Biden thought police telling us how to 749 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: think and feel. So just blatant hypocrisy. One day apart, 750 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: so day before he's like, yes, free speech, First Amendment 751 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: bind non trample on our rights, and the very next 752 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: day we should immediately block the sale of all Ben 753 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 1: and Jerry's because they said something that I don't like. Yeah, 754 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: really incredible. I mean know, it shows you exactly the 755 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: hypocrisy here. And look us politicians who are trying to 756 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: censor an American company for their stance on foreign policy. 757 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: That is just completely out of bounds. And it also 758 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: delegitimizes anything that they say about like we're not gonna 759 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: let Coca Cola or whatever, you know, have a response 760 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: on Georgia. I'm like, you're trying to go after Ben 761 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: and Jerry's. What is this for their stand? And that's 762 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: not even about America. This is in Israel. Be look, 763 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: if Ben and Jerry's wants to voluntarily give up its 764 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: sales in the West Bank, why does it impact the 765 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: peace people of Oklahoma whatsoever? Zero? Nothing? Okay. I think 766 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: they would rather their senator be working on something else. 767 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: And this goes to a true critique which Glenn always 768 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: brings up, and I think he's correct. If you really 769 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: believe in America first, and I actually do, I actually 770 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: truly believe in America first, you cannot have foreign governments 771 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: dictating to you what type of laws you're going to 772 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: have on your books and enforce them against your own 773 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: country's companies. That just flies in the face of any 774 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: sort of celebration of sovereignty, of borders, of nationalism, and 775 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: of unified people. Here in the United States. Nobody gets 776 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: to tell us what to do, no matter who you are. 777 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: And this is just something where the hubris to think that. 778 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's amazing that they think they 779 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: can get away with this and not have domestic, domestic 780 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: political pushback. I will bet this, which is that any 781 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: American out there who does find out about this, no 782 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: matter how they feel about Israel this bs. I bet 783 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,919 Speaker 1: you they didn't even know about the BDS laws because 784 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot of these legislatures just pass them and it 785 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: doesn't really get publicize. And I'm personally waiting for one 786 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: of these things to go to Scotis because they it, 787 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: all of them deserve to get struck down tomorrow. It's 788 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: in total violation of our concert. That is an interesting 789 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: question of whether this is going to be a sort 790 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: of stries and effect where once people learn that these 791 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: laws aren't the books, they're like, wait, you know what 792 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: I actually to To this point, Abby Martin was on 793 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's podcast and Joe had no idea and she 794 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: was explaining these ANTIBDS laws and He's like, this is 795 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: both crazy, Like I've never heard of this in my life. 796 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: He goes, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard. 797 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: Why aren't an American citizen and basically take a pledge 798 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: to another country's government on what in order to work 799 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: or go give a speech or anything like that is 800 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: I think most people, if it's presented in a remotely 801 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,839 Speaker 1: fair way, would say that this is completely bananas. And 802 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: that's why they, you know, always just lead with this 803 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: is this is anti Semitism. Actually wanted to add to 804 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: the list of Israeli politicians who had weighed in on 805 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: this in this extraordinarily aggressive way. Israel's President Isaac Krtzog 806 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 1: called the boycott of Israel a new kind of terrorism 807 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: on Wednesday because of what happened with Ben and Jerry, 808 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: which you know, it's There are two things about this 809 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: Israeli government response here that are interesting. First of all, 810 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: in that initial tweet from Yayr Lapede that we met 811 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: up on the screen, he says that they're boycotting Israel. Well, no, 812 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: they're only not selling in the occupied territories. But it 813 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: kind of gives up the game that in reality, Israel 814 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: controls all of these spaces and sees it as their 815 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: right to control and locked all of the all of 816 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: these spaces. So that was very revealing. But the other 817 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: thing here is that Israeli government's line on BDS is 818 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: simultaneously that it's not having any impact and it's pathetic 819 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: and it's doomed to failure, and we're getting more investment 820 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: than ever before. So that's half of the reaction and 821 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: the other half of the reaction is a total and complete, 822 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: unhinged freak out. Those two things don't really fit together. 823 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: If it's no big deal and it's not having a 824 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: big impact, then why are you so freaked out? And 825 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: I think there is a concern that there will be 826 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: a kind of moral reckoning and a snowball effect. As 827 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, these little instances here and there add up, 828 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: and so that leads to this just over the top 829 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,759 Speaker 1: calling this terrorism and threatening American states and all of 830 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: this stuff. It leads to this incredibly insane, over the 831 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,280 Speaker 1: top reaction that I think, to your point, probably doesn't 832 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: serve their interests ultimately in terms of American public opinion, 833 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: and they really like, let's also be really clear, the 834 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: US is really important in allowing Israel to maintain the 835 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: status quo as it exists right now in that territory. 836 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: I've tried to explain this to them, and they always 837 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: get pissed whenever I say that is I'm like, listen, 838 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: you guys are the ones who broke the bipartisan consensus 839 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,399 Speaker 1: on Israel in Washington. You guys were actually pretty good 840 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: before the Iran deal. If you actually think about our 841 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: domestic politics in twenty thirteen and more in terms of 842 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: both parties being pro Israel. But I'm like, your prime 843 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,919 Speaker 1: minister came to our country in our congress to bad 844 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: mouth and campaign against our president. And listen, I don't 845 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,240 Speaker 1: like Obama. I'm not like some big fan. It doesn't matter. 846 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: You don't get to come to our country opine and 847 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: lobby in our politics against at the invitation of the 848 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: opposition party. You aligned yourself with the Republican Party. Deal 849 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: with the consequences. That's your fault. I've explained this to 850 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,040 Speaker 1: them a million times, Like you know, they always have something. 851 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: Oh you don't understand, you know all of this, and 852 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: I'm like, listen, like you have really yeah, I just 853 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: I like Israel. By the way, Israeli government. I'm supposed 854 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: to go to a wedding there in a couple of months. Lewis, 855 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: don't ban good luck brother because of this segment. You 856 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: are allowed to question and detain me at the airport. 857 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,720 Speaker 1: It would be annoying, but you know whatever, it's your country. 858 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: But please don't ban me because my friend would be 859 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: very upset. I have. You know, it's amazing that they 860 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: have the hubris, the government in particular, to think that 861 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,399 Speaker 1: they can do this. But I truly believe that the 862 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: rubicon moment for them is when Neata Yahu came here 863 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,760 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen and he spoke at our Congress lobbied 864 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: against Obama. That opened up a whole bunch of mainstream 865 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: Democratic politicians to say, hey, this is screwed up. You 866 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: can't do this. Yeah, And that was the door through 867 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: which BDS and people like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib 868 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: and Moore have become a lot more. I'm not the 869 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: mainstream necessarily, but let's be honest in terms of the 870 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: way that the Gaza thing was covered this time, it 871 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: tilted a lot more in their direction than ever before. 872 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's the norm now in America, and 873 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: I think among young Americans, especially young progressives, there's just 874 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: a it's very sort of morally clear on this issue. 875 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean, this is like the one issue where I 876 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 1: saw the left come together post Bernie Sanders. Was like, 877 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: everybody was like, this is outrageous what's happening here, and 878 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 1: we can't take our eye off the ball. So on 879 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: the other hand, Ned Price, what's his ti He's like 880 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:21,760 Speaker 1: spokes State Department, who's got a long and checkered history spokesman. Yeah, 881 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: he was asked to respond to all of this, and 882 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: of course he were chiefly opposed to BDS et cetera, 883 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: et cetera. So the holders of power in institutional Washington, 884 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: primarily the President and his administration, still towing the same 885 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,479 Speaker 1: old line on this stuff. But you're right to point 886 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: out there has been a definite opening and a shift 887 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: in terms of how this conversation unfolds. And I do 888 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: think that Israelis are very sensitive and very sort of 889 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: freaked out about that potential reckoning. All right, this is 890 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: some truly bombshell developments here. I don't know if you 891 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 1: guys have been following this. So first we got reports 892 00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: that this Israeli cyber surveillance company More is really here 893 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:05,919 Speaker 1: NSO group, which has a product called Pegasus, which they've 894 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:11,399 Speaker 1: been selling to foreign governments and agencies like not the FBI, 895 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: but the equivalent of the CIA in other countries, that 896 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 1: that Pegasus app essentially allows you to hack into anyone's 897 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: phone and you don't even have to like click on 898 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,720 Speaker 1: a link. If you just receive a message from this group, 899 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,240 Speaker 1: they can then get into your phone and see your messages. 900 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 1: See your photos, all of your data is there. So 901 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: there's long been questions about whether this group, NSO Group, 902 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: which Anita Dun's lobbying shop lobbies for, by the way, anyway, 903 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: whether they were actually policing the people they were selling 904 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: this software to to make sure it was being used appropriately. 905 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: And of course they've always said they continue to say, yes, 906 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 1: of course we you know, we cut contracts if we 907 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: find that they're abusing the software whatsoever. Because this is incredibly, 908 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful lets you into people's phones to see whatever 909 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: you want. Wow. Here's the first news report. Major Israeli 910 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: cyber surveillance company, NSO Group, came under heightened scrutiney Sunday 911 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: after an international alliance of news outlets reported that governments 912 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,960 Speaker 1: using this software targeted journalists, dissidents, and opposition politicians. By 913 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: the way, the Israeli government is also facing renewed international 914 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,839 Speaker 1: pressure for allowing the company to do business with authoritarian 915 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: regimes that use the spyware for purposes that go far 916 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: afield of the company's stated aim, which is supposedly targeting 917 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: terrors and criminals. As the week has gone on, we 918 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: have learned more about exactly who was allegedly targeted with 919 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: this intense surveillance. So we already knew that journalists from 920 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: countries including Azerbaishan, Franz, Hungary, India, and Morocco it appeared 921 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,399 Speaker 1: that they had been hacked. But we also learn that 922 00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: heads of state appear to have been targeted by this software, 923 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,320 Speaker 1: which would again allow whoever is behind it to see 924 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: everything that is going on their phone. This is from 925 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: the Washington Post. Here's who's on the list. Three sitting presidents. 926 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,839 Speaker 1: I think we have a tear sheet for this. France's 927 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: Emmanuel Macron, A Rocks Baham Sally, South Africa's I'm going 928 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: to screw up all these names, Cyril Ramafosa. Three current 929 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: prime ministers from Pakistan, Egypt, Morocco, seven former prime ministers 930 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,720 Speaker 1: and one king, King of Morocco. So heads of state, 931 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: prime ministers, a king, all these people targeted allegedly by 932 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,879 Speaker 1: this Pegasus software. And again they deny it, et cetera, 933 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,919 Speaker 1: et cetera. But Washington Post was able to go in 934 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: and essentially they got this list of phone numbers. This 935 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: leak was like a list of fifty thousand phone numbers 936 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,879 Speaker 1: that were allegedly targeted by this surveillance software. They were 937 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: able through their own journalistic network to confirm that these 938 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: numbers belonged to people like Emmanual Macron, et cetera. Some 939 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: of them even answered the phone right. And then the 940 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,759 Speaker 1: way that they were able to confirm that these phone 941 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 1: numbers appear to have been targeted is in some of 942 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,479 Speaker 1: the lower level people. I don't think they were able 943 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 1: to do this with like the kings and the prime 944 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,160 Speaker 1: ministers and whatever that were targeted, but some of the 945 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,359 Speaker 1: journalists and activists and dissidents who were targeted, they're able 946 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,439 Speaker 1: to examine the phones and see that they had been 947 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: targeted by this software, and that served as confirmation that 948 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,239 Speaker 1: this list is in fact accurate and that all of 949 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,120 Speaker 1: these individuals were being surveilled some of the other high 950 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:40,319 Speaker 1: profile One other high profile case of people who were 951 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: targeted by this peggatist's software is a lot of people 952 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 1: that were around Jamal Kashogi, so people who were close 953 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,240 Speaker 1: to Jamal Kashogi. And we know that the Saudi government 954 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,280 Speaker 1: has purchased this software, it has a contract with Nzo, 955 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 1: So this is really scary for a lot of reasons. 956 00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: It's a combination of you know, business and government, total 957 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 1: intrusion into your life. As we live so much of 958 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: our lives on our phones, journalists have to wonder, like 959 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 1: anything I'm sending here, even in encrypted apps, is not 960 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: really is not really private? How can I possibly do 961 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: my job and not fear for my life if these 962 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,799 Speaker 1: authoritarian governments are able to track my every word at 963 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,360 Speaker 1: every movement. Very scary, very scary indicator not just of 964 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: things to come, but of where things stand today. Because 965 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,360 Speaker 1: by the way, this isn't the only company that is 966 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 1: doing this sort of thing. Oh absolutely. And to your 967 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: point which you previewed there, which is that this firm's 968 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,360 Speaker 1: got deep ties here in Washington. So Biden's former campaign manager, 969 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: Anita Dunn, who now works at the White House and 970 00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 1: Number two Communications AID, well, she used to lobby for 971 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,240 Speaker 1: this firm. So let's put that up there. From Kenneth Vogel, 972 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,920 Speaker 1: he found this that NSO Group was behind the spyware 973 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: aid SKD Knickerbocker, which is Biden advisor, Anita Dunn's firm 974 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: for advice until late two thousand and nineteen. NSA group 975 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,560 Speaker 1: also paid Beacon Global Strategies, which was started by Jeremy Bash. 976 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:17,280 Speaker 1: You might know from MSNBC. Well until early twenty twenty, 977 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 1: he was on the payroll. It said that SKD Knickerbocker, 978 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 1: Anita Dun's firm quote provided communications and business strategy advice. 979 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: So Biden's former campaign manager right before taking the job 980 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 1: on the payroll for this firm. I'm not saying they 981 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: had inside information or whatever, but it goes to show 982 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: you these people weren't a joke. They knew what they 983 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: were doing. You only pay SKD Knickerbocker and Beacon Global 984 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,319 Speaker 1: Strategies if you've got deep pockets and you need real 985 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 1: defense for the military industral componenty, you just need to 986 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 1: have any inside info about you know, just how widespread 987 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,120 Speaker 1: the abuse of this Pegasus software ultimately was. There long 988 00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 1: been a lot of reports and a lot of questions, 989 00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: why are you selling this to the Saudist? Right? You 990 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: think they're going to use this in like a you know, 991 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,640 Speaker 1: in an above completely above board way and a lot 992 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,759 Speaker 1: of doing that. Yeah, And a lot of the countries 993 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,480 Speaker 1: that this was sold to, they keep their client list 994 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 1: secret so that you know, you can't know exactly which countries, 995 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: but a lot of the countries that they were selling to, 996 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,800 Speaker 1: these were not like incredible bastions of democracy and authoritarian 997 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,880 Speaker 1: governments that it's no surprise we're using this in ways 998 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,920 Speaker 1: that it should not ultimately be used. This is a tremendous, 999 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:41,040 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of power being given to some very sketchy 1000 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: players around the globe. And this list of fifty thousand 1001 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,399 Speaker 1: cell phone numbers that was leaked that you know, were 1002 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 1: allegedly targeted and surveiled. This is people across six hundred 1003 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 1: government officials and politicians from thirty four countries, and the 1004 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: names themselves were across fifty different the country. So this 1005 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: is around the globe. Journalists from the AP and the 1006 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,319 Speaker 1: New York Times and CNN who were working overseas their 1007 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,399 Speaker 1: numbers were on this list. So really troubling, really widespread, 1008 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,000 Speaker 1: and frankly, I think we're only going to learn more 1009 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 1: here about what exactly, who exactly was targeted, and what 1010 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,600 Speaker 1: exactly this information was being used for. Yeah, I think 1011 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 1: there's still a lot, there's a lot still left to 1012 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: come out about this. Edward Snowden had said this is 1013 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,480 Speaker 1: going to be one of the biggest league investigations for 1014 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 1: a long time, and it's very possible. There are troves 1015 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,400 Speaker 1: of data and all these people, private communications and more, 1016 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,760 Speaker 1: not just from the journalists, from the heads of state 1017 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,479 Speaker 1: that could come out. It could be a whole wiki 1018 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: leaks to an active idea activists too, which is really 1019 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,200 Speaker 1: troubling and it goes show we need a lot more 1020 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,720 Speaker 1: regulation around this type of stuff. And by the way, Apple, 1021 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,600 Speaker 1: what happened Tim Tim Apple told me that I have 1022 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 1: the most secure phone on Earth, right, and it's like, oh, 1023 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,120 Speaker 1: we don't work with the FBI, but now apparently these 1024 00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: Israelis know how to that call our phone. Yeah, and 1025 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: the will and sell this data to some of the 1026 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,440 Speaker 1: most nefarious people on the planet. So everybody take care 1027 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: of your phone. Shout out to the one guy who 1028 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: once told me that I opened my phone password. Yeah, 1029 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,840 Speaker 1: you're on rising. He's like, I know you're password, you 1030 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,239 Speaker 1: should change. What's so scary about this though, and that 1031 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,040 Speaker 1: the Apple thing is real because they've long couted security 1032 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,600 Speaker 1: procedures and I do think they actually care about it 1033 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,120 Speaker 1: more than oh they definitely more than other companies. But 1034 00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: it didn't matter Android Apple, it didn't matter. And the 1035 00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 1: other thing that's really troubling here is there's not really 1036 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: anything you can do to protect yourself because you know, 1037 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: a lot of these sorts of things. You have to 1038 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,239 Speaker 1: get the sketchy text message, you have to actually click 1039 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,839 Speaker 1: on the link for your phone to be infected. Never 1040 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: do don't do that. But the reports are you don't 1041 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,640 Speaker 1: even have to do that. If you just receive the 1042 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,640 Speaker 1: text message, you're already host. So there's like literally nothing 1043 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,279 Speaker 1: you can do. There's no you know, password hygiene or 1044 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: any of that that you can use to protect yourself 1045 00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,719 Speaker 1: against that, which is as evidence by the fact that 1046 00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, people like Emmanuel Macrolm, who I'm sure you 1047 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: know go does what he can to keep his ut 1048 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: protected that even he would be vulnerable. And again doesn't 1049 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: matter if you're use in signal or what are the 1050 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,319 Speaker 1: other encrypted apps? Still not still not protected, still not 1051 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,560 Speaker 1: truly secret here. So that's what's so scary about is 1052 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,960 Speaker 1: there's like nothing you can do to protect yourself. There 1053 00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,520 Speaker 1: are all these rogue regimes out there that have this 1054 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,720 Speaker 1: type of technology. You're going to use it against anyone 1055 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,600 Speaker 1: that they don't happen to, like who maybe does like 1056 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,640 Speaker 1: a mean segment about them on a YouTube show when 1057 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: they want to go and like go to a wedding 1058 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: and just you know, he meds wedding. Very troubling. Speaking 1059 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: of very troubling, I don't know if you guys have 1060 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,000 Speaker 1: been following this. Workers about eight hundred and fifty workers 1061 00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,920 Speaker 1: for Freedo Lay and to Peka, Kansas have been on 1062 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,439 Speaker 1: strike down for a while and new more and more 1063 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,720 Speaker 1: details are coming out about the conditions that we're facing 1064 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 1: these workers, which are completely outrageous, which led them to 1065 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,120 Speaker 1: engage in this now multi week strike. Let's take a 1066 00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,000 Speaker 1: look at a little bit of one of the most 1067 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,440 Speaker 1: recent videos that came out talking about their plate company says, 1068 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: we're shocked they went on strike. How are you shocked? 1069 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,400 Speaker 1: Did you think it we would go to ninety hours 1070 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:15,280 Speaker 1: before we would hit the streets. Course, over time causes divorces. 1071 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,280 Speaker 1: It caused people to kill themselves that used to work here. Okay, 1072 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,480 Speaker 1: there have been several employees that have killed themselves, Okay, 1073 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,680 Speaker 1: that have worked here over the years. Okay, this is 1074 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 1: a continual thing. It destroys marriages, it destroys families. We 1075 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: have to do something with the suicide shifts. Because to 1076 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,960 Speaker 1: work twelve hours and be off eight and work twelve hours, 1077 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,439 Speaker 1: you got time, travel time and everything. I said, that's 1078 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,880 Speaker 1: a safety risk. Imagine being an employee in here that 1079 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,600 Speaker 1: has not had a day off for five months. That 1080 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,960 Speaker 1: is the reality of what you're seeing. That is the 1081 00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,000 Speaker 1: reality of why you're really seeing the picket over here. 1082 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,640 Speaker 1: Four or five years ago, we had a guy and man, 1083 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,480 Speaker 1: he was working all the time, and he stopped off 1084 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 1: at a rest stop on I seventy and he fell asleep, 1085 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: and you know, he didn't wake up. The company wants 1086 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,440 Speaker 1: to call it a squeeze shift. It's not squeezing about it, 1087 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:36,400 Speaker 1: it's suicide. That says so cool that the point system 1088 00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,960 Speaker 1: is like totally yeah. And for those who are just listening, 1089 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,600 Speaker 1: they had text up on the screen. More perfect Union, 1090 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: by the way, goes they do a great job. That 1091 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: says that you have to earn points in order to 1092 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: get any time off, and in order to earn one point, 1093 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,720 Speaker 1: you have to work thirty one days straight in a row. 1094 00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 1: So the details here are just stunningly horrific. NPR also 1095 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,800 Speaker 1: talked about those the squeeze shifts is what the company 1096 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,800 Speaker 1: wants to call them, the workers calm suicide shifts. What 1097 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,000 Speaker 1: that means is worker's clock in for a seven am 1098 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,640 Speaker 1: to three pm shift. Then they're forced to work four 1099 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,240 Speaker 1: hours of overtime, so you're seven am to seven pm. 1100 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: Then the company will turn you right around and bring 1101 01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: you in at three o'clock in the morning, so you 1102 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 1: got eight hours to go home, shower, spend time with 1103 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,320 Speaker 1: your kids, with your family, get some sleep, and get 1104 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,640 Speaker 1: back to work. Some of these workers say that they've 1105 01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:33,919 Speaker 1: worked every single day for five months straight. Okay, those 1106 01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: are the type of conditions. One worker, Mark McCarter, a 1107 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 1: fifty nine year old palletizer and union steward at the 1108 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 1: plant who's worked there for thirty seven years. He told Weiss, 1109 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,919 Speaker 1: it seems like I go to one funeral a year 1110 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,240 Speaker 1: for someone who's had a heart attack at work, or 1111 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,480 Speaker 1: someone who went home to their barn and shot themselves 1112 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,120 Speaker 1: in the head or hung themselves. Forced to overtime interferes 1113 01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,600 Speaker 1: with your health and your household, leads to fights on 1114 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the shop floor. Worker get in arguments because they're cranky 1115 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,000 Speaker 1: and they're mad, they're exhausted. Others have spoken of divorces 1116 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,280 Speaker 1: caused by the schedule, as they said in that video. 1117 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:10,440 Speaker 1: And just to tell you that this isn't just like 1118 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: the workers aren't just making this up out of them 1119 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,680 Speaker 1: on a whole cloth OSHA Occupational Safety and Health Administration 1120 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,959 Speaker 1: right now investigating an incident that took place in May 1121 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 1: at the facility. They've previously find the plant for cases 1122 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,600 Speaker 1: involving amputation and vehicular accidents. One of the things that 1123 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: was alleged by the workers that they literally had someone 1124 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 1: drop dead at the plant and they just management just 1125 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,320 Speaker 1: took the person off and put someone else in their 1126 01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,320 Speaker 1: place and kept on going. These are insane conditions. No 1127 01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,240 Speaker 1: air conditioning. By the way, as the climate gets hotter 1128 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,640 Speaker 1: and hotter and hotter. One person said at seven a 1129 01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: m or warehouses one hundred degrees. You got cooks in 1130 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the kitchen on the friars that are one hundred and 1131 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,560 Speaker 1: thirty or one hundred and forty degrees making chips. Meanwhile, 1132 01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: the managers who are sitting at their desk, well, they've 1133 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,880 Speaker 1: got air conditioning, but these workers are sweating it out 1134 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,760 Speaker 1: one hundred degree plus conditions. Absolutely outrageous that anyone is 1135 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,840 Speaker 1: treated this way in America. It's totally nuts. And this 1136 01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,720 Speaker 1: is to peak of Kansas. I mean gets hot, right, 1137 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: I mean especially in the summer. I can't believe they 1138 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,680 Speaker 1: don't have air conditioning. They were saying some of these 1139 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,640 Speaker 1: guys that it's easier to be on the picket line 1140 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,440 Speaker 1: in ninety degree heat than it is to be in 1141 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 1: the factory, because the factory is even hotter. So think 1142 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,600 Speaker 1: about it. They'd rather sit in the baking sun for 1143 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,760 Speaker 1: twelve hours a day than be a in a warehouse 1144 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,520 Speaker 1: which is baking at one hundred and forty degrees. And 1145 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,040 Speaker 1: second shifts just what is it? No, it's not second 1146 01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,600 Speaker 1: third shift work is no joke. You know, people who 1147 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: work third shift are disproportionately more likely to have heart disease, 1148 01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,680 Speaker 1: heart attacks, they have a higher rate of death. Working 1149 01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,520 Speaker 1: at those hours is not good for you, like period. 1150 01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,680 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, you know, people have a choice 1151 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,600 Speaker 1: or whatever, but intentionally putting people in a back to 1152 01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,160 Speaker 1: back stressful situation, you are asking to basically, if you're 1153 01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,600 Speaker 1: you know, already on the brink, you're going to have 1154 01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,520 Speaker 1: a heart attack like that amount of stress on your body. 1155 01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: It just can't happen. It doesn't work that way. And 1156 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,600 Speaker 1: Freedo Lay which owned by PepsiCo, they had a banner 1157 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,240 Speaker 1: year during the pandemic. They made more money than ever. Certainly, 1158 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,200 Speaker 1: the workers here say that they are dramatically understaffed, that's 1159 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,200 Speaker 1: what's leading to these insane hours and relentless work schedules 1160 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 1: that are leading to death and divorce and all sorts 1161 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:22,440 Speaker 1: of other health effects that are truly horrendous. And I mean, 1162 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,200 Speaker 1: I think that just shows you everything about what happened 1163 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,680 Speaker 1: over this past year. You had a few people who 1164 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,680 Speaker 1: did extraordinarily well, better than they've ever done before, and 1165 01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: you had a lot of people who were there in 1166 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,160 Speaker 1: the factories, there in the hospitals, there in the restaurants. 1167 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,320 Speaker 1: They're trying to make this whole thing stay together and 1168 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:46,240 Speaker 1: oftentimes getting nothing but pain and punishment for it. The workers, 1169 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,600 Speaker 1: if you want to show solidarity with them, they're asking 1170 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: that you not purchase freeo lay products. So it can 1171 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,600 Speaker 1: go look at the type of chips that they make. 1172 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 1: It's Dorito's and Free Doo's and maybe Cheetos. I don't know, 1173 01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,120 Speaker 1: do they all rhyme, but anyway, look up the list 1174 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,440 Speaker 1: of what sort of chip they're making their The workers 1175 01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 1: are asking some they don't always do that, like the 1176 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Amazon workers who re unionizing didn't want people to boycott 1177 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,120 Speaker 1: Amazon specifically, but these workers are asking for that. So 1178 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,120 Speaker 1: keep that in mind if you want to show solidarity 1179 01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,640 Speaker 1: It's right includes Taco Bell too for all those out there. Wow, 1180 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:16,840 Speaker 1: you guys must really like listening to our voices. Well, 1181 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,840 Speaker 1: I know this is annoying. Instead of making you listen 1182 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,400 Speaker 1: to a Viagric commercial. When you're done, check out the 1183 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,200 Speaker 1: other podcast I do with Marshal Kassoff called The Realignment. 1184 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,680 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about the deeper issues that are changing, 1185 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,800 Speaker 1: realigning in American society. You always need more Crystal and 1186 01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,800 Speaker 1: Zag in your daily lives. Take care, guys, All right, Crystal, 1187 01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 1: what are you taking a look at today? Well, Jeff 1188 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,600 Speaker 1: Bezos successfully concluded his trip to fake space, as I 1189 01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,840 Speaker 1: call it, and what I would be lacking in journalistic 1190 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 1: credibility if I did not describe as a penis shaped rocket. 1191 01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,560 Speaker 1: Freud might be able to tell us one day what 1192 01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,480 Speaker 1: that was all about. Anyway, the media swooned, delighting in 1193 01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 1: the incredible accomplishment of our foremost global or overload lord, 1194 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,200 Speaker 1: spawning a thousand hot takes just like that, and people 1195 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,640 Speaker 1: will criticize what I'm about to say. The young man 1196 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,520 Speaker 1: sitting there, excited as he was, that's one list black 1197 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,560 Speaker 1: kid on a corner somewhere getting ready to use a weapon. 1198 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry what. I'm sure billionaire joy rides are exactly 1199 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,880 Speaker 1: the thing to combat a nationwide spike and crime. It 1200 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,120 Speaker 1: was such an amazing day and such a bold accomplishment. 1201 01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,120 Speaker 1: Even Bezos's personal newspaper, The Washington Post, proclaimed it a 1202 01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:26,760 Speaker 1: bold success. Naturally, they invested significant journalistic resources and covering 1203 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,400 Speaker 1: the historic day live, announcing in a big press release 1204 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,840 Speaker 1: that they'd be joining up with Discovery Network to detail 1205 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,600 Speaker 1: every moment. Upon landing, Bezos announced he was giving one 1206 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,320 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars each to Jose Andres and Van Jones 1207 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,720 Speaker 1: for some reason, telling them they can do whatever they 1208 01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,320 Speaker 1: like philanthropically with that money. They could give it to 1209 01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,640 Speaker 1: their own charity, or they could divide it up. Let 1210 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: me just say that if your commentary and activism are 1211 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,840 Speaker 1: safe enough for Jeff Bezos to invest one hundred million 1212 01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 1: dollars in, then might be time to rethink just how 1213 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 1: much anything you say or do actually challenges a single 1214 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,120 Speaker 1: power structure. As the one and only Iron Meosa Frompong 1215 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,960 Speaker 1: put it to me, the big problem is the narrative 1216 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:06,720 Speaker 1: that the goal of all activism is to get some 1217 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,560 Speaker 1: rich asshole to give you money. Anyway, cool that a 1218 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,480 Speaker 1: few people in our society have so much money that 1219 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,800 Speaker 1: they can just casually decide which cable news pundits are 1220 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,040 Speaker 1: worth a hundred million dollar investments and give them away 1221 01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:20,240 Speaker 1: like Oprah giving out cars. As for Bezos's comments upon landing, 1222 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,800 Speaker 1: he took a lot of criticism but unpopular opinion here. Personally, 1223 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,040 Speaker 1: I loved him. I loved them because they were so 1224 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,840 Speaker 1: unintentionally honest and really gave away the entire game. I also, 1225 01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:37,120 Speaker 1: I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon 1226 01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: customer because you guys paid for all of this, so seriously, 1227 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,080 Speaker 1: for every Amazon customer out there and every Amazon employee, 1228 01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,320 Speaker 1: thank you from the bottom of my heart very much. 1229 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:54,680 Speaker 1: It's very appreciated. In that one sentence, he really explained 1230 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,520 Speaker 1: to everything did me that all of the abuses of Amazon, 1231 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,520 Speaker 1: the workers treated like disposable call us and tracked like criminals, 1232 01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,640 Speaker 1: the wages stolen and the health rob the decimation of 1233 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:09,200 Speaker 1: countless small businesses, the aggressive and illegal union busting, the 1234 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,680 Speaker 1: drivers pushed so hard they couldn't even stop to go 1235 01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 1: to the bathroom. All of it was about fueling the 1236 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,200 Speaker 1: narcissism and ego of one man. There is no other goal. 1237 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,320 Speaker 1: All of those human beings brutalized and towns crushed were 1238 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,520 Speaker 1: just vessels for Bezos to fulfill his ambition. Congratulations everyone, 1239 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,240 Speaker 1: you did it. And if that's not enough, there's also 1240 01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,440 Speaker 1: the small matter that, while he commands so many of 1241 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,960 Speaker 1: the nation's resources that has benefited from them more than 1242 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,680 Speaker 1: any human being in history, he pays virtually nothing in taxes. 1243 01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,760 Speaker 1: And if that's also not enough, he also feels free 1244 01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,520 Speaker 1: to see government goodies, bailon's breaks, and exemptions from labor 1245 01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:45,640 Speaker 1: law at every turn. He is the grifter to end 1246 01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,840 Speaker 1: all grifters. Worth noting here that Amazon has been paying 1247 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,000 Speaker 1: big bucks to lobbyist Jeff Roschetti in the past few months. 1248 01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: Oh just so happens to be the brother of longtime 1249 01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:01,120 Speaker 1: top Biden aids Steve Roschetti. Just a wacky co incidents there, guys. 1250 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,640 Speaker 1: What a small world. But while his fake space flight 1251 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,440 Speaker 1: is over, Bezos is far from done. Oh No, Amazon's 1252 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,600 Speaker 1: world domination was not enough. Jeff's got his eyes on 1253 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,560 Speaker 1: a much bigger and even more dystopian goal. In an 1254 01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,519 Speaker 1: interview with MSNBC's own corporate overlord, Whisper Stephanie Rule, he 1255 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:20,599 Speaker 1: had this to say about how we should go about 1256 01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:24,040 Speaker 1: fighting climate change. We need to take all heavy industry, 1257 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,719 Speaker 1: all polluting industry, and move it into space and keep 1258 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,519 Speaker 1: Earth as this beautiful gem of a planet that it 1259 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,479 Speaker 1: is now. That's going to take decades and decades to achieve, 1260 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,840 Speaker 1: but you have to start, and big things start with 1261 01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,599 Speaker 1: small steps. I'm sorry, what so your idea for dealing 1262 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,280 Speaker 1: with the climate crisis isn't actually to change anything, but 1263 01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,920 Speaker 1: just to move it all into space. And this is 1264 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,800 Speaker 1: accepted uncritically by the media. But somehow the Green New 1265 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,200 Speaker 1: Deal is insane and utopian. It actually makes perfect sense, 1266 01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,120 Speaker 1: as doctor Zeus wrote in the Lorax Businesses, business and 1267 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,519 Speaker 1: business must grow now that the Earth has been used 1268 01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,080 Speaker 1: in abuse. Rather than doing anything differently, we could just 1269 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,200 Speaker 1: move to a new market, a brave new world of 1270 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:05,400 Speaker 1: exploitation weights brought to you by Amazon, Virgin Galactic, and Tesla. 1271 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,800 Speaker 1: It is the answer to all of our prayers. Bezos's 1272 01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,400 Speaker 1: spaceflight was decades in the making. In order for it 1273 01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,680 Speaker 1: all to come together, you needed decades of increasing inequality 1274 01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,800 Speaker 1: and a new gilded age that has funneled even more 1275 01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,160 Speaker 1: money to the tippy top than the last Gilded age. 1276 01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,600 Speaker 1: You need years of privatization and corporate power becoming so 1277 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,320 Speaker 1: normalized that no one is scandalized by private citizens engaging 1278 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,080 Speaker 1: for ego aggrandizement and activities that are meant to be 1279 01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,880 Speaker 1: done for the collective good. You needed generations of selling 1280 01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,840 Speaker 1: off public goods and stripping away government capacities such that 1281 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,880 Speaker 1: anyone could be wowed by billionaires repeating the accomplishments of 1282 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,160 Speaker 1: government bureaucracts sixty years ago. It all had to go 1283 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,080 Speaker 1: just right for this pinnacle moment of radical narcissism as 1284 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,879 Speaker 1: a public spectacle funded by the exploitation of millions of workers. 1285 01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:55,559 Speaker 1: Bravo everyone, Bravo that moment when he was like, thanks 1286 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: to the Amazon workers. One more thing, I promise. Just 1287 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,040 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure you knew about my podcast with 1288 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,920 Speaker 1: Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, where we 1289 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,439 Speaker 1: do long form interviews with people like Nom Chomsky, Cornell West, 1290 01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:11,000 Speaker 1: and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any podcast platform, 1291 01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,600 Speaker 1: or you can subscribe over on substack to get the 1292 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,080 Speaker 1: video a day early. We're gonna stop bugging you now. 1293 01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,200 Speaker 1: Enjoy anyway, Ziger, what are you looking at? Well? A 1294 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,400 Speaker 1: lot of people ask why we cover the media so 1295 01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,760 Speaker 1: much here at breaking points, and it isn't simply to 1296 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,879 Speaker 1: dunk on them, as fun as that is. It's because 1297 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,120 Speaker 1: mass media sets the term for the debate. It's an 1298 01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 1: incredibly astute point you're going to hear later today from 1299 01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,799 Speaker 1: Rachel Bovard that the control of the narrative is everything. 1300 01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:37,960 Speaker 1: As we found out with the war in Iraq, with 1301 01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,600 Speaker 1: Russiagate and more, something does not in fact have to 1302 01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:46,679 Speaker 1: be true in order to massively impact US politics, US policy, 1303 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,280 Speaker 1: and literal weapons of war. Thus, now, in a time 1304 01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,080 Speaker 1: of relative political calm, at least on the surface level, 1305 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,960 Speaker 1: the war over who is allowed to define the narrative 1306 01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,719 Speaker 1: and who is not is the great battle of the age. 1307 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,200 Speaker 1: It's all fighting right now that leads up to the 1308 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,160 Speaker 1: big one, Like with COVID, whatever the big event that 1309 01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,280 Speaker 1: comes next. Those legitimized get to set the terms of 1310 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:12,040 Speaker 1: the debate then and the narrative. Those not legitimized will 1311 01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,600 Speaker 1: sit on the sidelines screaming into the void. It's with 1312 01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,200 Speaker 1: that mindset that I asked that you hold on as 1313 01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,599 Speaker 1: we delve into this story because it involves Ben Shapiro. 1314 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 1: Now it's not a secret or a surprise to most 1315 01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,200 Speaker 1: of you. We're not big Ben Shapiro stands over here. 1316 01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,479 Speaker 1: We don't see eye to eye on a lot whenever 1317 01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,559 Speaker 1: it comes to domestic political economy. But that being said, 1318 01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,280 Speaker 1: he's an American citizen and a lot of people like 1319 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,120 Speaker 1: what he has to say, So who am I to 1320 01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:40,520 Speaker 1: decide whether he gets to make a living or not. Unfortunately, 1321 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,320 Speaker 1: our friends over at NPR disagreed and they wrote an 1322 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,439 Speaker 1: embarrassing but important hit job on Shapiro that is very 1323 01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:51,200 Speaker 1: important to delve into. The headline is this outrage as 1324 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,960 Speaker 1: a business model? How Ben Shapiro is using Facebook to 1325 01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,559 Speaker 1: build an empire? Now the headline Blair's Okay, I already 1326 01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,559 Speaker 1: know where this one's going to go, but let's delve further. 1327 01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:04,120 Speaker 1: The piece opens by noting that Shapiro routinely beats mainstream 1328 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,400 Speaker 1: media outlets on Facebook with the supposition that he practices 1329 01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,920 Speaker 1: outrage porn and that they do not. Obviously, that's absurd. 1330 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,599 Speaker 1: The truth is that both of them practice outrage porn. 1331 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,839 Speaker 1: But look, it's a free country. The complaint from NPR 1332 01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,000 Speaker 1: and much of the mainstream media is this only they 1333 01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,880 Speaker 1: are the ones who should be allowed to practice outrage porn. 1334 01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:26,200 Speaker 1: They must be able to set the narrative, not anyone else. 1335 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,960 Speaker 1: The canard that Facebook is rigged because Ben Shapiro and 1336 01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:33,439 Speaker 1: Dan Bongino do well there is something that has annoyed 1337 01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,200 Speaker 1: me for a long time. The reason Ben Shapiro and 1338 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,720 Speaker 1: Dan Bongino do better on Facebook than liberal outlets is 1339 01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,840 Speaker 1: because literally the entire rest of the media ecosystem, except 1340 01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,360 Speaker 1: for Fox, is liberal. You don't have a lot of 1341 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:48,679 Speaker 1: choices for left or you have a ton of choices 1342 01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,840 Speaker 1: for left leaning content. You don't have a lot of 1343 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,599 Speaker 1: choices for right wing content social media like Facebook and YouTube. 1344 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,679 Speaker 1: Thus they do better on those specific platforms. It seems simple, 1345 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,599 Speaker 1: and yet over and over again, liberal outlets like NPR 1346 01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,800 Speaker 1: and now even the White House portray Facebook as some 1347 01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:10,280 Speaker 1: sort of conservative platform, which is patently ridiculous. My particular 1348 01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,120 Speaker 1: favorite part is when NPR says that the Daily Wire 1349 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,840 Speaker 1: quote doesn't normally include falsehoods, so they can't pin them 1350 01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,840 Speaker 1: as some misinformation site. Instead, they say this quote by 1351 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: only covering specific stories that bolster the conservative agenda, such 1352 01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,960 Speaker 1: as negative reports about socialist countries and polarizing ones about 1353 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,839 Speaker 1: race and sexuality issues, and only including certain facts, readers 1354 01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,240 Speaker 1: will come away from the Daily Wire's content with the 1355 01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:37,120 Speaker 1: impression that the Republican politicians can do a little wrong 1356 01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:40,400 Speaker 1: and cancel cultures amongst the nation's greatest threats. They then 1357 01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,680 Speaker 1: quote some so called expert who says they tend not 1358 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,439 Speaker 1: to provide context for information they're providing, and they end 1359 01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,920 Speaker 1: with this money quote. If you've stripped enough context away, 1360 01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:56,320 Speaker 1: any piece of truth can become a piece of misinformation. 1361 01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,800 Speaker 1: This is the most insane definition of misinformation I've ever heard. 1362 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,559 Speaker 1: If that's the standard, well then the whole mainstream media 1363 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,599 Speaker 1: is guilty of this. In almost every post they write, 1364 01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,479 Speaker 1: they're consistently lack contexts, leave out relevant bits in order 1365 01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,439 Speaker 1: to support their narrative. It's why I always say what 1366 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,599 Speaker 1: they choose not to show you is more important than 1367 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,080 Speaker 1: what they choose to show you. All of this is 1368 01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,360 Speaker 1: about power, and the more you look, the more absurd 1369 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:28,240 Speaker 1: the critique gets. As journalist Matt Taiedi points out, NPR 1370 01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,320 Speaker 1: is literally in the same game as Ben Shapiro. Look 1371 01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,559 Speaker 1: at the smattering of articles Taiedi pulls together from recent 1372 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,160 Speaker 1: NPR pieces like black TikTok creators are on strike to 1373 01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,920 Speaker 1: protest a credit for their work or geo catching, while 1374 01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:46,800 Speaker 1: black Outdoor pastime reveals racism and bias. Or my personal favorite, 1375 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,720 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is a non racist. It's time for him 1376 01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:54,400 Speaker 1: to be anti racist. Tayidi puts it particularly well. Quote 1377 01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,360 Speaker 1: NPR in the last year has committed itself to a 1378 01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,559 Speaker 1: silver sliver of a sliver of a sliver of the 1379 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:05,160 Speaker 1: most more tenditious, humor depriving, jargon obsessed segment of American society. 1380 01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,600 Speaker 1: Yet without any irony, Yesterday's Peace still has made a 1381 01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:13,400 Speaker 1: deadpan complaint about Shapiro's habit of telling people what their 1382 01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,720 Speaker 1: opinion should be and speaking in buzzwords. They are just 1383 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,439 Speaker 1: as guilty. They just want to be the only ones 1384 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,320 Speaker 1: allowed to play the game. I don't know what the 1385 01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,040 Speaker 1: next big story will be. Maybe it's still COVID, maybe 1386 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,960 Speaker 1: something else. I know this, our nation suffered greatly during 1387 01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,320 Speaker 1: the Trump years from having a boomlet for mainstream media. 1388 01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,880 Speaker 1: They're monopoly on discourse. We should fight like hell to 1389 01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,040 Speaker 1: maintain whatever little oases that we might have here in 1390 01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:43,000 Speaker 1: the independence sphere, even if we do not ideologically agree, 1391 01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:45,439 Speaker 1: because if they can shut down one place, they can 1392 01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:48,360 Speaker 1: shut them all down. How good was that? Quote Crystal 1393 01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:53,200 Speaker 1: from the Misinformation Joining US Now Policy director at the 1394 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,400 Speaker 1: Conservative Partnership INDUSTRTE. Rachel Bovard, longtime friend of the show. 1395 01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,600 Speaker 1: It's good to see you, Rachel in first. Great to 1396 01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,000 Speaker 1: see you guys, Glad to be here. I missed you, Okay. 1397 01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,559 Speaker 1: So the moment that all this happened down with the 1398 01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,240 Speaker 1: White House and Facebook, I got to call Rachel. We 1399 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,320 Speaker 1: got to get her perspective. You wrote an interesting piece 1400 01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,600 Speaker 1: in the Federalist. Let's put that up there on the 1401 01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,599 Speaker 1: screen about the White House bids for power and more. 1402 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,799 Speaker 1: Just tell us a little bit about what the argument 1403 01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,280 Speaker 1: that you were making here. Biden administration admits to helping 1404 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,120 Speaker 1: control what you're allowed to know. So this is something 1405 01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:27,000 Speaker 1: that I think long time sort of skeptics of social 1406 01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,200 Speaker 1: media have been thinking, right that, you know, anytime there's 1407 01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,080 Speaker 1: a sort of politically motivated censorship campaign, that it's coming 1408 01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:37,120 Speaker 1: from political actors. But what we saw just last week 1409 01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:40,720 Speaker 1: was the White House basically, very casually admit to doing this. 1410 01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,479 Speaker 1: And I think what was so striking about it is 1411 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:45,880 Speaker 1: how casual it was. It was a very flippantant mission. 1412 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,920 Speaker 1: But also it's saying out loud what we have always known, 1413 01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,920 Speaker 1: which is the massive power of these speech platforms. Is 1414 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:55,920 Speaker 1: irresistible to government, and that is the case for both parties. 1415 01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Because you saw Donald Trump do this right when you 1416 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,640 Speaker 1: saw the protest going on and all that sort of 1417 01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,360 Speaker 1: statues being pulled down, he made a very aggressive effort 1418 01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,920 Speaker 1: to have Facebook remove that content as well. It's a 1419 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,920 Speaker 1: great one. This is all about narrative control, right, And 1420 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:10,880 Speaker 1: I think the other thing that was really interesting about 1421 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,960 Speaker 1: it was that for Jensaki and the Biden White House 1422 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:16,920 Speaker 1: to go after Facebook really is an admission of what 1423 01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,679 Speaker 1: these platforms are, right. They're not you know, yes, they're 1424 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,800 Speaker 1: private entities, but they are also now central forums for 1425 01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,760 Speaker 1: our speech and controlling what happens there is central and 1426 01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:29,640 Speaker 1: important to achieving political goals, and so for her to 1427 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:31,280 Speaker 1: say that out loud, I think tells you what these 1428 01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,280 Speaker 1: platforms actually are, which is essential corridors of speech. I 1429 01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,920 Speaker 1: really like the way that you put that, and especially 1430 01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,880 Speaker 1: with the Trump example, because I think Republicans have been 1431 01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: a lot politically smarter in framing their desire for control 1432 01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,680 Speaker 1: over these platforms as free speech, which is you know, 1433 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,240 Speaker 1: deeply American principle, and people can get behind that in 1434 01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:52,120 Speaker 1: their anti censorship, but actually this is just a struggle 1435 01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:53,720 Speaker 1: for control. And so what I've tried to say to 1436 01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,479 Speaker 1: people is like, Okay, you might be cool. You might 1437 01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,280 Speaker 1: love Jensaki thinks she's a queen, right, you might love 1438 01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,880 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and be totally like, we got to crack 1439 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,320 Speaker 1: down on this vaccine misinformation, et cetera, et cetera. Are 1440 01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:08,519 Speaker 1: you cool with Donald Trump if he gets back in 1441 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,479 Speaker 1: office having that same power, Because one thing we know 1442 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,080 Speaker 1: is once a power is claimed by the executive branch, 1443 01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,519 Speaker 1: it is never ever relinquished. So speak a little bit 1444 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 1: more to that. And also, what do we actually know 1445 01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,959 Speaker 1: specifically about their engagement with Facebook and how much Facebook 1446 01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,880 Speaker 1: is listening to them. So what we know is that 1447 01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:34,639 Speaker 1: the White House is flagging what Jensaki called problematic posts. 1448 01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:36,560 Speaker 1: And what was interesting was to watch the evolution of 1449 01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:40,120 Speaker 1: this because on Thursday it was just about vaccine misinformation. 1450 01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:42,960 Speaker 1: It was about twelve users you know, on Facebook, sprendan whatever, 1451 01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,360 Speaker 1: sixty percent on the misinformation. We're flagging that Facebook confirm 1452 01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,320 Speaker 1: they've been in private meetings with the Surgeon General and 1453 01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:51,880 Speaker 1: that conversation, those conversations been on going. He issued this 1454 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,439 Speaker 1: like twenty two page guidance telling social media platforms to 1455 01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,000 Speaker 1: punish you know users that engage in this behavior. By Friday, 1456 01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,639 Speaker 1: that head of all into the cross platform banning of users. 1457 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,360 Speaker 1: If you know, Jensaki very clearly said, if you know 1458 01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,120 Speaker 1: you're misbehaving on one platform, you should be banned on 1459 01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:11,200 Speaker 1: all the other platforms too. And it also evolved from 1460 01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:16,960 Speaker 1: just vaccine misinformation to narrative control. Right, people combating the 1461 01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,080 Speaker 1: government narrative about COVID nineteen. And that tells you what 1462 01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,160 Speaker 1: this really is. And the power of these platforms is 1463 01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:25,120 Speaker 1: controlling the national narrative. And this is sort of to 1464 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,000 Speaker 1: take a philosophic bent to it, this goes back to 1465 01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:30,600 Speaker 1: what we have known for centuries. Right, control of the 1466 01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:35,639 Speaker 1: national narrative is central to controlling everything else. Right, direction 1467 01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:39,080 Speaker 1: of resources, capital weapons, all of that is secondary to 1468 01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,360 Speaker 1: control of the narrative. And you know, we lived through 1469 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,280 Speaker 1: a rack, we live through up it's a mass destruction. 1470 01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,040 Speaker 1: That is the clearest example I can think of most 1471 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,840 Speaker 1: recently anyway, the analog of controlling the national narrative, you know, 1472 01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,679 Speaker 1: which directs country action. That's where I got scared there, Rachel, 1473 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,160 Speaker 1: is when because for a long time we both have 1474 01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,760 Speaker 1: seen this, which is like, look, get DP platform, not Facebook, 1475 01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,840 Speaker 1: We're still on Twitter. You can still go on gab 1476 01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,200 Speaker 1: or email or whatever. And she was just straight up like, 1477 01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:06,559 Speaker 1: if you're banned from one platform, you've banned from everything. 1478 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,000 Speaker 1: And I was like, holy crap. I mean that is 1479 01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,679 Speaker 1: that's across the rubicon moment. And to your point about 1480 01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, essential being speech and all that, the question 1481 01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,439 Speaker 1: always comes to my mind is Okay, well, now what 1482 01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:20,040 Speaker 1: like what do we do about it? I know you 1483 01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:22,120 Speaker 1: and I are doing a panel this weekend, and I 1484 01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,120 Speaker 1: sent you guys to questions being like like, actually, though, 1485 01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:28,360 Speaker 1: what should be done? It is break like, is breaking 1486 01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:30,559 Speaker 1: up Facebook going to do anything about this? Because it 1487 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:34,639 Speaker 1: just seems that hold an ideological control and who even 1488 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,160 Speaker 1: if you do break up Facebook, it seems to me 1489 01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,320 Speaker 1: Jen Zaki and ron Klaan would still call them and 1490 01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:40,559 Speaker 1: tell them, Yeah, what to do? I don't know, Like, 1491 01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,640 Speaker 1: what is there to be done here? No, it's a 1492 01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:44,920 Speaker 1: great question, and I think you know, the premise for 1493 01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,040 Speaker 1: answering it starts with the fact that all of this power, 1494 01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:52,160 Speaker 1: this censorship control, speech control, it's all downstream of market power. 1495 01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,280 Speaker 1: The only reason it's worthwhile for the government to engage 1496 01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:57,040 Speaker 1: with Facebook in this way is because it's as big 1497 01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:58,880 Speaker 1: as it is, it's because it has as much control 1498 01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,040 Speaker 1: as it does. And the example I use in the 1499 01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,559 Speaker 1: piece is, look, if Google controlled thirty percent of the market, 1500 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,439 Speaker 1: it's a much different question than them controlling ninety percent 1501 01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,080 Speaker 1: of the flow of information in America, because then Google 1502 01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:12,280 Speaker 1: can't co opt the narrative, and neither can the government 1503 01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,639 Speaker 1: by co opting Google. So I think anti trust enforcement, 1504 01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,559 Speaker 1: robust anti trust enforcement, breaking up the market power of 1505 01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,160 Speaker 1: these companies is central to achieving this goal. But it's 1506 01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:24,559 Speaker 1: not enough to your point, So I think it also 1507 01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,640 Speaker 1: has to be linked with acknowledging the idea that the 1508 01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:30,519 Speaker 1: power that these companies have is all structural. It's not 1509 01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,360 Speaker 1: just market power. It's the control they have of the 1510 01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:36,559 Speaker 1: ad markets, it's everything they do with your data. It's 1511 01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,360 Speaker 1: the fact that their entire business model is built around 1512 01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,400 Speaker 1: the promotion of toxic content. We all think that these 1513 01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,600 Speaker 1: platforms are just speech platforms, but in reality, they're just 1514 01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:50,800 Speaker 1: digital ad agencies. They're communications firms, and their focus isn't 1515 01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:54,880 Speaker 1: your speech. It's about amplifying whatever makes them money. And 1516 01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,000 Speaker 1: so our public policy has to address both. It can't 1517 01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:59,960 Speaker 1: just be anti trusted, it has to also be addressed 1518 01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:02,920 Speaker 1: the business model of these companies and if they serve 1519 01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:06,479 Speaker 1: really as communication utilities that are essential to how we 1520 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,760 Speaker 1: all live together at this point, do there need to 1521 01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,439 Speaker 1: be regulations around that, right? Because I mean, one of 1522 01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:13,960 Speaker 1: the things we see is it's not like these platforms 1523 01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:18,160 Speaker 1: are content neutral, right, with very few exceptions. You know, 1524 01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,759 Speaker 1: we certainly see it on YouTube, whatever the algorithm decides 1525 01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,720 Speaker 1: to promote is gonna whoa, A lot of people are 1526 01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,400 Speaker 1: gonna watch it, and whatever they decide to suppress, oh weird, 1527 01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:31,040 Speaker 1: nobody watched this particular clip. Certainly Facebook, that's the case. 1528 01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,599 Speaker 1: So this idea that they're just like these neutral platforms 1529 01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,160 Speaker 1: to start with, I think is really silly. Let me 1530 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:41,439 Speaker 1: ask you about this. Though we covered here Matt Stoller's 1531 01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,200 Speaker 1: piece about the antitrust executive orders coming out of the 1532 01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,240 Speaker 1: Biden administration. They put some decent people in place, Lenakan 1533 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: being primary among them, although and other key positions they 1534 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,680 Speaker 1: haven't even put someone in, which is kind of like 1535 01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,960 Speaker 1: suggests maybe they're not as serious about this new direction 1536 01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,519 Speaker 1: of the government as one may like them to be. 1537 01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,799 Speaker 1: But as someone who's looking at this from a concern perspective, 1538 01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,439 Speaker 1: what did you think of some of those executive orders 1539 01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:06,360 Speaker 1: and this new direction that Biden at least claims to 1540 01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:07,920 Speaker 1: want to move the federal government and in terms of 1541 01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: anti trust. So I'm glad there's a federal focus on 1542 01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,760 Speaker 1: this because you know what we've seen. You know, we 1543 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:15,839 Speaker 1: talk a lot about the concentration in the tech markets, 1544 01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:19,200 Speaker 1: but anyone paying attention knows concentration is everywhere, and that 1545 01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,479 Speaker 1: has been a specific choice of our policies. So I'm 1546 01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,960 Speaker 1: encouraged by the focus on it. From where I sit 1547 01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,320 Speaker 1: on the right of center, what I want is more 1548 01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,840 Speaker 1: anti trust enforcement. I think anti trust is superior in 1549 01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:34,160 Speaker 1: many ways to sort of a regulatory approach, because it's 1550 01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:37,760 Speaker 1: due process, it's targeted, it's specific. You have to go 1551 01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,839 Speaker 1: through a very serious investigation to get at the specific 1552 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,760 Speaker 1: behaviors that are an issue. What I'm concerned about with 1553 01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,640 Speaker 1: the Biden order is that, you know, it talks a 1554 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,040 Speaker 1: big game about anti trust enforcement, but it's just window 1555 01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,160 Speaker 1: dressing for a lot of sort of specially tailored special 1556 01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:54,599 Speaker 1: interest regulatory framework. That is what I don't want to see. Now, 1557 01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,000 Speaker 1: give me an example there. Well, So instead of bringing 1558 01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,519 Speaker 1: more cases, right, more anti trust enforcement cases, you're getting 1559 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,439 Speaker 1: regulations on industry, which we all know in many many 1560 01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: of these agencies work with, you know, the already entrenched 1561 01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,600 Speaker 1: interest to entrench what they want over and above smaller competitors. 1562 01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,640 Speaker 1: That's my fear with regulation. It doesn't have to be 1563 01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,280 Speaker 1: that way, but in many times, many times, it always is. 1564 01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,759 Speaker 1: And so I would love to see more enforcement cases brought, 1565 01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, through the FTC, through the DJ's Anti Trust division, 1566 01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:25,120 Speaker 1: which doesn't have a head yet Righten hasn't pointed anyone there. 1567 01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,000 Speaker 1: And that's the real sort of weapon of anti trust 1568 01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:31,200 Speaker 1: is that agency. If it goes in that direction, you 1569 01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:33,080 Speaker 1: will hear praise from me because I think that's the 1570 01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,960 Speaker 1: way to go. I think that's important. I think, Rachel, 1571 01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,160 Speaker 1: here's the big question. I also see there's a lot 1572 01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:40,080 Speaker 1: of dreams about left right alliance on this. I just 1573 01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,519 Speaker 1: don't see it. And the reason why is if you 1574 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:46,160 Speaker 1: look at the Democrats who are calling for more Facebook regulation, 1575 01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,960 Speaker 1: the mainstream ones like Mark Warner, who else is ed Marquis, 1576 01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:53,920 Speaker 1: they want more censorship, right like they want to repeal 1577 01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,240 Speaker 1: Section two thirty specifically because of more censorship. And if 1578 01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:58,800 Speaker 1: you see on the right that people want to repeal 1579 01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:02,280 Speaker 1: section two thirty it's punished Facebook for censorship, how do 1580 01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:07,599 Speaker 1: you see the landscape there? Generally? This is the big issue, right. 1581 01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:11,720 Speaker 1: I think it's very difficult to find a bipartisanize it 1582 01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:13,680 Speaker 1: does exist in some cases. I do think there are 1583 01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:15,479 Speaker 1: actually really well meaning people on the right and the 1584 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:19,120 Speaker 1: left that are concerned about the economic power of these platforms, 1585 01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:21,599 Speaker 1: and that is the lens through which they view this problem. 1586 01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:23,920 Speaker 1: That is, I really think a genuine effort. Where it 1587 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,080 Speaker 1: completely goes off the rails is when you start to 1588 01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,400 Speaker 1: see on the left people trying to push what I 1589 01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:32,000 Speaker 1: call woke anti trust, where you try to enforce your 1590 01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,719 Speaker 1: anti trust with social goals in mind, and then people 1591 01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,800 Speaker 1: on the right who were solely interested in just you know, 1592 01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,320 Speaker 1: thinking of this as a speech problem and that these 1593 01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,640 Speaker 1: platforms must be punished. Those two nds of the spectrum 1594 01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,160 Speaker 1: are never going to agree, and unfortunately, at this moment 1595 01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,240 Speaker 1: in time, I think are poisoning the efforts of sort 1596 01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,439 Speaker 1: of what this actual genuine effort is, which again is 1597 01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,320 Speaker 1: combating the market power problem that I think is the 1598 01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,479 Speaker 1: root of everything else we're seeing. That's a good point. 1599 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:03,200 Speaker 1: Ryan Grimm had some interesting about a Progressive Caucus meeting 1600 01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,520 Speaker 1: that went off the rails over allegations that Zoe Loughren 1601 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,160 Speaker 1: was effectively trying to throw a wrench, a monkey wrench 1602 01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,080 Speaker 1: into the works of some of the anti trust legislation 1603 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:17,840 Speaker 1: that was being worked on because she is in the 1604 01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,240 Speaker 1: pocket of Silicon Valley interests, and of course she found 1605 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,439 Speaker 1: that very offensive. But you know, you can look at 1606 01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:27,400 Speaker 1: the financial disclosures and decide for yourself. So with that 1607 01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,040 Speaker 1: in mind, who do you see as the good actors, 1608 01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,799 Speaker 1: the genuine actors who have more than just an interest 1609 01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:38,160 Speaker 1: in their own partisan political power on both the left 1610 01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:40,479 Speaker 1: and the right in the Congress right now, So I think, 1611 01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, the efforts of Congressman ken Buck have been 1612 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,160 Speaker 1: really instructive here. He's the Republican in the House that's 1613 01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,760 Speaker 1: really been leading the bipartisan effort with David Cicillini on 1614 01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,160 Speaker 1: the Anti Trust Subcommittee to try and address the market 1615 01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,559 Speaker 1: power of these of these platforms. Now, you saw some 1616 01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:57,080 Speaker 1: pushback against these bills when they were introduced from both 1617 01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,320 Speaker 1: the left and the right, and they weren't perfect right, 1618 01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,760 Speaker 1: they didn't get it right immediately. But we forget that 1619 01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,519 Speaker 1: the legislative process is iterative. We haven't seen it in 1620 01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,679 Speaker 1: so long that we expect the outcome to be perfect 1621 01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:08,760 Speaker 1: in the beginning, and no, it's a process, you get 1622 01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:11,639 Speaker 1: to it in the end. What was fascinating was that 1623 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,880 Speaker 1: he was opposed, you know, by some in his own party, 1624 01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,880 Speaker 1: but also by the Silicon Valley Democrats. There was a 1625 01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,880 Speaker 1: very significant alliance on that subcommittee of California Democrats led 1626 01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:25,480 Speaker 1: by Zoelofgren, who were just like gave sort of rhetorical 1627 01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:28,080 Speaker 1: head paths to the legislation and proceeded to knife it 1628 01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,479 Speaker 1: over you know, twelve hours. And on the right, I 1629 01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,959 Speaker 1: think you have definitely people who are interested in protecting 1630 01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,479 Speaker 1: these companies as business interests. But what's so interesting to 1631 01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,240 Speaker 1: me about the right is that we are really reaping 1632 01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:45,800 Speaker 1: thirty years of not paying attention to business and to 1633 01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,880 Speaker 1: this issue, and we have no intellectual infrastructure to now 1634 01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:52,920 Speaker 1: grapple with what is happening. You know, the intellectual infrastructure 1635 01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,360 Speaker 1: that we have on the right around economics and around 1636 01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,719 Speaker 1: the really specifics of how these platforms operate is based 1637 01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:02,479 Speaker 1: on like reading some Friedrich Hayek and being like regulation 1638 01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,680 Speaker 1: is bad. That's basically the whole of it. And you know, 1639 01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,760 Speaker 1: it's really frustrating for people like me who are trying 1640 01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,040 Speaker 1: to propose really good, you know policy here that we 1641 01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,800 Speaker 1: just don't have anything, We have nothing to pull from. 1642 01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:15,600 Speaker 1: So I think what you're seeing on the right is 1643 01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,120 Speaker 1: a genuine concern with speech, but they don't have the 1644 01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:24,439 Speaker 1: sort of neural pathways to then be able to know 1645 01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,040 Speaker 1: how to go about addressing it effectively. Yeah, I think 1646 01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:29,000 Speaker 1: it's a really excellent point, Rachel work. Can people find 1647 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,559 Speaker 1: out more about you all of that? So you can 1648 01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,920 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Rachel Bouvard and all of 1649 01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,240 Speaker 1: my work is posted at CPI dot org. Awesome, we 1650 01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:38,880 Speaker 1: love it. Thanks for joining us, Rachel, I really appreciate it. 1651 01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:40,920 Speaker 1: Great to be back. For everybody else out there, you 1652 01:28:40,920 --> 01:28:43,400 Speaker 1: can become a premium subscriber today right there. Link. It 1653 01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,000 Speaker 1: is a description powered by supercast. You know the drill. 1654 01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,960 Speaker 1: You get the show an hour early link uncut. Listen 1655 01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:50,880 Speaker 1: all of that. You've heard me say it in all 1656 01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,680 Speaker 1: number of times. We'll see you all on Monday. Have 1657 01:28:53,720 --> 01:29:10,679 Speaker 1: a good one, guys. Thanks for listening to the show. Guys, 1658 01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,240 Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. To help other people find the show, 1659 01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,240 Speaker 1: go ahead and leave us a five star rating on 1660 01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:18,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts really helps 1661 01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:22,120 Speaker 1: other people find the show as always special. Thank you 1662 01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,760 Speaker 1: to Supercast for powering our premium membership. If you want 1663 01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:28,799 Speaker 1: to find out more, go to Crystalansager dot com