1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I'm fascinated by the 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: fact that there are so many people nowadays seemingly obsessed 3 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: with the idea of the apocalypse. It baffles the mind. 4 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: It really It goes to an old idea about where 5 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: your treasure is stored up, that thing that you've invested 6 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: time in. I guess in your mind, those moments that 7 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: you sit around and you contemplate these things, and it's 8 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: it's everywhere you got in video games, and you even 9 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: have people that do what's referred to as cosplay and 10 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: they are obsessed with it as a matter of fact, 11 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: by extension that they will so embroidery their life, knit 12 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: themselves together, if you will, with this idea of this 13 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: persona that they create where you don't know where fact 14 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: and fiction are separated. Today, we're gonna talk about a 15 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: fella that self identified as somebody named the Zombie Hunter. 16 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: He even wrote around in an old unmarked police car 17 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: with that written on it, and it had been painted 18 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: with bloodstains. We're gonna be talking about the recent conviction 19 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and sentencing of Brian Patrick Miller. I'm Josephcott Morgan, and 20 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: this is Body Bags Dave mac I spent a lot 21 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: of time doing let's see, how can I put this 22 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: scratch in my head? You sit back sometimes you just 23 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: think what in the world is happening? And when this 24 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: news kind of dropped about the recent conviction and sentencing 25 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: of Brian Patrick Miller, I wanted to have a conversation 26 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: with you about it today because I'm not going to 27 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: say it beats everything I've ever seen, but it's kind 28 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: of a very, very sad and tragic commentary. 29 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: I think the popularity of the zombie has been big 30 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 2: for the last I don't know, fifteen years or so, 31 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: We've had TV shows, movies about zombies, the zombie apocalypse. 32 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: If you look it up, you know, just do a 33 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: quick Google search and you're going to see not only 34 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 2: is there an entertainment factor of the whole zombie thing, 35 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: but there's also a real is Waco nut job a 36 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: term a scientific term for what we're dealing with? 37 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you think about that, and it kind of it 38 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: goes to and I tried to tell my students that 39 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: I teach at Jacksonville State and say, look, be very 40 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: careful you use the term crazy right, because it kind 41 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: of diminishes responsibility, I think in one degree, and then 42 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't really go to the heart of the issue 43 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: because when you sit back, and particularly in this case 44 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: with Miller, you kind of see how debased his worldview 45 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: was and what terror and horror he kind of wrought 46 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: people that were actually victims, these young ladies that were victims. 47 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: You can see this as a death investigator out you know, 48 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: in forensics, when you go out to deal with family members. 49 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: One of the things is it's one of those markers 50 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: in life where you have everything that happened before and 51 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: everything that happened afterwards, and these families are scarred forever 52 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: and ever and ever by this guy's egocentric indulgence. 53 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: Brian Patrick Miller, I think it bears going into and 54 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: realized that while we have two murders, that's what he's 55 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: accused of here and going to court and all that. 56 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: But right at the very beginning, you mentioned how he 57 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: would drive around in this zombie hunter mobile, you know, 58 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: a car that looked like a police car. It had 59 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: lights in black and white, and it had blood spatters 60 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: on it, well not real blood, but fake blood, and 61 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: it was his whole persona. And actually he found himself 62 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: in this character somehow and became part of the steam 63 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 2: punk movement. Are you familiar with this at all? Steampunk? 64 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, at least peripherally. Yeah. 65 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: Steampunk. It's a sub genre of science fiction that kind 66 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: of think about Big Bang theory for a minute of 67 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: the TV show and you have this show about these 68 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: guys that are all about comic books and superheroes and 69 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: the movies and all that. Steampunk takes. It's kind of 70 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: from that same island, but it hops on a different 71 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: boat and paddles a different direction. It takes this fantasy 72 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: world and it begins incorporating cosplay, costume plays and things 73 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: like that, where they dress up in outfits that set 74 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: them apart. If you can imagine a term retro futuristic. 75 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: They take this stuff from science fiction and they fuse 76 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: it together with nineteenth century outfits, machinery, industrial steam power. 77 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: That's where the steampunk thing comes from. Brian Patrick Miller 78 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: he was very involved in the steampunk group in Phoenix 79 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: for at least four years. And we know this because 80 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: one of the guys who knew him as part of 81 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: this group talks about him and talked about the kind 82 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: of individual he was and what he liked to dress up, 83 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: and he really took the dress up thing. That's where 84 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: the zombie Hunter came out of. It was part of 85 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 2: his just dress up time. Pretend. 86 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: No, anytime you have somebody I think that is developmentally stunted, 87 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: perhaps it's an opportunity, certainly to put on a mask 88 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: and you inhabit this environment and come something totally different. 89 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: You know, maybe your perception in life is that you 90 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: don't have everything that's coming to you, or I want 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: to leave the old life behind and just for a moment, 92 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: I can inhabit this space and become something else. And 93 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: one of the more disturbing things I saw about this 94 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned the car, and the car is a former 95 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: police vehicle. It's a sedan, a FOURD or sedan as 96 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: you can imagine, and things fitted with lights Dave. And 97 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: then it's got emblazoned on the trunk in particular. And 98 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: the reason I say it's emblazoned on the trunk, I've 99 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: actually seen pictures of him at a couple of these 100 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: conventions in Arizona in Phoenix where he's standing there and 101 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: he's in his full regalia with the leather jacket on. 102 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 1: He's got a gas mask on with old helmet looks 103 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: like maybe a French World War One helmet, and he's 104 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: holding this kind of odd, oddly configured weapon. You know, 105 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: it's got multiple barrels that look like it would row 106 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: or something like this, and he's standing there very ominous. 107 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: But here's another piece to this. He was so embolden. 108 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: There are multiple images on the Internet of him standing 109 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: having his picture taken with uniform police officers that are 110 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: providing security for this event. I know a lot of 111 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: people have pictures made with cops. That's part of the 112 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: attraction of it. You know, you go down our families 113 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: had pictures made with New Orleans Police Apartment equestrian officers, 114 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: you know, where they're beautiful animals there and you're standing 115 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: next to them, you know, and those guys are smiling, 116 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: and we're smiling. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're guilty 117 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: of anything, but I think that in retrospect, when you 118 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: begin to look at what this behavior is that he 119 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: engaged in, you begin to see a boldness about it. 120 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: And maybe that boldness was I don't know, facilitated or 121 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: egged on by this cloak that he kind of threw 122 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: around his shoulders where you couldn't really see what lie underneath. 123 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: Many years back, I was in attendance at the American 124 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: Academy of Forensic Science meeting in a large city, which 125 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: is where it happens. If you've never been, it's pretty amazing. 126 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: You have forensic scientists from all disciplines that are there, 127 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: and you get together and you present papers and those 128 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: sorts of things, and you can kind of walk in 129 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: and out of these rooms and you can listen to 130 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: what each one of these experts have to say about 131 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: things they find of interest. I walked into a room 132 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: one day at the conference, and it was the odentology room, 133 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: which is people that handle teeth, you know, whether it's 134 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: getting bodies identified or if it was back in the 135 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: day relative to bite marks. And I walked in and 136 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 1: there was a forensic odentologist from Mount West that was 137 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: speaking about arguably one of the most gruesome things that 138 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: I'd ever seen. I saw the images from this, and 139 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: it was images of a jogger out in Colorado, a 140 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: young lady that parked a car in a parking lot 141 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: and she did her warm ups, her leg stretches. She 142 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: hops on the local running trail and proceeds to jog 143 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: and this trail kind of wound its way through this 144 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: little park area. And what she didn't know was that 145 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: sitting up on a rock above this area that she 146 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: was about to jog past was mountain lion, and that 147 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: mountain lion grabbed hold of her and did things that 148 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: I can't even begin to describe on the show. And 149 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: probably to add another layer of horror to this, there 150 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: were two men that left about five minutes after she did, 151 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: and when they got to that spot on that trail there, 152 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: her lifeless body was clinched in the teeth of this 153 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: mountain line and he was ripping under shred riding from 154 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: these guys. Can you imagine the horror of that? In 155 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: my estimation, Miller was kind of like that mountain Line 156 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: because he victimized young ladies that were out riding their bikes. 157 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: Well, we are talking about today, Brian Patrick Miller, the 158 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 2: Zombie Hunters. He named himself that he has two victims 159 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: that we're dealing with. Two victims, two beautiful young women. 160 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: Angela Brasso was twenty one when she went missing, actually 161 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 2: the day before her twenty second birthday, and Melanie Burness seventeen. 162 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 2: She was in high school their similarities. They both rode bicycles. 163 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: Whether you're doing it for health, enjoyment, oftentimes the tour together, 164 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 2: or you're competing for something. I mean, this is something 165 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: a lot of people do in terms of staying healthy 166 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: and enjoying. I love riding a bike. It's a fun 167 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 2: thing to do. But in this case, both the women 168 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: were by themselves at the time they came in contact 169 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: with Miller. Now Brian Patrick Miller called himself the zombie Hunter, 170 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: was into steampunk, created this whole persona. But you know 171 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: what that came after the murders that he's accused of. 172 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: Now we're talking about thirty years ago. We're talking about 173 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: in the early nineties, and police were able to collect 174 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: evidence that even though they didn't really have a suspect, 175 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: they had a broad net. But what they collected at 176 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: the scene of the crime led to finding this guy. 177 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: Angela Brosso left her home. She was living with her boyfriend, 178 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: twenty one years old, living in Phoenix. She goes for 179 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: a bike ride around seven o'clock on a Sunday evening. 180 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: She doesn't return four and a half. Few hours later, 181 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: it's like eleven thirty at night. She was going to 182 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 2: be back hours ago, her boy friend calls police. Now 183 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: you know, the first thing they're going to do is 184 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: assume the boyfriend did something. That's just normal police procedure 185 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: to look at the person they're closest to and starting 186 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: with him. But it didn't last long because the next morning, 187 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: her naked, decapitated body was found near the bike trail. 188 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: Now remember here, decapitated means her head had been removed 189 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 2: from her body. And by the way, I read this 190 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: line from the police report the first time because I 191 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: thought they made a mistake. It said her abdomen and 192 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: chest were cut open, she was decapitated, and her head 193 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: was missing. 194 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I read the same thing, 195 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: and you know what it made me think of immediately, 196 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: it made me think of the Black Dahlia, because that's 197 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: what had occurred in that case that made it so 198 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: very infamous. First off, they didn't know who she was, 199 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: but you find a body. I know this term is 200 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: normally associated with church, but her body was so desecrated, 201 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: and I thought about this just for a moment, and 202 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, if you see something like this, is the 203 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: killer living out some kind of fantasy in their mind. 204 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: This something that they're kind of acting out and the 205 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: Black Dahlias in true crime. It's up there in kind 206 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: of the pantheon because they still don't know who did it, 207 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: but people have always been aware of it. They've always 208 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: been aware of it. And when I heard this, I 209 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: was thinking, Hm, I wonder if that's where his mind 210 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: was at the time. 211 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: What would it take for somebody in this particular case. 212 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: You've got a healthy, twenty one year old young woman 213 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: on a bike and she is attacked while riding the 214 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: bike by the way. Her bike was missing. That was 215 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: one of the sides of this is that her bike 216 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: was missing, and so was her head. Her body was 217 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: found without its head. Now, they found her body the 218 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: next day, so we know that she left for the 219 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: bike ride around seven o'clock the night before, and when 220 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: they find her body the next day, she has been abused. 221 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: They say she was sexually assaulted either before, during, or 222 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: after she was dead. But for her to be found 223 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: near that bike trail, would the person who commits this 224 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: crime be able to do all that damage right there? Quickly? 225 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out how this could happen. Did 226 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: he take her someplace else, did damage and bring her back? 227 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: How did this happen and how could it happen that 228 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: people didn't see it? Nobody saw this. 229 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: The watchwork for this is privacy, provhecy, and then I 230 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: think probably close second is preparedness. This is not something 231 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: that someone would go into without having planned extensively, because 232 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: when you're talking about desecrating, and I want to continue 233 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: to use that word in our conversation, when you talk 234 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: about descreating remains where you're literally removing the head of 235 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: a fellow human being and then desecrating the remain the body. 236 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: One of the assessments that was done on her, and 237 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: this kind of rings rings in my ears, is the 238 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: fact that her body was almost completely transacted, which means 239 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: you have an incision, if you will, that runs from 240 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: east to west across the axis of the body. And 241 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: that's not something that you would undertake and not have 242 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: the ability to hide what you were doing. You know, 243 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: first off, if you're going to much like the story 244 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: about the Mountain Lion, if you're going to snatch a 245 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: young woman who's obviously healthy, she's healthy enough to ride 246 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: a bike right off of a bike and avoid any 247 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of detection, then you're going to have to have 248 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: privacy in order to facilitate this, and not just privacy day, 249 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: but just to the point of attack. The killer would 250 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: have to have very intimate knowledge of the location. What's 251 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: going to be the choke point here where you're going 252 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: to lay in wait to ambush her as she riding 253 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: this bike and you're going to knock her off of 254 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: it and then get the upper hand on her. And 255 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: to my way of thinking, an individual that would do 256 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: this would have to be prepared not just with what 257 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: you're going to do with the body, with the desecration part, 258 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: but we're talking about sexual assault. And here's the key. 259 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: With the sexual assault, you've got sample that has been 260 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: left behind. So do you kill the individual first? And 261 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: I think that that's probably what happened in this particular case. 262 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: Essentially a stabbing, that's how it starts. You incapacitate them 263 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: to the point where they are now deceased. Now you 264 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: can do anything that you want to with the body. 265 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: We know that Miller is the perpetrator, so he's already 266 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: living in this fantastical world, right, and so he has 267 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: the facility about him to continue out this fantasy. You 268 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: drag this poor girl's body off to a locate where 269 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: you can facilitate this and have your way sexually with 270 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: the body. So now we've entered into the space of necrophilia, 271 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: now sex with the dead, and you're leaving a biological 272 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: sample behind which, to your credit, you picked up on 273 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: just a few moments ago day where you talked about 274 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: the police held onto this for years. I mean years, 275 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: thirty You're talking about a thirty year gap here. This 276 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: can be very fragile evidence. But they were able, and 277 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: I think they were so resolute in their investigation where 278 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: they knew how important this would be if they could 279 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: collect anything off of her. But you know, it's within 280 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: a month after he does this horrible act that he 281 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: goes after Melanie Burnos. 282 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: Actually, the reality of the timeline is that when they 283 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: found Brosso's body, her head was not there. They found 284 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 2: her head a week and a half later, eleven days later, 285 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: and I was wondering if the zombie hunter held onto 286 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: her head as a trophy or something in his freezer 287 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,239 Speaker 2: and then put it out for them to find, or 288 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 2: if he actually they just over didn't find it at 289 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: first because it was found a little ways away from 290 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: where her body was discovered. 291 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: And this is important, you know, most of the time 292 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: when I think of Phoenix, Phoenix in particular because it's 293 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: so bloody hot. I love Phoenix. I love Arizona. I 294 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: was there in the army at for Watchuka many many 295 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: moons ago when dinosaurs were on the Earth, and I 296 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: love Arizona. It is an absolutely beautiful place. But I 297 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: don't normally associate water with that area. But this Arizona 298 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: Canal actually did contain water, so you begin to think 299 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: was water moving swiftly, you know through this area. Was 300 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: there some kind of release, you know, current release, you know, 301 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: if they're using it as a drain or something like that, 302 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: and it had migrated the head away from the body. 303 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes this will happen. Things kind of move along 304 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: and you're not necessarily going to find it. But you know, 305 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: that's very interesting. You are you holding on? You know, 306 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: if you're thinking about the methodology here. If he is 307 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: a trophy hunter, is he hanging onto the head in 308 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: order to continue out this fantasy and then maybe he 309 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: just gets tired of it and then disposes of it. 310 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: And that's what I was wondering, because you mentioned how 311 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: hot it is in Phoenix. I looked up the average 312 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: temperature for this time of year in Phoenix, and the 313 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 2: temperature ranges from a high of like between seventy and 314 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: eighty degrees lows in the load to mid sixties. So 315 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: it's very moderate attempts in November in Phoenix. But again 316 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: that dry also lacking humidity. Phoenix doesn't have much humidity, 317 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: so we've got that now. We mentioned the second victim, 318 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: Melanie Burness. Melanie was seventeen years old high school student 319 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: and what's a bike rider on top of the other 320 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 2: things that she did. She was found eleven months later. 321 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 2: She was actually killed in September of nineteen ninety three. 322 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: So we have the first victim, Melanie Abrasso, being killed 323 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: in September, I mean November rather of ninety two, ten 324 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: months later. Second victim, Melanie Burnas is killed out on 325 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: that same canal bike trail when it happened, and she 326 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: was the actual paperwork says she was murdered with a knife. 327 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 2: Police say that she was stabbed in the back and 328 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: pulled off the bike. Now her bike also was missing. 329 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 2: She was attacked, sexually assaulted and murdered with a knife. 330 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 2: They found her body floating in the Arizona Canal near 331 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 2: an interstate overpass about a mile and a half from 332 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: where they found Angela's Angela Brossos remains ten months earlier. Now, 333 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: in this case, she was not decapitated, but her bike 334 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: was missing. So if he took the time to decapitate 335 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: his first victim, do you think he either learned that 336 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: that was a really difficult thing to do and to 337 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: not do it again, or he was interrupted in the process. 338 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that what you've got is you've got 339 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: a there is you and they talk about this with 340 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: Cereal perpetrators. You've got kind of a learning curve that 341 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: goes on in a comfort level. They decide what they're 342 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: going to do. And there were so many stab wounds 343 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: on her body that they couldn't count them. And I've 344 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: had this happen before as an investigator, where you have 345 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: multiple wounds where they will be communicating wounds, which means 346 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: that one wound attaches or connects to another and you 347 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 1: can't really make heads or tails off it. You're fighting 348 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: against the idea that this is so horrific, and there 349 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: might be some level of decomposition that's going on where 350 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: it's hard to kind of separate one from another. But 351 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: when you look at this precious seventeen year old girl, 352 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: something different happened with her because when her remains were 353 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: actually found, and I don't know how many people really 354 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: know about this, a knife had been used to carve 355 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: across into her chest. And not only had that occurred, 356 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: but the initials WSC were carved into our body as well, 357 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: and the police were never able to determine what WSC 358 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: stood for. And I think that when you find something 359 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: like that at a scene, you're so compelled to go 360 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: down that path. What kind of pattern can I recognize here? 361 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: And it goes beyond just our physical assessment as to 362 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 1: what kind of tool was used or how long did 363 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: it take, how deep were the wounds, which is certainly 364 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: something where they've done post mortem or anti mortem, you know, 365 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: like in an individual being tortured, But it also goes 366 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: to kind of forensically breaking down things like handwriting, for instance, 367 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: and are there any commonalities in that location. Who's on 368 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: my witness list here that might have a commonality with 369 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: the letters WSC because that's a very specific marker. You 370 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: scratch your head over it, so and it's very easy 371 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: to get caught up in that. But sometimes it turns 372 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: up to be a red herring. The sheer horror that 373 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: kind of inhabits the minds of those that may have 374 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: lived in close proximity to the Arizona Canal Man, there's 375 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: no more peace to be found. And with Miller, this 376 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: case remained unresolved for decades. Dave. 377 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 2: When you sent me this story to look at, my 378 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: first thought was, you're going to tell me that two 379 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: women die under very similar circumstances and police are able 380 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: to very early tell that the same attacker was involved 381 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 2: in both, But they don't have a suspect, they don't 382 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: have a us back. You know that the person did both. 383 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: You've got a general geography geographically speaking, they're a mile 384 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: and a half from one another in the same area. 385 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: And it just was shocking. And that's why I pointed 386 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 2: out that the detectives, those people on scene that collected evidence, 387 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 2: they really did their job. But now again it sat 388 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: there for decades unsolved, with people wondering did the guy 389 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: move on? Is he in jail or is he out 390 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: there waiting and just getting away with stuff or not 391 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: hearing about it. But we now know that when Brian 392 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 2: Patrick Miller was sixteen years old, this is may of 393 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: eighty nine, couple of years before the first murder took place, 394 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 2: he stabbed a twenty four year old woman. They were 395 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 2: riding a bus together, didn't know one another, had never 396 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: met before. They get at the Paradise Valley Mall they're 397 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: in Phoenix, and he stabs her in the back. He's charged, 398 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 2: but he's a juvenile. He was convicted of aggravated assault 399 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: and he was imprisoned at Adobe Mountain Juvenile Correctional Facility. 400 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: While he was there, he became involved with a pastor 401 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 2: who worked with the Paradise Valley Mennonite Church, and they 402 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: had a prison ministry, loving on young people who had 403 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 2: committed Hainu's crimes, trying to show them that there's more 404 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: to life than what you've done. Anyway, Miller becomes involved 405 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: with the church and becomes deeply involved with the church. 406 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 2: After he is released from this juvenile facility, because at eighteen, 407 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 2: he's no longer a juvenile. To go to release him 408 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: in Joe, his mother rejects him. His mother will not 409 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 2: take him. She no, you're not coming back. They had 410 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: a bad relationship before, but she won't even take him back, 411 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: and so the church they took him in and he 412 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: lived with a number of different members in the church. 413 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: So think about this. We're talking about this young person 414 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: going to juvenile for stabbing a woman he didn't know. 415 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: He gets out, his mother says she can't be with me. 416 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: He kind of gets fostered out. Now he's supposedly an adult. 417 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: In May of nineteen ninety two, he's baptized in the church, 418 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 2: baptized in the church, and then what one hundred and 419 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: twenty days later he kills a woman. 420 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, give me that dated chain. 421 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 2: He actually was baptized in May of ninety two and 422 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: then commits his first well, the first murder we know about, okay, 423 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 2: happens in September of nineteen ninety and that's where pe 424 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 2: do think that maybe the cross came into play. I 425 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: don't know. I'm just throwing it out there, but we 426 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 2: don't know. The only things we know are the things 427 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: that we have heard about. I have a real deep 428 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 2: feeling that there's a lot more that we need to 429 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: find out about Brian Patrick Miller. But just starting with 430 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: these two, I have questions about the deaths of both 431 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 2: the women that he actually went to Courtover and how 432 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: a how come they couldn't solve this sooner? And b 433 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: how did they after years? Cases called Joe? How do 434 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: they solve a case? They have all the evidence collected 435 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two and ninety three. It's not like 436 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: there's any more new evidence popping up at the crime scene. 437 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: What was the difference between then and twenty fifteen when 438 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 2: they were able to make an arrest. 439 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a matter, and as frustrating as this is, 440 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: you have to wait for the technology to catch up. 441 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: And this can be applied in a lot of It's 442 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: not just limited to DNA. There are a lot of 443 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: other areas where in science where we've had to allow 444 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: technology to get us to the point where we can 445 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: explore new things and try to understand. You might suspect 446 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: that there is something there. You've got these two young women, 447 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: as you say, that are connected geographically, so you know 448 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: you're fitting into a particular geographic profile. And then you've 449 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: got methodology that you have to look at. You've got 450 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: somebody that has a real interest in edged weapons here 451 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: that go to you know, we talked about the first 452 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: victim where it seemed kind of frenzied, and I'm not 453 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: talking about the young lady that he stabbed on the bus. 454 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: But I am talking about the frenzied attack that you 455 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: have with the first victim, and then you move on 456 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: to the next victim, where the individual is taking their time, 457 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, taking their time to the 458 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: point where they're using an edged weapon to carve an 459 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: image of a cross as you mentioned, and also initials 460 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: into the body. You're on a completely different wavelength at 461 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: that point in time, and so you have all of 462 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: that connection. Here's my thing. If you've got somebody that 463 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: would be so bold in order to perpetrate these kinds 464 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: of crimes, and you look back in time and see 465 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: his attack on this woman on the bus, you think 466 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: other victims out there. I think any right thinking person 467 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: would have to ask that question, is there anybody else 468 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: out there that they have not connected to him yet? 469 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: So the crux of this is the fact it was 470 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: actually forensic genealogy that got this case solved, and in particular, 471 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: I think probably historically, when we look at the history 472 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,959 Speaker 1: of forensic science and where we are right now have 473 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: to wait for technology to catch up. Probably one of 474 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: the giants in this field, Colleen Fitzpatrick, she lent a 475 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: hand in this case because the police, they know intuitively, 476 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: you know that you got something here, just can't seem 477 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: to put the pieces back. And it just so happened 478 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: that Colleen Fitzpatrick, who is in fact a forensic scientist 479 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: that involves herself in forensic genealogy, that works with She's 480 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: actually got a background in physics of all things, which 481 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: is completely different than forensic genealogy, but it requires kind 482 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: of a methodical approach to things. She was able to 483 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: narrow the suspect field down based upon that evidence that 484 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: they had collected all those many years ago. 485 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 2: Dave, when I was looking at this, there was an 486 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: interesting moment that took place because it was a very 487 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 2: cold case and the detectives ended up going to a conference. 488 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: It's at this exact same conference Colleen Fitzpatrick and they 489 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 2: connected and said can we send you some infook? Can 490 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: we send you this? We've got some DNA? Can you help? 491 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: And Jesus that I'll try, And that's I mean happenstance, Dude. 492 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: They were at the conference. A was in Phoenix, So 493 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: if this conference had taken place anywhere other than Phoenix, 494 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: they wouldn't have been there. 495 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and life is that way, and sometimes it happens 496 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: that way. And it just so happened that the lives 497 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: of these investigators that had to sing hanging on their 498 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: on their books for a long time, that had remained 499 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't cold to them. You know, people just kind 500 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: of randomly throw out that term cold case. Many times. 501 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: I apologize that was really wrong for me to say, 502 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: because they were working it. 503 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: No, I think a lot of people do. It is cold, 504 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: maybe tepid, but it's still in your mind as an investigator, 505 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: it's there. You're thinking about it, and it's it's very hard, 506 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: I think, in the memory of an organization like a 507 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: police department to forget cases like this where you've got 508 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: a decapitation, you've got bodies that have had let's face 509 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: at words, images that are carved into them, and you 510 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: don't want to forget that because it kind of stands out. 511 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: And just as I spoke just a moment ago, for 512 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: people involved in a case like this, you're thinking, look, 513 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: this is happening here geographically, we have a profile, but 514 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: has this extended out any further? Is this occurring anywhere? 515 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: And many people in the populace believe that, Well, if 516 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: I have captured DNA at a scene, automatically, it's going 517 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: to be solved. Well, here's the problem the rub as 518 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: they say, it's like a latent print. You can grab 519 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: as many latent prints at a scene that you want, 520 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: but if you don't have anything to compare it to, 521 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: it ain't worth a gunpowder to blow it to hell. 522 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with DNA sample. If you 523 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: don't have anything to compare it to. He got a problem. 524 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: And there's two separate categories of DNA. You have what's 525 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: referred to as a forensic DNA database, which means you've 526 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: got cases that are open out there. We've got a 527 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: DNA sample, we don't have a profile. And you have 528 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: known you have known offenders that have tie backs and 529 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: they've gotten samples on individuals say that are sex offenders 530 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: where they've taken samples, they've married those up to items 531 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: that they've collected, it seems, and they know those individuals. 532 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: The problem is is that with these two cases in Phoenix, 533 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have anybody compare it to. And 534 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: so that's where Colleen Fitzpatrick comes in. You know, this 535 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: person that's trained as a physicist, which is amazing to me, 536 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: but she has a true passion for forensic genealogy. She's 537 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: able to narrow the scope now and that's you know, 538 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: all roads lead back to Miller in this case, Dave. 539 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 2: And that was the part that really got me when 540 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: we were looking at this Joe and again mentioning the 541 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: fact that it had been so many years and she 542 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: is able to from October of twenty fourteen to December 543 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: two months time, emailing back and forth. This information finally 544 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: came out during court proceedings, but their emails indicating that 545 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 2: police were providing information and she was providing it back 546 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: and forth as they communicated, and she was able to 547 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: narrow it down. And it wasn't just a matter of 548 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: getting the last name, it was getting the geographical location 549 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: and everything else. And the police wisely pointed out, well, 550 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 2: he was a part of our large group of potential suspects, 551 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: but we didn't have a way to narrow him down 552 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 2: because you don't have his DNA. You've only got the 553 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 2: DNA of person who committed the crimes. You don't have 554 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: anybody compared it to. That's where she comes in, and 555 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 2: she did, and it was just it's still as remarkable 556 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 2: to me what she was capable of doing, Joe. There 557 00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: are other indicators that maybe Miller never stopped stabbing women, 558 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 2: never stopped surprising them. We've got evidence that, you know, 559 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: he did a number of things prior to the you know, 560 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 2: as we mentioned, we had the sixteen when he's sixteen, 561 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: stabbing a woman getting off a bus. He did leave 562 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: Arizona for a while and went to Washington State, and 563 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: we've got some cases there. I don't think this is 564 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: the end of the story for Brian Patrick Miller. 565 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's terrifying on many many levels. But let me 566 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: throw a little beam of sunlight in here. Now, they've 567 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: got an evidence trail, and if there are other cases 568 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: that are out there, you can bet your bottom dollar 569 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: that they're going to look at him to see if 570 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: he's connected to anything that has happened in that corridor 571 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: on the West coast. Perhaps maybe he's connected to other things. 572 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: And look, there are cases out there, Dave, he could 573 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: and you can say this about anything, you know, anybody 574 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: could be connected to it. But he maybe it fits 575 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: some kind of pattern relative to sharp force injuries, geographic 576 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: familiarity type al when it comes to the victims, they 577 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: look a particular way if they like riding bikes, for instance, 578 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: or if they're in a defenseless position where the area 579 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: has been scouted out. Sometimes with these cases you're not 580 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: going to have a sufficient DNA sample. Maybe there could 581 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: be cases where women have been attacked and cut up 582 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: where the fantasy didn't involve completion of the sexual act. 583 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: Where you have an individual that's engaging in just a 584 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: straight up necrophilic event where he's having an intercourse with 585 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: the deceased. Maybe he's gotten a little bit wiser at 586 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: this point in time. Remember how we talked about the 587 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: first victim. Here, this young lady was about to turn 588 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: twenty two years old, and you have the frenzied attack. 589 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: There is a learning curve, and you can see with 590 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: this precious seventeen year old how it changed over that 591 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: period of time. And I think that that's very telling. 592 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: You never know, maybe he'll be attached to some cases 593 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: that might be out there. I do know this, Brian 594 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: Patrick Miller has been convicted and he's now been sentenced 595 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: to death in Arizona. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 596 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: is body Bags