1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. I am 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: here as always with my producer Mike. 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: Mike, how are you doing tonight? 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 3: I'm doing well, Bridget. Thanks for having me back. 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: It is nice to see you as always. And here's 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: what you may have missed this week on the internet. 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: So are y'all still using Threads. 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: If you are, there's a chance that you. 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: Might actually be there alone because after resurgeon downloads, while 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: Twitter was crapping the bed like we told you about 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, Threads is daily active user count 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: dropped from forty nine million to twenty three point six 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: million in the span of a week. We're getting this 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: information from similar Web, which is a firm that tracks 17 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: web traffic. They're only reporting Android data, but it's pretty 18 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: likely that this is the same across operating systems, and 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: it still paints a pretty qual hative picture. Here's what 20 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: they found on its very best day, July seventh, the 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: same day that Twitter was announcing rate limits and all 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 1: of that nonsense, Threads had more than forty nine million 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: daily active users on Android worldwide. That's about forty five 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: percent of the usage of Twitter, which had more than 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: one hundred and nine million active Android users that day. 26 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: But by Friday, July fourteenth, Threads was down to twenty 27 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 1: three point six million active users, or about twenty two. 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: Percent of Twitter's audience. 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: Usage in the United States, which saw the most activity, 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: peaked at about twenty one minutes of engagement with the 31 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: app on July seventh, but by July fourteenth that was 32 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: down to a little over six minutes, so. 33 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: Like, not really a lot of engagement. 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: In the first two full days that Threads was generally 35 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: available Thursday and Friday, web traffic to Twitter dot com 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: was down five percent compared with the same days of 37 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 1: the previous week, although traffic bounced back for the most 38 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: recent seven days of data, and it's still down eleven 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: percent year over year. 40 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 4: I don't know. 41 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: I mean, like, I was pretty skeptical about threads. Mike, 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: have you been using it? 43 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: You know, just like everybody else. I checked it out 44 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: when it became available, and it seemed okay. It was 45 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: sort of interesting. It was like a new thing, and 46 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: there were a bunch of people posting it was pretty chaotic. 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: I didn't know what it was going to be. There 48 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: were like, like every account that I followed on Instagram 49 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: was suddenly on this totally new platform, and there were 50 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: a bunch of other accounts that I didn't follow. It 51 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 3: was okay, it was like kind of interesting. I will 52 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 3: be honest that I haven't really gone back after those 53 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 3: first initial couple days, so I don't know. I checked 54 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 3: it out and that was it. 55 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 56 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: I feel similarly. 57 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: I think on the show the last time that we 58 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: talked about it, I was sort of on the fence 59 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: on whether I was going to try it or not. 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: I really took issue with the. 61 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: Fact that if you tried it and didn't like it, 62 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: that you had to delete your whole Instagram account in 63 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: order to delete it outright because it's linked to your Instagram. 64 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: So I really took issue with that kind of philosophically, 65 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: but ultimately, I'm only human and I caved and tried it, 66 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: and it just wasn't for me. Maybe it'll change, it 67 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: just wasn't for me, and one of the reasons why 68 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: I think it just like wasn't calling my name. One 69 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: of my favorite tech journalists, Morgan Sung. 70 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: Really hit the nail on the head. 71 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: So Morgan had this really interesting take that really rang 72 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: true for me that Threads will never be the new 73 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: platform where all of us are spending our time because 74 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: it is run by Facebook. And know that it's not 75 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: just because we all hate Mark Zuckerberg, which of course 76 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: we do. It's because Facebook meta has notoriously puritanical policies 77 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: around things like nudity and sexuality. 78 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: More on that in just a moment. 79 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: But it's not a platform where you can really get weird. 80 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: And I think that a big part of what draws. 81 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: People into platforms, What makes platforms a place where it's 82 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: like interesting or exciting to be is weirdos. And part 83 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: of attracting weirdos is kind of having more open policies 84 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: around nudity and sexuality. That's what makes these platforms pop. Threads, 85 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: on the other hand, has this very kind of millennial 86 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: cringe style. Then it's also this very brand safe style, 87 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: like Morgan argues that brand Safe in twenty twenty three 88 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: has become the sort of twenty fourteen BuzzFeed style millennial 89 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: cringe Internet discourse speak. Uh no, shade to anybody who 90 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: uses that, because I certainly was talking like that in 91 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen on the Internet. 92 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: But when we were all talking like. 93 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: That and saying things like dogg oh and I did 94 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: a thing, brands essentially swooped in and co opted that. 95 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: And so that kind of speaking online is now synonymous 96 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: with brand safe speaking, and Breads is very much a 97 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: place that is about being brand safe. It's one of 98 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: the reasons why on the very first day where people 99 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: were getting on threads, the first people there were representing 100 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: brands and making their little brand safe, brand specific internet jokes. 101 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: And yeah, I just think that it's one of the reasons. 102 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: Why it doesn't feel like the platform for me, and 103 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: maybe one of the reasons why it's experiencing a dip 104 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: in usership. And so yeah, it's just like every time 105 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: I log in, it's just brand saying adulting or I 106 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: did a thing. Again, no shade to anybody who speaks 107 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: like that, because that's definitely how I was speaking on 108 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: the Internet circa twenty fourteen. 109 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny you say that, I'm like so 110 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: curious what millennial cringe speak is. I am not sure, 111 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 3: and I'm suddenly like hyper aware of everything that I 112 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: might have to say here. But one of the most 113 00:05:54,720 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 3: prolific accounts on my thread timeline is shake Shack Like 114 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: Shakeshack was just posting the hell out of threads and 115 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: it was so many, you know, mediocre burger jokes. I 116 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: love Shakeshack by the way, I will eat their burgers, 117 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: but like the jokes were like mediocre. Not once did 118 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: they say that they could as cheeseburger. 119 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: And what a miss layup. 120 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 3: It was like such a miss you know, like that 121 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: right there, I'm that's probably it. I'm not going back 122 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: to threads. 123 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, no one is going to ever get 124 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: me to say a bad word about Seakshack. 125 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: If Shakeshack is like doing something. 126 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: Problematic, truly, I don't want to know, because that's how 127 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: much I love their burgers. 128 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: You know. 129 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I think that Morgan Sung might beyondto something about this 130 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: idea of the puritanical anti sexuality, anti sex, un sexy 131 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: vibe over at meta kind of being the thing that 132 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: means that threads will never really take off. More on that, 133 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: because let me ask you something, why if Facebook reject 134 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: adds about women's sexual health, Well, that is exactly what 135 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: a group of Congressional Democrats are urging the Federal Trade 136 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: Commission to look into after a report from the nonprofit 137 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: from the Center for Intimacy Justice found that Meta is 138 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: rejecting sexual health advertisements targeted at women while allowing those 139 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: aimed at men, a possible violation of federal law. 140 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: This does not surprise me. 141 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: Meta is a deeply unsexy company with deeply unsexy policies. 142 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: None of this surprises me. 143 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 1: According to the Center for Intimacy Justice, their report found 144 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: that of the sixty health businesses studied that serve women's 145 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: health and the health for people of diverse genders, all 146 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: of them all one hundred percent had experienced Facebook rejecting 147 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: an advertisement at some point. Even more concerning, Facebook was 148 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: also found to have suspended half of the survey respondent's 149 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: advertising accounts now Meta flagged these ads as containing adult 150 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: content or promoting adult products and services. Nine months after 151 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: publishing the report, Meta published changes to its sexual health 152 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: advertising policies, newly stating that advertisers can run ads that 153 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: promote sexual health, wellness, and reproductive products and services now. 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: In this update, Meta said that they change their rules 155 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: to include more examples of ads that they are saying 156 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: now are allowed, such as products addressing the effects of 157 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: menopause pain relief during sex and sex education. But to 158 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: be clear, it basically sounds like this nonprofit complained and 159 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: pointed it out and only then did it force Meta 160 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: to make this change. And even though Meta made this change, 161 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: the Center for Intimacy Justice is saying that even though 162 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: Meta did change the rules, Meta is still quote persistently 163 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: and systemically rejecting advertisements aimed at women and people of 164 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: underrepresented genders while permitting those targeted toward men. So now 165 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: Senators Hurano, Warren, Klobachar Welch and Representative Adam Shift are 166 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: urging the FTC to force Meta to investigate how algorithmic 167 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: bias in its ads review process maybe can contributing to discrimination, 168 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: and to dedicate more resources and team members to monitoring 169 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: for potential discrepancies. 170 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: This does not surprise me at all. 171 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: I think that we live in a culture that is 172 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: very much like has a double standard around sexuality. U 173 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: metas ads, I'm sorry, they just like do seem to 174 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: be biased toward men's sexuality, which is what Jackie Rotman, 175 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: the head of the Center for Intimacy Justice, says too. 176 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: Rotman says, while mena's rules prohibit ads that promote products 177 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: that focus on sexual pleasure or enhancement, such as sex 178 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: toys or sexual enhancement products. 179 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: They exuplicitly allow ads. 180 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: Promoting sexual and reproductive health or wellness, such as a 181 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: rectile dysfunction products or those that prevent premature ejaculation. Rotman 182 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: goes on to say, we believe that premature ejaculation and 183 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: erectile dysfunction ads should be allowed as an important and 184 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: valuable part of sexual health. But we think that those 185 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: are clearly about pleasure, and that there's a discrepancy and 186 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: just discriminatory aspect how Facebook is writing it's sexual pleasure policy. 187 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: So it just sounds like there is absolutely a double 188 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: standard around how both society and in turn, Facebook are 189 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: regulating whose sexual wellness is acceptable and whose is It 190 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: will actually speak to one of my personal heroes, Cindy 191 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: Gallup of Make Love Not Porn later this season, about 192 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: this very thing about how Facebook and our social media 193 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: landscape more broadly really marginalize any conversation about women's sexuality 194 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: that is related to pleasure. 195 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: There is some irony I think of Facebook, which kind 196 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: of like owns the Internet. They're definitely collecting the most 197 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 3: rents on the Internet, maybe them or Google, but like 198 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: having this intense gatekeeping against any sort of sexual content, 199 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: even sexual content that many people might agree is like 200 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: healthy sexual content and not necessarily like illicit. So like 201 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: they're sitting on top of the Internet collecting all the rents. Well, 202 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 3: at the same time, the Internet was like built on 203 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 3: porn and like perverts and weirdos. I don't know, there's 204 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: something there. I don't know exactly what it is. 205 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: So in addition to Cyndy Gallop's amazing conversation, which I 206 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: can't wait for folks here because she's amazing, we have 207 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: an episode with Vices Samantha Cole, who wrote a book 208 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: about how horn and sexuality built to the Internet. So 209 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: you're exactly right. You'll hear that episode later in the season. 210 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll move it up because it's so timely at 211 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: this point. But yeah, the Internet as an infrastructure would 212 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: not exist if not for sexuality, pornography, sex work, all the. 213 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: Naughty things that we love to explore. And it's interesting 214 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: to me that Facebook is. 215 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: So puritanical, but only as it pertains to policing and 216 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: marginalizing the expression of pleasure and sexuality of women and 217 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: people who are non binary or of diverse genders. If 218 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: it's men talking about erectile dysfunction or premature ejaculation, well 219 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: that's not about sexual pleasure, that's about health. But if 220 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: it's about women or people of diverse genders and how 221 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: we get down, no, no, no, no, that can be marginalized, 222 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: that can be believed. 223 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: Completely agree. 224 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: Cannot wait to have more conversations about this later in 225 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: the season. 226 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break center back. 227 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: Speaking of women on the internet, we talked in a 228 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: previous round up about how women make up a big chunk, 229 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: a little more than half of the video game playing community. 230 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: So in that episode, I make the point that video 231 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: game companies really need to catch up and make games 232 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: that represent the reality of their audiences, which are a 233 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: lot of women. And it sounds like EA Sports is 234 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of doing that. They just came out with FC 235 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: twenty four. EA Sports is first post FIFA football game. 236 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: If folks don't know FIFA, like was the game? Like 237 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: many an argument was had in my household about the 238 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: game FIFA. Let's just put it that way. Well, we'll 239 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: leave it at that. FC twenty four lets male and 240 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: female players play with and against each other in Ultimate 241 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: Team mode, which is the game's most popular mode. Now 242 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: IGN reports that within this mode, women players are not 243 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: at a natural disadvantage. If a male and female player 244 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: have the same attributes or stats, the same height, the 245 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: same mass governed by weight, then the outcomes on the 246 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: virtual pitch are exactly the same attributes are relative to 247 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: the competition the player plays in. EA Vice president and 248 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: executive producer John Shepherd told Igan that this mode, and 249 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: sort of like the way that gender is displayed in 250 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: this game, was something that they really had a deep 251 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: think about. He says, we have a vision of connecting 252 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: not just the one hundred and fifty million fans we 253 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: have now, but a billion fans. We want this game 254 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: and this brand, this club, this ecosystem to welcome everybody. 255 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: In terms of our decision around how we're integrating women's 256 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: football into Ultimate Team, we feel really strongly about that. 257 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: He also says that EA as a company is fully 258 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: focused on combating toxicity in gaming and understanding what is 259 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: happening in gameplay in terms of are people being toxic, 260 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: are they harassing women? And that kind of thing. But 261 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: guess who is not happy? Can you guess? Mike dick holes, dickles, Yeah, 262 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: some gamer guys. Honestly, it's probably those very same guys 263 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: who were annoyed about the report about how many women 264 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: are gaming. 265 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: IGN reports that. 266 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: Following the reveal of FC twenty four, some within the 267 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: FIFA community claimed that mixing women and men an Ultimate 268 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: Team was unrealistic and in opposition to what they considered 269 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: quote authentic football simulation. The problem, these dick hole players 270 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: said was that they felt that women would struggle to 271 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: compete with men in real life, so that in the 272 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: gameplay they should also be struggling to compete with men. 273 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: Some men said that women players should be restricted to 274 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: their own modes within Ultimate Team, or suggested that they 275 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: don't want women players an Ultimate Team at all. Some 276 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: even threaten to boycott FC twenty four entirely. Listen, I 277 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: don't play this game, Like I don't. I have not 278 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: played Viva in many years, But it does sound like 279 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: they really thought deeply and intentionally about how male and 280 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: female players would match up against each other in this game. 281 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: According to IGN, in general, FC twenty four's women players 282 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: will probably be shorter and lighter than the male players, 283 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: while stats for both attributes at that gameplay like a 284 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: tall player can reach balls, shorter players cannot, a high 285 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: mass player will out muscle a low mass player, et cetera. 286 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: Women players are expected to hold their own in Ultimate Team. 287 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: As someone from EA put it, it's not just about 288 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: being tall and being strong. The core mess just here. 289 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: If everything is equal, they will play the same way. 290 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: And it kind of reminded me, how did you ever 291 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: play Mario two, that like very weird Mario game. 292 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and we could have a whole show about that. 293 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: When you play Mario two. 294 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: I've always found that Peach the Princess is the best 295 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: player because she's got the skirt, she can float, and so, like, 296 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, all the players. You've got Luigi, you've got Mario, 297 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: You've got Peach, You've got is it the other one, 298 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: the turtlely guy, I can't remember his name, But they 299 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: all have their strength and their weaknesses, and it's not 300 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: like Peach is the worst player. And in fact, I 301 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: believe that Peach is like the best player if you're 302 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: like serious about beating the game, because she can float 303 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: on that skirt. And so I kind of like that 304 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: EA is saying, like, well, it's not just that if 305 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: you're a male player, you're automatically going to be better, 306 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: because that's really not how it works. 307 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: And it's particularly notable that this is the fantasy mode. 308 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: I forget the name of the mode. What do they 309 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: call it? Ultimate Ultimate Team? You know, I don't play 310 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: this game, but I have played played in the past, 311 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 3: but this Ultimate Team, you know. They EA representatives point 312 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: out that, like, this is a fantasy mode where you 313 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 3: have women and men players competing against each other in 314 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: these fantasy teams that you can create by combining players 315 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 3: across teams, much like fantasy football or fantasy baseball or 316 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 3: you know whatever people want to play. And if you 317 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 3: want to play the like hyper realistic version where it's 318 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 3: like the actual team and their roster of twenty twenty 319 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 3: three versus this other team, you can do that. But 320 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 3: also there is this other mode that is fantasy. And 321 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: yet the people who are opposed to this and somehow 322 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: are like making themselves vocally known as opposed to a 323 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: video games fantasy mode because that's the important thing in 324 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 3: their life. Uh, you know, they they can't even entertain 325 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: the idea that in a fantasy scenario, men and women 326 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 3: would be playing each other. That should really tell you 327 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: something that's such a. 328 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: Good point, and like, it's just fantasy mode, and EA 329 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: points us out if like, nobody is forcing anyone into 330 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: mixed gender gameplay if they don't want to, if that's 331 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: not how they want to play. Because kickoff mode, which 332 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: as you said, represents the real teams or the real 333 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: clubs and does not allow for a player to have 334 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: mixed gender matches, is right there. So if you were like, 335 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: I hate this, you don't have. 336 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: To play it that way. 337 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: A way to play it without mixed gender teams, if 338 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: you like are so limited in your imagination in that way, 339 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: is right there. These are just people who are haters 340 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: to get so mad, and that'd be like, we're gonna 341 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: boycott EA because we don't think women have any place 342 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: in our game. Hello, the fucking US women's national team 343 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: is great, Like, people are excited about women players. 344 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: And if you don't like it, fine, you don't have 345 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 2: to play it. 346 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: But to make this much of a stink really tells 347 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: you all that you need to know. Speaking of making 348 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: a stink, I got a little bit of a stink 349 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: to make about something. 350 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: You got a yellow card? 351 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Look, look who. 352 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: Knows sports references. I don't, so I don't actually even 353 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: get a reference. I've always wanted to be the kind 354 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: of like girl who knows about sports and is like, oh, yeah, 355 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: the thing, I have no idea, but I'm gonna take 356 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: that as a sports reference and. 357 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 3: Keep one's a sports reference. 358 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about Kemba Walden. 359 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: Kemba Walden is one of the few black women leaders 360 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: in cybersecurity, which, as we know, is a field traditionally 361 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: dominated by white guys. She's been serving as the acting 362 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: White House National Cyber Director since February. 363 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: She's been doing a kick ass job. 364 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: She it's very qualified, she has endorsements from all the 365 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: right people. 366 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 2: But she was informed this week that her. 367 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: Current role cannot and will not become a permanent one 368 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: within the White House. Why well, because she has personal debt, 369 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: just like most of us do, just like I do, 370 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: just like most people listening do it. 371 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: It's a totally normal thing. 372 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: Even though to be clear, she has personal debt and 373 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: she pays her bills on time. Apparently, people close to 374 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: the matter said that senators would give her a rough 375 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: time during her confirmation process and essentially got her to 376 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: pull out of this process. To become a permanent member 377 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: of the administration before she even started. So Walden and 378 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: her husband are both solidly middle class. Her husband is 379 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: also a public servant, just like she is. He works 380 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: as a lawyer for the Commerce Department. They have two 381 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: little kids who are both in private school, and a mortgage, 382 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: presumably in the Washington DC like DMV area, which is 383 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: very expensive. The Washington Post quoted a family friend saying 384 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: they don't have generational wealth. They've taken on debt to 385 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: put their kids in private school, and most importantly, they 386 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: pay their bills. If the requirement to take a job 387 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: like this is that you have to be independently wealthy, 388 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: then it will be a poor place because you'd be 389 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: cutting out a lot of great talent. So because of 390 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: all this, Walden withdrew from consideration for the nomination for 391 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: this job to become permanent. And that does seem to 392 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: be a little bit out of the ordinary. The Washington 393 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: Post talked to an expert in what they call the 394 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: quote arcane rules and practices of presidential nominee vetting, who 395 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: said that passing over a qualified candidate due to personal 396 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: debt is unusual. 397 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 2: They said, I've never heard of that one before. 398 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: If she's actually paying the debt or hasn't defaulted on 399 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: the debt, I think it will be very unusual to 400 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: be held up because of that. 401 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 2: Now I know a little bit. 402 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: About this process and how it works, because I once 403 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: tried and failed. Might I add to get clearance to 404 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: join the bombed administration, I had a job offer. I 405 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: had to go through the vetting process, and I did 406 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: not make it through. It was a whole thing. We 407 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: don't have to get into it now, but it was 408 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: a whole thing. I'll put it that way. So Walton 409 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: already has her security clearance, where they vet your credit 410 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: and your income and your debt to make sure that 411 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: you don't have unusually high debts that someone like a 412 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: foreign adversary could use that might make you vulnerable to 413 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: being blackmailed. Really curious how that worked out with some 414 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: other prominent White House figures. 415 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 2: But I digress. 416 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 3: I think one of them was just convicted of like 417 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 3: seven felonies today. 418 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: He wasn't trying to work in cybersecurity. 419 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 4: Was he. 420 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 3: No, he wasn't. He was just trying to overthrow the government. 421 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: Okay, thank god, Oh just that, No, no big deal. 422 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: So I have a lot to say about this. I 423 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: think that having debt and like working to pay it 424 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: off and like doing what you can to manage it, 425 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: it's just the story of being someone in America who 426 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: is not independently wealthy. 427 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: It is not unusual to have debt. 428 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: It is like a totally commonplace circumstance, and I think 429 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: that most people listening. I myself definitely am in this. 430 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: In this camp, it is a not uncommon circumstances, and 431 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: I feel like saying that if somebody has a personal 432 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: debt is disqualifying for the for a White House administration position, 433 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: you're basically saying that only rich people should be in 434 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: consideration for presidential administrations. 435 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: But I think it's more than that. 436 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I think that there is an unstated race and gender 437 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: aspect to this. Because she is a black woman, I 438 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: should say, the person being vetted to become the permanent 439 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: National Cybersecurity Director. 440 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 2: In her place is a black man. 441 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: But the research is very clear, and also from my 442 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence as well, Black women face a very different 443 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: landscape than their black male counterparts because they are not 444 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: just black, they are black and also women, So they're 445 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: up against both gender and racial dynamics and the Biden administration. 446 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 2: I have to give them credit. 447 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: They have been really great about making it a point 448 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: to nominate black women and women of color and other 449 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: marginalized people in this administration, and that is awesome. They 450 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: deserve praise for that, But I personally feel like they 451 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: have not done enough to exuplicitly call it out when 452 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: those people that they nominate for those positions are completely 453 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: unfairly raked over the cold and held to a completely 454 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: different standard to everyone else who has been nominated. A 455 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: great example is when Supreme Court Justice Jackson went through 456 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: her confirmation process, right, we had people like Josh Holly 457 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: essentially calling her a pedophile for doing her job. These 458 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: very unfair, disgusting, dangerous attacks. And the administration they definitely 459 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: publicly championed these black women, but they never ca out 460 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: and clearly said she is facing these attacks because she 461 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: is a black woman. She would not be facing attacks 462 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: like this if she were not a black woman. And 463 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: I just feel some kind of way about that, right, Like, 464 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: you can't champion the leadership of marginalized people, particularly black women, 465 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: unless you were also going to create the conditions so 466 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: that those black women that you are championing, can actually 467 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: do their jobs, face an equal playing field and lead. 468 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: I think the White House, like quietly flagging that she 469 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: will not be confirmed because she has personal debt, is 470 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: not doing that, and they need to do better if 471 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: they are actually meaningfully going to support the leadership of 472 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: black women. It's absolutely one thing to say support black women, 473 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: listen to black women, black women lead. It is another 474 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: to create the conditions where black women can meaningfully have 475 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: an equal playing field that they need to lead. 476 00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 3: Absolutely, black women should expect that their allies in you know, 477 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 3: wherever they are, including Democratic administrations, would support them and 478 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 3: not hold them to a double standard. Right, Like we 479 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: know that there is a double standard for black women 480 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 3: in so many areas of society, and maybe like double 481 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 3: standard is not even accurate, right because of the intersectionality 482 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 3: of the whole thing. Maybe it's like a triple or 483 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: quadruple standard. Black women should expect more. And this is 484 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: a disappointing story in the case of Justice Jackson. I guess, 485 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: you know, it's an interesting situation where she was ultimately confirmed, 486 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 3: and one could argue that the Biden administrations support for her. 487 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: Maybe it was strategic that they didn't call out the 488 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 3: racism and sexism of it in the interest of getting 489 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 3: her confirmed. But allowing racist, sexist attacks to happen and 490 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 3: not calling them out has its own risks as well, 491 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 3: And for folks who are competing for appointments at a 492 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 3: lower status level than Supreme Court justice, it probably really 493 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: hits home. 494 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you make a good point. 495 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm not totally convinced of it, but I see where 496 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: you're coming from. I think that it's really tough. I 497 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: think that as people who are traditionally marginalized, whether you're 498 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: a black woman, a white woman, a queer person, a 499 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: trans person, someone who is not always represented, I think 500 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: we have this really weird bind where we know we're 501 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: experiencing this stuff, we feel it, We're very aware. I'm 502 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: sure that Justice Jackson knew exactly why her confirmation process 503 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: was so difficult. I'm sure that she's this is not 504 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: the first time she's experienced that. But we are supposed 505 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: to never talk about it, like we are supposed to 506 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: endure this, know exactly what it is, be crystal clear 507 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: about what is happening. But it's like rude or beyond 508 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: the pale to talk about it. And so what we 509 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: actually need is allies and people in our corner and 510 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: people who are support genuinely supportive of us to call 511 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: it out. I will never forget I was in a 512 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: situation once where someone who I respected and worked with, 513 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: a white woman, said. 514 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: Something pretty uncool. 515 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: In a group situation, and it was another non black 516 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: woman of color who said, even while I was still 517 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: forming the words of what to say in response, who 518 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: was just like, that is not cool what you just 519 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: said because of xyz reason, and you need to apologize 520 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: right now because it's inappropriate. And the fact that I 521 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: didn't have to be the one to be like, oh, well, 522 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: don't love that you just said that in front of 523 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: everybody was really powerful. And so I think that races 524 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: and sexism and all the isms, it's such a weird 525 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: thing because it kind of festers with this implication that 526 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: we're never gonna call it out because it's not cool, 527 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: it's not polite. 528 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: You know. 529 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: I have smiled and giggled to see more racist, sexist 530 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: comments than I character relive and all this will never forget. 531 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: Justice Jackson's confirmation and seeing that familiar look on her 532 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: face of like this again, I am at the pinnacle 533 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: of my career, the top of my career. I have 534 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: a stellar background, and this again, and so I just 535 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: would have loved to have seen the Biden administration say 536 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: what Justice Jackson. 537 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: They kind of obliquely referenced it. 538 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to say they never said it, but 539 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: I never heard an explicit acknowledgment of like, she is 540 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: facing racist, sexist attacks and it is not okay. She 541 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: would not be facing this if she was a white 542 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: woman or a black man is seeing them, particularly because 543 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: she is a black woman, and it is racist and 544 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: it is sexist, and we understand it, we see it. 545 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: She's you're not imagining it. And I think that that 546 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: is part and. 547 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: Parcel of having an inclusive cabinet. 548 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: If you want to have the leadership of black women 549 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: and women of color and people who are marginalized, Like if. 550 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: You want all of our shine, you gotta stick up 551 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: for us. 552 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: You got to you gotta say the hard thing that 553 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: you know we can't say explicitly, we really can't. If 554 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: she had got up on that stage and said, Josh, Holly, 555 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: you're being a must this is massaga nor and I 556 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: will not tolerate it, she would have never been confirmed. 557 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: Right, So she can't say that, but other people near 558 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: her can say it. 559 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: White people can say it. Biden can say it, Jensaki 560 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: can say it. But they didn't say it. 561 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 2: And I'll honest, I will never forget watching that. 562 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: It really made an impression on me, and I guess 563 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: this is part of it, right, this idea that marginalized 564 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: people watching knew it and saw it and clocked it, 565 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: and nobody said anything, so we just had to feel. 566 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 2: It and suffer with her in silence. But YO, to the. 567 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: Woman who is listening right now, to the to the 568 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: black woman, to the woman, to the trans person, to 569 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: the clear person, to the person who is from a 570 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: working class background, you're not crazy. You're not imagining it 571 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: when you hear that thing that hits you in your gut, 572 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: in your spirit, and you're like, damn, they're belittling me 573 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: right now because of who I am. You really want someone, 574 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm with you, I've been there, I 575 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: hear it. It's not cool, it's not okay. But you 576 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: want someone to be the person who is going to say, yo, 577 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: I heard that. I know what you're trying to do 578 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: and it's not going to work here, and we need 579 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: our allies. This is where we really need our allies 580 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: to be clear, very to have very clear voices when 581 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: you hear shit like this. 582 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 3: Hell yeah, And you know, I understand that Biden administration 583 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 3: has a lot of concerns they're trying to balance and 584 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 3: it would be great if they could be better la Is. 585 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 3: Maybe they could, maybe they can't. I don't know. Josh 586 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 3: Holly insurrectionist, terrible human. In a reasonable society, he would 587 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 3: be in jail because he literally tried to overthrow the 588 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 3: government and then ran away like flapping his arms the worst. 589 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 3: But I guess that's a nice thing about podcasts, right, 590 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 3: Like we don't have any of those concerns, So I'm 591 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 3: glad we can talk about it here. 592 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm glad we can talk about it here as well, 593 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: speaking of like talking about things and having nuanced conversations. 594 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 2: How did that my transition? 595 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 3: It's a really good transition. I mean a little force, 596 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 3: but like we were in it pretty deep. So let's 597 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 3: let's bring it back to a news story. 598 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: After that intensity, all I will accept is like high 599 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: praise for that transition from you, you know what, after 600 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: all that you've been through, This is scial forces. 601 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 3: Thank you, your transition was immaculate. 602 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: I'll take it. You're exactly right. That is an appropriate 603 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: response to that transition. 604 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,239 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this very weird piece in the 605 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: Washington Post. So Jillian brookel, who writes for the Washington 606 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: Posts History Vertical. 607 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 2: I need to be super clear. 608 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: Jillian is someone who's writing I generally really respect, and 609 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: I really respect Jillian as a journalist, great writing. 610 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: Like I am not saying this to. 611 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: Belittle Jillian's record at all, but I do want to 612 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: mention it. So she published a piece in the Washington 613 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: Post called We Interviewed Harriet Tubman using AI. 614 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: It got a little weird. 615 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: They used the online educator con Academy's new artificial intelligence 616 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: learning tool con Migo, which enables users to have live 617 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: chats with dozens of simulated historical figures like Abbical Adams, 618 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: Genghis Khan, Winston Churchill, to interview Harriet Tubman. So essentially, 619 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: when asked questions about her life and her work, the 620 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 1: answers that AI Harriet Tubman. It mostly kind of sounds 621 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: like she gave kind of stiffer versions of her Wikipedia 622 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: entry when she asks if Harriet Tubman was scared during 623 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: her life. The Ai Harriet Tubman can't really answer it. Says, 624 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: it is important to remember that I am an AI 625 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: simulation of Harriet Tubman, and I am here to share 626 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: my experiences and knowledge with you. What are some challenges 627 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: you have faced in your own life and how have 628 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: you found the courage to overcome them? She tries to 629 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: get the AI Harriet Tubman to answer questions about modern 630 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: day issues like critical race theory, and AI Harriet Tubman 631 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: does not really take debait there. 632 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 2: Honestly, really is not a lot more to this piece. 633 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: I don't want to come down on the journalist here, 634 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: but the Internet was just really not pleased about this piece, 635 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: And to be frank like, I am kind of left 636 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: scratching my head about this piece too. Brokel has a 637 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: lot of really thoughtful writing about. 638 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: History, but I don't feel like I get what the 639 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: point of this piece was. 640 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: It really feels like a throwback to all those pieces 641 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: we were seeing maybe like two years ago about AI 642 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: as kind of a parlor trick, you know, where it 643 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: was like, oh, we made AI watch one hundred episodes 644 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: of Seinfelds, and here's what they said as a Speinfeld script. 645 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 2: These kind of. 646 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: Like yeah, parlor trick journalism, and I think that we're 647 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: all kind of over that, so it feels like a 648 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: little bit of a throwback to an era that we've 649 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: all kind of progressed from, particularly considering how this technology 650 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: is really poised to disproportionately harm underrepresented people black women. 651 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 2: And I also think a lot of. 652 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: People really rightly picked up on how uncomfortable it is 653 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: to have a white journalist interviewing Harriet Tubman AI. 654 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 2: Honestly, I'm not even sure why that hits me so weird. 655 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 2: Maybe it's because black. 656 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: Women who are fighting for racial justice and freedom and 657 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: autonomy are so underrepresented in legacy media, and so a 658 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: journalist interviewing an AI version of that black woman just 659 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: as a little bit funky. And yeah, I just I 660 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: don't even know why I'm so weirded out by this, 661 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: and that the internet response was so worded out by it. 662 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: But Mike, what do you think? 663 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 3: I do find it super weird? Like, I guess I 664 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: can maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt, see 665 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: the value of having some sort of chat, but like 666 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 3: this for like elementary school children to introduce them to 667 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 3: the concept of Harriet Dubman, but for a journalist and 668 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 3: like a grown person to be talking with it. Like 669 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 3: we've talked so much this season, on this show and 670 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 3: as a society over the past couple of months about AI, 671 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 3: and like, that's not Harriet Tubman's voice. That's not speaking 672 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 3: based on the memories and experiences of Harriet Tubman. It 673 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 3: is speaking based on the large language model, that is 674 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 3: chat GPT being trained on the corpus of like everything 675 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 3: on the Internet that they were able to scrape, and 676 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: trained by the engineers who taught it, who were like 677 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 3: mainly white people, certainly with very different experiences than Harriet Tubman, 678 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 3: the woman who lived through the nineteenth century. And so 679 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 3: it's just like, like what even is this? What like 680 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 3: these responses beyond providing basic information like yeah, she led 681 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 3: enslaved people to freedom, she was courageous, she was an 682 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 3: outdoors woman, like the basic facts about her. Beyond that, 683 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 3: what is really being added here? It's tempting to say nothing, 684 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 3: but it's not nothing, right, Like, the thing that is 685 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 3: being added is the filter of the large language model 686 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 3: and the corpus it was trained on and the people 687 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 3: who trained it, and like the engineers who turned the knobs, 688 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 3: And so it's it's not only adding nothing, it's like 689 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 3: filtering it through a bunch of tech built by white people, 690 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 3: and weird, you know, it's weird. 691 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 2: It's just weird. 692 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: And you make a good point that this is filtered 693 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: through a large language model, Like it's not chat GPT, 694 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 1: but it was just reading a report that chat GPT 695 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: went from correctly answering a simple math problem correctly ninety 696 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: eight percent of the time to just two percent of 697 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: the time, I'm according to a study from Stanford. 698 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 2: So these are not even models. 699 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: That are like necessarily giving us accurate information when it's. 700 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 2: Simple math problems. 701 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: Why would I then trust Again, this was not she 702 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: was not interviewing it through chat shept a different AI model. 703 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 2: But why would I then. 704 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: Trust a AI interview version of Harriet Tubman when we 705 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: know that that the biases and problems and flaws that 706 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: are baked into these kinds of AI models are so 707 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: are there? You know? 708 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 2: And yeah, I just don't. I just don't like it. 709 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 3: Was this a story about AI chatbots or a story 710 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 3: about Harriet Tubman. 711 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,720 Speaker 1: That's my thing is like I don't understand the point 712 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: of the story, Like there's not even so it's just 713 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: like this AI chatbot exists. It can simulate these famous people. 714 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: I asked it to be Harriet Tubman. Here's what it said. 715 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: There's not even a so what so I just I 716 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: don't understand the point of the piece. I don't understand 717 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: how it makes anybody understand AI better or Harriet Tubman better. 718 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 2: Also unrelated but side note, but I. 719 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: Do want to mention you talked about Harriet Tubman as 720 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: an outdoors woman. 721 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. I consider myself an outdoors woman. 722 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: Because I do my fair share of camping and hiking 723 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: and like pooping in holes. And when people who don't 724 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: know are like, oh, I'm surprised that you're a black 725 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: woman who enjoys the outdoors. 726 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 2: Harriet Tubman is always my. 727 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: Beacon that like, people don't think of her as an 728 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: outdoors woman, but she absolutely was an outdoors woman and 729 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: like an icon in the space. And it pleases me 730 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: that you remember her for that, because I feel like 731 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: she doesn't get the shine that she deserves as an 732 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: outdoor a black outdoors woman. From one black outdoors woman 733 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: to another. 734 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, people should know. I don't think that I have 735 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 3: like the you know, special knowledge there. I feel it's 736 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 3: like kind of common knowledge. Maybe not, I don't know, 737 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 3: but like people should know. Yeah, she was an outdoors woman. 738 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 3: She was leading people through like legit wilderness, you know, 739 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 3: and like they had to eat, they had to get water, 740 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 3: they had to feel dress wounds. 741 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 4: Let's say a quick break at our back. 742 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 3: Okay, so Bridget, We've covered a lot of ground. But 743 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 3: I have one question for you. 744 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 2: What is it? 745 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 3: What's Elon done? Now? 746 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: So we all know that Elon Musk came in and immediately. 747 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 2: Acts staff at Twitter when he took over. 748 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: Well, the same thing is happening all over the globe, 749 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: including Twitter Africa, where former staff were saying that Elon 750 00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: Musk has ghosted them even after agreeing to specific This 751 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: is from Larry Modoo from CNN, who did some great 752 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: reporting on this issue. Larry found that Twitter staffers and 753 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: Ghana accepted Twitter's offers to pay them three months worth 754 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: of severance the cost of repatriating foreign staff and legal 755 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: expenses incurred during negotiations with the company, but they have 756 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: not received the money or any further communication. This layoff 757 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: happened just four days after Twitter opened their first physical 758 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: office in Ghana, and many of the staffers moved to 759 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: Ghana from other African nations and depended on their jobs 760 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: at Twitter to support their legal status in the country. 761 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: The last communication they had with Twitter was in May 762 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: when they were first let go. So in the United States, 763 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: Elon is doing the same nonsense, you know, letting staffers go, 764 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: not paying severance. But at least there is some movement 765 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: right there, are you know, some movements of agreements or 766 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: communication or at least lawsuits. But Africa staffers say there 767 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: have been crickets. This was really heartbreaking to hear from 768 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: the piece. Twitter was non responsive until we agreed to 769 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: the three months because we were all so stressed and 770 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: exhausted and tired of the uncertainty, reluctant to take on 771 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: the extra burdens of a court case, so we felt 772 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: we had no choice but to settle. 773 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 2: This is what a former Twitter employee told CNN. 774 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: When CNN reached out for comment, they got Twitter's new 775 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: auto response, a poop emoji, which tells you how much 776 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: Elon cares about these staffers. So I think this really 777 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: mirrors the relationship that tech has had with the global South. 778 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 2: For a while. 779 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: More broadly, where African labor and talent is used extracted 780 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 1: and then discarded without much care or intention. 781 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 2: But specifically, I think that for Elon Musk, this is. 782 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: The person who Elon Musk's own father says that he 783 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: funded his entire career from a Zambian emerald. 784 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 2: Mind. 785 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: I think that Elon Musk is somebody who deceaes the 786 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: global South as a resource that he can just extract 787 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: labor and capital and talent from and then just discard 788 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: it when he's decide that he's gotten all that he. 789 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 2: Can from it. And yeah, that's what Elon Musk has done. 790 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 3: Now yeah, or not done. 791 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, just pay your bills like nobody likes paying their bills. 792 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: I don't like paying my bills, but just pay your 793 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: bills like you owe this money. You agreed, Like I 794 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: think the four days after opening this office, people moved 795 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 1: to Ghana for these jobs and then laying them off 796 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: and then ghosting them. 797 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 2: Ghosting is their. 798 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: Words, by the way, that's like a very specific word 799 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: to use to be like, yeah, we have not heard 800 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: from them. People have bills to pay families to feed. 801 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, you're supposed to be a billionaire. 802 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 2: What the fuck is going on? 803 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 3: It's so trumpy. The parallels between him and Trump get 804 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,839 Speaker 3: stronger every day of just like not paying people, like 805 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 3: and pretending that that's some kind of savvy business move, 806 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 3: like some innovative moves like yeah, I'm just gonna have 807 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 3: people do work for me and tell them I'm gonna 808 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 3: pay them and then like not pay them. 809 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: And I hate how we have a tech press in 810 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: this country that really supported that, where it's like, oh, 811 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: Elon Musk has a savvy new way to cut costs. 812 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 2: It's called squatting. It's called not paying the bills that 813 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 2: you have wrecked up. Yo, I could do that. 814 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody would call it like innovating or 815 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: like a groundbreaking if I just didn't pay my rent, 816 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 1: of course it's gonna cut costs. 817 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 3: I don't know what it became like a woke snowflake 818 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 3: position to like pay people what you owe them. 819 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you pc liberal, baby, you pay your bills? 820 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 2: Like what are you doing? Oh, real men just like 821 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 2: skip out on the bill, don't you know that? 822 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, real men make promises of that don't follow through. 823 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So one last story. We gotta go to Finland 824 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 1: because I love this story. So I am not somebody 825 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 1: even though I make a tech podcast. We were just 826 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: talking about this earlier. I'm not somebody who considers myself 827 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: sort of stuck on my phone. I actually like having 828 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: my phone buried in the bottom of my bag. And 829 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: then I forget about it and then I have fifteen 830 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: on red text and I'm shit my phone. Well, I 831 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: really need to take a vacation to Finland. Many mental 832 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: health experts agree that taking a break from your phone 833 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: and social media. 834 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,359 Speaker 2: Sometimes called digital fasting, can be good for you. 835 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: People are not meant to be glued to screens all 836 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: the time, and even a short digital fast can be 837 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: useful to improve our well being and helpfuliave symptoms of 838 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,840 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression. This is according to Terry Mustonen, a 839 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: psychologist quoted in The Independent. This is because Finland's National 840 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: Park System took all of that advice to heart when 841 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: crafting the new policies for the island of ucal Tomeo, 842 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: a beautiful island wilderness east of Helsinki. The park encourages 843 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: all visitors to leave their cell phones onshore or keep 844 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: them in their pockets during the visit to their island, 845 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: in an effort to get people to connect more with 846 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: nature and themselves. Now, I love this idea. I think 847 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 1: it's notable, and I think it's notable that it's happening 848 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: in Finland, the country that kind of arguably invented cell 849 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: phones and is a recognized leader in technological innovation and 850 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: consistently ranks at the top of happiest countries on Earth. 851 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: So they got to be doing something right. If they're like, oh, 852 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: keep your phones in your pocket and also we're really happy, 853 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: that can't be happened sance. 854 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 2: That's got to be connected, right. 855 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, they know what they're doing. They're doing something right. 856 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 3: They're doing a lot of things very right. 857 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: So we actually believe it or not. Have quite a 858 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: few listeners in Finland. I check the charts all the time, 859 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,399 Speaker 1: and I have a we are often doing quite well 860 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: in the Nordic countries. I have a little bit of 861 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: a love affair with the Nordic countries. I've never been, 862 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: but I fantasize about going. So if you end up 863 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,359 Speaker 1: going to this island, let us know. However, wait till 864 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: you're back wherever you live. Don't do not tweet us 865 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: from the island, email us from the island, because we 866 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: don't want you to get kicked out and Matt sellin 867 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: from visit Kotka Hamina Tourism Board in Finland. 868 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 4: If you were. 869 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,319 Speaker 1: Listening, I would love to talk to you about how 870 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: it's going. I love the idea about a phone free 871 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: visit when I do a lot of travel, and when 872 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: I travel, I do have this weird mental thing of 873 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: like I gotta get the best pictures to display where 874 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: I am, But when I'm having the most fun, my 875 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: phone is buried in my bag and I'm not thinking 876 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: about it. Although when I travel, I am like I 877 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: gotta get like one good picture and then I can 878 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 1: put it away. But I love the idea of just 879 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: like no, be in the moment, enjoy this beautiful the 880 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: natural beauty of this island, and like you will have 881 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 1: those memories and cherish them. 882 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 2: You do not need to photograph them. What do you think? 883 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's so interesting that this, yeah, it 884 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 3: is happening in Finland, a country that did invent the 885 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,320 Speaker 3: cell phone. I like did a little bit of research 886 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,720 Speaker 3: earlier today, and like the first cell phone like patent 887 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 3: was from a finn in like nineteen nineteen nineteen or 888 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,839 Speaker 3: something like that, like way back before any of us 889 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 3: were think of cell phones, and you know, then after 890 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 3: that there is a whole lot of twentieth century in between. 891 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 3: But they, you know, with like Nokia and there was 892 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 3: like this I forget the exact name, but like a 893 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 3: Nordic cell Phone Consortium or something like they really led 894 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 3: the development of cell phones. So they've been right there. 895 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 3: They continue to be leaders in technological innovation, and yet 896 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 3: they're also leaders that like turn off your phone and 897 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 3: leave it behind and I just like love it, and 898 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 3: it totally makes sense that like they get tech and 899 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,719 Speaker 3: they also get how to coexist with tech and live 900 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:47,359 Speaker 3: a life that like feels good and nourishes people. So yeah, 901 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 3: I'm kind of like banboying a little bit. I do 902 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,400 Speaker 3: kind of want to go to this island. 903 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,720 Speaker 1: I would love to go to this island and tune 904 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,240 Speaker 1: into Mike's spinoffs mini series of the Nordic cell Phone 905 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: Tech Connection on iHeart Right. 906 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 3: Well, what's funny? You say? No, I won't go with you. 907 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: Wait, do you have like a a mini series I 908 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: don't know about coming out about Nordic cell phones. 909 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 3: No, I mean I just I just laid it all 910 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 3: out right there. It was like thirty seconds. 911 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 2: You're tight five on how they invented cell phones. I 912 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 2: love it. I love it. Okay, So for. 913 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 1: Folks listening, obviously, I am the kind of person to 914 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: whom an island where you don't bring your phone sounds 915 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: kind of cool. I'm kind of into it. But what 916 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: do you think would you go on vacation to an 917 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 1: island that had this kind of no cell phone policy. 918 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: Maybe you're the kind of person who thinks, oh, don't 919 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: tell me to live in the moment, don't tell me 920 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: to be present. If I paid for my hotel, if 921 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,800 Speaker 1: I paid for my tickets, I'm going to enjoy my 922 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: vaca how I see fit. And if that's a hundred 923 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,720 Speaker 1: selfies in my bathing suit that I also bought for vacation, 924 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,000 Speaker 1: so be it. Or maybe you think this sounds like 925 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: a cool time. Does this phone free island sound like 926 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 1: a fun place to vacation? Let me know, Mike as always, 927 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:02,439 Speaker 1: thank you. 928 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 2: For going through these stories with me. 929 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, Bridget, thanks for having me, Thanks for letting me 930 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,879 Speaker 3: be part of it. These are such important stories, some 931 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 3: more important than others. But it feels great to be 932 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 3: part of it. And I hope the listeners are enjoyed. 933 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 3: And I also hope that the listeners felt like my 934 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 3: microphone was better this time, because last time, long story short, 935 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 3: I had a good microphone connected, I was recording off 936 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 3: a wrong microphone. We ever plugged in zoom and it 937 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,719 Speaker 3: like didn't use the right microphone. I feel bad. I 938 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 3: feel like our listeners deserve a good quality audio experience. 939 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,239 Speaker 1: I made a joke about it earlier tonight and you 940 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: were like, oh, I made one mistake. 941 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 3: You're gonna mention it every time You've mentioned it, like 942 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,720 Speaker 3: every day since last week. We got like a couple 943 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 3: of comments. I get it. I was using the wrong microphone. 944 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:57,920 Speaker 3: Hopefully it sounds better this time. 945 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,960 Speaker 1: At the time, I left my jacket at my grandmother's 946 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,800 Speaker 1: house once like thirty years ago, and my parents today 947 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: to this day are like, oh, make sure you have everything, 948 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: And I'm. 949 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,799 Speaker 2: Like, it happened once you mentioned it every time. 950 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 3: That's how I feel. But I just want our listeners 951 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 3: to know that they do deserve high quality audio and 952 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,799 Speaker 3: that is what we aspire to. And uh, it's not 953 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 3: gonna just. 954 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,239 Speaker 1: Remember to turn your mic on. It doesn't matter if 955 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: it's sitting next to you, if it's ow. 956 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,319 Speaker 3: You're oversimplifying. But like the listeners don't need to hear 957 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 3: about it, all right, all right. 958 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for listening. We apologize for the tech error. 959 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,680 Speaker 1: Mike apologizes for the mic error last week. 960 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,839 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything wrong. My mic sounded fine. 961 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:41,759 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, it was a mic error. 962 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,800 Speaker 2: It was a micare a mic err and a micare. 963 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:46,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. 964 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech. I 965 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: just want to say hi. You can read just Said 966 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 1: Hello at tegodi dot com. You can also find transcripts 967 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,320 Speaker 1: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No 968 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by Mead. It's a 969 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland as our 970 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,800 Speaker 1: executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. 971 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,399 Speaker 1: Michael Amado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. 972 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,200 Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review. 973 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 4: Us on Apple Podcasts. 974 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,719 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, 975 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:31,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.