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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Buying. The Bastards stop the podcast you're listening to right

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Speaker 2: right now, worst people in all of history. We tell

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Speaker 2: you all about them, and you know, this has been

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Speaker 2: a rough year for a lot of us. Here behind

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Speaker 2: the Bastards, we've talked about a lot of pedophiles, and

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Speaker 2: I'm tired of talking about pedophiles. There are pedophiles in

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Speaker 2: this episode, but they're not the primary focus of the episode.

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Speaker 2: Jamie Loftus, how are you doing the day? I'm sorry for.

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Speaker 3: Work, and today we're talking to the biggest one of

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Speaker 3: them all, and we the White Well.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I wanted to go right into the title,

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Speaker 2: but then I hadn't introduced you, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I should introduce Jamie before the title. But I also

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Speaker 2: party was like, should I introduce the title and then

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Speaker 2: bring in Jamie. I don't know I did it the

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Speaker 2: wrong way.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure about the one complaint at the start here, Robert,

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Speaker 4: why are you not wearing a hat?

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Speaker 2: I don't like cats.

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Speaker 3: It's true, where's your statement hat?

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Speaker 2: So I don't have a statement hat? But Jamie, you

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Speaker 2: are wearing a Theorrhose hat right now?

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Speaker 3: Which am a well worn one?

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Speaker 2: A well worn one around the clock. Yes, homes sweat

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Speaker 2: through that thing she was waiting to hear she just

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Speaker 2: died it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I actually contributed to her bail fund and she

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Speaker 3: mailed this to me iconic.

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Speaker 4: I'm wearing a hat that fit little very appropriate for

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Speaker 4: today's episode.

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Speaker 3: It's this Disappointment Awaits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're both going to get what you want

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Speaker 2: today because we are Jamie talking about a Silicon Valley

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Speaker 2: cult led by a female grifter. And best of all,

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Speaker 2: it's an orgasm cult. It's an orgasm cult. Everybody beautiful.

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Speaker 3: And then the crowd bursts into a clause. They're like,

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Speaker 3: you muscled through six weeks of pedophile to get to

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Speaker 3: the orgasm cult.

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Speaker 2: We did it, folk, Yeah, yeah, thank god. It's like

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Speaker 2: washing your face in a stream only Actually, this is

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Speaker 2: very abusive and a lot of people get hurt.

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Speaker 4: Oh it is behind buddy Disappointment Awaits.

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Speaker 2: But we get to laugh at like Silicon Valley's starter

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Speaker 2: fucking shit getting mixed in with like traditional cult abuse techniques.

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Speaker 2: It's very fun, and we love.

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Speaker 3: To see women in a leadership role.

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Speaker 2: Exactly a woman who is who is really really hurting

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Speaker 2: and taking advantage of a lot of men in a

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Speaker 2: way that does even the scales on this show somewhat

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Speaker 2: like if You're just interesting. It starts the process after

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Speaker 2: she goes through a lot of guys after.

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Speaker 3: Specter and Savel.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, I mean Sable abuses a lot of

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Speaker 2: boys too, Sophie.

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Speaker 3: That's fair.

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Speaker 4: But I want to hear about a woman.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear it. Yes, so we're going to Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna guess you. There's a good chance you haven't heard

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Speaker 2: her name. She's Nicole to done like like d A

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Speaker 2: E D O N E.

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Speaker 4: How many times is the word clatorus in the script?

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Speaker 3: I see it in the lot?

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Speaker 2: I see it.

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Speaker 3: Can we get a control off on this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just got really excited.

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Speaker 2: I avoided it, but I used a couple of synonyms.

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Speaker 2: So here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: Well times, how many times is vagina in the script?

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Speaker 3: Only six? Only?

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Speaker 2: The cult is based around this. Lady comes up with

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Speaker 2: a It has an idea that like, if you get

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Speaker 2: a bunch of women in a room and you have

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Speaker 2: a partner masturbate them in a room, sometimes with hundreds

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Speaker 2: of people watching, it creates this sort of like magical

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Speaker 2: energy effect that has a bunch of health benefits.

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Speaker 3: It's like an operating theater approach to Cummings.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what they do. That's exactly the heart of

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Speaker 2: the grift, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, listening.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be really fun. So what's also really fun

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Speaker 2: about this is that this practice getting all these people

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Speaker 2: in a room. I mean sometimes it was one person

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Speaker 2: at a time, but masturbating people in public totally detached

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Speaker 2: from sex. Right. Number one, it is only vaginas and

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Speaker 2: clatorus is being like manipulated, right, Like, that's the This

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Speaker 2: is not like a multi organ kind of deal. And

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Speaker 2: number two, this is not supposed to be erotic by

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Speaker 2: the end of it. By like the Silicon Valley stage

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Speaker 2: of the grift, we're treating this like you're taking like

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Speaker 2: a bulletproof coffee. And by the way, the bulletproof coffee

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Speaker 2: guys endorsed this business. So so many beautiful crossovers.

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Speaker 3: Ooh oh god. Yeah, anytime you have a Silicon Valley grift,

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Speaker 3: you have some incredible side players. Always a great series

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Speaker 3: of Tim Farris shows up.

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Speaker 2: It's awesome. Really Yeah, we get Tim Ferris. We don't

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Speaker 2: get a Navy seal. I was bummed about that, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: I was hoping one of those navy seals who sells

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Speaker 2: like energy bars would be in this picture, but no,

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Speaker 2: tragically not.

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Speaker 3: Oh this is okay, So the it's sex, but it's

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Speaker 3: not sex. So it's moorse than sex.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's way worse than sex, and it's not

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Speaker 2: supposed to be sexy. By the end, this does start

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Speaker 2: with a bunch of dudes in like the seventies, who

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Speaker 2: it very much is about sex for. But before we

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Speaker 2: get to the dudes in the seventies, we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to have a little talk because it's very relevant about

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Speaker 2: the patterns that these this group that's supposed to be

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Speaker 2: kind of like breaking the mold and making this like

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Speaker 2: women centric and not abusive fall into. We're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to talk about the history of the female orgasm in

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Speaker 2: popular awareness and medical conception. Right, Okay, there was.

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Speaker 3: A part of me that thought you were going to say,

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Speaker 3: we have to talk about the clittorus. Where is it?

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Speaker 3: How do I find it? Is it just all on

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Speaker 3: the same page.

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Speaker 2: It's like a laser point.

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Speaker 3: It's right, thing, just mining, So let's talk about it, ladies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my sex, said was so bad growing

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Speaker 2: up in Texas. I'm fairly certain I learned about the

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Speaker 2: clitterists from the South Park movie. I think that was

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Speaker 2: my first encounter with it when I was like nine

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Speaker 2: or ten something like that.

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Speaker 4: I said, I took it over summer school, and they

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Speaker 4: just showed us multiple horrific birthing scenes.

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Speaker 2: Oh great, Yeah, we did see one of those, just

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Speaker 2: not one, not two, maybe four.

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Speaker 3: God, well, at least they put in the hours. I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I saw one birth video, but no, I didn't even

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Speaker 3: get like period information. And it was like a running

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Speaker 3: joke in my town. How the fact that they did

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Speaker 3: not invest in sex ed But uh, I went to

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Speaker 3: this massive high school where there was a daycare at

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Speaker 3: the high school, and you just have to think one perhaps,

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Speaker 3: but some things my connected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember. I don't think they even told us

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Speaker 2: orgasms at all existed. They told us that, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: how the active intercourse happens physically and that it feels good.

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Speaker 2: And I don't even think I think they're supposed to

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Speaker 2: tell us about like semen. But I think the gym,

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Speaker 2: the coach that was giving the lesson was way too awkward,

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Speaker 2: so he just kind of breezed right past it. We

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Speaker 2: didn't hear anything about that.

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Speaker 3: It's a part of the great American tradition to be

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Speaker 3: full of visceral fear and think you're dying the first

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Speaker 3: time you come.

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Speaker 2: It's important, Yes, it's really crucial stuff. So for as

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Speaker 2: long as there have been people, we've understood that sex

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Speaker 2: at least could potentially be very enjoyable for both participants,

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Speaker 2: right like that, people have been aware that it can

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Speaker 2: be fun, even if they've hated the idea of that.

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Speaker 2: But there's also been this understanding that people with penises

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Speaker 2: and people with vagina's experienced these pleasures somewhat differently at first.

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Speaker 2: So far as I can tell, I don't think there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of controversy about this idea. In ancient

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Speaker 2: Greek mythology, Hera and Zeus are said to have argued

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Speaker 2: over whether or not men enjoyed sex more than women,

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Speaker 2: and Zeus, who is a prolific rapist, argue that women

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Speaker 2: seem to take more pleasure in the act, and Haar

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Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I'm not surprised you said that, But

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Speaker 2: then she was like, obviously, guys enjoy it more. That's

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Speaker 2: why you're doing all the shit you're doing. Zeus, the

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Speaker 2: wide stage, Tyresius was brought in to give like an

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Speaker 2: answer to kind of adjudicate this, and he was like,

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Speaker 2: women feel nine or ten times as much pleasure as men.

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Speaker 2: So he agreed with Zeus, and Harah did some really

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Speaker 2: mean things to him. She did not like that.

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Speaker 4: Not to be honest, I didn't know zeus slander was

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Speaker 4: on the calendar for today.

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Speaker 2: Zeus Slander's always.

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Speaker 3: Slander is absolutely always on the calendar, and we do

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Speaker 3: talk about him like he is a guy that was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just a dude, yeah, like we met

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Speaker 2: him at a cinemon.

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Speaker 4: My only compliment to Zeus is that story about when

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Speaker 4: Zeus birthed somebody from his forehead, and that's how I

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Speaker 4: think I got Anderson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh there you go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I like the one where he turns into like a

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Speaker 2: swan to have sex with a swan because he just

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Speaker 2: sees a swan that's so hot. But he's like, I

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Speaker 2: can't do this as a guy, like I gotta be

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Speaker 2: a swan.

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Speaker 4: First of all, a swan's not nice. Second of all,

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Speaker 4: no beautiful.

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Speaker 2: M sure that's what Zeus said. Because the United States

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Speaker 2: is a culture that was heavily influenced by Puritanism and

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Speaker 2: generations in which women were shamed and ostracized for even

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Speaker 2: sexual contact that they had no choice in. It's easy

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Speaker 2: to see that like, oh, the Greeks were like way

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Speaker 2: more sex positive than like their Western descendants were thousands

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Speaker 2: of years later, right that, like, well, that seems like

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Speaker 2: at least a more sex positive view, even though that's

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Speaker 2: still kind of messed up, and there are some ways

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Speaker 2: in which that's true. But Assistant professor of Classics an

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Speaker 2: editor for the journal idol On Tara Mulder makes an

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Speaker 2: important point about what this myth was really saying, and

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Speaker 2: this is relevant to everything that winds up happening in

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Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley days of this fucking sex cult. If

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Speaker 2: the ancient Greeks were supposed to take a message or

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Speaker 2: learn a lesson from this myth, it was that women

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Speaker 2: were the lucky ones when it came to sex. Women

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Speaker 2: could be assumed to always want sex, and when they

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Speaker 2: got it, to enjoy it substantially more than men, giving

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Speaker 2: rise to the need for men to control sexual interactions.

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Speaker 2: Sexuality of women, the companion to the ancient Greek and

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Speaker 2: Roman idea that women enjoy sex more than men, is

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Speaker 2: the ancient idea that women are sexually ravenous and insatiable,

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Speaker 2: their sexual appetites couldn't be trusted and had to be

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Speaker 2: rained in by male guardians. So that's going to actually

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Speaker 2: be relevant to every every modern day orgasm cold, all

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Speaker 2: of which are again wrapped in like this is all

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Speaker 2: about the women, and all of us are going to

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Speaker 2: wind up recreating that like ancient Greek and Roman shit

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Speaker 2: like it's crazy, how it's nothing shanges.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, so we already have this is maybe a

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Speaker 3: record for being Robert of like, we can't talk about

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Speaker 3: this before we talk about ancient Greek mythology, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: we gotta. I fully believe it. I fully believe it.

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Speaker 3: So is this I'm guessing this is like, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is actually about like women and women's pleasure yep. And

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Speaker 3: women are obsessed with being controlled and need to be

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Speaker 3: controlled and that's actually hot and liberating.

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Speaker 2: It's it's a little more complicated and honestly dumb than that, Jamie,

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Speaker 2: But I don't want to spoil how dumb it is.

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Speaker 3: A sex cult is going to be better. This is

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Speaker 3: this is instructive.

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Speaker 2: This is critical to understand before you start a sex cult.

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Speaker 2: And there's a couple more things that we need to

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Speaker 2: understand before we get into this, because there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of patterns the Greeks setup that we just never get

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Speaker 2: free of here in the West, at least. So the

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Speaker 2: sage Ovid advised his readers that women had a nasty

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Speaker 2: tendency to say no when they meant yes. Like he's

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Speaker 2: kind of the first guy in the Western canon to

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Speaker 2: be like a no, it's not a no, bra Like

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Speaker 2: that's that's Ovid, right, And this is endemic all over

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Speaker 2: ancient culture, just as it is like today. Hippocrates, the

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Speaker 2: father of Western medicine, weighed in on the pleasure debate

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Speaker 2: and essentially agreed with Tyresius, and through his descendants, medieval

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Speaker 2: Europe inherited the belief that female pleasure aided in conception.

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Speaker 2: The term orgasm didn't exist, but they knew what one was,

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Speaker 2: and they thought it made pregnancy more likely. That like,

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Speaker 2: if she enjoys it, you're likely to conceive a child.

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Speaker 2: That was like the widespread understanding in medieval Europe, which

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Speaker 2: breaks a pretty important misconcent about medieval life, right that,

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Speaker 2: like they were frightened and ignorant of sex because they

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Speaker 2: weren't nearly as ignorant as a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: would come later. For one thing, everyone lives in the

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Speaker 2: same room, see, like know where kids come from, right,

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Speaker 2: Like there's no missing that.

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Speaker 3: You see them being created.

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Speaker 2: Con Yeah, you're you're aware of how things work. There's

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Speaker 2: no like telling it. There's no getting kids to like

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Speaker 2: think that sex is not normal, like if you're growing

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Speaker 2: up in that environment. Several Catholic scholars, in fact discussed

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Speaker 2: prostitution positively. There was an idea around like Catholic theology

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Speaker 2: in this time that like you kind of need prostitutes

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Speaker 2: for society to work, that if they don't exist, things

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Speaker 2: go crazy. Like that was like a fairly widespread idea

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Speaker 2: among some circles. And there were even monks and nuns

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Speaker 2: who published work that was explicitly about sex. One example

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Speaker 2: was Constantine the African, a twelfth century figure who wrote

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Speaker 2: a book about sex, de Koitu on Sexual Intercourse. He

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Speaker 2: was actually translating the work of Muslim scholars, is often

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Speaker 2: the case with stuff like this. It been Al Jazzer,

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Speaker 2: but he filed that guy's name off of the paper

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Speaker 2: for obvious reasons. He was just like, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: cut this red off. Just put this out on her.

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Speaker 2: My name's my fuck book.

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Speaker 3: Don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: This is my book about sex. Don't think about it.

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Speaker 2: Per a blog called Constantinus Africanus by Monica H. Green,

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Speaker 2: It opens very clearly stating that sexual function was established

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Speaker 2: by the creator himself to ensure the propagation of all species,

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Speaker 2: For if animals disliked intercourse, all the species of animals

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Speaker 2: would certainly have perished. Pretty hard to argue with. Many

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Speaker 2: of the same frank attitudes towards sexuality can be found

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Speaker 2: in others of Constantine's works. In fact, we find in

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Speaker 2: later manuscripts of the Constantinian Corpus a short work on

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Speaker 2: the potential harms and benefits of sexual intercourse, called again

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Speaker 2: the Liber Minor de Quoitu the Little Book of Intercourse.

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Speaker 2: That's that's all kind of fun, right, that's all interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, if you were so, like what Pad goes

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Speaker 3: way back, everyone's always been writing there for you, little thing.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Ever specially think Avid is like spouting the game.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, the first pick up artist.

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Speaker 3: He's like, no, no, they love it, dude, they love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, huge fans, So Jazzer wrote about sex, but he

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Speaker 2: wrote about it purely from the male standpoint, and to

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Speaker 2: the extent that Constantine was interested in gathering research about

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Speaker 2: sexual stealing, research about sexual pleasure. It was only stuff

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Speaker 2: from the male perspective. But they weren't the only intellectuals

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Speaker 2: weighing in on the subject. At the same time, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna love this this lady, both of you are. She's awesome.

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Speaker 2: One of my sources for these episodes is the History

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Speaker 2: of Women medium page by Mary Devrai, and she wrote

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Speaker 2: a really good article on a contemporary of Constantine's, a

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Speaker 2: twelfth century Benedictine nun named Hildegard of Bingen.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm like, she's so my buzzwords today. She's just

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Speaker 4: is the non fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: She's she's a horny nune. But more than that, she's

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Speaker 2: every now and then. You like read about someone in

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Speaker 2: history and they're from long enough to good that you

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Speaker 2: don't get a ton of granular detail, but you can

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Speaker 2: just tell like, oh, you were smart as fuck, like

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Speaker 2: you were a genius. And that's Kilda Guard. So she

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Speaker 2: she comes into life, she's born into a rich family,

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Speaker 2: but she had that doesn't mean she has any choice

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Speaker 2: or agency in her life. It actually means the opposite, right,

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Speaker 2: because during this time, her family's very religious, and at

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Speaker 2: this period of time, if you're super religious, it's normal

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Speaker 2: to tie the tenth of what you have to the church.

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Speaker 2: And that's not just money. In this age, that means like,

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Speaker 2: if you have ten kids, you're given one of them

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Speaker 2: to the priesthood or to be a monk, or to

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Speaker 2: be a nun.

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Speaker 3: Right like normal that is extended to flesh for.

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Speaker 2: The very religious. Right. I'm not gonna say every family's

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Speaker 2: doing that, but a number of them are. That's why

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Speaker 2: there's so many people in the church. Right she can

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Speaker 2: get to ten, Yeah, we get the ten, we'll give

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Speaker 2: one to God. And her parents were also may have

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Speaker 2: been motivated. She started seeing visions at age three, so

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Speaker 2: that may have been part of why they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: she's probably be in the church. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I want to deal with this. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: what was going on there, and I actually don't know.

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Speaker 2: Part of me wonders was she seeing visions or did

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Speaker 2: she realize that if she had visions and talked about them,

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Speaker 2: she could manipulate her circumstances to improve them. And I

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Speaker 2: kind of think that may have been what's going on,

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Speaker 2: because the visions are always very conveniently articulated to get

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Speaker 2: her what she wants. My interpretation of her story is

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Speaker 2: that the latter is more likely. But yeah, I'm an

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Speaker 2: atheist in a scallawagon. I like to see like a

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Speaker 2: clever underdog find a way to win in a religion

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Speaker 2: that's stacked against them. Like, I think that's fun.

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Speaker 3: That feels like, so you know, that's like the history

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Speaker 3: of women in religion is like, oh, actually a God

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Speaker 3: told me so you actually it's like the only It's

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Speaker 3: like when I am trying to get someone to listen

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Speaker 3: to me, and I just respond and like from a

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Speaker 3: separate email and be like, Hi, I'm Kevin Jamie's representatives.

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Speaker 4: Kevin is such a great fake guy name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Kevin's a person fake guy name.

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Speaker 3: Could be a guy that's a great negotiator, Kevin. If

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Speaker 3: you ever get an email from Kevin, look out you're

351
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Speaker 3: about to get it.

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Speaker 2: But you're gonna get fucking yeah. So I I anyway,

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Speaker 2: so she gets put up in this. I mean it's

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Speaker 2: a nunnery that's attached to a benedicting monastery. I don't

355
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Speaker 2: know benedicting nun is actually the proper term. But she's

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Speaker 2: like a nun and the nunnery is attached to this

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Speaker 2: Benedicting monastery and she's put under the care of an

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Speaker 2: anchoress named Judda. And an anchor is that that whole

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Speaker 2: thing means that, like Jutda is supposed to be anchored

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Speaker 2: to a place. She and her nuns are not ever

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Speaker 2: supposed to leave the monastery, like the world can come

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Speaker 2: to them, but they're not supposed to go out right,

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Speaker 2: and you.

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Speaker 3: Know as supposed to like there are there I guess

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Speaker 3: like the some nuns are loose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well they're able to move around be in

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Speaker 2: the world. They can move to different nunneries or different churches,

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Speaker 2: are sure, like, because you know, the church starts a

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Speaker 2: new church, you got to be able to send some

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Speaker 2: nuns over. It's got to be one that's not anchored

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Speaker 2: to a place, right. I'm not an expert on this.

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Speaker 2: This is just what the reading says. It seems that

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Speaker 2: makes sense. I know I've heard of anchorises before. Her

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Speaker 2: anchor nuns or yes, yeah, your anchor nuns and your

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Speaker 2: loose nuns. Your pocket nuns, so to speak. And by

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Speaker 2: the time Hildegard's a young adult, Judda's died, and it

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Speaker 2: says a lot about how good Hildegard is at the

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Speaker 2: social game that Hildegard gets made Anchorius when she dies,

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Speaker 2: like Judda, passes the title onto her. So she's in

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Speaker 2: charge now, and she does not like this deal. She

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Speaker 2: does not want to be stuck in one place. As

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Speaker 2: Mary Devrai writes, she wasn't happy being attached to a

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Speaker 2: monastery and asks for permission for the nuns to move

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Speaker 2: away and start their own place. No, absolutely not, said

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Speaker 2: the abbot. Hildegard wasn't having that, so she went over

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Speaker 2: his head to the archbishop. Sure, whatever was his reply.

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Speaker 2: But the abbot was not thrilled with the end run

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Speaker 2: or losing this community of women handily attached to his monastery,

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Speaker 2: or the challenge to has authority, or some other reason

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Speaker 2: we can only speculate about. He didn't let the women leave.

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Speaker 2: You could say Hildegard wasn't going to take that lying down,

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Speaker 2: except that's exactly what happened. Hildegard was stricken, ill by God,

393
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Speaker 2: paralyzed and unable to get up. It was God's unhappiness

394
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Speaker 2: about the nuns not being allowed to move. Hildegard told

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Speaker 2: the abbot her fucking awesome.

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Speaker 3: She's so cool, like, oh.

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Speaker 2: You know, this guy you're telling me exists and talks

398
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 2: to us. He's talking to me right now, and.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I can't come to work if I'm not a

400
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Speaker 3: loose nun. Sorry, right, Oh that's genius.

401
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 2: It's so cool. She's awesome. So the nuns are get

402
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Speaker 2: to leave her.

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Speaker 4: The name Hilda guard back.

404
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Speaker 3: It's a banger.

405
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Speaker 2: Hildegard whips. Yeah, I love it, goes off.

406
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Speaker 4: Sorry, she finds when you're talking about a cool nun

407
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Speaker 4: that just really it just gets me going.

408
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: She's red really coming alive right now. She's only just begun.

409
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Speaker 2: So she she gets to leave with some of her

410
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Speaker 2: other nuns and they get to found a new nunnery

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Speaker 2: or whatever you call them, you know. And along the way,

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Speaker 2: while they're doing this journey, Hildeguard decides that God had

413
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Speaker 2: made her sick. And she's like around forty when that happens,

414
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Speaker 2: because he wanted her to do something that she hadn't

415
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Speaker 2: been doing. Uh, he'd been giving her visions all these

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Speaker 2: years totally. She'd been having but she just had kept

417
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Speaker 2: them to yourself herself. You never like told them to

418
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 2: anybody until now, But they'd always been there. And she

419
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Speaker 2: writes this, though I saw and heard these things, I

420
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Speaker 2: refused to write for a long time, through doubt and

421
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Speaker 2: bad opinion and the diversity of human words. Not with stubbornness,

422
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Speaker 2: but in the exercise of humility, until laid low by

423
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Speaker 2: the scourge of God. I fell upon a bed of sickness,

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Speaker 2: and I spoke and wrote these things, not by the

425
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Speaker 2: invention of my heart or that of any other person,

426
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Speaker 2: but as by the secret mysteries of God. I heard

427
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: and received them in the heavenly places. And again I

428
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: heard a voice from heaven saying to me, cry out

429
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Speaker 2: therefore and write. Thus, basically, God's saying, you need to

430
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Speaker 2: go out into the world and write books and hill

431
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 2: regards like, that's what God wants me to do. And sorry,

432
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Speaker 2: she reach.

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Speaker 3: God wants me pivot.

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Speaker 2: God wants me to pivot pivoting the books.

435
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 3: I love this. It's the same like religious narrative we hear,

436
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 3: but it's like only being used to liberate her specifically.

437
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's extremely cool.

438
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's cool in the sense of like but

439
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,199
Speaker 4: the same thing happens in like the FLDS for like

440
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 4: a new guy's like.

441
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 3: I'm a prophet.

442
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 4: Now the big guy told me I need seventy five

443
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 4: Why it works?

444
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 3: No one can do it.

445
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: Unfortunately.

446
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 3: This is this is that that strategy being used in

447
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 3: the right way.

448
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 2: In the very coolest of ways. So Hildegard reaches out

449
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: to the pope and she's like, this is what God said.

450
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: She sends what I just read basically to the pope,

451
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 2: and the pope is like, tell yeah, God wants you

452
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: to write, Like here's some fucking money. Why don't you

453
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 2: pick out a team of like helpers and they'll like

454
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: transcribe and write out and like publish, you know, all

455
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 2: of all of your visions from God and books. And

456
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 2: so she starts putting out books that are supposed to

457
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: be inspired by God. I don't, I don't know, I don't.

458
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: I didn't look that up. This isn't a story about

459
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: a man.

460
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 4: Anytime there's like a pope that does like a slight,

461
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 4: a slight cool thing, I'm like, noted.

462
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 2: I should have looked into the pope. You're right, but w.

463
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: Is few and far between.

464
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially in this period twelfth century.

465
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.

466
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: She publishes a bunch of books, and one of them

467
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: is called cause at Kurai, and it contains what is

468
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: generally agreed to be the oldest description of a woman

469
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 2: having an orgasm written by a woman.

470
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 3: Right, Is this told by her? Or is this God

471
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 3: telling her what an orgasm might feel like?

472
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: She says it's God because she couldn't know, obviously, God.

473
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 2: She hasn't experienced what God's like.

474
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 3: You're none, So this is like I'm.

475
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: Going to let you in you. It is fucked up

476
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: if you think about it that way.

477
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 3: I love it. It's like God is taunting her. Yeah, yeah,

478
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 3: he's being a real dick here.

479
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: So here's how Hildegard writes about the orgasm she definitely

480
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: never experienced. When a woman is making love with a man,

481
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: a sense of heat in her brain, which brings with

482
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: it sensual delight, communicates the taste of that delight during

483
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: the act, and summon's forth the emission of the man's seed,

484
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: and when the seed has fallen into its place, that

485
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: the hement heat descending from her brain draws the seed

486
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: to itself and holds it, and soon the woman's sexual

487
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: organs tracked, and all the parts that are ready to

488
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: open up during the time of instruation now close, and

489
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: the same way a strong man can hold something enclosed

490
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: in his fist. So okay, now very Catholic, you know,

491
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: very twelfth century.

492
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I honestly I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. I wanted something.

493
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: I wanted something sexier.

494
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: Something sexier. She's a nun, she's sight.

495
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 4: Yes, if she was alive now, she would have loved

496
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 4: that song Pussy Palace.

497
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: She would have been huge about that one.

498
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, describing being horny for a guy

499
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 3: as a result of a brain fever is kind of potent.

500
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 4: It's super funny, yeah, kind of relatable.

501
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: Hildegard lives a great life the Church Center. She gets

502
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: to do all the things she'd always dreamed about. The

503
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: Church censor on four long speaking tours where she travels

504
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 2: around like Europe and gets to talk about her work

505
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: to learned audiences of learned men. She's super widely respon acted.

506
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 2: Her books are fairly widely distributed, and in addition to

507
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 2: that bit about the orgasm, she also wrote out descriptions

508
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: of the four kinds of men, and this doesn't really

509
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: directly talk impact our episode, but I couldn't read these

510
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: and not include them because some of them are pretty

511
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: spot on today.

512
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: Okay, what men be like? What a men be like?

513
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: Hildegard men be like? So you got to know first.

514
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: Her writing on this is somewhat influenced by the Greek

515
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: belief that the body is governed by four humors earthwind, air,

516
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: and fire, as well as something called bile. Right that

517
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: like the mix of these, the ratio of them determines

518
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: and like alters behavior and mood and personality.

519
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 3: Right, they missed that nation in last airba hower.

520
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have then. So the first kind of the

521
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: first kind of men, Hildegard said, are all fire. As

522
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: soon as they get sight of a woman, hear of one,

523
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: or simply fancy one in thought. Their blood is burning

524
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: with a blaze. Their eyes are kept fixed on the

525
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: object of their love like arrows, as soon as they

526
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: catch sight of it. And these men are terrible people

527
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: to be in relationship with, because all they can do

528
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: is fuck unless they're balanced by wind, which cools down

529
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: their fiery genitals and lets them have honorable and fruitful

530
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: relationships with women. And the second type of man is

531
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: a man who is a man of fire and of wind,

532
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: and quote, the eyes of such men can meet squarely

533
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: with those of the women, much in contrast to those

534
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: other men's eyes that were fixed on them like arrows.

535
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: Which is really interesting thing to note, is like, can

536
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: a guy just like see you as a person. It's

537
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: kind of what she's saying here, I think, right like.

538
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 3: She's just describing a man who could be a friend. Possibly.

539
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: It is also sounding like vaguely kind of astrological the

540
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: way that she's categorizing them. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

541
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 2: And yeah. She also includes an incisive description of toxic men,

542
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 2: who she describes as being full of bile.

543
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: They're vile men.

544
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 2: It's really fun. They're incapable of having a genuine, loving

545
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 2: relationship with any being. Through that, they become bitter, avaricious,

546
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: and full of foolishness and abundant passion. In intercourse with women,

547
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: they know no moderation and act like donkeys. Definitely, she

548
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: never had sex. Definitely, she never had sex.

549
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 3: This her ex was human when he read that. It's

550
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: that was I do appreciate it. That is that is

551
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 3: like a very like subtle but important distinction of like

552
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: a man who is just like wildly horny, and a

553
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: man who is both horny and really into mind games

554
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 3: that are like ruinous.

555
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, like the retire fuck Boy and bring Back

556
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: You're full of bile?

557
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're full of bile. That's that's we got

558
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: to do that.

559
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know who's not full of bile though, Robert, That's.

560
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. Soyvie, I was just about to do

561
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: it myself.

562
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I did it first.

563
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: You did it first. You did it first. And the

564
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: sponsors of our podcast have no bile.

565
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: At all, honey, bileless.

566
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: And we're back. They might have had some bio in them.

567
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 3: I don't know, We don't know.

568
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: Who knows what you people listen to?

569
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: Oh the fuck knows.

570
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 4: Who our sponsors are, not me.

571
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so here's my favorite thing, And this is

572
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 2: something married of Rye points out in her article on

573
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 2: this is that Hildegarden might be the first writer to

574
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: describe in cells in the twelfth century. It's fucking amazing.

575
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: Is this the fourth kind of guy? This is?

576
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: She kind of branches out from that to discuss the

577
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: different ways different kinds of men responding celibacy. So she

578
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: lays out the kinds of men, and she talks about

579
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: here's how they respond to like not having sex. And

580
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: one of these types of men is obviously a gay guy,

581
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: but she does not understand that. So she's like, some

582
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: men are fine with it. And it's like, well, yeah,

583
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: you're missing a piece of the story, Hildegarden. That's fine.

584
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: But she she writes here about men who stay celibate

585
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: not out of religious obligation, but because they hate women. Quote,

586
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: they nicely receive any love from their fellow men, nor

587
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: have any inclination to a social life of their own.

588
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: All the more since they exhaust themselves with continuous figments

589
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: of their imagination. Then when they meet people, they are

590
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: already full of hate, malevolence and the wrong attitudes, so

591
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: they can't enjoy company anymore. It's amazing how spot on

592
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: that ship is.

593
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 4: Just talking about Clovicular.

594
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: That's the twelfth century.

595
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: That could be.

596
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: Man.

597
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: We always think that like this jet, like whatever generation

598
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: has really reached the final stage of misogyny and like

599
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: being socially horrible.

600
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 4: But nope, Hildegard described the manosphere.

601
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 2: All the way back then.

602
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 3: You could have told me that was in the cut

603
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: last week.

604
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: That's nice. Yep, that's fucking crazy. Now. Unfortunately, this is

605
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: where we gotta leave our friend Hildegarden. It was awesome

606
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: and never did anything wrong, but we are not the show.

607
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: Our friend Margaret killed joyed us, so we're not gonna

608
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: talk about Hildegard anymore.

609
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: Margaret dropped the Hildeguard episode.

610
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love you, just as this episode is going

611
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: to be kind of downhill after Hildegard. The way women's

612
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: sexuality was discussed in like pot like medical literature in

613
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: the Western world went kind of downhill after hilde Guard. Unfortunately,

614
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: there's one bright spot in the word sixteen sixty, the

615
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: word orgasm gets coined for the first time. There's a

616
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: doctor named Nathaniel Hymour who used the term to describe

617
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: what happens during a pelvic massage. Even that early medical

618
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: professionals were experimenting with the idea that orgasms could treat

619
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: certain women's diseases. And you know this is this is

620
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: just like any anything to do with like the vagina

621
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: is women's in this era like that that's just the

622
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: way like all of the writing is in this period

623
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: of time, right.

624
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: Sounds like a fucking red bull commercial. It sounds like

625
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 4: they're just saying, endorphins give you wings.

626
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that's basically the idea. Yeah.

627
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: Through the eighteen hundreds, in Western Europe and elsewhere, including

628
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: the United States, it became more and more common to

629
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: diagnose women with hysteria. This that they're like they're not

630
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: happy with like wearing restrictive clothing and hiding from society

631
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: and like never seeing anybody until they're married and they married,

632
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 2: go to school. Those I mean, they have eleven children.

633
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: These these broads. When are they gonna It isn't just

634
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: because like this hysterias stuff is so well worn, but

635
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: it's like even framing it as like a cure of

636
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: like like an orgasm for us, this woman has to

637
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: be productive in some way.

638
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, gotta get got to make some shit happen.

639
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, cannot to this day, cannot just be for fun.

640
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not so. Doctors in the Victorian area did

641
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: eventually hit upon the orgasm as a cure for hysteria,

642
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: and some of the first electronic medical devices were invented

643
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: to aid them. These are the first vibrators, right, and

644
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: before these first gadgets, doctors had to use their hands

645
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: to do this job. In eighteen ninety one, Directs invented

646
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: a steam powered manipulator that's like the earliest vibrator. It

647
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: was so loud you could not.

648
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: The steampunk vibrator is steampunk vibrant. Yeah, it's like a

649
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: horny thing executed in the least sexy ways possible.

650
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually there's a there's a sex store in

651
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: San Francisco, Good Vibrations that is a part of this story,

652
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: because this cult winds up and briefly involved there that

653
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: has a vibrator museum. You can see a lot of

654
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: these old vibrators if you go there, like.

655
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: Were the Victorian vibrators also inextricably had forty settings that

656
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: you have to click through every single one to.

657
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: Turn it off.

658
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: Cool.

659
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: Absolutely cool.

660
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: So that's a feature that ghost.

661
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

662
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: Cool.

663
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: So the vibrator was the fifth common household appliance to

664
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: become electrified. It beat the vacuum by about one hundred years.

665
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. I think that's that's priorities. In nineteen

666
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: forty eight, Alfred Kinsey conducted his first major sexual survey,

667
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: and people started talking about orgasms of all types in

668
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: manners much more familiar to the modern sentiment, men and

669
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: women's sexual desire gradually became a more approachable topic of discussion.

670
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: The APA continued to diagnose hysteria and prescribe orgasms as

671
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: a treatment until nineteen fifth two, but things changed rapidly

672
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: after this point. In the nineteen sixties, Masters and Johnson

673
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: started conducting groundbreaking studies on why women orgasmed. As Sarah

674
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: Mansell writes, they discovered that women could have multiple orgasms

675
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: from both vaginal orculatoral stimulation, and also realized it took

676
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: women about ten or twenty minutes of sex play to

677
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: reach orgasm, compared to just four minutes for men. In

678
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: the decades since, we've learned a lot more about the

679
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: vagina and the clitorists, which is the only organ that

680
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: exists solely for pleasure, but we've learned even more about

681
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: the physiological benefits of orgasms. About sixty percent of people

682
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: with migraines experience of reduction or into symptoms after one.

683
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of other stuff about like it

684
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: has an impact on you, right including just like you know,

685
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: if you have a penis in terms of like your

686
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: eurogenital health, Doing it regularly reduces the odds of certain diseases.

687
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of that that we understand.

688
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: So I just want to make sure i'd be clear

689
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: after the eight nine years of this podcast existed, we

690
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: are coming and saying clearly coming is good, Coming is.

691
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: Good is great. Has never been an anticoming podcast. Okay, okay,

692
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: this is just usually you don't want to think about

693
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: coming when you're hearing about Hitler podcast. Like, that's more

694
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: why we don't talk about it on the show.

695
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: Cumming is medically good.

696
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: Yes, cutting is medically good outside of the contexts that

697
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: people usually come in behind the.

698
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 4: Bastards, consensual coming is good.

699
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

700
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this actually gets to another really important point

701
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: about orgasm and sexual desire that we've come to understand

702
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: more fully in the modern age. And twenty fifteen, sex

703
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: educator Emily Nagoski published an op ed in The New

704
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: York Times during fallout over the failure of the FDA

705
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: to approve fibranscren. I think is the name, which is

706
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: a drug that was supposed to increase female desire. That's

707
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: like the description of what the truck does. I think

708
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: it's basically a drug that increases like vaginal lubrication. I

709
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: think is kind of the idea, and Naghoski had an

710
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: issue with this. She wrote that the biggest problem with

711
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: the drug and with the FDA's consideration of it, is

712
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: that it's backers are attempting to treat something that isn't

713
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: a disease. Her argument was that modern research suggests there

714
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: are multiple perfectly normal forms of sexual desire. Some people

715
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: experience more spontaneous sexual desire, which is like somebody with

716
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: a dick getting hard, right Like, that's what generally society

717
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: sees as male sexual desire. That's not the only thing

718
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: that male sexual that spontaneous sexual desire is, but it's

719
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: the kind of thing you can treat with a pill sometimes,

720
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: right like that, or at least you can imitate it

721
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: with a pill. A lot of people are way more

722
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: into and feel way more responsive sexual desire, and you

723
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: can't just drug somewhat into that because it's responsive to

724
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: a situation and a relationship, right, Yeah, as neghosts.

725
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 3: I'd sooner drug someone than try to have an interesting conversation.

726
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: With exactly exactly. Yeah, okay, And that's that's kind of

727
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: Nagoski's point. She writes, I can't count the number of

728
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: women I've talked to who assume that because through desire

729
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: is responsive rather than spontaneous, they have low desire, that

730
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: their ability to enjoy sex with their partner is meaningless

731
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: if they don't also feel a persistent urge for it.

732
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: In shure that they are broken because their desire isn't

733
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: what it's supposed to be. So the road for Masters

734
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: and Johnson to what I just read you has not

735
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: been as smoother and even one. Once people started to

736
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: accept that sexual desire was normal and even good for

737
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: both men and women, our culture experienced a sexual awakening

738
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 2: that took on many forms, a lot of them problematic. Right,

739
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: Some of what you get is like the free love

740
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: movements of the sixties and the seventies, and of course

741
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: the backlash to that movement too. Now our subject for

742
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 2: these episodes. Nicole Adone was born on August twenty fourth,

743
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four, right in the smack in the middle

744
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: of this massive period of evolution and how we talk

745
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: about and understand sex. She had a difficult upbringing. Her father, Joseph,

746
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: separated from her mother, Beverly, when Nicole was like seven,

747
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: and her earliest memories are of her desperate desire to

748
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: have more of a relationship with her father than she

749
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: was going to have. In the book Empire of Orgasm,

750
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: Ellen Hewitt writes he only visited sporadically, and Nicole adored him.

751
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: When he was away, she stood for hours under a

752
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: street lamp on her house's cul de sac, trying to

753
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: stummen him. She invented bargains with the universe, certain that

754
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: if she sang out loud the songs of al Green,

755
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 2: her day dad's favorites, and cross the street with her

756
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: eyes shut spun three times to the left, her dad's

757
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: car would roll into view from around the latest street.

758
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: And that's bleak.

759
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's heartbreaking. And also how many I'd be really

760
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 3: curious how many young girls were regularly singing weirdly romantic

761
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: songs to their dad. It's a writer zero, Yeah, in a.

762
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: Way, Yeah, I honestly that fucked me up a little bit,

763
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: just because weirdly enough to coll and I, there's a

764
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: lot of points where we have like very similar beats

765
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 2: in our lives, Like like I was very adjacent to

766
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: this community and some of these coldest I'm sure it

767
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: was at the same parties as some of them, just

768
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: because of the places my life took me and the

769
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: communities I was in. But when I was like six,

770
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: my dad had to leave us for like two years.

771
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: Like we were in Oklahoma on the family farm and

772
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: we had no money, and he got a job in

773
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: New York City and he lived on his friend's couch

774
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: and he mailed us back money. And I did the

775
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: same thing, like I can remember doing the same thing,

776
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: like being like if I do this in this, he

777
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: won't leave again, right, Like it's a very normal little

778
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: kid thing to do. It's very sad story. My dad

779
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: came back. Hers never did because it turns and it's good. Well,

780
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: it's good that he didn't because Joseph was a creep

781
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: and a pedophile. In nineteen seventy six, he was arrested

782
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: in charge with child molestation.

783
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 3: Sorry, forty one minute.

784
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 2: Forty one minutes, forty one money all free. That's thirty

785
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: seven on mine. Yeah, okay, that's behind the Bast's the

786
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: new shirt forty one minutes pedophile free and twenty twenty six.

787
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: We'll start so lout.

788
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 4: I'm not going to sell that shirt, but I.

789
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, Soviet does not like shirts that have pedophile on them.

790
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't want to sell anything, thank you.

791
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so he gets arrested in seventy six and

792
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: charged with child molestation, including oral copulation with a child

793
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: under fourteen. We don't know who that was, but Nicole

794
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: would have been around nine at the time, and much

795
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 2: later she would tell a lot of people, like when

796
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: she's a young adult, she tells people that her dad

797
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: did sexually assault her when she was a child. We

798
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 2: don't know more than that. She's going to change that

799
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 2: story dramatically several times. She comes up with a different

800
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: version of it for every major pu read of her life.

801
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: And I just have no more to say than that, right.

802
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: I also don't know was her abuse connected to what

803
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 2: her dad got arrested for, or was it something nobody

804
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: ever knew until she was an adult, whatever the case.

805
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: As a little kid, she acts out in some weird

806
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: but understandable ways. She has a thing for Like she

807
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 2: she likes biting knees. Like she will obxcessively try to

808
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: bite the back of women's knees. She's like crawling around

809
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: and like bite her like aunt or whatever in the

810
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: back of the knees. It's like a thing. She's obsessed

811
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: with right, and you know, she gets yelled at.

812
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 4: I liked Pokemon cards, but okay.

813
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: It's weird.

814
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: It's a little weird and hers and she does have

815
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: like an OCD kind of like yeah, or ritualize it, yeah.

816
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: Sure, compulsions. She says, it feels like there's an animal

817
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: inside her trying to get out, right, Like. That's that's

818
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 2: how she would later describe it. As Nicole grew up,

819
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: she seems to have had fairly minimal oversight from her

820
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: mother and a deep hunger for self exploration and discovery.

821
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 2: She dated boys and girls, and she had a sugar

822
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: daddy at age sixteen. That's all we get about that.

823
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: But she's she's not very heavily watched. Right years later,

824
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: when she led an organization often described as a cult,

825
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 2: she was described in the UK Times as having grown

826
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 2: up quote a natural leader who says she didn't want

827
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: to be followed. But that's not really accurate, and it

828
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: leaves out a pretty important detail, which is that when

829
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 2: Nicole turned eighteen, she cut off her father right, who

830
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: is now at a jail, completely. She has no more

831
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: contact with him. After this point, she starts telling people

832
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: like whenever she gets to know someone that like, yeah,

833
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: my dad did this to me when I was a kid,

834
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: And this is like a story that she tells a lot.

835
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: She's like processing it right. She goes to college a

836
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: couple of different colleges, but they don't work out, so

837
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: she finally winds up back in the Bay Area, attending

838
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 2: San Francisco State University. The Guardian says she graduated, but Hewitt,

839
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 2: her biographer, denies this either way. Nicole spent her twenties

840
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: in the Bay during the early nineteen nineties, which was

841
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: both dealing and reeling from the AIDS crisis still and

842
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 2: also experience in the birth of the Silicon Valley tech set. Right,

843
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: a lot of things are happening at once, and also

844
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: Burning Man starting in the early nineties, and that is

845
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: actually a really relevant part of the show because these

846
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 2: episodes of Unfortunate, it's in the background, like a lot

847
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: of things here, like a lot of people, a lot

848
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 2: of people in this story meet at or like even

849
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: if they don't meet there, they get into like experimenting

850
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: with alternate you know, medicine and all that stuff because

851
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: they like take mushrooms at Burning Man. Like that's a

852
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: really common story with the for the men in this tale.

853
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: But like particularly every.

854
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: Time I talk shit about burning man, I get like

855
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: it turns out someone beloved in the room is like

856
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: it changed my life, and then I have to like

857
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 3: backpedal in an embarrassing way, even though I meant it.

858
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: I mean, like I went to the the like the

859
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: small ones in Texas definitely had a huge impact on me.

860
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: But I never wanted to go to the big one

861
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: because there's fucking cops there. Like, yeah, I don't want

862
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: to create my own little city in the woods to

863
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 2: take drugs in if there's police officers.

864
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 4: That sounds all that time they got stuck, mudded in

865
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 4: and all that shit.

866
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: I know, that's fine. I got we had a flood

867
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: one year that nearly killed a bunch of people. It

868
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: was crazy.

869
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 4: Somebody people die.

870
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think it's like my inter like New Englander.

871
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: But when I see pictures of Bernie Man, I'm like,

872
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 3: get a job, Like what.

873
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: Are you doing out there not having a job and

874
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: taking a lot of drugs.

875
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: Or in this case, I'm assuming taking a break from

876
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: your job.

877
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: In Silicon getting a break from my job. I mean,

878
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: we were like everyone I knew there, like half the

879
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: people I took drugs with like fucking er doctors and

880
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: ship like a lot of a lot of people with

881
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: jobs were like, I have a very high stressed job,

882
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: and I need a week to take drugs with my friends.

883
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 2: Otherwise I'm going.

884
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 3: To wear some really bad outfits this week to blow

885
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: off some steam.

886
00:41:50,760 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to address ridiculously good lord. So Nicole,

887
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 2: in her early twenties starts experimenting with drugs, namely methamphetamine,

888
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: which she would take by drop it. She's a parachuter.

889
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: She puts it in like tissue paper and eats it like,

890
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: which is a crazy way to do meth in particular,

891
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: but you do you, honey. I guess she experiments with

892
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 2: psychedelics too. She's taken a lot of acid, and she's

893
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 2: partying with people who are like involved in the first

894
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: Internet boom and also like and this is burning Man before,

895
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: by the way, it was like a famous thing that

896
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: the tech set attended. This is when there's like guns,

897
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: like people are bringing a full on machine guns and

898
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: it's like largely insane libertarians and wizards. So it's a

899
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: slightly different period of time.

900
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 3: What a weird yeah, like transitional time in the Bay

901
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: I feel like I don't hear about it very often.

902
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: Well, the lot after the Bay used to be a

903
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: lot cooler and a lot yes, less governed by all

904
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: of the people who are billionaires live here. Like it was,

905
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: it was always weird and maniacs lived there, but they

906
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: were often very cool maniacs who gradually got priced out

907
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: of the Bay. So again, I had a very similar,

908
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: like eighteen to twenty two year old ty, like I'm

909
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: going to a lot of parties and doing drugs with

910
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: people in weird places. And I also feel like Nicole

911
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,959
Speaker 2: that I was very let down by higher education, which

912
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 2: I'd been told it was fun and there were a

913
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: lot of parties, but it was mostly just like high school.

914
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: Part two. Nichole's also let down by working in retail

915
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: and food service jobs, which you know, same, like it

916
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: sucks you're a young adult and realizing this shit is

917
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 2: not as fun as you thought it was. But periodically

918
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: you have, you know, these encounters and parties with people

919
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: where you're like spending like two days on acid and

920
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: time stops existing and you're like, boy, I wish I

921
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: could just escape regular life. I feel like there's got

922
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: to be a way to do that, and some of

923
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: us write for the internet to get that, and some

924
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: of us do want to cult us.

925
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 3: She didn't need to start an orgasm empire. She could

926
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: have just started.

927
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: A podcast, that's right. She could have started writing Cracked magazine.

928
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: You know, there were a lot of options.

929
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, liberated many many lost dot com.

930
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: So the big difference between like kind of where our

931
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: paths diverge here is that Nicole starts like she decides

932
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: that the kind of work that's going to take me

933
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: out of this like rat race that I hated first

934
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 2: is like sex work, right, And she's a high, highly

935
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: paid escort. Apparently there's some evidence for that. She's fairly successful.

936
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: And she realizes she feels really powerful because all of

937
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: these men with a lot of money, who have been

938
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: much more career successful than her, aren't just paying her,

939
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: but they're often like crying in front of her and

940
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: like breaking down. And so she realizes, like she has

941
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: this very important relilation, which is that like, oh, it

942
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: doesn't matter how rich they are or like how what

943
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: title they have, Like men are dumb and I can

944
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: control them, right, Like that's the thing.

945
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,919
Speaker 3: She likes that that's an important day.

946
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 2: It's an important lesson.

947
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 3: I mean, we.

948
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: Are I several friends who are sex workers, and that

949
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 4: is a very very common thread that men often just

950
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 4: like don't know how to go to a therapist, and

951
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: so they go and seek out therapy from a from

952
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 4: a sex worker. Yeah, and there's a lot of crying.

953
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I had I had a friend who was

954
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 2: an escort and one of her regular clients was this

955
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: like big Russian mob dude who would come in like

956
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: twice a year and didn't even want to have sex,

957
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: would just lay on top of her and cry for

958
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: like four hours, and like that was that was what

959
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: this guy was willing to pay for. Just like, okay,

960
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: that that implies some dark things about your days job, But.

961
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 3: No follow up question, no.

962
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: Follow the state. So she's, uh, she's she's doing this

963
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and Hewitt writes with each

964
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 2: client she practiced her cold reading, trying to deduce what

965
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: the man secretly wanted. She quickly learned that her sexual

966
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: insights held significant economic value. So the time she's twenty seven,

967
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: you know, this is kind of where she's at, and

968
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: she gets a call from her mom that her dad

969
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: is sick and dying in a prison hospital. She had

970
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: not been in contact, so she didn't know he'd gone

971
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: back to prison, but her mom tells you. It tells

972
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: her like, yeah, he's back in prison. And that's how

973
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: Nicole learns that her dad had been arrested for child

974
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: molestation again, this time for abusing two preteen girls, including

975
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: his twelve year old granddaughter who was living with him. Nicole,

976
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: this hits very hard. She's shocked by this development. She

977
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: travels to visit her dad, and as he dies, she

978
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: tells him that she forgives him. And again, we know

979
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: this because she tells this story a lot. I don't know. Again,

980
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: I actually don't know how true it is. But this

981
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 2: is like an important when she becomes a guru. This

982
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: is a story she will repeat a lot in the

983
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: early years of being a guru. Right, and the way

984
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: she tells it. His death kind of convinces her to

985
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 2: fully unmoor herself from mainstream society. So, like many of

986
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: us did, she moved into a warehouse. Hers was in

987
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: San Francisco, where a group of Theosophists live and operated

988
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: a sort of magical commune, and largely took a lot

989
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: of LSD. Right, many of us have had experiences like this,

990
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 2: I a perfectly fine way to deal with things.

991
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 3: Who among us whom? It is interesting hearing that like

992
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 3: she was developing cold reading too, because it just like

993
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 3: you hear so many points where she could have like,

994
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: you're like, she could have been a fake medium. She

995
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 3: could have done all so many other jobs. Yeah, she's

996
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 3: got so many skills.

997
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's got so many skills. And now she's

998
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 2: living with wizards in a warehouse and taking acid every day. Now, right,

999
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 2: this may not have been as fun because she would

1000
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: later and again she's always saying this as she's like

1001
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: giving parables to her followers to portray a message, so

1002
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 2: who knows what's true. But a story she would later

1003
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: relate while lecturing her followers is that she moves into

1004
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 2: this with like a girlfriend of hers at the time,

1005
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: and her girlfriend is like very abusive and is basically

1006
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: applying her with drugs until she would burn out, and

1007
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 2: then she would hand her off to someone else to

1008
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: recover and then take Nicole back and feeder more drugs.

1009
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: And you know, Nicole would say, quote until I was

1010
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: insane looking for Jesus in the streets, adding up all

1011
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: the numbers on every house I passed right that like this,

1012
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: this is a very abusive relationship, and this woman like

1013
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: uses psychedelics to kind of like shatter Nichole's psyche. You know,

1014
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: make sure you know own someone for a while before

1015
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: you start taking drugs with them. Kids, if you're gonna

1016
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: take drugs with a with a romantic partner, don't take

1017
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 2: ecstasy on the first date. That'll fuck you up way

1018
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 2: more than acid. Well, boy, what you don't need when

1019
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: you're starting a relationship is a massive oxytose and dump

1020
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: artificially induced.

1021
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 3: And let me guess, all the men calling themselves wizards

1022
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 3: she lived with weren't helpful.

1023
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 2: I don't think they helped. I don't think the will's a.

1024
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 3: Fucking kidding the wizard help.

1025
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 2: Oh man. So in Nicole's case, it led her to

1026
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: remain dropped out of society once she leaves the warehouse.

1027
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 2: She's around thirty now, and she decides, I'm to become

1028
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: a Buddhist nun at a Zen monastery, like kill the

1029
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: guard kind of.

1030
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 3: There is the kind of this mad Libs approach to

1031
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 3: her life that I appreciate.

1032
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: It's very Bay Area in the nineties.

1033
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I feel like my equivalent of it is

1034
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: like when you find out you're like Los Angeles therapist

1035
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: was in three episodes of SVU twenty years ago, You're like, right,

1036
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 3: this is the pivot. This was kind of Yeah.

1037
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: When you live up in the mountains of northern California

1038
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: and the twenty teens and everyone over forty that you

1039
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: know in the cannabis business had previously lived in a

1040
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: warehouse in San Francisco where they taken drugs with wizards

1041
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: or there were cartels. Yeah. Anyway, so Nicole found aspects

1042
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 2: of the non life appealing, but she was also really

1043
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 2: anxious about the fact that she was gonna have to

1044
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: give up sex. So she decides, like, well, before I

1045
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: do this, I'm gonna just go wild for like a

1046
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: week and have a week of just like craz sex

1047
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: before I become a nun and don't have anymore. Right,

1048
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 2: So that's her plan.

1049
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: A Buddhist rum spring a.

1050
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: A a Buddhist rum springer. In a twenty twenty five

1051
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: article for The New York Times, Kareem Raimie describes what

1052
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: happened next. She met a man at a party. There

1053
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: is a practice you might want to try, Nicola calls him,

1054
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: telling her before they headed down to his place, a

1055
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: yoga ashrom. Take off your pants and lie down, he

1056
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: told her, I'm going to take my clothes off. I'm

1057
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: going to stroke you for fifteen minutes. It seemed insane

1058
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: at first, she says, but she did as she was told.

1059
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: The experience was eye opening. She says, I was walking

1060
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: home at night and just felt so clear. And first off,

1061
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: that's that's interesting, Like it really says a lot about

1062
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: kind of where her life has led her that this

1063
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: guy says this, and she's like, yeah, sure, I'll give

1064
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: it a shot. That said, I've also done still like

1065
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: that because I met a stranger at a party, So

1066
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 2: I get it.

1067
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: Who am I? I mean? For I feel like it's

1068
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 3: really luck of the draw of what kind of parties

1069
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: you have access to have.

1070
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 2: Access offers to take you back to what ashram r.

1071
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like that man could have been very scary,

1072
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 4: very scary.

1073
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: Apparently he wasn't.

1074
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's some light yoga culting, you know.

1075
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1076
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 3: I think the worst that ever happened to me at

1077
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 3: a party of that nature was that I briefly pretended

1078
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 3: to be really into wweamie. You just never know.

1079
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I lived at a house in Houston with some

1080
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,959
Speaker 2: very strange people for like a week and a half

1081
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: as a result of something like that. It didn't last.

1082
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: Thank god, that ended badly, half buddy, So Yeah. In

1083
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: other encounter accounts that she's given of this encounter, Nicole

1084
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: emphasizes that before this guy got her started, he just

1085
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: like looked at her genitals and described them to her

1086
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 2: and told her that they were beautiful, and she like cried,

1087
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: realizing that no one had ever said anything like that

1088
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: to her before. And this has become like will become

1089
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: an important part of like the her theory on orgasmic

1090
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: meditation would she's going to invent based on all of

1091
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: this later on. Right, this is like one of the

1092
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: steps that you have to go through in this, which

1093
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: makes being in a room full of like twenty people

1094
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: doing this really strange. So she finds this guy again.

1095
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: He turns out he's a dude named Irwan Davon, right,

1096
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 2: and he's a student of a practice called deliberate orgasm

1097
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: and the idea had come from a Bay Area commune

1098
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: started in nineteen sixty eight, the Moorhouse Community, which could

1099
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: have been founded by a guy named Victor Baranco or Vic,

1100
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: who was some self a product of the free love

1101
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 2: and the self improvement movement. He was also used appliant.

1102
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 4: Salesman contact here.

1103
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 3: That's fine, This is just like a neighborhood rumor, Like

1104
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 3: you won't have any idea who you've just bought a

1105
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: wrench from?

1106
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, where his hands have been? So when I was

1107
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: writing these episodes, I was planning for this to just

1108
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: be a quick two episodes. I think it's going to

1109
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: be at least three because I had to go into

1110
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 2: the whole history of the different orgasm cults that have

1111
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: existed in the in the Bay air is solely in California. Well,

1112
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: they spread, but they start in California. You damn sure

1113
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: about that? Sure? Yeah? So, uh here's how Here's how

1114
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 2: Ellen Hewitt describes Vic's journey. Vic claimed to have learned

1115
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: the meditative clittoral stroking technique deliberate orgasm in his thirties

1116
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: from a self proclaimed witch when he and his wife

1117
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: were seeking help with their sex life. The actual origin

1118
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 2: of the practice is hard to pin down, but Vic

1119
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: realized the value of the idea quickly. In nineteen sixty eight,

1120
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: he started a commune in Lafayette California. He picked the

1121
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: name Morehouse because it was the place dedicated to living

1122
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: with more. Here's how one of vix lieutenants put it.

1123
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: We at Morehouse believe that every day a Sunday. We

1124
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: believe that we are on earth to have a good time,

1125
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: to devote our lives to pleasure. We call it responsible hedonism.

1126
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 3: I can't this is it's so silly. It's so silly

1127
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 3: that this is. It sounds like a man who realized

1128
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 3: he never made his wife come in their thirties, and

1129
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 3: instead of just making her come, was like, I have

1130
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 3: to start a business.

1131
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 2: Like there's money in this baby. Baby, did you know

1132
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: you could do that?

1133
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, yeah, you could have done it

1134
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 3: at any time. Yeah.

1135
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: Married man in his thirties discovers orgasms and decides there's money.

1136
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: Monetizing women's or let's go, let's oh.

1137
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: This is all occurring as part of an explosion of

1138
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: intentional and utopian communities around the time, and of those,

1139
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: Moral House is not among the most toxic. This is

1140
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: like on the low end of bad for what things

1141
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 2: you might call cults in this period of time, although

1142
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: it's still pretty bad.

1143
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 3: It's bad, and it's also corny. It's makes it.

1144
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: Cults always are in religion, always is, folks, and that

1145
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: mean it can't be an important part of your life.

1146
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 2: Part of the real adore is an understanding that to

1147
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: be happy you have to do embarrassing things. Right, But

1148
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: that's it, folks. Sorry, you can't be cool once you're

1149
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 2: no longer like nineteen give up. So Morehouse sells introductory

1150
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: courses and these are all called the courses they sell,

1151
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: like if you sign up and pay, it's called the

1152
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 2: Mark group and people are told they're called Marks. You're

1153
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 2: being told that. They're jokingly saying, like you are Marx

1154
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 2: and we are like hustling you, right, Like that's very

1155
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 2: open and they're open about them, like we're hustling you,

1156
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: but you'll get something out of it, right, Like we'll

1157
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: get your money and you'll learn how to have more

1158
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 2: better sex. Right. So that's that's the way they're kind

1159
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: of advertising themselves. KQED there's an article. Sorry, I found

1160
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: an article on KQED News's website. Quote. One notorious Moorhouse

1161
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 2: event was a public demonstration in nineteen seventy six of

1162
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,439
Speaker 2: what the group claimed was a woman having a three

1163
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 2: hour orgasm and took advantage of California's loose post secondary

1164
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: education standards to turn the La Fayette Commune into more University,

1165
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: which offered PhDs in the humanities and sensuality and conducted

1166
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: what the organization said was sexual research. In nineteen ninety two,

1167
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the courses cost as

1168
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: much as sixteen eight hundred dollars. Oh my god, So

1169
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: this is that KQED article came out after like some

1170
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 2: lawsuits around this group, and there's a lot of negative

1171
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 2: reporting that hits like come like the eighties and nineties

1172
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: and stuff. Broncos over the years sues several newspapers for libel.

1173
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: Those lawsuits all fail, but they make public some fascinating

1174
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 2: details about how the group works during discovery, like that

1175
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 2: they're more Universities Advanced Sexuality class, conducted research on quote engorgement, lubrication,

1176
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: seminal secretion, and that one purpose of the class was

1177
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: to make friends with another crotch. So they're also gross

1178
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: and corny.

1179
00:56:54,960 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: It's starting to sound like a disgusting prison experiment. It is.

1180
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: It is pretty gross, like they're pretty gross about the wording,

1181
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: but also they're hitting like a bomb in a culture

1182
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 2: of like men who have don't know that you can

1183
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: like actually please your partner that like, like that's something

1184
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 2: that sex can have. So the fact that a guy

1185
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: is being like no, actually, in a very clinical setting,

1186
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: you can just learn how to like manipulate a clitterists, right,

1187
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: Like you can just take that class and there are

1188
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: dudes who are willing to pay money for that. It's

1189
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 2: this it's a business, right, and part because people can't

1190
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 2: talk about sex and they can't be educated about it

1191
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: really in this period of time very well, so there's

1192
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 2: a there's a hunger for this kind of thing. And

1193
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: you know, what's what's going on kind of within the

1194
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: cult's internal messaging is that the increasing scientific consensus on

1195
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: sex and pleasure is being twisted to argue kind of

1196
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 2: the same thing the Greeks had argued. Right, this is

1197
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 2: set up is very we're trying to you know, make

1198
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 2: men better and make you all have better sex and

1199
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: make women make sure women have a better time. But

1200
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: a big part of the scientific theories they come up

1201
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: up with about sex and orgasms is that women don't

1202
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: just enjoy sex more than men, they're insatiable and so

1203
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with treating them like sexual beings, whether

1204
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: or not they want that. Right, it's the same conclusion,

1205
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: right two thousand something years later, it's it's pretty wild

1206
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: when you lay it out like that.

1207
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now they're like printing money doing it.

1208
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, they buy a big commune.

1209
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 3: Very curious about who's who is teaching these classes and

1210
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 3: what the gender split is there. It's it's so true

1211
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 3: because it's like that on its face, you know, maybe

1212
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: there's elements to it that are positive and like are

1213
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 3: speaking to like how puritanical the US wasn't is about

1214
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 3: sex and wanting you know, their partners to have pleasure,

1215
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 3: But there is this element of like the profit, like

1216
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 3: profiting off of it is one thing, and it's also

1217
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 3: just like it just feels like a stealing of narrative too,

1218
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 3: of like not only do I want to be able

1219
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 3: to like manipulate a clitterist and make make someone come,

1220
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 3: I want to be able to like brag about it

1221
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: and have a graduate degree in dere So yucky and

1222
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 3: just feels like still asserting yourself the you know.

1223
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 2: I'm imagining like a fucking seventies dude with a huge

1224
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: mustache and like a bed but behind it is like

1225
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 2: it's like the wall of a doctor's office with his

1226
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 2: degrees and sex exactly exactly, Yeah, Vix. Whole thing was

1227
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: in fact aping some really lazy interpretations of like feminism

1228
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 2: and like kind of modern sex science and twisting those

1229
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: to his own ends. For one, he agreed that women

1230
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: shouldn't be expected to wear makeup or shave their body hair,

1231
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: so he banned them from doing those things when they

1232
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 2: lived in the Moorhouse cold compound.

1233
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: Oh so traslick so close.

1234
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he traveled his properties, usually in a golf

1235
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: cart because he hated walking. He was waited on by

1236
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: men and women, and the women were made to wear

1237
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: French made uniforms. This service was called mating. When asked

1238
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 2: why he did this, he answered sexual liberation. People had

1239
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 2: very different experiences with the Moorhouses. Again, most folks are

1240
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 2: not joining the cult. They're taking some classes, right, but

1241
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: there are people who like live there, and over the

1242
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 2: years they start they build separate moorhouses right where like

1243
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 2: they're all over the country and they're selling courses and

1244
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: people are living there and having like compulsory sex, right

1245
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: because they're kind of told you have to constantly be

1246
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 2: having sex. There's like quotas and stuff, and Vic keeps

1247
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: a strict in and out list of his followers and

1248
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: he'll encourage them to exchange sex with each other in

1249
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: order to improve their standings per huit.

1250
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: Quickly does this like escalate.

1251
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: Ten years or so? I think something like that, you know,

1252
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: I mean it lasts longer than that, but it's over

1253
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 2: like the first decade. I think that, like all this

1254
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: is slotting into place as Hewitt rights, people were assigned

1255
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 2: job shifts as technicians, and their only duty was to

1256
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 2: fill a certain weekly quota of tricks or sexual service encounters.

1257
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 2: The technicians would look within the community for customers to

1258
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 2: have sex with that day, and they would take payment

1259
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 2: using the group's internal paper currency. Residents were screened for

1260
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 2: STDs and forbidden from sex outside the group. Vic was

1261
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: criticized during his life, but the griff never exploded. In

1262
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: some form of this community exists today. As one former

1263
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: teacher later said, the institute is a good scam. We

1264
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: call ourselves hustlers and other people marks. Victor hustles their

1265
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: asses and their souls. He takes their dough to feed himself,

1266
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: but he sees to it that they win two right now.

1267
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 2: Whether or not that's true, it's something different. People have

1268
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: very different tanks on.

1269
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't say certainly. Not everyone is winning.

1270
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: Not everybody. No, but the Morehouse Institute is mostly relevant

1271
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: to our story because if you not, like in nineteen

1272
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: ninety two, that's when they had, like the Warris Institute

1273
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: has one of their big legal spats and they get

1274
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of bad press and one of Vic's students,

1275
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 2: a guy named r. J. Testerman, leaves the group to

1276
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 2: found his own orgasm cult, the Welcomed Consensus, which our

1277
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: friend Nicole is going to join in nineteen I think

1278
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 2: ninety seven in the late nineties.

1279
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 4: Welcomed Consensus.

1280
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: The Welcomed Consensus. What an upsetting name.

1281
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 3: I don't I don't like that.

1282
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 4: I like it, honey, I don't like that at all.

1283
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have any problems, it's actually answered by

1284
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 3: the name of the organization.

1285
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1286
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 3: So let's go back to the sign, just having the sign.

1287
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: Sign Jamie, you got anything to plug before we write

1288
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 2: out for a day, before we get back to orgasm cults.

1289
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 3: Before yeah, before we cool off, you can listen to

1290
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 3: the Bechdel Cast. We're having our ten year anniversary soon,

1291
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 3: which is nuts. We you can listen to be the

1292
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 3: End House. I have a book that'll be available for

1293
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: pre sale sometime in the summer. I'll let you know

1294
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 3: check Instagram. Jamie Christ Superstar.

1295
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yep. All right, everybody, Uh, this has been

1296
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: the episode. We'll be back with more of us having

1297
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: to say it uncomfortable phrases to read in a broadcast,

1298
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 2: like listoral stimulation that nobody wants to sit and read

1299
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: off a script that's not anybody's ideal day.

1300
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think we all had a nice time.

1301
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 3: Part one is always the fun one.

1302
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 2: Part one is the fun. It's because I've always been

1303
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 2: a pretty like sex positive guy, and by the end

1304
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 2: of like the research for this, I was like, stop

1305
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: fucking stop fucking you. People are doing it wrong. Stop

1306
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: stop doing drugs. You're doing that wrong too, get a job,

1307
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 2: all right, We're done.

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01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1309
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1310
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1311
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video

1312
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,

1313
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Remind me of Netflix. You

1314
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog,

1315
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube dot com

1316
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about forty percent

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01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: of you, statistically speaking,