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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Michael barn and I'm Scott Sasnik. On this

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Speaker 1: weekly podcast, we explore the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports and talk to some of the biggest

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Speaker 1: players in the industry. On this week's show, we speak

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Speaker 1: with a Mad Nassair, the president of NFL Players Incorporated.

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Speaker 1: But first, let's look at the top stories of the week.

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Speaker 1: Joining us and each and every week is Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports reporter Evan Novie Williams. And let's start with swimming.

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Speaker 1: We got a couple of topics to talk about. To

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Speaker 1: start with Ryan Lucked, Ryan Lucky, Ryan Luckedy Um, and

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen fourteen months? Is anybody surprised by this

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Speaker 1: fourteen month suspension because he put on his Instagram account

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Speaker 1: a photo of himself getting an IVY recovery unit, which

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Speaker 1: is not allowed for swimmers. You're not allowed to have

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Speaker 1: intervenous You just said, it wasn't in my vein, It

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Speaker 1: wasn't in there. It was it was just a job.

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Speaker 1: Fourteen months for a guy who's at the tail end

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Speaker 1: of his career. You know that he doesn't have time.

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Speaker 1: We got one more Olympics and it was already a

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Speaker 1: rocky career. To start, even though he did that dancing

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Speaker 1: with just the silliness in Brazil, the lie, the yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just the Jiah yeah new Jid for a while, Buddy,

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Speaker 1: don't even try and take that back. I will not

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Speaker 1: allow you to get out of that. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's look at it from the endorsement standpoint. He's a

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Speaker 1: t y R sport guy tear Yeah, and they're sticking

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Speaker 1: with him. Yeah, I mean they're hoping to have the redemption.

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Speaker 1: It was like it was the redemption for now it's

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Speaker 1: really the redemption. Yeah. So when when the when the

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Speaker 1: whole Brazilian Mysterious Night Out scandal happened, Ryan lost, I

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Speaker 1: mean he was suspended from swimming, but he also lost

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Speaker 1: a lot of his partners. Tears stepped in willing to

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Speaker 1: kind of be the brand that was going to have

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Speaker 1: his back, to promote him if he had a redemption.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to be on his body when he did.

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Speaker 1: If we had music in this show, we'd have Tears

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Speaker 1: of a Clown right now. Nice, thank you, And they're

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Speaker 1: sticking by him for this, Evan. This is where Evan

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Speaker 1: does turn yet who sings Tears of a Clown by

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Speaker 1: Phil Collins? Yes, anyway, don't buy me. There's another W

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Speaker 1: L A R. Oldies stations up that that's part of me.

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Speaker 1: But by the way, quickly about Simone Manuel. Also also

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Speaker 1: a Tier story, by the way, also a tear story. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Simone Manuel. She is added to the Tier family this week,

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Speaker 1: joining Katie Ladecki. The most successful she's taught women's are

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Speaker 1: out there. One unique thing about Simone Manuel, who, as

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Speaker 1: people may remember, she's an Olympic gold medalist, one of

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Speaker 1: the few golden black gold medal swimming swimmers we've had,

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Speaker 1: uh or maybe even the first from from a US standpoint,

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Speaker 1: She included in her sponsorship an inclusion writer, you know

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Speaker 1: this buzzword that became a huge deal in Hollywood earlier

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Speaker 1: this year, essentially committing Tier to maintaining diversity within its

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Speaker 1: endorsement and its practices. Stays for more than just taking

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Speaker 1: the cash. Barky, I like it, I thought you would,

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Speaker 1: There you go and we got it. Oh, Nike, Nike.

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Speaker 1: That's another topic, and good for them. They are raising

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Speaker 1: the salaries of about seventy employees worldwide. For those who

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Speaker 1: like the sports and apparel industry, let them be told

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Speaker 1: now that Mr Eban Nolvie Williams is now adding to

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Speaker 1: all the things he already does. He's adding the Nike

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Speaker 1: under armour coverage, Adidas adding all that to his plate. So,

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Speaker 1: Mr Novie Williams, what am I to make of this?

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Speaker 1: At Nova underscore Williams for all your game? Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is this is a raise that Nike is giving across

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Speaker 1: teen percent of its workforce, so a little over seven

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Speaker 1: seven thousand employees. They've been under fire. There's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of executive departures recently tied to some inappropriate office behavior. UH,

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Speaker 1: some complaints internally about gender pay gap, etcetera. Uh. This

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Speaker 1: certainly seems as though it is an attempt by Nike

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Speaker 1: to maybe help narrow some of the gaps that they're

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Speaker 1: saying it's just to remain competitive in the industry. I

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Speaker 1: find it hard. And they're saying it's also to harbor,

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Speaker 1: you know, in inclusive and empowering uh workforce. Soccer flash,

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Speaker 1: we need to sound it for that something something like

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Speaker 1: go and it's all about Alfonso Davies seventeen years old,

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Speaker 1: bar seven years old. MLS gets a what's the twenty

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Speaker 1: million dollar transfer fee for seventeen year old going to

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Speaker 1: Bayern Munich, And this is the big debate. Do you

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Speaker 1: want the best players here do you want them going

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Speaker 1: abroad to develop? He's Canadian, so it's not like one

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Speaker 1: of these kids that's gonna hurt the U S team

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Speaker 1: if he's in't here. But good news for the league

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Speaker 1: when they're producing the kind of player that teams like

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Speaker 1: Byron and other world powers want, they're willing to pay

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Speaker 1: to get. Yeah, this, honestly I feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: of deja vu. The number is bigger, but you know,

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Speaker 1: was it four years ago when DeAndre Yedlin, coming off

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Speaker 1: that great World Cup performance, had a big transfer deal

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Speaker 1: to Tottenham. Yeah, and people thought that, you know that

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Speaker 1: Yedlin was was young, he had not really played in

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Speaker 1: MLS all that long, that this was kind of the

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Speaker 1: sign of MLS developing these talents that your major EPL

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Speaker 1: or your major German or Spanish clubs would want to

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Speaker 1: sign when they were young. Kind of right off the bat. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Yedlin did not really work out in England, you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a stellar Tottenham career. So we'll see

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Speaker 1: if Alfonso Davies can can be kind of this big

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Speaker 1: shift that we're talking about here. Oh, I wish I

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Speaker 1: learned how to kick a soccer ball instead of bowling ball. Evan,

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Speaker 1: you were not. You were off the week Barts told

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Speaker 1: everybody he wants real bowler. Good? How good? When when

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Speaker 1: was the non strike earlier to last? It was? It

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Speaker 1: was the last. I asked the same question to Oh.

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Speaker 1: It was yeah, that nine pins got a butt weapon

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Speaker 1: coming from all right, as always, our thanks to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports reporter Evan Novie Williams now Scott. Let's

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Speaker 1: get into our interview with the Mountain. NASA, President of

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Speaker 1: NFL Players Incorporated, which is the licensing and marketing arm

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Speaker 1: of the NFL Players Association. NASA joined nfl p I

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, most recently serving as Executive vice

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Speaker 1: President of Business Affairs and General Consul. NASA is overseeing

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Speaker 1: the organizations major legal and business initiatives, including negotiating with

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Speaker 1: partners such as Electronic Arts, Nike, Panini, and ESPN. He

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Speaker 1: also led negotiations on n f l p i s

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Speaker 1: landmark ten year commercial agreement with the NFL. Quite the resume, indeed, Anamad,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: You got it. Always love talking to you. We've known

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Speaker 1: each other for a while now, and I can't believe

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Speaker 1: what unions have become. Because when I was covering that's

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Speaker 1: going to the NBA lockout, pretty much the union existed

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Speaker 1: to negotiate labor deals. But I mean, you are licensing

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Speaker 1: and marketing arm of the NFL p A. What are

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Speaker 1: unions nowadays? That? Are they? Venture capitalists? Are they? Are they?

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Speaker 1: Are they bargaining units? What are they? Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: great way to start. UM. I think they're all of

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Speaker 1: the above. And you know, there's a much broader context

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Speaker 1: for what a union is nowadays than just sports, because

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Speaker 1: I think even more traditional labor unions are struggling with

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Speaker 1: the same questions, UM, of what what what are they

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Speaker 1: here for? And there are lots of examples that I

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Speaker 1: think underscore the continuing need for unions UM, everything from

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Speaker 1: the Olympic scandal to the entirety of the me too movement. UM.

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Speaker 1: Those are things that, if you really think about it,

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Speaker 1: UM should help articulate, Well, here's why we need UM,

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Speaker 1: collective bargaining and collective representation because it helps hopefully avoid

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Speaker 1: UM these exact sorts of issues. UM. But then you have,

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Speaker 1: you know, the voices that say, well, look a hundred

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Speaker 1: years ago or even twenty years ago, in the sports context,

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Speaker 1: we get what unions were doing and what they were

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Speaker 1: for and wages, hours working conditions, and you know, bathroom

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Speaker 1: breaks and factory UM floor and and just being able

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Speaker 1: to UM, you know, not be completely rolled over UM

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Speaker 1: and and is it really like that anymore? And and

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the times have changed, but the

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Speaker 1: reality is still that the power dynamics are there, and

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Speaker 1: bad things happened when you've got a completely imbalanced power dynamic.

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Speaker 1: And so when we think about our context, UM, for

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Speaker 1: over twenty five years now, we as a collective union

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Speaker 1: have focused on both the traditional union movement side, so

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Speaker 1: collective bargaining, traditional areas like wages, hours, working conditions, but

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Speaker 1: also the business side and licensing and marketing. And we're

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Speaker 1: really fortunate to represent NFL players who have UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and and incredible following UM for better or for worse.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll get into that UM and and so

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Speaker 1: that that is monetize herble and we've taken that business

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Speaker 1: to UM you know, a hundred and seventy five million

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Speaker 1: dollars of revenue annually for the players and for the union,

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Speaker 1: and it's put us in a position to do and

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Speaker 1: try lots of new things. And I think, um, the

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Speaker 1: best kind of affirmation of that is other unions have

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Speaker 1: have took taken notice and have started to emulate a

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Speaker 1: lot of that. And we've been able to start working

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Speaker 1: with other unions to roll out what we've done for

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Speaker 1: NFL players for their athletes as well. Does all this

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Speaker 1: happen without a sophistication and a growth in the understanding

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Speaker 1: the business of sport from the players themselves? It look,

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Speaker 1: I think that is it's it is absolutely necessary. And

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Speaker 1: I look at the players coming into the league now,

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Speaker 1: and I've done this almost ten years, so you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've had a bit of perspective on players coming

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Speaker 1: in and out of the league and the guys going

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Speaker 1: out of the league. You know, in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: nine two they didn't know a lot of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And you know, um, just even in your business, the

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Speaker 1: amount of traction that sports business articles generate now compared

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Speaker 1: to five ten years ago, I assume is much much higher.

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Speaker 1: And the players, you know, especially in high school and

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Speaker 1: college as they get ready for the NFL, are absolutely

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Speaker 1: part of that old man bar here as usual. So

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Speaker 1: I'm about to go way old school yourself. Remember back

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Speaker 1: in the day, you know you're laughing, but I'm about

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Speaker 1: the Chuck beg Merrik. Remember back in the day, if

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Speaker 1: a player was was tops Chuck beg Merrick. You know, yes,

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Speaker 1: you can see him for Vitalist, and that's how he

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Speaker 1: made his extra money. And then there one day the

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Speaker 1: players realized, wait a minute, we're leaving a lot of

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Speaker 1: money out there on the table, licensing rights all this.

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Speaker 1: At what point do you think it changed where the

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Speaker 1: players won't up? I think it was definitely um evolution

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Speaker 1: evolutionary shift, not a revolutionary shift. But I will point

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Speaker 1: to one thing in particular that I think really helped

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Speaker 1: nudge this whole thing along, and that that really is

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Speaker 1: the rise of video games in the early to late

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Speaker 1: I was a mid to late eighties in early nineties

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Speaker 1: because once the bar is so old about he actually

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Speaker 1: remembers when John Madden was a coach. Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, isn't it amazing that to most

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Speaker 1: people nowadays, if you did a sir Bay, people know

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Speaker 1: Madden as oh yeah, that's the video game. And I

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Speaker 1: bet you a lot of people don't even realize that

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Speaker 1: that's a person. The kids have no idea. You don't

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Speaker 1: remember that he used to coach Otis is Stronger. And

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Speaker 1: by the way that we're skipping the whole generation that

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Speaker 1: knew him as an announcer. You know, it was an

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Speaker 1: amazing commentator on games. So but I think once, once

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Speaker 1: and Madden was only part of that, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the dominance of Madden really took hold twenty years later,

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Speaker 1: right the mid like two thousand four or five, and

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Speaker 1: once they gotten exclusive from both us in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, the rest has been history. But

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Speaker 1: you know, when in the late eighties, early nineties, you

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Speaker 1: had four or five different games, um and and it

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Speaker 1: was early days for video games in general, um of

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Speaker 1: of really you know that kind of video game and

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Speaker 1: UM I think as the graphics got better and the

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Speaker 1: players um that you just mentioned seeing themselves in a

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Speaker 1: video game and then seeing that video game for sale

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Speaker 1: at retail outlets really highlighted the wait, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, not just you know, Joe Montana

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Speaker 1: at the time, but every single one of those players. UM,

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Speaker 1: I think it really really helped facilitate the thinking of wait,

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Speaker 1: we've got and and all those video game manufacturers in

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Speaker 1: the early days, you know, they didn't all have licenses

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Speaker 1: from the NFL and the NFL p A. Some had

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Speaker 1: player licenses, some had league and team licenses, and it

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Speaker 1: was a bit of the wild wild West. But what

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Speaker 1: what became clear is that the player licenses and video

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Speaker 1: games in particular, UM, that's what where the value was

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Speaker 1: right and the video game players wanted to play as

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Speaker 1: Joe Montana. Where is the real value or do they

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Speaker 1: need a symbiotic relationship. Do you get the money if

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Speaker 1: it's the players and the names playing but they can't

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Speaker 1: use the league in team marks. Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it's not a zero sum game. And I think

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Speaker 1: that clearly our best products, and I mean our like

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Speaker 1: both the NFL and the nflp UM are products that

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Speaker 1: that make good use of both sets of rights. So

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Speaker 1: the Maddened video game is example number one. Uh Nike's

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Speaker 1: jerseys are another great example. Pannini's trading cards another great example,

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Speaker 1: and they make you know, a huge portion fanatics. Everything

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Speaker 1: that they do on the marketing side, the e commerce

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Speaker 1: side and their own apparel side, UM makes use of

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Speaker 1: both sets of rights, and that that really is the

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Speaker 1: lion's share of the revenue. But then when you look

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Speaker 1: at other areas, and the point I was making is

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Speaker 1: more theoretical, which is, you know, from a player perspective,

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Speaker 1: they get the league rights because you've always kind of

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Speaker 1: had that, you know, shoved down your face and throw

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Speaker 1: it as a fan and as a player. But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until those video games started coming out and you

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Speaker 1: could see your own name in the product that the

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Speaker 1: players said, wait a minute, I have value and it's

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Speaker 1: attributable to me personally, and you know, potentially has more

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Speaker 1: value in the context of a video game, um than

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Speaker 1: just the league rights. But it doesn't mean that, you know,

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Speaker 1: people making products should go out and just get one

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Speaker 1: set or the other. Although there are some things like content,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of what we're doing in content

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Speaker 1: right now doesn't append on you know, if you think

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Speaker 1: of a show that you know features players, cars or

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Speaker 1: houses or what they're doing in the off season, do

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Speaker 1: they really need to be walking around the whole episode

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Speaker 1: wearing their jersey? Now you know that it's Juju, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know that it's Antonio Brown, you know that it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's Chuck bed Nerrick but you don't see

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Speaker 1: I remember back in the day. You're right, the video

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Speaker 1: but remember doesn't count. I'm not even I'm going far

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Speaker 1: with remember strata Matic, of course, yeah, stra Unick. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's when I really first noticed these guys were here.

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Speaker 1: And it took a while, but like you said, this

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Speaker 1: happened when the video game era took place. But I

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Speaker 1: remember Strata Matic, Man, that was a lot of Let

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Speaker 1: me ask you this, what's the relationship like? Because we

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Speaker 1: know when d Demorris Smith, the executive director of the

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Speaker 1: NFL p A, has to deal with Roger, it's often

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Speaker 1: contentious and we see that all the time. Now, what's

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Speaker 1: the business relationship like? Is it a truer partners it

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Speaker 1: because everybody's making money between the NFL and the p

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Speaker 1: A and you yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: use a stronger word as partnership because we do have

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Speaker 1: separate businesses and we run them separately, and there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of practical and legal reasons why you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a I won't say a wall between but but there's

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Speaker 1: you know, not a true partnership in that sense, um

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Speaker 1: like in a business sense. But but I would say

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Speaker 1: that the relationship is UM, not contentious and UM and

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Speaker 1: and you know, I think we're trying to be mindful

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Speaker 1: of the overall business and that you know, lately has

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Speaker 1: involved you know, over the last couple of years, a

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Speaker 1: bit of a balancing act and and you know, talking

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Speaker 1: about issues that frankly, I never envisioned having to talk about, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, five ten years ago when I started. And UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that there's a very UM. I

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Speaker 1: think it's collaborative right as issues come up, and and

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Speaker 1: specifically on the sponsorship side of the business when it

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Speaker 1: comes to sponsorships, we actually do have a partner ship

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Speaker 1: with the NFL UM as it relates to UH national sponsors,

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Speaker 1: so Pepsi, Gatorade, Bows, Microsoft Rising those how we got

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Speaker 1: them all in the bar you don't know what he's doing,

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Speaker 1: what he's doing. But beyond that and in a in

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Speaker 1: a much less well known UM part of the business.

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Speaker 1: But but UM, in the aggregate of hugely valuable part

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Speaker 1: of the business is each of the thirty two clubs

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Speaker 1: we work with, with each of them on a local

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Speaker 1: level UM. And so that has been tremendously valuable because

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Speaker 1: the clubs, you know, they're you know, they're competing not

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Speaker 1: only on the football field, but in some context, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the business realm with each other. And to have us,

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Speaker 1: you know, with with the knowledge that we have because

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Speaker 1: we work with all of them, and being able to say, well,

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Speaker 1: here's some best practices, you know from the Miami Dolphins,

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Speaker 1: and you know, here's some best practices from the Houston Texans,

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Speaker 1: um and and you know, being able to roll that

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Speaker 1: out um and highlight that has been tremendously valuable. So

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Speaker 1: I think people in general would be pleasantly surprised, um

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Speaker 1: about the business relationship. You notice how he didn't say

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Speaker 1: the best practice of the Detroit Lions. Bars a big

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Speaker 1: Detroit guy. He doesn't I'm a big Detroit guy. You're

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Speaker 1: the man. You're the man. It's like I want to

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Speaker 1: do partners. I could do it, for sure. It's right,

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Speaker 1: you could do this job, for sure. We are chatting

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Speaker 1: with him on to start the president of NFL Players, Inc.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't know, that's the marketing and licensing

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Speaker 1: arm of the NFL p A. And thank you very

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Speaker 1: much about for trusting me. You mentioned content, but you

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Speaker 1: didn't just launch into By the way, we have this

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Speaker 1: thing called ACE Media, but you are taking it in house.

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Speaker 1: What sorts of things is ACE media doing for players?

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Speaker 1: Who wants the players? And what are the messages they're

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Speaker 1: trying to get out there? Yeah? So, um, well, first

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Speaker 1: of all, I think you're welcome, and I'm patient, but

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Speaker 1: you know, you know we'd get there if you didn't

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Speaker 1: bring it up sooner or later. Though. I was going

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Speaker 1: to launch into it, um bar was going to launch

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Speaker 1: into Cribs. But I mean, I mean, we laugh, but

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Speaker 1: really Cribs is sort of a precursor to all this.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely isn't, in fact, in in you know, the

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Speaker 1: precursor to ACE was a show that we did with

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Speaker 1: sp Nation and Samsung is a sponsor, where Samsung provided

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Speaker 1: these big screen TVs for players who were remodeling their

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Speaker 1: man caves quote unquote um in their own homes. And

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Speaker 1: and that was the show was you know, literally a

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Speaker 1: ten minute UM web series, uh, featuring a different player

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Speaker 1: every week where they that's what they were doing. Who

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Speaker 1: had the best one? I didn't see it, but who

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Speaker 1: had the best I don't remember back then who we

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Speaker 1: had even I remember Vernon Davis having a really entertaining

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Speaker 1: UM episode. UM and and so but from there we

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Speaker 1: kind of said, look, there is an opportunity on content

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Speaker 1: that nobody is really um taking advantage of because they're

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Speaker 1: not incentivized to take advantage of it. So the ESPNS

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Speaker 1: and CBS S and those companies are rightfully fixated on

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Speaker 1: you know, the games and telecasting the games and and

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Speaker 1: and broadcasting them and breaking them down before and after. Um,

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Speaker 1: they pay a lot of money for those rights, and

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Speaker 1: so they want to make sure if they maximize those rights,

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Speaker 1: and we want them to make sure that they maximize

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Speaker 1: those rights. But then you know, we were looking and saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, social media is really getting a lot of

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Speaker 1: traction obviously, and people seem to care about what the

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Speaker 1: players are eating, what the players are doing, um, what

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Speaker 1: they're reading, and what they're listening to, what video games

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Speaker 1: they're playing. And you know, our guys had the longest

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Speaker 1: off season of any of the pro sports, and so

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Speaker 1: there's just more opportunity to fill that with content. And

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Speaker 1: so we embarked on, you know, just a bunch of

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Speaker 1: conversations with content providers, the usual suspects like the sports broadcasters,

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Speaker 1: but then also some unusual suspects like E entertainment and

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Speaker 1: all the reality programming that they were doing. And one

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Speaker 1: of the very first shows that we sold was actually

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Speaker 1: a dating show featuring Travis Kelsey um too and aired

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Speaker 1: on the networks, and I would have suggested, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to touch that. If people don't know what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. Google garoo spelt like it sounds um.

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Speaker 1: The The the interesting thing about the Travis Kelsey show though, is, look,

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Speaker 1: there was no obvious place he was not going to

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Speaker 1: go do that show on their own, because they don't

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Speaker 1: do any sports things on their own really, and you know,

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Speaker 1: at a network like ESPN or NFL network, they're they're

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Speaker 1: busy doing you know, their bread and butter, and they

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Speaker 1: again should be doing that. And so we were able

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Speaker 1: to fill that gap and appeal to a different audience

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Speaker 1: than than maybe traditionally is watching NFL games or highlight shows,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, from there, we've done shows with

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Speaker 1: Facebook and Amazon, um, Bleacher Report, b et uh. You know.

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Speaker 1: So it's been a great business and a great learning experience.

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Speaker 1: And we're coming up on the second birthday and so

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Speaker 1: as I like to remind um the folks on that

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Speaker 1: team that you know, it's a business that's still in

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Speaker 1: its diapers, and so we're still learning a lot of

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Speaker 1: things and and but it's been a really good run

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Speaker 1: so far. Yeah, I'm still in my diapers. You're soon

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Speaker 1: headed to Yeah, I guess eventually all back, he's almost

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Speaker 1: We're talking with the mod Nassa, who is the president

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Speaker 1: of NFL Players, Inc. And I have to ask about

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Speaker 1: the elephant in the room. And uh, we're starting. I've

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Speaker 1: never and you mentioned it earlier, about subjects that you

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Speaker 1: never thought that we would be talking about what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today, and that is the big controversy about

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Speaker 1: athletes standing. We're kneeling for the national anthem. Can you

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00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: take us what that means and how it impacts you. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's definitely one of the issues I've never quite thought

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Speaker 1: i'd be talking about. UM. So you know, I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts on on that issue, um, both

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Speaker 1: um personally and professionally. So um, you know, I'll stick

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Speaker 1: to the professional side um of things. UM. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's a few kind of interesting facts to note.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, I think we're quickly morphing into

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Speaker 1: a fact free society because people just want to have

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Speaker 1: their opinions the facts be damned. But you know, from

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Speaker 1: a factual standpoint one, I think it's incredibly interesting to

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Speaker 1: note um and Scott I'm sure already knows this um

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Speaker 1: that the NBA has had um and currently has a

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Speaker 1: stricter rule as it relates to standing during the national

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Speaker 1: anthem that than the NFL has had exactly and and uh.

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Speaker 1: And the reality though is, would anybody sit here and

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Speaker 1: and say that the NBA as a league, or the

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Speaker 1: the NBA players as a group of individuals somehow care

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Speaker 1: less about social justice issues or any of the things

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Speaker 1: that are NFL players um have been trying to call

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Speaker 1: attention to via their actions during the anthem. And I

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Speaker 1: think the answer to that is, of course not right.

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Speaker 1: People like Lebron James and Steph Curry and and then

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Speaker 1: go into coaching staffs like Steve Kerr and and uh

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Speaker 1: and Gregg Popovich and and down, you know, all the

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Speaker 1: way up to Adam Silver have been very forceful and

427
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: very clear about these issues, all the while having a

428
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: rule on the books that is stricter than the nfls.

429
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: And so I think that right away as a fact

430
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: helps kind of deflate a bit of the polarizing like, hey,

431
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: anthem stand sit Neil, like what's going on? Um. The

432
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: other fact is that you know the history of this,

433
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: Colin almost Kaepernick almost two years ago now, which is amazing.

434
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: We're heading into the third straight season essentially of having

435
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: to talk about this stuff and and deal with it

436
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: every day that this is still an issue, and it's

437
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: still an issue because I'm not sure we're really anywhere right.

438
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we're still kind of figuring this out from

439
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: from a blank piece of paper and and um. You know,

440
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: Colin two years ago started by sitting um and he

441
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: then was pulled aside by a teammate who was a

442
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: veteran who said, listen, UM, you should try you should

443
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: kneel instead, because some people might be really offended by

444
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: the sitting um. But you know, if you kneel and

445
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: quiet contemplation, reflection um that that you know, you can

446
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: still kind of affect the same um discourse that you

447
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: want to affect without necessarily offending people. But it doesn't

448
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: matter what exactly, doesn't matter that the message was inspired

449
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: by a former Army ranger. I think it should. It should,

450
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: but does it as Yeah, it doesn't. No, I don't

451
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: think so, because it's become something totally different. I will

452
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: say this too, and I'm not defending kneeling by this

453
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: other fact that I want to mention, which is kneeling

454
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: is in every like in all of the world's major religions.

455
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure every single one of them. Kneeling is

456
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: constitute some for some some uh portion of prayer uh

457
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: in in all the major religions. So if kneeling in

458
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: and of itself is somehow disrespectful, why would that be

459
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 1: the case? And then the second part is, you know,

460
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: in a lot of cultures, men uh would be grooms

461
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: uh kneel before proposing to their fiance. And I'm pretty

462
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: sure they're not doing that as a sign of disrespect either.

463
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: And so you know, but you're right, because I think

464
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: we're way past that at this point, right, kneeling, fist

465
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: in the air, whatever, if you're not basically anything that

466
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: deviates from standing at attention, handover heart is going to

467
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: now attract um vitriol, particularly if you're a certain you

468
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: know race, frankly, and and that's that's a big part

469
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: of this, especially when that patriotism by the way, and

470
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: I felt that this was important and pointed out, but

471
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: again lost on the audience. I don't think cared that

472
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: the patriotism was paid for M and some of the

473
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: teams at the money. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, look,

474
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: the the Baseball's All Star Game in Home Run Derby

475
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: were right in my backyard in d C. And I

476
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: had the good fortune of going to both of those events,

477
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: and I was I was surprised how eager um. Now,

478
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: part of that was because it was in Washington, d C.

479
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: But how eager the Baseball League was to wrap the

480
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: entire ceremony. And there was some awesome moments, like the

481
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: Medal of Honor winners, and then there were organic moments.

482
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: When the medal of Honor winners had been introduced prior

483
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: to the All Star Game, both sets of the A

484
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: L and n L All Stars spontaneously went up and

485
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: spent like five minutes shaking their hands and like hugging them.

486
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: And so that's amazing and awesome to see, UM, but

487
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: clearly an example of a league not shying away but

488
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: running towards that issue. UM. And they don't, you know,

489
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: as a league have the same kinds of issues, um Or.

490
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: I guess player base as we do. UM. And I think,

491
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: you know, the goal should just really be what what is?

492
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: You know, what's the point? And I think one thing

493
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: we just can't lose sight of is as we sit

494
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: right here on you know, talking about this issue there

495
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: there's now not just Colin Kaepernick, but Eric Reid who

496
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: who you know, by any statistical objective measure, are unemployed

497
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: because of this issue. And and I think for a

498
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: lot of players, UM, that is that's a huge problem

499
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: that needs to be solved along with whatever the league

500
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: wants to do, whatever owners want to do. UM. On

501
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: as it relates to the rule surrounding the anthem UM,

502
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, we can't forget that there are two individuals.

503
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: And you know we've been supportive of Collins grievance and

504
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: and um we've been directly representing Eric and his grievances. UM.

505
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: But you know that that makes it all the more

506
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: um thorny of an issue. UM. And then you know,

507
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: back to your original question about how it's affected me

508
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 1: in the work context. You know, I've had tons of

509
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: sponsors and licensees wanting to talk about, well, what's going on,

510
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: what's the deal. I've heard all sorts of different things

511
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: about whether it's affecting business. UM. Some people have said

512
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: that it is absolutely affecting their business. Others have said

513
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: it it hasn't affected it at all, UM, and their

514
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: businesses have continued to grow. So there's no you know,

515
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: one size fits all answer that this this anthem issue

516
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: has absolutely been a negative, um, you know effect on

517
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: the overall NFL business. UM, despite some people saying that

518
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: it absolutely has been. You guys are, in essence acting

519
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: like venture capitalists. You're taking equity and new companies for

520
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: the for the right to use the players marks and

521
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: license and and and faces. And that's because a lot

522
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: of these companies don't have the cash to get such deals.

523
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: But the idea and how is it working right now? UM.

524
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: We've we rolled that out about a year and a

525
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: half ago. UM. We've had five companies come across the

526
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: radar and apply. We've we've signed deals where we've gotten

527
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: equity stakes in eight or nine UM. And we've met

528
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: a ton of interesting people along the way, UM, people

529
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: like David Stern, who's kind of doing a version of

530
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: this now that he's retired from being the NBA Commissioner. UM.

531
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: All of the major vcs out in Silicon Valley and

532
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: Seattle and l A, New York, UM and so I

533
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: think the biggest thing is it's really opened our eyes

534
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: too beyond the sports industry, um and so we've learned

535
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: a lot about that, but I think um for us,

536
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: it's also opened our set of rights and what we

537
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: do as as a business to early stage companies and

538
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: startups that would not otherwise. We're looking for the next

539
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: Nike and e A and and under Armour frankly, and

540
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: and you know, we were already barred all the We

541
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: already worked with all those companies, but they're at a

542
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: point now where they're huge, publicly traded companies. And I

543
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: think we can help these smaller, earlier stage companies hopefully

544
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: get to that point. And by working with them earlier,

545
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: I think we make the the possibility and the opportunity

546
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: for us and our players much larger. Mind, let's put

547
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: this one on bar because since we were talking about

548
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: John Madden, and he's got the best voice of us,

549
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: no offense, but it's far better than mine, better than yours. Ready,

550
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: bar remember Madden when there'd be a huge collision on

551
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: the field, give me, give me your best flap, give

552
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: me a Madden flap. And he came there and he

553
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: hit him right and oh, look at that play. And

554
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: then then he would take the tellustrator and then you know,

555
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: you draw marks on it. Next thing, you know, remember

556
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: the one he did with the Remember he didn't want

557
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: about the two gatorade buckets. They had two buckets and

558
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: then they had a little baby gatorade bucket andrew a

559
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: circle around that. That's why I love Madden. Do you

560
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: see what it's like working with him? But but I

561
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: asked him to work in flap and he gives me

562
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: a bam or whatever. This is what's like working It's

563
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: it's impossible to Madness President of NFL Players And thank

564
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: you so much for taking some time. Thank you both.

565
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: Thank you. Takeaways from the interview. We were very lucky

566
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: because we always get the very smart people when we

567
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: do these interviews. And you can tell that he had

568
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: a law background because he knows what he's doing a judge. Yeah,

569
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he knows what he's doing in this. And

570
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm impressed that he is teaching the people in the

571
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: NFL don't leave the money on the table because there's

572
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: a lot there. Yeah. Well, I'm always impressed that the

573
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: unions are taking on the bigger roles these days at

574
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: this union. I mean, it really used to be the

575
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: collective bargaining was percent of what the unions were there for,

576
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: and that's still a major point of what they do.

577
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: But this union is now acting almost like talent agent

578
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: and rep and on a bigger scale. With the one

579
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: team collective, they're acting as venture capital funds. They're really

580
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: finding ways to grow the money and share it with

581
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: the members. Feels better to be number one than number five.

582
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: I'll wear a number because of Mike. We have a

583
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: chance to go for three in a row, good numbers

584
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: at a good time. And let's first started wearing the number.

585
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: I would just have the floomberg business of sports. The

586
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: number of the week. Time now for the number of

587
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: the week, and it's a big number for us. One

588
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: hundred you you turn one hundred. Oh you're the card. Hey,

589
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: look a hundred shows next week. That's doing something with

590
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: sports betting at the forefront now in this whole newsroom,

591
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: lots of people when they heard Michael Barr and Sashnik

592
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: are getting a show, how many had the under Oh

593
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: can I see a show of hands? Was the game

594
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: show card shark? Someone said to Lord Lord yea, I

595
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: am so grateful. I mean I am being sincere about this.

596
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: I am. I know we joking, kid, but with you

597
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: and Evan uh and Medina, all of us as a team,

598
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: I am a very lucky individual to be working with

599
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: you guys. And we don't have a show without you,

600
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Evan and Medina. And I really mean that I was

601
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: gonna get sent a medal Medina, and I'm just say

602
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: you're right. Seriously, what we said, what we said out

603
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: at the start to do and practice makes perfect. All

604
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: that we have gotten better. It was not great that

605
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: we we we've gotten better. We've kind of hit a

606
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: stride in the comfort level with each other. But what

607
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: we set out to do is entertain people, which I

608
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: think we do, and educate people, which I know we do.

609
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: So if we combine those things and continue to combine

610
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: those things with the quality of the guests that we have,

611
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: these are the leaders of the industry sharing their thoughts

612
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: and their strategies and and their positions and their reasonings,

613
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: there'll be another hundred behind. And the most important person

614
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: to thank you, the listener, because we are grateful that

615
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: you listen to us each and every week, and we

616
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: have upcoming guests, hopefully a future down the road where

617
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: we can do two hundred. But again, thank you for

618
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: listening to us because it means a lot to us.

619
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: We really do mean it. You have been listening to

620
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports. We are here each and every

621
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: week at the same time, exploring the world of money

622
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: and sports. Michael Bar on Twitter at Big Bar Sports

623
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Big Bar, and I'm Scott Sashnik. You can follow me

624
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Sashnik. Thanks for joining us, and please

625
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: tune in next week when we speak with the biggest

626
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: and brightest in the sports business industry. You're listening to

627
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world

628
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: and online as an Apple podcast on iTunes.