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Speaker 1: M hm okay. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

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Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all

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Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

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Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard

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Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

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Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit

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Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While

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Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for a

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Speaker 1: relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining me for such an one sixty

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Speaker 1: two of the Erapy for Black Girls Podcast. Much of

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Speaker 1: what we've been experiencing in various ways over the past

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Speaker 1: couple of months is grief. Grief related to the loss

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Speaker 1: of loved ones, our previous way of life, and our

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Speaker 1: ideas about what would look like. To help us dig

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Speaker 1: a little deeper into what grief looks like. Giving our

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Speaker 1: current state of affairs, Dr a Jetta Robinson returns with

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Speaker 1: us as a guest. Dr Robinson is a licensed clinical professional, counselor,

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Speaker 1: trauma and grief expert. First generation, trauma and poverty disruptor.

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Speaker 1: She is the founder and executive director of Friends and

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Speaker 1: Transition Counseling Services, a trauma centered mental health practice located

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Speaker 1: in Bethesda, Maryland. She's also the CEO of Legacy Wellness Group,

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Speaker 1: a conglomerate of enterprises dedicated to promoting generational wealth, education,

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Speaker 1: and healing. Dr Robinson and I chatted about our collective

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Speaker 1: sense of grief, how our rituals around grief have been upbended,

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Speaker 1: the importance of processing symbolic losses, and her thoughts about

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Speaker 1: the work that will need to be done on the

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Speaker 1: other end of the pandemic. If you hear something that

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Speaker 1: resonates with you while listening, please remember to share it

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Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag tv g

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Speaker 1: in session. My apologies in advance as we did have

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Speaker 1: some tech issues with this interview. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being back with us today, Dr Robinson,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I am

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Speaker 1: very happy that you were able to join us again. Um,

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Speaker 1: you joined us for session thirty one of the podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and so it feels very timely to have you back,

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Speaker 1: given that it feels like much of what we have

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Speaker 1: been dealing with in tw is grief. Absolutely. I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things that is really profound for me

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Speaker 1: is that for the first time in a very long time,

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Speaker 1: I think we're all experience thing or noticing the collective

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Speaker 1: grief that we're experiencing that doesn't always have to relate

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Speaker 1: with people dying that's happening, but we're recognizing that grief

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Speaker 1: manifests as a result of other experiences as well, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's opening up a dialogue that we haven't

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Speaker 1: had capacity to have in a while. Yeah, you talked

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Speaker 1: about that a lot on your last visit. You know

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Speaker 1: that grief is much more than just us losing loved ones.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about some of those

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Speaker 1: symbolic losses? Absolutely? So. I was also want to say

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Speaker 1: that grief is a universal experience, but that is unique

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Speaker 1: for each of us, and so we will navigate a

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Speaker 1: variety of spaces, nonlinear processes that are triggered by not

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Speaker 1: just the death of a loved one, but some of

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Speaker 1: these day to day losses that we experienced, such as

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Speaker 1: things are really being amplified right now because of this

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Speaker 1: pandemic and some of the racial injustices that are occurring,

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Speaker 1: such as loss of safety, both emotional, psychological and for

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Speaker 1: some physical as well, loss of stability, loss of routine,

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Speaker 1: loss of some of these milestones, of anniversaries. Some are

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Speaker 1: experiencing loss of control, loss of income, loss of identity.

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Speaker 1: All of those are symbolic losses. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: The body doesn't know that the loss of symbolic. It

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Speaker 1: grieves the same as if the loss is physical. And

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Speaker 1: so it's so importantly because I often hear people minimize

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Speaker 1: their losses because no one died, right, And so I

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Speaker 1: think that is an it's an unfair comparison to make.

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Speaker 1: It is a unique experience, and the body is going

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Speaker 1: to do grief work regardless of what the trigger is.

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Speaker 1: And so that's important for us to just know one

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Speaker 1: understands that it's such an important point. Can you say

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about how grief sometimes shows up

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Speaker 1: in our body? Absolutely, and so it can show up

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Speaker 1: physically in our body, and oftentimes that is what first

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Speaker 1: alerts us that something isn't okay, is that we are

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Speaker 1: physically feeling it. We might feel paying in our stomach,

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Speaker 1: it might be some gi issues such uh, just normal pain, right,

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Speaker 1: what feels like issued digesting food it maybe you know

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Speaker 1: the think he's like diarrhea, things like that, we feel

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Speaker 1: it in our choice. Even numbness in extremities is pretty common,

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Speaker 1: chest pain, micrains, loss of memory, concentration, all of those things.

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Speaker 1: Even we've seen folks present with respiratory issues right that

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Speaker 1: feel like they are physical or biological in nature, but

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Speaker 1: then really be cyclosmatic complaints as a result of both

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Speaker 1: brief and trauma, right. And so the body scores all

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Speaker 1: of that, especially if we're in a prolonged activated state

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Speaker 1: like we have been in this pandemic that's now followed

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Speaker 1: up with the racial injustice and the rest of occurring.

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Speaker 1: All of those things are heightened states of being which

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Speaker 1: requires the body to operate on a very different level,

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Speaker 1: which often means that we are heightened cortisol levels, which

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Speaker 1: is never great. That we're on the body right physically

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Speaker 1: and psychologically. So all of those things are responses to

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Speaker 1: both greef and trauma that we may not necessarily code

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Speaker 1: of briefings. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And you know, as I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to you talk, I am finding myself overwhelmed, and

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Speaker 1: I think it goes back to this this collective grief

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Speaker 1: that you were talking about, right, So many of us

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Speaker 1: have been sheltering in place or at least you know,

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Speaker 1: modified connecting with others for quite some time now. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people have lost loved ones. We have lost really

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Speaker 1: all sense of normalcy at this point, and like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: just continuing racial injustices. And so I'm wondering, what does

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Speaker 1: processing all of this grief even look like compared to

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Speaker 1: maybe when you would maybe just lose a job, but

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Speaker 1: other things are going okay in your life. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so I think that the ambiguous nature of laws, right,

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Speaker 1: and that it's so there's really no domain of our

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Speaker 1: life that is an impact normally, you know, when our

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Speaker 1: personal life is going to you know, tacking to hanvest

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Speaker 1: it right automatically in the dumpster because of things that

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Speaker 1: are happening, we're usually able to you know, go to

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Speaker 1: work and disconnect from that and block it out. Well,

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Speaker 1: we have we're doing all of that in in our homes, right,

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Speaker 1: many of us are or we're going into spaces office

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Speaker 1: spaces that aren't feeling space and that aren't we're grieving

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Speaker 1: there as well, right, We are triggered there as well.

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Speaker 1: So there's no escape, and so even though we don't

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Speaker 1: typically want to use escapism as a coping mechanism, it

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Speaker 1: does minimize that feeling of overwhelmed because we're not constantly

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Speaker 1: having to encounter it and grapple with it. We can

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Speaker 1: you know, do some of the grief work and walk

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Speaker 1: away from it so that it isn't just overwhelming totally

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Speaker 1: encompassing experience. And that's what we're seeing is that there's

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Speaker 1: no there's no release, right, There's no relief from what's

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Speaker 1: happening in there's no end in sight, right. I think

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Speaker 1: that is also compounding it. And so our normal things

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Speaker 1: that we might use, such as you know, disconnecting and

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Speaker 1: hanging out with friends or you know, going to the

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Speaker 1: movies or other ways that we're able to just modulate

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Speaker 1: the amount of emotions we're having to contend with. We

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Speaker 1: don't have those resources right now. They're not available to

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Speaker 1: us in the ways that they were. And actually on

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Speaker 1: the other end, right, is that we now have this

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Speaker 1: over stimulation of things that's actually not allowing us to

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Speaker 1: check out, right, And so we're engaged in social media

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Speaker 1: in a way that even though we were on social

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Speaker 1: media before, we usually have breaks because we had to

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Speaker 1: go do something right, or go be somewhere or at

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Speaker 1: you know whatever, it might be, hit in the car,

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Speaker 1: what have you. There was these breaks in that exposure

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Speaker 1: that now we're just being flooded, right, And many of

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Speaker 1: us didn't have great boundaries around or or um maybe

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Speaker 1: the insight that we needed or awareness that we needed

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Speaker 1: are around what our boundaries are around how much we consume,

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Speaker 1: right or the things that we do to help reregulate ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We are kind of just managing it in really I

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Speaker 1: think a distancing kind of way, right, distancing ourselves from

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Speaker 1: the trigger by being busy with people, with things, with work, whatever.

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Speaker 1: And now all of those things that we normally use

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Speaker 1: to cope out really available in the same way, right,

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Speaker 1: So we're having to relearn that as well. So that's

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Speaker 1: one of my concerns is that we're seeing more complex grief,

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Speaker 1: which is often a result of traumatic experiences and cumulative

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Speaker 1: and compounded Greek experience is like what many in the

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Speaker 1: black and indigenous people of color groups are experiencing as

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Speaker 1: a result of repeat exposures. Right. My concern is that

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Speaker 1: one it it is occurring, and then too that this

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Speaker 1: population is disuportunately impacted but also underrepresented in the healthcare

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Speaker 1: mental health care service system, right, and so less likely

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Speaker 1: to either receive treatment or receive culturally comm to care.

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Speaker 1: And then the amount of clinicians we have that are

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Speaker 1: actually trying to treat complex trauma in this population, because

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Speaker 1: I'm really I am concerned about what this all means

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Speaker 1: for the overall hope and healing for this particular population,

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Speaker 1: which I'm remember of, right, and so I'm aware of

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Speaker 1: being you know, I'm not unaffected by all of these things, right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I echo your concern there, and just you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about, like, even if you didn't necessarily come into

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Speaker 1: this with different layers of trauma, it definitely feels like

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Speaker 1: there's enough going on now that would yeah, it would,

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Speaker 1: it would it would trigger the complex trauma. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So what kinds of things do you feel like we

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Speaker 1: might be able to do well? What kinds of resources

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Speaker 1: maybe should we be trying to kind of store within

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Speaker 1: ourselves to try to work through some of this grief again,

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Speaker 1: because it is not kind of your simple grief, and

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Speaker 1: it's not happening simple being that there's no violent or

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Speaker 1: traumatic component to it. Given that that is not the case.

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Speaker 1: I think that it is so so important that we

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Speaker 1: give ourselves permission to seek professional support. I think that

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Speaker 1: that is going to be more important now than it

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Speaker 1: has ever been. Is that we are I think, real

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Speaker 1: with ourselves about what our coping strategies are. Some of

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Speaker 1: them they aren't working for us right now, right, and

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Speaker 1: so being able to kind of evaluate and be honest

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Speaker 1: about where we need support. I think we are so

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Speaker 1: used to helping others. This goes for us clinicians, but

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Speaker 1: also for everyday people. We're so used to helping others

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Speaker 1: that we haven't really cultivated a habit of receiving support.

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Speaker 1: And so when people are asking you how you're doing,

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Speaker 1: we're so used to saying I'm fine. So we're not

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Speaker 1: even telling the story or naming the thing that we're

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Speaker 1: struggling with, right, And so that's gonna be a big

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Speaker 1: part of it. A big part of grief work is

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Speaker 1: just naming the thing. Grief and trauma work is naming

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Speaker 1: the injury, the womb, wherever you the feelings, right, and

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Speaker 1: so that is going to be important. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times in grief work, we do this through narrative work

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Speaker 1: or storytelling it's important that we have spaces to do

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Speaker 1: that that aren't triggering to other people. And so one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that we want to create the habit

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Speaker 1: of talking about it is so that we don't do

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Speaker 1: the verbal vomit and that becomes overwhelming to whoever is

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Speaker 1: on the receiving end, because we've been storing up the

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Speaker 1: story that whoever listens longest gets it right. And so

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Speaker 1: if we're able to do that more often, whether it

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Speaker 1: be actually talking to people or support groups or journaling,

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Speaker 1: that we have a space to get it out so

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Speaker 1: it can metabolize in a place outside of our body,

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Speaker 1: so that we can make sense of it in a

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Speaker 1: way that isn't just holding onto it. And so that

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Speaker 1: piece is really really important again because if we hold

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Speaker 1: it, it it literally stores in our body and it affects

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Speaker 1: other It affects us on a global level. Right, finding

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Speaker 1: ways to be connected to the people who are good

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Speaker 1: for you, good in your life, and if we don't

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Speaker 1: have them, be intentional about seeking those communities and relationships

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Speaker 1: even in this socially distant space that is still possible,

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Speaker 1: utilizing technology, online, offline groups, um phone, things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: and so really being creative and leaning into that and

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Speaker 1: then in the name of loss, in the interests of

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Speaker 1: honoring that that we've lost, naming it, seeking support around

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Speaker 1: those experiences, as well as finding a way to find

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Speaker 1: meaning in that and not in the loss itself, but

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Speaker 1: in what life looks like afterwards. And this is the

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Speaker 1: part that is so important to the grief and healing work.

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Speaker 1: But that for some of us feels like it's escaping

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Speaker 1: us because our everyday world is changing. So how do

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Speaker 1: I find meaning in life post loss when I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what life looks like? And so in that instance,

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Speaker 1: what does it look like today? What are the things

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Speaker 1: that you can do or choose to not do today

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Speaker 1: that honors what you've lost? And so sometimes for some

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Speaker 1: of us, that's giving ourselves permission to not do things

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Speaker 1: that actually don't serve us anymore. We do them because

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Speaker 1: we're so used to doing them when we do them,

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Speaker 1: because of expectations around doing them right. This might be saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, today I actually the mental health to day

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Speaker 1: from my job, and yes I'm working from home, but

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Speaker 1: today I cannot do this work. And that may be

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Speaker 1: the best way you can honor where you are in

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Speaker 1: your grief journey today and tomorrow might present itself with

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Speaker 1: something new. What are the routines and the rhythms rather,

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Speaker 1: that you can re establish in your life based on

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Speaker 1: what your body and emotions are telling you that you need, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I've been helping clients create these routines that

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Speaker 1: create some predictability about their day because there's so much

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Speaker 1: that they know more that it's really important that we

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Speaker 1: find those when we can, because the essence of trauma

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Speaker 1: is a loss of safety, including the loss of routines, right,

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Speaker 1: And so the ways that we can capture those things

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Speaker 1: is really important to our overall sense of self. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know that remind as me as something you share

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Speaker 1: the last time you were here, just about how grief

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Speaker 1: often strikes the hardest at night, right when things have

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Speaker 1: kind of calmed down for the day and you know,

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Speaker 1: you're more kind of alone with your thoughts. But now

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Speaker 1: then night and day really kind of run together, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of feels hard to know when is cutting

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Speaker 1: off time, so to speak. I'm wondering if you're seeing

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Speaker 1: any differences in that I'm seeing it just to be

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Speaker 1: more pervasive, and it feels so intrusive because it's happening.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly still happening at night, because that's still when

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Speaker 1: we're most quiet, most still in your brains, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you have time, you're available. Let's let's experience that or

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Speaker 1: let's work through that. But now, because we're not so

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Speaker 1: distracted by busy, right, whether it be our commute or extracurriculars,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, the body is like, oh, we have time, right,

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Speaker 1: we're available, and so it feels intrusive because it catches

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Speaker 1: up off scar because we're doing something as monotonous is

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Speaker 1: washing dishes, um, we're not using the same kind of

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Speaker 1: capacity that we might be on when we were at

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Speaker 1: work or what have you, and so the body is

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Speaker 1: attempting to do repaired to work whenever it feels like

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Speaker 1: there's resources that can divert to doing that. And so

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Speaker 1: we're just seeing it happen, and combined with the fact

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Speaker 1: that we're exposed to stimuli because we're online, we're watching

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Speaker 1: the news, we're in these Facebook groups, were on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: all of these things is keeping us very much grounded

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Speaker 1: in the triggers, and so it makes sense that we're

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Speaker 1: being flooded throughout the day as well. Something else that

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Speaker 1: I believe has been contributing to our grief and trauma.

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Speaker 1: Is continuing to consume videos and stories about black people

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Speaker 1: dying at the hands of the police. Can you share

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the impact that might have on us?

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Speaker 1: And so we're consuming these this content throughout the day

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Speaker 1: that actually is negatively impacting us, right, and so it's

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Speaker 1: creating what we call a vicarious trauma response just by

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Speaker 1: the consumption of watching the videos or reading the articles

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Speaker 1: that detailed the deaths of the people, right the people

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Speaker 1: that we've lost, whether it be to COVID or due

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Speaker 1: to some of the racial and police brutality that's you know,

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Speaker 1: being amplified right now. And so that certainly is happening

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Speaker 1: because again, even if you aren't watching the video and

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Speaker 1: you're reading the stories or reading the Facebook post or

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Speaker 1: things like that, your body creates an image of what

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Speaker 1: you've heard, what you've seen, and it stores it in

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Speaker 1: your brain and your body. And so i vicarious trauma

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Speaker 1: or secondary trauma is created anytime we're hearing, watching, or

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Speaker 1: experiencing trauma through a means other than direct witnessing and victimization.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't have to happen to you through secondary

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Speaker 1: vicarious exposure, you can develop the same symptoms of post

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Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder. And so we've got to be mindful

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Speaker 1: of our own mental health and wellness as you honor

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Speaker 1: the lives that are being lost. You can bear witness

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Speaker 1: to to seeking justice without being witnessed to their injury

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Speaker 1: into their death. This is the point that I really

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Speaker 1: struggle with because I of course know that oftentimes it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like we can and even begin to get justice,

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Speaker 1: especially in the cases of these racial incidents, right, because

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Speaker 1: if there is not video, and so then in the

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Speaker 1: attempt to call attention to it and make sure if

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Speaker 1: something happens, people are sharing the video everywhere, right, And

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Speaker 1: I don't think that we always think about how psychologically

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Speaker 1: impactful ideas for us videos and stories and you know,

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Speaker 1: all in the call for justice. Absolutely it is traumatic,

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely traumatic. It is another piece that is

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Speaker 1: it's compounded by this race based component, right, because we

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Speaker 1: know history and president events tell us that if we

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Speaker 1: aren't advocating, right, and that that feels like the bearing

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Speaker 1: witness part, then other people will look at this video

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Speaker 1: and see something very different. And so we have felt

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Speaker 1: a responsibility to to witness, right, so that we can

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Speaker 1: be preservers of justice right, so that we can advocate,

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Speaker 1: and we do that by knowing. And so I think

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Speaker 1: also part of it is in in our own way,

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Speaker 1: wanting to make sure that that person that we've lost,

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Speaker 1: that they weren't alone, that their their life has meaning,

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Speaker 1: and we mistake that by by thinking that we have

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Speaker 1: to witness the thing that occurred right in order to

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Speaker 1: be able to fully tell their stories are fully seek

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Speaker 1: justice for them. Because there's such discrepancy in the way

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Speaker 1: these events are rules right or handled with the police,

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Speaker 1: and the way that they're covered in the media, and

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Speaker 1: so we have been become responsible for shaping their narrative

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Speaker 1: because we can't rely on those that we should be

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Speaker 1: able to. At least it's the feeling we can't rely

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Speaker 1: on the stories that are being told about us and

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Speaker 1: our loved ones and are those that we identify with,

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Speaker 1: because they have consistently misused the narrative. They've consistently mistold

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Speaker 1: the stories right, and that has been a contributing factor

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Speaker 1: to the miscarriage of justice. Hmm. Absolutely. So the other

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Speaker 1: thing that has been really upended throughout the coronavirus is

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Speaker 1: that we are not able to gather to send a

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Speaker 1: loved one off. You know, we love a good homegoing

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Speaker 1: service right when we have had to either forego that

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Speaker 1: all together or they look completely different. So can you

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how the change in that

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Speaker 1: ritual that we are used to is also impact and grief.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, it is so complex. Again, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I keep using that word, but it's the best

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Speaker 1: way to describe it. The ambiguous nature and disconnect that

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Speaker 1: many are feeling in these funerals or rituals is profound.

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Speaker 1: I had a client. I'm going to blend some of

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Speaker 1: them together for the sake of confidentiality, but imagine kind

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Speaker 1: of being at a funeral for your grandmother and not

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Speaker 1: being able to console your mother because of a need

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Speaker 1: to keep her safe, and thus denying both of you

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Speaker 1: the comfort of touch and togetherness that we thrive on

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Speaker 1: contact emotionally and physically. We're relational being, but we're having

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Speaker 1: to choose between feeling connected and being safe. It's a

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Speaker 1: natural the body and the brain. They don't understand the

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Speaker 1: deprivation that we are required to maintain in the the

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Speaker 1: name of safety. The body is trained to survive, and

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Speaker 1: so what my concern is is that we are actively

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Speaker 1: and intentionally social social distancing. But it's desynthesizing ourselves with

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Speaker 1: repeated isolation and deprivation of touch and connectedness and community

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Speaker 1: that I think is going to further impact our ability

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Speaker 1: to emotionally regulate. We're already seeing this. We're seeing heightened

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Speaker 1: stimulation seeking behaviors such as eating and you know, consumption

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Speaker 1: of television and shopping, and so we're coping in other

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Speaker 1: ways because we're trying to connect. Right, We're seeking stimulation

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Speaker 1: because we've numbed ourselves against the disconnect and being able

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Speaker 1: to really be fully present with our loved ones and

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Speaker 1: honoring what's already a very difficult life transition of death,

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Speaker 1: a loss of job, or whatever it might be. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm concerned about that disconnect that we're having to

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Speaker 1: impose in the ways that we are training ourselves to

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Speaker 1: not be present because we can't be right um in

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Speaker 1: a full body experience way, because we have to disconnect

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Speaker 1: the physical from the emotional in order to remember to

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Speaker 1: maintain six ft of distance at a funeral. It is

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Speaker 1: a very unnatural thing. And so my concerns as doing

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Speaker 1: grief and trauma work is the reintegration component that I

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Speaker 1: believe will create some retriggering when we do have you know,

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Speaker 1: these delayed memorials that people are already looking forward to

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Speaker 1: our planning because they feel like the ones that they

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Speaker 1: did via zoom didn't do their love one justice or

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Speaker 1: they still need to do the in person when whenever

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Speaker 1: it's safe to do so. But the desensitization and the disconnect,

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to create a retriggering of mourning

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Speaker 1: and thus more complex trauma as we begin to reconcile

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Speaker 1: that we've actually the body has already gone through these feelings,

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Speaker 1: but we disconnected ourselves from it because we've had to um.

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Speaker 1: And so what happens when we attempt to reintegrate that

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Speaker 1: right and do we actually feel safe, are we able

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Speaker 1: to engage or will it become this a performative expression

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Speaker 1: component that leaves us feeling numb and disconnected all over again.

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Speaker 1: And so the reintegration of that not only traumon erat

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Speaker 1: a bit healing pieces where I'm kind of most concerned

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Speaker 1: about what that means for us long term. So I'm wondering,

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Speaker 1: when you are talking, when clients are maybe even for

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Speaker 1: people who are listening, should there maybe be a second

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Speaker 1: thought about whether there should be a more public gathering

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Speaker 1: when it's safe for us together if you've already had

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Speaker 1: like the Zoom memorial or something m H. I think people,

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Speaker 1: I think people need that UM, and so I have

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Speaker 1: continued to encourage clients to UM continue to plan those

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Speaker 1: but I have encouraged them to still do the work now. UM.

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Speaker 1: For some folks, because they haven't had the physical gathering

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Speaker 1: or they never even had a funeral, the loss isn't

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Speaker 1: actually real because COVID made it hard to see that

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Speaker 1: person anyway. And so I think that is going to

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Speaker 1: come full circle. I think preparing for that to be

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Speaker 1: a regrieving and retrigging experience is going to be important.

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Speaker 1: But thinking about what are the rituals and the grieving

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Speaker 1: traditions that we can still engage in. Right at the

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Speaker 1: core of some of those rituals or traditions is a purpose.

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Speaker 1: Can we identify what the purposes and still do that

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Speaker 1: in a different way? And so we have to reimagine

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Speaker 1: the ways that we can do the honoring and the

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Speaker 1: memorializing in the meantime right because I think not doing

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Speaker 1: it or not preparing ourselves for having to redo it

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00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: and that all of those feelings will feel brand new again.

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Speaker 1: Is preparing us to be really infected in ways that

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Speaker 1: we just can't anticipate, right, And so I think if

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Speaker 1: you can seek support again formally and informally, do that, now,

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Speaker 1: do the online gatherings, If you can do authentic check

432
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: ins and listening, how are you able to honor your

433
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: loved ones life today and what that means for your

434
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: life to the best of your ability. I think going

435
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: through those tasks is going to be really really important

436
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: because I would hate for someone to encounter those things

437
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: for the first time at that second memorial or whatever

438
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: it might be. Again, I'm concerned about the complexity and

439
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: the compounded factors that are likely to her mm hmmm. Yeah.

440
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing, you know, kind of

441
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: going back to our earlier conversation about the fact that

442
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: grief is not just the loss of a loved one,

443
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: I think it is difficult for people to sometimes conceptualize

444
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: these other like symbolic lasses like you mentioned, because there

445
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: are so many rituals around the laws of a loved one, right,

446
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: Like we know the thing to do are the things

447
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: to do, and for more symbolic losses, there aren't those

448
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: same rituals or traditions. Are there things that you would

449
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: suggest that people can maybe facilitate for themselves or with

450
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: their support system or with their therapists as a way

451
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: to have some tradition and ritual around these symbolic losses. Yeah,

452
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 1: and so a lot of these are around. You know,

453
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: if it's a loss of a relationship, there's things that

454
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: we can do. We lose parts of ourselves and relationships

455
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: even when they're good, right, and so there's a reclaiming

456
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: process that we can go through. There's a self discovery

457
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: or rediscovery process. You know, there's a cleansing process that's

458
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: a part of rituals in mourning when they're symbolic. That

459
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: can apply to a variety of different losses. It really

460
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: depends on what the losses and what we're wanting to

461
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: maybe restore or renew. I think identifying what we want

462
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: life to look like for ourselves, what are the things

463
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: that are potential barriers and being able to do kind

464
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: of our own self work. Sometimes we have a lot

465
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: of guilt. That's actually a very common emotion and shame around.

466
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: You know, if we lost our job right during this pandemic,

467
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: there's a lot of shame in how much of our

468
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 1: identity is wrapped in that job, and so what are

469
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: the way or sometimes we stay to the job too long, right,

470
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: or we feel like we have given our best years

471
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: to a job that didn't value us or whatever, And

472
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: so one honoring that that sense of loss, but also

473
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: giving yourself permission to reimagine the ways your skill sets

474
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: or your passions are still alive and and can be

475
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: kind of recreated in different experiences. Right, but we still

476
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: have to read those losses, and so I think giving

477
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 1: yourself permission to not discount the symbolic loss and go

478
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: through the normal mourning process like you live with the

479
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: physical loss, and then what does life look like post that?

480
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: I think COVID is making that interesting for us because

481
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: we just don't know what the day to day is

482
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: going to look like. But there are still things that

483
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: we can do, um whether they be going back for

484
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: additional training or for some of us, it's giving us

485
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: space to be and to not do for the very

486
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: first time in our life and being able to be

487
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: okay with that that Sometimes that's that might be exactly

488
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: what we need if we have the room to explore

489
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: that at because we have been doing for so long

490
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: that what might it look like if we're actually still

491
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: on purpose. What might we find and learn about ourselves

492
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: about what we actually desire for us when we're able

493
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: to do that? And so I think that's a unique

494
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: process for everyone, and giving yourself the space to explore

495
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: that with someone that can do grief work with you. So,

496
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, the other thing that I have been thinking

497
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: about throughout our conversation is just how you know, like

498
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: you mentioned, we are all experiencing some level of collective

499
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: grief related to everything that is happening, and how a

500
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: lot of our bandwidths are very low at this point, right,

501
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: and so usually you know, within your sphere of support,

502
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, somebody is kind of wonderful tank and so

503
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: they can be there a little bit more for other people,

504
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: right and now, probably most of us are operating at

505
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: a half tank or lower. And so I'm wondering if

506
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: you have ideas about how we can continue to take

507
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: care of ourselves so that we can continue to show up,

508
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 1: but also how we might be able to stay at

509
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: boundaries when we want to be able to be there

510
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: to support somebody who might be greeting yeah again, I'm

511
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: a big fan of therapy, your faith, exercise. Those are

512
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: all different things that you can do to take care

513
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: of yourself. Journaling, um, some of the normal coping stuff, right,

514
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: but also giving yourself permission to disconnect. Right, So giving

515
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: yourself some downtime, again, not when you're sick and worn out,

516
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: but again in a in a way to restore yourself. Um.

517
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: Giving yourself space for creative things. Storytelling, music and art

518
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: are really restorative practices therapeutically, both formally as well as informally.

519
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: I think that listening to your body. I talk about

520
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: routines a lot, but I think in this space we

521
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: have to be intentional about rhythms. And so given that

522
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: our day to day is changing, the routines might feel

523
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: outside of our reach. But if we listen to the

524
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: rhythm of your body and just really getting connected but self.

525
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: Your body tells you what it eats. And sometimes it's

526
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: a midday nap, right, and not as a way to escape,

527
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: but because we actually didn't sleep well last night. Because

528
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: that gets disrupted too in the midst of grief and trauma, right,

529
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: And so listening to those rhythms is really important. Sometimes

530
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: your body needs movement you feel it because your hips

531
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: feel like they're backing up, you lose sensation in your toes.

532
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: You need to move your body listen to that rhythm.

533
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: And so those are some self care things that I

534
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 1: think are important. I also think giving us again, a

535
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: lot of this is mindset. We have been trained in

536
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: condition to be available and accessible. That actually isn't what

537
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: most people need from you. People benefit from you having

538
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: good boundaries, and sometimes it is our lack of boundaries

539
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: that keeps people in a place where they feel co

540
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: dependent on us, because we have a need to feel needed, right,

541
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: And so I think boundaries are your best friend. They

542
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: have to be, And it's not about creating a barrier

543
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: to access in you. It's about creating a boundary around

544
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: your resources and conserving that so that it can be

545
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: used more effectively for those who actually needed, including yourself. Right,

546
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: creating a boundary around access, whether it be you act

547
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: giving information or receiving information. I think boundaries are really

548
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: really important. They get a bad rap, but they are

549
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: so important for keeping you intact. I think those are

550
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: some of the things that we want to be intentional about.

551
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: Is intentionally being not available so that you can refill

552
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: your own cup is important, especially because none of us

553
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: are unaffected. I also think that it's really really important

554
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 1: that we are mindful about the ways we are evaluating

555
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: the way other people are coping or dealing, because I've

556
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: seen friendships unravel in the midst of trauma and chaos

557
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: because we are not clear that somebody is in it

558
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: with us or they're not available in the ways we

559
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: need them to. But if we can just remember that

560
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: we're all doing the best that we can and our

561
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: grief looks different, does I mean we're not doing it.

562
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: It just means it's different, and it's important that we

563
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: don't impose our values on other people's great process. Mm hmmm.

564
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: So several times throughout this conversation, Dr Robinson, you said,

565
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: this is what I'm concerned about on the other side

566
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: of this, right, And so, of course I'm not asking

567
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: you necessarily to read into our future, but I am

568
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: curious about some of the things that you think we

569
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: will have to be making sure we're paying attention to

570
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: as we kind of come out of sheltering in place

571
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: and you know, things start to open up a little

572
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: bit more. What kinds of things do you think we

573
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: do need to be paying attention to or might expect

574
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: related to grief. Mm hmmm. I think being retriggered. It's

575
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: going to be a big one, being retriggered by everyday things, right,

576
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: and so it may be having some anticipatory grief around

577
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: going back to work. That is it's normal, right, It's

578
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: it's it is normal in general. It is heightened in

579
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: this setting because COVID hasn't gone way, right, and because

580
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: we have this additional layer around the injustice and and

581
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: still navigating what life looks like as we embark on

582
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: kind of rewriting some of the fabric of our society, right,

583
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: and so we may not be sure how we're going

584
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: to be treated if we walk into the grocery store

585
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: or other spaces. Right, all of those things creates anticipatory

586
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: group but also some anxiety around that. But knowing that

587
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: the anxiety comes with the grief, right, the loss of normality,

588
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: loss of the norms, loss of structure, all of those things.

589
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: I think being acutely aware of what our triggers are

590
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: and knowing that those can change, we have been removed,

591
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: particularly thinking about our kids. Are even adults who generally

592
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: have let's say society or situational based triggers. They've likely

593
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: not been encountering those triggers because they've been at home

594
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: where most folks may not experience those triggers that they

595
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: experience in the workplace or in school or just out

596
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: in society in general. So we've not had to practice

597
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: our coping mechanisms around them, and so we might feel

598
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: ill equipped or be compensate right in the face of

599
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: those and so again that's another regrieving or retrigger. I

600
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: think other pieces around heightened anxiety, we're already seeing some

601
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: impacts of social licensation isolation on increased suicidality. I think

602
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: that UM and many of the reports are indicating this

603
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: that the next wave of this pandemic is going to

604
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: be on the mental health front. It's already here. We

605
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: haven't even talked about the ways our kids are grieving,

606
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: in the ways that they are missed, in the sheer

607
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: amount of under the level of under resources right where

608
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: we are under resourced to help kids in general with

609
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: understanding the language and what grief looks like for them.

610
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: And so I think those are all things that we

611
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: will have to grapple with sooner rather than later, because

612
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: we've not we have been so inundated with just being

613
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: safe that we haven't even had an opportunity to be well,

614
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: And so I think that we have we're going to

615
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: have to re emerge that what does it look like

616
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: to do more than survive? Because that's where we have been.

617
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: We have been in survival mode right as people trying

618
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: to stay safe from COVID as black and brown people

619
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: in this country. What happens when we have to go

620
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: back to day to day functioning, whatever that looks like,

621
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: and we're expected to really produce them to thrive and

622
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: we don't have the coping skills to do so we

623
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: don't even know what that looks like anymore. Those are

624
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: the things that I'm concerned about from a very real,

625
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: tangible perspective. Yeah. Absolutely, so. Are there any additional resources

626
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: you share LASS with us last time, But are there

627
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: any new resources or things that you think people might

628
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: want to check out given what we talked about today?

629
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm um. And so I think that being connected

630
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: with NAMI, so the National Alliance Come Mental Illness, they

631
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: have and can access resource groups such as support groups

632
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: all over the country. The Association for Death Education Counselors

633
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: that for clinicians, but to be trained in in doing

634
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: some grief work as well as to identify UH clinicians

635
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: who are trained in grief work. So UM, I also

636
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: have a book in a in a training series coming

637
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: out called The Gift of Grief UM. The workbook actually

638
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: is free and available already. The book will be out

639
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: shortly UM where we will we will be doing some

640
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: of the work around training clinicians as well as parents

641
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: and educators on recognizing grief in the workplace, in the

642
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: school environment, in in clinical practice. And so I think

643
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: one of the best things that we can do is

644
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: to be able from a personal perspective to really do

645
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: the work UM, to identify what your lost history is,

646
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: what you're coping strategy, is your trauma history, so that

647
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: you can get the support that you need UM. And

648
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: from a clinical perspective, we have to build a capacity.

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00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: For a very long time, clinicians have been saying, I

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00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: don't do grief work, and my response has always been,

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00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: if you work with people, you do grief work. That

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00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: is being called to roost now UM, and we are

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00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: scrambling to get educated and to get trained. Now is

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00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: the time to do that UM. And so looking at

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00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: some of these programs UM, either through universities or UM.

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00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: Some of the formal other programs in grief I think

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00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: are going to be important for us to access great

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00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: and of course we will include all of those resources

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00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: in our show notes. And where can we find you?

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00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: Dr Robinson? What are your social media handles as well

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00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: as your website? Absolutely so, I am Dr a Jetta

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00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 1: on Facebook, dcor a Jetta Robinson Instagram and missa Jetta

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00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter and a Jetta Robinson dot com is my

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00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: website perfect. Thank you so much for joining us again

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00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: and for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I appreciate it.

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00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this work and for

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00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: having music guest. I'm so glad Dr Robinson was able

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00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: to join us again this week. Don't forget to visit

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00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot Com

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00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: slash Session one sixty two to learn more about her art,

671
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: to grab a copy of her workbook, and please share

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00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: your takeaways with us on social media using the hashtag

673
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: tb G in session. If you're looking for a therapist

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00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: in your area, be sure to check out our therapist

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00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.

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00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging, into this topic

677
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: and connect with some other sisters in your area. Come

678
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: on over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective

679
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: where we take a deeper dive into the topics from

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00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: the podcast and just about everything else. You can join

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00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: us at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y

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00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: c C. Thank you all so much for joining me

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00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continue in this

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Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,