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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: I would want her to walk away feeling that her

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Speaker 2: family is complete, no matter whether there's a man or

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Speaker 2: a partner in the house or not. And I would

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Speaker 2: want her to question any beliefs that she has that

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Speaker 2: make her feel that being a single mother is somehow

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Speaker 2: inherently wrong.

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Speaker 3: Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well?

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Speaker 4: We do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard, and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just be.

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Speaker 1: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow

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Speaker 1: button and leave us a quick five star review.

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Speaker 3: Lady.

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Speaker 1: We are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 1: If you want more speaking engagements, collaborations or visibility for

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Speaker 1: your brand, I gotta tell you the truth. This is

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Speaker 1: Terry Lomax and I've been a public speaker for over

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Speaker 1: twelve years. I've lended national media, a TED Talk, in

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Speaker 1: six figure collaborations without a publicist or a big social

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Speaker 1: media following. And here's what most people don't hear. You

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Speaker 1: don't need a publicist or a massive audience to get booked.

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Speaker 1: Most people are waiting to feel established first, and that

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Speaker 1: waiting is costing them visibility. How many times have you

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Speaker 1: looked up and seeing people with less experience getting opportunities

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Speaker 1: you were fully qualified for.

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Speaker 4: Here's the truth.

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Speaker 1: Opportunities don't go to the most qualified. They go to

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Speaker 1: the people who can clearly communicate their value. Once I

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Speaker 1: learned how to organize my story and position my expertise

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Speaker 1: using a framework, everything changed. If you want my exact

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Speaker 1: pitch emails, word for word, my winning subject lines, and

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Speaker 1: the Saucy Solutions framework, visit get that pitch dot com

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Speaker 1: for a limited time use code her space for a

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Speaker 1: special listener discount. If this is your year to stop

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Speaker 1: hiding and start getting booked, I'll see you inside. Visit

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Speaker 1: get that pitch dot com or click the link in

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Speaker 1: our show notes. Lady, Today, we have a very special guest.

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Speaker 1: We're so excited to chat with her. She's a cultural critic, writer,

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Speaker 1: and so much more. Jamie La Lemieux is a leading

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Speaker 1: feminist thinker, social influencer, and millennial media darling. Lemieux has

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Speaker 1: written for our host of platforms, including The Los Angeles Times,

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Speaker 1: The Nation, Essence, Playboy, Vanity Fair, The Guardian, The Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: and the list goes on. She was prominently featured in

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Speaker 1: Lifetime's docuseries Surviving R Kelly and Surviving R Kelly Too,

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Speaker 1: The Reckoning. She also appeared in A and E's Secrets

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Speaker 1: of Playboy. Currently, she writes a weekly advice column for

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Speaker 1: Slate's Care and Feeding Parenting section, and today we are

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Speaker 1: talking about her new book, Black Single Mother, Real Life

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Speaker 1: Tales of Longing and Belonging. There is so much more

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Speaker 1: that we can say about Jimmy Leve, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: let you hear it from her words. Jimmy Low, welcome

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Speaker 1: to cultivating her space. Thank you for having me, you

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Speaker 1: so welcome.

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Speaker 3: We are so excited for this conversation and know that

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Speaker 3: so many in our community are going to benefit from

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Speaker 3: this conversation. And so we're gonna start with our quote

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Speaker 3: of the day. Now, these words, Jamila will sound very

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Speaker 3: familiar to you because this quote come from the introduction

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Speaker 3: of your book. Our people and really the whole world

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Speaker 3: need a complete overhaul of their ideas about black single motherhood.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to say that quote one more time.

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Speaker 3: One because I messed it up, and two because we

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Speaker 3: want to make sure that people in the back hurt it.

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Speaker 3: Our people and really the whole world need a complete

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Speaker 3: overhaul of their ideas about black single motherhood. When you

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Speaker 3: hear your words and you think about your book and

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Speaker 3: you think about this conversation that we're going to have today,

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Speaker 3: what comes up for you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm very proud of this book. You know

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Speaker 2: that sentence is essentially my thesis. That's, you know, the

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Speaker 2: premise that people need to rethink what they think of

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Speaker 2: when they think of black single motherhood. And this vite

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Speaker 2: excuse me, this book is inviting them to do that.

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Speaker 1: Amazing well to me. Before we tt dive in, we

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Speaker 1: want to kind of ground the conversation. If someone is

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Speaker 1: currently listening, Let's say it's a black woman. Let's say

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Speaker 1: she's a single mom. She's listening right now, what's something

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Speaker 1: you would want her to walk away feeling understanding or

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Speaker 1: questioning after this episode.

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Speaker 2: I would want her to walk away feeling that her

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Speaker 2: family is complete, no matter whether there's a man or

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Speaker 2: a partner in the house or not. And I would

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Speaker 2: want her to question any belief that she has that

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Speaker 2: make her feel that being a single mother is somehow

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Speaker 2: inherently wrong.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, I love that. I appreciate you stating that very clearly,

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Speaker 3: very plainly, because I know that so many women can

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Speaker 3: benefit from hearing that. And so, lady, as you're listening,

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Speaker 3: I hope that you first pause, and rewind and and

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Speaker 3: listen to that statement again and let it be an

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Speaker 3: affirmation for you.

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Speaker 4: And so, Jimmy, let's jump in.

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Speaker 3: So tell us your origin story for those who aren't

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Speaker 3: familiar with you, tell us how did you get to

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Speaker 3: where you are now and releasing this book, Black Single Mother.

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Speaker 4: I'm originally from Chicago.

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Speaker 2: I am the child of former activist parents who had

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Speaker 2: a long, complicated relationship, but a pretty good co parenting relationship.

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Speaker 2: I have a single mother, but my father was very

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Speaker 2: present in my life and very influential on my childhood,

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Speaker 2: despite not you know, physically being in the home every day.

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Speaker 2: I went to Howard and I started a blog my

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Speaker 2: senior year.

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Speaker 4: Just kind of on a whim.

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Speaker 2: And people had told me, you know, for years, that

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Speaker 2: I should consider writing professionally, and that I had majored

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Speaker 2: in the wrong thing.

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Speaker 4: I should have majored in writing, and I didn't believe that.

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Speaker 2: But toward the end of my time in college, I

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Speaker 2: started blogging and it just kind of took on a

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Speaker 2: life of its own, and I realized that writing was

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Speaker 2: something that I wanted to do professionally. I moved to

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Speaker 2: New York shortly after I graduated. I pursued some work

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Speaker 2: in education for a while, and I kept getting fired

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Speaker 2: from my jobs because I would spend my day blogging

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Speaker 2: and writing and trying to promote my work on MySpace

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Speaker 2: and Twitter. And finally, in around twenty eleven, I decided

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Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to take any other jobs.

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Speaker 4: I was going to find something in media.

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Speaker 2: Quite serendipitously, I was invited to come work for Abnu

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Speaker 2: magazine by Kiera Nameo, who's the editor of this book.

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Speaker 2: She was planning to relaunch Ebane's website, and she hired

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Speaker 2: two editors and I was.

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Speaker 4: One of them.

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Speaker 2: And from there, you know, I had a full time

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Speaker 2: job in media, and I hired a lot of writers

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Speaker 2: who became big name folks. Works with Mark Lamont Hill

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Speaker 2: and Dreamhampton and Michael Denzel Smith and Michael Arsenal and

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Speaker 2: Damon Young and Loveyajie, you know, for some of them

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Speaker 2: early in their careers. And I became a single mom

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Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen. I also have a wonderful co parenting

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Speaker 2: relationship with my daughter's father, even though we were off

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Speaker 2: to a rocky, complicated start as parents.

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Speaker 4: And I've held a few jobs in media.

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Speaker 2: I've done some consulting, but I've been working as a

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Speaker 2: freelance writer and editor for the past six years or so.

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Speaker 4: And I started this book three years ago.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to write a book for many years, but

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Speaker 2: I couldn't quite figure out what to write about. And

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Speaker 2: my literary agent, Tanya, had suggested writing about black single motherhood,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't want to do that. I felt that

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Speaker 2: it would somehow trap me in that space. And I'm

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Speaker 2: leaving a lot out. I was black Twitter famous. I've

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Speaker 2: done a lot of television commentary and documentaries and kind

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Speaker 2: of interesting stuff along my journey. But when I finally

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Speaker 2: during you know, I guess the end of the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: Started realizing that I did need to write about black

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Speaker 2: single motherhood, that this was a book that did not exist.

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Speaker 2: This was a book I would have, you know, really

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Speaker 2: appreciated as a younger mother. I set out to write it,

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Speaker 2: and I've been on this journey since twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: It took about three years to get.

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Speaker 2: It done, and there's a lot of moving pieces with

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Speaker 2: a book, but it's finally, you know, making its debut

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Speaker 2: in the world very soon.

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Speaker 1: Well, the book is amazing. It really is the perfect

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Speaker 1: book to sit on the couch and like cozy up

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Speaker 1: with your favorite drink or snack and read it. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was just like a girlfriend talking

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Speaker 1: to you, Like the way you write so conversationally.

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Speaker 4: It was amazing.

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Speaker 1: And so we want to hear about why you wrote

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Speaker 1: the book, but I want to also talk about one

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Speaker 1: specific instance that was just so like it was very

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Speaker 1: eye opening, and it was a moment where you talked

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Speaker 1: about realizing that your mother was a single mom and

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Speaker 1: then becoming one yourself, and you described this haunting question

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Speaker 1: of like why is it just us?

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Speaker 4: Like what's wrong with us?

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Speaker 1: And I love to know what did that question teach

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Speaker 1: you about worthiness and belonging.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean there were times that I wonder

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Speaker 2: was my worth? Was my mother worthy? You know, of

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Speaker 2: romantic love? Did she belong? You know, what did it

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Speaker 2: mean that she didn't belong to a man? And later

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Speaker 2: what did it mean for me? You know, to be

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Speaker 2: under similar circumstances parenting a child as a single person.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it was a year's long process of unlearning.

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Speaker 2: You know, so much of what I've been taught about

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Speaker 2: black single motherhood through popular culture and the virtual absence

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Speaker 2: of black single moms and and affirmative positive positions in

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Speaker 2: popular culture to you know, the words of politicians and

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Speaker 2: preachers and rappers, you know about baby mamas and how

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Speaker 2: low down and trifling we were supposed to be. So

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Speaker 2: I have to say, it's honestly just like I've been

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Speaker 2: a single mother since my mother was Excuse me, I've

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Speaker 2: been a single mother since my daughter was born, almost

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Speaker 2: thirteen years ago, and I always felt like I needed

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Speaker 2: to represent single motherhood well in public and make people

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Speaker 2: know that we can do anything, we can have anything,

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Speaker 2: we can be anything.

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Speaker 4: And I believe that.

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Speaker 2: And I felt that, but I still, you know, until

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Speaker 2: about five years ago, felt something was wrong, you know,

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Speaker 2: with my household, that something was missing. So I am,

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Speaker 2: you know, on this journey myself a feeling like you know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't fail.

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Speaker 4: I didn't.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're not marked and complete, we are whole,

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Speaker 2: we are sufficient, And you know, I'm glad I learned

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Speaker 2: this lesson.

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Speaker 4: When I did, I whish i'd learned it sooner.

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Speaker 2: And it certainly taught me a new appreciation for my

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Speaker 2: own mother and a new respect for her.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that and naming that feeling that

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Speaker 3: a lot of black single mothers feel that there is

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Speaker 3: something there's something wrong with them for this particular role.

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Speaker 4: And we know that.

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Speaker 3: Those feelings come from external sources. How we have been

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Speaker 3: shaped and socialized And can you tell us I know

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Speaker 3: you break it down in your book, but can you

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Speaker 3: tell us a little bit more about what are the

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Speaker 3: historical roots of where these negative stereotypes and imaging and

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Speaker 3: socialization come from around black single mothers.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important to note that black single

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Speaker 2: mothers have been a staple and an important figure in

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Speaker 2: this country since the plantation. Right, Like, there were not

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Speaker 2: many married enslaved women, you know, and even those women

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Speaker 2: who were in marriages or in some sort of committed

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Speaker 2: relationship to another. Enslaved person didn't have autonomy over their

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Speaker 2: bodies and their relationships, so they could easily become child

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Speaker 2: mothers to children outside of those marriages or those relationships, right,

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Speaker 2: And so there's this anti black woman sentiment that's just pervasive.

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Speaker 2: There's this there's patriarchy which teaches us that women who

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Speaker 2: are not partner with a man are somehow deficient or broken, right,

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Speaker 2: regardless of her race. But then there's in particular for

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Speaker 2: black women, the Moyahan Report of nineteen sixty five and

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Speaker 2: the Moyahan Report it was called the Negro Family, a

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Speaker 2: Case for Natural Action, and it was prepared by Daniel

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Speaker 2: Patrick Moyahan, who was a Senator and social sciences, and

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Speaker 2: he argued that while the government certainly could provide intervention

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Speaker 2: and support to help black people advance in society, that

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Speaker 2: ultimately we would continue to struggle, we would not be

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Speaker 2: fully functional until we addressed the matriarchal structure of the

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Speaker 2: black family. He describes black women as domineering and our

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Speaker 2: family structures as pathological and inherently broken. He accused us

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Speaker 2: of emasculating our men and preventing them from effectively leading.

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Speaker 2: And his prescription for our community was for black men

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Speaker 2: to enter the military and for black men to be

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Speaker 2: heads of households and not black women. And at that time,

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Speaker 2: black women only made up about twenty five percent of

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Speaker 2: heads of households right with children. Households with children only

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Speaker 2: about twenty five percent of Black families were single mother

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Speaker 2: led and that number is much higher today. But that

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Speaker 2: attitude that something is inherently wrong with black women for

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Speaker 2: remaining with their children when a relationship has ended, has,

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Speaker 2: you know, gone.

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Speaker 4: On for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: And there were black leaders such as Winnie Young and

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Speaker 2: doctor Martin Luther King Junior who endorsed the Moyhan Report

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Speaker 2: and told people, hey, this is good, this makes sense.

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Speaker 4: We need to address these issues. That is so wild.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate you sharing and appreciate your knowledge, and this

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Speaker 1: is a very important conversation. And at the same time, Jamila,

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Speaker 1: we also we were taking a look at your Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and so we think it's a good time right now

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Speaker 1: to shift up the energy of this conversation. So because

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Speaker 1: she's like, oh, let's cover, because we recognize, appreciate, and

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Speaker 1: celebrate the multifaceted woman, and we believe that it's okay

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Speaker 1: to be boogie, classy and ratchet. You can still be

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Speaker 1: elegant and dance to strip club music if you so choose.

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Speaker 1: We want to invite you to the ou blatchet segment.

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Speaker 1: Do you take on the challenge?

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Speaker 4: I do?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So now that you've agree you, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you what to expect. So we have three special

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Speaker 1: questions for you. We have three sentence completions, and then

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Speaker 1: we have some photos pulled up from.

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Speaker 4: Your Instagram, and what we want you to.

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Speaker 1: Do is choose a number out of one in three

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Speaker 1: and we'll show you that photo, and we want you

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Speaker 1: to describe the photo for folks that are only tuning

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Speaker 1: into the audio, and give us some context about the photo.

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Speaker 4: That we wouldn't know just by looking at it.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to bange you into this segment. And

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Speaker 1: the first question here is what's the best piece of

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Speaker 1: wisdom or advice you've ever received.

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Speaker 2: I don't know who said this to me first, but

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Speaker 2: I think a big important realization to me was that

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Speaker 2: adults are former children, you know, like so when we

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Speaker 2: think about you know, child free adults giving parenting advice,

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Speaker 2: for example, and people get so offended by that. It's like,

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Speaker 2: these people were children at some point. Everybody used to

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Speaker 2: be a child. So like when you hear people talk

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Speaker 2: about not liking children, not wanting them around, it's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you can't. This is the one experience we all have

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Speaker 2: in common, no matter who you are, where you came from,

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Speaker 2: at one point, you were a child. And so honoring

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Speaker 2: the former child and all of us is important. But

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Speaker 2: also having that respect I think for people's experiences as

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Speaker 2: former children.

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Speaker 1: That is so good. People don't talk about that enough.

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Speaker 1: That's really good. Thank you for sharing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I love that.

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Speaker 3: Now that was that was some beautiful wisdom. This next

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Speaker 3: question deviates from that totally. Okay, So this next question,

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Speaker 3: when you're at home having some downtime, or maybe you're

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Speaker 3: out and about and your favorite rap song comes on,

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Speaker 3: or maybe it's not a rap song, your favorite song

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Speaker 3: in general comes on, are you going to talk?

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Speaker 4: Or two step? Oh my god?

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Speaker 2: It depends on the party, It depends on the situation.

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Speaker 2: In my heart, I'm more of a squirker, but in

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Speaker 2: reality I'm more of a two stepper. But I will

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Speaker 2: say this, I think part of that is because I

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Speaker 2: live in la and people here don't dance, so if

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Speaker 2: I were to be sparking in the middle of a function,

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Speaker 2: it might be weird, you know. So I can get

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Speaker 2: away with doing a little two step, but yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: more of a two stepper. But if you give me

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Speaker 2: on vacation or if you get me out of town,

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Speaker 2: I might be a swarker.

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Speaker 4: All right, that is so true about La two.

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Speaker 1: I've definitely experienced that, Like why are everybody standing around?

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Speaker 4: Everybody standing around?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the next question is what's the sexiest item

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Speaker 1: you own?

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Speaker 2: Boom, There's a lot of them. One of them is

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Speaker 2: a collar. It's I award on Halloween, actually the fast

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Speaker 2: two years in a row, and it's like it's kind

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Speaker 2: of like an S and M type collar. And so

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Speaker 2: last year I award I was a Dominatrix and this

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Speaker 2: year award as Scary Spice from the Spice Girls. It

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Speaker 2: was the last minute, you know, in promptu costume. But

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Speaker 2: I think that's one of the sexiest things out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we love it, all right, and so now we're

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Speaker 3: going to move to the sentence completion. Okay, one question

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Speaker 3: or topic I wish people asked me about more often is.

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Speaker 4: Oh, healthy co parenting.

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Speaker 2: I do wish I got more questions about, like making

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Speaker 2: it work to you know, happily co parent with my

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Speaker 2: daughter's father and stepmother.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's a question.

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Speaker 2: I'll get more as the book is released and you know,

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Speaker 2: I start doing more interviews like this. But I do

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Speaker 2: wish that more people, you know, special, particularly people needing advice.

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Speaker 4: Whish that people ask me about that.

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Speaker 1: You are not going to believe this. The next sentence

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Speaker 1: completion is what I would tell people about healthy co

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Speaker 1: parenting is.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love that. Y'all are Aren't it okay?

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Speaker 2: What I would tell people about healthy co parenting is

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Speaker 2: it isn't always easy. They will get on your nerves sometimes,

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Speaker 2: and that's okay. Anybody is going to get on your

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Speaker 2: nerves at some point. But as long as you put

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Speaker 2: your child first and foremost, I think all parties will

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Speaker 2: ultimately benefit.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 3: That is. More people need to hear that. More people

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Speaker 3: need to really wrestle with that and engage with that.

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Speaker 3: Our final sentence completion, what I love most about myself is.

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Speaker 2: What I love most about myself is my wit.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm funny. I think I'm clever.

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Speaker 2: I take I crack myself up if nobody else is laughing,

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Speaker 2: Like half of what I post on social media is

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Speaker 2: me entertaining me.

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Speaker 4: That is so good. It's the best when you can

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Speaker 4: entertain yourself.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much. Okay, Okay, So we got

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Speaker 1: these photos pulled up, and we need you to choose

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Speaker 1: a number out of one in three. They are some

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Speaker 1: fly photos too. To me, Oh my goodness, they're cute.

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Speaker 1: You got's a cute fly. So choose a number out

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Speaker 1: of want in three and I'll share it with you

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Speaker 1: and then you can describe it and then give us

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Speaker 1: the context.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'll pick two.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay, you're gonna like this one. This is really cute.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear the story behind it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go ahead and share it with you.

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Speaker 1: Get ready, ready, and here we go.

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Speaker 4: Ooh I love this. Okay.

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Speaker 2: This was a couple of years ago. Wow, this almost

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Speaker 2: this is four and a half years ago. I'm in

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Speaker 2: a hotel lobby here in LA I was meeting a

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Speaker 2: friend for a drink and I think I was going

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Speaker 2: to an event maybe later.

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Speaker 4: Because I have on a wig.

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Speaker 2: I have on a purple wig I've got on like

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Speaker 2: a sexy bra and fishnets. I don't know if I

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Speaker 2: would have borne the wig on a date, because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: where was I going after this? But yeah, I absolutely

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Speaker 2: loved this picture of myself and it was one of

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Speaker 2: the It was a rare picture. I don't post myself

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Speaker 2: that often, you know, and so like, I think this

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Speaker 2: was the first time I posted myself in quite a while,

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Speaker 2: maybe after a period of not feeling super photogenic, because

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Speaker 2: this is twenty twenty one, so we're coming out of

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Speaker 2: the pandemic. So yeah, this was just me kind of

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Speaker 2: re emerging in the world.

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Speaker 4: It's cute. I love the wig.

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Speaker 1: If given it, the whole esthetic is yes at some point,

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Speaker 1: So thank.

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Speaker 4: You for flying along.

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Speaker 1: But that's Jimmy that we appreciate you, and we have

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Speaker 1: a lot more questions for you. But one of the

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Speaker 1: questions I out love to talk about is dating, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: as a single black mother, how has dating changed for

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Speaker 1: you over the years, especially in terms of what you

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Speaker 1: want and what you're no longer willing to tolerate.

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Speaker 2: You know? So I hit the ground running and started

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Speaker 2: back dating when my daughter was about nine or ten

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Speaker 2: months old. That's when I decided, Okay, I want to

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Speaker 2: you know, start slowly, but be back out there. And

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Speaker 2: I feel like for those first couple of years, I

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Speaker 2: tended to gravitate towards situationships, you know, situations that were

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Speaker 2: fun but not particularly serious. And I also had a

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Speaker 2: very bad habit of unleashing my entire life story on

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Speaker 2: a man on our first date, you know, because I

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Speaker 2: felt like I had to provide context for how I

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Speaker 2: became a single mother. I had to impress him. I

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Speaker 2: had to talk about my background. I had to talk

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Speaker 2: about my professional success. I had to talk about what

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Speaker 2: a great relationship I have with my daughter's father. You know.

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Speaker 2: I had to make sure they didn't just think of

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Speaker 2: me as some irresponsible, typical baby mama quote unquote. And

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Speaker 2: I realized that I was giving people way. I think

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Speaker 2: one day I just woke up. I was like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, have I been telling these niggas my whole

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Speaker 2: life story over our first drink?

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Speaker 4: You know, And they would just listen, and I'd be like, Oh,

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Speaker 4: he totally gets me. He likes me.

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Speaker 2: But I have been intentional about making time for dating,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I think I did a better job

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Speaker 2: when I moved to I moved from New York to

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Speaker 2: California six and a half years ago, and just the

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Speaker 2: kind of the irony of being like, Okay, I'm moving

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Speaker 2: to LA and now I'm ready to settle down when

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Speaker 2: LA is like the worst place for black women to date,

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Speaker 2: which I had no idea just how bad it is here.

440
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 4: But my experiences have been a mixed bag. I haven't dealt.

441
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: With any real abuse or manipulation or you know, the

442
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: mistreatment that I've encountered has been just a lack of kindness,

443
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: you know, ghosting, basically being noncommittal. But you know, some

444
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: good experiences, some bad experiences.

445
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 4: But I will just say that things are.

446
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: Going really well right now, and I'll just leave it

447
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 2: at that to hear yes.

448
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 3: And we appreciate you sharing that experience. And I think

449
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 3: that there are a lot of women, particularly black single mothers,

450
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 3: who can relate to your experience and recognizing that how

451
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 3: you dated in your twenties, how you dated before you

452
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: became a mom, how you may have dated pre pandemic. Yeah,

453
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: all of that looks different now, and trying to navigate

454
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 3: that can be extremely difficult. But we have encountered an

455
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 3: online platform called Educated, and it's centered on sex education

456
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: and sexual health for adults, and part of it actually

457
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 3: fits on dating, and as I am trying to date

458
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: in the LA area, I have found that course to

459
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: be incredibly helpful.

460
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and I love it too because it covers everything

461
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: from sex after menopause to navigating endometriosis, to things like

462
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: open relationships, kink. We were talking about the Little college earlier,

463
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, besides techniques and even sex positive parenting, which

464
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: is one of my faves. Even though I only have

465
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 1: a four year old. I'm like, at some point we're

466
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: gonna be having those conversations, right. And one thing I

467
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: really love too is that they give you a quick

468
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: five minute quiz that gives you a personalized learning path,

469
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: so it'll recommend a personalized roadmap to sexual happiness for you,

470
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: so you don't have to be overwhelmed by all the

471
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: content they offer, so you're not guessing where to start.

472
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: So that's what I love about it. I love that

473
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: and to check.

474
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 3: Them out, Yes, and so I'm glad you said that.

475
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: So for those who are interested, you can head to

476
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 3: educated dot com or just click the link in our

477
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 3: show notes to start your pleasure journey.

478
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 4: Today.

479
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: So one of the things I wanted to ask you about, Jamila,

480
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: is this theme of longing in your childhood, like longing

481
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: for partnership, for a sense of family structure. I think

482
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: Raven was one of your friends that you were comparing

483
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: yourself to. She had like a fancy mom and they

484
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: had all these things going on. You were like, what's

485
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: going wait, I see a difference between this a discrepancy here, right?

486
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: How has longing shaped the way you mother your daughter

487
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: with all the wisdom that you have and from your experiences.

488
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: I think at one time, like particularly when she was younger,

489
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 2: I tried to overcompensate for us not being an intact

490
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: family quote unquote by you know, providing for her materially

491
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: being you know, very permissive, but over the top birthday parties,

492
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: over the top Christmases. But I think that, you know,

493
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: as I've evolved as a parent, I've learned to kind

494
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: of shift into just dialing into addressing those issues like

495
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: where may she be feeling longing? You know, we've talked

496
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: about her, you know, having a great relationship with her stepmother,

497
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: but at times when she was younger, wishing that you know,

498
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: her dad and I could be together at the same time,

499
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: or expressing that she would never see us celebrate the

500
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: anniversary together.

501
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 4: Right, But I've just done my best.

502
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: To make sure she understood that her family was whole

503
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: and that she was surrounded by people who loved her,

504
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: and that everything that she has is sufficient and that

505
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: she is sufficient.

506
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: That is so helpful and okay, so for personal weaks,

507
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: this is just like girls talk about now for personal reasons.

508
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm navigating a separation now and I have a almost

509
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: five year old, so I'm gonna ask you some personal

510
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: question to me, okay, for advice. One of the things

511
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: my daughter often like says something similar to what your

512
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: daughter says, like I'm going to see you. I want

513
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: to be able to hang out with you together. And

514
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: so what did you tell her in the beginning? And

515
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: then also, okay, I have so many questions I'm gonna

516
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: ask about this step mom, and I'm like the co

517
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: parenting dynamic, but let's start with that. What do you

518
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: tell her when she asked, like I can we do

519
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: stuff together? Like why can't Daddy stay the night or

520
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, Like how do you have those conversations?

521
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: You know?

522
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: I explained to her and at the time when she

523
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: started asking those questions, we were, you know, we had

524
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 2: gotten to a place where we could go grab a

525
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: meal together or both be at her birthday party together.

526
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: So it wasn't that she never experienced us together, but

527
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't rare, and you know, she had

528
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: to come to understand it, like we're living our lives separately,

529
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: you know, and that's okay because we are united in

530
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: the cause of raising her, and so there are times

531
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: where it's appropriate for us to all be together, but

532
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, more often than that that's not the case,

533
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: and that's okay.

534
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: Sorry, my cat, you see that's so cute. I was like,

535
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: who's that back here? What's your cat's name? Candy Girl? Oh,

536
00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 4: look at Candy Girl.

537
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: And so, as you think about this co parenting dynamic

538
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: and you think about how it's evolved over time, what

539
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: is your hope for how the relationship continues to evolve?

540
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: Because I think about so, you said, your daughter is

541
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: almost thirteen now, right, and there are going to be

542
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: a lot of potential major life milestones that occur, and

543
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: so how do you envision you all continuing that healthy

544
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: co parenting dynamic as she continues to grow?

545
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: And move into adulthood.

546
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, us continuing to be collaborative

547
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: and communicative. You know, her father and I and stepmother

548
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: just have a really positive relationship. You know, her dad

549
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: had a party last weekend. I was there to support

550
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: my daughter, was there, his wife was there. You know,

551
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: I brought friends. I have an event, a work related

552
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: event this week. I'm bringing, you know, my daughter. My

553
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: daughter's father and his wife will be there, you know,

554
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: making sure they're familiar with anyone I'm saying who might

555
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: be entering my daughter's life, and just you know, being

556
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: respectful and acknowledging the labor that's been done thus far,

557
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 2: and so you know, realizing that if we may have

558
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: a disagreement or not see things eye to eye on

559
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: a parenting decision, knowing that this person is capable and

560
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: competent and committed and has been for the past thirteen years,

561
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: So we can have a disagreement without it being you know,

562
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: a reflection on who he is as a parent or

563
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: a person.

564
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: That is so beautiful. I know there are probably some

565
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: people listening like, oh, wish I was in that space

566
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: now with my baby daddy or you know, ex partner whatever.

567
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: So I want to know, like, what were some of

568
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: the non negotiables, because I know you said it was

569
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: a journey, like you didn't just end up there. They

570
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: want what were some of the non negotiables that you

571
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: all had to either agree on her implement as you

572
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: are building that connection, because it's multifaceted that you have

573
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: not just your ex but also his wife as well.

574
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: So I'm sure there were like different phases of the

575
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: journey where you were sort of using different tools, if.

576
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 4: That makes sense.

577
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole way through, I was always careful to

578
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: honor my comfort as well as his and my daughters,

579
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: and so my daughter, you know, my daughter's father got

580
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: married when she was four months old. I did not

581
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: meet her stepmother until she was three because I was

582
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: not prepared. You know, I was willing to deal with him.

583
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: I knew I had to deal with him. I knew

584
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: that because they were married, she was going to be

585
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: in my daughter's life. I just had to trust that

586
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: he would not put someone around her who did not

587
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: want the best for her and who wouldn't treat her well.

588
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: Excuse me, And you know, when I was ready to

589
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: be civil and to to you know, engage with her,

590
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: I did, and so we never had She and I

591
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: have never argued. We've never you know, there was never

592
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: any you know, messing this between us. I needed time,

593
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: so that was a factor. But even while I was

594
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: giving myself time to heal from the breakup and the marriage,

595
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: I you know, always gave him, you know, full reasonable

596
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: access to his daughter. You know, when she was an infant,

597
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: I was the primary parent, obviously because she was a baby,

598
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: but you know, after a few months, she was able

599
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: to go over there a couple times a week, and

600
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: then over time to spend two nights there a week,

601
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: and as the years went on, by the time she

602
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: was six or seven, we shifted to a fifty to

603
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: fifty schedule. We've never gone to court. You know, child

604
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: support was agreed upon between us. Yeah, like as long

605
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: as I was treaty with respect, which I felt like

606
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: I was, you know, as long as I could tell

607
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: my daughter was being treated well, you know, I think

608
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: that in certain ways, her dad, particularly when she was young,

609
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: allowed me, allowed me to lead about certain decisions regarding her,

610
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: like choosing the daycare center and the babysitter, and you know,

611
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: he respected my decisions, and yeah, I just you know,

612
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: there were people who were surprised at how much access

613
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: I gave him, and that you know, I gave her

614
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: a hyphenated name instead of just my name. And I'm

615
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: just like, no matter what transpire between us as a couple,

616
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: and this man might have hurt my feelings, but he

617
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: didn't abuse me or anyway, you know what I mean.

618
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: You know, he rejected me, which he had the right

619
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 4: to do.

620
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: But despite that, like he'd always shown up as somebody

621
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: who was interested in being a present, committed father, and

622
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: so I had to, you know, as far as I

623
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: had the ability to do so, facilitate that and support

624
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: that for the best of my child and for the

625
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: best of me, because like, part of the reason I've

626
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: been able to travel, you know, to have a career

627
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: to date, to have friends is because I have an

628
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: active co parent. I haven't had to be a twenty

629
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 2: four seven three sixty five mom.

630
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for pointing that out. And I appreciate the

631
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: level of self awareness and the emotional maturity that it

632
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: takes to show up in this way, right, and to

633
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 3: show up for not only yourself, like you pointed out,

634
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: but for your daughter and your co parent and so

635
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 3: but I acknowledge that your story is different from other

636
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: people's story, right, And what I appreciate about your book

637
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: is that you highlight the stories of other black single mothers.

638
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: So can you tell us about that process of choosing

639
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 3: who to include and what were some of the things

640
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: that came up as you were adding them into this book.

641
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked to twenty one other black single moms,

642
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: and I turned our conversations into essays. I know that

643
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: as a single mom, and even as a child of

644
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: a single mom who had an active father around, you know,

645
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: being a single mom who has an active co parent,

646
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: a very active co parent, because active is a spectrum,

647
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: you know, will a man will be described as active

648
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 2: and he sees his kids four days out the month,

649
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: you know, and pays child support, and people say he's

650
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: an active dad, right. But somebody who's like, truly active,

651
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: I'm very privileged in that regard, that is very often

652
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: not the case. You know that even in the best

653
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: case scenario where the dad is present, the dad pays support,

654
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: the mother's genuinely generally doing the vast majority of the

655
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 2: hands on parenting and the work of parenting. And it's

656
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: not just the cooking food and getting the kids to school.

657
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: It's the doctor's appointments, making the dentist appointment is you know,

658
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 2: knowing where the insurance card is. And so I wanted

659
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: to talk to a diverse, you know, group of other moms.

660
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 4: Some of them are my friends, some of.

661
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: Them are women who are my networks, some of them

662
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: are folks that I've just followed on social media for

663
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: a long time. The only thing that they all have

664
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: in common is being black and being single mothers. But

665
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to, you know, make sure I'm amplifying the

666
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 2: stories of moms who don't have co parents, you know,

667
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: who have multiple children by multiple men, who became mothers

668
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: as teenagers, you know, who've had to navigate challenges that

669
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 2: are often looks down upon when we.

670
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 4: Talk about motherhood.

671
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 2: And I want to show that what we all have

672
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: in common, besides being black and being you know, single

673
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: moms or at one point single mom is the endless

674
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: dedication and devotion that we have to our children.

675
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: That is so beautiful.

676
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: And this book is going to help so many people

677
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: to be a little Oh my goodness, I can't wait

678
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: for you to I'm sure you're going to post about

679
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: all the feedback that you get from women who are

680
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: dming you and emailing you about the you know, the

681
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: impact that it's had. But one thing I want to

682
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: go back to is you talked about rejection right, and

683
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: I want to just echo dom sentiments about you know

684
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: you doing you had to do some healing work right

685
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: for you to show up the way that you did

686
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: with your CoPant relationship is so admirable because it easy

687
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: to be bitter, right, especially when you get your feelings hurt.

688
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, hell no, I know you did.

689
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: I know you didn't do that, So kudos to you

690
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 4: for that.

691
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: And then I want to talk about rejection a little

692
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: bit because I know for me, like after being in

693
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: a twelve year relationship and then dating in my thirties,

694
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: the dating period that was very that my whole face,

695
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: that was very humbling, Like the ghosting.

696
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: Like who are you ghosting?

697
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: Like that was so humbling, messing with these yans and

698
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: like having them show. So I want to talk about rejection.

699
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: What do the girls need to know about rejection? Because

700
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: we don't talk about rejection enough, So what would you share?

701
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: We don't we need to accept their like rejection is

702
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: very rarely a reflection of who you are as a person,

703
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: and now you can show up. Like in my relationship

704
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: with my daughter's father, I made mistakes. I was mean,

705
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: I was difficult, I was domineering. So my rejection, you know,

706
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: for the most part, was a reject was in that situation,

707
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: a reflection of my behavior.

708
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 4: You know.

709
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: It was also a relationship I started when I was

710
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: twenty six that went on for eighteen months.

711
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:23,959
Speaker 4: Right.

712
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: But like when I think about the rejection I've endured,

713
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, post that season, and in terms of dating,

714
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: it hasn't necessarily been about me, you know, It's been

715
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: about a misalignment of values. It's been about connecting with

716
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: men who didn't really value serious relationships, who aren't looking

717
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: for serious relationships, who perhaps unbeknownst to me, didn't feel

718
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: like they could get in a serious relationship with a

719
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: single mom. But they didn't communicate that, you know, any

720
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: number of reasons. But so often, you know, the times

721
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: that I did get to talk to men about why

722
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: things didn't work out, it was, you know, the ones

723
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: who were upfront with me, you know, generally it was

724
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: about them, you know, their mental health, their capacity, you know,

725
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: what was going on in their lives, and so you know,

726
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: even if somebody rejects you because they don't like you

727
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: as a person, that doesn't mean that you're a bad person.

728
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean you're undesirable.

729
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, you just haven't found your person yet and

730
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: that's okay. And if you are actively dating, you are

731
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: most likely rejecting people too. And if you find that

732
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 2: you're accepting everyone throwing your way and only dealing with rejection,

733
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: then you know, you maybe need to consider your standard

734
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: because you shouldn't be accepting everyone who comes your way.

735
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: Everyone who asked you on a date is not your

736
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: next you know, boyfriend or boo. You need to you know, really,

737
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: if you're if I'm being honest with myself about the

738
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: times that I was rejected by men that you know,

739
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 2: we never got serious, but I was interested in them.

740
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 4: We weren't compatible.

741
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: There were so many good reasons that these men were

742
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: not a fit for me, but I wanted them to

743
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: be because they were desirable, or because they had a

744
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: great job, or because we had a lot of fun together.

745
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 4: Thank you for saying.

746
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: That in the way that you did and acknowledging that, yeah,

747
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: this rejection oftentimes is not truly about us, and that

748
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 3: even within that rejection, there are moments when we need

749
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 3: to take a step back and look at ourselves and

750
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: see what we might what lessons we might glean, what

751
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: steps we may take differently if we so choose. And

752
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: so as we think about what it really means to

753
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: be a black single mother, and we've already talked about

754
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 3: like the negative stereotypes that get placed on black women,

755
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 3: what are the things that are worth celebrating? What are

756
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: the things that are joys that are great about being

757
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: a mom, particularly a black mom.

758
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, a black mom is top tier.

759
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: You know. I just think that the relationship that we

760
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: have to children, which is, you know, in some ways

761
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: informed by the trauma of our experiences as a people

762
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: in this country. You know, I think that that trauma

763
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: has created a deep, you know, abiding love between us

764
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: that you know, under healthy circumstances is allowed to flourish.

765
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: And at times, unfortunately that love manifests as control and

766
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 2: you know, being very domineering, trying to keep your children

767
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: safe at all costs. But you know, when I think

768
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: about being a black single mom, I have to say,

769
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: like I remember one thing on like Twitter or something,

770
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: somebody was like, I feel like being a single mom

771
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: of one child is kind of a flex, you know.

772
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: And somebody was like, yeah, especially if it's a daughter,

773
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna lie.

774
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 4: Like there's something specifically.

775
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: About like being you know, just me and my daughter,

776
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: you know, that is so special and the bond between

777
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: us is just so powerful. And I think about how

778
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: that bond existed between me and my mom, and I didn't,

779
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: you know, I knew. I recognize it in some ways,

780
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: like I remember as a kid, and I talk about

781
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 2: this in the book, feeling like my mom loved me

782
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: more than other moms loved their kids, Like somehow we

783
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: were just locked in better than everybody else, you know.

784
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 2: And I can't help us still feel that way about

785
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: my daughter, you know. And I also know, like one

786
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 2: of the moms I talked to in the book, Tanya Fields,

787
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: has six children, and I'm sure her kids probably feel

788
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 2: the same way, you know, that their mom loves them

789
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: more than other moms, that they're more locked in. I

790
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: think there's just something about it being you and your

791
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: child or you and your children that is really you know,

792
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: can be really incredible. I think that also what complicates

793
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 2: life for single moms so often is economics, you know,

794
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: like we've been able to have a you know, middle class,

795
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: lower middle class lifestyle, right, we haven't had to worry

796
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: about the light's being cut off, we haven't had to

797
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: be without housing. You know, the children of black middle

798
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: class or of middle class single parents flourish, you know, oftentimes.

799
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that we need to think about

800
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: distributing resources so that single moms who are struggling economically

801
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: can have the breathing room and the space to comfortably parent.

802
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 4: That is so good.

803
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 1: You drop so many, so many gyms, just Mike, drop

804
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: right there. Thank you so much for that, Jimmy Lytt.

805
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: And I want to ask you what haven't we asked

806
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: you that you wanted to discuss before we close out,

807
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: Like I think.

808
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: We kind of got to it, because I really want

809
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: us to talk about you know, happy, healthy co parenting

810
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: and just how important it is to you know. I

811
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 2: urge mothers if your child's father is able and willing

812
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 2: and responsible and safe, because we have to be honest,

813
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: that isn't always the case, and we shouldn't be pressuring

814
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, victims of abuse to allow their abusers.

815
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 4: To have access to their children.

816
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: You know, but if you're axing, you you may have

817
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: had a contentious breakup, but if this person is a

818
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: solid father, has the capacity to be a solid father,

819
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: you know, figure out ways to more equitably divide the

820
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: labor of childbearing. You know, studies have shown that kids

821
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: raised in households where time and labor and economics are divided,

822
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: you know, closer to fifty to fifty, those kids have

823
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: the same outcomes as kids raised in two parent homes.

824
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: You know, but also a reminders of everyone that being

825
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: simply being from a two parent home is not an

826
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: indicator of anything. Some of the worst men I've ever

827
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: encountered had a dad in the household. You know, if

828
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: the dad is in the household mistreating mom, you know,

829
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: not engaging effectively with the children, then you know, it

830
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 2: be better off. Everyone would be better off if he

831
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: wasn't there facts.

832
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that, and thank you for sharing

833
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: all that you have shared with us today, and so

834
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: we know that our audience is going to want to

835
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 3: know where they can connect with you, where they can

836
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: buy your book, and so share with us those details, please.

837
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me on social media, particularly threads,

838
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: Instagram and soon TikTok At Jamiela jam I l A.

839
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 4: H Lemieux L E M I e u X.

840
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: My website is Jamila Lemieux dot com. There's information about

841
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: my book there, and I will be posting stops on

842
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: my book tour to both my social media and my

843
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: website as we announce them. And yeah, the book is

844
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 2: available at all the major book retailers, but also from

845
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: small independent bookstores such as The Reparations Club in La

846
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: Kindred Spirits and in Houston.

847
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: Cafe con Lee Bros.

848
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 2: And Brooklyn, which sells through bookshop dot org, Uncle Bobby's

849
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, Call and Response Books in Chicago, a host

850
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: of small independent booksellers. Most of them will ship you

851
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: the book so you don't have to live in those communities.

852
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: You can order from them online. Thank you so much, Jamila,

853
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: Thank you.

854
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 3: It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

855
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

856
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: in contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please

857
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 3: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

858
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I N I q

859
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 3: U E B R O U ss ar D dot

860
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 3: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I look

861
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 3: forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning into Cultivating

862
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: her Space. Remember that while this podcast is all about healing, empowerment,

863
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: and resilience, it's not a substitute for therapy. If you

864
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: or someone you know need support, check out resources like

865
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: Therapy for Black Girls for Psychology Today. If you love

866
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: today's episode, do us a favor and share it with

867
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 3: a friend who needs some inspiration or leave us a

868
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: quick five star review. Your support means the world to

869
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 3: us and helps keep this space thriving.

870
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me. I release

871
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: the old with gratitude and prepare for the new with intention.

872
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: Chep Thriving Lady and tune in next Friday for more

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00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: inspiration from Cultivating her Space. In the meantime, be sure

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Speaker 1: to connect with us on Instagram at her Space Podcast