WEBVTT - The Cycle: Players We Hate Ranking in 2025 | Polarizing Targets and Draft Debates (Ep. 934) 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:09.240 Hello, everybody, Welcome into the cycle. I am Ryan warmly joined. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.240 I would say as always, but it's been actually a 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.320 minute since we've done a show together, but joined today 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.080 certainly and always going forward by Mike maher mayor how 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:18.000 you doing, Buddy. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.079 I'm doing all right. It's great to have you back. 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.440 We haven't done a show this offseason or really since, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.640 like I want to say, July, since you like kind 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.160 of abandoned me for football. Yeah, I'm doing that right, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:32.600 and you know, happy to do the show. Happy to 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.159 get the dynamic duo, the Gruesome twosome back together. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.760 Hopefully people who hear you calls the Gruesome twosom have 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:47.560 seen it's always sunny in Philadelphia and understand the reference. Yeah, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.400 I believe this is my first time doing the cycle 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.760 on video, which is very exciting that we're doing that 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.360 this year. Obviously, I was not here last week because, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.080 as you pointed out to everybody violating HIPPA, I think 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.880 I had surgery last week, so ironically it was the 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.720 same shoulder surgery you had at the end of December. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.600 I had here about six or seven weeks later. I'm 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.240 not in my sling now. It is my first time 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.280 sitting at my computer, not in my sling. You will 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.440 be going back on after the show, but I wanted 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.640 to try and do a show here without it and 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.800 look and hopefully sound somewhat normal. It's been a very 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.760 difficult week and a half since the surgery, as I 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.160 know you can relate to, because you were just in 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.440 that situation sleeping, very difficult and along those lines, I've 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.840 paid very little attention to baseball in the last you know, 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.200 we ca and half here since spring training really got underway, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.679 because I've been focused on, you know, early stages of 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.400 recovery and everything else. So one of the things we're 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.320 going to jump into here is you kind of catching 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:45.920 me up on what I might have missed here in 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.960 the early stages of spring training. How was your shoulder 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.600 surgery recovering? Though I know there were some comments last 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.559 week about you maybe being a little disrespectful a little 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.480 rude to me about mine, I'm gonna turn the other 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.880 cheek and actually be nice and respect full and ask 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:02.760 you how you're doing, My dear friend. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.440 I thought for sure you were teeming me up for 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:06.600 an apology there. Yeah, there were there were a few comments, 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.800 and thank you to everyone who chimed in with the comments, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.079 except for you know, a couple of people had some 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.240 some words for me. They didn't realize I was I 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.320 was joking about, you know, your recovery and coming back 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.440 to the show was one joking, especially as someone who 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.800 went through the same surgery. It's funny. I was gonna 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.760 I was going to surprise you by wearing my sling, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:27.640 So it would have been pretty ironic that if I 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.359 wore mine and you did not wear yours, that. 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.120 Would show how I'm just like you know, Wolverine out 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.520 here in my healing factor. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:34.840 Right. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.120 If if anybody notices me grimacing at all during the 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.760 show now that we're on video, it's because I'm like 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.400 trying to move my arm a little bit to type 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.840 or something. I'm having to use a left handed mouse 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:52.320 these days, which is extremely struggle for me. I'm very 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.040 much right handed. So well, we'll get through the best 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:56.720 we can. I didn't want to miss too many episodes here. 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.240 I was really excited to do some of these preseason shows. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.280 We talked about maybe bringing Cycle back at opening day, 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.360 because that's what when we started the show last year 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.080 for our first season. But I think you and I 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.600 really wanted to touch base and meet just once a 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.760 week here kind of in these these you know, month 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.639 and a half or so between when pitchers and catchers 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.800 report and when we actually get to opening day and 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.440 just kind of make sure we're on top of everything 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.840 and bringing the people hopefully what they want, which is uh, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.320 which is the cycle. So we'll dive right in. Today's episode, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.600 which you teased last week, is going to be about 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.080 players that we hate ranking. These are the guys that 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.880 UH for you and me and and also for all 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.560 the rankers. You know, we looked a little bit at 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.000 kind of the standard deviation of some of these guys' ranks, 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.240 which you can find in our expert consensus rankings at 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.640 fantasypros dot com. But it's guys that you and I 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.640 have really found that we struggled to rank and really 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.160 decide like how we feel about them. This year, we 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:47.840 are going to include some names that you guys throughout 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.400 in the comments, so please continue to do that. We 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.200 really appreciate it, both in terms of giving us, you know, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:54.800 names that you guys want to hear us talk about, 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.800 and also just for being a part of the show 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.080 and a part of that conversation We're really excited to 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.040 to have everybody kind of hopping into the comments now 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:03.800 that we are on YouTube, so please continue to do that. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.120 We definitely appreciate it, and I feel free to throw us, 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.800 you know, replies and comments on social media as well, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.040 beyond YouTube, but YouTube as we're most likely to see it. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:13.920 So we're going to jump into that. We have three 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.680 players each that we wanted to talk about. We'll throw 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:17.800 us monerol mentions out there, and like I said, a 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.200 couple of players that you guys suggested in the comments. 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.200 But before we get into those players that we hate ranking, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.719 I do want to ask you to please catch me 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.200 up Mayor on some of the big news and notes 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.599 from the last couple of weeks that I have not 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.920 been paying attention to because I've been otherwise preoccupied. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.000 Yea, Luckily there hasn't been too much crazy news. We 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.960 had a pretty normal ish off season for baseball. It 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.200 wasn't like in the last year or two, where you know, 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.039 we got to this point of the year and some 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.000 really big names remained unsigned. The last big name to sign, 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:51.560 or one of the last big names to sign, was 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.120 Alex Bregman went to my Red Sox which you know, 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.359 the Red Sox finally spending some money. I'm pretty excited 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.720 about that as a Red Sox fan, but also from 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.359 a fan, I see a baseball perspective because maybe not 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.440 the biggest jump going from like the Astros Park to 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.760 Fenway Park. You know, there's still kind of that like 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.240 favorable left field for him, but also he's going to 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.560 be eligible second base, it sounds like, which is interesting 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.400 for fantasy. So Alex Bragman, third base, second base eligible. 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:17.560 I also wouldn't be surprised at some point if he 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.760 played a little shortstop, assuming you know Trevor's story and 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.960 that inevitably goes on the injured list. Not wishing for injuries, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.800 but you know, just kind of his history there, that's 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.880 a possibility. So if you can get that kind of 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:33.920 versatility from Alex Bregman, we're fully in baseball players being 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.120 in the best shape of their lives and also adding 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.320 new pitches. Some of the more exciting ones were if 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.760 Paul Skins wasn't already good enough, he's apparently adding a 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.200 two seamer and tinkering with a cutter. So that's pretty 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.360 terrifying for opposing batters because Paul Skins is already really 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.320 good despite leaning on that fastball logan, Gilbert is working 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.600 on what appears to be a splinker, which is a 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.080 fun hybrid sinker splitter pitch. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.560 Can I ask you quickly on Skeens, where are you 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.440 drafting him this year? Like not amongst pictures, but like 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.039 where in the first or second round or wherever it 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.480 is that you have him, because he's That's the way 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.799 we're talking about today because obviously everybody really likes Skeens. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.640 There's not much to debate. But I'm always, I always 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.799 really struggle every year with deciding when I want to 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.239 break the seal of going from you know, the tops, 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.040 always a handful of batters to kind of getting into 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.400 that first picture. Where is Skins going for you? 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:26.960 For me, he's going mid to late first round. And 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.280 we talked about him last week as kind of if 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.120 you're doing that pocket AS's strategy. I kind of liked 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.640 one thing I said, you know, if you not that 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.880 I'm necessarily going to always do pocket ass this year, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.360 but if you kind of want to do it, one 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.560 interesting way is that if you can get if you're 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.839 like picking like eighth, ninth, tenth, you know, close to 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.839 the turn and skins fallows. You can potentially get Skeens 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:49.880 and then scooble on the way back and double dip. 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.839 The other thing I like doing is and we talked 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.280 about it a little bit last week. If you want 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.839 to do pocket ass is, get Skeens right there, you know, 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:02.200 like five, six, seven, eight, and then get another hitter 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.960 in the second round, and then that third round you'll 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.000 still have a decent tier of pictures, like a logan 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.280 Gilbert has fallen to the third round that Kelly mentioned 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.200 if you want to do pocket asis. But also I'm 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.200 fine just taking Skeens as my first pitcher and then 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.720 going hit or heavy and then dealing with picture the 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:18.360 rest of the way, especially because when you get to 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.360 kind of into that mid to late first round, Skeens 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.400 to me seems kind of more exciting than some of 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.560 the other names that are going around there, like you know, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.120 like especially when you get to like Frnana Tatis, Corbyn Carrol, 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.440 I feel like I would prefer Skeins over them. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:35.840 I was going to ask you where that line of 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.040 demarcation is, and that was exactly what I was going 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.640 to say. Is so in ECR currently if you look 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.880 at it at number nine is Mookie Betts after him, 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.640 Number ten is Frnando Tatists, eleven Corbin Carrol, twelve is 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.800 Francisco Ldor. I think after Bets. To me, it's like, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.480 actually a no brainer. It's like I am taking Skeens 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.800 if those first nine hitters are off the board. Regardless, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.880 there are some of those hitters that I would probably 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.640 take Skeens over as well, but I think it's a 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.200 no brainer kind of at like that tenth pick, maybe 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:05.880 of those names ahead of him, and I was quickly 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.880 reads it's wit Otani, Judge, Jose Ramirez, Ellie de la Cruz, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.320 Gunner Henderson wants so to Kyle Tucker, Mookie Betts, the 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.320 names everybody would expect. Obviously, how many of those names 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:15.800 you think you would take Skins over? Because you said 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.560 mid first, so that sounds more like, you know, fifth 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.120 or six pick, or is it? Is it kind of 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:20.360 that back end of the first. 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.440 Yeah, I said mid first before I looked through the list, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.040 and then it's probably towards the later first. But it's 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:26.960 also like, if I'm going into a draft and I 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.480 really want Skeens, I'm probably going to take him, maybe 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.520 after Ellie in that like sixth spot. But I also 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.480 think you're completely justified taking that next tier of hitters 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.320 over him, which is kind of why I landed in 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.920 like that, like ten to eleven Tatis, Carol Spot. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.400 For me, I think the only four names I'm not 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.000 even considering Skeens over are wit Otani, Judge and Jose Ramirez. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:47.880 Everybody else, I would at least kind of think about 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.240 it if I'm on the clock and he's available. Yeah, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.319 now that we had, Like obviously everybody likes Skeens, I'm 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.920 just he's actually a little low in ECRs. He's seventeenth 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.280 overall and he's behind Thuring Schuble. But like for me, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.400 like Skeens is the first picture I'm taking, and he 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.000 is not getting to the second round if I'm picking 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.480 Lee in the first. Yeah, like I said, we don't 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:09.880 need to dive too deep into that. I just was 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:11.640 kind of curious because I think it's one of the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:15.040 more fascinating conversations every year in terms of like how 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:16.640 early do you want to pull the trigger on a picture? 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.800 And and for me, Skeens that guy this year, So 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.920 you said he's added some pitches. Very scary look, Gilbert 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:26.120 Tinkering with the splinker, the splinker Tinker. What else you got? 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.240 Flinker Tinker? I did, I didn't I mentioned it's it's 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.199 a little bit more of a normal year. There are 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.440 some still interesting free agents that have remained unsigned, despite 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.240 you know, spring training started already. Jatie Martinez. I was 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.120 for Dugo Spencer Turnbull. I thought it was a really 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:40.960 interesting name that I'm surprised no one has picked up 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.840 Jose I Glacias, Lance Lynn, Jose Cantana, and Kyle Gibson. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.600 So not like a you know, real all star lineup 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.960 of players, but an interesting, interesting list of players and 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.600 a quick pop quiz for you from from this list, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.440 and like not that this is my war on war. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.360 A lot of people know that I'm not a huge 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.679 war guy. But of the people on this list, who 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:05.560 do you think the highest war last year? Uh? 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:11.480 I don't know. Uh on a baseball reference or on fanographs, fangrass, 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:17.800 I'm gonna guess it's a hitter than was it for 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:18.280 du Goo. 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.400 No, it's actually Jose Iglaciers, probably because it's like overvaluing 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:22.959 his defense. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.040 I was good, Okay, I almost said a Glaciers for 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.679 the glove only, but I just couldn't get there. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.800 Yeah, and then who's the one who's projected to have 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.439 they're all free agents obviously, but who's projected right now 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.679 to have the highest war among this group? Uh? 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:42.600 Maybe Lynn or Gibson. Actually, I don't know. I don't 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:43.959 I don't even want to put a real guest to 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:44.480 who is it? 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:46.400 Well, you don't want to put a real guester, But 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.080 you almost had the right name because It'skyli Gibson. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.480 So okay, I should just stopped yourself. 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.319 Short of staying in the correct answer. And then the other 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.120 thing before we go too much further, is that you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.640 and I, much to your chagrin, tied the two star 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.640 pitcher competition from last Definitely. 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:04.000 We definitely did not. This is this is false. I 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.600 won't stand for this, these lies that you're saying tied. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.600 There's no way. I mean, it was horrible judgment of 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.280 who won each week at the end of the year, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:15.960 which I wasn't even a part of. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.319 So I don't know whose fault is that. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.160 Our bosses for saying I need to focus on football 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.080 when we get to August. I don't agree with this. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:27.960 I don't think we tied the two star picture competition. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.720 I'm want to go back and demand a recount. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.559 Okay, I'll recount it right now. We tied, we still tied. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.080 I believe I felt pretty strongly that in that final 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.760 week you gave yourself a win when when my I 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.840 think I must have been Kelly false. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:46.640 Kelly won the last week. So you're you haven't even 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.960 looked into this much closer. So I. 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.080 Refuse to believe this is accurate, and I will give 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.600 you no more airtime to speak these lies into existence. Uh, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.640 just jump to the actual show here. Like I said, 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.080 we're talking about kind of polarizing draft targets guys that 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.160 we are really struggling to rank. We didn't kind of 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.960 intentionally do it by position, but we do each have 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.240 one infielder to talk about, which have one pitcher coming 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.320 back from injury to talk about, and we kind of 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.560 have like a you know, wild card player at a 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.560 different position to talk about. And then like I said, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:26.360 we've got those listener picks as well. All right, we'll 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.480 start with the infielders here, and we'll start with mine 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.240 Jackson Holiday. So I actually didn't really intend to go 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.960 into this with like starting off talking about an Oriel. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.439 Kicking where you left off at the homework pick. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.160 So in might defense, I sent you like six names 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:42.679 and said I can't really pick, like which three d 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.080 you want to talk about? And Holiday was the only 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:47.800 Oriole on that list, But we did end up picking 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.440 an Oriel here. I think he's really fascinating to decide 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.160 because you could hardly have had a more hyped prospect 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.120 coming into last season. Not that he was like an 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.200 all time but like he was up there in terms 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.400 of his age and what he had done in his 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.640 limited experience as a professional at the minor league level, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.240 and you couple that with you could hardly have had 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.959 a worse debut. There was a couple of stretches where 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.080 it looked like he was turning things around, and you know, 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.520 he went on some some you know, heaters in terms 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.319 of like, oh he had home runs like three straight days, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.880 you know, some big hits. But overall, you know, the 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.920 batting average is one to eighty nine, the ops was 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.079 five sixty six. He only had four stolen bases in 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.959 sixty games, which I was surprised by. I thought he 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.480 was going to run a bit more. Obviously. The strikeouts 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.640 were like a huge problem, particularly early. He struck out 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.240 in fifty percent of his plate appearances in his first 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.280 you know, a couple of weeks in the majors before 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.760 being demoted and then coming up again and doing a 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.560 bit better his second time through, but overall, like obviously 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.000 a very poor year. Having said that, he's now kind 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.040 of gotten that under his belt. The Orioles in particular, 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.400 we have seen this happen a lot. Gunnar Henderson struggled 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.439 his first kind of month or two. The big Leagues' 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.720 Adlee Rutchman struggled for like a month before kind of 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.920 breaking out. You know, Jackson Holiday a bit longer of 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.880 a struggle. He was a bit younger than those guys too, 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.240 and then they turned it on and showed everybody why 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.520 they were number one prospects in baseball. You know, kind 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.760 of once that switch was flipped, Holiday in camp looks yoked. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.679 He clearly beefed up in the offseason. I wouldn't be 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.080 surprised if we see more power this year. He's now 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.640 gotten to spend an entire offseason focusing solely on second 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.480 base and knowing that's where he's going to be playing 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.080 this year. I think there's a chance that he just 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.240 explodes and has this awesome year at the position. I 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.080 also think there's a chance that he's still young, hasn't 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.800 the switch hasn't flipped yet, and he's not good given 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.520 the pedigree and the age. I want to be buying 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.760 Jackson holiday. I want to have him on my teams 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.120 and take that swing, because I think there's a ton 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.840 of real upside there, especially in a lineup where if 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.400 he is good, if he is what we think he 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.280 can be, you can slide him in at the top 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.120 of the lineup, move Gunner down to maybe the three spot, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.040 leave Adleott two, and all of a sudden, the opportunity 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.000 for scoring more runs is going to be like immense 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.840 as opposed to where he's been hitting, which is in 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:01.640 the kind of seventy eight to nine range. But the 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.120 downside is clearly there, because we just saw the downside 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.160 last year, and it's really the pedigree that we're counting 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.560 on as a reason to think he's going to take 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.520 a big step forward rather than at least in my opinion, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.040 anything we saw like in the underlying numbers last year. 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:16.200 At the end of the year, it was better than 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.760 it was in April, but not like, oh, this is 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.760 the most obvious breakout guy. So that's why I really 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.200 struggle to rank him both at the position and kind 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.000 of overall. What say you may. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.120 Yeah, I agree with most of what you said. I 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.040 feel like this year we might still be from a 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.480 fantasy perspective, maybe like a year early. Like you said, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.240 he's still really young. He came out, he had a 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.160 really rough start. I don't want to put too much 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.880 weight into projections, but I always look at projections when 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.280 I kind of like, you know, pull up their pages 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.160 and kind of like see what we're looking at. Projections 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.080 don't love him, And with the caveat that, projections are 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.280 usually pretty conservative, so it's you're not going to see 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.080 projections like predict a major breakout, so you kind of 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.480 have to take that with a grain AsSalt when you 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.000 are looking at projections. But I do kind of look 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.680 at the consensus projections on fans to browth and see 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.720 what we're looking with. Shout out to Zeal Projections, by 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.240 the way, second most accurate last season behind Derek Carty's 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.440 The bat X and Fantasy Pros. Zeal projections were actually 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.480 the first for pitching, so shout out to Fantasy Spros 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.680 data team for that, but they haven't protected for like 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.320 one hundred and nine between hundred nine hundred twenty games, 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.840 eleven home runs, eight stolen bases, batting in like the 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.720 two thirties. That's that's pretty much the contensus across the board. 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.480 That's not great depending you know, for fantasy obviously you 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.280 would want him to take a like I said, as 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.560 being conservative, you want to take a bigger step forward. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.760 I think that I think that game's total is wrong. 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.000 I think he's playing every day for the most part. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:40.520 Like I don't think we're going to see the same 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.520 level of sitting him against lefties that we saw last year. 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.120 Like the way they approached this offseason. As an Oils fan, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.880 I was somewhat, you know, frustrated by it, but it's 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.880 very clear it's Jordan Westberg is playing third base every day, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.840 Gonna Hunderson is playing shorts up every day, and Jackson 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.560 Holliday is playing second base every day, and he will 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.280 have to struggle to not play one hundred and forty games. 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.640 In my opinion, I could be proven wrong, but I'm 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.880 expecting a full year from him. 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.320 Yeah, and that's possible, and they're definitely being conservatives. You 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.399 wonder are they Are they predicting more sitting versus lefties. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.760 Are they protecting him to get sent down at some point? 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:22.239 Which is possible from a fantasy perspective. I do think 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.560 it's a year early, but he is going pretty late. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.720 He's going I was actually looking at my rank because 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.640 I have him wrong to right around two hundred. Right now, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.480 let's see where he's his ADP is, and he's right 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.879 around there. He's one ninety four. So you're not gonna 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:39.560 it's not like a huge risk. You're not taking this 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.800 guy in the first five rounds, and so there is 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.320 the upside of like the breakout there. I tend to 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.399 think we're still a year early just because of how 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.520 young he is, but you know, a lot of potential there. 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.520 What do you think about at the position he's he's 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.119 sixteenth amongst second basement right now in ECR, you know, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.880 surrounded by names like he's right ahead of like Glabora Torres, 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.879 Jonathan India, you know, Michael Garcia's twentieth ahead of him. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.120 You know guys like Bryson Stott Rise, you know Nico 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.000 Horner's a few spots ahead of him, Like is that 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.159 is that the right spot for him is sixteenth at 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:13.640 the position. 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.080 Yeah, I would say it probably is Nico Horner. I 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.120 would prefer over him. Matt Shaw is someone like Kelly 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.800