WEBVTT - Steve Ballmer 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.760 Steve Bomber and Bill Gates have a lot in common. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.920 They were both CEOs of Microsoft. There are two of 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.960 the wealthiest people in the world, and they both dropped 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.160 out of prestigious universities to work at the computer company 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.079 founded by Gates and Paul Allen in ninety five. But 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.720 when Bomber joined Microsoft in nine eighty as the company's 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.520 thirtieth employee, Microsoft had yet to dominate the personal computer market. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.880 It eventually created three billionaires and an estimated twelve thousand 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.519 millionaires out of its employees. After seating control of the 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.560 company to such an Adela in Bomber purchased the Los 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.640 Angeles Clippers for two billion dollars, joining Microsoft co founder 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.000 Paul Allen as a fellow NBA owner. He recently sat 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.440 down with Carlisle Group co founder David Rubinstein. They spoke 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.640 on David Rubinstein's Bloomberg television program Peer to Peer Conversations. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.240 As we sit here today, you were the owner of 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.880 the l A Clippers. Let's talk about how you became 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.840 an owner of the Clipper. So you retired in two 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.080 thousand fourteen from Microsoft as a CEO, and the Clippers 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.000 were more or less going to be available. You paid 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.039 two billion dollars for the team at the highest price 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.399 than ever paid for a sports team in basketball, where 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.360 all the other owners happy with you because you elevated 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.320 the value of all their franchises. And I assume they've 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:21.840 pat you on the back whenever they see you. Now, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.440 when I bought that, I think there were two reactions 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.680 about the team. Number One, yes, as you described, yes, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.760 our teams, Well, this has been a great investment. The 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.480 second was, oh, my god, I wonder if this guy's 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.560 gonna throw over ound money in a way in a 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.280 way that's gonna and the league has plenty of rules 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.160 so you can only it's it's hard to outspend anybody else. 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.000 But I think there was a little concerned about that. Okay, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.760 so you were living in Seattle area. Now you have 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.680 a team in the l A. Do you go down 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.640 there and yell and scream like all the other fans. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.440 I do. In fact, we have forty one home games. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.640 I've probably made thirty eight this year and maybe another 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.880 seven away games. So I make it to a lot 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.280 of games, and uh, it's fun to be enthusiastic. I 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.400 enjoy it. Uh, you know, things are most fun when 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.960 it's your kid playing. Uh. Second, most, you know this 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.880 owner thing is pretty good because you have a sense 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:13.880 of the dynamics of the guys. So you go into 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.040 the locker rooms and say, well, you know, guys could 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:17.840 do this better, or that you tell them anything in 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.400 the locker room, or you give any tips. I got 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.600 three principles. Number one, don't talk to anybody after a loss. 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:29.720 That's number one. Coach, yes, but not players. Number two, Uh, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.400 you know, pump guys up, which I do usually with 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.600 texts after a game, or sometimes I go talk to 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.400 somebody after big games in the locker room when we 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.640 lose or win our last game of the season in 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.400 the locker room, and I go to training camp at 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.200 the beginning of the year, give a little speech, um, 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.440 a little bit of a pump up. I guess you'd say, 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.880 But you have coached um young children in basketball. Do 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:54.680 you ever take any of the tips and give them 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:59.120 give them to your l a Clippers coach. No. I 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.640 hear their owners to do that, and I'm not gonna 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.359 be that guy. Well, you're famous when you were Microsoft 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.880 for pumping up people. You have a voice that projects 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.160 and when you're watching the game, do you yell and 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.320 scream like everybody else, I yell and scream. I've become 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.680 a little more moderate, so I preserve my vocal cords 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.320 because you know, it certainly can be a problem when 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.720 you're let's go, let's get these goods. You know, um, yeah, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.880 it can be an issue. So what's more fun running 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.480 Microsoft or running the l A Clippers? Running the l 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.800 A Clippers, I mean, running Microsoft was a ton of fun, 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.040 and it was you know, it's kind of inspirational because 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.600 we were working on stuff that literally transformed the world. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.640 And I got a lot out of that, and the 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.400 intellectual challenges were strong, and I loved that, and I 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.480 thought a unique value to add. But just for fun, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.960 fun fun. There's really no stress running a basketball team, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.120 except you really want to win. Let's talk about your background. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.120 If you grew up in the Detroit area, your parents 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.480 were immigrants. Where were they from? My dad was an 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.720 immigrant from Switzerland. He let Switzerland after World War Two, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.640 worked for the U. S Military as an interpreter at 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.560 the war trials at Nuremberg because they were looking for 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.600 German speakers who were not German citizens because they were 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.040 afraid of that. And then he met his sponsor. Uh 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.839 was one of the g I s dad who he 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.160 had worked with as an interpreter. I don't think he 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.720 finished high school. He's never precisely and that certainly didn't 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.440 go to college, but he worked at Ford. My mom 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.240 actually not an immigrant, her parents were and they came 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.440 from I guess it was probably Russia at the time. Okay, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.640 so you did pretty well in high school. Your validatornamor class. Yes, 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.240 he went to Harvard. And then when you're at Harvard 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.880 you have a classmate that's down the hall name Bill Gates. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.840 It was interesting because the guy who introduced and says, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.440 you guys are both kind of weird, energetic guys you 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.000 should meet. So we did. And the time we met 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.680 was just about the time he was starting Microsoft plus 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.040 or minus a month, I want to say. And that 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.359 clearly was more than this is just going to be 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.400 another random guy. I mean, a guy starting his own company. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.640 It was the second company A done one in high school. Uh. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.640 He was clearly a special, a special guy, and I 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.240 got to know him pretty well. You graduated Magna Cloudy 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.080 and then you decided to go to Procter and Gamble. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.280 I did Procter and Gamble now very often Procter and 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.560 Gamble gets a lot of very talented people in their 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:25.080 young trading programs. Did anybody famous work alongside you? Well, Bunny, 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.120 you should mention that a number of people did when 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.560 I was there. Scott Cook, who started into it, was there. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.279 Jeff Immelt who ran Ge and I worked together on 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.560 Duncan Hind's Brownie Blueberry Muffin and Moist and Easy Snack 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:44.200 Cake Mix. We were the dynamic drivers of brownie mix sales. 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.960 Um so he was. He was around. Meg Whitman came 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.400 right after I left. It really was a great, a 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.800 great place. Go to Stanford and you're gonna get your 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.320 m b A. And then you decide to leave and 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.080 drop out of Stanford to go to this tiny startup 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.800 in Seattle are called Microsoft. What did your father saying 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.440 about that? Oh? He he was apoplectic in a way. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.800 I mean, he didn't try to stop me. But I 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.080 remember when I called home and my dad said, what 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.960 the heck is software? Uh, he'd actually been involved installing 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.080 Wang systems old word processors. But what software? And then 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.920 my mom said, why would a person ever need a computer? 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.000 Now today you'd say that's crazy but wasn't crazy in night. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.400 But they said, okay, okay, we hear you, we hear you. 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.400 If it doesn't work out, you go back to business school, right, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.800 I said, right, And then never came back. So the 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.640 summer ends and you stay there, and you're the thirtieth 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.440 employee of Microsoft, and ultimately you become I guess next 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.440 to Bill Gates and Paul I on the biggest shareholder. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.120 What were the jobs you had as you work your 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.400 way up? Well? I started out as assistant to the president. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.040 I was Bill's assistant, basically chief cook and bottle washershire 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.640 So I set up the accounting, which there was some, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.440 but we needed a professionalize. I was the HR department. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.400 I hired everybody. When IBM came the first time about 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.600 their personal computer, I became the kind of salesman on IBM. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.160 Why I knew how to wear a tie. I was 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.480 about the only guy around the place, and Bill said, 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:21.240 you have a diet in a suit? Why did you 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.160 come to the meeting? So when did you realize this 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.760 isn't a little startup that's gonna be a nice little 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.240 company in in one part of the software world. It's 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.440 going to be a dominant company in the world. By 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.840 the late eighties, I would say, for sure, I knew 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.160 the company is going to be something. I remember when 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.480 Andy Grove, who went who ran Intel, said someday there'll 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.280 be a hundred million computers a year or sold. Bill 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.080 and I looked at each other and said, he's nuts. 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.440 There's never gonna be a hundred million. These days, there's 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.640 three hundred million plus computer sold a year. And your 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.520 father and mother, what did they say at this point? Yeah? 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.440 And then they got they got comfortable when we went public. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.880 They knew I wasn't gonna be brokeh Will actually offered 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.280 me a decent starting salary. It was either forty or 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.400 fifty grand I can't remember which looked good in that 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.920 in that day and age. So they knew that was 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.520 a good choice. Now, my dad still had a little skepticism. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:17.280 There were all these people and there was nothing physical 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.560 you could get your What do all these people do? 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.000 There's no there's no product. What did they all do? 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.280 So that that that was a confusing point. I mean's 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.200 a smart guy, but he'd always asked me that every 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.440 time we went through the campus. So and near two thousand, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.320 you become the CEO. Bill decides to sort of sort 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.320 of retired, became the chief software architect, but no longer CEO, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.600 so you now can run the place where you were 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.640 surprised that Bill decided to retire. I was surprised. I 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.640 was surprised. Bill had asked me to be president. Said fine, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.120 and that was a another number two position and I 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.120 was fine with that. And then Bill came to me 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.319 and said, hey, will you be CEO? And I asked him, 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.800 do you really want me to be CEO or do 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.679 you really kind of want me to be a figurehead? Um, 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.560 just just tell me. He says, no, I really want 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.880 you to be CEO. And I would say, was I CEO? Well, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.080 because Bill, you know, stayed working every day, told about 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.400 two thousand eight, and I would say I didn't feel 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.880 like a total CEO probably until Bill wasn't working there 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.319 every day in two thousand and eight, because there was 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.960 a lot of shared responsibility. Talk about some of the 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.800 things that happened while you were CEO. You moved into 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.600 video gaming, I guess Xbox. Yeah. We were saying, what's 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.880 the path for uh software if you will, into the 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.800 living room, and the only path that was really clear 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.200 at the time was the video gaming systems. There was 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.120 no way to be in the video game business and 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.360 not build the hardware. We had been in the hardware 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.320 business in a small way. We'd had our mouse product, 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.160 a few other products along the way, and frankly, I 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:03.200 think we probably in many ways have done more hardware sooner. Well, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.360 you've made another investment at the time that was actually criticized. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.080 It was an investment in a company called Facebook. I 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.480 think you invested about three hundred million dollars or so. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.720 And why did you do that and did you regret 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.559 not trying to buy the whole company. I did try 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.480 to buy the whole thing. Uh. Zuckerberg came up to Seattle, 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.920 we met down there. I put a concrete financial offer 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.920 on the table, but it's a little ross. Pero tried 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.280 to buy Microsoft from Bill Gates in like seventy nine, 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.040 and Bill said, no, founders really have a lot of 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.160 love and passion around their stuff. And even though Facebook 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.520 was tiny I think it was two thousand nine and 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.240 I offered twenty plus billion dollars something like that and 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.080 market absolutely no interest. Wow. Okay, So a couple other businesses, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.840 they think the smartphone business that Apple is now more 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.360 or less perfected, at least the United States. Uh, you 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.840 were skeptical that that would be a great business. Do 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.800 you think Microsoft could have gotten into that business or earlier? Yes, 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.200 we could have and should have. We should have done 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.760 in my opinion, we should have gotten in the harbor business. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.560 And that's my I blew that. One of the other 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.200 things that happened during this period of time when you 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.520 were the CEO was cloud computing. Your own neighbor, Amazon 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.640 built this big business under your own nose. Were you 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.560 surprised that they have become so big in cloud? They've 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.680 had more success than I anticipated. I didn't sell them short, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.960 but they have had more success. Here's here's why I'm 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.319 not saying I was completely dubious. It is very hard 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.520 sometimes for big companies to do something very different. I 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.880 call it doing a second trick. At the time, I 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.320 would call Amazon a one trick pony. It was doing 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.080 this retail stuff. It was doing an awesome job. But 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.640 to do a second trick, you don't get a lot 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.120 of companies who do that. That doesn't mean Microsoft's out 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.439 of the game, are you know? We started this thing 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.560 called Azure and Office three and my successor, Sata has 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.679 taken the thing too very much New Heights, and right 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.640 before you left you tried to buy and you did. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.360 Ultimately after you left, I think they completed the Nokia 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.320 acquisition and that was an effort to get into smartphones 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.280 that didn't work out. Why do you think it didn't 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.559 work out? I think out. I think there were probably 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.720 two reasons. Number one, maybe it was late, and number two, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.200 after I left, while the company went ahead and bought 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.280 it um, I don't think there was the same level 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.080 of enthusiasm at the board level and management level for 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.720 scaling up and investing there. Okay, so you ultimately decided 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.880 to leave and your successor UH is such an Adela 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.079 or your surprise when he was selected? No? No, he 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.400 was the recommendation that I made. He's the recommendation that 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.800 Bill Gates made. I thought he was a candidate to 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.880 replace me, which is why we moved him into his 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.319 last job, which was running one of the big divisions. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.520 And I was glad he got the job because he's 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.839 done a great job. Now, when you were there, you 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.280 dramatically increase sales UH, and earnings were dramatically higher. The 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.760 stock price didn't go up. Why do you think there 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.840 wasn't a correlation between the stock price and earnings and revenue. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.959 Probably two factors. Number One, I took over at least 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:12.800 at the worst time if you want your stock price 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.199 to go up. I came in right at the heart 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.480 of the dot com bubble. Everything was sky high. The 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.040 bubble breaks, and by the way Judge orders the breakup 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.480 of Microsoft, that happens, you know, within several months of 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.240 me taking over, and things fall down and then you 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.720 have to build back up. That's number one. By the 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.040 end of my tenure, I had a certain kind of 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:39.880 reputation with Wall Street and and not not that favorable, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.800 not about my performance, but certainly people, Hey, the guys 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.319 a grinder's gonna keep doing this thing, but are all 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.560 these new things gonna actually break through profit wise? And 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.040 number two, I think mostly people on Wall Street would 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.839 have said I overinvested. I was spending too much money. Uh. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.839 And the only chance to position the company really came 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.839 when Sacha started. And you know, he's done a good 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.000 job of repositioning the company and investor's minds. So since 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:09.920 you've left, the stock has gone up a fair bit 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.360 and your net worth is going up a fair bit. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.080 As a result, you're the biggest individual shareholder of Microsoft. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.160 Is that right? Yeah, that's right. So how come you 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.400 didn't sell more shares because Bill Gates and Paul Ellend 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.160 have sold a large part of their shares well. When 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.960 I was CEO, I just didn't think it was right. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.280 Somehow didn't feel right to me. And it's not like 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.120 I'm even with what I had done to diversify at 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.600 that time. It's not like I'm going to go broke 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.560 if the Microsoft stock does poorly. Uh, And it wasn't 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.760 doing poorly, and I ran the company. If I didn't believe, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.080 and people knew I already had enough money, I should 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:50.560 stay invested. I should stay there. When I left, I 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.800 still loved the company. I did a little bit of 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.720 of stuff to diversify slightly. I put some money aside 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.320 for charity, but I still you know, I'm a loyal 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.040 loil dude. I still drive Forwards. My dad worked at Forward, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.160 and I still own Microsoft stock. So you retire off 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.440 as the CEO at the age of fifty seven. What 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.120 did you decide you wanted to do when you left? 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.600 I had not really given it a ton of thought 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.320 until I left. I again had this sort of hardcore notion. 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.680 I was supposed to just give give it all from 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.240 Microsoft until they leave. So I leave, and what am 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.240 I gonna do? Well? Owning a sports team was attractive, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.760 so within a few weeks I went and visited Roger 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.320 Goodell and Adam Silver, the NBA and NFL commissioners. I 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.760 thought that would be a fun thing to do. Uh, 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.480 and my wife, who had been involved in philanthropic stuff, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.920 really focused in on foster kids and disadvantaged kids and 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.880 state of Washington. She said, come on, dude, time you 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:54.920 gotta get involved. Uh So I did. Um At first, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.320 I said, come on, government takes care of these problems, 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.280 and she said, no, Philanthropy's got her role. But it 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.120 did intrigue me to what degree government really does help 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.120 disadvantage kids. I had a hard time finding the numbers, 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.360 which led to me starting this thing called USA Facts 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.320 and between USA Facts or philanthropy, the clippers and having 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.720 a good time, which in my case means exercising and 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.520 playing golf. Um, my life's pretty full. Okay, I don't 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.560 play golf because my theory was, if I had a 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.040 meeting with you and you thought I was competent, intelligent, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.920 and you saw me in the golf course. It would 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.520 destroy the illusion of competence. So I guess why I 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.440 don't play um, But you're probably right and I still play. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.160 So let's talk about the organization you started USA Facts. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.320 How did you get involved in this idea and what 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.400 is it now doing? So I said, I really want 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.640 a consolidated view of what government does. Where does the 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.760 money come from, where does it go? And oh, by 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.400 the way, also, what are the impacts? You know, if 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.040 we're transferring wealth, what does quality of life look like? 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.600 We're investing in education, It is the quality of the outcome. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.399 How how good are or how well are our kids doing? 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.720 What are your philanthropic goals? Would you say in terms 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.680 of areas you want to focus on with the wealth 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.800 that you have, Yeah, we're single purpose. What can we 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.119 do to improve the chances that kids born at the 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.960 bottom of the economic total poll their parents are move 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.359 up economically. You're always going to have some people who 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.280 are at the bottom of the economic total poll. It 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.960 shouldn't just be the same people all the time. People 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.639 should be moving up. People should have a shot at 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.320 the American dream, which is the chance to do whatever 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.679 you want to do and that's not true. For a 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.280 lot of kids when they're born, their probability of staying 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.440 where they are economically is very, very high. I don't 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.720 think that's okay. There are a lot of reasons people 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.600 point to education. Education is a part of it, but 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.280 there are a lot of reasons why kids can't get 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.639 an education. And I think it's important to take a 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.679 look at that chain and then try to find not 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.560 only the not for profits to invest in. We think 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.399 it's very important to try to stimulate the right behaviors 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.359 by government and the right spending by government because it 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.600 can make a huge difference. So if you look back 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.600 at your extraordinary career at Microsoft and now what you're doing, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.960 any regrets or you're happy with everything the way it 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.439 worked out. I'm pretty happy with the way things worked out. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.240 I mean, I can go back and there's decisions I'd 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.359 make differently if I was at Microsoft. But you know, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.680 if I look at the span of work, we went 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.560 from a company that had two and a half million 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.679 in sales and thirty people to a company that had 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.560 a hundred thousand people and eighty billion roughly of sales 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.240 and lots of profit. I can feel good about that. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.320 Even though, uh, there were mistakes. I started out the 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.120 process with a lot of friends. I still have mostly 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.560 the same friends as I did, which I feel very 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.520 good about that. I'm in a very good place in 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.879 my life now, probably you know, in a way, the 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.720 best ever. Although I wouldn't trade out anything I did 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.760 in the past, at least at this age. I like 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.120 being a little less busy. That's good for me. I'm 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.480 pretty pleased. So as a leader, uh, you are well 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:09.479 known for very visible and vocal expressions of your thoughts. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.879 Is that a style you consciously adopted or it just 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.680 happened that way. I was a very very shy kid, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.960 very shy kid. I was a shy kid when I 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.280 got to Harvard. And then I built my confidence as 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.600 my as I built it because I was doing things 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.919 and being successful. I was shy when I got to 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.760 business school. When I got to Procter and Gamble. First 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.800 day I started a guy who wind up my roommate. 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.680 He said it was like this, Hi, my name is 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.800 Steve Bohmer. My palms sweaty because I'm so nervous, UM, 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.480 so shy kid. And then I got better and better 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.439 and I developed some confidence in public speaking. And and 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.720 it turns out I have something of a knack and 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.000 part of that is getting in front of your troops 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.000 and pumping them up and tell his story and um, 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.040 I will do and bestball. It's a weird environment because 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.200 of course I don't have a lot of credible why 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.600 I'm an owner for that, sax, I'm not an expert. 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.679 But you know, at the end of the day, at 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.000 least I can I can get into the game and 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.359 be verbal and vocal. Okay, what would you say is 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.960 the most important characteristic to be a good leader. Commitment. 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.240 You really have to have your head in the game 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.840 and be committed to be a good leader. There's two 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.159 parts of leadership. One is leading people, and that's about 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.440 commitment and people understanding you have commitment. The other part 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.359 of leadership, which doesn't get talked about much because you 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.919 have to be a leader of ideas. The worst thing 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.000 you can do both for your people in generals to 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.240 say let's go and you point that way, and the 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.280 truth is you should have gone that way. So leaders 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.080 have to be leaders of ideas. The ideas compelled the people, 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.600 but then the ideas have to be right and you 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.800 have to stay committed. If twenty years from today or 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.320 twenty five years today, you're looking back on your life, 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.000 What would you want people to say was your legacy, 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.920