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Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to Behind the Bastard. It's a

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Speaker 1: podcast where the president has just found out about that

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Speaker 1: Republican member of Congress or that the member of his

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Speaker 1: administration is not Congress who's been talking about teleporting places

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Speaker 1: with that guy's name. It's faced on him. I just

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Speaker 1: read Trump's reaction where he was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about teleporting what. I gotta get to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of that. I haven't heard it. I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard about that. That's kind of crazy. It was a

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Speaker 1: very like normal. It was one of those every now

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Speaker 1: and then you get those moments where Trump has the

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Speaker 1: same reaction to something as like a normal person, and

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Speaker 1: it's just like unaccountably funny because he's clearly just hearing

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Speaker 1: about it, and he's like he's saying, what teleport.

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Speaker 2: Is the kind job he works at, like DHS now

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Speaker 2: or something something important, kind of important job. But he

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Speaker 2: told what to a lawful It's.

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Speaker 1: Really it's really funny just seeing him react to it.

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Speaker 1: It's just clearly like he's who, what does he know? What?

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Speaker 2: No, especially like a month ago, I.

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Speaker 1: Feel like I would know if one of my subordinates

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Speaker 1: was claiming to have teleported to a waffle house.

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Speaker 2: You don't know what I get up to in my

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Speaker 2: spare time.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't, but I do know what things

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Speaker 1: you claim to do. I at least pay that much attention.

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Speaker 1: That's a big thing to miss.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 1: But hey, he's got a lot of work to do.

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Speaker 1: He's going to get to the bottom reflecting pond on

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Speaker 1: the war and such. You know, Molly, are you ready

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Speaker 1: to talk about Ude Hussein some more? Molly Conger, host

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Speaker 1: of Weird Little Guys.

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Speaker 2: Little Guys, Little Guys, guys. I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: Excellent, all right, Robert, drink more of my horrible health drink.

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Speaker 2: Drinking strange colored beverage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's from the reflecting pool orange.

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Speaker 2: Wait, your drink is also funny colored. No, this is

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Speaker 2: plain water in my favorite cup, which is a blue jar.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that is weird. That's upsetting. I don't believe be blue.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that. Yeah, if God wanted jars to

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Speaker 1: be blue, that color would occur in nature. At the

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Speaker 1: time of Iraq's first World Cup appearance, Ude Hussein was

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Speaker 1: President of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, a job he had

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Speaker 1: received at age twenty, and head of the Iraqi Football Association.

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Speaker 1: He was also the owner of Al Rashid, Iraq's premier

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Speaker 1: football club. Their team gets to play in the Iraqi

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Speaker 1: Stars League, which is the highest division in the country.

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Speaker 1: And since Al Rashid was the most prominent club and

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Speaker 1: Uday also ran the Olympic team, this meant that from

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Speaker 1: age twenty on, Uda is basically dictator of football in Iraq. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like he's an even if you're not on his team,

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Speaker 1: if he's not your direct boss, he basically runs how

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Speaker 1: football works in the whole country.

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Speaker 2: Right, He's the football He's the football czar.

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Speaker 1: He's the football czar. Yes, Saddam made his son. The

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Speaker 1: footballs are his son, who again does not particularly care

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Speaker 1: for football. This would be a dream job.

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Speaker 2: For someone who liked this playing, or like was an

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Speaker 2: aspiring player.

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Speaker 1: He does not appear to have any interest in.

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Speaker 2: This sort of parked him here.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of the job he wound up with.

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Speaker 1: Like it's different from all of the other nepotism cases

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Speaker 1: like this, and that does not really seem to want

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Speaker 1: to run a football team.

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Speaker 2: Made him general or put him in charge of.

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Speaker 1: So many other things he'd rather be doing. But he

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Speaker 1: sucks in all of them.

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Speaker 2: Infrastructure. Did he get an degree in engineering? He could

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Speaker 2: have made it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm crazy it was a real degree, Molly.

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Speaker 1: He didn't go to real school. He has other people

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Speaker 1: doing his class work for him. But he could have

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Speaker 1: at least infrastructure. You can't. I'm not gonna like Saddam

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Speaker 1: was not overall the responsible man, but you could argue

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Speaker 1: that putting Uda in charge of the football team was

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Speaker 1: like the least damage he could do. Yeah, Like, if

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Speaker 1: this guy gets is involved anywhere in like the power grid,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have problems. So we don't know precisely what

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Speaker 1: Ude did to the national team after what he considered

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Speaker 1: to be their failure at the World Cup, but there

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Speaker 1: are suggestions that he began torturing his players around this time.

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Speaker 1: Rad Hamoudi, one of his best players, retired the next year,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like sometimes seen as a sign

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Speaker 1: that that's probably why that like Rod retires early, which

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Speaker 1: is really weird, and maybe it's because after this defeat,

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Speaker 1: Ude fucked him up. Right, Yeah, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be in this is the this is football. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be in this kind of football. Uda had

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Speaker 1: his people construct a series of red rooms what they

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Speaker 1: called red rooms in Iraqi state sporting facilities. These were

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Speaker 1: places where players who failed during important points in games

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Speaker 1: or training, or otherwise irritated Uday could be sent and

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Speaker 1: punished depending on the trespass in question. This could vary

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Speaker 1: from mere threats. Ude was particularly known to threw to

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Speaker 1: chop people's legs off. That was like one of.

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Speaker 2: His well you're not going to get that.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not going to improve there, But he never

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Speaker 1: I don't think he ever did this. This appeared there

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Speaker 1: was just something he would repeatedly threaten. He may have

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Speaker 1: had some legs broken, though he would also.

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Speaker 2: That was also not improve your soccer playing.

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Speaker 1: Not gonna help. He would also threaten to like feed

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Speaker 1: pieces of players to dogs, you know. And he would

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Speaker 1: also use dogs or threaten to use dogs to abuse

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Speaker 1: them to beatings that players. I don't know how often

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Speaker 1: he actually had the dogs maim them, because he usually

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Speaker 1: didn't hurt them all that badly because again, they are

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Speaker 1: still playing. But when he would beat them, like if you.

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Speaker 2: Can punish people, that won't make them less able to

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Speaker 2: play soccer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do think most of these are like

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Speaker 1: threats of the crazier stuff because when it talks about

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Speaker 1: the actual beatings that I mean, it's usually most of

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Speaker 1: the claims that Ude ordered people to do these beatings.

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Speaker 1: Some accounts will say that Uda participated in torture, some

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Speaker 1: accounts will say he never did. I don't actually know

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Speaker 1: which is is, but I think he generally, at least generally,

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Speaker 1: these are people who are working for him doing the torture,

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Speaker 1: and there is been testing. They're usually the way they're

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Speaker 1: physically punishing these guys is whipping them with electric cables,

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Speaker 1: right Like, that's kind of the go to physical punishment.

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Speaker 1: At least they don't.

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Speaker 2: Make them run.

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Speaker 1: They do that too, but that's not really torture. That's

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Speaker 1: just like normal workout stuff. I mean, you can do

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Speaker 1: it in a way that's abusive, certainly, but that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not going to satisfy a guy like Oude. He

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Speaker 1: is alleged. And there's I mean, they did find uh

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Speaker 1: you know the uh like the Iron Maiden, that thing

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Speaker 1: where it's like this big metal coffin you put someone

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Speaker 1: that's got spikes on the inside that you can screw

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Speaker 1: into them. They didn't find one of those at a

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Speaker 1: facility that was supposed to have been oodas like, there

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Speaker 1: are accusations that he was really into that, like specifically

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Speaker 1: into like old timey torture techniques. Again, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: hard to tell how much of this is literally true,

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Speaker 1: because I don't I've never run any accounts of him

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Speaker 1: actually that are of any detail of him iron maidening

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Speaker 1: somebody to death. Maybe he just had one because it

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Speaker 1: looked scary, but he may have iron maiden people to

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Speaker 1: death who weren't on the team. I just haven't heard

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Speaker 1: of him doing that to team members, you know. Or

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Speaker 1: maybe yeah, maybe he never got around to it yet.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like his unpainted model or whatever in

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Speaker 1: the corner, right, Because creativity is kind of what gives

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Speaker 1: life its zest, Ude took to experimenting, or at least

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Speaker 1: having his tortures experiment over time. As the early methods

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Speaker 1: of violence did not improve the team's functioning. He found

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Speaker 1: that in time, whipping people bloody with an electric cable

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Speaker 1: was fun, but what really took things up a notch

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Speaker 1: was afterwards, if you would throw them into like a

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Speaker 1: pit filled with sewage, you know, then you could really

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Speaker 1: mess people up. They get these horrific infections and stuff.

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Speaker 1: That a lot. Yeah, that definitely helps. That helps their

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Speaker 1: game is giving them fucking staff infections. The red rooms,

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Speaker 1: I think, as far as I can tell, probably got

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Speaker 1: their name both for like the obvious reason and also

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Speaker 1: as a reference to the red cards that are thrown

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Speaker 1: out in football games when a player makes like a

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Speaker 1: penalty and if you're not aware of sports, right, a

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Speaker 1: penalty shot is one of those moments in competitive sports

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Speaker 1: where everything comes down to the actions like a single player, right,

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Speaker 1: if you get to take a penalty shot, no one

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Speaker 1: else is kind of it's just can you make this shot? Right?

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Speaker 1: As an individual player, this means that one person is

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Speaker 1: to blame if a penalty shot is missed. And because

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Speaker 1: people who fail on the Iraqi football team get beaten

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Speaker 1: and tortured, most members of Al Rashid started refusing to

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Speaker 1: take penalty shots because you can't be like, oh, but

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Speaker 1: that wasn't my fault, it was this guy, or it

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Speaker 1: was I didn't get the ball entire right, like everyone

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Speaker 1: watched you fail to make that shot, and so nobody's

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Speaker 1: willing to do it. Eventually, they only have like three

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Speaker 1: guys on the team who are willing to actually take

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Speaker 1: penalty shots, and these are brave men. One of them

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Speaker 1: was Abbas Rahim Zayir. He told The Guardian many of

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Speaker 1: the footballers refused to even touch the ball, but then

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Speaker 1: we realized that if no one accepted, we would all

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Speaker 1: be punished. So Zaire basically agrees to be one of

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Speaker 1: the guys who will make penalty shots so that they

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Speaker 1: don't all get tortured. It's the only way to deal

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Speaker 1: with that. In one game, Zayia attempts a penalty shot

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Speaker 1: and misses. Two days later, when the team returned home

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Speaker 1: to Bagdad, he was ordered to show up at the

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Speaker 1: Olympic committee headquarters, which had become Ude's lair, complete with

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Speaker 1: a basement torture chamber. Per the Guardian, he was blindfolded

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Speaker 1: and taken away to a prison camp for three weeks.

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Speaker 1: He shrugged, end of story. That's him like talking to

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Speaker 1: the reporter there that he doesn't want to talk about

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Speaker 1: happened to the prison camp. I do have some details

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Speaker 1: from other people what happens at the prison camps. So

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Speaker 1: getting a penalty was just as bad, if not worse,

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Speaker 1: than failing at a penalty shot. Right, if you fail

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Speaker 1: at a shot, you're gonna get tortured because you didn't

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Speaker 1: make a point when you could have if you if

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Speaker 1: you do a penalty and the other team gets to

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Speaker 1: make a penalty shot, you're going to be punished for

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Speaker 1: giving them. You know that point basically, right.

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Speaker 2: Being the goalie has got to be.

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Speaker 1: A there's no position on the team under the goalie.

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Speaker 3: Goalie is one of the only positions on the team.

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Speaker 3: Were again, like, it's like a shot where it's on you.

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Speaker 1: You you let the ball, there's a lot of opportunities

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Speaker 1: for you to be the guy who gets the blade.

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Speaker 1: That's obviously not fair, but like that's how it's going

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Speaker 1: to be looked at by fucking I.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't want to be I wouldn't want to be's goalie.

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Speaker 1: I would not want to be the goalie under Dah's saying.

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Speaker 1: Uh so. That piece in The Guardian describes what happened

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Speaker 1: to Yaser Abdul Latif, former team captain, in two thousand

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Speaker 1: after he was accused of hitting the referee during a

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Speaker 1: club match in Baghdad. Quote. He was taken to the

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Speaker 1: Radwanya prison camp on the edges of the capitol and

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Speaker 1: confined to a cell two meters square with a tiny

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Speaker 1: window high in the wall. His head and eyebrows were shaved,

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Speaker 1: and he was stripped to the waist. He was in

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Speaker 1: order to perform press ups. For two hours, three guards

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Speaker 1: flogged him with links of electric cables, spelling off when

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Speaker 1: their arms grew tired. The torture continued into lower sets,

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Speaker 1: with an hour's break in between, and the beatings grew

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Speaker 1: more savage as Latif tired. The only relief, if it

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Speaker 1: could be called that, came when he was let outdoors

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Speaker 1: into the winter cold and doused in freezing water.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that that's I mean, you shouldn't put

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Speaker 3: your hands on the record, shouldn't put your hands on

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Speaker 3: the ref.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think that's a fair punishment.

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Speaker 1: I think obviously it's bad to put your hands on

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Speaker 1: the ref.

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Speaker 2: Wants a red card for sure?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a red card.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe maybe a five match band, depending on what

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Speaker 2: you did.

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Speaker 1: Hepped for days in a cell. Ye, I can give extreme.

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Speaker 2: I think did he rejoin the team after this or

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Speaker 2: was that kind of it for him?

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Speaker 1: No? No, he stays back on the team. It is

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Speaker 1: it takes more, he notes his interview. First off, he's

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Speaker 1: in that prison camp for two weeks. He goes through

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Speaker 1: this for two straight weeks and it's more than it takes. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: it takes a month before he can even sleep on

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Speaker 1: his back again. But yes, after he recovers, he goes

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Speaker 1: back to play for the team. And this is what

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Speaker 1: he's say because the Guardian asked him, asks him basically,

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Speaker 1: what you did? They're like you and you.

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Speaker 2: Went back, and he says the joys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he says. I never had any choice.

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Speaker 1: They threatened me if I didn't participate in the team.

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Speaker 1: They said they would beat me again and again and

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Speaker 1: consider me an enemy of the regime and that would

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Speaker 1: mean death. So again he doesn't.

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Speaker 2: He was really good at soccer, unfortunately for him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's also probably hard to find, Like after

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Speaker 1: a while, you would stop wanting other people to know

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Speaker 1: you were good at soccer in Iraq.

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Speaker 2: You would not put your kids in you for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I might avoid that for my kids playing games. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the power and money Ude got from his position

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Speaker 1: and from being able to torture people were far more

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Speaker 1: of his passion than you know, football. Most people who

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Speaker 1: knew him will note that he wasn't a big sports

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Speaker 1: guy and hadn't cared about the national team until Saddam

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Speaker 1: told him, hey, you can win my approval if you

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Speaker 1: avoid fucking that up. The Guardian's reporting notes that in

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Speaker 1: order to burnish his team's performance, he quote kept a

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Speaker 1: private torture scorecard with written instructions on how many times

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Speaker 1: each player should be beaten on the soles of his

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Speaker 1: feet after a particularly poor showing. And you'll find allegations

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Speaker 1: like that repeated by numerous sources. Where some differ is

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Speaker 1: in whether or not do they participated in the torture

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Speaker 1: himself or was just a fastidious manager now. The team

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Speaker 1: coach for most of this time was a Manuel Baba

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Speaker 1: da Wood, better known as Ammo Baba. He's fucking cool guy,

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Speaker 1: am Obaba like Ammo, like bullets Babao now am Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very cool. Nickname. Ammo was a former footballer himself. He'd

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Speaker 1: been a star in the nineteen fifties during the Iraqi

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Speaker 1: team's early days of glory, and he became the team

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Speaker 1: coach in nineteen seventy eight. Again when I said, probably

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Speaker 1: the reason why the team performed so well, UDA's first

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Speaker 1: couple of years in charge is because a better, a

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Speaker 1: really good coach had started a couple years earlier. Professional Baba, Right, Baba.

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Speaker 1: Ammo starts working there in nineteen seventy eight. By the

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Speaker 1: time Uda comes in like four to five years later

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Speaker 1: or whatever, he's gotten the team like into a really

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Speaker 1: good position. Right. So, because Ammo is so clearly good

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Speaker 1: at his job, he is beloved by Iraqis and that

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Speaker 1: means he's one of the few people with some clout

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Speaker 1: he's able to resist Uda on occasion without getting murdered, right,

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Speaker 1: because Ude can't quite murder him in public.

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Speaker 2: Right, you can't mess with a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they do argue a lot. Da doesn't know

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Speaker 1: shit about football, so the two like screaming fights with

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Speaker 1: some regularity. Sophy's gonna show you a picture of amm Obaba.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this guy looks fucking awesome. He's so cool.

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Speaker 2: He's so he's wearing Puma track suit.

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Speaker 1: He's clear yeah, Puma track suit. Fucking like black dark

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Speaker 1: Einstein almost styled hair, Like. He's so cool looking. I

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Speaker 1: can't believe he's not smoking. He looks like he should

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Speaker 1: be smoking.

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Speaker 2: That's Grandpa Munster.

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Speaker 1: What else he plastic.

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Speaker 2: Knows this man has.

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Speaker 1: He's getting amazing nose. He's so cool looking. I love him.

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Speaker 2: I love him so much. I'm so sad that he.

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Speaker 1: Had to deal. Oh you're gonna love Ammo more because

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Speaker 1: am Obaba's fucking cool. Here's how Justin Sherman describes Ammo

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Speaker 1: for These Football Times quote. Baba's outspoken nature against Udae

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Speaker 1: would garner admiration and cult like devotion from many Iraqis,

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Speaker 1: effectively shielding him from being killed because of the unrested

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Speaker 1: would unleash through the streets. Still, his lofty status could

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Speaker 1: not always protect him, as Ude once personally beat him

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Speaker 1: in front of fifty thousand spectators at the Al shab

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Speaker 1: International Stadium. He talked nonsense. Boba recalled about Ude. I

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Speaker 1: told him to go to hell. I said, he knew

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Speaker 1: nothing about football. How did I survive because the people

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Speaker 1: loved me so cool.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, I've been watching the World Cup and

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Speaker 3: I keep telling my husband, you know, like because one

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Speaker 3: of the first matches we watched, there were like an

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Speaker 3: insane number of red cards, like a record number of

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Speaker 3: red cards.

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Speaker 2: And I was saying, like, yeah, it's kind of it's

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Speaker 2: kind of more fun.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit more fun when it gets little,

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Speaker 3: when it gets a little testy, you know, people are

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Speaker 3: a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I take it back. I take it back. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to see that. I don't want to see the

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Speaker 2: manager of the team flog the coach on the field, flog.

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Speaker 1: The coach in front of fifty thousand people, and he

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Speaker 1: one basically just stands there. And I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to beat me, just beat me, you know.

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Speaker 2: Like he's you're the one who looks stupid.

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Speaker 1: This guy is so cool. I cannot exaggerate how chill

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Speaker 1: am Obaba seems.

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Speaker 2: At least he comes as the beating. That's the right

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Speaker 2: to the beating. Like, you're the one who looks foolish here, Bud.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the one who's losing control and being an

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Speaker 1: asshole in public. You know. So.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I also figured, since we just sawm Obaba,

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Speaker 1: I should show you a picture at this point of

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Speaker 1: the big guy, Saddam Hussein and his oldest son Ude together.

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Speaker 1: This is from around the time we're talking about this.

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Speaker 1: This would be like the eighties, somewhere around then. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're handsome guys. Look at them. Look at them, look at.

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Speaker 2: The matching matching mustaches. Looks they're good.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, dudes, is a little whiter than his dad's.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a little exaggerated. It's kind of like out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a little much, and he's trying to make.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can definitely tell Saddam's the novelist of

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Speaker 1: the two. You know he has that novelist shirt though.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, Sadam's it looks great. He always looked good,

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Speaker 1: good God. Yeah, I just want to go on record

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Speaker 1: that I do not think it's just a joke. So

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Speaker 1: there's this Yeah, no, I won't tell that Saddam. Who's

360
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,320
Speaker 1: the same story yet? One day, one day, So that

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Speaker 1: same year, Ude made what many regime watchers would argue

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Speaker 1: was his biggest mistake. This is nineteen eighty eight. So

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Speaker 1: kamal Hanna Jajo was Saddam Hussein's official food taster and valet.

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Speaker 1: This is basically his body man. You know. Jajhu's the

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Speaker 1: guy Saddam always wants in the room with him, right,

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Speaker 1: and if when you sit on that means something, right.

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Speaker 1: This guy's in a dude too, has a high official rank,

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Speaker 1: but he gets a lot of time with the boss,

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Speaker 1: and the boss genuinely cares about him. So Jajo is

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Speaker 1: about as close to Saddam as anyone can be, and

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Speaker 1: arguably closer to him than his fuck up fails on

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Speaker 1: ude because Saddam doesn't want Uda around him all day, right,

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Speaker 1: he won jo in the room.

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Speaker 3: This is the Iraqi equivalent of that young woman who

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Speaker 3: prints off articles from the internet for Trump.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And just as Trump clearly likes her

377
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 1: more than all both of his sons put to kill

378
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Speaker 1: both of his older sons put together, Saddam clearly likes

379
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Speaker 1: Jahu a lot more than Udeh, which may have been

380
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Speaker 1: why Uda hated him. So the following story that I'm

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00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: about to relate took place during a party at an

382
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 1: island resort after a dinner to honor the wife of

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Speaker 1: Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's president at the time. So there's this

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Speaker 1: big diplomatic event between Iraq and Egypt, and they're having

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Speaker 1: a party at this island resort, and that's when this

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Speaker 1: all happens. And I'm gonna quote now, nothing that happens

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Speaker 1: on an island, nothing good happens in an island party

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Speaker 1: resort party. Now with the president of Egypt in Iraq, No.

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Speaker 2: It's not gonna be something Weird's going on already.

390
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,479
Speaker 1: Bad it's gonna happen. So this is for a two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three La Times article. According to the most

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Speaker 1: widely accepted account, a large group of Hussein's bodyguards had

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Speaker 1: gathered for their own party on the island while the

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Speaker 1: state dinner was taking place. They were firing weapons in

395
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Speaker 1: the air and celebration, and Shajhu reportedly refused Udae's order

396
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Speaker 1: to stop, so Udai killed him. Furious, Hussain jailed his

397
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Speaker 1: eldest son and vowed to prosecute him to the fullest

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Speaker 1: extent of the law. It was only after a letter

399
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 1: purportedly written by Jajo's father and published in the state

400
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 1: media asked that Udae be forgiven that Hussein freedom and

401
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: sent him to Switzerland less than sixty days after his imprisonment.

402
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: So this is when a lot of people will say,

403
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 1: Da stops being the heir.

404
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 2: Apparent because he killed his dad's favorite friend.

405
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: He killed his dad's best buddy. Yeah, yeah, of his

406
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 1: dad's surrogate son.

407
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: That'll do it. That will that will mess it up

408
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 2: for you.

409
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of

410
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 3: psychology there, right, Like he just wants his dad to

411
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 3: love him and he can't.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah.

413
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 3: I love it, like this sort of this equivalent of

414
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 3: the Secret Service, right, like they're getting drunk and using

415
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:49,919
Speaker 3: their weapons.

416
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: It's just shooting off guns.

417
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 2: You know, We're all the same all the world over.

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Speaker 1: It's just like them. If I was the elite guard,

419
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 1: or hell, if I was like the president at a

420
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: fucking big political event like this, I would want to

421
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: shoot off guns afterwards, just to blow off some steam.

422
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: You know, they can't stop.

423
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Speaker 2: It's nice to know that people are the same everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is something we haven't had happen yet as

425
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 1: a country. Is like at a diplomatic event, the president

426
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Speaker 1: just going to a Secret Service guy and be like,

427
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 1: give me, can you have a machine gun? I want

428
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Speaker 1: to fire off a few rounds into the dirt.

429
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Speaker 2: We don't know. That doesn't happen at Camp David.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I yeah, yeah, I'd love to see it. Why not?

431
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 1: America is not doing so so hot. We could use

432
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Speaker 1: something lighter, something fun. The president firing a machine gun

433
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 1: blindly at a diplomatic dinner in Switzerland, you know, why not?

434
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: I guess the Swiss probably don't want that to happen.

435
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: Speaking of the Swiss, as punishments go being forced to

436
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: live in Switzerland with millions of dollars? Isn't that bad?

437
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: Right to the terrible situation. I would love that punishment. Yes,

438
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: I think we'll all take exile in Switzerland with millions

439
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: of dollars as a punishment if it's on the table.

440
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 1: But take me one of the downsizes. Swiss law doesn't

441
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 1: really care if you're some two bit dictator's son. Right,

442
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: maybe if you're like a high grade dictator's son, you

443
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: can get away with a lot in Switzerland. But you

444
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: gotta have a lot more than a few million, right

445
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 1: if you want to get that kind of preferential treatment.

446
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: You know you're not as Oude. You're not going to

447
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: walk around breaking Swiss laws without consequences unless you pay

448
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: some pretty hefty bribes at a high level. And sure no,

449
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: and because even it's I mean it's thankfully it's not

450
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 1: that bad. Who knows. But like, not long after he

451
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: moves to Geneva, he gets into a fistfight with a

452
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 1: cop at a bar, and his dad makes him come

453
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: home and marry the daughter of one of his friends.

454
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: This way with a cop at a bar. I mean,

455
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: you're just making sound relatable.

456
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,360
Speaker 1: This does sound cool. And you know who else got

457
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: into a fist fight with a kappita barly certainly not me? Nope,

458
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 1: but the sponsors of our podcast did. Oh yeah. And

459
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: every one of them, whoever comes up to advertise next

460
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: on their show, just staggered out of a bar with

461
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: the blood of a police lieutenant on their hands. And

462
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: it might be the next Dad, the Portland's Police Bureau,

463
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: or the Washington State Highway Patrol. We don't know whoever

464
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: it is. They just assaulted an officer. It's true, and

465
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: we're back. So Oude's forced home. His dad makes him

466
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: marry the daughter of one of his buddies, and this

467
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 1: is not a love match, to say the least. Day's

468
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: wife leaves him after just a few months, complaining that

469
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: he'd started beating her. So when Saddam and Vader Kwait

470
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: in nineteen yeah, yeah, oh shocking. Yeah. I don't have

471
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: any trouble believing that when Saddam invaded Kuwait in nineteen ninety,

472
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: Ude was not in a great position within the regime.

473
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: He's not super high up, and some sources I've read

474
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: will say that Day's body double at the time was

475
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: made to like pose at the front, in and around

476
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: combat positions to make it look like Udai was participating

477
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: in stuff. But that said, those most of those accounts

478
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: come from the body double that we heard from earlier LATIFII,

479
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: and he's the guy making things up a lot, right now,

480
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't doesn't. I don't have any evidence that he

481
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: did anything meaningful during the invasion either. I'm not saying that,

482
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: just like Latif exaggerates and lies constantly. Now, if you,

483
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, grew up in the nineties and

484
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: early two thousands, you know that Saddam Hussein was infamous

485
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: for his use of body doubles. This was a cause

486
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: of much hilarity in popular media at the time and

487
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: contributed somewhat, I think to the sheer gui with which

488
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: Hollywood movies post Desert Storm loved to feature characters dressed

489
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: like Saddam Hussein. You know, think of a fucking the

490
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: big Lebowski, right, Fucking a Saddam impersonator shows up in that.

491
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: There's like a weird number of like Saddams that you

492
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: run into in like nineties movies and some early two

493
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: thousands movies.

494
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 2: Very much a part of our consciousness.

495
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some of us, just you know, Saddam whose

496
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: desert storm had happened. He was like a major bad

497
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: guy in the American public consciousness. But some that I

498
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: think is all these gleeful stories of Saddam look alikes

499
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: definitely I think fueled some of that. Now I want

500
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: to do something a dedicated thing on Saddam and his

501
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: body doubles, because there's shockingly little real evidence behind a

502
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: lot of the claims about his body doubles. Again, I

503
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: don't doubt that he had people impersonate him for security purposes,

504
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: but yeah.

505
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 3: Is this what really sort of seeded into our consciousness,

506
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: this idea that all all of these world leaders have

507
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 3: all these bodies Like it's a big quan on psychosis, right,

508
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: that it's that all these people have body.

509
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: Doubles, and those that those body doubles are people living

510
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: like whole lives as this person, and like they have

511
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: all these restrictions in place, and they're constantly watched as

512
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: opposed to like, well, whenever we're traveling with the president,

513
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: we make sure there's a couple of guys who kind

514
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: of look like him from behind, if you like, drape

515
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: like a coat over him. So if we think there

516
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: might be a shooter. We can like run this guy

517
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: out who looks like the president, and may they take

518
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: a shot at him, But it's just guards, you know,

519
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: and then we can deal it. Like I think that

520
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: happens a lot, stuff like that, probably. But the crazy

521
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: stories you hear about, these like harems of body doubles

522
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: of Saddam, these like gangs of them, I think are

523
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 1: mostly fantasies, just like a.

524
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: Love Island mansion full of Saddam's.

525
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, too many Saddams. Now. Uda is also

526
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: famously alleged to have had a body double, and by

527
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: that I mean he is alleged to have had several.

528
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: But the guy everybody knows is Latif Yaya, and Latif's

529
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: claim is that he knew Udai in grade schools. We

530
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: talked about and people had commented how much they looked alike.

531
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: And then you know, years go by, and in nineteen

532
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: eighty seven, Yaya has been drafted and he's fighting in

533
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: the Iran Iraq War and he's somewhere near the front

534
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven when he gets recalled to Baghdad

535
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: and he finds himself sitting in a palace in Yaya's

536
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: book The Devil's Double. Here's how he described a meeting

537
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: with Ude Hussein that again probably didn't happen. He tells

538
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: his old school buddy that he wants to take him

539
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: away from the front and make him his Fiday, which

540
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: is a word that means double, although per Yaya's book,

541
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: a fiday is more than a mere double. A fiday

542
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: is everything. In Arab culture. Fiday means disciple, a fighter

543
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: and a partisan, a serf who must always be prepared

544
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: to give his life up for his master. I have

545
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: seen so many different news articles quote him saying this.

546
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: I don't think that I haven't found any other writing

547
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: about a fiday, at least not under the way it's

548
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: spelled in this I've never heard of this concept. I

549
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: think he's kind of making it up that this is

550
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: like a prominent concept in Arabic culture. I haven't found

551
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: that somewhere.

552
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't speak any Arabic language. And yeah, before it was

553
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: easy to google things. He could just be making it

554
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 3: up and assuming you'll never know.

555
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say I've asked anybody who would

556
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: be a comprehensive, but no one I've talked to was

557
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: familiar with this concept, and I couldn't just google around

558
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: to find googling or looking searching around find anyone. But yeah, yeah,

559
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: talking about this apparently universal Arabic social role of the Fiday,

560
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: which he's like every all of our great Kingdom's had this.

561
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: And I.

562
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: Really, because you're the only one talking about it that

563
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: I'm finding. Maybe I'm missing a bunch of shit because

564
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: it's just not written in English, but like I did

565
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: try to account for that, and I didn't run into

566
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: fucking anything, so whatever. When he was released, Yahya says

567
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: he was given a choice serve Uda as doppelganger or

568
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: have his family murdered and his sisters raped for an

569
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: article in The Independent, And yeah, to give you an

570
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: idea on how this, this, this story that's fanciful is

571
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: reported on by credible seeming papers. Here's how The Independent,

572
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 1: in an article by Jerome Taylor, reported on all this.

573
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: After rounds of plastic surgery, the transformation was complete. Mister

574
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: Yaya said that the between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen

575
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: ninety one, he was witnessed to some of Uday's worst excesses.

576
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: His prowls through bag that at night looking for women

577
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: to rape, his drug abuse, violent outburst, and Pinshant for torture.

578
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: He also claims to have survived twelve assassinate attempted assassinations.

579
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: Mister yah Yah thought of escaping only after Oudi, angry

580
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: that a girlfriend had started to openly flirt with a doppelganger,

581
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: tried to shoot him, mister Yaya claimed. He claims he

582
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: fled to Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq and later to

583
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: Austria with the help of the CIA. Again, I don't

584
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: have any like outside evidence other than this guy's claims

585
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: of any of that, any of that shit.

586
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: I would need it. I would need a second source.

587
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: I would need a second source, and there just isn't his.

588
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: And there are a couple of journalists who like looked

589
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: into this and tried to and like everyone who's investigated

590
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: this has been like, I have found no evidence to

591
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: corroborate any aspect of his story. That said his story

592
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: was as.

593
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: We know he's torturing, we know he's raping.

594
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Right stories up. But this guy, I mean, there was

595
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: money in it for Yahya, I think, but I don't

596
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: know fully why he did what he did, although that's

597
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: my guess because he was eventually portrayed in a film

598
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: adaptation of his book, also called The Devil's Double. Uh

599
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: Domin Cooper played Ude Hussein and Latif Yaya.

600
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: So oh, well, yeah, we only need one actor, of course.

601
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dominic, right, of course, that makes it efficient. Four

602
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: and plus Press loved talking to Latif in the years

603
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: between the Gulf War and the two thousand and three invasion,

604
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: and he always wove a good yarn, but he was

605
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: also obviously lying about a ton of it. And again

606
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: I will say for his part, he always says I

607
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: was actually against the Iraq War. He would say I

608
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: never wanted the US to invade because I knew that

609
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: would make things worse. He just, I think, was trying

610
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: to monetize off the fact that Saddam Hussein was like

611
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: the famous bad guy in Western society for a while, right.

612
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: And the network news loves to have a guy on

613
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: that will always say yes and will always say something.

614
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: Crazy, exactly exactly so. British journalist Ed Caesar finally actually

615
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: interrogated Yahya in the early two thousands after years of

616
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: him making these claims, not with minimal pushback, and he

617
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: found no evidence to support Yaya's claims. To have worked

618
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: as a body double for Uday again there. Yeah, there

619
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: is some evidence that he was tied to some regime

620
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: attempts to maybe like there's some sketchy stuff people have

621
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: alleged he may have been involved in. We'll talk about

622
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: that all at a later day. What I want to

623
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: talk about next is everyone's favorite US military adventure, the

624
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: Gulf War. Right, So, nineteen ninety Saddam Hussein invades Kuwait

625
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: and the subsequent international response led to the United States

626
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: is a disaster for Saddam's military and regime. Uday had

627
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: to endure the years of sanctions that followed, although he

628
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: would ultimately profit mightily as a result of the some

629
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: of the different like programs that were put in place.

630
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: I think oil for food is one of them. He's like,

631
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: like everyone who's tight and high up in the regime

632
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: going to take advantage of all of this to make

633
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: money for himself. But this isn't like a great time

634
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: for him or his dad or his brother. Right the

635
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: immediate years after the Gulf War, things are very messy

636
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: for the Hussein Its not as bad they're gonna be

637
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: right now, UDA's personal situation within the regime is worsened

638
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: by the fact that as the nineties went on, it's

639
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: become increasingly clear to everyone that Kusey is going to

640
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: be the heir apparent, right, SAMs know Saddam's He's he's

641
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: younger enough that Saddam learned from his mistakes. He raised

642
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: a somewhat gingdler son because still does some violent stuff,

643
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: but not as like uncontrollably and not in a way

644
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: that's like bad and dangerous for the regime.

645
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: You know, he's learning that he's been passed over, is

646
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: definitely going to improve his behavior.

647
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: Right, He's gonna a lot nicer guy now.

648
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: It's to be normal now.

649
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kusey is just kind of like a much steadier guy,

650
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: and he's also like a planner. Right while while Ude

651
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: is torturing soccer players, Kussey is taking control of Iraq's

652
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: intelligence apparatus and the Republican Guard It's elite internal paramilitary force.

653
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: And that seems like he gives him.

654
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: It gives you an idea of like how Saddam vius

655
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: his sons that he's like, yeah, you can keep running

656
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: the football team. That sucks now since she took over.

657
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: But Kusse gets like the CIA basically yeah.

658
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: So he's still got soccer though, like through the nineties,

659
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: he still got football soccer. He's maybe he's maybe he's

660
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: getting better at it, right, Like, I mean, he didn't

661
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: start out knowing anything about soccer, but he's been in

662
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: charge of soccer for years.

663
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, is it getting better? There's not much evidence

664
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: of that. There's not much evidence of that right now.

665
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: Because I am not a rube, I'm always careful when

666
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: trying to validate stories of horrors in Saddam's Iraq, not

667
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: because it wasn't replete with them, but again because of

668
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: all the disinformation that's out there, in part by like

669
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: angry dissidents who wanted to encourage US intervention against Saddam.

670
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: One reason that I feel comfortable saying all of the

671
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: specific stuff with the football team actually happened is that

672
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: the sources on this are a ton of Iraqi pro

673
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: soccer players, Like a bunch of their best former football

674
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: players have all talked about being tortured by Ude Husseying,

675
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: So I assume this is all true, right. The other

676
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: reasons they really want to physical Yeah, and there's some

677
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: physics people who had injuries and stuff and torture equipment

678
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: was found in a lot of the like we found

679
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: it as like physical.

680
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: I mean teacher who allegedly died unnamed way, an unnamed time.

681
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: This is somebody saying this happened to me, And here's

682
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: my scoll.

683
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly exactly, we're gonna hear from them now. So

684
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: one of these players was Sharar Haidar Mohammad al Hadithi.

685
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: He was a top level player in Iraq who did

686
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: well enough that he got to represent the country international

687
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: on several special teams, including during the nineteen eighty eight Olympics.

688
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: Per an article I found in an archive from the

689
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: September eleventh, nineteen ninety nine edition of The Mirror. Quote

690
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: he says he was hit interesting d the nine to

691
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: eleven here is incidental, but the end is also nineteen

692
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: ninety nine, so this is really before. This is before

693
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: the post nine to eleven, kind of like drive up

694
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: for the war in Iraq too, which is why one

695
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: of the reasons I'm interested in this source. So quote

696
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: he says he was hit repeatedly on the soles of

697
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: his feet, dragged on his bare back through a gravel pit,

698
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: and then made to jump into a tank of sewage.

699
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: So that the wounds would become infected. He was deprived

700
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: of sleep and fed bread and water. So yeah, that's

701
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: fucking again, that's acclaimed by a specific guy of a

702
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: specific torture that was done to him. Yeah, and that's

703
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 1: fucking nightmarish, right because of the team not doing well

704
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: in that year's Olympics.

705
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: And again, that's nineteen To make you any better.

706
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: At soccer, not gonna help, not gonna help. Sewage in

707
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: open wounds rarely makes football. I know that there are some.

708
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the Patriots famously get a lot of sewage

709
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: in their open wounds, but that's just because they're the Patriots.

710
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: You know, that's not best practices for anyone else.

711
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: I mean, Tom Brady thinks drinking water prevents sunburns. He

712
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: might think that makes you run.

713
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: Fast, Brady doing that. So in nineteen ninety three, Iraq's

714
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: premier team lost a friendly match against Jordan. If you

715
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: know Oude at this point, you know the man absolutely

716
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: did not believe in friendly matches. He had four players,

717
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: including Sharar, who we've just heard from, forced into a

718
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: van and driven to a prison camp. Here's how Sharar

719
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: describes his time in soccer prison quote. Shara says a

720
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: favorite trick of one sadistic prison guard was to tell

721
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: them to catch a mosquito in their cells. When half

722
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: anesthetized with fatigue from lack of sleep, they held the

723
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: insect out for inspection. Their captor would mock them, saying,

724
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: but that's a male mosquito, you fools, I want a

725
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: female one. Start looking again. It went on day after day,

726
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: night after night. One player had a nervous breakdown, others

727
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: were injured, and others, like Sharara, quit football and fled abroad.

728
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's pretty bad. That's that's bad creative. I'll

729
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: give that specific prison guard that I haven't heard of

730
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: that one yet. You know we have to respect ingenuity here,

731
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: don't we.

732
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: Oh, in the course of team all these years, he's

733
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: not actually interested in getting better?

734
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: Is he? He just likes doing because at this point.

735
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: He knows torture anymore.

736
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: This is not important. You wouldn't think he just likes

737
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: I think he just likes doing the torture.

738
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: To be honest, I think he's just just I think

739
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: he thinks, yeah, that may be it, or maybe he

740
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: just knows like a improving the team because he's got

741
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: it with this.

742
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 3: Nobody else is doing it this way, you know, the top.

743
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: They're not putting Ronaldo in a cell.

744
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: No, And at this point he's he's kind of crashing

745
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: out as a person. He knows he's not the Air

746
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: Apparent anymore. He's doing a lot of drugs, he's you know,

747
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: having mood swings in part probably as a result of that.

748
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: He's being violent and he's murdered committed several times. There

749
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: are several murders he's accused of throughout this period too,

750
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: just at like parties. So this is a guy who's

751
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: kind of regularly spinning out of control. And I think

752
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: to your point, Molly, I don't think he's focusing much

753
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: on whether or not this is making a team better.

754
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: I think this has just become an outlet for his anger.

755
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: Like he gets to go but to the team when

756
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: he's pitched. Yeah, yeah, he just likes it.

757
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: Now are just toys.

758
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: It fears weird to say. My favorite, but my favorite

759
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: soccer themed account of nightmarish crimes against humanity comes from

760
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: an account given by Ude's former press secretary, a Boss Janabi.

761
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: After Janabi fled Iraq, he told reporters about what had

762
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: happened after the team failed to qualify for the nineteen

763
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: ninety four World Cup. Ude presented them with a concrete

764
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: ball and made them kick it for hours upon hours

765
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: at a time. Just an awful guy. Again, he does

766
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: not care about the team at this point. This is

767
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: just about lashing out, right, Rice Man. In nineteen ninety five,

768
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Ude had another we'll call it incident. He was at

769
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: yet another party. He was drunk and probably on Malli

770
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: or coked up. He was on mally a lot in

771
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: the nineties or you know. Yeah so no, no, no,

772
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: no MDMA, you know at the yeah, yeah, So when

773
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: one of his ken folks gave a toast and mocked

774
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: Uday's speech impediment at Uday, as the story goes, oh

775
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: he just started being lasting. Yeah, he just starts shooting, right,

776
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: So this guy makes fun of him, and Ude just

777
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: pulls a gun and opens fire with an automatic weapon.

778
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:50,959
Speaker 1: It doesn't stop.

779
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: How kind of drugs was the other guy on that

780
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: you would make fun of Uday's speech impediment?

781
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: I know, right, because you have to think you'd stop

782
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: this at a certain point. He just shoots people periodically.

783
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: Maybe you're just so fed up with the fucker right

784
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: that you just can't hold it in anymore. He must

785
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: have been pretty annoying. Fuck, I don't think it was

786
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: a good party, even though udas on fucking ecstasy. So

787
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: as the story goes, he just he just starts firing

788
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: and he is six people. He kills six people. All

789
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: of the dead are supposed to have been bodyguards. But

790
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: his relative who had made fun of him was badly injured. Okay,

791
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's kind of guy he is. Ude was

792
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: also brutal other Iraqi team, Yeah, in a bad mood

793
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: while fucking rolling. Now. Ude was also brutal to any

794
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: other Iraqi team that had the misfortune to play Al Rashid.

795
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote again from George Woodward's article

796
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: in Tribuna. Special punishments reserved for those who committed offenses

797
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: against Al Rashid. For example, injuring one of their players.

798
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: For such an offense, Al Zarra defender Abier Sjamal was arrested.

799
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: He was taken to the stadium where the match had

800
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: been played, and in front of the Al Rashid sentenced

801
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: to sixty five lashes, such as the fate of anyone

802
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: who defies football and does not respect the rules of

803
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: fair play, said the local police chief.

804
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 3: Wait, so his team would we have to always win

805
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 3: because you're gonna let.

806
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: Him win.

807
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: A lot, which probably doesn't help the.

808
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: Team, Like they would win all their domestic matches, but

809
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 3: then when they play somebody outside of Iraq, they're not

810
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 3: gonna let I don't think.

811
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: They did win. They didn't win all their domestic matches,

812
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: but I do think there was a lot of a

813
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: lot of people would get especially if you ever foul

814
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: his team, you're going to get fucked up. But if

815
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: they get bat he's gonna fuck them up his team,

816
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So. Abbas Talawe, the captain of the

817
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: of an opposing Iraqi team, once annoyed Ude by complaining

818
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: that the referee had been ruling unfairly against his team. Quote.

819
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: The referee, it seemed to me, was was against us.

820
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: He ignored fouls by the opposition and gave a penalty

821
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: against us. As captain, I protested and got a red card.

822
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: That made me furious and I spat the referee. After

823
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: the game, I was told I was banned from football

824
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: for a year, and to make me understand my offense better,

825
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: I was sent for thirty three days to Ude's private

826
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: prison in al Radwania. There, every morning, his personal executioners

827
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: beat me fifty to seventy times with an electric cable

828
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: source exists. Again when it comes to like truth and stuff,

829
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: these are all very consistent stories from a lot of

830
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: different guys under their own names, you know, and it's

831
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: all very similar kinds of torture.

832
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: And this, to me is more believable than some of

833
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: those stories about sort of specific person like very detailed

834
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: accounts of him his own personal actions, whereas this is

835
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 3: delegating this violence to a state apparatus that we do

836
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: know did exist.

837
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: We know the prisons that.

838
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: A lot, we know the prisons existed, and like you know,

839
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: periodically he probably did lash out personally with violence, like

840
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: against that coach and just start beating people. But generally

841
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: he's he's delegating that because he's got goons. That's the

842
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: benefit of being the dictators.

843
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: You can just point to a guy and say put

844
00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: him in the pit.

845
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, if I had goons, I would have fun.

846
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: I would have fun with my goons. Don't don't you worry.

847
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: That's where that Nope, not going to make that joke anyway.

848
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: It will not surprise you that many other players and

849
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: officials claim that while Ude Hussein ran Iraqi football, it

850
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: was basically a crime to beat Rashid. Sometimes, sports journalist

851
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: Sala Hassan explained a red card for an Al Rashid

852
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: player was forbidden. Many of their goals were scored official

853
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: from obvious offsides. Leaders of opposition teams would be suspended

854
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: before facing Al Rashid, and when the team was on

855
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: a winning streak, life could occasionally be good. Players who

856
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: performed well were lavish, with Rolex watches and supercars. No

857
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: normal Iraqi could ever afford it. Not worth it, but

858
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: not worth it now. When top players failed, they were

859
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: punished like anyone else. Aved Rodi was one of Iraq's

860
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: greatest stars of all time. He's the guy who scores

861
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: their only goal in the nineteen eighty six World Cup.

862
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: Here's an account he gave reporters later. Once I was

863
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: unable to attend a team meeting with Ude, Ude sent

864
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: a car for me in the middle of the night.

865
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: I was taken somewhere outside the city, beaten and told

866
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: I would no longer play football. I was punished five

867
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: or six times, had my head shaved three times, was

868
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: held in custody twice, including exile to a military camp

869
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: where I was made to do hard labor.

870
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: And that's their best guy.

871
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 1: That's their best guy. That's like they're fucking messy. That's

872
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: their legendary that you know.

873
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: Crazy. Also, I'm very proud of you for knowing who

874
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: MESSI is. Good job.

875
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: Of course, I've been time in the rack. I have

876
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: to know who MESSI is. A quarter of the people

877
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: I met had a messy jersey. It's interesting. I came

878
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 1: across and then one of the articles I was reading

879
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: about that, there was this like paragraph because he's one

880
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: of the things that he would do was like when

881
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: he was pissed, he would have everyone's head shaved. He

882
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: would have people's like like his players shaved. And is

883
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: that like yeah, yeah yeah. And one of one article

884
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: felt the need to go into like in Muslim culture,

885
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, you're not supposed to shave your head, and

886
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: so this was like directly demeaning and that's not at

887
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: all what's going on. I'm sorry, you don't need to

888
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: do this, like here we have to explain what these

889
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: way these Muslims would be their head shaved. No, no, no,

890
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: you take here's an experiment. Get some goons, go up

891
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: to any random person, restrain them violently and forcibly shave

892
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: their head and see if they're traumatized. People don't like

893
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: doing that, you know, it doesn't matter that they're Muslim.

894
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 2: I French collaborators too, Like it's it's culturally legible.

895
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It would be like if you were like

896
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: and in French culture, being beaten while having your head

897
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: shaved in the street is bad. It's like this is

898
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: bad everywhere man.

899
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 3: In the French culture, this is seen as particularly negative.

900
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody likes having that happen to them. And it's

901
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: also this misunderstanding of Iraqi because like the picture was painting,

902
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: is that like as Muslims, they never shaved there and

903
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: that's just not at all. Iraq has a massive thing

904
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: of like barbers are a huge deal in Iraq. One

905
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: of the coolest things that when I was in like Iraqi,

906
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: Kurdistan in the north during Ramadan one year, because like

907
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: it's Ramadan. Shit gets in the middle of the night

908
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: because it's too fucking hot during the day and you

909
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: can't eat or drink anyway, so like everyone becomes nocturnal

910
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: for a lot of things, and like, I remember going

911
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: out with a buddy because he wanted to get a haircut.

912
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: It's like fucking midnight, and the barber's like using fire

913
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: and stuff to like cut his hair in parts. It

914
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: was really cool. It was a really elaborate, really good

915
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: hair like and my buddy who was in Iraqi, was like, no,

916
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: iraqis have the best barbers in the world. He was

917
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: very proud about this in an article where they were like,

918
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: here's how this strange foreign culture feels about having their

919
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: head shaved. Like, that's just racism. Guy.

920
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: It's like, if there were six you would have to

921
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 3: explain that this is particularly uniquely bad.

922
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not. There's just nobody likes it when you

923
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: forcibly shave their heads were beating them. It's generally unpleasant

924
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: for people, you know, who else will forcibly shave you

925
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 1: and beat you. No show, I would hope not good God.

926
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: I just let's just go on for a second here

927
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: and weird back. I've made my apologies to the sponsors.

928
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Ude Hussein in nineteen ninety six. Ude

929
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: was the target that year of an assassination attempt on

930
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: the street, so Baghdad, a team of heavily armed men's Yeah,

931
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: fucking finally, a team of heavily armed men spotted him

932
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: driving his red Porsche and opened fire. He was hit

933
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: and wounded eight times and barely survived. Saddam pulled out

934
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: all of the stops though, flying in a French shirt

935
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: surgeon to fix his oldest boys. So you could tell

936
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: something you care about him, you know.

937
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't want to die. That's beautiful. He loved

938
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: his son, That's beautiful.

939
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: Stalin wouldn't have done that for his boy, I'll say

940
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: that much.

941
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

942
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: So Ude survives, but permanently injured. He would spend the

943
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: rest of his life in wheelchairs or using a cane.

944
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: This contributed to further slight. Yeah, and this does not

945
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: make him better or like calmer. The fact that he's

946
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: now grievously injured and in pain all the time.

947
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: He's not normal now.

948
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the assassination attempt doesn't make him ginder.

949
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: This tributes to his yeah kind of derangement. And it

950
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: also he gets, you know, starts taking this out on

951
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: his players in By nineteen ninety seven, Ude Hussein had

952
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: been the head of Areki Football for more than a decade,

953
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 1: which meant he was a fairly well known figure within FIFA. Right,

954
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: this is a guy who is not at all a

955
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: Fridge figure that in the world of professional football he

956
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: can't be. These are not crimes that are completely.

957
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: He was not saying like you can't sit with us.

958
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: No, no, they're not. Though he's basically like a team

959
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: owner and manager rolled into one a lot of the time.

960
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety seven, Ude's team failed to win

961
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: a qualifying match with Kazakhstan and lost their chance to

962
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: attend the nineteen ninety eight World Cup. Ude lost his

963
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: shit and once again ordered players whipped and beaten, this

964
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: time to such an extreme that he was reported repeatedly

965
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: to FIFA. They carried out an investigation, but Iraqtanni anything

966
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: had happened, and after FIFA's experts examined twelve players, they

967
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: found there was no evidence to support any of the

968
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: allegations against Ude and the team management.

969
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: Famous and honest, ethical FIFA concerned with human rights. Yeah,

970
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: so yeah, absolutely, I think definitely.

971
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: Stuff human rights, Yeah for sure. So earlier I told

972
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: you about Sharar al Hadithi, the famous player who was

973
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: beaten on the soles of his feet dragged across concrete

974
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: and then made to jump into sewage. He was one

975
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: of the players swept up in this, and he claims

976
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: the team wasn't inspected by FIFA until weeks after they'd

977
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: been beaten. He also claimed for the Mirror team captain

978
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: Ruddy Shanishal had been thrashed with an electric flex but

979
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: had been refused to tell FIFA what happened. Right that

980
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: another guy had been very recent and they saw injury,

981
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't say how he'd been injured. Now it

982
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: should be clear to but that does show that the

983
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: FIFA inspectors saw injuries on at least one player, according

984
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: to his account. Right, that is important to note. It

985
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,919
Speaker 1: should be clear to everyone that these athletes were loath

986
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: to tell FIFA what was really happening because their families

987
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: were cententially hostages of the regime. That sucks. But FIFA

988
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 1: definitely had evidence and should have known something was going

989
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: on with the Iraq.

990
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: I think FIFA should have saved the Like FIVA's not an.

991
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 3: Intern, they're not going to help them though, but they

992
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: should have said, you guys can't play in the in

993
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: FIFA games anymore, like you're out of FIFA.

994
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: I'll even go so farth to say, I'll hear a

995
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: number of arguments about what they should have done, but

996
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: what's undeniable is they did nothing right right right, And

997
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: I think that's I'm not going to say, I don't

998
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: know what would have worked best, but they don't do

999
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: fuck all right. They just continue acting like everything is fine.

1000
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: Is a normal yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a normal team,

1001
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, owner or whatever.

1002
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: It's just a coincidence that every guy on the team

1003
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: has these weird scars on his back.

1004
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just a weird little going culture, all these

1005
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: stories for former players who keep escaping the country. Yeah.

1006
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine, after Sharar escaped Iraq, he brought

1007
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: claims of abuse against Iraq's team back into the mainstream.

1008
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: FIFA was forced to address the situation again, and per

1009
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: the Mirror quote, FIFA said last week had considered the

1010
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: matter still as still closed unless Sharar was prepared to

1011
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: talk directly to it. Well, if he wants to report

1012
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: directly to us again, you know, maybe we'll reopen it.

1013
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, he didn't come to us. You know, there's

1014
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: just a bunch of articles about him saying this stuff.

1015
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: So because playing for Iraq in Iraq was so darn miserable,

1016
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: many of the best players in the country tried to

1017
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,959
Speaker 1: get hired for teams overseas. Anyone who managed this found

1018
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: themselves in the unhappy position of having to convinced ude

1019
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: husaying that they should be allowed to leave the country

1020
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: rather than stay. He was often willing to agree for

1021
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: sixty percent or so of a new player's salary. That's

1022
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: what he would take from these guys, who like went

1023
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: to play for European teams. Per an article in The Mirror,

1024
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: Janabi confirms this once I collected for ude a total

1025
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: sum of three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from players

1026
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: for just six months. He says, So it is doing

1027
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: pretty good grift here, you know.

1028
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 2: I mean, that's makes good money. He can get it.

1029
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: It also kind of I wonder if, well, maybe it

1030
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: was part of his grift. Im I just make it

1031
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 1: being a nightmare to play football in Iraq, the best

1032
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: players will get hired overseas and then I can take

1033
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: money from them. Like, I wonder how conscious a part

1034
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: of the grift that became for him.

1035
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it probably wasn't intentional the first time. But

1036
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 3: once it started happening. Once, once the first guy signed,

1037
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 3: once the first guy signed in Italy, He's like, you

1038
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: know what, yeah, this could.

1039
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: Be he found money. Yeah. So Uday's grifts in the

1040
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 1: latter years of Saddam's regime were legendary, as the BBC

1041
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: reported quote, UDA's criminal empire was involved in smuggling sanctioned

1042
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: goods such as oil and cigarettes and cocaine, alongside running

1043
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: a fast food restaurant chain called Super Chicken in an

1044
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 1: ice cream company called The Wave. He also headed television

1045
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: in radio stations, was chairman of the board of seven newspapers,

1046
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: and was at the helm of a rack's most successful

1047
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: sports club. Ude took particular pride and the fearsome image

1048
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: he cultivated and referred to himself as Abu Sarhan, the

1049
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: father of wolves, because he's like he's got his feed

1050
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,439
Speaker 1: eyen too. He's got like his little militia at this point,

1051
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: who wear like Darth Vader helmets. Literally they have like

1052
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: fake Darth Vader helmets that they never fight. They like

1053
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: they get there, they last like three seconds in combat.

1054
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: These guys immediately run.

1055
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: And he ran a chain of ice cream stores that

1056
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: for me is.

1057
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: The line he was a renaissance man. You know, he

1058
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: runs a football team, he tortures a football team, He

1059
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: runs an ice cream company. He tortures ice cream, gets sales.

1060
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: How many locations were there of super Chicken? And was

1061
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 2: it good?

1062
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: You know? I do want I do want to eat

1063
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: at Uda Hussein super Chicken. I want to eat UDA's

1064
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: forbidden chicken recipes.

1065
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 3: I need to track down a review of super Chicken

1066
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 3: because was he as good as he was at running

1067
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 3: a soccer team?

1068
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: Oh guess he was as good. Oh guess he was

1069
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: as good Molly.

1070
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: Delegating? Was he really involved in the chicken?

1071
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: From a food safety standpoint? I would hope he was

1072
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: delegating quite a lot, I trust to like, yeah, good

1073
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 1: at that? Yeah he has. There's a lot of sewage

1074
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: in the Uday husseying story, so I don't feel great

1075
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: about that chicken. Ude also extended his control in Iraqi

1076
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: sports to the national volleyball team, which he had imprisoned

1077
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: in the basement of the Olympic National Committee building, where

1078
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: he kept his torture dungeon in what he described as

1079
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: a motivational exercise to make sure the team really knows

1080
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: I mean business so I'm going to imprison them in

1081
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: the basement for a while.

1082
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: I mean, they would be really motivated to get out

1083
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: of there.

1084
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet that would motivate your volleyball team. Maybe

1085
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,919
Speaker 1: more volleyball teams should try this. Look, you took long.

1086
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: Ude Hussein's been ignored for his coaching wisdom, but maybe

1087
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: it's time we revisit him. You know, maybe this is

1088
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,959
Speaker 1: what could make your own personal pee wee volleyball team

1089
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: really really cross the limits. Create a torture dungeon and

1090
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: lock them in it.

1091
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: Depending on the dimensions of the pit, it could really

1092
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: motivate them to get better at jumping and leaping.

1093
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: Sure, exactly exactly, this could create a whole new generation

1094
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: of Olympic whatever that sport is where you jump and

1095
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,439
Speaker 1: there's a stick, the pole ball. We can make kids

1096
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: better at that. You know, maybe torture's not so bad

1097
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: an idea. Maybe we have, Like they just had the

1098
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: enhanced Games where all the athletes were on steroids, and

1099
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 1: actually they weren't particularly impressive. It kind of was sucked. Yeah,

1100
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: what if what about the torture games? All the teams

1101
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: worked the way Udais did. Everybody's just like, yeah, everybody

1102
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: has sepsis. It's just a hospital ward. That's the whole competition.

1103
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: So Uday continued trying to impress his father, leaning towards

1104
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: by this point, but kind of the later period of

1105
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: Saddam's regime, Saddam doesn't really want to be dictator as

1106
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: much as he wants to be a novelist an artist,

1107
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: and that's how he really wants to spend time. During

1108
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: kind of the latter years of his reign, Ude knew

1109
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: that he'd failed to earn his father's respect as a

1110
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: future dictator candidate, but he could still do it as

1111
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: a writer, and so in the last years of the regime,

1112
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: Uday got his PhD, publishing a four hundred page thesis

1113
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: titled The World after the Cold War, which was written

1114
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: by a guy Ude paid and printed en mass to

1115
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: be distributed around the country for the BBC quote. In it,

1116
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: Ude argues that American domination of the world stage will

1117
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: fade by the year twenty fifteen, and new superpowers such

1118
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: as Japan, China, and the European Union will challenge the

1119
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: United States's moral and economic position. A couple of interesting

1120
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: things twenty fifteen not bad honestly, on guessing the year, ude,

1121
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: you could have done worse, Like could have done worse

1122
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: up close. But in terms of the new superpowers being Japan, China,

1123
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: and the European Union, I don't know, man, that that

1124
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: might not be the specific list that had gone with,

1125
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: Like Japan especially is kind of a weird one. No

1126
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: shade to Japan. I just wouldn't really call it the

1127
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: new superpower in the wake of the US, you know, fading,

1128
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: nor the EU really again, nothing against them, that's just

1129
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: a weird way to anyway, It's not quite what happened.

1130
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not Uday's fall. It's the guy you paid.

1131
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: It's the guy you as fault. I do want a

1132
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: copy of food Aide's thesis because the cover apparently has

1133
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: like a picture of Saddam Hussein as Saint George slaying

1134
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: the dragon. Oh really, suck it up to your kid. Yeah,

1135
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: hopefully somebody out there has found one. Yeah. So in

1136
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, the United States invaded Iraq in

1137
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: April of two thousand and three. Yeah, I mean initially

1138
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: pretty good. The Saddam's regime did not last long, right,

1139
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 1: It was after the stuff afterwards that didn't go so well.

1140
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: In the immediate afterway math of the invasion, like April

1141
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: of two thousand and three, US Army soldiers found at

1142
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: the Olympic headquarters in East Baghdad Ude's old stomping grounds,

1143
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: a medieval torture chamber that was linked back to Uday.

1144
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 2: Was that the one the.

1145
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Iron Maiden, the Iron Maiden. Yeah, yeah, good stuff. Yeah,

1146
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 1: it's very fun. They also found, you know, his personal zoo,

1147
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: which had lions, cheetahs, and a bear. They found he

1148
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: only won there drug collections. Yeah, I think he had

1149
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: one bear. He had a lot of drugs. He had

1150
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: a lot of liquor. He was noted by the US

1151
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: soldiers who like found his home as having quote the

1152
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: biggest collection of naked women I'd ever seen. He has

1153
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: a massive, like porn printed out porn collection.

1154
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: To be fair, have those guys been to Clarence Thomas's house?

1155
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: No, No, Although Army Captain Ed Blanco of Montville, New

1156
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: Jersey said it looked like something out of the Playboy mansion,

1157
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: which is very funny. That's from a Washington Post article

1158
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: by Nico Price. To quote from that article. Among the

1159
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 1: photos were those of Jenna and Barbara Bush, President Bush's

1160
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: twenty one year old daughters dressed up very nice in

1161
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: evening clothes, Bolanco said, adding out the soldiers took them

1162
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: to protect the president. You know what's the funniest, actually funniest,

1163
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: that's actually funny. It's so so funny and just the

1164
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: it is very America in two thousand and three that

1165
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: like these America, We're gonna protect the president by getting

1166
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: the pictures of his daughters out of here. You know

1167
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: the fact that would wind up in a Washington Post

1168
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: article is extremely funny to me. Obviously, Uda and his

1169
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: brother are killed by US forces at a compound that

1170
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: they were inhabiting. I'm not gonna go through like it's

1171
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: not worth really going to a ton of detail about that.

1172
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: He's killed. And obviously his days is a soccer uh

1173
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: as a force of power within the world of professional

1174
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: soccer come to an end tragically.

1175
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 3: Not really loveday, I he would he couldn't he could

1176
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 3: have made those pictures of George Bush's daughter's naked.

1177
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta say the interviews blank, he would have

1178
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: been grocking hard. He would have loved groc the interview

1179
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: with that that Captain Bolanco about like what they found

1180
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: in UDA's house is endlessly entertaining. This is the Captain.

1181
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: There were dome pairing on French wines, uh, some thirty

1182
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: or forty years old, a lot of very good brandy,

1183
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: a lot of good whiskey. Blanka said. There were boxes

1184
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: of Cuban cigars that said Udai Saddam Hussein on them,

1185
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: one hundreds of them. My guy smoked them. He said.

1186
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: There were also this is the Washington Post. He said

1187
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: there were also six bags of heroin, but he didn't

1188
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: know how much they held. I'm gonna guess not all

1189
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: that heroin made it his way back to their bosses.

1190
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: If I know you, I don't know how much some

1191
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: of that heroin got done.

1192
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, not very much. Actually, it was a

1193
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: lot of bags with.

1194
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: Empty yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna yeah, it's one of

1195
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: those like yep. They found eight bags of heroin, and

1196
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: three bags were returned to custody at the base, and

1197
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: an entire bag of heroin was returned to the You know,

1198
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm imagining they're being shrinkage at several points here. Anyway,

1199
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: that's the Uday Hussein story. Well that's the story. That's

1200
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: not his this is not the whole uday who say story,

1201
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: This is Uda Hussein as a soccer team owner.

1202
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it looks like it looks like the Iraqi team.

1203
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 3: So they are in the World Cup again this year

1204
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: for their their second turn.

1205
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 1: Yep.

1206
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 2: I think they got crushed earlier today.

1207
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they made it back. That's that's what matters, right, Thanks,

1208
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: We'll be happy.

1209
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: Getting to the World Cup at all.

1210
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: Big deal is a big, huge deal.

1211
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: Even if you get out of spanked by Senegal the

1212
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 2: group stage.

1213
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: And it you know, it says a lot. I think

1214
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: you can obviously, Ude whose hand isn't the only setback

1215
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,919
Speaker 1: that Iraq has in terms of its football team. There's

1216
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: other things to go on in that country that they struggles.

1217
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: They've had other struggles.

1218
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 2: Non football related struggles.

1219
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that said, you know, it's really got I'm

1220
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: really happy for the country that their team is now

1221
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: without Uda made it back to the World Cup and

1222
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: is there again. That's great, that's that's hopeful for the future.

1223
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: You know, I want good things for Iraq. How you feeling, Molly?

1224
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: You know that was fun.

1225
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 3: Not the torture parts, not the sewage, in the in

1226
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: the wounds parts that that sucked for everybody, but uh.

1227
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: I mean overall, in terms of what you kind.

1228
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: Of presented to me today, one of my friends least

1229
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: likely to want sewage in an open wound, you know.

1230
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: Thank you the opposed to but a lot. I love

1231
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: a clean wud.

1232
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: I can tell we all do. That's why lightsabers are great.

1233
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 2: The things you could have presented to me today, I'm

1234
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: very pleased.

1235
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, good, Yeah, I thought I thought you'd enjoy

1236
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: Yude Hussein soccer team owner. Good stuff. Anyway, Molly your

1237
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: podcast Weird Little Guys people can and should and also

1238
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: legally musk listen to it, and you're committing a felony

1239
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: if you don't. Right after this podcast listen to Molly's.

1240
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: You know you could be shot. You probably can.

1241
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: I'll put you in the secret room I keep under

1242
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 2: my podcast.

1243
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: You're right, you're right. Molly's got a red room for

1244
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 1: people who don't listen to her podcast. Yeah, that's right,

1245
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: that's right. Anyway, Well, goodbye bye.

1246
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1247
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1248
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio

1249
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Full

1250
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: video episodes are Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,

1251
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday.

1252
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 2: Kit remind me of Netflix. You don't miss an episode.

1253
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe

1254
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel, YouTube dot com slash at Behind

1255
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: the Bastards.

1256
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: We love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,