WEBVTT - Pin (1988) 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.920 On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.960 women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.879 or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.240 best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:17.920 Happy birthday, Jamie. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:24.840 It's me pin my lips flapping, my lips flapping, my 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:34.320 teeth showing. Don't say anything. Oh oh oh, listeners, you're 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.239 in for it today. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.040 name is Jamie Loft. My name's Jamie loved this. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.519 My name's Gaitland Durande and. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.879 This sorry you should you should know. Actually behind me, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.159 I kind of have my pin my Barbie. I have 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.360 a my size Barbie that I've used on stage many times. Yeah, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.720 she's kind of my pin in that she's real and 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.200 she killed my parents and it was her. Had nothing 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.920 to do with me. It was her. Yeah, I would 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.440 have grocery shopping. That's one of the There are so. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:09.840 Many things with Leon in this movie. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.360 Room. Like Leon, we got to be a better liar. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.080 If we're going to be committing so many murders. 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.200 He's gonna be a better liar. His sister needs to 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.039 be more discerning. I would say it's really important not 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:24.200 to start blame her. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.000 I was like, let's start by blaming the victim, and uh, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.880 leave my friend Ursula alone. She's doing her best well. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.920 Coach to defessional casts. My name is Jamie pinn Loftus. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.920 Wow. My name's Kate pinn Durante. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:40.600 Wow. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:41.720 Yeah Wow. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.399 What a way to start a Monday. And this is 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.880 our podcast where we take a look at your favorite 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.240 or in this case, I think just my favorite movies 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.680 using an intersectional feminist lens. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.360 I'm not sure most people know about pin nineteen eighty eight. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.840 I mean, that's kind of why we're doing this, to 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:06.560 spread the good word. The pin pin exists. Imagine clapping 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.000 emojis between those words. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.160 Are there any pin Heads in the in the crowd? 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.520 Not that kind of pinhead. I don't like those ones. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.359 I like psychological horror pin Wait. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.480 I don't even know what pinhead refers to. I'm I 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.880 just know that there was a fake band in Back 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.519 to the Future called the Pinheads. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.720 But Pinhead, well, it's the main character in hell Raiser. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.880 The hell Raiser Ah that franchise, right, And you'll never believe. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.880 Why he's called that because he has pins in his 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:37.679 head because. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:39.600 He has pins in his head? Caitlin, what's the Bechtel test? 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.400 It is a media metric created by our good friend 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.560 Alison Bechdel. There's there's a lot of backstory behind it, 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.280 but we've we've just got to get into Pin today, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.760 so I'll do the abridged version. Sure, there are many 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.080 versions of the Bechtel test, but the one that we 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.600 use is, do two characters of a marginal gender have names? 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.200 Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.600 about something other than a man or a male? Coded? 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.760 Yeah, I would all Pin he him? Pin? 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.440 Is he him all the way down? Hear him? 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.839 Yeah? If you've seen I don't really think there's other 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.400 no other interpretations. Let's just leave it at that. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:25.800 Let's leave it at that. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.360 Some real heat him behavior coming from from Pin and 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.160 for sure, and also his various you know, if you 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.880 subscribe to the Pin Isn't real theory, all of his 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:45.440 ventriloquists are also men, toxic men, toxic toxic men. Absolutely, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:51.600 so Pin is an agent. He's a puppet of the patriarchy. Wow, yeah, yeah, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.400 So we are here to talk about the feminist implications 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.040 of the movie. Pin nineteen eighty eight. I think that 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.640 we both saw this movie under the while we were 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.119 not physically together, we were in community when we first 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.720 saw this. Yeah, what's your history with Pin? 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:14.360 You're referring to the annual twenty four hour horror movie 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:19.320 marathon aka Horror Thon that our friend Alex does every year. 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.640 I think we saw this during the Horrorthon that was 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.800 like four or five years ago. Okay, So for me, 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:34.080 I was only loosely paying attention as Pin was being 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:38.400 streamed before my very eyes, and so I had different 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.880 I had a different impression of it than is actually 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.760 the case. So when I rewatched it to prefer this episode, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.680 I was like, Oh, it's like it's like kind of 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.960 higher budget than I thought. I was remembering like student 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:53.600 film vibes, Like. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.719 No, I mean this was supposed to be a theatrical release, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:58.920 as it got kind of got the shaft. I mean 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:05.279 it definitely as TV movie and energy. Yeah, which makes 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.840 sense when you like, that's a lot of what this 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:12.039 director did. It's like Canadian like many, you know what 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.839 I should have done this year creating remlos Aar I 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.560 like many, Like many of my favorite movies, it is 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:24.080 basically a TV movie in vibes in I feel like 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.120 in the way that it's shot, in the way that 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.719 the music sounds, even the performances, it's like it's very 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.839 and I say this while feeling the performances in this movie, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.440 especially the two center well let's and let's throw a 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.360 pin in there. The three central performances I think are 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.400 really good, like kind of better than they have any 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.800 right to be. I agree, but it is like a 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.720 mellow drama. Everyone seems to know the movie they're in. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.560 It is a very intense. But the lead perform like Leon, 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.680 really he reminds me he's giving like young Robert Pattinson 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:56.520 to me. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:02.160 Sure, especially when he's playing a creep like Edward Cullen. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.200 A weird well, he's playing like a very stoic weirdo 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.640 and I just yeah. British Canadian actor David Hewlett, who 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:14.000 I guess is most famous for being in the Stargate franchise, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.000 which I have not seen, but he was also in 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.159 He's one of the villains in the Shape of Water, 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.120 which is a fave of mine. He's like one of 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.760 the corporate Cold War guys, so he's like a Del 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:29.440 Toro like all of these actors have like pretty pretty 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:34.480 cool resumes. I mean not to mention literally literally. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.560 John Locke of Lost fame. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:41.440 John Locke is in this movie, and he's maybe Terry O'Quinn. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.240 If he's gonna do one thing, it's play the weirdest 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:49.120 bitch in the movie, Like he is always the weirdest 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.200 bitch on screen. He's so good at it. Yes, I 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.920 just my god, Sorry, I'm already getting distracted by pen 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:58.440 so Yes horror thon. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.240 Yes, so we saw that you. I remember you really 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.640 latching onto this movie. I was not quite so enamored 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:06.120 by it. 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:07.960 Me and Bryants were really into it. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.240 Yes, for me, I think I don't remember like where 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.280 it was in the order of this again twenty four 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.040 hour marathon, so I might have been tired. I might 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.200 have just been kind of distracted, but I was sort 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.000 of checked out during Pin. But I do remember you 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:28.360 and our friend Bryant being like locked in, John locked in. 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.960 We were John locked in. And this is before I 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.720 found Lot, before I watched Lost. So now rewatching Pin 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.720 and knowing weird bitch John Locke is in it. Everyone. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.640 Check out my favorite John lock clip, which is him 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.120 in group therapy, yelling at a woman saying, you want 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.800 your thirty dollars back. I want my kidney back because 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.160 his father stole his kidney. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.080 Oh, I forgot about that. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.280 He's so funny, dude, He's so funny. He's the most 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.720 put upon character in all of television, and he's got 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.880 the scars to show for it because he's a weird, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:03.480 weird man. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.720 Yes, So anyway, that's my history with PIN. I had 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:08.880 never heard of it before that. 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:09.680 Neither had I. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.680 I've never seen it referenced since it is sort of 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.960 it's kind of lost media. It feels like it is 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.200 for free on YouTube, but otherwise you can't rent it 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:20.920 or stream it or anywhere. 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.080 I think it's like sort of one of those those 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.880 movies that's being like single handedly kept alive by like 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.880 horror fans, which is cool. Yeah, like Alex right, Alex. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.080 Yes, But yeah, that's that's my relationship to it, Jamie, 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:37.559 tell us more about yours. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.520 Well, it started at the very same horror thon. I 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.439 think it also had to do with, first of all, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.040 where I was at in my life and like what 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.160 I was doing and how much I was paying attention 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.640 because I don't expect you to remember this, because I've 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.120 never disclosed it, but this was this would have been 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.680 Horror on twenty twenty one when I was going through 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:01.080 a rather gnarly breakup and as I was watching horrorson 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.200 this year, I was repainting the walls in my old apartment. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.079 So two critical things, which is leading up to a 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.080 very embarrassing reveal. Two critical things about me getting really 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.480 locked in on Pin is Number one, my house was 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.400 full of paint fumes because I was repainting the house, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.160 being like I have to change my life. So first 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.720 of all, I was maybe a little bit high on 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.800 paint fumes. Number one. Number two, I was not fully 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.280 paying attention to some crucial shots in Pin. I missed 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.320 a few crucial shots in Pin, okay because I was 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.480 painting my bathroom at the time, which means that I thought, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.960 on this first viewing that Pin was real, and I didn't. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:54.120 I didn't realize Pin wasn't real. And that said, I 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.080 fully thought, because they don't. I mean again, and this 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.440 fads to like the netflixification of how we watch movie now, 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.319 because you are clearly given the information if you're looking 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.000 at the screen the whole time, like movies are supposed 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.520 to go, but I was just hearing Pin and I 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.559 was like, this is so wild. I love this real character. 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:20.200 There's a sentient medical dummy. Although I think that the 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.760 movie keeps you guessing about whether or not Pin is 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.480 real or slash sentient for a little while. It becomes 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.640 clear the further into the movie you get that Pin 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.600 is only seems to be talking and moving because of 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:43.160 ventriloquism and because of a live human people manipulating him 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.960 and his movements and things like that. But for a 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.199 little while, I feel like you're not totally sure one 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:49.880 way or the other. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.080 Well, there's one sequence in particular where I'm like, the 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:53.920 car cried the. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:54.960 Car, yeah exactly. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.720 Leon is certainly not in there, so I don't under Yeah, 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.559 there's one scene where and I think I was going 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.960 with that, but I think for like kind of every 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.079 other sequence, Leon's always. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.960 There Leon or the yeah or the dad. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.599 Something I thought was interesting, and this isn't even a criticism, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.720 is that the voice doesn't change for Pin, even when 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:19.800 the person being Pins ventriloquist changes. I think I like that. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.840 But anyways, I fully was high on paint fumes. I 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.320 thought Pin was real on the first viewing, But I'm 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.240 thrilled to report that I've seen it two or three 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.240 times since then and it's still so awesome. I mean, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.240 I think what I missed in. I mean, even if 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.959 you watch the movie Pin believing Pin is real high 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.280 on paint fumes, it is still a very intense psychological thriller. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.679 But once you know that he is being used a 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:51.080 ventriloquist dummy, the psychological thriller stuff really amps up. So Yeah, 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:58.080 and then Alex Jacob's iconic film editor of movies like 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:04.120 In a Violent Nature, In a Violent Nature too, Night Nurse, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:05.160 which just came out. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.800 Is there another one? Maybe Jamie my. 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:12.680 Movie that hasn't come out but hopefully will. But he's 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.000 I feel like he's because he programs this and is 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.800 also a horror fan. Who would know about Pin brought 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.840 Pin to the People in twenty twenty one. Yes, I 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.480 also own a copy of the book, which I considered 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.640 reading for this, but then I read that it really 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:33.160 leans into the incest subplot and decided I don't need 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.400 to read it. I don't need to read it. Actually, 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:42.360 there's enough of an incest subplot in the movie for me. Yeah, 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.320 it's it's a psychological thriller. These kids they never stood 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:52.559 a chance because their father was John Locke and so, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.480 but yes, I think I have like such an affection 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.120 for this movie. I think part of it is connected 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:00.920 to like how and I saw it. But I also 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.280 think it's like again, like you're saying, like better than 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.400 you would think like because it's basically lost Media. I 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.120 feel like that means either lost at media, Oh my god, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.440 sr John Locke, Oh my god. If Lost ever got lost, 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.920 I'd be pissed. I'm looking at my John Locke doll 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.200 over there. Wait what you know? 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.679 I see him? Do you have an I know? Okay, well, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.680 I already know how many dolls you have. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.520 I have a lot of dolls. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.080 The life size Barbie you have you famously have an 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:35.240 American girl doll boy looy. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.920 And two girls unfortunately and two girls like this is 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.480 John Locke. It's like a whoa little it's for kids. 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.400 And there's there's Hurley, Jack and Kate. Where's Sayed? You know, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.719 where's Sun? Where's a lot of good characters missing from that. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.640 But I but I bought it because John Locke is 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.280 my number one? Where's Walt? Where's Michael? Come on? Folks, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.559 where are the good characters making anyways? John Locke one 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:09.640 of our best men being Bitch's canon characters indeed. But anyways, Yeah, 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.120 like I think, because Pin is so hard to find, 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:13.840 you're like, either. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.880 It's a hard pin point, it's I'm. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.960 Really setting myself up with this. You would think that 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.760 it's like not good, but it is good. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.680 It is like better than you'd think. 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.200 Yeah, And I think it's doing a lot of like 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.200 horror tropes in ways that I like haven't really seen 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.320 come together quite in this way. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:38.880 So I may say, if. 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.440 You haven't seen Pin, I would recommend watching in a group. 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.320 Don't it's weird. Now we can both attest. It feels 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:47.920 weird to watch Pin by yourself. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.720 It does. And I would recommend before you listen to 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.960 the rest of this episode and hear the recap if 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.000 you have not already seen Pin. Oh yeah, don't get 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.120 it spoiled by the recap and our discussion. Just take 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:08.080 just take some time, pause this episode. Watch Pin on YouTube. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.400 It's an hour and forty three minutes or something like that. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.360 It's a pretty quick watch, and then come back and 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.080 listen to the rest of this episode, because like, it 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.040 gets so nuts so fast that I want people to 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.160 experience it for themselves. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.120 I agree, you deserve to have the optimal Pin experience. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.480 Will leave the YouTube link because like there literally is. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.440 I don't think that you could pay to watch this 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.920 movie if you wanted to, which feels kind of evil. 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.160 I want I want Pin to get residuals well. 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.920 We want to financially support Pin. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.360 I want Ursula, Ursula, God and Stan. Ursula and Stan 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.360 one iconic couple. Top ten most iconic couples in film. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.840 Ursula and Stan, Stan, I think is such an iconic character. 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:55.600 We'll get to stand. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.640 I'm a stand fan. I'm a stand Stan of Stan. 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.280 I was standing Stan. It's so and it's so hard 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.360 to get us on board with a boyfriend character, but 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.800 I'm like, Stan has some great boyfriend qualities, and that 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.080 every time we cut to him, he's trying to learn 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:10.640 how to read. 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.520 He's like, okay, he's trying to learn how to read 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.080 a language that is not his first line French, right, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:19.480 I think Italian? 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:20.200 Italian? 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:21.040 Okay. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.200 But I just was like Stan, He's he's a jock 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:29.080 with a dream, and he's so nice to Pin. It's 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:30.320 wild out nice. 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.960 At to Pin. People are too nice to Pin in 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.160 this movie. It's true, it's true, and therein lies the problem. 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.960 But you see, if you see Pin out in the streets, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.640 do not be nice to him. Kick his ass, dude. 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.400 He's the one, He's he's maybe the one. The one 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.760 guy that really has it coming is Pin. And then 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.360 when Pin get oh god, okay, truly stop. If you 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.280 haven't seen Pin, please stop, please and go watch and 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.480 watch it, because what I'm about to say is one 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.360 of the best parts of the movie. When Pin gets skin. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:06.320 Oh my god, Oh my god, it's so wild. I 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.760 remember it, do you remember. I'll never forget where I 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:11.879 was the first time I saw Pin with skin. It 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.120 was in a bathroom. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.640 Pink ingesting paint fumes. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.080 This is a great breakup. This is a great breakup 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.160 movie for reasons I can't quite articulate, because that has 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:23.800 nothing to. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:24.320 Do with the movie. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.640 But you just leave your body watching Pin. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.359 No, of course, Well, let's take a quick break and 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.359 give people the opportunity to go and watch Pin, and 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:46.840 then we'll come back for the recap. So a content 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:52.560 warning before we delve into the recap, for there are 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:57.480 mentions of rape and incest, which will also come up 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.560 in our discussion, so that listeners are aware of that. 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.520 Here's the plot of Pin. We open on some kids 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.479 who are outside of a house looking at something in 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:12.560 the second story window. 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.399 This which, mind you of a movie, because another one 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.520 of my favorite movies starts with this said. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.040 Oh wait, it does seem familiar, but I can't. This 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.439 just happens. Endpoint it again with that pun. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.520 This is how Casper begins. 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:35.240 Oh yeah, right, okay, weird. So these kids are looking 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.960 at something in the window. It might be a man 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.040 sitting very still, or it might be a dummy. We're 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.840 not sure. One of the little boys climbs up to 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.800 get a better look, and it's hard to tell exactly 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.159 what he's looking at. But then we see a face 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.760 and eyes that blink, and so we're like ah, and 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.720 the boys are scared off and run away. We cut 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:04.840 to fifteen years earlier. We meet the Lyndon family. The 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.400 father is doctor Lindon played by Terry O'Quinn aka John 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.080 Locke from Lost Ah. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.959 He's being weird. I will say I think they had 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.760 for particularly, I think for both of the siblings they 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.800 found appropriate young like baby Leon and adult Leon. I 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.560 think are equally creepy, which had to have been difficult 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.560 because that's a respect. That child is probably like fifty 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.119 years old. Now that's a very creepy kid. 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.919 Yeah for sure. Also, okay, so I didn't catch this 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.920 the first time, but we see the kids as two 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:48.040 different ages before they become teenagers, or at least Ursula 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.880 the sister, she's like maybe like a five year old 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.159 in a couple scenes, and then they age her up 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.880 and they have another actor who is probably like ten 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:00.760 or so. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.040 Yeah, there's some ethical I have some ethical questions about 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:09.199 how these kids are directed and what they're talking about and. 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.600 And the need. 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.399 Oh god, now's a good time to say that. In 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.240 the movie Pin nineteen eighty eight, getting horny is called 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.480 the need. Everyone calls it that. There's no other word 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:21.880 for it. 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.800 Yes, it reminded me of have you ever read The Giver? Yes, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.720 when they call like sexual desire stirrings, I think is 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:32.479 the term they use. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.960 Wow, I haven't thought about The Giver in a very 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:36.719 long time. That was one of my favorite books as 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:37.040 a kid. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.480 Same, same interesting, but yeah, they're like, oh, tween, kid, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:47.399 you're starting to feel sexual feelings. Those are stirrings, And 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.320 I remember reading that as a kid and being like, 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.960 oh my god, what the hell, what. 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.360 The hell it's it's a little bit nasty to call 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:01.480 it that, but if you get the immediately, this family 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:03.840 is the kind of family that would call it the 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:09.280 need versus yes anything. This family sucks so bad. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:13.240 They're all very creepy. So we meet the father, doctor Lindon. 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:20.439 He is super like uppity, in formal, and creepy. He 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:25.840 makes his small children Leon and Ursula do math before 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.920 they go to bed. Meanwhile, their mother, Missus Lindon, I'm 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:31.479 not sure if we ever get a first name for her. 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:36.800 She's also very like prim and uppity. She's obsessed with cleanliness. 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:38.200 She's also physically violent. 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.880 She's also physically and verbally abusive. Yeah, so this is 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:47.960 not a happy family. No. We cut to doctor Lindon's 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:52.880 medical office and while he is treating a child, he's 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:58.560 also talking to a life size medical dummy named Pin, who. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:03.440 We learn later is anatomically correct. Yes, and in the 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:07.560 pediatrician's office. I mean, it makes sense that a medical 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.719 dummy would be anatomically correct, Yeah, but it doesn't make 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.160 sense it would be in the pediatrician's office. 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.359 I don't know it was the eighties. I know, I 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:17.840 can say. 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:19.880 I was like, it's so yeah, you have to sort 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.360 of wonder, You're like, I mean, obviously, I don't think 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.680 it was ever normalized for an anatomically correct medical dummy 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:30.439 that speaks via ventral equism to be normalized in you know, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:35.640 Western society. But I have to imagine that creepy. I mean, 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.400 I think about like behavior that my pediatrician was doing 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.600 in the like late nineties, early two thousands, and you're like, hmmmm, 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.120 I probably would not fly today. I would not let 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.640 my child. You know, my doctor was weird. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.760 I feel like my doctor, my pediatrician, was pretty not weird. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.480 My pediatrician. I've been thinking about it a lot because 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.520 I just read essay about scoliosis and my pediatrician a 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.760 totally missed my scoliosis, which was so bad and advanced 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:09.720 that it's kind of shocking that he missed it for 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.280 what would have had to have been years. And then 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.200 when he when my gym teacher found it instead of him, 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.359 he was so embarrassed that he spent years just like 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.399 kind of freaking me out into like like telling me 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.520 I had various illnesses. I didn't have because he was 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.280 so like, yeah, he told he told me I had 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.320 he's he thought that I had more fan syndrome like 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:35.199 I got. I mean, I'm glad that like if he 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.480 suspected that, he sent me to get tested and like 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.320 all this stuff. But it just felt like he was 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.639 overcompensating for a clear failure and then sent me on 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.080 all these really scary tests that never ended up being anything. 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:50.679 But it just like, but he was like our family doctor. 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.320 All my cousins went to him too, and so we're 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:57.119 just like he has a Looney Tunes tie. He's probably 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.400 a good doctor. Anyways, he was. 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.640 Not okay, and neither is doctor Lindon. 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:06.720 Oh I mean, I guess I should be counting my blessings. Pin, 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:08.919 was it at least? Oh my god? 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:14.360 Right, yeah, be grateful, Jamie. So doctor Lindon is talking 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.840 to this medical dummy named Pin, and Pin is quote 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:24.280 unquote responding because doctor Lindon is throwing his voice and 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.680 doing ventriloquism to make it seem like Pin is talking 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:32.639 back to him. Also, doctor Lindon's children are in the 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:38.080 room as he's performing like a medical examination on a child. 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.439 And it doesn't seem like a child they know, not 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:42.360 that that would make it appropriate, but I'm like, if 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.600 it's a cousin, maybe, but like it's just that that's 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:46.400 not the situation. 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.360 Yeah, no, it's it's uncalled for any way you look 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:54.560 at it. So all this creepy stuff is happening, including 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:59.240 the way Pin looks and sounds, because he looks like 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.720 something out of a night I don't know if that's 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.040 just how medical dummies looked at the time. 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:05.520 But I think they went out of their way to 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:09.960 make him scarier because he has these like empty blue eyes, right. 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:15.200 But otherwise, like other medical dummies, they would basically look 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.680 the way a human would look if you removed their skin, 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:21.560 so you see like their muscles and stuff. 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:25.440 But he's also did you watch Breaking Bad and or 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:26.840 better call Saul, because I did not. 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:32.320 I've seen the first season and change of Breaking Bad, 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:36.560 But like many many TV series, even if they're good 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.639 and I'm enjoying them, I still fall off pretty quickly. 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:45.840 I just I just haven't seen it. But yeah, I'm 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:49.200 sure many of our listeners have, and so it's worth 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:55.000 mentioning that the voice actor for Pin is one Jonathan Banks, 0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.720 who plays a huge character on both Breaking Bad, and 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:04.360 better call Saul Hitman and fixer Mike Erman Trout. Okay, 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:07.159 so he's been in I think like basically every breaking 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.399 bad thing you could possibly be in. He was nominated 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:12.960 for an Emmy for this role a number of times. 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.440 He was nominated for a SAG Awards Saturday Awards. So anyways, 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:20.840 if you saw any breaking bad media, I'm assuming that 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.399 you would recognize this actor and you would be shocked 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:26.760 to find that he also played Pin. I was able 0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:30.720 to find an interview, but like, there's so little meat. 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:34.360 So a few people have acknowledged they're in Pin. David Hewlett, 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:36.960 you cannot find a single acknowledgment, and he does a 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.440 lot of interviews. He pretends he doesn't see Pin, even 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.880 though he's giving the performance of a lifetime whatever whatever. 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:47.880 But Jonathan Banks did give one errant interview about Pin, 0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:50.080 and he was like, I don't remember really doing that, 0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.760 but I never got any residuals were in my residuals 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.280 And it's like bad bad news, Pal Pin didn't really 0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.280 come out. Oh, I think residuals are on the way. No, 0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:05.080 they should give him YouTube ad rup. How can we 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.280 get Mike? How can we get breaking bads? Mike erman 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:10.320 Trout paid for Pin. I think The Pin Boys is 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:11.480 so effective and. 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:17.800 So very creepy. Yes, yeah, And despite Pin sounding and 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:22.840 looking extremely creepy, the children think that Pin is cool. 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:26.680 Especially Leon is really into Pin. 0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:31.159 Yeah, and the children, I mean Leon, I feel like 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:36.359 Pin is the only quote unquote adult sized creature that 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:42.080 seems to show Leon any patience, even though I wouldn't 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:43.360 say kindness. 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:49.200 Feels like a stretch, right because Pin isn't like warm. No, 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:52.880 He's very clinical and again creepy. 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.960 Yeah, but he isn't like cruel, which is how Leon's 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.240 parents are. So I think that he gets attached for 0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:00.600 that another reason. 0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:05.760 Right, So Leon is obsessed with Pin, and the kids 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:10.960 have a quick conversation with Pin, and once again it's 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:16.080 pretty clear that doctor Lyndon has Pin quote unquote respond 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:22.640 via ventriloquism, and Penn tells the children that they shouldn't 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.800 be talking to him when their father isn't around, and 0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:29.800 this is something that Leon really like takes to heart. 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.680 One day, Leon goes into his dad's office to talk 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:40.360 to Pin, partly because Pin seems to be Leon's only friend. 0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.560 The kids at school don't like Leon, and they bully him, 0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:49.640 So Leon goes to confide in Pin, but then a 0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:52.120 nurse is about to come into the room, so Leon 0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:58.640 hies and then watches as the nurse has sex with Pin. 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:05.440 This scene is so it's wild weird. It's one of 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:08.200 It's not the first thing that happens in Pin that 0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:10.760 makes you go yuck, what, but it is the first 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.520 thing where you're just like wow, truly, anything could happen 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:18.160 in the movie Pin, because this nurse spoiler alert, we 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:21.320 never see her again. The fact that she fox Pin 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:24.360 is not relevant to the plot at all. It's just 0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:26.720 something that, like, I mean, I guess the way that 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:29.760 it I wouldn't say it moves the plot forward, except 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:34.560 that like it does, I guess further complicate Leon's relationship 0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:40.440 to sexualourages, how he conflights various things because he doesn't 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:42.120 have an adult in his life to have an honest 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.680 conversation with him about this. But the way they choose 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:48.240 to get that information Cross is just by saying, so 0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:50.280 this nurse we met at the beginning of the movie, 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:53.960 who don't get comfortable, she will not be coming back. 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:58.400 She fox Pin on her break, She fox Pin at 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:02.280 work at work on her break, and that's why it's 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:08.080 important that Pin is anatomically correct, because he is this 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:09.600 nurse's sex doll. 0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:16.840 Apparently Pin has a constant erect penis. Otherwise I'm not sure. 0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.280 I guess I don't know enough about medical dolls to 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.240 be like, I miss Yeah, I guess you don't get 0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:26.560 them aroused. Wow, I didn't think about that. That's another 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:31.120 argument for Pin real? Right if Pin has a boner 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:34.640 unless but then it's like, if Pin is real, he's 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:36.400 also getting assaulted. 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:39.480 Right is Pin consenting to this? Can? 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:40.120 Pin? Can? 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:45.120 Can? Alternatively, if we go with the read that Pin 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:52.600 is not alive, which is okay, some dissenters may make 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:56.080 this claim. Perhaps the sex that the nurses having with 0:30:56.160 --> 0:31:01.600 Pin is not penetrative. Maybe he's just sort of rubbing, 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:06.200 rubbing up on Pin, rubbing up on Pin, rubbing pins 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.960 flaccid anatomically correct penis, that's against her. 0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:13.920 We don't know, and it's we don't know. I I 0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:17.640 think you know the nurse. I can't say nurse innocent 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:20.640 necessarily because you shouldn't be having sex with Pin at 0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:25.360 a pediatrician's office with the door ajar. I might add, also, 0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:28.720 she does not close the door, so I would say 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:32.600 that is a bit diabolical. I cannot stand that this 0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:34.040 is a woman's wrong. 0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.240 I think this is a woman's wrong. 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:38.960 Having sex with Pin not my business. Having sex with 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.280 Pin at work and you worked at a pediatricians office 0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:44.680 and the door's open, Well that's good, that's a red flag. 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:51.320 Okay, seek treatment, yes, And Leon is witnessing this all happen, 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:56.760 and he seems quite horrified, understandably, so then we cut 0:31:56.800 --> 0:32:01.640 to Ursula's birthday. Pin has gone her a present as 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:05.600 if he is one of the family. Oh my god, and. 0:32:05.600 --> 0:32:07.680 It's so thoughtful. I love I don't know why this 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:10.719 line stuck with me. But when Leon goes, oh, he's like, 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.160 this is the exact kind of present Pin would get 0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:15.760 because he's just like Pin is such a classy, a 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:16.560 classy guy. 0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:18.360 Oh he is Pin's number one fan. 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:20.120 Penn has taste. 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.320 And then that night Leon and Ursula are talking. She 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:30.160 insults Pin, so Leon strikes her, and then their mother 0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:37.640 catches them with a magazine that contains nudity and she's appalled. 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:42.920 The next day the kids get the sex talk, but 0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:46.320 guess who it's from. It's from Pin. 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.760 Unfortunately from Pin. Why did they get the talk from 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.720 Pin and why well, I think this is this brings 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:55.520 up a lot of questions about the doctor character. I 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:59.960 think that the doctor character it's interesting and I'm using 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.360 the word interesting liberally here, and I don't it's tricky 0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:06.120 because it's like this movie and also like a lot 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:09.760 of movies in this genre, like the way that that 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:14.240 horror film address abuse can sometimes be like overt right, 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:18.520 but I think that this movie kind of it's just 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:21.200 the stuff. There's a lot of questions left with the doctor. 0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:26.080 I think that like the doctor is sort of using 0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:29.680 Pin as a grooming tool to some extent here, but 0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:32.880 also it seemed like I think, at least towards his daughter, 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:35.920 I think he behaves very inappropriately towards his daughter with 0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:38.880 regards to her body, like especially when she gets older, 0:33:38.920 --> 0:33:42.280 but I also think when she's younger, like the way 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:48.360 that he talks to the kids about their bodies is inappropriate, 0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:52.600 and that that's like a behavior that Leon repeats toward 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:55.960 Ursula later in the movie, like talking with talking to 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.360 Ursula about her body and her autonomy in a very 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:01.800 I mean with Leon, it gets pretty extreme, but like 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:06.400 in a very invasive and shamey and inappropriate way, but 0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:09.240 I was kind of surprised at how and maybe people 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.480 are like, Jamie, your brain has officially died, but like, 0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:17.640 I'm surprised at how kind of like not banging you 0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:19.760 over the head with it, they are in the father's 0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:22.600 behavior because you're so focused on how weird Pin is 0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:26.400 conceptually right, but like, what he's having Pins say is 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.200 so creepy, and it's something that I don't think an 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:32.000 adult man could get away with saying. Not to say 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:35.000 that giving your children the talk is creepy. Obviously it 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.799 isn't it's the way he's doing it. When he's says it, 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:39.839 and then he says, take the towel off my lap. 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:44.040 You're like, that's not how that goes. And also does 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:48.920 anyone hose Pin downy Pins esexually active dull. 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:52.160 Pin has juices on him from the nurse. 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:54.880 Oh my god, yes, it's well. 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:59.640 I also think that the movie frames the mother character 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:06.360 as more overtly abusive because she strikes her son. She 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.200 I read her as just being sort of more overtly 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:11.799 abusive versus. 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:15.080 Yeah, certainly physically. Yeah, But I also think that the dad, Yeah, 0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.800 the dad is abusive in again, like in a more 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.040 shades of gray than you would expect in a movie 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.719 like this, Right, the dad is definitely I mean, they're 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:27.399 both emotionally abusive towards their kids, but like their dad 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.200 is emotionally abusive in this very and then I think 0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.359 you could argue he's physically abusive, but in this very 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:38.600 like detached way where the mother's abuse comes through a 0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:42.640 lot I think, like just through anger and rage, but 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:46.200 the dad's abuse, I do. And maybe I'm like overstating. 0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:49.160 I don't want to like use this word irresponsibly, but 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:51.040 I do feel like Penn is kind of being used 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:54.160 to like groom the children to think about their bodies 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:57.400 a certain way. I agree that entitles their father to 0:35:57.440 --> 0:35:58.080 their bodies. 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:02.439 Yes, yes, I also think that the ways in which 0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:07.200 the dad character is abusive was very normalized for the 0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:10.120 time and might not have even been read as abuse 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.600 for audiences who were watching this in the late eighties. 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:16.439 Oh God, I have to believe that my dear friend 0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:20.719 Terry o'quinnin was aware. But this scene is also interesting 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:25.880 because this is where Ursula the smartest person in the movie, 0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:28.960 and this is the scene that I guess I was 0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:32.399 painting and not looking at the screen because you can 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:38.080 see John Locke clearly being ventriloquist and Ursula noticing it 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:41.360 and then turning back to Pin and engaging. But the 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.760 way that Ursula engages with Pin is out of fear 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:49.399 versus belief. And then that's like something that remains true 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:53.160 for the rest of I don't know, who knows, I 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.400 guess the rest of her life. You see how Pin ends. 0:36:57.719 --> 0:37:01.360 And just you wait, listeners, but you should have already 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:02.719 watched it. You should already know. 0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:05.920 If you're still here, you we trust the And also, 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:08.239 oh my gosh, wait, this would be so fun if 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:11.920 you watched Pin on YouTube, leave a comment saying the 0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:13.080 Bechtel has brought me here. 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:14.720 Oh a comment on YouTube? 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:18.360 Yes, yes, I want to see. Yes, please, Let's let's 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:21.800 get the Pin video and let's get engagement up. Halloween's 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:23.759 right around the corner. We need people watching Pin. 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:28.759 Yes, yes, oh okay. So the kids are getting the 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:33.720 sex talk from Pin. He tells them about the urge 0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.680 people get to have sex, and we will talk more 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:43.520 about this scene in our discussion. But that's the vibe 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:46.960 of the conversation. And then Pinn is like, look at 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:53.359 my genitals, and afterward Leon and Ursula talk about kind 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:56.040 of what just happened, and it seems as though Ursula 0:37:56.200 --> 0:38:01.080 is more curious and comfortable talking about sex ruality, while 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:05.000 Leon seems much less comfortable with it. 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:08.799 Yeah, which is another interesting, like it's hard to put 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.200 yourself in like nineteen eighty eight mindset, because I think 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:14.279 that there's a read of Ursula's behavior early on that 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:17.640 is like a very normal curiosity for a young girl 0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:20.200 to have, and that is the intent of how it 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:22.279 was written. And then I think there's another read of 0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:25.319 it is like she is like hyper sexual and this 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.400 is abnormal. I'm not really sure what what read the 0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:30.879 movie intends you to take, but I like that both 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.759 are available. I think, well, just because I like the 0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:36.839 movie PIN, I want to say that it's presented as 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:41.040 normal because Ursula is like our final girl and kind 0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:45.600 of the survivor. Like I think that if she and 0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:47.800 we've all watched Pins, so this is safe to say, 0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:50.600 if she like died in a horrible way, I feel 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:52.280 like the other read is more. 0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.320 Likely, right because it would probably seem like the movie 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.520 is punishing her for having sexual. 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:02.719 Needs exactly need exactly Yeah, Yeah, but she I mean, 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:05.520 she is punished for having the need. But then our. 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:08.320 Foot by her brother, not by the movie. 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:12.520 Yes, that is true, And she meets She's she meets 0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:14.799 the only nice movie boyfriend I've ever seen. She meets 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:17.440 a sweety pie stand the man, a little sweetie, I 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:17.959 love Stan. 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.680 Yeah, yes, okay, so the kids have gotten the sex talk, 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:25.680 and then we cut to a few years later. Leon 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:31.760 and Ursula are now teenagers. Leon is super straight laced. 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:35.359 He seems to take after his parents quite a bit. 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:37.960 He's got kind of a proud boy haircut, let's be honest. 0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:42.400 For sure, Yes, he's like wearing a suit to school 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:46.880 kind of thing. But Ursula, she seems to be a 0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:52.000 proud slut. She is sexually liberated and she's wearing it proudly. 0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:57.360 And Leon finds her having sex with a guy in 0:39:57.800 --> 0:39:58.640 a car, but. 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:00.839 We also know that she's being bullied for it. 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:04.120 True. Yes, yes, yeah, there's like graffiti on the lockers 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.480 because saying that she's easy or whatever. 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:12.520 Girls and women famously can't win, right yeah. 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.799 Yes, anyway, Leon discovers her having sex in a car, 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:20.279 so he intervenes, beats up the guy, and then ruthlessly 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.879 slut shames Ursula and basically says, like, if you ever 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:27.720 have sex again, you can forget that I'm your brother. 0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:31.480 He's like threatening to disown her, and so she promises 0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:35.239 not to do it again, but uh oh, it's too late. 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:41.040 She is pregnant. Ursula reveals to Leon that she believes 0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:44.239 that she is pregnant, and they debate whether or not 0:40:44.320 --> 0:40:47.600 they should tell their father or go to a different 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:51.719 doctor in town, or how to maybe keep this under wraps. 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:55.320 But as in all things, Ursula is just absolutely trapped 0:40:55.440 --> 0:41:00.680 in this web of horrible men, and Leon pertally correctly 0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:02.400 points out that they live in a small town and 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:04.520 it would get back to her father anyways, and. 0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:07.200 So they should just tell him, right, because I guess 0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:09.600 the doctors in this town don't give a shit about 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:11.440 hippa violations. 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:13.920 I mean, that is definitely true because that happened to 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:16.759 when my mom. That happened to my mom when she 0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.400 got an abortion in the eighties, where a doctor violated 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:24.840 hippa roles. So I do think that that concern is 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.600 well placed, Yeah, for sure. But then it's like, oh, 0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.080 now I have to get an abortion from fucking John 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:33.879 Locke this and po and pinh my god. 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:37.000 Okay, so yes, here's what happens. Because they don't know 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:40.439 exactly what to do, Leon suggests they go to Pin 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:45.120 for advice, and Ursula is like, uh, that's not going 0:41:45.239 --> 0:41:50.319 to work. Pin won't slash, can't talk when our father 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:53.040 isn't there. But Leon is like, no, no, no, no, 0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:57.719 Pin is going to help us. So they go to 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:00.760 their dad's office and talk to Pin, and it seems 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:04.000 at first like Pin is not going to respond because 0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:09.759 doctor Lindon is not there ventriloquizing him, but then twist, 0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:14.560 Pin talks to them in his creepy voice. So this 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:16.919 is where we're starting to be like, Okay, is Pin 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:23.719 sentient or is it Leon throwing his voice and ventriloquizing 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:24.960 and Pin. 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:29.560 Ursula is pretty sure it's the latter. Yes, poor Ursula. There. 0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:31.960 Ursula is always in a horrible situation, and then Pin 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:34.680 comes in and makes it twenty times worse, like. 0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:39.839 It just yeah. So Pin tells them that Ursula should 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:43.440 definitely see a doctor if she is pregnant. 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:48.640 Soles Pin, she wouldn't have known that otherwise, right, So. 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:52.400 Ursula and Leon end up telling their father, and then 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:57.880 doctor Lindon gives his own daughter an abortion, presumably a 0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.080 surgical abortion via her vagina. 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:05.960 She's so I don't I don't know where to begin. 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:08.520 It's it's so clear that like this is, but this, 0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:10.560 this I feel like is I don't mean to sound 0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:13.279 callous by saying payoff, but like I think does sort 0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:17.120 of pay off on how the doctor talks to his 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:19.799 kids about their bodies earlier, so that by the time 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:24.040 this happens later, he feels very comfortable asserting autonomy and 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:27.120 control over his daughter's body in a way that feels 0:43:27.400 --> 0:43:29.480 very inappropriate. 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:32.040 Because he also slept shames her before performing. 0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:35.239 Everyone slut shame a portion. Yeah, she doesn't even I mean, 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:37.480 we have no reason to believe that a conversation with 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:40.319 her mom would go well. It seems like we're led 0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:42.239 to believe it would go worse than any of the 0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:46.400 other conversations. But she doesn't even get the opportunity to 0:43:46.520 --> 0:43:49.799 consider it. Like, both her brother and her father are 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:52.640 like that, can't. We're protecting you by slut shaming you 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:54.960 and putting you in this awful position, which is just 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:57.640 yeah horrible. 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:03.000 Uh Okay. So sometimes passes after the abortion, and one 0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:08.959 night their father catches Leon asking Pin for advice, and 0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:12.719 his father is horrified that Leon is talking to Pin. 0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:15.920 It looks like he catches it. That whole scene plays 0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:18.040 out like he's been caught having sex, which I thought 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.719 was like very like a fun directorialist raice where it's 0:44:21.719 --> 0:44:25.560 like he walks in on Leon and Pin basically yeah, 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:27.640 and it's like get out of here, you slut. 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:28.279 Yeah. 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.760 He's basically like, Pin is mine. You can't have him. 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:33.160 That's my dirty boy. 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:38.200 So he sends Leon home and then doctor Lindon and 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:43.000 his wife speed off to some conference or something. It's 0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:47.000 it's very urgent and they have to get there on time. 0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:50.279 They can't be late. Yeah, and doctor Lindon brings Pin 0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:51.279 with them. 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:55.040 He says, curtains on Pin, like mm hmm. Yeah. 0:44:55.080 --> 0:45:00.000 But because doctor Lindon is driving so recklessly, he crashed 0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:04.760 the car and it's maybe because he's distracted by Pin, 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:09.359 or that Pin does something to cause the accident. It's 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:12.880 all very murky here to your point earlier of like 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.840 there is Pin sentient? What's happening? 0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:18.520 This is as close as we get to being invited 0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:22.319 to believe Pin is sentient, I think, But like they 0:45:22.360 --> 0:45:24.520 do add An, I wonder if it's ad R two, 0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:27.279 Like the mom is like, oh my god, why are 0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:30.160 you driving so fast? And then she turns around and 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:32.920 she's Pin and she's like ah. Then he's like he's 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:35.360 like he just well, I took the quarter too hard, 0:45:35.480 --> 0:45:38.040 Like they give you an explanation as to how Pin 0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:41.320 could have been setting up, but you're just like, I 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:45.480 don't know if Pin is real. Then I also love 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:48.080 the movie. There's no version of Pin that I'm like, 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:49.800 this movie sucks. 0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:53.759 Right right and again this scene is like, what are 0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:57.400 you suggesting? Because after this it starts to become clearer 0:45:57.440 --> 0:46:00.560 and clearer that Pin is not and has never been. 0:46:00.960 --> 0:46:05.640 Cindi in so but this scene really complicates things. In 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:10.239 any case, doctor Lindon and missus Lindon die in the 0:46:10.280 --> 0:46:14.800 car accident. There is a funeral, Leon and Ursula's aunt 0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:18.800 Dorothy tell them that she's going to come and stay 0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:22.520 with them for a while to care for them now 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:24.600 that their parents have passed away. 0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:28.360 I love that. I love Aunt Dorothy for many reasons, 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:30.720 one of them being I also read that this movie 0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:33.520 was shot absurdly out of order, to the point where 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:38.880 the actress playing Ursula, whose name is Cindy Preston, but 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:43.480 she she had to like keep the storyboards with her 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:45.920 whenever she was performing, because they would just have them 0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:49.880 jumping around so wildly, like in the space of a day. Anyways, 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:52.759 the actor playing Aunt Dorothy is not saying Leon's name 0:46:52.800 --> 0:46:59.279 correctly the whole time. She's just Leyon Layon because she's 0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:00.279 so she's so. 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:01.919 Fancy, so chic. 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:07.560 You're not eating your food, Leon, Oh she's cooked. 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:11.719 She's dead. Yeah. So before she moves in, Leon and 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.600 Ursula are alone in the house and Ursula wakes up 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.360 in the middle of the night to discover that Leon 0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:20.919 is talking to Pin. That like he has brought Pin 0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:23.200 home and they're having a conversation. 0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:25.359 He's pinterested, he's. 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:30.360 He I get it too, Okay, I love it. It's good. 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:35.000 Thank you. Also, Leon has dressed Pin in a suit, 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.840 and honestly he should have put him in a pinstripe suit. 0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:41.799 But that would have been Leon doesn't have a sense 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:43.960 of humor like that, and it comes to Pin and 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:47.280 also in his life when we get to hit Leon's poetry, 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:52.359 oh god, that is I think viewed in the right way, 0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:59.520 a like sketch, like it's so fucked up. Yeah's poetry imminent. 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.640 But in the meantime Pinn is now wearing a suit 0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:08.680 I think it's the late doctor Lindon's clothes, and Leon 0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:12.799 insists that Pin is part of the family, more so 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:18.920 than Aunt Dorothy, who Leon ominously says she's not gonna 0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:22.440 stay with us for very long because she's going to 0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:24.879 realize that she's not wanted here. 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:29.160 And also Pen needs his own room, so yeah, Pin's 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:33.719 slumming it in the attic and that's not okay now. 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:38.920 Ursula meanwhile, is very freaked out by Pin and doesn't 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:43.920 want him around, but Leon reassures her that Pin is fine, 0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:47.200 he's one of us, He's part of the family, and 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:50.799 then Aunt Dorothy moves in. Leon is being very rude 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:54.880 to her. Also, the conversations with Pin that he's having 0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:59.760 are getting creepier and creepier. Penn's voice is also starting 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:05.520 to say even creepier. So things are not going well here, 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:10.000 certainly not. One night, Aunt Dorothy wakes up to discover 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:14.280 that Pin is in her bed and like slowly sitting upright. 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:17.960 She tries to run out, the door is locked, and 0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:23.359 then she collapses and dies, presumably from a heart attack. 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:26.359 Yes, which is foreshadow She's like, maybe being here will 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:27.800 help my heart Leon. 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:30.600 Yeah, it doesn't. 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:33.879 It's also implied. I think that I read that this 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.399 she's given slightly more of an arc in the book. Okay, 0:49:38.440 --> 0:49:42.120 but unfortunately it seems like, you know, Ursula, it's kind 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.279 of hard to I think Ursula's it seems like she's 0:49:44.680 --> 0:49:47.480 okay with her being around because it protects her from 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:52.160 Pin being front and center. But it is also clear 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:56.760 that like every potential guardian or like ally that Arsula 0:49:56.760 --> 0:50:00.560 comes into contact with prior to meeting Stan, she has 0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:03.520 an ulterior motive where she wants the house and she 0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:07.120 like wants to sell their stuff and like wants access 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:08.080 to their money. 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:09.640 Sort of like Count oll Off. 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:12.840 She's I mean, she's not Count O. I feel like 0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:16.440 there is a Count all Off energy about this, but 0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:18.600 like but yeah, she's like when she's like, oh, keep 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:21.120 the furniture covered, it's so valuable. I guess I was 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:23.520 getting the feeling that she wanted to stick around long 0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:26.719 enough to like get stuff. Sure, she also doesn't seem 0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:30.600 to be mourning her her bitch sister, not really no, 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:33.520 which is like, okay, you know she wasn't a great lady, 0:50:33.600 --> 0:50:35.120 but anyways. 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:37.680 Aunt Dorothy, she's got issues of her own. 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:40.160 Yeah, and she'll know she will never resolve them. 0:50:40.080 --> 0:50:43.040 Because right, yeah, not the least of which she she 0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:47.880 she got killed by pin pin induced heart attack. And 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:51.239 then and then Leon pops out from behind Pin. So 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:56.919 it seems as though Leon was controlling Pin maybe, but again, 0:50:56.960 --> 0:50:59.560 I feel like we're still not totally sure at this point. 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:04.279 Yeah, I which again, I'm like, I worked for me. 0:51:04.760 --> 0:51:08.200 If you're high on paint fumes and aren't really paying attention, 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:11.600 you're like Pin is a real guy, for sure. Yeah, sure, 0:51:11.840 --> 0:51:13.120 he's my friend. Okay. 0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:16.839 So Leon brings Pin back down from the attic and 0:51:17.280 --> 0:51:21.200 moves him into the room that Aunt Dorothy had been 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:24.960 staying in, and the next thing we know, Leon has 0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:30.320 put Pin in a skin suit, which you alluded to earlier. 0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:35.080 Pin Pin skin reveal. I will never forget it is 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.719 so like it is a it's a great it's such 0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:42.560 a great production design job too, because it's really hard 0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:46.320 to say whether the skin makes him worse or better. 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:49.920 To like, I think he just looks equally scary, but 0:51:50.000 --> 0:51:51.480 it just like a totally different. 0:51:51.160 --> 0:51:55.400 Way, right right. I I think I'm gonna land on 0:51:55.440 --> 0:51:59.600 the side that Pin looks even creepier than he because 0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:04.960 before least Tea resembles, you know, a medical dummy, which 0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:08.600 you might see in the real world. Pin in skin 0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:13.560 looks like it's not okay. Nothing you've ever seen before. 0:52:14.239 --> 0:52:15.160 It's not okay. 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:18.279 It's not okay. And also, I mean, this movie is 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.279 not being subtle about what's going on with Leon. He's 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:26.520 wearing John Locke's clothes. I'm so curious how he did 0:52:26.560 --> 0:52:29.320 the skin situation. I'm like, I assume here that was 0:52:29.360 --> 0:52:31.759 a solo job. You can't really like get on. 0:52:31.840 --> 0:52:35.399 Task rabbit for that, right, right? Did he make it? 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:40.759 Did he buy it somewhere to know what is going on? 0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:45.919 Either way, Ursula is like, what the fuck is this? 0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:50.440 And Ursula She's like, yeah, sure, A likely thing for 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:53.040 Leon to do is put skin all over Pin. 0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:56.840 M hm. And this leads to a fight between Ursula 0:52:56.920 --> 0:53:02.920 and Leon. Leon again, do any thing? Oh no, and 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:05.920 he threatens to kick Ursula out if she does not 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:09.920 accept Pin as being a member of the family, so 0:53:09.960 --> 0:53:11.040 she sort of has no choice. 0:53:11.120 --> 0:53:13.800 Does he have the right to do this? I honestly 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:17.000 am not sure because I'm like, unless their parents were like, 0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:18.799 we're giving everything to Leon, I'm like, can. 0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:21.280 You even do that? Anyways, I don't know, well, because 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:24.640 she's she's a miner, she's a oh. 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:27.399 Maybe that's it, and Leon is canonically eighteen. We find 0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:29.120 out that he's he's an adult. 0:53:29.040 --> 0:53:30.600 Right do we? I forge we do? 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:33.799 Okay, Okay, we do, okay, so actually that does make sense. 0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:39.520 Okay, Well, anyway, things seem to calm down a little 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:43.440 bit after this, and this is when Ursula meets a 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:45.240 nice young man named Stan. 0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:48.759 She also gets a job. I really love like the 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:53.600 moments where like Ursula has like autonomy or like tries 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:55.719 to exert control of her life even though she doesn't 0:53:55.760 --> 0:53:59.279 have any opportunities. But like, yeah, she gets a job 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:02.759 at the library. She's really excited about it, and that's 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:04.160 where she meets Stan. 0:54:04.920 --> 0:54:08.319 She meets Stan. We can call into question because it's 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:12.200 established that Stan is a college student and we know 0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:16.000 that Ursula is I think sixteen sixteen. 0:54:16.239 --> 0:54:16.479 So. 0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:20.680 I mean, yeah, I guess I'm not going to comment 0:54:20.719 --> 0:54:25.520 on that. That's that's a tricky one. But in any case, 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.080 it's not an egregious age gap, is what I'll say. 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.480 No, because it's he's maybe a freshman. It seems like 0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:33.080 he's the same age. 0:54:32.960 --> 0:54:35.359 I was gonna say, it seems like their age gap 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:39.200 is small enough that I'm just particularly in Ursula's case, 0:54:39.280 --> 0:54:42.880 I'm like, I'm not gonna take Stan from her. I 0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:45.759 cannot good conscience take the first person to be nice 0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:48.640 to Ursula in her entire life in a sincere way. 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:53.520 Yeah, from her right. So he approaches her at the library. 0:54:53.719 --> 0:54:57.520 He has a little crush on her. Ursula tells Leon 0:54:57.600 --> 0:55:03.000 about it, and he creepily says, well, it's no wonder 0:55:03.360 --> 0:55:07.520 You've become a beautiful young woman, and you're like, give 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:11.080 it a rest man, and it'll get worse again. 0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:14.080 Wait till the poetry, Wait till he which reminded me 0:55:14.160 --> 0:55:16.239 of a movie that I should have put on my Matreon. 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:19.000 Our listeners would hate it, but it would be really fun. 0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:21.759 Get well, I'll get to it when we do the 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:22.520 poetry part. 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:26.960 Okay, got it? So Stan asks Ursula out to dinner 0:55:27.000 --> 0:55:29.680 in a movie. They go, They have a nice time. 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:35.640 Leon seems jealous about this whole situation. Again, he is 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:40.719 very sexually repressed. He insists that he doesn't have quote 0:55:40.760 --> 0:55:44.640 unquote the need. When Ursula comes home from the date, 0:55:45.000 --> 0:55:50.320 Leon berates her again, but then he starts wondering maybe 0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:55.080 he does have the need. So he goes out with 0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:57.839 this young woman named Marcia, who who. 0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:01.400 We have seen referenced by Leon many times at this 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:03.280 point in the movie, going back to when they were children, 0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:04.759 and he fat shamed her. 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:06.800 Yes, this poor character. 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:08.799 Again, it's like a character that I don't think that 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:13.520 the movie lacks sympathy for. But Leon is just like 0:56:13.760 --> 0:56:17.400 such a mask off misogynist throughout, and you get the 0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:22.360 feeling that you know, it is a learned behavior, right. 0:56:22.520 --> 0:56:25.640 And to your point, yes, she had already been referenced 0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:31.160 before via Leon, first fat shaming her and then later 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:35.040 on slut shaming her the way he tends to do 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:38.560 to women. Yeah, but he is now on a date 0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:42.680 with Marcia and she's kissing all over him, but he's 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:46.359 still so repressed that he puts a stop to it, 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.440 and he's like, I have to go check on my 0:56:49.520 --> 0:56:55.680 friend Pin. So so Marcia, you know, gets dressed and 0:56:55.760 --> 0:57:01.160 comes out and oh, Spaghettio, there's Pin and he's chasing 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.719 Marcia somehow, And it turns out that Leon has put 0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:10.160 Pin on some sort of like remote controlled real apparatus. 0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:13.560 I'm just like, should Leon just be an imagineer, Like, 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:17.000 can we find a productive Can we find a productive 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:21.360 use of this ingenuity that isn't quite so scary. It 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:24.640 is impressive what he's managing to do. He's making basically 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:26.000 a pin animatronic. 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:28.560 He's building a man he is. 0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:35.600 He's Doctor Frankensteining Pin. But in this case, luckily Ursula 0:57:35.760 --> 0:57:37.240 is alerted in time. 0:57:37.880 --> 0:57:41.360 Well, yeah, Ursula comes in and saves Marcia. We don't 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:44.120 know what would have happened if if Ursula didn't come 0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:48.040 to the rescue. But the tension is diffused for a 0:57:48.040 --> 0:57:48.600 bit here. 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:51.560 I think another nice touch on this movie too, where 0:57:51.560 --> 0:57:53.840 it's like you are very conditioned to expect one thing 0:57:53.880 --> 0:57:57.720 to happen because it is a horror movie. But the 0:57:57.840 --> 0:58:00.480 quote unquote Final Girl, which I feel like La fills 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:05.200 in many ways. And a sexually active woman is like 0:58:05.480 --> 0:58:08.160 actively spared by the narrative, which I think is like 0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:11.280 unusual totally and saved by another woman. 0:58:12.040 --> 0:58:15.120 I mean, we've talked at length about the and this 0:58:15.160 --> 0:58:17.400 is I mean not just us. This is a very 0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:22.840 commonly known trope as far as in horror movies. If 0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:28.360 a young woman is has sexual desires or has sex, 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:34.160 she's often punished by the plot by being murdered. But yeah, 0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:37.040 this does not happen no in this movie. And even 0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:40.040 another trope that is spared is we've been talking about 0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:42.720 this going back to our Indiana Jones episode like eight 0:58:42.800 --> 0:58:47.000 years ago, that when women do defend themselves in these situations, 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:50.440 they usually use household objects, and as we'll get to later. 0:58:51.040 --> 0:58:52.120 That is not what our does. 0:58:52.920 --> 0:58:58.320 Oh yeah, yeah, let's put a pin in that. Okay, 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:02.600 So Ursula has come in and saved Marcia. The next day, 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:07.439 Leon is like, oh, I'm sorry, Ursula, I overreacted. Why 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:11.360 don't you invite Stan over for dinner? And she's like, 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:14.439 I don't know if Stan is ready to meet Pin, 0:59:15.240 --> 0:59:18.160 But what she means is, h, I'm not bringing Stan 0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:26.960 home to see the likes of whatever creepy my scarin. Yeah. Yeah, 0:59:27.280 --> 0:59:32.240 but Leon insists. So Stan comes over. Leon introduces him 0:59:32.280 --> 0:59:37.000 to Pin. Stan is clearly disturbed, but he's playing along 0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:38.320 the best he can. 0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:42.920 So nice about it, and and and that like, Ursula 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:45.320 is like, obviously briefed him, yes. 0:59:45.640 --> 0:59:49.360 And this is when we learn that Pin is short 0:59:49.480 --> 0:59:51.680 for Pinocchio, I. 0:59:51.600 --> 0:59:55.200 Know, which You're like, how the hell did I not notice? 0:59:55.680 --> 0:59:56.040 I mean? 0:59:56.840 --> 0:59:59.760 And this leads us to realize that we could have 1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:06.240 the movie Pin during the Pinocchio Wars, because Pin is Pinocchio. 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:09.960 It's true, he is Pinocchio. But yet he's like, so 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:13.560 he's so his own, He's so his own. 1:00:13.640 --> 1:00:14.120 This is true. 1:00:14.160 --> 1:00:18.560 Pin is his own man father, I want to be 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:21.200 on my own. That's kind of the Pin kind of 1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:25.080 like is happy in his situation? Pin? 1:00:26.480 --> 1:00:28.040 Yes, I don't know. 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:28.360 I guess. 1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:32.360 Let's explore that further. It's true, okay, so be happy. 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:35.880 It's not the right word, well, Pin, because I mean 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:40.320 Pin is only being projected onto so we don't sure. 1:00:40.360 --> 1:00:42.280 We don't know how Pin really feels. 1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:46.000 Leon doesn't seem to be having a great time in 1:00:46.040 --> 1:00:46.640 his life. 1:00:46.960 --> 1:00:52.520 No, okay. So Stan is over for dinner. He's playing 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.680 along with the Pin of it all. He wants to 1:00:56.720 --> 1:01:00.880 hear some poetry that Leon, who is in aspiring writer, 1:01:01.560 --> 1:01:07.439 has written, and Leon reads it and it's it's about 1:01:07.480 --> 1:01:13.160 sexual violence. It's about a mans raping his sister, and 1:01:13.400 --> 1:01:14.800 Ursula and Stan are like. 1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:19.800 This reminds me of a Seed that is not quite 1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:23.000 as bad but is a fascinating movie that Sarah Marshall 1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:24.400 showed me. I think I told you about. It's called 1:01:24.440 --> 1:01:25.120 Mister Wrong. 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:29.920 Remind me, okay it is a wait, is this the 1:01:29.960 --> 1:01:34.600 Ellen DeGeneres movie? Yes, but I still need a refresher. Okay, 1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:38.600 so this is pre coming out Ellen. Let me just 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:42.240 verify that. Yes, Okay, this came out the year before 1:01:42.280 --> 1:01:45.880 Ellen came out publicly. So it's It's an interesting concept 1:01:45.920 --> 1:01:48.200 in many ways because it is a I mean, not 1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:51.560 that Ellen cannot play a straight character, but as we 1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:55.840 conceive Ellen. And also there's all the other workplace abuse stuff. 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.680 It feels in twenty twenty six bizarre to watch Ellen 1:02:00.560 --> 1:02:04.520 headline a straight rom com called Mister Wrong. 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:07.320 But this is what happened in nineteen ninety six. No 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:09.240 one talks about this movie. I'd never heard of it 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:12.520 before Sarah showed it to me. Shout out Sarah Marshall, 1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:16.480 who was honored Devil's Advocate episode same author as Pin. Yes, 1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:21.920 but it starts Ellen DeGeneres and Bill Pullman, and the 1:02:22.040 --> 1:02:24.920 plot is fascinating. I feel like it could be adapted 1:02:24.920 --> 1:02:28.280 into like a neon psychological thriller, but it's a rom 1:02:28.320 --> 1:02:29.200 com in this case. 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:34.640 It's alarming how the plots of these two genres really 1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:36.080 could go one way or the other. 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:39.120 It's just all about performance and scoring. Those are really 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:42.840 the only differences. But yeah, I want the pin rom com. 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:44.480 Oh my god, should we do that? 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.600 Well, it got me thinking about Lars and the real girl. 1:02:48.120 --> 1:02:52.480 Sure, sure, I've never seen that. Actually, but in Mister Wrong, 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.880 Ellen meets and also it is like fun to reflect 1:02:55.920 --> 1:02:57.800 on because it's like right before she came out and 1:02:57.840 --> 1:03:00.360 it's her meeting a guy and realizing she don't want 1:03:00.400 --> 1:03:03.320 to be with him, which is fun. Yeah. Anyways, Bill 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:07.760 Pullman like really kind of like love bombs ellen degenerous character, 1:03:07.800 --> 1:03:10.520 and then she quickly figures out he's like the worst 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:15.000 guy ever. He's in fact, mister Wrong. And one of 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:17.200 the first tip offs that he's mister wrong is he 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:20.480 reads her his poetry and it's it is, actually, I 1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:23.000 think a very funny scene in Mister Wrong. Bill Pullman 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:26.440 is putting his whole Bill Pullman ussy into this like 1:03:26.640 --> 1:03:30.720 very funny, Like it's not sexually violent poetry like Leon's. 1:03:30.800 --> 1:03:34.640 It's more just like a string of adjectives. And then 1:03:34.680 --> 1:03:37.440 it cuts back to Ellen winsing at like he's like 1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:43.080 I'm a sailor in the blue, in the depth in 1:03:43.320 --> 1:03:46.680 the ocean, and like it just keeps going. I just 1:03:46.800 --> 1:03:49.960 love when men are discouraged from becoming writers. I think 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:52.560 that there should be more scenes in film where men 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:56.760 try to write and our humiliate. As her soult, I agree. 1:03:56.920 --> 1:03:58.560 It kind of reminds me of the scene in Barbie 1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:02.120 when all the Kens are totally Matchbox twenty on their 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:05.520 acoustic guitars at the Barbie's and they're just like, oh God. 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:09.240 But then yeah, I mean, never forget that Barbie didn't 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:11.440 get a song at Barbie and Ken got a banger. 1:04:12.000 --> 1:04:15.720 I love that song, but why did Barbie not get one? 1:04:15.920 --> 1:04:22.600 Anyway? Okay, so we've heard Leon's very scary and sexually 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:27.040 violent poetry. He goes upstairs to put Pin in his room, 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:31.760 and as he's coming back downstairs, he overhears Ursula and 1:04:31.800 --> 1:04:37.160 Stan talking about getting psychiatric help for Leon, and Leon 1:04:37.480 --> 1:04:41.520 does not like this. He goes back to Pin, who 1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:45.440 tells Leon that Stan is trying to turn Ursula against 1:04:45.560 --> 1:04:49.320 him and something needs to be done about it. So 1:04:50.000 --> 1:04:54.120 Leon invites Stan over under the guys that he needs 1:04:54.160 --> 1:05:00.480 help planning Ursula's surprise birthday party. Stan comes over, Leon drugs, 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:06.360 attacks and kills Stan. Pin is in the room. Of course, 1:05:06.400 --> 1:05:09.360 as all this is happening, and he tells Leon to 1:05:09.480 --> 1:05:13.280 hide Stan's car, put his body in the woodpile, and 1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:15.840 then come back and clean up the blood off of 1:05:15.920 --> 1:05:20.760 the rug. Ursula then comes home from work. Leon tells 1:05:20.760 --> 1:05:23.640 her that Stan called to cancel a date that he 1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:27.440 had with her that night, and Ursula is worried. She 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:30.640 can tell that something is off, but Leon pretends everything 1:05:30.720 --> 1:05:31.240 is normal. 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:35.120 Leon is gaslighting, like his life depends on it, which 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:37.840 he does. He does, Oh, do you think Stan's cheating 1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:38.240 on you? 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:40.360 And why don't you trust him if you love him 1:05:40.400 --> 1:05:40.840 so much? 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:42.720 Yeah, and she's like, Sam would never cheat on me, 1:05:42.760 --> 1:05:43.520 and that's so true. 1:05:43.760 --> 1:05:49.000 He would, I know. So they're having dinner, the siblings, 1:05:49.040 --> 1:05:52.720 and then Leon goes off to grab his poetry to 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:55.360 read more of it to her, and while he's in 1:05:55.360 --> 1:06:01.080 the other room, Ursula hears Stan's watch beep, a watch 1:06:01.160 --> 1:06:04.760 that she had given him as a gift, a Chekhov's 1:06:04.960 --> 1:06:07.440 watch if you will, which I forgot to mention earlier. 1:06:08.480 --> 1:06:10.520 So she hears the watch beep and then she finds 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:13.560 it on the floor, and then notices the wet spot 1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:17.280 on the carpet where Leon had scrubbed away the blood, 1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:22.920 So she knows something horrible has happened, and she asks 1:06:23.080 --> 1:06:27.080 Leon what did he do? And Leon's like it was 1:06:27.320 --> 1:06:31.720 Pin who did it. He and Stan started arguing, and 1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:36.000 then Stan fell and hit his head and died. So 1:06:36.240 --> 1:06:39.479 Ursula freaks out and runs off and then comes back 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.760 in with an axe, which is what you were alluding 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:43.240 to earlier. 1:06:43.400 --> 1:06:46.760 Hey, woman, you use a weapon in a horror movie 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:48.000 that isn't a kitchen. 1:06:47.720 --> 1:06:52.120 Knife, yay, or a frying pan or something yea. And 1:06:52.280 --> 1:06:56.160 she is about to chop Leon, but we don't exactly 1:06:56.200 --> 1:07:00.160 know what happens because we cut immediately to a bunch 1:06:59.960 --> 1:07:03.400 of police are at the house. Ursula is in the 1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:06.800 back of a cop car, and Stan's body is found 1:07:06.960 --> 1:07:12.920 in the woodpile. But wait, he's alive still, which is 1:07:13.000 --> 1:07:17.360 you're like sure, sure, And then we cut to some 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:24.200 time later, Ursula and Stan, who seems well again, visit 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.160 the house that she grew up in but apparently does 1:07:28.200 --> 1:07:33.240 not live there anymore. Ursula goes inside and talks to 1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:37.040 a figure who's sitting at the window. We only see 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:40.040 him from behind at first, but it seems to be 1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:44.160 Pin because he's sitting perfectly still and it's Pin's voice 1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:48.800 and they're talking about Leon. But then the final shot 1:07:48.840 --> 1:07:52.640 of the movie is a reveal Leon with frosted tips. 1:07:53.320 --> 1:07:58.120 It is Leon who has apparently dissociated and is now 1:07:58.240 --> 1:08:04.400 living as Pin. Yes, the end, So let's take a 1:08:04.440 --> 1:08:18.559 quick break and then we'll come back to discuss and 1:08:18.720 --> 1:08:23.519 we are back. Yeah, where to start about to Pin boy? 1:08:23.800 --> 1:08:26.120 I feel like we've touched on a lot of themes 1:08:26.600 --> 1:08:28.920 that just we need to dig into a little further here. 1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:33.000 I mean, I think obviously the issue of mental illness 1:08:33.560 --> 1:08:35.400 is brought up in the year, which we've talked about 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:38.240 a number of times in the context of how mental 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:42.400 illness is invoked in horror movies, that it's like such 1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:44.719 a difficult conversation to have because of course it shouldn't 1:08:44.720 --> 1:08:47.760 be off limits in any genre of movie, but this 1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:50.519 movie does do something that always bothers me. I think 1:08:50.560 --> 1:08:53.000 the biggest example of it that I always think of 1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:59.679 is at the beginning of Midsomar, Yeah, where you see 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:05.160 mentally unstable behavior, which is like so much of horror, 1:09:05.240 --> 1:09:08.840 you cannot extract that from the genre, right, But the 1:09:08.960 --> 1:09:12.120 issue is that it is like given a specific it 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:15.479 is attributed to a specific mental illness and then serves 1:09:15.520 --> 1:09:21.640 to stigmatize people with that illness and usually is wildly 1:09:21.680 --> 1:09:26.360 inaccurate and implies that anyone who has said mental illness 1:09:26.560 --> 1:09:31.479 is murderous and right, which is what happens towards the 1:09:31.600 --> 1:09:33.600 end of PIN. I forgot that it happened because we 1:09:33.640 --> 1:09:37.479 get so far in without it, because I think it 1:09:37.720 --> 1:09:39.760 just as easily reads, and maybe if it was made 1:09:39.800 --> 1:09:44.160 today would read as like Pin is this you know, 1:09:44.800 --> 1:09:48.000 certainly like Leon is not mentally well. But I feel 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:53.240 like PIN to me kind of clearly embodies this generational 1:09:54.000 --> 1:09:59.120 trauma that like, this trauma around perception of self and 1:09:59.160 --> 1:10:03.599 repression and attitudes around sex that is inherited from his 1:10:03.800 --> 1:10:06.639 father who originally voiced PIN, And I feel like that 1:10:06.840 --> 1:10:10.160 explanation it makes more narrative sense, and it doesn't stigmatize 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:14.600 anyone who has schizophrenia. And it's so frequently schizophrenia that 1:10:14.720 --> 1:10:20.600 is attributed to any charcutory board of behaviors, most of 1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:23.960 which have nothing to do with schizophrenia, which is a 1:10:24.040 --> 1:10:28.320 treatable illness. But yeah, I guess I was sort of 1:10:28.439 --> 1:10:31.559 confused at how it comes up here, because it's towards 1:10:31.600 --> 1:10:34.000 the end makes very little. I mean, I guess it's 1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:37.639 spoken in the context of Ursula say I don't want 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:42.800 my brother to be institutionalized, which I think is complicated 1:10:42.840 --> 1:10:46.240 because you don't because that, you know, suggests that getting 1:10:46.360 --> 1:10:49.519 help with mental illness is only a bad thing or 1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:53.120 like will ostracize you from your family. But there are 1:10:53.240 --> 1:10:55.320 enough examples of that being the case that it's like, 1:10:55.360 --> 1:10:58.439 I understand why she's concerned about that, especially in the 1:10:58.479 --> 1:11:00.360 context of an institution. 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:03.960 I mean totally, especially in the I mean in the 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:09.800 late eighties where like psychiatric help was still not the 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.080 best in most cases still can. 1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:16.760 Be a wildly misogynist race, I mean, like homophobic. There 1:11:16.760 --> 1:11:17.680 are so many ways that. 1:11:17.800 --> 1:11:22.439 Ablest like go down the list. But but yeah, I 1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:26.400 almost read that is like she doesn't want him to 1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:30.960 be in an institution where he would likely be further 1:11:31.120 --> 1:11:35.920 abused and mistreated and things like that, but we don't 1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:39.240 know for sure. Also, it's her who diagnoses him, and 1:11:39.320 --> 1:11:43.080 it's her who it's Ursula who like mentions the specific 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.960 mental illness, so which she says based on having read 1:11:47.040 --> 1:11:49.120 books about it at the library. So she's not a 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:52.960 she's not a mental health expert or at least certainly 1:11:53.000 --> 1:11:56.000 not a professional. Not to say that people you know 1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:59.439 who do their own research can't be correct in a 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:03.160 diagnosed as they give themselves or give someone else. But 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:04.920 either way we have to take what she's saying with 1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:06.960 a grain of salt. I would say it. 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:10.240 Does feel like very of the time and would continue 1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:13.000 to be of the time for decades after, because Midsommar 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:16.639 comes out what thirty years after Pin? But like, is 1:12:16.720 --> 1:12:23.639 this process of ascribing any mental illness to murderous behavior? Yes, 1:12:23.720 --> 1:12:27.240 it's very unnecessary, and I wanted to point that out. 1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:30.000 It's so funny because you're like, well, this is sure. 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:30.639 Is that harmful? 1:12:30.720 --> 1:12:30.920 Yes? 1:12:30.960 --> 1:12:36.200 Has anyone seen pin unclear? Unclear this had the opportunity 1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:39.920 to do harm? But as worth mentioning, well. 1:12:39.800 --> 1:12:43.880 I also feel like the movie sort of suggests, and 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:45.880 I'm curious what you think about this, but it feels 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:51.480 like the movie sort of suggests that the mental illness 1:12:51.640 --> 1:12:56.439 that Leon has is part of what leads to his 1:12:57.520 --> 1:13:02.280 intense sexual repression. Sure, some of it is environmental, some 1:13:02.360 --> 1:13:08.000 of it is his father's behavior and his father things 1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:12.200 that their dad says about sex, and like the bizarro 1:13:12.360 --> 1:13:15.920 sex talk that Penn gives the kids, which we'll talk 1:13:15.920 --> 1:13:21.040 about further. But I feel like based on what we 1:13:21.280 --> 1:13:26.280 hear the parents say or don't hear the parents say, 1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:32.120 because they're not they're definitely abusive and cold and cruel 1:13:32.880 --> 1:13:36.320 as parents, But I felt like they weren't like super 1:13:36.360 --> 1:13:42.479 super driving home a need to repress sexual desire. So 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:44.840 I kind of, I mean a little bit. But also 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:49.360 and I know that the dad slut shames ursula, but 1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:54.000 I didn't really get any strong indication that he was 1:13:54.080 --> 1:14:01.160 saying to Leon like repress any need you might have. 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:05.519 No conversation felt a bit more just like clinical, And 1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:07.320 it was definitely weird. 1:14:07.720 --> 1:14:09.840 The sex talk, I guess I don't I don't think 1:14:09.840 --> 1:14:12.960 that there's in my opinion, there's not enough information to 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:16.040 suggest that they're placing it on the mental illness. If anything, 1:14:16.080 --> 1:14:18.880 I think it's like a mix of things, because I 1:14:19.560 --> 1:14:23.599 do feel like the father encourages both children to have 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:26.479 disordered relationships to sex and their bodies, not in the 1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:31.200 same way. But I think that just Pin alone, giving 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:34.120 you the talk like that that gives you a disordered 1:14:34.360 --> 1:14:37.320 relationship to how bodies are talked about, how sex is 1:14:37.360 --> 1:14:40.800 talked about. The and the nurse fucking Pin seems to 1:14:40.840 --> 1:14:41.960 really do a number on Leon. 1:14:42.080 --> 1:14:42.439 As well. 1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:45.200 So I feel like it's a combination of Like, clearly 1:14:45.320 --> 1:14:49.800 whatever is like the environmental stuff is exacerbated by the 1:14:49.800 --> 1:14:51.600 mental illness. But I don't know. I didn't think it 1:14:51.640 --> 1:14:55.800 was suggested that that it was solely that fair, But 1:14:56.120 --> 1:15:00.519 I don't know. It so hard to tell what we're 1:15:00.520 --> 1:15:05.479 supposed to believe after watching Pin right, well, so. 1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:10.120 To talk more about the sex talk that Pin aka 1:15:10.520 --> 1:15:14.880 their father gives them via Pin, it starts out by 1:15:15.320 --> 1:15:20.960 saying that, like, people have a biological imperative to reproduce 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:25.799 and that creates the quote unquote need. And of course 1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:30.520 the way that this is framed is like very gender essentialist, 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:35.519 it's very heteronormative. It also erases a sexual people because 1:15:35.560 --> 1:15:40.080 at one point, Ursula asks if every person will have 1:15:40.439 --> 1:15:44.320 the need or has the need, and Pin responds with 1:15:44.840 --> 1:15:47.519 if they're normal, they do so. 1:15:47.360 --> 1:15:50.720 It just like I think, yes, I agree, I think 1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:53.320 that this is attitude of the time. And also Pin 1:15:53.520 --> 1:15:55.880 is not a character who we're supposed to be, Like, 1:15:56.360 --> 1:15:58.880 if Pin said it, it must be true. 1:15:58.560 --> 1:16:02.120 Right, But when you can consider that it's doctor Lyndon 1:16:02.840 --> 1:16:08.200 saying these things, who is a medical doctor. No, he's horrible, 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:12.320 but that's my point. My point is that his attitude 1:16:12.400 --> 1:16:16.720 toward sex and human sexuality, even though he is a 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:20.599 man of science, he is a medical doctor, he still 1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:26.720 has a very regressive and repressive way of looking at 1:16:26.880 --> 1:16:31.280 human sexuality, which again reflective of the time. But also 1:16:31.520 --> 1:16:34.719 just to share a little anecdote of a doctor's appointment 1:16:34.720 --> 1:16:39.280 that I had in recent years that demonstrates that so 1:16:39.400 --> 1:16:44.360 many doctors harbor whatever like biases they have from whatever 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:48.160 that they bring that into their medical practice. Because this 1:16:48.280 --> 1:16:50.680 was a few years ago when I was trying to 1:16:51.600 --> 1:16:55.280 get my tubes tied pre hysterectomy. I had gone to 1:16:55.320 --> 1:16:58.360 a doctor. I had said I want to go off 1:16:58.400 --> 1:17:02.120 of birth control has made me more or less completely 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:05.320 lose my libido. The particular birth control I was on. 1:17:05.960 --> 1:17:10.000 The doctor, who was a woman by the way, asked 1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:14.640 if I had a partner and I said no, and 1:17:14.680 --> 1:17:17.200 she said, well, then how do you know that you 1:17:17.240 --> 1:17:20.280 don't have a libido? I've probably shared. 1:17:20.000 --> 1:17:22.479 This story before this, but you're just like man, and. 1:17:22.439 --> 1:17:25.080 I'm just like you are like And then then I 1:17:25.080 --> 1:17:30.080 had to explain human sexuality to a doctor, which was 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:34.559 absolutely nuts. But uh, I feel like this movie actually 1:17:34.600 --> 1:17:38.080 does a good job of showing the ways in which 1:17:38.880 --> 1:17:44.480 like sexual repression and misunderstandings of sexuality can permeate medicine 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:48.439 and can influence certain doctor's attitudes and can affect the 1:17:48.439 --> 1:17:50.879 way they treat patients totally. 1:17:50.960 --> 1:17:55.000 I mean, it's like they're everyone in this. It doesn't 1:17:55.000 --> 1:17:57.760 stop at the doctor, look at the nurse, everyone at 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:02.360 the in this doctor's, this Pia Patrician's office has a 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:05.400 disordered relationship to the way they think of sex and bodies. 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:08.879 And again, not shaming using a sex doll, I'm shaming 1:18:09.360 --> 1:18:11.880 using a sex doll at your place of work with 1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:15.200 the door open with a child outside. Don't do that. 1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:15.800 Don't do it. 1:18:15.880 --> 1:18:17.920 That's a good point. Yeah, it's like that. There is 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.960 so much because of how, because of how we're socially 1:18:21.040 --> 1:18:24.960 conditioned to view doctors, which in a best case scenario 1:18:24.960 --> 1:18:28.559 wouldn't be harmful, as like someone who is not going 1:18:28.600 --> 1:18:34.320 to bring their own social conditioning into a work setting, 1:18:34.400 --> 1:18:38.800 but they so often do, especially if you are marginalized 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:39.400 in any way. 1:18:40.200 --> 1:18:45.799 Exactly. The issue of biases affecting medical professionals goes beyond 1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:50.320 the topic of sexuality and it extends to you know, 1:18:50.680 --> 1:18:54.439 there's a lot of racism in medicine, there's sexism, there's 1:18:54.600 --> 1:19:00.320 fat phobia, there's transphobia, there's again ableism and agism, like 1:19:00.400 --> 1:19:06.400 all of this stuff that often significantly harms patients. And 1:19:06.439 --> 1:19:09.679 then the irony is that when Ursula finds out she's 1:19:09.680 --> 1:19:14.920 pregnant and wants to avoid the shame that's going to 1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:19.320 come along with like being teen pregnant and who do 1:19:19.400 --> 1:19:21.840 we tell and how do we maybe keep this a 1:19:21.920 --> 1:19:26.280 secret from our parents kind of thing, Pin says, Pin 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:30.080 and Leon say, like telling a doctor, even if it's 1:19:30.120 --> 1:19:33.599 your father. You know, that's an objective person of science. 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:37.080 They're not going to bring morality into it, which is 1:19:37.160 --> 1:19:41.360 not what happens because in the next scene, doctor Lindon, 1:19:41.880 --> 1:19:44.679 who is about to perform an abortion on his own 1:19:44.760 --> 1:19:50.599 daughter again, I cannot stress enough how fucking horrifying and 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:56.280 horrible that is. He says, like, Wow, after all the 1:19:56.400 --> 1:20:00.960 time that Pin took to explain sex to you and 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:04.320 give you a better start than I ever had, I 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:08.320 still end up with a pregnant, teen pregnant daughter. It's 1:20:08.400 --> 1:20:11.679 but then it goes back to like sex ed and 1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:15.960 the sex talk that pinnaka doctor Lindon gave the kids, 1:20:16.000 --> 1:20:20.200 which is like, Okay, well doctor, did you talk about 1:20:20.520 --> 1:20:25.240 contraceptives and safe sex? Did you talk about consent? 1:20:25.400 --> 1:20:29.920 Like, clearly not based on how like he and Leon, 1:20:30.240 --> 1:20:33.720 I mean, Leon, you can see he takes a very 1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:36.720 judgmental approach to That's why I'm like, I think that 1:20:36.800 --> 1:20:39.799 there's stuff going on with the father that we don't see. 1:20:39.880 --> 1:20:42.640 And this is again me kind of projecting, but like, 1:20:43.120 --> 1:20:45.640 the way that Leon talks to his sister does not 1:20:45.760 --> 1:20:50.719 come from nowhere, and he has such a shame forward 1:20:50.840 --> 1:20:53.840 approach even when they're very young, like it and in 1:20:53.920 --> 1:20:56.280 their approach, like where she's interested. She's like looking at 1:20:56.280 --> 1:21:00.599 a Playboy issue, which you're like, I hope those are 1:21:00.680 --> 1:21:03.519 inserts from the child actors, but like, but either way 1:21:04.080 --> 1:21:08.120 that he's like horrified by her. Like he has a 1:21:08.320 --> 1:21:13.400 very armslength relationship to sex and bodies from the time 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:15.760 he's very young, And I do feel like that is 1:21:15.800 --> 1:21:17.800 sort of connected to how he's fought because his father 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:22.080 is so disconnected emotionally from others that he can't have 1:21:22.160 --> 1:21:27.240 a discussion with bodies with his own children without a mannequin. 1:21:26.840 --> 1:21:29.720 Pressent having a pin there, right, So it's like I 1:21:30.760 --> 1:21:35.000 do feel like that there's a pretty like well mapped, 1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:40.000 like you're saying, like there's medical bias and abuse layered 1:21:40.040 --> 1:21:43.400 onto it, and these kids are just like raised to 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:47.840 be so like I just have a disordered relationship to 1:21:48.280 --> 1:21:50.200 their body that it seems like Ursula spends a lot 1:21:50.200 --> 1:21:53.000 of her life trying to like understand and reclaim, but 1:21:53.040 --> 1:21:55.240 doesn't have anyone to talk to about it because she 1:21:55.400 --> 1:21:57.320 the only person she has to go. I mean, I 1:21:57.320 --> 1:21:59.320 guess she does have the friend, but we don't really 1:21:59.360 --> 1:22:01.920 see them talk or that relationship build. We just know 1:22:01.960 --> 1:22:04.960 they've been friends for a long time, and she clearly 1:22:04.960 --> 1:22:07.400 doesn't know her friend, clearly doesn't know enough to know 1:22:07.520 --> 1:22:09.800 not to go on a date with Leon. So I 1:22:09.840 --> 1:22:14.000 can't imagine they're especially close because if my best friend's 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:16.920 brother was Leon and I knew all that Leon and Penn, 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:19.160 I wouldn't be like, yeah, let's go on a date. 1:22:20.200 --> 1:22:24.559 Frankly, but it just seems like she goes to Leon 1:22:25.240 --> 1:22:28.599 for emotional support and he cannot give it to her, 1:22:28.840 --> 1:22:33.639 and I just feel so poor Ursula. Ursula is trying 1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:37.080 so hard to and it also seems like she's trying 1:22:37.120 --> 1:22:41.400 to live up to other social expectations of her, which 1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:45.439 include that of being a caretaker to her brother and 1:22:45.479 --> 1:22:48.600 shielding him from the judgment of the world and like 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:54.120 taking that on, which does feel like a very feminine expectation, right, 1:22:54.280 --> 1:22:57.320 is that she defaults to caretaker when her mother dies, 1:22:57.360 --> 1:23:00.360 she defaults to I clean the house now. And I 1:23:00.400 --> 1:23:03.240 do feel like it's like intentionally done in the movie 1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:07.120 where there's like a moment where Leon sits down after 1:23:07.640 --> 1:23:10.320 their parents die and Ursula sort of lingers for a 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:12.840 second and then starts to clean up, and it just 1:23:12.880 --> 1:23:15.360 feels like they're It felt like a moment where it's like, oh, 1:23:15.479 --> 1:23:19.639 they're starting to like click into these roles because they don't. 1:23:20.000 --> 1:23:22.920 There's just like a void of order. 1:23:23.120 --> 1:23:25.479 That's not about that too. But then it's Leon who 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:29.240 seems to cook all of the meals, so he's okay, prettysive, 1:23:29.479 --> 1:23:33.639 so actually feminist icon. 1:23:33.479 --> 1:23:36.439 Don't worry about all the woman murders. Actually, and then 1:23:36.439 --> 1:23:39.040 he does try to kill stands, so you know he's 1:23:39.080 --> 1:23:44.519 open to killing people of alt true, But yeah, I mean, 1:23:44.520 --> 1:23:47.800 and then I think it's I almost I don't feel 1:23:47.800 --> 1:23:50.920 like we have time to get into this as fully 1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:55.479 as maybe we I don't know if should is the 1:23:55.560 --> 1:24:00.400 right word, but like the themes of incest that I 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:03.760 hear come up far more in the book, which kind 1:24:03.840 --> 1:24:09.240 of scans to me because the writer Andrew Niederman, who's 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:11.720 still living and also wrote the original screenplay to The 1:24:11.720 --> 1:24:16.360 Amityville Horror and The Devil's Advocate, but he was the 1:24:16.560 --> 1:24:21.200 talk about feminist icon. He was the ghost writer for 1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:27.000 horror writer VC Andrews after she died for decades, and 1:24:27.240 --> 1:24:29.639 her work when she was alive, and then the ghost 1:24:29.680 --> 1:24:32.599 written work after she died. This was a frequent theme 1:24:33.080 --> 1:24:33.599 that would. 1:24:33.439 --> 1:24:35.840 Appear in her horror incest was. 1:24:36.040 --> 1:24:39.880 Incest or like disordered, like disordered relationships to sex, growing 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:43.360 up with a family. So while I didn't read the 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:45.519 book because it just did not sound like a fun 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:48.559 way to spend a weekend, and I like the movie, 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:51.920 I hear that that seems to come up far more. 1:24:52.560 --> 1:24:55.400 But the change made for the movie is that that 1:24:55.680 --> 1:24:59.720 set of I don't know how to properly describe it, 1:25:00.240 --> 1:25:05.000 that set of disordered feeling and thinking that manifests an 1:25:05.160 --> 1:25:10.680 abusive behavior towards his sister is sort of kept exclusively 1:25:10.720 --> 1:25:13.800 to Leon. I guess in the book they're both struggling 1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:17.599 with this, But in the movie, which I think sort 1:25:17.600 --> 1:25:21.120 of plays to like you're saying of how heavily emphasized 1:25:21.280 --> 1:25:25.439 Leon's mental illnesses, specifically where I think the book even 1:25:25.439 --> 1:25:30.280 though Leon is the pin Enabler in the book of 1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:39.080 the Pinnabler the Penultimate but that they both sort of 1:25:39.160 --> 1:25:43.160 fall into this mental health crisis after their parents die 1:25:43.760 --> 1:25:46.320 where in the movie, And I think I prefer this 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:51.479 like that Ursula is more focused on trying to move 1:25:51.520 --> 1:25:55.479 forward with her life and being met with nothing but 1:25:56.600 --> 1:25:59.000 expectations that are far more than should be expected of 1:25:59.040 --> 1:26:02.200 a teenage girl, that protecting her brother from what she 1:26:02.280 --> 1:26:09.320 fears will be an abusive institutionalization, navigating her own relationship 1:26:09.400 --> 1:26:12.200 to her body and sex, which is very disordered because 1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:16.960 she is forced to vow abstinence to her brother brother 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:21.000 and not to mention all of the weird stuff with 1:26:21.080 --> 1:26:23.799 her father as well, and it seems like the total 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:27.120 void of a relationship with her mother. So she goes 1:26:27.200 --> 1:26:30.679 from you know, being like a sexually active teenager, which 1:26:31.560 --> 1:26:34.680 we don't really have enough information to know, like is 1:26:34.720 --> 1:26:37.800 she just like doing what teenagers do? Is she like 1:26:37.880 --> 1:26:40.439 acting out? We like don't know. It could be some 1:26:40.560 --> 1:26:44.080 column a columbe CALLM C. Whatever but she makes a 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:47.000 pretty severe one eighty on that and goes to being 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:50.120 completely complicit to what her brother says she should do, 1:26:50.840 --> 1:26:54.040 sort of as a punishment for having gotten this abortion. 1:26:54.960 --> 1:26:57.280 It seems like they're like, well, the way to avoid 1:26:57.400 --> 1:27:00.639 getting pregnant again is to completely cut yourself off from 1:27:00.760 --> 1:27:03.080 the need, so that the fact when she meets Pin 1:27:03.240 --> 1:27:06.200 and quote unquote, the need comes back. Even though I 1:27:06.200 --> 1:27:09.599 think for Ursula they when she meets oh my god, 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:13.880 our boyfriend Pin, what does she fall in love with 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:15.800 the Pin? Oh my god? And then it's and it's 1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:16.679 so love triangle. 1:27:16.920 --> 1:27:17.600 Wow. 1:27:17.840 --> 1:27:22.040 Oh, But when she meets Stan, oh, I my argument 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:26.240 for Ursula is the need for her is actually just 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:30.519 a need for genuine connection with someone, where I think 1:27:30.680 --> 1:27:32.960 that the need as it manifests, actually is something that 1:27:33.000 --> 1:27:36.880 affects almost everybody you know, and she's coming of age 1:27:36.880 --> 1:27:39.519 and all of this stuff. But like by the time 1:27:39.800 --> 1:27:42.599 we're at like the midpoint of this movie, I think 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:46.160 the need for Ursula like it is sexual. It seems 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:48.840 like she and Stan are sexually active. We see him 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:52.120 topless opening a watch at some point like relatively if 1:27:52.120 --> 1:27:54.479 they have sex, which I also think is a really 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:56.840 good plot point for Ursula because that shows that she's 1:27:56.920 --> 1:27:59.880 directly going against what her brother has demanded of her, 1:28:00.640 --> 1:28:05.200 and that where I normally don't whatever, we tend to 1:28:05.240 --> 1:28:08.320 be pretty ambivalent towards like a love interest shoehorned in. 1:28:08.439 --> 1:28:12.519 But I think like Stan serves because Ursula pursues and 1:28:12.680 --> 1:28:16.240 gets a job that she likes. I think Stan serves 1:28:16.280 --> 1:28:19.040 like a narrative purpose that is very active for her, 1:28:19.160 --> 1:28:21.360 where it's like she is standing up to her brother, 1:28:21.920 --> 1:28:26.320 she is seeking out emotional safety that she's never had before, 1:28:27.320 --> 1:28:31.960 and she's you know, not buying this the horror movie 1:28:31.960 --> 1:28:34.719 trope that if I have sex, I won't survive the movie, 1:28:34.760 --> 1:28:39.240 because she does, and so I like the stand relationship. 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:43.520 She seems to be realizing more and more that perhaps 1:28:43.880 --> 1:28:48.599 her brother is not right about a lot of his 1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:54.320 views on sexuality, imagine that he's perhaps a bit unstable, 1:28:54.880 --> 1:28:59.160 and that she shouldn't listen to him yet. And then 1:28:59.200 --> 1:29:03.640 she starts kind of breaking away from the stronghold he 1:29:03.760 --> 1:29:09.080 has on her behavior, particularly as it relates to her sexuality, 1:29:09.640 --> 1:29:13.200 and kind of in an act of defiance, says, well, 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:16.320 I'm going to just do my own thing and pursue 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:22.600 what I want and fulfill my need if I so choose. 1:29:22.880 --> 1:29:26.400 I agree, and yeah, and I like on Stan's and 1:29:27.040 --> 1:29:30.680 that Stan is it seems like because sometimes this is 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:32.640 like a good and this could be a relationship of 1:29:32.680 --> 1:29:35.439 any kind, like it doesn't need to be romantic, but 1:29:35.600 --> 1:29:40.639 that like he is articulating things that she needs to hear, 1:29:40.800 --> 1:29:42.800 and it makes sense that she hasn't been able to say. 1:29:42.800 --> 1:29:45.559 But like, I mean, do I wish for for Stan's 1:29:45.600 --> 1:29:48.040 sake that he maybe waited until they were in a 1:29:48.120 --> 1:29:52.120 second location to bring up all the like, clearly your 1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:58.559 brother needs help and is scaring me? Why he looks 1:29:58.680 --> 1:29:59.640 like that. 1:30:00.840 --> 1:30:03.320 What's that skin suit he's wearing? 1:30:03.880 --> 1:30:05.920 But that has it's so funny when we're talking about 1:30:05.920 --> 1:30:08.320 this seriously because you're like, oh, right, we're talking about Pin. 1:30:08.720 --> 1:30:11.599 But like that has to be affirming for Arthula because 1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:13.080 that's something that she's had in the back of her 1:30:13.120 --> 1:30:16.000 mind for years but can't talk about with anybody out 1:30:16.040 --> 1:30:19.800 of fear of the consequences of talking about it, and 1:30:19.840 --> 1:30:22.160 that like Stan, it seems like is the first person 1:30:22.240 --> 1:30:25.280 that can just I mean, that's such a powerful thing 1:30:25.360 --> 1:30:28.800 to be like, hey, I also see Pin, and I'm 1:30:28.800 --> 1:30:29.920 also scared of Pin. 1:30:30.520 --> 1:30:34.120 That's powerful for sure, But that makes me think of 1:30:34.920 --> 1:30:40.760 the one scene where their mother and Pin are in 1:30:40.840 --> 1:30:44.240 close proximity to each other, which is the car scene. 1:30:44.600 --> 1:30:48.000 But it's clear that their mother thinks Pin is freaky 1:30:48.080 --> 1:30:52.439 and weird and doesn't like Pin. So why so I'm wondering, like, 1:30:52.560 --> 1:30:56.600 why wasn't there may be a conversation between Ursula and 1:30:56.640 --> 1:31:00.559 her mother where they're talking about how uncomfortable makes them. 1:31:00.600 --> 1:31:03.639 You're not wrong, And my guess is that because this 1:31:03.880 --> 1:31:08.280 is written and directed by men, and men tend not 1:31:08.560 --> 1:31:13.880 to think about women interacting, can you believe it, So 1:31:14.360 --> 1:31:19.840 they can't really conceive of what a conversation between two 1:31:19.840 --> 1:31:22.799 women or a woman and a girl or whatever would 1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:27.439 look like. So that's why we don't have that. But 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:30.120 it's established that both of the women in the family, 1:31:30.240 --> 1:31:33.000 like have a lot of uneasiness around Pin. 1:31:33.479 --> 1:31:36.799 Women do not trust Pin, and with good reason except 1:31:36.800 --> 1:31:42.320 for that nurse. Except for that, nurses are closest She's 1:31:42.400 --> 1:31:46.240 right or die for. Look, sometimes we are attracted to 1:31:46.240 --> 1:31:49.479 toxic people and even toxic pins. 1:31:49.920 --> 1:31:52.360 Toxic pins, toxic pins. 1:31:53.160 --> 1:31:57.280 Anyways, Yeah, Pin is scary. I like the stand relationship. 1:31:57.320 --> 1:32:01.960 I will say I think that there was equal opportunity 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:06.560 for this to happen with Ursula with a friend, particularly 1:32:06.920 --> 1:32:09.639 the friend who ends up going on a date with Leon. 1:32:10.760 --> 1:32:13.160 I do feel like that character is well used, but 1:32:13.760 --> 1:32:16.439 I sort of was wondering why Ursula wouldn't have had 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:19.320 a more open relationship with her that too. Yeah, but 1:32:19.479 --> 1:32:22.000 I think that where Stan gets the edge there is 1:32:22.040 --> 1:32:24.160 like if everyone in this movie absolutely has to be 1:32:24.560 --> 1:32:28.880 straight or pin because it's nineteen eighty eight, that like 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:31.880 the sexual component of her relationship with Stan is also 1:32:31.960 --> 1:32:36.000 kind of like important to why they're being together. Makes 1:32:36.040 --> 1:32:39.040 sense in the story because it's like she's getting that 1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:42.479 emotional closeness and she's like not falling into the Leon 1:32:42.600 --> 1:32:45.880 superstition that having sex means that your life is over 1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:48.400 or whatever, you're damaged or whatever. 1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:54.120 Yeah. I mean, ultimately, this is a movie about how 1:32:55.080 --> 1:33:01.120 being sexually repressed, which is a learned behavior. This is, 1:33:01.280 --> 1:33:06.200 you know, Leon learned this, How detrimental that can be. 1:33:06.560 --> 1:33:12.160 It can lead to people dying, getting chopped with an axe. 1:33:12.320 --> 1:33:17.760 Pinned, crash your car. H Also, it seems like maybe 1:33:18.200 --> 1:33:21.760 John Locke starts to realize this ten seconds before. 1:33:21.479 --> 1:33:24.240 He dies, that Pen is maybe bad news. 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:27.360 No, well not the Pin is bad news. But that 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:31.160 like the way that he has conditioned his children to 1:33:31.240 --> 1:33:35.880 think is unsharpy to them. You know, based on what 1:33:35.880 --> 1:33:37.720 we know about the character, I don't think we're led 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:41.640 to believe he's going to have a positive change to 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:44.280 his life as a result. But it did seem like that, 1:33:44.400 --> 1:33:48.200 like register that, like, oh, the me doing this like 1:33:48.360 --> 1:33:50.679 hurts Leon, right, because. 1:33:50.479 --> 1:33:55.000 He's horrified to learn that. Leon goes and has full 1:33:55.120 --> 1:34:00.000 dialogues with Pin, and it seems like he realizes, like, oh, 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:02.840 oh no, what have I done if I had only 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:04.920 just talked to my son directly for once in my 1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:09.200 life and not only communicated him via making him count 1:34:09.280 --> 1:34:12.960 backwards from one hundred by sevens, which, by the way, 1:34:13.840 --> 1:34:18.559 that scene, so it seems like Leon and Ursula are 1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:20.800 like two or three years apart in. 1:34:20.800 --> 1:34:22.720 Age, right, Yeah, something like that. 1:34:22.800 --> 1:34:25.720 Yeah, And it seems like in that scene when their 1:34:25.840 --> 1:34:28.960 dad is like making them do counting and or math, 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:32.400 he says to Ursula, who seems to be about five 1:34:32.560 --> 1:34:36.920 at the time, to count to ten, and then Leon, 1:34:36.960 --> 1:34:40.080 who's only two years older than her, has to count 1:34:40.160 --> 1:34:43.360 backwards from one hundred by sevens. But my point is, like, 1:34:44.200 --> 1:34:49.200 surely Ursula can do slightly more complicated things with numbers 1:34:49.240 --> 1:34:50.880 than simply just counting to ten. 1:34:51.840 --> 1:34:55.360 I think that that's like intentional though, right, like he 1:34:55.479 --> 1:34:58.840 is setting Leon up to fail, and like it almost 1:34:58.880 --> 1:35:00.800 feels that's how I read it, is like and or. 1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:05.800 He underestimates the capabilities of girls because he's sexist. 1:35:06.280 --> 1:35:09.479 Maybe I don't know. Yeah, I read that as like 1:35:09.640 --> 1:35:12.840 him like enacting this. That's why I mean, like the 1:35:13.360 --> 1:35:16.120 mother's abuse is far more direct, But I do feel 1:35:16.120 --> 1:35:19.160 like the father's behavior is intended as abuse, but like 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:22.680 a far more like psychologically torturous. Like I think that 1:35:22.680 --> 1:35:25.479 that was like a humiliation ritual, Like he doesn't even 1:35:25.520 --> 1:35:28.360 make physical contact with Leon. He just wants him to 1:35:28.400 --> 1:35:32.080 feel bad about himself before going to bed, which is 1:35:32.160 --> 1:35:33.040 so horrible. 1:35:33.560 --> 1:35:37.280 That's so evil, right, because later there's a scene between 1:35:37.479 --> 1:35:42.320 Leon and Ursula where Leon speaks to clear resentment he 1:35:42.400 --> 1:35:46.080 has towards his parents and the psychological damage they did 1:35:46.120 --> 1:35:49.720 to him. It's when he's like pouring wine over the 1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:52.880 tablecloth and being like, oh, my god, mother would hate 1:35:52.920 --> 1:35:55.200 this and father would hate that we're drinking wine. 1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:58.080 He said, let's go and let's get a little silly, 1:35:58.200 --> 1:36:02.439 and Ursula understand. I don't know or I do I 1:36:02.840 --> 1:36:05.640 even though it's like it freaks you out because you're like, 1:36:05.920 --> 1:36:09.400 anytime she stands up to Leon, she's in danger, unfortunate, 1:36:09.400 --> 1:36:11.040 and that's so many I mean, she is in a 1:36:11.040 --> 1:36:14.559 domestic abuse situation with her brother, yes, but also it 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:18.120 is as a viewer very satisfying for her to be like, 1:36:18.439 --> 1:36:21.160 I can't eat it at the table with fucking Pin. 1:36:21.920 --> 1:36:24.400 This sucks and he's like, I'll. 1:36:24.280 --> 1:36:25.080 Take it up with Pin. 1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:29.240 Pin says it's okay. You're like, fuck you, Leah. I look, 1:36:30.120 --> 1:36:31.639 this movie is so awesome. 1:36:32.120 --> 1:36:34.639 Uh yeah, yeah. 1:36:34.760 --> 1:36:37.400 I'm trying to think of, like what else there is 1:36:37.439 --> 1:36:41.559 to say. I mean, I think that there's opportunities for 1:36:41.880 --> 1:36:43.600 I mean getting into I do believe it passes the 1:36:43.600 --> 1:36:47.599 Bechtel test not often, but there I forget, Well, this 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:50.760 is maybe proving the point. But like her boss at 1:36:50.800 --> 1:36:53.599 the library does have a name, and they talk about 1:36:53.640 --> 1:36:58.800 they like do have like a few exchanges. So I am, well, 1:36:58.840 --> 1:37:01.280 it's one of my one of my favorite movies. But 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:03.160 it is like a movie I really like, and I 1:37:03.200 --> 1:37:04.760 want to give it the edge because I do think 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:08.240 that the movies. I think the movie has a lot 1:37:08.240 --> 1:37:12.320 of empathy for both of the siblings, but especially Ursula. 1:37:12.600 --> 1:37:15.880 It's like more subversive than it seems, even though I 1:37:15.920 --> 1:37:19.640 think a big failure of it is you know, I 1:37:20.160 --> 1:37:22.960 don't know. I don't feel qualified to decide how this 1:37:23.200 --> 1:37:28.400 handles incest. I'm assuming not very well. But I think 1:37:28.760 --> 1:37:32.080 that there are we were presented with a number of 1:37:32.120 --> 1:37:35.160 women who could have had a bigger role in the story, 1:37:35.880 --> 1:37:40.519 and don't I think, yeah, that it feels very written 1:37:40.680 --> 1:37:42.960 by a man, directed by a man that you know, 1:37:43.000 --> 1:37:45.519 it's the relationship to their father that is the one 1:37:45.560 --> 1:37:49.320 that shapes their lives for better and for worse, their 1:37:49.360 --> 1:37:53.320 mother's present, but we do not as present Ursula find 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:56.479 solace in a relationship, in a romantic relationship with a man, 1:37:57.040 --> 1:37:58.840 not maybe with the friend that we know. 1:37:58.880 --> 1:38:02.480 She's close with, more Marcia. Trust more Marcia. 1:38:03.080 --> 1:38:05.160 But I also think we're presented with a lot of 1:38:05.160 --> 1:38:09.320 classic horror setups that are like very intentionally subverted in 1:38:09.479 --> 1:38:13.200 Ursula's favor, where she is the final girl, she's not 1:38:13.320 --> 1:38:19.919 using a frying pan. Marcia lives and is saved by Ursula. 1:38:20.120 --> 1:38:22.960 So I don't know, it's it's it's a very very 1:38:23.040 --> 1:38:26.599 mixed bag. I feel this movie in terms in terms 1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:29.880 of Bechdel cast, it is a mixed fact as a 1:38:30.080 --> 1:38:31.320 movie to watch. 1:38:31.640 --> 1:38:35.800 You gotta watch Pin. It's it's on the pinometer. It's 1:38:35.800 --> 1:38:36.679 a ten out of ten. 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:41.880 That's there's so many different pin rank your favorite Pin? 1:38:42.000 --> 1:38:42.240 Look? 1:38:42.320 --> 1:38:48.439 Are you into skin pin or no skin? Pin? Uh? 1:38:48.600 --> 1:38:52.959 No skin plus suit or no skin naked like a 1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:55.080 clothing suit not skin suit? Right? 1:38:55.640 --> 1:38:58.960 Yeah? Dead father suit on pin or maybe not? 1:38:59.280 --> 1:39:03.880 Or fully new food with an anatomically correct penis? 1:39:04.200 --> 1:39:06.639 Is that covered in skin? Or do we keep that raw? 1:39:07.240 --> 1:39:11.599 So many questions with regards to Pin. But I do 1:39:11.680 --> 1:39:14.800 believe it pastest. I believe you. 1:39:14.920 --> 1:39:15.879 I didn't pay attention. 1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:18.519 I do believe it does. I don't think it you know, 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:21.479 not handily, but I think it technically does. Okay, what 1:39:21.680 --> 1:39:27.040 is your what is your nipple rating for the film Pin. 1:39:27.560 --> 1:39:31.400 I'll give this. I feel like it's a split down 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:34.120 the middle because it does feel like such a mixed bag. 1:39:34.160 --> 1:39:36.800 I think it is doing something interesting by commenting on 1:39:37.400 --> 1:39:44.679 like in cell slash val cell mentality and how that 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:53.000 sexual repression which often manifests as utter rage and often 1:39:53.120 --> 1:39:59.720 violence toward women. The movie like acknowledges that examines it 1:39:59.760 --> 1:40:05.240 in I think pretty effective ways. I don't know, I 1:40:05.280 --> 1:40:08.960 think so. It's such a wild movie. But and again 1:40:09.040 --> 1:40:12.040 to your point, the tropes that are being subverted, as 1:40:12.040 --> 1:40:16.040 far as teen girls who are sexually interested and have 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:19.960 clear sexual desire not being punished by the plot of 1:40:20.000 --> 1:40:23.799 the movie for that, they are punished by men around 1:40:23.880 --> 1:40:28.680 them who are harboring, you know, sex negative attitudes and 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:35.040 misogyny and the double standards around being sexually active from 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:38.040 a gender point of view, and they're so quick to 1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:42.400 slept shame teen girls and women. So all of that 1:40:42.439 --> 1:40:43.519 stuff is pretty interesting. 1:40:43.720 --> 1:40:46.439 It's a rich text, you can rich text. 1:40:47.320 --> 1:40:51.320 Yeah, so let's say two and a half nipples, two 1:40:51.360 --> 1:40:56.760 and a half plastic skin suit nipples that we are 1:40:56.800 --> 1:41:01.880 to believe Pin eventually has. Yes, Okay, and I'm giving 1:41:01.920 --> 1:41:05.880 them to Ursula, who that actor looks so much like 1:41:05.920 --> 1:41:08.880 Taylor Swift to me, just throwing that out there. 1:41:09.160 --> 1:41:12.200 She does kind of look like eighties Taylor Swift. That's 1:41:12.200 --> 1:41:12.799 so interesting. 1:41:12.960 --> 1:41:15.280 But yeah, I'll give them to Ursula, and I'll give 1:41:15.280 --> 1:41:18.760 my half nipple to Marcia. She deserved more. Yeah, she 1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:19.439 was a cutie. 1:41:20.400 --> 1:41:22.799 I am also going to go two and a half. 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:27.040 I think that's a fair rating for Pin. It's I 1:41:27.080 --> 1:41:28.840 think it's it's so tricky because it's like, I think 1:41:28.880 --> 1:41:31.519 it's doing a lot of really interesting subversa things. It's 1:41:31.560 --> 1:41:35.400 doing a number of less so and then it's doing 1:41:35.560 --> 1:41:38.000 a bunch of third things that I don't fully know 1:41:38.080 --> 1:41:40.240 if it's doing a good or bad job, but it 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:41.280 kept my attention. 1:41:41.960 --> 1:41:46.880 Is Pin sentient in the car or otherwise shrug, just 1:41:47.080 --> 1:41:47.679 don't know. 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:51.840 I I I will say, I really, I really enjoy 1:41:51.920 --> 1:41:53.840 this movie. I think this is a super fun movie 1:41:53.840 --> 1:41:57.840 to like what it's like a sleepover movie. It's so weird. Yeah, 1:41:57.880 --> 1:42:01.400 so bring Pin to your friend if I mean, I 1:42:01.400 --> 1:42:03.680 guess with the appropriate trigger warnings, but bring Pin to 1:42:03.720 --> 1:42:08.400 your friends. You'll never see a mannequin the same again, 1:42:08.920 --> 1:42:11.000 that would actually be a good theme because there's there 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:14.120 is that Kim Control movie Mannequin as well that I've 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:15.439 seen with Briant. 1:42:15.439 --> 1:42:21.400 It's a weird one. The Real Girl size, which we've 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:22.479 covered on the Matreon. 1:42:22.560 --> 1:42:26.960 I think Mannikinuary, think about it, think about it anyways. Yes, 1:42:26.960 --> 1:42:28.439 I'm going to give it two and a half nipples. 1:42:28.479 --> 1:42:32.240 Two to ursula and have to the pile of wood 1:42:32.600 --> 1:42:38.479 that barely hides stands apparently a live body. Yeah, and 1:42:38.520 --> 1:42:39.920 I think that's going to do it for Pin. 1:42:41.160 --> 1:42:42.360 Happy birthday, Jamie. 1:42:42.640 --> 1:42:44.839 Yeah, I'm noticing no one's wished me a happy birthday. 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:46.960 Kind of interesting, Okay. 1:42:46.720 --> 1:42:49.200 Pin, I wished you one at the beginning of the episode. 1:42:49.200 --> 1:42:56.519 If you recall, remember I want happy. 1:42:54.080 --> 1:42:55.640 Oh my god, you know what. I don't think I 1:42:55.680 --> 1:42:57.840 heard that, because when you do Pin voice, it cuts 1:42:57.880 --> 1:43:01.719 out on the zoom it because it's too scary. 1:43:02.120 --> 1:43:06.120 You're a while zoo tracering Pin, I retract. 1:43:06.160 --> 1:43:09.640 I didn't realize you said that because your good voice disappears. 1:43:09.760 --> 1:43:12.080 That's how I opened the episode. Wow. 1:43:12.479 --> 1:43:16.639 Well, uh, you know, happy happy birthday. For my birthday, 1:43:17.400 --> 1:43:20.080 I don't. I don't know, Caitlyn, I should text you. 1:43:20.120 --> 1:43:22.120 I got to make some plans and then the day 1:43:22.160 --> 1:43:26.000 after my birthday, I'm going to see my nieces and nephews. 1:43:26.040 --> 1:43:27.000 So I'm excited about that. 1:43:27.280 --> 1:43:28.840 Yeah, what a lovely gift. 1:43:29.080 --> 1:43:31.519 I will not be showing them Pin. 1:43:33.360 --> 1:43:33.960 Good fun. 1:43:35.240 --> 1:43:39.120 But yeah, thank you so much for listening, listeners, thank 1:43:39.160 --> 1:43:41.640 you for watching Pin. I'm assuming if you made it 1:43:41.680 --> 1:43:45.200 this far. Also, if you made it this far, if 1:43:45.200 --> 1:43:47.640 we haven't released it already, there are tour announcements on 1:43:47.720 --> 1:43:49.960 the way for this fall and beyond for our ten 1:43:50.040 --> 1:43:53.960 year anniversary tour, keep your eyes peel for that. As always, 1:43:54.240 --> 1:43:56.760 the best way to support the show is by subscribing 1:43:56.800 --> 1:43:59.760 to our Patreon ak Matreon, Caitlyn, you just mentioned that's 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:03.400 where our life Size episode is, where over two hundred 1:44:03.439 --> 1:44:06.120 episodes are and it's been the same price for almost 1:44:06.200 --> 1:44:09.439 ten years. Five dollars a month gets you access to 1:44:09.479 --> 1:44:12.040 the entire back catalog as well as two new episodes 1:44:12.280 --> 1:44:14.400 on a theme of ours or your choosing, every month, 1:44:14.920 --> 1:44:17.200 and it is it is the way to keep the 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:19.360 Bextel cast afloat. So as a birthday gift to me, 1:44:19.800 --> 1:44:22.640 become a matron or just remain a matron. 1:44:22.760 --> 1:44:26.160 Please, and you can enjoy Jamie's Birthday picks over on 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:30.000 the Matreon this month, which is minised too. And two 1:44:30.080 --> 1:44:31.639 thousand and one a space Odyssey. 1:44:31.960 --> 1:44:36.519 Yeah, really really expanding what two can mean in the 1:44:36.520 --> 1:44:37.640 title of a movie. 1:44:39.240 --> 1:44:40.320 It's so pactic. 1:44:40.760 --> 1:44:44.360 Thank you for watching Pin again, Caitlin. It's a birthday miracle. 1:44:44.680 --> 1:44:47.000 Honestly, I had a pretty good time, so thank you. 1:44:47.120 --> 1:44:50.280 It's a good time all right. 1:44:50.920 --> 1:44:54.160 Bye, Bye, Jamie Baking. 1:44:58.600 --> 1:45:01.960 The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and 1:45:02.080 --> 1:45:04.240 produced by Me, Jamie Loftus. 1:45:04.120 --> 1:45:07.599 And Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by 1:45:07.720 --> 1:45:09.080 Sophie Lichtermann and. 1:45:09.280 --> 1:45:12.479 Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them? That's Me 1:45:13.000 --> 1:45:16.200 and our logo and merch and all of our artwork 1:45:16.240 --> 1:45:19.800 in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever Heard of Her? 1:45:20.000 --> 1:45:20.759 Oh My God? 1:45:21.240 --> 1:45:23.720 And our theme song, by the way, was composed by 1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:24.880 Mike Kaplan. 1:45:24.760 --> 1:45:27.840 With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski. 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:30.240 Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only 1:45:30.600 --> 1:45:31.880 Aristotle Acevedo. 1:45:32.400 --> 1:45:36.200 For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash 1:45:36.240 --> 1:45:37.040 Spectel Cast