WEBVTT - Medium Jonathan Mark / Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>This is he said, a ya viho with Eric Winter

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<v Speaker 1>and Rosalind fantev.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, welcome back to another episode of he said,

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<v Speaker 2>He said, because my wife is going to be gone

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<v Speaker 2>still for another month. This is ongoing, this new series.

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<v Speaker 2>Are we liking this he said? He said, No, I

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<v Speaker 2>missed my wife. She needs me back. Listen. I just

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<v Speaker 2>got back from Puerto Rico. She's crushing it out there

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<v Speaker 2>directing her movie. I'm so proud of her. A lot

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<v Speaker 2>of work. She has no breaks. I've never seen her

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<v Speaker 2>work so hard. But I truly couldn't be more happy

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<v Speaker 2>for her. Everything coming together. My experience in the movie

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<v Speaker 2>was very interesting because I spoke a lot of Spanish

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<v Speaker 2>that I normally would not speak. Not a lot of Spanish,

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<v Speaker 2>but way too much for me to be acting with Spanish.

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you that much. It is so tough

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<v Speaker 2>acting in another language. I have so much respect now

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<v Speaker 2>and I understand, you know, for Roslin, her first language

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<v Speaker 2>is Spanish. She obviously learned English a bit more in

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<v Speaker 2>her twenties, but like to speak in another to act

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<v Speaker 2>in another language, hit everything the right way with the

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<v Speaker 2>intentions and try to eliminate an accent. I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>probably sounded ridiculous half the time. I was so nervous.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty years in this business and I was probably some

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<v Speaker 2>of my most nerve wracking scenes were acting in Spanish.

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<v Speaker 2>But I made it to Puerto Rico. Long story short,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a disaster to get there. I had my

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<v Speaker 2>flight canceled twice. Went to one airport, they canceled my

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<v Speaker 2>flight when I got to the lounge they had and

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<v Speaker 2>I had to work the next morning after a red eye,

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<v Speaker 2>so they had to give me a cab certificate to

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<v Speaker 2>get me to a different airport to then jump on

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<v Speaker 2>a plane and finally make it there after a red

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<v Speaker 2>eye and then go straight to work. So it was

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<v Speaker 2>a whirlwind week, but great to see the wife and

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<v Speaker 2>see her in her element doing great things. And we

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<v Speaker 2>shall be back an action on the show soon. Look today,

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<v Speaker 2>well for this episode, we have a two part episode

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<v Speaker 2>coming up. But this, this episode coming up is exciting

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<v Speaker 2>to me. And you know, we've talked about this many

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<v Speaker 2>times that I'm not the Fufu or the wouie one

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<v Speaker 2>like we know with all this stuff mediums and psychics

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<v Speaker 2>and all that, like my wife, but I've become more

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<v Speaker 2>open to this stuff and I definitely believe that people

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<v Speaker 2>can communicate with the afterlife. I do believe it's possible

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<v Speaker 2>because I've had some wild experiences in my you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and a few different sessions I've had with various mediums

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<v Speaker 2>and psychics, and it's been spot on things that people

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<v Speaker 2>could never know. And I'm so excited. We have a

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<v Speaker 2>guest today on the show, Jonathan Mark, who's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the world's most sought after mediums. He initially pursued a

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<v Speaker 2>career to be a police officer, which is amazing to me,

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<v Speaker 2>and somehow that shifted over into being a medium. So

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<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to dive in about that. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that he wanted to be a cop, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>all for it. I want to hear you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>a rookie member here, I have so much respect for

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement and everything I've learned. And now he actually

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<v Speaker 2>works with law enforcement, the NYPD, FBI in particular to

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<v Speaker 2>help solve some true crime cases. A lot of them

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<v Speaker 2>are cold cases, and he uses his abilities to help

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<v Speaker 2>solve the crime. And I can't wait to dive in

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<v Speaker 2>about that. I'm fascinated by it. He also has a podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>first season out, Connect with Jonathan Mark, which launched July thirtieth.

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<v Speaker 2>This is going to be a lot of fun. He's

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<v Speaker 2>going to actually do a reading with me, So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a little nervous to see what happens. One time I

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<v Speaker 2>had a reading and nobody showed up, like the meetium

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<v Speaker 2>was like, sorry, there's nobody that wants to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Was wild. It was wild nobody. But the last time

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<v Speaker 2>I had a reading, my dad was clearly there. So

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<v Speaker 2>we'll see what happens. Let's bring him in listen. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much for coming on, he said, Aado. I

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<v Speaker 2>know you also have your own podcast. I'll start right

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<v Speaker 2>away with that Connect with Jonathan Mark, which you just

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<v Speaker 2>launched July thirtieth, exciting, diving in a bunch of readings

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<v Speaker 2>with and I know you've actually one of my co stars,

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<v Speaker 2>Jenna Duwan I think did a reading with you, which

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<v Speaker 2>I have to talk to her about that. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to hear all about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, we didn't get to record yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh she's going to be coming on.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah. I read her a while back and we

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<v Speaker 1>were going to do a project together, and with her

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<v Speaker 1>schedule and having a baby kind of put a little

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a little hinder on things, which is completely justified.

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<v Speaker 2>So for sure, Now I wanted one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that my producers brought it to me right away, and

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to jump in about this. Is that. Sure,

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<v Speaker 2>so you became a medium, but before that, you actually

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to become a police officer. Yeah. And I work

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<v Speaker 2>on a show all about cops, so I have I

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<v Speaker 2>have mad respect for cops and what they've you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what they go through on a daily basis, and just

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<v Speaker 2>how important they are to what we you know, serving

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<v Speaker 2>our community and everything that they do. What what was

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<v Speaker 2>your impetus to want to even be a police officer

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<v Speaker 2>to start? And then what made you deviate from that?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>So so basically I always wanted to help people and

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<v Speaker 1>that was my biggest thing. And you know, I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>fantastic at school. I definitely wasn't. I you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>played college lacrosse, and I always attest to the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that if I didn't play a sport, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>needed structure in my life and like some like aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of it. And I was thinking about, you know, because

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<v Speaker 1>I was getting recruited to like the Army and Navy,

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<v Speaker 1>the play lacrosse and I always wanted to be a

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<v Speaker 1>military guy, and you know that didn't obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>go down the path I wanted to. So when I

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<v Speaker 1>graduated college, I was working at an advertising agency just

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<v Speaker 1>like right like right aft school, and then I got

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<v Speaker 1>the call for NYPD. I got, like, you know, to

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<v Speaker 1>start the process. So I went through the entire process,

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<v Speaker 1>went through everything, and then eventually as I got to

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<v Speaker 1>the academy and stuff like that, and after I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of had a conversation with a high level police officer

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<v Speaker 1>who knew that I was a medium, like just based

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<v Speaker 1>on like a like a family friend, like he knew

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<v Speaker 1>I was doing this kind of like privately on the side.

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't really sharing it with anyone at that time

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<v Speaker 1>besides like like personal family friends and you know, things

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<v Speaker 1>like that. And he pulled me aside and had a

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<v Speaker 1>conversation with me, and he was like, when you develop

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<v Speaker 1>your gift, like we want to use you on a

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<v Speaker 1>different way, like protect yourself, protect your family, be able

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<v Speaker 1>to come home at night. He goes, these are things

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<v Speaker 1>that like I had to battle it for twenty five years.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's like, I don't want to put you or

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<v Speaker 1>your family or anyone through that. So he's like, I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to kind of like stop and then kind

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<v Speaker 1>of focus on this, and that's kind of how it

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<v Speaker 1>like happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, So that far into the process and you got

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<v Speaker 2>sort of talked out of it for a greater purpose

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<v Speaker 2>and a greater good to help the department in your

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<v Speaker 2>own way.

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<v Speaker 1>Still, yeah, I still do. I still work very heavily

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<v Speaker 1>with them.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's fascinating. But I want to talk a ton

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<v Speaker 2>about that. But before so, you were already doing some

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<v Speaker 2>side work as a medium. But at what age did

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<v Speaker 2>you realize there was something here that you had a gift?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so when I was really young. A long story

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<v Speaker 1>shortened my pass when I was about six months old,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I never really got to like obviously know her. Besides,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, my family had pictures of her, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know which I'm I'm sure many families have with

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<v Speaker 1>their like you know, relatives have crossed over, passed away, whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, when I was about probably around four,

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<v Speaker 1>four or five, I it was Easter Sunday. My mom says,

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<v Speaker 1>she'll never forget this. It was Easter Sunday and my grandfather,

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<v Speaker 1>their father, we were sitting on the couch about to

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<v Speaker 1>have dinner. And I walk up to him and I go,

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<v Speaker 1>Susan's here, like ann, Susie's here. And my Grandpa's like, okay, cool,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like one of those He's like cool. And

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<v Speaker 1>he's like this little kid over here, you know, imagination,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, And and then I started going. I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, she's grabbing like a jacket, like and I

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<v Speaker 1>kept pointing at like a like a denim and I

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<v Speaker 1>kept saying, she's, you know, you know, grabbing this. And

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather's like, what the hell is he talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>And my mom starts crying. I starts crying, and then

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<v Speaker 1>my grandfather's like, really, like what is this kid talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>So my mom like walked up to us and go

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess I she like pushed me aside because

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<v Speaker 1>I was so young, and she was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when Susan passed away, they lived together and like Flushing

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<v Speaker 1>Queen's and you know, they would steal each other's clothes

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<v Speaker 1>like that was their thing. They lived together, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was this one denim jacket. There's one denim jacket. And

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<v Speaker 1>after the service happened, like the funeral, everyone went into

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<v Speaker 1>their cars to go to the cemetery, and my mom

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<v Speaker 1>walked back in and buried her in that jean jacket,

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<v Speaker 1>so like no one was in there. So my mom

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<v Speaker 1>like walked to the car. Everyone walked in, and she

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<v Speaker 1>wanted a very like private moment it likes, like she

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want people to know, like, and so when I

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<v Speaker 1>said that, you know, my Grandfa was like, what the

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<v Speaker 1>hell's wrong with this kid? You know, like the typical

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<v Speaker 1>like cause I'm Italian and my family is just like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what was wrong with this kid? Like, Because

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<v Speaker 1>then as I got older, I was starting to see

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<v Speaker 1>things about my family members, like you know, aunts and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, cousins and stuff that I don't think I

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<v Speaker 1>should have known at that age, like very personal things

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<v Speaker 1>about like people.

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<v Speaker 2>That were living still or people that already.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was people that have crossed over that did

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<v Speaker 1>things to people that were living. Got it like very

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<v Speaker 1>intimate things, and I probably shouldn't have known that at

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<v Speaker 1>like a certain age. But then I didn't really understand it.

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<v Speaker 1>So I didn't really know like one, what I was

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<v Speaker 1>seeing in two, like what certain things like truly meant.

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<v Speaker 1>And as I got older, you know, I started to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of realize that, like the people like my friends

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<v Speaker 1>weren't seeing they weren't you know, you know I see more.

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<v Speaker 1>So like it's they weren't seeing the things that I

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<v Speaker 1>was seeing. So then I felt like I was weird.

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<v Speaker 1>So I didn't want to share it with anyone, and

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be as normal as you can. So

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<v Speaker 1>I just picked up lacrosse and got big in lacrosse

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<v Speaker 1>and wrestling.

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<v Speaker 2>So you try to push these things to say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what's fascinating to me. So like even for

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<v Speaker 2>your mom to embrace what you said at that age,

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<v Speaker 2>because a lot of parents can also still be like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, John stop like yeah, come on, you're five, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you're not going to fully buy in. She clearly

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<v Speaker 2>brought into something, but maybe I can't imagine she still

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<v Speaker 2>thought at that moment, my son's a medium. She probably

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<v Speaker 2>just thought you had this weird vision that happened and

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<v Speaker 2>it made her emotional. Yeah, so you basically your mom thought, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you maybe had this one off experience, right, and then

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<v Speaker 2>you were keeping things to yourself. But like for the

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<v Speaker 2>average person like me, is it were you, you know, eight, nine,

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<v Speaker 2>ten years old and you were seeing spirits in the house.

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<v Speaker 1>So which is kind of interesting. Is it originated like

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<v Speaker 1>that where I would physically see and it was just

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<v Speaker 1>typically my aunt at the time when I was physically

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<v Speaker 1>seeing it, But then it became I guess I can

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<v Speaker 1>relate it more to this now, like a screen shot

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<v Speaker 1>on your phone. So it was like screenshots in my head.

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<v Speaker 1>So like I was getting like screenshots of like things

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<v Speaker 1>that I didn't really understand what it was, because at

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<v Speaker 1>first it started as like a pictionary, so like I

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<v Speaker 1>would see images.

0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.680
<v Speaker 2>And stuff in like the kitchen, like you just see

0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:01.280
<v Speaker 2>something walk by.

0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well not yeah, kind of, I guess kind of.

0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to understand, like how I would imagine what

0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:07.480
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing.

0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So when I was a kid and I would

0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.439
<v Speaker 1>see my aunt, I would, you know, wake up to

0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.800
<v Speaker 1>use the restroom and stuff, and I would see my

0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.640
<v Speaker 1>aunt down the hall and like waving and I would

0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:18.280
<v Speaker 1>freak out and.

0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Run my mom's room.

0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, I would. I freaked out my mom's like

0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.080
<v Speaker 1>what just happened? And I would like jump under her

0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.000
<v Speaker 1>covers as like a kid, and like I would like

0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:31.200
<v Speaker 1>start shaking and stuff. And then eventually it became less

0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.240
<v Speaker 1>and less and less like it it became less of

0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.679
<v Speaker 1>me seeing physically her versus like seeing things that like

0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 1>are like I guess considered screenshots in your head. But

0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.080
<v Speaker 1>it originated like that just to get my attention I

0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.040
<v Speaker 1>think of like what this gift is, because you know,

0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.640
<v Speaker 1>I like, like I said, even as I was getting older,

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.319
<v Speaker 1>like my first instinct was to ignore it, like it

0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.679
<v Speaker 1>was to like not dive into it. And then when

0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.360
<v Speaker 1>I started doing this a little bit more and I

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.520
<v Speaker 1>was like kind of like looking into it and kind

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.800
<v Speaker 1>of doing it, it became more of like screenshots and

0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 1>then symbols like I would stare at a wall right

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.720
<v Speaker 1>like a blank wall, and then all of a sudden,

0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I would see images of like like an anchor, which

0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.880
<v Speaker 1>meant like navy, and then it would go from an

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 1>anchor to I would see a jo so like for John,

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm using my name Massing example, and then it kind

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.480
<v Speaker 1>of like started slow to go fast because I try

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.680
<v Speaker 1>to explain to people like you're learning a new language,

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 1>I guess, so it's like imagine you're learning Spanish for

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.679
<v Speaker 1>the first time if you don't know Spanish or things

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.800
<v Speaker 1>like that. So it kind of escalate just to get

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>my attention to that.

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.560
<v Speaker 2>So do you think and I mean, now that you

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.080
<v Speaker 2>become more of an expert in this space, do you

0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:52.559
<v Speaker 2>think there's any truth to the fact of if spirits

0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.520
<v Speaker 2>in the afterlife are being recognized and you start accepting

0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.560
<v Speaker 2>it and diving into it more, they might become or

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.760
<v Speaker 2>the sign everything might become more readily available. But if

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you're somebody that's constantly pushing it away, pushing it away, ignore, ignoor, ignore,

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.120
<v Speaker 2>it's very easy that you can maybe just suppress this

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>entire gift and maybe those images, like you said, it

0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.280
<v Speaker 2>went from seeing or to just scenes, it became less

0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.560
<v Speaker 2>the more you ignored it, it became less. Is that possible?

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Definitely? Yeah, I mean it for I think my circumstance

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.280
<v Speaker 1>was different compared to other people, but yes, and mine

0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.680
<v Speaker 1>was like it kept going because they wanted I'm assuming

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 1>they wanted me to be medium. I mean, like again,

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 1>I was in the process for NYPD and stuff, like

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 1>I was pretty far long into it, like with everything,

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know, i'd I try to explain to people

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 1>like I didn't like ask for this, like I wasn't

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.320
<v Speaker 1>like you know, like there's some people that really study

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 1>this and try to like enhance their gift to like

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 1>because everyone has a gift, like everyone can sing, but

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 1>not everyone can sing like Frank Sinatra for sure. But

0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 1>I do think like the more you push it down,

0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the more you're not going to see things, because their

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>whole purpose is like they're not trying to scare you.

0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:04.679
<v Speaker 1>They're not trying to do anything. They're trying to get

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.000
<v Speaker 1>your attention to let you know that they're there. So

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the moment that you start pushing it away, they're like,

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>then why we're not going to like battle someone that

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want, you know, to like see this essentially.

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:16.880
<v Speaker 2>So like when you were in high school, the older

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 2>you were getting and you were doing other things, was

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.040
<v Speaker 2>it still at a lower level or was it continuing

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 2>to fight its way in to your life to where

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 2>you finally, like you said, accepted it and started doing

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:28.040
<v Speaker 2>some stuff on the side.

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it continued to fight its way through. I mean

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, playing lacrosse. I was wrestling, and

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 1>then like things were coming through and I was like,

0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>what the hell is this? You know, like, you know,

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.840
<v Speaker 1>like I'm in the middle of a lacrosse game and

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:42.920
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, I'm seeing a coach on the

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 1>other side, like their brother that passed away and stuff,

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, it was also so distracting, but also

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 1>like I no one validated that I was a medium

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>at that time, so it's like I didn't know if

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>I was mentally ill or not. Like I really was

0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 1>battling that side of things too. I was like, am

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 1>I mentally ill?

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Like?

0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Am I not mentally ill?

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 2>And Yeah, I've always wondered that that has to be

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 2>so much for a young person to wrestle with about like,

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 2>like you said, I'm szophenic one, Am I just seeing things?

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Is this real? Is it not real? Like I'm freaking

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.440
<v Speaker 2>out and to have to rein it all in and

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>still have a normal life. And I'd hear stories from

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 2>different mediums. I've had a couple meetings in the past,

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 2>and I was never somebody fully open to this stuff.

0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 2>My wife is always way more accepting of these things, yea,

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 2>And she got me to try it for the first time.

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.480
<v Speaker 2>And I've had a couple different things happen that were

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 2>pretty remarkable in that sense. But as I've talked to

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 2>some people, they said, yeah, it's often like you could

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 2>be in a room and you're just hearing tons of

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 2>voices like it because you're trying to have a normal dinner.

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's say, but all these people in this restaurant have

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 2>people that want to cross through and speak to them,

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 2>and You're just like, oh my god, let me just

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 2>have dinner with the person I'm with right now. I

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 2>don't need to have all this noise. Is that how

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 2>what it's like for you too?

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I have a funny story about that. I was

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 1>in college and at that time, it was my fifth year.

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 1>I did a fifth year just because I red shirted

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.520
<v Speaker 1>one year, so I wanted to play like my four years.

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 1>And I was in a class and all of a sudden,

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sitting there and like I'm seeing stuff. But it

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 1>was the first week of class. It was like sill

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 1>this week as everyone calls it and stuff, and I

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 1>see my professor and she lost a son. And I

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>never would go up to someone and start saying stuff

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 1>like never, I'm that's not me, Like I don't know

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>what came over me. I'm not really sure. I kind

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 1>of pretended to pack my backpack up like really slow,

0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 1>so like as people are leaving, I'm like slowly putting

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>my stuff away about to go to lacrosse practice, Like

0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm slowly going and then everyone left and I walked

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 1>up to her and I go, you know your son

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 1>and I said his name is here, and I start

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>talking about him and I'm like, wait, I don't even

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 1>know you like believe in mediums or people that do that,

0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 1>and she flipped out like was get out of my

0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 1>class like so like so like yeah, because of that,

0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.600
<v Speaker 1>I've like become a little nervous to like do that

0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 1>to people, because I also realize now that it's such

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 1>a personal thing, like you shouldn't just go up to

0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>someone and bombard someone with something like that, like you

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 1>should always like ask if they're like okay to do it.

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, like anytime I go out, it's like I'm

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>seeing stuff for each person or like there's a bunch

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.800
<v Speaker 1>of like energy. I guess that's in like a bar

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:29.600
<v Speaker 1>because I try to be as normal as possible, like

0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll well have to, I'm sure. Yeah, Like I still

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>play volleyball like the NYPD guys on Wednesdays, like you know,

0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.280
<v Speaker 1>like I still do that. So it's kind of like

0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>if I'm around everyone and it's just so much energy

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.879
<v Speaker 1>that's coming at you, it's like do you do that?

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you not? I'm like, nah, I'm not doing anymore.

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, no more of that for sure. And let

0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.680
<v Speaker 2>me ask you this, is it different when you're inny

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>physical place? Because I've had readings face to face with somebody,

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and I've had it over the phone, yeah, and never

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 2>on a podcast. I don't know a video. But is

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 2>it different if you're in the physical presence of the

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>person or it doesn't matter. You just need to sort

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.680
<v Speaker 2>of see that person and see their energy or or

0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it is and things will still happen.

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.879
<v Speaker 1>So I will say this like the reading side, like, no,

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.800
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty similar the intimacy. The intimacy side, sorry, is

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:20.879
<v Speaker 1>a little different. Like when you're doing it in person,

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.000
<v Speaker 1>it's way more intimate because you're sitting with the person

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 1>face to face. And what I struggle with is like

0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:30.920
<v Speaker 1>when I because I have clients like everywhere, so it's

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>like I have to do through zoom and I don't

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.679
<v Speaker 1>want them to feel like it's so transactional. And I

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.120
<v Speaker 1>think that's that's where I kind of struggle with with

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:40.879
<v Speaker 1>that because I don't want it to be transactional. This

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>is like an intimate experience, so it's like I want

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 1>it to feel that way, but when it comes like

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.119
<v Speaker 1>the actual reading portion of it, it's it's the same.

0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.919
<v Speaker 1>I would think it's just like the intimacy factors like

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 1>a little thrown off with it.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense. And when you now you have this

0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>total not would it's called a side profession, but you know,

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.720
<v Speaker 2>an aspect act in an arm to your profession of

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:06.239
<v Speaker 2>working with law enforcement FBI, NYPD tell him. I mean,

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there are tons of stories that you could share,

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.680
<v Speaker 2>but is there like any one in particular that you,

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.919
<v Speaker 2>without question they caught the person, found the whatever it

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 2>was because of your direct involvement that led to that

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>that result of a cold case closing. Yeah.

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.119
<v Speaker 1>So I think the one that people know me probably

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 1>the most about that get Abbybatito side of things, when

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I helped locate the body and I helped kind of

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 1>navigate to find Brian Laundry at the time because he

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:38.960
<v Speaker 1>was on the run.

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 2>For a very long time. Yeah, he was the he

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 2>was the it was his name. Oh yeah, that's right,

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 2>that's right. This is the one that was out in

0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 2>the desert when they found her body and the parents

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.680
<v Speaker 2>were involved, right yeah, yeah, so.

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's it's kind of like so I I

0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.280
<v Speaker 1>did the stuff with like the readings and stuff with

0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.280
<v Speaker 1>like law law enforcement, and and I kept saying about

0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the parents and like this things like that, and they're

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.120
<v Speaker 1>like there's no way, there's no way. And even when

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.639
<v Speaker 1>the parents were, you know, being a little weird, and

0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 1>then all of a sudden they jumped right into like

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.120
<v Speaker 1>help the church. I kept saying, I'm like no, no, no,

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.160
<v Speaker 1>the like blah blah blah. And I explained like how

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.800
<v Speaker 1>he was going to do it, and like how not

0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.679
<v Speaker 1>far away he is, so like they're looking at crazy distances,

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 1>like he traveled all the way up to like the Carolinas.

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.360
<v Speaker 1>And for people that don't know they were in Florida,

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>so like for him to go from Florida on foot

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>to the Carolinas, that's one a little like crazy. Yeah,

0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.000
<v Speaker 1>But I was kind of like doing that stuff. And

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 1>then once it got solved, that's when I got a

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 1>little bit of like, you know, their respect on with

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.359
<v Speaker 1>these different like agencies, because like the FBI has like

0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.360
<v Speaker 1>the New York sector, the Florida sectors Wyoming, like they're

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.679
<v Speaker 1>all very different. And even with the law enforcements that

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 1>were involved in this case, there was like three to

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>four different like law enforcements from Utah to Wyoming to

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Larda and all these different places. So it was interesting

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.119
<v Speaker 1>because I couldn't even speak about it for like a

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.679
<v Speaker 1>really long time because the case was still like ongoing

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.040
<v Speaker 1>on like a like a legal matter. So then when

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>I was able to, I was able to like take

0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.800
<v Speaker 1>a picture of like Gabby's mom and like finally meet her.

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>And it was complicated. It kept crossing jurisdictions everywhere that

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.840
<v Speaker 2>he went everywhere there. Yeah, it was a big mess

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.000
<v Speaker 2>that side, on the on the you know, legal side

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.760
<v Speaker 2>of things. Yeah, so you kept pointing the finger at

0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 2>the parents saying, there's something more to explore here, there's

0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.439
<v Speaker 2>something more to explore here. And did you know quickly

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.400
<v Speaker 2>like you knew it was them or you just knew

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.359
<v Speaker 2>that there was more information that they needed to share

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and that they needed to take it serious the police.

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so basically when they when I helped find Gabby's

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.880
<v Speaker 1>like like body and stuff, it was the part two

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.439
<v Speaker 1>of like obviously the manhunt of like Brian Laundry. But

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.639
<v Speaker 1>then also like there was also like a lot of

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 1>different factors of like who was involved as far as

0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:00.000
<v Speaker 1>like who knew what was going on and just all

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 1>all this stuff. So like after I kept pointing at

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>the parents and I was just like, you know, they're

0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.159
<v Speaker 1>leading you on a wild goose chase right now, like

0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 1>they are. And I go, not just like literally, but

0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.879
<v Speaker 1>like in every way like mentally and everything like you

0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.639
<v Speaker 1>and They're like, no way, no way, like their attorneys

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:19.280
<v Speaker 1>doing this. No way, no way, no way. And I'm

0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 1>like no, no, no, Like I go listen. I know

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not amissible in any way, but I might just

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 1>trust me on this. So we were going back and

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.120
<v Speaker 1>forth a little bit, and then like eventually it all

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.760
<v Speaker 1>came to fruition that like the parents knew from the

0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.440
<v Speaker 1>moment it happened, and yeah, everything.

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Are you able to share what gave you that knowledge?

0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Like is that was it her? Yeah?

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:43.840
<v Speaker 1>So when I connected to Gabby, when she became connected

0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to her, yeah, So so basically what happened was I

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 1>was contacted weeks or like a week before they found

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 1>her body probably, so like they still thought that she

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 1>was possibly alive, Like they thought that there was not

0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 1>like there was a chance that she was alive. And

0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.119
<v Speaker 1>it was hard for me to like say this, but

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 1>like like when I was doing this. I spoke to

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.159
<v Speaker 1>the like one of the law enforcement people, and I

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 1>asked like everyone to kind of get off the like

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 1>the zoom because it was through zoom, and I said,

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I go, hey, if I'm connecting with someone, that's not

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.640
<v Speaker 1>a good sign. That means that they're not here.

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Let me back it up for a second. Before they

0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:28.239
<v Speaker 2>reached out to you, because you said it's a week

0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:32.800
<v Speaker 2>before they found the body. Yeah, were you putting yourself

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.160
<v Speaker 2>out there already going like doing the work to try

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.240
<v Speaker 2>to to find her? Or did did like what made

0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 2>you how did you get involved? And yeah? And A

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 2>and then B did you have to like give pick

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 2>where they giving you know, items to you of her

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.120
<v Speaker 2>or pictures of her? Or is something that would make

0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:52.200
<v Speaker 2>you have to try to I'm assuming put an effort

0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 2>into to tap into her spirit, right versus you're just

0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you weren't just up in New York or you weren't

0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:58.920
<v Speaker 2>playing lacrosse and all of a sudden, you know, she's

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:00.919
<v Speaker 2>in your ear, like you had to put some effort

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:02.920
<v Speaker 2>out to go make that connection. Yeah.

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 1>So I went on someone else's podcast and they asked

0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 1>me about it, and I just said, like, it's hard

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.800
<v Speaker 1>for me to do anything if I'm not speaking to

0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 1>someone that's related to them, because like, I don't want

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 1>to cross a line. And then an FBI person that

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 1>I know, I guess heard it and they reached out

0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:22.719
<v Speaker 1>and they and I spoke to someone that was a

0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:26.440
<v Speaker 1>family member of Gabby's and that's how I was able

0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.600
<v Speaker 1>to connect because it was really direct and like again,

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.840
<v Speaker 1>like that's how I became close with Gabby's mom, Nicole,

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>because of stuff like you know, like we weren't allowed

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 1>to talk to each other, yeah, for like a year

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and a half, and then they gave us the green

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 1>light to talk. And then she came back to Long

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:46.119
<v Speaker 1>Island because she originally was from Long Island, and I

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.159
<v Speaker 1>met up with her and her kids and like everyone

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.119
<v Speaker 1>because it was such an interesting relationship where I do

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 1>my reading. Then I don't speak there ever again, you know,

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.119
<v Speaker 1>like because they wanted to keep us like separate. They

0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't want us to I guess developed like a friendship

0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 1>because it could blur lines of things.

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.120
<v Speaker 2>For sure, could dilute the case and evidence and yeah,

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.120
<v Speaker 2>probably just make things less credible in the long run

0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:09.280
<v Speaker 2>of you guys, exactly what makesure isolating? So it's like

0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.720
<v Speaker 2>a one off experience. I'm getting information for you. It's

0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:14.360
<v Speaker 2>a transaction, you're doing your doing business. Yeah.

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was like a ten to fifteen minute thing

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:18.119
<v Speaker 1>and then they would click it off and then that

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't hear from them for like a little bit.

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 2>But as soon as you met with that family member,

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:23.159
<v Speaker 2>as soon as you met with the family member, you

0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:24.159
<v Speaker 2>connected and knew she was.

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.959
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty fast on. Yeah, it was pretty fast on.

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:30.800
<v Speaker 1>It was probably like like four minutes in, like you know,

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 1>like enough for me to be like, this is uncomfortable

0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>for me to say something when everyone is like on,

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, like, and that's when I wanted to I

0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.280
<v Speaker 1>wanted to respect every party that was involved when I

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 1>was doing it, So I tried to do it in

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.359
<v Speaker 1>the like the best way that I knew, which was

0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:51.880
<v Speaker 1>like say it to someone personally before it goes right

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:56.240
<v Speaker 1>into work kind of with it. And yeah, it was.

0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 1>It was a little uncomfortable. I'm not gonna like lie

0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:00.439
<v Speaker 1>because I didn't want to be the one on to

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:01.560
<v Speaker 1>like say any like.

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, yeah, yeah, no, I hear you.

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:04.840
<v Speaker 1>It was really uncomfortable.

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Was that your first ever interaction with law enforcement or

0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.160
<v Speaker 2>had you already been doing little things with law enforcement.

0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:11.280
<v Speaker 1>I was already doing stuff with them.

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:13.480
<v Speaker 2>You were already working with IPD and all that.

0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I got the like everything is like in

0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:19.880
<v Speaker 1>that world when you do it's like word of mouth,

0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Like it doesn't matter about anything. It matters about word

0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 1>of mouth. Who you've helped, how you helped, and like, yeah,

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.760
<v Speaker 1>it's just like they they're skeptical but open minded, if

0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 1>that makes sense. Like they they believe in it, but

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:36.679
<v Speaker 1>they have to see it to believe it and see

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:38.919
<v Speaker 1>like movement to believe it. Like they're not just gonna

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:40.800
<v Speaker 1>like take off of someone.

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.639
<v Speaker 2>So especially when it's something so severe, I mean so serious,

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.120
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, Like you're talking about someone

0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.280
<v Speaker 2>going to jail, not going to jail. You know, they're

0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>using this as part of their evidence. It's a lot.

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 2>So in other cases you've worked on, Yeah, have you

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:58.679
<v Speaker 2>also complete cold cases that have been you know, skipped

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:01.200
<v Speaker 2>over for years they couldn't have more information. They bring

0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:02.760
<v Speaker 2>you in and you start talking to them and you

0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 2>help them put pieces together that actually read led to

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>an arrest as well. Yeah.

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.440
<v Speaker 1>So there's a bunch of cases where like I try

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>to explain to people like I'm never their first option,

0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm always their last typically, and it's typically to help

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:18.160
<v Speaker 1>them go down a different avenue of sorts to kind

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>of like keep a case either kind of moving along,

0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:23.879
<v Speaker 1>or to help like make an arrest for someone. And

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:25.959
<v Speaker 1>there's been like a new like a couple of cases

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 1>where some of the things I said led to it,

0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:32.639
<v Speaker 1>like an arrest. I got flown out to like Lima,

0:27:32.760 --> 0:27:36.719
<v Speaker 1>Ohio like randomly by one of the sheriffs like people,

0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:41.920
<v Speaker 1>and they literally block like they gave me a fake address,

0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.399
<v Speaker 1>like they didn't want me to know anything. So I

0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.199
<v Speaker 1>flew into like I think Dayton Airport if that's like

0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:50.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not even sure, and someone picked me up, drove

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:52.800
<v Speaker 1>me for like two hours. I had no idea where

0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I was. They put me in a hotel and then

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:58.000
<v Speaker 1>they're like, well, come and grab you in the morning.

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 1>So they grabbed me in the morning. They blindfolded me

0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 1>because they don't want me to like know where I'm

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 1>going to like google like an address, because if I

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:08.840
<v Speaker 1>google an address and I could probably google the case

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 1>and you can always backtrack kind of like what it is.

0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:15.320
<v Speaker 1>They pulled me up and just so I'm sure, I mean,

0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know this. I don't know if you know,

0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:19.320
<v Speaker 1>but like lime Ohios are very like industrial area, so

0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.040
<v Speaker 1>there's industrial plants everywhere, so where they make my car

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.920
<v Speaker 1>parts and like everything. And they pulled me in into

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.280
<v Speaker 1>like an industrial lot and then they took my blindfold

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.840
<v Speaker 1>off and they're like, here's another one, and they put

0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:35.439
<v Speaker 1>it on, and then they drove me like wow, to

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:38.000
<v Speaker 1>like a they lived in, like in a trailer home,

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess, but it was creepy, at least for me

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:45.479
<v Speaker 1>because when I walked in, it's just like imagine like

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 1>you walk into like a shell of a house. They

0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>took all pictures, all furniture, like gone, like they took everything.

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:52.880
<v Speaker 1>They didn't want me to know who I was talking to,

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 1>what was going on, nothing, And I said some stuff

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 1>about this case. This case was this guy was outside

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:06.080
<v Speaker 1>smoking a cigarette and there was a hidden run and

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:09.479
<v Speaker 1>the way that the body was positioned was like it

0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>was like if someone took a baseball bat to the

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>back of your head and they put the hood up

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 1>there's no blood on it, and laid him on his side.

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 2>You're seeing all this the moment you walked into the

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>trailer bar.

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 1>No, so like the When I walked in, I saw

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:22.560
<v Speaker 1>was the son and I saw the impact to the

0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 1>back of the head, and then I was helping to

0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:28.760
<v Speaker 1>like uncover, like yeah, and then they kind of filled

0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 1>me in after. They're like, this is where it happened.

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Where you pointed to the edge of the driveway, that's

0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:35.160
<v Speaker 1>actually where it was happened. They're like, you're right, and

0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>then they're like and then they start showing me pictures

0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 1>after because they wanted me to see what I was

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 1>like talking about. And I was saying someone's name over

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:46.719
<v Speaker 1>and over again. I kept saying this guy's name. I

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't hear from them for like eight months, and that

0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 1>happens a lot where I don't hear from them for

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 1>a long time. I get a call from the mom

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 1>and the sheriff and they're like, the person that you said,

0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 1>who we skipped over so much, is actually a lead.

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:01.960
<v Speaker 1>So now based on some of the stuff you bring

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 1>us to our attention, gaining footage from what you were

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.760
<v Speaker 1>saying and stuff, he was there that night and he

0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 1>said he wasn't there that night, and they're like, we

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 1>saw him in the car because I kept saying, I'm

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:15.600
<v Speaker 1>like he was involved. I don't know if he did it,

0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:18.040
<v Speaker 1>but I'm like, he's your key person to get to

0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:19.800
<v Speaker 1>who you need to get to, but you need to

0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 1>start at this person, and they did and they were

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 1>able to. I don't know how far along they are

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 1>now made. I just I heard from them like a

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 1>couple of months ago about it, so I don't know

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:32.360
<v Speaker 1>how far I put at least exactly because they like

0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.840
<v Speaker 1>skipped over him because they thought, like based on relationship.

0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.719
<v Speaker 1>They're like, there's no way that that's possible, and like

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.200
<v Speaker 1>he has an alibi, so they're like, there's no way

0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:44.040
<v Speaker 1>relationship and alibi you put that together. They're like no.

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:48.480
<v Speaker 1>And also people don't realize that when you go into

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 1>like these smaller towns, their police departments have like twenty

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:56.080
<v Speaker 1>two people max. So they're stretched so thin, so they

0:30:56.080 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 1>don't even like have resources to even like continue cases.

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>So it was like a really interesting thing for me

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 1>just to be blindfolded and kind of going. I mean, yeah,

0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 1>I was freaking out, Like I was calling I'm not

0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:10.680
<v Speaker 1>gonna lie. I called my mom.

0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was like I may not come back. I'm

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 2>trying to help some people, but.

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm like I'm like this, I'm like, I don't

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 1>know what you have to do, but you may have

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>to find me. I'm like, wow, yeah, it was freaky.

0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:24.560
<v Speaker 2>This is I mean, I could go on for hours

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 2>with you. This has blows my mind. We're gonna wrap

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 2>up this first part of the show, and I know

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.320
<v Speaker 2>the producers have talked about I guess you're gonna talk

0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:37.040
<v Speaker 2>with me about some stuff. But sure, thank you this again.

0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to come on your show. I want

0:31:38.480 --> 0:31:40.640
<v Speaker 2>to talk more about this stuff. I'm blown away by

0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:43.480
<v Speaker 2>it all. But thank you for sharing about all this.

0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah all right, Wow, that was fascinating with Jonathan. I

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 2>can't wait to dive into our second episode where I

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 2>get my reading. But listen. Thank you for checking us

0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 2>out for always listening to our podcast. If you have

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:58.280
<v Speaker 2>something you want to talk to us about, send us

0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 2>d ms, and he said ad or email us at

0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Ericanros at iHeartRadio dot com. Until next time. Thanks for listening.

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget to write us a review and tell us

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 2>what you think.

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:10.239
<v Speaker 3>If you want to follow us on Instagram, check us

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<v Speaker 3>out at e said ajab or sens At email Eric

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<v Speaker 3>and Ross at iHeartRadio dot com. He said, Ajabo is

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<v Speaker 3>part of iHeartRadio's Miculduda podcast Network.

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<v Speaker 2>See you next time. Bye,