Speaker 1: This is he said, a ya viho with Eric Winter
Speaker 1: and Rosalind fantev.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to another episode of he said,
Speaker 2: He said, because my wife is going to be gone
Speaker 2: still for another month. This is ongoing, this new series.
Speaker 2: Are we liking this he said? He said, No, I
Speaker 2: missed my wife. She needs me back. Listen. I just
Speaker 2: got back from Puerto Rico. She's crushing it out there
Speaker 2: directing her movie. I'm so proud of her. A lot
Speaker 2: of work. She has no breaks. I've never seen her
Speaker 2: work so hard. But I truly couldn't be more happy
Speaker 2: for her. Everything coming together. My experience in the movie
Speaker 2: was very interesting because I spoke a lot of Spanish
Speaker 2: that I normally would not speak. Not a lot of Spanish,
Speaker 2: but way too much for me to be acting with Spanish.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that much. It is so tough
Speaker 2: acting in another language. I have so much respect now
Speaker 2: and I understand, you know, for Roslin, her first language
Speaker 2: is Spanish. She obviously learned English a bit more in
Speaker 2: her twenties, but like to speak in another to act
Speaker 2: in another language, hit everything the right way with the
Speaker 2: intentions and try to eliminate an accent. I mean I
Speaker 2: probably sounded ridiculous half the time. I was so nervous.
Speaker 2: Twenty years in this business and I was probably some
Speaker 2: of my most nerve wracking scenes were acting in Spanish.
Speaker 2: But I made it to Puerto Rico. Long story short,
Speaker 2: it was a disaster to get there. I had my
Speaker 2: flight canceled twice. Went to one airport, they canceled my
Speaker 2: flight when I got to the lounge they had and
Speaker 2: I had to work the next morning after a red eye,
Speaker 2: so they had to give me a cab certificate to
Speaker 2: get me to a different airport to then jump on
Speaker 2: a plane and finally make it there after a red
Speaker 2: eye and then go straight to work. So it was
Speaker 2: a whirlwind week, but great to see the wife and
Speaker 2: see her in her element doing great things. And we
Speaker 2: shall be back an action on the show soon. Look today,
Speaker 2: well for this episode, we have a two part episode
Speaker 2: coming up. But this, this episode coming up is exciting
Speaker 2: to me. And you know, we've talked about this many
Speaker 2: times that I'm not the Fufu or the wouie one
Speaker 2: like we know with all this stuff mediums and psychics
Speaker 2: and all that, like my wife, but I've become more
Speaker 2: open to this stuff and I definitely believe that people
Speaker 2: can communicate with the afterlife. I do believe it's possible
Speaker 2: because I've had some wild experiences in my you know,
Speaker 2: and a few different sessions I've had with various mediums
Speaker 2: and psychics, and it's been spot on things that people
Speaker 2: could never know. And I'm so excited. We have a
Speaker 2: guest today on the show, Jonathan Mark, who's one of
Speaker 2: the world's most sought after mediums. He initially pursued a
Speaker 2: career to be a police officer, which is amazing to me,
Speaker 2: and somehow that shifted over into being a medium. So
Speaker 2: I can't wait to dive in about that. But you know,
Speaker 2: the fact that he wanted to be a cop, I'm
Speaker 2: all for it. I want to hear you know, being
Speaker 2: a rookie member here, I have so much respect for
Speaker 2: law enforcement and everything I've learned. And now he actually
Speaker 2: works with law enforcement, the NYPD, FBI in particular to
Speaker 2: help solve some true crime cases. A lot of them
Speaker 2: are cold cases, and he uses his abilities to help
Speaker 2: solve the crime. And I can't wait to dive in
Speaker 2: about that. I'm fascinated by it. He also has a podcast,
Speaker 2: first season out, Connect with Jonathan Mark, which launched July thirtieth.
Speaker 2: This is going to be a lot of fun. He's
Speaker 2: going to actually do a reading with me, So I'm
Speaker 2: a little nervous to see what happens. One time I
Speaker 2: had a reading and nobody showed up, like the meetium
Speaker 2: was like, sorry, there's nobody that wants to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Was wild. It was wild nobody. But the last time
Speaker 2: I had a reading, my dad was clearly there. So
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens. Let's bring him in listen. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on, he said, Aado. I
Speaker 2: know you also have your own podcast. I'll start right
Speaker 2: away with that Connect with Jonathan Mark, which you just
Speaker 2: launched July thirtieth, exciting, diving in a bunch of readings
Speaker 2: with and I know you've actually one of my co stars,
Speaker 2: Jenna Duwan I think did a reading with you, which
Speaker 2: I have to talk to her about that. I want
Speaker 2: to hear all about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we didn't get to record yet.
Speaker 2: Oh she's going to be coming on.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I read her a while back and we
Speaker 1: were going to do a project together, and with her
Speaker 1: schedule and having a baby kind of put a little
Speaker 1: you know, a little hinder on things, which is completely justified.
Speaker 2: So for sure, Now I wanted one of the things
Speaker 2: that my producers brought it to me right away, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to jump in about this. Is that. Sure,
Speaker 2: so you became a medium, but before that, you actually
Speaker 2: wanted to become a police officer. Yeah. And I work
Speaker 2: on a show all about cops, so I have I
Speaker 2: have mad respect for cops and what they've you know,
Speaker 2: what they go through on a daily basis, and just
Speaker 2: how important they are to what we you know, serving
Speaker 2: our community and everything that they do. What what was
Speaker 2: your impetus to want to even be a police officer
Speaker 2: to start? And then what made you deviate from that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So so basically I always wanted to help people and
Speaker 1: that was my biggest thing. And you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: fantastic at school. I definitely wasn't. I you know, I
Speaker 1: played college lacrosse, and I always attest to the fact
Speaker 1: that if I didn't play a sport, you know, I
Speaker 1: needed structure in my life and like some like aspect
Speaker 1: of it. And I was thinking about, you know, because
Speaker 1: I was getting recruited to like the Army and Navy,
Speaker 1: the play lacrosse and I always wanted to be a
Speaker 1: military guy, and you know that didn't obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: go down the path I wanted to. So when I
Speaker 1: graduated college, I was working at an advertising agency just
Speaker 1: like right like right aft school, and then I got
Speaker 1: the call for NYPD. I got, like, you know, to
Speaker 1: start the process. So I went through the entire process,
Speaker 1: went through everything, and then eventually as I got to
Speaker 1: the academy and stuff like that, and after I kind
Speaker 1: of had a conversation with a high level police officer
Speaker 1: who knew that I was a medium, like just based
Speaker 1: on like a like a family friend, like he knew
Speaker 1: I was doing this kind of like privately on the side.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really sharing it with anyone at that time
Speaker 1: besides like like personal family friends and you know, things
Speaker 1: like that. And he pulled me aside and had a
Speaker 1: conversation with me, and he was like, when you develop
Speaker 1: your gift, like we want to use you on a
Speaker 1: different way, like protect yourself, protect your family, be able
Speaker 1: to come home at night. He goes, these are things
Speaker 1: that like I had to battle it for twenty five years.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't want to put you or
Speaker 1: your family or anyone through that. So he's like, I
Speaker 1: want you to kind of like stop and then kind
Speaker 1: of focus on this, and that's kind of how it
Speaker 1: like happened.
Speaker 2: Wow, So that far into the process and you got
Speaker 2: sort of talked out of it for a greater purpose
Speaker 2: and a greater good to help the department in your
Speaker 2: own way.
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, I still do. I still work very heavily
Speaker 1: with them.
Speaker 2: So that's fascinating. But I want to talk a ton
Speaker 2: about that. But before so, you were already doing some
Speaker 2: side work as a medium. But at what age did
Speaker 2: you realize there was something here that you had a gift?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when I was really young. A long story
Speaker 1: shortened my pass when I was about six months old,
Speaker 1: and so I never really got to like obviously know her. Besides,
Speaker 1: like you know, my family had pictures of her, and
Speaker 1: you know which I'm I'm sure many families have with
Speaker 1: their like you know, relatives have crossed over, passed away, whatever.
Speaker 1: And you know, when I was about probably around four,
Speaker 1: four or five, I it was Easter Sunday. My mom says,
Speaker 1: she'll never forget this. It was Easter Sunday and my grandfather,
Speaker 1: their father, we were sitting on the couch about to
Speaker 1: have dinner. And I walk up to him and I go,
Speaker 1: Susan's here, like ann, Susie's here. And my Grandpa's like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: you know, like one of those He's like cool. And
Speaker 1: he's like this little kid over here, you know, imagination,
Speaker 1: you know, And and then I started going. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's grabbing like a jacket, like and I
Speaker 1: kept pointing at like a like a denim and I
Speaker 1: kept saying, she's, you know, you know, grabbing this. And
Speaker 1: my grandfather's like, what the hell is he talking about?
Speaker 1: And my mom starts crying. I starts crying, and then
Speaker 1: my grandfather's like, really, like what is this kid talking about?
Speaker 1: So my mom like walked up to us and go
Speaker 1: and I guess I she like pushed me aside because
Speaker 1: I was so young, and she was like, you know,
Speaker 1: when Susan passed away, they lived together and like Flushing
Speaker 1: Queen's and you know, they would steal each other's clothes
Speaker 1: like that was their thing. They lived together, and there
Speaker 1: was this one denim jacket. There's one denim jacket. And
Speaker 1: after the service happened, like the funeral, everyone went into
Speaker 1: their cars to go to the cemetery, and my mom
Speaker 1: walked back in and buried her in that jean jacket,
Speaker 1: so like no one was in there. So my mom
Speaker 1: like walked to the car. Everyone walked in, and she
Speaker 1: wanted a very like private moment it likes, like she
Speaker 1: didn't want people to know, like, and so when I
Speaker 1: said that, you know, my Grandfa was like, what the
Speaker 1: hell's wrong with this kid? You know, like the typical
Speaker 1: like cause I'm Italian and my family is just like,
Speaker 1: you know, what was wrong with this kid? Like, Because
Speaker 1: then as I got older, I was starting to see
Speaker 1: things about my family members, like you know, aunts and
Speaker 1: you know, cousins and stuff that I don't think I
Speaker 1: should have known at that age, like very personal things
Speaker 1: about like people.
Speaker 2: That were living still or people that already.
Speaker 1: So it was people that have crossed over that did
Speaker 1: things to people that were living. Got it like very
Speaker 1: intimate things, and I probably shouldn't have known that at
Speaker 1: like a certain age. But then I didn't really understand it.
Speaker 1: So I didn't really know like one, what I was
Speaker 1: seeing in two, like what certain things like truly meant.
Speaker 1: And as I got older, you know, I started to
Speaker 1: kind of realize that, like the people like my friends
Speaker 1: weren't seeing they weren't you know, you know I see more.
Speaker 1: So like it's they weren't seeing the things that I
Speaker 1: was seeing. So then I felt like I was weird.
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to share it with anyone, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to be as normal as you can. So
Speaker 1: I just picked up lacrosse and got big in lacrosse
Speaker 1: and wrestling.
Speaker 2: So you try to push these things to say, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is what's fascinating to me. So like even for
Speaker 2: your mom to embrace what you said at that age,
Speaker 2: because a lot of parents can also still be like,
Speaker 2: you know, John stop like yeah, come on, you're five, right,
Speaker 2: Like you're not going to fully buy in. She clearly
Speaker 2: brought into something, but maybe I can't imagine she still
Speaker 2: thought at that moment, my son's a medium. She probably
Speaker 2: just thought you had this weird vision that happened and
Speaker 2: it made her emotional. Yeah, so you basically your mom thought, okay,
Speaker 2: you maybe had this one off experience, right, and then
Speaker 2: you were keeping things to yourself. But like for the
Speaker 2: average person like me, is it were you, you know, eight, nine,
Speaker 2: ten years old and you were seeing spirits in the house.
Speaker 1: So which is kind of interesting. Is it originated like
Speaker 1: that where I would physically see and it was just
Speaker 1: typically my aunt at the time when I was physically
Speaker 1: seeing it, But then it became I guess I can
Speaker 1: relate it more to this now, like a screen shot
Speaker 1: on your phone. So it was like screenshots in my head.
Speaker 1: So like I was getting like screenshots of like things
Speaker 1: that I didn't really understand what it was, because at
Speaker 1: first it started as like a pictionary, so like I
Speaker 1: would see images.
Speaker 2: And stuff in like the kitchen, like you just see
Speaker 2: something walk by.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well not yeah, kind of, I guess kind of.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to understand, like how I would imagine what
Speaker 2: you're seeing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when I was a kid and I would
Speaker 1: see my aunt, I would, you know, wake up to
Speaker 1: use the restroom and stuff, and I would see my
Speaker 1: aunt down the hall and like waving and I would
Speaker 1: freak out and.
Speaker 2: Run my mom's room.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I would. I freaked out my mom's like
Speaker 1: what just happened? And I would like jump under her
Speaker 1: covers as like a kid, and like I would like
Speaker 1: start shaking and stuff. And then eventually it became less
Speaker 1: and less and less like it it became less of
Speaker 1: me seeing physically her versus like seeing things that like
Speaker 1: are like I guess considered screenshots in your head. But
Speaker 1: it originated like that just to get my attention I
Speaker 1: think of like what this gift is, because you know,
Speaker 1: I like, like I said, even as I was getting older,
Speaker 1: like my first instinct was to ignore it, like it
Speaker 1: was to like not dive into it. And then when
Speaker 1: I started doing this a little bit more and I
Speaker 1: was like kind of like looking into it and kind
Speaker 1: of doing it, it became more of like screenshots and
Speaker 1: then symbols like I would stare at a wall right
Speaker 1: like a blank wall, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I would see images of like like an anchor, which
Speaker 1: meant like navy, and then it would go from an
Speaker 1: anchor to I would see a jo so like for John,
Speaker 1: I'm using my name Massing example, and then it kind
Speaker 1: of like started slow to go fast because I try
Speaker 1: to explain to people like you're learning a new language,
Speaker 1: I guess, so it's like imagine you're learning Spanish for
Speaker 1: the first time if you don't know Spanish or things
Speaker 1: like that. So it kind of escalate just to get
Speaker 1: my attention to that.
Speaker 2: So do you think and I mean, now that you
Speaker 2: become more of an expert in this space, do you
Speaker 2: think there's any truth to the fact of if spirits
Speaker 2: in the afterlife are being recognized and you start accepting
Speaker 2: it and diving into it more, they might become or
Speaker 2: the sign everything might become more readily available. But if
Speaker 2: you're somebody that's constantly pushing it away, pushing it away, ignore, ignoor, ignore,
Speaker 2: it's very easy that you can maybe just suppress this
Speaker 2: entire gift and maybe those images, like you said, it
Speaker 2: went from seeing or to just scenes, it became less
Speaker 2: the more you ignored it, it became less. Is that possible?
Speaker 1: Definitely? Yeah, I mean it for I think my circumstance
Speaker 1: was different compared to other people, but yes, and mine
Speaker 1: was like it kept going because they wanted I'm assuming
Speaker 1: they wanted me to be medium. I mean, like again,
Speaker 1: I was in the process for NYPD and stuff, like
Speaker 1: I was pretty far long into it, like with everything,
Speaker 1: and you know, i'd I try to explain to people
Speaker 1: like I didn't like ask for this, like I wasn't
Speaker 1: like you know, like there's some people that really study
Speaker 1: this and try to like enhance their gift to like
Speaker 1: because everyone has a gift, like everyone can sing, but
Speaker 1: not everyone can sing like Frank Sinatra for sure. But
Speaker 1: I do think like the more you push it down,
Speaker 1: the more you're not going to see things, because their
Speaker 1: whole purpose is like they're not trying to scare you.
Speaker 1: They're not trying to do anything. They're trying to get
Speaker 1: your attention to let you know that they're there. So
Speaker 1: the moment that you start pushing it away, they're like,
Speaker 1: then why we're not going to like battle someone that
Speaker 1: doesn't want, you know, to like see this essentially.
Speaker 2: So like when you were in high school, the older
Speaker 2: you were getting and you were doing other things, was
Speaker 2: it still at a lower level or was it continuing
Speaker 2: to fight its way in to your life to where
Speaker 2: you finally, like you said, accepted it and started doing
Speaker 2: some stuff on the side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it continued to fight its way through. I mean
Speaker 1: I was, you know, playing lacrosse. I was wrestling, and
Speaker 1: then like things were coming through and I was like,
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? You know, like, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm in the middle of a lacrosse game and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm seeing a coach on the
Speaker 1: other side, like their brother that passed away and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, it was also so distracting, but also
Speaker 1: like I no one validated that I was a medium
Speaker 1: at that time, so it's like I didn't know if
Speaker 1: I was mentally ill or not. Like I really was
Speaker 1: battling that side of things too. I was like, am
Speaker 1: I mentally ill?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Am I not mentally ill?
Speaker 2: And Yeah, I've always wondered that that has to be
Speaker 2: so much for a young person to wrestle with about like,
Speaker 2: like you said, I'm szophenic one, Am I just seeing things?
Speaker 2: Is this real? Is it not real? Like I'm freaking
Speaker 2: out and to have to rein it all in and
Speaker 2: still have a normal life. And I'd hear stories from
Speaker 2: different mediums. I've had a couple meetings in the past,
Speaker 2: and I was never somebody fully open to this stuff.
Speaker 2: My wife is always way more accepting of these things, yea,
Speaker 2: And she got me to try it for the first time.
Speaker 2: And I've had a couple different things happen that were
Speaker 2: pretty remarkable in that sense. But as I've talked to
Speaker 2: some people, they said, yeah, it's often like you could
Speaker 2: be in a room and you're just hearing tons of
Speaker 2: voices like it because you're trying to have a normal dinner.
Speaker 2: Let's say, but all these people in this restaurant have
Speaker 2: people that want to cross through and speak to them,
Speaker 2: and You're just like, oh my god, let me just
Speaker 2: have dinner with the person I'm with right now. I
Speaker 2: don't need to have all this noise. Is that how
Speaker 2: what it's like for you too?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I have a funny story about that. I was
Speaker 1: in college and at that time, it was my fifth year.
Speaker 1: I did a fifth year just because I red shirted
Speaker 1: one year, so I wanted to play like my four years.
Speaker 1: And I was in a class and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there and like I'm seeing stuff. But it
Speaker 1: was the first week of class. It was like sill
Speaker 1: this week as everyone calls it and stuff, and I
Speaker 1: see my professor and she lost a son. And I
Speaker 1: never would go up to someone and start saying stuff
Speaker 1: like never, I'm that's not me, Like I don't know
Speaker 1: what came over me. I'm not really sure. I kind
Speaker 1: of pretended to pack my backpack up like really slow,
Speaker 1: so like as people are leaving, I'm like slowly putting
Speaker 1: my stuff away about to go to lacrosse practice, Like
Speaker 1: I'm slowly going and then everyone left and I walked
Speaker 1: up to her and I go, you know your son
Speaker 1: and I said his name is here, and I start
Speaker 1: talking about him and I'm like, wait, I don't even
Speaker 1: know you like believe in mediums or people that do that,
Speaker 1: and she flipped out like was get out of my
Speaker 1: class like so like so like yeah, because of that,
Speaker 1: I've like become a little nervous to like do that
Speaker 1: to people, because I also realize now that it's such
Speaker 1: a personal thing, like you shouldn't just go up to
Speaker 1: someone and bombard someone with something like that, like you
Speaker 1: should always like ask if they're like okay to do it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like anytime I go out, it's like I'm
Speaker 1: seeing stuff for each person or like there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of like energy. I guess that's in like a bar
Speaker 1: because I try to be as normal as possible, like
Speaker 1: I'll well have to, I'm sure. Yeah, Like I still
Speaker 1: play volleyball like the NYPD guys on Wednesdays, like you know,
Speaker 1: like I still do that. So it's kind of like
Speaker 1: if I'm around everyone and it's just so much energy
Speaker 1: that's coming at you, it's like do you do that?
Speaker 1: Do you not? I'm like, nah, I'm not doing anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no more of that for sure. And let
Speaker 2: me ask you this, is it different when you're inny
Speaker 2: physical place? Because I've had readings face to face with somebody,
Speaker 2: and I've had it over the phone, yeah, and never
Speaker 2: on a podcast. I don't know a video. But is
Speaker 2: it different if you're in the physical presence of the
Speaker 2: person or it doesn't matter. You just need to sort
Speaker 2: of see that person and see their energy or or
Speaker 2: or whatever it is and things will still happen.
Speaker 1: So I will say this like the reading side, like, no,
Speaker 1: it's pretty similar the intimacy. The intimacy side, sorry, is
Speaker 1: a little different. Like when you're doing it in person,
Speaker 1: it's way more intimate because you're sitting with the person
Speaker 1: face to face. And what I struggle with is like
Speaker 1: when I because I have clients like everywhere, so it's
Speaker 1: like I have to do through zoom and I don't
Speaker 1: want them to feel like it's so transactional. And I
Speaker 1: think that's that's where I kind of struggle with with
Speaker 1: that because I don't want it to be transactional. This
Speaker 1: is like an intimate experience, so it's like I want
Speaker 1: it to feel that way, but when it comes like
Speaker 1: the actual reading portion of it, it's it's the same.
Speaker 1: I would think it's just like the intimacy factors like
Speaker 1: a little thrown off with it.
Speaker 2: That makes sense. And when you now you have this
Speaker 2: total not would it's called a side profession, but you know,
Speaker 2: an aspect act in an arm to your profession of
Speaker 2: working with law enforcement FBI, NYPD tell him. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are tons of stories that you could share,
Speaker 2: but is there like any one in particular that you,
Speaker 2: without question they caught the person, found the whatever it
Speaker 2: was because of your direct involvement that led to that
Speaker 2: that result of a cold case closing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think the one that people know me probably
Speaker 1: the most about that get Abbybatito side of things, when
Speaker 1: I helped locate the body and I helped kind of
Speaker 1: navigate to find Brian Laundry at the time because he
Speaker 1: was on the run.
Speaker 2: For a very long time. Yeah, he was the he
Speaker 2: was the it was his name. Oh yeah, that's right,
Speaker 2: that's right. This is the one that was out in
Speaker 2: the desert when they found her body and the parents
Speaker 2: were involved, right yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's kind of like so I I
Speaker 1: did the stuff with like the readings and stuff with
Speaker 1: like law law enforcement, and and I kept saying about
Speaker 1: the parents and like this things like that, and they're
Speaker 1: like there's no way, there's no way. And even when
Speaker 1: the parents were, you know, being a little weird, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden they jumped right into like
Speaker 1: help the church. I kept saying, I'm like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: the like blah blah blah. And I explained like how
Speaker 1: he was going to do it, and like how not
Speaker 1: far away he is, so like they're looking at crazy distances,
Speaker 1: like he traveled all the way up to like the Carolinas.
Speaker 1: And for people that don't know they were in Florida,
Speaker 1: so like for him to go from Florida on foot
Speaker 1: to the Carolinas, that's one a little like crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But I was kind of like doing that stuff. And
Speaker 1: then once it got solved, that's when I got a
Speaker 1: little bit of like, you know, their respect on with
Speaker 1: these different like agencies, because like the FBI has like
Speaker 1: the New York sector, the Florida sectors Wyoming, like they're
Speaker 1: all very different. And even with the law enforcements that
Speaker 1: were involved in this case, there was like three to
Speaker 1: four different like law enforcements from Utah to Wyoming to
Speaker 1: Larda and all these different places. So it was interesting
Speaker 1: because I couldn't even speak about it for like a
Speaker 1: really long time because the case was still like ongoing
Speaker 1: on like a like a legal matter. So then when
Speaker 1: I was able to, I was able to like take
Speaker 1: a picture of like Gabby's mom and like finally meet her.
Speaker 2: And it was complicated. It kept crossing jurisdictions everywhere that
Speaker 2: he went everywhere there. Yeah, it was a big mess
Speaker 2: that side, on the on the you know, legal side
Speaker 2: of things. Yeah, so you kept pointing the finger at
Speaker 2: the parents saying, there's something more to explore here, there's
Speaker 2: something more to explore here. And did you know quickly
Speaker 2: like you knew it was them or you just knew
Speaker 2: that there was more information that they needed to share
Speaker 2: and that they needed to take it serious the police.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically when they when I helped find Gabby's
Speaker 1: like like body and stuff, it was the part two
Speaker 1: of like obviously the manhunt of like Brian Laundry. But
Speaker 1: then also like there was also like a lot of
Speaker 1: different factors of like who was involved as far as
Speaker 1: like who knew what was going on and just all
Speaker 1: all this stuff. So like after I kept pointing at
Speaker 1: the parents and I was just like, you know, they're
Speaker 1: leading you on a wild goose chase right now, like
Speaker 1: they are. And I go, not just like literally, but
Speaker 1: like in every way like mentally and everything like you
Speaker 1: and They're like, no way, no way, like their attorneys
Speaker 1: doing this. No way, no way, no way. And I'm
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, Like I go listen. I know
Speaker 1: I'm not amissible in any way, but I might just
Speaker 1: trust me on this. So we were going back and
Speaker 1: forth a little bit, and then like eventually it all
Speaker 1: came to fruition that like the parents knew from the
Speaker 1: moment it happened, and yeah, everything.
Speaker 2: Are you able to share what gave you that knowledge?
Speaker 2: Like is that was it her? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So when I connected to Gabby, when she became connected
Speaker 1: to her, yeah, So so basically what happened was I
Speaker 1: was contacted weeks or like a week before they found
Speaker 1: her body probably, so like they still thought that she
Speaker 1: was possibly alive, Like they thought that there was not
Speaker 1: like there was a chance that she was alive. And
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to like say this, but
Speaker 1: like like when I was doing this. I spoke to
Speaker 1: the like one of the law enforcement people, and I
Speaker 1: asked like everyone to kind of get off the like
Speaker 1: the zoom because it was through zoom, and I said,
Speaker 1: I go, hey, if I'm connecting with someone, that's not
Speaker 1: a good sign. That means that they're not here.
Speaker 2: Let me back it up for a second. Before they
Speaker 2: reached out to you, because you said it's a week
Speaker 2: before they found the body. Yeah, were you putting yourself
Speaker 2: out there already going like doing the work to try
Speaker 2: to to find her? Or did did like what made
Speaker 2: you how did you get involved? And yeah? And A
Speaker 2: and then B did you have to like give pick
Speaker 2: where they giving you know, items to you of her
Speaker 2: or pictures of her? Or is something that would make
Speaker 2: you have to try to I'm assuming put an effort
Speaker 2: into to tap into her spirit, right versus you're just
Speaker 2: you weren't just up in New York or you weren't
Speaker 2: playing lacrosse and all of a sudden, you know, she's
Speaker 2: in your ear, like you had to put some effort
Speaker 2: out to go make that connection. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I went on someone else's podcast and they asked
Speaker 1: me about it, and I just said, like, it's hard
Speaker 1: for me to do anything if I'm not speaking to
Speaker 1: someone that's related to them, because like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to cross a line. And then an FBI person that
Speaker 1: I know, I guess heard it and they reached out
Speaker 1: and they and I spoke to someone that was a
Speaker 1: family member of Gabby's and that's how I was able
Speaker 1: to connect because it was really direct and like again,
Speaker 1: like that's how I became close with Gabby's mom, Nicole,
Speaker 1: because of stuff like you know, like we weren't allowed
Speaker 1: to talk to each other, yeah, for like a year
Speaker 1: and a half, and then they gave us the green
Speaker 1: light to talk. And then she came back to Long
Speaker 1: Island because she originally was from Long Island, and I
Speaker 1: met up with her and her kids and like everyone
Speaker 1: because it was such an interesting relationship where I do
Speaker 1: my reading. Then I don't speak there ever again, you know,
Speaker 1: like because they wanted to keep us like separate. They
Speaker 1: didn't want us to I guess developed like a friendship
Speaker 1: because it could blur lines of things.
Speaker 2: For sure, could dilute the case and evidence and yeah,
Speaker 2: probably just make things less credible in the long run
Speaker 2: of you guys, exactly what makesure isolating? So it's like
Speaker 2: a one off experience. I'm getting information for you. It's
Speaker 2: a transaction, you're doing your doing business. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a ten to fifteen minute thing
Speaker 1: and then they would click it off and then that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't hear from them for like a little bit.
Speaker 2: But as soon as you met with that family member,
Speaker 2: as soon as you met with the family member, you
Speaker 2: connected and knew she was.
Speaker 1: It was pretty fast on. Yeah, it was pretty fast on.
Speaker 1: It was probably like like four minutes in, like you know,
Speaker 1: like enough for me to be like, this is uncomfortable
Speaker 1: for me to say something when everyone is like on,
Speaker 1: you know, like, and that's when I wanted to I
Speaker 1: wanted to respect every party that was involved when I
Speaker 1: was doing it, So I tried to do it in
Speaker 1: the like the best way that I knew, which was
Speaker 1: like say it to someone personally before it goes right
Speaker 1: into work kind of with it. And yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a little uncomfortable. I'm not gonna like lie
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be the one on to
Speaker 1: like say any like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, yeah, no, I hear you.
Speaker 1: It was really uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Was that your first ever interaction with law enforcement or
Speaker 2: had you already been doing little things with law enforcement.
Speaker 1: I was already doing stuff with them.
Speaker 2: You were already working with IPD and all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I got the like everything is like in
Speaker 1: that world when you do it's like word of mouth,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't matter about anything. It matters about word
Speaker 1: of mouth. Who you've helped, how you helped, and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like they they're skeptical but open minded, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Like they they believe in it, but
Speaker 1: they have to see it to believe it and see
Speaker 1: like movement to believe it. Like they're not just gonna
Speaker 1: like take off of someone.
Speaker 2: So especially when it's something so severe, I mean so serious,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like you're talking about someone
Speaker 2: going to jail, not going to jail. You know, they're
Speaker 2: using this as part of their evidence. It's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in other cases you've worked on, Yeah, have you
Speaker 2: also complete cold cases that have been you know, skipped
Speaker 2: over for years they couldn't have more information. They bring
Speaker 2: you in and you start talking to them and you
Speaker 2: help them put pieces together that actually read led to
Speaker 2: an arrest as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of cases where like I try
Speaker 1: to explain to people like I'm never their first option,
Speaker 1: I'm always their last typically, and it's typically to help
Speaker 1: them go down a different avenue of sorts to kind
Speaker 1: of like keep a case either kind of moving along,
Speaker 1: or to help like make an arrest for someone. And
Speaker 1: there's been like a new like a couple of cases
Speaker 1: where some of the things I said led to it,
Speaker 1: like an arrest. I got flown out to like Lima,
Speaker 1: Ohio like randomly by one of the sheriffs like people,
Speaker 1: and they literally block like they gave me a fake address,
Speaker 1: like they didn't want me to know anything. So I
Speaker 1: flew into like I think Dayton Airport if that's like
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure, and someone picked me up, drove
Speaker 1: me for like two hours. I had no idea where
Speaker 1: I was. They put me in a hotel and then
Speaker 1: they're like, well, come and grab you in the morning.
Speaker 1: So they grabbed me in the morning. They blindfolded me
Speaker 1: because they don't want me to like know where I'm
Speaker 1: going to like google like an address, because if I
Speaker 1: google an address and I could probably google the case
Speaker 1: and you can always backtrack kind of like what it is.
Speaker 1: They pulled me up and just so I'm sure, I mean,
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. I don't know if you know,
Speaker 1: but like lime Ohios are very like industrial area, so
Speaker 1: there's industrial plants everywhere, so where they make my car
Speaker 1: parts and like everything. And they pulled me in into
Speaker 1: like an industrial lot and then they took my blindfold
Speaker 1: off and they're like, here's another one, and they put
Speaker 1: it on, and then they drove me like wow, to
Speaker 1: like a they lived in, like in a trailer home,
Speaker 1: I guess, but it was creepy, at least for me
Speaker 1: because when I walked in, it's just like imagine like
Speaker 1: you walk into like a shell of a house. They
Speaker 1: took all pictures, all furniture, like gone, like they took everything.
Speaker 1: They didn't want me to know who I was talking to,
Speaker 1: what was going on, nothing, And I said some stuff
Speaker 1: about this case. This case was this guy was outside
Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette and there was a hidden run and
Speaker 1: the way that the body was positioned was like it
Speaker 1: was like if someone took a baseball bat to the
Speaker 1: back of your head and they put the hood up
Speaker 1: there's no blood on it, and laid him on his side.
Speaker 2: You're seeing all this the moment you walked into the
Speaker 2: trailer bar.
Speaker 1: No, so like the When I walked in, I saw
Speaker 1: was the son and I saw the impact to the
Speaker 1: back of the head, and then I was helping to
Speaker 1: like uncover, like yeah, and then they kind of filled
Speaker 1: me in after. They're like, this is where it happened.
Speaker 1: Where you pointed to the edge of the driveway, that's
Speaker 1: actually where it was happened. They're like, you're right, and
Speaker 1: then they're like and then they start showing me pictures
Speaker 1: after because they wanted me to see what I was
Speaker 1: like talking about. And I was saying someone's name over
Speaker 1: and over again. I kept saying this guy's name. I
Speaker 1: didn't hear from them for like eight months, and that
Speaker 1: happens a lot where I don't hear from them for
Speaker 1: a long time. I get a call from the mom
Speaker 1: and the sheriff and they're like, the person that you said,
Speaker 1: who we skipped over so much, is actually a lead.
Speaker 1: So now based on some of the stuff you bring
Speaker 1: us to our attention, gaining footage from what you were
Speaker 1: saying and stuff, he was there that night and he
Speaker 1: said he wasn't there that night, and they're like, we
Speaker 1: saw him in the car because I kept saying, I'm
Speaker 1: like he was involved. I don't know if he did it,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, he's your key person to get to
Speaker 1: who you need to get to, but you need to
Speaker 1: start at this person, and they did and they were
Speaker 1: able to. I don't know how far along they are
Speaker 1: now made. I just I heard from them like a
Speaker 1: couple of months ago about it, so I don't know
Speaker 1: how far I put at least exactly because they like
Speaker 1: skipped over him because they thought, like based on relationship.
Speaker 1: They're like, there's no way that that's possible, and like
Speaker 1: he has an alibi, so they're like, there's no way
Speaker 1: relationship and alibi you put that together. They're like no.
Speaker 1: And also people don't realize that when you go into
Speaker 1: like these smaller towns, their police departments have like twenty
Speaker 1: two people max. So they're stretched so thin, so they
Speaker 1: don't even like have resources to even like continue cases.
Speaker 1: So it was like a really interesting thing for me
Speaker 1: just to be blindfolded and kind of going. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was freaking out, Like I was calling I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I called my mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like I may not come back. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to help some people, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like I'm like this, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what you have to do, but you may have
Speaker 1: to find me. I'm like, wow, yeah, it was freaky.
Speaker 2: This is I mean, I could go on for hours
Speaker 2: with you. This has blows my mind. We're gonna wrap
Speaker 2: up this first part of the show, and I know
Speaker 2: the producers have talked about I guess you're gonna talk
Speaker 2: with me about some stuff. But sure, thank you this again.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to come on your show. I want
Speaker 2: to talk more about this stuff. I'm blown away by
Speaker 2: it all. But thank you for sharing about all this.
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, Wow, that was fascinating with Jonathan. I
Speaker 2: can't wait to dive into our second episode where I
Speaker 2: get my reading. But listen. Thank you for checking us
Speaker 2: out for always listening to our podcast. If you have
Speaker 2: something you want to talk to us about, send us
Speaker 2: d ms, and he said ad or email us at
Speaker 2: Ericanros at iHeartRadio dot com. Until next time. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: Don't forget to write us a review and tell us
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Speaker 2: See you next time. Bye,