1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's me Josh and for this week's 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects. Me and Chuck agreed that 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: we should re release our episode on the Underground Railroad. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: First came out in June of two thousand and eleven 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: and it was a pretty good one. But since we 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: just released our Harriet Tubban episode, we thought this might 7 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: tie in quite well. So sit back, relax, and enjoy 8 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: hearing about the thrilling stories from the Underground Railroad and 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Happy Black History Month. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: from house stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 11 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and with me as always 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which makes this stuff You 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: should know the podcast because Chuck and I are the 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: hosts of that hostesses no host yep, Chuck, Yes, how 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: your How are you? I'm great, man? How are you? 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm fine? It's you and I and Matt are guest 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: producer alone in this entire building. Yeah, this it's uh, 18 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: the Friday before Memorial Day, Friday afternoon even and it's 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: pretty empty in here, Yes it is. There's lots of 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: echoes that we're gonna have to adjust for and post 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: do we do post anymore? Is this like basically just 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: live to tape. At least we're not getting hateful stairs 23 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: as we walk through the office. Yeah, it's refreshing, so Chuck. 24 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: As you know, I grew up in Ohio. I was 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: hoping you had mentioned this. Well, I grew up in Ohio. 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: Your hopes are are fulfilled. Well another reason why, Well, Um, 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: it turns out I recently learned from this article on 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: how the underground Railroad, how the underground railroad worked. We 29 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: talked about how this is gonna be problematic. Um that 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: an estimated half of all underground railroad workers. Um, we're 31 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: from Ohio or lived in Ohio or part of Ohio. 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: I had no idea that, but reading that it makes 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: sense because that was such a part of my um 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: upbringing as a child. Everybody's house that was built in 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: like the nineteenth or eighteenth century had like an oh, 36 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: this is where they kept the freed slaves in the 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: underground roildroad. Everybody's house had like a little spot that 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: supposedly was part of the underground road heritage or some 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: real some were um more believable than others, but normally 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: it was like a public building or like a National 41 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Historic Register building that like they gave tours to that 42 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: was part of the underground railroad. But like everybody's house 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: like had like a little spot in the basement where like, yes, 44 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: conceivably human beings could stand here and and uh, you know, 45 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: hide out. But yeah, see I grew up in Georgia. 46 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Said that we didn't have those talks. No, And apparently 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,399 Speaker 1: in this article the author points out and I don't 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: know where she got this, but um that there's there's 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: still blemishes on families who were known to have helped 50 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: slaves on the underground road road in the South still today. 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: I totally I don't know if she's talking about. I 52 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: thought that was completely out of left field. It was. 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: I grew up in this state and never heard anybody 54 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: be like, yeah, that guy that lives down the street 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: their family used to hide slaves. Yeah that's not that's 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: not true. So so um, but you you were familiar 57 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: with the underground road road before this article. I was. 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: But it's a good time to point out that not 59 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: nearly enough, because black history is so glossed over in 60 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: American schools except in February. Except in February, and it's 61 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: still even in February that I went through all my 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: schooling with just knowing like there was an underground railroad 63 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: and Harriet Tubman ran it. That's it. Period. Yeah, never 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: learned about Malcolm X. I think dread Scott may have 65 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: been mentioned briefly, but yeah, it's very sad. Yeah, and 66 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: hopefully that's changed some since then. Well for the list 67 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: nurse who had similar experiences. Um, we're about a remedy 68 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: that because we're gonna tell you not only how it worked, 69 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna tell you in so much detail that you 70 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: could conceivably go start your own right now. That's right, 71 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: And there are some still around today. Yes. Human trafficking 72 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: is the new word for um slavery basically um where 73 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: it usually it's forced into sex work, right, um. And 74 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: there are groups who are dedicated to like freeing sex 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: workers from forced labor. They're called Polaris, which is renaming 76 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: of the North Star. Yeah. Um, and then and others. 77 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: We should do a podcast on human trafficking. I think 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: we have a good article on that that Molly wrote. 79 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. Oh really yeah, okay, you're ready, Yeah, 80 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: let's do it all right, so chuck um, basically the 81 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: the origins of the UM Underground Railroad, which was the 82 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: network by which is skate slaves ran along to freedom, 83 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: almost always to Canada if they were going north. As 84 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: it turns out, UM probably started before the eighteen twenties. UM, 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: but it couldn't have possibly been called the underground road 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: road until after the eighteen twenties because the actual railroad 87 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: system wasn't invented until them. Either that or they were 88 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: like way ahead of their time, right, But it may 89 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: have had some sort of name, And we know that 90 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: there were groups of people who were uh formed for 91 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: the common purpose of aiding escaped slaves to go secure freedom, 92 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: to get out of the South, or get out of 93 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: a slave state into protection in a non slave state. 94 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: Because George Washington complained about it in a letter in 95 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty six that he suspected some Quakers that helped 96 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: some of his slaves escape. He was probably right on 97 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: the money, tail, yeah, because Quakers were one of the 98 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: earliest members of the Underground Railroad, and they were the 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: was trusted because they were so recognizable in everybody. Yet 100 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: Quakers will help you out. Definitely the most trusted white 101 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: people for sure. UM. We but we should probably point out, um, 102 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: the reason everybody went to Canada was because there was 103 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: a federal law in the US. Right, that's right. What 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: was it called. It was called the Fugitive Slave Act 105 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: of seventeen nine, and uh, it was around since sevente 106 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: but it really got its teeth in eighteen fifty when 107 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: it's strengthened the fines and basically made um, helping a 108 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: slave escape a federal crime, and then uh in non 109 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: slave states as well, and uh pretty much meant if 110 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: you were caught as a slave, you were going to 111 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: be put to death and likely tortured in a public place, 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and maybe even your slave family or friends that you 113 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: were with on the plantation were also punished, even though 114 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: they didn't try to escape. So anyone involved in the 115 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: and even not being involved but being involved by relationship 116 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: or something like that, UM, really had a lot to 117 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: lose from this one person making it to freedom, which really, 118 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: um is it's just very heartening when you look back 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: on what these people did. They risked a lot. Um 120 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties stiffening of the Slave Act. Right, Um, 121 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,559 Speaker 1: if you armed a slave, which was routinely done because 122 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: this is dangerous. Um. Then you were subject to execution 123 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: no matter who you were, white, black, whatever um that was, 124 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: that was punishable by being executed. So people who were 125 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: helping escape slaves were putting a lot on the line, right, Yeah, 126 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: And and one of the miss there's a few miss 127 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: that even this article kind of uh perpetuates a bit. 128 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: But um rarely or not rarely, but more often than not, 129 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: they were other black people or former slaves or current 130 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: slaves helping the other slaves on the underground round road. 131 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: It was not a big happy group of white northern 132 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: abolitionists risking their life to help out the slaves. They 133 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: did that some, but it was usually quakers um or 134 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, like I said before, slaves or former slaves. Okay, 135 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: so that's one myth. There's a few others. Well, let's 136 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: go through this. What what did an escape look like 137 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: right along the underground railroad during its height in the 138 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century, h what would happen was free black 139 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: people would send a field agent, what they called the 140 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: field agent. Um. It was a lot of times a 141 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: minister or a doctor posing as like a census taker 142 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: to anybody who could move throughout a community undetected so 143 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: they would make contact with a current slave who supposedly 144 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: wanted to escape, and they had to gain their trust, 145 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: because this whole thing was about trust. You really had 146 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: to trust because people would sell out their own own 147 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: kind to gain favor with with the master sometimes, so 148 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: sometimes you couldn't even trust your fellow slave, So you 149 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: really had to gain their trust as the field agent, 150 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: and then they would eventually, once that trust was gained, 151 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: arranged for the escape from the plantation to travel to 152 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: the first safe house to a conductor. Actually, I'm sorry, 153 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: they passed along to the conductor who would take you 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: to your first station. Yes, and that was the beginning 155 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: of the journey, right, And the station was basically somebody's 156 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: house usually UM, and the head of the household as 157 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: a station master, and that was somebody who was putting 158 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: his life in the life of his family's on the line. 159 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: Feed and house and hide this person for a little while, 160 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: UM possibly set him up with the disguise, which um 161 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: they got fairly um. Yes, yeah, there's there's a story 162 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: of one in a um apparently with a seminal work 163 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: on the Underground Railroad, appropriately titled The Underground Railroad, written 164 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: by Wilburt Sea Bird, right, and he talks about how, um, 165 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: a black woman was basically made up to look like 166 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: a wealthy white woman and to complete this disguise, was 167 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: given a white baby, um too for her journey. Yeah, 168 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: so people were, you know, fanatic about this. I read 169 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: another one, UM, a couple from Savannah. UM. The woman 170 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: was the daughter of the slave, her slave owner, and 171 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: her mother was a slave, a house servant ever, um, 172 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: so she was light skinned, so they had her pose 173 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: as a frail, aging white man and her husband posed 174 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: as like a you know, a loyal servant slave UM 175 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: on their journey all the way from Savannah up to 176 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: I think Philadelphia or Boston. Um. But yeah, that was 177 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: kind of harrowing. Apparently they were almost found out a 178 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: bunch of times. Yeah. So I can imagine, like just 179 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: trying to escape through the woods scary enough. Trying to 180 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: escape disguised in plain sight has to just be nerve racking. Yeah, 181 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, especially the lady with a white baby, because 182 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: I imagine that whoever might have found her out would 183 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: not have been too happy about that at the time. 184 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: At least along the way if you did maybe encounter 185 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: a train conductor who found you out, but was willing 186 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: to keep his mouth shut for money. You needed money. 187 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: Most slaves didn't have money because they were not paid. Um. 188 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: And the this was I guess at the station. The 189 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: station master might also hook you up with some money 190 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: that came from what are called stockholders. Um. And stockholders 191 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: were probably wealthy abolitionists who didn't really want to get 192 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: their hands dirty. But we're happy to support the cause financially. True, right, yeah, 193 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: And I didn't get I mean, were they just people 194 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: who supported the cause basically financially, Yeah, but you know, 195 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: obviously in their in their hearts as well. Uh, now 196 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Though they didn't risk, you know, 197 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: walking people through the woods. No. Abolitionists, despite you know, 198 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: they're there desire to end slavery, were frequently accused, and 199 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: rightfully so in a lot of cases of you know, saying, 200 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: what we we think, slavery is vomitable, but you're freed, 201 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: and that's great, but go live over there. We still 202 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: want to just have our very lily white parties and 203 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: lives and all that. Um. And there were a lot 204 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: of abolitions like that. So I would imagine that just 205 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: giving money two people to use for bribes or for 206 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: travel or you know, to support these station houses. Probably 207 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: really you know, hit home. It's the same thing today, 208 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: like people don't go help like say the homeless, you're 209 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: resolving your guilt, they give money to, you know, organizations 210 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: that actually deal with the homeless. I think that this 211 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: was very similar to that. I think you're probably right. Uh, runaways, 212 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: um usually didn't travel alone, although again I read somewhere 213 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: else on on one of the websites that a lot 214 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: of times they were alone. Um. But when they weren't, 215 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: they would have a conductor guide them to the next station, 216 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: usually about a day away. They didn't want to make 217 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: it like, you know, a three day journey because it 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: just you know, you you probably don't have tons of 219 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: food and water, and it's just more dangerous the further 220 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: you're going, right, not between station houses. The journey itself 221 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: to freedom yet last days, weeks, months. Yeah, each each 222 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: station was about a day away ideally, right, they would 223 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: follow the north star. Yeah, that's good. That's why that one, 224 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: um modern hilarious. Yeah, that's why it's called that full circle. Yeah. 225 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: When the clouds were out, Um, there's the old trick 226 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: of looking where the moss grows because on tree trunks, 227 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: moss usually grows on the north side, and you wanted 228 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: to be headed north. There were instances where because they 229 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: made it a very zig zagging route usually you know, 230 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: they didn't want to make it a straight line, so 231 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: it made it easier to track, but it also made 232 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: it easier to get lost as a slave. It did. 233 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: And actually there's a sidebar towards the end of this 234 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: talking about quilt patterns, right, and there are codes embedded 235 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: with the I I found a substantial amount of it. 236 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: I see, I found stuff saying that was like mythical 237 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: that in the songs. Check out um os black history 238 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: dot com. They have this list, this key of like 239 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: what all of these different quilt patterns are and what 240 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: they meant. Um two slaves who came upon a quilt 241 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: and one of them was this um kind of zigzagged X. 242 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: It's called the um the drunken Path, And basically it's 243 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: saying like going a zigzag pattern because there's guys out, 244 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: there's slave hunters around, and if you say turned started 245 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: walking south, they would be less likely to suspect that 246 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: you were an escape slave if you looked like you 247 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: were purposefully walking south, because what slave of walks south? 248 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: That's where the south is right right that point. But 249 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean, if it is made up, this guy did 250 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: a good job of perpetuating it because it's very interesting. Well, 251 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: even in here it says it's it's one of the 252 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: well known legends or not. They just don't know because 253 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff and this could the bring 254 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: that up. A lot we don't know about because the 255 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: underground railroad was secret, so we don't know about a 256 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: lot of the places. We don't know a lot of 257 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: the routes or the people who worked there or who 258 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: actually started it. Oh and Josh also I mentioned the 259 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: moss on the trees. Clear nights were better to see 260 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: the stars, but traveling in the rain was pretty good too, 261 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: because fat white plantation owner probably wanted to be inside 262 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: by the fire when it was raining and not chasing 263 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: after his slaves. So let's talk about UM the laws. 264 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: We we mentioned it kind of specifically UM earlier about 265 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: some of the I guess the punishment that that could 266 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: befall anyone helping somebody right, Um. And in the Fugitive 267 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: Slave Act, UM basically created the first laws that said 268 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: this an escape slave can be gone and gotten legally right. 269 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: But there were slave states and there were non slave states, 270 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: and the non slave states said, well, yeah, that's a 271 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: great law, and you do whatever you want down in 272 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: the South, but we're not really going to enforce it, 273 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: and when we do, it's going to be very light. Well, 274 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty, this thing got a lot of teeth, um, 275 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: like you were saying in the fines were were stepped up, 276 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: the penalties were harsher execution, um was it was a 277 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: lot more um doable, I guess. And then um, it 278 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: also became legal for slave hunters to walk into a 279 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: free state, a non slave state and be like, Hey, 280 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: that black guy right there, I think he's an escaped slave. 281 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: He should come with me to anybody he could legally 282 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: claim it without having to justify even if they were 283 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: free men. Yes, um. And apparently there were rumors of 284 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: like slave traders like luring um, young black kids in 285 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: free states onto boats and then like taking them off 286 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: to the deep South. It's like, what are you gonna do? 287 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: How are you going to find these people? There's no 288 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: documentation like this. Um. So basically the North came to 289 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: really resent this change in the law in eighteen fifty 290 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: because people who were complacent living in non slave states, 291 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: suddenly we're kind of having slavery imposed upon them a 292 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: little more. And then the dread Scott case, like you 293 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, that really sealed the deal and really got abolitionists. UM. 294 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: I guess their their roles expanded tremendously after that. And 295 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: then as a result also the underground railroad became much 296 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: more organized. Yeah, that is dread Scott v. Sandford, and UH. 297 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: It was famous because dread Scott, a slave, sued for 298 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: his freedom for himself and his wife and his two 299 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: daughters and uh on the grounds that they lived quite 300 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: a bit of their lives in places like Wisconsin and Minnesota, 301 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: in these outlying Northwest territories that or northern territories that 302 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: had where it was illegal slavery was actually illegal. So 303 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: he sued on those grounds, and in one of probably 304 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: the worst Supreme Court decisions in the history of this country, 305 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: they decided because the panel was full of Southerners. The 306 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: panel Supreme Court justices were a lot of Southerners, and 307 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: they ruled that black people were not or people of 308 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: African descent were not citizens of the United States, free 309 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: or not they are not citizens. Therefore they cannot sue 310 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: for their freedom right. They don't have any rights, so 311 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: they can be basically captured and taken to Yes, the 312 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: a life of slavery again. But if it hadn't been 313 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: for the dread Scott case, Uh, we may never have. 314 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: Well we may have, but it really sped up the 315 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: process of the Thirteenth Amendment in the Emancipation Proclamation and 316 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: hence the Civil War and hence the Civil War. And 317 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: some of his descendants still live in St. Louis today. Well, 318 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: shout out to the Scots of St. Louis. UM and 319 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: Chuck we said that this this um precipitated the Civil War. 320 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: The underground railroad helped move it along. The dread Scott case. 321 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: It's it's basically these things, UM, Northerners actively subverting federal law. UM. 322 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: And the South economic cloud really ticked the South off 323 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: the the South imposing its views on slavery on the 324 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: North through this eighteen fifty strengthening and the dread Scot case. UM, 325 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: it really ticked off the North. So this division was 326 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: was UM, it's very much part of what led up 327 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: to the Civil War. Yeah, Pennsylvania even thought about ah 328 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: nullified ring the Fugitive Slave Act. They didn't like it 329 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: so much, but then they decided, you know, a better 330 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: way to do this is probably to be subversive and 331 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: to support things like the underground railroad on the down low, 332 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: rather than cause some big political snake write a check. 333 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: Exactly right. Um, So we say that because the Civil Wars. 334 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: Whenever you ask a kid, you know what why the 335 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: Civil War happened? Slavery. I mean, that's a that's a 336 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: big part of it. But that's why it's not just slavery. 337 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't like the North was like, slavery is wrong 338 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: and we're gonna go to war with you over it, 339 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: or the South was like, we love slavery, We're not 340 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: part of you any longer, although the latter I've heard 341 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: recently was um much closer to the point that the 342 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: South was perfectly happy with succeeding creating its own country 343 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: and basically creating an economic empire based on free labor, 344 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: that that took over the entire Caribbean, and that the 345 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: Southern US. Yeah, I wish I was more of a 346 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: civil war. Buff. I'm glad you're not shuck. Really, they're 347 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: in I wouldn't say obnoxious, but man, do they know 348 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: a lot about the Civil War and they like correcting 349 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: people too. Yeah, and we're going to hear from them. 350 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: So chuck, Um, when you did finally make it out 351 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: along this this route, um up to the northern the 352 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: extreme Northern States, the northern part of the extreme Northern States, 353 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: and to Canada. Um, it could take days, weeks, months, 354 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: It could take twenty four hours if you happen to 355 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: have the money and the gaul to ride a train, 356 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: or if you live in a border state. Yeah, which 357 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: apparently is why a lot of slaves never escaped from 358 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: the Deep South. It was longer ago and they didn't. 359 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: They wouldn't have taken the underground railroad, which went exclusively north. 360 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: I believe they would have gone to Florida or to Mexico. 361 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: Never knew that. So Mexico in eighty nine outlawed slavery 362 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: and became active in protecting slaves who escaped to Mexico. Yeah. 363 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: Native American Indians go figure, we're very empathetic. They were 364 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: probably like join the club, my man, come on in 365 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: almost literally chuck so in Florida in Spain said we're 366 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: issuing a decree here that says, any any slave or 367 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: native American who leaves an English colony and makes it 368 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: to Florida is a free florid Ian, a free a 369 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: free member of the Spanish crown. Right. All we want 370 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: from you is that you convert to a Catholic convert 371 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: to Catholicism and become a member of the military for 372 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: a prescribed amount of time, right, um. And in return 373 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: you're a citizen here. Right. So that's why Florida attracted 374 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: a bunch of people, and the reason they did it 375 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: was specifically to attract people from um England, the English 376 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: territories like Georgia or South Carolina, because they wanted to 377 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: jump start the economic engine, but they weren't going to 378 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: do it on slavery. Right. I wonder what impact that 379 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: has today. I wonder if there are more African American 380 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: Catholics in Florida proportionately because of that. Well, one of 381 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: the impacts that it had that's still around the day 382 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: are the Seminoles. The Seminoles were a recent tribe that 383 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: started in about the eighteenth century UM based on displaced 384 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: Creek Indians who made it to Florida to take Spain 385 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: up on their offer and escape slaves. And now there's 386 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: a division in the Seminole tribe between Black Seminoles and 387 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: Red Seminals, and it's not they don't always get along. 388 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: But during this time, the Seminole Indians came up because 389 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: in a lot of cases, black slave, freed slaves or 390 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: escaped slaves would come up to an Indian Indian sentiment, 391 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: lived near it, or be absorbed into it. And that's 392 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: where the Seminoles came from. That's pretty cool, didn't it. 393 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: There's really one jerk in this whole thing, and that's 394 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: that's yeah. Our ancestors chucked. They were white Northerners too. 395 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: It's not all in the South, white jerk, white Northerners probably, 396 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: h Yeah. Anyway, I'm just always stick up for the South. Well, 397 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: think about it that there were an estimated two thousand 398 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: to three thousand underground railroad workers. Yeah, there there are 399 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: a lot more people in the US and the North 400 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: and the South than that at the time. Buddy. Yeah, 401 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: that's a good point. Uh. It is interesting though to 402 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: me that you said Canada, because that was where many 403 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: of them ended up. And I never knew that. I 404 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: never knew that, and it made sense, because why go 405 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: to Pennsylvania even though they're sympathetic to a certain degree 406 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: when the Fugitive Slave Act still is hanging over my 407 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: head and somebody could turn me in for some dough 408 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: if they wanted to. Yeah, let's just go to Canada 409 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: where they don't care and they don't have those laws. Plus, 410 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you're gonna just stop in Detroit. 411 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: You're gonna be like, oh no, I'm gonna keep moving 412 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: to Canada. Eat. So we were saying that there there 413 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: was some involvement by some people. There was UM separate involvement, 414 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: disconnected involvement, whatever. But some of the people, some of 415 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: these abolitionists UM and freed slaves, UM and escaped slaves 416 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: who have made lives for themselves UM formed in these 417 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: northern non slave states enclaves of where where an escape 418 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: slave could feel very free, like Boston, Philadelphia, UM, I 419 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: think New York. Um. They formed these things called vigilance committees. Right. Yeah, 420 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: it's very nice. They provided like some protection for them, uh, 421 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: tried to get them work, try to give them a 422 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: place to live, and so you know, it's just sort 423 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: of like hey, now you're you're safe now and we're 424 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: gonna help you set up life as an American, Yeah, 425 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: and get something that everyone in this country should be 426 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: born with, which is freedom right. And here's a credit 427 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: card to enslave you in a different way. That came later, 428 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: and that touched all races, it did, so, Chuck. There's 429 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: um one one person who kind of rose above all 430 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: others as far as the underground Railroad went. And her 431 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: name was Harriet Tubman. She was, she wasn't It is 432 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: still referred to as the Moses of her people. Yeah. 433 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: It is not a cliche to to bring up Harriet 434 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: Tubman as you know, like of where she's gonna bring 435 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: it very duban. Course we are, because she was the 436 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Moses of her people. Yea. And she was an escape 437 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: slave from Maryland and very sadly I went back to 438 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: get her family and helped them escape. Found her husband 439 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: had a new wife and he was like, yeah, umu 440 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: to stay here. Yeah, and she wasn't too happy with that, clearly. 441 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: So she reportedly books say um kind of hardened her 442 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: a little bit, which in the end helped her because 443 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: you sort of needed a bit of a hard heart 444 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: to lead people in the Underground Railroad. You didn't need 445 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: whiners and criers and people that would draw attention and 446 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: make noise. Yeah. Apparently she would threaten to kill people 447 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: if they didn't shut up. Yeah, like, quiet down, I'm 448 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: trying to get you to freedom. Just shut up about 449 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: it was her was her motto officially, I think. And 450 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: she was individually probably the most successful uh conductor on 451 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: the underground railroad. Right, Yeah, I think uh at least 452 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: seventy slaves um that she led to freedom to New 453 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: York and camp personally thirteen journeys and these are long trips. 454 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: Well think about it. Also, she's an escape slave. She 455 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: goes back into slave states thirteen times to guide people 456 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: out bad. She's a big bad mama. She Uh. She 457 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: went on to serve as a spy, as a scout, 458 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: and a nurse for the Union Army and received no 459 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: military wartime pension for that, even though she was Harriet 460 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: Tubman and Um went on to sell fruits and vegetables 461 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: store to door. You're joking, and wrote a book and 462 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: lived off profits from her book. She actually made money 463 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: off of it, which is good the US as a 464 00:27:39,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: long Yeah, so, Chuck, you want to talk about how 465 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: many people were let out we we we mentioned Harriet 466 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: Tubman lad at least seventy personally UM and estimates very 467 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: wildly as to how many people escaped UM. As we said, 468 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: the heyday of the underground railroad was eighteen twenties to 469 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties. Say UM. Some some people maintain about 470 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand people escaped, which is that's huge. UM. 471 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: On the other end, UH, the Journal Black Studies estimates 472 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: of between eighteen thirty and sixty UM only about two 473 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: thousand people escaped via underground railroad. The National Park Service 474 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: settled somewhere in the middle and says, yeah, let's say 475 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: a thousand per year. But again it's very secretive. People 476 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: have no idea who was who, whether a house really 477 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: was a stop. There are some places that are most 478 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: decidedly UM parts of the underground road road that are 479 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: still around to day, like the Dobbin Horse Tavern and Gettysburg, 480 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania has movable case that people used to hide in. 481 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: It was a house at the time. UM. But because 482 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: of the secrecy, because of the success of it of it, UM, 483 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: we we have no idea you know, who was a 484 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: part of it, who wasn't. And that's pretty neat, I think, 485 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: But there's the National Park Services really spent a lot 486 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: of time and effort and money so far um figuring out, 487 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, where the underground railroad ran and who is 488 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: a part of it, and what buildings were in to 489 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: preserve the buildings, and there's a there's actually a bike 490 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: um trail that you can run I think or something 491 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: like that along established identified underground railroad routes. Yeah, pretty cool, 492 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: you know you. I just wanted to point out when 493 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: you said the our checkered history, America's checkered history. I 494 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: still feel England's stank on this. Oh yeah, that was 495 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: early enough to wear. It wasn't like you know, rednecks 496 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: from the south this. These are still like English fops 497 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: doing this stuff. So I blame England, You blame England. 498 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out when my my line is 499 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: drawn and when I'm saying this was America because even 500 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: after the Revolutionary where it was still just people from 501 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: England living here. Okay, So England is your fault. Take 502 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: that in England and it's Canada the big hero to 503 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: you and this. Yeah, of course, man, you know that's 504 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: still a territory of the English crown really yeah to 505 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: you on that one, pal, I don't know what to think. Um, 506 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: so wait we before we go, we have to mention 507 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: John Brown. We talked about how like a lot of 508 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: people were like, here's some money, I'll be a stockholder 509 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: in the underground road road and impress my friends. John 510 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: Brown walked the walk he lived in like freed black colonies. 511 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: He um, if he didn't do it himself, he oversaw 512 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: the murder of five unarmed pro slavery um settlers in Kansas, 513 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: which is up for grabs between slavery and in a 514 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: non slavery state. Um. And he basically turned into a 515 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: guerrilla and staged raids on pro slavery settlements and killed 516 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: lots of people. Um. And then he staged the raid 517 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: on Harper's ferry. Yeah yeah uh and was eventually caught 518 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: and hanged for it. But he was as far as 519 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: the abolitionists go, he was like, um that he he was, 520 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: I guess you could say equal to Harriet Tubman as 521 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: far as in the abolitionist camp where she was in 522 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the freed slaves camp, he was hands on and did it. 523 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: Did you hear the box car guy who who packed 524 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: himself up in a box and had himself ship to Philadelphia. No, 525 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: did it work? Yeah, awesome. He had like some biscuits 526 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: and a little bit of water and some air holes 527 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: and his I think his nickname is box Car. I 528 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: can't remember his full name. But they, you know, opened 529 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: up the crate in Philadelphia and he climbed out and 530 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: they were like, congratulations, you're holy cant. So the bravery 531 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean, not just the slaves themselves, people who helped, 532 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: I mean the bravery of these people at the time 533 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: cannot be understated, agreed, because you were getting tortured and 534 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: killed if you were caught, and all for your freedom. 535 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: That's all you were looking for. Pretty heavy stuff. Yes, so, Chuck, 536 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: if they want to learn more about the underground railroad, 537 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: they should type in underground railroad in the search bar, 538 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com right, um, and then of 539 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: course brings up listener mail. And you know, I bet 540 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: the ladies from stuff you miss in history class have 541 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: probably done one on this already. And so I would 542 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: seek that out for another angle, because sometimes we double up, 543 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: and it's always good to hear different angles on these things. Yeah, 544 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: and they're a great choke too, and you can compare 545 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: it word for word. Eventually, by comparing the transcripts on 546 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: the blogs, right, they're like they were a lot more 547 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: factual than Chuck and Josh. All right, Josh, I'm gonna 548 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: call this critical email from Katie. We don't read a 549 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: lot of criticisms much, but this was very specific, so 550 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: I thought we would. Hi, Chuck and Josh. I'm a 551 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: new listener, but it recently listened to about sixty of 552 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: your shows. I am thirty one years old and work 553 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: as a film producer. You guys have really grown on 554 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: me slowly. The concept of the show is the best part. 555 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: I think there are a few things that keeping or 556 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: keeping you guys from really going big and would like 557 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: to share my thoughts. First, I think the podcast are 558 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: a bit slow and have a few too many personal 559 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: jokes every time Chuck has a personal story to go 560 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: along with the topic. This is the least entertaining and interesting. 561 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: Your personal relationships to the topic are mundane. Sorry, this 562 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: should be cut. The banter is good. You are clearly 563 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: smart and witty, and that is enough to keep the 564 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: listener engaged. Josh, your intros are so boring. Why not 565 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: mix it up and or cut the small Talk. I 566 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: fast forward past it every time, and I think your 567 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: listener mail is the worst part of the podcast. I 568 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: think you lose at least half, if not more, of 569 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: your listeners at this part. Save that stuff for the blog. 570 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: The podcasts themselves need to be solid and tight. The 571 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: production value fails in comparison to This American Life or 572 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: Planet Money. For these reasons, I would highly suggest getting 573 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: a new producer. Taking pot shots at Jerry, it's just 574 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: so wrong. You need to make over big time. You 575 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: need new music in your intros and throughout the shopper apps, 576 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: sound effects and more. Out of studio commentary. Some of 577 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: my favorite podcast our Saunas, Hangovers, Cremation, Sherpa's Reincarnation, Mummies, 578 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: and Altitude basically go be Radio Lab. I listened to 579 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: your Guatemala pieces while I was traveling Guatemala last week. 580 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: Pretty cool in hopes of supplementing my education about the 581 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: country while traveling there. But you failed miserably. Actually, she 582 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: says it failed miserable. I get the point, though. Uh. 583 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: They were my least favorite podcast you guys have done, 584 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: and I think you genuinely wasted your listeners time with 585 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: your personal, pointless stories about your free vacation. I was 586 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 1: shocked to learn how small your perspective of the world is, 587 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: considering how often you both write and research about the world. 588 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: Your impressions of Guatemala sounded like you've never left the South. Uh. 589 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: They were naive and not worthy of two hours of 590 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: my time. On the other hand, it was fantastic to 591 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: listen how volcanoes work while climbing volcanoes in Antigua. This 592 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: is what you guys are best at and you need 593 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: to stick to this, but it needs to be better. Seriously, 594 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: you have mastered the podcast medium, but there is so 595 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: much potential yet to be tapped. And she says taped, 596 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: I guess she means tapped. I hope you guys continue 597 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: to make great podcast and that you really up the 598 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: production value. Thank you, Katie M. P s. I happen 599 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: to own a house in Turkey and I've spent much 600 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: time in Turkish bats. You define them incorrectly in your 601 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: Sono podcast. Who's that Katie? Yes, Katie M. Thank you 602 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: Katie with the tips. We appreciate the insight and thanks 603 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: for listening. You don't know why, but thank you for listening. 604 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: Right well, we've mastered the medium. Okay, except for like 605 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: the fifty points. Well, if you have any pointers for 606 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: us or tips, we want to hear them. We're always 607 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: open to that kind of thing, So shoot us an 608 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: email at Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com, 609 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: be short at check out our new video podcast, Stuff 610 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we 611 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.