WEBVTT - Episode 855: Border Security and the Los Angeles Protests 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.960 On this episode of Newsworld, I wanted to discuss the 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.399 recent ice raids and the protest in Los Angeles, what 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.880 they mean and what I think needs to be done 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.640 to move forward with immigration policy. So I'm really pleased 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.960 to welcome my guests Joshua Travino. He is the Senior 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.959 Fellow for the Western Hemisphere Initiative at the America First 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:41.120 Policy Institute and a good friend. Joshua, Thank you, and 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:42.960 welcome back to Newsworld. 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.519 Thank you, Speaker Gingrich, pleased to be here. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.440 I'm curious in the wake of the recent unrest in California, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.720 many Americans were surprised to see Mexican flags waved as 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.640 cars burned. Did you think this was merely symbolic or 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.200 was it part of a deeper, coordinated political message, as is. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.600 So often the case in human events. The answer is both, 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:06.760 but it's more one than the other. A use of 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.240 the Mexican flag that is symbolic in certain quarters, although 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.920 I should note that as a Mexican American myself, you 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.360 don't see it much in my native South Texas. It's 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.280 not the case in California, and it's because you have 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.640 a different and differently politicized population there. The challenge for 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.040 the United States at large comes in the reality that 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.320 the existence of these flags and their deployment in civil 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.800 unrest is not mere organic expressions of what I would 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:39.160 describe as legitimate cultural pride. There are specific political messages, 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.280 There are specific attacks on American sovereignty coming from within 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.800 the United States, and I think most consequentially for US, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.080 those attacks upon sovereignty are actively supported by the Mexican 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.720 regime itself. And we can talk about the rhetoric that 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.920 they've deployed as this unrest has gone on, but it's 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:56.840 something that we need to notice and understand. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:02.080 What do you think has the protest in Los Angeles 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.640 and the way they spread quickly to places like Seattle, 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:07.720 New York and Chicago. 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:11.959 The left has spent almost a generation now. I don't 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.600 think it really came to the four until the protests 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.240 against the Iraq War and the George W. Bush administration 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.840 really alerted the mainstream American left to the reality that 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.639 they had a mass mobilization potential that could slide into 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.919 violence pretty easily. And so you saw this develop over 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.720 essentially the past twenty years, moving into the Occupy Wall 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.079 Street movement and then really taking off in Barack Obama's 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.840 second term with the unrested Ferguson and in other places, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.799 and I think culminating in what was to my mind 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.280 genuinely an insurrection in summer twenty twenty in which the 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.359 violent apparatus at the left was brought to bear against 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.639 I wouldn't even say conservative governance, but simple American constitutional 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.040 governance at large. It is a movement that has really 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.399 brought back unfortunately, political assassination to American civics has really 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.040 made us in the street violence. And So to your question, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.360 what we're seeing, what we've seen in Los Angeles, what 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.959 we saw in other cities is at a fundamental level, 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:11.000 a reactivation of that network of violence, a resort by 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.880 a movement that cannot win through persuasion, cannot win at 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.160 the ballot box, to the fundamental pre political force, which 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.840 is force it self. And that's what we're seeing. In 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.320 the case of LA You've got third party foreign state 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.200 involvement as well. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:25.720 Now what do you mean by that? 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.560 What I mean is that their underlying motives for the 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.400 violence in Los Angeles, in particular, talking about seeing the 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.839 deployment of Mexican flags and so on, and it's something 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.200 that we have to understand because it's not mere humanitarian impulse. Right, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.600 it's not sorrow for the migrants, and it's not sorrow 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.600 for those being deported. What ice Wood President Trump is, 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.760 i think correctly striking at and enacting these deportations, and 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.760 specifically in the precipitating events in Los Angeles where they 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.440 were going after apparently a human trafficking hub, is they're 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.800 striking at a profit model that benefits both the cartels 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.480 and their partners the Mexican regime. That's important to understand. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.240 The business model for the cartel's visa v. Human trafficking, 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.960 which characterizes one hundred percent of a legal migration these 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.240 days and has for some time, can really be thought 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.240 of as sort of an evil subscription service. They extort 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.240 the trafficked people on their way to the border, but 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.480 once the border is crossed, the expectation and it's enforced, 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.960 is that these individuals will go to jobs in the 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.159 United States. Frequently they're already set up, and they will 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.800 continue to fund the cartels and their partners in the 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.240 Mexican state, in particular with remittances that come back. This 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.719 is why, for example, you saw the President of Mexico 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.960 essentially threaten protests and demonstrations in the United States if 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.240 remittances were taxed. This is a big deal for them. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.920 It's billions of dollars in revenue. It's no wonder that 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.320 violence resulted when that model was attacked, But of course, 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:50.960 for us, the answer is that we should keep attacking it. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.400 From your perspective, do you think their effort is designed 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.320 to try to make it so difficult for ICE to 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:04.200 operate that the whole deportation system eventually just collapses. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.160 Oh, without question, Without question, they want to raise the 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.880 price tag of deportations. They want to raise the price 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.920 tag of enforcement actions and make it not worthwhile, because, 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.680 of course, the theory of action is that if every 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.240 time you conduct a workplace raid, or you conduct a deportation, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.839 or it's a surprise apprehension that a mob's going to gather, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.040 then the operational calculus changes, and frankly, it will if 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.440 taken to its logical extreme. It's an environment in which 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.279 two things happen. One is that deportations can't occur, but 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.120 that's not the real goal. The real goal is that 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.360 it becomes an environment in which law ordered governance can't occur, 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.919 and that's the ultimate end state of the other side. 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.760 The Democratic leader in the House made a comment the 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.960 other day that ICE agents should not wear a mask 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.520 because eventually you're going to figure out who you are. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.479 And I thought, thinking back, for example, to the Italian 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.360 tradition trying to deal with the mafia, in fact, you 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.200 put their wives and their families and their children at 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.599 risk if they become known. And I think people don't 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.600 realize how elaborate and how intense the opposition can become. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.960 I think you're completely right, and I guess two observations 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.520 on that. One is the exactly to your point. This 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.159 is something that characterizes law enforcement in places that are 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:27.520 stricken with organized crime, Italy being one example, Mexico being another. Actually, 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.320 there's a reason that when you see anti cartel operations, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.920 really anti cartel operations, the agents the military law enforcement 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.480 are masked, and it's because people do go after families. 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.760 But there's something else that's even more portentous for us 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.360 as Americans buried in that, and it's that this Democratic 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.320 comment indicates a fracturing of what used to be sort 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.679 of a criminal code. I don't want to ascribe honor 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.040 to thieves. But it is the reality that rewinding back 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.479 to the nineteen forties is a very famous incident in 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.000 which there was a member of one of the Five 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:58.920 Families in New York and the New York City mafia 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.120 wanted to kill Thomas and you probably know about this, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.839 so he proposed it, and in response, the other mafioso 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.119 has killed him because that was a line that wasn't crossed. 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.680 You didn't go after law enforcement, certainly not their families. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.240 If that's changed in modern day America, then it's a 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.640 very very dark passage for us, and it's one to 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.440 which we should spare no effort to reverse. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.840 To what extent are we seeing behaviors that have been 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.760 relatively normal in Mexico as the cartels fight to take 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.320 control of the country. To what extent have we seen 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.200 them starting to come across the border and also begin 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.960 to be part of the operating reality we have to 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:35.960 deal with in the US. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.000 That's a great question. Those of us who followed the 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.720 cartels and the breakdown of Mexican civics and the Mexican 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.000 state partnership with the cartels over many years have known 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.640 for some time that a lot of the features of 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.440 Mexican cartel violence have been present in the United States 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.280 for a while. I was in Laredo, Texas, my father's 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.280 hometown actually about a year ago, and we talked with 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.720 some security personnel, and there's kidnap houses in Laredo where 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.600 people or kidnapp they're tied up. The only thing that 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.600 doesn't happen in the United States is the murder. They're 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.440 taken across the river and then killed these victims. But 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.200 you go to a place like Phoenix and they do 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:13.080 have operational sites where people are killed. The personnel, the methodologies, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.440 the expertise is all present in the United States. The 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.200 only thing that we have yet to see is mass 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.640 attacks on law enforcement. I would say, prior to two 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.600 weeks ago, mass attacks on law enforcement, actual seizure of territory. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.280 Those would be the two phenomenon in Mexico that we 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.720 haven't seen in the US yet. But again, going back 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:33.959 to la you can argue that both of these are 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.960 increasingly in evidence. I think the seal is broken and 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.520 we need to look for more of this. Unfortunately, as 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.480 one goes on, because that expertise is not here in 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.600 the United States. Just to enjoy the weather, it's here 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.280 for a purpose to what he said. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:51.239 With us almost inevitably draw us into fighting the cartels 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:52.360 in Mexico itself. 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.600 That's a great question. It depends on which section of 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.600 the executive apparatus you talk to. There is I think 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.440 it's fair to say, and most of it's occurring in public, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.640 some of it's behind the scenes. But there's a debate 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.680 underway within the Trump administration as to how much to do. 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.240 I'll be circumspect in naming who, but there is a 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.880 cohort that genuinely believes that the path forward is as 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.320 much cooperation as we can get with the regime, with 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.360 this cartel affiliated regime. I happen to disagree with that, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.600 but it's a real position, and it's one that is 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.600 going to point toward and what they see is the 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.440 superseding interest in trade between Mexico and the United States. 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.440 And there's another cohort from public reporting you can characterize 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.400 as based more around the Defense and National Security apparatus 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.120 that really does believe that American hard power needs to 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:39.960 be brought to bear and that we need to be 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.559 willing to do things that the Mexican state itself will 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.160 not No surprise. That's where I'm aligned. I think that 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.199 happens to be a correct analysis of the nature of 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.520 the Mexican state. But the debate is unfolding, and I'll 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.839 tell you, Speaker Gingrich, that we're going to see who wins. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:58.000 The debate is in the conversations on reauthorizing USMCA, which 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.920 are opening this fall and need to be completed by 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.400 July first, twenty twenty six. If you see US asking 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.760 for security concessions from the Mexican's real ones, then you'll 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.800 know that the security side one. But if you see 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.800 it just tracked on the trade and commerce lines, you'll 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:13.960 know that something else has happened. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.720 I mean, it's reported that Stephen Miller issued it directed 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.560 from the White House, that I should make a minimum 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.040 of three thousand arrests a day. Is that kind of 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:47.960 mathematically oriented model a sustainable approach to deportation. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.560 It's impossible to evaluate on my end because I don't 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.320 know the rationale behind it, and I also don't know 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.760 the timeframe behind what's been reported on the three thousand 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.000 a day. How I interpret the number which I can't 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.120 read Stephen Miller's mind, And I think this is probably 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.880 correct given his public record, I interpret the number is 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.800 really sort of along the lines of build the wall, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:07.320 which is not going to be a physical wall in 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.680 every single spot on the border, but it's demand for 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.120 meaningful action, and I think that's right. So if the 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.560 numbers three thousand, if it's five thousand, if it's two thousands, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.040 what he's asking for is more, and he's asking for 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.520 a meaningful dent in the illegal population, which again I'm 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.240 of the school that it's in the tens of millions 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.800 and not in the single digit millions, and so the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.160 need for haste is evident. And I think that accentuates 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.920 if you think I'm not saying Stephen Miller thinks this, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.520 because he probably doesn't, But if you think that the 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.800 midterms next year will go poorly for the Republicans, when. 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.000 You think about deportation, in your mind, what scale is 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.640 sustainable and necessary. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:48.640 Part of this is a prudential question as to what 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.720 the apparatus at hand is. I don't think there's much 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.559 more important in American governance right now than mass deportation. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.080 That's not a position I would have held a decade 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.439 ago in full candor on the South Tech and we're 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.079 accustomed to cross border movement. But as conservatives, we follow 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.360 prudence in reality, and one of the realities is that 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.640 the nature of crossing has changed. It's trafficking, it's cartels, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.880 it's got state backing. So rooting that out is almost 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:18.080 existentially important at this point. I'll say this too. In 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.920 the past six to eight weeks, we have seen not 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.920 one but two incredible examples of strategic blows landed at 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.160 both the Russians and then the Iranians by what all 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.640 describe archly is alien populations within. And that's not a 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.760 complaint about American diversity. I'm Mexican American. My sons are Chinese, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.360 so we're beneficiaries this catholicity of American identity that we have. 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.120 But we also have a duty to secure ourselves and 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.240 to secure our homeland and our way of life. And 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.120 an illegal population in the tens of millions is by 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.960 its nature a threat, because it takes a sliver of 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.040 one percent of that population to be antagonistic toward us 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.679 to constitute a true strategic threat to the United States. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:05.320 Numbers seventeen million. How would you go about finding and 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.120 deporting seventeen million people? 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.160 Oh gosh, I can give guidelines to it, which I'm 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.560 sure has already been thought of by mister Miller and 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.280 the folks at DHS. You know that they cluster in 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.560 particular sectors. You know that they cluster in particular communities. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.600 You know that they cluster in particular geographies. This is 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.120 where in the United States it gets a bit complicated, because, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.160 of course we have nothing like a national ID card. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.800 The closest we have to it is kind of an 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.000 ad mixture of Social Security numbers and driver's licenses, neither 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.360 of which are totally secure. But you've got to have 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.160 an apparatus that's capable of discerning and adjudicating at that scale. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:41.880 It's not clear to me that we have everything that 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.280 we need. I think our friends at DHS would agree 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.040 that they could do with more resources, So we ought 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:47.520 to properly resource it to that end. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.719 Don't you all only need some kind of administrative procedure 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.480 that somehow identifies and checks each person. 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.160 Probably, yeah, you probably do. And there's attempts at that 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.400 HE verify being one, normal employment verification, whether it's a 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.800 ten ninety nine or a W two being another, and 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.200 so that just needs to be enforced. Probably too, there 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.040 needs to be I'll venture into a little bit of 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.880 an area of ignorance for myself which will make me 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.920 like every other public commentator on all topics, which is 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.520 that there probably needs to be more employer's side enforcement 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:19.880 as well. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.200 In your mind, is that done with the active cooperation 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.600 of the employers or is it done by operating raids. 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.160 It's got to be both. You can't assume a single 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.160 prong approach for this kind of thing. I guess, no, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:35.920 it's more than a guess. I think the truth is 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.640 that most American employers will want to cooperate. There will 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.680 be a subset who don't. Those are the ones that 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.480 you maintain the capacity and practice of raids. 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.880 For One of the groups have been called dreamers, and 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.640 they've been identified several different times by Obama and by Trump. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.880 Do you carve them out or just deport them? 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.280 The category of dreamers, it's unfortunate because it's such a 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.840 tough one from a perceptual stand point, But we have 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.760 to understand why these categories exist. The category of the 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:11.000 dreamer was specifically created to make from a communicative perspective, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.600 a cohort of what i'll put in quotes acceptable illegal 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.960 aliens in the United States, the conservatives and also rule 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.960 of law oriented liberals and Democrats, of whom there are 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.480 many would find it politically impossible to deport, and then 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.960 having established that precedent, then you could move outward because then, 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.600 of course the point is conceded that you can't deport everybody. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:33.720 It's tough, but you have to have the law of 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.240 the law, not in a mindless fashion, but in a 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.160 fashion that displays the prudential wisdom of understanding why it 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.520 is that the other side created this category to start with. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.720 So no, I wouldn't create a carp for dreamers. I 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.480 would establish the same standard for each Here's the thing, though, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.120 that you know, for those wanting a prudential individual level 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.960 applications of the law and justice and individual cases, you 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.360 can actually do that once you've cleared out the tens 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.240 of millions who've come in. You can actually do that 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.600 once you've solved the major problem. Tactical solutions become possible 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.520 only when the strategic challenge has been met, And we 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.400 still have to meet the strategic challenge. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.600 How many million do you think you have to be 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.000 deported to have met the strategic challenge? 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.920 That depends upon your theory of how many are here, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.280 which nobody really knows. I am of the school of 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.480 thought that it's between twenty and thirty million, which is 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.840 a titanic number. I've heard Obviously, either are those who 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.720 go much lower than that the high end that I've heard. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:29.440 I don't adhere to this, but I have heard of 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.040 incredible peoples that it's in the thirty to fifty million range. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.720 I find that strange mycadriulity, but it could be the case. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.440 You have to deport enough. We can't get into macnamara solutions. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.360 There's not a body count of the day that's going 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.240 to be adequate. We have to look to change behaviors. 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.800 We should deport enough to break the business model that 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.160 facilitated the deportations period full stop. That could be five million, 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.680 that could be two guys. We don't know, and it's 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.880 the unknowability that militates toward us having to apply all 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.920 efforts to get to it. I think we'll know when 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.600 we see, and until then we keep it going full speed. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.320 One of the side problems here is the White House 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.840 on February first, issued a fact she that says, quote, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:17.520 the Mexican drug trafficking organizations have an intolerable alliance with 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.959 the government of Mexico, and the Mexican President, Claudia Scheinbaum, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:28.720 strongly opposed designating the cartels as foreign terrorists. Has she 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.840 largely been not helpful? 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.760 Oh, that depends on who you ask. The State Department 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.119 will tell you that she's been the most helpful person 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.640 of all time. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:39.800 Of course, that could be a very limited description. 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.160 Indeed, it could. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. No, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.720 but unfortunately they really are cooperating and selling her and 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.920 her regime as a genuine partner, which they're not. First 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.800 of all, the Mexican state is in partnership with its cartels. 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.040 There is a Mexican state cartel alliance. It has existed 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.639 for years. And what changed in twenty eighteen the arrival 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.359 of the current Mexican regime under the Morena Party, is 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.679 that it rose from becoming sort of an opportunistic partnership 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.040 to one that really was essential to the advancement of 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.000 this leftist Venezuela's style ideology that Morena is using to 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.960 transform Mexican society. So it is an existential partnership for them. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.200 They need it and they require it for the maintenance 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.200 of their rule. What President Claudia Scheinbaum in Mexico has 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.720 done very smartly, I think. I mean, she's a very 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.360 intelligent and cunning person, not like her predecessor at all, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.600 who was much more of a blunt instrument. She understands 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.480 that so long as she can provide what I'll call 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.480 the tactical window dressing to the Americans, sending over individual narcos, 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.480 sending over criminals, sending over cartel bosses, that most of 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.080 our governing apparatus is going to interpret that as sufficient cooperation. 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.240 It's not. And this is something that we've said at 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.320 the America First Policy Institute and also at the Texas 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.159 Public Policy Foundation for some time now, which is that 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.760 real change comes not when the handover cartel members, but 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.919 when the handover politicians. When you see political actors, officeholders, governors, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.600 cabinet secretaries, senators, congressmen, and even the former president of 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.919 Mexico himself under indictment and handed over to the Americans, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.760 then we'll know that they're serious about breaking the cartel alliance. 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.880 But we haven't seen that yet, and I don't think 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.280 we're going to and until that happens to a meaningful 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.760 degree from within their own party. It is a signal 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.520 to us that they are going to maintain that partnership 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:27.520 with their cartels. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.000 And in March twenty twenty five, Fox News up ed 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:53.080 you wrote that the Mexican state quote establishes Marina Party, 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.879 sells throughout the United States, and activates someone desired. What 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:57.600 does that mean? 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.080 We have to understand that the Mexicans, even prior to 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.600 Morena's arrival at national power, has always regarded its nationals 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.440 abroad and it's illegal migrants abroad as its own. Now, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.720 in a sense, that's not unusual. I mean, we regard 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.600 Americans abroad as our own as well. But what's different 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.160 about the Mexican regime's attitude toward Mexicans in the United 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.960 States is that they're essentially active participants in the corpus 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.240 of Mexican civics. So, for example, if you are a 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.480 Mexican national in the US, whether you're here illegally or 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.880 not is irrelevant to them. In fact, they think it's 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.760 virtuous if you're here illegally in some way. Some of 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.959 the ideologues will say that. But if you're a Mexican 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.800 resident in say California or Texas, or Nebraska or Iowa. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.400 You actually have a congressman representing you in the Mexican Congress. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.480 You actually have a liputado who you can vote for 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.280 the Mexican Consulate. You actually have allocated votes for Mexicans 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.600 abroad in the presidential races. It's very different than what 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.400 you see in the United States. I mean, it's unthinkable 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.560 that Americans in France would have electoral votes for themselves, 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.720 so but the Mexicans do that. And it's because this 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:03.120 this ideological belief that wherever the Mexican population is, there 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.720 too is Mexico. And that goes double for essentially the 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.800 southwestern quadrant of the United States, everything from California all 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.840 the way over to Texas, which in official Mexican discourse 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.120 you see this over and over and over, is still 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.879 regarded as fundamentally Mexican land. I'm personally offended by this. 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.560 As a descendant of them. Thank God for Zachary Taylor's army. 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.840 It's the best thing that happened to my lineage. That's 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.040 something that they operationalize. And so to your question about 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.879 the Morena party, cells Morena has followed this to the 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:31.639 logical degree, and they do have party sales in the 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.760 United States, and these party cells, we've seen them activate 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.159 from time to time. I have personally seen Morena posters, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.800 not even election related, but just posters affirming loyalty to 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.679