WEBVTT - Nvidia Says It’s Getting Orders From China 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:13.320 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.200 from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.640 and Eva Though in San Francisco. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:23.759 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.759 In video says it's now getting orders from China and 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.560 ramping up sales of its. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.240 H two hundred chips plus. In video, CEO. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.160 Jason Warms says that Openclaw is quote definitely the next 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:39.199 chat ChiPT. I'll comment, there's Chinese AI stocks higher, and 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.080 we bring you in exclusive interview with the CEO of Kalshi. 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.240 That's after Arizona file criminal charges against the prediction market platform. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.199 But first we check in on these public markets roiled 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.279 by geopolitics, by macro events, and we keep an eye 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:54.960 on what's happening terms of the stock market now is 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.520 that one hundred is off by five ten percent, the 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.720 SMP is lower after two straight days of and this 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.960 is as we see oil spral higher more than five 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.319 point five percent. This is a question of conflict in 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.039 the Middle East that seems to be accelerating, and we're 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.440 starting to see infrastructure continue to be targeted. That is 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.240 of course spiraling concerns about oil prices. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.280 Now, all of this is an infratiory pressure. 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.200 On the back of PPI numbers today that show that 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:19.600 inflatory pressure is already. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:20.880 Here in the United States. What will the Fed do 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:21.600 later today? 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.760 All eyes on macro policy at this moment, but there's 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.000 also all eyes on what's happening in terms of individual stocks. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.319 And there is a macrotail at play when it comes 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.280 to in video and the demand for compute, and also 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.680 what's happening with China demand signals actually a sign off 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.360 from the Chinese government at least, we're starting to see 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.280 a bit more of an appetite for buying into Invidia stocks. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.959 As GtC continues, let's just get more context on the 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.640 market moves. What's happening with Nvidia? Bloomberg Carmen, Ryanikey joins us. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.000 Look in video is one of the few names that 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.280 pushes to the green today, alongside the likes of Micron 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.480 and others. Carmen, How is Nvidia able to shake off 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.840 what for the rest of the market is angst about 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:01.000 the Middle East and inflation. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.440 Yeah, I mean, it really seems like investors are getting 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.079 a little bit more confident with Invidia here. I think 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.840 that Jensen has said a lot during this conference that hopefully, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.280 you know, making people feel a little bit more confident. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.680 I mean, the orders from China is very positive, something 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.760 that investors have been looking for for a long time 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.359 from Nvidia, and he also said yesterday that they are 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:26.520 looking at a very large number to go into buybacks, 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.840 and you know, the dividend for Invidia. So I think 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.720 these are all things that are positive and are maybe 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.360 helping the stack sort of shake off some of those 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.200 macro pressures that we're seeing really way down the rest 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:37.840 of the market. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.760 What have been extraordinary is that one trillion dollar figure 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.519 initially said didn't spur any absolute buying, but then he's 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.880 trying to articulate that that one trillion can then be 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.160 added to other new products. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:50.919 That are coming to the market. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.919 Is well likely to inject upside to that number. 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.239 Yeah, exactly, and I think that upside is really important. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.000 He did clarify a very specific that doesn't include you know, 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.360 the new products that are coming out, so you know, 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.919 a lot of the positivity I think is baked into 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.160 the stock, but that potential for future growth, which is 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.480 what everybody you know expects from in video, but he 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.720 wants to see even more of is really positive here, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.679 especially when we're seeing a backdrop that has so much 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.080 uncertainty for the rest of the market. And you know, 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.000 I mean in Video is still the biggest stock in 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.520 the s and P five hundred, So seeing you go 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.320 up when sort of the rest of the market goes 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.640 down is significant because if you're selling the SMP, you know, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.600 you're also selling a lot of in video. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.200 A just of course speaks in big numbers talking about 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.320 how computing demand has increased by one million times in 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.840 the last two years. But he's pushing forward on where 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:42.920 next for compute and that's going to be driven by 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.760 a gender ki. You saw his adoption of this chatchypd 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.840 moment for Openclore really helping Chinese names. 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.040 Is it going to have a read across to the US. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.000 You know, that's something we're definitely looking for, and I mean, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.120 I guess it sort of means to be seen. You know, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.800 we know that, you know, in Vidia does definitely moves 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.000 you know, stocks of other companies that are related, and 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.440 we see that on a global scale. So you know, 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.920 we've seen through GtC, you know, companies that have partnerships 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.760 with Nvidia get some investor confidence through some buying into 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.160 their their stock. It's seen no reason why we wouldn't 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.480 see more buying into certain US companies sort of based 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.760 on this news. And you know, going forward there. 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.680 I've already seen stain analysts trying to talk about the 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.000 companies that will be benefited by claw open claw the 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.719 CLAW six. We'll see if that catches on Bloomberg's common Ryanikey, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.080 thank you very much. Indeed, now in Vidia CEO does, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.920 and Wang was indeed articulating this projection for a trillion 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.120 dollars plus in AI chip sales and the fact that 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.680 of course it doesn't include other product offerings. Now we've 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.080 already got the signal of the upside Bloomberg Intelligence noting 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.039 that this reinforces confidence in AI demand through twenty twenty seven. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.200 And in Vidia's market leadership. 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.400 Let's get more on that with Kim Forest's CIO of 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.320 Boka Capital Partners. Look, we're used to Jenson Wang being optimistic. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.760 Are you buying into it, Kim? 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:01.200 Kind of? 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:01.680 Sort of? 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.000 I mean, he really is the poster child of AI 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.760 buildout right, And for the longest time until this GtC, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.320 we've all made the assumption that this is going to 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.520 happen at large data centers, and that is the who 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.560 the company was serving. Probably the hidden gem in his 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.560 comments were that only sixty percent of the chips that 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.240 they're selling right now are going towards those large data centers. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.479 But then corporations who are trying to figure out maybe 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.480 developing some in house you know, uses of this are 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.799 now buying their products. And I think that's really interesting 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.520 and kind of takes a little pressure off of the 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.480 company because it isn't solely dependent on you know what Core, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.640 We even Microsoft and you know the rest of the 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:51.800 gang are buying. 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.560 That is not just about GPUs, CPUs, even LPUS is 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.920 actually about the software side. How much did you pay 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.440 attention to Nemo claw, for example, the way in which 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.880 seems as though Jensen one's trying to get in on 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.480 the enterprise desire to have safe agenda KI. 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.599 Right, And I you know, I talked to a lot 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.440 of people in my job, and I have heard more 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:19.760 and more companies rolling out agentic services for their employees, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.480 making them more productive. Now you know what the spending 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.360 on that is going to be. It's anyone's guess. I 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.960 am going to point back to the dot com Era, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.360 which it wasn't just about pets dot com and stamps 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.919 dot com and all that kind of goofy stuff. But 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.400 rolled into that was the Y two K conversion that 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.720 a lot of companies were undergoing. And one of the 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.320 flaws and thinking by investors during that time was that 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.480 spending was going to go on in perpetuity. What companies 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.560 were spending on it for that Y two K conversion 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.880 was thought to, you know, it will bloom and blossom 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.320 into other areas, and it didn't happen. And I think 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.200 this is a warning for this technology as well. I've 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.440 seen some really goofy estimates that you know, companies are 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.400 going to be spending on this, you know, in perpetuity 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:14.280 in the trillions, and that's really not how technology works. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.600 People want an end to it, and they just want 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.160 to use the build out and they just want to 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:24.200 use the technology for productivity. So investors beware, well how 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:24.520 of them? 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.240 For should the warnings to investors be about im perpetuity 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.960 the pricing of memory going at a higher At the moment, 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.000 we seem to be getting endless calls that this is 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.160 going to be at least until maybe twenty thirty, but 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.120 there's got to be demand destruction and that's going to 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.640 be focused on in Micron's numbers after the bell exactly. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:47.480 And Micron is a really great example of this, right 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.640 because they had been participating and I'd love to say 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:56.440 this world oligopoly about six companies that were making land 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.240 and dram memory, right and what would happen was somebody 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.720 would bring on a new supply and that would just 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.120 kill nand prices because it was kind of a commodity. Well, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.239 even though high bandwidth memory is you know, a gating 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.200 factor now for a lot of these build ai buildouts, 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.000 at some point, you know, we're going to go back 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.040 into that boom bust cycle even though it's exotic and 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:28.880 in demand. So I think that Micron just announced that 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.440 they're adding capacity to a Taiwan plant, and you know, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.000 look for the other players in this area to start 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.439 doing that as well. And again it's going it's not 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.040 going to go upwards to the right like it has 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.400 been the demand or the pricing, you know, because we're 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.920 going to have supply demand here entering into this. And 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.679 these are even a smaller oligopoly of about three players 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.359 right now that are making this high bandwidth memory. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.800 How much these stopped price sing in Already the enthusiasm here, Kim, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.320 because we're seeing MI chron rally into its numbers. Are 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.320 people already expecting just killer results? 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.839 And can that? What more? Can the CEO already talk about? 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.360 Absolutely? I mean they are expecting killer results, but the 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:21.160 physical world is going to impact their their you know 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.480 results too, because there's only you can only ship what 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.440 you make and they are running up everybody in this 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:32.080 industry is running up against you know, supply problems and 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.040 you can see that as the chip builders are complaining 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.400 about it. So I would be I am very enthusiastic 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.880 about my crime For the long haul, I think they're 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.800 a great company, but in the short term, I wonder 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.680 can they ship enough to satisfy investors demand? And I 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:51.520 guess tonight we'll see. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:56.240 We've also seen perhaps a slight quantening of the anxiety 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.280 around the AI trade, just from a can we afford it? 0:09:59.400 --> 0:09:59.880 Will it? Really? 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.440 Do we need this level of data center build out perspective? 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:03.760 Kim? 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.400 Where is the anxiety right now for you? When it 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:10.559 comes to the still optimism we see baked into the 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:11.200 stock market. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.720 Sure well, I have some real questions about how much 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.120 capacity is needed. While I'm a huge bull on AI, 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.079 I understand what it can do, I am not still 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.280 convinced that large language models are the way forward forever 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:27.680 and ever. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:28.199 Amen. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.559 I think they've done wonderful things in solving natural language processing, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:37.040 but I don't know that that is what we're going 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.600 to do in let's say five years. So my fear 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:45.360 still is that we are building our investors are building 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.480 their expectations on what they know today, and I think 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:54.280 things can change very very quickly with innovations like I 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.280 don't know, open Claw or whatever it is. You know 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.800 where I'm sure where companies using worst profiting power and 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:02.880 getting more being from. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:04.960 The bark unpredictability in the stock market. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.000 That's exactly what Howard Marks is calling out today when 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.760 it comes to AI. Kim Forrest, CIO of Booker Capital Partners, Great. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:11.839 To have some time with you. Now. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.360 Coming up, we're going to be speaking with Tarik Mansur 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.840 Cal she CEO and co founder has after Arizona filed 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.880 criminal charges against the Prediction market platform one. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.040 Next this is bluembed Tech. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.440 Arizona has filed criminal charges against CALS, accusing the company 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.439 of operating an illegal gambling business. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.120 So next, Tim Stenovich. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.120 Joins us now and Kaoshi Kofanna and CEO Tim take 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:46.480 it away. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.440 Hi, We're joined by Tarak Monsieur. He's the CEO and 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.520 co founder of Call She. Tarak, good to see you. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.920 Thanks for joining us on this. Look, even though other 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.640 state regulators have taken steps to crack down on what 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.520 they say is unlicensed betting on call She's site, Arizona 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.599 appears to be the first to escalate to criminal charges. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.240 What is your response to these charges? 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.080 Look, I mean, these charges have nothing to do with 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.679 gambling or the merits. If it was about gamling or 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.520 the merits, they would let the judicial process fright its 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.000 course in the federal courts. You know, five days ago 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.640 on Thursday, CALCI filed suit against Arizona and federal courts 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.720 on the mets on whether Calshi is subject to exclusive 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.520 jurisdiction of the CFTC. And you know, we're confident opposition 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.480 and wanted to let the court process play out. And 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.080 instead of letting that happen, the Arizona Attorney General decided 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.320 to subvert the judicial process and weaponize it and go 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.719 to state court and file these criminal charges, which you 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:41.719 know we view as merit lists and basis. We see 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.040 this as a total overstep and we look forward to 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:44.760 fighting it in court. 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:46.439 Well, experts are saying this could be the first of 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.880 many charges such as these from other states too. How 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.400 does it change your legal strategy. 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.240 Well, this is the whole point of federal preemption. So 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.640 this is not about camera. The charges that the Attorney 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.679 General filed are not about gambling. They're not even about 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.680 sports only. They're about prediction markets writ large. It's just, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.880 you know, attacking the entire business model. And nothing prevents 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.240 from the same attorney general or others from fighting the 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.440 same criminal charges against derivatives' markets writ large. They could 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.320 file the same exact charges under the same analysis against 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.480 CME or ICE or NASDAC. And that's the whole point 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.559 of federal regulation of these financial exchanges is to prevent 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.520 this sort of chaos and these sort of attacks on 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.320 these businesses that could be political in nature or other. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:30.440 And that's a very important distinction. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.280 Well, I read the charging document from the Attorney General 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.920 as twenty charges. They're mostly about betting and wagering. When 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.000 it comes to sports, there's some election stuff in there. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.520 Would you ever consider limiting your business in Arizona or 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.720 other states, to things that these ags don't seem to 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.920 have problems with, like economic data, the price of bitcoin, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.680 what markets are going to do predictions around those things. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.320 Look, I mean the AGE also claim that we have 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.200 war markets, which is incorrect. It's either flat out to 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.200 lie or it's misinformed take which is unfortunate for someone, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.120 you know, filing criminal charges against the company. What's more 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.080 important here, again is this is not about the merits. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.720 If it's about the merits, let's let the judicial process 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.920 run its course in federal courts. This is about something 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.480 other than the merits, which is what I'm focused on. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.000 I don't know what the AGE is focused on, but 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.320 you know she is off for reelection. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:22.480 You know, it does. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.520 It did some press, It does seem to be making 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.000 some buzz. But what I'm really focused on is building 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.280 a great product from lens of customers, out of which 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.960 goes to four hundred thousand are in Arizona and fighting 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.560 any of these basis cases in courts, which was which 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:37.520 we're going to continue doing. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.880 So you're fighting the cases. As I mentioned, Arizona is 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.960 not the only state to take issue with your business. 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.640 What happens. Ultimately, if courts do side with states, what 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.400 does it mean for the future of your company. 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.040 We believe in the rule of law. Right, we will 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.600 always abide by court decisions. The law applies to us, 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.800 but it also applies to the government, including state governments, 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.440 and then it's a very important thing. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:02.320 Right. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.680 This is really not about our business model. Again, if 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.800 it was about our business model, we would be focused 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:13.080 on the federal courts and the lawsuit about the merits. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:18.240 This is a broader attack, and you know many states 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.400 have sided with us and have granted us a preliminary 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.160 in junction, agreeing with our legal analysis. We have spent 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.400 four years getting regulated by the federal government, and we 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.280 have a federal government in the CFTC that is coming 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.800 strongly in favor of our position. Following these charges is 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:36.160 a total total overstep and an overreach from an AG 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.520 that's up for re election, and we find that unfortunate. 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.320 But we will stay focused on what we do best, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.680 which is building a great product. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.520 So certainly the CFTC. We know where the CFTC stands, 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.520 and we know where Michael Mike Seelig stands on this. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.320 We don't know where courts stand on this, and I'm 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:56.000 wondering if we see a state like Nevada, for example, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.200 block access to your business, what will you do? Will 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.800 you continue to operate or will you will you say, Okay, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.680 we're not going to operate in Nevada. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.280 Well, first of all, let's get let's get to that point, 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:10.560 and you know, we'll have to make a decision as 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.400 the company what we do. What I can reiterate is 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.840 we will one hundred percent abye by the law. That's 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.200 what we will do as a company. It's always been 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.040 our position. That's why we spend four years getting regulated upfront, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.120 regulatory first as a company and always abide by the law. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.240 But what I always say, the law applies to us 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.080 as much as it applies to the government, and when 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.080 government oversteps the law and goes out of bound, we're 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.280 going to fight that in court, which we look forward to. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.360 How long does that process take, because it seems like 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.320 there's a regulatory limbo happening. You're you're it's almost like 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:41.680 your legal team is going to have to play whack 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.960 a mole with all these states that are that are 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.000 filing suit or bring in criminal charges. How long is 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:47.640 this going to take? 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.160 And gladly we have a legal team to handle these 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.120 types of things, and we're going to be focused on 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.840 and you know, maybe it's a question for them. I mean, look, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.880 whatever whatever long it takes, we're going to fight for 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.280 prediction markets. I spent eight years building this company, four 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.680 out of which have which are getting regulated upfront. I 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.879 really believe in this marketplace. I'm very excited about the 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.080 growth that we're seeing some of the fast growing company 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.479 companies in America right now. And so what I'm going 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.400 to be focused on is keep building a great product, 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.600 and that's what's sort of most important for me. The 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.760 more important sort of question is, you know, when it 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.040 comes to this is not really about you know, whether 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.080 this is gambling or not. This is not really about 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.240 state versus federal which are both co existing and both growing, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.199 both models. This really is turning into sort of some 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.240 special interests that like the status quo. The status always 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.720 work very well for monopolies, but not for the consumers 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.119 that are flocking to prediction markets right now, which we're 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:38.360 going to keep fidding for Tark. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.720 There is this perception though that people think this is gambling. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.920 An IPSOS survey from just a few weeks ago, for example, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.840 show sixty one percent of adults safe prediction market trading 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.440 is closer to gambling. Eight percent say it's closer to investing. 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.640 So there is this public perception that doesn't necessarily match 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.000 with what you say. The platform is how do you 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.760 respond to that and how do you at all that? Like, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.119 how is this not gambling? 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.919 I haven't really looked at these polls, you know. The 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.720 thing I will say is there's always been a battle 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.960 of whether financial derivatives are gambling. Great features were called 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.720 gambling and the eighteen hundreds, and there was a Supreme 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.360 Court decision that you know, said even though there is speculation, 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.760 these you know, products have financial our structures the financial markets, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.080 and thus are going to fall under financial market jurisdiction. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.520 So I always say this, you know, whether something feels 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.800 and looks like gambling doesn't necessarily make it gambling. Speculation 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.359 exists in all financial markets. If we're going to take 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.760 a line that speculation is gambling, then the stock market 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.960 with retail participation is gambling. Then buying options for retail 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.240 or zero data to expier options is gammling. Then retail 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.280 buying crypto is gambling. The more important line in the 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.840 historical line that we've been taking under the law, but 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.600 also you know, as you think about it societally. Is 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.280 is the business model a gambling business model, which is 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.600 a model where the revenue of the business and the 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.320 profits are equal to the customer's losses, in which case 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.719 the incentive is to promote more losses and blog the winners. 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.480 Or is it an open, free and fair marketplace where 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.840 people can enter in and out freely and transparently, which 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.000 is a financial exchange, which Calci falls under. 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.600 Tark monsieur Calci, co founder and CEO. Tark always good 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.680 to speak with you. Thanks so much for joining us, Caroline, 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:18.159 back to you. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:27.800 Fantastic interview, Tim, thanks for bringing it. The Trump administration 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:32.240 is dialing up efforts to oust Anthropic from all federal agencies, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:34.840 saying the US government has reason to question whether the 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.680 AI firm is a trusted partner after the company asked 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.879 for limits on how its technology was used by the 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.679 Department of Defense. Let's get the latest on this saga 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.919 of Boomberg's AI reporter Rachel Metz. This is now not 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.639 just in the public court of the media. This is 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.080 going to the actual court for a fight out. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.119 Yeah. So as part of this fight between the Anthropic 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.879 and the federal government, the Anthropic has filed to Las 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.399 suits and the one in California has a lot of 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.320 action happening. Yesterday, the federal government said we are going 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:16.320 to fight. We think that Inthropics technology became an unacceptable 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:23.760 risk essentially to the military because Anthropic would not agree 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.240 with a change to its contract that the military wanted 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:29.240