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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 2: name is Nol.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know. A little bit sleep deprived, we're

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Speaker 3: on the road, two thirds of us. But we decided

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Speaker 3: to make good on something we talked about previously. In

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Speaker 3: an earlier episode, we explored a frightened conspiracy surround in

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Speaker 3: prison corruption, tainted blood products, and a global network of

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Speaker 3: blood brokers who, through either net leigence or knowing misconduct,

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Speaker 3: gave thousands of people incredibly dangerous infections HIV, hepatitis, probably more.

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Speaker 3: And in that episode, remember we noted that this was

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Speaker 3: only one blood conspiracy when we'd have to return to

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Speaker 3: them in the future.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yes, So please do go back and check out

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Speaker 4: Bad Blood Part one for the kind of groundwork of

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Speaker 4: how blood and plasma donations work. We will go into

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Speaker 4: some more further detail about that on this episode. We

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Speaker 4: also in that previous episode go into why transfusions are

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Speaker 4: so very important, as well as a brief history of

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Speaker 4: some of the medical breakthroughs that include things like plasma

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Speaker 4: products and the things that can be used to help

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Speaker 4: treat very serious diseases. Hence the extra kind of ickiness

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Speaker 4: when these kind of shortcuts are taken that result in

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Speaker 4: people who are desperately in need of remedy end up

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Speaker 4: being infected when all they are trying to do is

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Speaker 4: cure themselves of an already life threatening condition like hemophilia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is a very good thing, just to

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Speaker 3: get it out in the front, like the idea of blood, transfusions, donations, plasma,

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Speaker 3: all of that has saved millions and millions of lives.

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Speaker 3: Every year. People donate over one hundred million units of

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Speaker 3: blood across the globe. And we talked a little bit

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Speaker 3: about units in our previous episode. I don't think we

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Speaker 3: defined it, so just in case, a unit of blood

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Speaker 3: is about five hundred and twenty five milliliters, roughly the

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Speaker 3: equivalent of one pint, So for loose cocktail napkin blood math,

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Speaker 3: that's a one hundred million pints of blood, which sounds

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Speaker 3: like a lot, and it's a lot. It's a lot

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Speaker 3: of blood. It's if you saw it in one room,

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Speaker 3: you would be like, this is too much blood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, because there are things called blood banks

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Speaker 2: that came around in the late nineteen thirties nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 2: where it's a.

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Speaker 4: Vampire to make their deposits.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but sorry, it is. They make all their deposits.

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Speaker 2: They also make lots of withdraws. But it is crazy

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Speaker 2: to think that since then, since the late nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 2: we have had these things called blood banks. Refrigeration and

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Speaker 2: storage techniques improved a lot from that time. But one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest problems with storing this huge amount of

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Speaker 2: blood that we're talking about here is how quickly that

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Speaker 2: blood goes bad, right yeah, yeah, which means it means

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Speaker 2: there has to be a constant basically flow of blood

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Speaker 2: into the blood banks and out of the blood banks,

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Speaker 2: or else it's wasted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there needs to be a churn there, and not

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Speaker 3: everyone is. There's like a base expected demand for blood

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Speaker 3: or plasma, but not everyone in need of a transfusion

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Speaker 3: needs the same amount of blood obviously, and individual cases

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Speaker 3: vary on so many There are just so many variables, right.

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Speaker 3: We know that demand can also vary by region, peak

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Speaker 3: holiday periods, illnesses like a pandemic, for example, and even

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Speaker 3: just the time of the year can make a big

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Speaker 3: difference because there are times when you know, car accidents

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Speaker 3: might spike and things of that nature. So there's another

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Speaker 3: issue too, right, you have to have the churn. This

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Speaker 3: is not stuff that you should legally or ethically just

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Speaker 3: keep around and roll the dice on. And not everybody

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Speaker 3: can donate blood.

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Speaker 4: I would be interested to know a stat I'm not

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Speaker 4: sure we have this today of how much blood does

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Speaker 4: go to waste if waste is maybe the right word there,

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Speaker 4: because you know, it does have a shelf life. And

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Speaker 4: I would think that there would be people in charge

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Speaker 4: of these types of programs that are gauging demand and

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Speaker 4: you know, keeping that in mind or taking that into account.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in part one, one of the major issues

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Speaker 2: in the Factor eight issue when we were talking about

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Speaker 2: the Arkansas prison system was that their refrigerant systems went out,

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Speaker 2: and almost immediately when that occurs, if the blood has

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Speaker 2: been stored in a non refrigerated unit, it should be

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Speaker 2: thrown away with all of these blood donation programs like

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Speaker 2: across the board anywhere. If it if this blood that's

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Speaker 2: stored is not refrigerated, it should go because it's no

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Speaker 2: longer viable and safe to use. But I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I guess my point here is that keeping stuff cold

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Speaker 2: is very important and that's one of the only reasons

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Speaker 2: that we can actually, you know, have large amounts of

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Speaker 2: this stuff. We didn't even talk about blood types right

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Speaker 2: because of it.

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Speaker 4: We did it, but we did just yeah, yeah, just

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Speaker 4: in terms of like the universal donor and all of

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Speaker 4: that stuff, and then some of the rarer types, and

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Speaker 4: it is really quick. We did find the stat eight

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Speaker 4: point eight seven percent of units donated apparently are discarded

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Speaker 4: in the UK, so globally, globally, it would seem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess there are many reasons why you would

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Speaker 2: have to discard great samples or whatever these leaders of blood.

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Speaker 3: If it's contaminated, then that would be ethically and legally

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Speaker 3: a reason to discard it. We also needed to talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit about the importance of heating different blood

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Speaker 3: products as a way of removing infections. That's what we're

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Speaker 3: saying is is a very important thing. It has saved many,

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Speaker 3: many lives, and there is a lot of stuff that

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Speaker 3: can go wrong, like right now, due to the restrictions

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Speaker 3: on eligibility for blood donors only, like only thirty percent

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Speaker 3: of the US population is thought to be eligible, and

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Speaker 3: there are all kinds of reasons for that, you know,

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Speaker 3: like you are not supposed to donate blood, if you

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Speaker 3: have used needles to inject drugs or steroids without doctor's

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Speaker 3: recommendation HIV, if you have ever had actual relations and

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Speaker 3: return for drugs or money, if you have a couple

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Speaker 3: of different specific diseases, or if you have if you're pregnant,

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Speaker 3: So fewer people can give blood that we might assume.

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Speaker 3: And right now in the US, if you are giving blood,

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Speaker 3: you are donating your blood. You are voluntarily giving it away.

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Speaker 3: But if you're donating plasma, which takes longer, then you

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Speaker 3: you can get compensated. Plasma donations can be compensated in

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Speaker 3: the US just because the process is more involved, Like

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Speaker 3: depending on the version of plasma donation, it's at least

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Speaker 3: ninety minutes to donate, and then you probably are going

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Speaker 3: to be there for two hours because you have to

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Speaker 3: hang out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and definitely eat the cookies. When they offer you cookies,

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Speaker 2: because that's you should need to get that sugar back

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Speaker 2: in your system. But guys, thirty eight percent of people

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Speaker 2: can donate right are eligible. Then let's really think about

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Speaker 2: how many people actually donate, because if like think about voting,

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Speaker 2: everybody that can vote, and then how many people actually

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Speaker 2: vote and take the time to do it. And in

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Speaker 2: this case, you know, a somewhat selfless act, unless you're

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Speaker 2: giving the plasma donation, maybe you can argue that it's

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Speaker 2: you know, for money, but most of this is a

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Speaker 2: selfless act to donate blood. I just wonder how many

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Speaker 2: people actually donate every year. It's got to be pretty low.

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Speaker 4: It does seem like the number has also decreased over

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Speaker 4: the last twenty years. According to a couple of sources

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Speaker 4: that I found about.

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Speaker 3: Forty okay, I was looking at a Red Cross as

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Speaker 3: well too. They have specific demographics of people like the

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Speaker 3: most the age, an identity or the age, and like

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Speaker 3: ethnicity or socioeconomic status. To the people most likely to

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Speaker 3: donate blood, it's college educated males between thirty and fifty

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Speaker 3: or something like that. And this this means that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think is an appropriate example. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: can do this do not. And sometimes it's like one

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Speaker 3: of those things where you think, oh, it's good in theory,

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Speaker 3: but I won't go out of my way to do it. However,

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Speaker 3: if I'm like walking by the mall and I see

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Speaker 3: a blood drive, then I'm happy to do it when

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Speaker 3: I come across it, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I would just have to admit that I

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Speaker 2: don't man, and I should. I know, I should. The

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Speaker 2: only people I donate blood to or Lab Corp. And

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Speaker 2: that's when they're testing me out. You know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a real aversion to needles and that's

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Speaker 4: no excuse. And maybe this will be the year that

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Speaker 4: I put on my big boy pants and do that,

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Speaker 4: because you know, Ben, I was looking around and I

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Speaker 4: found a very recent article on NBC News with some

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Speaker 4: quotes from the Red Cross saying that I didn't think

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Speaker 4: about this, but because of things like COVID that blood

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Speaker 4: donation has significantly dropped even further. And it was already

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Speaker 4: way down, and they said in this article that over

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Speaker 4: the past twenty years it has decreased by about forty percent,

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Speaker 4: so they they categorize it as catastrophic levels.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they had the first ever I think we mentioned

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Speaker 3: some of this in part one. But they had the

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Speaker 3: first ever like blood crisis, they declared it recently, and

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Speaker 3: it was due to the pandemic. It also we see

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Speaker 3: that during times of peace of these donations start to

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Speaker 3: peter down a little bit, because you know, if there's

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Speaker 3: a war going on, if there's a war effort, then

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Speaker 3: all the there's patriotism involved. Right now, you're doing your

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Speaker 3: part for the folks on the front line. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: for any number of reasons, this donation stuff, even when

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Speaker 3: it goes well, it is a continual churning process, and

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Speaker 3: the system is far from perfect. The industry has made

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Speaker 3: horrific fatal missteps in the past. We talked about Factor eight,

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Speaker 3: just the quick and dirty on that and the Factor

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Speaker 3: eight scandal. Prisoners were exploited to donate blood even when

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Speaker 3: they were known to have HIV and hepatitis, and this

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Speaker 3: affected innocent people around the world. To this day, we

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Speaker 3: don't know how many were impacted by these products that

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Speaker 3: all came from a single prison. All we know is

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Speaker 3: this is not the only example attained to products. Maybe,

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Speaker 3: before we move on a little bit further, we should

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Speaker 3: talk about another documentary we're mentioning this off air Bad Blood,

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Speaker 3: which is a great compliment to the other documentary Factor eight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can check it out. You can find it.

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Speaker 2: I think you've found it on Amazon right ben where

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Speaker 2: you can actually watch it right now. It's a documentary

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Speaker 2: that was at least produced or released on behalf of

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Speaker 2: the creator marilynd Ness and PBS in public broadcasting, and

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Speaker 2: came out twenty ten. It's like about an hour and

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Speaker 2: a half. It's a feature length documentary. It's about the

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Speaker 2: same thing. I would say, at least from everything I've

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Speaker 2: read about it. I have not watched it yet. According

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Speaker 2: to the synopsis, it's about the ten thousand people with

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Speaker 2: hemophilia that were using this Factor eight product who were

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Speaker 2: infected with either HIV, hepatitis C, or some combination.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so check that out to get another angle on

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Speaker 3: what's happening here. Neither of those films really mention what

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Speaker 3: we're going to explore today, because it turns out other

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Speaker 3: countries have plenty of bad blood scandals all their own.

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Speaker 3: We're going to pause for a word from our sponsors,

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Speaker 3: and then we'll head east. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 3: There is a disturbing, perhaps equally if not more disturbing

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Speaker 3: example of when the blood trade goes wrong from China,

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Speaker 3: and it involves something called plasma farese, which is our

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Speaker 3: unfortunate word for the day. It's the fancy term for

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Speaker 3: kind of plasma donation where long story short, they take

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Speaker 3: the plasma out of you, they separate the plasma for

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Speaker 3: the breast of your stuff that makes up your blood,

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Speaker 3: and then they put that junk back inside you. Why,

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Speaker 3: they heist one piece of your blood so that they

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Speaker 3: don't fully deplete your supplies.

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Speaker 2: So like the they okay, they take all the blood out,

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Speaker 2: they take your plasma, they spin it and they take

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Speaker 2: your plasma. Then they put your red blood cells, white

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Speaker 2: blood cells, and platelets all back in. Just shove them

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Speaker 2: back in you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well slowly with finesse.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: Is that is that standard operating procedure or is this

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Speaker 4: a bad move?

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Speaker 3: This is this is in theory, a really good way

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Speaker 3: to do it.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety five

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Speaker 3: in China, the Henan provincial government had this kind of

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Speaker 3: plasma campaign and they were paying people, mostly farmers, mostly

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Speaker 3: not very wealthy people in rural areas to participle. Yeah. Well, oh, God,

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Speaker 3: the life of people lived, the life of people in

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Speaker 3: these rural towns was often really challenging, and the market

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Speaker 3: was just becoming liberalized. So this blood plasma economy, that's

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Speaker 3: what they called the campaign. How nosparatu is that it

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Speaker 3: seemed like a good idea at first, so they called this.

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Speaker 3: The authorities called this thing the Blood Plasma Economy Initiative,

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Speaker 3: which sounds straight out of like count Orlock and nosparatu,

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Speaker 3: but it could have been. It was a win win

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Speaker 3: because biotech firms had a huge demand for massive supply

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Speaker 3: of blood. They had so much plasma and they had

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Speaker 3: so much cash to burn. This was also a great

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Speaker 3: program for middlemen, for blood brokers. There was a lot

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Speaker 3: of profit to be made.

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Speaker 2: So okay, so these biotech companies are paying every one

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Speaker 2: of these people to come in and donate their plasma.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're saying.

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Speaker 3: No, not that owing there. What's happening is it's a market,

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Speaker 3: a markup game like any other middleman game. The the

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Speaker 3: people in these rural areas are selling their plasma for

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Speaker 3: something like the equivalent of ten dollars and ninety cents

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Speaker 3: for six hundred grams. But then the blood stations the

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Speaker 3: plasma stations are turning around and they're selling that for

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Speaker 3: a significant markup to the biotech companies.

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Speaker 2: It's it sounds exactly like the factory thing, right, because

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Speaker 2: the prisoners were making like seven dollars per donation. But

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Speaker 2: there was it. Yeah, their money wasn't real. It was

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Speaker 2: for inside the system they're existing in, and then the

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Speaker 2: biotech companies are turning that around for what do we

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Speaker 2: say it was? It was something insane like one hundred

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Speaker 2: and something dollars per donation that they made.

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Speaker 4: And it was also like a government contract too, like

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Speaker 4: you know where the prison had kind of made this deal,

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Speaker 4: this sweetheart deal, and no one would cop to any

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Speaker 4: of the mouthfeasons ever along the way. And I don't

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Speaker 4: believe as far as where we left off in the

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Speaker 4: documentary that we discussed and you know the work of

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Speaker 4: Kelly Doudah, anyone has really taken the fall in any

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Speaker 4: kind of big, you know, significant, meaningful way.

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Speaker 2: But I get what you're saying, Ben, So if that,

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Speaker 2: if this structure is in place, you're saying, a middle

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Speaker 2: person that that can get between those two systems, right,

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Speaker 2: can make crazy amounts of money. Probably, how does.

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Speaker 4: One become said middle person, is this a licensed thing?

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Speaker 4: Is how do you get into the blood broker biz?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So, I mean if you just have blood.

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Speaker 3: Most of the folklore what happens is your master bites you,

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Speaker 3: but you don't get any of their blood, so you're

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Speaker 3: imbused with certain abilities.

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Speaker 4: It is vampiric, though the whole thing is very I

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Speaker 4: don't know a great example of taking advantage of a

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Speaker 4: system that doesn't have enough oversight, it would seem yeah,

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Speaker 4: and this was.

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Speaker 3: A long problem. So one misconception about this I think

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Speaker 3: that happened when it was initially reported in the West

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Speaker 3: is the blood plasma economy, which in the beginning was

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Speaker 3: hailed as this amazing thing, like this kind of thing

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Speaker 3: economists should study and health professionals should study. It does

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Speaker 3: not come out of the blue. It is indeed an

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Speaker 3: escalation an expansion of programs in China dating back to

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Speaker 3: the nineteen forties where they built out, you know, as

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Speaker 3: they had more and more people moving into these huge cities,

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Speaker 3: they had a growing demand for blood and they went

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Speaker 3: to the urban or they went from the urban to

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Speaker 3: the rural areas to supply it. So they've been doing

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Speaker 3: this for decades. The blood plasma economy, which was starting

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Speaker 3: in you know, nineteen ninety This was the rise of

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Speaker 3: the well they're called like the sueta or the bloodheads,

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Speaker 3: and they were already they were already established well enough

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Speaker 3: that they had a street name for people who made

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Speaker 3: a living like this.

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Speaker 2: And some of these are people who are donating or

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Speaker 2: the people who were collecting.

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Speaker 3: These were people who were doing both, so it could

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Speaker 3: get yeah, in general, refer to people in the industry

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Speaker 3: and these middlemen, you know, they might go into a

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Speaker 3: village and they might organize a group travel to a station, right,

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Speaker 3: and then they get a viig off that. So by

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Speaker 3: the time the BP blood plasm economy comes into play,

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Speaker 3: they're already thousands of public donation centers and commercial private

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Speaker 3: monetized centers, and those private were commercialized ones those are

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Speaker 3: owned by the blood brokers often right, So you know,

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Speaker 3: think about it, though in the nineteen nineties, you're in

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Speaker 3: a rural, agrarian part of trying, a payment for one

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Speaker 3: plasma donation could be more than you would make in

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Speaker 3: a month.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of parallels here with the

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Speaker 4: closed system of a prison. I mean not to say

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Speaker 4: that these farmers are you know, imprisoned per se, but

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Speaker 4: they are cut off from the rest of society, you know,

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Speaker 4: at least the more industrialized parts of the country, and

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Speaker 4: it would seem that they are being incentivized in a

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Speaker 4: way that's similar to the way the prisoners were being incentivized.

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Speaker 4: And it can cause some weird, shady math, I believe

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Speaker 4: somewhere down the line.

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Speaker 2: It feels like morals get bent often when there is

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Speaker 2: that kind of what monetary incentivization. I mean, look at capitalism. Hey,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, it's just on both.

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Speaker 4: Sides though, with the folks donating and with the folks

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Speaker 4: that maybe would be turning a blind eye because gosh,

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Speaker 4: it's such a sweetheart deal. We can't you know, pass

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Speaker 4: up any We need all the blood we can get.

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Speaker 2: Well, think about right now, if you could double your

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Speaker 2: monthly wage, like right now, if you can go donate

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Speaker 2: blood and double your monthly wage. You don't you don't

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Speaker 2: not do that right.

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Speaker 3: Right It's and it's also there are a couple of

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Speaker 3: other things that get twisted here. One of them is,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you are the authorities who are most

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Speaker 3: like on paper, the people required to keep this all

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Speaker 3: on the up and up, on the government side. Then

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Speaker 3: you also have a quota of the amount of blood

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Speaker 3: that you are expected to produce with your programs, and

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Speaker 3: a number of things you have to supply to hospitals.

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Speaker 3: So which do you prioritize more? You know, it's like

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Speaker 3: no child left behind? I mean, it isn't it.

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Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. Like, when you have this

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Speaker 4: mandate that is very unreasonable, you're going to do whatever

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Speaker 4: it takes to reach it. You know.

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Speaker 3: Boeing excuse me, another Boeing panel left work early? Guys,

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Speaker 3: Are you serious? I just passed.

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Speaker 4: John Oliver a bit and that they Wow, how are

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Speaker 4: they going to come back from that?

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Speaker 2: That is wild?

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Speaker 4: Because they're too big to fail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a too big to fail thing

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Speaker 3: in an industry that has a little bit of what

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Speaker 3: we call plot armor in the world of fandom in fiction.

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Speaker 4: Now, not to derail, but I did not quite realize

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Speaker 4: that those planes are the one with the door got

370
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Speaker 4: sucked down off was brand new. I did not realize

371
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Speaker 4: that these are like like like systematic design flaws and

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Speaker 4: or quality control flaws.

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Speaker 2: It's wild. Yeah, well, man, well, don't don't talk about

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Speaker 2: it and go to your car at your hotel. Just

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Speaker 2: don't go out to your car that's parked at your hotel.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking about this stuff, that's all.

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Speaker 3: And do make sure that if you are worried about that,

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Speaker 3: you spread the word well at advance and several times

379
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Speaker 3: on record, tell people that you will never take your

380
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 3: own life, and you know, let us know, let us

381
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 3: know what goes. There's another twist to this blood plasma

382
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Speaker 3: economy program. If you are paying people to donate plasma

383
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: and or blood, then you're removing any success for voluntary

384
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Speaker 3: donation because now people even and try to tried it

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00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 3: for a while, but even people who voluntary would have

386
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 3: voluntarily donated blood or plasma, they're saying, well, why the

387
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Speaker 3: hell would I do that now when I could just

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Speaker 3: go a town over and get paid to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no reason it.

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Speaker 3: So we see these economic incentives, if not part of

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Speaker 3: an active conspiracy, they do coalesce and they have a

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Speaker 3: cumulative effect. This shows us that, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 3: important to remember this blood economy thing, blood plasma economy,

394
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: it came as a result of earlier stuff. So wouldn't

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Speaker 3: that mean in theory, lessons learned from the earlier programs

396
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: would make it more of a win win, like the brokers,

397
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Speaker 3: the biotech still makes a lot of money and then

398
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Speaker 3: the people donating stay safe and the people getting the

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Speaker 3: donations stay safe.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah, like, how stable was that system because it seems

401
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 2: like you could build it to where everybody wins. So

402
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: it was right, everything was fine.

403
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's our show. Thanks for tuning in, fans. Yeah. No,

404
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: the the absolutely right. The theory could be fine, but

405
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: the problem stem from the way the plasma is extracted.

406
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Speaker 3: And I think it would be it's smart for us

407
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 3: to walk through what actually happens here. We were not

408
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: being facetious where we said, we're not being you know,

409
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 3: we're not doing a bit when we say they would

410
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: take stuff from you and then put your blood back

411
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Speaker 3: in you. Although I know it sounds like a four

412
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 3: year old trying to describe blood donation, but we're not

413
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: medical experts. This is true though. They did take stuff

414
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Speaker 3: and put it back in.

415
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So let's go through the steps. Step one,

416
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: insert a syringe into a person's body that goes into

417
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: their bloodstream and take out the blood. That's all the blood,

418
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Speaker 2: by the way, that's like the whole blood.

419
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, not all of their blood.

420
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Speaker 2: No, no, to just his whole blood. It's got all

421
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: the parts.

422
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Speaker 4: Step two we've talked about the spinning part of the process,

423
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 4: where in the plasma is separated from the blood in

424
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Speaker 4: a centrifuge. That is a machine that has then used

425
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Speaker 4: to extract that plasma. Step three, Oh.

426
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Speaker 3: Yes, step three. After the plasma is extracted, like like

427
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: you're saying, that takes a while for them to separate

428
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: this stuff, then that the same blood minus the plasma

429
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: is pumped back into the person's body. So it's a

430
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: more involved process. It sounds super weird. We think so too,

431
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: but it is completely safe so long as everybody's following

432
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: the SOPs of sterilization and safety. That did not happened.

433
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 4: Real quick aside, is this the same process that was

434
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: or is done over here putting the blood back in?

435
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: Or is this is there something unique about this particular process.

436
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 3: I'm not on factor eight and correct is here, folks

437
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: on factor eight. I think they were just taking the

438
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: plasma and separating it after they extracted it. I don't

439
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: know if they were putting it back in the bodies.

440
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: I think the main you know, for them, the problem

441
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: was they weren't vetting the donors very well, and then

442
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: they were also through negligence, they were spreading infections from

443
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: donors to other donors.

444
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 4: And we should also add that, similarly to you know

445
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 4: what what ended up happening with the factor eight. The

446
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 4: advances of biotechnologlogy have led to synthesized versions of this

447
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 4: that don't require the actual plasma. So that's a good

448
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 4: thing moving forward. But we're in the thick of this

449
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: part right now that very much aligns with the factor

450
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: eight story in terms of this was the only game

451
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: in town forgetting that plasma for creating these products. Plasma

452
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: itself is still needed, but in terms of using it

453
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: to make the hemophilia medications, and.

454
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: I'm stuck on the steps that we just described because

455
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: in my mind, if you're going to do this properly

456
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: and as you as you state had been, you know,

457
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: through sterilization like standards and those kinds of things. Let's

458
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 2: say let's say I donated blood, my blood gets taken out,

459
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: it gets spun in a centrifuge that only contains my blood.

460
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: That way, when the plasma is left and you've still

461
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: got the red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets

462
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: that stuff goes directly back into my body, right, because

463
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: it's my blood. Get it back in my body. Please.

464
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Thank you were saying that didn't happen.

465
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: We're saying that's what's supposed to happen. And in between

466
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: donors and donation instances, then the all the material would

467
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: be either cleaned or thrown away. Right, the needle gets

468
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: thrown out into a biohazard container, this interfuge gets sterilized,

469
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. That's what is supposed to happen. However,

470
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: as Kim Sang puts it right in for the Singtile Daily,

471
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: the blood plasma economy was such a booming business. It

472
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: was such like a bitcoin. All of a sudden, it

473
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: seemed like a huge It was like an oil boom really,

474
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: except for blood.

475
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: And you couldn't get the blood out fast enough right

476
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 2: and turn those donation tables basically.

477
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: And so the needles were being recycled, the bags that

478
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: held the blood were being recycled. Other instruments, can painters

479
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 3: that had like had direct contact with human blood, we're

480
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: getting recycled. And some people, some stations, we still don't

481
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 3: know how many mixed different blood blood from different donors

482
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 3: in the same centrifuge, creating massive possibilities for contamination because

483
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 3: the way it works is, yeah, it doesn't like let's say,

484
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 3: in the course of a day, let's say, you know,

485
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: anywhere from twelve to fifty people, their blood got mixed

486
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: in with this unknowingly, and then as things get reused

487
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: over the course of the day, if let's say the

488
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: third person or the fourteenth person who donates plasma has

489
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: hepatitis or they have HIV, then everyone in line after

490
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: them when that stuff is getting pumped back into them

491
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: now they've got it too.

492
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 4: And guys, I want to apologize. I think I made

493
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: sort of a dumb point earlier. At least this stuff

494
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: we're talking about here isn't the same as the Arkansas

495
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: story because they're not making this serum. They're not making

496
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 4: factor eight or a product to treat hemophilia. This is

497
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 4: exclusively plasma donation for people who need plasma transfusions or

498
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: for other medical procedures other than I guess it could

499
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: end up in pools of the stuff that is used

500
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 4: for the same kind of medication, right, yeah, but not

501
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 4: specifically for that.

502
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: It goes straight to the biotech companies to make any

503
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: number of things with it.

504
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, it could still you know, hurting people in

505
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: the same in a similar way.

506
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: Well, and as we're talking, yeah, we're talking about the

507
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: cross contamination here. That's for people, the donors who are

508
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: getting that blood pumped back into them that's now mixed

509
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: with all these other people. It's also for that plasma

510
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: that when it gets spun up, it's now spun up

511
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: with a bunch of other blood that who knows, you know,

512
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: what could be in that one sample that now contains,

513
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: as Ben said, the culmination of everybody who donated that

514
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: day before the thing got sterilized again.

515
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: I mean, it reminds me of It's like not cleaning

516
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: the soda machine.

517
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, don't think about it.

518
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:18,239
Speaker 3: I think its way way way in your body. And

519
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: you guys show too, right because you're glad you brought

520
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: that up. It's so ichy. But I instantly if I

521
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: ever have a fountain drink, I instantly go into that

522
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: paranoia if it tastes even slightly off. Oh yeah, I

523
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: like a fountain drink at a little different I know.

524
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: I was just I was at our our favorite uh

525
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: Popeyes Chicken in Atlanta, the place where you know, the

526
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: drive through person famously told me, what one time up there? Uh,

527
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: I was in there recently, was picking something up and

528
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: I asked for, you know, like a common mill thing,

529
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: and the lady behind the counter told me, you sure

530
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: the soda found has been a bit peppery. Oh, and

531
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: I did it was spicy? Yeah, I don't know, but

532
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I, okay, I appreciate it, thanks for

533
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: the you know, thanks for the tip there.

534
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: I have to believe that it was just like spicy,

535
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: a hit in a spicy way, and it shouldn't be

536
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: that way.

537
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 5: I like to think it was so Mu's first day

538
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 5: and they said, hold on, you put the spice mix

539
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 5: on the chicken, and they're like, oh, well, what's done

540
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 5: is done?

541
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: I see. I thought it was some kind of mold

542
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: that was really kicking things up a notch, you know.

543
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: I think that's what she meant.

544
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: It was spicy mold.

545
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: And so I do think this idea of like the

546
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: soda found thing is unfortunately really great comparison because it

547
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: got even worse as things escalated. To speed up the

548
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: amount of blood that were able to supply number of

549
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: units per day, right, some stations cut out crucial steps

550
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: of this process we've walked through, Like a donor might

551
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: just be given blood from previous donors the same blood type.

552
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: So in your example, Matt, it's not you getting you know,

553
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: getting that tasty Frederick vintage blood minus the plasma back.

554
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: You're getting some Randos. It might even be Jonathan Strickland's.

555
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: Oh I could only hope if I got a little

556
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: Strickland blood in me. Man, Just I feel like I

557
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: would get smarter the same.

558
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, i'd like the flowers for algrenon type situation. But

559
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 4: then you get progressively dumber.

560
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: Well, that first moment, like I fully understand what a

561
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: q LED is versus an OLED, and I can like

562
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: break all of that down.

563
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's what. Then we just have to keep

564
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: little vials of it around with us, I guess refrigerated

565
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: inside pockets.

566
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I start slurring his words. We got to give

567
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: him a dose of the juice, know, yest. Oh God,

568
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 4: Now we're being flippant here because this is so depressing

569
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: and heavy, because it's really the only the Gallo's humor

570
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 4: is the only way to deal with the fact that

571
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: this happened.

572
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: Jeez, Louise, we're whistling in the graveyard here, folks, for real,

573
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: because this did happen. People were giving blood from other donors.

574
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: They were not informed about this. You would it would

575
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: speed up the process. You wouldn't have to wait for

576
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: They would put your blood centrifuge to run and then

577
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: they would just check on what other centrifuge was done,

578
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: and if they had the same blood type as you,

579
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: they would put that blood inside you. So there were

580
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: also reports that people who tested positive for he B

581
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: hepatitis B were allowed to give blood and their blood

582
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: plasma was just putting a different pile. Basically, yeah, my

583
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: translation with Chinese is not that good. So they love

584
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: bigger a speech, but they yeah the hep B pile. Yeah,

585
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 3: which all means that without their knowledge and certainly without

586
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 3: their consent, these financially disadvantaged folks were forced into sharing

587
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 3: needles on a massive scale. What could go wrong? We'll

588
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: tell you after a word from our sponsor, and we

589
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: have returned.

590
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 4: Now.

591
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 3: China has a famously strict approach to the concerns of

592
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 3: its population, right and the country is very sensitive about

593
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: certain things, certain events like Tianeman and so on. But

594
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 3: this public outcry is different. The government can tamp down

595
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: on political protests pretty easily. But this is not necessarily political.

596
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: This is a national medical crisis. Now we don't know

597
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: how many people or country maybe carrying HIV, maybe unknowingly

598
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: transmitting it to their children, their partners, people they just

599
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 3: hang out with. So the government has to do something.

600
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: Because we're saying it started in nineteen ninety and then

601
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: this system rolled on for three, four, maybe even five years. Wow,

602
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: So I guess that's around the time when they realized

603
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: there are big problems.

604
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, that's right. And then in nineteen ninety five

605
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 4: they rolled out something else, which was some new policies

606
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 4: that changed some things around for hopefully the better. The

607
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: very least, the blood stations in Hennan were starting to

608
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 4: get shut down. And you know, another thing that the

609
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: Chinese government is known for is being a bit opaque,

610
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 4: let's just say, in terms of their acknowledgment of mistakes

611
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,959
Speaker 4: that were or were not made. So this is about

612
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 4: the best you're going to get, which was in nineteen

613
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: ninety six when the Ministry of Health issued a document

614
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 4: called Administrative Statutes of Blood Products that required plasma paresis

615
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 4: stations only collect plasma from specific areas, but ben I

616
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 4: wouldn't say they exactly admitted to wrongdoing, right, They just

617
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 4: just issued some new declarations that changed things around. And

618
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 4: it wasn't like we're doing this because we fed up. Right.

619
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're saying they're tightening the restrictions because around this

620
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 3: time there are these reports that start sporadically coming out

621
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: that say, hey, why does everybody in this village have

622
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: this hepatitis? In particular, why it would look right right

623
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 3: and the damage had been done. They were thinking, they

624
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: were hoping, whoeveryone's in charge at the time, that if

625
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: they had removed plasma donation stations from those rural areas,

626
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: the ones that seem troublesome, then the problem would solve.

627
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: It's in a way that could save face for everybody

628
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: and let people still make a lot of money off this.

629
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 3: But like you said, the horses left the bar and

630
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 3: the badger's out of the bag. Right now, the best

631
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 3: estimates guess that forty to sixty percent of the more

632
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 3: than three million people who donated plasma in this way

633
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: contracted AIDS afterwards, and that means that over one million people,

634
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 3: innocent people died as a direct result of participating in

635
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 3: this initiative. More will die on the way because these

636
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: infections were carried by them without their knowledge for so

637
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: very long. And it probably, you know, probably authorities knew

638
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: about this and just didn't inform them. I think they

639
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: had to I think they had to know.

640
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels so similar to the factor eight issue

641
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: because the money was flowing, and how do you You

642
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: can't really put a stop to it when it's floil.

643
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: You could, you should, but you it's kind of difficult

644
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: to do once it's that profitable.

645
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 4: And you know, I mean in high level officials practice

646
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: plausible deniability. But I swear, you know, I think I

647
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 4: mentioned you guys off my that I've never been more

648
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: suspicious of the Clintons than I was after discussing that story,

649
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: because there are so many indications that this information was

650
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 4: absolutely available at the highest levels.

651
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then how far does plausible the diability go.

652
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: I understand that, especially to high level political or corporate positions,

653
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: you might not be able to watch every falling sparrow.

654
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: I'm a busy right.

655
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 4: You know, time for all this. These are below my

656
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: pay grade.

657
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: But after a certain point, deniability is no longer plausible,

658
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: and you are at the very least, just terrible at.

659
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 4: Your job, you know what I mean, especially when it

660
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 4: directly impacts people, not even in your state or province

661
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 4: or country.

662
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 3: Right, It's just it's so disappointing, it's heartbreaking.

663
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 4: You know.

664
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: The investigations go on and over time what they find

665
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: is more and more villages are ravaged by AIDS and

666
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: hepatitis there. It's almost certainly, it's too generous to say

667
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 3: almost certainly it is definitely because of these plasma stations.

668
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: And just for a snapshot example, there was a small

669
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: area in Hannan in Kaijan County or Kaijan County. They

670
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: had three hundred or three and seventy villagers. Of those,

671
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 3: forty three percent tested positive for AIDS.

672
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: God, that's insane. That average is mind boggling.

673
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 3: It's terrifying, you know. And in the village of Winlu

674
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 3: when now sixty five percent of the residents tested had HIV.

675
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 3: And imagine your own hometown, you know, more than half

676
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: a neighbors had been infected by government and action and

677
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: corporate obscenity in this way, you know it Just what

678
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 3: hits me is if you've ever visited Rule China, you

679
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: know the people there are wonderful. Just like most people

680
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: at most places in the world, their lives are already

681
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: very difficult, very very difficult. And adding this, I mean,

682
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 3: I just keep thinking of like a kid having to

683
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: learn this.

684
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: Guys, I'm stuck on that that town that had sixty

685
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: five percent of the residents that contracted HIV. That's just

686
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: so devastating and insane, and especially given that this program

687
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 2: started in nineteen ninety correct, right, if you look back

688
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty five is when pretty

689
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: effective HIV blood tests existed. I mean, so at least

690
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: five years prior to the program even starting, you could

691
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: be screening people. If you're running this program, you could

692
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: be screening everybody who's donating to see, right, And that alone,

693
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: to me is just unconscienable. Yeah, just insane. And then

694
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: and then to let it run for so long, God, man,

695
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: ben I.

696
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: That's what haunts me. Man, That haunts me because bribery

697
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: explains at least part of it, right, which is tremendously

698
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: common in these systems. But again, I'm just I am

699
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: haunted by the image of a kid who already has

700
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 3: a really tough, challenging life and has all their own,

701
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: you know, they have their dreams, their aims, they want

702
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 3: to make their parents happy and all this other stuff,

703
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 3: and then they.

704
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 4: Learn that.

705
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: The natural progression of their life has been so has

706
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: been knocked off kilter.

707
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: And it's dude, can I ask something horrible? And I'm

708
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: going to ask this just because I want to talk

709
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: about it, and I don't know, and I don't mean

710
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: anything by this other than I'm curious, and it is

711
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: curious to me. I'm thinking about China's one child policy

712
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 2: that started in nineteen seventy nine in this you know program,

713
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: or about eleven years later. It does make me wonder,

714
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: if there's God, I get that would be the conspiracy. Right,

715
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: was this done purposefully to thin the population even more?

716
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 2: Because we know that's the purpose of the one child

717
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: policy is to slow down population growth? Right, this is

718
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: the right. This is the program in China that ran

719
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy nine to pretty recently, right like twenty

720
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: sixteen or something twenty fifteen.

721
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 3: Applying prime to the applying to the ha and ethnicity,

722
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: which is oh really the mainstream ethnicity. So like the

723
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 3: thing about the one child policy is yet it had

724
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 3: terrible ramification in terms of femicide and things like that.

725
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: The femicide being discovering the biological sex of a child

726
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: in vitro and then having it awarded as a result

727
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: because you would want a male. Yeah, so there was

728
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 3: this huge distortion between between like male and female birth

729
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: rates or survival rates, if we really want to be

730
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: honest about it. In terms of this, I find that

731
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,959
Speaker 3: a fascinating and intriguing branch of speculation. The only issue

732
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 3: is there faster, more efficient ways to do it that

733
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 3: could still give you that plausible deniability.

734
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I completely agree, I think, and this

735
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: is describing evil. I would say to a place where

736
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: maybe it shouldn't be it shouldn't be placed there, And

737
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: it's just me having the thought experiment. But oh yeah,

738
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: if you're targeting rural farmers, and you know the the

739
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: groups that are profiting from this are not rural farmers

740
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: by any stretch, right, If you give the families something

741
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: like HIV or AIDS, not only are you infecting anyone

742
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: else in that you know, in that household of down

743
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: the line.

744
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: If the child done purposefuly, this would be a form

745
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 4: of controlled genocide.

746
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying this is.

747
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 4: The mind you could jump there. I will just say

748
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 4: that if if you're interested in the one Child policy

749
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 4: stuff and how that really did have horrible ramifications in

750
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 4: and of itself. There's a documentary called One Child Nation

751
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 4: that came out in twenty nineteen through PBS's Independent Lens program,

752
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 4: which is always next level good that I would highly

753
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 4: recommend checking out.

754
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 3: And those the results of the One Child Policy itself

755
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 3: are going to continue well into your lifetime as you

756
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: listen to this Evening show, because it lasted from set

757
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: seventy nine to twenty fifteen. And it's kind of like

758
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 3: one Child Policy is kind of like experiments with cloud seating, right,

759
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: You're affecting a system that you don't fully control in

760
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 3: ways you don't fully understand. It's it's tough, man, it's

761
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 3: tough out there, and we'd love to hear your personal

762
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 3: experience with it. If you've got any, let us know.

763
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 3: So we have a terrible situation. We have places where

764
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 3: there are pluralities of people infected with HIV, with hepatitis,

765
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 3: and it's just because of the nature of how these

766
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: things spread. And you know you mentioned NOL earlier, the

767
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: idea of an admission of guilts.

768
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: We did get one, didn't we. I was surprised to

769
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 4: see that.

770
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, two thousand and four.

771
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, the government did publicly admit, which is in a

772
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 4: rare show of Again, I'm not trying to dogpile in

773
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: the Chinese government, but they do have a bit of

774
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 4: a history of opice.

775
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: Let's just say, and we're not we're not, obviously too.

776
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 3: I'm glad of bringing this up. We're not cenophobes at all.

777
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 4: No, we.

778
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: Don't, right, We're not using this as like red meat

779
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: for something.

780
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 4: This is not in the least and I will actually

781
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 4: something that I said off Mike, I'm just going to

782
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 4: say the kind of abbreviated version of it. I'm surprised

783
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 4: that certain more xenophobic types haven't used this for fodder

784
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 4: for further xenophobia, for trying to convert people to more

785
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 4: xenophobic ways of thinking, because this could be weaponized in

786
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 4: a way to be like, see see what they did.

787
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 4: You know, these horrible people, this horrible government. I'm just

788
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 4: surprised that hadn't happened, and that we hadn't really heard

789
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 4: that much about this outside of this investigation. But the

790
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 4: government of trying to did publicly admit that by its estimation,

791
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 4: at least twenty four percent of all HIV, all HIV

792
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 4: cases in China came directly from what we've been talking

793
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 4: about today, from these this dirty plasma business.

794
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you would think, just like the case

795
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 3: of the blood plasma Economy program, you would think the

796
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: lessons learned from the past may have been informing the

797
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 3: events of the future and the present. Well, we thought

798
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 3: so too, and we were incorrect. So we're right there

799
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 3: with you. Fast forward to twenty nineteen, a similar thing

800
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: happens again, this time in Shanghai. A specific company, a

801
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 3: pharma company named Shanghai sin Keing Medicine Company. They gotten

802
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: hot water on suspicion that they sold twelve thousand units

803
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: of blood plasma product contaminated with HIV. So this is

804
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: still a possibility. It still happens, and hopefully the authorities

805
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 3: are just a little faster about it now or holding

806
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 3: people accountable. Right, And then that came on the heels

807
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: of like the month before then, there was this panic

808
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 3: that the government gave more than one hundred kids expired

809
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: polio vaccines. A few months before that, hundreds of thousands

810
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: of kids got faulty diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough vaccines.

811
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting because we just talked Sorry, not interesting,

812
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 4: it's horrifying. But we had talked about how China was

813
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 4: one of the very few places where polio is still

814
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 4: a thing, right.

815
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, Pakistan and Afghanistan have the same. Yeah, and

816
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 3: it still occurs in China. Sure. Yeah, it's it's tough.

817
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: And you know, the question there is maybe more like

818
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: just negligence and trying to and not downplaying this at all, but.

819
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: It's a very large view.

820
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, have you you guys have had this

821
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 3: situation in your own home where you know, you're checking

822
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 3: on maybe it's like a dairy thing or a vegetable

823
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 3: in your fridge, and you're like, is this on the

824
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 3: line of expiring? How far over is it?

825
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 4: You know, it's sell By, it's fine, sell By.

826
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 3: So maybe that's what they did, you know. And so

827
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 3: members of the media for this twenty nineteen event with

828
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 3: the tainted blood products, members of the Chinese media spoke

829
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 3: up and said, hey, this there's going to be a

830
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 3: cover up pretty soon. They'll say, injecting this is good

831
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: for your health. Don't panic. And that appears to be

832
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 3: part of what happens. So we have to follow up

833
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 3: on the twenty nineteen story to learn more as the

834
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: investigations continue. But one thing's for sure. Like we said

835
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: at the top, when the money gets too tempting, the

836
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: demand gets too high, people will cut quarters. They will

837
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: attempt to bleed every last cent from a broken system

838
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 3: before it collapses. That, I argue is the stuff they

839
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Also, you should donate blood

840
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 3: please if you can. You are saving lives.

841
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more.

842
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 4: All of this stuff that we've discussed has really got

843
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 4: me the I really am. I can barely keep from

844
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 4: passing out when I get blood taken for you know,

845
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 4: medical purposes. But I'm gonna have to steal myself and

846
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 4: uh and and do that because I didn't realize how

847
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 4: how desperate the situation was in terms of the blood supply,

848
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 4: you know, in the United States.

849
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: But is there is there a way to, like, I

850
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: don't know, train yourself to not be freaked out by

851
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: needles anymore.

852
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 4: It would have to be some sort of self hypnosis

853
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 4: or some like like quitting smoking or getting over fear

854
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 4: of heights or something. I don't know how you would

855
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 4: do that mindfulness transcendental meditation.

856
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 3: There's a way, yeah, different avenues to it if you

857
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 3: want to disassociation of things, et cetera.

858
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just remember I used to be really freaked

859
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: out by it for a long time and something changed

860
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 2: and I didn't do it actively, but I definitely just started.

861
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 3: Were you getting on a medical test because will change it?

862
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 4: Yeah?

863
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's when I started doing like physicals, right, So,

864
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: like as you get older, it's recommended if you have

865
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 2: a general practitioner, like a doctor that you go see regularly,

866
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,359
Speaker 2: that you get blood drawn basically at least once a year.

867
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: I think when that started happening, it just changed. Like

868
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: I look at the needle. I used to have to

869
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: look away and like you do all that stuff, but

870
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: now I just look at it. I'm like, wow, look

871
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: at that.

872
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: Go.

873
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Speaker 4: I think I've mentioned that I have an underactive thyroid,

874
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 4: so I have to give blood a lot, like to

875
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 4: check on the numbers, and it's more than just a

876
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 4: physical and I still can't look at it, and it

877
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 4: still freaks me out just as much every single time.

878
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 4: So I think some people are the different. Some people

879
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 4: grow out of it. I guess I used to hate

880
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 4: tomatoes now, but needles still freak me out big time.

881
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 3: You can contact. The best way to get involved going

882
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 3: to donate blood is again because there's regional variation and

883
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 3: demand and type of stuff they're looking for. Your best

884
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 3: next steps are to contact the local blood banks in

885
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: your area. It's also so possible if you want some

886
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 3: extra credit. It's also possible to organize a blood drive.

887
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 3: You know, if you have, if you like work at

888
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: a big company or something, they'll probably support you in

889
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 3: doing this, just like if you were to organize a

890
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 3: clothing drive or a book drive.

891
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 2: Didn't we do that with when we were owned by Discovery?

892
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: I feel like I remember doing that in the old

893
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: I did.

894
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: I did not participate. I'm just gonna be absolutely clear.

895
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 3: I did not trust them.

896
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: Oh I have problem with.

897
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 3: Red Cross, But I was like, nice, try because this

898
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 3: was still before you know, the widespread rollout of genetic testing,

899
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: and they.

900
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 2: Were just trying to find the next honey boo boo,

901
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: and they were gonna get all the blood.

902
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 3: And getting right to your blood. Yeah. So I was

903
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: somewhat prescient in that, I guess. But anyway, Uh, we

904
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 3: would love to hear from you, fellow conspiracy realists, especially

905
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 3: if you are involved or employed in something that touches

906
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 3: upon the blood industry. One question about do certain countries,

907
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 3: companies or products are they Are there certain countries, companies

908
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 3: or products that you and your colleagues consider no goes?

909
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And if so, why, what

910
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: do more people need to know about bad blood? And

911
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 3: what have your experience has been again with stuff like

912
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 3: the one child policy, traveling in China, interacting with the

913
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 3: Chinese government. This is stuff that maybe that may be

914
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 3: really helpful to us in the future. So please let

915
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 3: us know what's on your mind. We try to be

916
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 3: easy to find online. Oh oh my god, donate your

917
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: ideas to us.

918
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: That's what it was.

919
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 4: We drink your milkshake of ideas. You can provide us

920
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 4: said ideas on the usual social media channels of note,

921
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 4: we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. On Facebook where we also

922
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 4: have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy. On

923
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 4: x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube where we roll out delightful,

924
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 4: we think and we hope you video content every single week.

925
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 4: On Instagram and TikTok, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

926
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: Hey do you like calling people? Why not call us

927
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 2: one eight three three st d WYTK. That's our number.

928
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 2: When you call in, you'll hear our voicemail system. You'll

929
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: hear a familiar voice and a little music, and then

930
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: just say whatever you'd want. Just make sure to give

931
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

932
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: can use your name and message on the air. If

933
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: you got more to say they could fit in that message,

934
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 2: why not instead shoot us a good old fashioned email.

935
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

936
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

937
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

938
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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.