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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

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Speaker 2: She's beautiful, she is accomplished, she is wealthy, she runs

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Speaker 2: a huge ranch, and she's missing or is she dead?

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at Crime Stories and on series

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Speaker 2: XM one eleven.

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: A wealthy widow, gorgeous, stunning, vibrant. Her name is Dia Abrams.

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Speaker 2: Something is very wrong with this scenario.

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Speaker 4: Listen Lydia Conchello Abrams, Dia. She and her sister grew

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Speaker 4: up in San Diego, California. Dia met and Mary Clymy Abrams,

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Speaker 4: a wealthy La Jolla, California real estate developer. They had

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Speaker 4: two children, Clinton and Chris Sara. After more than thirty

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Speaker 4: years of marriage, Clyt Abrams passed away after a long illness,

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Speaker 4: and Dia stepped up to run the one hundred and

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Speaker 4: sixteen acre family ranch.

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Speaker 2: Over one hundred acre ranch and she has no problem

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Speaker 2: running it. So how does this woman, I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you look at her, beautiful, smart runs the ranch all

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Speaker 2: by herself, how does she somehow vanish off the face

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Speaker 2: of the earth. Last saying on a neighbor's door cam,

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Speaker 2: you know the ring door camp.

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Speaker 3: Well things changed listen.

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Speaker 5: According to her son, Dia Abrams is sweet, kind and

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Speaker 5: a caring person. She loves animals, especially her dog Ruby,

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Speaker 5: miniature donkeys and a miniature pony which live at the ranch.

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Speaker 5: Clinton Abrams says animals in nature are his mother's two

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Speaker 5: favorite interests.

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Speaker 4: Dia he inherits some of her late husband's properties, as

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Speaker 4: well as a marital trust, and nominates her daughter as trustee.

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Speaker 4: Her children will be the beneficiaries in the event of

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Speaker 4: DA's death. After years as a widow, Abrams meets Keith

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Speaker 4: Harper on a dating website. According to The Mercury News,

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Speaker 4: Harper is a retired parole agent from the Utah Department

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Speaker 4: of Corrections. The two headed off, and six months later

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Speaker 4: Harper moves in with Dia at the ranch. According to Harper,

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Speaker 4: he worked and upgraded the Abrams property, building dams, bridges, fences,

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Speaker 4: and helping care for animals. Harper also claims to be

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Speaker 4: Abram's fiance.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right, there is there a fox in the henhouse

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Speaker 2: with me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know right now. But first I'm going straight

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Speaker 2: out to a correspondent for the Idlewild Town Crier newspaper,

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Speaker 2: David Jerome, David, thank you for being with us. How

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Speaker 2: much money are we talking about that, Dia? I think

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Speaker 2: she has this huge ranch. I'm not talking about a

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Speaker 2: little farm like my grandparents had where we would go

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Speaker 2: out and feed the chickens and take care of all

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Speaker 2: the animals. This is a big operation. What is it

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Speaker 2: like two hours from San Diego?

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Speaker 6: About more than two How much.

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Speaker 3: Money are we talking about? How big is the ranch? Exactly?

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Speaker 6: You said one hundred and sixteen acres? There's five houses,

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Speaker 6: five buildings on the ranch.

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Speaker 2: Smaller buildings also, so five houses or buildings plus other buildings.

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Speaker 3: What exactly do you mean?

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Speaker 6: Well, they were running an airbnb at don't we know

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Speaker 6: how many of the buildings are dwell? Abo?

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm writing that down,

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Speaker 2: David Jerome with me, Guys, did you say not only

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Speaker 2: is her home there, but there's an airbnb there.

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Speaker 6: As Da began looking for ways to make money, she

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Speaker 6: had friends help her rent out units on the property

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Speaker 6: as an airbnb, and Keith attempted to do her supposed

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Speaker 6: fiance continued to do that after her disappearance.

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Speaker 3: So I'm still not getting this. It's not you, it's me.

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Speaker 2: How many structures are on the one hundred plus acre rant.

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Speaker 6: I've heard five mentioned. I mean those would be a

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Speaker 6: buildings you can live, and they're probably also barns and

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Speaker 6: garages and things like that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right.

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Speaker 2: The ranch off Apple Canyon Road in Mountain Center is

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Speaker 2: apparently gorgeous. Dia has blonde hair. She's about five to four.

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Speaker 2: She's last seen on a Saturday two PM wearing jeans,

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Speaker 2: a yellow shirt, and a black multicolored windbreaker. She was

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Speaker 2: heading to the Garner Valley area. However, her vehicle, handbag, keys,

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Speaker 2: and cell phone were all still at her home.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's a conundrum right there. But let's keep going.

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Speaker 3: Let's see what else we can find out.

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Speaker 2: Also, I heard you say, David Jerome, her supposed fiance

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Speaker 2: very quickly. Was there ever an engagement party, an announcement

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Speaker 2: in the paper? Was there a date set for the wedding?

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Speaker 2: Whose word do I have they were engaged other than his?

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Speaker 7: Is no one.

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Speaker 6: Her friends all referred to him as a boyfriend and

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Speaker 6: had not heard of this engagement.

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Speaker 2: That's curious, David Jerome, That's highly curious.

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Speaker 3: Was there an engagement ring.

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Speaker 6: Keith alleges there was, but can't remember where you got

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Speaker 6: it from. Can't remember where you bought it from.

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Speaker 2: Guys were talking about Keith a ranch hand. His name

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Speaker 2: was Keith Harper and he had been working on the

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Speaker 2: ranch and now says he was her fiance and she's missing.

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Speaker 3: That's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Speaker 2: But I want to talk about not knowing where you

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Speaker 2: get an engagement ring.

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Speaker 3: I got a problem with that. Let me go.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst. You can

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Speaker 2: find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. You have a

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Speaker 2: lot of your practice on Rodeo drive FYI, the rest

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Speaker 2: of us say rodeo. But go ahead, doctor Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 2: I think I've told you this. My grandmother Lucy gave

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Speaker 2: me in her life her engagement ring.

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Speaker 3: I know I can tell you right now.

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Speaker 2: Exactly where she got it and when she got it,

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Speaker 2: when my grandfather gave it to her, And I can

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Speaker 2: tell you where it is right now my wedding ban.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I didn't have one or.

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Speaker 2: An engagement ring for a really long time because I

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Speaker 2: used my grandmother's as mine one day I was about

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Speaker 2: to give birth. David and I were walking down the

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Speaker 2: street on Third Avenue, by the Way in New York,

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Speaker 2: and there was a little jewelry store. He said, just

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Speaker 2: let's look in there for a ring, and we had

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Speaker 2: already looked everywhere.

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Speaker 3: I didn't like anything.

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Speaker 2: I wanted something flexible, you know, that wasn't hard set.

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Speaker 2: And we walked you. I told the lady what I

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Speaker 2: was looking for. She owned the little store. She held

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Speaker 2: up her hand, Bethany, and she said, like this, and

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Speaker 2: she took it off and it was FLEXI like it squishes,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, yes, where did you get that? And

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Speaker 2: she said from Italy and I can get you one.

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Speaker 2: And we waited like six months and we got it.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you, how do you not know where

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Speaker 2: your engagement ring comes from?

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Speaker 8: And Nancy, I know where mine came from. It came

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Speaker 8: from my husband's grandmother. And I know where they got

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Speaker 8: the stone. I know the color of the stone. I

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Speaker 8: know it's slightly off color because the grandfather was color blind.

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Speaker 8: Because we know the stories around the stones, the rings,

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Speaker 8: the things that are such an important part of marriage

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Speaker 8: and commitment. But Althia, I have a couple other problems

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Speaker 8: with this story. I just stood out as you and

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Speaker 8: the reporter were talking when Harper says that he made

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Speaker 8: improvements to the property. That's not how somebody talks when

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Speaker 8: they're in a cohesive relationship. They say we made improvements

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Speaker 8: to the property.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even catch that, Bethany.

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Speaker 2: I thought I've been hanging around with you long enough

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Speaker 2: that I would catch everything.

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Speaker 3: I did not catch that.

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Speaker 6: But you're right also.

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Speaker 8: The fact that she's a wealthy woman, but they being

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Speaker 8: putting one of the proper properties up as an Airbnb.

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Speaker 8: That strewd out to me too, because it tells me

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Speaker 8: bakes the question. Is Harper trying to monetize his relationship

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Speaker 8: with kah Well, wait.

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Speaker 3: A minute, Wait a minute, hold on, right there, there's

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Speaker 3: another thing.

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Speaker 2: David Jerome joining me, correspondent with the Idlewild Town Crier.

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Speaker 3: David, I also.

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Speaker 2: Know that it's been said she loved adventure. So if

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Speaker 2: they opened, use a couple of those buildings on our property.

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Speaker 2: And remember all this tame from her original husband, and

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Speaker 2: he passed away. He had a long illness and she

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Speaker 2: got the bult a lot of the estate. Anyway, if

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Speaker 2: she loved adventure, David Jerome. She might have thought it

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Speaker 2: was an adventure to start an airbnb. I mean that

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Speaker 2: starting had been breakfast. That's a lot of people's dreams.

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Speaker 6: Okay, there's a whole other side of this, which is

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Speaker 6: that there's the question of the mayoral estate and the

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Speaker 6: mayoral trust and the family trust. Clem her usband was

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Speaker 6: too clever by half and had put in some clauses

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Speaker 6: having to do with the estate tax. That meant that

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Speaker 6: in the end, when he died, nothing went into the

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Speaker 6: marital trust, and Dia had to file papers against Clinton

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Speaker 6: and Chrissara to try to get that funded. So she

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Speaker 6: was house rich and cash poor. She did not have

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Speaker 6: the she was used to getting maybe fifteen thousand a

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Speaker 6: month to pay taxes, insurance, mortgage expenses, everything and now

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Speaker 6: and again, I can't confirm that she was cut off

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Speaker 6: without a penny, but she was cut off.

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Speaker 3: So she got property, right.

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Speaker 6: Right, She has real estate.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So she gets real estate and the children get money.

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Speaker 3: Okay, got it, I got it. House rich she had.

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Speaker 6: She had a few properties that were put in her name.

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Speaker 6: The properties in Garner Valley were put in her names,

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Speaker 6: and she put them in her own trust. But everything

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Speaker 6: else was with the family. The intention of Clem's will

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Speaker 6: and trusts was that the money up to the limit

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Speaker 6: of the estate tax would go into a family trust

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Speaker 6: and the remainder go TODA and the state trucks was repealed.

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Speaker 6: She would get six million, corrected for inflation. What he

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Speaker 6: didn't foresee was that the estate tax would be doubled

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Speaker 6: to over ten million dollars, and all the money went

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Speaker 6: into the family trust and nothing into the marital trust.

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Speaker 6: And she was filing and fighting her family trying to

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Speaker 6: get funding.

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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Another thing I'm noticing, David Jerome is that she met

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Speaker 2: Keith Harper on a website.

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Speaker 6: That's what people say, Yes, okay.

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Speaker 3: What is farmers Only? I've actually never heard of that website.

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Speaker 2: Of course, by the time I find out about a

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Speaker 2: dating website, somebody's missing or dead.

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Speaker 3: But what is farmers Did.

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Speaker 2: You hear that, Sidney? What what's farmers only?

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Speaker 6: It's a great way to meet ladies who own land.

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Speaker 2: Well, you just cut the chase right there, A great

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Speaker 2: way to meet ladies that have land. Dan Goldsmith with

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Speaker 2: me joining us from this jurisdiction in California, Private I

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Speaker 2: owner of Goldsmith Investigations, also former law enforcement and senior

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Speaker 2: state investigator.

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Speaker 3: I don't like the sound of that, although it.

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Speaker 2: May be entirely true, Dan Goldsmith that farmers only is

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Speaker 2: a great way to meet ladies with land.

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Speaker 7: Well, apparently it's one way to do it. But he

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Speaker 7: took advantage of it because it looked like he moved

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Speaker 7: in fairly, fairly quickly after meeting with her.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do we know David Jerome Weather he was

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Speaker 2: a farmer? Did he have land as well?

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Speaker 6: Yes, he apparently had eighty five acres in Nadville, Arizona,

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Speaker 6: which is near the Grand Wash Cliffs. He owns the

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Speaker 6: storage business in New Mexico. His family apparently still runs

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Speaker 6: his what was called Outlaw Tours in Durango and has

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Speaker 6: probably changed its name since then.

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Speaker 2: Outlaw Tours in Durango. Okay, so he's bringing something to

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Speaker 2: the table. But let's go beyond this. This is a

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Speaker 2: wealthy widow, gorgeous accomplished.

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Speaker 3: Running a ranch. She meets up with him on.

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Speaker 2: A website shortly after she goes missing, but not before

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Speaker 2: she names him the ranch hand.

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Speaker 3: As trustee of her estate.

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Speaker 5: Listen after her new romance begins, Abram amends her trust

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Speaker 5: and instead names Keith Harper, the manager of her ranch,

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Speaker 5: and Diana Fetter, a neighbor and friend, as trustees of

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Speaker 5: her estate. Harper is named beneficiary in the event of

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Speaker 5: her death. On June sixth, twenty twenty, Dia Abrams has

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Speaker 5: seen at her ranch on doorbell cam footage that morning

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Speaker 5: delivering cinnamon rolls to a neighbor. According to Keith Harper,

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Speaker 5: he and Dia have lunch around two thirty PM. Before

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Speaker 5: he leaves to work around the property. Abrams reportedly goes

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Speaker 5: to tend to her horses at another property she owns

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Speaker 5: in Garner Valley.

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Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Athny Marshall, I hope you tell your clients,

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Speaker 2: especially your lady clients, don't mix sex with business.

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Speaker 3: It's not a good outcome.

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Speaker 2: Don't do it. Why do you when you fall in love, Yes,

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Speaker 2: certainly have to. You have to hand over all your

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Speaker 2: money and your titles to property, everything over to the boyfriend.

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Speaker 8: Why you know, Nancy, I have seen this time and

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Speaker 8: time again, women who are competent, bright, they've built their

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Speaker 8: own estates, they have money, they really have success in life,

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Speaker 8: and then they meet a man and all of a

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Speaker 8: sudden they feel that the man has greater expertise than

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Speaker 8: they do. I see this with celebrities. I have some

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Speaker 8: really really famous celebrities in my practice who they became

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Speaker 8: rich and famous all on their own. They act on

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Speaker 8: a world stage, they seeing on a world stage. They

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Speaker 8: got a boyfriend, maybe a PA production assistant somewhere, and

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Speaker 8: all of a sudden, that PA becomes the experts managing

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Speaker 8: their life, running their life, and they turn over the

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Speaker 8: keys to the kingdom. And it's really really a sad problem,

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Speaker 8: and it really, you know, it makes me feel that

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Speaker 8: Dia on some level was desperate and vulnerable because of

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Speaker 8: what was happening with the estate ante.

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Speaker 3: Why do you say desperate? Maybe she was just lonely.

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Speaker 2: This woman does not seem desperate to me. Hold on,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall. Joining me right now is Brenda Geiger, Lawyer,

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Speaker 2: Managing attorney for the Geiger Law Office, a trust in

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Speaker 2: the States law firm, and author of Secrets of Great

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Speaker 2: Estate Planning and author of estate Planning Secrets of the Affluent.

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Speaker 2: You can find Brenda at Geiger Lawoffice dot com. And

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Speaker 2: there's a lot more about Brenda Geiger.

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Speaker 3: All good.

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Speaker 2: Brenda Geiger jump in do you see this happen a lot.

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Speaker 2: You've got a beautiful woman, a widow, all alone, and

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Speaker 2: suddenly I'm a man enters her life and she wants

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Speaker 2: to sign over the farm.

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Speaker 3: Literally, in this case, she signs over the farm.

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Speaker 9: Yes, it's not totally common, but I have seen things

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Speaker 9: like this before where somebody has used affection or intimidation

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Speaker 9: or coersion to unduly influence somebody. And it sounds like

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Speaker 9: in this case. I don't know if this is where

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Speaker 9: you're going, but there was an action filed by her

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Speaker 9: children for an undue influenced claim that happened I think

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Speaker 9: in twenty twenty one, and then there are some court

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Speaker 9: documents in twenty twenty three about a settlement of settling

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Speaker 9: that estate instead of at all going to him, it

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Speaker 9: would go fifty to fifty. If she's determined to be deceased,

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Speaker 9: you know, fifty percent of the children, fifty percent to

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Speaker 9: him to Harper.

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Speaker 2: This is all about money. I don't like the smell

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Speaker 2: of it one bit. Davy Jerome joining us Idle Wild

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Speaker 2: Town Crier. Is it true that Keith Harper, the ranch

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Speaker 2: hand slash fiance, is a registered sex offender?

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Speaker 6: Apparently so Colorado.

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Speaker 3: Well, I need to know is he or is he not?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Not apparently? I want to know do I have the

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Speaker 2: right person? Is the right dob? Is it the right jurisdiction?

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Speaker 2: So the answer then is yes, Yeah, he's a registered

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Speaker 2: sex offender in.

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Speaker 6: Colorado and he has to apparently he has to register

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Speaker 6: in California too.

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Speaker 3: When is that going to happen?

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Speaker 6: He has, but he's also keeps on appealing that it's

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Speaker 6: close to it'll expire in twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's just twenty twenty three, So appealing at what? Why?

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Speaker 3: For what reason?

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Speaker 6: He keeps on thinking that if he can appeal it,

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Speaker 6: he can end the probation or end the registration. But

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Speaker 6: it hasn't worked.

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Speaker 2: He's a sex offender on the registry because he groped

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Speaker 2: to women.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 3: What do we know about those instances.

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Speaker 6: That he was running tours his outlaw tour business and

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Speaker 6: Colorado Durango. It was a snowmobile tour. There were three

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Speaker 6: women that say that he groped them. He says he

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Speaker 6: was trying to prevent an eminent accident that Jerry believed

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Speaker 6: believed them and he could have gotten probation, But he

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Speaker 6: argued with the judge and didn't like probation, so he

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Speaker 6: ended up thaying nine months behind bars.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment. He could have gotten probation,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't want probation.

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Speaker 3: Did you just say that.

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Speaker 6: Yes, she insisted on his innocence and that he didn't

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Speaker 6: want probation. In the judge satisfied him by throwing him

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Speaker 6: in the pokey for nine months.

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Speaker 2: Two counts of unlawful sex conduct, which is a misdemeanor.

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Speaker 3: I've got that.

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Speaker 2: He served one year in jail and had to register

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Speaker 2: as a sex offender.

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Speaker 6: Yes, he probably served nine months of the one year.

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Speaker 2: Former boyfriend of Dia Abrams, who has gone missing, has

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Speaker 2: to continue to register as a sex offender. He represented

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Speaker 2: himself in court in the last months in San Juan County, Colorado.

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Speaker 2: That's where he was convicted. Now this was ten years

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Speaker 2: ago and since that time, Davy Jerome, has he had

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Speaker 2: any other infraction.

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Speaker 3: Of the law.

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Speaker 6: I don't think so, beyond a speeding ticket or something.

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Speaker 7: He did one what I'm sorry, it's Dan GOLLSLM. He

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Speaker 7: did have a conviction of a domestic violence in Colorado.

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Speaker 3: Really, that's the one I didn't know about.

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Speaker 7: When was that Dan twenty ten, I believe.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so his criminal past goes way back. Some would

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Speaker 2: argue because of the time lapse that it is irrelevant.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I feel that way. Did you say,

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Speaker 2: Davy Jerome, that a jury convicted.

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Speaker 6: Him, Yes, although Carper said it was a jury of

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Speaker 6: five people and the judge was a CHP officer. But

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Speaker 6: that's his story. But yes, the jury convicted him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Let's get to the day that Dia disappears. Take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Dave Matt Keith.

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Speaker 4: Harper says he was mowing five hours before returning to

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Speaker 4: the house around seven thirty pm. Abram's four f three

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Speaker 4: to fifty pickups parked outside, but Harper cannot find Abrams.

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Speaker 4: Harper says he called her phone heard it ringing upstairs.

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Speaker 4: It was plugged into a charger next to a nightstand.

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Speaker 4: Abrams purs and keys are also there. Harper says he

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Speaker 4: called a California Highway Patrol officer who lives nearby. The officer,

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Speaker 4: according to Harper, told of them law enforcement would not

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Speaker 4: take any action until Abrams had been missing for three days.

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Speaker 4: Harper began calling Abram's friends and neighbors, a community search

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Speaker 4: party has formed. Dozens of locals scoured the ranch and

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Speaker 4: surrounding mountain area on foot, horseback, and all trained vehicles.

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Speaker 4: Harper is seen riding an ATV around the property.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Mike Hetzel is joining US president founder Peace River

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Speaker 2: K nine Search and Rescue. You can find him at

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Speaker 2: PSAR dot org. Mike Hatzel, what, We've seen a lot

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Speaker 2: of cases where women go missing. But from what I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing right here, and I don't like a lot of

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Speaker 2: what I've heard about Keith Harper.

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Speaker 3: But he immediately calls a friend.

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Speaker 2: We know she's alive that morning because she's caught on video.

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Speaker 2: One of her neighbors is fighting cancer and she takes

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Speaker 2: homemade semon rolls to the neighbor and she is on

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Speaker 2: ring cam. So we know that his story about that

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Speaker 2: is true. He is the one that volunteers that they

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Speaker 2: have lunch together and that that was around I think

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Speaker 2: between twelve thirty and two thirty. He is the last

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Speaker 2: one that says he saw her. But Mike Hatzel, when

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Speaker 2: women go missing, I'm very very accustomed to boyfriends, lovers,

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Speaker 2: husband's ex husbands not calling the police till days pass,

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Speaker 2: not taking part in the search, not calling friends or employers, coworkers,

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Speaker 2: but he did. She was alive that morning. She's on

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Speaker 2: a ring cam fit as a fiddle. We even know

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Speaker 2: what she was wearing that afternoon. He says he was

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Speaker 2: working for hours and hours comes back. She's gone, her purse,

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Speaker 2: her cell phone, her keys are all there. He calls

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Speaker 2: a friend that's a highway patrol. He says she's missing.

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Speaker 2: He calls neighbors and friends. They start searching. He also

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Speaker 2: is searching. What do you make of that, Mike Catzelf, Well,

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Speaker 2: there's a.

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Speaker 10: Lot of unaccounted time. There isn't there So we know

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Speaker 10: that the last time that she was at nine point thirty.

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Speaker 10: The only time stamp he has is from him. But

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Speaker 10: there's still about six hours on accounting for which is

394
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Speaker 10: plenty of time for something to happen and put the

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Speaker 10: body into hiding. So the question is where is it?

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Speaker 3: Well, he's right, Davy Jerome. Where was the lunch? Supposedly

397
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Speaker 3: in their house, in the house, the main house.

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Speaker 6: In the property.

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Speaker 2: Do we have any digital trail left by her, such

400
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Speaker 2: as she called a friend, she sent a text, as

401
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Speaker 2: she did an ATM withdrawal of money on her computer.

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Speaker 3: She went shopping on Amazon.

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Speaker 2: Do we have any digital trail showing or purporting to

404
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: show she's alive after that morning at the neighbors not

405
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Speaker 2: that we know.

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Speaker 6: No, the police have not said that there's any find

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Speaker 6: that she acted after that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Dan Goldsmith, I've got a problem with that. I

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Speaker 2: have a big problem with that because in this day

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Speaker 2: and age, people text, She had friends, she had family,

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Speaker 2: she was running in an airbnb.

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Speaker 3: It's very hard for me to believe.

413
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Speaker 2: She didn't make one phone call or send one text

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Speaker 2: from the time she left that neighbor's home that morning.

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Speaker 7: Well, another thing too, is you think if you see

416
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Speaker 7: the photos of her, obviously she likes to take care

417
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Speaker 7: of herself. It looks like she does her hair up,

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Speaker 7: she uses makeup. Someone a woman like who in this

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Speaker 7: status is not going to sit there and leave her

420
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Speaker 7: purse and her makeup and her phone. That's the connection

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Speaker 7: to the world. I mean, there's just no way that

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Speaker 7: that's going to be a voluntary thing, that she's not

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Speaker 7: going to take any of that stuff with her.

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Speaker 3: Well, I got another issue.

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Speaker 2: According to the boyfriend, she was going to the Garner

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Speaker 2: Valley area. However, her vehicle, purse cays and cellphone.

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Speaker 3: We're all still at home. So how's she going to

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Speaker 3: go there without her car?

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Speaker 2: Unless she got an uber, which there's no suggestion that

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Speaker 2: she did. She went everywhere in her own vehicle. Let's

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Speaker 2: listen to more.

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Speaker 4: Riverside County Sheriff's deputies begin a day's long search, but

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Speaker 4: before it starts, Harper packs up his RV and takes

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Speaker 4: off for Arizona. He says he needs to take care

435
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: of a tax issue at a property he owns there.

436
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: The Mercury News reports from there, he says he travels

437
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Speaker 4: to a storage facility he owns in Aztec, New Mexico.

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Speaker 4: He is gone seven days.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I need to hear that again, Jackie, could you

440
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: please play that our friendsman Crime Online tell me that again?

441
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: What.

442
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: Riverside County Sheriff's deputies begin a day's long search, but

443
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 4: before it starts, Harper packs up his RV and takes

444
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 4: off for Arizona. He says he needs to take care

445
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 4: of a tax issue at a property he owns there.

446
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 4: The Mercury News reports from there, he says he travels

447
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 4: to a storage facility he owns in as Tech, New Mexico.

448
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: He's gone seven days.

449
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 3: Okay, listen.

450
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: The last one I want to tangle with is the irs.

451
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: When they take my check every year, I say thank you,

452
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: and I want to tip them just I like to

453
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: feed the tiger and go away, of course with a

454
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: long handlespoon. But you leave when your alleged fiance is

455
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: missing to go handle a tax matter at a property

456
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: in another state, then to a storage facility in New Mexico,

457
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: and you're gone for seven days.

458
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: You know, Brenda Geiger is with me.

459
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: And her specialty, as you know from all the books

460
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: she's written, is trust and estates. But she's a lawyer.

461
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: To Brenda Geiger, that just looks bad. And any defense

462
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: attorney that I would say that too, would go, well,

463
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: there's no playbook for grief. I've had that thrown in

464
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: my face a million times, and guess what, they're right.

465
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: But you tell that to a jury, they're not buying that.

466
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: He least for seven days while she's gone missing.

467
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, that just sounds really weird, you know. With the

468
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 9: thought when I read all of that is that you know,

469
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 9: did he potentially put her body into the RV and

470
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 9: take off with it and bury her somewhere?

471
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: Think of that drive Brenda, hold on, let me look here.

472
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: So he goes all the way to Arizona. Then he

473
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: goes from Arizona to New Mexico. She could be anywhere

474
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: along that route. Listen, if I find out he put

475
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: his cell phone on airplane motor turned it off during

476
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: the drive, I'm going to do a backflip. That's what

477
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: Brian Cooburger did after the four Beautiful University Idaho's students

478
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: were murdered. Suddenly he's driving around near their home in

479
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, three eight, four am, and

480
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: he turns his cell phone off.

481
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 8: Nancy, it's not only that.

482
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: I was just counting the second still. Bethany Marshall, pipe ten.

483
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: I'm glad you did actually go ahead, and Brenda, we

484
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: all think you're way too polite. This is more like

485
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: a free for all, Brenda, So just jump in right,

486
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 2: go ahead, go ahead, doctor, Bethany.

487
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 8: Nancy, it's the hypervilege. He doesn't just say I have

488
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 8: a matter to take care of. I have to go

489
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 8: to a property to take care of a tax issue.

490
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 8: That doesn't sound true unless the irs is coming in

491
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 8: and you know, taking all your possessions because you owe

492
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 8: him so much money. It doesn't sound real. So the

493
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 8: language he uses a little is a little like Casey Anthony.

494
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 8: You know, everything was just a little too grand, a

495
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 8: little too detailed, a lot of self aggrandizement in the stories.

496
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 8: I don't even know if he owns property anywhere.

497
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: Now correct me if I'm wrong.

498
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: But hyperbole, which just threw on us, is when you exaggerate,

499
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 2: not necessarily, when you.

500
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 3: Add additional facts.

501
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, my headache is so bad, I think

502
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: my head's.

503
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 3: Gonna blow up. That would be hyperbole.

504
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: However, in this case, saying I've got to run out

505
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: of town, he adds these facts because they've got to

506
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: see about a tax matter about a property I own

507
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: in Arizona. And then I got to go to a facility,

508
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 2: my story's facility.

509
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: In New Mexico.

510
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: So you and I can split hairs about what is

511
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: hyperbole and what is you know? Methinks thou dost protest

512
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: too much, I'll throw a Shakespeare quote on you, and.

513
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 6: The story shifts and depositions. He said, oh no, oh wait, wait.

514
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm so happy. Okay, he changed his story. David Jerome,

515
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: that's a headline. That's a bombshell.

516
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,959
Speaker 3: Hit me. He changed his story, which he's changing.

517
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: The story is the story. In the deposition, he said

518
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 6: the only reason they were going to leaving state was

519
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 6: that for DEA's safety, that she felt she felt unsafe,

520
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 6: She was worried that someone was coming to get her.

521
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, is he saying Dia went with him

522
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: out of the state.

523
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 6: He was planning the only reason they were planning this

524
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 6: trip was to getda out of the states so she'd

525
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 6: feels safer. But then when she disappeared, he decided to

526
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 6: go by himself. And then there's a tax issue, and

527
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 6: then the reason we stayed a week.

528
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, David Jerome, you're giving me too much too fast.

529
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm drinking on the fire hydrant.

530
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I haven't heard that everything up until now, I

531
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: kind of already knew about tell me this again.

532
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 6: So in the deposition he gave to Clinton and Crassara's attorney.

533
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: Those are the children.

534
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 6: Yes, the only reason he was going was that Dia

535
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 6: felt unsafe and was she been writing notes saying that

536
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 6: she was in danger and felt threatened in the property.

537
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 6: And then when she went missing, he decided to do

538
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 6: the trip anyways, and now the story changes.

539
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: Okay, that doesn't even make any sense. So she felt

540
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: unsafe so and threatened somehow, so he agrees to take

541
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: her on this trip. Then she actually does go missing

542
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: and he goes on the trip alone.

543
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: Did I understand that correctly?

544
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 6: Precisely?

545
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: Oh?

546
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: I'm so happy, Dan Goldsmith.

547
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: Don't you just love it when people waive their right

548
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: to a lawyer and they talk under oath in a deposition.

549
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm so happy.

550
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was a great deposition because he did. And

551
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 7: if you if you read in there, he's the people.

552
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 7: He's saying that he's afraid that she's afraid of is

553
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 7: their son. And then but he kept using the word

554
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 7: her son was going to make her disappear. That's an

555
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 7: odd phraseology. You think, if he's going to kill me,

556
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 7: or if he's going to do murder or you know,

557
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 7: wants to do me in whatever. He kept saying disappeared,

558
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 7: which is actually what happened. And I would never phrase

559
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 7: it like that, and he said it probably five or

560
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 7: six times.

561
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: Well, authorities have just as many questions as we do.

562
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 3: Listen to our friend at Crime Online, Dave mac.

563
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: Authorities catch up with Harper in New Mexico and impound

564
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: his recreational vehicle investigators remove a section of the front

565
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 4: driver's seat is evidence. Authority search the Benita Vesta rane

566
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 4: and find a tanned bed sheet, a band aid and

567
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: toilet paper all stained with possible blood, two spin bullet casings,

568
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: two handwritten letters, and a netgear router. We're also seesed.

569
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: Okay, guys joining me an all star panel on that.

570
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: I've got to go to Dan Gildsmith, private eye, former

571
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: law enforcement.

572
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: That's not good.

573
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 7: Oh no, it's not good. If there's evidence, and it's easy,

574
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 7: pretty easy to test it and see if it's her

575
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 7: blood's You've got some explaining to do.

576
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 2: And that's what I don't understand. Has it been tested,

577
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: Davy Jerome? Is it her blood?

578
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 6: The police don't say much. Keith story is he's all

579
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 6: it has thin skin and bleeds a little bit now

580
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 6: and then. And the bullet casings are when there are

581
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 6: coyotes threatening the animals, they make two shots in the air.

582
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: You know what, I could believe the thin scin My

583
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: dad had that and was on blood thinner and if

584
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: he got cut or even bumped his hand, he would

585
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: bleed like crazy.

586
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: And I could separately believe.

587
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you shoot in the air, if you see coyote

588
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: on your property, if you have animals there. But when

589
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: you add the two together, plus the wacky story that

590
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: she's afraid of her son and was writing notes that

591
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: she was afraid and wanted to get away, and then

592
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: she goes missing and he goes away anyway instead of

593
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: trying to find her. No, No, it's starting to become

594
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: too much evidence.

595
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: But that's not all. Wait for it, another dead body

596
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: pops up. Take a listen.

597
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: Eighteen months after Abram's disappearance, another tragedy happens at the Ranch.

598
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: Ranch had Jody Newkirk dies in a reported ATV rollover accident.

599
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 4: It's Keith Harper who found her. Newkirk had reportedly worked

600
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 4: on the ranch for about three and a half months.

601
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: Harper says she asked him for a shovel and then

602
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: wrote off to look for a Christmas tree, even though

603
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 4: ing About an hour later, Harper says he went looking

604
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: for Newkirk, noticed a blinking orange light in the distance,

605
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: and found Newkirk beneath the ATV. Harper calls nine to

606
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 4: one one sometime after five pm. A responding CHP officer

607
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: finds him performing CPR on Newkirk. She is pinned underneath

608
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 4: the altrained vehicle. The Mercury News reports paramedics pronounced Newkirk

609
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: forty six dead less than ten minutes later. The responding

610
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 4: CHP officer has questions. He reportedly tells the coroner that

611
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 4: there did not appear to be any trauma on Newkirk's

612
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: body consistent with a rollover accident. There is no observed

613
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: major damage to the ATV, and tire tracks leading to

614
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 4: the vehicle end abruptly behind it, indicating the ATV simply

615
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 4: came to a stop. There were also no skin or

616
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 4: slide marks, and the soil around the ATV is not disturbed.

617
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: And as it turns out, the cod cause of death

618
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: was actually a meth overdose. Okay, So why then did

619
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: he say that she died beneath an ATV from a

620
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: rollover when all the evidence shows the ATV did not

621
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: roll over, her body didn't die, she did pass away,

622
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: and the body indicates no trauma from an ATV rollover

623
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: on her.

624
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: So why did he say that? Now?

625
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: I've got one missing girlfriend and a dead ranch hand.

626
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greace.

627
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: There's more. Listen.

628
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 4: Keith Harper has been living on DIA Abram's property since

629
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 4: he returned from his RV trip to Arizona in New

630
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 4: Mexico less than forty eight hours after she was last seen.

631
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: On August tenth, Harper allegedly content Orange County real estate

632
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 4: agent Jeanine Daniels, telling her he had owned the Beneatha

633
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: list of property for sixteen years. According to a sworn

634
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: declaration filed in court by Daniels, Harper told her that

635
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 4: he believed the property was worth five point two million

636
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 4: dollars and he would like it to be listed on

637
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 4: the market starting in February twenty twenty four. Harper's attorney,

638
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: Rob Shilling initially denied that Harper tried to list the

639
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: ranch for sale and said, quote, we've got unsubstatuated allegations

640
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 4: other than this woman saying he wanted to list the property.

641
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 4: Mister Harper denies that that ever occurred.

642
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: No way, no way, Davy Jerome, Isn't it true that

643
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: Keith Harper's lawyer said he didn't try to list that property,

644
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: but then the realtor showed screenshots of him texting her

645
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: about listing the property.

646
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 6: That's correct.

647
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: This guy's telling.

648
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: Way too many lies, way too many lies. So explain

649
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 2: to me, Davy Jerome, where does he stand in line

650
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: to get her proper pretty and money? And why the

651
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: hey are we getting an analysis on that blood the

652
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: DNA found in his RV.

653
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 6: He still stands to take half of that property.

654
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 2: Now, what can you tell me about some agreement between

655
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: him and the children if nobody gets charged with their disappearance,

656
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: they're gonna split the money in twenty twenty five?

657
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: Is that real?

658
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 6: It's the The last court document that came out was

659
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 6: that that was but he's been removed as a trustee

660
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 6: since then and he's now been evicted.

661
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: Also, Well, I don't understand how you can do that,

662
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: Brenda Geiger. Brenda Geiger is renowned for trusts and estates work.

663
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, people have killed over a

664
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: lot less than one hundred and sixteen acre ranch and

665
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: some money.

666
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 3: A lot less, you know, Brenda Geiger.

667
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: A case I prosecuted was over a five dollars hit

668
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: of crack. I had another one over a twenty five

669
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: dollars debt. So people kill over a lot less? Yes,

670
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 2: then a big beautiful ranch in California. So, Brenda, I'm

671
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: not sure that that's real. David drum jump in if

672
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: you know better. But how can three people, two children

673
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 2: and a boyfriend agree, Hey, if neither of us get

674
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: charged with her disappearance or murder, will split all our

675
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: money in twenty twenty five. I've never heard of that.

676
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: It sounds illegal.

677
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 9: Well, basically, he was left as the beneficiary of the

678
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 9: restated trust that she did two weeks before she died.

679
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: Oh, dear, I didn't realize it was just two weeks

680
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: before she died. Brenda, I'm so glad you said that.

681
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

682
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, so you know, that's where the potential for what

683
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 9: we call an undue influenced claim is made with the court.

684
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 9: That's what DIA's children did, so they filed this petition

685
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 9: saying that he unduly influenced her decision to make that change.

686
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 9: And so the court looked at several different factors and

687
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 9: a lot of times in these cases, the parties will

688
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 9: come to an agreement because they're slogging it out, slogging

689
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 9: it out, and in order to you know, shortcut protracted litigation,

690
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 9: they'll go in and they'll make a settlement. So in

691
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 9: this case, the parties, you know, her children and Harper,

692
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 9: even though everything was supposed to go one hundred percent

693
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 9: to Harper if within the five year period. You know,

694
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 9: if somebody disappears in California for five years, then you

695
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 9: if they reach that five year period and the person

696
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 9: doesn't appear, they're presumed to be dead. So at that

697
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 9: point that's when the trust terms would go into effect.

698
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 9: Or in this case, because there was that petition that

699
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 9: was filed with the court and approved back in March

700
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 9: of twenty twenty three, that order by the judge says

701
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 9: that fifty percent will go the liquidated estate. You know,

702
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 9: all the properties get sold, fifty percent will go to

703
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 9: Daz two children, fifty percent to Harper. But there's one

704
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 9: rub here. If by chance, either one of the children

705
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 9: or Harper are found to have been responsible for her death,

706
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 9: there's a thing called a slayer statue in California which

707
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 9: prohibits anybody from inheriting under those circumstances.

708
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: And it's not nearly as nefarious as it sounded when

709
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: I said it.

710
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: I kind of like my way better, but actually I

711
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 3: think you're right.

712
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: So, long story short, if the number of years pass

713
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: and she is assumed.

714
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 6: Dead with that new trust that is it was that

715
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 6: Brenda who just put in that it was put in effect.

716
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 6: That was signed two weeks before her disappearance. She previously

717
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 6: had a reputable San Diego attorney that was filing her

718
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 6: papers as she fought her children in court. But now

719
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 6: she drove down to Palm Springs and found a new attorney,

720
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 6: man named Dennis Healy, who draws up this new trust

721
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 6: and begins shows up a few times at court with Harper,

722
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 6: and then himself dies unexpectedly of natural causes. So we'll

723
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 6: never know whether do you really filed that trust, or

724
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 6: whether Keith was with her or anything like that.

725
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: Mike Hatzel, founder or president of piece for River K

726
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: nine Search and Rescue, what should be happening right now

727
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: to find do you?

728
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 6: Well?

729
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 10: The biggest thing that sticks out. Her properties have all

730
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 10: been searched a minimum of seven times as of right now.

731
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 10: We know that's happened. So the route to Arizona is

732
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 10: the one that stands out, and at that point we

733
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 10: need to start looking out the route, the route he took,

734
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 10: the time that he took. We have to look for

735
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 10: any turnout that would have would grant privacy. Basically, just

736
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 10: start working that whole route. That's that would be the

737
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 10: next search that needs to happen if it hasn't happened already.

738
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 10: But the properties have been searched in the areas around

739
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 10: her properties have been searched many times, and San Bernardino

740
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 10: County has and Riverside has excellent teams, so they would

741
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 10: do a really good job with that. So if it's

742
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 10: I just have to believe it's not there and that

743
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 10: they have to look elsewhere.

744
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: I agree, Dan Goldsmith joining me private eye, former law

745
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 2: enforcement Goldsmith Investigations. What do you think should be being

746
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: done right now?

747
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 7: Well, I know they just did another search horn at

748
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 7: the property and they actually brought in excavators to do

749
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 7: some digging, but they still didn't find anything, or they're

750
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 7: not recording that they found anything. I still go back

751
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 7: to him taken off within a few days after her disappearance,

752
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 7: and it's just a great desert all the way from

753
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 7: Riverside County, all the way into Arizona and then even

754
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 7: going up to the tips in Farmington, New Mexico, where

755
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 7: his storage facility is. That the law enforcement should have

756
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 7: if they weren't doing their job. But if they would

757
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 7: have searched that facility within a week or so, they

758
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 7: may have found the body there, but who knows. Now

759
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 7: three and a half hours.

760
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: Later, Brindan Giger, what do you think should be done legally?

761
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 9: Well, I don't think there's much that can be done

762
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 9: at this point until it's determined whether or not she's

763
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 9: deceased or that five year period goes by. Really, it's

764
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 9: just kind of be stuck in limbo and the court

765
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 9: appointed trustee is just going to have to manage that

766
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 9: property and or liquidate and then you know, under the

767
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 9: Prudent Investor will Act, you know, prudently invest the proceeds

768
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 9: from the sale of the property.

769
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: Isn't it true, Brenda, that he has been removed as

770
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: a trustee by the court?

771
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 6: Yes?

772
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 9: Yes, And I think the death nil and the coffin

773
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 9: on that one, with the fact that those text messages

774
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 9: showed that he was trying to engage a realtor to

775
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 9: sell the property. You know, he also failed the file

776
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 9: tax returns, He wasn't making the mortgage payments at some point,

777
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 9: and he missed some fire insurance policy payments on the ranch,

778
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 9: so you know, he wasn't doing his duties as trustees.

779
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot, Brenda Geiger, of Scott Peterson,

780
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: who the moment Lacey went missing, he tried to sell.

781
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 3: Her vehicle and order the porn channel.

782
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: So obviously he's not expecting her to come back home anytime, saying,

783
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: I mean doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, joining us out

784
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: of California. I had a problem this guy the moment

785
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: he said he doesn't remember where he got an engagement.

786
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 8: Ring, Oh, Nancy. The relationships always tell a story. The

787
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 8: relationship between Dia and Harper, who ever sold them the ringing,

788
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 8: the family history, But the most important store relationship story

789
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 8: is between Harper and her two children. If you love

790
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 8: somebody enough to get engaged, to put them in your trust,

791
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 8: to bequeath property to them, you're going to sit down

792
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 8: at a dinner table with them and your children and

793
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 8: make sure everybody gets along. And that doesn't seem to

794
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 8: have happened. And that is the biggest story full in

795
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 8: this entire situation to me, is the lack of love

796
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 8: amongst various family members. That tells the big story.

797
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: And David gera, I'm joining us from Idle Wild town

798
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: crier David Jerome, what happens next and how do we

799
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: find out the DNA results?

800
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 6: The DNA results. When the police choose to release any information,

801
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 6: what happens next? I know December twentieth, there's another court

802
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 6: date in which Harper is supposed to show a good

803
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 6: accounting of his behavior as a trustee. But that's extremely unlikely.

804
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 6: He's very disorganized. The lawyer he's working with is mostly

805
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 6: a producer of excuses, and they may not even show

806
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 6: up for that. They also there were sanctions at the

807
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 6: last when he was removed as a trustee. There were

808
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 6: sanctions which will be stayed until this December twentieth hearing.

809
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: I just don't believe that by hiding a body you

810
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: can literally get away with murder.

811
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

812
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 2: Again, no one has been charged or named a person

813
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: of interest in this case.

814
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: We wait as just as some fools. Goodbye for