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Speaker 1: I've had Sasha on before. People loved her, thrilled to

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Speaker 1: have her back. A lot has happened since Sasha was

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Speaker 1: last on. One of the things, of course, is the

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Speaker 1: Signal Chat, where the top security officials in the country.

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Speaker 1: We're using signal to communicate about attack plans in advance.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, we'll talk about all of it

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Speaker 1: and more. But welcome Sasha Ingber, Welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, good to see you.

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Speaker 3: And I just want to make clear that I'm not

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Speaker 3: in my bedroom. I am in a hotel room in Michigan,

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Speaker 3: and it's good to be with you to talk about

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Speaker 3: Signal Gate.

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Speaker 1: Signal Gate. Indeed, so I have to say, there is

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Speaker 1: a story about Congressman Himes asking questions of Director Tulsa

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Speaker 1: Gay at a congressional hearing, and there are stories that

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Speaker 1: extend out the hearing transcript, making up a dialogue between

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Speaker 1: the two to make it worse for Tulsei Gabbard. And

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Speaker 1: it was already bad enough for my estimation when the

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Speaker 1: director of National Intelligence is asked a question by a

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Speaker 1: congressman and Congressman says, hey, you retweeted a contributor to

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Speaker 1: Russia Today, Russian State TV and the US Director of

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Speaker 1: National Intelligence basically responds like a twelve year old and says,

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Speaker 1: that's from my private email, and I'm just using my

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Speaker 1: First Amendment rights, right I have. Those are my own views,

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Speaker 1: and so it's astonishing to watch that. But all of

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Speaker 1: these questions are in the context of the senior officials

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Speaker 1: of the government communicating with each other on Signal, which

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Speaker 1: is a confidential commercial app in the US government. The

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Speaker 1: Signal Corps of the US Army communicates on the behalf

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Speaker 1: of all of the senior officials and makes the arrangements

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Speaker 1: that they are on impenetrable classified networks. None of that

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Speaker 1: was used. So at any rate, I'm reading this story

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Speaker 1: about the testimony with Gaberdenheims, I'm like, look again, write

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Speaker 1: fake story. And that was my exact reaction when I

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Speaker 1: read the Signal Gaate story. I thought that someone is

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Speaker 1: concocted Jeffrey Goldberg Atlantic story and it has come into

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Speaker 1: my orbit, so to speak, through my kind of information

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Speaker 1: pipeline how I consume news. And it's good, right, It's

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Speaker 1: like it's not but there's no way it can be real,

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Speaker 1: but it but it was real, And so I like

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Speaker 1: to ask you just to talk about how did you

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Speaker 1: learn about it, what was your reaction to it, and

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Speaker 1: what was the reaction if I held a gun to

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Speaker 1: your head and I say, just what is the reaction

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Speaker 1: of the mean of the intelligence community? Not the most

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Speaker 1: underreactive person and not the angriest person. If you can

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Speaker 1: find the middle spot where the most people are, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is that? So over to you and welcome, and

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Speaker 1: we're thrilled to have you and everybody you can find, Sasha,

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Speaker 1: please tell them where they can find you. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Well, it's great to be with you tonight, Steve.

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Speaker 3: I have a substet called human which of course does

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Speaker 3: human intelligence. It's stories that relate to the intel community,

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Speaker 3: often from a human perspective, and I'll tell you that.

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Speaker 3: I also host the International Spy Museum's podcast spy Cast,

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Speaker 3: where I tell stories on covert action and espionage. And

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Speaker 3: a colleague actually texted me the article and I just

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Speaker 3: jaw dropped. I mean, I could not believe it. I

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Speaker 3: would have loved to interview Goldberg and day after this happened,

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Speaker 3: of course he's going on CNN and all the other shows.

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Speaker 3: But it was just wild because you couldn't even imagine

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Speaker 3: having that kind of access that it happened accidentally.

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Speaker 2: One thing that's notable to me is.

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Speaker 3: That The Atlantic is a very credible publication that is

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Speaker 3: critical of Democrats and Republicans, but has a reputation of

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Speaker 3: being a little bit more to the left than to

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Speaker 3: the right. And so there was a narrative that got

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Speaker 3: to be built that this is a publication that is

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Speaker 3: critical of Trump, which is convenient for him. Imagine if

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Speaker 3: this had come out on say Breitbart or one American

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Speaker 3: news network.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we don't even know if.

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Speaker 3: They would release a story like this, but it definitely

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Speaker 3: changed the dynamics that it came out through Jeffrey Goldberg,

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Speaker 3: the editor in chief of The Atlantic. I do think

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Speaker 3: that that is a part of what this story is

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Speaker 3: and what the implications are for media. So some of

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Speaker 3: my initial thoughts when it comes to the national security

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Speaker 3: concerns and what I've been hearing, you know, there are

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who were really shocked and really

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Speaker 3: really disturbed. They were very unsettled by the fact that

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Speaker 3: top security officials would take these steps. There are classified systems,

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Speaker 3: there are secure methods. Yes, as John Radcliffe testified in

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Speaker 3: the same hearing as Director of National Intelligence, Telsea Gabbard testified,

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Speaker 3: the CIA testified or the CIA director testified that signal

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Speaker 3: was approved as a form of communication, but it has

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Speaker 3: been hacked and we can get into that later. And

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people who work in the

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Speaker 3: intelligence community, especially in the counter intelligence community, people inside,

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Speaker 3: people who have left, were very, very unsettled by how

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Speaker 3: cavalier the members in this group could be. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we mentioned the fact that Telsey Gabbard was involved in

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Speaker 3: this conversation and the fact that she was traveling. We

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Speaker 3: also know that Steve Witkoff, the Special envoy who has

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Speaker 3: been negotiating with Russia, was in Moscow to meet with

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Speaker 3: Putin during the communication of this. And really what the

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Speaker 3: ramifications will be if there is no investigation here, the

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Speaker 3: safety of the combat flyers when information is coming out

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Speaker 3: in real time in preparation for the military strike on

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Speaker 3: the hou this in Yemen. You know what else could

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Speaker 3: have been discussed. We're learning more about that right now.

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Speaker 3: The Washington Post just reporting that Mike Walls, the National

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Speaker 3: Security Advisor, had had previous conversations on signal to do

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Speaker 3: with Russia, to do with Somalia. I think there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of questions of why are these the systems that

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Speaker 3: are being used here us? A guy like Mike Walls

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Speaker 3: is a former Green Beret, first person of that stature

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Speaker 3: to be elected to Congress, and how does he not

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Speaker 3: know better? Another question, how does this affect recruiting? And

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Speaker 3: what does this mean for intelligence sharing? Does it mean

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Speaker 3: that there are going to be more concerns and hesitation

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Speaker 3: to bring intelligence to the United States, to share sources

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Speaker 3: and methods, any kind of information that could be compromised

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Speaker 3: as we saw in this signal communication whereby according to

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Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal, a human source on the ground

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Speaker 3: in Yemen who was working with the Israelis was mentioned.

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Speaker 3: That was very concerning to the Israelis. And I'll have

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Speaker 3: a lot more to say on that, but I think

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Speaker 3: that's where a lot of people are wondering, why did

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Speaker 3: this happen?

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Speaker 2: And what more do we need to be worried about?

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Speaker 1: Why did it happen? As best you can tell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's.

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Speaker 3: A question of speculation, and it's hard to say because

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Speaker 3: of course we all can rewind time and go back

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Speaker 3: to Hillary Clinton and her emails. It seems like people

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Speaker 3: are using different communications in ways that are hypocritical at

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Speaker 3: this point, I wonder if it was, you know, a

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Speaker 3: question of convenience, or.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any sense of or does anybody any

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Speaker 1: intelligence community have an opinion psychologically? I guess is that

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Speaker 1: you have going back a decade now you have Secretary

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Speaker 1: Clinton's emails, Donald Trump hoardes classified information. There's classified information

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Speaker 1: that's found in Biden's garage. Trump comes back into power.

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Speaker 1: You would think, why would these people? You have the

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Speaker 1: US Army there, you have the signal intelligence and the

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Speaker 1: guy just says we're gonna use signal and Trump's real

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Speaker 1: estate developer buddy is in Moscow. Does anybody think that

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Speaker 1: that wasn't immediately penetrated in Moscow in the intelligence community,

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Speaker 1: that they didn't have full access in real time? Does

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Speaker 1: anybody think that the Russians did not break through the

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Speaker 1: signal wall? And we'll call for this.

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Speaker 3: I mean about a month ago in February, Google cybersecurity

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Speaker 3: are Mandiant put out a report on how Russia had

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Speaker 3: hacked signal and incidentally, using that group invite link that

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Speaker 3: we saw Mike Waltz use that inadvertently invited Jeffrey Goldberg

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Speaker 3: to the conversation. What Mandian found was that the Russians

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Speaker 3: had been using that and the vulnerabilities of using QR

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Speaker 3: codes since twenty twenty two, so this is not something new.

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Speaker 3: The NSA also reportedly put out a bulletin around the

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Speaker 3: same time as the Mandian report, but this has been

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Speaker 3: going on, and the Russians had been targeting Ukrainian military

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Speaker 3: personnel since the full scale invasion began in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: But Signal is an encrypted communication system, but is not perfect.

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Speaker 3: A former senior counterintelligence officer talked to me about how

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Speaker 3: if one person is hacked, then that can affect the

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Speaker 3: other person because the communication is happening on both sides.

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Speaker 3: So if one phone is compromised, that still does damage

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Speaker 3: to other people in the group. And here's the thing

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Speaker 3: that I think is so fascinating. This person also talked

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Speaker 3: about how the most safe way to use signal is

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Speaker 3: to delete your text messages. But of course by deleting

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Speaker 3: your text messages when you're part of a group of

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Speaker 3: this nature, then you bump up against federal record keeping laws.

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Speaker 3: So we know from Goldberg's writing that there was this

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Speaker 3: like set time when the messages would disappear. But part

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Speaker 3: of the problem in this complicated text chain is that

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Speaker 3: these messages should be preserved because of federal record keeping laws.

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Speaker 3: So now we're actually bumping up between good cybersecurity measures

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Speaker 3: and breaking federal law.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is where I was hoping you would go.

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Speaker 1: So the only conceivable reason to use a confidential system

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Speaker 1: that's less confidential than the government system. But Mike Walls

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Speaker 1: and these guys estimate as confidential enough is that it

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Speaker 1: evades the public records request. That's the only thing I

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Speaker 1: can conceivably think that they would do well.

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Speaker 3: It's possible that there was a sense of expedience and

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Speaker 3: ease to it, as opposed to say, entering into a skiff. Yes,

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Speaker 3: they could have used Jaywick's, which is a communications system

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Speaker 3: for classified information. There would be other ways, that's true,

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. I don't It's hard for me

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Speaker 3: to know what the cause is. But it's an important question.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, has anyone asked the question.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there have been many people who've asked the question,

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Speaker 3: and right now, I mean, look at how we've had

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Speaker 3: calls from Democrats and Republicans for investigations in different ways.

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Speaker 3: I mean, my god, I mean, it's hard to keep

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Speaker 3: track of all of it. Now, but Democrats in the

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Speaker 3: House Intel Committee they want the Pentagon to or they

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Speaker 3: want an investigation. They wrote to Tulsey Gabberd, the top

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Speaker 3: Democrat and Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, made

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Speaker 3: a request to the Pentagon. Politicos reporting that the Democrats

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Speaker 3: on the House Oversight Committee sent formal letters to Trump

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Speaker 3: administration officials asking for transcribed interviews to try to put

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Speaker 3: together the pieces of why this happened. And again, according

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Speaker 3: to The Washington Post, this wasn't the first time. This

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Speaker 3: was just the first time that we found out about

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Speaker 3: it because a journalist ended up being brought into the fray.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the most incredible story of my lifetime

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Speaker 1: of government and competence. It is stunning. There's no words

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Speaker 1: for it. And what I want everybody to understand, we

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Speaker 1: have two thousand people with us this evening. Is what

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Speaker 1: they did. They put out in an electronic communication that

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Speaker 1: was instantly hacked in Moscow. Almost certainly two things the

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Speaker 1: timing of the attack, which meant they disclosed the position

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Speaker 1: of the aircraft carriers, which have more than five thousand

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Speaker 1: sailors on it in the Second World's War. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that made FDR. Absolutely. The angriest was the

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Speaker 1: malicious decision by the editor of the Chicago Conservative newspaper,

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Speaker 1: Robert McCormick McCormick, Colonel McCormick, to publish the fact that

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Speaker 1: the US had broken the Japanese codes and that was

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Speaker 1: why we had won the Battle of Midway. And but

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Speaker 1: for the grace of God, there was no Japanese agent,

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Speaker 1: and nobody in Japan read the Chicago Tribune. Nobody read

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune, and so the Japanese didn't know that

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Speaker 1: codes were broken. And you look at D Day, A

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks before the invasion, classmate of Dwight Eisenhowers,

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Speaker 1: who was a brevet major general, gets drunk and tells

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Speaker 1: the bar that DDA will happen before June fifteenth. Eisenhowerd

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Speaker 1: jails his friend, strips him of his rank, demotes him

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Speaker 1: back to lieutenant colonel, and sends him home. The sign

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Speaker 1: above Officer Candidate School at the US Marine Corps says,

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Speaker 1: duktos examples. It means lead by example. And that's not

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Speaker 1: the standard at all now with anybody that leads the

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Speaker 1: US military, the intelligence services, or the FBI objectively. They

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Speaker 1: now operate at a standard that is different materially, So

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Speaker 1: anybody in a subordinate position did what they did, they

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Speaker 1: would be arrested.

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Speaker 3: Curious about I'm very curious about what the implications here

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Speaker 3: will be for future leakers. If, as the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: has insisted, there has been no classified information shared here,

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Speaker 3: then does that mean that CIA analysts couldn't share similar information.

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Speaker 3: What would the ramifications of that be. And of course

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Speaker 3: we all know that this information would typically be classified.

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Speaker 3: These are important details. They need weapons F eighteens, MQ

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Speaker 3: nine drones to have the details of that information, the

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Speaker 3: timing of it, the sequence that would certainly be secret information,

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Speaker 3: information that a foreign adversary would want to act upon.

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Speaker 2: One other part of this that I find.

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Speaker 3: So interesting, though, Steve, is that you know, President Trump

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Speaker 3: is so frazzled by the fact that this is still

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Speaker 3: a story that's been in the headlines. You know, he's

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Speaker 3: gone back to saying this is the radical left's witch hunt,

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Speaker 3: and he did call it a never ending story. But

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Speaker 3: it's of course the fact that Goldberg had the contact

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Speaker 3: information or sorry that Mike Wallace had the contact information

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Speaker 3: for Jeffrey Goldberg in his cell phone, that seems to

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Speaker 3: have rattled Trump more than the fact that the contents

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Speaker 3: of a military strike were discussed in an insecure platform.

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Speaker 1: I've had Tara Palmyri on this podcast and on the

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Speaker 1: Substack Lives a couple times, and she makes the point

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Speaker 1: about the absurdity, the ludicrous absurdity, that these people don't

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Speaker 1: talk to reporters. The MAGA chieftains all have the phone

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Speaker 1: numbers of all the top reporters on speed dial. How

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Speaker 1: does Trump not know that? Do do you? When you

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Speaker 1: talk to people that they now are dealing with this

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Speaker 1: reality that you know who you talk to, You know

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Speaker 1: that they all talk to reporters. And now if Trump

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Speaker 1: finds out that they talk to reporters, it does two things, right,

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Speaker 1: It undermines them with Trump. But the idea that within

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Speaker 1: the Trump court, that you can undermine a rival by

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Speaker 1: making it seem that that person is talking to reporters

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Speaker 1: and elevate yourself means that right in a dark room,

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Speaker 1: there's always somebody there are ready to plunge a knife

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Speaker 1: into your back. And that's that's the world we're living in.

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Speaker 1: But but, but, but but that's incredible to me. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't he doesn't know.

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Speaker 3: But see he has numbers of journalists too in his phone.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he talks to journalists too. So I think

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Speaker 3: in a way, it's like it's like everybody's trying to

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Speaker 3: save face in a different way. I mean, Mike Waltz

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Speaker 3: himself has denied.

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Speaker 2: That he knew Goldberg.

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Speaker 3: You know, he kind of made it sound like, you know,

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Speaker 3: his number just sort of somehow entered his phone magically

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Speaker 3: from a Fox News interview recently.

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Speaker 2: Uh, and he even called him like a like a

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Speaker 2: low scum or something like that.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact bottom of the scum of journalists,

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Speaker 3: which of course I think is not quite a fair

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Speaker 3: depiction of any journalist at the Atlantic. And then uh,

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Speaker 3: and then there are these photos that emerge right from

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Speaker 3: the I believe it was Daily Mail which put Goldberg

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Speaker 3: in Waltz in the same place at the same time,

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Speaker 3: standing right by each other. I mean, I mean, but again,

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Speaker 3: and it's like Waltz is in the hot seat. He

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Speaker 3: talks to journalists, but he needs to be able to

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Speaker 3: hold on, so he's gonna say the things that Trump says.

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Speaker 3: Trump says Goldberg is a sleeves bagel. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 3: call him scum and try to stay in Trump's good graces.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, so, you have.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things going on, and I just want

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Speaker 1: to welcome everybody to the conversation tonight. We have two thousand,

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Speaker 1: two hundred of you joining. We are having a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the intelligence community, some of the implications. We're doing

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Speaker 1: that with Sasha Ingber. Sasha you can find at Human Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Human on sub Stack. You can find Sasha at the

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Speaker 1: Spy Museum podcast. And I think one of the more

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Speaker 1: interesting journalists covering all of this. And this is again

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Speaker 1: one of the more incredible stories you know that I

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Speaker 1: can recall, if not not the most incredible of my lifetime.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to set the stage for two

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Speaker 1: things that are happening. Trump reacts like a mad king,

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Speaker 1: tries to wave this away. But the implication is a

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Speaker 1: team of imbeciles got together on a signal chat. One

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Speaker 1: of them was in Moscow. They disclosed the timing of

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Speaker 1: the attack, the weapons packages, the order of the attack,

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Speaker 1: thus the positions of the aircraft carriers and the battle fleet,

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Speaker 1: and one of the most egregious breakdowns of competence and

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Speaker 1: intelligence in American history, without exaggeration, Trump's response is typical

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Speaker 1: is to lash out at the media, at the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: at Joe Biden, at Hillary Clinton, at everybody. But it's

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Speaker 1: his team. They're responsible for the conduct. The national security

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Speaker 1: advisor added the Atlantic executive editor. The reason the Atlantic

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Speaker 1: executive editor is in the phone of Trump's national security

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Speaker 1: advisor is Trump's national security adviser is in contact with

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Speaker 1: the executive editor of The Atlantic. He's a source of

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Speaker 1: the executive editor of The Atlantic, who's a journalist and

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Speaker 1: talks to sources. And that's obvious by the fact, not

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Speaker 1: through anything that Jeffrey Goldberg does closed, but what Mike

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Speaker 1: Waltz disclosed by adding Jeffrey Goldberg to a group chat

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Speaker 1: that meets every definition of the Director of National Intelligence

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Speaker 1: guidance that this would be classified as top secret or

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Speaker 1: beyond top secret into compartmentalized information categories. At the same

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Speaker 1: time that this is happening today, Donald Trump, like in

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Speaker 1: a Bugs Bunny cartoon, went on television and detonated. The

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Speaker 1: global economy detonated. And so the reaction to this, as

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Speaker 1: markets spread around the world in their opening, will be

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Speaker 1: one of chaos and panics will rise, Inflation will rise.

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Speaker 1: As always the poorest people in the society will be

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Speaker 1: hurt and victimized. But none of this will be hidden,

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Speaker 1: all of it will be experienced. And so less than

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Speaker 1: one hundred days out, excuse me, less than one hundred

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Speaker 1: days into this, we are now moving, in my estimation,

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Speaker 1: into some really dangerous territories. And so that's what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world in the Trump administration right now. Tremendous

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Speaker 1: assault on civil liberties. I want to talk about long

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Speaker 1: history the intelligence services involved in secret wars in South America.

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Speaker 1: In Central America, we have an agreement with a dictator

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Speaker 1: in Ol Salvador who had run quiet. He's very popular.

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Speaker 1: He is an eighty six percent approval level because he

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Speaker 1: has restored order against the gangs in his country. He's

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Speaker 1: a young guy, I think he's thirty six, thirty seven,

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Speaker 1: and now he's really asserting himself with Trump in the office,

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Speaker 1: and he has established a hell on Earth in Al Salvador,

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Speaker 1: in Gulag and he is imprisoned I think two percent

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Speaker 1: of the population in a place that makes the Supermacs

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Speaker 1: look like a look like a Sunday school. And so

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Speaker 1: a Mariland man was picked up by Ice as he

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Speaker 1: was picking up his five year old autistic son, no

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Speaker 1: due process, shipped out of the country to the prison

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Speaker 1: in Al Salvador, and the Trump administration acknowledges within the

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Speaker 1: last seventy two hours. Oops, but we can't get them back.

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Speaker 1: So where do the intelligence agencies intersect here as they're operating?

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Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of what's going on? It

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Speaker 1: seems that there's some groups that have deportation lists. Is

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Speaker 1: the government following these outside groups deportation lists and handing

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Speaker 1: them to law enforcement? Does ICE have intelligence? Are they

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Speaker 1: relying on FBI? What is happening? How does somebody get

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Speaker 1: assessed caught up when they're taking their autistic kid right

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Speaker 1: picking up their autistic kid from school and wind up

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Speaker 1: in El salvadoran gulag From an intelligence perspective, how does

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Speaker 1: that happen?

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Speaker 2: That is a really good question, Steve, and I think

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Speaker 2: that we don't quite know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, ICE absolutely does have intelligence. We're talking about

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Speaker 3: the Department of Homeland Security. There is within the Department

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Speaker 3: of Homeland Security the Office of Intelligence and Analysis, which

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Speaker 3: is part of the complex system of intelligence agencies that

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Speaker 3: look at threats to the homeland. Of course, the FBI

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Speaker 3: as well. There is a fluid transfer of information between

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Speaker 3: Home and Security and the FBI. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: this ultimately relates to what we saw a few weeks

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Speaker 3: ago when there were several people who were put on

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Speaker 3: a plane that went to El Salvador as a federal

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Speaker 3: district judge had filed an injunction, leading to the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration not following a court order.

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Speaker 2: As we saw there, there was.

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Speaker 3: Haste in getting them on the plane if they're really

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Speaker 3: should have been and could have been more deliberation in

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Speaker 3: who the assessing who these people were.

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Speaker 2: I mean, even in that.

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Speaker 3: Situation, they were alleged to have been criminals, but it's

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Speaker 3: my understanding that that was an allegation. Even of course,

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Speaker 3: the case of this man is incredibly sad. The fact

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Speaker 3: that it's now being said that finding him, locating him,

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Speaker 3: and bringing him back to the United States will be

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Speaker 3: hard and could take a long time. You have to

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Speaker 3: think about how that man must feel sitting on the

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Speaker 3: floor behind bars tonight with people that he doesn't belong with.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's a tragic situation, and I wonder if

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Speaker 3: the United States the CIA is going to be talking

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Speaker 3: to other countries that could provide more information to try

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Speaker 3: to help this person, or if that would even be

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Speaker 3: a priority, when right now this administration is looking at

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Speaker 3: ways to counter China, ways to try to stop the

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Speaker 3: war between Ukraine and Russia. You know, Trump had wanted

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Speaker 3: to do that within the first hundred days. So where

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Speaker 3: does this fall in the list of priorities in terms

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Speaker 3: of the intelligence community. I would have to say that

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Speaker 3: this probably isn't on the on the top three or

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Speaker 3: even top five of the priorities.

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Speaker 1: What I would say about it, though, is the politicization

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Speaker 1: of intelligence that we saw in the Bush administration years,

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Speaker 1: that outcomes that were desired were achieved through selective interpretation.

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Speaker 1: And that's the most generous interpretation.

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Speaker 3: Of what.

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Speaker 1: Happened. And so what I was talking about earlier, in

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Speaker 1: a ten year run of really everybody who's had access

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Speaker 1: to classified information, it seems hasn't been able to handle

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Speaker 1: it both parties. But when you look at this moment

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Speaker 1: right now, where no one can tell no without serious repercussions,

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Speaker 1: and they want an outcome, which is We're going to

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Speaker 1: fly planeloads of US Air Force jets full of dark

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Speaker 1: skinned people with tattoos, including the guy from Maryland who

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Speaker 1: is picking up his autistic kid, including the barber. What

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Speaker 1: that suggests to me is a corruption that seeps everywhere

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Speaker 1: as an intelligence function, particularly in intelligence services that are

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Speaker 1: led under an umbrella of agencies by a director of

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Speaker 1: National Intelligence who's asked a question about, hey, you're retweeting

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Speaker 1: a state Russian TV guy and she says, like a

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Speaker 1: twelve year old, as I pointed out earlier, hey I

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Speaker 1: have my First Amendment rights. So that's like my concern

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Speaker 1: in that is the drift into you know, what will

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Speaker 1: be that intelligence version of what I would say is

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Speaker 1: the quackery you're seeing in the public health services by

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Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy. It's a different version of the same thing.

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Speaker 3: The concern of intelligence being politicized. That those are conversations

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Speaker 3: that I have had a couple of weeks ago, even

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Speaker 3: on Spy Cast, I interviewed Valerie Plain, who had been

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Speaker 3: outed by the Bush administration after the US invaded Iraq

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Speaker 3: based on faulty intelligence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of

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Speaker 3: mass destruction, and she told me very clearly that she's

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Speaker 3: concerned that this administration will put pressure on analysts and

435
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 3: that they're essentially the system had not changed. There haven't

436
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: been any mechanisms or protections put in place since she

437
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 3: was outed. Her husband had written a New York Times

438
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 3: opinion piece saying, I saw no evidence of yellow Cake

439
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: and Niger, which was what was the basis of this theory,

440
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: which was proven to be correct in time. His words

441
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: were correct, but Valerie plain then her identity was leaked

442
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 3: to the Washington Post. So she's telling me about how

443
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 3: this is her fear that this could very well happen.

444
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that the case that you're describing necessarily

445
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: fits that category. I think that an area where a

446
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: lot of intelligence officers are very concerned right now is

447
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: in the negotiations with Russia over Ukraine. We have seen

448
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,479
Speaker 3: President Trump making public remarks about how Putin's pissed him off,

449
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: and you know, are you sticking to the ceasefire, You

450
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 3: can really do this, But then he still goes harder

451
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: on Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelenski back to you.

452
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 2: Better sign this minerals deal.

453
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: And so I think that that's an area where a

454
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 3: lot of people have really spent their time raising their eyebrows,

455
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 3: and they don't know what it looks like moving forward.

456
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 3: Ukraine has been a long term intelligence partner to the

457
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: United States and has provided valuable intelligence on Russia. And

458
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: while the United States is making this black seed deal

459
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: with Russia which would essentially help Russia and their economy.

460
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: I believe it was the same day the annual Threat

461
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: Assessment came out, which discussed all of the threats that

462
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 3: Russia poses to the United States. So it's still clear

463
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 3: that Russia is an adversary. And you know, going back

464
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 3: to Signal Gate here, Mike Waltz has been the one

465
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: who has been most critic assized for having brought Goldberg

466
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 3: into the conversation, but it's Defense Secretary Pete Hexath who

467
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: provided some of the most damning and damaging information in

468
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: the group. Okay, John Ratcliffe also apparently disclosed the identity

469
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: of a CIA officer, which Goldberg did not disclose. He

470
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 3: protected that information so we wouldn't have another Valerie plane.

471
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 3: But it's interesting that walt is the one who has

472
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 3: been sitting in the hot seat most because walt has

473
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: also been a major supporter of Ukraine's defense. I mean,

474
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: I was just kind of thinking about who he is

475
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: and what his background is, and like I could sit

476
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: here and read you some quotes from him from twenty

477
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 3: twenty two. He said, the Ukrainian people have shown spirit,

478
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: heart and productiveness. They now need all the guns, tanks

479
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 3: and planes capable to defeat Russia militarily and retake Crimea,

480
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 3: which Ukraine had seen seized by the Russians twenty fourteen

481
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: and the Dawn Bass in the east to restore their

482
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: borders twenty twenty three. I think it's absolutely in America's

483
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 3: interest to stop putin cold. However, the era of blank

484
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 3: checks for aid, at least coming from Congress is over.

485
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: Then we move into twenty twenty four and he's more

486
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: in line with Trump. There's also the things that he

487
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 3: said about Trump when he was running, questioning whether Trump

488
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: was really fit for leading the country. He was critical

489
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: of the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan, which is something that

490
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 3: Trump helped create with the Doha Agreement before the Biden

491
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: administration executed, which what was a very chaotic and disorganized

492
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: evacuation from the country. So the fact that Waltz, who

493
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 3: has typically and historically supported Ukraine, is the one who

494
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: might face the most damage from this conversation, despite the

495
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 3: fact that other people shared information that might have been worse,

496
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: is concerning, and I think I know people who work

497
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 3: in the IC who find it a very, very rattling

498
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 3: that he's the one that seems to be who seems

499
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 3: to have had his job in the most jeopardy thus far.

500
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: Of course, we know that White House Press Secretary Carolyn

501
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: Levitt has said, you know, we're just going to move on.

502
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 3: He's still a member of the team. But I'm sure

503
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: he was sweating for a few days.

504
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: There, Steve.

505
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: What is going on with let's say your career intelligence officer,

506
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: whether they're in operations, whether they're undercover, Are people considering

507
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: retiring getting out? Like if you jump out of the

508
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: plane at ten thousand feet and you pull your ripcord

509
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: at two thousand, where are where is morale on the

510
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: free fall? Yeah?

511
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: That's you know.

512
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: I have to start by saying that there are some

513
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: people inside the CIA who are supportive of what Trump

514
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: is doing. This is not a monolith. There have always

515
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: been Democrats and Republicans on the inside. But among those

516
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: who do not support what Trump is doing, this is

517
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: a very distressing time. There are people that I've talked

518
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: to for years who are like, I'm scared that I'm

519
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 3: going to get public.

520
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: Whose supports who supports what he's doing? Inside the American

521
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: intelligence community, what is it that they support? Did they

522
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: support the sailing of the NATO Alliance, the sucking up

523
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: to Pooh in the assault on Zelansky? What is titillating them?

524
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah?

525
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 3: Well, I have to say that I know more people

526
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: who take issue with Trump's words on Ukraine. I haven't

527
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: met any pro Russian intelligence officers in the CIA, but

528
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 3: there are people that I talk to inside who tell

529
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 3: me that there are some people who are quite happy,

530
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: and one area specifically is on the diversity, equity and

531
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: inclusion issue. They feel that pushing in that direction has

532
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 3: brought the agency in a state of mind that takes

533
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: them away from operations, which is where they need to

534
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 3: focus their energy. I mean, in the FBI, there are

535
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, old school, let's not do

536
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: the counterintelligence. We don't need to focus on that. We

537
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 3: just need to continue on law enforcement. So that would

538
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: be where the Trump supporters are in side the FBI.

539
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 3: But in the counterintelligence analysis world, there's a contingent within

540
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: that world that doesn't agree with Trump. I mean, I'm

541
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: speaking in some generalities here, but there is that generality there.

542
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: But what I was saying before, I've talked to people

543
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: who are really scared to talk. Now Gabbard has really

544
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: started to indicate that they will be closely watching people.

545
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 3: We've seen them go after communications from the internal systems

546
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: for inappropriate conversations.

547
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, but there are some who.

548
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: Have said to me, I'm worried that I'll get polygraphed

549
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: and I'll get asked whether or not I speak with journalists.

550
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 3: There's fear of what might happen in the event of that.

551
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I still know some who are are angry,

552
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 3: and that can create different response, but it in terms

553
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: of who's going to stay who's going to leave. There

554
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 3: are some who are close to retirement who are very

555
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: thankful for the fact that they are close to retirement.

556
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 3: But we're talking about people who have spent years, years

557
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 3: in these jobs, training for these jobs, and fighting for

558
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: their country, and so this is not the kind of

559
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: thing that you can easily let go of, and it's

560
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: something that a lot of people are very passionate about.

561
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: You know, I told you about Valerie Plain, who, by

562
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 3: the way, does this spy cruise that's happening in the

563
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: summertime is worth people checking out I think it's called

564
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 3: Spies at Sea. But she you know, she talked about

565
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: how heartbreaking it was for her to have to leave

566
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 3: her life as an undercover officer. She could have stayed

567
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: at the CIA with her identity being revealed, but that

568
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: wasn't the same kind of work that she wanted to do.

569
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: And people are not taking these jobs for the money.

570
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: They're not taking these jobs for fame. You're supposed to

571
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 3: be unknown. So to leave that, especially when you might

572
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 3: be in the middle of your career, when you also

573
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 3: see the threats that the United States is facing and

574
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: how it's evolved and how technology has made it even

575
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 3: more complicated, to step away from that is painful.

576
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: What do they say? How I bring it back to

577
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: the lack of accountability amongst the leadership, the incompetence, the

578
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: extraordinary incompetence. I mean, you can call Jeffrey Goldberg all

579
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: the names in the world you want for a Marine

580
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: Corps captain. The reality is is that his entire military

581
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: education has been about three concepts. The first is responsibility,

582
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: the second is authority, and the third is accountability. And

583
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: so there is no accountability. And I just wonder in

584
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: an organization where there's no accountability. Morale usually collapses, and

585
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: I would suspect that that's what you're gonna see here.

586
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: And I just wonder if you have a thought on that.

587
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: I think that they're used to pressure.

588
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be right back everybody while Sasha

589
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: does that. I have a black lab here. I have

590
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: to let it out of this room. Hang on, I'm

591
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: going to be right back.

592
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 3: Taking over while Steve does a little quick dog walk

593
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 3: in the middle of alive. So well, I guess I'll

594
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: answer your question. I hope you can still hear me

595
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 3: while I talk Steve, And now I almost forget his question.

596
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 2: You guys, how ridiculous is that?

597
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 3: So?

598
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: What should I talk about?

599
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

600
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: Good, you're back? Well? Was the questions Steve.

601
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: I was saying that the collapse of morale that comes

602
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: in an organization when people realize I'm held to a

603
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: standard that my commander is not. People have never ever

604
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: followed those people, not for five hundred years in military history. Right.

605
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: This is the most fundamental concept of being a captain

606
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: of a ship, which is probably the simplest concept to understand.

607
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: And this all happened at sea. If you're the captain

608
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: of the ship. You have a lot of progatives, you

609
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: have a lot of authority, and you have absolute accountability.

610
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: If the ship blows up, well you're on shore having dinner.

611
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: Whose fault is that it's captain's fault, not the first

612
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: officer's fault. And so I had these concepts drilled into

613
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: my brain at age twelve in the Boy Scouts, and

614
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: so it's a extraordinary watching the Secretary of Defense and

615
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: State and Director of National Intelligence just blithely reject them.

616
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: And basically the Trump administration response has been pounced in

617
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: whatever we gave away the positions, And I don't think

618
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: that the American people like it as a political proposition

619
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: in any of this. But I'm wondering amongst the career people.

620
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: To me in an organization, I would believe that it

621
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: landed like a solar plexus punch. They just took the

622
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: breath out of people, like, holy fuck, really all of

623
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: them the whole deal or maybe not. And if it's

624
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: a not that raises a whole different set of issues

625
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: for me.

626
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

627
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that there is anybody who

628
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: is happy with the transgression on signal. I have to

629
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: go back to Trump's first term people inside the intelligence

630
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 3: community watched Trump's stand at a podium next to Putin

631
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: in Helsinki and side with Putin on his assistance that

632
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: Russia had not involved itself in the twenty sixteen election,

633
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 3: despite the US intelligence community's assessment that it had.

634
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: So the CIA and all.

635
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 3: Of the intel agencies are familiar with the dynamics here.

636
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: This is also a place, speaking specifically to CIA, that

637
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: is very mission oriented.

638
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 2: So while there is.

639
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 3: Frustration and disappointment, there are a lot of people who

640
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 3: are going to just stick their head down and they're

641
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 3: going to keep doing their work because they care about

642
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 3: the country and that's what they want to do. And

643
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: I'll tell you that there are our questions about the

644
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 3: relationship with Israel because think about the ways that Israeli

645
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: intelligence has been compromised by the United States in the

646
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: last few years. I mean just last year alone, a

647
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 3: CIA analyst leaked two documents from the NSA and the

648
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: National geos Facial Intel Agency that was supposed to be

649
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 3: for the Five Eyes, and this was about the ways

650
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: that Israel was planning to retaliate against Iran. That information

651
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 3: was leaked by the United States by someone inside the CIA.

652
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 3: Go back to Trump's first term in the Oval office.

653
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: He talks to two Russians, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov Russian

654
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 3: Ambassador Sergei Kisslak, and he tells them about intelligence that

655
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 3: comes from a very well placed Israeli spy inside Isis

656
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 3: that ISIS had found a way to implant explosive devices

657
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 3: inside laptops to evade airport security. So in all of

658
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: these instances, important Israeli intelligence has been shared, in one case,

659
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: even by President Trump himself, and this has to be

660
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 3: very upset setting to the Israelis. Of course, the Europeans

661
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 3: are also concerned about what they see take place. But

662
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 3: the question is where do these intelligence relationships go. There

663
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 3: are places that the United States has great access, and

664
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,479
Speaker 3: there are places where the United States has to rely

665
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 3: on other countries and will Trump strong arm them into

666
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 3: continuing to share intelligence. I mean, we're not going to

667
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 3: see minerals deals with other countries the way that we

668
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 3: do with Ukraine. So it's going to be up to

669
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: them to decide what they want to share, how much,

670
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: how frequently when.

671
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: They want to share it.

672
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 3: And I think that that keeps a lot of intelligence

673
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 3: officers up at night. Now with Israel specifically, there's a

674
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 3: lot of alignment on the Middle East region and the

675
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 3: fact that Israel is grateful that this administration struck the

676
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: hoof the is harder than the Biden administration. That this

677
00:51:53,520 --> 00:52:00,280
Speaker 3: administration supports the decisions they make on Iran and the

678
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 3: whole area at large. And we've now seen Nenyahu himself

679
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 3: be emboldened enough to not just signal and move to

680
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 3: have the head of shin Bet, which is Israel's domestic

681
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: security agency, from being removed. But now he has named

682
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 3: his successor, even though Ronan Barr, the head of shin Bet,

683
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 3: is still around. Where does that come from? I think

684
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: it actually comes from a closeness to President Trump and

685
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: the fact that this relationship still continues. But I do

686
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 3: think that inside CIA and other agencies, the letting go

687
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: of officers and the intel sharing are really big concerns

688
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 3: in addition to seeing the signal chat exchange.

689
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: Do you talk to people that are really pessimistic about

690
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: the next three years that where this is all going

691
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: right to the to the to a terrible place could

692
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 1: take us inside you're you're kind of like you're outer

693
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: kind of pessimistic circle of sources where you say, you know,

694
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: not not not someone who you you you you think

695
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: is off the wall, but somebody you think as wow,

696
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of the furthest out fence, that that's a

697
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: that's a dark vision, worst case and that's like wow,

698
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: that that's like oh, like I you know that that

699
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: that that kind of gets you. Yeah.

700
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 3: I mean I think that there are issues and moments

701
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 3: where people get upset and then they you know, continue

702
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 3: to do their work.

703
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: Uh.

704
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: It's hard to think of one specific example off the

705
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: top of my head. I do think that this is

706
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: a moment that has has been hard for a lot

707
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 3: of people in the intelligence community seeing this administration, uh,

708
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: seeing narratives that uh don't necessarily stack up to fact.

709
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 3: I mean, uh, if we go back to the Oval

710
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 3: Office visit between Trump and Zelenski, where uh, Trump essentially

711
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 3: in the days leading into it, had called Zelensky a

712
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 3: dictator who wouldn't hold elections, even though Ukraine won't hold

713
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 3: elections during wartime according to their own constitution a time

714
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: of uh you know, military uh changes. So the narrative

715
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 3: that Trump put forth is very much at odds with

716
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 3: what the CIA officers have seen. That's very upsetting. I

717
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 3: think that there that is demoralizing.

718
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: This is not a time.

719
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 3: But but I will also say that there I've come

720
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 3: across people who want to get into intelligence, who want

721
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 3: to be part of national security, and so again it's

722
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 3: it's there isn't one story at play here. And I

723
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 3: also think that the longer I think that the longer

724
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 3: term vision of where this country goes is is what's

725
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 3: keeping a lot of people very very worried right now?

726
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 3: You know what what happens a year from now, what

727
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 3: happens in the years ahead.

728
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: For sure, a lot of anxiety out there in the

729
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: country right now, big protests on April fifth, a lot

730
00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: of the tax in traffic down below. On that. Let

731
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: me as we come to the end of the hour,

732
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: appreciate everybody you know getting on tonight and uh, you

733
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: know you and follow Sasha at Human Uh. I love

734
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: the Spy Museum podcast as Sasha does. Uh, it's really

735
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: really fascinating. Let me just talk about politics for a second.

736
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: Sasha is a journalist, not a political consultant. She doesn't

737
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: do opinions. She does facts, and can't have opinions without facts,

738
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: which is why we have opinions that are factual. And

739
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's important. So let me make a couple

740
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: of points. The first is, yesterday was a bad day

741
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. UH, and it was a frightening day

742
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: if you were one of the vulnerable members of Congress.

743
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: UH.

744
00:56:56,200 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 1: There are three elections in the last hundred in twenty

745
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: four years on a midterm where the incumbent president's party

746
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: has picked up seats. I was one of the top

747
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: strategists on one of those three times. The next time

748
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: will not be a fourth. It will be devastating. The

749
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: tsunami is coming. You saw it in Wisconsin. You saw

750
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: Corey Booker take to the floor of the United States

751
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: Senate and talk for twenty five hours. It was extraordinary. Now,

752
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: any senator could have done it, but Corey Booker did it.

753
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: And here's the deal. And a lot of people aren't

754
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: gonna like this, but I think that effectively ended Kamala

755
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: Harris's future presidential campaign because it killed the scripted politician

756
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: who can't talk extemporaneously. So it's just a threshold requirement.

757
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: If you can't talk in English, you can't speak with conviction.

758
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: You speak in an English derivative in platitudes, it's not

759
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: going to be your not going to be your year.

760
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: So huge night for Corey Booker, and it invigorated I

761
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: think a lot of excitement in the in the Senate.

762
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: I think you look in the last week Jim Himes

763
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: in the House, you look at Jamie Raskin talking about

764
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: the rule of law. You see voices that are beginning

765
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: to emerge now in a new age, in a new

766
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: era of politics that we're at, the that we're at

767
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: the very beginning of. You see a thirty seven year

768
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: old former staffer taking on Brad Sherman in Los Angeles, right, So,

769
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: I think you see a lot of people in their

770
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: fifty in their forties, in their thirties in politics, in office,

771
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: standing up right now. And I think you see that

772
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: playing out in Democratic Party. Donald Trump's numbers are at

773
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: record lows this soon in politically, He's passed apage. He's

774
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: like the fat orange guy falling past your window if

775
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: you live on a skyscraper, descending at a very quick

776
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: pace to the ground, picking up speed as he goes.

777
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: Arrogance of power is nothing new. But as you see

778
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: Trump's collapse early, what it will do will draw in

779
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: top tier candidates, reform candidates, tough candidates, candidates that want

780
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: to make a difference, because there's going to be a

781
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of things that have to be fixed in the aftermath,

782
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: a lot of things that need to be repaired in

783
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: the in the country. For now, we are in an

784
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: American crisis. Have no doubt about that. The assaults on

785
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: the Constitution are real. The abductions by agents on the

786
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: street or real. The assault on civil liberties is real.

787
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: The chill over the newsrooms is real. It's all real,

788
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: the malice, the menace, all of it. So it is

789
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: a moment in time where I urge you let go

790
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: of the past. Who did what to who in the

791
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four election, Let it go. Ronald Reagan would

792
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: have been against this. Everyone would have been against this.

793
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford were the two presidents who

794
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: had the closest friendship of any former presidents. They ran

795
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: against one another. The crisis is an American crisis. It

796
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what your politics are. The issue in the

797
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: moment is about forming an opposition that can make the

798
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: things that have to stop stop as soon as possible.

799
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: And what brings the stoppage as soon as possible is

800
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: the steepness of his descent, and so tomorrow is going

801
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: to be a brutal day for the stock markets. It's

802
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: going to be down thousands of points what he did

803
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: today on the global economy, but all of it is

804
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: going to have the effect of, in the end, collapsing

805
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: his approval levels. I just drove across the country from

806
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: Los Angeles to Palm Springs, to Tucson to El Paso,

807
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: to Fort Worth to Vicksburg to Tupelo, to Nashville, to Pittsburgh,

808
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: to Buffalo and on up to Toronto, and what I

809
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: want to say is that it's a big, giant country.

810
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I drove through Kentucky that I

811
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: saw my first Trump flag. There's not a movement out there.

812
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: There was an election, and now people are gonna suffer

813
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: from the consequences of a choice. Trump produces a television

814
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: show every evening. It runs all day long, and it's disorienting.

815
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: But he doesn't push a button in Washington with an

816
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: affecting Tupelo, Mississippi. There's a lot of people in the

817
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: country who are poor, a lot of people in the

818
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: country who believed in him. They're gonna be disappointed and

819
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna be hurt. And it's easy to look down

820
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: on those people, and it's easy to want to yell

821
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: at them. I want to yell at some of them,

822
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: but you can't. One of the places I stopped on

823
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: the way here was Abraham Lincoln's birthplace. It's astonishing on

824
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: the site where he was born, recreation in a stone mausoleum,

825
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: this two room cabin that was original to eighteen forty,

826
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: not his, but with malice towards none. And that's going

827
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: to be the great test is all of the abused people,

828
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: all of the people that were lied to, all of

829
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: the people who said this guy, we can trust him.

830
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: He's different, he's authentic. But he's going to do for

831
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: the country what he did for Atlantic City, which was

832
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: nothing except heard it. And so you know, as I

833
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,959
Speaker 1: get ready to say goodnight, you know, there's an old

834
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: saying that the years are long. Excuse me, yes, the

835
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: days are long, the years are short, and we're going

836
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 1: to experience some of that. Winston Churchill had a quote,

837
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: you do your worst, we will do our best. And

838
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: that's what we'll have to do for all of you

839
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: out there. On April fifth, March, with the American flag,

840
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: Hold it high. That's the values you are marching to defend.

841
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: You're not marching against your country, You're marching for your country.

842
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: You're marching against Trump for your country. When you protest,

843
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: you are embracing this country's most fundamental ideals. When you

844
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: say no, when you dissent, when you stand up and

845
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: you say stop. And so get out there, get involved. Uh,

846
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: the American people will be the force that puts a

847
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: stop to this. You know, all over the world. I

848
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: was in Vietnam last year. There's some entrepreneur out there

849
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: in a country where America killed a million Vietnamese. And

850
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: this country loves America, and it's geopolitically, strategically very important

851
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: in our long term competition and strategic challenges with China.

852
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: And we just destabilize the country. And it's a Nasian

853
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: ally despite the war. And so the stupidity at hand

854
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: is indescribable. The consequences are unavoidable, and everyone in this

855
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: country is gonna feel them.

856
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 3: Uh.

857
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard and tough. We're gonna have more

858
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: poor people, We're gonna have more hungry kids. At some level,

859
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: the forward progress of humanity itself has come to a peak,

860
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: the cancelation of medical science research, brain science, cancer research

861
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 1: across the board, what has been found out and discovered

862
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: edge will take a step back from before we go

863
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: forward again. And so the damage being done is epic.

864
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: It's sad, but it's got to raise your indignation and

865
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: it's got to raise your desire to get involved and

866
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: not lie down. Last thing I want to share with

867
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: you is this is that in Jackson, Mississippi, went to

868
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: the home of Medgar Evers, who was killed on June

869
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: the twelfth and nineteen sixty three in his dry When

870
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: you go into Medgar Evers' house, the only bed in

871
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: this small, green, modest nineteen fifties era house, in this

872
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: segregated black neighborhood with a carport, the only bed that

873
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: was raised off the floor was his and his wife's

874
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: Missus Evers, merely Evers, the kids, their beds were on

875
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: the floor below the windowsill, below the glass. And with

876
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: Medgar Evers, he was the secretary of the NAACP, but

877
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: he was really the straw that stirred the drink in Mississippi,

878
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: had his hand in every group and every fast that

879
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: he was the indispensable leader and he broke the cotton curtain.

880
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: He went on television in nineteen sixty three Mississippi, and

881
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: he told the truth about aggregation, and the truth is up.

882
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: Until then, the line on television was that black people

883
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: had it good in Mississippi right keep out the outside agitators,

884
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: communists exactly what reporters were called by Carolyn Levitt from

885
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: the White House podium, who are inquiring and seeking truth. Agitators,

886
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: communists called down, shouted down all of it. And so

887
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: Medgar Evers went on television and white Mississippi went crazy,

888
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 1: went crazy, And as he was unloading his trunk, he

889
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:45,600
Speaker 1: was shot in the back by Byron Dell beckwith the

890
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: bullet went through his back, through the house, through a wall,

891
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 1: bounced off his refrigerator, and landed on the counter where

892
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: Merley Evers cooked dinner for her children, and they were

893
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: getting ready to watch John Kennedy deliver a speech on

894
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: civil rights as Medgar Evers, laying in a pool of

895
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: his blood, crawled towards the door. This man was a

896
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: Normandy veteran. He was a veteran of the Red Ball expressed.

897
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: He fought in constant combat from June of nineteen forty

898
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: four to May of nineteen forty five. He was gunned

899
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: down like an animal, But it was said at the

900
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: time he was buried like a king an Arlington National

901
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: Cemetery on the orders of the President of the United States.

902
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: And such was his faith and his love of his

903
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: state that killed him in some ways that his is

904
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: one of the very few gravestones that has the name

905
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:56,480
Speaker 1: of his state spelled out in its entirety. No abbreviation

906
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: mississippissis says Ippi. And so when you think about Medgar Evers,

907
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 1: there's a question why didn't he leave? Why didn't he

908
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: go pack up? All he had to do was go away,

909
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: stop trying to get black people to vote. I went

910
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: to the spot where the civil rights workers were killed

911
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three en route nineteen shot and murdered

912
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: by the ku Klux Klan by policemen. Why were they there?

913
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: They were there because they were American patriots. And there's

914
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,679
Speaker 1: a time of great contestation in this country over our

915
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: most fundamental values that require every American to be involved

916
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: in the fight. There is nobody who does not have

917
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: involvement in this fight. Indifference is a position you stand

918
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: with Maga. Everybody has to make a decision everybody. So

919
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: with that I say good night to you and wish

920
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 1: all of you good luck. On April fifth, stay safe,

921
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: Thank not. I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I

922
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: invite you to join this community where I promise to

923
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: be honest, blunt and direct about what is happening in

924
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: this country. America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to

925
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 1: this channel and on substack. Thank you.