1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: Welcome to On the Job. This season, we're focusing on 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: how people and businesses are getting back to work. Let's 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: call it a great transformation, a change in the way 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: workers are thinking. Employers need people to work more than ever, 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: putting laborers in a sort of position of power. We'll 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: be hearing from people navigating this new normal for themselves 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: as they find their life's work. It's season six of 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: On the Job, and the job market itself is a 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: lot different than it was a few years ago. COVID 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: has shaken up the world, put a lot of people 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: out of work, inspired others to pursue their passions, and 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: has become a new normal that everyone is trying to 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: get used to. The job market is messy, it's gone 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: through a lot of changes, and it is right with potential. 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: So before we launch into the rest of the season, 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: where we'll talk to people working within that new environment, 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: we're going to start off by setting the stage. Hello, sir, 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: welcome to On the Job. If you could please introduce 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: yourself sure. My name is Mark Blythe. I am the 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: head of the Klingon Invasion Force. I know I'm a 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: professor of political economy at Brown University and sometime rock 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: on tour and musician. So there'll we go. Mark Blythe 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: is from Dundee, Scotland. He's been teaching at Brown since 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. He's written a lot of books 25 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: on the economy. And he's talking to me from a 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: room full of bass guitars and drums, which he's been 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: playing a lot during the lockdown. Okay, let's do it, babe, Okay, 28 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: Mark Blythe. The job market is a lot different now 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: than it was even a few years ago. From an 30 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: economist political scientists point of view, How did we get 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: to where we are right now? How far back do 32 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: you want to go? Okay, So, for our purposes, we're 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: gonna tell an incredibly abbreviated story of today's economy starting 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: around fifty years ago. In nineteen seven, one and five 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: jobs was in the auto industry, and one in three 36 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: jobs was in similar industries like steel manufacturing, making electric motors, 37 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: so making things, manufacturing, engineering, and a lot of those 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: jobs are unionized. Then we get into the nineteen eighties 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, those unions that were helping workers maintain fair 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: pay and weekends start to diminish. Employers and big companies 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: start gaining more power. As the economy globalizes, you start 42 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: to see the growth of finance and real estate and 43 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: all the sort of high end services to come out 44 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: the eighties and of the nineties, the Wall Street moment 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: in New York. You begin to see sort of the 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: beginnings of the real beginnings of Silicon Valley in the 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: tech industry. And then you start to get the growth 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: of the coasts and the fantastic wealth it's accumulated there. 49 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: So the bulk of the economy moves away from things 50 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: like coal and factory jobs in the middle of the 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: country hence the name russ Bell Unions continue to fall 52 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: apart through the nineties and the two thousands, kind of 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: flatlining or decreasing wages across the board for most of America. 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: Where was the job market at in twenty nineteen going 55 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: into the pandemic. Largest employer in the United States is Walmart, 56 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: big box, retail, loan services, hospitality, fast food. Basically, you know, 57 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: make jobs in a sense is about one thought of 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: the labor market. Mark says, Basically, the US economy was 59 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: fueled by US making stuff, and now it's an economy 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: fueled by US buying stuff. Basically, eighty percent of the 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: economy is driven by consumption. Okay, so all those strip 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: malls that you see if you're drive across America, so 63 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: that's where people are working. That's where people are working. 64 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: And most of these places are run by big corporations 65 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: that can set wages without those pesky unions pushing back. Essentially, 66 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: today more people are working for less people. So what 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: we've done is we've created an economy. It's really simple 68 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: to understand. There's the top twenty percent, and that's where 69 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: all the returns have gone. That's where all the money 70 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: has been made. So let's bring this up to the present. 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: What does it look like going at the pandemic half 72 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: of the American labor market gets twenty dollars an hour 73 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: or less. Really hard to do the American dream on 74 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: twenty bucks an hour or less. COVID hits. What immediately 75 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: happens in the workforce? Everybody went home. It was very weird. 76 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: March twenty nineteen, people around the world start getting sent 77 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: home from work, which meant less stuff was getting made. 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: Less people were working and earning wages, but the demand 79 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: for stuff was still there. And as we are now, 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: an economy that runs on consumption buying stuff. The government 81 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: needed to send stimulus checks out to make sure people 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: could still purchase things to keep the economy going, and 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: it was whether one likes or not the right thing 84 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: to do, because the alternative would have been the largest 85 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: contraction of the economy since records begun, which probably would 86 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: have been worse than nodding ten percent on the national debt. 87 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: People went home for a while, collected checks, and then 88 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: began to come back as we sort of started to 89 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: get a handle on the pandemic. As far as unemployment goes, 90 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: it was more that people got furloughed, So COVID technically 91 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 1: put less people out of a job than you might think. 92 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: But what it did do was two things. Number One, 93 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: because of COVID, a lot of women who were in 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: the workforce, particularly if there were part time workers and 95 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: services suddenly had to do child kill. Schools were shutting 96 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: down off and on all the time, so pretty quickly 97 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: someone had to be home with the kids. Right, So 98 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: if you were running a diner and you had three 99 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: women working for you and they had kids, you're not 100 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: get an mbak, right, that's done. Second big thing, a 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: lot of older couples boomer age. You know, right before 102 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: they were about to retire, they got put out of 103 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: work and they were looking at their pretty healthy four 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: o one ks and thought, right, gladys were done right. 105 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: You know, there's no point in going back now, it 106 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. So they began to actually leave it. So 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: what you had is a drop in the overall labor 108 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: force participation right right, many people are actually in the 109 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: labor market that began to draw. I know Mark said 110 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: that there were two things, but there's a third thing, 111 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: and it's a big one. People finally had perspective at home, 112 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: looking at the mick jobs that they've been working, and 113 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: started thinking, you know what, I kind of normalized abuse. 114 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: I kind of normalized being shouted out and swore for 115 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: like seven dollars an hour, and I'm just not going 116 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: to do that anymore. And while employers are very reluctant 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: to do this, the only way to keep those workers 118 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: or to get them back was to raise wages. So 119 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: if you think, you know, Amazon used to do about 120 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: twelve bucks an hour, I think now sort of there 121 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: are minimums about fifteen sixteen seventeen. There's a gas station 122 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: down the road from me. It's a local company whatever, 123 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: you're pumping up the gas station. It's like we're hiring 124 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: seventeen an hour and benefits. Right. So there's a way 125 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: in which when you get that big supply shock, that 126 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: aren't enough workers and people have said, you know, enough 127 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: of this crap. I don't want to be treated like 128 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: crop anymore. You're going to have to change the game. 129 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: So that's what's happening. The game has changed, is transforming 130 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: in a big way. And I know there's this term 131 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: that's been kicking around, the Great resignation, basically this grand 132 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: exodus of people leaving the workforce during COVID and just 133 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: not coming back. Now here's the funny thing. It turns 134 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: out it really looks like we massively overestimated how many 135 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: people had. I know, we're massively underestimate how many people 136 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: are coming back to work. So it looks like there 137 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: hasn't really beaten this giant quite phone. After all, Mark says, 138 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: economists work with estimates, and overtime they get more accurate. 139 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: So have people just disappeared from the workforce. Probably not. 140 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: So instead of calling it the Great resignation, we're going 141 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: to call it a great transformation, a change in the 142 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: way workers are thinking, because now they are needed in 143 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: a pretty extreme way. Employers need people to work more 144 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: than ever, putting labors in a sort of position of power, 145 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: and everyone's hiring. So employers that weren't valuing their employees 146 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: have had a serious wake up call like, well, what 147 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: do you mean a cont just pay somebody the minimum 148 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: wage anymore and abuse them? Well that it work? Yeah, 149 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: looks like those days are done as well. I'm afraid 150 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: because if you can get seventeen or eighteen an Amazon 151 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: on a kind of flexible basis and then compliment that 152 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: with Uber, then essentially I'm getting up to about twenty 153 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: five twenty six. Why do I need to take you 154 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: a minimum wage boat? Another big transformation which shouldn't come 155 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: as a surprise, more people are getting to work from home. 156 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: A lot of employees and employers have asked themselves, do 157 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: we really need to be in a crowded office to 158 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: do this paying for rent and air conditioning and all that. 159 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: Probably not, But there's real reasons to be in the 160 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: office even in these jobs, because how do you do mentoring, 161 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: how do you do team building? How do you decide 162 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: where the talent should be allocated? If basically everybody's on 163 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: a screen. This is why a lot of jobs are 164 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: now what we call hybrid, meaning you can work from 165 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: home some days but also have a place to go 166 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: into work on others. And while working from home has 167 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: given a lot of people the freedom to be with 168 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: their families or just have a more comfortable work environment, 169 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: it's also made people realize everything else that comes with 170 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: going to a job every day. It's about your social networks. 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: It's about going out for a drink on a Friday 172 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: night with your colleague that you happen to like so 173 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: you can about the one you hate, right, I mean, 174 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: that's part of what the whole expedient says. The thing 175 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: about the job, and we forget this. It's about much 176 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: more than wages. We'll be right back after the break. 177 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: A strong work ethic takes pride in a job well done, 178 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: sweats over the details. This is the kind of person 179 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: you need. Express employment professionals can help. Finding the best 180 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: people requires more than sorting through applications. You need to 181 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: conduct a thorough search. Express understands what it takes to 182 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: hire the right person. It takes real people, real interviews, 183 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: discovering the talents you need, we find good people matching 184 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: their skills with the right jobs. At Express, we find 185 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: people for jobs and companies of all sizes and industries, 186 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: from the production floor to the front office. Sometimes finding 187 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: the best new employee really is about who you know 188 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: Express Nose Jobs. Get to know Express. Go to expresspros 189 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: dot com to find a location near you. As we 190 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: continue our conversation with economists and political scientists Mark blythe 191 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: we're going to dive a little deeper into this great 192 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: transformation we're seeing in the workforce. Mark is quick to 193 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: say that, yes, the changes we're going through right now 194 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: do seem drastic, but that's kind of how it's always happened. 195 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: The figure is something and this is just an approximation, 196 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: but it's someone like a third of all jobs have 197 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: disappeared every ten years. I mean it's remarkable, like so 198 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: over a thirty year period or something like that, Like 199 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: literally no jobs that were thirty years ago here. Now 200 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: that's obviously an exaggeration, but there's a huge amount of 201 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: charming and reinvention. Think about the entire technology of the Internet. 202 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it was only twenty years ago, like nobody 203 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: knew what a website was. This generational shift the new 204 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: face of the job market young people getting into the workforce. 205 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: Mark says they're a lot different than other generations. They're 206 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: no longer coming at a college, even the ones that 207 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: I know and saying I'm going to Wall Street and 208 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to smash it. It's just it's just not 209 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: And for a while it was big tech until it 210 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: became big tech evil big tech, and now nah, that's 211 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: a bit of a problem, right. Another motivation, he says, 212 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: this new generation is acutely aware of the climate crisis. 213 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: They're living in a world where they're here, Miami will 214 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: be underwater by twenty fifty, and that we're doing irreparable 215 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: damn to the earth. If you really have that kind 216 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: of like existential fear that everything's totally screwed anyway, then 217 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, why are you going to bust your last 218 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: eighty hours a week for the man? It's just not 219 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: going to happen, right, So I think there's a fair 220 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: degree of trading off what would have been seen as 221 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: the normal path of like struggling and struggling to make 222 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: very very high income, because that's what you do to 223 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: a model of I want to do something that doesn't 224 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: make things worse and actually has a degree of self 225 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: satisfaction for me. Mark says, if you ask executives at 226 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: oil companies, mining companies, engineering companies, as far as carbon 227 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: emissions and damage to the Earth is concerned, they know 228 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: the finger is pointed at them, and it's become a 229 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: lot harder to get people to work for them. It's 230 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: no longer just about the money, because they've got a 231 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: bad reputation and people they've got a bad rep Yeah. 232 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: I spoke to the CEO of a very very big 233 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: carbon intensive firm who's taking the green stuff and all 234 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: the rest of it, very very seriously, and I said, 235 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, why are you doing this? And he says, 236 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: because my own family think I'm a bastard. That's a 237 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: powerful motivator. That's so crazy. I feel like that's such 238 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: a huge shift. Yeah, that is a huge shift. That 239 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: really is a huge shift. Right. He told me another 240 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: story about a guy in Florida, a billionaire in his eighties. 241 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: He makes millions of dollars every day on the stock market. 242 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: He chased the American dream and he got it. Well. 243 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: This guy went and gave a lecture to students at 244 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: a Miami university about how he got to where he is, 245 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: and they're just appalled by this guy. Everything that he 246 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: thought was what you do. They're just like, why would 247 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: you want to do that? That sounds grotesque. Why don't 248 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: he just retire? Why do you spend? Why do you 249 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: give your money away? You're never going to spend it. 250 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: It's really interesting. It's just this very different set of perspectives. 251 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: People obviously still care about money. People need to and 252 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: want to work for a living. But between the climate 253 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: changing and the pretty frequent threat of nuclear wars and 254 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: COVID throwing all of our values into question, there's a 255 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: way in which people are listening. You know, well, what's 256 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: the means and what's the end? Right? The whole point 257 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: of work is to enable you to take time off. 258 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: I mean this is econ one oh one. Right. We 259 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: presume that you trade leisure for labor because labor enables 260 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: you to have more leisure, Right, But we don't. For 261 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: years and years, we did the exact opposite of what 262 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: the textbook tells you. We just worked more and more. 263 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: He says. At some point, time and hours put in 264 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: during the day became directly translated into productivity, and the 265 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: more hours we can slog away at work every day, 266 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: the more productive we are and the more self worth 267 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: we have because of it. And for employers, breaks and 268 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: time off for their workers stop becoming an important part 269 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: of the equation. The assumption was if you give them 270 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: any freedom at all, the slock off, and you end 271 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: up with these horror stories of people that work in 272 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: check in factories being told to buy their own adult 273 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: diapers because they get toilet breaks, which actually happens, right, 274 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: And just basically get into a point we're going, how 275 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: did we get that I was not normalized? When did 276 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: that become okay? Right? Like, we started working for the weekend, 277 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: but then we're working through the weekend. Yes, it's exactly. 278 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: It's a brilliant way to put up Exactly. Yeah, the 279 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: labor movement brought you the weekend, and you gave it away. 280 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: This is the beauty of those hybrid jobs we talked 281 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: about earlier, where you can work from home some days 282 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: but still have an office you can go to. Before 283 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: employers might think there is no way people would get 284 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: their work done with that much freedom, turns out they 285 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: were wrong. One of the things that I discovered you 286 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: can do with hybrid worker is you can walk the 287 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: dog at better times. It's nice walking the dog twice 288 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: a day. It gets you out of the house. It 289 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: actually makes you more productive. Okay, So do you think 290 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: the weekends coming back or or do you think we're 291 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: gonna have a three day weekend? Well, here's the interesting thing, right, 292 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: did you hear about Iceland in the four day week? 293 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: They put the whole Iceland in a four day week 294 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: and everybody took a long you know, essentially a long weekend. 295 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: Product everyone up, across every sector, every single sector was 296 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: more productive. They got the same output plus and everybody 297 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: got an extra day off. Wow. Wow. So so yeah, 298 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: this new mentality in the job market, and not just 299 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: for younger generations. Everyone who's going back to work right now. 300 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: Money is obviously still the point of working, but it's 301 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: maybe less of the point, yeah, which means they're going 302 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: to value different things. They're going to value things like 303 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: time rather than cash. This is the new wave that 304 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: is washing over the workforce. This is at the heart 305 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: of what we're going to call a great transformation. The 306 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: way we were has always changed. The industries people work 307 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: in have also always changed and will continue to do so. 308 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: But what has been consistent, at least in the US 309 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: is the hustle mentality. It's always been there. You know, 310 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: if you're not working, someone else's and they're going to 311 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: get ahead of you, so you better get back to it. 312 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: Well Mark is saying is that people still really want 313 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: to work. We're human, that's what we do. It gives 314 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: us purpose. But today maybe it's less and less the 315 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: dominant purpose. What advice would you give to someone who's 316 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: entering or re entering the workforce in the new world 317 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: that is twenty twenty two. Explore the space and be 318 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: clear about what your goals are. Right, where do you 319 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: want to be in five years? By which I mean 320 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: is money really important to you? Because if it is, 321 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: there are certain sectors where you can make an obsolete 322 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: ton of money, and you know baking isn't one of them. 323 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: But if, on the other hand, like you really like 324 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: brioche and you like working with your then there's a tradeoff, right, 325 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: So be aware of the trade offs and make the 326 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: tradeoff accordingly. Other advice, he says, you don't need to 327 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: go into crazy debt going to school if you aren't 328 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: sure what you want to do after go learn on 329 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: the job or jeezus. If you're interested in something technical, 330 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: go learn off YouTube. Curious about coding, take an online 331 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: class and see if you like it. Explore the space. 332 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: I mean, the crazy amazing thing about capitalism is it 333 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: creates all these different opportunities for doing stuff. Explore it, 334 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: try it. There's so much stuff you can do. So 335 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: this season, that's what we're gonna do. Explore and hear 336 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: from people within the transformation who are changing jobs, changing 337 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: the way that they've always done their job, and thinking 338 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: about the world differently. People who are working in a 339 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: seemingly uncertain world where anything can happen, and exploring the 340 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: space despite it all. So, as a political scientist economists 341 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: are you are you hopeful for the future? Yeah? Absolutely. Um, 342 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: we've been doing this for a couple of hundred years 343 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: and we're stole around and five. There's more of us 344 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: than other so that's usually a site that we're not 345 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: screwing up completely. Thank you for listening for On the Job, 346 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm otis gray Mark has actually written a book called 347 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: Great Transformations, and you can find that and his many 348 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: other books on Amazon dot com. We'll also put a 349 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: link for it in the description of the show on 350 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: The Job is written and produced by me Otis Gray. 351 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Sandy Smallens, with mixing by Matt 352 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: Noble at the Loft Recording Studios in Bronxville, New York. 353 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: Music for this episode is by Blue Dot Sessions.