1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: They're a revealing new poll out of the state of 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: California about exactly how they feel not only about President Biden, 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: but about California native Kamala Harris, current Vice President. Let's 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: go and fit this up on the screen. So this 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: poll finds that Kamala Harris, if Biden doesn't run for president, 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: she would trail in the polls in California behind both 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: current governor Gavin Newsom and Bernie Sanders for the twenty 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: twenty four nomination. And Bernie is ruled out running if 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: Biden is running, but has left the door open. If 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: he's not running, Gavin Newsom is obviously chumping at the 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: bit to run for president and positioning himself to do that. 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: I think you know. Also, if Biden doesn't run, the 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: numbers specifically are Newsom would get twenty five percent in 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: terms of first choice, Bernie Sanders would get eighteen percent, 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: Kamala would be eighteen percent as well, and then Pete 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: at thirteen percent. They say that Harris trail's fellow California 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Newsom fifty four and Sanders eighty The two ten presidential 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: candidate Newsom and Sanders each ranked as the top choice 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: of thirteen percent of respondent. So I think what they're 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: doing here is they combine a first and second choice, 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: and that's where Bernie and Kamala are tied with first 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: and second choice. But if you're just looking at first choice, 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Newsom and Sanders are actually tied at thirteen percent. So 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: that's why that's a little bit confusing. Also in this poll, 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: though Californians not feel in another Biden term, six and 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: ten respondents are against Biden trying for a second term 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, So pretty damning of both Biden 28 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: and Haarris here. Ultimately, Yeah, I just think it's absolutely 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: hilarious because when you see how she is losing by 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: seven points in her own home state to the governor, 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: as she is the actual chosen successor of the President 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: of the United States, who is the leader of the 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, and she can't even come in first, let 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: alone tied for third, is humiliating. Yeah, I mean, this 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: just takes us back to the primary. She couldn't even 36 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: win her own home state. That's why she dropped out 37 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: of the race and then plucked from obscurity a failed 38 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: politician as failed as what a Cory Booker or any 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: of these other you know, Kirsten Gillibrands or whomever and 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: becomes vice president for no reason. And let's be honest, 41 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: I think we all know why. Because she's a woman, 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: and because she's a person of Colaine. I mean, Clive 43 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: hard Pitch, it's literally it right, it's a box check. Well, 44 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: I mean, this is what happens. She was never even 45 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: all that popular in the state in the first place. 46 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: So this is one of just the most obvious examples 47 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: of like someone foisted on us regardless of their job performance, 48 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: regardless of like whether they're qualified for the job or not. 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: And this is one of the main reasons I still 50 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: have faith somewhat in democracy is people are like, yeah, no, 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: that's not going to work for it. Well, you know, 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: I mean the interesting thing here is too, like these 53 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: types of numbers are why I'm so convinced that Biden 54 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: is just going to run again. Yeah, whether he's yes 55 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: to a choice speak because they will be their sort 56 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: of you know, the establishment was backed into a corner 57 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: of having to get behind Kamala Harris, and you know, 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: you look at her losing to both Newsom and Bernie 59 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: in her own home state and you're like, this is 60 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: this is a disaster. Certainly, she would not clear the 61 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: field whatsoever. I mean, if Biden doesn't run, you're gonna 62 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: have Newsome get in. You could have Burnon get in. 63 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. You're gonna have JB. Pritzker poly get In. 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: You're gonna have what is the governor North Carolina's making 65 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: way like making sounds like he wants to run, Roy Cooper, 66 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: Roy Cooper. Yes, Cooper, I know I always want to 67 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: say Roy Morris, Roy Cooper is the North Carolina Governor. 68 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: Tete Boodagig obviously wants to run for president. So you've 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: got this whole group that are chomping at the pit. 70 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Should Biden step aside? Now, I don't think that any 71 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: of the people I just mentioned will actually challenge Biden 72 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: directly in a primary, which is unfortunate because I think 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: people deserve other choices. Not that I think that any 74 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: of the ones I mentioned are particularly but they might 75 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: be a little bit better than Joe Biden. But this 76 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: is exactly why I think that the establishment is going 77 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: to decide, after exhausting all other possibilities, to stick with 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: Joe simply because Kamala is such a weak candidate. Ultimately, 79 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: and it just throws the whole sit They don't want 80 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 1: to have, like actual democracy, that to them is chaos. 81 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: They want to be able to control the outcome, and 82 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: with Joe they feel like they can do that. Yeah, 83 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. I mean, I just think 84 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: it's insane. I do actually think Newsom might have an outsized, 85 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: decent shot just because aren't they going to rig the 86 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: primary system so the California won't be as late this 87 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: time around. It would be one of those things where 88 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: he'd have a tremendous day. They did that last time, right, 89 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: So I just it's interesting to consider, like if they 90 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: move it up on Super TUESDA, because people will remember, 91 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, Iowa was definitely not going to be first. 92 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: We don't know which one will come, but New Hampshire 93 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: whoever is there, obviously will have the advantage. But if 94 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: they move and make it Super Tuesday more of a 95 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: defining one, it is definitely more of a gift to 96 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: anybody's more establishment with a lot of money. So yeah, yeah, fascinating. Yeah, 97 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: so she only gets ten percent of Californians who say 98 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: she's a short choice. Complete too, think of how that's 99 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: so sad cool, So fascinating new data on how people 100 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: consider themselves on the political scale, and this one in 101 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: particular caught my eye. Let's put this up there on 102 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: the screen. So a new Morning Consult study specifically of 103 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: Americans and drilling down into Hispanic voters finds that Americans 104 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: are less liberal than they were five years ago, and 105 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: that shift is driven almost entirely by minorities. So here 106 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: is liberal identification by racial group. Hispanic fifty to thirty 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: four percent minus sixteen in a period of five years, 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: amongst Blacks forty nine percent to thirty four minus fifteen, 109 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: other forty to twenty nine minus eleven, and even amongst 110 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: whites thirty one percent to twenty five percent. So this 111 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: may not necessarily be that they are conservative, but the 112 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: fact that nobody wants to identify as quote liberal anymore 113 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: in the period of five years perhaps reveals a lot. Crystal, 114 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't know what you think. To me, it just 115 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: seems that it's incredibly cringe in order to do so. Right, Well, 116 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: I mean I don't want to be called a liberal. Yeah, 117 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: nobody does, right. I look at that, and I'm like, 118 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: is none of the above enoction liberal very liberal? No? 119 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: I mean I guess. You know, people would probably put 120 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: me in the like very liberal category, I guess, but 121 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to be called a liberal either, so 122 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: I did. There was another poll that came out that 123 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting that in some ways shows that, yeah, 124 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: there's like a liberal Like that word has just become 125 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: cringe and has a major branding issue, which is there 126 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: was a yugav poll that showed the way people's views 127 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: on issues were shifting, and for people who changed their 128 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 1: mind on different issues, on most of them they moved 129 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: to the left. So on same sex marriage, sixty eight 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: percent said they became more liberal versus thirteen percent. This 131 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: is of the people who said they changed their mind 132 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: on abortion, fifty percent said they became more liberal, thirty 133 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: four percent said more conservative. On the death penalty, forty 134 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: nine percent became more liberal versus twenty one percent, drug 135 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: policy forty eight to twenty six, healthcare forty three to 136 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: thirty four, climate change thirty eight to thirty one. Free 137 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: speech was the only one who's basically tied thirty five 138 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: thirty six. So it's like, at the same time that 139 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: people are chewing the label they're actual positioning on at 140 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: least a bunch of social issues plus healthcare. They're telling 141 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: polsters if they changed their mind on it, they tended 142 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: to move to the left on it. Yeah, I completely 143 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: That's why what these things mean don't mean anything like right, 144 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: Well they said it before even think about the word progressive. How, well, 145 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Back in twenty sixteen, Well that 146 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: was different. It was like edgy to say you were progressive. 147 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: It meant a thing, you know, it meant sort of 148 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: like not part of the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. 149 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton was famously very sort of uncomfortable calling her progressive, 150 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: but recognize she needed to say it in Democratic primary 151 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: because of Bernie So she said she is like a 152 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: progressive who looks I got things done. Now the word 153 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: is has been completely co opted by a bunch of 154 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: like super corporate, terrible centrist Democrats, and so now it's 155 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: just become utterly meaningless, Like I certainly don't identify as 156 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: a I don't feel like that word applies to me 157 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: anymore either. So it is interesting the way that these 158 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: labels and what they mean and the connotation that they 159 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: have in American politics shifts over time in a way 160 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: that might be disconnected from you know what people's actual 161 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: issue positions and how they view the world. I'll give 162 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: you another example of America First. You know, I probably 163 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: took longer than most, but I start right after Trump 164 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: was elected. I was like, okay, I mean he really 165 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: caused me to reassess like everything, and I was like, 166 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: you know what, like I believe in this, like we 167 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: had these type of incarnations. I'm abandoning this ideology, like 168 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: I believe in America first, and like specifically as like 169 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: an American nationalist, like the primacy of the American nation, 170 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: which translate to a policy level about trade, immigration, and 171 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: also in terms of our general orientation to like the 172 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: global environment for guess what. They don't believe any of that, right. 173 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: It's like then they were like America at least dephonic 174 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: is an America And I'm like, oh, but she supported 175 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: this and Afghanistan and didn't vote for this. And everyone's 176 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, that's not what it means. It 177 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: just means to be with Trump. I'm like, wait, so 178 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: being America first is just being aligned with Trump? Because 179 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: I thought it was like a real thing, you know. 180 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: So again, like I wouldn't if somebody was today was 181 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: like sorcer. I'd be like, no, I'm not identifying with 182 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: a label that immediately somebody's like, oh, you know, like 183 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: some Trump moron, And I mean that very much in 184 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: the like I am bibing anything Trump says completely uncritically. 185 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I think if you asked me, 186 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: like issue by issue, right, But any of these labels, 187 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: I don't want to associate. I don't want to felt 188 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: what people think of this label, what is exactly exactly right? So, look, 189 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: labels are going away. I actually think it's probably a 190 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: good thing, not in the way that the corporate people 191 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: like to think, and most people should just think for 192 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: themselves instead of like imbibing whatever whatever they're like, here's 193 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: what my person thinks. So I'm just gonna align myself 194 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: right the minute that you try to say, like, my 195 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: ideology is X, and therefore I'm going to just try 196 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: to figure out what I think about issues based on 197 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: what I think that means. That can or you feel 198 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: like you have to represent that faction in a certain way, 199 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: You're gonna end up twisting yourself into all sorts of 200 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: intellectual knots versus coming from a place of like these 201 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: are my principles of these are my values, these are 202 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: my goals. Let me individually assess each of these pieces 203 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: to see whether they further those goals, whether they're in 204 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: line with those principles and values. You're going to end 205 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: up in a much more honest place. Absolutely so. We 206 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: previously brought you the news of Hillary Clinton's master class, 207 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: and now we've got a new one for you. Let's 208 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: go and throw this up on the screen. Former President 209 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: George W. Bush is teaching a masterclass in authentic leadership saga. 210 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: I know you're gonna want to hurry and sign up 211 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: for that one, they say, Learn to listen and inspire 212 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: a culture of teamwork. The forty third US president teaches 213 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: leadership skills from his career, opens up about painting step 214 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: inside the Oval Office with the newest instructor in our 215 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: White House series, President George W. Bush, with insight from 216 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: former First Lady Laura Bush. The former and commander in Chief, 217 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: opens up about the tough calls and life lessons that 218 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: shaped his career. Develop and own a leadership style that's 219 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: true to you, and learn to lead by connecting personally 220 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: with everyone in the room. Yeah, okay, interesting, you know, 221 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: I really encourage people to not take this masterclass and 222 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: to actually read a book about George W. Bush. He 223 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: genuinely might be one of the most mediocre, terrible presidents 224 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: that we have ever had in American history. And it's 225 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: difficult because so much of his image has been overshadowed 226 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: by what happened with Trump and even Obama. Like people 227 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: honestly just wanted to move on. I do not blame 228 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: them for doing so. But this is the person who, 229 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, not only came in on strange auspices in 230 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and you know, it's not like the country 231 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: was doing so well, squandered probably one of the best 232 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: moments to actually try to come together post nine to eleven, 233 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: after this horrific disaster, not only that invades Iraq on 234 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: false pretenses, refuses to abandon course, lies to the American people, 235 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: abandoned abandons like bedrock civil liberties. At the same time, 236 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: the global financial system is all becoming precarious and then 237 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: it just completely explodes and he just leaves and you know, 238 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: takes up painting, and then five years later it's like, oh, 239 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: it's all good, you know whatever. He's a nice guy. 240 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: He's like appearing with Ellen it's so shocking, Like when 241 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: you read his mediocrity as a child, all the way 242 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: working up, you know, to becoming the Texas governor. I mean, 243 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: what did he do before that? He was the owner 244 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: of the Texas Ranger, not even real owner, the part owner. 245 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: I mean that's the Yeah. It begins there with like, yeah, 246 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: he was the Bush family fan. Yes, totally mediocre in 247 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: every way, would never ever have come anywhere close to 248 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: the presidency if not for the famous last name. Just 249 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: total like political legacy admission. Right, So you start with 250 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: that and then you end up with you know, however 251 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: much you want to say he was steering the shipper, 252 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: he is just being controlled by Cheney and the neocons. 253 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: It really doesn't matter because ultimately it happens on his watch. 254 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: I mean, imagine you're an Iraqi who had your life 255 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: and like people and your family like killed in war 256 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: seeing this and this, like this celebration of George W. 257 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: Bush and total rehabbing of his image and total a 258 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: rature of what happened not very long ago in our 259 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: past and the history of the world. It is wild 260 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: and you know, and it's not just a raw Like 261 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: think about the failed response with Katrina as well. That 262 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: was absolutely devastating. Think of the way that you know, 263 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: his actions in office lead up to financial collapse, the 264 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: reverberations of which we are still dealing with, in which 265 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: shape our politics for decades. Like this man, through his 266 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: mediocrity and through you know, his allowing himself to be 267 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: a vessel for these like powerful and extremely ideological interests, 268 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: he did so much damage to America at a really 269 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: really critical moment when it was like time for us 270 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: to sort of like reset for the new era and 271 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, reform some of the excesses of capitalism, and 272 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, instead he squanders so much of our wealth, attention, 273 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: and treasure. Contributes to this total sense of like nihilism 274 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: and the fact that like, you can't imagine that our 275 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: governmentul accomplish I could go whatever, we could go on 276 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: it like with this guy. Yes, And then you know, 277 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: it also says everything about the liberal media, the how 278 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: shallow they are and how desperate just to have just 279 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: to go after Trump that they feel it necessary to 280 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: rehab this dude in order to make their point. It's 281 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: just so so bad. Anyway. Best w a bio I 282 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: read was by Gene Edward Smith. I think it is 283 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: literally called W and W refused to speak to him 284 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: because he wrote a real biography. He was like, hey, 285 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: like this is how it actually all went down. And 286 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, some of the other ones written about W 287 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: are a little bit more sympathetic or you know, he's 288 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: the only redeeming quality about him. He's incredibly fit for 289 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: his age, which I do think is cool. You know, 290 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: I think, on the morning of nine to eleven, this 291 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: is actually shocking. He ran a seven minute mile pace 292 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: for three miles and he was like sixty years old. 293 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: He was in the ninety ninth percentile of his health, 294 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: so I guess props. And he did get sober, which 295 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: is you know. I mean, here's the thing about him 296 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: is I have zero doubt that he's one of these people. 297 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: If you meet him on a personal level, you're like, 298 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: what a nice? I bet, what a nice? The same 299 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: thing from everybody here. And it's the difference. I mean. 300 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: But that can be true, and it can also be 301 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: true that he did things and made decisions that were 302 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: absolutely completely immoral, devastating, and had horrifying consequences for our nation, 303 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: the world, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens. Very 304 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: well so as promised, Ron DeSantis has knew who interesting 305 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: add out. I said, Crystal needs to watch it, so 306 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: we're going to watch it together. Yeah. I try to 307 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: avoid seeing it until this moment. We saw a little 308 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: bit of it, so you will all see her live reaction. 309 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This 310 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: is your governor speaking today's training evolution dog fighting taking 311 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: on the corporate media. The rules of engagement are as follows. 312 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: Number one, don't fire unless fired upon. But when they fire, 313 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: you fire back with overwhelming force. Does it say that 314 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: in the bill? I'm asking you to tell me what's 315 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: in the bill. Number two, never ever back down from 316 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: a fight. If I could complete the question, they'll show 317 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: you to give a speech or ask a question. Number three, 318 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: don't accept their narrative. Wrong, it's a fake narrative. I 319 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: just disabused you of the narrative, and you don't care 320 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: about the fuct It's why people don't trust people like you, 321 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: because you peddle well narrative. All right, ladies and gentlemen, 322 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: like yell, wow, that was terrible. Number one seems to 323 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: have taken a page out of Cringshaw's book. Oh yeah. 324 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: Oh that's a great rapperence. This is a major cringe shaw. Yeah, 325 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you know what it actually, 326 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: I got credit. He did serve in the military, you know, 327 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: got to say that, like he was a jag officer, 328 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: worked for the Navy Seals. So you know whatever I 329 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: saw him saying, like his he said it was his 330 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: wife's I would never say that. Don't say that. I can't. 331 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: He's suffering. She has like breast cancer. Oh really, I 332 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: wish were all the US. I had actually a more 333 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: throwback reaction to it than Cringshaw. Do you remember when 334 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: Tim Plenty, who was like the most boring, generic person 335 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: who's ever walked the face of the earth his I 336 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: don't know if you remember this. He ran for president. 337 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: He was the first person to announce his opening video. 338 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: It was like it was produced by Michael Bay. It 339 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: was like explosions, and clearly they were like trying really 340 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: hard to make it like Tim Polenti was t Paul 341 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: was super excited and cool and a badass and whatever. 342 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: And meanwhile he's like the most meek, mild mannered person 343 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: that you possibly can't imagine. I think it also speaks 344 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: to I mean the whole thing there. There's no policy position. 345 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: It's just like I'm a fighter. I'm gonna yell at 346 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: the press and take on the corporate media, which kind 347 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: of does get to the heart of like the Republican 348 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: Party at its core. Now it is more about an esthetic, sure, 349 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: than it is about anything else. So even that I 350 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: don't even mind. I just don't think the aesthetic was 351 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: very good. Mean, and that's really my problem with it 352 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: is I'm like, dude, this is just cringe, like you're 353 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: just not this guy. I also feel like, yeah, you're 354 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: not this guy number one, number two, So it definitely 355 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: reeks of like drinking your own kool aid. Oh yeah, 356 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, like you've kind of convinced yourself that you're 357 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: this like cool, badass character. But that's not how I 358 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: think they would have been better off letting supporters make 359 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: like a meme video like that, right, because Santis is 360 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: his problem, like the dark brand and stuff, exactly. Yeah, 361 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: it's just a little bit too much of still an 362 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: old school politician. It comes through in the way that 363 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: he speaks. It even comes through whenever he's like owning 364 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: the corporate media. It's not Trump esque in the way 365 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: that it's done it. This is part of the reason 366 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: why I like him, because why people like him, because 367 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, well, he's like a mix between like 368 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: a trumpst figure and like an older school politician. But 369 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: then he tries to make himself like a celab or something. 370 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: It's just not it just doesn't work. This is also 371 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: why and we're getting getting like, way too many layers 372 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: deep on the stupid ass thing. But this actually does 373 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: kind of encapsulate why I'm so skeptical that he could 374 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: beat Trump, because he's just like a pale carbon copy 375 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: of Trump, you like trying to Kyle always points out 376 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: he's clearly like studying Trump's minnerisms and tries to replicate, 377 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: you know, the Trumpian like whatever things he does. You 378 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: see it very studied and very coached in kind of 379 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: the same way. I mean, you see this whole crop 380 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: of Democratic candidates who have emulated Obama footages, Cory Booker, 381 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: Beto O'Rourke, they all studied his cadence and his way 382 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: of delivering speeches, in some of his mannerisms, and they 383 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: just look like, you know, they're just they're in imitation. 384 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: They're not the original. They'll never do it. As well 385 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: or with as great an effect as Barack Obama did, 386 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: so it had some of those vibes. I completely agree. 387 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: And you know, this just happened right before we were 388 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: filming yesterday, to Santanus giving me a speech and he's like, 389 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: I'm sick of seeing him on Fauci. He says, I 390 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: think he's going to retire. Someone needs to grab that 391 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: little elf and chuck him across the Potomac. Now, I 392 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: am not going to defend the honor of doctor Vauci. 393 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: I do think he is elfish in nature, and you know, 394 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: chucking him across Potomac wouldn't mind seeing it. That being said, 395 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: this doesn't work, like it's not him. You know, he 396 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: doesn't speak, trying to play a part. He's trying to 397 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: play a part, you know, and it's all I just 398 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: think for DeSantis, he could just say good riddance and 399 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: people would have cheered, right. It's like, why the histrionics, 400 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: Like it's just not it's you try Trump, that's funny, 401 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: but we're trying to say much. It's just I mean Trump, 402 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: Trump is a legitimately funny person. Like he's actually comedic 403 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: and funny, and that is very It's very hard to 404 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: be funny. It's very unusual to be funny, right, and 405 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: so things that he can pull off. And that's sort 406 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: of like you know, he does a lot of physical 407 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: comedy and stuff like that. I mean it just like 408 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis is not that guy. So yeah, everyone, you're 409 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: learning a very clear lesson in the it factor. You 410 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: know it when you see it. That's all I'm gonna say. 411 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: So sorry, Ron, don't do it again. Yeah, the saying 412 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: it all right everyone In his time for our weekly 413 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: PARTI segment with our great friends over at the lever In. 414 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: Joining us today is the man himself, David Serotta. Great 415 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: to see you, David, good to see you. You all 416 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: got a gigantic, major, massive scoop this week, about the 417 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: largest that we know of single donation to big Republican organization. 418 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: Just break down what you found there. Sure so it 419 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: was the largest political donation that we know of in 420 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: American history. One point six billion dollars was transferred into 421 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: a trust that is singularly controlled by a man named 422 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: Leonard Leo. Leonard Leo is the Republican operative who has 423 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: for years been spearheading the Conservatives campaign to reshape the 424 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: federal judiciary. What happened was a reclusive billionaire named Barry Side, 425 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: who owns a sort of family owned electronics company, is 426 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: effectively transferred the business itself into the Leonard Leo's trust, 427 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: a secretive trust, a trust that, by the way, you 428 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: can't find if you look on public databases, state databases. 429 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: It's like kind of off the map. So this company 430 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: gets transferred into the trust, and then the trust sells 431 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: the company to a larger corporate conglomerate for one point 432 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: six billion dollars, leaving Leonard Leo on top of one 433 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: point six billion dollars. And I should mention the financial 434 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: maneuver meant that Side likely saved up to four hundred 435 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: million dollars in taxes that he otherwise would have had 436 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: to pay had he simply sold the company under his 437 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: own ownership. So here we are with Leonard Leo having 438 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: successfully spearheaded the campaign most recently to put those three 439 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: conservative justices on the court, and now moving into this 440 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: next era, he is sitting on top of one point 441 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: six billion dollars. This guy, I've never heard of him before. 442 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: I've heard of Leonard Leo certainly, and do we know 443 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,239 Speaker 1: anything about his ideology what he hopes this money will 444 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: ultimately accomplish. Has he been a big Republican donor in 445 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: the past, so one of the most secretive billionaires out there, 446 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: very few even photos of him. He has donated money 447 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: to places like George Mason University, to the Heartland Institute, 448 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: which is a very right wing kind of climate science 449 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: denying organization. So he looks like, from what you can tell, 450 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: a kind of standard Republican billionaire. Nothing really stands out 451 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: other than he has given money to right wing organizations. 452 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: But one point six billion dollars transferring an entire company 453 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: into a trust controlled by Leonard Leo is something so 454 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: different than really what we've seen from anyone in American 455 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: politics across the line. And I think it's I want 456 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: to go back to the secrecy here that has documents 457 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: not been obtained, that this might not have ever come 458 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: to light because using a trust, trusts again are not 459 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: their existence is not a public matter. So without this 460 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: kind of reporting, we would not have known the American 461 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: public would not have known even about the existence of 462 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: this mountain of money. And it really speaks to the 463 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: idea of what we've now allowed to be to be 464 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: undisclosed in our politics that the Watergate era, the original 465 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: dark money scandal, birthed the original FEC laws, disclosure laws. 466 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: We're now fifty years later, and more and more of 467 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: the political system is hidden behind more and more secretive 468 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: arrangements like this, And so if not for this league 469 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: this would have happened, we would have had no idea 470 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: even though it's obviously extraordinarily consequential for what the future 471 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: political landscape looks like. When you say you gave to 472 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: George Mason University, that's very interesting because that's kind of 473 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: it's the heart of a lot of radical libertarian thought, 474 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: sort of a lot of the intellectual and ideological groundwork 475 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: and sort of activists organizing started there. And what a 476 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: lot of people maybe don't necessarily realize about the effort 477 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: to put these justices on the court is, yes, the 478 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: most prominent issue that a lot of the media attention, 479 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the sort of activist energy is focused 480 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: on his abortion, which concern is just you know, not 481 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: a massive win. But what these justices are really vetted 482 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: for extremely as well is a very radical sort of 483 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: pro corporate like returned to the Lochner era type of 484 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: judicial philosophy, absolutely, and I think side a lot of 485 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: his giving is about that. I mean, he comes out 486 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: of the Chicago School of Economics, and I think that's 487 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: when we talk about not just sort of Leonard Leo 488 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: using dark money to run campaigns for Supreme Court justices, 489 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: which which he has done that, But that's kind of 490 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: the top of the pyramid. What you're talking about is 491 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: at the bottom, sort of the grassroots, long term part 492 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: of the conservative movement to recreate And that's what I said, 493 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: recreate the sort of the entire federal judiciary from the 494 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: bottom up. So to create a kind of legal theory, 495 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: legal doctrines, get future jurists, whether at the Supreme Court 496 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: level or at the mid level of the courts, get 497 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: them sort of on board with those theories. And I 498 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: should also mention Leonard Leo, of course, a big funder 499 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: of his network, a big funder of the Republican Attorneys General. 500 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: So to bring cases, specific cases to a reshaped federal judiciary, 501 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: cases designed to knock down different laws and to change 502 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: the laws of the entire country very interesting. You know 503 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: what I saw in reaction from the right, you know, 504 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: they said, hey, listen, fair game. Democrats have their billionaires. 505 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: You got George Soros, You've got reied Hoffman, You've got 506 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: other tech giants who give a lot of money, sometimes 507 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: billions of dollars to democratic and sort of left of 508 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: center causes. Is there a difference in scale and scope here? 509 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: How do you look at that? Look, It's hard to know, 510 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: because it's hard to know how much money is going 511 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: into any of these organizations on all sides. I think 512 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: one takeaway that should be reiterated is the Disclosed Act 513 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: in the Senate is a bill that has been introduced 514 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: and reintroduced for more than a decade. The idea being 515 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: that dark money groups would have to start disclosing their 516 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: major donors. That's the fundamental premise of that bill. It 517 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: is not a bi partisan bill. It has not passed, 518 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: and at the same time, more and more money has 519 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: flowed through these dark money organizations. The fact that it 520 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,239 Speaker 1: is not a by partisan bill, that it is not 521 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: a non partisan bill, that we can't the parties can't 522 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: agree that at least this money should be disclosed. That 523 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: is really to me. When I hear Republicans saying, hey, 524 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: you've got your billionaires, we've got ours, I would agree 525 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: that there are billionaires on all sides of our politics. 526 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: Why can't we agree that there should be disclosure laws 527 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: to at least let us know the full scope of 528 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: what's going on. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's spearhead of the Disclosed Act, 529 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: the fact that it is still sitting there bottled up 530 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: really tells you everything about American politics and how arguably 531 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: the people who run American politics in both parties just 532 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: don't yet want this money to be disclosed in a 533 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: full and comprehensive way. Yeah. Well, definitionally, those are people 534 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: who have benefited from the system as it exists now. 535 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: The whole way that say Nancy Pelosi is able to 536 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: keep so much power and so much control over the 537 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: Democratic Caucus is because she's a gigantic fundraiser. That's that's right, 538 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: part of her power. And I mean, you see it 539 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: actually kind of hilariously on the Republican side right now 540 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: because Blake Masters, who's their Senate nomine in Arizona, who 541 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: was very critical of Mitch mcconald during the primary, said 542 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: he was going to vote against him for leader. He's 543 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: going to vote for Tom Cotton or Josh Holly or 544 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: something like that, and going after him. Well, now that 545 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: he's struggling and fundraising and doubt in the polls, he's 546 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: sucking right back up to Misch McConnell. So it does 547 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: show you, unfortunately, how much money is at the core. 548 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: And let's be clear one point on that, because it's 549 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: so important both parties major Senate packs, the party aligned 550 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: superpacks that will help people like Blake Masters, controlled by 551 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: effectively the political machine of Mitch McConnell. A larger and 552 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: larger sum of those organizations money is dark money. That 553 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: dark money groups put money into the packs that are 554 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: essentially the central affiliated packs of the parties themselves. So 555 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: we don't know ultimately if Blake Masters gets that help 556 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: from Mitch McConnell's super pac, there's going to be a 557 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: lot of that. We're going to have no idea where 558 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: it came from. Wow, essential reporting, congratulations on this massive scoop. Obviously, 559 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: the work you guys are doing is absolutely indispensable, and 560 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: I think our audience knows that you would be happy 561 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: to report a large num nation on the central absolutely 562 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: the center side of the aisle as well, because you're 563 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, in favor of a people's agenda and I 564 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: think that's what really counts here, David. Thank you, great 565 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: to see you, Thank you, thanks for having me. Hey, guys, 566 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: welcome to a special Wednesday primary election results breakdown edition 567 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: of Breaking Points. I you know, we're normally off on Wednesday, 568 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: but there was a lot going on in New York 569 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: and Florida in particular, and we didn't want to wait 570 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: till till Thursday to break it down, so we invited 571 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: our great friend Dan Maren's at the Huffington Post. I 572 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: guess it's just huff Post now, right, I can I'm 573 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: so old. I can never get that on a Yeah. 574 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: You know, though, I will tell you that when I 575 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: introduced myself to people I'm trying to interview, I often 576 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: say Healthington Post because if I just say health Posts fast, 577 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: they think it's the Washington Post. But is that a 578 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: good thing or a bad thing? Friends? Right? I just 579 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: don't like to engage with false advertising? Gotcha? Gotcha? All right? 580 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: So we've got Dan here to break down all of 581 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: the races in Florida and New York. And there were 582 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: some really pretty stunning, shocking, surprising, interesting results maybe the 583 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: most interesting things that New York actually seemed to do 584 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: a pretty decent job counting their ballots, so we have 585 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: some results to talk about there, so that's exciting. But 586 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to start with the state of Florida. A 587 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: couple races here that I had my eye on, at 588 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: least the first one was kind of the top of 589 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: the ticket, the Democrats buying for the title of who 590 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: gets to take on Ron de Santis for the governor's 591 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: race this fall. Talk us through that one, Dan, Yeah, 592 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: so you had two main contenders, Charlie christ obviously a 593 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: former governor who at the time was a Republican turned 594 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: Democrat and Democratic House member from sort of the Tampa area, 595 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: and Nikki Freed, who is the only current statewide elected 596 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: official in Florida who is a Democrat. She's the Agriculture Commissioner. 597 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: She won in twenty eighteen on a platform of making 598 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: it easier to obtain medical marijuana licenses and protecting the 599 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: state's water resources more effectively. I think that that was 600 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: viewed as a very smart, specific way of connecting her 601 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: post with issues that Floridians care about, and I think 602 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: that for whatever reason, she decided there was nowhere to 603 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: go from there. But I think given Chris name recognition, 604 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: but also the fact that I think Freed was trying 605 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: to make an argument that she was a little bit 606 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: more progressive, a little bit more credible. She started engaging 607 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: in certainly some gimmicks on social media in terms of 608 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: calling out Rond de Santis, but really being a little 609 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: bit too online, never seeming to quite develop a deeper 610 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: following beyond sort of a narrow subset of people. Chris 611 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: just has a higher name recognition. And again in a 612 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 1: place like Florida, given the direction of the state, given 613 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: the fact that back in back in twenty eighteen, when 614 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis won that sort of poll defying victory over 615 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: Andrew Gillum, there was a sense at that time that 616 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: the state could be moving more back in a democratic direction, 617 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: that this was very marginal, that was more like a 618 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: democratic wave. Here four years later, obviously, I think we 619 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: see that Ron DeSantis is very much entrenched. I don't 620 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: think we can expect Let me ask you about that. 621 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: Do Democrats think they have any shot to defeat him? 622 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: I did see a one loan poll that showed about 623 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: Demings democratic nominee for Senate ahead excuse me, a Marco Rubio, 624 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: probably an outlier. I would not that on Democrats being 625 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: able to pick up that Senate set, but a lot 626 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,959 Speaker 1: of people got excited about that. Do they have any 627 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: hope that they could beat DeSantis in the governor's race. 628 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: It seems like they're very concerned about him, of course, 629 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: potentially running for president and being relatively formidable opponents, so 630 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: I'm sure they would love the chance to knock him 631 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: out right here and now, I've not seen any indication 632 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: that the National Democratic Party is prepared to spend money 633 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: to either oust Ron DeSantis or Marco Rubio, because I 634 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: think they don't think it's a good bet, and they 635 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: have other states on the map that are more gettable, 636 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: and even then are kind of reaches like Wisconsin. I 637 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: think Georgia is an optimistic hold for them, and Pennsylvania 638 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: is an optimistic flip. They're playing defense in Nevada, Arizona, 639 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, a number of other places. I think val 640 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: Demings is an incredibly strong candidate. You see her triangulating 641 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: in a uniquely Floridian way, sort of calling Marco Rubio 642 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: soft on Hugo Chavez or Nicholas Maduro. Sorry, you know, 643 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: I would think that that has some play there. But yeah, look, 644 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: DeSantis is very firmly entrenched at this point. I think 645 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: that he's a polarizing figure. I think that there's you know, 646 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: thirty five to forty percent of the population that dislikes him. 647 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: But I think overall, his approach to COVID and some 648 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: of these other issues has been popular. The state's economy 649 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: doing well, people moving in from other states well. In 650 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: a midterm election, the fact that you energize your side 651 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: matters a lot. And you know, I haven't dug too 652 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: far into these results, but I know you made a 653 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: bunch of endorsements in school board races that were very 654 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: successful last night for the right, So it seems like 655 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: he has a lot of pole with the base there 656 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,959 Speaker 1: for sure. I want to move on to another floriair race, 657 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: which is really something Laura Lumer, who is this sort 658 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: of you know, truly far right figure who has openly 659 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: said she's good with the white Ethno state, that she 660 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: supports that idea and calls herself a proud Islamophobe. I mean, 661 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: she really is like a far right extremist type of character. 662 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: Came very close to austing an incumbent Republican and one 663 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: the villages that you know, large sort of like Senior 664 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: Community which pulls has a lot of political weight in 665 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: Florida politics, but appears to have clearly lost, but went 666 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: ahead and gave this whole speech saying no, really I 667 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: want and I'm refusing to concede, and guess what, the 668 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: vote was rigged. Yeah, it's a really peculiar thing when 669 00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: it's so transparently selective. How how when these people call 670 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: election fraud? Obviously I talked about it in Western Michigan. 671 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: There was this guy John Gibbs, who is sort of 672 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: an election denier out there, who the d triple c 673 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,919 Speaker 1: that the House Democratic campaign arm elevated because they prefer 674 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: to run against him. He didn't seem to dispute his 675 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: own victory when he won. It only seems to be 676 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: when they're on the other side of the coin that 677 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: they play this. And I guess there is such a 678 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: distrust of institutions that this can at least help their 679 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: personal brand, help them make money. Maybe, but I don't 680 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: think this is going anywhere She's It is very interesting 681 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: these are that that she was able to bring it 682 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: this close against a guy named Daniel Webster, sort of 683 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: a run of the mill dim It doesn't, but deeply 684 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: conservative central Florida Republican it does say something. I think 685 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: it also probably says something about as you were talking 686 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: about energizing the base in a midterm year, but also 687 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: especially in a primary election. I mean that there this 688 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: is probably even a smaller universe of the total Republican 689 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: and or conservative collectorate in Yeah, so the most diehard 690 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: came out and many of them voted for Laura Lumer. 691 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a left wing or 692 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: progressive or Bernie Sanders victory in one of these primaries 693 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: as well. And Maxwell Frost, twenty five years old, I understand. 694 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: I think he'd be the first zoomer in Congress break 695 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: that one down for Ustan. Yeah. So that's Florida's tenth 696 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: congressional district. That's also a Central Florida seat sort of 697 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: in and arounds Orlando. That's val Deming's the seat that 698 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: she's vacating in order to for Senate. And it initially 699 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: looked like it was going to be another one of 700 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: these big, expensive blowout contests because Maxwell Frost, who is 701 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: an anti gun violence activist, up against a sitting state senator, 702 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: Randolph Bracy, and Randolph Bracy got the backing of a 703 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: pro Israel group. The Democratic Majority for Israel looked like 704 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: it could be stepping up to be shaping up to 705 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: be sort of one of these expensive proxy contests. But 706 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: Fraust sort of established himself by building a coalition beyond 707 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: just the activist left. He had the support of the 708 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: Congressional Hispanic Caucus, He had the support of a number 709 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: of influential labor unions and environmental groups, and he also 710 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: had the support of Protect Our Future, which is a 711 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: super pac funded by cryptocurrency billionaire Sam Bankman Freed that 712 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 1: has the professed policy goal of investing in pandemic preparedness. 713 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: That's sort of their thing that they will quote unquote 714 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: back candidates who support funding for greater research and preparedness 715 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: for the next pandemic. And actually, if you do look 716 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: at their endorsements, it's not just centrist candidates. There are 717 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: a number of progressives. There was Jasmine Crockett in the 718 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: Dallas area and Texas, for example, and they spent close 719 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: to a million dollars on his behalf. So if you're 720 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: an outside spender looking at that and thinking is this 721 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: even competitive, you might want to stay out and that's 722 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: actually what the pro Israel groups did. So he did 723 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: have this this base of progressive support. He had the 724 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: support of Bernie and Elizabeth Warren of the Congressional Progressive 725 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,319 Speaker 1: Caucus Pact, but also the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, which spent 726 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: like a quarter million on him, and this sort of 727 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: Pandemic Preparedness group. Moral of the story is, if you're 728 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: capable of broadening that coalition without compromising your values, that 729 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: is certainly something to consider. But he is under fire 730 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: actually from a local pro Palestinian group from abandoning some 731 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: of his policy positions on that. To be honest with you, 732 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: I haven't borrowed into the details on that, but I 733 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,760 Speaker 1: think one of the dynamics here is if you're running 734 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: and trying to build that coalition, that sort of bigger 735 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: tent coalition, it's not always that you will take a 736 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: stance that is further right or what have you, so 737 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: much as sometimes you might not be the person sticking 738 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: your neck out on that specific issue. Right like Kasar 739 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas who sort of said I'm not pro BDS, 740 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: he kind of watered down his stance on he basically 741 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: made it sound like he doesn't really want a condition 742 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: put impost tougher conditions on USA to Israel, just sort 743 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: of saying like, hey, nothing to see here, move along. 744 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: And that I think is the dynamic that I'm going 745 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: to be really interested in on this issue of cryptocurrency regulation, 746 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: which is that even if protect our future, their outright 747 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: policy agenda is not about cryptocurrency, and it is about 748 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: pandemic preparedness. And you have these guys like Bankman Freed, 749 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: who are by all appearances true believing, quote effective altruists, right, 750 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: who believe that you have to do these sort of 751 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: quantitative calculations to determine how to maximize good in the 752 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: world and all that sort of stuff. Bankman Freed is 753 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: still sort of a believing investor in cryptocurrency, and he 754 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: supports another super pac called Web three that that is 755 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,799 Speaker 1: more explicit in wanting lighter regulation. We know what this 756 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: industry as a whole wants from Congress, which is to 757 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: be treated more like a derivative which has a lighter 758 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: regulatory touch. Then let's say a stock or a bond 759 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: or something of that nature that would be regulated by 760 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: the SEC. And I think it's just hard for me 761 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: to believe that a progressive who comes in on that 762 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,959 Speaker 1: under that, you know, with the one of these groups 763 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: is going to sort of say to themselves, you know 764 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. I want to be the next 765 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren, right, and really take them on. Yeah, if 766 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: you benefited from a million dollars in your primary from 767 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency billionaire and he helped you get across the 768 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,959 Speaker 1: finish line, I'm going to be skeptical that when push 769 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: comes to shove, you're not going to ultimately vote the 770 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: way that they want you to vote, even if potentially 771 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: you're not, you know, the one really driving the driving 772 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: the terrain of saying we got to deregulate in the 773 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,439 Speaker 1: crypto space, and we got to make sure they want 774 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: it to be lightly regulated, but they still want to 775 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: benefit from like the sort of safety net, the banking 776 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: safety net that we have set up for established institutions. So, yeah, 777 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: that is an interesting dynamic that is definitely worth keeping 778 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: an eye on as well. I want to move to 779 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: New York. So a bunch of interesting races here. Big 780 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: headline for Democrats is there was a special election in 781 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,959 Speaker 1: upstate New York really seen as a belt weather race 782 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: and analysts have been looking towards this one for months 783 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: down because it's in a district Biden won by a 784 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: point and a half. It is as swingy of a 785 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: district as you can get. It's won sometimes by Republicans, 786 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,800 Speaker 1: sometimes by Democrats, true barometer of sort of the sentiment 787 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: of the voting public. And you had two candidates, the 788 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: Republican and the Democrat Molinaris the Republican, Ryan is the Democrat, 789 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: who are both sort of well established politicians, well known 790 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: in the region, so fairly fair fight between them, and 791 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: the Republican was running almost explicitly on you exclusively on 792 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: a message about inflation in the economy, Democrat leaning very 793 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: hard into the new post row abortion messaging. So Dan, 794 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: what came out of this very closely washed race. Yeah, 795 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think this race is interesting on a 796 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: number of different levels. But one thing I did points 797 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: out in my reporting is that Pat Ryan, the Democrat, 798 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,720 Speaker 1: will only be serving there for four months. He's filling 799 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,920 Speaker 1: a vacancy created by Antonio del Gato, who was picked 800 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: to replace a New York Lieutenant governor who got indicted, 801 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: and so Pat Ryan is going to be finishing out 802 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: that term and then running in a different district in November. 803 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: Because his home was drawn into those new boundaries, Monaro 804 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: is going to be running in that district once again, 805 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: so that should be an interesting dynamic. This is not 806 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: one where in terms of hard numbers, the math of 807 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: the House was affected, but it gives Democrats inability to 808 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: basically say, look, not only did you guys try to 809 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,919 Speaker 1: make this a referendum on the economy and we tried 810 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: to make it a referendum on abortion, but you actually 811 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: poured in more money than we did. I mean I didn't. 812 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: I don't have the exact post election figures because some 813 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,359 Speaker 1: of this stuff just gets sorted out in the end 814 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: run there, but the National Republican Campaign Committee spent more 815 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: than a million dollars propping up moln Arrow and the 816 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: Congressional Leadership, which is of course the Republican House. Republican 817 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: super pac spent another six hundred and fifty thousand dollars 818 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: at last glance, and of course molnara'm self raised a 819 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: million and a half, though that was less than the 820 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,799 Speaker 1: two million Ryan raised the d trip. All they would 821 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: say was that they made a six figure by which 822 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 1: usually means you know, one hundred or two hundred and vote. 823 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,359 Speaker 1: Vet spent another five hundred grand for him, So we're 824 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: really looking at something like a two to one Republican 825 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: advantage in the outside spending at the very least. So 826 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: there's no question that they felt that this had high stakes, 827 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: the Republicans, and I think they felt that because after Kansas, 828 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:49,720 Speaker 1: after a relatively narrow win in a southern Minnesota special election, 829 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: that that and a seat that Trump carried heavily, though 830 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: one that has been a little bit closer in congressional races, 831 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: that there's this narrative developing that the great Red Wave 832 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: might have crested a little too early, that Democrats are 833 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: offsetting that red wave with this excitement and appeal to 834 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: independence that the threat to abortion rights has created. And 835 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 1: though I was not on the ground during early voting 836 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 1: and election day, what I can say is I actually 837 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: think Democrats have a real case here that abortion rights 838 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: was an issue, was an issue in exciting the base 839 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: and potentially even in getting independence over their side. Because 840 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: Mark Molnaro is not actually a far right guy, I 841 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: mean period, but especially on abortion rights, he said that 842 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: it's up to the states. He would not support any 843 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of federal restrictions, at least that's what he has said. 844 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: He has said that on a personal level he supports 845 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: exceptions for incest rape in the life of the mother, 846 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: and that he sort of believes that it should be limited, 847 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: but in a reasonable way somewhere in the middle. But 848 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 1: that said, it's just up to the states. And Pat 849 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: Ryan was still able to say, still effectively able to 850 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: polarize the race and say, this guy has an R 851 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: next to his name, and at the end of the day, 852 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: in the abortion rights debate, that's all that matters, because 853 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,440 Speaker 1: this is the party that has said that they're against 854 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: abortion rights, and we're the party that says we're for it. 855 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: There's another dynamic here, which is that since the pandemic, 856 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: a lot of especially wealthier residents of New York City 857 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: have moved out to the Hudson Valley two hours sometimes 858 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,879 Speaker 1: three hours north. It's very beautiful region, homes and either 859 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,320 Speaker 1: in the mountains and the Catskills or in the valley itself. 860 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 1: And I have to think that that has had an 861 00:49:53,320 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: impact on the electorate up there. And it sounds like Woodstock, Kingston, Rhinebeck, Hudson, 862 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,920 Speaker 1: New York, Kinderhook. These are places where there has been 863 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: an influx of people from at least closer to the 864 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: New York City metropolitan area. We've got people who are 865 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,359 Speaker 1: able to work from home now, so they have more flexibility, 866 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: they can move on a little further a little bout 867 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,880 Speaker 1: quality of life. Maybe cheaper housing, but probably still very expensive. 868 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: So I mean that makes a lot of sense. And 869 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,879 Speaker 1: the other thing here you were pointing to that there 870 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: have been a few special elections now in addition to 871 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,279 Speaker 1: that Kansas ballot initiative that obviously swung hard for Democrats 872 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: or for the pro choice position, I should say, because 873 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: I think there were some significant number minority of Republicans 874 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: who voted for the pro choice position there as well. 875 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: But you had nebraska one Postobs that was a Trump 876 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: plus eleven district that the Republicans only one by five. 877 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: You had Minnesota's first district that was a Trump plus 878 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: ten district and Republicans only one by four, so their 879 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 1: margins significantly diminished. You had this one, which was a 880 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,959 Speaker 1: Biden plus one point five. It looks like Pat Ryan 881 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: is going to exceed that just by a little bit, 882 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,880 Speaker 1: not a whole lot, but outperform a little bit there. 883 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: And then there was actually another special election yesterday in 884 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: a much redder part of the state that Trump won 885 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 1: by eleven and the Republican only won by seven. So 886 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,680 Speaker 1: you have kind of a consistent trend. And then the 887 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: other thing that was very interesting to me, Dan is 888 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: we're used to pollsters underestimating the Republican side of the ledger, 889 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,799 Speaker 1: so Republicans sort of outperforming where the polls are. We've 890 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,719 Speaker 1: now had a couple instances where actually Democrats have been 891 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: outperforming what the polls are predicting, and this was a 892 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: really clear example of that, this special election. So I'm 893 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,240 Speaker 1: looking at a tweet from Polling USA, and the polls 894 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: leading up to this special election there was Trident Polling 895 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: had Molinaro plus ten Data for Progress, which is actually 896 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: Progressive pollster Malinaro plus eight PPP, Malnaro plus three, d 897 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: Triple C Targeting Malnaro plus three. And then ultimately, so 898 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,400 Speaker 1: every single poll leading up to this election had the 899 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: Republican winning, and then the Democrat ends up winning, and 900 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, it was fairly close, but it wasn't so 901 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: close that it's like going to a recount and that 902 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: the result is ultimately in doubt here, So that's an 903 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 1: interesting dynamic as well. Yeah, it certainly is, and I 904 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: think it speaks to this question of turnout. I mean, 905 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: I looked at the turnout in this New York nineteenth 906 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,319 Speaker 1: special election. I mean it looked like something like one 907 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty or one hundred and forty thousand people 908 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: showed up to vote in a late August special election. 909 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that there were really competitive 910 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,480 Speaker 1: primaries at the top of the ballot that those same 911 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: people might have been showing up to vote in. Otherwise, 912 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,200 Speaker 1: I think that they managed to get the message out 913 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,600 Speaker 1: pretty effectively. And in terms of the polling, the only 914 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,839 Speaker 1: caveat I have to offer on that is that I 915 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: do know I was familiar with like one or two 916 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: of those polling figures. Yeah, it does sort of look 917 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: like it tightened over time, and so I wonder if 918 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,360 Speaker 1: the trend line itself was accurate. I mean, the although 919 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: I mean that data for Progress one came out literally 920 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: on election day is when I saw that, and it 921 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: had Elenoro plus eight. But well, let's turn to some 922 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: of the city districts. There was a lot of devon 923 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,400 Speaker 1: dem violence in these primaries because you had, you know, 924 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: the whole map is being redrawn, so you had incumbents 925 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: versus incumbents. You had the Sean Patrick Maloney, the head 926 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: of the D tripleC, the Democratic Campaign Congressional Committee, sort 927 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: of big footing another incumbent and pushing him out of 928 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,759 Speaker 1: his district. Let's start with one that was I was 929 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: actually quite shocked at how lopsided the result was Carolyn 930 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: Maloney and Jerry Nadler, and also a third candidate named 931 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,400 Speaker 1: Saraj Patel who has challenged Carolyn Maloney in the past. 932 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,880 Speaker 1: They were drawn together into this district that put the 933 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 1: Upper east Side and the Upper West Side in one 934 00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 1: district together. And they're both longtime incumbents, you know, both 935 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: like have been there a long time, and both you know, 936 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: colleagues for years and years, and I think they both 937 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: chair committees, right, So they're, you know, relatively senior in 938 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: terms of Democratic Party leadership. And they were pitted against 939 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,839 Speaker 1: each other in this primary. Nadler just dominated. I mean, 940 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,560 Speaker 1: it ended up not being close at all. What did 941 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,280 Speaker 1: you think of that one, Dan, It was pretty interesting. 942 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 1: I spoke to Nadler and Patel yesterday that Maloney didn't 943 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,000 Speaker 1: make herself available to the press, and I got a 944 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,960 Speaker 1: chance to talk to some voters as well. When you 945 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: look at the dynamics of the race and who Nadler 946 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,799 Speaker 1: is and who Maloney is, I think Nadler just has 947 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,200 Speaker 1: a very very clear and strong brand as sort of 948 00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 1: this loyally liberal. He's the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, 949 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: much like in the New York's tenth congressional district just 950 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,239 Speaker 1: below it, where the winner was a guy who was 951 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: seen as sort of a Democratic Party hero visa v. Trump. 952 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,840 Speaker 1: Jerry Nadler obviously was heavily involved in investigations against Trump 953 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,399 Speaker 1: in sort of the impeachment process. I also think that 954 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: the Upper West Side and generally the West Side of 955 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,040 Speaker 1: Manhattan tends to be has a higher voting rate than 956 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:21,759 Speaker 1: the Upper east Side and tends to be extremely politically engaged. 957 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,359 Speaker 1: It's a bit more left leaning. Though the Upper east 958 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,880 Speaker 1: Side used to be sort of a moderate Republican ridout. 959 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: They called it sort of the silk Stocking district yea, 960 00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 1: but now it's sort of just regular rank and file Democrats. 961 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,879 Speaker 1: But it leans just a bit more affluent, a bit 962 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 1: more traditional, a bit more conservative. I know, the Breaking 963 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,799 Speaker 1: Points producer James Lynch is from there. You know, I'm 964 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,239 Speaker 1: sure he could confirm what I'm saying, but so I 965 00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,439 Speaker 1: think that's one dynamic. Another dynamic is that she had 966 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,320 Speaker 1: basically already shown that she just wasn't great at running 967 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: a campaign, because Patel had run against her twice before, 968 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: and he actually, in a crowded field, held her to 969 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,600 Speaker 1: just a four point win. Last time. He had hammered 970 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,480 Speaker 1: her for her sort of history of vaccine skepticism. She 971 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,279 Speaker 1: was somebody who had amplified sort of saying I'm having 972 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,920 Speaker 1: a just asking questions approach to the link between childhood 973 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: vaccines and autism. She used her position in hearings to 974 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,760 Speaker 1: sort of give a platform to some of these folks. 975 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: Patel had really initiated that and put that on the 976 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 1: map last cycle as open Vaccine was coming online, and 977 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 1: then Nadler really took it to a new height by 978 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,240 Speaker 1: red boxing it and sort of a red box obviously 979 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,680 Speaker 1: being the way that candidates signaled to super PACs without 980 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 1: directly communicating with them, saying, voters need to know that 981 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,439 Speaker 1: Carolyn Maloney is a vaccine skeptic and a super pac 982 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,040 Speaker 1: did come in spend a couple hundred grands lasting that 983 00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:00,040 Speaker 1: out there, and then I think I think nat The 984 00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,680 Speaker 1: selling point was I'm a good liberal. I opposed the 985 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,319 Speaker 1: Iraq war. She supported it. I supported the Iran nuclear deal. 986 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,799 Speaker 1: Even though I'm Jewish and she's not. She opposed it. 987 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,280 Speaker 1: And and and essentially saying that that he, you know, 988 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,280 Speaker 1: he wanted to continue the progress that he had made, 989 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: that that he's this sort of fierce, loyally kind of opponent. 990 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,400 Speaker 1: If you look at her messaging, it was all, you 991 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: can't send a man to do a woman's job, say 992 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: no to the old boys club. And in the very 993 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,760 Speaker 1: end it was that it was really nasty. It was 994 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,880 Speaker 1: like that Natler senile. Now, he did have some sort 995 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:41,440 Speaker 1: of infirm moments. Having been around Carolyn Maloney, I'm not 996 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,240 Speaker 1: sure she's really a position to make this case. Maybe 997 00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,640 Speaker 1: someone could, but I'm not sure she's the one that's right. 998 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 1: Somebody actually said to me, it's it's the pot calling 999 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,520 Speaker 1: the kettle black there. So yeah, I mean, these are 1000 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: both thirty year veterans of Congress in their mid seventies. 1001 00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: I do think this does raise again once again issues 1002 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,960 Speaker 1: ofmocratic party toir intocracy. Yeah, but ultimately it was an 1003 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: interesting one. And though Jerry Nadler is not sort of 1004 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,920 Speaker 1: a hardcore left guy. I think that the sort of 1005 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:16,360 Speaker 1: institutional left had rallied around him, seeing him as the best. Okay, 1006 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,640 Speaker 1: so let's talk about the one that you referenced that 1007 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,560 Speaker 1: included parts of Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn, which was this 1008 00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,560 Speaker 1: relatively wide open primary. You have this guy named Dan Goldman. 1009 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: He's wealthy, heir to the Levi Strauss fortune, will be 1010 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,400 Speaker 1: one of the wealthiest members of Congress, very sort of 1011 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,800 Speaker 1: like you know, standard issue resistance liberal type of Democrat. 1012 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,080 Speaker 1: Came to prominence because he was a lawyer on the 1013 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:47,440 Speaker 1: first Trump impeachment and won the backing kind of controversially 1014 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: of the New York Times because he's close with the 1015 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,600 Speaker 1: Salzburg and they didn't disclose that they had a conflict 1016 00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,720 Speaker 1: of interest, so they put their they put their finger 1017 00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: on the scale heavily in favor of Dan go And 1018 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: then you had a number of you know, more progressive 1019 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:10,520 Speaker 1: candidates also vying for this seat, including notably Mandare Jones, 1020 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: who was a Squad member who was kind of bigfooted 1021 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,560 Speaker 1: and pushed out of his district by Jean Patrick Maloney 1022 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,680 Speaker 1: that squatted we'll say squad adjacent. Yeah, I mean, he's 1023 00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,760 Speaker 1: ended up being in my view rather even more disappointing 1024 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,840 Speaker 1: than I've been in some of the other squad members. 1025 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: And part of why he decided to run in this 1026 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 1: district is because, you know, he thought it would be 1027 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 1: sort of easier in the general election to win, and 1028 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,320 Speaker 1: he didn't really want to go up against Jean Patrick Maloney, 1029 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,720 Speaker 1: which could have been a more interesting primary, so he 1030 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: jumps into this race. There was another progressive candidate, Carlina 1031 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: Rivera is her name correct? So ultimately you Leen knew 1032 00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:56,120 Speaker 1: who represents uh part of this Lowermanhattan district already in 1033 00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 1: the state legislature. The race has not been called to 1034 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: my right, it's still very very close. Actually the Associated 1035 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Press did call it okay, so, but yeah, so ended 1036 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: up being very close, which you know, calls into question 1037 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,040 Speaker 1: if Monday Jones had run for a differency, if the 1038 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: left had been able to consolidate behind a single candidate, 1039 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: what Dan Goldman was able to get twenty some percent 1040 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,400 Speaker 1: of the vote or something like that in this district. 1041 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 1: It seems like there was an opportunity here for a 1042 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: more left candidate that didn't come together. Thanks to the 1043 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,560 Speaker 1: New York Times and also thanks to the inability of 1044 01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,640 Speaker 1: the left to consolidate around one candidate. Yeah. We saw 1045 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,160 Speaker 1: this most prominently in last year's New York City mayor's race, 1046 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:44,480 Speaker 1: where there were essentially three contenders of one left leaning 1047 01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:48,760 Speaker 1: flavor or another who took a long time to consolidate. 1048 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,400 Speaker 1: I think we saw a similar effect though in the 1049 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: end that when the progressive segment of the elector has 1050 01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,880 Speaker 1: sort of got a very clear message in the final day, 1051 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,800 Speaker 1: is that this is the person you need to turn to. 1052 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 1: In that case, it was male Wiley. In this case 1053 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: it's Juleen knew there was some consolidation effect, but the 1054 01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,640 Speaker 1: mere fact that there were so many candidates sort of 1055 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,320 Speaker 1: claim laying claim to that lane in one form or another, 1056 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:21,760 Speaker 1: is absolutely an indictment of the progressive ecosystem in New 1057 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,600 Speaker 1: York City, which, as we'll talk about later, has which 1058 01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: would considerably in just four or five years time, but 1059 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,080 Speaker 1: it's still really not quite capable of sort of laying 1060 01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,480 Speaker 1: down the lawn and reading reading the Riot Act to 1061 01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:40,080 Speaker 1: individual candidates. This was obviously a very difficult circumstance. The 1062 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,560 Speaker 1: state Legislature Democrats map was thrown out in late April. 1063 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 1: There were indicating there was like sort of an initial 1064 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,320 Speaker 1: indication of what the new court ordered map would look 1065 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,120 Speaker 1: like in mid May, and then finally in late May, 1066 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: about a week after that that there was sort of 1067 01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,680 Speaker 1: the final maps. And in that period just of a 1068 01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,480 Speaker 1: few days between when there was sort of a draft 1069 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 1: leaked and when the final maps were released, there was 1070 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,920 Speaker 1: a ton of behind the scenes jockeying, especially on the 1071 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,520 Speaker 1: part of Mondere Jones, who was figuring out not just 1072 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,560 Speaker 1: whether he wanted to run against Sean Patrick Maloney, whose 1073 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:17,280 Speaker 1: home was drawn into Monde's district, and Mondere's home was 1074 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,360 Speaker 1: drawn into Jamal Bowman's district, So this is in terms 1075 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,040 Speaker 1: of residency. These things are complicated. Though Monde did represent 1076 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,680 Speaker 1: a much larger share of the district. It's been reported 1077 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,680 Speaker 1: at this point that Monde looked at that and said, 1078 01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: this is going to be a general election toss up. 1079 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,600 Speaker 1: Biden only carried the new district by about by just 1080 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,959 Speaker 1: over ten points. He's not a sort of He wasn't 1081 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,480 Speaker 1: comporting himself like a frontline member. He was more of 1082 01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,680 Speaker 1: a I mean yeah, ready to run a safe blue seat, 1083 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,720 Speaker 1: right amthetic is that, though that you're afraid of a 1084 01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,880 Speaker 1: Biden plus ten district. Sorry, but and this was I mean, 1085 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,240 Speaker 1: this was Sean Patrick Malone to the district that would 1086 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,040 Speaker 1: have been logical for him to run in, which contained 1087 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,760 Speaker 1: more of his current district, was what Biden plus seven 1088 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,040 Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, this is too hard for me. 1089 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,640 Speaker 1: I got to run in the Biden plus ten district. Ye. 1090 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 1: This is the guy who's supposed to be in charge of, 1091 01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,479 Speaker 1: you know, helping the Democrats keep the House, and he's 1092 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,919 Speaker 1: not even confident enough to win in a Biden plus 1093 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,320 Speaker 1: six or seven district himself. He's got to go and 1094 01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,880 Speaker 1: jump into the Biden plus ten district. Yeah, very very bizarre, 1095 01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,440 Speaker 1: And certainly in that brief one week period where there 1096 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,160 Speaker 1: was this jostling, he took a ton of heat for that. 1097 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,280 Speaker 1: I mean Richie Torres from the Bronx again, who is 1098 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, maybe a mainstream liberal and but is not 1099 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 1: does not really have a relationship with the organized left, 1100 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,480 Speaker 1: was hitting him very hard because Richie Torres and Monts 1101 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,200 Speaker 1: are the first two openly gay black members, and Coloni 1102 01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 1: is gay, but he's white and wealthy and moderate. It's 1103 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,400 Speaker 1: hard to think, you know, what a counterfactual would look 1104 01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:09,880 Speaker 1: like where Monde Jones stays in this sort of prosecutes 1105 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,440 Speaker 1: this kind of case against Maloney, that he's put himself 1106 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,680 Speaker 1: above the party. He's uh, he's nudged out sort of 1107 01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:23,640 Speaker 1: a path breaking black progressive. And does Maloney even, you know, 1108 01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,600 Speaker 1: say to that, Eh, actually, I'll go to New York eighteenth, 1109 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, the one that I'm currently Only that's a possibility. 1110 01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,640 Speaker 1: We'll never be able to know. I think certainly Mondere's 1111 01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:38,120 Speaker 1: legacy on the left would be would be less tarnished. Uh, 1112 01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:43,040 Speaker 1: and and and and there would be he would at 1113 01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,040 Speaker 1: least have everybody rally to his side against Sir Patrick 1114 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,040 Speaker 1: Maloney and then as a frontliner. I mean, look, Katie 1115 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,400 Speaker 1: Porter manages to do it. I mean, she walks a 1116 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,560 Speaker 1: more careful line out in Orange County, California, but it 1117 01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,400 Speaker 1: is not absolutely unheard of. Hasn't been, I mean, to 1118 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,120 Speaker 1: my chagrin, and he hasn't been the real like bombs. 1119 01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,400 Speaker 1: He's tried to, in a lot of ways kind of 1120 01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:10,760 Speaker 1: walk a more establishment friendly line. So he's the freshman 1121 01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,480 Speaker 1: represent he's the representative for the freshman class to Democratic 1122 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:19,920 Speaker 1: House leadership. And I think that really tells you that 1123 01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: he saw himself as being the guy in the room 1124 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: with Pelosi but you know, now, I happen to think 1125 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,600 Speaker 1: that that works in the suburbs. But yeah, it works 1126 01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,360 Speaker 1: in the suburbs, So stick in the suburbs, right, And 1127 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,640 Speaker 1: it turns out that New York City people are pretty 1128 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,600 Speaker 1: damn parochial. I mean, I heard it a lot like 1129 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,560 Speaker 1: he says he was. You know, he likes the village 1130 01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,480 Speaker 1: because he's gay and it was important to him as 1131 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: a young person. That doesn't mean you know the village, 1132 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, that doesn't mean that it felt like he 1133 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,120 Speaker 1: was kind of a carpetbagger, which he kind of was. 1134 01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sympathetic too. I was very sympathetic to 1135 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,040 Speaker 1: him when Jean Patrick Boloney did this and really did 1136 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,320 Speaker 1: this to both him and Paul Bowman and put both 1137 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,200 Speaker 1: of them potentially in a difficult situation. I know, jabal 1138 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:05,440 Speaker 1: Buman ultimately he had a primary challenge that he was 1139 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,200 Speaker 1: able to easily dispatch with. But yeah, I mean, now, 1140 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,520 Speaker 1: you like sort of sold out the left when you 1141 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,000 Speaker 1: were in Congress, and then you screwed over the left 1142 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: in terms of winning this Lower Manhattan Brooklyn seat. So 1143 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,760 Speaker 1: I think there are going to be some reflections and 1144 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,680 Speaker 1: some hard feelings there. And then on the other hand, 1145 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,280 Speaker 1: the district that Jean Patrick Maloney did run in, he 1146 01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:30,000 Speaker 1: was challenged by someone who's considered kind of a progressive 1147 01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:34,400 Speaker 1: rising star, Alessandro Viaggi, who had taken out a long 1148 01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,920 Speaker 1: time incumbent state senator who was aligned with that like 1149 01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: breakoff Democratic group that was coxing with the Republicans and 1150 01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,680 Speaker 1: keeping their majority, says. So she was able to beat 1151 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:46,840 Speaker 1: that person, I think in twenty eighteen. So she was 1152 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,280 Speaker 1: kind of a rising star, but not able to even 1153 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,800 Speaker 1: come close to getting a gut done against Jean Patrick 1154 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,680 Speaker 1: Maloney in this very suburban district, which is, you know, 1155 01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 1: sort of like Clinton territory. She'd beat Bernie in this district. 1156 01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,360 Speaker 1: She and Bill actually live in this district in Chappaqua. 1157 01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:05,400 Speaker 1: So too many hurdles for Alessandro or Biaggi to overcome there. 1158 01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,080 Speaker 1: And I know that's a race you were covering carefully too, Dan, Yeah, absolutely. 1159 01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a person who was endorsed by AOC. 1160 01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:17,480 Speaker 1: I mean when AOC one in June twenty eighteen. The 1161 01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,840 Speaker 1: state legislative primaries were a couple months later in September, 1162 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,720 Speaker 1: and that's when Cynthia Nixon ran against Cuomo as well, 1163 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:28,160 Speaker 1: and at that point, this breakaway faction of eight state 1164 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,520 Speaker 1: Senate Democrats had actually disbanded. Cuomo did it to sort 1165 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,960 Speaker 1: of protect his left flank. He sort of said, okay, guys, 1166 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,640 Speaker 1: enough of this shtick. I don't need you there anymore, 1167 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,120 Speaker 1: sort of blocking progressive legislation. Now I'm running against the left. 1168 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,520 Speaker 1: Challenger got to quit it. But the Working Families Party 1169 01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,320 Speaker 1: and a lot of other folks on the left basically 1170 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,520 Speaker 1: said we're not forgetting and they ran eight candidates against 1171 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,840 Speaker 1: these sort of x independent Democratic Conference members, this wrote 1172 01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:59,360 Speaker 1: rogue faction, and one six of those races, hers was 1173 01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,040 Speaker 1: the highest pro file. I mean because the guy that 1174 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,360 Speaker 1: she took on was the former leader of that group. 1175 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: He'd also been accused of forcibly kissing a staffer, and 1176 01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,360 Speaker 1: she beat it that person out. The person had a 1177 01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: much higher fundraising hall. And Biagi has an interesting trajectory. 1178 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean, she worked for the Hillary Clinton campaign in 1179 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,560 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, and then she worked for the Cuomo administration, 1180 01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,400 Speaker 1: and she became disillusioned because she learned about the IDC 1181 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,160 Speaker 1: and all that, and subsequent to that she really did 1182 01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,680 Speaker 1: become part of this new crop of hardcore progressives. I 1183 01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: don't think she identifies as a socialist, but I think 1184 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,680 Speaker 1: that she worked very closely with people like Julia Salazar, 1185 01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,519 Speaker 1: who is a socialist, to do things like strength and 1186 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,920 Speaker 1: tenant protections, one of the things that I did look at. 1187 01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't talk about this rates without noting 1188 01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,800 Speaker 1: that Biagi had to move in order to or she 1189 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,679 Speaker 1: did move to run there. She bought very nice house 1190 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,760 Speaker 1: in Bedford, New York, which is again of that sort 1191 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,640 Speaker 1: of Chappaquid by the way, that Clinton Clintonian sort of 1192 01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,799 Speaker 1: nice Westchester area. That's the most democratic part of the district. 1193 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,920 Speaker 1: So there are other counties brought by the river go 1194 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,439 Speaker 1: for the Putnam and part of Duchess start getting into 1195 01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,639 Speaker 1: even some trumpy territory there. But she so she had 1196 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,560 Speaker 1: that issue that she didn't have these ready made relationships. 1197 01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,840 Speaker 1: There were a ton of progressives who were early opponents 1198 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 1: of this rogue Democratic faction in the State Senate and 1199 01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,760 Speaker 1: early supporters of mondere Jones, including people who told me 1200 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:40,280 Speaker 1: they would have supported Mondae against Maloney, people like sort 1201 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,679 Speaker 1: of state center Elijah Reglenn Melnick Crochton mayor Brian Pugh. 1202 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,920 Speaker 1: These are people who were basically overall progressive. They might 1203 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,800 Speaker 1: be called more of the soft progressives than this sort 1204 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,120 Speaker 1: of the hardcore progressives, and they basically said, we don't 1205 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,560 Speaker 1: know her, we don't have a relationship with her. H 1206 01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,040 Speaker 1: and they were nervous about her general election prospects. And 1207 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 1: one of the reasons they were nervous about that is 1208 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,120 Speaker 1: two tweets she put out in sort of the aftermath 1209 01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,599 Speaker 1: of George Floyd's killing in twenty twenty one, essentially saying, 1210 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 1: what do we mean by defund the police? Well read 1211 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:16,640 Speaker 1: this article wasn't like the most outright endorsement of the 1212 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,040 Speaker 1: defund slogan, but it's there on the record. And then 1213 01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,200 Speaker 1: the bigger deal was that she posted a video of 1214 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:27,679 Speaker 1: Philly cops engaging an act of brutality against a woman 1215 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,800 Speaker 1: in front of her child and said, the police in 1216 01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:36,280 Speaker 1: this country are soulless. You could see how frankly, look 1217 01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,400 Speaker 1: what we've seen city wide in New York City. I 1218 01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,240 Speaker 1: think that message would have a really hard time playing 1219 01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,360 Speaker 1: at this point in time, with the uptick and crime 1220 01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,519 Speaker 1: and the backlash and things like that. I think it 1221 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,600 Speaker 1: would do well and sort of the it would be 1222 01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,679 Speaker 1: fine and sort of the socialist redoubts of Northwest Queens 1223 01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 1: and Northwest Brooklyn, and we can get into that when 1224 01:10:55,439 --> 01:11:01,040 Speaker 1: we talk about the socialists, but that's I cannot think 1225 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,640 Speaker 1: of a single instance of somebody with that kind of 1226 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:09,360 Speaker 1: baggage winning a general election in what is sort of 1227 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:15,680 Speaker 1: a suburban light blue and a potentially tough year as well. Well, 1228 01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,320 Speaker 1: I do want to talk about I think this is 1229 01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,960 Speaker 1: the last piece I want to talk about some of 1230 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:25,840 Speaker 1: the socialist or socialist aligned victories because I think this 1231 01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,679 Speaker 1: was the biggest bright spot, at least for the left. 1232 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,920 Speaker 1: Who you know, there were some missed opportunities at the 1233 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:36,479 Speaker 1: federal level, but in terms of the state legislature, quite 1234 01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:43,400 Speaker 1: actually a dominant showing from the DSA left in New York. Here. Yeah, 1235 01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:48,360 Speaker 1: we saw some folks sort of takeover new districts. That 1236 01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,920 Speaker 1: would be people at Christen Gonzales in Northwest Queens. She 1237 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,400 Speaker 1: happens to be an employee of American Express, but she 1238 01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:01,639 Speaker 1: is a totally a total democratic socialist and I think 1239 01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:05,240 Speaker 1: will join this crop that I think we could see 1240 01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,640 Speaker 1: getting close to ten people who are identify as democratic 1241 01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: Socialists in the New York State legislature, and prior to 1242 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:16,519 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen it was zero. So and other people held 1243 01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:20,559 Speaker 1: their spots, people like Jabari Brisport in Brooklyn who had 1244 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,200 Speaker 1: a challenger. There were other progressives, and I think it's 1245 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,479 Speaker 1: important to note Dan that a lot of these folks, 1246 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:30,799 Speaker 1: I know, Jabari Brisport's opponent in particular, were backed by 1247 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,439 Speaker 1: Mayor Adams. So this was kind of a power play 1248 01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,200 Speaker 1: from Mayor Eric Adams to put his stamp on the 1249 01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:41,040 Speaker 1: legislature and push out some of the further left factions 1250 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,920 Speaker 1: that he disagrees with and did not work out well 1251 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,559 Speaker 1: for him. Kind of also a demonstration of his political 1252 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,599 Speaker 1: weakness right now. I think it is. I think what 1253 01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,280 Speaker 1: we've seen is that the power of the machine has 1254 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:59,840 Speaker 1: gotten and sort of just general traditional patronage politics, whether 1255 01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,559 Speaker 1: in New York City or places like Pittsburgh. I've covered 1256 01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,400 Speaker 1: that a lot. It has gotten a lot weaker at 1257 01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:09,640 Speaker 1: the local and state level, where the kind of organizing 1258 01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:15,320 Speaker 1: that DSA does very effectively door knocking, changing margin being 1259 01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,120 Speaker 1: able to move margins of votes in the hundreds right 1260 01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:23,519 Speaker 1: rather than the thousands, remains really powerful. And perhaps also 1261 01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,599 Speaker 1: because at the state and local level, when it comes 1262 01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:32,200 Speaker 1: to issues like housing and protecting renters, rental protections, those 1263 01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:36,080 Speaker 1: are easier sells and you don't sort of get into 1264 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,559 Speaker 1: the kind of federal realm of oh, what does this 1265 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,720 Speaker 1: person think about Trump, or even the policing issues as much, 1266 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,280 Speaker 1: which tend to be more local. So I should say 1267 01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,680 Speaker 1: maybe just at the state legislative level. I think that 1268 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:53,040 Speaker 1: there was a really interesting race as well in the 1269 01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:57,880 Speaker 1: Bronx where Gustavo Rivera went up again He's a progressive, 1270 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,280 Speaker 1: not a socialist, but very firm aligned with those folks, 1271 01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,479 Speaker 1: went up against sort of a Bronx machine candidate also 1272 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:08,000 Speaker 1: endorsed by Adreano espayat So, who is the congressman from 1273 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:13,240 Speaker 1: Upper Manhattan and part of the South Bronx, and he 1274 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,800 Speaker 1: defeated her, including in a district that now has the 1275 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:19,720 Speaker 1: community of Riverdale, which is more affluent, also has a 1276 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,639 Speaker 1: lot of pro Israel voters. I think you did start 1277 01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,120 Speaker 1: to see some outside groups with those pro Israel leanings 1278 01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:31,320 Speaker 1: intervening there. Yeah. I mean, without getting into a case 1279 01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,240 Speaker 1: by case and going into all of the details, I 1280 01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:36,839 Speaker 1: know it does look like in central and South Brooklyn 1281 01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,080 Speaker 1: one of these more sort of centrist Democratic candidates was 1282 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,160 Speaker 1: able to hold on, though that person was an incumbent. 1283 01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:48,040 Speaker 1: Kevin Parker is still heavily neighborhood and region dependent, but 1284 01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,760 Speaker 1: we are sort of seeing a bit of a socialist 1285 01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:58,839 Speaker 1: fertile crescent emerge in Northwest Brooklyn and Northwest Queens along 1286 01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,439 Speaker 1: the water there where a lot of the young people 1287 01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:06,680 Speaker 1: who live there have are just very left leaning, sometimes 1288 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,280 Speaker 1: because they've been priced out of Manhattan and have created 1289 01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:13,680 Speaker 1: these communities there, sometimes just because that's their ideology, and 1290 01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,559 Speaker 1: that's sort of where these seats have come up and 1291 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,759 Speaker 1: been created. Obviously, we know that in Northwest Queen's AOC 1292 01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,559 Speaker 1: is the member of Congress, so that fits. In Northwest 1293 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:30,080 Speaker 1: Brooklyn it's Nitdia of Alaskaz and she obviously went hard 1294 01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,320 Speaker 1: for City council Woman Carlina Rivera in the New York 1295 01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,880 Speaker 1: tenth primary. She's sort of viewed as one of the 1296 01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,960 Speaker 1: older generation of progressive but not going to really stick 1297 01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:43,960 Speaker 1: her neck out against party leadership. If she does ultimately 1298 01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:49,559 Speaker 1: decide to retire or to or frankly, if she sticks 1299 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:53,200 Speaker 1: around too long, I think that's where people will have 1300 01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,479 Speaker 1: their eye on for a new sort of truly left 1301 01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,960 Speaker 1: wing member of columns. Well, I saw Ross Barkin, who 1302 01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,120 Speaker 1: was another friend of the show and also great New 1303 01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:06,160 Speaker 1: York City political observer pointing out that you know, just 1304 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,040 Speaker 1: a few years ago you wouldn't laugh out of the 1305 01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,400 Speaker 1: room if you said the DSA endorsement was gonna matter. 1306 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,879 Speaker 1: So even though you know it's it's very small steps forward, 1307 01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is they're sort of brick 1308 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,240 Speaker 1: by brick building out a real political operation and a 1309 01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:24,160 Speaker 1: real political bench with you know, established legislators who can 1310 01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,840 Speaker 1: then go on and run for those congressional seats and 1311 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,640 Speaker 1: run for higher office. So a lot of very interesting 1312 01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:35,559 Speaker 1: results here. It's never dull and extremely grateful to you, 1313 01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,559 Speaker 1: Dan for helping us understand all of it. Always happy 1314 01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,559 Speaker 1: to be here, Crystal. This was super in depth and yeah, 1315 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,479 Speaker 1: great talent people. Hopefully people got everything they needed to 1316 01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,919 Speaker 1: know out of the Florida and New York primary landscape 1317 01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,400 Speaker 1: and also what it might mean for at the fall. Dan, 1318 01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:54,640 Speaker 1: great to see you and everybody out there. Thank you 1319 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:59,599 Speaker 1: for watching. We're gonna have more for you later. Hey. 1320 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm author of monopoly focused newsletter Big and an anti 1321 01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,600 Speaker 1: trust policy analyst. So for today's Big Breakdown, I'm going 1322 01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,639 Speaker 1: to follow up on an earlier story I did in July, 1323 01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,120 Speaker 1: which is about why this summer has been so bad. 1324 01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,479 Speaker 1: If you're trying to fly somewhere. Now, this is a 1325 01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,320 Speaker 1: little new for me. I'm doing an interview. I'm going 1326 01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,840 Speaker 1: to bring on the nation's foremost expert in airlines and 1327 01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:20,800 Speaker 1: consumer rights, Bill McGee, who is a registered to air 1328 01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,200 Speaker 1: dispatcher and knows the dirty secrets of the industry. So 1329 01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:25,599 Speaker 1: we're going to get into things like why airlines lie 1330 01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,559 Speaker 1: about the weather, why why flights are really canceled, and 1331 01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,160 Speaker 1: how airlines treat VIPs. We're also going to do all 1332 01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:36,040 Speaker 1: the standard stuff regulatory structure and the industry and talk 1333 01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,880 Speaker 1: about pee booda judge and whatnot. Now, the reason for 1334 01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,680 Speaker 1: this segment is simple. Aside from the fact that this 1335 01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,280 Speaker 1: has been the summer of hell for airlines. I just 1336 01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,439 Speaker 1: got back from a trip and Delta Airlines, yes, canceled 1337 01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,040 Speaker 1: my flight. There were some good news in that and 1338 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:52,400 Speaker 1: some bad news. I ended up working out sort of 1339 01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,000 Speaker 1: for me, and I'm going to talk about that in 1340 01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:58,599 Speaker 1: the interview, But the reality is I'm not alone. This weekend, 1341 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,439 Speaker 1: in fact, was pretty bad. About fifteen hundred US flights 1342 01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:06,080 Speaker 1: were canceled. Nearly another eighty four hundred were delayed. American 1343 01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:09,680 Speaker 1: Southwest and United were the hardest hit. Forty percent of 1344 01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,519 Speaker 1: Americans flights were delayed forty percent of Southwest Now my 1345 01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:16,080 Speaker 1: flight was out of JFK Airport in New York. The 1346 01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,160 Speaker 1: New York region was particularly hard hit. But it's been 1347 01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:21,600 Speaker 1: a bad year, it complains to the Department of Transportation. 1348 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,320 Speaker 1: Up over three hundred percent in April, two hundred percent 1349 01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:26,920 Speaker 1: in May. We don't know the numbers for this summer 1350 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:29,160 Speaker 1: because those haven't come out yet, but it's almost certainly 1351 01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 1: the worst travel summer in our lifetimes. Despite the frustrations 1352 01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:36,639 Speaker 1: of passengers, the Secretary of Transportation Pete budhaj Edge has 1353 01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:40,639 Speaker 1: issued a record low number of aviation enforcement orders this year, 1354 01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,479 Speaker 1: which is to say, you know, just three. He's not 1355 01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:47,400 Speaker 1: regulating the industry particularly hard, even though it's just been 1356 01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:50,320 Speaker 1: kind of a nightmare. Now, for context, under Obama, there were, 1357 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, in the about fifty aviation orders a year 1358 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:56,720 Speaker 1: in the early part of his term, and then you know, 1359 01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,880 Speaker 1: about ten fifteen in a later part of his term. 1360 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,720 Speaker 1: Under Trump it was around ten a year, but under 1361 01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,320 Speaker 1: foothag Jedge it was four last year and three this year. 1362 01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:08,439 Speaker 1: So that's that's really bad. And airlines actually have so 1363 01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,519 Speaker 1: little respect for their main regulator. He Pootah judge that 1364 01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:13,320 Speaker 1: earlier this summer when he went to New York to 1365 01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,920 Speaker 1: talk to the airline CEOs about their poor service, they 1366 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,040 Speaker 1: actually canceled his flight. And we're going to talk to 1367 01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Bill about what that means. So to talk about the situation, 1368 01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:26,000 Speaker 1: I'd like to welcome Bill McGee, who is a Senior 1369 01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,840 Speaker 1: Fellow for Aviation for the American Economic Liberties Project. Now 1370 01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:30,840 Speaker 1: that's actually the think tank that I work for in 1371 01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:35,320 Speaker 1: my day job, and he is also the author of 1372 01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,679 Speaker 1: the excellent book Attentional Passengers, The Truth about the Airline Industry. 1373 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:41,120 Speaker 1: You can find a link to that book in the description. 1374 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:45,640 Speaker 1: Bill is fantastic. He is, you know, he's just so 1375 01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,800 Speaker 1: trustworthy and knows this industry backwards and force. So with that, 1376 01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,200 Speaker 1: I'd like to bring on Bill to have a conversation 1377 01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,360 Speaker 1: about my experience about you know, many of your experiences 1378 01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,479 Speaker 1: and the airline industry in general. Hey, Bill, it is 1379 01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:01,479 Speaker 1: great to talk to you. So we know each other 1380 01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:03,559 Speaker 1: and we're actually colleagues, and I've known you for quite 1381 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,439 Speaker 1: a while and there's no one I trust more on 1382 01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:09,760 Speaker 1: airlines than you. But the audience doesn't know you. And 1383 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm wearing a jacket, which means people trust me, and 1384 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,600 Speaker 1: you're not wearing a jacket, which means you're completely untrustworthy. 1385 01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,200 Speaker 1: So tell the people out there why they should believe 1386 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,920 Speaker 1: what you have to say? What's your background in the industry? 1387 01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:23,120 Speaker 1: Who are you should? I wait for Matt to come 1388 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:24,920 Speaker 1: in after this guy in the jacket leaves. How are 1389 01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:28,720 Speaker 1: we doing this? Hello, Matt, it's great to see you. 1390 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:34,000 Speaker 1: As always, I make the jokes here. Oh, sorry about that, 1391 01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,200 Speaker 1: I forgot the rules. Okay, what you want to know 1392 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:40,639 Speaker 1: my background? Okay? So I have been around this airline industry, 1393 01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:44,479 Speaker 1: in it, writing about it, advocating about it, working in 1394 01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:46,920 Speaker 1: it for thirty seven years, which is kind of frightening, 1395 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,320 Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty five. So I spent seven years working 1396 01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,760 Speaker 1: in the belly of the beast. I didn't work in 1397 01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:57,280 Speaker 1: marketing or corporate communications. I worked in flight operations. So 1398 01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:59,160 Speaker 1: when your flight was canceled, there was a good chance 1399 01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,559 Speaker 1: I was the guy that did it to you. But 1400 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,200 Speaker 1: I had good reasons. Trust me. So I'm happy to 1401 01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,200 Speaker 1: walk you through what I used to do and how 1402 01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,200 Speaker 1: airlines work. And I think you know it was a 1403 01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:13,280 Speaker 1: great It was great training for me. For first I 1404 01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:16,200 Speaker 1: became a journalist writing about the industry, and then I 1405 01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:20,280 Speaker 1: became an advocate, advocating for passengers, and I have been 1406 01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:23,360 Speaker 1: inside it, as I said, and I think I know 1407 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:27,040 Speaker 1: pretty much when the airlines are lying, and I know 1408 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,920 Speaker 1: when they're saying things that are half truths, and I 1409 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,200 Speaker 1: know when they're mistreating us, and unfortunately, these days they're 1410 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,639 Speaker 1: mistreating us quite a bit. Okay, so this summer's been 1411 01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:42,600 Speaker 1: really bad. So why are things like so bad? Is 1412 01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,040 Speaker 1: it unusual? And just like how bad? Is it? Just 1413 01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:49,639 Speaker 1: just a quick context. There's no question in my mind 1414 01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:51,880 Speaker 1: that this is the worst airline for customer service in 1415 01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:54,960 Speaker 1: the history of the US airline industry. Uh shit, sorry, 1416 01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,519 Speaker 1: worst airline, I said, what's summer? Sorry, There's no question 1417 01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:01,840 Speaker 1: in my mind that this is the worst summer for 1418 01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,400 Speaker 1: customer service in the history of the US airline industry 1419 01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,800 Speaker 1: and the entire one hundred and eight year history since 1420 01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen. I've spoken to many old timers who worked 1421 01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,599 Speaker 1: in the industry much longer than May, and I asked them, all, 1422 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,200 Speaker 1: have you ever seen anything like this? And they have 1423 01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,720 Speaker 1: said no. And I think it's not just opinion. I 1424 01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,000 Speaker 1: think it can be documented. We've never seen the level 1425 01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,360 Speaker 1: of flight cancelations and flight disruptions, as the industry calls 1426 01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:28,080 Speaker 1: it extended delays that we've seen this summer. But worse 1427 01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:32,160 Speaker 1: than that, we've never seen so many cancelations that took 1428 01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,200 Speaker 1: place at the last minute. And that's the part that's 1429 01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,640 Speaker 1: absolutely unforgivable, and that's what's inexcusable on the part of 1430 01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,360 Speaker 1: the airlines, and that's what's inexcusable on the part of 1431 01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:43,639 Speaker 1: Secretary footag judge at the DOT for allowing it to happen. Well, okay, 1432 01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:47,200 Speaker 1: so now I've been i'd write about this, talk about this, 1433 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,519 Speaker 1: and one of the things that I hear is and 1434 01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,880 Speaker 1: actually I just had a flight canceled, as you know, 1435 01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:54,719 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things you hear is 1436 01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:58,000 Speaker 1: is weather. Right are they staffing shortages in weather? And 1437 01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:00,360 Speaker 1: a lot of times people are like, well, what do 1438 01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,760 Speaker 1: you expect? You know, the airlines can't control the weather, 1439 01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,720 Speaker 1: and you know, or Secretary Booha Didge can't control the weather. 1440 01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:10,000 Speaker 1: This is just a thing that happens. So is you know, 1441 01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:15,360 Speaker 1: walk walk me through, walk us through how airlines interact 1442 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,120 Speaker 1: with the weather. Weather. That's a real excuse and how 1443 01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:21,800 Speaker 1: that all works. Sure, So this is what I used 1444 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,000 Speaker 1: to do for a living. I'm licensed by the Federal 1445 01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,360 Speaker 1: Aviation Administration as an aircraft dispatcher. That meant I worked 1446 01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,640 Speaker 1: for an airline. I created the flight plans and in 1447 01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,519 Speaker 1: real time on a ten hour shift, I would talk 1448 01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:34,680 Speaker 1: to the airplanes, get them through their flights, talk to 1449 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,360 Speaker 1: air traffic control, make sure everything went well, and then 1450 01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:40,160 Speaker 1: troubleshoot when there were problems. And I can tell you 1451 01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:42,000 Speaker 1: I know all about weather. I had to go through 1452 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,679 Speaker 1: a six month training course. I had more meteorology training 1453 01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,200 Speaker 1: than commercial pilots. That's how the FAA requires for dispatchers 1454 01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,719 Speaker 1: because we have to flight plan through all the weather. 1455 01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,519 Speaker 1: I know about thunderstorms, I know about blizzards. And my 1456 01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:59,040 Speaker 1: nickname when I worked in airline flight operations was B. C. McGee. 1457 01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,719 Speaker 1: It didn't stand for Bill, it stood for black Cloud 1458 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,760 Speaker 1: McGee because I was notorious for bringing bad weather with me. 1459 01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:08,160 Speaker 1: If I had three days off, everything was golden, and 1460 01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:10,160 Speaker 1: then as soon as I came back, the thunderstorms would 1461 01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:12,639 Speaker 1: start or the blizzards would start, and people hated working 1462 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:17,320 Speaker 1: with me. They would reassign themselves. So what I used 1463 01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:19,639 Speaker 1: to have to do was cancel flights. At the last 1464 01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:22,840 Speaker 1: minute because of weather, because of air traffic control, and look, 1465 01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,559 Speaker 1: that's a factor, It's always been a factor. I don't 1466 01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,080 Speaker 1: know that technology will ever get to a point where 1467 01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:31,360 Speaker 1: commercial aviation will not be affected by weather and air 1468 01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,479 Speaker 1: traffic control issues. We may someday. We're certainly not there now, 1469 01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,680 Speaker 1: but that is not what we're talking about in the 1470 01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,840 Speaker 1: big picture in twenty twenty two. I can't stress this enough. 1471 01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,080 Speaker 1: The airlines have been saying for months every time their 1472 01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:47,960 Speaker 1: reporters asked them about these massive cancelations, and we are 1473 01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:50,720 Speaker 1: talking tens of thousands of flights have been canceled just 1474 01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,439 Speaker 1: since Memorial Day, and they are saying, weather an air 1475 01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,640 Speaker 1: traffic control are those factors? Sure, They're always going to 1476 01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,240 Speaker 1: be factors. I mean, here's a news flash. There are 1477 01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,080 Speaker 1: thunderstorms in Texas in the summer right where there are 1478 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,720 Speaker 1: several hubs in Dallas and Houston. Right there's snow in 1479 01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:12,320 Speaker 1: Chicago in January. Good airlines know how to deal with 1480 01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,160 Speaker 1: these situations, and they work around them, and they treat 1481 01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,440 Speaker 1: their customers well. What we are seeing is a complete meltdown. 1482 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,160 Speaker 1: We're seeing that airlines are a not being truthful in 1483 01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:26,639 Speaker 1: blaming weather for conditions that obviously it's not about weather 1484 01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,519 Speaker 1: and it's not about air traffic control. I mean, so, 1485 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,479 Speaker 1: just so you're saying that when you hear your flight's 1486 01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,200 Speaker 1: canceled because of whether the airline may not be telling 1487 01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:37,759 Speaker 1: the truth, is that what you're saying. There's no question, 1488 01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,360 Speaker 1: there's no question there is a problem here. You know, 1489 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:44,719 Speaker 1: the Department of Transportation compiles statistics sevy months on airline 1490 01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,920 Speaker 1: flight delays, flight cancelations, all kinds of things. But let's 1491 01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,240 Speaker 1: remember this is a self reporting system. When I worked 1492 01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,240 Speaker 1: in the airlines, I can tell you for a fact 1493 01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:57,360 Speaker 1: that airlines fudge numbers on delays, and it's hard to 1494 01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:01,160 Speaker 1: fudge cancelations, but on delays, and they certainly fudge causes 1495 01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:04,000 Speaker 1: of delays. Now why is that important? It's not just 1496 01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:06,120 Speaker 1: a matter of truthfulness. You want to know why your 1497 01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:09,160 Speaker 1: flight was canceled. If you're told by an airline that 1498 01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:12,000 Speaker 1: it's due to weather. In the United States, that is 1499 01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:15,439 Speaker 1: a big deal. Why is your flight delayed due to weather? 1500 01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,400 Speaker 1: Because if you look at what the airlines call a 1501 01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,680 Speaker 1: contract of carriage, what they will do for you in 1502 01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:25,600 Speaker 1: terms of compensation and in terms of accommodations, is is 1503 01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,800 Speaker 1: directly related to what the cause of the delay is. 1504 01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:30,720 Speaker 1: So in other words, a weather delay is what the 1505 01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,759 Speaker 1: airlines called a force major or an act of God, 1506 01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,720 Speaker 1: and therefore they usually wipe their hands of any kind 1507 01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:41,680 Speaker 1: of meals or hotels or any kind of accommodations for you. Now, 1508 01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:43,599 Speaker 1: the one rule the DOT has is if the flight 1509 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,840 Speaker 1: is canceled for any reason, then you're entitled to a refund. 1510 01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:50,559 Speaker 1: So that's what happened to me. I mean the flight 1511 01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:54,240 Speaker 1: they said it was weather and they and therefore they 1512 01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:56,759 Speaker 1: were like, well, we don't you have to stay overnight, 1513 01:26:56,800 --> 01:26:58,160 Speaker 1: but we don't have to take care of the hotel 1514 01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:01,720 Speaker 1: for you and so, and that was because it was 1515 01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,000 Speaker 1: a weather delay. And I don't know if it was 1516 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,040 Speaker 1: a weather daiay or not. My people I know in 1517 01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:07,320 Speaker 1: New York said the weather was basically fine. But you know, 1518 01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm not a meteorologist or anything. But you know that 1519 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:13,560 Speaker 1: was in the contract of carriage it said, okay, you 1520 01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,240 Speaker 1: are entitled to a hotel vulture unless it's a weather shoe. 1521 01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,759 Speaker 1: So you're saying that they're misleading people about the reason 1522 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:22,800 Speaker 1: for the delay so that they don't have to pay 1523 01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,800 Speaker 1: for meals in hotels and things like that. So if 1524 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:27,439 Speaker 1: you're a consumer, like what should you do if you 1525 01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:30,160 Speaker 1: have a flight canceled? Like should you complain to the dot? 1526 01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,800 Speaker 1: Should you like you? What can you do? You can't 1527 01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:35,920 Speaker 1: do much, but it is important to do what you 1528 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:38,560 Speaker 1: can because, unfortunately, this is the wild West in the 1529 01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,599 Speaker 1: United States. Unlike the European Union, where there are strict 1530 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,000 Speaker 1: regulations on how passengers have to be treated during delays 1531 01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,680 Speaker 1: and cancelations and if they're involuntarily bumped, here in the 1532 01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:51,720 Speaker 1: United States we are dependent on the airlines themselves. So 1533 01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,719 Speaker 1: they have these contracts of carriage, which lawyers call contracts 1534 01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,000 Speaker 1: of adhesion because they're one sided. They're written by and 1535 01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,479 Speaker 1: for the airlines, and you're agreeing to them. And I've 1536 01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:00,920 Speaker 1: had people say to me, I didn't agree to it. 1537 01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah you did. When you swipe your credit card and 1538 01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:04,760 Speaker 1: you bought a ticket, you agreed to what could be 1539 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,880 Speaker 1: a two hundred page document. Contracts a carriage are a mess. 1540 01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:13,200 Speaker 1: They're one sided. They are written in the airlines behalf 1541 01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:15,200 Speaker 1: and not in your behalf. They're filled with legal ease, 1542 01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,679 Speaker 1: and worst of all, they have what I call mushy language. 1543 01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,160 Speaker 1: They have terms in there. They'll say, well, we may 1544 01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,280 Speaker 1: do this. I mean, any lawyer will tell you a 1545 01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:26,160 Speaker 1: contract with the word may doesn't mean much. So it says, 1546 01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,559 Speaker 1: if your flight is delayed extensively for four hours or more, 1547 01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,360 Speaker 1: we may give you a hotel. What good is that? 1548 01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:35,120 Speaker 1: What does may mean? It's because the dirty little secret 1549 01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:37,880 Speaker 1: of the airline industry is this is an America. We're 1550 01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:39,720 Speaker 1: not all created equal as far as the airlines go. 1551 01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:42,960 Speaker 1: Each passenger on that plane has a different value based 1552 01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: on all kinds of algorithms that we don't even know 1553 01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:48,840 Speaker 1: half of it, probably because they are tracking how we booked, 1554 01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:50,920 Speaker 1: when we booked, where we booked, how much we paid, 1555 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,480 Speaker 1: how often we book how often we're on that airline, 1556 01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:57,000 Speaker 1: and then they have this, you know, computer driven algorithm. 1557 01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:58,400 Speaker 1: So if you and I are sitting right next to 1558 01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:00,839 Speaker 1: each other an economy class and our flight is canceled, 1559 01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,760 Speaker 1: you might very well wind up with a meal in 1560 01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:05,840 Speaker 1: a hotel, and I might sleep on the airport floor. 1561 01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean, so we go. You know, I want to 1562 01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,200 Speaker 1: tell you a little bit about what happened to me. 1563 01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:12,760 Speaker 1: And there's actually sort of some interesting good news here, 1564 01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,040 Speaker 1: like about so where our flight was canceled and eventually 1565 01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:16,559 Speaker 1: we were able to get a new flight the next day, 1566 01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:21,000 Speaker 1: and I complained to Delta directly. I said, you didn't 1567 01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't cover a hotel voucher and if you don't make 1568 01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:28,040 Speaker 1: this right then, and I pointed to the contract of carriage. 1569 01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,479 Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to file a complaint with the 1570 01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:35,120 Speaker 1: Department of Transportation. And pretty quickly, like within four or 1571 01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:38,479 Speaker 1: five hours, I actually got an email back saying, okay, 1572 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:40,960 Speaker 1: here is here's the you know. I sent them a 1573 01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:43,479 Speaker 1: seat with the hotel, you know, and they gave me 1574 01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:45,439 Speaker 1: a refund. And the other things to happened is we 1575 01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:47,800 Speaker 1: sat on the tarmac for three hours or so and 1576 01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:53,080 Speaker 1: they immediately like emailed afterwards and said, oh, here's fifty 1577 01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:56,080 Speaker 1: dollars or something like that as an apology. And there's 1578 01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a there's a tarmac rule, right, the DFT came out with. 1579 01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:02,639 Speaker 1: So the when you complain, when you actually just say 1580 01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:04,839 Speaker 1: we are going to file a complaint with the Department 1581 01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,639 Speaker 1: of Transportation, it does seem like you can get some response, right, 1582 01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I mean, that's is that wrong or like what happened there? 1583 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,719 Speaker 1: I would say that you're very lucky. At times it works. 1584 01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:17,639 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I think the most effective 1585 01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,000 Speaker 1: way to ever get a response from an airline these 1586 01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:25,080 Speaker 1: days is to shame them on social media. Statistically, that's 1587 01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,680 Speaker 1: what I've seen moves the needle the most. If you 1588 01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:31,160 Speaker 1: were to have gone on Twitter and detailed what happened 1589 01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:34,360 Speaker 1: to you and said, you know and tag Delta Airlines, No, 1590 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,559 Speaker 1: I know you do, we all know you do. But 1591 01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,240 Speaker 1: if you had, you know, prior to contacting Delta directly, 1592 01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:42,720 Speaker 1: if you had done that and tag Delta, you would 1593 01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,479 Speaker 1: very likely in a very short time. They monitor it 1594 01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:48,240 Speaker 1: all the time. When they see their names tag, you 1595 01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:50,559 Speaker 1: might have had a response from Delta saying, oh, we're 1596 01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:52,800 Speaker 1: sorry to hear about this, Please contact us directly at 1597 01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,960 Speaker 1: such and such. You were lucky, quite frankly, because an 1598 01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:58,240 Speaker 1: awful lot of people have done the same thing that 1599 01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:03,679 Speaker 1: you have done and they have not got their hotel built. Okay, 1600 01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,320 Speaker 1: so let's talk about the regulatory structure of the industry, 1601 01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,800 Speaker 1: because that's like what's sort of interesting. So you've got 1602 01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,840 Speaker 1: pee boot to judge is a Secretary of Transportation? What 1603 01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:17,240 Speaker 1: authority does the DOT have and how is Secretary Boodhajedge doing. 1604 01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:21,160 Speaker 1: He's not doing well at all, and unfortunately he's in 1605 01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:25,320 Speaker 1: a long line of very passive DOT secretaries. But to 1606 01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,760 Speaker 1: start with, like what can the DOT do? Actually? Here, 1607 01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,920 Speaker 1: sure the DOT has broader powers than it would have 1608 01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:36,000 Speaker 1: you assume if you hear Secretary Buddha Judges interviews with 1609 01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,640 Speaker 1: the media. The fact is there is something called an 1610 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:42,000 Speaker 1: Unfair and Deceptive Practices Rule which gives him very broad 1611 01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:46,760 Speaker 1: powers to act. Now, much of the grief that we've 1612 01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:52,320 Speaker 1: seen this summer, with extensive delays, with cancelations, with refunds 1613 01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:55,800 Speaker 1: not being paid, that is either unfair or deceptive or 1614 01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:59,240 Speaker 1: both in most cases. So the Secretary could be doing 1615 01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:03,679 Speaker 1: much more. Instead, he is choosing to start rulemakings which 1616 01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:07,280 Speaker 1: are very lengthy, can take two to three years at minimum, 1617 01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:11,559 Speaker 1: and they are not retroactive in most cases. And it's 1618 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:13,599 Speaker 1: kicking the can down the road, is what it is. 1619 01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,599 Speaker 1: So we have been very critical of Secretary of Buddha 1620 01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,760 Speaker 1: Jedge because he could be doing a lot more. This 1621 01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,559 Speaker 1: industry is in crisis, and he keeps meeting with airlines 1622 01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:24,800 Speaker 1: and doing media interviews saying, well, I'm urging them to 1623 01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:28,280 Speaker 1: do better. Urging isn't enough. So, you know, as interesting 1624 01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:30,920 Speaker 1: as he met with the airlines and then when he 1625 01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:33,800 Speaker 1: was trying to fly back from his meeting. His flight 1626 01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,800 Speaker 1: was canceled, right now, what does that say. I mean, 1627 01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:39,519 Speaker 1: do you think that the airlines knew that they were 1628 01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:42,519 Speaker 1: canceling the flight of the Secretary of Transportation or do 1629 01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,360 Speaker 1: you think that was just random. There's no question they 1630 01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:47,599 Speaker 1: know when the Secretary of Transportation is on their flight. 1631 01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:50,880 Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that I am speaking about technology 1632 01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,280 Speaker 1: that was thirty years old. When I worked in the industry, 1633 01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:56,920 Speaker 1: we had reservation systems that weren't nearly as sophisticated as 1634 01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:59,439 Speaker 1: they are now, and we knew every time there was 1635 01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:02,360 Speaker 1: a VIP. And I worked for an airline that operated 1636 01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,320 Speaker 1: a shuttle between New York and Washington, so VIPs were 1637 01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:07,519 Speaker 1: a daily thing. I mean, I saw ex presidents, x 1638 01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:11,880 Speaker 1: first ladies, you know, sitting congressman, senators, you name it, 1639 01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:16,240 Speaker 1: and they got treated differently than like you. Well, let's say, yes, 1640 01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:18,599 Speaker 1: that is a fact, there's no question about that. But 1641 01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,599 Speaker 1: I'm going to take it in a different direction. Their 1642 01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:24,920 Speaker 1: flight got treated differently, okay. And when we're talking about 1643 01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,680 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Transportation, there is no one in this 1644 01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,439 Speaker 1: country that will tell me that the airline that canceled 1645 01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:32,439 Speaker 1: his flight was not aware he was on that flight 1646 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:35,120 Speaker 1: twenty four hours after he spoke to them. Now, what 1647 01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,679 Speaker 1: does that mean there is a flag on a flight. Now, 1648 01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,320 Speaker 1: when I worked in dispatching, when I was dispatching flights 1649 01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:42,559 Speaker 1: and I had to make tough decisions on bad weather 1650 01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:46,040 Speaker 1: days and cancel flights and soliday flights, we knew we 1651 01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:49,519 Speaker 1: were aware of what VIPs were on what flight. So 1652 01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:53,320 Speaker 1: let's say there was a VIP on gate number three 1653 01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:57,320 Speaker 1: and the plane on Gate three had a mechanical issue 1654 01:33:57,360 --> 01:33:59,200 Speaker 1: and the mechanics said it's going to take four hours 1655 01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:02,360 Speaker 1: to fix. We would steal the plane from Gate four 1656 01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:06,639 Speaker 1: and cancel that flight or delay that flight, And that's 1657 01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:09,720 Speaker 1: how we would operate it to protect the VIP. This 1658 01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:12,800 Speaker 1: goes on every day. Now, sometimes you can't protect the VIP, 1659 01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes things are just so bad that you know 1660 01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:17,720 Speaker 1: it's overwhelming and you wind up canceling a whole bunch 1661 01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:19,960 Speaker 1: of flights. But I will guarantee you and answer to 1662 01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:24,560 Speaker 1: your question, they were fully aware that the secretary was 1663 01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:28,719 Speaker 1: booked on that flight. That's interesting. So members of Congress, 1664 01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, the political elites are kind of insulated a 1665 01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:34,000 Speaker 1: little bit from the chaos because of you know that 1666 01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:36,640 Speaker 1: it's a smart political strategy, imagine from the airlines to 1667 01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,840 Speaker 1: try to do that. But in this case they were 1668 01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:40,720 Speaker 1: just they were was this like a middle finger to 1669 01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:42,840 Speaker 1: Bodha judge or what what does it mean to say, Okay, 1670 01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,240 Speaker 1: we're just going to cancel your flight. I've spoken to 1671 01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:47,200 Speaker 1: people in the industry who have said that yes, I 1672 01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:49,559 Speaker 1: mean I can't confirm it, but they have said to 1673 01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:53,080 Speaker 1: me that, you know, is it coincidence at twenty four 1674 01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:55,599 Speaker 1: hours after he asked them to do better, his own 1675 01:34:55,640 --> 01:35:00,080 Speaker 1: flight was canceled. Of all people. Now, I will also say, 1676 01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned isolation, like you know, members of 1677 01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,920 Speaker 1: Congress ETCA maybe a little isolated. I'll say this, I 1678 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:08,960 Speaker 1: think this summer is extraordinary in a lot of ways. 1679 01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,000 Speaker 1: And one way is I've been seeing in an awful 1680 01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,759 Speaker 1: lot of comments on social media from members of Congress 1681 01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:17,080 Speaker 1: who have had their flights extensively delayed and canceled, and 1682 01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:20,320 Speaker 1: that is something that you don't see in large numbers. 1683 01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:23,080 Speaker 1: I really think, quite frankly, it has to do with 1684 01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,919 Speaker 1: the arrogance of this industry. I think they believe, honestly 1685 01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:29,519 Speaker 1: that they are above reproach. I mean, they don't fear 1686 01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:32,760 Speaker 1: Secretary of Boodhage edge. They don't fear the dot. Do 1687 01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:35,679 Speaker 1: they fear Congress? I don't know, but it certainly seems 1688 01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:38,280 Speaker 1: like they're just acting with impunity. Well what's the sort 1689 01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:41,960 Speaker 1: of Okay, so last question, like what's the right policy solution? 1690 01:35:42,160 --> 01:35:44,080 Speaker 1: Like if you're going to you know this, this industry 1691 01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,760 Speaker 1: is not particularly profitable, I mean goes up and down, right, 1692 01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:49,960 Speaker 1: it's not you know, it's consolidated. Like actually, before we 1693 01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:51,920 Speaker 1: get to the sort of the right policy solution, like, 1694 01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, what you could do in a lot of 1695 01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,280 Speaker 1: other places is if you don't like one company's goods, 1696 01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,120 Speaker 1: you can buy someone else's. But this industry, it's it's 1697 01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,599 Speaker 1: pretty consolidateds can you talk about that? Like what happened 1698 01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:07,640 Speaker 1: to consolidate the industry? How bad is that? It's the 1699 01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:11,200 Speaker 1: worst it's ever been. We have fewer competitors in the 1700 01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,320 Speaker 1: airline industry in twenty twenty two than we have had 1701 01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:16,880 Speaker 1: at any time since nineteen fourteen, when the industry was founded. Okay, 1702 01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:20,640 Speaker 1: there are fewer airlines, there are fewer major airlines, that is, 1703 01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:22,960 Speaker 1: airlines that generate more than a billion dollars a year 1704 01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:26,840 Speaker 1: in revenues, and the consolidation has never been greater. The 1705 01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:30,360 Speaker 1: four largest airlines in this country, American, Delta, United, and 1706 01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:34,320 Speaker 1: Southwest collectively with their partners, their regional partners as they 1707 01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:38,600 Speaker 1: call them, command about eighty five percent of the market share. Historically, 1708 01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:41,920 Speaker 1: all through the twentieth century, no US airline had more 1709 01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,800 Speaker 1: than ten eleven twelve percent at most. So we have 1710 01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:48,880 Speaker 1: fewer competitors, we have greater concentration. We also have had 1711 01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:52,559 Speaker 1: the longest earth of new entrant airlines. We just went 1712 01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:55,559 Speaker 1: through a fourteen year spell from two thousand and seven 1713 01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:58,600 Speaker 1: to twenty twenty one without a single new entrant airline, 1714 01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:01,879 Speaker 1: which is the exact opposite of what deregulation was supposed 1715 01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:04,880 Speaker 1: to do. In nineteen seventy eight, one of the central 1716 01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:08,120 Speaker 1: promises of deregulation was that the floodgates would open and 1717 01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:09,720 Speaker 1: there would be all these new entrants that would make 1718 01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:11,600 Speaker 1: life better for all of us. It happened for a 1719 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:15,240 Speaker 1: while until most of them were driven into bankruptcy or consolidated. 1720 01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,719 Speaker 1: So we have a level of consolidation we've never seen. 1721 01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,920 Speaker 1: And there's no question anymore that the industry is too 1722 01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:22,840 Speaker 1: big to fail. Every time there's a problem, and the 1723 01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:27,439 Speaker 1: bailouts are rolled out. We know that it is too 1724 01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:29,559 Speaker 1: big to fail. Some of us were predicting this ten 1725 01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,160 Speaker 1: and twelve years ago when we were testifying against mergers 1726 01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:36,960 Speaker 1: United Continental Delta Northwest, But we're already at that point. 1727 01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:39,000 Speaker 1: I would argue that we're not only at too big 1728 01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:41,200 Speaker 1: to fail, we're now at a too big to care 1729 01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:44,280 Speaker 1: attitude because they right, I mean, if you're canceling, if 1730 01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:46,800 Speaker 1: you get canceling flights of political elites, then you really 1731 01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:48,840 Speaker 1: are just you don't You're like, Okay, what are you 1732 01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:51,080 Speaker 1: going to do? Right? Like, That's what's happening at this point. 1733 01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:53,439 Speaker 1: And I have a pet theory about this. One of 1734 01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:55,840 Speaker 1: the problems about this industry in the United States is 1735 01:37:56,200 --> 01:38:02,920 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly obviously most lawmakers, regulators, most media are concentrated in 1736 01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:05,799 Speaker 1: cities like Washington and New York, maybe Los Angeles, Chicago 1737 01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:10,480 Speaker 1: and their anomalies. Actually, much of this country is actually 1738 01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:14,599 Speaker 1: has has so little competition. There are no low fare carriers, 1739 01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,760 Speaker 1: There are no spirit or Allegiant or or Frontier in 1740 01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:20,519 Speaker 1: so many areas of this country. You may not like 1741 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,000 Speaker 1: some of those airlines for their service, but they're helping 1742 01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:24,920 Speaker 1: you if you're flying on their roots. Because even if 1743 01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:27,559 Speaker 1: you're flying on another airline, they bring fares down, and 1744 01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:30,320 Speaker 1: when they leave, fares go up. Right, So you don't 1745 01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:33,120 Speaker 1: have low fare carriers, you don't have hubs, you don't 1746 01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:37,040 Speaker 1: have frequency of flights, and we're talking huge sections of 1747 01:38:37,080 --> 01:38:41,680 Speaker 1: this country. Deregulation has failed in many, many ways. But 1748 01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, when I speak to reporters, and let's say 1749 01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:45,840 Speaker 1: they're in New York or Washington, they say, what are 1750 01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:48,040 Speaker 1: you talking about. I just got a two hundred dollars 1751 01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:51,040 Speaker 1: fair to Florida, sure on Spirit Airlines, Because you know, 1752 01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:53,720 Speaker 1: you're in a market that has that much of the country, 1753 01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:56,880 Speaker 1: they're paying three or four or five times as much, right, 1754 01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,240 Speaker 1: and so okay. So deregulation did a number of things. 1755 01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:02,240 Speaker 1: Before nineteen seventy eight, we had a government agency that 1756 01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:05,320 Speaker 1: just set prices and routes right and just said, you, 1757 01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:06,760 Speaker 1: if you want to fly from New York to la 1758 01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:09,920 Speaker 1: you also have to fly from you know, Cleveland to Tampa, right, 1759 01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:11,920 Speaker 1: so that everybody in the country gets sort of some 1760 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:16,600 Speaker 1: relatively equal air service. And it basically made sure that 1761 01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:19,720 Speaker 1: airlines made a reasonable return on their capital, right, so 1762 01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:23,599 Speaker 1: they didn't have an incentive to undermine people's consumer experience. 1763 01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,599 Speaker 1: Because they were going to make a reasonable return regardless 1764 01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:33,000 Speaker 1: of what they did. But deregulation, among other things, it 1765 01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,080 Speaker 1: made it imp like it basically you know what did 1766 01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:39,320 Speaker 1: it actually do to the industry in terms of consumer protection? Right? 1767 01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,760 Speaker 1: That makes airlines unusual visa via every other industry in 1768 01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,639 Speaker 1: the country. Well, part of the Deregulation Act in nineteen 1769 01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,680 Speaker 1: seventy eight, this is forty four years ago now, was 1770 01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:53,639 Speaker 1: a clause dealing with federal preemption. And what that means 1771 01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:56,400 Speaker 1: simply is that only the federal government will have oversight 1772 01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,080 Speaker 1: of the over this industry. And I don't know if 1773 01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:01,920 Speaker 1: they anticipated in seventy eight how pervasive that would be, 1774 01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:04,559 Speaker 1: but for the last forty four years it's been extremely pervasive. 1775 01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:06,880 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is state courts have 1776 01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:10,479 Speaker 1: virtually no authority over airlines. And anytime you file a suit, 1777 01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:13,080 Speaker 1: as you do with any other industry, any other corporation 1778 01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:15,840 Speaker 1: you've been wronged, and you file a suit in state 1779 01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:18,080 Speaker 1: court or a class action suit in state court, it 1780 01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:22,880 Speaker 1: will automatically, automatically rubber stamp be thrown out of court 1781 01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:27,799 Speaker 1: by a federal court because the airlines will cite federal preemption. 1782 01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:30,920 Speaker 1: Same with state ags same with state legislatures. So the 1783 01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:34,160 Speaker 1: only recourse that you have is the Department of Transportation, 1784 01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:39,720 Speaker 1: which is institutionally promoting the airline industry, whereas every other 1785 01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:43,080 Speaker 1: industry you can actually sue individually or a state attorney 1786 01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,519 Speaker 1: general can bring a case. I mean, it's you know, 1787 01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:47,559 Speaker 1: we have a huge monopoly problem everywhere. So it's not 1788 01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:49,120 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of consumer rights in a lot 1789 01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,919 Speaker 1: of these other industries. But you actually literally can't sue 1790 01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:55,160 Speaker 1: if an airline wronged you, and even your state attorney 1791 01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:57,800 Speaker 1: general or state you know, state officials can't do anything 1792 01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:01,160 Speaker 1: about it. The only one that can is the Department Transportation. 1793 01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:04,679 Speaker 1: Is that right? That's exactly right? And from a consumer perspective, 1794 01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:06,920 Speaker 1: it blows people's minds when I say to them, do 1795 01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:09,759 Speaker 1: you understand you have fewer rights dealing with an airline 1796 01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:12,480 Speaker 1: than you have with virtually any other company in America? 1797 01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:15,400 Speaker 1: So what's the what kind of like, what's the short 1798 01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:19,080 Speaker 1: term policy solution here and the long term policy solution. Sure, 1799 01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:23,799 Speaker 1: the short term policy solution is to eliminate federal preemption 1800 01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:27,680 Speaker 1: because it's been it's clear that the Department of Transportation, 1801 01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:31,200 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, it's baked into the DOTS, DNA that 1802 01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:34,160 Speaker 1: they promote the industry. I know this for a fact. 1803 01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:38,040 Speaker 1: I have spoken to dozens and dozens of whistleblowers over 1804 01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:41,799 Speaker 1: the years at the DOT, at the DOTS subsidiary agency, 1805 01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:45,120 Speaker 1: the Federal Aviation Administration. I wrote a book, Attention All Passengers, 1806 01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:49,559 Speaker 1: and it details this. And they will tell me that, 1807 01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, an FAA inspector will go out find a 1808 01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:55,320 Speaker 1: mechanical problem on an aircraft, ground the aircraft and tell them, 1809 01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, you can't fly this airplane until you fix it. 1810 01:41:58,120 --> 01:41:59,760 Speaker 1: And by the time that inspector gets back to their 1811 01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,679 Speaker 1: own US, their boss is waiting for them and says, hey, 1812 01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:04,760 Speaker 1: I got a call from the CEO of the airline. 1813 01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:10,000 Speaker 1: It's hard to even fathom how institutionally it's baked into 1814 01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,920 Speaker 1: the FA and the DT, that the interests of airlines 1815 01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,559 Speaker 1: so often come before the interests of consumers. So it 1816 01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:18,760 Speaker 1: is it's a regulatory agency that does not work. It 1817 01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:25,040 Speaker 1: is the textbook captured agency. But there's so I agree 1818 01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:27,840 Speaker 1: with that, but like there's a broader problem here, which 1819 01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:31,800 Speaker 1: is that the industry is structurally designed to become unprofitable 1820 01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,400 Speaker 1: at certain but it's like a very boom bust cyclical industry. 1821 01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:36,559 Speaker 1: It's not like you know, Google, which makes a ton 1822 01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:38,760 Speaker 1: of money, or a lot of these other companies that 1823 01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:41,280 Speaker 1: just make a ton of money, like the airlines. You know, 1824 01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:42,920 Speaker 1: they make a lot of money in good times, but 1825 01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,240 Speaker 1: they lose a ton of money in bad times because 1826 01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:48,840 Speaker 1: there are very high fixed costs, and so part of 1827 01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:51,519 Speaker 1: what's going on is, you know, the old system kind 1828 01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:54,479 Speaker 1: of guaranteed them a reasonable return on their capital. In 1829 01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:57,839 Speaker 1: the new system says you have to squeeze to grab 1830 01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:01,320 Speaker 1: everything you can to prepare for the bad times, and 1831 01:43:01,360 --> 01:43:03,320 Speaker 1: then a bad times, you know, get a bailout. But 1832 01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:05,720 Speaker 1: this is endemic to any sort of industry like this. 1833 01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:09,759 Speaker 1: It's happened with railroads, it happens with shipping, it happens 1834 01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:13,000 Speaker 1: with with a lot with trucking in some ways, like 1835 01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:17,200 Speaker 1: it's it's a characteristic of these industries. So the consumer problem, 1836 01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:20,840 Speaker 1: the regulatory scheme that we have that squeezes consumers is 1837 01:43:20,880 --> 01:43:24,400 Speaker 1: actually driven by the characteristics of a deregulated industry. Is 1838 01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:26,559 Speaker 1: in I mean, that's kind of my view of it. 1839 01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:28,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's something that you agree with 1840 01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,120 Speaker 1: or disagree with, but that's like why it's getting you know, 1841 01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:33,839 Speaker 1: why the squeeze is happening. You know, it's being driven 1842 01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:37,040 Speaker 1: by the rules that we've written writ broadly, no question. 1843 01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:40,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the bottom line is airlines are a utility, 1844 01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:42,799 Speaker 1: no different than a cable company, than a phone company, 1845 01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:45,559 Speaker 1: then you know the other utilities that we all depend on. 1846 01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:49,240 Speaker 1: But the problem is it's a utility that is operated 1847 01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:54,000 Speaker 1: as a for profit, free market industry. So therefore the 1848 01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:57,519 Speaker 1: decisions that make sense to CEOs, they make sense to them. 1849 01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:00,479 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they're nonsensical. If I'm an airline CEO, 1850 01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying, well, why fly that route. It's not as 1851 01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:05,559 Speaker 1: lucrative as flying this other route, So we'll pull all 1852 01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:07,759 Speaker 1: our planes and our crews and we'll shut down there 1853 01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,360 Speaker 1: and we'll operate here where we can make more money. Well, 1854 01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:13,000 Speaker 1: that is not how you operate a transportation system. That 1855 01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:15,880 Speaker 1: is not how highways that like kills that other city. Right, 1856 01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:20,200 Speaker 1: the effects, the effects are egregious. I mean we are 1857 01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:22,479 Speaker 1: talking about it's not just you know that, oh, you 1858 01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:25,240 Speaker 1: don't have as many flight frequencies to get to Disney World. 1859 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:27,880 Speaker 1: We're saying the corporations will pack up and move out. 1860 01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:31,720 Speaker 1: Corporations can't have sales staff connecting two or three times 1861 01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:34,320 Speaker 1: a day on every flight. It's just it's so wasteful. 1862 01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,160 Speaker 1: They have actually moved out of cities. I mean, you 1863 01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:42,000 Speaker 1: talk to Saint Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Raleigh, cities that 1864 01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,679 Speaker 1: once had very robust hubs. What does a hub mean. 1865 01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:46,479 Speaker 1: It means that you're going to have a ton of 1866 01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:49,160 Speaker 1: flights all day long. You're going to have multiple non 1867 01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,960 Speaker 1: stops to multiple destinations. You're going to have flight frequencies. 1868 01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:55,800 Speaker 1: In other words, there's five flats a day from Pittsburgh 1869 01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:58,760 Speaker 1: to wherever, and now it's down to one a day 1870 01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:00,720 Speaker 1: or two a day, or maybe no nonstops and you 1871 01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:03,479 Speaker 1: have to go to Chicago or Atlanta. So this is 1872 01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:06,040 Speaker 1: a contributing to a whole host of factor of problems. 1873 01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:08,160 Speaker 1: Not just it's not just like air flights are being canceled. 1874 01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:12,920 Speaker 1: It's also it's killing entire regions economically. And okay, well, 1875 01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,680 Speaker 1: so you're so the long short term solution, if I'm 1876 01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:18,519 Speaker 1: getting it sort of right, is to get rid of 1877 01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:22,000 Speaker 1: that like shield to a liability shield, like that subsidy 1878 01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:24,960 Speaker 1: for the airlines that lets them harm consumers and make 1879 01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,680 Speaker 1: some extra money that way, And I just saying like 1880 01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:31,040 Speaker 1: every other industry does. Right, so you get rights, I 1881 01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:34,120 Speaker 1: as consumer you can sue and like state ags consus it. 1882 01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:36,320 Speaker 1: But then long term we have this problem where we 1883 01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:38,320 Speaker 1: actually have to find a way to regulate the industry 1884 01:45:38,360 --> 01:45:40,759 Speaker 1: like a public utility as it was prior to nineteen 1885 01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:43,439 Speaker 1: seventy eight. Is that is that? No question? No question. 1886 01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:45,840 Speaker 1: That's that's my belief. I mean, I think that that 1887 01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:48,040 Speaker 1: when you add up all the pluses and minuses, and 1888 01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:50,639 Speaker 1: I would not say that it's all minuses by any means, 1889 01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:52,479 Speaker 1: but when you add up all the pluses and minuses 1890 01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:55,240 Speaker 1: of deregulation, it has been a failure, and it has 1891 01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:57,919 Speaker 1: failed all of us. It's failed labor, it's failed consumers, 1892 01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:01,800 Speaker 1: it's failed cities and regions. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm 1893 01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:04,559 Speaker 1: gonna end it here, but in the description, I'm going 1894 01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:08,080 Speaker 1: to put a link to the Department of Transportation complaint page. 1895 01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:11,080 Speaker 1: If you have air a problem, you should complain. Is 1896 01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:13,760 Speaker 1: this does embarrass the airlines, and it will it may 1897 01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:19,200 Speaker 1: get you some help. And then also you should, you know, 1898 01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:22,040 Speaker 1: write your member of Congress and say you want investigation 1899 01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,120 Speaker 1: something to do with the airlines. This is not an 1900 01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:30,160 Speaker 1: insolvable situation. Flight is amazing as a technology, and it's 1901 01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:33,320 Speaker 1: incredible that we have it. So I'm optimistic because I 1902 01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:36,240 Speaker 1: think this summer is giving us the you know, the 1903 01:46:36,280 --> 01:46:40,200 Speaker 1: impetus to actually start doing something about this. And I 1904 01:46:40,240 --> 01:46:42,920 Speaker 1: guess I'll leave it there. Bill, What do you think, 1905 01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, in your thirty seven years in the industry, 1906 01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:47,000 Speaker 1: have you do you think this is kind of like 1907 01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:49,200 Speaker 1: a turning point, This this sort of summer of twenty 1908 01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:52,320 Speaker 1: twenty two, this summer of hell. Well, as you know, 1909 01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,280 Speaker 1: I've been busy since I got here, I mean since 1910 01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm Royal day, I've barely been able to catch my breath. 1911 01:46:57,640 --> 01:47:00,280 Speaker 1: But I do think that there's an optimist So I 1912 01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:02,880 Speaker 1: told us I completely agree with you. I have never 1913 01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,800 Speaker 1: seen the level of anger, and I've never seen, anecdotally 1914 01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,200 Speaker 1: so many people. My phone blows up every day, people 1915 01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:10,559 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the airlines or aviation that 1916 01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:12,519 Speaker 1: are texting me and saying, hey, guess what happened to 1917 01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:14,799 Speaker 1: my daughter, Hey guess what happened to my husband? Whatever? 1918 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,360 Speaker 1: And what can we do? We're stranded in Denver and 1919 01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:21,479 Speaker 1: all of this stuff and the cancelations, and I think 1920 01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:25,240 Speaker 1: that we really should step back and say this is 1921 01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:29,599 Speaker 1: not an anomaly twenty twenty two. We could have predicted 1922 01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,439 Speaker 1: this years ago. This is a convergence of a whole 1923 01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:35,640 Speaker 1: bunch of factors. The airlines have raised cost cutting to 1924 01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:40,360 Speaker 1: a point where they are operating this way. I don't 1925 01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:43,920 Speaker 1: mean it in in a safety way, in such a way 1926 01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,240 Speaker 1: that they're at peak capacity twenty four to seven, and 1927 01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:48,799 Speaker 1: so when something goes wrong, it goes very wrong, very quickly. 1928 01:47:49,160 --> 01:47:51,479 Speaker 1: When I was a dispatcher, if I canceled a flight, 1929 01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:54,519 Speaker 1: the loads were about seventy percent on average, So for 1930 01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:57,280 Speaker 1: every seven passengers, there are three empty seats. What did 1931 01:47:57,280 --> 01:47:59,320 Speaker 1: I do? We put those passengers on the next two 1932 01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:01,160 Speaker 1: or three flights and then things got straightened out in 1933 01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:03,800 Speaker 1: a few hours. How do you do that when loads 1934 01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:05,680 Speaker 1: are what they are now, the highest they've been since 1935 01:48:05,720 --> 01:48:08,559 Speaker 1: World War Two, when airlines were troop carriers. They're in 1936 01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:12,360 Speaker 1: the high nineties now on many routes. So if something 1937 01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:15,479 Speaker 1: goes wrong, unfortunately, you're screwed. I mean, that's why people 1938 01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:18,360 Speaker 1: are sleeping on airport floors. There are no spare aircraft, 1939 01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:20,320 Speaker 1: there are no spare crews. They can't even operate the 1940 01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:24,439 Speaker 1: flights day schedule. So the system itself is just it's 1941 01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:28,280 Speaker 1: at breaking point all the time. So I hope that 1942 01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:34,840 Speaker 1: the lessons that we're learning this summer can really manifest 1943 01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:39,120 Speaker 1: themselves in lasting change. All right, well, listen, thanks a 1944 01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:43,719 Speaker 1: lot for coming on and giving us your perspective. And yeah, 1945 01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:46,439 Speaker 1: I trust you. I believe what you're saying even though 1946 01:48:46,439 --> 01:48:50,760 Speaker 1: you're not wearing a jacket, and that's how convincing you are. 1947 01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:54,080 Speaker 1: So thanks a lot, Bill, Thank you, thanks for watching 1948 01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:57,240 Speaker 1: this Big Breakdown on the Breaking Points channel. That was fantastic. 1949 01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,360 Speaker 1: Bill really enjoyed it. If you'd like to know more 1950 01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:02,800 Speaker 1: about big business and how our economy really works, you 1951 01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:05,240 Speaker 1: can sign up below from a market power focused newsletter 1952 01:49:05,439 --> 01:49:11,240 Speaker 1: Big in the description, thanks and have a good one. Hi. 1953 01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:14,680 Speaker 1: I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor in chief of the 1954 01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:18,360 Speaker 1: Real News Network and host of the podcast Working People 1955 01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,520 Speaker 1: and This is the Art of Class War on Breaking Points. 1956 01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:28,280 Speaker 1: Esteban Chavez Junior aka Lil Stevie, turned twenty four on 1957 01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:32,640 Speaker 1: June twenty fourth of this year. He was young, he 1958 01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:36,840 Speaker 1: worked hard, He was a die hard Dodgers fan, and 1959 01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:39,920 Speaker 1: his family, who looked like they could be part of 1960 01:49:39,960 --> 01:49:45,600 Speaker 1: my family, loved him dearly. One day after his birthday, 1961 01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:50,160 Speaker 1: on June twenty fifth, in Pasadena, California, on a day 1962 01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:55,720 Speaker 1: when temperatures reached into the high nineties, Esteban died alone, 1963 01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,559 Speaker 1: his body cooking inside a metal hot box on wheels 1964 01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:05,280 Speaker 1: with no air conditioning. Astheman was a UPS driver and 1965 01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:10,839 Speaker 1: package deliverer. He died on the job. A Steban's family 1966 01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:14,000 Speaker 1: are still waiting for the official report on his cause 1967 01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:18,719 Speaker 1: of death, but they, along with A. Steban's Teamster Union 1968 01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:23,160 Speaker 1: siblings and fellow UPS workers, have clearly pointed the finger 1969 01:50:23,400 --> 01:50:27,880 Speaker 1: at the unbearable heat, the grueling workloads, and the lack 1970 01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:32,759 Speaker 1: of safety provisions for drivers working in that heat. Because 1971 01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:35,880 Speaker 1: the tragic loss of this young man's life was not 1972 01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:40,519 Speaker 1: some freak accident, the US and most of the world 1973 01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:45,280 Speaker 1: have been pummeled by record breaking heat waves. His climate 1974 01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:50,599 Speaker 1: catastrophe has us all watching life sustaining waterways in Europe 1975 01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:55,080 Speaker 1: and China and the American Southwest literally drying up in 1976 01:50:55,160 --> 01:51:00,200 Speaker 1: real time, and UPS workers in all letter carriers and 1977 01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:04,679 Speaker 1: packaged deliverers around the US have continued raising the alarm 1978 01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:08,880 Speaker 1: about their dangerous working conditions and the hazards the heat 1979 01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:13,040 Speaker 1: inside and outside of their trucks poses to them, to 1980 01:51:13,160 --> 01:51:17,479 Speaker 1: others on the road, and to our economy, which simply 1981 01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:20,960 Speaker 1: cannot function without them and the vital work that they do. 1982 01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:26,160 Speaker 1: After Little Stevie's death in June, I began working on 1983 01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:29,960 Speaker 1: putting together a panel discussion of fellow UPS drivers to 1984 01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:34,360 Speaker 1: address this very issue, which we actually just published this 1985 01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:38,360 Speaker 1: week on my podcast, Working People, and I was going 1986 01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:41,679 Speaker 1: to feature clips from that panel in a larger segment 1987 01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:46,280 Speaker 1: this week, focusing on the horrible heat conditions that workers 1988 01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:51,320 Speaker 1: across America are facing in the transportation and logistics industry, 1989 01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:56,559 Speaker 1: in the farming industry, in construction, and elsewhere. However, as 1990 01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:00,160 Speaker 1: you guys know, earlier this week on Breaking Points, the 1991 01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:03,800 Speaker 1: Great Crystal Ball published an excellent and spot on breakdown 1992 01:52:03,840 --> 01:52:07,920 Speaker 1: of the heating crisis that UPS workers specifically are dealing 1993 01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:11,759 Speaker 1: with right now. And I've got to tell you, having 1994 01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:17,919 Speaker 1: spent years toiling and obscurity interviewing workers about their lives, jobs, dreams, 1995 01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:23,360 Speaker 1: and struggles, there are hardly any media organizations where I 1996 01:52:23,360 --> 01:52:26,360 Speaker 1: would ever have to worry about a story like this 1997 01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:29,759 Speaker 1: being covered by me and a colleague. At the same time, 1998 01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:33,439 Speaker 1: I think it's really a testament to what Breaking points 1999 01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,760 Speaker 1: in Crystal are doing that, I now have the opportunity 2000 01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:40,879 Speaker 1: to build on and complement her crucial report with this segment. 2001 01:52:41,600 --> 01:52:44,519 Speaker 1: So here's what we're going to do. First things First, 2002 01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:49,120 Speaker 1: if you haven't already, go watch Crystal segment because it 2003 01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:54,200 Speaker 1: provides essential context for the clips that you're about to hear. Secondly, 2004 01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:58,720 Speaker 1: since we just released my conversation with three UPS workers 2005 01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:01,600 Speaker 1: on working people, I'm going to spend the rest of 2006 01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:06,040 Speaker 1: this segment playing some clips from that episode. And lastly, 2007 01:53:06,760 --> 01:53:09,519 Speaker 1: I'm going to be back to record part two of 2008 01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:13,400 Speaker 1: this segment, where we'll talk in more depth about heat 2009 01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:18,440 Speaker 1: as a workplace hazard, the workers it's affecting in other industries, 2010 01:53:19,160 --> 01:53:22,479 Speaker 1: how it's affecting them, and what can be done about it. 2011 01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:26,600 Speaker 1: So for now, for all of us who depend on 2012 01:53:26,680 --> 01:53:30,920 Speaker 1: the people delivering stuff to our doors every day, if 2013 01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:33,400 Speaker 1: you want to know what they're going through right now, 2014 01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:39,160 Speaker 1: listen to UPS drivers and teamsters Gabriella, Zach and Steve. 2015 01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:44,920 Speaker 1: Here's Gabriella from the Southwest. People need to understand that UPS, 2016 01:53:45,320 --> 01:53:48,920 Speaker 1: especially package delivery, is a different job than any job 2017 01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:52,200 Speaker 1: that you've probably ever done. I talked to some of 2018 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:55,479 Speaker 1: my friends and you know they can stop working and 2019 01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:59,639 Speaker 1: look at their phone for like five minutes, sometimes twenty minutes, 2020 01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:04,240 Speaker 1: even like one minute. At ups impact delivery, you cannot 2021 01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:08,360 Speaker 1: stop for longer, like you really can't stop period. But 2022 01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:11,280 Speaker 1: no worker, no delivery driver is ever going to stop 2023 01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:14,040 Speaker 1: for longer than like one minute. Because we have over 2024 01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:17,320 Speaker 1: two hundred censors inside the engine of our truck that 2025 01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:21,160 Speaker 1: tracks us. We have we're starting to get cameras inside 2026 01:54:21,160 --> 01:54:23,959 Speaker 1: our at the cob of our trucks that track us. Management, 2027 01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:30,080 Speaker 1: magement Management. Sorry I'm talking too fasts. I'm angry Management 2028 01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:33,560 Speaker 1: is sitting in their A Seed offices watching every single 2029 01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:37,200 Speaker 1: thing that you do. You're trained in the three forty methods, 2030 01:54:37,200 --> 01:54:39,600 Speaker 1: which is three hundred and forty different things to describe 2031 01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,920 Speaker 1: your job exactly how you're supposed to do it. I mean, 2032 01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,160 Speaker 1: if we were in person, I could show you. We 2033 01:54:45,160 --> 01:54:47,360 Speaker 1: could all show you, like exactly the methods for like 2034 01:54:47,400 --> 01:54:48,960 Speaker 1: how to pick up a box, how to walk up 2035 01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:51,400 Speaker 1: to the house, how to get in your truck, how 2036 01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,960 Speaker 1: to pull away from a curb. It's it's extreme, you know, 2037 01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:57,960 Speaker 1: like it's a very high stress job and there are 2038 01:54:58,000 --> 01:55:02,040 Speaker 1: so many rules and they if you, you know, if 2039 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:06,480 Speaker 1: you start to you know, care about your safety, you know, 2040 01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:08,960 Speaker 1: and like they will they'll do like liability right, like 2041 01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:11,040 Speaker 1: they'll lack like they care about your safety. They'll tell 2042 01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:12,800 Speaker 1: you to drink water, They'll tell you all this stuff 2043 01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:15,840 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, 2044 01:55:16,440 --> 01:55:19,200 Speaker 1: like the way that this job functions does not work 2045 01:55:19,240 --> 01:55:22,520 Speaker 1: for human beings. Working in one hundred and seven degree 2046 01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:26,200 Speaker 1: heat does not work, Like does not work for human beings. 2047 01:55:26,760 --> 01:55:29,000 Speaker 1: Working in a truck that does not have ac or 2048 01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:31,400 Speaker 1: ventilation in the back where it gets to over one 2049 01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,880 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty degrees doesn't work for human beings. And 2050 01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:36,840 Speaker 1: not being able to stop, I mean, I know they 2051 01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:39,400 Speaker 1: will say like you can stop that you're really hot, 2052 01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, like take a break, but like you know 2053 01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:43,920 Speaker 1: that the next day that they're going to harass you 2054 01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,760 Speaker 1: and ask you, you know, why did you stop blah blah, 2055 01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:48,560 Speaker 1: and you say like, oh, you know, I was feeling 2056 01:55:48,640 --> 01:55:52,400 Speaker 1: really hot, and you know, like you legally have the 2057 01:55:52,520 --> 01:55:56,840 Speaker 1: right to stop working in unsafe working conditions. So if 2058 01:55:56,880 --> 01:55:58,120 Speaker 1: you need to take a break from the heat, then 2059 01:55:58,120 --> 01:56:00,480 Speaker 1: you're allowed to do that. A going to try to 2060 01:56:00,480 --> 01:56:02,240 Speaker 1: push it. It's like clock out your lunch or like 2061 01:56:02,280 --> 01:56:04,200 Speaker 1: clock out your break. So like, that's what it's like 2062 01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:08,160 Speaker 1: working for UPS and it's insane. Sometimes people go out 2063 01:56:08,200 --> 01:56:11,560 Speaker 1: with you know, about three hundred stops. It's not uncommon 2064 01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:14,480 Speaker 1: to have that high amount of stops. Uh, my route 2065 01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:18,240 Speaker 1: would go out with two hundred. After the pandemic, they 2066 01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:20,520 Speaker 1: really slammed my route with even more stops than I 2067 01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:22,960 Speaker 1: could handle. And then you know that would have it's 2068 01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:25,920 Speaker 1: like two hundred stops. That's not two hundred packages total, 2069 01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:30,280 Speaker 1: it's like about two hundred and sixty packages. Because some 2070 01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:33,200 Speaker 1: houses have multiple packages. And when you look inside the 2071 01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:37,240 Speaker 1: truck that we ever have the great pleasure to look 2072 01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:40,240 Speaker 1: inside that instead of a UPS struck in the morning, 2073 01:56:40,320 --> 01:56:42,920 Speaker 1: it is packed fronts of that there is no way 2074 01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,080 Speaker 1: to walk through it. It is packed all the way 2075 01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:51,040 Speaker 1: to the ceiling. It's bad. And then so when you're 2076 01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:53,720 Speaker 1: when you have that many packages inside of your truck, 2077 01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:57,640 Speaker 1: naturally you're not going to be able to find them immediately. 2078 01:56:57,680 --> 01:56:59,240 Speaker 1: So you're actually going to spend a lot of time 2079 01:56:59,240 --> 01:57:01,720 Speaker 1: in the back of the truck when it is one 2080 01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:03,440 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty degrees in the back of the truck, 2081 01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:07,160 Speaker 1: there's no airflow. You're back there, you're trying really there 2082 01:57:07,200 --> 01:57:09,280 Speaker 1: would be times where I was trying very hard to 2083 01:57:09,320 --> 01:57:11,320 Speaker 1: find the package. I would be back there for maybe 2084 01:57:11,360 --> 01:57:14,800 Speaker 1: forty five seconds, and I had to tell myself, like, 2085 01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:16,600 Speaker 1: I cannot be back here, because if I passed out 2086 01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:18,920 Speaker 1: in the back of this truck, nobody's going to find me. 2087 01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:21,600 Speaker 1: Nobody's going to come up to me. No one's going 2088 01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:23,360 Speaker 1: to look inside my package car to find out if 2089 01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:25,480 Speaker 1: I'm okay. You know, like it's probably gonna take a 2090 01:57:25,480 --> 01:57:27,600 Speaker 1: few hours for management to even figure out if anything 2091 01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:30,840 Speaker 1: went wrong. My best hope would be that somebody wanted 2092 01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:33,640 Speaker 1: to rob the package car and came in and saw 2093 01:57:33,680 --> 01:57:35,520 Speaker 1: that I was back there, you know, like they just 2094 01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:39,040 Speaker 1: decided to walk in. It's really dangerous. So there's that. 2095 01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:42,960 Speaker 1: My best friend actually at work, he was trying to 2096 01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:47,720 Speaker 1: pass the probation period at UPS, and just the standard 2097 01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:49,880 Speaker 1: that they had him in, or the standards that they 2098 01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:52,640 Speaker 1: have the mat to get past what we call packet, 2099 01:57:52,680 --> 01:57:55,920 Speaker 1: the probation period for new drivers. It's just ridiculous, especially 2100 01:57:55,920 --> 01:58:01,320 Speaker 1: in the summer heat. And he actually ended up throwing 2101 01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:05,200 Speaker 1: up outside of a hospital, and I believe his wife 2102 01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:06,640 Speaker 1: was outside of the hospital with him. He was on 2103 01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:09,120 Speaker 1: the job and he was feeling so sick, like there 2104 01:58:09,160 --> 01:58:12,080 Speaker 1: was something very very wrong in management. I came and 2105 01:58:12,120 --> 01:58:14,160 Speaker 1: met him as out of the hospital outside of the er, 2106 01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:16,840 Speaker 1: and he was like throwing up and they told him please, 2107 01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:18,240 Speaker 1: They're like, don't go in the art, don't go in 2108 01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:20,160 Speaker 1: the ar, like, we'll take you to the We'll take 2109 01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:23,600 Speaker 1: you to concentra. The work doctor, I've been to that 2110 01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:27,320 Speaker 1: work doctor. We're all stories about the work doctor. It's 2111 01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:31,440 Speaker 1: a complete bullshit doctor that does not help you. He's 2112 01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:34,080 Speaker 1: his wife, like Leida Ala and so he and he 2113 01:58:34,160 --> 01:58:35,560 Speaker 1: was like, no, we're going to go in this hospital. 2114 01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:37,680 Speaker 1: We think that can just go in the hospital. They 2115 01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:40,680 Speaker 1: went in there. He was suffering from kidney failure and 2116 01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:44,880 Speaker 1: he was hospitalized overnight. And here's Zach, a driver in 2117 01:58:45,080 --> 01:58:49,520 Speaker 1: Union shop steward from Oklahoma, giving his perspective on working 2118 01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:52,400 Speaker 1: in the heat, on what you and others can do 2119 01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:56,520 Speaker 1: to help workers right now, and on the massive contract 2120 01:58:56,520 --> 01:59:00,520 Speaker 1: fight that's coming next year between ups and the teams. 2121 01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:04,360 Speaker 1: We've got to do something. We've got to do something 2122 01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:09,280 Speaker 1: all over this country because there is a combination of 2123 01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:14,200 Speaker 1: the heat going up and the humidity going up. It's 2124 01:59:14,280 --> 01:59:18,960 Speaker 1: just it's people are getting eat cramps, they're getting heat exhaustion, 2125 01:59:19,040 --> 01:59:22,480 Speaker 1: they're getting heat stroke, and they're they're dying out there, 2126 01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:26,760 Speaker 1: and we're going to see more and more of it 2127 01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:35,240 Speaker 1: as the climate catastrophe gets worse. It's already happening. There 2128 01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:40,080 Speaker 1: are practical things that the company can do to invest 2129 01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:44,040 Speaker 1: in their workers, to invest in the infrastructure. They can 2130 01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:47,040 Speaker 1: put air conditioning in their buildings. They can put roof 2131 01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:50,080 Speaker 1: mounted air conditioning or exhaust events in the back of 2132 01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:54,720 Speaker 1: the package cars to draw that humid, hot air out. 2133 01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:59,120 Speaker 1: They're all r these like they exist. People have a 2134 01:59:59,160 --> 02:00:02,720 Speaker 1: need for this stuff already and their solutions for it already, 2135 02:00:03,400 --> 02:00:08,000 Speaker 1: and the money is already there. So do we invest 2136 02:00:08,040 --> 02:00:12,720 Speaker 1: in stock my backs or do we invest in the 2137 02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:19,720 Speaker 1: core thing that makes our company profitable. The company this 2138 02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:23,200 Speaker 1: has a decision to make. Carol Tomey and the people 2139 02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:26,200 Speaker 1: who are on the board, they have a decision to make. 2140 02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:29,080 Speaker 1: And our customers, when they have a choice of who 2141 02:00:29,160 --> 02:00:33,000 Speaker 1: is shipping their stuff, they have a decision to make too, 2142 02:00:34,640 --> 02:00:37,839 Speaker 1: And I want them to make that decision with all 2143 02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:42,280 Speaker 1: of the information. And so that's why this podcast is 2144 02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:44,760 Speaker 1: really important, because they may not have all the information. 2145 02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,040 Speaker 1: That's the assumption I'm going to make. I'm going to 2146 02:00:47,120 --> 02:00:52,120 Speaker 1: tell you it's hot and people are dying and you 2147 02:00:52,160 --> 02:00:57,480 Speaker 1: can do something about it. So there's the information. Please 2148 02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:01,120 Speaker 1: do something about it. Please. We need you to like 2149 02:01:01,160 --> 02:01:04,640 Speaker 1: we're in your neighborhoods, we're in your communities, we're delivering 2150 02:01:04,640 --> 02:01:08,320 Speaker 1: to your schools, we're delivering to your pharmacies. We bring 2151 02:01:08,360 --> 02:01:11,160 Speaker 1: you your food, we bring you your medicine, we bring 2152 02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:16,080 Speaker 1: you your wine. So you can have brunch. I love brunch. 2153 02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:23,480 Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing wrong with brunch. So like if 2154 02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:26,920 Speaker 1: you were getting packages that are too hot to touch, 2155 02:01:28,040 --> 02:01:30,080 Speaker 1: think about it. That has been in the back of 2156 02:01:30,120 --> 02:01:35,040 Speaker 1: a package car for maybe ten hours. So have I, 2157 02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:40,640 Speaker 1: so as Steve, so as Gabriella. And you know there 2158 02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:45,600 Speaker 1: are three hundred and thirty thousand tempsters at ups. We're 2159 02:01:45,640 --> 02:01:48,960 Speaker 1: sick of it. We're done with this stuff. It's not okay. 2160 02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:53,760 Speaker 1: We're over it, and so we're looking for victory in 2161 02:01:54,040 --> 02:01:59,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Nothing works without your workers. None of 2162 02:01:59,320 --> 02:02:02,360 Speaker 1: this works, none of your stuff gets delivered, None of 2163 02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:07,400 Speaker 1: this happens without the workers. We do the work. And 2164 02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:11,080 Speaker 1: so you can choose to invest in stock buybacks, or 2165 02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:15,720 Speaker 1: you can choose to invest in the infrastructure that brings 2166 02:02:16,160 --> 02:02:24,160 Speaker 1: all of this money, that that really moves our economy forward. 2167 02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:30,480 Speaker 1: I think that that teamsters drive this economy through our trucking, 2168 02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:36,320 Speaker 1: through our rail through our ports. Our folks were really 2169 02:02:36,720 --> 02:02:40,560 Speaker 1: hard at all this stuff. If you want to take 2170 02:02:40,600 --> 02:02:44,000 Speaker 1: care of your workers or out, what our customers can do, 2171 02:02:44,600 --> 02:02:47,080 Speaker 1: like Gabriella said, is provide us water. You know, give 2172 02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:49,640 Speaker 1: us water. I've got a cooler out on my front 2173 02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:52,440 Speaker 1: port right now with water and snacks and electrolyze. That 2174 02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:56,160 Speaker 1: stuff's important, but it is not enough. And so that's 2175 02:02:56,320 --> 02:03:00,080 Speaker 1: why if you are a customer, if you rely on 2176 02:03:00,280 --> 02:03:06,040 Speaker 1: these services to bring you your stuff, please reach out, 2177 02:03:06,400 --> 02:03:11,520 Speaker 1: Please send an email, Please let the company know how 2178 02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:14,800 Speaker 1: important it is that they take care of the workers 2179 02:03:15,520 --> 02:03:19,720 Speaker 1: who deliver all your stuff. Let them know, and then 2180 02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:25,080 Speaker 1: let the teamsters know. You know, reach out to two 2181 02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:29,160 Speaker 1: our unions, to our international to Shan O'Brien, to Fred Zuckerman, 2182 02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:32,320 Speaker 1: to the guys on our executive board. Reach out to 2183 02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:36,240 Speaker 1: your local and ask what you can do to help out. 2184 02:03:36,360 --> 02:03:41,400 Speaker 1: Because you're local, they have stuff. There are places that 2185 02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:46,640 Speaker 1: you can plug in right now to make a difference 2186 02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:50,520 Speaker 1: in your community. So reach out to your local and 2187 02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:53,960 Speaker 1: if they don't seem to know what's going on, yet 2188 02:03:54,480 --> 02:03:57,680 Speaker 1: you do because you listen to this podcast. So make 2189 02:03:57,720 --> 02:03:59,600 Speaker 1: a plan and suggest it. See what you can do 2190 02:03:59,640 --> 02:04:03,960 Speaker 1: to help out. Because this is something that affects every 2191 02:04:04,520 --> 02:04:10,000 Speaker 1: single person in this country, and because we're a global system, 2192 02:04:10,040 --> 02:04:13,960 Speaker 1: because we're a global economy, it really affects everybody. And 2193 02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:19,800 Speaker 1: because we're affected all by the current climate catastrophe, it 2194 02:04:19,840 --> 02:04:23,440 Speaker 1: really does affect all of us. So we have the 2195 02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:28,000 Speaker 1: largest private sector contract in the entire country. This company 2196 02:04:28,040 --> 02:04:33,000 Speaker 1: and this union had the opportunity to set the path 2197 02:04:33,800 --> 02:04:38,200 Speaker 1: going forward. Will they take it? I really hope they do. 2198 02:04:38,240 --> 02:04:41,880 Speaker 1: You think this was a hot labor summer, just wait 2199 02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:47,000 Speaker 1: until twenty twenty three. Workers like Zach and Gabriella and 2200 02:04:47,080 --> 02:04:52,040 Speaker 1: Steve and their union siblings aren't messing around. As New 2201 02:04:52,080 --> 02:04:55,600 Speaker 1: Teamster's president Sean O'Brien recently put it to a crowd 2202 02:04:55,640 --> 02:04:58,720 Speaker 1: at a workers rally in Boston, and the message that 2203 02:04:58,720 --> 02:05:02,720 Speaker 1: I got today for all these scumpback CEOs, for all 2204 02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:07,800 Speaker 1: these corruptible politicians and these white collar crime syndicates, you 2205 02:05:07,880 --> 02:05:16,920 Speaker 1: fuck with us. We fuck with you. Thank you for 2206 02:05:17,000 --> 02:05:20,000 Speaker 1: watching this segment with breaking points, and be sure to 2207 02:05:20,040 --> 02:05:23,040 Speaker 1: subscribe to my news outlet, The Real News with links 2208 02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:26,480 Speaker 1: in the description. See you soon for the next edition 2209 02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:30,000 Speaker 1: of the Art of Class War. Take care of Yourselves, 2210 02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:36,160 Speaker 1: Take care of each Other, Solidarity Forever. Hey there, my 2211 02:05:36,240 --> 02:05:38,680 Speaker 1: name is James Lee. Welcome to another segment of fifty 2212 02:05:38,680 --> 02:05:42,040 Speaker 1: one forty nine on Breaking Points, where we dive into 2213 02:05:42,080 --> 02:05:45,640 Speaker 1: different topics at the intersection of business, politics and society. 2214 02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:49,040 Speaker 1: And today I want to talk about stock buybacks otherwise 2215 02:05:49,160 --> 02:05:53,040 Speaker 1: known as share repurchases. We hear a lot about it, 2216 02:05:53,120 --> 02:05:54,840 Speaker 1: so I want to take a few minutes today to 2217 02:05:54,960 --> 02:05:59,040 Speaker 1: dive deep into what it is. The common talking points 2218 02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:03,960 Speaker 1: separating facts from fiction, recent policy changes and the prolonged 2219 02:06:04,000 --> 02:06:07,480 Speaker 1: impact stock buybacks have on not only the individual companies 2220 02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:11,000 Speaker 1: engaging in that practice, but also on the overall health 2221 02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:14,800 Speaker 1: of the economy and society in general. The debate around 2222 02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:18,040 Speaker 1: stock buybox has to do with how companies use their cash. 2223 02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:21,040 Speaker 1: They have access to quite a bit of it right now. 2224 02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:24,840 Speaker 1: The tax cuts in twenty seventeen, relatively high earnings and 2225 02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:28,520 Speaker 1: low interest rates have all added to corporate cash stockpiles. 2226 02:06:29,160 --> 02:06:31,880 Speaker 1: When a company is flush and has options for what 2227 02:06:31,920 --> 02:06:34,920 Speaker 1: to do with its money, it can buy other companies, 2228 02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:37,960 Speaker 1: It can spend on research and development. It can buy 2229 02:06:38,000 --> 02:06:42,400 Speaker 1: new equipment, buildings, or technologies, or it can return money 2230 02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:45,640 Speaker 1: to shareholders. This can take the form of dividends or 2231 02:06:45,760 --> 02:06:50,040 Speaker 1: stock buybacks. In the past ten years, the top twenty 2232 02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:52,480 Speaker 1: companies on the S and P five hundred bought back 2233 02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:56,040 Speaker 1: about one point three trillion in shares, with Apple leading 2234 02:06:56,080 --> 02:06:59,440 Speaker 1: the way by far. And a stock buyback a company 2235 02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:02,520 Speaker 1: purchases its own shares from shareholders and it takes them 2236 02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:07,160 Speaker 1: off the market, leaving fewer shares outstanding. This changes the 2237 02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:10,080 Speaker 1: math on the remaining shares in a key way. It 2238 02:07:10,120 --> 02:07:14,640 Speaker 1: boosts the metric called earnings per share or EPs. The 2239 02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:18,240 Speaker 1: most basic equation for EPs is the company's net income 2240 02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:21,960 Speaker 1: divided by the number of outstanding shares. So when this 2241 02:07:22,080 --> 02:07:26,480 Speaker 1: number shrinks, the EPs rises. So if a company has 2242 02:07:26,480 --> 02:07:29,160 Speaker 1: a net income of one thousand dollars and has one 2243 02:07:29,240 --> 02:07:33,760 Speaker 1: hundred shares outstanding, its EPs is ten dollars, But if 2244 02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:36,720 Speaker 1: it buys back ten of those shares, the EPs rises 2245 02:07:36,760 --> 02:07:40,879 Speaker 1: to eleven dollars and eleven cents higher per share earnings 2246 02:07:40,920 --> 02:07:44,840 Speaker 1: makes stocks look good. Making stocks look good. That really 2247 02:07:45,000 --> 02:07:49,600 Speaker 1: is the only ubiquitous north star that drives American businesses 2248 02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:53,800 Speaker 1: According to Reuter's reporting from earlier this year, US buybacks 2249 02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:57,720 Speaker 1: are at record highs. New repurchase announcements by US companies 2250 02:07:57,800 --> 02:08:00,800 Speaker 1: reached over three hundred billion dollars in the first quarter 2251 02:08:00,840 --> 02:08:03,800 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, meaning that companies are on pace 2252 02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:06,880 Speaker 1: to buy back more than a trillion dollars worth of 2253 02:08:06,960 --> 02:08:10,560 Speaker 1: their own shares this year. Compared to previous years. SNB 2254 02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:13,440 Speaker 1: five hundred companies plowed around eight hundred and eighty billion 2255 02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:16,680 Speaker 1: dollars into buying their own shares last year, up from 2256 02:08:16,840 --> 02:08:19,720 Speaker 1: five hundred and twenty billion in twenty twenty According to 2257 02:08:19,880 --> 02:08:23,240 Speaker 1: SMP Dow Jones indices like the Wall Street Journal clip 2258 02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:27,000 Speaker 1: covered earlier, this is cash that companies could have used 2259 02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:29,600 Speaker 1: to expand their operations, spend on R and D and 2260 02:08:29,680 --> 02:08:33,600 Speaker 1: capax Dare I say, invest in their workforce, but they 2261 02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:37,640 Speaker 1: chose it to artificially inflate their earnings per share? Now 2262 02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:39,840 Speaker 1: what's the issue here? Why should we be the ones 2263 02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:43,760 Speaker 1: to tell corporations and corporate executives how to spend their money. 2264 02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:47,600 Speaker 1: They are, after all, the experts in capital allocation, are 2265 02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:53,440 Speaker 1: they not? Fiveacs are an extremely important part of capital 2266 02:08:53,480 --> 02:08:57,880 Speaker 1: allocation across our economy. Buybacks are an extremely efficient way 2267 02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:03,280 Speaker 1: to reallocate capital, and nimble capital in America is what 2268 02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:07,600 Speaker 1: has driven our response to COVID. It is what has 2269 02:09:07,720 --> 02:09:10,840 Speaker 1: driven growth over time. In combination with nimble labor and 2270 02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:15,280 Speaker 1: combination with tech, education, healthcare, It's made America what it is. Okay, 2271 02:09:15,320 --> 02:09:18,120 Speaker 1: a lot to unpack there from mister J. Clayton, former 2272 02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:22,480 Speaker 1: Chairman of the SEC. He talks about nimble capital driving 2273 02:09:22,480 --> 02:09:25,880 Speaker 1: a response to COVID. What I observed was the Federal 2274 02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:28,760 Speaker 1: Reserve jumping in to save big business by injecting more 2275 02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:32,240 Speaker 1: than one point five trillion dollars into the market in 2276 02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:35,400 Speaker 1: March of twenty twenty. He also talks about nimble labor, 2277 02:09:35,440 --> 02:09:38,280 Speaker 1: which basically refers to a company's ability to adjust their 2278 02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:41,600 Speaker 1: workforce up and down based on market demands. But what 2279 02:09:41,680 --> 02:09:45,760 Speaker 1: I saw was airlines and other businesses taking government bailout money, 2280 02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:48,959 Speaker 1: money that was supposed to go to preventing mass layoffs, 2281 02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:52,760 Speaker 1: and then exploiting a loophole to lay off the workers anyway. 2282 02:09:53,440 --> 02:09:56,280 Speaker 1: He talks about how buybacks are a quote extremely efficient 2283 02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:59,880 Speaker 1: way to reallocate capital. But if we look at what 2284 02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,560 Speaker 1: but actually transpired in the days and months after the 2285 02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:06,600 Speaker 1: start of the COVID nineteen pandemic companies across many sectors. 2286 02:10:06,800 --> 02:10:11,560 Speaker 1: Profitable companies requested government bailouts because for years and years 2287 02:10:12,120 --> 02:10:15,160 Speaker 1: they had spent all their cash buying back their own stocks. 2288 02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:17,480 Speaker 1: Here is the New York Times in April twenty twenty. 2289 02:10:17,880 --> 02:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Last month, the top executives of KFC, Wendy's, Papa John's, 2290 02:10:21,680 --> 02:10:24,720 Speaker 1: and other large restaurant chains held an urgent call with 2291 02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:28,879 Speaker 1: President Trump about the coronavirus crisis. The companies needed billions 2292 02:10:28,880 --> 02:10:31,800 Speaker 1: of dollars in aid to avoid mass layoffs, the executive said. 2293 02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:34,760 Speaker 1: The next day, their trade group asked government leaders, including 2294 02:10:34,760 --> 02:10:37,480 Speaker 1: mister Trump, for one hundred and forty five billion dollars 2295 02:10:37,520 --> 02:10:41,480 Speaker 1: in relief. These companies had been highly profitable in recent years, 2296 02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:44,680 Speaker 1: yet they were seeking help from the federal government. Where 2297 02:10:44,680 --> 02:10:47,240 Speaker 1: had all their money gone. Like much of corporate America, 2298 02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:50,040 Speaker 1: the restaurant chains had spent a large chunk on buying 2299 02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:53,760 Speaker 1: back their own stock, a practice aimed at bolstring its price. 2300 02:10:54,320 --> 02:10:55,720 Speaker 1: I just want to say, if people like you and 2301 02:10:55,760 --> 02:10:58,839 Speaker 1: I did something like this, spent money with reckless abandon 2302 02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:01,760 Speaker 1: on luxuries, let's say a high end car or a 2303 02:11:01,840 --> 02:11:04,560 Speaker 1: yacht to make us look richer than we are, and 2304 02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:07,600 Speaker 1: then when bankrupt, we would be roasted to no end. 2305 02:11:07,680 --> 02:11:11,040 Speaker 1: But these folks, the corporate and political elites, have no 2306 02:11:11,200 --> 02:11:14,400 Speaker 1: problems bashing welfare for the people while at the same 2307 02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:18,920 Speaker 1: time fully supporting corporate welfare, because exactly what this is 2308 02:11:19,440 --> 02:11:22,520 Speaker 1: companies misusing their cash to make them look more valuable 2309 02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:25,480 Speaker 1: than they are, and then when the going gets tough, 2310 02:11:26,160 --> 02:11:29,560 Speaker 1: hoping to be saved by government handouts. So I completely 2311 02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:32,480 Speaker 1: reject the notion that stock buybacks and repurchases are an 2312 02:11:32,480 --> 02:11:36,240 Speaker 1: extremely efficient way to realocate capital, or even a great 2313 02:11:36,240 --> 02:11:40,560 Speaker 1: way to reward shareholders. Because let's say we were to 2314 02:11:40,720 --> 02:11:44,120 Speaker 1: entertain the shareholder primacy theory for a second, that corporations 2315 02:11:44,480 --> 02:11:47,960 Speaker 1: are to prioritize shareholder return above all of the considerations. 2316 02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:52,880 Speaker 1: Stock buybacks aren't even necessarily the best way to do it. 2317 02:11:53,400 --> 02:11:57,360 Speaker 1: The reality is for share buybacks, you reward the people 2318 02:11:57,360 --> 02:11:59,720 Speaker 1: who are leaving and selling your stock instead of rewarding 2319 02:11:59,760 --> 02:12:02,280 Speaker 1: the people who are keeping your stock. Right. But that 2320 02:12:02,280 --> 02:12:04,320 Speaker 1: goes to the whole skin in the game thing, Right, 2321 02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Don't people want skin in the game. Don't we want 2322 02:12:06,400 --> 02:12:08,480 Speaker 1: them to have skin in the game. Yeah, The problem 2323 02:12:08,560 --> 02:12:11,760 Speaker 1: is that it's really easy to financial financial engineer with 2324 02:12:11,800 --> 02:12:14,480 Speaker 1: stock buybacks. Right, there's just so many games that you 2325 02:12:14,520 --> 02:12:17,720 Speaker 1: can play, and it just creates a whole different set 2326 02:12:17,760 --> 02:12:20,600 Speaker 1: of problems. I think the fundamental issue is do you 2327 02:12:20,640 --> 02:12:24,760 Speaker 1: want to reward your shareholders for staying via dividends? Wouldn't 2328 02:12:24,760 --> 02:12:27,920 Speaker 1: you want more people who are typically not shareholders to 2329 02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:30,320 Speaker 1: come in and own the shares of your stock? Right? 2330 02:12:30,320 --> 02:12:32,920 Speaker 1: Without getting two technical the point Mark Cuban is trying 2331 02:12:32,960 --> 02:12:35,800 Speaker 1: to make here is that there are two primary ways 2332 02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:39,600 Speaker 1: to redistribute a company's earnings back to the shareholders, one 2333 02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:42,320 Speaker 1: via a stock buy back and the other via dividends. 2334 02:12:42,720 --> 02:12:45,400 Speaker 1: The former provides a short term boost to the stock 2335 02:12:45,440 --> 02:12:49,720 Speaker 1: price but can be manipulated easily by executives and company insiders, 2336 02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:53,600 Speaker 1: and the latter is usually a quarterly distribution to shareholders 2337 02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:57,720 Speaker 1: that reward, in theory long term investors for holding on 2338 02:12:57,800 --> 02:13:02,240 Speaker 1: to a company's shares. So if it's not the best way, 2339 02:13:03,000 --> 02:13:07,120 Speaker 1: why are stock buybacks oftentimes the preferred method of earnings redistribution. 2340 02:13:07,840 --> 02:13:10,600 Speaker 1: While according to a twenty nineteen paper published by the 2341 02:13:10,760 --> 02:13:14,800 Speaker 1: Roosevelt Institute that analyzed transactional data of non financial corporations 2342 02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:17,080 Speaker 1: with publicly traded stock from two thousand and five to 2343 02:13:17,200 --> 02:13:21,080 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. The researchers found that net insider sales of 2344 02:13:21,160 --> 02:13:24,160 Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand dollars are more than twice as 2345 02:13:24,240 --> 02:13:27,640 Speaker 1: common in quarters when stock buybacks are also occurring than 2346 02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:30,360 Speaker 1: in non buy back quarters, and that in quarters with 2347 02:13:30,480 --> 02:13:34,440 Speaker 1: net insider sales, buybacks are more than twice as common 2348 02:13:34,560 --> 02:13:38,360 Speaker 1: as in quarters without net insider sales, meaning that senior 2349 02:13:38,400 --> 02:13:42,480 Speaker 1: corporate executives and other company insiders were personally enriching themselves 2350 02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:46,879 Speaker 1: above and beyond retail investors and other shareholders by timing 2351 02:13:46,880 --> 02:13:51,120 Speaker 1: their stock trades based on when these buybacks were happening, which, 2352 02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:54,760 Speaker 1: of course they decide, with their gains coming at the 2353 02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:58,840 Speaker 1: expense of employees and other stakeholders. And more importantly, this 2354 02:13:58,960 --> 02:14:02,280 Speaker 1: paper also showed oh Is that this type of behavior 2355 02:14:02,520 --> 02:14:05,720 Speaker 1: isn't a one off occurrence, but rather evidence of corporate 2356 02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:09,440 Speaker 1: cronism at a systemic level. Another study conducted in twenty 2357 02:14:09,440 --> 02:14:13,480 Speaker 1: seventeen by Robert Aris and Michael Olinek, professors at INCIAD, 2358 02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:16,920 Speaker 1: a top global business school, examined on eight and thirty 2359 02:14:17,000 --> 02:14:19,720 Speaker 1: nine public companies in the United States over a five 2360 02:14:19,800 --> 02:14:23,040 Speaker 1: year time scale and found that the more money a 2361 02:14:23,160 --> 02:14:26,040 Speaker 1: firm spends on buybacks, the less likely it is to 2362 02:14:26,080 --> 02:14:28,840 Speaker 1: grow over the long term. The chart on your screen 2363 02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:31,760 Speaker 1: shows that not only does stock buybacks not lead to 2364 02:14:31,800 --> 02:14:34,920 Speaker 1: a growth in a company's market value, they are actually 2365 02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:39,600 Speaker 1: strongly correlated to a declining market value. Those findings, to me, 2366 02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:43,280 Speaker 1: are not all that surprising. It's an indisputable fact that 2367 02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:46,520 Speaker 1: any money spent on a buyback, of course, can't be 2368 02:14:46,600 --> 02:14:50,080 Speaker 1: invested elsewhere in the company. But what makes this worse 2369 02:14:50,240 --> 02:14:52,480 Speaker 1: and far more dangerous for the overall health of the 2370 02:14:52,520 --> 02:14:55,840 Speaker 1: economy is at fine if if you want to take 2371 02:14:55,880 --> 02:14:59,320 Speaker 1: on additional risk by using your company's free cash flow 2372 02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:01,680 Speaker 1: to buy back you own shares. Okay, fine, that's that's 2373 02:15:02,120 --> 02:15:05,040 Speaker 1: up to you. But that's not what's actually happening in 2374 02:15:05,280 --> 02:15:08,640 Speaker 1: a majority of these cases. This is an alarming headline 2375 02:15:08,680 --> 02:15:12,600 Speaker 1: from Fortune magazine. More than half of all stock buybacks 2376 02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:16,560 Speaker 1: are now financed by debt. So it's not just that 2377 02:15:16,720 --> 02:15:20,440 Speaker 1: corporations are spending their own money to financially engineered metrics 2378 02:15:20,440 --> 02:15:22,960 Speaker 1: that make them appear more valuable than they actually are. 2379 02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:26,720 Speaker 1: They are borrowing money to do so, which is extremely 2380 02:15:26,760 --> 02:15:30,960 Speaker 1: precarious given the scale and prevalence of buybacks. Like we 2381 02:15:31,040 --> 02:15:34,960 Speaker 1: talked about on pace for over a trillion dollars this year. Right. 2382 02:15:35,240 --> 02:15:37,320 Speaker 1: It's one thing of a company takes on debt to 2383 02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:42,960 Speaker 1: finance investments in potential future productive capabilities like new facilities 2384 02:15:43,040 --> 02:15:46,960 Speaker 1: or R and D. But taking on debt to finance buybacks, 2385 02:15:47,000 --> 02:15:51,920 Speaker 1: which gives you zero revenue generating contributions that can help 2386 02:15:51,960 --> 02:15:54,600 Speaker 1: pay off this debt in the future, means that companies 2387 02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:57,720 Speaker 1: engaging in this practice are exposing themselves to a lot 2388 02:15:57,760 --> 02:16:00,760 Speaker 1: more financial risk in the long run. From the Harvard 2389 02:16:00,760 --> 02:16:04,440 Speaker 1: Business Review quote, whether it is corporate debt or government 2390 02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:08,120 Speaker 1: debt that funds additional buybacks, it is the underlying problem 2391 02:16:08,160 --> 02:16:11,320 Speaker 1: of the corporate obsession with stock price performance that makes 2392 02:16:11,480 --> 02:16:14,680 Speaker 1: us households more vulnerable to the boom and bust economy. 2393 02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:20,320 Speaker 1: Debt finance buybacks reinforce financial fragility. But it is stock buybacks, 2394 02:16:20,360 --> 02:16:23,879 Speaker 1: however funded, that undermined the quest for equitable and stable 2395 02:16:23,920 --> 02:16:28,520 Speaker 1: economic growth. So yeah, buybacks have far reaching negative implications 2396 02:16:28,520 --> 02:16:32,560 Speaker 1: for economic and societal stability. So let's take a moment 2397 02:16:32,720 --> 02:16:37,640 Speaker 1: to discuss recent policy changes addressing the issue of stock buybacks. 2398 02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:40,600 Speaker 1: Within the Inflation Reduction Act that has just been signed 2399 02:16:40,600 --> 02:16:43,800 Speaker 1: into law, there is a new one percent excise tax 2400 02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:47,800 Speaker 1: on corporate stock buybacks, presumably to rein in corporations and 2401 02:16:47,840 --> 02:16:51,800 Speaker 1: disincentivize them from engaging in this practice. Now, how does 2402 02:16:51,840 --> 02:16:54,640 Speaker 1: Wall Street feel about this? The future of stock buybacks 2403 02:16:54,640 --> 02:16:57,280 Speaker 1: in focus today on where Democrats appear poised to pass 2404 02:16:57,320 --> 02:17:01,320 Speaker 1: their Inflation Reduction Act, which includes an one percent excise 2405 02:17:01,360 --> 02:17:03,720 Speaker 1: tax on that practice. The question is whether it will 2406 02:17:03,760 --> 02:17:06,480 Speaker 1: in fact have a material impact or not what that 2407 02:17:06,600 --> 02:17:09,120 Speaker 1: might mean for stocks. I don't really think it's a 2408 02:17:09,120 --> 02:17:12,320 Speaker 1: big deal. One percent buy back tax is about less 2409 02:17:12,360 --> 02:17:14,960 Speaker 1: than half of a percent to S and P five 2410 02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:17,360 Speaker 1: hundred earnings number one. I just don't think it's big 2411 02:17:17,440 --> 02:17:20,280 Speaker 1: enough for companies to change their strategy. And they're generating 2412 02:17:20,320 --> 02:17:23,199 Speaker 1: so much free cash flow they do want to return 2413 02:17:23,240 --> 02:17:27,000 Speaker 1: it to shareholders. I think on the margin, maybe they 2414 02:17:27,040 --> 02:17:30,640 Speaker 1: shift incrementally to more dividends versus buybacks. But I don't 2415 02:17:30,640 --> 02:17:33,560 Speaker 1: think this is going to be material interesting The one 2416 02:17:33,600 --> 02:17:37,520 Speaker 1: percent tax is immaterial, doesn't matter, you See. The thing 2417 02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:39,840 Speaker 1: we have to understand is that in this era of 2418 02:17:39,840 --> 02:17:42,680 Speaker 1: American politics, where there is an unlimited sum of money 2419 02:17:43,120 --> 02:17:46,280 Speaker 1: freely flowing back and forth between the government and the 2420 02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:50,400 Speaker 1: private sector, there are no laws on the books that 2421 02:17:50,520 --> 02:17:53,959 Speaker 1: aren't endorsed by the corporate elite. It may not be 2422 02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:57,400 Speaker 1: exactly what they want in this instance. I'm certain that 2423 02:17:57,440 --> 02:17:59,840 Speaker 1: they would prefer no tax at all, but given the 2424 02:17:59,840 --> 02:18:02,959 Speaker 1: cur climate and political sentiment, they can live with the 2425 02:18:03,000 --> 02:18:05,840 Speaker 1: one percent. In fact, it might even benefit them in 2426 02:18:05,879 --> 02:18:09,279 Speaker 1: the long run. David Dahan, in some great reporting, highlights 2427 02:18:09,320 --> 02:18:12,440 Speaker 1: this exact point in the American Prospect quote. The bigger 2428 02:18:12,560 --> 02:18:15,640 Speaker 1: problem is that the excise tax cuts the government in 2429 02:18:15,879 --> 02:18:19,520 Speaker 1: on the buyback scam. Not only will shareholders and executives 2430 02:18:19,560 --> 02:18:22,840 Speaker 1: continue to benefit over workers in capital investment, but so 2431 02:18:22,959 --> 02:18:26,480 Speaker 1: will the US Treasury. Henceforth, if you try to limit buybacks, 2432 02:18:26,480 --> 02:18:29,800 Speaker 1: which the Biden administration proposed in its twenty twenty three budget, 2433 02:18:30,120 --> 02:18:32,600 Speaker 1: that will cost the government money. If you try to 2434 02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:35,520 Speaker 1: ban them, which the SEC could do simply by removing 2435 02:18:35,560 --> 02:18:37,840 Speaker 1: the safe harbor put in place in nineteen eighty two 2436 02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:41,600 Speaker 1: that effectively decriminalize the practice, that would cost the government 2437 02:18:41,720 --> 02:18:44,600 Speaker 1: even more so. I don't think it's an accident at 2438 02:18:44,640 --> 02:18:47,520 Speaker 1: all that the Inflation Reduction Act is riddled with corporate 2439 02:18:47,520 --> 02:18:52,000 Speaker 1: loopholes and handouts. It's corporate welfare in disguise. There is 2440 02:18:52,400 --> 02:18:55,840 Speaker 1: nothing in there that Wall Street can't live with, and 2441 02:18:55,879 --> 02:18:58,200 Speaker 1: if it's something they absolutely don't want to live with, 2442 02:18:58,760 --> 02:19:02,440 Speaker 1: its one hundred percent gone allah the last minute removal 2443 02:19:02,560 --> 02:19:05,480 Speaker 1: of the carried interest tax provision. The point I'm trying 2444 02:19:05,520 --> 02:19:08,520 Speaker 1: to make is, you know, don't be confused by the 2445 02:19:08,560 --> 02:19:11,640 Speaker 1: free market. There is always somebody making up the rules 2446 02:19:11,640 --> 02:19:15,959 Speaker 1: to the game. Senior corporate executives will forever be incentivized 2447 02:19:15,959 --> 02:19:18,880 Speaker 1: to enrich themselves and their shareholders without regard for their 2448 02:19:18,879 --> 02:19:22,280 Speaker 1: employees or society in general. And buybacks are a great 2449 02:19:22,320 --> 02:19:26,000 Speaker 1: example of this. Great for corporate insiders, but bad for 2450 02:19:26,080 --> 02:19:30,120 Speaker 1: everyone else. And if we acknowledge that there is maybe 2451 02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:32,840 Speaker 1: more to America than allowing a small group of people 2452 02:19:32,840 --> 02:19:35,280 Speaker 1: to make as much money as possible, then it's up 2453 02:19:35,360 --> 02:19:38,680 Speaker 1: to us, no matter how critical or skeptical we are, 2454 02:19:38,840 --> 02:19:42,720 Speaker 1: of government power, to force our elected public servants to 2455 02:19:42,800 --> 02:19:47,039 Speaker 1: create rules and guardrails that decentralized power and put it 2456 02:19:47,120 --> 02:19:49,879 Speaker 1: back in the hands of the American people. That's it 2457 02:19:49,920 --> 02:19:51,959 Speaker 1: for me today. I hope you found this segment about 2458 02:19:52,000 --> 02:19:55,360 Speaker 1: stock buybacks to be helpful and informative. If you enjoyed it, 2459 02:19:55,400 --> 02:19:57,920 Speaker 1: I would encourage you to head on over and subscribe 2460 02:19:57,920 --> 02:20:00,480 Speaker 1: to my YouTube channel fifty one five forty nine with 2461 02:20:00,560 --> 02:20:04,480 Speaker 1: James Lee Why I make videos on topics related to business, politics, society. 2462 02:20:05,240 --> 02:20:07,920 Speaker 1: The link will be in the description below. Thank you 2463 02:20:07,959 --> 02:20:10,440 Speaker 1: for tuning in to Breaking Points and as always, I 2464 02:20:10,480 --> 02:20:17,160 Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Hey, Breaking Points, Marshall. Here, I'm with 2465 02:20:17,360 --> 02:20:21,080 Speaker 1: Derek Robertson of Politico. He wrote a funny but also 2466 02:20:21,160 --> 02:20:26,080 Speaker 1: important piece about how politicians are terrible podcasters. Now, Derek, 2467 02:20:26,120 --> 02:20:28,080 Speaker 1: I know, but half of the audience is already rolling 2468 02:20:28,120 --> 02:20:31,440 Speaker 1: their eyes. This is superficial, This is vapid. Why is 2469 02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:35,000 Speaker 1: you listening to ten hours of politician podcast? Why is 2470 02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:37,720 Speaker 1: that important? There's bigger issues in the world. Why do 2471 02:20:37,760 --> 02:20:40,920 Speaker 1: you think jokes aside? This is an important topic we 2472 02:20:40,920 --> 02:20:43,879 Speaker 1: should be thinking about. Well, it involved you know. The 2473 02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:46,440 Speaker 1: reason I wrote this, and the reason it evolved from 2474 02:20:46,440 --> 02:20:49,080 Speaker 1: just a funny observation about how every politician seems to 2475 02:20:49,120 --> 02:20:51,080 Speaker 1: feel the need to, you know, as player, to be 2476 02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:55,400 Speaker 1: the next Joe Rogan or something, was because it is 2477 02:20:55,760 --> 02:20:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, communication is a part of being a politician. 2478 02:20:58,879 --> 02:21:01,800 Speaker 1: You know, if politicians weren'tmmunicators, they would be policy monks, 2479 02:21:01,800 --> 02:21:04,080 Speaker 1: they would be lawyers, they would be any number of 2480 02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:09,520 Speaker 1: other things. You know, it's an effective way politicians have 2481 02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:13,600 Speaker 1: historically used media to build followings, build support for their 2482 02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:16,240 Speaker 1: pet political causes. You think of FDR with radio, You 2483 02:21:16,240 --> 02:21:20,160 Speaker 1: think of you know, Reagan being the kind of president 2484 02:21:20,200 --> 02:21:23,640 Speaker 1: of the TV and pop culture era, and obviously Trump 2485 02:21:23,920 --> 02:21:28,120 Speaker 1: being literally a reality television star who became president. It is, 2486 02:21:28,280 --> 02:21:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, the way politicians choose to communicate with the 2487 02:21:30,560 --> 02:21:33,400 Speaker 1: public is important, and it just so happens that what 2488 02:21:33,480 --> 02:21:35,800 Speaker 1: I found after, as you said, listening to ten straight 2489 02:21:35,800 --> 02:21:38,680 Speaker 1: hours of podcasts hosted by politicians, is that it is 2490 02:21:38,720 --> 02:21:41,880 Speaker 1: a medium that is uniquely unsuited to who they are 2491 02:21:41,920 --> 02:21:44,320 Speaker 1: and sort of what their duties are and the way 2492 02:21:44,360 --> 02:21:47,760 Speaker 1: they are allowed to function as public figures. Yeah. The 2493 02:21:47,800 --> 02:21:50,800 Speaker 1: interesting kind of meta thing above all this is a 2494 02:21:50,840 --> 02:21:54,160 Speaker 1: lot of politicians are explicitly deciding that they no longer 2495 02:21:54,520 --> 02:21:58,400 Speaker 1: should engage with the press, with interviewers. There's nothing in 2496 02:21:58,440 --> 02:22:00,400 Speaker 1: it for them. Why should they give content people who 2497 02:22:00,400 --> 02:22:02,960 Speaker 1: are trying to tear them down. So they see podcasting 2498 02:22:02,959 --> 02:22:05,080 Speaker 1: as a way to get direct with people, to talk 2499 02:22:05,120 --> 02:22:07,160 Speaker 1: to the audience they actually want to speak to about 2500 02:22:07,160 --> 02:22:10,920 Speaker 1: having to actually let's say, get not even gotcha questions, 2501 02:22:10,959 --> 02:22:13,119 Speaker 1: but tough questions then you don't really want to hit 2502 02:22:13,320 --> 02:22:15,400 Speaker 1: What do you think about that theory before we get 2503 02:22:15,440 --> 02:22:19,080 Speaker 1: into actual podcasting, Like, is it possible politicians will be 2504 02:22:19,080 --> 02:22:23,160 Speaker 1: able to go around outside gatekeepers, whether they're left right 2505 02:22:23,240 --> 02:22:26,879 Speaker 1: or center. It's funny. This is an element that I 2506 02:22:26,879 --> 02:22:29,720 Speaker 1: wanted to include in the piece that I wrote, but 2507 02:22:29,800 --> 02:22:32,039 Speaker 1: ended up not including just for reasons of you know, 2508 02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:36,279 Speaker 1: attempting to be concise for once. But there's a similar 2509 02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:39,640 Speaker 1: phenomenon of this happening in sports. I'm not sure if 2510 02:22:39,640 --> 02:22:42,720 Speaker 1: you're an NBA fan or for the viewers. Draymond Green 2511 02:22:42,760 --> 02:22:44,640 Speaker 1: and the Golden State Warriors has made a bit. He 2512 02:22:44,760 --> 02:22:47,080 Speaker 1: started his own podcast recently, and he's made a huge 2513 02:22:47,080 --> 02:22:51,000 Speaker 1: deal out of how players, NBA players and other athletes 2514 02:22:51,080 --> 02:22:53,880 Speaker 1: doing their own media. Is the quote new media as 2515 02:22:53,920 --> 02:22:58,320 Speaker 1: opposed to the old media, you know, comprised of actual journalists. 2516 02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:01,640 Speaker 1: The idea that you can somehow get it's you know, 2517 02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:04,280 Speaker 1: closer to the truth or get a more kind of 2518 02:23:04,920 --> 02:23:09,120 Speaker 1: an experience of more veracity or authenticity by foregoing any 2519 02:23:09,200 --> 02:23:12,880 Speaker 1: kind of media interlocutor and just bringing people content yourself. 2520 02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:16,360 Speaker 1: And sometimes with Draymond Green's podcast, that's very entertaining because 2521 02:23:16,400 --> 02:23:19,200 Speaker 1: he's a really entertaining guy. Also, he's a pro athlete 2522 02:23:19,200 --> 02:23:21,280 Speaker 1: and is not behold into the same kind of speech 2523 02:23:21,360 --> 02:23:24,920 Speaker 1: norms and incentives the politicians are. I think that with 2524 02:23:25,080 --> 02:23:29,600 Speaker 1: politicians sort of circumventing media and speaking directly to the faithful, 2525 02:23:29,640 --> 02:23:32,440 Speaker 1: as it were, through their own platforms, I think that, 2526 02:23:33,240 --> 02:23:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, you can be very successful in building a 2527 02:23:37,840 --> 02:23:41,000 Speaker 1: niche audience with that. Ted Cruz's podcast, as I write about, 2528 02:23:41,080 --> 02:23:44,280 Speaker 1: is actually very popular. It's consistently in sort of this 2529 02:23:44,360 --> 02:23:46,520 Speaker 1: top forty to fifty on the podcast charts if I'm 2530 02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:52,440 Speaker 1: remembering correctly, But the vast majority of people are not 2531 02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:56,400 Speaker 1: going to you know, I think that the idea that 2532 02:23:56,520 --> 02:23:59,560 Speaker 1: you can build an entire media platform and be an 2533 02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:04,920 Speaker 1: effective of politician based solely on your own sort of 2534 02:24:05,240 --> 02:24:08,440 Speaker 1: media stream is kind of a myopic one, and it's 2535 02:24:08,520 --> 02:24:11,000 Speaker 1: kind of one that hems you into playing to the base. 2536 02:24:11,360 --> 02:24:13,560 Speaker 1: Of course, there's any number of arguments that could be 2537 02:24:13,560 --> 02:24:15,920 Speaker 1: made that that is the most effective political strategy to 2538 02:24:15,920 --> 02:24:18,360 Speaker 1: take in the era we live in, but I don't 2539 02:24:18,440 --> 02:24:24,959 Speaker 1: think that, you know, I'm very skeptical that that will 2540 02:24:25,040 --> 02:24:28,959 Speaker 1: be a totally viable media strategy because at some point, 2541 02:24:28,959 --> 02:24:34,160 Speaker 1: depending on how larger ambitions are you need, you need 2542 02:24:34,160 --> 02:24:36,480 Speaker 1: to reach people outside of your little echo chamber, and 2543 02:24:36,520 --> 02:24:39,920 Speaker 1: you can't really do that when without interlockutors, without someone's 2544 02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of vouch for you, to give you credibility with 2545 02:24:41,680 --> 02:24:44,520 Speaker 1: a different audience than who you're used to. Yeah, and 2546 02:24:44,520 --> 02:24:46,200 Speaker 1: it's funny. I'm glad you brought up Bream and Green 2547 02:24:46,200 --> 02:24:48,440 Speaker 1: because that gets to the core of the actual challenge here. 2548 02:24:48,480 --> 02:24:53,120 Speaker 1: I think on one level, politicians aren't your friend. You 2549 02:24:53,160 --> 02:24:55,120 Speaker 1: and you write about this, but you know, you know 2550 02:24:55,200 --> 02:24:59,360 Speaker 1: the podcasting medium, someone's in your ear, you're watching them. 2551 02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:02,400 Speaker 1: It feels directed, feels different, and you know, if Dreamond 2552 02:25:02,440 --> 02:25:05,000 Speaker 1: Green wants to interact with a very specific way, like 2553 02:25:05,040 --> 02:25:08,880 Speaker 1: that's different than a politician who has objectives who's trying 2554 02:25:08,920 --> 02:25:13,680 Speaker 1: to win. I hope that listeners and audiences can understand 2555 02:25:13,720 --> 02:25:16,560 Speaker 1: that it's slightly cynical to think that we could just 2556 02:25:16,600 --> 02:25:19,080 Speaker 1: go around things, because look, we get it. We've all 2557 02:25:19,120 --> 02:25:22,480 Speaker 1: seen a bad faith media interview. Maybe some of us 2558 02:25:22,480 --> 02:25:25,640 Speaker 1: have given bad faith media interviews before, if I'm entirely 2559 02:25:25,720 --> 02:25:27,720 Speaker 1: honest with myself. But at the same time, like you 2560 02:25:27,720 --> 02:25:30,400 Speaker 1: should remember that what a politician is saying when they 2561 02:25:30,440 --> 02:25:32,600 Speaker 1: say let's just go around all the gatekeepers. Is they're 2562 02:25:32,600 --> 02:25:34,600 Speaker 1: basically saying, I want to be able to say my 2563 02:25:34,760 --> 02:25:37,119 Speaker 1: talking points that me and my staff wrote to you 2564 02:25:38,040 --> 02:25:40,879 Speaker 1: without anyone asking for a follow up question. That's what's 2565 02:25:40,920 --> 02:25:43,760 Speaker 1: actually being set here. So here's my question for you. Then, 2566 02:25:44,240 --> 02:25:47,400 Speaker 1: what was the experience like actually listening to these shows? 2567 02:25:47,480 --> 02:25:50,440 Speaker 1: Like what shows were the best? Shows, which formats weren't 2568 02:25:50,480 --> 02:25:53,840 Speaker 1: particularly effective? Was there any difference between whether Republicans or 2569 02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:56,160 Speaker 1: Democrats were good at the medium? Like? What did you find? 2570 02:25:57,080 --> 02:25:59,520 Speaker 1: So there are two main points I want to make here. 2571 02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:02,520 Speaker 1: One of them is that I was very sort of 2572 02:26:03,160 --> 02:26:05,959 Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised by how And again maybe this was just 2573 02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:09,600 Speaker 1: by contrast, or maybe I was experiencing Stockholm syndrome. Dan 2574 02:26:09,720 --> 02:26:14,240 Speaker 1: Crenshaw's podcast was pretty enjoyable. It's really just kind of 2575 02:26:14,280 --> 02:26:19,520 Speaker 1: a chatty you know, it doesn't really have a strong structure. 2576 02:26:19,600 --> 02:26:23,560 Speaker 1: It feels the most like a normal podcast. He will 2577 02:26:23,600 --> 02:26:26,840 Speaker 1: just some of them are. It's an interview format. This 2578 02:26:26,879 --> 02:26:28,160 Speaker 1: kind of ties into the other point I was trying 2579 02:26:28,200 --> 02:26:30,280 Speaker 1: to make. It is an interview format in that he 2580 02:26:30,480 --> 02:26:33,879 Speaker 1: is the host and he brings on various guests, but frequently, 2581 02:26:34,160 --> 02:26:36,960 Speaker 1: frequently these guests are simply friends of his like Representative 2582 02:26:37,000 --> 02:26:39,560 Speaker 1: Mike Gallagher, and it's really just two kind of like 2583 02:26:40,160 --> 02:26:43,520 Speaker 1: nerdy gen X politician guys chatting about like which Batman 2584 02:26:43,640 --> 02:26:47,640 Speaker 1: is the best for ten minutes or something. It approximates 2585 02:26:47,920 --> 02:26:50,080 Speaker 1: the most closely of any of these that I listened to, 2586 02:26:50,120 --> 02:26:52,879 Speaker 1: what the normal experience of listening to a podcast is like. 2587 02:26:54,560 --> 02:27:00,320 Speaker 1: So the second point is that most politicians fought on 2588 02:27:00,560 --> 02:27:05,560 Speaker 1: kind of a stock podcast format, that is the interview show. 2589 02:27:06,240 --> 02:27:08,199 Speaker 1: So many of these that I listen to are basically 2590 02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:11,640 Speaker 1: just politicians attempting to be like do the Ezra Client 2591 02:27:11,680 --> 02:27:14,600 Speaker 1: show basically and to do kind of a long searching 2592 02:27:14,640 --> 02:27:20,240 Speaker 1: interview with one subject. And this does something that it 2593 02:27:20,280 --> 02:27:22,480 Speaker 1: goes hand in hand with what you are describing, which 2594 02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:24,880 Speaker 1: is the fact that when when you're doing the kind 2595 02:27:24,879 --> 02:27:28,720 Speaker 1: of new media bit, you have a captive you have 2596 02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:31,760 Speaker 1: a captive audience, and you have total control of the 2597 02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:34,840 Speaker 1: medium and the message that you were creating. By being 2598 02:27:34,879 --> 02:27:39,160 Speaker 1: the interviewer instead of the interviewee, it effectively allows politicians 2599 02:27:39,200 --> 02:27:41,360 Speaker 1: not only to not have to answer questions that they 2600 02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:44,080 Speaker 1: don't want to answer, they set the terms of the 2601 02:27:44,120 --> 02:27:47,959 Speaker 1: conversation and they kind of take the reflected you know, 2602 02:27:48,080 --> 02:27:52,039 Speaker 1: you curate the guests to reflect your own this is 2603 02:27:52,040 --> 02:27:54,400 Speaker 1: what I'm interested in, this is who I want to platform, 2604 02:27:54,480 --> 02:27:57,440 Speaker 1: this is who I am allied with, And it ends 2605 02:27:57,520 --> 02:28:00,520 Speaker 1: up being incredibly boring because most of the sessions are 2606 02:28:00,560 --> 02:28:06,680 Speaker 1: not good interviewers. Good good interviewing requires a level of confrontationalism. 2607 02:28:06,760 --> 02:28:09,840 Speaker 1: It requires a level of kind of willingness to prick 2608 02:28:10,000 --> 02:28:16,160 Speaker 1: under the superficial sort of surface of what it is 2609 02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:19,720 Speaker 1: that you are nominally talking about. And most politicians do 2610 02:28:19,800 --> 02:28:21,400 Speaker 1: not want to do that because they don't do not 2611 02:28:21,440 --> 02:28:24,080 Speaker 1: want to create friction because the podcast is essentially a 2612 02:28:24,160 --> 02:28:27,280 Speaker 1: vanity platform for their political project. A good example of 2613 02:28:27,320 --> 02:28:29,920 Speaker 1: this was I hate to say it because he is, 2614 02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:32,720 Speaker 1: as I write and the piece, a great broadcaster, literally 2615 02:28:32,760 --> 02:28:36,680 Speaker 1: a Grammy winning broadcaster for reading his audiobooks. But Al 2616 02:28:36,760 --> 02:28:39,400 Speaker 1: Franken's podcast could be a tough listen at times because 2617 02:28:39,800 --> 02:28:43,280 Speaker 1: he is potting, he's plotting a political comeback. You know 2618 02:28:43,440 --> 02:28:46,400 Speaker 1: that there are questions he wants to ask people that 2619 02:28:46,440 --> 02:28:48,440 Speaker 1: are sort of just bubbling up under the certain You know, 2620 02:28:48,560 --> 02:28:50,320 Speaker 1: Al Franken is a guy with an active wit and 2621 02:28:50,400 --> 02:28:54,320 Speaker 1: active and intelligence, and you can tell that there are 2622 02:28:54,320 --> 02:28:56,040 Speaker 1: things that are just off limits that he does not 2623 02:28:56,120 --> 02:28:57,879 Speaker 1: want to talk to people about so it makes for 2624 02:28:57,879 --> 02:29:01,120 Speaker 1: a very dull The interview format just makes for an 2625 02:29:01,160 --> 02:29:04,160 Speaker 1: incredibly dull program. He Boudages was guilty of this is too. 2626 02:29:04,240 --> 02:29:08,400 Speaker 1: His podcast was just astonishingly dull in that way. You 2627 02:29:08,520 --> 02:29:13,160 Speaker 1: reference this. But whatever happened with President Obama's podcast Renegades 2628 02:29:13,360 --> 02:29:16,960 Speaker 1: Yes with Bruce Springsteen. I wrestled over whether it's to 2629 02:29:17,240 --> 02:29:20,440 Speaker 1: include this in the article, and I ended up not 2630 02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:25,600 Speaker 1: including it because it is so it's such a strange. 2631 02:29:26,280 --> 02:29:28,760 Speaker 1: You know, I was saying that these these are vanity projects, 2632 02:29:28,760 --> 02:29:34,400 Speaker 1: but that's a vanity project. It's really you know, presumably 2633 02:29:34,560 --> 02:29:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what the numbers were, you know, Spotify 2634 02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:40,200 Speaker 1: thought this was going to be a blockbuster podcast. It's 2635 02:29:40,240 --> 02:29:42,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's Obama And for viewers who don't know, 2636 02:29:42,320 --> 02:29:46,880 Speaker 1: Obama did a podcast with Bruce Springsteen where they had 2637 02:29:46,959 --> 02:29:51,680 Speaker 1: kind of these like sort of freewheeling conversations about various 2638 02:29:51,720 --> 02:29:56,960 Speaker 1: topics like the masculinity, race, politics, et cetera. It's actually 2639 02:29:57,120 --> 02:29:59,600 Speaker 1: pretty entertaining. I listened to a few episodes of it. 2640 02:29:59,600 --> 02:30:01,560 Speaker 1: It's it's not not bad, but it's one of those 2641 02:30:01,560 --> 02:30:03,000 Speaker 1: things where you listen to it and you just go 2642 02:30:03,240 --> 02:30:06,760 Speaker 1: I don't know who this is for. It's it doesn't 2643 02:30:07,000 --> 02:30:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, Obama being the measured guy that he is. 2644 02:30:12,560 --> 02:30:16,120 Speaker 1: It's not, it's not. It doesn't have the kind of 2645 02:30:16,160 --> 02:30:20,520 Speaker 1: like Crackle and Pop, the like really good conversational podcasts 2646 02:30:20,520 --> 02:30:24,240 Speaker 1: that talk about various controversial political issues. To you know, 2647 02:30:24,280 --> 02:30:26,560 Speaker 1: Springsteen is good springs to anyone who's ever seen like 2648 02:30:26,600 --> 02:30:29,119 Speaker 1: live footage at a Springsteen concert. He's a master storyteller 2649 02:30:29,120 --> 02:30:30,920 Speaker 1: and it's just fun to listen to him talk. But 2650 02:30:31,000 --> 02:30:33,160 Speaker 1: he could he's to us a cliche. He could read 2651 02:30:33,160 --> 02:30:35,240 Speaker 1: the phone book and it would be entertaining. But this 2652 02:30:35,240 --> 02:30:38,840 Speaker 1: this show got they they stopped making episodes of it. 2653 02:30:38,879 --> 02:30:42,600 Speaker 1: I actually I think it was part of the Obama's 2654 02:30:43,920 --> 02:30:47,200 Speaker 1: there People will likely remember that Michelle Obama also had 2655 02:30:47,240 --> 02:30:54,320 Speaker 1: a big podcast deal with Spotify. I too, I wrestled 2656 02:30:54,360 --> 02:30:56,840 Speaker 1: with whether to include this because I think the Obama 2657 02:30:56,879 --> 02:31:01,600 Speaker 1: is deciding to basically become media influencers post presidency is 2658 02:31:01,680 --> 02:31:04,320 Speaker 1: worthy of its own examination, and that it didn't really 2659 02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:08,280 Speaker 1: tie into my premise of examining how sitting politicians use 2660 02:31:08,320 --> 02:31:10,240 Speaker 1: this as a platform to further their ambitions and their 2661 02:31:10,240 --> 02:31:15,000 Speaker 1: political projects. But yeah, the Obama's podcasts are done. So 2662 02:31:15,160 --> 02:31:18,320 Speaker 1: the last two questions here. A question one would be 2663 02:31:19,320 --> 02:31:22,400 Speaker 1: you noted there's actually like a they're far more like 2664 02:31:22,480 --> 02:31:28,959 Speaker 1: republican podcast than democratic podcasts, and the Republican ones tend 2665 02:31:29,040 --> 02:31:31,360 Speaker 1: to do better. I'm curious, like what your theory of 2666 02:31:31,400 --> 02:31:34,360 Speaker 1: the case for why that would be true is. I 2667 02:31:34,360 --> 02:31:35,840 Speaker 1: think there are a couple of things going on there. 2668 02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:38,160 Speaker 1: There's I think there's just more of an appetite for them. 2669 02:31:38,680 --> 02:31:42,840 Speaker 1: This is this pre dates podcasting. You know, in the 2670 02:31:43,280 --> 02:31:48,520 Speaker 1: you have the dominance of Republicans and conservatives on talk 2671 02:31:48,640 --> 02:31:52,080 Speaker 1: radio for many, many decades. People, you know someone, it 2672 02:31:52,080 --> 02:31:54,240 Speaker 1: seemed like someone would write an article every two years 2673 02:31:54,240 --> 02:31:55,920 Speaker 1: going you know, why can't the left? Why is there 2674 02:31:55,959 --> 02:31:59,880 Speaker 1: why isn't there popular left broadcasting personality or service? And 2675 02:32:00,000 --> 02:32:04,560 Speaker 1: and you know there was Air America if viewers will remember, 2676 02:32:04,600 --> 02:32:06,920 Speaker 1: which was the attempt during the Bush era to compete 2677 02:32:06,959 --> 02:32:10,160 Speaker 1: with right wing talk radio, and which featured Al Frankin 2678 02:32:10,200 --> 02:32:14,240 Speaker 1: coincidentally before he became a senator. I think that there 2679 02:32:14,520 --> 02:32:24,920 Speaker 1: is right right wing rhetoric lends itself much more easily 2680 02:32:25,000 --> 02:32:31,600 Speaker 1: to creating the kind of closed epistemological garden that makes 2681 02:32:31,680 --> 02:32:36,720 Speaker 1: for good badget prop You know, if you are having 2682 02:32:36,760 --> 02:32:40,520 Speaker 1: a podcast where I'm trying to imagine. You know, the 2683 02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:44,760 Speaker 1: popular left podcasts tend to be ones that are really 2684 02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:47,800 Speaker 1: angry and that kind of mimic the tone of right 2685 02:32:47,800 --> 02:32:51,440 Speaker 1: wing radio and rile people up. Tell them, I know 2686 02:32:51,520 --> 02:32:53,280 Speaker 1: this is what you want to hear. None of those 2687 02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:54,879 Speaker 1: bastards want me to say it to you, but I'm 2688 02:32:54,879 --> 02:32:57,120 Speaker 1: going to say it anyway, and like we are all 2689 02:32:57,120 --> 02:32:58,720 Speaker 1: going to get We're going to have our moment of 2690 02:32:58,720 --> 02:33:02,440 Speaker 1: Catharsist together. You think about the popular media approaches that 2691 02:33:02,520 --> 02:33:04,520 Speaker 1: left doing politicians have had in that vein have been 2692 02:33:04,600 --> 02:33:07,680 Speaker 1: like on one level, you have tropo Trapouse, which is 2693 02:33:07,680 --> 02:33:10,520 Speaker 1: like a total diy thing, and then you have like 2694 02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:14,720 Speaker 1: Michael Moore, who's a populist documentarian who largely in a 2695 02:33:14,720 --> 02:33:18,480 Speaker 1: different medium, sort of does the same thing rhetorically that 2696 02:33:18,640 --> 02:33:20,800 Speaker 1: right wing talk hosts are doing. So I think that 2697 02:33:20,840 --> 02:33:24,640 Speaker 1: the right wing mode of rhetoric just lends itself better 2698 02:33:24,720 --> 02:33:29,240 Speaker 1: to the format. The second is I mean, this is 2699 02:33:29,280 --> 02:33:31,840 Speaker 1: actually just part of the same point, but there's a 2700 02:33:31,920 --> 02:33:35,400 Speaker 1: huge legacy audience built in a lot of the you know, 2701 02:33:36,840 --> 02:33:39,959 Speaker 1: a lot of the popular podcast political podcasts now are 2702 02:33:39,959 --> 02:33:43,720 Speaker 1: from old school right wing radio guys like Mark Levin 2703 02:33:44,640 --> 02:33:46,560 Speaker 1: people like that. So you just have a lot of 2704 02:33:46,560 --> 02:33:49,240 Speaker 1: foldover from people who are loyal radio listeners and now 2705 02:33:49,720 --> 02:33:55,480 Speaker 1: are doing the podcast routine. So the last question would be, Look, 2706 02:33:55,680 --> 02:33:59,320 Speaker 1: we can say that politicians are bad at podcasting all 2707 02:33:59,360 --> 02:34:01,760 Speaker 1: we want, They are going to do it anyways. It's 2708 02:34:01,760 --> 02:34:05,119 Speaker 1: a new format. That's the reality. What would be your 2709 02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:09,160 Speaker 1: advice if you were a comms director for a Democrat 2710 02:34:09,240 --> 02:34:11,640 Speaker 1: or Republican, what would be your advice for, like, how 2711 02:34:11,640 --> 02:34:14,200 Speaker 1: do we make this as much of a win as 2712 02:34:14,280 --> 02:34:17,680 Speaker 1: possible relative to your point the weaknesses that a politician 2713 02:34:17,760 --> 02:34:20,560 Speaker 1: is always going to have in the format. My advice 2714 02:34:20,600 --> 02:34:23,800 Speaker 1: would beats a hare an incredibly good editor. My advice 2715 02:34:23,800 --> 02:34:27,440 Speaker 1: would be two, I don't care if you have to 2716 02:34:27,440 --> 02:34:29,000 Speaker 1: do it in a skiff or if you have to 2717 02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:30,760 Speaker 1: do if you have to, like make sure the tape 2718 02:34:30,760 --> 02:34:34,280 Speaker 1: self destructs. Put your candidate or your your office holder, 2719 02:34:34,400 --> 02:34:37,200 Speaker 1: whoever you work for, in a room with someone they 2720 02:34:37,640 --> 02:34:41,120 Speaker 1: actually want to talk to that they personally think is interesting. 2721 02:34:41,440 --> 02:34:45,840 Speaker 1: Whether it's you know, a policy person, a lawyer like someone, 2722 02:34:46,360 --> 02:34:49,960 Speaker 1: a dietician like literally anyone who they authentically think is interesting. 2723 02:34:50,120 --> 02:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Put them in a room, have them just candidly speak 2724 02:34:53,879 --> 02:34:56,400 Speaker 1: to each other with tell the politician like you could 2725 02:34:56,400 --> 02:34:59,320 Speaker 1: swear you can say shit about your constituents that like 2726 02:34:59,360 --> 02:35:01,720 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want months to hear. Ever, like you can 2727 02:35:01,760 --> 02:35:05,720 Speaker 1: say anything, and we will edit it to remove all 2728 02:35:05,800 --> 02:35:08,600 Speaker 1: instances of anything that you cannot say on the record 2729 02:35:08,680 --> 02:35:11,320 Speaker 1: by virtue of being a politician. Now, this is the 2730 02:35:11,360 --> 02:35:14,640 Speaker 1: reason I am not a comms director, because no professional 2731 02:35:14,640 --> 02:35:17,920 Speaker 1: cons director would ever allow or tell a politician to 2732 02:35:17,959 --> 02:35:20,039 Speaker 1: do this. But I think it is the only way 2733 02:35:20,080 --> 02:35:23,080 Speaker 1: to actually get to the authenticity of the medium that 2734 02:35:23,080 --> 02:35:25,240 Speaker 1: makes people like it so much. I would also tell 2735 02:35:25,280 --> 02:35:29,160 Speaker 1: them to have a co host. So Ted Cruse does 2736 02:35:29,160 --> 02:35:33,360 Speaker 1: this exactly. Yeah. The thing about Cruz's podcast is like 2737 02:35:33,400 --> 02:35:36,480 Speaker 1: almost there. Like Cruz has Michael Knowles from the Daily 2738 02:35:36,520 --> 02:35:38,760 Speaker 1: Wire and they have a little bit of like a 2739 02:35:38,840 --> 02:35:42,360 Speaker 1: rapport where, you know, Knowles will wind him up about 2740 02:35:42,400 --> 02:35:45,080 Speaker 1: something in the conservative media cycle, and then Ted Kruz 2741 02:35:45,120 --> 02:35:47,560 Speaker 1: will deliver one of his Ted crusy speeches and they 2742 02:35:47,600 --> 02:35:53,160 Speaker 1: come close to having an okay rapport, but it's you need. 2743 02:35:54,800 --> 02:35:57,879 Speaker 1: I think there are limitations unless the people involved are 2744 02:35:58,000 --> 02:36:01,760 Speaker 1: very very close friends to having just a two man room. 2745 02:36:02,280 --> 02:36:04,800 Speaker 1: I think if I were, if I were playing fantasy 2746 02:36:04,879 --> 02:36:07,720 Speaker 1: comms director here, I would say, get one of your 2747 02:36:08,000 --> 02:36:09,960 Speaker 1: best friends on the hill. It doesn't have to be 2748 02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:12,760 Speaker 1: another office holder, although cool if it is. Get one 2749 02:36:12,800 --> 02:36:16,039 Speaker 1: of them to commit to hosting this show with you 2750 02:36:16,520 --> 02:36:18,240 Speaker 1: and do what I just said, and the two of 2751 02:36:18,240 --> 02:36:19,920 Speaker 1: you will just have kind of like a free floating 2752 02:36:19,920 --> 02:36:22,200 Speaker 1: conversation with a person you think is interesting, and we 2753 02:36:22,240 --> 02:36:25,160 Speaker 1: will edit it to pieces to make sure that you 2754 02:36:25,200 --> 02:36:28,680 Speaker 1: don't you end up on my website politico dot com 2755 02:36:28,760 --> 02:36:32,640 Speaker 1: tomorrow saying something you shouldn't have. Well, you heard it here. 2756 02:36:32,879 --> 02:36:36,320 Speaker 1: Any hostaffers or future or Karen Potage who are listening, Derek, 2757 02:36:36,480 --> 02:36:40,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on Breaking Points. Yeah, thanks, Marshall, 2758 02:36:40,040 --> 02:36:41,080 Speaker 1: had great time. Is always