1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: I've never told to your production of I Heart Radio. 3 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: So today we're bringing back a classic on on something 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about, which is doctors not believing women, 5 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: um not trusting their pain or thinking they're exaggerating. And 6 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: as we said, um, who knows how many episodes ago, 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: pretty recently, one of the things we want to talk 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: about is the physical health impact of this pandemic and 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: all the stress, and that's something that we are working on. 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: And I know we have discussed this a lot, but Samantha, 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: do you have like's something that comes to mind immediately 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: when you think of a time you went to a 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: doctor or something and they kind of dismissed while you 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: were there. So I can't really I'm trying to think. 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: I don't often go to the doctor because I am 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: that person. I think part of my problem with in 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: general going to doctors, I believed them in thinking that 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with me and I have to That's 19 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: part of why I won't go unless I'm absolutely sure 20 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: I am sick. I will not go like it's an 21 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: odd thing, like, uh, I think there were several times 22 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: when people told me they've gone to the hospital because 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: you know they had done this to that a goal 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: they did, I'm like, no, I just didn't like. I literally, 25 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: I think, pulled my cab muscle to the point that 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: it blew up. I couldn't stand on it, and my 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: entire leg was purple. I refused to go to the 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: doctor because in my mind it still wasn't bad enough, 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: because it wasn't broken, so why And I'm pretty sure 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: I broke my foot once and I refused to go 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: because I didn't think it was good bad enough. So 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: I am that person that truly does not believe I 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: guess I'm not I'm worth seeing, and I don't know why. 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: So I am overly cautious, even though I'm probably I 35 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: probably should have on several occasions. The only time I 36 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: can really think of any kind of mishap like that 37 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: was trying to explain my anxiety and my mental health stuff. 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: And I had been referred to a male psychiatrist who 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: pretty much dismissed my entire job, saying that because at 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: the time I was working with social work and work 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: with at ristines and kids who have worked in problematic 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: issues with the law, whatever broken, you know, and had 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: gotten arrested, and he was talking about essentially how he 44 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: worked with the facility and was like, they all need 45 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: to be just put in jail, put away. And I'm 46 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: like what because my job was the opposite of that, 47 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: trying to keeping them out and so dismissing that and 48 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: say there's nothing they could do to help them, as 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: well as that I am doing too much so that 50 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: my anxiety was self induced and all these things. And 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: I was like yeah, And I never went back to him, 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: and I reported it back to my therapist. I'm like, 53 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: he should never recommend this person again, like he was 54 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: the worst and assumed that was coming in for extra 55 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: drugs too. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm kind of similar. I 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: don't and I'm not saying this is a healthy mindset 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: at all, um, But I will also like put off 58 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: going to the doctor until like it's there's no way 59 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: that they can tell me that I'm exaggerating or it's 60 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: in my head, or it would be much harder, which 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: is part of this conversation that we feel this way, 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: but I have. When I went to go get I 63 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: was just having a lot of trouble breathing, which asked 64 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: Samantha knows. I have a long problem and I have asthma. 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: Had asthma really badly at one point, and this doctor 66 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: I came in to get all these tests and at 67 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: the end of it, he said, like, it's hard to 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: get up and work out every now and then, isn't it. 69 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: And I was like a young, you know, self conscious, 70 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: in secure, fourteen or fifteen year old, and that just 71 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: that that cut me. That was bad. That left him 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: mark because I already felt like I was like chubby 73 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: and all of this like toxic stuff that he was 74 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: kind of reaffirming that that's all bad and that's on 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: you and it's your fault. And then it turns out 76 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: like I had a colon ambulance when I collapsed at 77 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: school because I couldn't breathe the minds went blue. So 78 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: and then one day we're going to do a Monday 79 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: mini on this because I really want to talk about it. 80 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: But I had a really, really, really bad experienced my 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: first time at a gynecologist, and he essentially like, looking back, 82 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm really not sure what was going on here, but 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: he kind of like threatened to tell my dad that 84 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: I was basically sexually promiscuous or something which oh my god, 85 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: there's so much from pack there, but that it scared 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: me and it traumatized me um to this day. I 87 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: think about I think about it. Uh and again yeah, 88 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: I think it was fifteen fourteen or fifteen. So yes, Well, 89 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: with all of that in mind, and with all of 90 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: these ideas that we're planning on returning to in a 91 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: future episodes, please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff 92 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, 93 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. 94 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: There seems to be a lot of questions floating around 95 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: the Internet about women and their doctors, and I'm just 96 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: getting the impression generally that women feel that doctors don't 97 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: listen to them. I came across two big questions on 98 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: said internet regarding women and doctors. One is whether or 99 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: not male doctors come on to female patients and where 100 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: the ethical lines are. I did not investigate that one. 101 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: That's a whole other podcast, yes, and that we probably 102 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: will never record. And also whether or not doctors listen 103 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: to female patients. Right, there's a lot of interesting data 104 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: out there about um just gender interactions, both the gender 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: of the patient and how that affects the doctor patient relationship. 106 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: And and as you can imagine the gender of the physician, 107 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: and I, for one, have always thought out female doctors. 108 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: I feel more comfortable with a female gynecologist and a 109 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: female internist, my chiropractor, and my acupuncturist. I'm just going 110 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: to tell you everything about myself right now. Do you 111 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: want to know my blood type? I don't know it. 112 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: Oh god, we should figure that out. They're male, So 113 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: the people, the people who are like cracking my spine 114 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: and sticking needles and mirror are guys. But you know, 115 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: I just feel like if I'm going to be doing 116 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: talking about really personal things and getting medicine prescribed, I 117 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: just I feel more comfortable with a lady doctor. And 118 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: this question of the doctor female patient relationship has been 119 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: snowballing in our minds as we've been doing episodes on 120 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: underdiagnosed chronic conditions among women, such as wolvedenia, and it 121 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: also stood out in our podcast we did a while 122 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: ago on gender differences in anxiety because Taylor Clark over 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: its Slate pointed to the American Psychological Association's Stressed in 124 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: America survey in two thousand and eight, which found that 125 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: if a woman goes into a doctor's office uh and 126 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: complains of symptoms, they are more likely to be dismissed 127 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: as just the products of female stress, just the product 128 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: of being a woman, perhaps the change of life, yes, 129 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: the season's turning u. Whereas male symptoms, the same symptoms 130 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: presented by a male patient often taken more seriously. And 131 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: this is specifically in regard to cardiology, and we'll get 132 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: into that a little bit more. So, we decided to 133 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: look into whether or not that was true, whether or 134 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: not women are just complaining more loudly. Are we just 135 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: pickier about our doctors? Are we all hypochondriacs? What is happening? Yeah? 136 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: There was a May blog post by Nancy klemus On 137 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: on the Miss magazine blog and she posed the question 138 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: that we're going to get into about why don't doctors 139 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: listen to women? Or do doctors listen to women? And 140 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: she said, how do we dispel the age old myths 141 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: that women are emotional, overreactive, and generally unable to describe 142 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: their own medical conditions? What is up with doctors making 143 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: up their minds about us when we've uttered three words 144 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: about what we're suffering. And I believe Klemus also is 145 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: a medical doctor, So this is a doctor posing this 146 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: question about other doctors now across the board. Probably because 147 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: of the limited amount of time that doctors have have 148 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: to see patients in the exam room, there is some 149 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: mistrust that goes on between patients and physicians. There was 150 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: a two thousand eight column in The New York Times 151 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: by Tara Parker Pope who was citing a Johns Hopkins 152 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: study finding that about one in four patients, it's pretty high. 153 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: One in four patients feel that their physicians sometimes exposes 154 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: them to unnecessary risk, and she quotes a New York 155 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: doctor saying that nobody's talking to patients. Everyone is so rushed. 156 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: I don't think doctors are bad. People were just working 157 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: in a broken system. And on a side note, this 158 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: is coming from a report in the Wall Street Journal 159 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: from to two thousand and five, the time my doctor 160 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: spends with individual patients has actually increased from a whopping 161 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: eighteen minutes, which was high I thought, to twenty one 162 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: minutes um. As far as the environment that these doctors 163 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: are working in, Tara Parker Pope in her post says 164 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: that dealing with declining reimbursements and rising costs, doctors have 165 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: only a few minutes to spend with the patient, and 166 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: sometimes when I cut to the doctor, I feel like 167 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: it is literally just a few minutes. I mean, I'm 168 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: really surprised by that twenty one minute figure. Well, the 169 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: that's averaged out, and the writers suggest that it might 170 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: be that high number might be due to an aging 171 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: baby boomer population sort of skew the skew the curve 172 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: could be could be um. Some things that influenced the 173 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: trust issues between doctors and patients are news reports about 174 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: medical mistakes and drug industry influence. So the more you 175 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: hear about malpractice suits and you know, people leaving medical 176 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: instruments and someone's spleen after a surgery, maybe you're more 177 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: likely to worry. Yeah, And because a lot of adults 178 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: are very attuned to what could possibly be wrong. I 179 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: don't know about you, Caroline, but I have inadvertently diagnosed 180 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: myself with a tear will cancer symptoms? Checker have cancer? 181 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty dangerous. This was according to a few 182 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: Internet Project survey uh sixtent of women and percent of 183 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: men will research what could be ailing them before the 184 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: even step foot in the doctor's office, right, And that's 185 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 1: actually sort of a maybe not a dangerous mistake to make. 186 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: But if you've done all this research because you're worried 187 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: about your help, that mean it makes sense. But if 188 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: you take all of that into your doctor and say, okay, look, 189 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: here's what this website says, this is what I have. Well, 190 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: even though your doctor is a very smart individual, he 191 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: or she might sort of follow you down that path 192 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: and think, Okay, you're right. And this actually I say this. 193 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: I say this because it happened to me. I actually 194 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: had it. It was a minor and a brief dermatological issue, 195 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: and I looked it up online and I was like, okay, good, well, 196 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: ay I'm not dying, and be this sounds like what 197 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: it is. So well, you know, I went to the dermatologist. 198 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: Wasn't my normal doctor. I went to a new one 199 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: because I couldn't it in anyway. So I go in 200 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: with all this information and they're looking at me, and 201 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not 202 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: gonna say anything. I'm gonna let them decide what it is. 203 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: And finally, you know, they're poking at me. And stuff, 204 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, I think it's this 205 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: and they look and they're like, yeah, I hear some 206 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: Hydrocortisown cream go home. Well then it wouldn't go away. 207 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it was nothing bad, but it 208 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: kept like it just kind of hung around. And so 209 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: then I went into my my normal dermatology. She's like, 210 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: oh god, how long have you been using this Hydrocordisown 211 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: cream And I said, well, really not as much as 212 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: they told me too. She said, good, because that's not 213 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: what you have. And if you had used hydrocordisome cream 214 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: every day between thin and now, your skin might be 215 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: falling off. Oh my godness. So yeah, it is dangerous 216 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: to go in with your mind made up already. Well, 217 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: in addition to women possibly over educating themselves about what 218 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: could be going on compared two men, we're also more 219 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: likely to like, you did, take action and make that 220 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: appointment and go in. This is coming from the Centers 221 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: for Disease Control and Prevention. This is excluding pregnancy related visits. 222 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: Women are thirty three percent more likely than men to 223 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: visit a doctor. Now that starts to close with age, 224 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: as we all get old and we're all equally sickly UM, 225 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: but doctors see our faces more often, right, And according 226 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: to a meta analysis of data from nineteen sixty seven 227 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: to two thousand one. This appeared in the Journal of 228 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: American Medical Association. It found that visits with female doctors 229 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: last two minutes longer on average as far as gender goes, 230 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: so as far as women, women are in the doctor's 231 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: office more. But if you're seeing a woman doctor, you're 232 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: also going to be seeing her more, a little bit more, 233 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more, twenty seconds more. I wonder if 234 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: two minutes makes that much of a difference, though, if 235 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: you have a question, yes it's a brief question, and 236 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: you mentioned that the pattern is slightly different for umb U, 237 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: I n's and this is true. It's interesting because all 238 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: these studies are saying that, you know, female patients go 239 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: to the doctor more, they spend more time at the doctor. Um. 240 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Female physicians are more likely to spend more time with you. 241 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: But all of that is not the case for male O, 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: b G, I N. They actually demonstrate a higher level 243 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: of emotionally focused talk with their patients. But maybe that 244 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: has to do with them tailoring communication styles to their 245 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: patient population. Because studies have also demonstrated that female patients, 246 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: unsurprisingly UM tend to communicate more, want to do more 247 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: of the the whole person analysis how they're feeling um mentally, physically, emotionally, uh, 248 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: instead of just you know, be sticking more to what 249 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: is going on, what is my denvergure and my blood pressure? 250 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: Exactly like male robots. Yes, as you know, men talk 251 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: like robots. UM. The Journal of Patient Education and Counseling 252 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: in two thousand six published a study that found that 253 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: while men tend to be satisfied regardless of the doctor's 254 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: gender and communication style, US ladies are more particular and 255 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: we tend to be happiest with female doctors when those 256 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: doctors expressed great concern, empathy, and reassurance. And I mean 257 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. I want to know that 258 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: my doctor is listening to me and understands. I don't 259 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: I don't need her to be like, oh boo, don't worry, 260 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: but you know, I want to know she's listening and understands. 261 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: But actually the whole the whole thing flips on its ear. 262 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: And if those doctors were male, female patients were dissatisfied 263 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: with overt displays of caring. Ah, we can't be pleased. 264 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: They just can't. But it makes sense so that women 265 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: might be more particular about the kind of health care 266 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: they are receiving. Because we are spending more time in 267 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: doctor's offices, we're probably seeing more doctors. And again we 268 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: go in statistically, we go in armed with more knowledge. 269 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: So maybe we set the bar a little bit higher. 270 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: And this is not to say by any means that 271 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: male doctors are somehow not doing their job properly. They're 272 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: simply a communication difference. Because there was a journal I 273 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: don't know, Carolina, did you reference as the Journal of 274 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: Women's Health study from two thousand nine that found that 275 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: male physicians had a higher component to score, which was 276 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: understanding the whole person, which is really what it sounds 277 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: like more what female patients are interested in, right. It 278 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: seems like we want to get the whole picture, the 279 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: whole health picture laid out, And from this same study, 280 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: female physicians had a greater component one score, in other words, 281 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: exploring both the disease and illness experience. But I'm wondering 282 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: if maybe this big dissatisfaction has much less to do 283 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: with the gender of the physician that we're talking to, 284 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: because again, Um, I don't want to say that that 285 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: female or male physicians are one is superior to the other. 286 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: But maybe it's how women present their symptoms and whether 287 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: or not the word stress comes because a Cornell study 288 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: presented at the two thousand eight Cardiovascular Research Foundation found 289 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: that mentioning stress affects a doctor's perception of a woman's symptoms. 290 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: These researchers examined how doctor's reactions reacted to patient descriptions 291 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: of cardiovascular problems for male patients versus female patients, and 292 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: they concluded that quote the inclusion of a stressor precluded 293 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: doctors from making a coronary heart disease diagnosis in women, 294 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: but not in men. So there's something about women saying 295 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: stress that like sets off alarm bills in physicians brains says, 296 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: oh you know what, Uh, it's probably just your stress levels. 297 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: Here is something that will take care of that. Yeah, 298 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: here's an anti anxiety or an antidepressant. Right. Maybe that's why. 299 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: According to the CDC, the major classes of drugs doled 300 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: out to women are pain killers, antidepressants, and estrogena. Oh 301 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: hey interesting, Um, yeah, as far as as the mental 302 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: health and anxiety goes, I mean yeah, We did reference 303 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: that stuff in our anxiety podcast and it was interesting 304 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: to see how doctors perceive women so differently. But according 305 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: to the World Health Organization, doctors are more likely to 306 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: diagnose depression in women compared with men, which we've talked 307 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: about before, even when they have similar scores on standardized 308 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: measures of depression or present with identical symptoms. And this 309 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: is a quote, Uh, you know, you think about predictors 310 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: for for being diagnosed with the disease, you don't think 311 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: of your gender. I mean, I I don't know. It's 312 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: a female. Gender is a significant predictor of being prescribed 313 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: mood altering psychotropic drugs. So just being a lady, you're 314 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: more likely to get mood altering drugs. Women also tend 315 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: to seek more generalized medical assistance for mental health issues, 316 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: as again coming from the World Health Organization, compared to men, 317 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: who are a less likely to seek mental health but 318 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: when they do, they'll go more to specialists, right. And 319 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: and there's just there's something about gender stereotypes, not only 320 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: for women, not only doctors thinking oh, she's just hysterical, um, 321 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: but for men as well, and gender stereotypes regarding proneness 322 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: to emotional problems and women and alcohol problems and men 323 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: appear to reinforce social stigma and constrain help seeking along 324 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: stereotypical lines. That's also from the World Health Organization. So 325 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: these are barriers, I think too, to get in quality 326 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: care if you're if maybe if you assume something about 327 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: your own situation, or if your doctor just assumes something 328 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: because of your gender. And the fact matter is, uh, 329 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking a lot about whether or not 330 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: women are satisfied with their patient care, but guys, you 331 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: you also are suffering from a healthcare gap as well. 332 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: Over the life term. Male healthcare costs far more than 333 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: women's because you're not investing as much in preventative care 334 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: and going to the doctor um as often as we are. 335 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, you know, maybe at some 336 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: point we need to meet in the middle where doctors 337 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: quit dismissing women's complaints is just the byproduct of everyday stress, 338 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: and men stopped going in when it's a situation, so 339 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: that doctors take your you know, symptoms far more seriously, right, Yeah, 340 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: go from more more checkups along the line instead of 341 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: waiting until it's just at the tipping point and as 342 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: far as identifying problems, especially mental health issues along gender lines. UM. 343 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: There was an interesting interview with doctor Jerome Groupman by NPR. 344 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: He read a book called How Doctor Stink after he 345 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: himself had a bad experience about trying to get something diagnosed, 346 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: and he went to several different doctors and um, finally, 347 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: I think it was the fifth doctor. Someone finally listened 348 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: to all of his symptoms and he got the right diagnosis. 349 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: But so he wrote this book called How Doctor Stink 350 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: after his experience, and he's talking about how doctors maybe 351 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: have errors in thinking. It's not that they're bad people, 352 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: it's that, uh, we use shortcuts. He says, most doctors 353 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: within the first eighteen seconds of seeing a patient will 354 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: interrupt him telling his story and also generate an idea 355 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: in his mind of what's wrong. So they're making this 356 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: snap judgment. And he calls it an anchoring mistake because 357 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: once you utter a couple of words about what you're experiencing, 358 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: what hurts, or what feels bad. Um, some doctors have 359 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: already made a decision about what you have based on 360 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: your gender, age, race, whatever, and they kind of stick 361 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: with it and maybe, uh use everything else you say 362 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: to confirm what they are pready believe. So as far 363 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: as having an idea of what someone is already suffering 364 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: from or not suffering from. UM. An interesting study from 365 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: the Cardiac and Vascular Institute at New York University Langhorne 366 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: Medical Center. This was published UH in September. UM. Anywhere 367 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: from forty to a hundred thousand women every year with 368 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: arteries that show up is clear on an angiogram suffer 369 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: from a heart attack. And thirty eight percent of the 370 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: time they have the kind of plaque that doesn't show 371 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: up on an angiogram. And so a lot of these 372 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: doctors are sending women home because they just do this 373 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: one test and they say, oh, you're fine, it's probably indigestion, 374 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, here's here's a prole stack or whatever. Go home, 375 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: lie down, get some rest. But then when the woman 376 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: comes back and she's going, no, okay, for real, I'm 377 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: I'm having a heart attack. UM, that's when they realized 378 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: that something very serious is wrong and and women are symptoms. 379 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: And and this says, I feel common knowledge. I know 380 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: that women present very different symptoms when they're having a 381 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: heart attack in men. You UM, and that is something 382 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: that really needs to be taken into account. If a 383 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: woman is suffering from the same thing a man is, 384 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: she just might not present the same symptoms in the 385 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: same way. And so I think, um, if maybe if 386 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: we get more time with our doctors, if we go 387 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: to them with enough time in advance of any problems 388 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: we have, then maybe we could um be taken more 389 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: seriously and get these things diagnosed as far as and 390 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, instead of waiting until it's almost too late. Well, 391 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: and if the standard test for things like heart disease 392 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: and heart attack our tailored to what more commonly manifests 393 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: and meant, it would make sense that within that eighteen 394 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: second window that you mentioned from how the book How 395 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: Doctors Think, it would makes sense that you know, doctors 396 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: would conclude that yea or nay, this is or is 397 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: not going on. UM. So it sounds like there's room 398 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: for more nuanced in the exam room, but also before that, 399 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: taking more even in med school, training doctors to look 400 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: more closely for um, for for the gender differences. I 401 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: have never been to med school. People who have been 402 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: let me know if that is happy. I'm sure it's 403 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: happening a lot more than it used to because we've 404 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: talked about in the podcast before. How with for a 405 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: lot of prescription medications, for instance, it's only been in 406 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: recent years, in the past, like twenty years probably that 407 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: they have started using women in more test groups, whereas 408 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: everything was tailored to men because men are more stable 409 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: because they don't have menstrual cycles. And by stable, and 410 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like brain and mood stable, I 411 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: mean physiologically levels of hormones in their body fable. But 412 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: to cap things off, let us let us at least 413 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: verify that it is not just in our heads. Even 414 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: though women are going to the doctor more often than men. 415 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: A December two thousand elevens study published in the European 416 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: Journal of Public Health via the Public Health Agency of 417 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: Barcelona found that women did indeed report health problems more often, 418 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: but it's because we are actually suffering from a higher 419 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: rate of chronic disease, and the lead researcher says, these 420 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: results suggest that the poor self rated health of women 421 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: is a reflection of the higher burden of disease they suffer, 422 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: and it should be the findings should be offered up 423 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: as support that women are not just a bunch of 424 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: raving hypochondriacts and of speaking of hypochondria. According to the 425 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: National Institutes of Health, hypochondria presents itself equally among men 426 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: and women, especially with websites like web m d read. 427 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: All you have to do is click on that little 428 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: body and tell it what hurts. It's always cancer. There's 429 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: always You could scrape your knee and web MD symptom 430 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: checker would give you knee cancer. It's like some it's 431 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: always going to be cancer or a foot fungus. It's 432 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: something where you're like, how do you how do I 433 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: have prostate cancer? Would I'm I'm a woman, Come on, um. 434 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: But okay, so we we've we've come back around to 435 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: the whole self diagnosis thing, and I think we should 436 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: talk about some of the mistakes that we do make 437 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: when we go to the doctor's office. I already told 438 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 1: my long story about my hydrocortisome cream. We don't need 439 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: to revisit it. Um. But Dr Christine Northrop was quoted 440 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: in a two thousand eight CNN column by medical correspondent 441 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Cohen and actor. Northrop said that women make a 442 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: huge mistake by feeling paralyzed and voiceless in a doctor's office. 443 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: Although I'm not sure how you can call and something 444 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: like that a mistake. If you feel paralyzed, you feel paralyzed. 445 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: But anyway, she says, you shouldn't feel paralyzed. And so 446 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: so she breaks down the five the five mistakes that 447 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: we make, and one is we don't question our doctors. 448 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: She compares it to a a child versus parent interaction 449 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: that we're just like, okay, whatever you say, you're smart. 450 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: So we're just passive sitting on the the exam table 451 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: waiting for the terrible prognosis of knee cancer. Exactly, you're 452 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: going to get letters from people with knee cancer. Um. 453 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: She suggests taking someone with you who will ask questions, 454 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: who who maybe isn't afraid to ask questions to the doctor, 455 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: or just ask the doctor to slow down and say, look, 456 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: I don't I didn't go to med school. Can you 457 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: please help me understand this? So that that's one idea, 458 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: And she also says that instead of just saying the facts, 459 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: we're offering interpretations which could lead the doctor down the 460 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: wrong path. In other words, what she's saying is you 461 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: go and prepared, know that you're going to have a 462 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: limited amount of time, and know what you want to 463 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: talk about if there are you know, three things specifically 464 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: that are happening, be ready to cut to the chase, 465 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: right and yeah, cutting to the chase, which is what 466 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: I should have done earlier with my store worry. Um. 467 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: She says that, you know, don't interpret your systems or 468 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: your symptoms in the doctor's office. Don't just state the facts, 469 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: state what you're suffering from. Don't say like, oh, well, 470 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: so then I was reading that maybe it could be 471 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: foot fungus. Um, just just let them let them exam, 472 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, examine you. And I'm not gonna lie. I 473 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: am totally guilty of going into the doctor for something 474 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: and not wanting to reveal the fact that I had 475 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: done the research for fear of seeming like a crazy 476 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: internet hypochondriac. But so many of us are. I mean, 477 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: I think they know that. I mean, I think if 478 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: you're a doctor, you're an internist. Probably, I would say, 479 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: a huge chunk to be very specific, come in every 480 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: day just being like, well, I've read this on the internet. 481 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like we just need more honesty in the 482 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: in the exam room and maybe several follow up appointments. 483 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to prescribe our listeners more honesty and gumption 484 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: next time they go to the doctor. Put that on 485 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: a pillow. Um. And one one major issue that she 486 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: points out is that we don't as women, we don't 487 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: recognize gender bias. Apparently. She says that our issues are 488 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: more likely to be interpreted as emotional issues or complaining 489 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: like we've touched on and uh. Dr Nissa Goldberg, author 490 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: of the wonderfully titled Women Are Not Small Men. Um, 491 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: thank you Dr Goldberg. She says, you don't want to 492 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,239 Speaker 1: go to a doctor who says, now, honey, it's not 493 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: all that bad, which is true. I mean you want 494 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: to If you're taking the time to go to the doctor, 495 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: you're probably taking off work or school or whatever. You 496 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: want to be taken seriously, so listen to us. And 497 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: we're not small men, right, Like you said, we have 498 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: menstrual cycles. So we've been addressing a lot from the 499 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: patient end of things. What I'm also interested in two things. 500 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: A for people working in the medical field out there, 501 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: how do you I mean doctors and nurse practitioners and 502 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: everybody else cannot be blind to this communication barrier between 503 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: patients and the physician. So I'm wondering whether or not 504 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: this is something that is talked about, whether or not 505 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: it's something that is kind of dismissed. If you if 506 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: you have those certain patients who it's like, well they 507 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: stop talking about my mother, get ready for a bunch 508 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: of complaining um or you know how how you how 509 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: you manage that UM and also men out there doesn't 510 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: are are women just complaining more? Or is there a 511 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: similar disconnect between what you need when you go into 512 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: the doctor and the kind of care that you are 513 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: or are not getting. Is this something that we're all experiencing, 514 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: because I feel like the um, the issues that we're 515 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: talking about have as much to do with with patient 516 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: interaction as it does with how doctors are responding. And 517 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: I want to hear from from women. I know we've 518 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: heard from a couple already when we did our Volvetenia 519 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: podcast about what symptoms have you had? What what health is? 520 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: She said you had that doctors have dismissed and that 521 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: you found out later it was actually something serious. So 522 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: we just asked for so much from everyone. But but really, 523 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm very curious to hear from folks. Mom stuff 524 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com is the address? Okay, I have 525 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: a letter from Christina Um. She says, has anyone ever 526 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: told you this? Before? The movie? Whip It encompasses at 527 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: least six elements from stuff Mom never told you episodes. 528 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: Let me explain. First the Roller Derby Show obviously what 529 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: the movie was about, slightly mentioned. Second, the Women of 530 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: the Oscar Show. This movie was not up for an 531 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: Oscar as far as I know, but in mentioning general 532 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: female directors, Drew Barrymore directed and start in it. Third 533 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: is Miss America relevant that show? Ellen Page's character Bliss 534 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: was being pressured by her mother to be a part 535 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: of a beauty pageant show for feminism, as mentioned in 536 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: most shows, Bliss lived happily ever after without Oliver, the 537 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: cheating boyfriend decided not to buy his crap about a 538 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: girl in a picture wearing a striper shirt she discovered 539 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: on his band web page. Also, be your Own Hero 540 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: was a catchy, empowering quote. Fifth, Bullying Show Maven Juliette 541 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: Lewis's character was bullying Bliss, but earned her respect at 542 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: the end. Sixth The Girl Scouts show. Herl Scouts was 543 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: the team name that Bliss played on. Isn't this strange? 544 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: Or is this someone's favorite movie. The movie was cool, 545 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: but I love your show and wanted to point this out. 546 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: So that's something I've never thought about. And I wrote 547 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: back to tell her that I have never seen Whippett, 548 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: but now obviously it's really cute. It's really cute, and 549 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't 550 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: seen it. Kristin your mooths, But the part where you 551 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: mentioned Christina the whole like living without Oliver the Boyfriend. 552 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: I love that theme. That's my favorite. I have no 553 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: idea what you're talking about, So I'm going to talk 554 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: about grammar. Just from Mary Ellen. She has a piece 555 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: sheet in linguistics and is writing in response to m 556 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: A Girl, and she took some issue to some of 557 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: the things she writes. When answering the question about whether 558 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: men or women pay more attention to grammar. Grammar Girl 559 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: mentions that older women tend to be bigger sticklers for 560 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: grammar because all of the teachers way back when we're women. 561 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: While this might be true, it's only part of the story. 562 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: At least in Western culture, language has been a vehicle 563 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: of upward mobility for women. Think, my fair lady, if 564 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: women speak properly, they can have white collar jobs such 565 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: as teachers and secretaries and move out of the lower class. Men, 566 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: on the other hand, benefit from speaking the vernacular and 567 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: are mocked if they speak too proper, which brings to 568 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: mind this the whole kind of elitism argument that crops 569 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: up often in political seasons as we are in. Finally, 570 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: I want to comment on if you Will. I disagree 571 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: with grammar girl. I don't think that it undercuts what 572 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: you are saying. What if you Will does is ask 573 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: your audience permission to use a word or phrase that 574 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: you're acknowledging as inadequate but best fits because you can't 575 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: think of a better word. I think it's a useful 576 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: phrase and don't see any reason that you shouldn't use it, 577 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: you know what. Mary Ellen is one of many who 578 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: has written in too in support of if you Will. 579 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't I don't know if 580 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: I can do it. I feel like I've trained myself 581 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: to weed it out so thoroughly as you wish, that 582 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: as you wish will be the only thing that will 583 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: suffice if you will, So, if you have any questions 584 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: to send our way, Mom stuff at Discovery dot com 585 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: is the email address. Facebook dot com, slash stuff Mo've 586 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: Never Told You is the surprise Facebook place to go, 587 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: and then at mom Stuff Podcast is how you can 588 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: reach us on Twitter and of course if you want 589 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: to find us During the week, we are over at 590 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out 591 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how 592 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising and 593 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 1: perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The house Stuff Works iPhone app 594 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: has a right delmot it today on iTunes, brought to 595 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 596 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: are you