Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to Desperately Devoted The Ultimate Desperate Housewives rewatch,
Speaker 1: hosted by Meat Terry Hatcher, my on screen daughter Andrea Bowen,
Speaker 1: and my real life daughter Emerson Tenney.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Today we are discussing episode four, Who's That Woman which
Speaker 3: could also potentially be called Mincemeat, and what an episode
Speaker 3: it is. We have Lynette grappling with whether or not
Speaker 3: to give her children medication for add.
Speaker 2: And Susan is being blackmailed by missus Hooper, who claims
Speaker 2: to know that the measuring cup found in Edie's fire
Speaker 2: belongs to Susan and Julie.
Speaker 4: Brie continuing to struggle with her marriage to Rex, and
Speaker 4: Gabby continuing her affair with John as Carlos's suspicion grows
Speaker 4: to the point of him assaulting a cable guy and
Speaker 4: inadvertently committing a hate crime.
Speaker 3: All extremely problematic in many ways. The episode wraps up
Speaker 3: with Brie stealing Mary Alice's tapes from her therapist's office,
Speaker 3: and the women gathering together to try to get to
Speaker 3: the bottom of what is really going on in the
Speaker 3: young house.
Speaker 2: Well, let's find out. Let's find out what's going on.
Speaker 3: So many things to say about episode four, which aired
Speaker 3: October twenty fourth, two thousand and four. First of all,
Speaker 3: I just have to say, and I don't know who
Speaker 3: is what network you're watching this on or rewatching this on.
Speaker 3: I'm rewatching it on Hulu. And this was the first
Speaker 3: time that in the Hulu the recap that I presume
Speaker 3: is happens for any if you watch it because it's
Speaker 3: previously previously on And Mary Alice says it, And it's
Speaker 3: the first time we actually hear Mary Alice say. As
Speaker 3: we see Bree turn up the little spikes in the
Speaker 3: pull out couch, she says, everyone has a little dirty laundry,
Speaker 3: And this was the slogan of the first season in
Speaker 3: all of the marketing, but it's the first time that
Speaker 3: someone's actually said it on the show.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: That was a big tagline.
Speaker 3: It was a big tagline on the dry cleaning back.
Speaker 2: Everyone on the Yeah, on the poster for your Everything,
Speaker 2: everyone has a dirty well does everyone have a little
Speaker 2: dirty laundry?
Speaker 3: I do, because I actually don't have a hamper right now.
Speaker 3: My hamper, No I do. My hamper was sold. I
Speaker 3: had it forever and I kept throwing wet wash cloths
Speaker 3: in it. And then in the couple of days clearly
Speaker 3: and in a couple of days it would take Then
Speaker 3: it like kind of ruined the bag, and then finally
Speaker 3: decided to throw it away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just you because I live alone, and I have
Speaker 2: like a first in the second floor, but you can
Speaker 2: reach you can see over from the second floor down
Speaker 2: to the first floor. I don't put my dirty clothes
Speaker 2: and a hamper anymore either.
Speaker 3: I do you do down the way?
Speaker 2: And I threw the banister down to the first floor,
Speaker 2: where eventually I will take them up the laundry room.
Speaker 2: But I just yeah, no, it's really it's gone.
Speaker 3: I have I have a pile to the shower right now,
Speaker 3: and say this is.
Speaker 2: Some reason someone should not live alone.
Speaker 4: I love how quickly we turned right into something like
Speaker 4: as literal as let's talk about our dirty laundry process.
Speaker 3: Well, I certainly don't have any secrets.
Speaker 2: You don't have any secrets.
Speaker 4: So this episode title is another song we're gonna you know,
Speaker 4: obviously we're going to go over the Sondheim references because
Speaker 4: it's such a cool part of this show. And anyway,
Speaker 4: this one happens to be from the show Follies. So
Speaker 4: for those out there who listen and care about that.
Speaker 4: Now you know who's.
Speaker 2: Happy.
Speaker 5: Yes, I know.
Speaker 2: I found this to be and I really related to
Speaker 2: this an episode that really circled around identities and like
Speaker 2: how we identify ourselves. And I will admit that as
Speaker 2: a six year old woman who has had her adult
Speaker 2: daughter go off to begin her independent life. And even
Speaker 2: more so now no, I mean you, no, I.
Speaker 3: Love it because you say I feel like you've said
Speaker 3: that for like, when I went to college, it was
Speaker 3: like she's going off to college. When I graduated, it
Speaker 3: was like she's graduating, She's beginning her adult life. Now
Speaker 3: I'm looking at twenty eight coming up, and she's like
Speaker 3: she's beginning her adult life.
Speaker 2: Should I say beginning, Well, I meant more like, I
Speaker 2: feel like because you actually bring out points And I'm
Speaker 2: saying this for all the empty nesting moms that might
Speaker 2: be out there listening. I think I hear you. I
Speaker 2: empathize with you that you know the rule The first
Speaker 2: of all, there's no rule book to motherhood. You know,
Speaker 2: you have your child, and I mean there is like
Speaker 2: what to expect when you're expecting, and what to expect
Speaker 2: in the first five years. There's that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: but nobody really tells you. It's hard to know how
Speaker 2: you're going to evolve with your identity, and the identity
Speaker 2: that becomes very easy, and that I think mothers in
Speaker 2: general love is mom. Yeah, I'm a mom, and it
Speaker 2: means something to me, and it means something even more
Speaker 2: importantly to other people, and there's a value in it.
Speaker 2: And then these are the stages when you go off
Speaker 2: to college. It is one degree of no longer being
Speaker 2: a mom. You're still a mom.
Speaker 3: I still went with you to like help pass out
Speaker 3: of my dorm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, you know, I was still involved. I still
Speaker 2: got calls when you had the flu and you know,
Speaker 2: figuring it out.
Speaker 3: However, flew a lot, and the first I was going
Speaker 3: out too much.
Speaker 2: Then you graduate, so then that's another degree, like, oh okay,
Speaker 2: and she she did not come home to live with me.
Speaker 2: I mean she did a little bit because of COVID,
Speaker 2: but like she as soon as she could went to
Speaker 2: live in her own apartment. And now the next degree
Speaker 2: is you're a real working professional and you're living with
Speaker 2: your partner. Yeah, like so, I you know, I could
Speaker 2: argue that I am pushed aside.
Speaker 3: The redefined And.
Speaker 2: This is what other women my age or you know
Speaker 2: around my age.
Speaker 3: That that are.
Speaker 2: You get forced to redefine your identity. And it isn't
Speaker 2: as easy as it sounds. Because when you take away mom,
Speaker 2: if you're retired, which I am not, by the way,
Speaker 2: anybody looking to hire a.
Speaker 3: Finish an actress ready to work.
Speaker 2: I'm ready to work. But when you push aside that
Speaker 2: sort of day to day mom role, when you know,
Speaker 2: are not going to work every second, you have less
Speaker 2: and less things to sort of hang on to figure
Speaker 2: out what is your identity. And I'm right in that
Speaker 2: stage where I'm trying to figure it out. And so
Speaker 2: I look at the women, the characters in this show,
Speaker 2: and I really get it and I feel again, I'm
Speaker 2: going to say, this is why a show like Desperate
Speaker 2: Housewives is lasting over generations, because people can relate to
Speaker 2: it for as kind of stereotypical and what's the word satirish,
Speaker 2: you know that is, you can still relate to it,
Speaker 2: and that's why you buy in.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm so struck because I'm sitting here and
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, I'm about to put that identity on, you know,
Speaker 4: of motherhood and becoming a mom, and you know, it's
Speaker 4: it's I have thought about identity so much prior to
Speaker 4: watching this particular episode, just in this transitional phase I'm
Speaker 4: in in my life and kind of what type of
Speaker 4: mother do I want to be? And how does being
Speaker 4: Andrea now change when I become Andrea as a mom,
Speaker 4: And what do I want to model for my daughter?
Speaker 4: And how is she gonna look at me?
Speaker 5: And what?
Speaker 4: You know, all these things are.
Speaker 2: All the right questions. Yeah, and you.
Speaker 4: Know, I'm taking that and it's a good thing I'm
Speaker 4: watching Desert Housewives because I can hold from that, you know.
Speaker 2: The worst, what is so bad? How each is interesting to.
Speaker 4: Do their motherhood, you know, with some of the themes
Speaker 4: that I'm sure we'll we'll get into. But I do
Speaker 4: agree that the general theme woven between all the characters
Speaker 4: being routed around identity was really prevalent and has had
Speaker 4: me thinking a lot too.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I really resonated with the identity idea also, and this
Speaker 3: idea of labels. You know, with identity, we label ourselves.
Speaker 3: You know, you're either how high power exec or you're
Speaker 3: a stay at home mom. You're either Gabby the fashion
Speaker 3: model a stay at home wife, or you're Susan the
Speaker 3: working single mom. And I think I was thinking even
Speaker 3: at my age, you know, people in their mid late twenties,
Speaker 3: early thirties. I feel like today we're in a time
Speaker 3: in society where a lot of I was gonna say
Speaker 3: artists my age, but I think it's people my age
Speaker 3: in general have more than one job and more than
Speaker 3: one identity that comes with it. You know, you work
Speaker 3: at a coffee shop and then you are an actor,
Speaker 3: or you work in a restaurant and you're a writer,
Speaker 3: or you have a marketing job and you're also pursuing producing.
Speaker 3: And I mean even for me, like we're doing this
Speaker 3: podcast and I'm also a screenwriter.
Speaker 4: And everything's multi hypen it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everything is multi hyphen it. And I feel like
Speaker 3: there is much more flexibility around labels, but also more
Speaker 3: emphasis on how you identify yourself. And it's this weird paradox.
Speaker 5: That's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if it's I mean, it would be
Speaker 2: hard for you to answer if it's harder or easier,
Speaker 2: you know, to lean into your identity as a crutch
Speaker 2: or to sort of unburden yourself from having to be
Speaker 2: any label. But then you also don't have the support
Speaker 2: of what it means to be part of that group
Speaker 2: of other people who are Bearista's, you know or what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's interesting. It's so interesting that you bring
Speaker 3: up identity, because obviously this is a huge theme, especially
Speaker 3: later in this episode, especially as a queer woman thinking
Speaker 3: about identity. Now, I'm just jumping completely from what you
Speaker 3: do or if you're a mom or not, like what it?
Speaker 3: How do we identify? I was having a conversation with
Speaker 3: my girlfriend earlier this week, and we were talking about
Speaker 3: I was writing in a coffee shop and I overheard
Speaker 3: these two young girls I I think they were It
Speaker 3: seemed like they were seniors in high school or they
Speaker 3: just graduated, and they were getting ready to go to college.
Speaker 3: And one of them was talking about this girl that
Speaker 3: she was dating and if they were going to stay
Speaker 3: together when she went to college. And the other girl
Speaker 3: was talking about how she kind of had a crush
Speaker 3: on this non binary person and she said, oh, I
Speaker 3: don't know if they want to kiss me or if
Speaker 3: I want And I was just it doesn't really matter
Speaker 3: what they were talking about. But I was listening to
Speaker 3: them talk because I was really I'm such an eavesdropper.
Speaker 3: I am a note or don't say coffee shops. I
Speaker 3: don't say anything next to me in a coffee shop
Speaker 3: because I am listening to you and I'm remembering it too.
Speaker 3: I'm like too, so, yeah, beware everyone on the east side.
Speaker 2: But you're saying it doesn't matter, Well, it.
Speaker 3: Was just I was really struck by the fluidity with
Speaker 3: which they talked about who they were seeing, how they
Speaker 3: identified what they saw for their futures. And you know, there,
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe twelve fifteen years younger than me,
Speaker 3: and I thought, oh my gosh, I did not grow
Speaker 3: up in high school with this level of fluidity around identity.
Speaker 3: And I was so struck by these girls who weren't
Speaker 3: that much younger than me, maybe they were only ten
Speaker 3: years younger than me, having just such ease with the
Speaker 3: way they moved between the way that they labeled themselves
Speaker 3: and what they so offfer their futures and what they
Speaker 3: suffer other people around them, And yeah, it was it
Speaker 3: was very moving.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the bringing up labels, it also brings
Speaker 2: up judgment, you know, And so it's one thing to
Speaker 2: have your own sense of self and purpose and you know, acceptance,
Speaker 2: you know. But but we live in a world and
Speaker 2: in this show, they live on a street and in
Speaker 2: a neighborhood where there's a lot of judging going on,
Speaker 2: and you know, starting off with Lynette thinking that she's
Speaker 2: going to have possibly a good day until she gets
Speaker 2: the phone call and you know her her children are
Speaker 2: so badly behaved that she's offered the idea that they
Speaker 2: need medication or they're going to get kicked out of
Speaker 2: the school. Yeah, that's that's that's huge. And this happens
Speaker 2: to people like I was trying to think. This did
Speaker 2: not happen to me. I you know, as you can see,
Speaker 2: I sort of have the perfect daughter.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you so much. I was so well behaved.
Speaker 3: I never got kicked out of a classroom. It's I
Speaker 3: was an only child and I sat at the adult's
Speaker 3: dinner table a lot growing up, and so I think, I, yeah,
Speaker 3: everything was interior. I just had a very interior life.
Speaker 3: I think that's probably why I'm a writer now. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4: But listen, I mean you're talking about how your identity
Speaker 4: was formed.
Speaker 5: It's it's so interesting.
Speaker 4: I I when I was driving over here today, I
Speaker 4: was thinking a lot about identity and like, how do
Speaker 4: I identify and how is my identity formed? And all
Speaker 4: these things right, and Desperate Housewise plays a big role
Speaker 4: in it, right, because I had been an actor for
Speaker 4: a long time by the time I started the show,
Speaker 4: but arguably this was the most successful, you know, on
Speaker 4: a grand scale thing that I had done. And and
Speaker 4: and I think when you're a performer as a child,
Speaker 4: your identity is really kind of told to you by
Speaker 4: not only the roles you book, but also you're kind
Speaker 4: of praised for. You get verbal affirmations for the things
Speaker 4: that people like about you, and then you adopt them
Speaker 4: as like, Okay, that's who I am, right, And so
Speaker 4: being a good little adult as a kid when you're
Speaker 4: in the industry is really valuable. I happen to kind
Speaker 4: of like be predisposed to be somebody who is a
Speaker 4: perfectionist and cared about showing up prepared and wanting to
Speaker 4: do things well. But you know, I was also awarded
Speaker 4: for that behavior, right, And so I always was. I
Speaker 4: was always told like my whole adolescence and Julie's kind
Speaker 4: of like this too, like, oh, you're so mature for
Speaker 4: your age or whatever. Right, we're so related, And so
Speaker 4: when you grow up, what happens to the identity of
Speaker 4: your mature for your age as a thirty five year
Speaker 4: old woman.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: No one's telling me now that I'm mature for my age,
Speaker 5: right right? I mean that would be weird. And at
Speaker 5: this point, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was such a theme throughout me who
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 2: Do you know what came your mind for me? No?
Speaker 2: But I would say, and I tell her this all
Speaker 2: the time. Okay, this is the this is memportant. Just
Speaker 2: that when I was younger, when I was forty, when
Speaker 2: I was thirty forty, I was on the cover of magazines.
Speaker 2: People told me all the time I was beautiful. That
Speaker 2: was part of my identity. No one tells me that anymore.
Speaker 5: Well, we'll tell you right now.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying. So it is a transition like going
Speaker 2: from the daily mom into the empty nester. And people
Speaker 2: think that the state of their being is going to
Speaker 2: last forever. Yeah, and and it isn't. And so you
Speaker 2: really need to be present and really enjoy what gifts
Speaker 2: you're given.
Speaker 3: I think about that with Lynette's character, you know, did
Speaker 3: she really feel present and enjoy when she was working
Speaker 3: sixty hour weeks.
Speaker 4: She's so wistful for it now because now she's so wistful.
Speaker 3: I'm curious, Andrew, So, how did you or have you
Speaker 3: worked to redefine yourself as not well, such a mature
Speaker 3: young adult.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm just a really mature, put together thirty five years old,
Speaker 4: I know, but I think I've released a lot of that.
Speaker 4: I don't have that as like the moniker I wear
Speaker 4: when I walk into a room anymore, but I will
Speaker 4: say that something is kind of beautiful and sweet?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 4: My mom over the past couple of years has said
Speaker 4: to me, you know, when the occasion arises or like
Speaker 4: on my birthday, that she sees she's watching me get
Speaker 4: younger as I get older, And I think that's really cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is that because now that you don't feel the burden
Speaker 2: of being like a perfect young actress who does everything right,
Speaker 2: you know that you can actually be more playful and
Speaker 2: get things wrong.
Speaker 5: I think so.
Speaker 4: I think that even though I wasn't necessarily beholden to
Speaker 4: it at the time, in a way I was aware of.
Speaker 4: I think that it served me. I liked it. I
Speaker 4: really like being prepared. I like to do things.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: In my mind, it's like I want to be perfect
Speaker 4: at something I've never done, which is impossible, right, But
Speaker 4: it's that like control thing, and I've definitely relinquished some
Speaker 4: of that over the last few years, and I think
Speaker 4: it's it's very freeing and yes, allows me to be
Speaker 4: messier and more playful and all the things, and so well.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things I do love about aging,
Speaker 2: Like I don't care that nobody says I'm beautiful anymore.
Speaker 2: Like I I'm so freed of all that stuff, Like
Speaker 2: I I love that.
Speaker 3: I love that. I mean, obviously, I am the youngest
Speaker 3: one out of the three of us, but I I've
Speaker 3: actually I've said this before. I feel like when I
Speaker 3: because I also was really praised for being such a
Speaker 3: mature young adult, praised you for thank you, no but
Speaker 3: but for but for being mature and intellectual for my age.
Speaker 3: And I feel like I always had this kind of
Speaker 3: very concrete idea of what path I was going to
Speaker 3: be on and when I was going to achieve things
Speaker 3: by a certain age, and put a lot of pressure
Speaker 3: on myself because I too, am so type a you know,
Speaker 3: straight a student likes to know how to do everything,
Speaker 3: even if I've never done it before, and I feel like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, the concurrent events. I feel
Speaker 3: like when I turned twenty six, when I was like
Speaker 3: over the hump of in my mid twenties or you know,
Speaker 3: late mid twenties, and also I really kind of in
Speaker 3: a more public way to my friends and family came out,
Speaker 3: I felt this complete redefinition of my age. And I
Speaker 3: have to say every year since then, I have felt
Speaker 3: younger and younger, and I have felt, yeah, just like this,
Speaker 3: it's so arbitrary, these rules that we put on ourselves,
Speaker 3: and to just feel also maybe more confidence in my identity,
Speaker 3: but also in my work and my voice.
Speaker 4: And your value outside of it, and my perfect exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Neither of you ever did anything wrong at school. You
Speaker 2: never painted anybody.
Speaker 3: Blue or it's a great sejuct, but did.
Speaker 2: I'm sure neither of you had medications either, But but
Speaker 2: how do you feel? This was another daring, bold boundary break.
Speaker 2: Early was to bring in in two thousand and four
Speaker 2: a character who was considering is it adderall or.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm medication but yeah.
Speaker 2: But for eightyd, I know it was kind of the
Speaker 2: beginning of more and more of your fellow students. I
Speaker 2: feel like there were some kids at schools that I
Speaker 2: was aware of that were maybe starting to do things
Speaker 2: like that, but I felt like on television it was
Speaker 2: sort of the first character that really was getting this question.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, you know, you feel for Lynette so
Speaker 4: much because I thought, it's such a thing right, Or
Speaker 4: you're trying to be such a good mom and you're
Speaker 4: trying to do right by your children, and you just
Speaker 4: don't know what right is Is it right to, you know,
Speaker 4: give them the opportunity to silence these thoughts or to
Speaker 4: dull whatever is making their antics act and then maybe
Speaker 4: they're limited in school because of those things, or is
Speaker 4: it right to let them be who they are and
Speaker 4: see what happens if they don't interfere, you know? And
Speaker 4: also if the thought isn't coming from you, but it's
Speaker 4: coming from the school, it's coming from someone else, how
Speaker 4: do you take that? If not feeling very judged or criticized,
Speaker 4: or like being told you're not doing your job and
Speaker 4: her job is such a thing right because she's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I was so successful at the job that I did
Speaker 4: before I was a mother. I was praised for how
Speaker 4: good I was at it, and now I've given that
Speaker 4: identity up to be this, and now I'm told I'm
Speaker 4: not doing it well.
Speaker 2: It is interesting when you're in control of a situation
Speaker 2: like Lynette was at work. You know, when she had
Speaker 2: it her way, that she could excel at it. And
Speaker 2: as soon as you add a variable where you don't
Speaker 2: have the predictability, you don't have the control. I mean
Speaker 2: it is she's really questioning if she can even make
Speaker 2: the right decision. I feel a lot of empathy for her.
Speaker 2: Al I feel a.
Speaker 3: Lot of empathy for her too, and I really feel
Speaker 3: like there is not a right choice. I think I
Speaker 3: bumped up against a little bit in this episode. I
Speaker 3: kind of felt like the writing around her character portrayed
Speaker 3: her choice to ultimately not medicate them as the noble one,
Speaker 3: like the right choice. Oh, She's going to embrace the
Speaker 3: chaos and let them be who they are. And I think,
Speaker 3: especially because attention deficit disorder wasn't something that was talked
Speaker 3: about a lot at the time, I found it maybe
Speaker 3: understandable but also potentially problematic choice to paint the choice
Speaker 3: of using medication for people who have ADD or ADHD
Speaker 3: as a cop out or as a negative.
Speaker 2: And you think that's how somebody might see it now,
Speaker 2: who's viewing it now?
Speaker 3: Because I was watching it and I kind of felt
Speaker 3: like there was a level of moral high grounds that
Speaker 3: Lynette took when she said, I'm not going to give
Speaker 3: this to you guys.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting just the way you were describing it
Speaker 2: like that, weighing out what is right. I never really
Speaker 2: thought about it that if you did give the child
Speaker 2: the medication and they were able to sort of quiet
Speaker 2: some of the noise, they might have the potential to
Speaker 2: have more opportunity in school or wherever that they wouldn't
Speaker 2: get if they didn't have.
Speaker 3: I mean, I thought you talking about that this with parenting,
Speaker 3: not in terms of taking medication or not, but in
Speaker 3: terms of when you see like a very very young
Speaker 3: kid at a fancy restaurant and the kid is acting
Speaker 3: out or crying or running around and kind of like
Speaker 3: disturbing the restaurant for other people. Something that you've said
Speaker 3: before to me, mom, is that's so unfortunate that the
Speaker 3: parents put their kid in a situation that they weren't
Speaker 3: set up for success.
Speaker 2: I was a big one on that that that I
Speaker 2: felt like I always took my parenting responsibility as part
Speaker 2: of that was to not put Emerson in situations where
Speaker 2: she wasn't ready to succeed, not that you have to
Speaker 2: be not. In fact, I made you keep jumping. I
Speaker 2: would not let you give up on jumping rope when
Speaker 2: that was frustrate.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I was so bad at jump I
Speaker 3: was I do it?
Speaker 2: I I was like a five or six year old
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember distinctly standing in the hallway with my jump
Speaker 3: rope trying to practice jumping rope, and I would trip
Speaker 3: every single step and I cried. I was fully melt down.
Speaker 3: I could not do it.
Speaker 2: And you wanted to give up, and I wouldn't let you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's my point. So it's felt like I made
Speaker 2: everything easy. But I do think being aware of what
Speaker 2: you're asking, Like I think the restaurant's a good example.
Speaker 2: Don't ask your three year old to come to like
Speaker 2: a fancy dinner course dinner and sit there. It's just
Speaker 2: you're you're setting them up to fail, and that's not good.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and so this idea that maybe you know
Speaker 3: you need to maybe there are tools that set your
Speaker 3: kid up to succeed that are kind of being ignored potentially.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she Lynette has that one line that I
Speaker 4: thought was so it just really tugged at my heart
Speaker 4: where she's holding the mug and she's talking about you know,
Speaker 4: and at first I didn't realize that the mug was
Speaker 4: going to be a point of anything in the scene.
Speaker 4: I thought it was just a prop and I thought,
Speaker 4: oh God, the prop department is so good because I
Speaker 4: get that perfectly childhood, you know, child made mug. But anyway,
Speaker 4: when she says, I'm afraid if I change the bad stuff,
Speaker 4: I'm going to change the good stuff, and I thought
Speaker 4: that was a really nice line. And I feel like
Speaker 4: we all feel versions of that, like if if we
Speaker 4: correct this thing, is it going to how is it
Speaker 4: going to impact the other things? Like maybe I don't interfere,
Speaker 4: maybe I don't intervene and try to control it.
Speaker 2: Sounds like we had a lot of empathy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so we had.
Speaker 2: In the last episode we had Gabby getting blackmailed, and
Speaker 2: now in this episode we have Susan getting blackmail. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just is that is that the go to drama blackmailed?
Speaker 2: The next Who's getting black.
Speaker 4: Male is running rampant?
Speaker 3: Okay? Yes? And also just to you know, it's not
Speaker 3: just a soap opera where everyone's getting blackmailed. I think
Speaker 3: there's a really interesting layer underneath the blackmail of these women,
Speaker 3: these housewives, especially missus Hubert. I God, I have such
Speaker 3: a love hate relationship with her mainship in this episode. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but they are looking for ways to have control in
Speaker 3: their lives, and turns out blackmail is a way to
Speaker 3: have control.
Speaker 5: Low hanging right apparently.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And oh god, I feel for Susan in the
Speaker 3: grocery store when Miss Hoover comes up and then she
Speaker 3: she says no to Mike to go see the Hitchcock
Speaker 3: movie and then she pays for her groceries and stand
Speaker 3: up for yourselves.
Speaker 4: And there's that moment between us between Susan and Julie
Speaker 4: in the kitchen where you had come clean, you know,
Speaker 4: you wake Julie up and you tell her I think
Speaker 4: I'm being blackmailed, and then we go down. And I
Speaker 4: thought it was so. I thought it was kind of
Speaker 4: a nice thing because so often our dynamic is like
Speaker 4: Julie tries to be the voice of reason, right, like
Speaker 4: that's something that that's maybe her way she identifies and uh,
Speaker 4: and you actually, Susan, to her credit, it wants to
Speaker 4: do the right thing by going to the cops, and
Speaker 4: Julie is the one who's.
Speaker 2: Like, well, this is interesting. I'm gonna just sigde tangential
Speaker 2: to this relationship. I mean, not necessarily just from this episode,
Speaker 2: because this is another way that I was a different mom.
Speaker 2: So people always think that I can't cook because Susan
Speaker 2: can't cook, And people think that I'm a klutz because
Speaker 2: Susan fell down, and I'm a dancer. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of differ and I always met I was the
Speaker 2: only breadwinner. Nobody ever bought, you know, like paid for
Speaker 2: my way or whatever. Anyways, lots of different things, but
Speaker 2: one of the things here that I had to accept
Speaker 2: that I thought was charming in the context of Desperate
Speaker 2: Housewives and the Julie Susan relationship that I would never
Speaker 2: do because of my relationship with my own mother, is
Speaker 2: I have been overly cautious to not put you taking
Speaker 2: care of me. You Emerson. I'm pointing at Emerson to
Speaker 2: our life, like, because I feel like my mother needed
Speaker 2: a lot of emotional.
Speaker 3: Care from me too much.
Speaker 2: She needed me to fulfill something that she couldn't fulfill herself.
Speaker 2: And I think that is a really regrettable, not great
Speaker 2: thing to do to your child if you cannot do it.
Speaker 2: And I do feel like Susan leaned on Julie way
Speaker 2: too much, yea. And that was a quality about her
Speaker 2: that I didn't love as as the mother that I am.
Speaker 2: But I loved it in the television show and I
Speaker 2: loved it in the dynamo dynamic of how a character
Speaker 2: has to grow and what the relationship.
Speaker 3: With it was.
Speaker 2: But if you were if we went around and we
Speaker 2: were like, what did Susan, Gabby, Bree, and Lynette do wrong?
Speaker 2: As mothers would put on this Susan list would be
Speaker 2: treated Julie like an equal as I can or as
Speaker 2: a friend way too much. Yeah, what do you guys think?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think that's a fair assessment. I also think I
Speaker 4: understand from a your standpoint, it's a very charming dynamic.
Speaker 4: Like you said, like I watch it now and I think, oh,
Speaker 4: they're so sweet, Like they're so cute, and they're you know,
Speaker 4: like committing crimes together and they're you know, and it's sweet.
Speaker 4: It's sweet and charming and ridiculous. It's not how I
Speaker 4: would say suggest someone use it as a how to
Speaker 4: parent Handbook. But I think you know, and it's interesting
Speaker 4: because you were a real life single mom at the
Speaker 4: same time and who was doing things very very differently.
Speaker 4: So yeah, but I I do think by your are
Speaker 4: Susan's arc in this episode. Something I thought was so
Speaker 4: great is again the payoff, you know, when you do
Speaker 4: find your backbone and you stand up to Martha Huber.
Speaker 5: It's just it's so satisfied.
Speaker 2: Okay, But we kind of back up to how we
Speaker 2: get there in the first place, which is because I
Speaker 2: know you said you had something to say about what
Speaker 2: I've made here for Oh.
Speaker 3: My gosh, Oh my gosh. Well there's there's so many
Speaker 3: things to say, but we're staying with Missus Hooper's blackmail
Speaker 3: when she shows up at Susan's house with the mince
Speaker 3: meat comment I wrote in my notes also again in
Speaker 3: all caps. Okay, Missus Hooper is all caps off the
Speaker 3: rails in this scene exclamation point no, because she is.
Speaker 3: I mean, she's she comes in and she's saying, mince meat, Lady,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make mince meat. That's what she's actually saying.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make mince meat out of you. I'm gonna, yes,
Speaker 3: that was an expression, and I just I have to
Speaker 3: say I felt like the tone of the show shifted
Speaker 3: into a different place for a moment in that scene
Speaker 3: because I and this is totally not a slight at
Speaker 3: the actor playing Missus Huber, but I feel like there
Speaker 3: is a level of even though the circumstances are very heightened,
Speaker 3: there's a level of the way most of the women
Speaker 3: are playing their scenes with each other that feels very
Speaker 3: grounded in the reality of how we speak and what
Speaker 3: is conversational. And Missus Hooper comes into Susan's house and
Speaker 3: it's like a portal's been opened into this other world
Speaker 3: where like the witch from next Door into the Woods
Speaker 3: comes in and is talking about mince meat in this
Speaker 3: over articulation, and it just it was fascinating.
Speaker 2: But across the tone for you a little no.
Speaker 3: I mean it did I bumped up against I love it,
Speaker 3: go off, go off, tell me, Because I.
Speaker 4: Think every neighborhood in this kind of perfect world right
Speaker 4: has a crazy, zany neighbor, you know, like Missus Huber,
Speaker 4: and I think that we kind of established that in
Speaker 4: the pilot right where she clearly and she's she takes
Speaker 4: the nosy neighbor role to the nth degree, right, And
Speaker 4: yes it is very heightened, and yes it's very campy.
Speaker 4: I happen to love camp I love I'm here for But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you look at any I mean, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to think of a comedy that's on television right now
Speaker 2: that that rides this line.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 2: It is something I was always aware of and and
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like the writing supported uh me, and
Speaker 2: sometimes I felt like it fell short. And I mean
Speaker 2: for Susan's character, at least up till now four episodes in,
Speaker 2: I'm not seeing that, but I definitely recall in later seasons,
Speaker 2: you know, feeling like Susan wouldn't say this, This is right,
Speaker 2: like that kind of comedy is is to me, it's
Speaker 2: the best, but it's also like a tight rope. It's
Speaker 2: the hardest, and it's the hardest. It's the hardest to write.
Speaker 2: Always had to responding to act.
Speaker 3: You're responding so authentically. I would say, in the heightened
Speaker 3: scenario of that you.
Speaker 5: Open your mouth that she's feeding.
Speaker 3: I know, it's okay.
Speaker 2: Can we just talk about what I The beautiful thing
Speaker 2: I have here, first of all, mince meat is do
Speaker 2: you guys know what a mince meat. Okay, so mince
Speaker 2: meat typically was a traditional meat pie. Like it's like
Speaker 2: if you think about we went to Cornwall last year,
Speaker 2: if you think about like the Cornish Pasti's or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's a way to incorporate meat into a pie, like
Speaker 2: so that you're getting a meal in one thing. And
Speaker 2: so when you make I have made for you a
Speaker 2: fruit mince meat, which is what which is what missus
Speaker 2: Whober claimed to make.
Speaker 3: That's what she said. I'm going to be real not
Speaker 3: I know it was dark.
Speaker 2: This mince meat pie is three different kinds of apples.
Speaker 2: One of the apples brands are not brand what do
Speaker 2: you call it?
Speaker 5: A apple?
Speaker 2: I have the apple varieties is called the Envy apple.
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, I have to use that.
Speaker 3: I have to say the apples are I've been getting
Speaker 3: them in the grocery store to like the best kind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is honey crisp, green apple, and Envy apples.
Speaker 2: They are I think they are chopped uniformly in the
Speaker 2: same size that you would have a piece of steak.
Speaker 2: So that is what you're trying to mimic. If you're
Speaker 2: doing im Wow, it's got a lot of warm seasoning, cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice.
Speaker 2: There's orange zest, there's ginger zest, and there's some raisins,
Speaker 2: which I went light on the raisins because I know,
Speaker 2: God bless you, we always have the argument over carrot
Speaker 2: cake of like raisin snow raisins.
Speaker 3: Caras.
Speaker 2: So anyways, it's delicious and I think it will be
Speaker 2: delicious anyways, so I made it. I put a little
Speaker 2: heart on there just because I love you, guys.
Speaker 3: And now we're just going to get to stare at
Speaker 3: that we're talking about this.
Speaker 2: But that scene was is a crazy scene and definitely
Speaker 2: set up I think Susan feeling like she was getting
Speaker 2: mincemeat made of her, yeah, as she kept putting up
Speaker 2: with this woman until she finally conquers her.
Speaker 3: I do have to say, though, I mean, obviously this
Speaker 3: is being used as a blackmail intimidation tactic, which we
Speaker 3: see a lot of different versions of intimidation tactics in
Speaker 3: this episode. But I did think missus Hooper's phrasing of saying,
Speaker 3: you know, I really want to help you. I didn't
Speaker 3: help you enough when Carl left you, and now I
Speaker 3: want to help you. Get Mike on your side and
Speaker 3: go out with Mike. It actually made me think about
Speaker 3: something I studied in a social psychology class at Brown,
Speaker 3: which was this really interesting study that I think about
Speaker 3: a lot that talked about people actually like you more
Speaker 3: after you ask them to do something for you.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 3: Yes, the psychology of that. That the idea of feeling
Speaker 3: which I think plays back into this question of IDENTI
Speaker 3: and labels. The idea of feeling needed.
Speaker 2: People buy someone, Yeah, makes them like I told her
Speaker 2: about relationships growing up. Now we're just gonna this is now,
Speaker 2: this is atitary, mother Emerson.
Speaker 3: How did you do it? No?
Speaker 2: But this was another thing I said, is that don't
Speaker 2: a lot of women these days, I think, go around
Speaker 2: thinking independence is everything, Like, you know, I'm going to
Speaker 2: do it myself. You know I can do it myself.
Speaker 2: And what I would offer her, the idea of is,
Speaker 2: you know, let your partner do something for you.
Speaker 3: People like to feel needed.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It makes me think of Brion Rex and how she says,
Speaker 4: you know, in college we were the perfect couple and
Speaker 4: everyone wanted to be us, and what happened And he says,
Speaker 4: you won't even let me, You can't even let me
Speaker 4: pack my own suitcase.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that that dynamic has gotten really off for them.
Speaker 2: I still think that line stuck out to me Again,
Speaker 2: I think I said this before, which is I'm still
Speaker 2: having a hard time understanding where Bree came from. I'm
Speaker 2: having an art she when she said that line as
Speaker 2: the actress. I mean, I thought it was a lovely performance.
Speaker 2: I believed, you know her her pain in saying like
Speaker 2: when we were in college, you know, everybody thought we'd
Speaker 2: be great, Like what has happened to us? I totally
Speaker 2: believed that, but the the text of it didn't. I
Speaker 2: just I'm still not can't take sure all the.
Speaker 3: Questions what has happened?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: We want to know what did happen?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 4: And sticking with the Breeze story, a little arc in
Speaker 4: this episode with with Andrew and Danielle her children and
Speaker 4: obviously how he is. Andrew is angry. He's angry that
Speaker 4: Rex has left. He's angry at Bree theoretically for driving
Speaker 4: their dad away. And you know, it made me think
Speaker 4: how often it is that, you know, the woman in
Speaker 4: the situation is blamed maybe quicker than the man, right,
Speaker 4: and uh, then it leads obviously to the hilarity of
Speaker 4: him as going off to the trip club and then
Speaker 4: free perfect bree in her you know, buttoned up shirt
Speaker 4: sitting next to him and ruining his night and ruining
Speaker 4: the guy next to them.
Speaker 2: Tonight, I got that speach that that character makes about
Speaker 2: who's that girl? And she's got a mother?
Speaker 3: And then well the guy to lean over at the
Speaker 3: end to go, you gotta get her out of here.
Speaker 5: She kill all of us.
Speaker 4: I know, I know it was it so funny, but honestly,
Speaker 4: we've come a long way with conversations around sex work.
Speaker 5: I think since this episode.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, have either of you
Speaker 3: ever been to a strip club? What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4: All a great strip club story?
Speaker 5: Actually?
Speaker 4: Please, I wasn't planning. I mean I didn't even think
Speaker 4: about it, But now that you just prompted this, I did.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 4: So there's a strip club in Los Angeles, and uh,
Speaker 4: just one, just one, No.
Speaker 5: There's many. This one happens to be called the Body
Speaker 5: Show by the Airport.
Speaker 4: It's the one on Sunset anyway, And I never it
Speaker 4: wasn't like my thing.
Speaker 2: I was not.
Speaker 4: I mean, no one's surprised, but I was not like
Speaker 4: a big goer outer as a as an adolescent.
Speaker 3: You were so much for your age.
Speaker 4: But when I was in my twenties, we went out
Speaker 4: and the night ended at the strip club. And it
Speaker 4: was me and my girlfriends, right, and we were there
Speaker 4: and there was a stripper who was obviously in a
Speaker 4: state of undress, and she did her thing, and then
Speaker 4: she hopped off and she came over to me and
Speaker 4: she told me that she was a fan of Desperate
Speaker 4: Housewives and she was naked and she was a fan
Speaker 4: of Desperate Housewives. And this is where it gets really good. Okay,
Speaker 4: that this isn't her only job. She's also a stylist
Speaker 4: and if I'm ever in need of clothes, clothing or
Speaker 4: styling for an event, to give her a call, and
Speaker 4: that she was going to give me her card. And
Speaker 4: I thought it was so funny because she was standing
Speaker 4: there in front of me naked, and I was.
Speaker 5: Like, well, I can't judge how you'd style me, but
Speaker 5: you know that's pretty good.
Speaker 3: God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's her true story.
Speaker 3: Labels everyone having multiple labels and that they carry with
Speaker 3: us all the time and multiple jobs. I love that.
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, I love that. I have been into a
Speaker 2: strip club. I mean I was a couple of times.
Speaker 2: I think I went to a strip club in Vegas
Speaker 2: a long time ago, and I went to a strip
Speaker 2: club in New Orleans. When I was doing the movie
Speaker 2: Heaven's Prisoners, I wanted to kind of actually research, so
Speaker 2: that was kind of a more of a research stripper. No,
Speaker 2: but I played a person who was involved with strippers
Speaker 2: in that sort of life, and so I kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to see what that was like. And then I
Speaker 2: did stripping on on Desperate Housewise.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for that stage.
Speaker 2: I remember that and yeah, that's much later, but that happens.
Speaker 2: And then, uh, I used to take stripping class for exercise,
Speaker 2: like part of the S factor. I was part of
Speaker 2: the Oprah. I was on Oprah showing Oprah how to do.
Speaker 5: A poll.
Speaker 2: I also did it on Jay Leno, not the man
Speaker 2: the show we want to pull m not on himself anyways.
Speaker 2: So I, you know, I tend to imbue this with
Speaker 2: like I want to empower these women. You know. I
Speaker 2: the painting that Brie was painting that this is so
Speaker 2: bad and her mom must be disappointed, and you know, because.
Speaker 4: A humiliating thing.
Speaker 2: Whatever. I resist that as a as a modern day story.
Speaker 2: Now I wouldn't want to project that. I mean, that
Speaker 2: might be the truth for sure, but I wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to project that. I still am in the lane of
Speaker 2: like hoping that women are doing what they're doing because
Speaker 2: they want to be doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they feel empowered that. I agree. And the
Speaker 3: truth is, so many women with so many jobs, you know,
Speaker 3: walk around carrying various forms of trauma and childhood trauma
Speaker 3: and some of the experiences that Bree talks about in
Speaker 3: that speech, many many women have and it does not
Speaker 3: result in choosing a particular line of work. It feels
Speaker 3: like a very misplaced Yeah, but it makes sense.
Speaker 4: For it makes sense for the character, It makes total
Speaker 4: sense for her, and and comedically it was great. And
Speaker 4: and then she says later in the episode, well, if
Speaker 4: you think that, you know, I feel bad about pulling
Speaker 4: you out of a strip club like that. I consider
Speaker 4: that one of my greatest moments. Yeah, I was going
Speaker 4: to say, we've got Carlos, Yeah, We've got more Carlos.
Speaker 2: I mean, I want to start in the bathtub with
Speaker 2: the rubber ducky because I feel like that's going to
Speaker 2: be the same comment as the algebra class.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I don't know, he might do that I
Speaker 3: haven't seen that far.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: But when he says I'm usually playing with my rubber
Speaker 2: ducky and now I have more to play with or whatever.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm on the floor shocked.
Speaker 2: But yeah, line, I mean, I hope doubling down on
Speaker 2: the you've got to be underagee.
Speaker 3: Well, they were having fun in the right, I was.
Speaker 3: I was. I was watching that scene, and I was thinking,
Speaker 3: people are riffing with these lines, and they're really enjoying
Speaker 3: coming up with what they're coming up with. And now
Speaker 3: I am watching it and I'm horrified, and I'm horrified
Speaker 3: for Gabby and for John and and ultimately for many
Speaker 3: more people. As Carlos gets more and more suspicious that
Speaker 3: Gabby's having an affair.
Speaker 4: Of course, Okay, so they're in the tub, and then
Speaker 4: the doorbell rings, and then John freaks out because he
Speaker 4: thinks that Carlos is home, and she has the line
Speaker 4: of like, well.
Speaker 5: He wouldn't ring the doorbell, which I thought was funny.
Speaker 4: And then and then it's the cable guy, the cable guys,
Speaker 4: and he's been late, yeah, show up late, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: And so then you know, John takes off, right, he
Speaker 4: takes off and forgets a sock, leaves a little sock behind.
Speaker 3: Which Gabby so geniusly quick thinking. So I honestly, I
Speaker 3: was kind of and I just felt like it spoke
Speaker 3: to something about Gabby's backstory that she immediately thought, like
Speaker 3: she done this before, I don't know, to take the
Speaker 3: socks and go put them down by the washing machine
Speaker 3: and say that that is what the housekeeper uses.
Speaker 2: It's because Gabby's as smart as she is beautiful, right,
Speaker 2: she says, all the tools, right, I mean, I'm going
Speaker 2: to figure.
Speaker 3: Out not a split second waisted, how to.
Speaker 2: Do with this sock, like I'm going to solve this
Speaker 2: problem instantly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's really it's impressive, you know what.
Speaker 2: It's a character trait though that that I think comes
Speaker 2: from having to protect yourself.
Speaker 3: I was about to say it speaks to a survival instincts.
Speaker 2: So it must. I don't remember if we ever get
Speaker 2: to a backstory about that character, but it says to
Speaker 2: me that that was a character who who survives.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And they and and that's why they developed all that
Speaker 2: quick on their feet yeah behavior.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, and then and then well then quick on their.
Speaker 5: To put on a sock as she's dusting the banister.
Speaker 2: It kind of made me want to try it. I
Speaker 2: was like, it sort of seems like a good idea.
Speaker 2: You could just spray the banister and then just have
Speaker 2: it and then your rather than having to hold a rag,
Speaker 2: you could just like, I think we.
Speaker 3: All have socks that we don't use any Well.
Speaker 4: There's always back to the laundry, Back to the laundry,
Speaker 4: there's the one rogue sock.
Speaker 2: And now we have a right that's when you're one
Speaker 2: rogue sock, make it a dust rag.
Speaker 5: But then Carlos ends up committing hate crime.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, okay, so because the cable guy slips and
Speaker 3: the paramedics have to come because he hits his head
Speaker 3: really bad, and Carlos is suspicious about why was he
Speaker 3: there so late? And he asks John, who obviously trying
Speaker 3: to cover his own tracks.
Speaker 4: Quick on his feet, he's just barely out of algebra, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he kind of bumbles that response, but at least
Speaker 3: he's in birkenstocks at that point, staging.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean they're really.
Speaker 3: Back, I know, just walk them into silver Lake. And
Speaker 3: then and then Carlos, I know we talked about this
Speaker 3: last time we talked about episode three h Carlos kind
Speaker 3: of feeling increasingly scary and intimidating and kind of domineering,
Speaker 3: and then he actually goes and assaults someone. And I
Speaker 3: have I have so many thoughts about this scene.
Speaker 5: Tell us.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's funny. I was talking to
Speaker 3: my girlfriend about this scene because I said, because she
Speaker 3: actually watched Desperate Housewives with her mom. She was a kid,
Speaker 3: I mean, not quite as young, maybe somewhat retroactively a
Speaker 3: little bit later, but she remembered this scene and I
Speaker 3: was describing it and I said, okay, So Carlos shows
Speaker 3: up at the cable guy's house. He thinks he's going
Speaker 3: to teach him a lesson, you know, he punches him,
Speaker 3: and it is I have to say from comedic writing,
Speaker 3: it is a very funny beat. He punches the guy.
Speaker 3: The guy's on the floor, He's like, why are you
Speaker 3: doing this? And Carlos scared the apartment and he sees
Speaker 3: a gypsy God bless Mark Cherry. He sees a gypsy
Speaker 3: poster on the wall, and then he sees a picture
Speaker 3: of the cable guy and his partner who is a man,
Speaker 3: and he goes, you're gay with a question mark because
Speaker 3: he's surprised, and the guy goes, is that why you're
Speaker 3: doing this? And Carlos goes, uh, yes, and then leaves yeah,
Speaker 3: And then it immediately becomes a story that we see
Speaker 3: on the news of this hate crime committed against a
Speaker 3: gay rights activist. The cableman turns out to be who
Speaker 3: was advocating for the same rights, which I found incredibly interesting.
Speaker 3: He's a gay rights activist who's currently working on making
Speaker 3: sure same sex couples have the same rights as married
Speaker 3: people in general, well in general, I thought it was
Speaker 3: same sex partners being recognized as having the same rights
Speaker 3: in their partnership, which at the time, gay marriage was
Speaker 3: not legalized, right, so it didn't happen, so you had
Speaker 3: to really work to find other loopholes to have your partnership,
Speaker 3: you know, the ability to visit in a hospital, the
Speaker 3: ability to have things that married couples have.
Speaker 2: A way a tiny two line exchange of a scene,
Speaker 2: another groundbreaking ahead of its time moment. Yeah, not to
Speaker 2: interest you, no, and.
Speaker 3: Really commenting on the state of the queer community at
Speaker 3: that time that this was made. And I think the
Speaker 3: reason that it's interesting we're watching it right now, but
Speaker 3: that this episode sat so much with me is with
Speaker 3: our current administration talking about repealing the right to gay
Speaker 3: marriage right now, which has obviously been a right since
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. And my mom and I were
Speaker 3: just talking about this. She sent me a TikTok at
Speaker 3: like eleven thirty at night. Cool when all of the
Speaker 3: best all of the best ideas come from TikTok, And
Speaker 3: she said, actually, I mean, it does make me really sad,
Speaker 3: but she said, you know, you might want to file
Speaker 3: this away. This is a gay rights lawyer talking about
Speaker 3: the nine documents. You need to have your partner so
Speaker 3: you can still my god, I'm gonna be emotional, so
Speaker 3: you can still have your partnership recognized if they repeel
Speaker 3: the right to gay marriage, which my girlfriend and I
Speaker 3: are not married, but obviously you know, we're in a
Speaker 3: serious partnership and that's the things that we're talking about. Yeah. Sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm emotional. But it was really interesting to see this
Speaker 3: come up in such a convenient beat that I appreciated,
Speaker 3: But that really kind of cut to the quick of
Speaker 3: our current political times right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And amazing that the Carlos character cared less about his
Speaker 2: abusiveness right. I mean, cares really out, cared less about
Speaker 2: being a hate crime than he did about his abusiveness.
Speaker 4: Talk about the labels. He was like, I'm fine with
Speaker 4: being like, right.
Speaker 2: With being a hate crime, but you know, not not
Speaker 2: someone who would be cheated, who would be cheated.
Speaker 4: On an emasculated husband. Yeah, God forbid God.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2: That's what I was trying to say. You did it
Speaker 2: better because I kind.
Speaker 4: Of no, no, no, that's right though. You're saying that
Speaker 4: he would rather be labeled as someone who would commit
Speaker 4: a hate crime against a gay person than he would
Speaker 4: be an emasculated husband.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's why when we get to
Speaker 2: the end of this episode, between this and the last
Speaker 2: episode where he responding to what the famous ejaculation line,
Speaker 2: you know, he says, Man, if my woman said anything
Speaker 2: like that, that'd be the last time, you know.
Speaker 3: She would only say that one.
Speaker 2: You know, Like, we've gotten now to this episode where
Speaker 2: I just feel like and we we're just really sitting
Speaker 2: with this very heavy, dominating character. And again maybe it's
Speaker 2: because I know we'recarded, like we got to get well
Speaker 2: because over the years, like he and I have had dinner.
Speaker 2: We had dinner at Kids Met a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: He's actually doing a play right now in Minnesota that
Speaker 2: I might go see. It's about to open, and like,
Speaker 2: so we keep in touch, and I think of him
Speaker 2: as this, like he's a dad, he builds stuff in
Speaker 2: his house.
Speaker 3: He's a very sweet guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and obviously I can cook Susan can't cook, like
Speaker 2: like he doesn't have to. But it is interesting I
Speaker 2: do not have the recollection of that character being this intent.
Speaker 5: I know what is that.
Speaker 4: It's like our minds kind of corrected him in our heads.
Speaker 4: I think because maybe we love Ricardo and.
Speaker 3: Or maybe because you weren't in those scenes with him.
Speaker 4: I mean maybe that's or also just because I'm looking
Speaker 4: at it not as you know, a child anymore. But
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about this idea of like taking stepping crossing
Speaker 4: the line too far, just in general, like obviously he
Speaker 4: crossed a line way too far by showing up at
Speaker 4: that man's house and abusing him.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I have noticed that I inherently am on the women's
Speaker 4: side almost all the time, like in their independent storylines,
Speaker 4: like if it's them against you know, if it's Lynette
Speaker 4: against the teacher, or it's you know, Gabby against Carlos,
Speaker 4: or if it's pre against Rex, Like, I'm having to
Speaker 4: really think about the perspective of the other character because
Speaker 4: I'm inherently on our hero's side, right, even when they're
Speaker 4: doing something very wrong. I think that's really smart writing.
Speaker 4: And it also just shows like because we're kind of
Speaker 4: supposed to be rooting for them. But I was a
Speaker 4: little appalled about them all sitting around listening to Mary
Speaker 4: Alice's therapy tapes, and I wanted to know what you
Speaker 4: guys thought about that invasion of someone's privacy, especially after
Speaker 4: they've since passed and they're sitting there kind of trying
Speaker 4: to find out information that she never readily shared with them,
Speaker 4: and that she only shared with in the confines of
Speaker 4: a therapist's office, And that is to.
Speaker 5: Know, what do you think of that?
Speaker 2: I didn't really snag on it, but now that you're
Speaker 2: bringing it up, it is kind of like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess I must have made an excuse for it
Speaker 2: in that maybe they're just trying to.
Speaker 3: Solve the issue, but you're right, it is very.
Speaker 2: Wrong, and none of them really put do I don't
Speaker 2: remember did any of them push back and be like,
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be listening to this.
Speaker 4: Was that no, I think, I mean Gabby says like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's weird hearing mary Alice's race. But I don't think
Speaker 4: any one of them raises an issue necessarily.
Speaker 3: Interesting this idea.
Speaker 2: If someone did, it would be Lynette. I think Lynette
Speaker 2: would go, I can't believe you got this out of
Speaker 2: the therapist, right. That sounds like something she could have said, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well obviously, Yeah, there's the stealing from the therapist office,
Speaker 3: and then there's the listening to it. And I feel
Speaker 3: like there is something interesting about when does the line?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: I bet they would feel more morally outraged about listening
Speaker 3: to it while Mary Alice was alive and then they
Speaker 3: had to see her and hold on to the secret
Speaker 3: that they knew her personal information. Then they do feel
Speaker 3: listening to it now that she's dead, right and they're
Speaker 3: trying to solve something. And I do think there is
Speaker 3: some I mean, come and correct me on this, because
Speaker 3: I am no lawyer, but I feel like in certain
Speaker 3: cases therapists can be subpoena to have to give up
Speaker 3: notes or recordings, you know, if someone commits a homicide
Speaker 3: or something you know, like in certain mysteries.
Speaker 4: I don't think not by banda camp, no, but.
Speaker 3: Certainly not by people stealing the tape out of their office.
Speaker 5: I think you're right.
Speaker 4: I think there there might be certain occasions when it's
Speaker 4: when it's permitted legally.
Speaker 3: Yea.
Speaker 5: But I also fascinated.
Speaker 4: By the recurring nightmare thing, like I, you know, that's
Speaker 4: what she's saying on the tape, and that her name's Angela,
Speaker 4: which I've forgot.
Speaker 2: Or by the way, yeah I've forgot.
Speaker 3: I've never seen it.
Speaker 5: Excited to know what that means later, and I feel.
Speaker 2: Like you win because you've never seen it, Like we
Speaker 2: just do a lot of we forgotten.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we forgot.
Speaker 3: Fall new to me because it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But also it made me think about recurring nightmares
Speaker 4: in general, like do you have you guys had recurring nightmares?
Speaker 4: I certainly have had some weird recurring nightmare since I
Speaker 4: was little. Some involved cockroaches, which is just probably because
Speaker 4: I grew up in Manhattan. I have another one about
Speaker 4: being tied to train tracks.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I always wake up before the train gets
Speaker 4: too close. But I feel the wind on my face
Speaker 4: and I see that like lights of the train and
Speaker 4: that's how I wake up. And I've had that dream
Speaker 4: more than once.
Speaker 3: Wow, have you looked into what that means?
Speaker 4: No, because I'm terrified of knowing. Okay, crazy that makes.
Speaker 3: Me not about recurring nightmares. But I thought you were
Speaker 3: going to say, because I feel like we have to
Speaker 3: touch on it, when you talked about crossing a moral line,
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to talk about yourself crawling
Speaker 3: through the doggy door to steal back the measuring.
Speaker 5: Corh gosh, that is so funny.
Speaker 4: I love that scene, and I will say so, I
Speaker 4: actually do remember filming that scene, and the reason being
Speaker 4: I have terrible hand eye coordination and I was really
Speaker 4: nervous to have to toss the frisbee back and forth
Speaker 4: with you in front of our crew because I knew
Speaker 4: that I was going to drop it a lot and
Speaker 4: I knew it was going to be bad. And anyway,
Speaker 4: I'm sure I did, and they edited it. Well, you
Speaker 4: look like an extras You're good YEA like through my golf?
Speaker 4: Really yeah, wow, I didn't get that.
Speaker 3: From frisbee golf.
Speaker 2: It's like you throwing the frisbee like to get it
Speaker 2: to a flag, you know, to get it like the
Speaker 2: same my silf.
Speaker 3: She explains this to me, like, are you even my daughter?
Speaker 3: You don't know what frisbee golf? But we did play
Speaker 3: frisbee at the beach. I know, I'm not intimidated.
Speaker 4: Well, I am intimidated by frisbee and little Andrea was.
Speaker 5: And anyway, can we.
Speaker 2: Talk about how great Nicolette was in that scene? Oh
Speaker 2: my god, yeah, yeah, I I so.
Speaker 3: It, And how upsetting and heartbreaking Susan is. I was yelling, like, stop.
Speaker 4: Giving your data, I know, but Nicolette in that scene,
Speaker 4: it is so good when she she has that moment
Speaker 4: where she does the hand gesture after it's like one
Speaker 4: too many, when she basically is saying to Susan, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't stop throwing it in my face, and then
Speaker 4: it just keeps happening, and she like turns to walk
Speaker 4: away and she puts her hand out and it's so funny.
Speaker 2: No, she's really really, really good in it, and it
Speaker 2: kind of brought up I remember just that like it
Speaker 2: was it was an interesting thing about how some people
Speaker 2: used to feel like it was four housewives or it
Speaker 2: was five housewives. I remember that, and I remember really
Speaker 2: on early on being like it's five housewives, you guys,
Speaker 2: it has to be five. She has to be included,
Speaker 2: you know. I think there's even a USA article, like
Speaker 2: a USA Today article where I said that really like yeah,
Speaker 2: I was one of the first women to actually say it, like,
Speaker 2: you know, she's so good. Yeah, she totally is. And
Speaker 2: it's just it rounded out that Nope, the way you
Speaker 2: were talking about Missus Hooper sort of like pushing that
Speaker 2: that that line a little bit, that tone. I feel
Speaker 2: like the Eaedy character also does that. I mean the
Speaker 2: classic like car washing, she's putting anybody.
Speaker 4: There's two lines from that storyline that I just loved.
Speaker 4: One of them happens to be mine, So I'll just
Speaker 4: give myself back on the butt.
Speaker 5: You better get over there. She's wearing cotton.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great line. I think that's more the
Speaker 4: writing than the way I delivered it. But I did
Speaker 4: love that. And then Nick let this is the way
Speaker 4: she delivered it and the writing. But when she says
Speaker 4: every time, I hate Susan Mayer another count for the
Speaker 4: mispronounciation of our name. Right, yeah, we did, we need
Speaker 4: a button. But when she comes in and she says
Speaker 4: I hate Susan every time, I see those big dough
Speaker 4: eyes of hers, I swear to god, I just want
Speaker 4: to go out and shoot a deer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so good. The line is so good,
Speaker 2: but the way she delivered her so good too, because
Speaker 2: because you thought it was going to be. Because every
Speaker 2: time I see those big dough eyes, I want to
Speaker 2: punch her in the face. I want to slap her
Speaker 2: across the cheek. I want You're just sure that that's
Speaker 2: what it's going to be, and it's shooted deer and
Speaker 2: of the greatest punchline. It's like great, it was so
Speaker 2: there dynamic.
Speaker 4: We get to see that friendship again, which we talked
Speaker 4: about I think last week or maybe the week episode before,
Speaker 4: but about the weird Missus Hooper kind of strength.
Speaker 2: They're like the two the two kind of ostracized people
Speaker 2: that like find each other because there's nobody else. But
Speaker 2: you know, they they're sort of like the the almost
Speaker 2: like the third wheel, but it's it's a it's a
Speaker 2: it's a seventh and an eighth wheel or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, they're they're.
Speaker 3: Well I find it so interesting because they say and
Speaker 3: and Edie says this a lot in that scene. She's like,
Speaker 3: you're throwing yourself at Mike. But she's literally standing washing
Speaker 3: her car, dumping soapy water all over her in tiny
Speaker 3: little shorts. And I find it so funny that Susan
Speaker 3: is the one who kind of gets creamed for throwing
Speaker 3: herself at him. But I question to the group, are
Speaker 3: you a hard to get or a beg to love
Speaker 3: kind of person? Oh?
Speaker 2: So Susan's begged to love and the edy is hard
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 3: I think they're both begging for love, but they seem
Speaker 3: to be throwing stones at each other saying well more,
Speaker 3: Edie throwing stones at Susan saying you're begging him to
Speaker 3: love you. What personally do you feel like you take
Speaker 3: a position of to get?
Speaker 5: Baby? Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys?
Speaker 2: Are you guys hard to get?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I I think so. I think I think
Speaker 3: I keep a level of miss mystery, at least initially.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Would pride myself on it. I mean to a bad degree.
Speaker 4: You know, like I so hard to get.
Speaker 3: I never got got.
Speaker 5: Anyone, Yeah, because it was too hard.
Speaker 2: No, but from your belly you got gott.
Speaker 4: But I will say it wasn't until I kind of
Speaker 4: dropped that, you know, to to it wasn't until I
Speaker 4: dropped the idea that you know, having power meant something
Speaker 4: more than it should you know that. Then Look, it's
Speaker 4: like anything, right, Vulnerability is really where everything connects, Where
Speaker 4: true connection links is being vulnerable.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 2: Like these five women, Like that's what I was saying.
Speaker 2: I really do think the Edi character rounds it out
Speaker 2: because you know she I don't, you know, I guess
Speaker 2: so Gabby and Edie both don't have children, but Edie's
Speaker 2: not married or is divorced, and and and then Susan
Speaker 2: and Lynette and Brie have children, but Susan has a
Speaker 2: failed marriage, and you know, the other two like they
Speaker 2: all I think you need it. I think you needed
Speaker 2: the fifth woman.
Speaker 3: That label represented.
Speaker 2: And I see I see that character as a really
Speaker 2: great vehicle to express sexuality and confidence. And because I
Speaker 2: don't see that and any I mean, even Gabby is
Speaker 2: obviously beautiful and sexual, but it still seems connected to
Speaker 2: a man sort of. And I feel like Edie's power
Speaker 2: just feels almost just grounded in herself. Yeah, totally, which
Speaker 2: is which is very cool of the character and also
Speaker 2: of the actress who brought it to I.
Speaker 4: Mean, I really think, yeah, there's so much. There's so
Speaker 4: much Nicolette does with that character that makes it, you know,
Speaker 4: just makes it so substantial, and like, you know, it
Speaker 4: wasn't in the last episode, and I felt her absence.
Speaker 2: Oh that's inea. Yeah, yeah, that's interest. Well should we
Speaker 2: dig into this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been dying to try this pie, I mean
Speaker 3: time for pie. We end? So we end this episode?
Speaker 3: How do we? We end with Paul again the mystery
Speaker 3: continuing hiring someone because they give him the.
Speaker 4: Note, right, because after they listen to the tapes.
Speaker 3: They say that we have to give him the note.
Speaker 3: He's selling his house. He's selling it for such a
Speaker 3: low price.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to talk about how great this crust is.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Oh, she's got a great crust. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 3: Oh my god. And yes, we end with him hiring
Speaker 3: a private detective of some sort to try to decipher
Speaker 3: the note, which I just had this thinking suspicion and
Speaker 3: don't tell me as you know, okay, that he knows
Speaker 3: what the note is. I don't think he's surprised by
Speaker 3: the note. And I feel like Lynette says this as well,
Speaker 3: but that's just you know, that's for me to see
Speaker 3: as the show reveals itself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it does. It does reveal the fact that
Speaker 4: he doesn't he you know, he says that Mary Alice
Speaker 4: sent it to herself, and by hiring someone, we're clearly
Speaker 4: getting insight that she did not, Yes, which I think
Speaker 4: we knew, but now we as an audience get to see, well,
Speaker 4: who the heck did?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 3: Yeah, who the heck did?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Christine Esterbrook, we eat this in your honor?
Speaker 5: Okay, oh did you put booze?
Speaker 3: And this is very boosy.
Speaker 2: It's a little rum, not a little rum. And it's cooked,
Speaker 2: baby cooked, It's totally cooked. There's also really good vanilla.
Speaker 5: Is there clove?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 2: Right? It is? Holiday is right?
Speaker 5: I know it's making me.
Speaker 3: Ready for I'm desperately devoted to this mince meat.
Speaker 2: Which is a thing you thought you would never say,
Speaker 2: really something.
Speaker 4: I got to bring that expression back single handedly with
Speaker 4: our podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make.
Speaker 4: And make mince meat out of someone this way, not
Speaker 4: really make mince meat for someone.
Speaker 3: But yes, okay.
Speaker 2: So, as always, we are desperately devoted to you and
Speaker 2: everything that you want to know about about this show
Speaker 2: or about relationships, lives, and so thank you for.
Speaker 3: Joining us again. Thanks for right to us. I want
Speaker 3: our questions to start coming in. I'm excited to invite
Speaker 3: the audience. I know me too well until then.
Speaker 5: Until then, see you next time.