WEBVTT - I'm Not as Free as I Thought 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:33.676 Pushkin. I found myself skipping at home. You know, I'm 0:00:33.756 --> 0:00:38.596 six one and I am a pretty gigantic black person. 0:00:38.636 --> 0:00:40.556 But I had so much joy in that moment that 0:00:40.596 --> 0:00:43.276 I literally could not contain it. And I skipped down 0:00:43.276 --> 0:00:47.196 the entire hallway of my grandmother's house and I was like, oh, 0:00:47.636 --> 0:00:49.796 I just skipped down that whole hallway. Huh okay, I'm 0:00:49.836 --> 0:00:53.316 feeling myself. I'm feeling good. So it was just those 0:00:53.316 --> 0:00:56.876 physical changes were really great, you know. It was I 0:00:56.876 --> 0:01:01.396 don't know, that was a very magical golden honeymoon period 0:01:01.436 --> 0:01:06.036 of being a trans man. Morgan Gibbons was assigned female 0:01:06.036 --> 0:01:09.516 at birth. In his twenties, he underwent hormone therapy to 0:01:09.556 --> 0:01:13.796 bring his body into alignment with his male gender identity. Initially, 0:01:13.796 --> 0:01:17.716 he felt profound joy and liberation, but he said that 0:01:17.756 --> 0:01:20.316 feeling was short lived when he was confronted with the 0:01:20.356 --> 0:01:23.396 reality of being a black man in society. You know, 0:01:23.436 --> 0:01:28.996 there was this aspect of feeling completely boxed in and 0:01:30.036 --> 0:01:36.196 caged by womanhood and my femininity. And I broke free 0:01:36.236 --> 0:01:38.076 of that, you know, I broke free of it for 0:01:39.516 --> 0:01:42.276 a little while. I had a few moments in the sun, 0:01:42.556 --> 0:01:46.836 you know, but the longer I've gone since that moment, 0:01:47.116 --> 0:01:50.476 the more I've realized how I have become caged once again. 0:01:50.916 --> 0:01:56.156 I'm not as free as I thought I was. I'm 0:01:56.156 --> 0:01:58.676 Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 0:01:59.036 --> 0:02:01.356 a show that dives deep into the world of change 0:02:01.436 --> 0:02:04.156 and hopefully gets us to think differently about change in 0:02:04.156 --> 0:02:29.316 our own lives. Morgan, I was wondering if you could 0:02:29.356 --> 0:02:33.876 take me back to the day when you started taking testosterone. Yeah. Yeah. 0:02:33.876 --> 0:02:36.916 So this doctor that I went to in that moment 0:02:36.996 --> 0:02:38.716 was like just a little piece of magic to me 0:02:38.996 --> 0:02:42.396 because he held the key to me helping unlock the 0:02:42.476 --> 0:02:45.276 rest of who I am, or like stepping into myself fully. 0:02:45.756 --> 0:02:47.156 And I could not wait for him to give it 0:02:47.156 --> 0:02:48.356 to him me. I was just like, hurry up and 0:02:48.356 --> 0:02:49.756 give it to me. Also, I could go home and 0:02:49.756 --> 0:02:53.476 be too scared to use it, you know. And so 0:02:53.516 --> 0:02:56.316 I was excited but kind of scared. And one of 0:02:56.356 --> 0:02:58.596 my good friends she was like, why are you being 0:02:58.636 --> 0:03:00.276 such a baby. I'm like, I'm not being a baby, 0:03:00.316 --> 0:03:03.036 but like you know, that's a needle, man, that's a needle. 0:03:03.076 --> 0:03:05.316 I'm gonna have to do it myself. And she was like, Okay, 0:03:05.356 --> 0:03:08.276 cool and like she disappeared for like three minutes, and 0:03:08.316 --> 0:03:10.356 then she came, I can just jab me in the leg. 0:03:10.476 --> 0:03:12.676 And I was like, wait a minute, and she was like, 0:03:12.756 --> 0:03:15.116 there you go. I gave you your first tea shot. 0:03:15.516 --> 0:03:17.836 I was like, oh, I guess it's not that scary, 0:03:17.876 --> 0:03:21.916 it's not that bad. And can you describe your reaction 0:03:21.996 --> 0:03:24.996 when you first started to notice the effects at the testosterone? 0:03:25.036 --> 0:03:28.116 Oh yeah, Oh I was geeked, you know. I was 0:03:28.476 --> 0:03:30.076 thought and I thought I was flying too, you know, 0:03:30.076 --> 0:03:32.356 because my voice started dropping. So I started answering the phone, 0:03:32.396 --> 0:03:37.556 like how y'all doing? Hey? How you doing? Hey? Girl? Hello? Hello? Yeah? 0:03:37.596 --> 0:03:40.076 And I was just my mom was like, who do 0:03:40.116 --> 0:03:42.276 you think you are? Why you got all these women 0:03:42.276 --> 0:03:44.356 calling you? I didn't raise you like this, you think 0:03:44.356 --> 0:03:46.276 because your voice getting deep, you can, you know, And 0:03:46.476 --> 0:03:49.676 so I had to really kind of step back a bit. 0:03:49.756 --> 0:03:53.596 But I was just very very ecstatic about it because 0:03:53.676 --> 0:03:56.516 my voice started dropping quickly. You know, I got really strong. 0:03:57.556 --> 0:04:00.556 Anything that I could pick up if it wasn't nailed down, 0:04:00.596 --> 0:04:02.476 I was going to, especially if it was heavy and 0:04:02.516 --> 0:04:05.556 it looked like a challenge. I was lifting my mama. 0:04:05.676 --> 0:04:08.476 I was lifting trash cans, and I was just doing 0:04:08.556 --> 0:04:10.996 random things, like I worked at Target at the time, 0:04:11.036 --> 0:04:13.036 I worked in retail, had just kind of come out 0:04:13.076 --> 0:04:15.356 of college. They're like, who's gonna take out the trash? 0:04:15.396 --> 0:04:18.076 And like, I got, y'all, I got. I had never 0:04:18.876 --> 0:04:22.556 ever volunteered to take out the trash before in my life. 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:26.036 But yeah, every time I think about it, it it makes 0:04:26.036 --> 0:04:28.676 me smile. You know, it was I was in a 0:04:28.756 --> 0:04:32.356 honeymoon phase very much. Though. Do you have any other 0:04:32.476 --> 0:04:36.356 specific memories of watching your voice and body change in 0:04:36.596 --> 0:04:41.316 those early months? You know, there was there was this 0:04:41.436 --> 0:04:44.236 weight that I hadn't realized that I had been carrying 0:04:45.276 --> 0:04:47.236 moving through the world, and the world seemed me as 0:04:47.236 --> 0:04:49.396 this young black woman because at the time I started 0:04:49.396 --> 0:04:53.756 taking testosterone and I began hormone replacement, and I just 0:04:53.916 --> 0:04:56.396 noticed that I was letting down my guard in ways 0:04:56.396 --> 0:04:59.356 that I never would have done before. Like, you know, 0:04:59.356 --> 0:05:00.956 there's one time I was leaving work and I used 0:05:00.956 --> 0:05:03.836 to work this late shift at Target, and I would 0:05:03.956 --> 0:05:06.316 leave and it'd be pitch black by myself at like 0:05:06.676 --> 0:05:08.836 three or four am in the morning. And so I 0:05:08.956 --> 0:05:13.556 was always prior before I started taking testosterone, and these 0:05:13.636 --> 0:05:17.236 changes started happening. I was very cautious. I was incredibly 0:05:17.276 --> 0:05:20.796 cautious about any time I was alone at night. But 0:05:21.956 --> 0:05:26.076 I realized that I didn't feel afraid, and I realized 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:29.316 how light it felt to not carry that fear of 0:05:29.356 --> 0:05:33.556 gendered violence, and I had not really I guess it's 0:05:33.596 --> 0:05:37.476 hard to recognize something you live with so constantly. But 0:05:37.996 --> 0:05:42.676 the freedom that came with this masculine presentation, I guess, 0:05:42.716 --> 0:05:46.196 I would say, And the way people assume I'm assist man, 0:05:47.516 --> 0:05:51.276 it's I haven't felt that type of tension in my 0:05:51.316 --> 0:05:53.836 shoulder since, you know, because it all just kind of 0:05:54.396 --> 0:05:56.636 released from my body, like I don't carry I didn't 0:05:56.636 --> 0:05:59.516 carry my keys in my hand as though I could 0:05:59.596 --> 0:06:02.356 use them as a weapon whenever I needed to. And 0:06:02.676 --> 0:06:05.716 I stopped doing that, And it was something I stopped 0:06:05.716 --> 0:06:10.596 doing without realizing it. I'm wondering you can tell me 0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:12.876 about some of the first times you noticed that people 0:06:12.956 --> 0:06:15.396 were starting to treat you differently because of your gender. 0:06:15.596 --> 0:06:19.476 Oh yeah, you know, And so much of this was 0:06:19.516 --> 0:06:21.996 really happening in Target. You know, Target is a microcosm 0:06:22.036 --> 0:06:24.516 of society. You know, you see, you meet all kinds 0:06:24.556 --> 0:06:27.676 of people in there. You really do all kinds of employees, 0:06:27.716 --> 0:06:29.396 all kinds of people coming in there to say they're 0:06:29.396 --> 0:06:31.556 gonna get one thing and leave with twenty, you know. Like, 0:06:32.516 --> 0:06:34.636 so my job at Target, you know, I put the 0:06:34.676 --> 0:06:37.436 things on the show. I was a program what they 0:06:37.476 --> 0:06:39.956 call us program designers. They try to give us fancy names, 0:06:39.956 --> 0:06:41.396 so we thought we I was like, I'm just putting 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:45.236 stuff on the show. And so Anna, who was my boss, 0:06:45.316 --> 0:06:47.716 my team league, you know, she had the experience. I 0:06:47.796 --> 0:06:50.116 deferred to Anna, you know, because she respected me. I 0:06:50.156 --> 0:06:52.876 respected her and like, you got more experience, and I do. 0:06:52.996 --> 0:06:56.996 I'm okay cool. But this young white manager came in 0:06:57.036 --> 0:07:00.916 and he could not handle her telling him no. You know, 0:07:01.236 --> 0:07:03.596 and if I said the same thing. I mean, we 0:07:03.636 --> 0:07:06.916 could be standing in a circle and Anna could say 0:07:06.956 --> 0:07:08.916 something and he would act like he didn't hear her. 0:07:09.436 --> 0:07:12.596 He would speak over her and I would repeat it, 0:07:12.996 --> 0:07:14.836 and he'd be like, oh, well, you know, Morgan, that's 0:07:14.876 --> 0:07:16.876 quite a good idea, and I would have to go 0:07:16.956 --> 0:07:20.396 Anna said it. You know, this was Anna's idea. And 0:07:20.636 --> 0:07:23.796 you know, and when I saw that so clearly, because 0:07:24.356 --> 0:07:26.116 it just made me mad, because it made me realize 0:07:26.116 --> 0:07:28.756 how often it had been done to me before, and 0:07:28.796 --> 0:07:30.836 so that was one of the first moments where I 0:07:30.916 --> 0:07:34.276 was like, okay, and now it's in my face, you know, 0:07:34.396 --> 0:07:40.356 And it was just disheartening in a way, um irritating 0:07:40.876 --> 0:07:45.996 and also exhausting for selfish reasons because it's like I 0:07:46.036 --> 0:07:48.396 have to say something. It's like, now you're interrupting my 0:07:48.436 --> 0:07:50.596 day because I have to talk to you. Had your 0:07:50.636 --> 0:07:56.116 manager known you before your transition or so that's so 0:07:56.196 --> 0:07:58.356 tell me more about that, right did you? Did you 0:07:58.396 --> 0:08:04.436 really see him change through your transition more respect and deference. Yes. 0:08:04.596 --> 0:08:08.956 That's the wildest part is that people at that job 0:08:09.436 --> 0:08:13.516 who knew me before, who knew me as Morgan, assuming 0:08:13.556 --> 0:08:16.796 that I was assisted woman, they were like, oh, yes, 0:08:17.316 --> 0:08:20.236 But as soon as my voice started dropping, as soon 0:08:20.276 --> 0:08:23.196 as my shoulders started getting a little broad, all of 0:08:23.236 --> 0:08:25.316 a sudden, they acted like the base in my voice 0:08:25.316 --> 0:08:28.516 meant what I had to say was more important, or 0:08:28.836 --> 0:08:33.116 they started suggesting that I get extra shifts, or they 0:08:33.156 --> 0:08:35.516 started being like, why don't you apply to be a manager. 0:08:35.636 --> 0:08:37.876 I didn't hear them asking any other women, and I 0:08:37.916 --> 0:08:39.436 asked some of my women, did they ask you to 0:08:39.516 --> 0:08:41.756 apply to be a manager. Some people who were just 0:08:41.836 --> 0:08:44.436 as good as I was at the job and better, 0:08:44.516 --> 0:08:46.316 and they were like, nuh, I didn't even know we 0:08:46.316 --> 0:08:48.596 was going to be looking for managers. So those were 0:08:48.716 --> 0:08:50.836 the types of things that would happened. Well, it also 0:08:50.836 --> 0:08:53.316 seems like they didn't ask you to be a manager 0:08:53.516 --> 0:08:58.396 a year prior. No, No, like just it was gradual. 0:08:58.756 --> 0:09:03.156 I noticed it in increments, but because it was so 0:09:03.196 --> 0:09:06.036 outside the realm of what I had experienced before, it 0:09:06.116 --> 0:09:09.516 always stood out. Those little moments just always it out. 0:09:09.836 --> 0:09:12.316 So it's just those little things, you know, and those 0:09:12.396 --> 0:09:16.276 things accumulate over a person's lifetime. Were there parts of 0:09:16.316 --> 0:09:20.116 you that you know, kind of privately enjoyed the benefits 0:09:20.156 --> 0:09:23.116 that came along with this new perception. Yes, and that's 0:09:23.156 --> 0:09:26.596 the hardest part, you know, because it does make your 0:09:26.636 --> 0:09:30.276 life easier. That the hard part is seeing those benefits 0:09:30.316 --> 0:09:34.036 and saying no to them. They're right there. You know, 0:09:34.076 --> 0:09:37.036 you've talked about how people treated you differently in response 0:09:37.076 --> 0:09:39.476 to your being a man, and that it came along 0:09:39.476 --> 0:09:41.636 with benefits. I want to know what it was like 0:09:41.716 --> 0:09:44.236 to be perceived as a black man. Do you remember 0:09:44.236 --> 0:09:49.236 the first time you faced this new reality? Yeah? The 0:09:49.236 --> 0:09:51.516 first time was when I had to deal with a 0:09:51.556 --> 0:09:58.556 cop outside of my grandmother's house, you know. You know, 0:09:58.596 --> 0:10:00.676 I had been I was coming home from work and 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:04.396 one of those late nights, fully out of my androgyna's 0:10:04.436 --> 0:10:08.036 phase of the second testosterone, and I pulled up in 0:10:08.036 --> 0:10:10.556 front of my grandmother's house. She had this really nice 0:10:10.596 --> 0:10:13.876 home in this beautiful neighborhood, you know, one of those 0:10:13.876 --> 0:10:15.836 neighborhoods where we were kind of the only pepper and 0:10:15.876 --> 0:10:17.596 the salt shaker, at least that's how we kind of 0:10:17.596 --> 0:10:23.196 put it. So, you know, I pull up in the driveway, 0:10:23.436 --> 0:10:27.596 mind you, backed up into the driveway, and the sheriff's deputy, 0:10:28.396 --> 0:10:31.756 you know, I saw him when he drove past me 0:10:31.956 --> 0:10:34.916 to the right, and I saw him see me as 0:10:34.956 --> 0:10:39.356 I was backing into the driveway, and then he flips around, 0:10:39.396 --> 0:10:40.996 you know, it's a little cul de sac at the end. 0:10:41.116 --> 0:10:43.676 He comes creeping slowly back up, you know, kind of 0:10:43.796 --> 0:10:46.956 rolls to a stop, you know, hops out of the car. 0:10:46.996 --> 0:10:48.916 I'm already out of the car, you know, because I'm 0:10:48.956 --> 0:10:50.836 going in the house. This is where I live, this 0:10:50.916 --> 0:10:55.276 is my home. And he looks at me, he goes, uh, 0:10:55.876 --> 0:10:59.356 do you live here? What are you doing here? And 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:01.676 I'm looking at him like, what do you mean? When 0:11:01.716 --> 0:11:03.156 am I doing here? I lift it. What are you 0:11:03.316 --> 0:11:05.716 doing here? Because at this point you're standing on our 0:11:05.796 --> 0:11:08.676 property and I can call you? And I was like, well, 0:11:08.676 --> 0:11:14.716 I live here and I can see. You can always 0:11:14.716 --> 0:11:16.956 tell an anti person, You can tell a scared person, 0:11:17.556 --> 0:11:21.396 you know, and scare people do ridiculous things, scare people think, 0:11:21.476 --> 0:11:24.156 do racist things, you know, And in that moment it's 0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:28.556 so irritating. I have to pacify him so I can 0:11:28.636 --> 0:11:30.796 stay safe. I'm like, I'm literally having to treat you 0:11:30.836 --> 0:11:34.196 like a child so that I'm okay. I can't call 0:11:34.356 --> 0:11:37.276 my grandmother because I know what she's gonna do. She's 0:11:37.276 --> 0:11:39.156 gonna come out of the house and she's gonna raise hell. 0:11:39.676 --> 0:11:41.876 Last thing I want is for something to happen to her. 0:11:41.956 --> 0:11:43.396 Last thing I want us for some harm to come 0:11:43.436 --> 0:11:45.956 to her, because what she will not stand for is 0:11:45.996 --> 0:11:49.196 seeing me threatened in any way. He goes, well, we've 0:11:49.196 --> 0:11:52.876 had some car breakings over here, and that come on. 0:11:52.996 --> 0:11:55.956 Now I knew the man was lying because this was 0:11:55.956 --> 0:11:59.076 one of those rich neighborhoods. If somebody knocked over a mailbox, 0:11:59.636 --> 0:12:02.036 they would have put out a newsletter. They would have 0:12:02.036 --> 0:12:04.356 been like, y'all, we got people breaking mailboxes. So I 0:12:04.396 --> 0:12:06.676 was like, this man is lying, you know, And so 0:12:07.596 --> 0:12:09.876 he tells me put your hands on the hood of 0:12:09.916 --> 0:12:12.876 the car, and I know there's no reason for me 0:12:12.916 --> 0:12:14.476 to be putting my hands on the hood of the car, 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:18.956 because he has no legitimate reason to be fearful. I've 0:12:18.996 --> 0:12:21.396 told him I live here, and if he had any sense, 0:12:21.396 --> 0:12:23.196 he could have run the tag and seeing that he 0:12:23.276 --> 0:12:27.036 was attached to the home where I'm at. And I 0:12:27.076 --> 0:12:29.716 think what made me so angry was the fact that 0:12:29.756 --> 0:12:32.156 I could not fight back in the way that I 0:12:32.196 --> 0:12:39.316 wanted to because that right there, you know, I it 0:12:39.436 --> 0:12:43.036 was the punctuation mark. It was like a period. It 0:12:43.076 --> 0:12:45.756 was a pause on all that joy I had been feeling, 0:12:46.636 --> 0:12:53.076 because for him to roll up on my house, treat 0:12:53.116 --> 0:12:54.876 me the way he did speak to me, the way 0:12:54.916 --> 0:12:57.156 he did lie to me, make me put my hands 0:12:57.196 --> 0:12:59.996 on the hood of the car, like I was somehow 0:13:00.036 --> 0:13:05.156 involved in criminal activity. It's the humanizing, you know, And 0:13:05.996 --> 0:13:12.236 it's also painful. And that's the thing they try to 0:13:12.276 --> 0:13:15.676 take from us, is all of our emotions. You know, 0:13:15.796 --> 0:13:19.116 don't feel the pain, get angry, you know, don't feel 0:13:19.116 --> 0:13:23.356 the pain. Harden yourself to it. But that's painful, and yes, 0:13:23.396 --> 0:13:26.716 my reaction in those moments is anger, but my anger 0:13:26.836 --> 0:13:31.916 is masking that pain, is masking that dehumanization. And you know, 0:13:31.956 --> 0:13:37.516 there was this aspect of feeling completely boxed in and 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:44.716 caged by womanhood and my femininity. And I broke free 0:13:44.716 --> 0:13:46.596 of that, you know, I broke free of it for 0:13:48.036 --> 0:13:50.756 a little while. I had a few moments in the sun, 0:13:51.076 --> 0:13:55.316 you know. But the longer I've gone since that moment, 0:13:55.596 --> 0:13:58.956 the more I've realized how I have become caged once again. 0:13:59.636 --> 0:14:07.596 I'm not as free as I thought I was. We'll 0:14:07.596 --> 0:14:21.876 be right back with the slight change of plans. About 0:14:21.916 --> 0:14:25.236 a year after Morgan Gibbons was confronted by that police officer, 0:14:25.396 --> 0:14:28.916 he decided to move to Washington, d C. To start afresh. 0:14:28.956 --> 0:14:31.916 He considered a few different jobs, but ultimately decided to 0:14:31.956 --> 0:14:35.756 follow in his grandma's footsteps. She had been a police officer, 0:14:35.796 --> 0:14:38.916 and Morgan decided to become one too, a decision he 0:14:38.996 --> 0:14:41.556 did not take lightly. So I spent a lot of 0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:45.116 time kind of standing over who the police are in 0:14:45.156 --> 0:14:48.156 reality and what I wanted them to be, which is 0:14:48.156 --> 0:14:50.556 not what they're not that you know, But because I 0:14:50.596 --> 0:14:53.316 grew up with my grandmother, who was a cop for 0:14:53.476 --> 0:14:58.036 thirty years. I've always had this complex relationship with police 0:14:58.036 --> 0:15:01.836 and authority because I know my grandma, right, she baked 0:15:01.836 --> 0:15:03.636 cookies and then she went to put her unifor I 0:15:03.676 --> 0:15:05.596 remember laying on the couch and she would go put 0:15:05.636 --> 0:15:07.996 her uniform on and walk out the door. And I'd 0:15:07.996 --> 0:15:10.316 be like, buy grandma, and like, there's cookies on account, 0:15:10.556 --> 0:15:14.356 you know, stuff like that. Did you grow up with 0:15:14.436 --> 0:15:16.716 cops or coming in out of the house. Yeah, they 0:15:16.716 --> 0:15:18.916 were in the house all the time. We had cookouts. 0:15:19.556 --> 0:15:22.636 These were people who I found to be kind and 0:15:22.756 --> 0:15:26.396 warm and funny, you know. And these were people when 0:15:26.436 --> 0:15:28.716 my grandmother's friends came in the house. I can't remember 0:15:28.916 --> 0:15:32.076 ever seeing my grandmother's cop friends in their uniforms. What 0:15:32.276 --> 0:15:36.836 I saw were the people outside of their jobs as 0:15:36.916 --> 0:15:39.716 a child, you know, and so I saw them through 0:15:39.756 --> 0:15:43.436 the eyes of a child. And my father at that 0:15:43.556 --> 0:15:46.956 time was physically abusive. And I remember one time my 0:15:46.996 --> 0:15:49.516 brother and I ran up the stairs to tell the 0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:52.636 neighbors something was happening in the house, and that was 0:15:52.756 --> 0:15:56.196 one of the last straws, I think, and my grandmother 0:15:56.236 --> 0:15:59.676 called her friends and those cops came and they packed 0:15:59.756 --> 0:16:03.156 up all of our stuff right then and drove all 0:16:03.196 --> 0:16:06.076 of it to our grandma's house. And so I have 0:16:06.316 --> 0:16:12.316 this emotional remembrance of safety in those moments that does 0:16:12.396 --> 0:16:16.716 not coincide with reality. And so I think part of 0:16:16.756 --> 0:16:20.156 what I had to do was grow out of the 0:16:20.236 --> 0:16:24.036 safety I felt around particular cops as a child in 0:16:24.156 --> 0:16:29.396 order to see policing in its fullness. What were your 0:16:29.436 --> 0:16:34.276 goals and entering the force when I joined the police department, 0:16:35.796 --> 0:16:39.196 you know, I was not I was not running in 0:16:39.236 --> 0:16:42.476 there band like. You know, these people are fantastic, They're angels, 0:16:42.476 --> 0:16:45.876 they got wings. Like I knew the history of policing. 0:16:45.956 --> 0:16:47.996 I knew where it started. I knew its origins and 0:16:48.076 --> 0:16:51.436 slave catching patrols and how it kind of blossomed from there. 0:16:51.836 --> 0:16:56.076 You know, I understood how it worked in communities and 0:16:56.076 --> 0:16:58.356 how it didn't work in white communities the same way 0:16:58.396 --> 0:17:00.156 it works in black and brown ones. And I had 0:17:00.636 --> 0:17:04.196 I would read about how people were treated who were 0:17:04.236 --> 0:17:07.956 trans and queer, And at that point in my life, 0:17:08.036 --> 0:17:11.076 I joined because I said, if police say they are 0:17:11.076 --> 0:17:13.276 here to protect the public, then that's what we should 0:17:13.356 --> 0:17:15.596 be doing. But we need to expand the idea of 0:17:15.596 --> 0:17:18.596 what that protection means and what we're actually saying when 0:17:18.596 --> 0:17:21.836 we talk about protecting people. And so I was like, Okay, 0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:24.716 I can go in there, and you know, I guess 0:17:24.756 --> 0:17:27.196 I can work my way up in the ranks and 0:17:27.436 --> 0:17:29.916 maybe when I'm at a certain position, you know, I 0:17:29.956 --> 0:17:32.076 can I can help, you know, I can do something. 0:17:32.116 --> 0:17:34.796 I can I can tweak some things. But at the 0:17:34.836 --> 0:17:36.596 end of it, it's that's what it's like, a tweak. 0:17:36.636 --> 0:17:38.756 Even at that time I was saying to myself, I 0:17:38.756 --> 0:17:41.596 can tweak some things, not realizing I was saying tweak, 0:17:41.676 --> 0:17:43.676 not fit. So it's like, at the end of the day, 0:17:43.716 --> 0:17:48.796 part of me seems to have recognized the impossibility of 0:17:48.836 --> 0:17:51.116 the task. The Audrey Lord quote that we hear all 0:17:51.156 --> 0:17:52.996 the time. Boy, you're gonna take them tools and try 0:17:52.996 --> 0:17:56.196 to dismantles whose house you know? And so, but part 0:17:56.236 --> 0:18:00.476 of me wanted to to make policing be what it 0:18:00.636 --> 0:18:04.156 says it is but is not. So you were the 0:18:04.196 --> 0:18:08.556 first openly trans policeman in the DC workforce. How did 0:18:08.556 --> 0:18:11.996 you approach those conversations and how were you received by 0:18:12.036 --> 0:18:15.796 the force? Had you always plan to be open about 0:18:15.836 --> 0:18:20.036 about that. I went into the academy with the intention 0:18:20.076 --> 0:18:25.716 of being open about it, because I do recognize the 0:18:25.756 --> 0:18:29.316 psychology of how people's hearts soften when they know someone, 0:18:29.636 --> 0:18:32.636 even if they don't like that person. I was like, 0:18:32.716 --> 0:18:35.916 all right, if I'm open in the academy, you know, 0:18:35.956 --> 0:18:38.876 and they get to know me, it will influence an 0:18:38.916 --> 0:18:42.316 impact how they interact with trans people they meet on 0:18:42.356 --> 0:18:46.956 the streets, because their understanding of who we are is 0:18:46.996 --> 0:18:50.156 not based in the lies told about us. I was 0:18:50.196 --> 0:18:53.236 hoping that they would remember a little piece of me 0:18:53.356 --> 0:18:56.436 when they interacted with people. And I had this guy 0:18:56.556 --> 0:19:00.356 who trained us, you know, I remember he met me 0:19:00.476 --> 0:19:04.116 and we went through the entire week, and after I graduated, 0:19:04.676 --> 0:19:05.916 you know, he came up to me and he was like, 0:19:05.996 --> 0:19:08.116 you were like one of the best recruits we've had, 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:10.916 and you know, I just wanted to let you know that, 0:19:11.036 --> 0:19:13.516 like you really changed me. You change how I view 0:19:13.556 --> 0:19:15.916 things and how I go through the world. And I 0:19:16.036 --> 0:19:18.076 was just really kind of blown away because this was 0:19:18.116 --> 0:19:20.956 like this gruff, middle aged white guy who'd been doing 0:19:20.956 --> 0:19:23.236 this for quite some time. He was just very rough 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:28.636 around the edges. But I was very very meticulous about 0:19:28.756 --> 0:19:31.636 how I came out in the academy and who knew 0:19:31.636 --> 0:19:34.276 what when so by the time I came out three 0:19:34.316 --> 0:19:37.836 months into the academy to my classmates, they knew me. 0:19:38.356 --> 0:19:41.236 And so it wasn't oh, there's a trans guy in 0:19:41.236 --> 0:19:42.996 our class. They're like, oh, Morgans here in his trans 0:19:43.836 --> 0:19:47.476 You know. I imagine certain police forces can foster a 0:19:47.556 --> 0:19:52.796 kind of macho broye culture. I mean, yeah, So first, 0:19:52.796 --> 0:19:55.596 what it was that the case? And were you included 0:19:55.636 --> 0:19:58.396 in that bro culture? And importantly did you want to 0:19:58.436 --> 0:20:03.756 be oh man? So, yes, it was the case. There 0:20:03.876 --> 0:20:11.796 there was this It was It was very much machismo. 0:20:11.996 --> 0:20:15.836 It was very much you know, all the worst traits 0:20:15.876 --> 0:20:18.716 of quote unquote masculinity that you could kind of put 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:21.036 into a blender and hand a powerful badge, dude, and 0:20:21.356 --> 0:20:27.196 a weapon. Um. And it was when I when I, 0:20:27.356 --> 0:20:29.956 and I want to be specific, because the masculinity parth, 0:20:30.076 --> 0:20:34.516 this this this tough guy thing, was this idea of 0:20:34.556 --> 0:20:37.516 power and containment that you do not back down no 0:20:37.556 --> 0:20:41.556 matter what because you're the cop. And I did not. 0:20:42.436 --> 0:20:44.796 I didn't want to be part of that because my 0:20:44.876 --> 0:20:47.636 whole goal was that's not how we should be doing it. 0:20:48.196 --> 0:20:51.156 I would, honestly, you know, actually get clowned a little 0:20:51.156 --> 0:20:55.316 bit because I did not arrest as many people, or 0:20:55.356 --> 0:20:58.356 I would do more talking on my scenes. And if 0:20:58.396 --> 0:21:02.116 I come at them with the way we've been taught gruffly, 0:21:02.676 --> 0:21:06.036 you know, screaming, don't back down, be a man, quote unquote, 0:21:06.996 --> 0:21:08.916 it's not going to make the situation better. It's not 0:21:08.916 --> 0:21:11.676 going to solve the issue. And so it was there, 0:21:12.556 --> 0:21:16.276 but it wasn't something that I sought to be a 0:21:16.276 --> 0:21:19.836 part of. But I was not excluded. Yeah, I'm wondering 0:21:19.876 --> 0:21:23.876 if you found yourself learning anything new about masculinity from 0:21:23.916 --> 0:21:27.116 being in the police force, if it changed a relationship 0:21:27.156 --> 0:21:33.716 with it. It did because it made me treat it 0:21:34.196 --> 0:21:37.516 not as precious as I had before. Like, I think 0:21:37.556 --> 0:21:41.476 that was me beginning to step more away from the 0:21:41.516 --> 0:21:46.116 traditional ideal of masculinity, you know, being gruff and stoic 0:21:46.196 --> 0:21:50.436 and emotion what's that you know, and kind of do 0:21:50.516 --> 0:21:53.116 I want to act as though this doesn't affect me? 0:21:53.276 --> 0:21:55.796 Do I want to act as though I don't know 0:21:55.836 --> 0:21:58.396 what joy it is I do I want to behave 0:21:58.436 --> 0:22:01.716 in those ways? And so it pushed me further away 0:22:01.916 --> 0:22:04.876 from the traditional idea of masculinity. That was me beginning 0:22:04.876 --> 0:22:08.956 to take the path to I think just being me 0:22:10.156 --> 0:22:13.996 because we have to communicate, because we have to know 0:22:14.076 --> 0:22:17.116 how to talk to one another. We have to label things. 0:22:17.156 --> 0:22:20.116 We have to label actions that are just human actions, 0:22:20.476 --> 0:22:23.076 things that we just do that are just inherently human. 0:22:23.436 --> 0:22:27.396 We label the masculine feminine. That started me on that 0:22:27.476 --> 0:22:31.436 journey of why does it matter? You know, who cares? 0:22:32.876 --> 0:22:35.996 Why did you end up deciding to leave the police force? Gosh? 0:22:36.036 --> 0:22:38.436 I had been on the police department for almost almost 0:22:38.516 --> 0:22:45.716 three years, and I was just tired. Also just facing reality, 0:22:46.116 --> 0:22:51.636 you know, just facing the uphill battle, facing how insurmountable 0:22:52.116 --> 0:22:55.436 that was, realizing that policing would change me before I 0:22:55.436 --> 0:22:58.876 could change it. Because if you wear a costume long enough, 0:22:58.916 --> 0:23:00.796 you start to think it's your real clothes, you know, 0:23:00.876 --> 0:23:04.356 And so you wear this costume of masculinity on the job. 0:23:04.636 --> 0:23:06.476 But if you're on the job twenty four seven and 0:23:06.556 --> 0:23:10.516 you spend so much time in uniform, you can definitely 0:23:10.596 --> 0:23:12.916 lose yourself in the mass that you have to put 0:23:12.996 --> 0:23:15.676 on to where And I did not like that, you know, 0:23:15.756 --> 0:23:19.596 I had to leave. There was just there was nothing 0:23:19.716 --> 0:23:24.636 left for me to do there except lose myself. I see. 0:23:25.116 --> 0:23:26.996