Speaker 1: When I was young, I think I was just dumb
Speaker 1: enough that I think I could beat the guys that
Speaker 1: were better than me. And now that I'm old, I
Speaker 1: think I'm just dumb enough that I can still beat
Speaker 1: those kids that are better than me. So there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of dumb in there that goes on. But
Speaker 1: what separates but is like the juices that come alive
Speaker 1: in your body when you're playing a competitive sport like
Speaker 1: that at the elite level, is you can't reproduce at
Speaker 1: a club championship.
Speaker 2: You can't reproduce on Friday golf. You can't. But that's
Speaker 2: what makes it.
Speaker 1: Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel
Speaker 1: at the other side. So like I say, I'm very
Speaker 1: average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match
Speaker 1: with our friends out here, but I under the gun,
Speaker 1: I just something rises up that gets my juices going.
Speaker 1: And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those
Speaker 1: juices that go in which makes me better, and when
Speaker 1: I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Charlie hoffin PGA two are professional better known as
Speaker 1: the Seagull.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hi everybody, and welcome back.
Speaker 4: To another episode. Thank you for joining me for Off
Speaker 4: the Beat. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, and now
Speaker 4: today I got to record ir L That's right, which
Speaker 4: is young people talk for in person, face to face.
Speaker 4: It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity
Speaker 4: to do that. That was a lot of fun, and
Speaker 4: I did it with today's guest because well he's also
Speaker 4: my neighbor and a good friend. I am talking about
Speaker 4: the seagull Charlie Hoffman, PGA Tour golfer and a PGA
Speaker 4: Tour board member. With what has been going on with
Speaker 4: golf over the last couple of years. Well, he's an insider,
Speaker 4: to say the lead. He's also a fierce champion of
Speaker 4: the sport, both in the sense of being a winner
Speaker 4: and an advocate to making it better and to helping
Speaker 4: golf reach a wider audience. So I'm excited for you
Speaker 4: to hear the inside scoop on the PGA, his recent
Speaker 4: major accomplishment on the Green and yes, our very own
Speaker 4: Friday Golf group, Landon Donovan is a member of that
Speaker 4: group as well. So look out here he comes dropping
Speaker 4: bombs the Seagull Charlie Hoffman, bubble and squeak.
Speaker 5: I love it, Bubble and Squeakna bubble and squeaker, cooking
Speaker 5: at every mole. Lift over from the ninety four.
Speaker 2: Charlie. How's it going? How's it going? It's good to
Speaker 2: see you. We're here at.
Speaker 4: Our We're coming to you live from Rancho Santa Fe
Speaker 4: golf Course.
Speaker 2: How long have you been here? How long have you
Speaker 2: played here? I've long backtrack?
Speaker 1: Story is I grew up getting lessons from the longtime
Speaker 1: pro Chuck Courtney here, so a long long time. I
Speaker 1: grew up in Poway, which is only fifteen twenty minutes
Speaker 1: from here, but been an actual member ten years. We
Speaker 1: bought the house just prior to my kids going to
Speaker 1: school here, and they're in seventh and fifth grade, so
Speaker 1: I bet you close to ten years I remember.
Speaker 2: Right, But you've been playing here since you were a kid.
Speaker 1: I grew up like literally my first instructor, Chuck Courney,
Speaker 1: was the pro here and this is where I drove
Speaker 1: from Poway and my parents used to dropped me off
Speaker 1: and I got lessons.
Speaker 2: Was this so?
Speaker 4: Was would you consider this like your home course? When
Speaker 4: you were out like you weren't allowed to play it?
Speaker 4: Sort of like couldn't you know.
Speaker 2: I just came in and took a lesson and they
Speaker 2: kicked me out. I'm a Poway kid. They went and
Speaker 2: let the Pwai kid in ranch to Santa Fe. Well,
Speaker 2: where where did you play?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Where where was your home course? I grew up a public,
Speaker 2: public golf course.
Speaker 1: We're at Ranch Bernardo in Oaks North Or when I
Speaker 1: got in high school, my parents joined stone Ridge. Uh so,
Speaker 1: first club I was a member. It wasn't until high school.
Speaker 1: So I grew up playing all different golf courses in
Speaker 1: powaway from golf courses aren't even there. Came on ranches
Speaker 1: gone the old I mean half of them, art aren't
Speaker 1: even there any longer, their housing developments.
Speaker 4: But uh so I was. I was a public course
Speaker 4: kid right. Well, so spoiler alert. You grew up in
Speaker 4: the San Diego area. For those of you who don't
Speaker 4: know powways in the San Diego area, I mean you
Speaker 4: you've traveled everywhere around the globe.
Speaker 2: Why why do you call San Diego home.
Speaker 1: It's the best. It's the best spot in the world.
Speaker 1: I've seen it all, literally, the best spot. Now, it
Speaker 1: was great before I started paying taxes. It's not quite
Speaker 1: great now dumb, so much money in the Texas, But
Speaker 1: you know what I lived. I went to college in UNLV,
Speaker 1: which some sort of probably more of a spoiler. I
Speaker 1: won national championship in ninety eight. Stayed out there. I
Speaker 1: tell the stories. I couldn't afford anything else. I was
Speaker 1: lucky enough my grandparents left me some money to go
Speaker 1: to college, didn't need it, got a scholarship, used out
Speaker 1: as down payment of first house right out of college,
Speaker 1: and then sort of just made that my home base.
Speaker 1: Playing professional golf was easy to travel from, great practicabilities,
Speaker 1: a great place as a single young male, also to
Speaker 1: hang out. And then I started having a family and
Speaker 1: decided it's probably a little bit better to raise.
Speaker 2: A family in San Diego and Diego. That's how we
Speaker 2: got here.
Speaker 4: When people ask me as I travel around why San Diego,
Speaker 4: I said, well, it's only bad if you don't like perfect.
Speaker 1: I mean, the true story is, like my wife, I'll
Speaker 1: be on the road for three weeks and I come home.
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, right, let's go on a vacation.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is a vacation. No, I know, I
Speaker 2: just want to be home right.
Speaker 4: Growing up already said you played golf. You took lessons here?
Speaker 4: Were there other sports?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Grew up playing competitive baseball, All Star baseball. Okay, through
Speaker 1: until high school. Golf and baseball were the same time.
Speaker 1: Grew up playing competitive soccer, traveling soccer in Powaway, and
Speaker 1: then I played soccer through my senior year of high school.
Speaker 1: So I played two sports in high school. And then uh, then, obviously,
Speaker 1: once I got recruited to play golf at U and
Speaker 1: LV obviously focused down to one. Right, did your parents
Speaker 1: play golf? The story behind that is my dad didn't
Speaker 1: play golf. It was a friend's grandpa about three doors down,
Speaker 1: Bill Lundry. His grandpa's name was Henry Lundy, invited us
Speaker 1: to go play golf for me and him to go
Speaker 1: play golf with him. We loved it one because we
Speaker 1: both were friends and we could interact. And then my
Speaker 1: dad started using the story of if I wanted to
Speaker 1: spend any time with my son, I had to go.
Speaker 1: I had to pick up golf. So he went and
Speaker 1: played golf every once in a while with us on
Speaker 1: the weekend. And then now he's hooked and probably plays
Speaker 1: more golf than I do.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, he loves it.
Speaker 1: He's a member of our branch Maato Country Club and
Speaker 1: plays all the time.
Speaker 4: So one of the things I like to ask people
Speaker 4: is when you're a kid, like you just said, you
Speaker 4: play soccer, you play competitive baseball, you golf, Like, at
Speaker 4: what point for you is there a shift? Like at
Speaker 4: what point is it like, oh, this is something that
Speaker 4: I could do, or was it just I would need
Speaker 4: to get a scholarship to college so I'm going to
Speaker 4: do that, or was there a moment for you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'd say that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've played competitive golf obviously through San die
Speaker 1: agrian A Golf as a young kid, and then at sixteen,
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough at the back in the day
Speaker 1: at the Buick Invitational, they had an amateur qualifier okay,
Speaker 1: and two guys initially, I mean, which is unheard of
Speaker 1: now if you think about it.
Speaker 2: They had the.
Speaker 1: Local San Diego Golf had or the PGA or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, had a qualifier for two amateurs,
Speaker 1: not pros weren't even allowed.
Speaker 2: So two amateurs played the event.
Speaker 1: And when I was sixteen, I qualified, didn't make the cut,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, holy crap, I'm I'm in the mix.
Speaker 1: I like this warming up next to Jacobson Stadler. Guys,
Speaker 1: I washed on TV, just like the kids are doing now.
Speaker 1: I'm like, got those juices going. I'm like, I like
Speaker 1: this right. Then go to college and I'm eighteen, freshman
Speaker 1: year of college, actually not really playing a ton for
Speaker 1: my college team at U and l V.
Speaker 2: At the time, we were one of the best in
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: And I go and make the cut at to b
Speaker 1: a invitational now the Farmer's Insurance Open in San Diego.
Speaker 1: So I'm eighteen years old, not even playing on my
Speaker 1: college team. That's how good our college team was. And
Speaker 1: my coach is Caddy in and I make the cut.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I'm obviously one of the best players
Speaker 1: in the country. The coach the next week goes, You're
Speaker 1: not even to travel for us. I'm like, what is
Speaker 1: going on? So our team was great. We had a
Speaker 1: bunch of all Americans, bunch Adam Scott. Adam Scott was
Speaker 1: a freshman when I was a senior. But when I
Speaker 1: was a freshman, Chris Riley obviously a Ryder cuper, Chad
Speaker 1: Campbell ride our copper.
Speaker 2: We had.
Speaker 1: We had some great, great players that obviously would outclass
Speaker 1: me at that time. And but that was it was
Speaker 1: humbling and like sort of I knew I had it
Speaker 1: at the same time when I when I was around eighteen,
Speaker 1: thinking I could compete against the best in the world.
Speaker 4: Well before then, though, you you win two state championships.
Speaker 4: Now this is California, Southern California, Southern California. California Southern California.
Speaker 4: What they split it.
Speaker 1: They did split the Northern California and Southern California. Obviously
Speaker 1: it'd be kind of hard to put them both together.
Speaker 1: But who won in Northern California when you want in
Speaker 1: Southern If I had to guess, it would be a
Speaker 1: guy like Joel Krible Joe Carbro sort of dominated. He
Speaker 1: played at Stanford with Tiger, just under Tiger, just after Tiger,
Speaker 1: and he was the sort of the guy in my
Speaker 1: time that wasn't Tiger Woods that won a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of events.
Speaker 4: Did you play I just didn't even occur to me.
Speaker 4: Did you play stuff in California with Tiger when he
Speaker 4: went like when you would have been a little older.
Speaker 1: It's funny, he always played up so when I played
Speaker 1: junior golf stuff, he was playing amateur like US amateur stuff.
Speaker 1: Amate golf, and when I was playing amateur stuff, he
Speaker 1: was en amateur playing professional golf.
Speaker 2: So our past didn't cross a.
Speaker 1: Ton, even though we're I think he's one year older
Speaker 1: than me really growing up. Besides, he dominated anything and
Speaker 1: everything he played in.
Speaker 4: Right, you go to UNLV, you win a national championship
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety eight on that team. By the time
Speaker 4: you won the national championship, how much were you playing that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was playing full time there, but I would be
Speaker 1: the first person to tell you I was probably the.
Speaker 2: Number four guy on the team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, Yeah, it might have been that the coach
Speaker 1: so I like to have fun in college. It might
Speaker 1: have been that I didn't always put all the effort
Speaker 1: and work in that.
Speaker 2: I maybe could have. But our teams were stacked.
Speaker 1: We were never out of like the top three in
Speaker 1: the country when I was the four years ours there
Speaker 1: is I mean it was, I mean somewhat of a dynasty.
Speaker 1: We should have won a couple national championships. We only
Speaker 1: won one. But I was never the best player, and
Speaker 1: any time I wasn't the best player in junior golf,
Speaker 1: I was never the best player in amateur golf and
Speaker 1: professional golf. I just sort of succeeded. I sort of
Speaker 1: put my granted, but I still wouldn't say I was
Speaker 1: the best player ever to play the PGA Tour. But
Speaker 1: I mean, I've sort of always been a role player
Speaker 1: and always knew I could beet and play against guys.
Speaker 4: So one thing that's interesting to me, and now having
Speaker 4: played with you and others who are professional, what would
Speaker 4: you say is the intangible or like there's a lot
Speaker 4: of great players, right, I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: great players at this club that are like plus five,
Speaker 4: plus six, you know, but couldn't ever sort of make
Speaker 4: it beyond being just a recreational golfer.
Speaker 2: Like what do you think that it is? Is it
Speaker 2: a mindset? Is it a what is it that takes
Speaker 2: you just to that extra level.
Speaker 1: I've said this before. When I was young, I think
Speaker 1: I was just dumb enough that I think I could
Speaker 1: beat the guys that were better than me. And now
Speaker 1: that I'm old, I think I'm just dumb enough that
Speaker 1: I can still beat those kids that are better than me.
Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of dumb in there that
Speaker 1: goes on. But what separates is like the juices that
Speaker 1: come alive in your body when you're playing a competitive
Speaker 1: sport like that at the elite level. Is you can't
Speaker 1: reproduce at a club championship, you can't produce on Friday golf.
Speaker 2: You can, but that's what makes it.
Speaker 1: Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel
Speaker 1: at the other side. So like I say, I'm very
Speaker 1: average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match
Speaker 1: with our friends out here. But if under the gun,
Speaker 1: I just something rises up that gets my juices going.
Speaker 1: And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those
Speaker 1: juices that go in which makes me better.
Speaker 2: And when I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them. Right.
Speaker 4: Well, I said a long time ago, I have to
Speaker 4: play for something.
Speaker 2: I think there has to be something, as you know,
Speaker 2: for me, there has to be something.
Speaker 4: On the line, or well there's no steaks, Yeah, it
Speaker 4: doesn't matter, and you're feeling in the ultimate steaks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, so I still look.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously more you gamble for on the golf
Speaker 1: course somewhere it gets my attention. But I learned from
Speaker 1: a young age that gambling was part of golf and
Speaker 1: that's just sort of how you got better. And you
Speaker 1: saw there's some always some sort of breaking point. You
Speaker 1: always found that you tried to find that in a
Speaker 1: person and see what broke them, if it was money
Speaker 1: or how you talked, or how fast you played or
Speaker 1: how slow you played. You always tried to find an
Speaker 1: edge on somebody. And I think that's I've always looked
Speaker 1: for that edge to be beat somebody, and that's why
Speaker 1: I've always been fairly successful doing it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: I was going to talk about this later, but it
Speaker 4: seems like a perfect transition. You have a nickname, yes,
Speaker 4: the seagull.
Speaker 2: Yes, what does that refer to? The seagull?
Speaker 1: So it transpired back in Las Vegas, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to probably give Maleinger, John Mallinger the credit on this.
Speaker 1: And Bill Lundy and I were chipping and I think
Speaker 1: we might have been calling Mallinger of the Seagull to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, and then obviously it might might
Speaker 1: have turned on me, and then somehow Colt knows.
Speaker 2: Got ahold of it.
Speaker 1: But back to the actual, what does this seagull mean?
Speaker 1: It is like I fly around and shit on everybody.
Speaker 1: I talked shit about it, I mean, but I do
Speaker 1: it to your face. I don't know, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't do it behind your back. Right, That's where sort
Speaker 1: of Colt obviously couldn't play because he wasn't very good
Speaker 1: and he got an announcing gig and uh and then
Speaker 1: he was People start to listen to what he said,
Speaker 1: and he sort of I would say, I would credit
Speaker 1: him to making that mainstream the Seagull. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's his fault or his greatness, but
Speaker 1: I think it originally came from Mallinger.
Speaker 2: Are you are you proud of that? I embraced it. Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't. I never denied it, but I
Speaker 2: embrace it. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a bad thing. Right.
Speaker 4: Does it give you a competitive advantage? Is that what
Speaker 4: you're doing is you are you looking to try to
Speaker 4: get in someone's.
Speaker 1: Head or like on a Tuesday, you're always I mean
Speaker 1: that's when you talk trash. Everybody's on a Tuesday when
Speaker 1: you're gambling or have a match, and that's sort of
Speaker 1: when you're sort of, what's this guy have?
Speaker 2: What's this guy not have? And he sort of, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, the greats.
Speaker 1: Are harder to get into their head and the not
Speaker 1: grades are a little bit easier.
Speaker 2: So I try to.
Speaker 1: Find something I might store it in the back of
Speaker 1: my brain and then bring it out on it at
Speaker 1: a time, and so that I think that's the seagle
Speaker 1: side of it.
Speaker 2: I'm strategic on that side.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say in competition, I'm not going to try
Speaker 1: to use on you, but in a gambling I definitely will.
Speaker 4: Right you turned pro just a couple of years out
Speaker 4: of college. Start on the by at the time, the
Speaker 4: buy dot Com tour. This is the corn Ferry Tour.
Speaker 4: Now correct, right.
Speaker 5: You?
Speaker 2: You only made four of nineteen, missed my first sixteen
Speaker 2: in a row.
Speaker 1: If you want to be actively sixteen sixteen in a row,
Speaker 1: this is actually probably not many people know this story.
Speaker 1: So Zach Johnson and myself somehow became friends.
Speaker 2: I have no idea at all or why. But he's
Speaker 2: a nice guy.
Speaker 1: A nice guy, but he missed the first They want
Speaker 1: to say twelve cuts in a row, missed the first sixteen.
Speaker 1: We roomed half the time together, and we're like, what
Speaker 1: the heck is going on? There's no chance for going
Speaker 1: to be any I mean, think of those two names. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Zach's definitely in Hall of famer. I've been out there
Speaker 1: for nearly twenty years now. It's like two guys that
Speaker 1: couldn't break an egg. So any any kid listening to this,
Speaker 1: and I'm not telling be professional golfer or anything, but
Speaker 1: you can make it after some struggles. But we were, honestly,
Speaker 1: we're driving the country. We both had a car, drove
Speaker 1: the country. We had a lot of weekends off, we
Speaker 1: practiced a ton together, and we just tried to become better.
Speaker 1: And at that age, as I say, I learned way
Speaker 1: more in those first sixteen events of the year I
Speaker 1: played golf, and I've learned since, Learned how to travel,
Speaker 1: learned how to deal with the emotion of missing Cutch, learned,
Speaker 1: just learned so much about myself in a very short
Speaker 1: period of time. Because I'd always been very successful, most
Speaker 1: most kids playingrofessional golf had. But I mean, I've excelled
Speaker 1: in junior golf, I excelled in college golf, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you and I get right out
Speaker 1: of college on I would say, a major tour, the
Speaker 1: buy dot Com Tour, the corn Ferry Tour, which I
Speaker 1: think only two kids got. Throw all the back when
Speaker 1: Q school is coming back but back when Q school
Speaker 1: was the only way to get on tour. Only two
Speaker 1: guys from college that he even made it to the
Speaker 1: Buy dot Com tour. So it's a very small group.
Speaker 1: But you're thrown in the middle of it. There's no
Speaker 1: one else helping helping you out. It's not like this
Speaker 1: day and age when everybody has an agent knew doing
Speaker 1: hotels for you.
Speaker 2: I mean I had an agent, but that's it was
Speaker 2: just a different time.
Speaker 1: The Internet didn't really exist, and I'm picking up flyers
Speaker 1: on the way from Denny's on what the cheapest hotel
Speaker 1: is to stay at. But it was a long road
Speaker 1: that first year on the corn Ferry tour. But two
Speaker 1: of us that weren't very successful ended up being successful
Speaker 1: because I think we learned from our mistakes and what
Speaker 1: we did wrong and how we could do things better.
Speaker 4: First of all, that's a great lesson, right, Like take
Speaker 4: that adversity. It reminds me of when the La Rams
Speaker 4: moved from.
Speaker 2: This is like such a weird reference, but I don't know.
Speaker 4: This is what popped into my head when the La
Speaker 4: Rams moved from Saint Louis to la and there was
Speaker 4: this show All or Nothing on Amazon Prime that highlighted
Speaker 4: their season, and they're moving and spoiler alert, they were terrible.
Speaker 4: Jeff Fisher gets fired in the middle of the year
Speaker 4: and anyway, I got brought in to help sell this
Speaker 4: all or nothing documentary because the rams were like, yeah,
Speaker 4: we don't want anything to do with that, and the
Speaker 4: story became how difficult that transition was for everyone, right,
Speaker 4: because you're moving not just you know, shoulder pads and
Speaker 4: helmet and all of your equipment, but your personnel. Everyone's
Speaker 4: trying to find a place to.
Speaker 2: Live, families and families.
Speaker 4: Where do you live in relation to where you're practicing
Speaker 4: and it was a temporary practice facility. Anyway, Like how
Speaker 4: much they struggle to it makes a ton of sense. Right,
Speaker 4: You're in high school and your parents are taking care
Speaker 4: of you, I mean to whatever degree they are.
Speaker 2: And then you're going to college and somebody.
Speaker 4: Is taking to university, taking care of everything, paying for
Speaker 4: travel and telling you this is where you're staying, which good, bad,
Speaker 4: or indifferent. Someone's telling you what to do and you
Speaker 4: don't have to worry about that. But yeah, being out
Speaker 4: on your own for the first time and traveling around
Speaker 4: the country has got to be really difficult.
Speaker 1: With no money, with no money, literally no money. I'm
Speaker 1: sure my parents helped me out, but I had nothing.
Speaker 1: I mean, and speaking of having nothing, then I wasn't
Speaker 1: making any money because the only way to make money
Speaker 1: is to make the cut. There were some Monday pro ams.
Speaker 1: I would say that you could, I would would fit
Speaker 1: the hotel bills and stuff like that, but then you
Speaker 1: had a caddy. I mean, I was losing losing my
Speaker 1: butt that first year. But obviously I learned a lot
Speaker 1: through those mistakes. But it was very, very hard, and
Speaker 1: I think the agents have gotten a lot better have
Speaker 1: held to get guys navigate through that.
Speaker 2: But back then it really wasn't wasn't there? Why did
Speaker 2: you keep going? You know what?
Speaker 1: There was a period of time where I probably didn't
Speaker 1: want to keep going. But that year that I missed
Speaker 1: sixteen arrow games with some momentum at the inn of the
Speaker 1: year and almost got my tour card through tour school
Speaker 1: is actually I was right on the cuss and I
Speaker 1: made a bou gear two coming in and end up
Speaker 1: not getting my full PGA tour card. And then I
Speaker 1: went back to the buy dot Com tour Cornferry Tour
Speaker 1: and uh I had a decent year. But back then
Speaker 1: only I want to say, like fifty five guys or
Speaker 1: sixty guys kept their card on that tour, and I
Speaker 1: want to say it was in mid seventies or something
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I had to go back to the first stage tour school.
Speaker 1: And then I missed that. I'm like, holy, what the
Speaker 1: heck is going on? I went from fairly stiphoned the
Speaker 1: next thing, you have nothing to go back on. Played
Speaker 1: so many tours in Europe a little bit, but there
Speaker 1: was a small point in time when I was playing
Speaker 1: mini tours and like, if I don't get if I
Speaker 1: don't get through this year, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: that journey pro guy that's thirty something years old and
Speaker 1: playing mini tours and not making any money. So I
Speaker 1: gave myself one more year to do that. And this
Speaker 1: period of time felt like longer than my eighteen or
Speaker 1: nineteen years on tour.
Speaker 2: It was a weird part.
Speaker 1: I mean, not where you want to be struggling in
Speaker 1: a but looking back, it didn't really take that long
Speaker 1: for me to get on tour.
Speaker 2: But those those years were long years and hard years.
Speaker 1: And I was able to get my full by icon
Speaker 1: card back or corn Ferry Tour card back by doing
Speaker 1: Monday qualifiers and ended up winning a year. Didn't get
Speaker 1: my tour card that year, and the next year I
Speaker 1: played spit the full year on that Corn Ferry Tour
Speaker 1: and was able to get my card through the top.
Speaker 1: I think it was twenty guys, and I haven't looked
Speaker 1: back since, and I don't I think I think it
Speaker 1: was so hard down there, you don't want to go
Speaker 1: back there. It's like you got so much scar, You're like,
Speaker 1: let me stay up here as long as I can.
Speaker 1: I still firmly believe that anybody that goes back up
Speaker 1: to that tour after a couple of years on tour,
Speaker 1: they're like, why am I down? Is very depressing if
Speaker 1: you've tasted the PGA Tour and think you belong up there. Right,
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, you win the Permian Permian Basin Open,
Speaker 1: Permian Basin Open. That's your first Professon Midland Texas, Midland Texas.
Speaker 2: What was that like?
Speaker 1: It was such a world win year because I was
Speaker 1: sort of the year I'm like, if I don't do it,
Speaker 1: and then I was able to win and it gave
Speaker 1: me obviously some financial ability to play the next few
Speaker 1: years and do that.
Speaker 2: It's it was awesome.
Speaker 1: Obviously without that win, I I may not been here,
Speaker 1: may not been playing professional golf, So that was important. Obviously,
Speaker 1: would love to have got my card that year, but
Speaker 1: it took me a whole another year to get my
Speaker 1: card and I was able to do it. But that
Speaker 1: win is as special as pretty much any of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually probably a close second to the Bob Hope that
Speaker 1: I won my first PGA Tour win No. Seven, but
Speaker 1: that's probably because you get on tour and I played
Speaker 1: a whole year on tour and that was my first
Speaker 1: event in seven and a good friend that I met
Speaker 1: through through the ranks of playing celebrity golf tournaments, and
Speaker 1: George Lopez was hosting it that year, which he didn't
Speaker 1: host it many years, but it was it was actually
Speaker 1: nice to have someone around that we played a practice
Speaker 1: round and just knew each other and my first year
Speaker 1: and I was able to win the event and he
Speaker 1: was watching it.
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And that sort of gave me the thought of belonging
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour because you really didn't know if
Speaker 1: he belonged and I'd only been out there a year
Speaker 1: and you're a young kid, and it's like it gave me,
Speaker 1: I would say, a spot in the fraternity of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: And but was what was really.
Speaker 1: Weird that I haven't talked much about, is like, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, a young kid and I get thrown
Speaker 1: in like the Ryder Cup discussion the president.
Speaker 2: I'm like, hold on a second.
Speaker 1: I just went from trying to keep my job X
Speaker 1: amount of months ago, now I'm throwing it.
Speaker 2: I wasn't ready for that either, and.
Speaker 1: Sort of struggle and put some more pressure on myself
Speaker 1: that I really hadn't thought about.
Speaker 2: But that that was a that was.
Speaker 1: A great time, but sort of all of a sudden
Speaker 1: put added pressure on myself that really wasn't needed.
Speaker 4: Right through the BMW Championship. You and I have talked
Speaker 4: about that, which is a current event on the corn
Speaker 4: Ferry Tour. I've had the opportunity to go and play
Speaker 4: with a bunch of those guys, Max.
Speaker 2: Homer, Harry Higgs.
Speaker 4: I mean the ability of those guys again, it's like
Speaker 4: it's like you're playing on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: I mean, the ability is insane.
Speaker 1: They may have more ability to honestly like raw talent.
Speaker 1: Those guys have raw talent, they just don't don't know
Speaker 1: how to harness it for them and how to I
Speaker 1: would say, actually play golf. But like you said in
Speaker 1: the Ranger, and watch those guys hit golf balls on
Speaker 1: the corn Ferry Tour nowadays, they probably hit it further
Speaker 1: and make a different sound than a lot of the
Speaker 1: guys on the PGA Tour. But they just haven't sort
Speaker 1: of figured out how to play PGA Tour golf and
Speaker 1: navigate themselves around the golf course.
Speaker 2: But there's tremendous talent down on that tour. I mean
Speaker 2: it's been.
Speaker 1: Debatable for the last few years versus the second best
Speaker 1: tour in the world. And obviously your produces amazing talent
Speaker 1: on the DPAT their top their top end talent is
Speaker 1: top end. But if you go to the middle of
Speaker 1: the talent the corn Ferry Tour, middle of the talent
Speaker 1: could be a PJ Tour star the next year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, why do you think that they're well, I mean,
Speaker 4: like you said, some of them are just young and
Speaker 4: they just have to take the time.
Speaker 2: Not the learning curve that I just talked about.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like they they I mean, it's easier
Speaker 1: I think now with Internet and agents and all that
Speaker 1: stuff to be able to travel around and understand where
Speaker 1: to stay and get caddies.
Speaker 2: But there's a learning curve for all of us.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's I think that's the biggest thing
Speaker 1: you sort of with the Corn Ferry Tour does great
Speaker 1: job of its teaching guys how to travel, teaching how
Speaker 1: to score, teaching how to play golf.
Speaker 2: And once you get.
Speaker 1: On the PJ Tour, you're playing You're not playing against
Speaker 1: the best guys your age, You're playing the best guys
Speaker 1: that were the best guys for the last.
Speaker 2: Couple of generations.
Speaker 1: So that I mean it's it's some serious talent you're
Speaker 1: and it's you're thrown right in the mixer.
Speaker 4: What has been your philosophy over your career obviously long
Speaker 4: career in terms of caddy Like.
Speaker 2: What are you?
Speaker 4: What are you looking for? What kind of person do
Speaker 4: you feel helps you the most being out there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Week to week, I've really only had three caddies.
Speaker 1: My first caddy, Miguel Rivera, was was a guy that
Speaker 1: was trying to play professional golf. Went to some Monday
Speaker 1: qualifiers with me on that Corn for a tour of
Speaker 1: the year I was like the last year and he
Speaker 1: wouldn't qualify.
Speaker 2: I would qualify, and then he would caddy for me.
Speaker 1: He'd make some money to cover somebody spend to be
Speaker 1: able to go the next week.
Speaker 2: So that next thing, you know, I get my tour card.
Speaker 1: He doesn't play golf in morning, he comes and caddies
Speaker 1: for me on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: That lasted nearly ten years. What did he give you?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 2: He I always liked the friend on the bag and
Speaker 2: the guy that knew golf.
Speaker 1: So friendship. We guy to be able to go to
Speaker 1: dinner with God, to be able to hang out with
Speaker 1: and knew the game of golf, so that was key.
Speaker 1: So and then the next guy transitions into Brett Waldman,
Speaker 1: which was one of the better, better caddies on tour.
Speaker 2: Lost success. He was a great player, just done.
Speaker 1: He played caddied on tour, caddy for Camilla for a
Speaker 1: bunch of years, I mean go on and on. But
Speaker 1: his best year with Camila when he was playing good
Speaker 1: in the FedEx Cup. And then he decided he wanted
Speaker 1: to go try to play professional golf, so he went
Speaker 1: went to Cuscoll He got his corn Ferry Tour card
Speaker 1: back and he played his corn Ferry Tour and he
Speaker 1: was he was good, but then he lost his card
Speaker 1: and now he doesn't have a job again.
Speaker 2: Then he starts catting again. That's how he sorted.
Speaker 1: He was caddying for David Thomas actually before he started
Speaker 1: catting for me, and Uh, I just had part of
Speaker 1: ways and my miguel and I called him up and
Speaker 1: uh he was able at caddy and he first week
Speaker 1: he caddy for me, I won. So I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good start. And uh he caddied for
Speaker 1: me about four years. But back he fit the mold.
Speaker 1: He was a friend that I'd know him through through
Speaker 1: the years of playing the PGA Tour. Uh Andy nu
Speaker 1: golf and then now my current caddy is Andy Barnes,
Speaker 1: uh older brother of Ricky Barnes, and he played at
Speaker 1: UO of A. He used to kick my button amateur golf.
Speaker 1: He was very very good golfer. But uh, I would
Speaker 1: say injuries back injuries sort of sidelined his uh career
Speaker 1: of playing golf.
Speaker 2: And he caddied for me a little bit early on
Speaker 2: in my career.
Speaker 1: Uh, but then he got the opportunity to go be
Speaker 1: an assistant coach at Arizona, and I'm like, He's like,
Speaker 1: what should I do?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you can always come back in Caddy.
Speaker 2: But the opportunity to.
Speaker 1: Be a coach and in the city you grew up
Speaker 1: or not grew up that you live in now is
Speaker 1: you can't pass that opportunity yet, right. He went, did
Speaker 1: that for a few years, liked it, but decided when
Speaker 1: he wanted to get the head coaching job there and
Speaker 1: saw that it wasn't going to get the head coaching
Speaker 1: job there, he decided to come back and Caddy and
Speaker 1: we sort of joined up forces of four or five
Speaker 1: years ago, and next thing you know, it's nearly I've
Speaker 1: just finished my pretty much my eighteenth year on tour,
Speaker 1: going my nineteenth year, and I've only been through three guys.
Speaker 2: So the common denomeer is you.
Speaker 1: Got you had to play golf, and you had to
Speaker 1: be I had to be able to get along with
Speaker 1: you because you're right, you're with these people more than
Speaker 1: you are your wife, right, and literally traveling on planes,
Speaker 1: renting cars together.
Speaker 2: Some in early on career split in hotel rooms.
Speaker 1: Now obviously fortunate enough now have to split hotel rooms,
Speaker 1: but a lot of times stay in the same spot.
Speaker 1: So you spend a lot of time with these guys,
Speaker 1: you better be able to get along with them.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: How much are they giving you advice about shot or
Speaker 4: club selection? Is so like pedestrian, But I mean, like,
Speaker 4: are you going to hit a six iron this way
Speaker 4: or a seven iron that way?
Speaker 2: Are they talking? Is more keep you in check? Okay?
Speaker 2: So I'll use an example.
Speaker 1: Say three holes earlier are the same direction, hole and wind,
Speaker 1: and you hit a six iron we'll say one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty five yards, and then you got the same
Speaker 1: shots like one ninety five and the only and you
Speaker 1: get the carry of the bunkers one ninety's like, dude,
Speaker 1: you just hit this club one only one eighty five
Speaker 1: the whole prior, I don't think you can make it
Speaker 1: over that bunker, and say I would have pulled six irons,
Speaker 1: like we've got X amount behind the green. I think
Speaker 1: five irons better play here. It sort of keeps you
Speaker 1: in check, making sure you make the right decision. Ideally,
Speaker 1: you're thinking clearly, and he doesn't have to do a lot.
Speaker 1: But that's not always the case. You always think he
Speaker 1: might be able to and I think he's just there
Speaker 1: to state the obvious, making sure you don't make a mistake. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we're in control of a club, we pulling what shot
Speaker 1: we hit. But they're they're the only people watching every shot,
Speaker 1: you and your caddy, So they're there to keep you
Speaker 1: in check and make sure your motions are in check
Speaker 1: and and when you're acting like a prick, and to
Speaker 1: keep you in check. And that's what that's the hard
Speaker 1: part of the especially being a friend, is being able
Speaker 1: to say something in us acknowledge it when we're not
Speaker 1: doing what we're supposed to be doing right.
Speaker 4: Your most recent title, the Texas Open, you got to
Speaker 4: a career high world ranking of twentieth in the world.
Speaker 2: Was that a big deal for you? Top twenty?
Speaker 1: You know what, I never thought about world ranking a ton,
Speaker 1: probably because I wasn't that high up in my career.
Speaker 1: I would say I love competing that that event. Obviously,
Speaker 1: again I was hot and I played well, but playing
Speaker 1: in majors always got my juices going.
Speaker 2: Always.
Speaker 1: That's sort of what every everybody's career is based off of.
Speaker 1: I wasn't I didn't play a ton in my career.
Speaker 1: I played a decent amount and I competed a decent
Speaker 1: amount in them, but something about the majors getting I
Speaker 1: got those juices going a little.
Speaker 2: Bit more than the PGA Tour event.
Speaker 1: But I always formed a schedule around the golf course
Speaker 1: I wanted to play, not always based on the best
Speaker 1: field field qualities. It was just like sort of like
Speaker 1: what flowed, which is different times. If you look back now,
Speaker 1: it's like maybe I wouldn't have done that. But I
Speaker 1: never really looked at per sizes. I never really looked
Speaker 1: at who was playing to what events I want to play.
Speaker 1: I sort of navigated around cities I wanted to go to,
Speaker 1: or now birthdays and events that I have during the summer.
Speaker 2: That so it's going to be a different time with the.
Speaker 1: New schedule and the PGA Tour, what guys playing, what
Speaker 1: they don't play, but my home my whole career, I
Speaker 1: was able to pick and plan strategically and what course
Speaker 1: I wanted to play. And that might have inhibited my
Speaker 1: world ranking because there's definitely an art to be able
Speaker 1: to climb up that world ranking board, and some guys
Speaker 1: have played it perfectly and I just was never into
Speaker 1: that game of doing that.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: Being on the tour eighteen years, you do you did Okay,
Speaker 4: you managed it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: As you mentioned before, there is there is a group
Speaker 4: we call it Friday Golf here in Rancho Santa Fe.
Speaker 4: A big deal this year at the Wendham Championship in Greensboro,
Speaker 4: North Carolina.
Speaker 2: You make an albatross.
Speaker 4: This My phone went off more within a thirty minute
Speaker 4: period then maybe any time in my life. Tell me
Speaker 4: about that and the feeling of that, and the messages
Speaker 4: that you must have received from not just us but
Speaker 4: everybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was almost like whenning a golf tournament on the
Speaker 1: message side, but walk you through the shot was it was.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting part five.
Speaker 1: It's short, little part five, but there's a crosspunker and
Speaker 1: then hazard going down the left hand side, and it
Speaker 1: was probably three wood off the tee would be in
Speaker 1: the strategic move and be able to hit we'll say
Speaker 1: a long iron or a wood to the center of
Speaker 1: the green and put over. And I was in the position.
Speaker 1: It was the last tournament sort of the year of
Speaker 1: the FedEx Cup. I really didn't have a ton of
Speaker 1: loser gain from it. To my caddy and I are like, well,
Speaker 1: let's try to feed a driver up there and sort
Speaker 1: of into this neck and then you have a better
Speaker 1: angle into the pen and try to make an egle
Speaker 1: of some sort. I was able to do that, and
Speaker 1: then I hit the beautiful cut six ron, probably a
Speaker 1: little further right than I intended, but it landed just
Speaker 1: perfectly soft and night I saw the gallery hand that
Speaker 1: you couldn't see the ball on the hole, but the
Speaker 1: gallery hands went up. They're like uh, and then like sheering,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden they just went crazy.
Speaker 1: And I mean it for I would say the Windom
Speaker 1: Championship amazing champian, but it's not.
Speaker 2: It's not a major. There's not usually a ton of
Speaker 2: but that this hole.
Speaker 1: Had a ton of people, a lot of corporate box
Speaker 1: around and it was it was loud right around that hole,
Speaker 1: and uh it was.
Speaker 2: It was obviously amazing.
Speaker 1: Feelings is the first first one I've made on the
Speaker 1: PGA tour that I recollect.
Speaker 2: My stat say it's your first, yeah.
Speaker 1: First one. But I got a funny story. We'll go
Speaker 1: back to reverse. I don't know why this even came
Speaker 1: to my head, but my wife at the time girlfriend
Speaker 1: came out to boise Wise playing probably by dot Com
Speaker 1: tour back in the day, and she.
Speaker 2: Never watched me play golf.
Speaker 1: Okay, I go, I'm starting on the back nine and
Speaker 1: make an albatross on the fourteenth hole, and then like
Speaker 1: four holes later on the par five, I shank it
Speaker 1: in the water. I tell I tell my wife or
Speaker 1: not not my wife girlfriend. I'm like, you won't believe this,
Speaker 1: but you'll probably never see those two shots ever again
Speaker 1: from me. And then it was a span of forty
Speaker 1: five minutes. That was the last time I think I
Speaker 1: had an albatross and competitive golf was at it at
Speaker 1: a pot of com But I mean, obviously my phone
Speaker 1: went crazy, just like just like yours, because I was
Speaker 1: on the half those group texts. But it's fun to
Speaker 1: have a support system here that are rooting for me,
Speaker 1: a bunch of people that become new friends here in
Speaker 1: the town. Obviously you get the old friends and the
Speaker 1: golfers that all saw it. But the funny even backstory
Speaker 1: behind that is that albatross actually knocked Justin Thomas out
Speaker 1: of the playoffs because I moved up so much and
Speaker 1: I took points away from home. A lot of people
Speaker 1: didn't it nor really catch media attention. But if you
Speaker 1: do the math, if I don't finish twelfth and he
Speaker 1: finished his twelfth with one less guy he gets enough
Speaker 1: points to get in.
Speaker 2: The FedEx Cup playoffs. But that's that's a little side note.
Speaker 2: Have you talked to him this? He doesn't talk to
Speaker 2: me anymore.
Speaker 4: So I have to bring this up. We brought up
Speaker 4: our group. There was a discussion the other day. Are
Speaker 4: good friend guest on the podcast here Landon Donovan is
Speaker 4: a ten handicap. He claimed the other night that by
Speaker 4: the end of next year, so fifteen sixteen months from now,
Speaker 4: he will be a one point eight.
Speaker 2: You know what, I've gotten to little Land in just
Speaker 2: the same avenues as you have. Yes, he is. He's
Speaker 2: the most coachable.
Speaker 1: Athlete I've ever been around. I say athlete because he
Speaker 1: is an athlete. Yes, Like sometimes you tell people things
Speaker 1: and I'm an athlete too, go ahead. They can't do,
Speaker 1: and they can't implement, And his being able to retain
Speaker 1: the information, be able to implement the information that you're
Speaker 1: trying to do is literally second to.
Speaker 2: None that anybody.
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not an instructor that I've tried to help
Speaker 1: or try to say things to. And he's open for succession,
Speaker 1: which may hurt him down the road, but right now,
Speaker 1: he's a sponge trying to retain any information. I'll tell
Speaker 1: the story the first time I played, and he just
Speaker 1: asked me about chipping, and he had couldn't couldn't chip,
Speaker 1: couldn't get it on the green, And gave him a
Speaker 1: couple of tips and like literally like three holes later,
Speaker 1: he was able to do it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is but he was so raw.
Speaker 1: He didn't he didn't know what he was doing was wrong,
Speaker 1: and doing something else was easy because he didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do to begin with. So if I had
Speaker 1: to place a wager on that as competitive.
Speaker 2: He is one point eight.
Speaker 1: It's crazy to me to even think about that, but
Speaker 1: I've if he really doesn't I think he I think
Speaker 1: he could do it.
Speaker 4: Think about the guy you're doing this, because now he's no,
Speaker 4: he's going to listen and he's gonna think that he
Speaker 4: can do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but think about it.
Speaker 1: He never even touched a club, I mean pretty much
Speaker 1: never touched a club until last a year.
Speaker 2: And he's a ten now. Yeah, but there's but he
Speaker 2: knows how to chick. You know, he can putt he
Speaker 2: knows how to chick because of you.
Speaker 1: But he's also over like a four foot like some
Speaker 1: people shake and he doesn't give a ship.
Speaker 2: He just knocks in the back like so all right,
Speaker 2: I say, I know, I I hear you. I think
Speaker 2: he can do it. I most bet you go.
Speaker 1: There's no there's no way they're going to even come
Speaker 1: close up. I think he can do it. It's a
Speaker 1: long shot, but I think he can do it.
Speaker 2: All right, You're not you're not buying that, very skeptic.
Speaker 4: Very to me, there's a there's a huge like to
Speaker 4: be a ten is huge, yeah, but then there's a
Speaker 4: huge jump to like a six, and then to me,
Speaker 4: the biggest jump of all And maybe it's because I've been.
Speaker 2: Like at the six.
Speaker 4: To go to like a four or three, even though
Speaker 4: that's really cool, that's a huge other because that's becomes
Speaker 4: a you're shooting in the seventies.
Speaker 2: Every time, Yes, yes, to be a three or four
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 1: Cant shoot under part regularly to even be close to
Speaker 1: it single digit or a two with that he is
Speaker 1: but yeah, let's let's be honest.
Speaker 2: He's got nothing but time, so he could do it.
Speaker 4: You heard it here first Full Swing Getting a lot
Speaker 4: of tension, The golf documentary from Netflix, Huge Success. I
Speaker 4: read last night and then looked it up again this
Speaker 4: morning to write it down. Forty two percent of the
Speaker 4: people who have watched say they're watching more golf now
Speaker 4: and because we know how the world works and where
Speaker 4: money is. Thirty six percent of people say they're spending
Speaker 4: more time looking up on social media sites.
Speaker 2: Good for the game. Full swing way better than I anticipated.
Speaker 1: But obviously I don't know if it could ever come
Speaker 1: in at a better time for full swing?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: Correct, I mean, I'll use I mean Drivers Survive. I've
Speaker 1: never watched a race car race in my life. I
Speaker 1: started watching Drivers just five and next thing, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean literally this morning. I watched the rerun of
Speaker 1: Singapore F one this morning, I mean working out a
Speaker 1: five thirty the morning, so it does work. I started
Speaker 1: watching F one because of it. The numbers don't lie.
Speaker 1: It's the reason why we did it as a PGA tour.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was it was it endorsed by
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. Yes, it was endorsed.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yeah, you had to give them access and
Speaker 2: ability to do that.
Speaker 1: No, as far as I know, which is mind blowing
Speaker 1: to me, no one was paid to do it. It
Speaker 1: was all volunteer, volunteering your time and have letting somebody.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I was approached, but I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever done it. I don't want a camera in
Speaker 1: front of my face.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think my value can only go down if the
Speaker 1: camera's in front of my face the whole time.
Speaker 2: So, uh, these guys have embraced it. Obviously.
Speaker 1: The producer is an amazing job to make portray them
Speaker 1: in the right light. And uh, it was great to
Speaker 1: have to live and the tour and everything else go
Speaker 1: against each other and and just sort of see how
Speaker 1: it was shaken out and just see personalities of guys
Speaker 1: that you may not see on TV. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think Joel Damon would. I mean, the whole the whole
Speaker 1: series is great, and yeah, if you haven't watched it,
Speaker 1: I recommend it. I don't think anything was that riveting
Speaker 1: to someone that's inside it.
Speaker 2: But from the.
Speaker 1: People that I know that don't watch a ton of
Speaker 1: golf that wash it all loved.
Speaker 2: It well to your point.
Speaker 4: Just yesterday actually on Sunday, Sahith Thagala won the event
Speaker 4: and there was a ton of media exposure around it
Speaker 4: because he was so engaging and his family story in
Speaker 4: the documentary was so engaged.
Speaker 2: I mean I thought so he.
Speaker 4: Like was like emotional watching him in the documentary. And
Speaker 4: now he becomes someone that maybe people root for.
Speaker 2: He's pound for pound, the loudest gallery in all the golf.
Speaker 1: He's got his family or families, So I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many people following him around, and I bet you
Speaker 1: even more since the Netflix has come out. But he
Speaker 1: he's awesome. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. He's
Speaker 1: a great young player, and obviously he's he's a rising
Speaker 1: star in our sport and in Netflix got it before
Speaker 1: before he won, which is even better.
Speaker 6: Yeah, for those of you who don't know, Charlie is
Speaker 6: on the board of the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4: That kind of makes you like your own boss. I
Speaker 4: guess all golfers are their own bosses. But what made
Speaker 4: you want to do that?
Speaker 2: You know what?
Speaker 1: I'd always voice my opinion to the guys early on
Speaker 1: in my career, I'd say, and I guess I didn't
Speaker 1: kick myself on the button say anything wrong. And I
Speaker 1: was approached by the staff do you want to run
Speaker 1: to be? And it starts with like the Player Advisory
Speaker 1: Council that sort of reports the board.
Speaker 2: The player directors did that.
Speaker 1: For a few years and then did staff's like, I
Speaker 1: think we're going to nominate you for election to go
Speaker 1: on on the board. And I actually lost once or
Speaker 1: twice prior before getting on the board, a lot of seniority.
Speaker 1: I'd say, I think Davis beat me out one year
Speaker 1: and Davis Love beat.
Speaker 2: Me out one year.
Speaker 1: And then then I got on and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed sort of knowing how the machine ticks and
Speaker 1: talks and works, and that it and early on it
Speaker 1: really wasn't not hard of a gig. I mean, we
Speaker 1: were a pretty well oiled machine and didn't have really
Speaker 1: any competition then and then well, and then COVID hit
Speaker 1: and that I was rolling off and then I technically
Speaker 1: was asked to run again and I won. So literally
Speaker 1: during COVID, we're trying to figure out how we start
Speaker 1: up again, what how do we play golf and entertain
Speaker 1: during these times?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: Obviously trying to stay very very safe. So I technically
Speaker 1: have been on the board for seven straight years. A
Speaker 1: lot of phone calls, a lot more phone calls as
Speaker 1: of late. And I mean I was this morning, I
Speaker 1: was up at who knows how what time and on
Speaker 1: a phone.
Speaker 2: Call with a tour.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's been time consuming but also fun
Speaker 1: to be a part of it, and my voice is valued
Speaker 1: on the PGA tour and trying to make the product
Speaker 1: better for everybody. But COVID was intense and no one
Speaker 1: had to playbook for COVID R. I mean, so we
Speaker 1: were making stuff up on the fly and how how
Speaker 1: can we do this? And we and I mean we
Speaker 1: were really the besides NASCAR. We were the first group
Speaker 1: of people to be back on TV, back out playing
Speaker 1: and uh and really with no stoppage to think about that, like,
Speaker 1: it's it was pretty crazy. Obviously, I thought it stunk
Speaker 1: playing during COVID back to those juices. You didn't play
Speaker 1: in front of anybody, so he never got the juices going.
Speaker 1: It was it was really really weird, uh during that time,
Speaker 1: but we were able to put a product out there
Speaker 1: obviously for the fans to watch, and uh, it was
Speaker 1: probably the biggest time for all of golf was COVID
Speaker 1: because people started playing again and then obviously we came
Speaker 1: back on TV. Our our views are high, people are
Speaker 1: playing golf, people are engaging in golf, and it sort
Speaker 1: of reinvented golf, to be completely honest with you, especially
Speaker 1: for the younger generation, and like, holy holy crap, I
Speaker 1: can go out on golf course and spend X amount
Speaker 1: of hours my friends. My parents won't let me play
Speaker 1: with my friends at home, but I can go out
Speaker 1: on golf course and play with the friends. And so
Speaker 1: it's COVID was great for golf. And then then we
Speaker 1: hit this other time that we're going through right now
Speaker 1: that we're sure we don't know what. I see the
Speaker 1: end of the light at the end of the tunnel,
Speaker 1: but it's been a dark eighteen months to say the least, right,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: To your point, what golf gave to so many people during.
Speaker 4: That time who were stuck inside, stuck alone, and to
Speaker 4: be able to go out safely and do something outdoors
Speaker 4: was so important.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and it's sort of it gave everybody.
Speaker 1: I think the respect I've always loved about golf is
Speaker 1: you were able instead of a lunch meeting and whatever,
Speaker 1: you go play golf with your buddies and everybody. What
Speaker 1: I love about the game of golf, you know, to
Speaker 1: interact with people for four and a half hours and
Speaker 1: play with them and be outside and then and enjoy
Speaker 1: someone's company without in close proximity and kept everybody safe,
Speaker 1: which which was amazing.
Speaker 4: You're a board member of the PGA Tour. You talk
Speaker 4: about the dark days of the last eighteen months with
Speaker 4: the Live Tour starting Live good for golf or bad
Speaker 4: for golf?
Speaker 1: I think competition in anything makes the game in your
Speaker 1: product better. So few were to say that it has
Speaker 1: to make make whoever comes out on top is going
Speaker 1: to be stronger because of it.
Speaker 4: Do you see a way that any of and let's
Speaker 4: just talk about the sort of the bold adjustments that
Speaker 4: Live did too, specifically would be the team based format
Speaker 4: and the second would be three rounds, no cuts. Do
Speaker 4: you think that there is any scenario that that makes
Speaker 4: its way onto the PGA.
Speaker 2: Tour Three rounds no cut.
Speaker 1: I don't see making it on the PGA Tour. I
Speaker 1: think the PGA Tour will try to implement if some
Speaker 1: sort of deal gets done. Even if a deal doesn't
Speaker 1: get done, maybe try to try to integrate some team golf.
Speaker 2: But it's hard.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've run the models, we've runs. It's very
Speaker 1: very hard to implement because golf is such a traditional
Speaker 1: game and traditionally it's you against the golf course and
Speaker 1: people have liked our product hasn't been bad, people have
Speaker 1: always watched it. No, I think it'd be hard to implement,
Speaker 1: but I think there could be a spot for it.
Speaker 1: But I a full schedule, a full tour around the
Speaker 1: team Golf I don't think lives on.
Speaker 2: But that's well. See are you in support of the merger.
Speaker 1: I think anything to bring the golf world sort of
Speaker 1: back together would be a good thing, So I guess
Speaker 1: I could expand into that with I really do think
Speaker 1: the piff and and Yaser want the best for the
Speaker 1: game of golf. And obviously there's some political issues we
Speaker 1: got to get through, and everybody's got to get through.
Speaker 1: But I think if you can grow the game of
Speaker 1: golf in Saudi Arabia or the Middle East to mainstream
Speaker 1: for them, I think it's better for the game of golf.
Speaker 1: If you can grow your global brand globally, then it's
Speaker 1: got to be good for the game of golf.
Speaker 2: You get more people playing the game of golf is good.
Speaker 2: It's great for everybody.
Speaker 1: So with that analogy, I think I think something does
Speaker 1: get done.
Speaker 2: I'm hopeful something gets done, but it's it's far from
Speaker 2: even far from done, that's for sure.
Speaker 4: Really, So so the idea that there is that the
Speaker 4: merger has been agreed to, there's still a lot of steps.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a ton of steps.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think both both sides got to come
Speaker 1: off their high horse a little bit and go, all right,
Speaker 1: what's what's what's really the end game here?
Speaker 2: What are we trying to do?
Speaker 1: And I think I think that's what they're all trying
Speaker 1: to figure out now and lots more people in that room,
Speaker 1: and then they're hopefully persenting something to us in the
Speaker 1: near future so we can so we can end it
Speaker 1: or go on. I mean, I think it's everybody's sort
Speaker 1: of tired of live versus the PGA tour. Larry, Let's
Speaker 1: see where we end up here and hopefully figure it out.
Speaker 1: In my mind, my mind's not made up on that's
Speaker 1: going to be the deal yet, since I'll probably be
Speaker 1: a vote.
Speaker 2: In all that decisions.
Speaker 1: And uh, but from ten thousand feet right now, I
Speaker 1: think it'd probably best for the game of golf if
Speaker 1: something does get done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a weird.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have I'll love to tell you It's
Speaker 4: just such a complicated thing, right because as you mentioned
Speaker 4: the political ramifications. You know, as a fan, you just
Speaker 4: get aggravated because, as you said, it's an individual game
Speaker 4: and you want all of the best individuals competing against
Speaker 4: each other.
Speaker 1: Could you integrate an individual aspect and a team aspect
Speaker 1: sort of like what the list trying to do.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, I'm just I'm just asking a question.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they can.
Speaker 1: I don't know even if the fans want to engage
Speaker 1: in that. We talked about content. Could you have a
Speaker 1: team event back to on the first three days. Say
Speaker 1: you're there six days. First three days have some sort
Speaker 1: of team event. In the last three days you have
Speaker 1: an individual event. I don't Can you integrate that? I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know those answers. It
Speaker 1: sounds very complex on it will say our content has
Speaker 1: been really good for a lot of years. Why are
Speaker 1: we going to try to screw with it?
Speaker 4: Is?
Speaker 1: If I step back and look at it, I think
Speaker 1: traditional stroke play golf has worked. Even match play match
Speaker 1: play golf works great, and team team events and Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup and Presidence Cup, but traditionally in the viewership in a
Speaker 1: match play event on the PGA Tour ward golf, and
Speaker 1: it isn't really any good because you can't forecast who's
Speaker 1: going to be in that last game or last match
Speaker 1: so you can get right. So the match plays really
Speaker 1: traditionally has not worked in the game.
Speaker 4: Of golf, right, but you but people do. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's funny because that was what I was just about
Speaker 4: to say. I mean, people do get behind the President's
Speaker 4: Cup and the Ryder Cup, which is a team competition.
Speaker 1: We're playing for countries, not just I know, not the
Speaker 1: high high flyers or the aces. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: it's every roots for the countries or the international team.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to be in America.
Speaker 2: That's why.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's why it goes and and there's
Speaker 1: always a match and always means something like traditional match play.
Speaker 2: Are you like NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1: Every watched it because it's a great competition no matter who's
Speaker 1: in the final, it's always going to be great if
Speaker 1: it's an upset or or or high higher ranking teams.
Speaker 1: But it's it's just doesn't in my mind, doesn't match
Speaker 1: play doesn't work individually in golf, but from the when
Speaker 1: you're representing your country.
Speaker 2: It's it's just something different. It's always worked.
Speaker 1: It works in the Olympics, it works in in the
Speaker 1: President's Cover, works in the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, yes, if this goes, if the
Speaker 1: team golf lives on for X amount of years, will
Speaker 1: gain some traction and people will But how do you
Speaker 1: build that. I don't know, there's not it's just it's
Speaker 1: very complex.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that what's good for the game
Speaker 4: is getting the players back together, that you get that
Speaker 4: you're seeing everyone competing at.
Speaker 2: The same venue.
Speaker 1: I mean as a fan, well, we gave the golden
Speaker 1: ticket to the majors, let's be honest.
Speaker 2: Well, yes.
Speaker 1: That was I mean literally, the golden ticket has gone
Speaker 1: to every major championship. By the way, if you're not
Speaker 1: a golf fan, the PGA Tour or nobody owns the majors.
Speaker 1: Besides the Majors, the PGA of America owns the PGA Championship,
Speaker 1: the USGA owns the US Open August, the Masters own
Speaker 1: the Masters.
Speaker 2: And the RNA own the British Open.
Speaker 1: We get no TV revenue, we get no besides, as
Speaker 1: a player, we get the revenue at the purse, but
Speaker 1: we get no revenue sharing of any sort in any
Speaker 1: of those major events, the four biggest events that we
Speaker 1: put on, and then you throw the Ryder Cup in,
Speaker 1: we don't even have any part of that. We have
Speaker 1: part of the President's Cup, but our four or five
Speaker 1: biggest generating revenue sport or events we don't even get
Speaker 1: a piece of. And think about how strong we are
Speaker 1: without those, so right, I mean you talk big pictures
Speaker 1: like could you have an organization that all this falls
Speaker 1: on around one umbrella, like a FIFA or something like that. Now,
Speaker 1: now you could have something that's strong and sort of
Speaker 1: help each other out enough that I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think that's ever.
Speaker 2: Been discussed really, But it's it's back.
Speaker 1: To getting everybody together. That's that would that would get
Speaker 1: everybody together, That.
Speaker 2: Would get everybody, That would get everybody together.
Speaker 4: So you said starting the other tour, having competition makes
Speaker 4: everything stronger, makes total sense. Do you think that if
Speaker 4: a merger goes through, which it doesn't sound like you're
Speaker 4: sure that it will, but if if it happens, at
Speaker 4: some point, can guys be forgiven for leaving.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't on the on the player, so
Speaker 1: I think majority of it understood why they left.
Speaker 2: I mean the they.
Speaker 1: Cashed in and the reality you can't understand why, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can understand why they left, definitely, and forgive them.
Speaker 1: I think the tone that I've heard through the players, now,
Speaker 1: as long as we were rewarded in some way by
Speaker 1: staying right, there wouldn't be that big of an issue.
Speaker 1: So we we got something for staying, they got something
Speaker 1: for leaving, and now we're.
Speaker 2: All coming back together and everything stronger and everything's better.
Speaker 1: I mean, every everybody wants to see the best players
Speaker 1: play against each other. I mean, is a PG Tour
Speaker 1: stronger with Brooks, Koepka and DJ and Bryson playing a
Speaker 1: PJ Tour event?
Speaker 2: Of course it is, right, there's But will the PJ
Speaker 2: Tour go on without them? Of course it will. So
Speaker 2: it's funny there is that.
Speaker 4: There is an interesting thing and I'm not going to
Speaker 4: mention any names. I mean, that's the great thing about golf,
Speaker 4: right is that everybody roots for somebody different.
Speaker 2: Right, But if you're a baseball fan, there are teams
Speaker 2: that you don't like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right now, this is these are about personal feelings.
Speaker 4: But this is this is the genesis of sports. If
Speaker 4: you are a fan of the University of Georgia, you
Speaker 4: don't like Florida, Like right, there were a lot of
Speaker 4: guys who left who were considered villains like that. I mean,
Speaker 4: let's just be clear, like there were people that you
Speaker 4: did not root for, and again, you missed that. Even
Speaker 4: if you're not rooting for those guys at times, you
Speaker 4: miss that ye as a fan, but.
Speaker 2: The play the opposite idea.
Speaker 1: Probably one of the nicest guys on tour go also
Speaker 1: Cam Smith, Yeah, I mean one of our biggest Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I agree with what what you're saying that, But
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say those guys weren't missed. But our ratings
Speaker 1: haven't changed at all since that's happened.
Speaker 2: It really actually only gave more power to.
Speaker 1: The major championships because there's their venues way more intriguing.
Speaker 1: How that we're all playing together, which is great, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's great time, it's.
Speaker 4: It is and I'm I'm I'm glad to hear your
Speaker 4: support though you personally are not interested, but the support
Speaker 4: and you being on the board obviously, Matt, you know
Speaker 4: you had something to do with the fact that full
Speaker 4: swing happened, you know, being able to get to know guys,
Speaker 4: tell the story personally and tell that story. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's just great. And the drama is great and brings
Speaker 4: people in not to.
Speaker 2: Interrupt you, but interrupt you.
Speaker 1: But that's what I think is great about the PGA
Speaker 1: tour because there is downtime and we'll give Jim Nance
Speaker 1: maybe the best storyteller of all time has time to
Speaker 1: tell stories in between shots and people coming down the
Speaker 1: stretch while live.
Speaker 2: I've watched the content. I'm a fan of golf, that
Speaker 2: you don't have that time. There's so much going on.
Speaker 1: There's no now the content and there's I mean there's
Speaker 1: a ton of shots going on the same but you
Speaker 1: never have any time to tell the story. And I
Speaker 1: think what people like to do on a weekend and
Speaker 1: sort of sit there and hear about the guy. And
Speaker 1: I think something in our new format that we're going
Speaker 1: to with the signature events that we're gonna miss. And
Speaker 1: I've stressed this on board meetings and I'll say it publicly,
Speaker 1: is gonna lose that We're going to lose that storytelling
Speaker 1: of Thigala. At WM a couple of years ago, trying
Speaker 1: to beat something Brooks trying to beat somebody big coming down.
Speaker 1: You lose those storylines by only having the top fifty
Speaker 1: or seventy in the world playing against each other and
Speaker 1: then everybody's familiar with which.
Speaker 2: I think that's what the PGA Tour is all about.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how this is going to go.
Speaker 1: I've said this this morning to people, I've said it
Speaker 1: in the past. I don't think we got our product
Speaker 1: quite right yet. The new formula, well, we'll get it right,
Speaker 1: I promise you that. But what we're going to put
Speaker 1: in front of you is is going to be a
Speaker 1: good try. But I think we're going to miss some
Speaker 1: of that storytelling that has made the PJ Tour so special.
Speaker 2: That story part is very, very valuable to the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a foundation, weird the name is the
Speaker 4: Charlie Hoffin Foundation original, but I know you do a
Speaker 4: ton for kids, not just in San Diego but also
Speaker 4: Las Vegas as well. Tell me about why you started
Speaker 4: that and what you guys, what you guys have done
Speaker 4: to keep.
Speaker 2: It somewhat short.
Speaker 1: Back when early years on tour, Craig Staller used to
Speaker 1: do an event for Sandegor Junior Golf here in town.
Speaker 2: He used to raise a.
Speaker 1: Bunch of money for Sandy Juno Golf with with an
Speaker 1: event the week of the Farmer's Centational back then bo Convitational,
Speaker 1: and he'd moved on and they weren't having it anymore.
Speaker 1: And it was my first or second year on tour,
Speaker 1: and they approached me and I'm like, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to keep.
Speaker 2: My job out here.
Speaker 1: You want me to raise money for Sandy or GENI
Speaker 1: I thought it was an honor, but I'm like, how
Speaker 1: long can I keep this running? You got a previous
Speaker 1: Masters champion running the event or putting lending his time
Speaker 1: and effort to the event, and you've got a rookie
Speaker 1: on tour that really has hadn't had a ton of
Speaker 1: success in any any time.
Speaker 2: But we did the event.
Speaker 1: It was successful, and then we sat back at my
Speaker 1: wife and I sat back and go, well, how can
Speaker 1: we do this?
Speaker 2: Make this better? Let's not just focus on San Diego
Speaker 2: and June Golf. Let's get something.
Speaker 1: Not that I not indebted to San Diego Jingolten who
Speaker 1: became and who made me, but let's make a real difference.
Speaker 1: Let's come up with something that we truly do believe in,
Speaker 1: and someone gave us the direction of you've got to
Speaker 1: be focused in your in your charity effort or you
Speaker 1: sort of get lost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So our.
Speaker 1: Mission statement is children's charities, which is still fairly vague
Speaker 1: but at least somewhat focused. So Strigal falls under that.
Speaker 1: Then pro Kids Golf here in San Diego, which is
Speaker 1: heavily supported.
Speaker 2: Uh, we're sort of forced.
Speaker 1: First Tea was framed after and very obviously supported by
Speaker 1: the PGA tour. And then cissy fibrosis is the one
Speaker 1: that's near and dear our heart. My brother's wife lost
Speaker 1: two sisters of sissifibrosis, So it's I can go on
Speaker 1: and on about sis fibrosis, but it's it's one that's
Speaker 1: close to us. Since we started X amount of years ago,
Speaker 1: we have seen the average age of a child i'd
Speaker 1: say from a teenage or the late teens with life
Speaker 1: expects me to people in their forties now, depending on
Speaker 1: what strand you have, what drugs you can have. But
Speaker 1: it's really changed. It's not widely supported by the government.
Speaker 1: That's why individual funding sort of hopefully get rid of
Speaker 1: this cisfibrosis. But it's something that we do truly believe,
Speaker 1: and so that's how it started here in San Diego.
Speaker 1: Then I was living in Las Vegas, went to school there,
Speaker 1: obviously spent twenty years of my time there. So we
Speaker 1: started doing an event in San Diego or so sorry
Speaker 1: Las Vegas with coinciding with the SPINERSH Hospital open.
Speaker 2: Very very gratifying.
Speaker 1: As I say, I always grew up dreaming of playing
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour, dreaming of being one of the
Speaker 1: best golfers are play. But I never dreamed, and I
Speaker 1: still pinched myself again my chills every time I talk
Speaker 1: about is. I never dreamed I'd be able to give
Speaker 1: back and raise money for people that are less fortunate
Speaker 1: than me.
Speaker 2: And it's really I mean, golf is sort of why I'm.
Speaker 1: Known, but hopefully my legacy is what I've done and
Speaker 1: given back to communities in which I've lived in and
Speaker 1: helped other people that are less fortunate than I am.
Speaker 4: Well in that right there is is why you're a
Speaker 4: great guy.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 4: That's really what it's all about. I wish you all
Speaker 4: the best. I know it's a it's a difficult job.
Speaker 4: I mean, thank god that someone is willing to do it,
Speaker 4: being on the board of the PGA Tour during this time,
Speaker 4: but I think they're lucky to have a leader like
Speaker 4: you to help get us through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all here. We're trying to Obviously.
Speaker 1: I consider myself a very an entertainer, and we all
Speaker 1: want the best entertainers to be together performing in the
Speaker 1: same spot. And hopefully we end up in that position.
Speaker 1: But if it's not the best thing for our product,
Speaker 1: we're not going to end up there. And hopefully we
Speaker 1: get to that point for the players and everybody else
Speaker 1: that loves the game of golf and loves watching us
Speaker 1: entertain And I'm optimistic that we get to that point
Speaker 1: and we put the best product forward and everybody's PGA
Speaker 1: Tour fans for life.
Speaker 2: I love it. Charlie. I'll see you Friday, all right.
Speaker 4: We'll be money cash cash money, nice time. Yep, Charlie,
Speaker 4: you can gearron Tea. I'm gonna take all that money
Speaker 4: on Friday. You give me enough strokes. I should thank you,
Speaker 4: buddy for coming on and for sharing your insights and
Speaker 4: for being so candid. I appreciate that. Listeners thank you
Speaker 4: as well. I hope you've been enjoying this string of
Speaker 4: athletes on the show because next week we have got
Speaker 4: yet another big name in the world of sports. Come
Speaker 4: back to find out who, But until next time, have
Speaker 4: a really good week. Off the Beat is hosted and
Speaker 4: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
Speaker 4: lingg Lee. Our senior producer is d Diego Tapia. Our
Speaker 4: producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our
Speaker 4: talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Speaker 4: Ali Amir Sachem. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 4: by the one and only Creed Brad