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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, She.

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Speaker 2: Does an email at trust Me pod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust Me, I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 3: never lied to you.

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Speaker 4: If you think that.

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Speaker 5: One person has all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 1: The podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the abuse of

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Speaker 1: power from two influencers who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 5: I am Lola Blanc.

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Speaker 4: Why are you laughing? Le La Blanc? We are influencers.

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Speaker 2: I'm Megan Elizabeth, but you already know that I've influenced it.

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Speaker 5: Are we influencing? Do you guys feel influenced?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I'd like to think so not really listen, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Today our guest is Jordan Harbinger, the very popular podcaster

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Speaker 1: and our podcast one brother. Today we'll have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the difference between influence and manipulation, what he thinks

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Speaker 1: makes people susceptible to scams, and how he himself has

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Speaker 1: been scammed.

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Speaker 2: We'll also talk about the lav attraction finally, and magical thinking,

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Speaker 2: how to protect yourself from scams and Jordan's take on

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Speaker 2: how to ethically be a leader.

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Speaker 1: It's a really fun, like snappy convos. Clearly a professional.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, he's a good podcast. Yeah he is.

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Speaker 1: He is. But you guys, I can't wait to tell

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Speaker 1: you well, actually, first first piece of good news my

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Speaker 1: film is funded.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm so excited. That's so unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: I know a few of you donated and have not

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Speaker 1: responded to my messages telling me what you want me

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Speaker 1: to say, So I'm gonna shout you out.

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Speaker 5: You just gotta respond, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Also, starting next week, you guys, So May is Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Awareness Month, and in light of that, we are

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Speaker 1: doing a series on rethinking trauma. So every week in May,

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Speaker 1: and I know we haven't done like a proper cold

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Speaker 1: story in a minute, but just bear with us here

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Speaker 1: because it's gonna be super fucking interesting.

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Speaker 5: Every week in May, we're gonna have a.

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Speaker 1: Different expert on psychologists and whatnot about how we can

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Speaker 1: think of trauma differently, how we can sort of free

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Speaker 1: ourselves from this idea that it's going to run our

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Speaker 1: lives if we have trauma in our past or if

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Speaker 1: we experience anything difficult.

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Speaker 5: I just think it's important.

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Speaker 1: We want to expose you guys to some new ways

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Speaker 1: of thinking and some different things that can help us

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Speaker 1: to heal. And yeah, we have some really amazing people,

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Speaker 1: so I just wanted to let you know in advance.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty excited about it.

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Speaker 2: The interview we already did was pretty life changing, just

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Speaker 2: on how I think about stuff.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, same, so fastly.

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Speaker 5: I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that's next week. So this week this week

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Speaker 1: focus on the present.

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Speaker 5: Let's be present.

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Speaker 1: Let's be present, Megan, presently speaking, what do you consider

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Speaker 1: the cultiest thing that's happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, I went and visited my family and it actually

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Speaker 2: went really well.

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Speaker 6: So hmm.

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Speaker 4: I've always warn what I want around my family.

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Speaker 2: My family dresses very conservatively, the long skirts, the buns,

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Speaker 2: all of that. But I went a little bit further

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Speaker 2: this time, and I guess how I actually like to dress.

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Speaker 5: Like you bore your middrift.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I bore a little mid drift like I would

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Speaker 2: always bear my med drift sometimes or like wear jeans.

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Speaker 6: But they wouldn't be cute.

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Speaker 2: So it was like the cute version of that, which

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Speaker 2: somehow felt so much more daring and like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but I had a really good time and nobody was mad,

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Speaker 2: and that, you know, is not to my face.

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Speaker 4: So I feel really good about it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, baby steps loving this being your truer self in

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Speaker 1: front of your family.

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Speaker 5: This is great.

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Speaker 2: I mean, everybody needs to know my true self is

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Speaker 2: a meddrift.

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Speaker 5: Honestly, yes do. They don't call it that anymore though.

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Speaker 5: It's not a middrift. That was a nineties thing. Now

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Speaker 5: it's crop tops.

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Speaker 1: Oh. It was belly shirts and like a bear middrift

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Speaker 1: in the nineties and now it's just crop tops.

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Speaker 5: Oh and your stomach right, your aps.

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Speaker 2: I'm wearing a stomach shirt today.

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Speaker 1: I'm also wearing a stomach shirt. It's not an APT shirt,

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Speaker 1: to be clear, it's stomach shirt.

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Speaker 4: What about you? What was the cultiest thing that happened

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Speaker 4: to you this week?

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Speaker 5: Okay, I just like have to.

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Speaker 1: I don't even have anything articulate to say about it

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Speaker 1: other than Elon Musk fucking terrifies me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know I've talked about him before, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that he bought Twitter, like fully owns Twitter now is

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Speaker 1: so fucking scary to me because I was and if

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Speaker 1: anyone follows me on Twitter. I was like ranting about

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Speaker 1: it today, but he said, the extreme anti body reaction

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Speaker 1: from those who fear free speech says it all. This

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Speaker 1: shit has almost a million likes. This is only four

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Speaker 1: hours ago. This scares me on numerous levels. First of all,

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Speaker 1: Twitter is not good at like making sure that Twitter

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Speaker 1: is a safe place for everyone.

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Speaker 5: It's already not good at it.

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Speaker 1: Oh and then in response to that, he said, by

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Speaker 1: free speech, I simply mean that which matches the law.

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Speaker 1: I am against censorship that goes far beyond the law.

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Speaker 1: If people want less free speech, they will ask government

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Speaker 1: to pass laws to that effect. Are going beyond the

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Speaker 1: law is contrary to the will.

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Speaker 5: Of the people.

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Speaker 1: First of all, shut the fuck up. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: my impression of what he's actually upset about is cancel

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Speaker 1: culture maybe or Trump getting banned from Twitter.

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Speaker 5: Trump repeatedly, repeatedly.

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Speaker 1: Violated the rules of Twitter, which is not a violation

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Speaker 1: of free speech. That is literally just like the rules

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Speaker 1: of the fucking website. So many times they could if

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Speaker 1: they applied the regular rules to a Trump, he would

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Speaker 1: have been banned years before when he actually was. Also,

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Speaker 1: cancel culture has nothing to do with Twitter's censorship. These

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Speaker 1: are two completely unrelated things. Like one is a cultural issue,

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Speaker 1: but if you want to stop cancel culture, you the

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Speaker 1: only way to actually do it is by censoring the

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Speaker 1: people who are canceling. Right, what Twitter has done is

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Speaker 1: very mildly barely banned racial slurs, some extremism. It's added

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Speaker 1: a little warning under misinformation that nobody heeds, by the way,

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Speaker 1: because it seems like nothing, it barely bare was addressing

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Speaker 1: any of these problems. And now Elon Musk has purchased

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Speaker 1: Twitter and is saying he's basically going to remove all

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Speaker 1: obstacles to saying whatever the fuck you want. And while

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Speaker 1: I do think that a cancel culture can be problematic

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Speaker 1: and can cause harm, and we should all be able

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Speaker 1: to engage in discourse with each other and have opinions

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Speaker 1: and not be banned for our opinions, there are certain opinions,

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Speaker 1: such as those which are dangerous and lead to extremism,

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Speaker 1: that do not belong on public platforms. I guess it

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Speaker 1: would be different if it wasn't an echo chamber where

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Speaker 1: we are all slaves to the algorithms that feed us

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Speaker 1: more and more and more of the content that we like,

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Speaker 1: leading us all to be in our own individual bubbles.

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Speaker 1: If somehow it were actually solved that we weren't all

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Speaker 1: stuck in our bubbles, which leads to extremism, which leads

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Speaker 1: to violence, then it wouldn't be as much of a concern.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is that is what Twitter is. So

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Speaker 1: if we are removing all limits on free speech, that

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Speaker 1: is going to lead to more extremism inevitably. There's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't see how it won't. And conservative Twitter right

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Speaker 1: now is like, oh, the libs are upset. The libs

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Speaker 1: are I'm like, yeah, because speech and violence are not

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Speaker 1: completely separate. Thoughts and speech lead to behaviors, and collective

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Speaker 1: behaviors create extremism. I don't know why this is so

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Speaker 1: hard to understand. The fucking richest man in the world

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Speaker 1: should not be the one determining what we can or

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Speaker 1: can't stand the Internet.

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Speaker 5: First of all, he's like fucking union busting, multi billionaire.

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Speaker 1: Tweets dick jokes all the time, like public opinion is

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Speaker 1: in the hands of this one man.

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Speaker 5: It freaks me out. That's the end of my rant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it scares me that all these male billionaires.

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Speaker 2: It scares me that Jeff Bezos own shit. It scares

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Speaker 2: me that they all are owning us. And it's not

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Speaker 2: not scary.

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Speaker 1: No billionaire should have that much influence on public opinion.

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Speaker 5: No individual person should have that much power. That's the problem.

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Speaker 1: You cannot trust individual people to make the right decision

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Speaker 1: when power is inevitably corrupting, corrupting influence. This is not

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Speaker 1: He is not gonna fucking save us. Elon Musk is

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Speaker 1: not your savior. Did he do a good thing by

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Speaker 1: creating Tesla and getting more electric vehicles on the road, Sure,

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Speaker 1: but that is that man is self interested, like everyone

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Speaker 1: else who has that much even even a fraction of

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Speaker 1: that much money.

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Speaker 2: Or like any person without any money. Just the person,

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Speaker 2: just the person, and.

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Speaker 1: The reaction to him is so worshipful that there are

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Speaker 1: so many people, millions and millions of people who are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's It's the same thing we saw with Trump.

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Speaker 5: He's fucking rich, he knows what he's talking about. He's rich.

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Speaker 5: I trust him. His level of influence is dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I think anyone having that level of influence is incredibly dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I don't care who it is, I don't care what

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Speaker 1: their political inclinations are, But especially when in particular, he

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Speaker 1: seems to be going through some shit right now and

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Speaker 1: is on a c like a pro free speech crusade,

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Speaker 1: which really isn't about free speech at all, because if

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Speaker 1: it were about free speech, he would not be fixated

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Speaker 1: on the things.

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Speaker 5: That he's fixated on.

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Speaker 1: It would be great if someone could invent Twitter where

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Speaker 1: we didn't end up in information silos and we actually

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Speaker 1: could engage in discourse with each other and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: this thing that continued to feed you the same shit

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Speaker 1: that you already see I would doin that social media platform.

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Speaker 5: I know, you guys, it took too long. I know,

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Speaker 5: I know. I'm done for now.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, well let's look to Jordan them. Let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Jordan Harbinger to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Thank you for being here.

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Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. Yeah, your podcast is so interesting.

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Speaker 1: You've had the most fucking fascinating guests on Earth, which

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Speaker 1: you know, so before we dive into talking about manipulation

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Speaker 1: and seduction and all of the things that we want

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Speaker 1: to talk to.

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Speaker 5: You about, you are a podcaster used to be a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: I'm so interested in your background in the world of

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Speaker 1: pickup I little context. I have gone on Neil Strauss's

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Speaker 1: like some of his seminars, like his Weekends with Guys

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Speaker 1: to help out years ago, and I wrote an article

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Speaker 1: about it. And this is just like a world that

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Speaker 1: I have a little bit of experience with and very

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Speaker 1: fascinated by. I read the game whatever, the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I was just like super interested it. But you kind

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Speaker 1: of were in that world and then you stepped away

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Speaker 1: from it. Can you tell us about how you got

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Speaker 1: into it in the first place?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so I got into it well before Neil

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Speaker 3: Strauss was writing about it, well at least before the

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Speaker 3: game came out. I was really interested in it. But

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Speaker 3: all the guys I'm in this will not surprise you

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Speaker 3: at all. All the guys that I met that were

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Speaker 3: also interested in it, save for a few, were just creeps.

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Speaker 3: And what there was creeps, And there was also just

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Speaker 3: guys that like, they didn't need to pick up course,

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Speaker 3: they needed a course on how to be normal in

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Speaker 3: social situations period.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I feel like, surprisingly I've run into a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who don't know what this even means. Can

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Speaker 1: you explain what a pickup artist is?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean back then, we didn't really even I

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Speaker 3: guess we did call it that, but it was just

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Speaker 3: guys learning how to It depends on your definition. For me,

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Speaker 3: it was, hey, there's a lot of things that you

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Speaker 3: do wrong with being social, whether it's with the opposite

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Speaker 3: sex or with anybody. Here's some codes that you can't

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Speaker 3: see that you can't read, that you don't know about

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Speaker 3: because you studied for your whole life, or because you're

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Speaker 3: you know, a nerd, or because you have a you're

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Speaker 3: on the autism spectrum or whatever, or you were raised

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Speaker 3: a certain way. Here's some rules that you're breaking that

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Speaker 3: if you knew the rules and you knew what was

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Speaker 3: going on, you would do better with the opposite sex.

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Speaker 3: For me, it was like, okay, this is a psychology

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Speaker 3: kind of thing, but it's not just about getting laid.

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Speaker 7: It's not just about sex.

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Speaker 3: But I will say that the majority of the guys

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Speaker 3: in this kind of community were obsessed with sex and

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Speaker 3: also were weird as hell.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I mean the term negging comes from this with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like stupid ass crap was what defined the community

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Speaker 3: of pickup and that was always kind of gross and

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Speaker 3: stupid and frankly unnecessary, Like not that, Hey, this doesn't

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Speaker 3: work at all. But it's like, when I started to

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Speaker 3: get really into this, I met all the guys at

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Speaker 3: the top, like Neil was great and we're still friends.

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Speaker 3: But when I met like Mystery, I was like, this

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Speaker 3: guy is not a successful human with a good life,

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Speaker 3: right right.

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Speaker 7: No one should be emulate this person.

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Speaker 3: He has undiagnosed or I should say diagnosed but untreated

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Speaker 3: mental illness. He's super depressed, he doesn't have real friendships

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Speaker 3: with very many people. He certainly doesn't have healthy relationships

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Speaker 3: with the opposite sex. Why do you want to emulate

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Speaker 3: this person?

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Speaker 6: I always thought Neil Stress and the Mystry were the

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Speaker 6: same person. You did, Yeah, they're not.

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Speaker 5: No, he talked about Mysteries, the one.

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Speaker 4: With the hat.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I remember I watched the show.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, Neil, yeah, feel the journalist.

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Speaker 3: I didn't feel like I could relate to those guys

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Speaker 3: at all because I was Look, I was in Michigan

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Speaker 3: when this was starting, and they were in Hollywood, so

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Speaker 3: they were like wearing light up necklaces and belt buckles

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Speaker 3: in Hollywood, and I was like, if I do that here,

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to look like an actual clown, which

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Speaker 3: they also did, by the way, for sure.

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Speaker 1: It's called peacocke guys when people wear these like extravagant

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Speaker 1: pieces to make you talk to them.

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Speaker 3: Basically, it was just kind of dumb, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't need this, Like I should work on myself

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Speaker 3: and figure this out for myself. These guys were treating

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Speaker 3: it and I'm not trying to like I have to

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Speaker 3: paint with a wide brush because we don't have five hours,

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Speaker 3: but like these guys were treating people like it was

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Speaker 3: a video game where you could do a cheat code

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Speaker 3: using the controller and you get some extra lives. And

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Speaker 3: I was like, actually, this is a vehicle for self

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Speaker 3: improvement or self actualization where I can figure out why

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Speaker 3: I'm getting insecurities triggered around certain people or why I

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Speaker 3: feel like I can't fit in certain places, and I

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Speaker 3: can build confidence using this, Whereas a lot of people

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Speaker 3: were just putting this as a bandage over their wounded

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Speaker 3: masculinity or lack thereof, and they were like, oh, no

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Speaker 3: one will figure out that I'm a quiet dork if

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Speaker 3: I pretend that I'm awesome and make up all these

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Speaker 3: bullshit stories and lies about myself. So they had these

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Speaker 3: whole routines that were like, yeah, so I was. I

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Speaker 3: was in the loaner car and the dealer didn't have

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Speaker 3: any more Ferraris, so I had to I'm driving this

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Speaker 3: regular sports car pick up my girlfriend, YadA YadA, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is one obviously a lie and only

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Speaker 3: works on like country bumpkins that are in LA for

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Speaker 3: a weekend and are like, oh my god, here's a

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Speaker 3: Ferrari for me. I'm like, this is not where I'm going.

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Speaker 3: I'm in law school, I'm getting a job on Wall Street.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna get away with this, so I'm not

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Speaker 3: even going to work with this nonsense. And so we

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Speaker 3: split off very early, and my friend and I were like,

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Speaker 3: there's a way to do this naturally where you don't

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Speaker 3: look like an idiot and you don't have to make

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Speaker 3: shit up, and if you have a vulnerability, you can

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Speaker 3: actually wear it on your sleeve and that makes you

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Speaker 3: more attractive because.

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Speaker 7: You're being real with other people, but you're not afraid

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Speaker 7: to do that.

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Speaker 3: But it's also not just new age, like you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of sensitivity training for dudes, which was like the

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Speaker 3: other end of this pickup thing. And so we fit

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Speaker 3: in this really narrow niche which they ended up calling

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Speaker 3: Natural Game, which sounds so cringe in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: That was perfect in two thousand and six, two thousand

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Speaker 3: and seven, and then the book The Game came out

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Speaker 3: and people were flooding in by like the millions to

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Speaker 3: this community and were really into.

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Speaker 7: It and couldn't get enough of it.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of guys were like, this is actually

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Speaker 3: really corny, and then they would find us because we

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Speaker 3: were like the one shop in town that was not corny.

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Speaker 3: Not that nothing we did was corny or cheesy, but

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Speaker 3: it was way more like even now in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I could still stand behind a lot this

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Speaker 3: stuff that we did in two thousand and eight, Like

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Speaker 3: some of it's a little bit like I might modify this,

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Speaker 3: but none of it was like, oh my god, we

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Speaker 3: were borderline misogynist. It was more like tweak this for

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Speaker 3: the me too era, but it wasn't misogynists, and we

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Speaker 3: weren't victimizing anyone.

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Speaker 7: We just looked a little young Broie was like the

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Speaker 7: guilty year we were.

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Speaker 3: But some of these outfits were flat out ridiculous, and

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Speaker 3: I remember telling friends like, you're gonna go to prison

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Speaker 3: or get accused of something.

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Speaker 7: You need to stop doing what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I mean I remember reading I forget the term now,

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Speaker 1: but it was like, oh, last minute resistance LMR. If

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Speaker 1: a woman is giving you last minute resistance to sex,

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Speaker 1: then you like chill out for a while and I

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Speaker 1: freeze her out and then try again.

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Speaker 5: Us like that is assault. When you're describing as assault.

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Speaker 7: It's manipulative and it's assault.

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Speaker 3: And what's funny is we used to have this rep

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Speaker 3: is like WHIMS because I was like, if you're getting

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Speaker 3: last minute resistance, you go the fuck home, yeah, dude, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And you call her the next day and you see

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Speaker 3: if she wants to go on another day. And they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: look at these WIMS. They're not closing. And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna go to prison. I'm in law school. This

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Speaker 3: is literally a felony closing.

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Speaker 4: It's a deal of them, honestly.

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Speaker 1: And even the term I remember hearing the term inner game,

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Speaker 1: which is so funny to me because that's like the

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Speaker 1: most masculine way of saying, like working on yourself.

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Speaker 5: It has to be a game.

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Speaker 3: Inner game, guys, Like it's called not just relying on

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Speaker 3: a made up story you read on the Internet, but okay.

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Speaker 1: It's trying to try to actually be a better person

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Speaker 1: instead of pretending to be a better person. So how

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Speaker 1: did your journey kind of evolve after that? Because you've

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Speaker 1: now talked to so many people on your show about

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Speaker 1: I want.

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Speaker 5: To say manipulation.

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Speaker 1: It's not manipulation, but also manipulation but likes yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: When I talk about manipulation, now I'm talking about what

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Speaker 3: people are being like multi level marketing scams and it

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Speaker 3: being done to you, not like how to do it right, you.

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Speaker 7: Know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Right, just to clarify that, you know, we were always

385
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Speaker 3: white hat and we're still white hat. Now it's more, Hey,

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Speaker 3: here's what you got to look out for when it

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Speaker 3: comes to scams and fraud and not how to do

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Speaker 3: scams in front of.

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Speaker 1: Totally totally yeah, I mean and even even actually, I

390
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Speaker 1: want to say Neil's program when I went on it,

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Speaker 1: although his book was extremely problematic, when I went to

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Speaker 1: his program, they were to people that the importance of

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Speaker 1: like being friends with women and being okay with them,

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Speaker 1: just being front like it was honestly, like much better

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Speaker 1: than some of the shit that I.

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Speaker 3: Had read in the last five years. It's a totally

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Speaker 3: different thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, but but it was pre me too,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, beget. They were talking about the

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Speaker 1: importance of like whatever, not not coercing people.

401
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Speaker 4: That's such a poem coming from men.

402
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,480
Speaker 1: No, But and a lot of those guys also, like,

403
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Speaker 1: I think that there is a perception that anyone who's

404
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: like seeking to be better with women or whatever is

405
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 1: inherently creep and a lot of them are really probably

406
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Speaker 1: on the spectrum in their twenties, had never kissed anyone

407
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Speaker 1: like sweet and like just legitimately had no social skills.

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Speaker 6: I think I had.

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Speaker 3: A lot of them were raised in super weirdo religious cults,

410
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Speaker 3: to the point of your show where they were like, oh,

411
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 3: I've literally never even been allowed to hold a woman's

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Speaker 3: hand who's not my sister, because I grew up like

413
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Speaker 3: in a weird offshoot of the Amish community, just learning

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Speaker 3: how to use a friggin smartphone.

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Speaker 4: Right right, Like there is the one right here, there is.

416
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 1: The in cell version, And obviously that is a culture

417
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,679
Speaker 1: that we have problems with. But then there's all there

418
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: are also people who genuinely need help, and it seems

419
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Speaker 1: to me that that is more the audience that you

420
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Speaker 1: were speaking to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, historically we.

422
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Speaker 3: Didn't really know what in cells were, but let me

423
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Speaker 3: tell you did.

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Speaker 7: We've come across some now.

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Speaker 3: They didn't relate to what we were saying as much

426
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Speaker 3: because remember our lead gen was a podcast, so it

427
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Speaker 3: wasn't like slick marketing. It was listening to me for

428
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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty hours. And then if you still

429
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 3: wanted to come into our workshops, it's because you were

430
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Speaker 3: picking up what I was putting down. So in Cells

431
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Speaker 3: really didn't even I would say, rarely called us because

432
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Speaker 3: it would be like, you need to be a better guy.

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Speaker 3: You needed to work on your stuff, You needed to

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Speaker 3: handle your issues and not dump your baggage off with

435
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Speaker 3: women and expect them to solve it. And to in cells,

436
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 3: that's kryptonite because they're like, what are you talking about?

437
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Speaker 3: All the problems are women's fault in my entire life

438
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Speaker 3: and universe, right, you don't know.

439
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 7: What you're talking about. So those guys hated us.

440
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Speaker 3: They hated us because we were holding up a mirror

441
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Speaker 3: and they're like, no, I want the cheat code. You

442
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,920
Speaker 3: know your bricks, and so they would never have given

443
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 3: us two cents on the debt like, there's no way

444
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,479
Speaker 3: they would come to us. But I worked with a

445
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 3: lot of guys in the industry, and I saw a

446
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 3: lot of Intel boot camps, and some of them were

447
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 3: absolutely terrifying really, so it doesn't surprise me that some

448
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 3: of those guys were violent when this stuff happened, and

449
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 3: they were like, remember the Elliott Roger thing, the guy

450
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 3: who like killed a bunch of people. As soon as

451
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,719
Speaker 3: they said he was part of the PUA community, I

452
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 3: was like, I know exactly what message boards this guy

453
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 3: is on, and this this was an inevitable result of that,

454
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 3: for sure.

455
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 5: God, that is terrifying.

456
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, excuse me, well, I mean I guess I gave

457
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 3: you indigestion.

458
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 7: That's terrifying.

459
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 2: I think the question that comes up for me right now,

460
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure if it's the next one that

461
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,719
Speaker 2: should be asked, but it is just the difference, like

462
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,439
Speaker 2: what influence is and what the difference is between that

463
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: and manipulation, because there is a big difference in how

464
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 2: you would explain that.

465
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 6: Is that something we could.

466
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, manipulation in general.

467
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: I like the idea of persuasion, Like I think there's

468
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 1: sort of an an instinctive reaction that people have to

469
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: this idea that that it's manipulation and therefore it's inherently bad.

470
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: But also all marketing is manipulation, Like what is where's

471
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 1: that line?

472
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 3: I mean, the line between manipulation and influence is really

473
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 3: hard to draw, right. So if I'm selling you a car,

474
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 3: which is something that happens from time to time, not

475
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 3: me doing it but people doing it.

476
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 5: No, you're selling me a car.

477
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 7: I'm selling you a car. That's happening.

478
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 3: What this If you come in and you say, look,

479
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 3: I want to sit dan, but I don't know, Like

480
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 3: I don't think I need leather seats. I really just

481
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 3: commute to and from my job, and I'm in a

482
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 3: part a place in my life where it's going to

483
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 3: get dinged up because I have to park out in

484
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 3: the street in the city. And then I go, all right,

485
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 3: how about this forward fusion, you know, and you go, okay,

486
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 3: I like that. But then I talk you up and

487
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 3: I get you some leather seats because I make you

488
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 3: feel like you want this more, you need it more.

489
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 3: It's easier to clean, even if it's really not. That's

490
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: more influence, right, because you still wanted a car, and

491
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 3: you still maybe there is a cost benefit, and I

492
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: might be skewing the cost benefit to give you something

493
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 3: more expensive, but you're not going to leave and go, oh,

494
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 3: oh my god, I just bought this car. I'm so

495
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 3: screwed now, and then I walk away cackling because I

496
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,160
Speaker 3: don't care about you and I'm a sociopath, right, that

497
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 3: that's more manipulation if that's the result. So, but if

498
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 3: it's if the result is you go, you know, I'm

499
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: glad I got other seats and this car is awesome,

500
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 3: but I spent a little bit more than I wanted to.

501
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 3: But you know what, it's it's fine, and you rationalize

502
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:25,959
Speaker 3: it and you're happy with your purchase at the end

503
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 3: of the day, then I would say that's more influence.

504
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 3: So the line between influence and manipulation in my mind,

505
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 3: and again maybe there's somebody who would really really sort

506
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 3: of argue against this, it almost it depends on the result.

507
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 6: So here's a question I have.

508
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: What if you're manipulating somebody for something that's really good

509
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: for them.

510
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 6: Is that bad?

511
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 7: Yeah?

512
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 3: I mean that would be influenced right by my sort

513
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 3: of ham fisted definition, that would be influenced Like if

514
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 3: I'm getting you to eat less pizza because you want

515
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: to lose weight because you have a kidney issue is

516
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,479
Speaker 3: diagnosed by a physician. Then I might be manipulating you

517
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 3: to do that by hiding the broccoli under some fat

518
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 3: free cheese. Right, But do you feel tricked to the

519
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 3: point where you're like, I just can't trust Jordan anymore?

520
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 3: Do you know what was under that cheese? Do you

521
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 3: have any There was green shit under there, and I

522
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 3: ate it well nutritious.

523
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: I would also argue, though, that a lot of cult

524
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: leaders and abusers of various sorts and conmen.

525
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, you are appealing to something that you want.

526
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 6: It's like, it's so tricky.

527
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 3: It's that's different. Something what you want is different than

528
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 3: something that's good for you. If I tell you you're

529
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 3: going to be enlightened, that is bullshit.

530
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 7: It's a lie.

531
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: I'm telling you that because I know you want it

532
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 3: and you think it's good for you. But I don't

533
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 3: have any intention of actually delivering that because I can't.

534
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 3: I'm a cult leader. I'm scamming you.

535
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: But how do we know if I'm going to influence

536
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: this person? But it's not manipulation because the thing that

537
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: I am trying to influence them is good for them?

538
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: Isn't that inherently manipulation because I'm deciding what's good for

539
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: someone else.

540
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 3: Probably, Yeah, if they know that it's good for them

541
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 3: and they've admitted as such, but they can't get there themselves,

542
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 3: Like maybe they can't keep their gym appointment, so you've

543
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: figured out how to waigh them up every morning with

544
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: an alarm that they hate, but it gets them to

545
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: go to the gym. Is that manipulation? Yeah, kind of,

546
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 3: But also it's you know, maybe you're right on that

547
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 3: line of influence and manipulation.

548
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 7: I feel like this is almost like a philosophical question. Now, yeah,

549
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 7: probably not qualified Again, well, I mean.

550
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 6: There's no black and white answers, which is the yeah part.

551
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: My friend George actually, who is the used to teach

552
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: for Neil and I would say that George was like

553
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: one of the most ethical people I'd ever met, and

554
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: this world definitely was on the more inner game side

555
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 1: of things. He described it as like we are all

556
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: influencing each other all the time. Everything that we do

557
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: is an influence, whether we like it or not, like

558
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: and it is a matter of whether we were doing

559
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: it consciously or not, which I thought was an interesting take.

560
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 5: You disagree.

561
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: I think that is whitewashing, negative and dark manipulation by

562
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 3: saying that's kind of like saying here, try this drug.

563
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 7: Well, no, that could kill me.

564
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 3: Hey, we're all getting busy done, we're all going to

565
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: the same place.

566
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 7: That's the same line of bullshit.

567
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: Maybe he didn't mean it that way, but it really

568
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 3: is the same line of bullshit. Like, yeah, everything I

569
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: do technically influences something else, if you want to take

570
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 3: it to the logical absurdity, the butterfly flapping its wings

571
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: in China, something something typhoon in Japan, right, Like that's

572
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: the butterfly effect.

573
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, but so what if we're all influencing each other?

574
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 3: Does that mean I have no responsibility to make sure

575
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: that what I'm doing influence wise is positive or doing

576
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: something good for someone else, just because while I'm accidentally

577
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: going to influence them anyway. Again, maybe he didn't mean

578
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 3: it that way, but that just seems like a total cop.

579
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, but that was like that would sort of

580
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: a philosophical argument I would hear at that point, which,

581
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: as Megan and I were talking about earlier, it's like

582
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: with our boyfriends, like we're communicating them with them in

583
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: such a way that we know they will be more

584
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: likely to receive it as opposed to like necessarily being straightforward,

585
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: which we know could alienate them because men took a

586
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: communication a lot of the time, you know. Just trying

587
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: to figure out where that line is something that I

588
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: think is really interesting, and of course none of us

589
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: have the answer. But to me, the hardest part is like,

590
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: I don't know what's right for someone else, and for

591
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: me to make that decision, I think.

592
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: Is inherently you should not make that decision. Yeah, you

593
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: should not. Just because one is influenced and one has

594
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 3: manipulation doesn't mean that they're both harmless.

595
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 6: I do know what's good for other people, so I

596
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 6: will keep doing it.

597
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: You can't, but not everyone can, and shit, you have

598
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: you on the other I gotta do it.

599
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: You've talked about so many different kinds of scams and

600
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: how to protect yourself from all these different kinds of

601
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: scams on your show. What are the different kinds of scams?

602
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 5: Do you have a particular conception of what makes people

603
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 5: susceptible to them?

604
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 3: Give me a second to think here, because there is

605
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: actually quite a bit of there's different kinds of scams, Right,

606
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 3: there's different kinds of wants.

607
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 7: The qualities I would say of people.

608
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: Who fall for scams, though, tend to fall into a

609
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: similar bucket. If you're scamming somebody, right, you promise them

610
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: something that you know that they want by eliciting those needs.

611
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: And that's what makes a good victim. And that's one

612
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 3: of the reasons that we see victims of every kind

613
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: of scam, kind of being victims of any kind of scam,

614
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: if that makes sense, right, Like the same person that

615
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: gets caught up in a multi level marketing scam and

616
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 3: thinks that it's a legitimate business, is the same person

617
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: that invests in a bitcoin robot that's going to double

618
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: their investment in.

619
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 7: A few days because they're looking for something.

620
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: They are insecure financially and probably otherwise, And so these

621
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 3: types of people always fall for scams. What's funny is

622
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: a lot of the financial scammers that you see on Instagram,

623
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: they're doing the exact same thing that the pickup artist

624
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: guys used to do back in the day, which had

625
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: nothing to do with business for the most part. Like

626
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: I remember so many guys doing photoshoots with rented ferraris

627
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,719
Speaker 3: and they were like, Yeah, I'm just gonna put these

628
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 3: in my dating profile picks or send these out to

629
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: women that I'm working on right now. Now, those same

630
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 3: guys are just posting it on Instagram and maybe they're

631
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: using it for dating, but really what they're doing is

632
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: they're like, do you want to work three hours a

633
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 3: week and drive a car like this? Insecure already might

634
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: be more at the base, like, holy crap, I'm so desperate.

635
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 7: I just lost my job. How am I going to

636
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 7: feed my family?

637
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: Insecurity is a powerful motivator like that, and probably the

638
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: most that's really interesting.

639
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: I feel like the victims of cults, it's often they're

640
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: in a vulnerable moment to their lives. It tends to

641
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: be very emotionally rooted, seeking comfort, seeking, safety, seeking community whatever.

642
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: It seems like we're kind of talking about mostly financial

643
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: type of scams, right.

644
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: Cult leaders they almost always want money and power, and

645
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: they do that through like sexual abuse and financial abuse.

646
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: They all devolve into ostentatious displays of almost all of them,

647
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: also from the leader, from the leader, from the leader. Yeah,

648
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: from the leaders, like remember what was it? It's O

649
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 3: show who people love, but was actually just a scammy

650
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: pos cult leader like everyone, like all the rest of them,

651
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 3: Wild Wild Country.

652
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 7: You saw that right on that Flix.

653
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 3: And he had like an airplane and sixteen rolls rices

654
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: and they would brag about how many roles rices this

655
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 3: guy had on national talk shows, which I believe the

656
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: adherents were not really allowed to watch, but some did

657
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: and they just thought, well, he deserves it. And it's like, no,

658
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense. You're living, You're giving your

659
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: salary to this guy and he's using it to buy

660
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 3: his sixteenth rolls Royce.

661
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 7: It just doesn't even make any sense.

662
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: Well, his manipulation was like, I do this to show

663
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: that it means nothing.

664
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it makes sense, Megan, Yeah, you guys, it

665
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: does make It's really logical.

666
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

667
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: The leaders definitely become these sort of ostentatious figures who

668
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: want to.

669
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 5: Show off their wealth.

670
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: But I would say that wealth stuff doesn't typically play

671
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: a role in most of the cults we see, maybe

672
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: in some MLMs. We live in a culture that the

673
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: American dream and quotes is like the things that we

674
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: value the most in this capitalist society that we live in,

675
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: especially in America, is someone who is making a lot

676
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: of money that is what we use to ascribe a

677
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: value to people. So even if it's about wanting to

678
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: show things off, I'm like, for many of those people,

679
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: I think it's like yeah, because that's what gives you

680
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: value in this society. And so to me, that might

681
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: be somebody who is experiencing a feeling of being valued

682
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: in some way.

683
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a crazy cycle. Have you been scammed?

684
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 5: You've been scammed?

685
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: Right, who hasn't been scammed? Our producer get scammed once

686
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 3: about Harvard? Oh yeah, oh my.

687
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 7: God, this is so ridiculous. I forgot about that.

688
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: You know what, it's it's true because it's a scam,

689
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: but I was actually an unwitting part of the actual scam.

690
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: Well here's whatever examples.

691
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, any example is great.

692
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: This is glorious. Actually, this is way more interesting than

693
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: the example I was going to talk about.

694
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 7: Okay, good job.

695
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Stay.

696
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: So this guy met me as a He was a

697
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: vendor at like a you know how like when you

698
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: go to a course or something, there's like a live event.

699
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 3: There's like booths like get your web hosting from Squarespace,

700
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: and it's like here's a key chain and here's ten

701
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: percent off your first month. Well, this guy approaches me,

702
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: I'm a student at this event or like giving a testimonial.

703
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: I think at this point because I'd already finished my

704
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 3: class and my friend is running the live event and

705
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: one of the sponsors walked up and he's like, hey,

706
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 3: I would love for you to speak at my event

707
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: at Harvard Business School. And I was like, well, I'm

708
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: all ears, I would love to speak at Harvard busines

709
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: in school. It sounds like a good opportunity. And he's like, yeah,

710
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: we're doing one at Harvard Business School, We're doing one

711
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: at west Point, We're doing one at whatever. And he's

712
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: like at west Point we're going to have some astronaut

713
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: guy or whatever's going to be there, and like you

714
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: can get a photo with him, but also you should

715
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: speak there. It's going to be a great time. We'll

716
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: get a tour of West Point. I'm like this all

717
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 3: sounds like really great. This guy has all these high

718
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: profile events.

719
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 5: I get to hang out with the astronaut.

720
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, why not?

721
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: Right?

722
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: So he's like, you know, my thing is I get

723
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: people media, I get people on TV. And I was like, cool,

724
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: you know whatever, that sounds good. I don't need the

725
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: TV or the media thing. But I'll speak at your event,

726
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: no problem. He's like, you'll be my guest there. The

727
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 3: only problem is I can't pay you. I was like,

728
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: you know what, if you're going to give me a

729
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: produced video of this, I'll give a talk. I want

730
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: to see Harvard's campus and speak at the business school.

731
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: I'd love to see West Point. Like this is like

732
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: a I would never say yes to a free speaking

733
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: thing now, but five six years ago whatever?

734
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 7: Right? Why no?

735
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: So I go to Harvard Business School and I'm like,

736
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: this is strange. There's like so many people here, but

737
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 3: they're older, and I'm like, these aren't business school students.

738
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 7: I'm like, ah, the event's open in the community. Maybe.

739
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: I walk in and there's all these other sort of

740
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: like vendor booths and I'm like, this is like another

741
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: live event.

742
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 7: With sponsors, but it's Harvard Business School. I'm so confused.

743
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: And so I go in and the guy's like, so, okay,

744
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: last minute change. I know that you thought you're gonna

745
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: have a longer talk. We really there's a logistical issue.

746
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: You're going to talk for ten minutes. I was like, dude,

747
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: what a waste of time.

748
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 7: I was like, you know what, screw it. I'm on the.

749
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: East Coast already, I got a lot of stuff done,

750
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: you know whatever, Who cares? So I chop my talk

751
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: way down to ten minutes. But nobody's gonna get anything

752
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 3: useful out of ten minutes.

753
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 7: But whatever.

754
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: I'm kind of annoyed because one of the reasons I

755
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: was here is a video at Harvard Business School. Blah,

756
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: can I just push.

757
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: Put in something really quickly, which is this is what

758
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: we seeing cults all the time. The further and you

759
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: go the further, and you're like, I already, I am

760
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: on the East Coast. Okay, I'm already here.

761
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 6: I'm already.

762
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, I gave a little why not give

763
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 5: a little more?

764
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 7: Yeah?

765
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: Also, how rude am I if I'm like, I want

766
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: my forty minute time slot on my produced video that

767
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: I'm not paying for, or I'm gonna what like, not

768
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 3: show up to your event. Even though you were kind

769
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: of gracious, now you're just having it. Also, you made

770
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: it sound like this is a logistical thing, not like

771
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: I duped you into coming here and you were never

772
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: going to have more than ten minutes, and that was

773
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: the plan from the jump, right, So this was like, Okay, look,

774
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to screw up your whole event. I

775
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: run events. I would logistics suck. Sure if you need

776
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: me for ten minutes, Like it's not ideal for me,

777
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: but oh well, I'm not I'm not a diva.

778
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 7: I'm just gonna deal with it.

779
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: So I go up and I talk, and I'm like, oh,

780
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 3: that was kind of whatever, you know, waste of time,

781
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 3: but if people enjoyed it.

782
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 7: People enjoyed it.

783
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: And I go out and this guy is like. This

784
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: guy's like, oh, I loved your talk. I'm like, okay, cool,

785
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: you know what are you doing here? Are you a

786
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: student at Harvard? I'm just like small talk. He's like, no, no,

787
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: I'm also speaking.

788
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 7: I was like, oh, what are you speaking about?

789
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: And he's like, I can't remember, but it was like

790
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: dermatology something.

791
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 7: And I was like, that's weird. What is this event?

792
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 7: You know? Like I thought this was like an event.

793
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: For leaders and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're

794
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: all speaking. And I was like, what do you mean

795
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: we're all speaking? And he proceeded to explain to me

796
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: that every single person in the audience now is actually

797
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: also speaking at the event for five minutes. Oh, And

798
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: I was like wait just a damn minute, and I

799
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: left in The announcer got the guy who was running

800
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: It was like, remember, everyone's required to be here for

801
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: the duration of the event, and I was like, one,

802
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 3: fuck that, and also I'm out. And two I'm slowly

803
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: figuring out that this is a frickin' like total sham

804
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: and that all these people paid to be in this

805
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 3: room to give their five minute talk so that they

806
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: could say they spoke at Harvard Business School, get a

807
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: T shirt, get a produced video that's a highlight reel.

808
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm out. So I walk out

809
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: the door and I'm not even kidding you. I'm three

810
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: seconds out the door in the hallway where the vendor

811
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: booths are, and some dude grabs me in a like

812
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: a hey buddy kind of lock, and he's wearing in

813
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: a Hawaiian shirt. A photographer comes out from I'm not

814
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: even kidding behind like a cardboard stand and starts taking

815
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 3: photos in video and this guy goes, I'm Jordan Harbinger's publisher.

816
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: He just wrote a best selling book. It's number one

817
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: on Amazon, and I go, hold, hold the fuck on.

818
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 3: I'm super uncomfortable right now. What is going on? And

819
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: he goes, no, what, and I'm like, I don't know you.

820
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 3: What do you mean I wrote a best selling book.

821
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 3: I don't have a book, and he goes, oh, let me,

822
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 3: let me just clarify. Sorry, you weren't on the emails.

823
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 3: Everybody's talk today is gonna be transcribed and it's been

824
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: put into a pdf on Amazon. We pre sold Amazon

825
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 3: until it got on the top of the charts. So

826
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: everyone in here is a best selling author of an

827
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: Amazon bestseller because your talk is gonna be And I

828
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 3: was like, what the ever living fuck is going on here?

829
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: I was so pissed, and I was like, I do

830
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 3: not consent to that. I was I felt weird. It's like,

831
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 3: I do not consent to this. I know nothing about this.

832
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: Y this is weird as hell. Please do not put

833
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: me in there. And I made like a scene, which

834
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 3: I felt I felt guilty about, and now I'm like,

835
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 3: I should have made a bigger, goddamn scene, right, And

836
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 3: I was so angry because it just slowly was creeping

837
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 3: in that I had been brought there to be the

838
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: headliner of this event, so that all of these schmos

839
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 3: who had paid to be there could be like, well,

840
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: Jordan Harbinger, this big like podcast guy was headlining it

841
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: and I on stage with him, and I sure enough,

842
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 3: all these people had been bragging about how they were

843
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 3: at Harvard Business School with Jordan Harbinger and a couple

844
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 3: of other people, and I was like, this is so

845
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: infuriating because none of this was brought to me as like, hey,

846
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: you're going to be doing this, and this is what

847
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 3: I'm doing. It was all just like an event where

848
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm a guest and everyone else is going to be

849
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: there and a business thing. But it was this weird

850
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 3: money maker for this guy who manufactures fake celebrities by

851
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: putting them on stage. So the astronaut guy at the

852
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: other thing, he was paid to be there. He took

853
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: selfies with people so that he could they could go,

854
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I was at West Point speaking and I

855
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 3: met General Schwartzkow or whatever. You know. It's all fake, fake, fake,

856
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: And I was so pissed off because it damages my

857
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 3: brand to be a part of any bullshit right right.

858
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Oh, there's so much shit like that in Hollywood too,

859
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: where it's just like bullshitters making you think that they're

860
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: doing something legitimate and they're not.

861
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 5: And then you're suddenly attached to.

862
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: A project as you look for about this has happened

863
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: to be kind of different but similar. It's just like,

864
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: now I have this ridiculous movie on my IMDb page

865
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: and I'm like, nobody ever look at that.

866
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 5: Please. I don't know how to remove it.

867
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: So you have said that the law of attraction is

868
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: a dangerous idea.

869
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, the fake like you manifested it comes true

870
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

871
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 5: Can you tell us your thoughts on that.

872
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we haven't really weirdly talked that much about that

873
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: on the show.

874
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 5: Megan's like, are you a lot of attraction girl?

875
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm totally a lot of attraction girl. I'm not a

876
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: secret girl. But I do think that we can.

877
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 5: I'm an anti lab attraction girl and she's a pro, and.

878
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 6: I think you're very anti as well. I have it.

879
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, can you hit us with it.

880
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: There's just no evidence at all, other than confirmation bias,

881
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: that there's anything called the law of attraction. And also

882
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: the problem with any of the studies that have supposedly

883
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: been done on this, they're all just nonsense. There's nothing

884
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 3: that holds up to any remote scrutiny. Nothing's ever been

885
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: reproduced which is what you have to be able to

886
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: do in science, real science, you have to be able

887
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: to reproduce something. Nothing is even approaching replicable when it

888
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: comes to the law of attraction. The other problem with

889
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: it is it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. So when

890
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: somebody says you manifest what's happening in the world, there's

891
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: not really been a good answer to. Oh, okay, so

892
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 3: if this is the result of your thoughts and your actions,

893
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: then what about kids in Ukraine who are dying of

894
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: thirst and starvation.

895
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's super levels of it.

896
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 2: I think that just to be clear, because I don't

897
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: want to say that people born and raped immediately attracted

898
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: that to themselves. That's insane war stuff like that. I

899
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 2: think if you're in a healthy environment you can influence things.

900
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: If it's metaphysical, then it's not really what you think

901
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: it is, and it's something else. It doesn't mean that

902
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: there's no result that looks the way that you That

903
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: doesn't mean there's no result because of something that you've done.

904
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: It's just not magic energy put out into the universe.

905
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 7: Coming back to you or whatever they like. Nonsense is

906
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 7: in the secret.

907
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: There's a field of positive psychology, which is not just

908
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: positive thinking. There's actual evidence about the way that you

909
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: it's the science of thriving as a traditional psychology, which

910
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: is more of the like studying what is wrong with us,

911
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: it's more studying how to thrive. Like there's some great

912
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: evidence in terms in that field about like you know,

913
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: gratitude journal, the tetragic, the tetris.

914
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 2: Aspect, noticing if you I have a white Mini Cooper,

915
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: Now all I see is white many Coopers.

916
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 6: I see something in myself that's positive. Now suddenly it's reflected.

917
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 7: Back to me.

918
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 3: But I but yeah, I think it's I just yeah,

919
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: that's literally just your attention and confirmations, right, Like easy

920
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: scientific attraction is sexy.

921
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 5: I like it restructuring your thinking.

922
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: I that's the real reason that you believe in it

923
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 3: is because it's sexy and you like it. And also frankly,

924
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: that it's simple. And I don't mean that you're simple

925
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: for believing in it. I mean it's an attractive proposition.

926
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 3: But it's especially attractive and again I don't not including

927
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 3: you in this. It's especially attractive for people who are hopeless, desperate,

928
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: are arrogant, and want a vanity point that they can

929
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 3: point to or are insecure in some way. The magical

930
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 3: thinking is not helpful, right, Magical thinking is not helpful.

931
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 3: And so in the problem with the law of attraction

932
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: is all these things that we're talking about, confirmation bias,

933
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: positive psychology, all the things that y'all mentioned, the law

934
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: of attraction, guys and gals will dip into that and

935
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 3: they'll put like a toe or a finger in there,

936
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: and they'll go see science and then they'll go blah

937
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: blah blah, quantum energy, reflective blah, and they'll pull a

938
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 3: joke Dispenza, and it's just like, wait, you just made

939
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: up ninety eight percent of that shit, but you touched

940
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: the truth. And it's funny because we're looking at the

941
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: Russian Ukraine situation right now, and what the Kremlin loves

942
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: to do in that Russia loves to do in their

943
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: propaganda is they'll take a dollop of truth and the

944
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: rest of it is complete bullshit. But since there's a

945
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 3: dollop of truth in there, people go, well, I've seen

946
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: that with my own eyes. That must mean everything else

947
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 3: in this report is a bunch of true things, even

948
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: if it's complete fabrication. And that's what good con men

949
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 3: will do and cult leaders will do. They'll say have

950
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: you ever noticed blah blah blah, and everyone will go, oh,

951
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: I have well that' because this, this, this, and this,

952
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: and everyone goes, now it all makes sense, But this

953
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: critical thinker goes, that's not why that's happening. That's happening

954
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: for a totally different reason. You're trying to take credit

955
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 3: for a thing that people are now noticing because you

956
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: pointed it out, and you're saying you caused it. You

957
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 3: did not cause it. The reason people are noticing it

958
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: is because you are pointing it out.

959
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 7: That's all you're.

960
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: Doing, or originated that idea when it's been an idea

961
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: that's been around for literally centuries.

962
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: Exactly like all these amateur con artists that you see

963
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 3: online now it's really funny, like you'll see some of

964
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: these like crappy ass influencers and some of them are getting.

965
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 7: Rich off this.

966
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 3: They'll steal ideas from the you know, five Love languages

967
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: and they will really just go on a video and

968
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: pretend like they just made that ship up on the

969
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: flywhee start.

970
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: And in the five Miranda languages. Her name's Miranda, and

971
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: you're like.

972
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: Wait, no, like didn't you know if you stop and

973
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: notice how you're feeling, you can have a different exper like, yeah, mine,

974
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: Buddhism has known that for thousands of years.

975
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 3: Like shut literally years literally thousands of years, Like you

976
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: didn't translate that from Sanskrit and figure out how to

977
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: make it work?

978
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 7: And right, okay, somebody else has come up with this.

979
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: And also just like the way if you're born into

980
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: like kind of what you're speaking to a second ago,

981
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: if you're born into poverty, your your life outcomes are

982
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: just statistically you're more likely to be have addiction problems,

983
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: you're more likely to struggle with depression and anxiety. Like,

984
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: your life outcomes are just like statistically going to be

985
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: worse because you were born into poverty, which has nothing

986
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: to do with the way that you're thinking or the

987
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: way that you're like, you're not doing life wrong precisely, right,

988
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: I think, and I and when I see like some

989
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: of these new age influencer types peddling this kind of stuff,

990
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is really this is blaming people for

991
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: their circumstances, which we are all strictly a product of

992
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: our circumstances, like combined with our genetics, so like, I'm

993
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: gonna blame somebody because they have a poor life outcome

994
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: after all of this shit they've experience that I have

995
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: never been able Like I have never been through that myself.

996
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 3: Right, And of course their counter will be what am

997
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 3: I supposed to do?

998
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 7: I'm empowering people.

999
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: All your doing is saying that they're disempowered because of

1000
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: their life situation. I'm giving people the way to be empowered,

1001
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 3: and you guys aren't doing that, Jordan, right, You're just

1002
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: telling them that they're a product of their environment. And

1003
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 3: while they may have again a kernel of a point,

1004
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: lying to somebody about their capability or what they can

1005
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 3: and can't do is not helpful to most people. So

1006
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: what they have to do, What these people have to

1007
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 3: do is they have to pick the one person who

1008
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 3: took their course and is now successful, not necessarily as

1009
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: a result of their course, but is the exception to

1010
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: the rule, and everybody else who failed, they'll just go, well,

1011
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: that's your fault. You didn't succeed in the MLM, you

1012
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: didn't work hard. Look at this person, they've been doing

1013
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 3: it for five years and now they're driving on Mercedes

1014
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 3: and they have two homes. So everyone else will blame

1015
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 3: themselves when really, if you were to buy lottery tickets,

1016
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 3: you'd have a better chance of having a better outcome

1017
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: than the winner that person pointed to, and it would

1018
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: be the result of winning the lottery, not the result

1019
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: of spending five years trying to get a business that

1020
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: is inherently flawed work.

1021
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 6: I truly hate.

1022
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: When people are like, this is my information, and if

1023
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: it doesn't work, it's because you're doing it wrong, that's.

1024
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 5: Right, classic cult.

1025
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeahs, do you have practical tips for how to like

1026
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: protect yourself from a scam or like how to detect

1027
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: if somebody's trying to like manipulate you.

1028
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Typically. I love using MLMs as an example because

1029
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,439
Speaker 3: they're so insidious and destructive and they're everywhere. So one

1030
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: thing that MLM kryptonite is strong relationships with people that

1031
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 3: are outside the organization. In fact, cult kryptonite is strong

1032
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: relationship with anybody who's outside the organization. And that's one

1033
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 3: of the reasons that cults try to alienate people from

1034
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 3: their relationships right like from the jump, because those relationships

1035
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: are what keep people sane. You know, if you are

1036
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: selling hair chemicals that are crappy and overpriced, There's a

1037
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: reason Facebook groups say get rid of all the haters

1038
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 3: in your life, the people who tell you can't do it.

1039
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: You might have to take a break from those people. Yeah,

1040
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 3: because if your mother, sister, best friend from school, and

1041
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: all of your colleagues at work are telling you that

1042
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 3: what you're doing sounds kind of like a bullshit scam

1043
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 3: that their friend's friend's friend was involved in lost a

1044
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 3: bunch of money, that is going to weigh on you,

1045
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: right if you are a smart person who listens to

1046
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: their relationships, so they try and get you to they

1047
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: will try and preempt those objections. So if you are thinking, huh,

1048
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 3: is this really too good to be true? Or should

1049
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: I join this? What should I do? Bounce it off

1050
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 3: your friends, maybe even bring some of your friends to

1051
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: any events that you are doing that are not recruiting events.

1052
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: The problem with MLMs is everything is a recruiting event, right,

1053
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 3: But like I when I.

1054
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 7: Go to these self.

1055
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: I used to go to a lot of these self,

1056
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: helped culty seminars to investigate them, and I would always

1057
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 3: call my wife at the end of the night because

1058
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 3: she would reel me and I'd be like, yeah, they

1059
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 3: made a lot of good points about this. You know,

1060
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: this other thing was really manipulative, but they you know,

1061
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 3: to be fair, they had good points about this, and

1062
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 3: she's like, Okay, this doesn't sound super good, like what

1063
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: about this other thing? What about this other thing? And

1064
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: they whild She would ask questions and I go, yeah,

1065
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: I know, you're right. There was a lot I didn't

1066
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: think about that also being manipulative.

1067
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 7: That's good. I'm gonna write that down.

1068
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: And so there's a lot of like when someone's looking

1069
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 3: from an outside perspective, or they might go, you're really

1070
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 3: excited about this for somebody who's spent three days staying

1071
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: up till one o'clock in the morning, you know, why

1072
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 3: are you so excited? And you go, you know, I

1073
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: think I'm just really exhausted. And also they make us

1074
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: dance around a lot, and it's like okay. And then

1075
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: after I went to a few of these, it was like, yep,

1076
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: they're making us dance because we're all tired. Okay, this

1077
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 3: is getting us psyched up again. Oh, they're making a

1078
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 3: promise of a future result based on you know, financial stuff,

1079
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: and I remember.

1080
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 5: Landmark.

1081
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, Landmark, it's like project in the future. When you

1082
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 3: have that second home and you are able to tell

1083
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: your boss, fuck you, man, I don't need to work

1084
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: here anymore. And everyone's like, yeah, I can't wait to

1085
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 3: tell my boss and my ex husband that fuck. You know,

1086
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: fuck those guys. And I'm just sitting around. I'm looking

1087
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: around the room, and as a person who is not

1088
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: necessarily that vain, as evidenced by what I'm wearing right now,

1089
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 3: is not that insecuritymore being married and having kids and

1090
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: stuff like, I look around the room and I see

1091
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: these people and I'm like, holy shit, these people came

1092
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 3: here thirsty and they are drinking from a fire hose

1093
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 3: of bullshit right now. And some of the stuff in

1094
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 3: Hollywood was the worst because I'd go, wow, they're really

1095
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: sort of saying like, imagine when you're famous and you're

1096
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: on stage and dah dah dah, and I red get

1097
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: any small groups and I go, okay, okay, just out

1098
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: of curiosity, how many of you are actors, singers, performers

1099
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: of some kind, And like the entire room would raise

1100
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: their hands as I did these sort of questions, and

1101
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, Aha, this is Taylor made. I bet if

1102
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 3: I went to one of these in another state, like

1103
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 3: if I went to one in New York. They'd be like,

1104
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 3: how many of you are businessmen and working in finance,

1105
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: and everything would go up, and their example would be like,

1106
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: imagine when you're a managing director at your bank, Like

1107
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: they're going to tailor the example in the future projection

1108
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: to match the audience in the room. And I saw

1109
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 3: some extremely manipulative stuff like that. So also agreeing with

1110
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: yourself to not sign up for the next thing right away,

1111
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 3: even if it sounds like a really good deal, because

1112
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: all of these places rely on you being excited in

1113
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 3: the moment and at the end. And so they'll say,

1114
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 3: if you sign up for next weekend's workshop right now,

1115
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: we will give it to you for fifty percent off,

1116
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 3: But the second you walk out that door, the price

1117
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 3: goes up.

1118
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 7: Oh my god, I really.

1119
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: Want to do it, but I don't know if I

1120
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 3: could do it next weekend because I have to task

1121
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: off work again. But it's fifty percent off just when

1122
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: you already go, I know I'm going to pay more

1123
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: for it if I do it again. But I agreed

1124
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: and promised myself I wouldn't do it. If you stick

1125
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 3: with that one, you'll find out that that fifty percent

1126
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 3: off deal literally is all the fucking time, because they'll

1127
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 3: take anybody with a pulse two. You won't give a

1128
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 3: shit about it in forty eight hours or in a

1129
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: week because you won't be excited anymore, because you won't

1130
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 3: have to dance to a Navichi track at four o'clock

1131
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 3: in the morning because they're running late again.

1132
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 4: Because we are about to walk over hot coals again.

1133
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, which is what I did at Tony Ryans, right exactly.

1134
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really good point.

1135
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: So they put you in a heightened state, heightened emotional state.

1136
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: You should no one should be making decisions, financial decisions

1137
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: or other large life decisi And when you are still

1138
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,439
Speaker 1: in this heightened state, right like, you take a beat,

1139
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: you go home, you talk to people, you let your

1140
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: mood settle down, and then you can decide and evaluate.

1141
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: We back at my old company, when I used to

1142
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 3: run the boot camps, we had a rule where at

1143
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 3: the end we would not upsell another program unless somebody

1144
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: came to us privately, and we even said we're not

1145
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: going to upsell you, and people.

1146
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 7: Were shocked when we didn't do it.

1147
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 3: They were shocked and we didn't try to sell them something,

1148
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: and they would go the au. One of the reasons

1149
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: was because everybody knows about what you call the post

1150
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 3: boot camp or post workshop high, and so we knew

1151
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 3: that people were expecting it, and it just seemed really

1152
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: shitty to do that because you build up all this

1153
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: good will throughout the week and then to be like, yep,

1154
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 3: we're just like everyone else, drops everywhere. And we thought,

1155
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 3: you know, if we really crushed it, they're gonna have

1156
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 3: results for the next year, they'll come back to us

1157
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 3: and be like, Okay, I want the advanced thing, and

1158
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 3: a lot, a lot, a lot of people did. They

1159
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 3: came back, and then we felt like we earned that

1160
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 3: because they were getting results out of everything. You know,

1161
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: we didn't just like trick them while they were super

1162
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: stoked running around Hollywood Boulevard like, hey, design this thing

1163
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 3: now that you've had three shots and we'll see you

1164
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 3: in two wins.

1165
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 6: And that's not a win. I don't understand.

1166
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: It's so unless you are a scam artist, right, if

1167
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: you're saying you don't give a shit about them, right,

1168
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 3: victimizing people, if you are not running a business.

1169
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: If you have time to answer one more question, yeah,

1170
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: I would love to know, Like for someone like you

1171
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: who has spent some time in your life and work,

1172
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, helping advise people and stuff like what is

1173
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: the ethical way to go about being a leader, and

1174
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: how do you prevent it from becoming Sure.

1175
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 3: Look, I think if you over deliver on things that

1176
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 3: you promise, you're going to have a miles long line

1177
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: of word about referrals. So like you can buy advertise.

1178
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 3: I buy a lot of ads for the Jordan Harbinger

1179
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 3: show my podcast, right, I.

1180
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 7: Buy a ton.

1181
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: But the reason people stick around is because the content

1182
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: is in theory, it's good, right, and that's why I've

1183
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 3: been doing a podcast for fifteen plus years. But if

1184
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: the podcast is bad and you market a bunch, you're

1185
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: just kind of wasting your money because people are It's

1186
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 3: like a bucket with holes in it. You care it

1187
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: full of water, it's just going to drip out by

1188
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: the time you get back to your destination. So you

1189
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 3: have to have something that's not leaky, right. You have

1190
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: to have something that is going to keep people invested.

1191
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 3: And the way that you do that is by earning

1192
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 3: their trust. And so short term, it's better to scam

1193
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 3: people and get the money as fast as you can

1194
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: and screw them and fuck you, I got mine. In

1195
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: long term, even if you are a self interested don't

1196
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 3: give a crap about anyone else business Titan, It's still

1197
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 3: better long term to have a sterling reputation as somebody

1198
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 3: that's trustworthy and does the right thing, because that will

1199
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: generate referrals in word of mouth and trust and people

1200
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 3: who trust you do business with you for a long

1201
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 3: period of time, whether that in my case means buying

1202
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: a mattress that I recommend on the podcast, or whether

1203
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 3: it means trusting me enough to listen to the show

1204
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: and you know, give me the ad impressions and then

1205
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: refer the show to their friends.

1206
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 7: That Jordan Harbinger show spreads a lot by word of mouth.

1207
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: So it's better to do that. The problem is it

1208
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: takes longer. So if you are impatient and you want

1209
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 3: money now because you were entitled, then you can wait.

1210
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: You can wait for the results, and that is what

1211
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: long term success is. So for me, I don't really

1212
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: have to worry about that. I'm not super motivated by money.

1213
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: I never really cared about being wealthy, and it's not

1214
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: that I don't care at all.

1215
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 7: But there's such a thing as enough is enough.

1216
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: And I also have to sleep at night and I

1217
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 3: have to look at my kids in the morning when

1218
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 3: they wake up and be like deadier in this money

1219
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 3: and scam it out of people.

1220
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 7: And so there's a lot to be said for integrity.

1221
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 3: But integrity and doing the right things still makes sense

1222
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: long term in a business if you plan to be

1223
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 3: in business for a long time, because your currency is

1224
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 3: trust at that point. And what's that phrase like it

1225
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 3: takes a lifetime to build a reputation and moments to

1226
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: destroy it or something like that, right, And that's really true,

1227
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 3: and you can't buy your way into a positive reputation, really,

1228
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 3: so you have to do that stuff. And sometimes that

1229
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 3: means turning down easy money. Like I don't, to give

1230
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 3: a simple example, I don't recommend gambling stuff in apps

1231
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 3: on the Jordan Harbinger Show. I don't sell supplements that

1232
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: are probably bullshit that I can't get good information on,

1233
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: or stuff that I don't use. I won't endorse a

1234
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 3: piece of furniture that I don't have because and they'll go, oh,

1235
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: we can't get it to you in time, Can you

1236
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 3: just endorse it? No, I cannot do that. I haven't

1237
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: sat on this thing. I'm not gonna say it's comfortable,

1238
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: and you know you will lose money from doing that occasionally,

1239
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: but I think it's worth it because at the end

1240
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: of the day, you can look at yourself in the mirror,

1241
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: you can look at your kids in the face, you

1242
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: can tell your listeners you care about them and you're

1243
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 3: not lying. And you know, maybe if I was a sociopath,

1244
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 3: I wouldn't care about any of that stuff. But if

1245
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: you're a normal person, it's bad for you to do

1246
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: that to yourself and to other people, and it's bad

1247
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 3: for your health, it's bad for the.

1248
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 7: Way that you exist in the world.

1249
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: To put it sort of in a woo woo philosophical way,

1250
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 3: you won't like who you are, and if you don't

1251
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 3: like who you are, you're going to be a miserable,

1252
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 3: miserable human being. And so that trade off wasn't worth

1253
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 3: it for me. And I think most people come to

1254
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: that conclusion, I hope, so yeah, yeah, but some don't,

1255
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 3: and they end up on your shows this case studies

1256
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 3: right of scams and culture.

1257
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, do you have any last words

1258
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: for us?

1259
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 5: Last words of wisdom?

1260
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? I would say, look, if somebody you know is

1261
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 3: being scammed. You're not going to catch them on an

1262
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 3: upswing when they're super excited about their new MLM self

1263
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: help cult that they joined.

1264
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 7: You're not going to get them. You have to wait

1265
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 7: for the downswing.

1266
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 3: You catch them on a downswing, and then when you

1267
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: find like, hey, this isn't really where you know, you

1268
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 3: can ask questions and the cracks will start to show.

1269
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 3: And then the best approach is to tell those people

1270
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 3: not the particulars of the scam and why it's a

1271
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 3: bunch of nonsense, but focus on the larger effect that

1272
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 3: it's having on that person, right, Like, how has it

1273
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 3: helped you?

1274
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 7: How is it maybe have you achieved with this group?

1275
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 7: Has promised you?

1276
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 3: Are other people in the group benefiting or not benefiting

1277
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 3: in the same way? Is the organization explaining everything clearly

1278
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: to you? Does the organization encourage questions and criticism? Are

1279
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 3: you objectively better off than you were before you joined?

1280
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 3: You know, like things like that, also showing the impact

1281
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 3: of the scam on your relationship with them, because if

1282
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 3: I say, hey, look, herbal life doesn't work. Here's a

1283
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 3: report showing that ninety nine point six percent of people

1284
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 3: involved in MLMs lose money. They're gonna go whatever, dude,

1285
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 3: they're gonna argue with you. Well, Mike Upline said, that's

1286
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: not true. It's fake news. If you say this is

1287
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 3: negatively affecting our relationship, they can't argue with that because

1288
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: you are the ultimate arbiter of whether or not that

1289
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: relationship is positive. So they can't sit there and go, no,

1290
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: we're still good friends. You're fucking wrong. Like you can

1291
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: tell them, hey, you've been kind of alienated from me

1292
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: and the rest of the family. And the reason is

1293
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 3: because you're always gone working on this thing. And I

1294
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 3: know you say it's a business, but and then you

1295
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 3: go back to what we talked about.

1296
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 7: Before with criticism, and is this meeting your needs?

1297
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: Because even if something is really good for you, even

1298
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 3: if you're working out all the time and you became

1299
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 3: a successful business owner, if your spouse, friend, brother, whatever,

1300
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 3: kids come to you and say this is negatively affecting

1301
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 3: our relationship, it could be the best thing you're involved in,

1302
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: it still makes sense for you to then reevaluate what

1303
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 3: you're doing with that business or that event, because you're

1304
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: screwing with your family life. So it's really hard for

1305
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 3: people to argue with the relationship angle. So catch them

1306
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 3: on a downswing, ask the right questions, and focus on

1307
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 3: the effect it's having on the relationship, and then, last,

1308
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: but not least, support the person. You know, now is

1309
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 3: not the time to go. I've fucking told you it

1310
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 3: is a scam, you idiot. When they're like, can't pay

1311
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 3: their rent and they're living on your couch, what you

1312
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: do is support them and don't antagonize them further, because

1313
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 3: one of the reasons these people get sucked into that

1314
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 3: is because of desperation insecurity.

1315
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about this a lot, but like

1316
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: attacking someone with facts.

1317
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 5: Just isn't an effective to all.

1318
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not.

1319
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: But having people assess how they feel and whether it's

1320
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: actually and how you increasing their life.

1321
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, and relation to them really are smarting.

1322
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 3: Yep.

1323
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 7: I love that. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome, thank you.

1324
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: I love trying to help people avoid scams, because this

1325
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 3: is one of those like super high return activities. Right.

1326
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 3: We talk to a few thousand people or twenty whatever

1327
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 3: thousand people and they go, huh, I was going to

1328
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 3: get into this MLM thing because my friend that likes

1329
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 3: it and I really haven't heard much about it. And

1330
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 3: now I'm gonna think this is what critical thinking is.

1331
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 7: Right.

1332
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: They might not be totally convinced by us, but they

1333
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 3: know enough to go. Maybe I'll google Jordan Harbinger scam

1334
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 3: MLM and find if there's an article or a show,

1335
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 3: which we have of course on the website that outlines

1336
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 3: everything I just talked about, but in way, way more detail.

1337
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 3: And they'll listen to more of your podcasts about this,

1338
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 3: and they'll then they might go, you know, I trust

1339
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 3: my friend, but I also these people know what they're

1340
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 3: talking about too. I wonder if my friend is a

1341
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 3: victim of a scam and then we just saved them

1342
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 3: from spending their life savings on frickin protein shakes.

1343
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: By the way, I love your the way your website

1344
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: is structured, and the fact that you have starter packs

1345
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: for all of these different topics in your that is

1346
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 1: so smart and we might thank you.

1347
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, copy it, copy it and then put this put

1348
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 3: the starter packs. What I've learned is if you go

1349
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 3: to Jordan Harbinger dot com slash start, you'll see the

1350
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: starter packs, but also if you search for it. So

1351
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 3: hold on, let me go to the start page. So

1352
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 3: if you go to the start page, there's all those

1353
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 3: starter packs like persuasion, influence, cults, scams, abnormal psychology, you know,

1354
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 3: I know, whatever.

1355
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 7: But then also there are Spotify.

1356
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 3: In Spotify, if you search for Jordan Harbinger, scam or cult,

1357
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 3: you'll find those same playlists and so people can just

1358
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 3: binge your show if you do that in your show. Yeah,

1359
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 3: so I highly recommend people one check out those starter

1360
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: packs on my show. But also then you should do

1361
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 3: the same thing because I think podcasts are hard to discover, right,

1362
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 3: Somebody has to like shove it down your throat like

1363
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 3: a multi level marketing scheme in order to get you

1364
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: to listen.

1365
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 7: And that's most people an't going to do that. But

1366
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 7: if you have something that's sort.

1367
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 3: Of easy, then people can share that or just jump

1368
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 3: in into like five episodes it once.

1369
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: That's genius, y'all. You should definitely check out his podcast. Yes, seriously,

1370
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: the most interesting people.

1371
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: We listened to one with a pen that was amazing. Yeah,

1372
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: so go for it, go wild guys.

1373
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks so much.

1374
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: Jordan.

1375
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you.

1376
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 7: This is a lot of fun. Hopefully we'll do the

1377
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 7: next one in person.

1378
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.

1379
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: Alrighty, this concludes our conversation with Jordan Harbinger. Thanks to

1380
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: Jordan for coming on. So, Megan, tell me, have you

1381
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: ever been picked up by a pickup artist?

1382
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I don't know, but I probably

1383
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: would be very turned off by that.

1384
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 5: Okay, can I make a confession?

1385
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1386
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 5: Have I ever said this on the show?

1387
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 4: No, because I have no idea what you're gonna say.

1388
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I hooked up with a pickup artist knowing full

1389
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: well every single play that he was doing, and I

1390
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: had read the game and I thought it was cheesy

1391
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: as fuck and decided to hook up with him anyway.

1392
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 5: How embarrassing is that?

1393
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 7: So?

1394
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: Were you just like you needed some love and you

1395
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: were just like, fuck it, I don't care. Were you like,

1396
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: I know this is fake, but it's such good technique

1397
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 2: that I'm like.

1398
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 5: It was bad technique. It was not good technique.

1399
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 4: Okay, So you were just like I'm lonely imbored in.

1400
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: But also I think he's I think this was an

1401
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: element of it because I knew what he was doing.

1402
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 5: I almost felt more powerful than him.

1403
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 4: Ooh interesting wait, but it.

1404
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: Worked out in his favor, but also it worked out

1405
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: in my favor because then he wanted to hang out

1406
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: more and I didn't.

1407
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 4: Ooh, I bet that went really well for his psyche.

1408
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: I think something about knowing precisely the moves that someone

1409
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: is doing and how they are trying to get like

1410
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: to win you. For some reason. I was like, oh,

1411
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: I called him out by the way. I was like,

1412
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're doing. I just you just

1413
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: did the square or whatever the fuck the mental exercise was,

1414
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: and he was like talking to my friend instead of me.

1415
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: He was like doing all of the things and he

1416
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: thought it was like so hot that I knew what

1417
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: it was.

1418
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 5: And then I don't know, you.

1419
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: Guys, it was one of my very I don't know,

1420
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: one night stand in many years, but it was one

1421
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: of the last ones.

1422
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 4: Oh what a what a way to go out.

1423
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 5: What a way to go Honestly, he's really nice.

1424
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: We're still friends. He is not a part of that

1425
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: world anymore. I think he probably regrets that time in

1426
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: his life.

1427
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 2: It was a it was a thing. Some guys needed

1428
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 2: some help and some guys were were nice about it.

1429
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: So whatever, yeah, whatever, what ELPs.

1430
00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 6: It can go either way.

1431
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 5: I think generally speaking, you know, just be yourself, you know.

1432
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, just be yourself.

1433
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 5: Come on, guys, this is really unique advice.

1434
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully we'll make it to next week. Hopefully the

1435
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: world will still be here in a week. If we do,

1436
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 2: please join us back here on the podcast for the

1437
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 2: first week of trauma.

1438
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, rethinking trauma.

1439
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 2: The first week of rethinking trauma, the first week of

1440
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 2: us giving you more trauma.

1441
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: I think every time someone listens, they're getting trauma. Yes, really,

1442
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: Why as we talk for too long I speak, it's

1443
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: stilf deprecating whatever.

1444
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 2: All right, you guys, remember to follow your gut, watch

1445
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: out for red Fox.

1446
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 5: And never ever trust me.

1447
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: Why