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Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to

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Speaker 1: you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening

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Speaker 1: and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot

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Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Talking to Death. This week, we have

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Speaker 2: a very fun guest for you. He is a paranormal investigator.

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Speaker 2: If you're into ghosts and spirits in the afterlife, then

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Speaker 2: you're going to love this next guest. His name is

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Speaker 2: Shane Pittman, best known for his work on Netflix's series

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Speaker 2: twenty eight Days Haunted, as well as The Holzer Files

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Speaker 2: on Travel Channel. Shane has a passion for the unexplained,

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Speaker 2: and he brings chilling and compelling content audiences around the world.

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Speaker 2: He's dedicated to his life and career to capturing the

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Speaker 2: unexplainable phenomena that surround us every day. He's a highly

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Speaker 2: respected member of his field and has some really fun

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Speaker 2: stories to tell, and he and Paine talk about some

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Speaker 2: really creepy encounters that they both had. They talk about

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Speaker 2: ghosts and aliens and everything in between. So let's jump

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Speaker 2: into it. This week's guest, Shane Pittman, Well.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to me, man, Hey, thank you, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. Man. I appreciate it. Traffic wasn't

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Speaker 1: too bad. No, it wasn't bad at all. It wasn't bad.

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Speaker 1: So tell me. I just want to ask you, point blank,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, are ghosts real?

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Speaker 3: That is a very very interesting question. I would say yes.

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Speaker 3: You would say yes. I would say yes, But I

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Speaker 3: would say as far as like defining what ghosts and

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Speaker 3: spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So I know that we're communicating with someone or something,

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Speaker 3: but I don't really know what it is. I just

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Speaker 3: know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, the how I labeled ghosts right now

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Speaker 3: is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say ghosts are real. Okay, So what

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Speaker 1: do you think it is? You know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I have a lot of theories on that, Like it

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Speaker 3: could be interdimensional, it could be.

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Speaker 1: Ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Like there's this interesting story okay, ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is it now getting weird? Yeah? Fast?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's this interesting story from a guy he

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Speaker 3: tells where he was a young kid and he walked

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Speaker 3: into his kitchen to get a sandwich, peanut butter sandwich,

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Speaker 3: and he was like five or six years old. He

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Speaker 3: walks in and he sees this hooded figure opening up

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Speaker 3: his his uh, refrigerator, and it freaked him the hell

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Speaker 3: out and he ran out of there scared to death.

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Speaker 3: Fast forward though he's about in his early twenties. He's

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Speaker 3: in the same house. He's visiting his parents, and he

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Speaker 3: runs down to get a snack, which a peanut butter sandwich,

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Speaker 3: and he runs down and he opens the refrigerator. He's

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Speaker 3: got a hoodie on, and he sees a small figure

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Speaker 3: in the doorway and at first he's like, this is strange,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense. But it freaked him out again.

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Speaker 3: But then he remembered when he was six years old,

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Speaker 3: he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot

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Speaker 3: that he was standing to go get a snack and

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Speaker 3: when he opened the refrigerator. And he's thinking that maybe

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Speaker 3: he saw a version of himself in the future. So

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Speaker 3: maybe we're haunting ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's kind of a confusing thing. So he

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Speaker 1: saw a ghost. Essentially, two times, and like it potentially

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Speaker 1: actualized that event right where, and then the second time

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Speaker 1: he was seeing the younger self, who was probably spooked

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Speaker 1: the first time that yeah, okay, now it's okay. How

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Speaker 1: do you make sense of that? I mean, we're just

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Speaker 1: making it up here, We're just speculating, But yeah, what

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Speaker 1: does that mean to you? Is there some sort of

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Speaker 1: time playing that we don't understand? Is an imprint? I believe.

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Speaker 3: I believe it is an imprint. I do believe that

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Speaker 3: it's a time thing too, because time is man made

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Speaker 3: as far as.

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Speaker 1: How we do it anyway. I mean, the concept of

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Speaker 1: the concept the ticking watch, right, that's just a measurement essentially,

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Speaker 1: right right.

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Speaker 3: Right, So we kind of come up as a man

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Speaker 3: made construct. And I believe that we are more powerful

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Speaker 3: than we kind of give ourselves credit for. I use

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Speaker 3: this analogy all the time that you know, I can

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Speaker 3: walk into a room after a couple had been done

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Speaker 3: fighting and they're not saying a word. I can walk in,

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Speaker 3: but you can feel the tension from that argument even

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Speaker 3: though they don't say anything to you at all.

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Speaker 1: Are you actually feeling something or are you observing them

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Speaker 1: being different? Well? I think it's a.

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Speaker 3: It's a mixture of both, because I've had this happen

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Speaker 3: more than one time, where you walk in there off

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Speaker 3: doing their own thing, but you can feel that something's

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Speaker 3: not right. You can feel like an energy or something right.

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Speaker 3: You can feel like a shift in the air or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And you know how sometimes you're walking down a dark

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Speaker 3: alleyway or whatever and you feel you just feel like

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Speaker 3: something's off. You feel like you usually deserve to do that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's the same, not just casually every Tuesday, right, right.

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Speaker 3: But you know, if you're walking in certain places, you

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Speaker 3: know that.

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Speaker 1: You're on high alert.

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Speaker 3: It's something within you that is telling you, hey, be careful.

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Speaker 3: It's that gut instinct. And I think that that has

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Speaker 3: something to do with it. I think that we have

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Speaker 3: more influence over certain hauntings then we, you know, we

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Speaker 3: may realize. So a lot of people say, oh, this

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Speaker 3: place is haunted or whatever, And I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of times it has to do with living more than

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Speaker 3: what we perceive as the dead.

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Speaker 1: You know, living is in the observer of it, or.

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Speaker 3: The observers sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place,

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Speaker 3: that are living there. I think sometimes it has to

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Speaker 3: do with maybe the environment with things that are going on,

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Speaker 3: stress levels and whatever that energy is admitting at the

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Speaker 3: time could play a factor in some of these strange

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Speaker 3: and unusual things that's going on in people's lives.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So instead of just being the Hollywood version of

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Speaker 1: you know, it's your dead great grandpa, it's maybe your

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Speaker 1: own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in

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Speaker 1: some sort of way. Absolutely, it's observable absolutely others even right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people. You know, I give this analogy again.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's been since the dawn of time probably

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Speaker 3: what millions billions of people that have passed from this

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Speaker 3: physical plane, and we confine them to structures. So often

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Speaker 3: we'll say this place is this place is haunted, this

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Speaker 3: place over here is haunted. But I feel that, you know,

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Speaker 3: if that's true, we pass on in some a fraction

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Speaker 3: of us stay, then we're they're everywhere, or a piece

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Speaker 3: of that person that was left behind is everywhere, so

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Speaker 3: we can encounter them, you know, daily.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's this sort of Hollywood image of

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Speaker 1: or I guess Hollywood portrayal of good and evil. So

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Speaker 1: frequently when it comes to hauntings and ghosts, it's always

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Speaker 1: usually portrayed as a good or evil presence, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's not very scientific, But I mean that

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Speaker 1: being said, you know, you hear stories about stuff that

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Speaker 1: feels darker or scarier in that way. But do you

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Speaker 1: perceive those darker instances as an evil presence or is

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Speaker 1: it just how we're perceiving it. I've just thought before,

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Speaker 1: what if something doesn't know where it is, or like

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Speaker 1: if it's you know, trapped in a place and it's

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Speaker 1: like stuck, or maybe it's not even it's like the

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Speaker 1: remnants of what it once was and it doesn't even

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Speaker 1: know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrated.

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Speaker 1: I'd be banging walls and shit too. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, well, and you know, we always fear what we

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Speaker 3: don't understand too, So a lot of people whenever they

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Speaker 3: have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear.

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Speaker 3: It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee

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Speaker 3: the area because you don't understand what's going on on.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't mean it's evil, that doesn't mean it's necessarily

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Speaker 3: bad to your point, you know, I feel like if

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Speaker 3: there is an instance where you do stay here, for

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Speaker 3: whatever reason, after you die, then if you were an

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Speaker 3: asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole

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Speaker 3: you stay in the afterlife. I mean, think about it

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Speaker 3: like your true essence of who you are. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you're a good person in life, it would make

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Speaker 3: sense that you would be a good person. If you

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Speaker 3: stay behind in some sort of a piece of you

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Speaker 3: left or stayed behind, then you would be still a

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Speaker 3: good person. But again, if you were an asshole, you'll

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Speaker 3: be an asshole again.

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Speaker 1: You know, an asshole ghost. Yeah, so I want you

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Speaker 1: to tell me just the first one that comes to

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Speaker 1: your head. What is a time that you have been

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Speaker 1: the most scared or or is there one or you

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Speaker 1: just like totally immune to ghosts. Tickle on the back

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Speaker 1: of your neck these days? Oh no.

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Speaker 3: So if anybody's watched The Holser Files, which I was

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Speaker 3: a part of for two seasons, you know, I'm a

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Speaker 3: very skittish guy, and I don't hide it. I'll jump

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Speaker 3: if I get scared.

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Speaker 1: It's just one of those things. I think.

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Speaker 3: One of the scariest times for me was whenever I

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Speaker 3: was in Cleveland, Ohio and we were investigating this train

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Speaker 3: yard and there were instances of a lot of weird

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Speaker 3: things going on. They had what they call a death car,

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Speaker 3: which why did we investigate this place, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But they had this place called the death car where

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Speaker 3: this particular train car was involved in a really bad

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Speaker 3: accident and essentially the people that were inside the train

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Speaker 3: car got steamed alive because there was a malfunction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible, horrible jesu. Okay.

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Speaker 3: But there was this other place in the train yard

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Speaker 3: called the pit, and of course they send me there because.

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Speaker 1: You know there'll be some good foot Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's like, uh, it's underneath this this train car

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Speaker 3: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I go under there and there's one way in,

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Speaker 1: one way.

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Speaker 3: Out, and I couldn't just walk in. I had to

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Speaker 3: crawl in because I think it's maybe two and a

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Speaker 3: half three feet high. And I'm crawling in there, and

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Speaker 3: for about four hours I'm in there. At this point,

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Speaker 3: nothing really is going on.

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Speaker 1: Four hours.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, you have to or anything. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: you have to hold it. Yeah, you just have to

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Speaker 3: hold it waiting.

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Speaker 1: For a ghost. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, guys, well you busy, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: you you do filming and stuff too. Sometimes, especially in

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Speaker 3: the paranormal genre of you have to wait sometimes hours

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Speaker 3: before for a light to flicker, yeah, or footsteps or

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Speaker 3: anything like that.

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Speaker 1: So here I was.

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Speaker 3: I was under the train car. It was about four

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Speaker 3: four and a half hours.

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Speaker 1: Did you get used to it? At that point?

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Speaker 3: I got used to it. I was getting bored and

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Speaker 3: I was getting frustrated it. It became less scary play

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Speaker 3: for a moment, right I was like, I was like, man,

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Speaker 3: there's oil, there's dirt.

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 3: It's not a cool environment to be in, and it

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Speaker 3: kind of sucks.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to go.

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Speaker 3: And while I'm thinking all of this, I start hearing

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Speaker 3: footsteps underneath the train car. And from the viewer's perspective,

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Speaker 3: though they're seeing, you know, it's bright, the IR light

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Speaker 3: is bright, but underneath I could barely see anything. It's

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Speaker 3: dark as hell under there. And so I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out where's where are these footsteps coming from? And

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Speaker 3: how can there be footsteps because I couldn't even walk in,

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Speaker 3: I had to crawl in. But I'm literally hearing footsteps

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Speaker 3: coming up to me. So I turned my camera around

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Speaker 3: and I'm looking and I don't see anything at all.

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Speaker 3: And then there's pebbles or rocks or something like that,

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Speaker 3: that are being thrown at me from underneath again, and

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Speaker 3: I can't pinpoint where it's coming from.

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Speaker 1: Like an actual physical, physical pebble.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm hearing them. I'm hearing them, but I don't

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Speaker 3: actually feel them hitting me, but I'm I'm hearing them

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Speaker 3: being thrown. And at this point, I'm like, Okay, it's

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Speaker 3: coming from the direction I need to get out of

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Speaker 3: and I don't. I'm frozen. I don't want to I

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Speaker 3: don't know what to do, Like I don't want to

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Speaker 3: go in the direction where they.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what this. Yeah, yeah, so.

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Speaker 3: That's going on, and I turn my camera and as

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Speaker 3: soon as I do, I'm looking in that direction and

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Speaker 3: I feel like a like a tug on my leg,

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Speaker 3: like something grabbing me. And so that's when I freak

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Speaker 3: out and I'm like, oh hell, and I then I

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Speaker 3: just I decide to just get out of there. But

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Speaker 3: later on, whenever I'm reviewing the footage, when I turn

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Speaker 3: the camera, you see like a hand come into frame,

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Speaker 3: like almost like coming from the from the left side.

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Speaker 1: Like an actual hand, like a shadow not your hand.

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Speaker 1: It's a shadow hand, not my hand, someone else, something

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Speaker 1: else's hands, and.

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Speaker 3: Shadow, a shadow of a hand like coming at the

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Speaker 3: same time I was grabbed, and you're like, talk about

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Speaker 3: you talk about being probably the most freaked out I've

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Speaker 3: ever been.

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Speaker 1: And to this day, the.

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Speaker 3: People that watched The Holter Files and said that's their

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Speaker 3: favorite episode because they got to see me freaked out

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Speaker 3: and scared. But that was the creepiest. That's probably the

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Speaker 3: creepiest time that I've ever had.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't some TV TV show shit. That was

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Speaker 1: some for real No, that was for real.

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Speaker 3: Well, see, that was one thing about me signing on

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Speaker 3: to do The Holzer Files, As I said, Look, I

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Speaker 3: know it's a TV show. I know we got to

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Speaker 3: have a good story. I know all of this has

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Speaker 3: to go on, but I really want it to be

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Speaker 3: as genuine as possible because I do this outside of

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Speaker 3: the TV world. I've been interested in the stuff since

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Speaker 3: I was six, So I don't want my reputation tarness.

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Speaker 3: I'm already looked at as crazy for believing in for

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Speaker 3: something other than myself, right, I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: Add to that.

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Speaker 3: So I want the footage, I want the audio. I

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Speaker 3: want to review it before I give it to the

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Speaker 3: editors and stuff, so they would hand off a drive

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Speaker 3: to me. Before I would even leave set the investigation time,

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Speaker 3: they would hand me a drive so I could review

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Speaker 3: it myself right on the spot, which is unheard of.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times. They don't usually, you know, roll

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Speaker 1: like the yeah time.

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Speaker 3: So I'm very thankful to have been a part of

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Speaker 3: a show like that. But yeah, they handed off to me,

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Speaker 3: and and all the footage that we found that is

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Speaker 3: in the show, I found it and gave them the

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Speaker 3: time stamps. So yeah, it's no TV shit at all.

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Speaker 3: It was real and I knew it. I mean, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of people ask me, oh, yeah, this is

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00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 3: just TV stuff, this is whatever. But then I asked them,

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Speaker 3: It's like, do you see how many times I have

291
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Speaker 3: basically shipped myself and looked horrible? Do you really think

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Speaker 3: that I want everybody to perceive me that way? No,

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I want to show you

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Speaker 3: genuine you know, how you would react at home. This

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00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,160
Speaker 3: is how I react, and this is just me, you know,

296
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Speaker 3: so or you're just.

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Speaker 1: A really good actor.

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Speaker 3: No, No, if anybody knows me I'm not there, that would.

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Speaker 1: Be acting way different, be way cooler, right, I would

300
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Speaker 1: be awesome, would scream like that you know, it's crazy too.

301
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Speaker 3: It like I I tried for the first couple of

302
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Speaker 3: episodes that we filmed, tried to be the stoic Shane.

303
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Speaker 1: You know. Then you were like fuck this.

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Speaker 3: And then after a while I was like, I can't

305
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 3: hide this anymore. I look awkward. This isn't this isn't normal.

306
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 3: I can't hide it wasn't the plan.

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Speaker 1: You were trying to go in all brave. Yeah. I

308
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Speaker 1: was trying to go in brave and not scared of anything, right.

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Speaker 3: I tried to do that, and then and the producers

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Speaker 3: and stuff were like, Shane, like, we've seen some of

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Speaker 3: your work.

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Speaker 1: We know this isn't you. Just be you.

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Speaker 3: Dave Schrader, which is another really awesome guy in the field,

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Speaker 3: he took me under his wing and he's like, Shane,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're scared, be scared, react, that's you.

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Speaker 3: Be you, because that's why they brought you on to

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Speaker 3: begin with, So be yourself. And from that advice, I

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Speaker 3: was like, Okay, fine, yeah, people are going to see

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Speaker 3: me right and and all my glory here we go. Yeah,

320
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Speaker 3: And from there that it was all she wrote.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of spooky moments. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of

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Speaker 1: paranormal stuff, right. I think that for ages we've been

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Speaker 1: fascinated by things that we don't understand, and there's a

325
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Speaker 1: lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in

326
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Speaker 1: the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what

327
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Speaker 1: any of it means or if it's you know, something

328
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Speaker 1: spiritual or scientific. I lean more to the scientific side

329
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Speaker 1: of it. But how do you get wrapped into it

330
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Speaker 1: in a way where you can be a professional investigator

331
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Speaker 1: of it? Right? Like? Clearly you as a kid found

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Speaker 1: interest in this at some point, right, what was it

333
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: that kind of made it more than just curiosity? Like?

334
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Speaker 1: How did it go from just being curious to I

335
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Speaker 1: do this? I guess you could say professionally. Literally, Yeah,

336
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Speaker 1: that's a big jump then, yeah, which is kind of

337
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Speaker 1: your kid sells probably like hell yeah, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, That's a very good question, and I'll try

339
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 3: to condense it as much as possible. So my first

340
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 3: experience was when I was six years old and very profound.

341
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 3: I went to my mother about it and it was

342
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Speaker 3: a very impactful thing for me and during that time

343
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Speaker 3: in my life. Without going into much detail, there was

344
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Speaker 3: a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff

345
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Speaker 3: in my life. And it was within the moments where

346
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Speaker 3: I was wanting to give up and you know, call

347
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 3: it quits, when I would have these weird, strange, unusual

348
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 3: moments that would kind of snap me back and say, Okay,

349
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Speaker 3: there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's

350
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 3: more beyond it that you can't understand. So from the

351
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 3: early age, once I got into my teenage years, I

352
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 3: started researching and reading all the books Harry Price, Hans Holzer,

353
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Speaker 3: all of the books based on the experiences that I

354
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Speaker 3: was having at the.

355
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Speaker 1: Time, which were what exactly well I mean.

356
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Speaker 3: For instance, when I was twelve years old, I had

357
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 3: I was in my room and the closet door was

358
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Speaker 3: kind of slightly open, and we had one of those

359
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 3: old houses where the carpet was higher, so the doors

360
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 3: would always scrape to the top of the carpet. It

361
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: would leave like a mark on there. And it was

362
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,640
Speaker 3: slightly open, and I was going to sleep. About five

363
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings,

364
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 3: so I was thinking, Okay, somebody's playing a trick on me.

365
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Speaker 1: So I go open the closet door. Nothing was in there,

366
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Speaker 1: so it was like, this is.

367
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Speaker 3: Weird, and me, being the smart Southern man that I am,

368
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 3: I leave it open again and I go lay back down.

369
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:58,479
Speaker 3: Probably a little time happens and it slams again. This

370
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 3: time I'm freaked out. I run to my parents' room,

371
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Speaker 3: which is across the hall, and they're like, Shane, you're

372
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 3: just you're trying to stay up. Go to bed right,

373
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 3: We're tired when we have work in the morn. So

374
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 3: they take me back to bed and for whatever reason,

375
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 3: that closet doors open again and it slams for a

376
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: third time. After they leave the room, this time they.

377
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Speaker 1: Run into my room.

378
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: And I grew up in a religious household, so my

379
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me, doing

380
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 3: whatever she can just just to like whatever's going on,

381
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 3: it needs to stop now. And I ended up sleeping

382
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 3: in their room that night. It was things like that.

383
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 3: It was I would have weird visions or dreams, I

384
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 3: guess you can call it. Where there would be people

385
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 3: that would walk up to my bedside and some of

386
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 3: them would look like they're terrified. Some would say where

387
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 3: am I at?

388
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't

389
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 1: know where the stuff? They were saying at the edge

390
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: of your bed, like they didn't know where they were

391
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: literally right, like where they weren't like haunting you, They're

392
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: like what it is?

393
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,959
Speaker 3: It's like, help me, where am I at? What's what's

394
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 3: so they look like us?

395
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: That scares me kind of they look like us that

396
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: they don't know where they are right more than them

397
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: knowing where they are and who you are right.

398
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 3: And at that time, it's like, Okay, am I is

399
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: this just my subconsciousness just because I'm going through a

400
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 3: lot of crap.

401
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, just stress imagining these things, right.

402
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 3: But then I would have other experiences like the door

403
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: slamming and stuff, things that I knew even at a

404
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: young age. Okay, it can't be a draft in my

405
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: room because the carpet. They're like, it's hard for me

406
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 3: to push the door closers stuff too, Right, So there's

407
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: compounding evidence. And even to this day, how I kind

408
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 3: of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything

409
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: and say, you know, if I hear footsteps, I don't say,

410
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 3: oh my god, that's a ghost or you know, I

411
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading

412
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 3: to something that I would assume would be more paranormal nature.

413
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: Then I will take a look at it and kind

414
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 3: of try to explore it further. But just like footsteps

415
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 3: or an old house settling, which can cause sounds of

416
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 3: what it would sound like wood creaking or whatever, right,

417
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 3: all that stuff is, you know, I think compounding evidence

418
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 3: is when we have to take a look at it

419
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: and you know, try to research further into what or

420
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: who we're communicating.

421
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: With these people. I'm to have this image in my

422
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: head now, these people on the edge of your bed,

423
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment

424
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: that those were definitely goes, And how would you rationalize that.

425
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: What are they doing there? I don't know. Like I said,

426
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: that's your best theory. If you were to make one up, I.

427
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 3: Would say that they're If they are real, I would

428
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 3: say that they are in some transitional period and maybe

429
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason,

430
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 3: they're stuck.

431
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: But you were seeing full people though, right, They didn't

432
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: look like a fragment of something. They were an actual

433
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: full embodiment, like where they wearing clothes and stuff. I

434
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: mean yeah, yeah, which is which is they seem like

435
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: they're from this time period? Could you even sell them?

436
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: Some of them, yes, some of them no? Do you like?

437
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: I remember there was this one lady who looked happy

438
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 3: and she was just walking by, but she was like

439
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: in a Victorian style dress, like just a dress, corset,

440
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: all that stuff, hair up in a bun.

441
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: It was strange.

442
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: And again, like I said, I would think, Okay, maybe

443
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: I'm just dreaming or but this was more than one

444
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: occurrence and more than one house that I was in,

445
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great,

446
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: but it was these moments where it's like, Okay, if

447
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: this is real, and not even saying it is for certain,

448
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: but if it's real, I want to find out more

449
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 3: about it. So the more that I researched and stuff,

450
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: the more I saw that there was many other people

451
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: that were having similar experiences and I just wanted to

452
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: know more. But then the corporate world happened, and so

453
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: my studying all that stuff came to a halt because

454
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: corporate world happened and I had to make a living.

455
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: There wasn't some Ghostbusters school around, No, I wish because

456
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: I may have sign me up. Yeah, But you know,

457
00:25:53,680 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: I started a family, had my wife and my kids

458
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 3: and stuff, and I had to provide for them. So

459
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: corporate world happened.

460
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: Believe it or not.

461
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: I was an executive in a company, worked my way

462
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: up and I was over hundreds of employees.

463
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: But I was miserable.

464
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 3: It was a soul draining existence.

465
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: I hated it. Sounds bad, I hated it.

466
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 3: And I was in a hotel room one night in Coleman, Alabama,

467
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: and I just rewind.

468
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: A little bit.

469
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: A couple of weeks prior, I had a buddy of mine,

470
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: a producer buddy of mine, saying, look, there's this gig,

471
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: this TV gig that I think you'd be good for.

472
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 3: You kind of fit the part of what they're looking for.

473
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: Why don't you send in your headshot and all that

474
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: stuff and see what happens. And I've been through all

475
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 3: of that before, and it's like, I don't really want

476
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: to do that. I'm good with my job, I'm making money,

477
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: it's fine. But because I was so miserable, I was like, Okay,

478
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: I'll just send it in. It only takes me a second.

479
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: Sure I do that, and fast forward. I'm in my

480
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: hotel room in Coleman, Alabama, and I'm in a really

481
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: low spot because I was working six days a week.

482
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: I would come home on Sunday and I sleep all

483
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: of Sunday away. So because I was so exhausted, I

484
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: wasn't seeing my family, was missing first steps, birthdays, holidays,

485
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 3: and I was just miserable. So I was in that

486
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: hotel room just crying out to whoever or whatever would listen.

487
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: It's like, look, I need help, I need to change.

488
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: I can't keep doing this. Within thirty minutes, I look down,

489
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: there's a phone call from la unknown caller. I pick

490
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: it up and it's the casting director for Holzer Files.

491
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: And that kind of led me into So it's almost

492
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: like a fate.

493
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: Type thing, like it was something that you're, Okay, I

494
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: should do this.

495
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 3: It's something that just kind of threw me into to

496
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 3: doing it professionally, and it was something I love of

497
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: mine that already had, so it was like a shoe in.

498
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: But you know, that whole process too was scary because

499
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: I was leaving a job that.

500
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: Was paying very well and my wife at a risk. Right,

501
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't just some easy My life's going to be

502
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: so much better now caah move.

503
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: And people think, you know reality TV, Oh man, you're

504
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 3: probably rolling in the dough. That's not the case at all.

505
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: People don't really understand how all of that is.

506
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: Like, guys, do you know the budget for these shows? Yeah?

507
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like a promotional type thing. It was

508
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 3: more of I was taking a pay cut of.

509
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: Course, Yeah, to do something that you wanted to do

510
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: versus I mean something that was I guess more financially stable,

511
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: right right.

512
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: So you know that's why I credit my wife a

513
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: lot to all of this, because she said, look, you

514
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: love this, this is a passion of yours. This is

515
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: something you've been wanting to do as far as searching

516
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: and investigating this stuff. So if you want to do it,

517
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: do it.

518
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for you.

519
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was scary time, man, because I bet

520
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 3: because taking that leap is taking that leap is hard.

521
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: I mean most people, I feel like, go through life

522
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: not ever taking that leap. I might say most, but

523
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people do, right, Well, they play, they

524
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 3: play into what's safe, right, which which is not which

525
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: also that's.

526
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: Okay, right, but if you're someone who is sitting there

527
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: who's on the edge of doing it, just do it

528
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: for sure, just for sure, and whatever that even is

529
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: for sure, you know, they just commit a crime or something.

530
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, right, Well, there's so

531
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: many people too like they play it safe because they

532
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: have a family they had to take care of. And

533
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: that's not knocking them at all. I completely understand that.

534
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, if you have an opportunity as something that

535
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: and it's doing something you love to do, just just

536
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: do it.

537
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: So when you look back in hindsight any regrets here, No,

538
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: does it almost scare you to think about if you

539
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: didn't take that risk. It scares me a lot, right

540
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: because how close you were to not doing right And

541
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: because me sometimes I'm like, holy shit, I almost didn't

542
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: do this right. Yeah.

543
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, and because I went through life and

544
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: I had some mental health things going on, because of

545
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: things that have happened in my life. Yeah, and I

546
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: always wonder, well, if I didn't take a step doing

547
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: something I love, where would.

548
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: I be at? Would I still be here?

549
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: And that's just being completely honest, because I'd gone through

550
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: a lot of really traumatic times in my life. So

551
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: now fast forward to this time. Whenever I'm at events

552
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 3: and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people

553
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but

554
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: about mental health. And like I've been there, I took

555
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 3: a leap, you know. If I didn't, if all of

556
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 3: these things didn't play out like they were supposed to,

557
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: I wouldn't up here talking to you right now.

558
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do what I love.

559
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: So I get to encourage other people that may be

560
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: in my same shoes at that time and be able

561
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: to give them some hope. And that's something that is

562
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 3: much more rewarding to me than a TV show or

563
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: anything else.

564
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, that human connection is priceless, right, And

565
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: because you've been that guy on the other end, and

566
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: you may be on the other end again, or I

567
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: might and it's the other way around, right.

568
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: Right, And believe it or not, Man, there's so many

569
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: people that come to my events that they come to

570
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: escape their own personal hell and their life, right, and

571
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: this is something that they love. But at the same

572
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: time they come to kind of escape that just the

573
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: everyday life of what they're going through and just.

574
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: Sort of live in this world for a moment.

575
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: Live in the world and get to explore something beyond.

576
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: That doesn't have the same rules and constraints. Maybe is

577
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: that how you kind of perceive it.

578
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: Or yep, that and it shows them kind of like

579
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: what I was thinking when I was younger, is like,

580
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: there's more beyond this life that I'm living.

581
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: There's more beyond that.

582
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: And people get to come to these events and share

583
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 3: and experiences of others that maybe going through similar things

584
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: that they're going through, and it's just a time of

585
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: fellowship and connection.

586
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: And I think that's.

587
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 3: Again more important than TV, more important than anything else.

588
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: And I think, I guess objectively speaking, it would be

589
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: a sadder reality if there was nothing else, right, you know,

590
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: not even from a religious standpoint, just if this was it.

591
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: It's just us here on this big rock. There's nothing

592
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: else out there, there's no other dimensions or anything. It's

593
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: just we have really good imaginations and you know, we're

594
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: just born up our minds at this point.

595
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be extremely sad, right, that's true, Solame,

596
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: It would.

597
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: Be boring blame than it would be sad. Yeah, it's

598
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: like that's stupid.

599
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: Really right, And you know, I think a lot a

600
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: lot of times I'd be thinking, too, well, am I

601
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: just hoping for something more?

602
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: I think there's that's part of it. I mean, I

603
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: think that life would be more interesting if there was more.

604
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think sometimes am I just do

605
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: I have an overactive imagination. But then, just to give

606
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: you a little example, these are things that kind of

607
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: snapped me out of that and say, no, there's more.

608
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: I was in h Waverley Hills Sanitarium, which is in Kentucky.

609
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: It is considered one of the one of the most

610
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: haunted places in America. That's debatable, you know, but.

611
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: I was there. The way I'm not going. I was there.

612
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: You need to go we need to go together first

613
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: or second, third out there. We need to go together.

614
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: It'd be fun.

615
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: No, okay.

616
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: So anyway, I was doing an event there and I

617
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: had a group of fifteen twenty people. Right, this is

618
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: a or you just well, you're you're leading like a

619
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 3: ghost hunt.

620
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: You're leading like a little guys like come to the

621
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: spooky place, and you're yeah, please tell me you actually

622
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: get scared in here as the guy who is I

623
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: guess not putting it on an act in this oh

624
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: sat and.

625
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: People see people see uh leading up to you'll see Okay.

626
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: So I have the group and I'm like, okay, And

627
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: what I like to do is get everybody quiet, because

628
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: when you have larger groups and stuff, it's kind of

629
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 3: hard to do anything because everybody's talking. Yeah, so I'm

630
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 3: trying to get the group together to shut up yep, yep,

631
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: well and kinder words. Yeah, And I look down the hall,

632
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: I see this man and he's kind of limping and

633
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: he's kind of falling behind, and I'm like, excuse me, sir,

634
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: can you please join us, you know, so we can

635
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 3: get started. And as soon as I say that, I

636
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: kid you not. You see the front of him walking

637
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: towards right. The only way I can describe it is

638
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: he morphs and you see the back of his head

639
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: and he's walking the opposite direction. It's like he did

640
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: a pivot. It's like he did an about face. But

641
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 3: you didn't see the about face. You just see him.

642
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 3: You see the back of his head instead. What's very

643
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: interesting about this, though, pain.

644
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: My whole group saw it.

645
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's not just me my perception. The entire

646
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: group saw this exact same thing. I sent two of

647
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: the guys that were there running because I stayed with

648
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 3: the group.

649
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: Of course, my.

650
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: Jumpy ass is not going to run after something like that.

651
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: I may be the pro, but I'm not going to run.

652
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 3: I'm going to send somebody. Yeah, I'm going to send somebody.

653
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: Stop.

654
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 3: So I sent two guys to go, and this guy

655
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 3: turns a corner. Whatever we saw, this shadow turns a

656
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: corner and heads towards the atrium, the little chapel in

657
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: the area, and they go in there and there's nobody.

658
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: Nobody in the chapel at all. We have We had

659
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 3: guards that are in watching over the exits so that

660
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: way people can't go in or go out and join

661
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 3: another group prematurely. We try to keep everybody together. They're like,

662
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 3: we didn't see anybody come in.

663
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: Or go out.

664
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 3: But the fact that my entire group saw this saw

665
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: that he didn't just turn around just saw. They saw

666
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: him walking forward, then saw him walking backwards full on

667
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: shadow figure man, and there was no trace of anybody.

668
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: That's what snaps me back. It's like, Okay, there's more

669
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 3: that we don't understand. We like to label it ghosts

670
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 3: and spirits. I don't like to say ghosts and spirits

671
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: as much anymore. I just know that we're talking to something,

672
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: whoever or whatever it is. I don't know what it is,

673
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 3: and it's kind of you know, I don't know how

674
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 3: to label it other than I know it's unexplainable. It's

675
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 3: something as of right now, it's paranormal nature. It's outside

676
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: of that box of scientific understanding.

677
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: Anyway. Why is it that ghosts are so hard to

678
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: capture on video and pictures? I mean there has to

679
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later,

680
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: or they're just really good at ducking it somehow, right,

681
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: or is it not? Like I mean, just if you

682
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: wanted to go there. Is it something that the human

683
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 1: eye can only perceive a certain way that isn't really

684
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: able to be captured like that? I don't know, Like,

685
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: do you have a thought on that? Yeah?

686
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, So again on Holzer files, we've shown that we

687
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: have captured some stuff. I think it is hand hand. Uh,

688
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: there was a mist. It was Howard's lodge.

689
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: I believe it is. There was a mist going.

690
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: Upstairs, some really interesting stuff that it's kind of hard for.

691
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: The anomalies that were not right.

692
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to to pinpoint what it is.

693
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: And I think that it has something to do with,

694
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: you know, our perception of what we can see what

695
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: our eyes can physically see. And that's why I r

696
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: can you know, it can capture things and it can

697
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 3: see in a different scope than what our human I

698
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: could see. I think it could be all frequency related.

699
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 3: I think that may have something to do with it,

700
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: that they may be showing up, but it's it's certain frequencies,

701
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 3: certain wavelengths, even cameras less physical well, even our technology

702
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe

703
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 3: they can capture that necessarily.

704
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: I think even with.

705
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 3: EVP electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something

706
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: on a recorder a voice that you know was not

707
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: yours or anybody else's. It's an interesting theory. There's this guy,

708
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: Bill Chapple that makes all of this tech and stuff,

709
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: and he will tell you firsthand.

710
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: That he doesn't believe in ghosts.

711
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 3: He just believes that there's some strange shit going on,

712
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told

713
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: me something that was really interesting about EVP. He's like,

714
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: you know, Shane, right now that I have this this

715
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part

716
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 3: of a room, and I can play music in that

717
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: frequency and it can sound like the music is coming

718
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 3: from over there, but really it's coming from this device

719
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: I have in my hand. But I can make the

720
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 3: sound go wherever I want it to go. What and

721
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 3: that's just what it's all I want. It's a mono

722
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: I have to ask him, it's mono something microphone, but

723
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: it's a.

724
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: Laser crazy, it's actually tricking your brain or is it?

725
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: And he really, well he can point it to certain

726
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: to certain like if.

727
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: There's exactly is he is still like audibly coming from

728
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 1: this device in his hand. So yeah, So it's electromagnetic pinginge,

729
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: pinging somewhere, eating this perception that it's not coming.

730
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: From and in frequency that the human ear can hear. So like,

731
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: if there's a group of people right sitting in an audience,

732
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 3: he can point this microphone to the right half of

733
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 3: the audience and only the right half can hear what's

734
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 3: coming through and the other half would be like, I'm

735
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 3: not hearing anything, right. So if there's things like that,

736
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency,

737
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: in regards to maybe our visual spectrum of what we

738
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: can see that that is unexplained, that maybe there's more

739
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: that if our eyes could see in that scope, we'd

740
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: be seeing a hell of a lot more, you know.

741
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 3: So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't

742
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: capture is maybe we don't maybe we haven't caught up

743
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: to the technology to be able to capture something like that,

744
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: you know. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in

745
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: certain times that we're able to see anomalies and we're

746
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: able to see things, you know, like there's different dream

747
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 3: cycles and sleep cycles and stuff, right, and in those

748
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: cycles you can there's it's best for like hypnosis and

749
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states,

750
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 3: we're able to see and understand more. It's the same

751
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: stuff with people who go through PTSD, and they'll claim

752
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 3: all the time they see all kinds of things, and

753
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 3: we say, yeah, what could just be because there's a

754
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 3: stress disorder. It's all the stuff, and we'll label it

755
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 3: as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're

756
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: not really seeing the things that they're seeing.

757
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes, well, either way, it's still a reality to them,

758
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. It's a very coming right where it's like

759
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: if it's real to you, is it real? What's real? Right?

760
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: We have the booth say it's real.

761
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: Well, and here's the thing too, like, uh, you know

762
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: psychics and mediums, right, So they say that they can

763
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 3: hear people speaking to them that nobody else can hear.

764
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: If you pay them money.

765
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: Well, I've worked with I've worked with some good ones. Now,

766
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: I've worked with some good ones. Okay, I will tell

767
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: you that I've worked with some good ones. And I'm

768
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: in the Bible belt man, So I was told that.

769
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: They were all demonic. These anyway, these fortune tellers are

770
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: really yeah, the devil, right.

771
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: But you know they say that they can speak to

772
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 3: people and they can hear different voices and things like that.

773
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: But then we'll label someone else that says that schizophrenic

774
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: right there. So there's a fine line. Yeah, there's a

775
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 3: fine line.

776
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: That are you crazy? Are you not? Are you seeing

777
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: the things? Are you hearing the things that? Are you

778
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: making it look polished enough? You have mediums, don't you know?

779
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: It is a wild thing. Like no, I get it.

780
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: I hear voices. That's usually not a good thing, right,

781
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: But is that not the same thing that they're saying, right?

782
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 3: That's the thing that called number for that, right. But

783
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 3: there's a fine line. But then you know, there's there's

784
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 3: some cases I've worked on or research some true crime

785
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: cases where they would call in mediums legitimately and sometimes

786
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 3: sometimes they would pinpoint or they would give some instances

787
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 3: where it would be a good lead.

788
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: In a lot of In a lot of instances they

789
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: have done that. So clearly they're like, we're running at

790
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: op since here. We'll try anything.

791
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 3: Even the government, real government with remote viewing and things

792
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 3: like that, they had, they had a whole program catered

793
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: to all of that. So I think there's something to it.

794
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: But to your credit, like, there's a lot out there

795
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: that you know aren't legitimate, and there's I believe there

796
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: are a handful that really are and that you we

797
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: need to listen to what they say before we just

798
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 3: discard because we.

799
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Could be missing out on advancements. Yeah, if this coming

800
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 1: out waste more than us and we're just over here,

801
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: you know, shrugging it off right.

802
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: Well, you got to think, for the longest time, people

803
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: thought the Earth was flat, and they thought anybody that

804
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 3: gave any other theory they thought were it is.

805
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: If you're still a flat earther, is that are you?

806
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: Are you really a flat earther?

807
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 4: If you're still a core flat earther, Are you just

808
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 4: you just being anti yeah right, I think you're being

809
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 4: a lily yeah, flat right, I mean like you're just

810
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: being a rebel.

811
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: And it's like to what end though, right, Like if

812
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: the Earth is flat, then why is it? What's the

813
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: point of the conspiracy? Like why why did we convince

814
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: you that it wasn't flat? Yeah? Like who cares if

815
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: it was flat or not? This doesn't make sense to me,

816
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: Like to what end?

817
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: And to all the flat earthers that they're listening right now.

818
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: One of you just tune out?

819
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 3: Yeah no no, But you know, people thought they were

820
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: crazy at one point, you know, and or well they were,

821
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: and then people who thought that sorry I said that,

822
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 3: all right, so people who flatter No, no, no, not

823
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 3: at all. People who thought people who entertained ideas that hey,

824
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: the Earth isn't flat. Yeah, everybody who thought the Earth

825
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 3: was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But

826
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 3: if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have

827
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: the advancements we have now. I screwed that all the

828
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 3: hell in back.

829
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're more on the flat side.

830
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.

831
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: But that's The thing is like, at one point in time,

832
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: people thought something was a certain way, but if they

833
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 3: didn't listen to to other theories and things like that,

834
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 3: then we would still be stuck in that right, right.

835
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 3: We didn't think if we didn't challenge that right.

836
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: Right, It's so easy to be in the moment and

837
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: think that we've learned everything, right. I think that's very

838
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: naive and closed minded to think that way. But I

839
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: totally get how even society makes it easier to think that.

840
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: But we are literally learning shit every single day and

841
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: we'll never stop. We'll never stop. People will ever stop.

842
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: You don't stop, period.

843
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: And this is why I love what I do so much.

844
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of people look at it

845
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 3: and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe

846
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: in all this stuff?

847
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: Huh.

848
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: But I think the search for something is far more

849
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 3: rewarding to me than actually finding the ant to all

850
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: of this stuff. I think the search and building the

851
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: connections along the way is far more valuable to me.

852
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: Just that pursuit and that journey that you go on

853
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: is kind of just your life story now.

854
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: Because as trial and error, you're you're thinking, Okay, is

855
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 3: this real?

856
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: Is this not, and you.

857
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 3: Entertain different theories and different things and come up with

858
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: your own conclusions. I mean, I think that is what

859
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 3: life is all about, really, is working out our own

860
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: life journey and learning along the way.

861
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: You had mentioned before we met that there was a

862
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: missing person's case you wanted to talk about it. Yeah,

863
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: piqued my interests. What is this case? What is it?

864
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: So it's the case of Diana Rojas. So and the

865
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 3: reason why this is so close to my heart is

866
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 3: because she was good.

867
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: Friends with my mom.

868
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 3: We were in Forderwin, California, and they were a part

869
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: of what they call PwC, which Protestant Women of the Chapel.

870
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:10,720
Speaker 1: So it was a Bible study.

871
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: Like I said, I grew up in a religious household,

872
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: and she was a really sweet lady. And while we

873
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 3: were there we would have get togethers and cookouts and

874
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: stuff like that. And then we kind of lost touch

875
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: because as military families do, that's what happens is you

876
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: kind of move on and do your own thing. My

877
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: mother calls me one day and she's like, hey, you

878
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: remember Diana Rojas It was like yeah, she said, well

879
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: she's been missing and she'd been out of touch with

880
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: her for some years. She's like she's been missing for

881
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: a while, since two thousand and In fact, her the

882
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 3: twenty third anniversary is in a few days. Actually, she's

883
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 3: been missing since October twentieth, two thousand and The reason

884
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: why I find it odd is she had a two

885
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: year old daughter at the time, and anybody that knew

886
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: Diana knew that she would never leave her daughter at all.

887
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 3: So just to talk about it just a little bit.

888
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: Leading up to this, her and her husband, they were

889
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: going through a divorce. His name is America. She had

890
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 3: a restraining order against him for stalking and for and

891
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 3: for violence and abuse, and so that's two strikes right there, right.

892
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 3: So they were going through this divorce at the time,

893
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 3: and a part of the court ordered like living arrangements

894
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 3: and stuff, America paid for two apartments in this apartment complex.

895
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 3: So Diana lived in one apartment and he would live

896
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 3: with his sister and daughter whenever he was on leave.

897
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: So one night there was a court ordered drop off,

898
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 3: she had to drop off her daughter to him, so

899
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 3: she did, and she had a date with her boyfriend,

900
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 3: which was David Howard, and they were in the apartment.

901
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 3: Twelve fifteen, twelve thirty in the morning on October twentieth,

902
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 3: David Howard leaves and he says he closed the door

903
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 3: behind him and locks it, and she's asleep on the sofa.

904
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 3: Diana is supposedly October twentieth. Nine am comes around and

905
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 3: David Howard is at church, of course, because he was

906
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 3: the pastor's son, so that's where she worked at the time.

907
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 3: It's called the nesting place, and he calls and there's

908
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 3: no answer, so they start freaking out where is she.

909
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 3: They go to the apartment and they don't find her,

910
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: but they find a couple of droplets her blood on

911
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 3: the sofa, and what was really weird about that is

912
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 3: there was a bandana on the sofa too that seemed

913
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: to be soaked in What they say is urine. What

914
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 3: the police say, urine, Yeah, okay, which is really odd.

915
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 3: And her ninety two black Nissan pickup truck was also missing.

916
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: So they did all this searches and stuff, and nothing

917
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 3: came up. David Howard, the boyfriend, and America Rojas.

918
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: Were interviewed and they were.

919
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 3: Suspected at the time, but they both had alibis. America

920
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 3: said that he was with his daughter and sister in

921
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: the apartment and so they guess and for that at

922
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 3: the time, at the time, I say, okay. So the

923
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 3: police later on said that there was inconsistencies. They couldn't

924
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 3: validate whether or not the alibi and matched up or not.

925
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 3: David Howard he had a solid al I don't remember

926
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 3: what his alibi was. But years go by, and what

927
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 3: is really frustrating for me is that ninety two pickup.

928
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 3: There's no paper trail, you know how vehicles normally have

929
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: the paper trails and all that. There's no sign of

930
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 3: this truck at all.

931
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: Like it's never come up again to your knowledge at all.

932
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's just disappeared with her. Yeah.

933
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 3: So what's weird is years later, I believe what sixteen

934
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: years later, they get an anonymous tip Long Beach does

935
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 3: and they say, hey, look, Diana Ross, she's not missing,

936
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 3: she's dead and you can find her in the desert here.

937
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: She's buried there.

938
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: And this anonymous tip gave coordinates, gave like the location

939
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 3: of where she was buried. So the police of the

940
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 3: time was like, I think, as Mark Biggles as the detective,

941
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,479
Speaker 3: He's like, Okay, I need to check this out because

942
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: this is looking promising, so they linked up with this

943
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: third party group called necro Search, which they deal with

944
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,919
Speaker 3: like anomalies. They use satellite imagery to see if there's

945
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 3: any anomalies from months to month.

946
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: Or year to year in ritation to it's like the

947
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: geography change where someone may have been buried there or yep,

948
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: something like that, yeah, yep.

949
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 3: And they came across eleven anomalies that they sent to

950
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: the detective, and the detective narrowed it down to five

951
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 3: and then there was one specific spot where necro Search said,

952
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: this is probably your best bet of if she's buried here,

953
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 3: this is where you'll find her. So they took out

954
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: a crew dug up these spots nothing, so the family

955
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: had to relive all of this again. It was like, Okay,

956
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,479
Speaker 3: they thought they were going to get some closure. Okay,

957
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: she's you know, even though it's not good still, but

958
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 3: they they were robbed of that closure again because they

959
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: didn't find her. They didn't find the truck. And another

960
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 3: puzzling thing is America Rodriguez right his mo in the military,

961
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: because he was in the military, was operating earth diggers

962
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 3: like earth movers, these bulldozers and excavators that was his

963
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 3: MO in the in the military.

964
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: It's someone who clearly knows how to do that. If

965
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 1: that were right.

966
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 3: There's a lot of things strange about this.

967
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: The letter sent to the police, like the head coordinates.

968
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: Does someone write a letter.

969
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 3: Like no, no, no, they called in. They called and said, hey,

970
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 3: look this is where you can find it. They called

971
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 3: in address it was a male. Well, they said that

972
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: they couldn't there was. The detective said that there's no

973
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 3: way we could have pinpointed who.

974
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: It was that gave the TI. Well, if that's too bad. Right.

975
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 3: So it's a lot of really puzzling, frustrating things for

976
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 3: me because it feels like, and I'm not trying to

977
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 3: to blame anybody, but it feels like there's the ball

978
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 3: has been dropped in some way here.

979
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, clearly you're at this point, you're looking

980
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: at two people that need to be reinterviewed by the police,

981
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: right yep. Or let me talk to you. Then, if

982
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: if this was your friend, you should be wondering what

983
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: happened to her. Still, I know it might be hard

984
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: to talk about, but it would be more suspicious if

985
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: you didn't, right, because you could help clear up a

986
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: lot of stuff.

987
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 3: And here's another thing payint Like, not long after Diana

988
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 3: came up missing, America tries to take out a three

989
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy after after so mean, okay,

990
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 3: why would you even okay, exactly call one exactly and

991
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 3: that just as obvious as it seems, right, But but

992
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 3: think about it, like if you have a two year

993
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: old daughter, Yeah, you're not gonna want to just give

994
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: up hope that your daughter's mother is dead.

995
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: How holds the daughter now?

996
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 3: Now she's twenty twenty five? Twenty five?

997
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: Yep? Wow.

998
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 3: So and that's another thing. America cut off all ties

999
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 3: with Diana's side of the family after all this went down.

1000
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 3: So Mercedes not only lost a mother, but she lost

1001
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 3: that whole side of her family as well. Ease, okay,

1002
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 3: so all of these things just it's frustrating. Why would

1003
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 3: you take out a life insurance policy? Then one of

1004
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 3: his friends from Ford Irwin, his soldier buddies, tells the

1005
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: police that and tells friends that America said, oh, they'll

1006
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 3: never find Diana. Why would you say that? Why would

1007
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 3: you say that if you didn't know something? You know

1008
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 3: what I mean, I'm not trying to get that point

1009
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 3: blame here.

1010
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: These are things that this person should answer to. I mean,

1011
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,479
Speaker 1: if they aren't true, then defend yourself. But I think

1012
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: that either you're just really really unlucky or you're not right.

1013
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 3: And it's it's sad because again Mercedes had to go

1014
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: and she's probably been told a different version.

1015
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: Of a story.

1016
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then missing out on that half of her

1017
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 3: family as well.

1018
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: It's horrible.

1019
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 3: And again, anybody that knew Diana knew how sweet she was.

1020
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 3: I remember I was only thirteen at the time, twelve,

1021
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 3: thirteen years old. She was always super sweet to me,

1022
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 3: very funny. Yeah, just a great person. But I remember

1023
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 3: America as well. When we were having one of the

1024
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 3: get togethers, he looked like he didn't want anybody there.

1025
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: Oh really, And he remembers this.

1026
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 3: He's very intimidating, very interesting, very intimidating guy, like like

1027
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 3: very stern face, didn't didn't give a shit if you

1028
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 3: were there or not, didn't want you there. I wouldn't socialize,

1029
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: so it would.

1030
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: Give you bad vibes.

1031
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 3: Even then, And whenever my mother told me that she

1032
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 3: went missing, she told me right away she felt it

1033
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 3: was probably America because there was a restraining order that

1034
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: she took out against him. She would tell her co

1035
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 3: workers that he broke her arm one time and that

1036
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 3: she was fearful of her life. All of this stuff,

1037
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: and he was never He was never a prime suspect.

1038
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 3: I don't get it, you know, pretty cut and dry.

1039
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 3: Hopefully someone hears something.

1040
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: Or and that prompts someone to speak about this, because

1041
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: I assume he's still around likely right as far as

1042
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: I know he is. Yeah, I haven't been.

1043
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 3: Able to because I tried to research, try to find

1044
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 3: them online and stuff right head over the years, I

1045
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: haven't been able to locate him or his daughter. I

1046
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 3: look to see if really maybe his daughter was had

1047
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 3: a social media presence at all.

1048
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, I already did.

1049
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 3: All are the pros here on that, but but you know,

1050
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: that's that's one thing. Kind of what led me into

1051
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: researching it some anyway, was like I have this group

1052
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 3: whenever I'm not doing the TV stuff called the Searchers,

1053
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: and it's me and a longtime buddy of mine, Josh Purvis,

1054
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 3: and we try to provide answers for those unusual, unexplained things,

1055
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 3: but also for the living as well. So we've done

1056
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: some true crime stuff as well, just because it's all

1057
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: about the search, like we're all searching for something strange

1058
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 3: and unusual, or it's other things, you know, we're all

1059
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 3: searching for something. We're all on a journey. And this

1060
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 3: just hit close to home, man, and the fact that

1061
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 3: this beautiful lady there's no answers whatsoever. There's some leads

1062
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 3: and being told and she could be out there in

1063
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 3: the desert. They could have missed her by one hundred yard.

1064
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's worth researching.

1065
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 3: I mean, And there was eleven anomalies. Where did those

1066
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: anomalies come from? How were those there? If they were

1067
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 3: different from a certain time to present, why were those

1068
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 3: anomalies there in the first place? Yeah, just so many

1069
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: a lot of unanswered questions. And if you narrow down

1070
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 3: six anomalies, why didn't you just go to the other six.

1071
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: I know you have to have resources and time and

1072
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 3: money and stuff.

1073
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: Right, this is not cheap or easy to do by

1074
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: any means, But why not investigate the places the soul search?

1075
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 1: I think? Right?

1076
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: Right, that's what it sounds like, right for her when

1077
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 3: if anybody's been there, that's like the that that I

1078
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 3: don't want to cut too much of that asshole of

1079
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 3: the west. It was like one hundred and it was

1080
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 3: it was like one hundred and thirty degree dry heat.

1081
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 3: That's oh god, whenever we first moved there, and it's

1082
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 3: just there's nothing there but as whole of the west,

1083
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 3: the ass whole of the West. But there's nothing there

1084
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 3: but desert man. Like, So, I mean, if she was buried,

1085
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 3: I think that if something happened to her in that way,

1086
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 3: that she's buried with the truck, because why would there

1087
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 3: not be a paper trail, why would there not.

1088
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: Be the register? That's an interesting point.

1089
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 3: And even the detective at the time, he's like, there

1090
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 3: is no trace at all of this truck since and

1091
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 3: this is years and years later, man. So I would

1092
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 3: think that if something.

1093
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: Happened, the truck is part of the evidence there.

1094
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: Right on with her, because she wouldn't have left. She

1095
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: wouldn't have left her daughter.

1096
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: There's something you would keep, right, it's worth something.

1097
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 3: And it wasstered. You know, it's registered in America's name.

1098
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: Right, What why in what circumstance are you ditching the

1099
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: truck here? Yep? If it's foul play, for sure. So

1100
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: it's a good point.

1101
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's mind boggling to me.

1102
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, we'll share this in the episode. Hopefully someone here, Yeah,

1103
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: please please do.

1104
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 3: If anybody here know anything, you could have the missing

1105
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 3: puzzle piece that ties all of this together and gives

1106
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 3: closure to a family. And that's what's the most is

1107
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 3: the most important about all of this. But yeah, I mean,

1108
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 3: there's so many sad there's so many missing persons that

1109
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 3: you are instrumental in a lot of all of this

1110
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 3: bringing it to light. But there's so many people out

1111
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 3: there that don't get the closure, that don't get the answers,

1112
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 3: and that is heartbreaking, you know, especially for a young

1113
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 3: kid Mercedes that had to grow up without a mother.

1114
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking stuff. And never knowing it if her mother

1115
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 3: abandoned her or if she's dead.

1116
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: She has no answer, just the unanswered question part of it.

1117
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: It's got to be a whole other layer that is

1118
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: hard to i mean, probably unimaginedly hard to grapple with. Yeah,

1119
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: and the.

1120
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: Fact that he talked to his friend saying that there

1121
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 3: that they would never find her. He's talked to more

1122
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 3: than just that friend. Then yeah, if if, if that

1123
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 3: is true, and he really did say that, there's more

1124
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 3: people that know something absolutely.

1125
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: Or they've observed behavior or instances over the years that

1126
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: point to a direction. Here. For sure, it's be a

1127
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: one off thing, but if you put it with everything else,

1128
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: here tells us something that this family needs to know. Ye. Well, yeah,

1129
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: hopefully something happens. We'll just some digging too. I'm curious, Nat,

1130
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: please do the people are now? But yeah, cases get

1131
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: solved every day. It's not easy to do. But sometimes

1132
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: the time that's passed is a good thing for certain people.

1133
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: Maybe people are less or more likely to talk because

1134
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: their life's different.

1135
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, or it's been weighing on them for so

1136
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 3: long they have to get it off their checks.

1137
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: Or they're ready to free themselves of the burden of

1138
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: it all.

1139
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know it's anonymous tips for a reason.

1140
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 3: I would really love to know who that man was

1141
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 3: that gave the tip and said that, oh she's she's

1142
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: she's been murdered.

1143
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: That something rankster, right, Either one, it's messed up.

1144
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 3: But but if it was a prankster, because that's what

1145
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 3: what my thought process was too. But if there it

1146
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 3: was a prankster, then why would there be anomalies in

1147
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 3: the area that he's that this tip came from said, Hey,

1148
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 3: she's buried out here. Why would there be these anomalies

1149
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 3: in that area? It just doesn't make sense.

1150
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: Doesn't Yeah. Well, if we find anything, I'll let you know. Yeah,

1151
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: please do, please do well. Thanks man, this has been

1152
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: a blast. Yeah. I appreciate it all kind of places. Man,

1153
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, I appreciate it. Thank you.

1154
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 5: Talking to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and

1155
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:31,479
Speaker 5: iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For Tenderfoot TV,

1156
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 5: executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive

1157
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 5: producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are

1158
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 5: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup

1159
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 5: and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

1160
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 5: Sean Nurney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production

1161
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 5: support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing

1162
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 5: and mastering by Cooper, Skinner and Dayton. Our cover art

1163
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 5: was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website Talking

1164
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 5: to deathpodcast dot com.

1165
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode, of Talking to Death.

1166
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you

1167
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,320
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1168
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,520
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1169
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: dot com