WEBVTT - Tate Donovan 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.000 I go into this room. It's really funny, and Ron 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.160 and John are there, they're the two directors, and they're like, Okay, 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:08.800 thank you very much, and you know, you've got this 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:10.800 microphone in front of you and they're sitting on a 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.960 couch and it's sort of like a regular audition except 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.160 for the microphone. And then they're like, anytime you're ready, 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.040 just go ahead. And then they just bowed down their 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.000 heads and closed their eyes as if, you know, they 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.880 were praying or something like that. Like, you know, I 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.200 was like, what, I had no idea, Like they didn't. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:35.680 They didn't need to look at me at all. Hey, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.440 it's day Donovan, and I've been around a long time. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.800 You've probably seen me in something and you're probably gone, 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:53.000 what's that guy's name? Yeah, I've seen him in other things. Hello, 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.960 my friends, and welcome to yet another episode of Off 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.600 the Beat. I am your excitable host, Brian bomb Partner. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.640 Now today's guest, as you just heard, is the amazing 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:10.319 and very funny Tate Donovan. Now, Tate has taken on 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.600 a huge range of roles. Everyone knows him, but I've 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.080 noticed that fans seem to recognize him for something different 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.959 depending on their age. I mean to give you a sense. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.680 He worked on The O C as Jimmy Cooper, otherwise 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.920 known as the resident Dad facing embezzlement charges, which I 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.440 assure you is a thing. He also guest starred on 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.880 Friends for five episodes, was in Damages with Glenn Close. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.600 He was an Argo good Night and good Luck Manchester 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.080 by the Sea, and you or your kids might even 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.440 recognize his voice as the title character of Disney's Hercules 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.280 in both the film and TV series. Tate has truly 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.320 done it all. So today we're gonna get into those roles, 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.520 Tate's directing career and how he has found common in 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.760 a variety of genres, shows, and characters. This was such 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:10.639 a pleasure for me, So without further at you, Kate Donovan, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:19.359 Bubble and Squeak, I love it Bubble and Squeak on 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.760 Bubble and Squeaker, Cookie, every moment left over from the Nabby. 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:44.079 What's update, Brian? How are you? I'm great, man, I'm great. 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.040 I'm so happy to be talking to you. Oh my gosh, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.440 I'm so happy to be talking to you. Thank you 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.000 so much for joining me. Here are you kidding me? 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.040 I'm a I'm a huge fan. Well, listen, I'm a 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.520 huge fan of yours as well. I'm I'm gonna be 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:05.560 fan boying all over you today. I wanted to start, however, 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.160 to go to go back before before I knew who 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.320 you were. Remarkably, you grew up in Jersey. Is this right? 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.760 You grew up in Jersey? Now at this point it 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.000 was kind of a national pastime to make fun of 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.840 Jersey when you were growing up. Did you have a 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.240 complex about that or were you Oh? Yeah, I still do. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.880 I still do. I have a total complex. When everyone 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.360 asked me like, where are you from, I'm like, outside 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:35.720 of New York City. I can where, uh the New 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.280 Jersey right right right across the George Washington Bridge. Yeah, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.240 it's it's so far. I used to lie about it 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.800 all the time because you're right, I mean, growing up, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.280 you know, in the seventies, listening to Saturday Night Live, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.120 every joke was about how he's from New Jersey, you know, Rosanne, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.120 Zanna Dana. It was just like all the idiots were 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.320 from New Jersey. It was like the cancer capital of 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.440 the world. Everybody made fun like what eggs it? Are 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.360 you from? In New Jersey? You know, like they didn't 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.000 have towns or anything just exits off the turnpike. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.520 I'm still a little I still I need a couple 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.480 more sessions with my therapist and I should be ready 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.359 to accept that I'm from the Jersey. Yeah, I but 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.279 I'm told which is again, this is this is not 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.400 what I would have expected that that you you never 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.120 locked your doors as a child. There It's like it 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.400 was it was it did you feel safe? Well? Yeah, 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.560 we never had a lock on our doors. Like when 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.479 my parents finally sold the house, they were like, okay, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.919 can we have the keys? And they're like, we haven't 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.560 seen keys in a hundred and fifty years. Um, we've 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.640 never had keys. I remember one time we went away 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.680 for vacation. We used to vacation out in Long Island, 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.240 which is sort of like the second worst place to 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.480 be from um and like the north Shore, not the 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:00.400 beautiful Hamptons opposite. Yeah, we left our front door open 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:08.640 for two weeks. Finally, our our next door neighbor was like, hey, uh, 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.560 you know, can I close your front door? It's been 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.479 opened for two weeks. And I'm like we're like yeah, sorry, sorry, 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.279 thank you. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I never locked a 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.719 bike in my life, you never locked a bike. No, 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.680 not until I went to college. Did you ever have 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.640 a bike stolen? I guess this's then the next question. Uh, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.720 you know yeah, um borrowed, Yeah, borrowed. Yeah, like kids 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:34.840 would take your bike, you know, and to mess with you. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.320 But you know it's never stolen. We always got it 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.880 back and you know, yeah wow, but you know my 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.599 first bike I was stolen was in New York City 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.680 and I went up to audition and I have run 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.000 up the stairs through audition. I locked my bike. It's 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.440 like one of those kryptonite bikes, you know, like bike locks. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.720 It was like guaranteed. And I run up to the 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.600 audition and that I find out it's not there. So 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.160 I run back down. I must have been gone thirty 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.039 five seconds and my bike was stolen. I was anyway, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.039 New York City, different place. Yeah, that's a that's a 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:10.520 different place. You were the youngest of six kids. Now 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.360 did you did you feel like you needed to do 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.280 something to stand out as a child or were you 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.560 were you? Were you all fairly close and well adjusted? 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:27.599 Or I mean I'm asking more, when did you start performing? 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.440 And I don't mean professionally, I mean, when did you 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.400 feel like you started right? Yeah, well, um, at the 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.080 age of four, I went to see a movie with 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.640 my parents and I wanted to sit away from them. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:43.640 I always wanted to be like an adult or I 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.400 don't know, for some weird reason, I just wanted to 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.039 be like independent. So I sat away from them. And 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.919 it was a movie about medieval nights. I don't know 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.440 what movie it was, but it was like st and 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.400 I just looked up on that screen and I was like, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.040 Oh my god, that's what I want to do that 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.680 for a living. I want to I want to be 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.839 in a movie. And and what's interesting is that my 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.320 next thought was, Wow, if I feel this way, everybody 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.720 must feel this way, Like I must be really hard. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.680 You can't just waltz into that, you know. But I 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.560 sort of had to keep that a secret because, um, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.480 I would do high school plays and and stuff like 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:24.000 that all the time. But my parents were I came 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.440 from a crazy group of kids. Like we weren't adjust 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.000 well adjusted, let's just put it that way, Like besides murder, 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.960 we basically committed every sin you could possibly do. It 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.920 was like the sixties and seventies. It's just a crazy time. 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.840 And teenagers in my family were just nutbags. So I 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.320 was just sort of like conservative one and went into 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.360 a theater and acting. So that's shows you how crazy 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:57.160 my not politically conservative, but no lifestyle, lifestyle conservative. So 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.440 you're just doing high school plays. But are you at 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.480 that point, you know, you started four, you're doing high 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.560 school plays. Are you still committed, like this is what 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.560 you want to do? You were, you were an early 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.400 you decided early what you wanted to do with your life. Yeah, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.360 I did. And and I remember hearing Meryl Street get 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:19.120 interviewed and she said when she was in high school, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.000 she would pretend that she was already a professional actress 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.240 and that she would get involved in every show like 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.120 like like it was a job, like she needed the 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.920 money and and so that's what I did. I was 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.680 just like, you know, I'll take a small role here, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.800 I do I do? I have no lines in some 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.680 play in the school musical. Uh, you know, I would 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.000 just be on stage or whatever, you know, like carry 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:44.920 a spear and then I'd be the lead and something 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.840 else I was. I was just like I wanted to 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.480 do it so badly, and I had to keep it 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.520 a complete secret. It was it was, Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.280 my dad was a doctor and my mother wanted me 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.360 to be a lawyer or you know, something decent that 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.320 required an education and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.160 it was heartbreaking for them when you made the decision. Yeah, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.880 when I told him I I was in college. I 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.840 told him I was going to a major in theater. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.520 And my dad literally for two and a half years, 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.920 did not talk to me. Wow, he's he sent me 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:29.040 articles from the New York Times about either how impossible 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.719 it is to become an actor or like he'd sent 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.240 these articles on these actors who just like became stars 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.400 and never take an acting class in their life, you know, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.840 like he just thought it was a giant waste of 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.480 you know, education to study theater. It's like the dumbest thing, right, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.600 And he may be right. Actually, wait, so you so 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:54.079 you're your New York City adjacent so you're not you're 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.439 you're not auditioning in the city. You're just doing school 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.199 plays and trying to do that and kind of pretending 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.160 to your parents have this was a hobby. And then 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:07.600 how do you find because USC because I actually, you know, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.439 I applied to USC, was actually offered a scholarship, Thank 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.199 you very much. I didn't go to USC, but I 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.520 but that that was like it wasn't necessarily a conservatory 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.920 training program, but but it was a significant program. How 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:25.480 did you convince them if your scheme was to go 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.360 to USC and eventually get into theater, how did you 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:33.080 convince them to for you to even go to USC that? Well? 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.240 I got into two colleges, n y U and USC, 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.920 and I I they were sort of like, you know, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:41.840 I was the last one, and they were sort of 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.120 sick and tired of dealing with kids, and they were 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.160 just like, okay, we'll do whatever you want. And I 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.959 was general you know, uh general major when I first 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.320 went there, Liberal arts or whatever. Yeah, yeah, liberal arts, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.400 and um I did a play and I fell in 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.280 love with studying theater. I was just like, oh god, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:07.120 I gotta do this. And I quietly switched my major. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.800 And uh, my dad found out and hit the roof 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.520 and just like we got in the biggest argument. But 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.800 to his credit, I also had professors right to him 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.880 and say, hey, Tate has a chance of making it 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.880 in this business. He should he should study. And I 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.200 always thought my dad ignored all of those letters, and 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.640 but One of the more moving things was when my 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.080 dad passed away and I went through his um his desk, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.199 I found this letter from one of my professors, John 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.600 Blanket Ship at USC, and I just dissolved, you know, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.560 like obviously he he he listened to those letters and 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.439 he ended up paying my tuition, which you know was 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.680 a fraction of what it is now. But yeah, yeah, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.280 I mean, so he did it. And you know, fortunately 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.800 I got work while I was going to college. I 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.920 was lucky enough to get some jobs, and so he 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.839 was like, well, maybe he'll make a living and yeah, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.199 where did you go to school? I went to s 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:16.760 m U Southern Methodist University in Dallas. In Dallas, so 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.920 at the time, it was a conservatory training program and 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:22.920 that was sort of for me. That was what I 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.000 was I was looking for. And you know, they had 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.880 and I don't know if USC was going through some 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.280 renovations at the time, but I've told this story before, 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.880 never specifically to USC graduate. But I was from Atlanta, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.720 and so I I flew, we flew, me and my 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:45.199 dad we flew to California and went to USC and 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.800 went to the theater department office. I'm putting that in 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.520 quote because it was a trailer. It was it was 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.719 in a trailer, a trailer. It wasn't temporary. It was 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:02.720 still there. It wasn't temporary. Hit hoole, right. So I 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.480 went there and I met them, and I was like, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.280 all right, this is Los Angeles. And actually while we 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.680 were there on that trip, I went to I still 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:16.600 remember going with my dad to the old Grammins Chinese Well. 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.000 We went to hard Rock Cafe, of course because we 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.760 were from Atlanta, and we thought that's what you did. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.360 And then we went to Gramma's Chinese Theater and I 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.360 saw Goodfellas. I don't know if that was when it 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.800 was out or if it was a special showing shortly after. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.320 I would have to look at the day, but I 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.800 know that's what I saw, a Gramins Chinese theater, and 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.079 I thought it was so cool. And then I flew 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.200 from Los Angeles to Dallas and walked into the theater 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.760 department at s m U, which was about a thirty 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:50.160 million dollar building with three fully functional thrust stage, a 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:55.840 precenium stage, black box that was fully and I was like, well, 0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:00.679 let me see. I could go to a trailer are 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.160 or I could stay here. And that was that was 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.600 for me, a quick decision, and it was a little 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.400 closer to Atlanta, which I think probably made my folks happy. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.920 But but but I was curious about this, knowing I 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:15.760 was talking to you and you going to USC So 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.840 you you did start auditioning, sort of getting into the 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.680 business while you were in school, right, Yeah, yeah, I 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.160 lucked out. There was a girl in the class ahead 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.520 of me who was doing an internship at a tiny 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:36.160 talent agency called Contemporary Coreman Artists. And they said, they're 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.360 They're like, are there any kids that in your school 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.960 that are you know, you think you can work? And 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.560 she was. She picked about four or five and we 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.680 all went to their crappy little offices and uh in 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.520 Beverly Hills, and they signed me. And the other intern 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:57.120 was a guy named David di Camillo and he, uh, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.560 he was just out of college and I was still 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:04.359 in college. And he is still my agent. Four wow, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.880 some odd years later, I'm at gersh But I'm trying 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.120 to think, this is nine eighty three or four, So 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.000 what has it It's been forty years. Forty years, Yeah, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.480 forty years I've had the same agent. Can you imagine 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.080 that is amazing? I know, it's incredible. I mean, I 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.160 have a similar story. I have the same manager that 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.400 I have when I moved to Los Angeles, not not 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.480 quite that long. I think I've been through seventeen agents, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:41.040 just to be clear. Agents. I think probably had actually 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:45.440 I never went to. But yes, I um, that's that's awesome. 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.320 I love to hear that. But you were at school 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.520 and you had some people I don't know if if 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:57.120 they were accepted this agency, George Clooney, Grant Heslov who 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.920 now have become longtime friends. Were you classes together? Were 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.520 you in the actual the same class? Well, George wasn't. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.280 George wasn't at SC, but Grant, Grant and I were 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:13.080 best friends in going to s C, and Grant one 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.520 summer did a play with George and then they became 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.120 with great friends. And then sort of like George and 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.440 I became friends through Grant. Yeah, so I'm still great 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.600 friends with Grant. I don't I don't really see George 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.520 too much, but you know, we ever get a basketball 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.440 game together, I'd love to be there. Yeah, it's crazy. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.840 Who else who else was in my class? Uh? Forest 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.560 Whittaker was a two years older than us. Eric Stoltz 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.640 was a year older than us. Anthony Edwards was a 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.640 year older than us. Oh Ali Shedy, do you remember her, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.480 she was a couple of years older than us. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.960 there's some. There was some great, great it was. It 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.800 was a great time to go there because there were 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.680 so many jobs for young kids. You know, they were 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.560 making tons of coming of age movies and television shows, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.919 and so I really I was very, very, very very 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:29.400 lucky to go there at that time for sure. What 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.040 was the first role you booked outside of school? Well, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.080 I got a I got a spear carrier at the 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.840 Lahoya Playhouse for for As You Like It. But while 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:45.400 I was carrying the spear for that production, I auditioned 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.159 for a movie called No Small Affair with John Cryer 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.040 and Danny Moore, and I had one line. I didn't 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.679 have a sad card, but one line, why don't you 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.159 take her to the bathroom? It was in reference it 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.480 was a bachelor party, and um it was a prostitute 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.080 or a stripper had come in and we were I 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.920 was encouraging him to take the stripper. Is this fantastic movie? 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.880 Very high class? I went from Shakespeare to why don't 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:18.399 you take her to the bathroom? Oh? My God, So 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.640 that was my very first SAG job. Yes, well you 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:29.560 you booked No Small Affair. Also Kevin Donaldson in Space Camp, 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:35.960 Luke Sinclair in Memphis Bell. Yes, do you remember that? 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.760 I just reminded you of something? By the way, I 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.640 can't remember. I can't remember either. At some point someone 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:43.119 told me they saw me in something and I was 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.280 convinced I'd never done it. Um, how are how are 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:51.439 you balancing school? And obviously I assume working on on 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.080 your craft and theater right and beginning to book some 0:18:55.160 --> 0:19:01.600 of these roles in in in Hollywood in quotes, it was, Um, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.280 it was a great time because I've never been so 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.959 busy in my life, so it's sort of trained me 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.000 to like multitask. And I was for a couple of 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.200 months there. I was just like or two years. Basically, 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.320 I was just killing myself either trying to get a 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.960 job and then doing my work. And you know, SC 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.960 is great because a lot of theater schools don't let 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.960 you work while you're going to them, and like Juilliard 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.320 and Jail or whatever, you know, but SC is very 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.679 encouraging of work, which sometimes they gave me credit for it, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.240 which was awesome. They'd give me like production credit instead 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.840 of you know, sewing buttons on costumes for you know, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.560 like they would give me. You know, I showed a 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.080 lot of television movie. Yeah yeah, I know, right, yeah, yeah, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.080 I know. It's so funny. Running Crew was like you know, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.520 doing lights for plays and stuff like that. Right. Did 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.879 you do multiple productions a year though at SC as 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.320 an actor. Yeah? That was another good thing about SC 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.399 is that they was it was it was. It was 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.320 just like constantly putting up a play somewhere, you know, 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.880 like a whether it's experimental play or a classic or 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.199 Elizabethan you know, like plays that you never hear of 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.280 or never produced, but you know, we're just doing them 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.000 and everyone is. You know. It wasn't like when I 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.840 was in college. I got the I think I got 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.560 one lead the entire four years in college. You know, 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.199 it's just like you're just sort of doing everything you 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.560 can and you're playing an eighty nine year old or 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.760 you're playing you know, an infanter, you know what I mean. 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.119 It's just sort of like crazy, just working hard every 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.120 weekend out late, breaking down sets, and you know, it's fantastic. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.640 It was really kind of kind of a group. I'm 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.680 so happy I had that experience, you know, just sort 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.760 of push yourself as far as you could. And yeah, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.760 it's funny how you look back and a lot of 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.960 those people aren't working in the business or but you 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.639 would never know, like you never know who's gonna make it, 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.480 or who's gonna who's going to be an actor, who's 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.520 gonna end up winning an Academy Award for you know, producing. Uh, 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:16.280 you know, it's crazy, it's crazy. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.639 it just occurred to me. I think for myself it 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.240 was always about theater for me initially, like that's really 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.920 what and it sounds like for you it was really 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:30.520 about about the experience of being an actor. And like 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.239 you talked about having sort of this epiphany even at 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.040 age four watching the screen, being like that's what I 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.239 want to do. It's it's I don't know. It's just 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.280 kind of striking me right now. And the fact that 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.520 you started to have experiences in film and television, you know, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.840 even while you were in school that you know, in 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.959 a large way becomes part of your training to right 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.679 and how important, how important that is. I've talked to 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.399 a lot of people on the podcast about about just 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:04.560 that like experience in front of a camera on a set, 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:09.800 how important that is, right, Yeah, I mean it's just 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:14.800 a there's no replacement, there's no class, there's no teacher, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:20.639 there's nothing that can prepare you for the you know, 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.879 waiting around for hours and hours and hours and then 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.440 getting to go right before lunch and you've got your 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:33.240 two lines that you've you know, this pressure and everybody 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.040 wants to go to lunch and they're just fucking miserable. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.480 They don't know who you are, and you're looking to 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.600 the director for some help and he doesn't give a 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:46.240 ship about about you and your motivations and actors coming 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:54.200 from and yeah, yeah, I know, it's just so funny. 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.560 It's it's yeah, just the attitude of the crew, which 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.639 is like, hey, man, I'm doing my job, you do yours, 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:01.560 Let's get out of here. You know, you're sort of 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:04.000 fun a response. And you know when you come from 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.239 theater school, I'm sure you had this experience where so 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.800 intense emotionally and get really close to everybody and the 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.640 director is really there to help you and discuss all 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:17.440 the ramifications and we need to do a fucking television job. 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.879 It's like nobody gives a ship. You're just like, collect 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.960 the paycheck, Pal, and let's get out of here. Yeah, no, 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:27.600 I hear you. It's it's a It is a crazy thing. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:31.479 It's like that right before lunch or that like end 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.679 of the day, the end of the day, and you 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.840 know they're already on a triple overtime. You're at our 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:42.239 fifteen and now you're expected to deliver and you've been 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.200 sitting around for fifteen hours not doing it, thinking about 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.199 your line, and suddenly they're like, stand here, here's the 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.399 camera there and go and you're like, what's my line again? 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.840 Where where am i? Yea? Or how about how about 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.639 when um there's the whole process of like shooting the 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.040 mass stir and then shooting the wide and then coming 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:05.640 around on the all the other actors, and then finally 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.359 five hours later the cameras on you and you have 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.679 no idea now what the scene what You're just like 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:16.760 a robot and you're not feeling anything, and you're just like, oh, 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:22.040 it's so. You know. What's interesting to me is that, Okay, 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.760 I've been doing it for forty years, right, and I 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:29.600