Speaker 1: I go into this room. It's really funny, and Ron
Speaker 1: and John are there, they're the two directors, and they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, and you know, you've got this
Speaker 1: microphone in front of you and they're sitting on a
Speaker 1: couch and it's sort of like a regular audition except
Speaker 1: for the microphone. And then they're like, anytime you're ready,
Speaker 1: just go ahead. And then they just bowed down their
Speaker 1: heads and closed their eyes as if, you know, they
Speaker 1: were praying or something like that. Like, you know, I
Speaker 1: was like, what, I had no idea, Like they didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't need to look at me at all. Hey,
Speaker 1: it's day Donovan, and I've been around a long time.
Speaker 1: You've probably seen me in something and you're probably gone,
Speaker 1: what's that guy's name? Yeah, I've seen him in other things. Hello,
Speaker 1: my friends, and welcome to yet another episode of Off
Speaker 1: the Beat. I am your excitable host, Brian bomb Partner.
Speaker 1: Now today's guest, as you just heard, is the amazing
Speaker 1: and very funny Tate Donovan. Now, Tate has taken on
Speaker 1: a huge range of roles. Everyone knows him, but I've
Speaker 1: noticed that fans seem to recognize him for something different
Speaker 1: depending on their age. I mean to give you a sense.
Speaker 1: He worked on The O C as Jimmy Cooper, otherwise
Speaker 1: known as the resident Dad facing embezzlement charges, which I
Speaker 1: assure you is a thing. He also guest starred on
Speaker 1: Friends for five episodes, was in Damages with Glenn Close.
Speaker 1: He was an Argo good Night and good Luck Manchester
Speaker 1: by the Sea, and you or your kids might even
Speaker 1: recognize his voice as the title character of Disney's Hercules
Speaker 1: in both the film and TV series. Tate has truly
Speaker 1: done it all. So today we're gonna get into those roles,
Speaker 1: Tate's directing career and how he has found common in
Speaker 1: a variety of genres, shows, and characters. This was such
Speaker 1: a pleasure for me, So without further at you, Kate Donovan,
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak, I love it Bubble and Squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker, Cookie, every moment left over from the Nabby.
Speaker 1: What's update, Brian? How are you? I'm great, man, I'm great.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be talking to you. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be talking to you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me. Here are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a huge fan. Well, listen, I'm a
Speaker 1: huge fan of yours as well. I'm I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: fan boying all over you today. I wanted to start, however,
Speaker 1: to go to go back before before I knew who
Speaker 1: you were. Remarkably, you grew up in Jersey. Is this right?
Speaker 1: You grew up in Jersey? Now at this point it
Speaker 1: was kind of a national pastime to make fun of
Speaker 1: Jersey when you were growing up. Did you have a
Speaker 1: complex about that or were you Oh? Yeah, I still do.
Speaker 1: I still do. I have a total complex. When everyone
Speaker 1: asked me like, where are you from, I'm like, outside
Speaker 1: of New York City. I can where, uh the New
Speaker 1: Jersey right right right across the George Washington Bridge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's so far. I used to lie about it
Speaker 1: all the time because you're right, I mean, growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, in the seventies, listening to Saturday Night Live,
Speaker 1: every joke was about how he's from New Jersey, you know, Rosanne,
Speaker 1: Zanna Dana. It was just like all the idiots were
Speaker 1: from New Jersey. It was like the cancer capital of
Speaker 1: the world. Everybody made fun like what eggs it? Are
Speaker 1: you from? In New Jersey? You know, like they didn't
Speaker 1: have towns or anything just exits off the turnpike. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm still a little I still I need a couple
Speaker 1: more sessions with my therapist and I should be ready
Speaker 1: to accept that I'm from the Jersey. Yeah, I but
Speaker 1: I'm told which is again, this is this is not
Speaker 1: what I would have expected that that you you never
Speaker 1: locked your doors as a child. There It's like it
Speaker 1: was it was it did you feel safe? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we never had a lock on our doors. Like when
Speaker 1: my parents finally sold the house, they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: can we have the keys? And they're like, we haven't
Speaker 1: seen keys in a hundred and fifty years. Um, we've
Speaker 1: never had keys. I remember one time we went away
Speaker 1: for vacation. We used to vacation out in Long Island,
Speaker 1: which is sort of like the second worst place to
Speaker 1: be from um and like the north Shore, not the
Speaker 1: beautiful Hamptons opposite. Yeah, we left our front door open
Speaker 1: for two weeks. Finally, our our next door neighbor was like, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, can I close your front door? It's been
Speaker 1: opened for two weeks. And I'm like we're like yeah, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I never locked a
Speaker 1: bike in my life, you never locked a bike. No,
Speaker 1: not until I went to college. Did you ever have
Speaker 1: a bike stolen? I guess this's then the next question. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know yeah, um borrowed, Yeah, borrowed. Yeah, like kids
Speaker 1: would take your bike, you know, and to mess with you.
Speaker 1: But you know it's never stolen. We always got it
Speaker 1: back and you know, yeah wow, but you know my
Speaker 1: first bike I was stolen was in New York City
Speaker 1: and I went up to audition and I have run
Speaker 1: up the stairs through audition. I locked my bike. It's
Speaker 1: like one of those kryptonite bikes, you know, like bike locks.
Speaker 1: It was like guaranteed. And I run up to the
Speaker 1: audition and that I find out it's not there. So
Speaker 1: I run back down. I must have been gone thirty
Speaker 1: five seconds and my bike was stolen. I was anyway,
Speaker 1: New York City, different place. Yeah, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: different place. You were the youngest of six kids. Now
Speaker 1: did you did you feel like you needed to do
Speaker 1: something to stand out as a child or were you
Speaker 1: were you? Were you all fairly close and well adjusted?
Speaker 1: Or I mean I'm asking more, when did you start performing?
Speaker 1: And I don't mean professionally, I mean, when did you
Speaker 1: feel like you started right? Yeah, well, um, at the
Speaker 1: age of four, I went to see a movie with
Speaker 1: my parents and I wanted to sit away from them.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be like an adult or I
Speaker 1: don't know, for some weird reason, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: be like independent. So I sat away from them. And
Speaker 1: it was a movie about medieval nights. I don't know
Speaker 1: what movie it was, but it was like st and
Speaker 1: I just looked up on that screen and I was like,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's what I want to do that
Speaker 1: for a living. I want to I want to be
Speaker 1: in a movie. And and what's interesting is that my
Speaker 1: next thought was, Wow, if I feel this way, everybody
Speaker 1: must feel this way, Like I must be really hard.
Speaker 1: You can't just waltz into that, you know. But I
Speaker 1: sort of had to keep that a secret because, um,
Speaker 1: I would do high school plays and and stuff like
Speaker 1: that all the time. But my parents were I came
Speaker 1: from a crazy group of kids. Like we weren't adjust
Speaker 1: well adjusted, let's just put it that way, Like besides murder,
Speaker 1: we basically committed every sin you could possibly do. It
Speaker 1: was like the sixties and seventies. It's just a crazy time.
Speaker 1: And teenagers in my family were just nutbags. So I
Speaker 1: was just sort of like conservative one and went into
Speaker 1: a theater and acting. So that's shows you how crazy
Speaker 1: my not politically conservative, but no lifestyle, lifestyle conservative. So
Speaker 1: you're just doing high school plays. But are you at
Speaker 1: that point, you know, you started four, you're doing high
Speaker 1: school plays. Are you still committed, like this is what
Speaker 1: you want to do? You were, you were an early
Speaker 1: you decided early what you wanted to do with your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. And and I remember hearing Meryl Street get
Speaker 1: interviewed and she said when she was in high school,
Speaker 1: she would pretend that she was already a professional actress
Speaker 1: and that she would get involved in every show like
Speaker 1: like like it was a job, like she needed the
Speaker 1: money and and so that's what I did. I was
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I'll take a small role here,
Speaker 1: I do I do? I have no lines in some
Speaker 1: play in the school musical. Uh, you know, I would
Speaker 1: just be on stage or whatever, you know, like carry
Speaker 1: a spear and then I'd be the lead and something
Speaker 1: else I was. I was just like I wanted to
Speaker 1: do it so badly, and I had to keep it
Speaker 1: a complete secret. It was it was, Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad was a doctor and my mother wanted me
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer or you know, something decent that
Speaker 1: required an education and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was heartbreaking for them when you made the decision. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I told him I I was in college. I
Speaker 1: told him I was going to a major in theater.
Speaker 1: And my dad literally for two and a half years,
Speaker 1: did not talk to me. Wow, he's he sent me
Speaker 1: articles from the New York Times about either how impossible
Speaker 1: it is to become an actor or like he'd sent
Speaker 1: these articles on these actors who just like became stars
Speaker 1: and never take an acting class in their life, you know,
Speaker 1: like he just thought it was a giant waste of
Speaker 1: you know, education to study theater. It's like the dumbest thing, right,
Speaker 1: And he may be right. Actually, wait, so you so
Speaker 1: you're your New York City adjacent so you're not you're
Speaker 1: you're not auditioning in the city. You're just doing school
Speaker 1: plays and trying to do that and kind of pretending
Speaker 1: to your parents have this was a hobby. And then
Speaker 1: how do you find because USC because I actually, you know,
Speaker 1: I applied to USC, was actually offered a scholarship, Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. I didn't go to USC, but I
Speaker 1: but that that was like it wasn't necessarily a conservatory
Speaker 1: training program, but but it was a significant program. How
Speaker 1: did you convince them if your scheme was to go
Speaker 1: to USC and eventually get into theater, how did you
Speaker 1: convince them to for you to even go to USC that? Well?
Speaker 1: I got into two colleges, n y U and USC,
Speaker 1: and I I they were sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: I was the last one, and they were sort of
Speaker 1: sick and tired of dealing with kids, and they were
Speaker 1: just like, okay, we'll do whatever you want. And I
Speaker 1: was general you know, uh general major when I first
Speaker 1: went there, Liberal arts or whatever. Yeah, yeah, liberal arts,
Speaker 1: and um I did a play and I fell in
Speaker 1: love with studying theater. I was just like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I gotta do this. And I quietly switched my major.
Speaker 1: And uh, my dad found out and hit the roof
Speaker 1: and just like we got in the biggest argument. But
Speaker 1: to his credit, I also had professors right to him
Speaker 1: and say, hey, Tate has a chance of making it
Speaker 1: in this business. He should he should study. And I
Speaker 1: always thought my dad ignored all of those letters, and
Speaker 1: but One of the more moving things was when my
Speaker 1: dad passed away and I went through his um his desk,
Speaker 1: I found this letter from one of my professors, John
Speaker 1: Blanket Ship at USC, and I just dissolved, you know,
Speaker 1: like obviously he he he listened to those letters and
Speaker 1: he ended up paying my tuition, which you know was
Speaker 1: a fraction of what it is now. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so he did it. And you know, fortunately
Speaker 1: I got work while I was going to college. I
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to get some jobs, and so he
Speaker 1: was like, well, maybe he'll make a living and yeah,
Speaker 1: where did you go to school? I went to s
Speaker 1: m U Southern Methodist University in Dallas. In Dallas, so
Speaker 1: at the time, it was a conservatory training program and
Speaker 1: that was sort of for me. That was what I
Speaker 1: was I was looking for. And you know, they had
Speaker 1: and I don't know if USC was going through some
Speaker 1: renovations at the time, but I've told this story before,
Speaker 1: never specifically to USC graduate. But I was from Atlanta,
Speaker 1: and so I I flew, we flew, me and my
Speaker 1: dad we flew to California and went to USC and
Speaker 1: went to the theater department office. I'm putting that in
Speaker 1: quote because it was a trailer. It was it was
Speaker 1: in a trailer, a trailer. It wasn't temporary. It was
Speaker 1: still there. It wasn't temporary. Hit hoole, right. So I
Speaker 1: went there and I met them, and I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, this is Los Angeles. And actually while we
Speaker 1: were there on that trip, I went to I still
Speaker 1: remember going with my dad to the old Grammins Chinese Well.
Speaker 1: We went to hard Rock Cafe, of course because we
Speaker 1: were from Atlanta, and we thought that's what you did.
Speaker 1: And then we went to Gramma's Chinese Theater and I
Speaker 1: saw Goodfellas. I don't know if that was when it
Speaker 1: was out or if it was a special showing shortly after.
Speaker 1: I would have to look at the day, but I
Speaker 1: know that's what I saw, a Gramins Chinese theater, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was so cool. And then I flew
Speaker 1: from Los Angeles to Dallas and walked into the theater
Speaker 1: department at s m U, which was about a thirty
Speaker 1: million dollar building with three fully functional thrust stage, a
Speaker 1: precenium stage, black box that was fully and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: let me see. I could go to a trailer are
Speaker 1: or I could stay here. And that was that was
Speaker 1: for me, a quick decision, and it was a little
Speaker 1: closer to Atlanta, which I think probably made my folks happy.
Speaker 1: But but but I was curious about this, knowing I
Speaker 1: was talking to you and you going to USC So
Speaker 1: you you did start auditioning, sort of getting into the
Speaker 1: business while you were in school, right, Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: lucked out. There was a girl in the class ahead
Speaker 1: of me who was doing an internship at a tiny
Speaker 1: talent agency called Contemporary Coreman Artists. And they said, they're
Speaker 1: They're like, are there any kids that in your school
Speaker 1: that are you know, you think you can work? And
Speaker 1: she was. She picked about four or five and we
Speaker 1: all went to their crappy little offices and uh in
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, and they signed me. And the other intern
Speaker 1: was a guy named David di Camillo and he, uh,
Speaker 1: he was just out of college and I was still
Speaker 1: in college. And he is still my agent. Four wow,
Speaker 1: some odd years later, I'm at gersh But I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think, this is nine eighty three or four, So
Speaker 1: what has it It's been forty years. Forty years, Yeah,
Speaker 1: forty years I've had the same agent. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: that is amazing? I know, it's incredible. I mean, I
Speaker 1: have a similar story. I have the same manager that
Speaker 1: I have when I moved to Los Angeles, not not
Speaker 1: quite that long. I think I've been through seventeen agents,
Speaker 1: just to be clear. Agents. I think probably had actually
Speaker 1: I never went to. But yes, I um, that's that's awesome.
Speaker 1: I love to hear that. But you were at school
Speaker 1: and you had some people I don't know if if
Speaker 1: they were accepted this agency, George Clooney, Grant Heslov who
Speaker 1: now have become longtime friends. Were you classes together? Were
Speaker 1: you in the actual the same class? Well, George wasn't.
Speaker 1: George wasn't at SC, but Grant, Grant and I were
Speaker 1: best friends in going to s C, and Grant one
Speaker 1: summer did a play with George and then they became
Speaker 1: with great friends. And then sort of like George and
Speaker 1: I became friends through Grant. Yeah, so I'm still great
Speaker 1: friends with Grant. I don't I don't really see George
Speaker 1: too much, but you know, we ever get a basketball
Speaker 1: game together, I'd love to be there. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Who else who else was in my class? Uh? Forest
Speaker 1: Whittaker was a two years older than us. Eric Stoltz
Speaker 1: was a year older than us. Anthony Edwards was a
Speaker 1: year older than us. Oh Ali Shedy, do you remember her,
Speaker 1: she was a couple of years older than us. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some. There was some great, great it was. It
Speaker 1: was a great time to go there because there were
Speaker 1: so many jobs for young kids. You know, they were
Speaker 1: making tons of coming of age movies and television shows,
Speaker 1: and so I really I was very, very, very very
Speaker 1: lucky to go there at that time for sure. What
Speaker 1: was the first role you booked outside of school? Well,
Speaker 1: I got a I got a spear carrier at the
Speaker 1: Lahoya Playhouse for for As You Like It. But while
Speaker 1: I was carrying the spear for that production, I auditioned
Speaker 1: for a movie called No Small Affair with John Cryer
Speaker 1: and Danny Moore, and I had one line. I didn't
Speaker 1: have a sad card, but one line, why don't you
Speaker 1: take her to the bathroom? It was in reference it
Speaker 1: was a bachelor party, and um it was a prostitute
Speaker 1: or a stripper had come in and we were I
Speaker 1: was encouraging him to take the stripper. Is this fantastic movie?
Speaker 1: Very high class? I went from Shakespeare to why don't
Speaker 1: you take her to the bathroom? Oh? My God, So
Speaker 1: that was my very first SAG job. Yes, well you
Speaker 1: you booked No Small Affair. Also Kevin Donaldson in Space Camp,
Speaker 1: Luke Sinclair in Memphis Bell. Yes, do you remember that?
Speaker 1: I just reminded you of something? By the way, I
Speaker 1: can't remember. I can't remember either. At some point someone
Speaker 1: told me they saw me in something and I was
Speaker 1: convinced I'd never done it. Um, how are how are
Speaker 1: you balancing school? And obviously I assume working on on
Speaker 1: your craft and theater right and beginning to book some
Speaker 1: of these roles in in in Hollywood in quotes, it was, Um,
Speaker 1: it was a great time because I've never been so
Speaker 1: busy in my life, so it's sort of trained me
Speaker 1: to like multitask. And I was for a couple of
Speaker 1: months there. I was just like or two years. Basically,
Speaker 1: I was just killing myself either trying to get a
Speaker 1: job and then doing my work. And you know, SC
Speaker 1: is great because a lot of theater schools don't let
Speaker 1: you work while you're going to them, and like Juilliard
Speaker 1: and Jail or whatever, you know, but SC is very
Speaker 1: encouraging of work, which sometimes they gave me credit for it,
Speaker 1: which was awesome. They'd give me like production credit instead
Speaker 1: of you know, sewing buttons on costumes for you know,
Speaker 1: like they would give me. You know, I showed a
Speaker 1: lot of television movie. Yeah yeah, I know, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. It's so funny. Running Crew was like you know,
Speaker 1: doing lights for plays and stuff like that. Right. Did
Speaker 1: you do multiple productions a year though at SC as
Speaker 1: an actor. Yeah? That was another good thing about SC
Speaker 1: is that they was it was it was. It was
Speaker 1: just like constantly putting up a play somewhere, you know,
Speaker 1: like a whether it's experimental play or a classic or
Speaker 1: Elizabethan you know, like plays that you never hear of
Speaker 1: or never produced, but you know, we're just doing them
Speaker 1: and everyone is. You know. It wasn't like when I
Speaker 1: was in college. I got the I think I got
Speaker 1: one lead the entire four years in college. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just like you're just sort of doing everything you
Speaker 1: can and you're playing an eighty nine year old or
Speaker 1: you're playing you know, an infanter, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's just sort of like crazy, just working hard every
Speaker 1: weekend out late, breaking down sets, and you know, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: It was really kind of kind of a group. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy I had that experience, you know, just sort
Speaker 1: of push yourself as far as you could. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny how you look back and a lot of
Speaker 1: those people aren't working in the business or but you
Speaker 1: would never know, like you never know who's gonna make it,
Speaker 1: or who's gonna who's going to be an actor, who's
Speaker 1: gonna end up winning an Academy Award for you know, producing. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's crazy, it's crazy. It's a lot of fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just occurred to me. I think for myself it
Speaker 1: was always about theater for me initially, like that's really
Speaker 1: what and it sounds like for you it was really
Speaker 1: about about the experience of being an actor. And like
Speaker 1: you talked about having sort of this epiphany even at
Speaker 1: age four watching the screen, being like that's what I
Speaker 1: want to do. It's it's I don't know. It's just
Speaker 1: kind of striking me right now. And the fact that
Speaker 1: you started to have experiences in film and television, you know,
Speaker 1: even while you were in school that you know, in
Speaker 1: a large way becomes part of your training to right
Speaker 1: and how important, how important that is. I've talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the podcast about about just
Speaker 1: that like experience in front of a camera on a set,
Speaker 1: how important that is, right, Yeah, I mean it's just
Speaker 1: a there's no replacement, there's no class, there's no teacher,
Speaker 1: there's nothing that can prepare you for the you know,
Speaker 1: waiting around for hours and hours and hours and then
Speaker 1: getting to go right before lunch and you've got your
Speaker 1: two lines that you've you know, this pressure and everybody
Speaker 1: wants to go to lunch and they're just fucking miserable.
Speaker 1: They don't know who you are, and you're looking to
Speaker 1: the director for some help and he doesn't give a
Speaker 1: ship about about you and your motivations and actors coming
Speaker 1: from and yeah, yeah, I know, it's just so funny.
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, just the attitude of the crew, which
Speaker 1: is like, hey, man, I'm doing my job, you do yours,
Speaker 1: Let's get out of here. You know, you're sort of
Speaker 1: fun a response. And you know when you come from
Speaker 1: theater school, I'm sure you had this experience where so
Speaker 1: intense emotionally and get really close to everybody and the
Speaker 1: director is really there to help you and discuss all
Speaker 1: the ramifications and we need to do a fucking television job.
Speaker 1: It's like nobody gives a ship. You're just like, collect
Speaker 1: the paycheck, Pal, and let's get out of here. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I hear you. It's it's a It is a crazy thing.
Speaker 1: It's like that right before lunch or that like end
Speaker 1: of the day, the end of the day, and you
Speaker 1: know they're already on a triple overtime. You're at our
Speaker 1: fifteen and now you're expected to deliver and you've been
Speaker 1: sitting around for fifteen hours not doing it, thinking about
Speaker 1: your line, and suddenly they're like, stand here, here's the
Speaker 1: camera there and go and you're like, what's my line again?
Speaker 1: Where where am i? Yea? Or how about how about
Speaker 1: when um there's the whole process of like shooting the
Speaker 1: mass stir and then shooting the wide and then coming
Speaker 1: around on the all the other actors, and then finally
Speaker 1: five hours later the cameras on you and you have
Speaker 1: no idea now what the scene what You're just like
Speaker 1: a robot and you're not feeling anything, and you're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's so. You know. What's interesting to me is that, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've been doing it for forty years, right, and I
Speaker 1: still no matter. I just thought by after forty years
Speaker 1: I would be more confident or more like relaxed, and
Speaker 1: I know the deal, but there's always something. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you find this too, Like, isn't there always something that
Speaker 1: trips you up and that you're like, oh ship, I
Speaker 1: didn't expect that. Oh Christ, I don't know what I'm doing?
Speaker 1: Who am I? What am I saying? What? You know? Like?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing to me how you never get it?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? You never at least I
Speaker 1: don't know. But Tate, I have, I have talked about this,
Speaker 1: and I I apologize. I everybody as listening has heard
Speaker 1: me say this, but you know, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: I'm saying it in a slightly different way. It says though,
Speaker 1: if you're a if you're a I don't know, a
Speaker 1: stockbroker or an accountant or a lawyer or something, and
Speaker 1: imagine every week going to a different office to do
Speaker 1: your job, like you know how to crunch these numbers.
Speaker 1: But as I have said, when you show up as
Speaker 1: a guest star on a show, you literally don't know
Speaker 1: where the bathroom is and you're confronted by a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty people who all know each other, and you
Speaker 1: don't know anyone's name, and everyone's introducing themselves a mile
Speaker 1: a minute, and you're like, I don't know, where's the
Speaker 1: sound guy again? And then if I can find him
Speaker 1: for my mike, what's his name? I forgot and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's Yeah. It's all set up for failure in
Speaker 1: that way, like there's a again every if it's a Friday,
Speaker 1: everybody has been working for sixty hours Monday through Thursday,
Speaker 1: and now you show up. No one's thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's let's give the new guy a break right there,
Speaker 1: Like no, we're a well oiled machine. You get you
Speaker 1: get in there and grind away and let's keep going. Now.
Speaker 1: It's very right. It actually gives me makes me feel
Speaker 1: good that you still feel it after four years. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, isn't it interesting, Like like I imagine
Speaker 1: when you worked on the office, Now that is like
Speaker 1: one of the great jobs of all time, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're working with people who are at the top level.
Speaker 1: The writing everything from from a viewer's point of view
Speaker 1: is like the best television can be. And you know,
Speaker 1: like I imagine for you because it's happened to me
Speaker 1: a couple of times when I've been involved with amazing people.
Speaker 1: You're sort of so used to just like getting through
Speaker 1: and surviving and just like you know, dealing with kind
Speaker 1: of crappy material that all of a sudden you're like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, I can take my time. Oh wow, like
Speaker 1: they do want me to put my two cents in
Speaker 1: or like what I say matters, or I'm dealing with
Speaker 1: really complicated material and and it's got you know, and
Speaker 1: there's real humor here, Like I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: then you have to make the lead to greatness, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it's interesting. I don't know, I'm be curious that
Speaker 1: what your experience was getting that job and and then
Speaker 1: working with such great, amazing people. Yeah, I mean I think, Look,
Speaker 1: I think that the hugely unique thing that that of course,
Speaker 1: it's very obvious when you think about it, is you know,
Speaker 1: you've been in shows with varying degrees of being the
Speaker 1: lead or not the lead. And you know, typically on
Speaker 1: television shows, you have the number one on the call
Speaker 1: sheet who's there for twelve to fourteen hours a day,
Speaker 1: and everybody else comes in a day or two and
Speaker 1: you do your scenes and and you move on. You know,
Speaker 1: for us, we were all there all the time, so
Speaker 1: that was a wholly unique situation where because the cameras
Speaker 1: moving around, because we are all essentially you know, a
Speaker 1: part of every single scene, whether it's a look or
Speaker 1: you know anything, we were all there. So that time,
Speaker 1: that consistent time of us all being together brought something
Speaker 1: totally different. And I think that while we did, you know,
Speaker 1: the joke was I don't know if this was totally
Speaker 1: true by the end. You know, usually it takes an
Speaker 1: hour for a lighting set up and then you you
Speaker 1: shoot the scene in fifteen minutes. Right on our show,
Speaker 1: typically it was the reverse, and and that that you're
Speaker 1: very astute to point that out. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the lighting was not a big deal. Let's just roll
Speaker 1: the cameras and and and play, which I think give
Speaker 1: you know, gave up. We were the ones who were
Speaker 1: there a lot of confidence. But you know, I talked
Speaker 1: to Amy Ryan on the podcast. You know, Oscar Nominee
Speaker 1: could not be a more fantastic actress who talked about
Speaker 1: walking into that room for the first time to be
Speaker 1: on the show and feeling incredibly uncomfortable and nervous because
Speaker 1: of that time we were all there. Everybody, everybody's ass
Speaker 1: had warned up you know, a dent, accustomed dent in
Speaker 1: the seats right like there was there was, there was
Speaker 1: nothing fake. We had all just sort of been there
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I think I think that made it
Speaker 1: different for for people in another way. But yeah, the
Speaker 1: freedom to play, and particularly the freedom to play with
Speaker 1: great material, you know, was it was Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a gift for sure. Yeah, to be on a great team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your first leading role came alongside Sandra Bullock in Love
Speaker 1: Potion Number nine. How did that come about? It was
Speaker 1: that a continuation of momentum or was that, you know,
Speaker 1: an audition situation that that just became that just went
Speaker 1: really well. That was just an audition that went really well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was in New York and uh, I just took
Speaker 1: the train into. I was out in Long Island and
Speaker 1: I took the train in and and it was really funny.
Speaker 1: I did the audition and I left and I was
Speaker 1: walking down I don't know if it was like twenty
Speaker 1: three Street or something like that, and I had just
Speaker 1: read that people who hear their name in every sound
Speaker 1: it's a sign of narcissism, you know, like a serious narcissism.
Speaker 1: You're like, you think everyone's talking to you or whatever,
Speaker 1: or like a car horn and you hear your name.
Speaker 1: So I kept hearing my name, but I kept what
Speaker 1: I was like, don't be a narcissist. State come on,
Speaker 1: she used to keep going and nobody's calling you, And
Speaker 1: sure enough it was the director leaning down, like six
Speaker 1: flights down going day. Finally looked up and he's like,
Speaker 1: come on, come back up. So I went back up
Speaker 1: and I redid the scene, and uh it was hilarious. Yeah, Dale, donor,
Speaker 1: iill never forget, like, you know, thinking that, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm a narcissist that in fact, it was the
Speaker 1: one time that I wasn't a narcissist. It was true.
Speaker 1: What was that like? Having that first experiences as being
Speaker 1: a leading man on film? It was great. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know I like to work, right, I mean, you
Speaker 1: and I both like to work, So being asked to
Speaker 1: come to work every day it's fantastic, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you just get these great relationships. And you know, Sandy
Speaker 1: is like one of the great human beings to work with.
Speaker 1: I mean, she is so generous and so she's so
Speaker 1: concerned about the extra is about craft service. She's so
Speaker 1: concerned about everyone else on the set, and I haven't
Speaker 1: worked with her since, but I hear she's still the
Speaker 1: same way that you know, she's you know, she fights
Speaker 1: for you know, if if she sees somebody being mistreated
Speaker 1: on the set, she stops everything, and you know, uh,
Speaker 1: and that that's the way she was in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: I think we shot that yeah, so but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, you know, none of us knew,
Speaker 1: you know, that she was going to be such a
Speaker 1: huge star. I mean she was great, and she was gorgeous.
Speaker 1: She's so beautiful, and she acted like a woman who
Speaker 1: never was told that she was beautiful her whole you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. She she has this sort of
Speaker 1: very humble way of like she doesn't act like a
Speaker 1: gorgeous woman at all. She acts like a kind of
Speaker 1: the ugly duckling best friend kind of you know role.
Speaker 1: But I think that's why, you know, she's so appealing
Speaker 1: as an actress. Yeah, no, she's fantastic. And my co
Speaker 1: worker Oscar Nuoni has has had the opportunity to work
Speaker 1: with her a couple of times and says equally nice,
Speaker 1: uh and generous things about her. I do want to
Speaker 1: go in a in a slightly different direction briefly, because
Speaker 1: I have from the beginning of time, I never would
Speaker 1: have thought this. From the beginning of moving to Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: you're sort of told it's really, really difficult to be
Speaker 1: an actor and to get roles. It's twenty five times
Speaker 1: more difficult to be a voice actor in Hollywood because
Speaker 1: you're not seeing and there's no exclusivity and casting voice
Speaker 1: casting directors and directors of voice work. They want to
Speaker 1: work with the same people who they know they can
Speaker 1: get in in an hour and get their job done.
Speaker 1: You began voicing quite a long time ago, now, Greek
Speaker 1: demigod Hercules. You did the Disney film, you did the
Speaker 1: animated You've done you know, my friend Cary Peyton, I
Speaker 1: talked to him about his He's been doing teen Titans
Speaker 1: in one way or another for I think over twenty
Speaker 1: years now. How did how did you get into that?
Speaker 1: And and and do you do you enjoy that work
Speaker 1: of creating a character through just your voice? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, who doesn't. But um And that's where
Speaker 1: the my theater training really came in Handy was just
Speaker 1: relying on your voice. But you know, I got Hercules
Speaker 1: just the old fashioned way. I'll never forget walking into
Speaker 1: that because Aladdin had just been a huge hit, and
Speaker 1: so suddenly everybody kind of thought, you know, voice acting
Speaker 1: was like no, no stars did voice acting, and they
Speaker 1: didn't do animation. They just let other actors do that.
Speaker 1: But Robin Williams was the first guy to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm star, I'm gonna do this amazing job. And it
Speaker 1: like everybody in the world like suddenly wanted to to
Speaker 1: do a voice actor for Disney. And I remember walking
Speaker 1: into that audition and just being so bummed out because
Speaker 1: in the waiting room was Key for Sutherland, Rob Low,
Speaker 1: all these huge stars at the time, and I I,
Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't I hadn't actually worked in the
Speaker 1: year before I got Hercules, I earned fifteen thousand dollars. Uh.
Speaker 1: For the whole year, I I could not get a job,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, God, damn, I'm never gonna
Speaker 1: get this, I mean, you know whatever. So I go
Speaker 1: into this room. It's really funny, and Ron and John
Speaker 1: are there, they're the two directors, and they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, and you know, you've got this
Speaker 1: microphone in front of you, and they're sitting on a
Speaker 1: couch and it's sort of like a regular audition except
Speaker 1: for the microphone. And then they're like, anytime you're ready,
Speaker 1: just go ahead. And then they just bowed down their
Speaker 1: heads and closed their eyes as if, you know, they
Speaker 1: were praying or something like that. Like you know, I
Speaker 1: was like, what, I had no idea, Like they didn't
Speaker 1: they didn't need to look at me at all, Like
Speaker 1: it's funny. But so I was just like taking it back,
Speaker 1: and I thought they were gonna like lead in prayer
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, like it was like Disney
Speaker 1: maybe it's a really Christian organization, you know. So I
Speaker 1: waited and they sort of like we're you know, had
Speaker 1: their heads down and eyes closed, and then they sort
Speaker 1: of looked up and they're like anytime you're ready, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's how it started. And yeah, I mean that was
Speaker 1: just a gift, that job that was just so much
Speaker 1: fun and working with people who had you know, when
Speaker 1: you worked with Disney Animation, you were working with animators
Speaker 1: that had been doing their job for like thirty years,
Speaker 1: you know, like when we're working on television shows, you know,
Speaker 1: the guys just became a prop guy, you know, like
Speaker 1: six months ago on his first show. This is is
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Everyone's very you know, they're
Speaker 1: young and they're just getting into things, and but these
Speaker 1: guys were like masters, and they had been doing it
Speaker 1: for deck aids and uh, it was really um it
Speaker 1: was an honor for sure. I knew then. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really special, man, you know, this is this
Speaker 1: is really cool. Did you know when you left the room.
Speaker 1: Did you know when you left the room that you
Speaker 1: had that you No, no, no, they just lifted their
Speaker 1: heads and said thank you. Oh yeah yeah, They're like
Speaker 1: thank you, Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I don't know. I very rarely know, do you do
Speaker 1: You have you had that experience a lot where you're like,
Speaker 1: I got this yeah, yeah, no, And I'm being I'm
Speaker 1: being I'm saying it. I'm saying it now. I have
Speaker 1: been I have been wrong as well. But no, I know,
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, maybe part of it is, and certainly
Speaker 1: you do comedy. We'll talk about that in a second.
Speaker 1: But I think I've been so heavily, heavily in the
Speaker 1: in the in the comedy world. I think that there's
Speaker 1: more there's more sort of in the room feedback. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the laughter, yeah, the left yeah, and you can
Speaker 1: you can just I don't know. I just I feel
Speaker 1: like I can kind of feel it. I mean, it
Speaker 1: doesn't always go my way, but when I leave, I
Speaker 1: I oftentimes know, yeah, they're not interested in me, or
Speaker 1: yeah I think I'm in the mix, or or this
Speaker 1: is yeah, this is this is definitely know when they're
Speaker 1: not interested. That is, you do it one time and
Speaker 1: they're like, thank you for coming in in a bland
Speaker 1: voice and you're like, yeah, you know what I get,
Speaker 1: I get a lot is um, you're a very good actor.
Speaker 1: Then I'm like, ah, I'm screwed, you know, because like
Speaker 1: if they're if they're complimenting you as an actor, they're
Speaker 1: just trying to make you feel better that you've definitely
Speaker 1: not gotten this role. Right. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1: I haven't talked to anybody about this before, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you've done such a diverse range of projects. When you
Speaker 1: are given a script and you're not offered it, you
Speaker 1: you you need to go in an audition and you know,
Speaker 1: for one reason or another that you are not going
Speaker 1: to to get it, not because not because you aren't
Speaker 1: right for it. But does that happen, like I don't
Speaker 1: even know exactly. Do you go in or do you
Speaker 1: just say no, Yes, I go in because my agent,
Speaker 1: David d says, don't turn down offers, don't turn down auditions,
Speaker 1: and I fought against that for years. But I go
Speaker 1: in anyway, because once I started directing, I realized you
Speaker 1: should always go in because actors don't know necessarily what
Speaker 1: they bring to something. And even though on the page
Speaker 1: it's like totally not you. The director maybe looking for
Speaker 1: something that isn't on the page, you know, he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I want to go to the opposite way.
Speaker 1: So so always go in, Always put it, you know,
Speaker 1: going for the audition. At least I do, even though
Speaker 1: it's difficult to audition and a lot of work and
Speaker 1: you know you're going to get a lot of rejection,
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, that's interesting. I think that's great
Speaker 1: advice because you never know, you never know, you know,
Speaker 1: you never know. Around this time you start doing some
Speaker 1: guest star roles, we talked about how difficult it is
Speaker 1: on on a few very very high profile shows, first
Speaker 1: Ally McBeal with Calista Flockhart and then of course on Friends,
Speaker 1: you appear in several episodes of season four. You're at
Speaker 1: this point, Friends is a gigantic hit. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is this is the biggest show on television, and you
Speaker 1: have that opportunity to talk to me a little bit
Speaker 1: about your process of of going in and being cast
Speaker 1: on on Friends. Well, Friends was interesting because I I
Speaker 1: had done a sitcom with two writers that had left
Speaker 1: Friends and with John Cryer called Partners, which was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun, but it got canned after one year.
Speaker 1: But while while I was doing it, the writers were like,
Speaker 1: do you know Jennifer Aniston? And I'm like, yeah, she's
Speaker 1: on Friends. You know, yeah, yeah, I know her, Rachel,
Speaker 1: And they're like, you should you she's single and you're single.
Speaker 1: You guys should meet. So we went out on a
Speaker 1: date and we hit it off and we ended up
Speaker 1: dating for I don't know, gosh two or three years,
Speaker 1: and um, you know. So I would go to the
Speaker 1: Friends set all the time. Uh, you know, I was
Speaker 1: there every taping and that was so much fun to
Speaker 1: watch watch those guys go. I mean, they were like,
Speaker 1: they were such an amazing team, and to be behind
Speaker 1: the scenes and see them work, Uh, was just so
Speaker 1: much fun. And I knew some of the directors, and
Speaker 1: I knew the a d and it was just like
Speaker 1: a family. It was so much fun. Every Friday we'd
Speaker 1: go up there and I'd go and watch the taping
Speaker 1: and it was a blast. So Jen and I are
Speaker 1: are breaking up, and literally like two days after, nobody
Speaker 1: knew that we were breaking up. Two days after the
Speaker 1: breaking up to it's a process to break to break up,
Speaker 1: you're going through. Well, we were living together, we were
Speaker 1: living together, and I decided I was gonna move out,
Speaker 1: So I moved out and I found a new place,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was it was heartbreaking and awful
Speaker 1: and miserable, but no one knew. They all thought we
Speaker 1: were still living together and still dating, and but it
Speaker 1: was sort of kept it close to the vest. And um,
Speaker 1: the producers called me and they're like, you know, we
Speaker 1: would love to have you on the show for like
Speaker 1: a five episode arc. And I was like, oh god,
Speaker 1: this is And then I thought, mistakenly, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: maybe this will if we work together, maybe it'll sort
Speaker 1: of ease the breakup, Like we'll still to get to
Speaker 1: see each other and we'll, you know, maybe this would
Speaker 1: be a good thing. To to work together, and I
Speaker 1: was I was totally wrong. It was cool, It was
Speaker 1: very it was very It was very difficult to uh
Speaker 1: to work and be like, you know, in a comedic
Speaker 1: scene with somebody who you're breaking up with. This you know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty tough. But you know, at the end of it,
Speaker 1: I realized, hey, I'm I'm a pro. You know. Once again,
Speaker 1: my therapist really helped me get through that, and he's like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're a pro if you can, if you can still
Speaker 1: do your job with a woman who's you know, your
Speaker 1: heart is breaking. So that's good that I was. I
Speaker 1: did not specifically know the ins and outs of the
Speaker 1: or the timing of that situation. That sounds really difficult.
Speaker 1: That sounds really but yeah, it's funny. Most people are like, um,
Speaker 1: I think that we met there, like if they know
Speaker 1: that we're dated for a period of time, they think
Speaker 1: that we met there, but in fact we we sort
Speaker 1: of ended it there. Wow. Well, well that it must
Speaker 1: have been easier for you, you you know, in a sense
Speaker 1: working on this mega hit showed they you were sort
Speaker 1: of familiar at least that part would be very difficult,
Speaker 1: but you were sort of familiar with the surroundings and
Speaker 1: knew everybody else sort of involved. I'm sure Jimmy Burrows
Speaker 1: and and you know everyone else. Yeah. Yeah, And the
Speaker 1: cast was so sweet to me. They were they were
Speaker 1: so great because they kind of knew they found out
Speaker 1: and they were awesome to me. I mean those guys,
Speaker 1: every single one of them were incredibly supportive. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: I Uh, I first became really familiar with you. I
Speaker 1: don't think we met at this time, but I had
Speaker 1: a young friend who had who had started the business,
Speaker 1: Chris Carmack, who was on The o C. And you
Speaker 1: play what you have described as TV's worst dad ever. Uh,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Cooper on the o C. Give me
Speaker 1: three words to describe Jimmy Cooper. Let's see, Uh, mildly corrupt.
Speaker 1: I guess that's two, but okay, that's fine. That counts
Speaker 1: is one negligent father and affable, like he's like one
Speaker 1: of these kind of crazy characters who's like super nice guy,
Speaker 1: great guy, but just was a negligent father and kind
Speaker 1: of you know, didn't mind bilking his customers and being
Speaker 1: sort of like a horribly corrupt financially because he was
Speaker 1: a nice guy. He was like, you know, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's a very interesting character to play, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's funny. And and the producers had no idea that
Speaker 1: he was a terrible father. That was the interesting thing.
Speaker 1: That's when I heard Stephanie Savage. They didn't. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't. And and years years later, there was an
Speaker 1: article in like People magazine or US Weekly or something
Speaker 1: like that, and it said the five worst fathers on
Speaker 1: televisi and I was one of them. I was like
Speaker 1: number two. And I find I sent it to them
Speaker 1: and I'm like, do you guys see what you're what
Speaker 1: I've been saying? And really, I think Jimmy's great. That's
Speaker 1: crazy because he's affable. I guess that's why. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because he's nice. He's a funny guy. He's a good guy.
Speaker 1: He's not a bad dad. I guess they didn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't have kids at the time, so they didn't realize
Speaker 1: that being holy negligent and saying to your daughter, I've
Speaker 1: got to go to Hawaii to be a better father.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most ridiculous lines in television history. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think about that often now. I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever said anything like this on the show. But I do.
Speaker 1: I do have a running joke about shows where there
Speaker 1: are adult characters with children. That's sometimes for four or
Speaker 1: five episodes at the time, the children mysteriously disappear. They don't,
Speaker 1: you're not, you're not. We're not focused on the children.
Speaker 1: And so I guess they thinking is we just forgot
Speaker 1: they had them for a little while. But if you
Speaker 1: have kids, you know, it's an omnipresent part. Whether you're
Speaker 1: negligent or not, they're still in your on your mind
Speaker 1: or you got to pick them up from softball or something. Right,
Speaker 1: it's like twenty four hour thing. Like if you have
Speaker 1: a kid, it's just like forget. Your whole life's changed everything,
Speaker 1: like no matter what, And uh, you're right. I know.
Speaker 1: It's funny how these characters on television could just be
Speaker 1: like they just appear. And I figured they just appear
Speaker 1: every once in a while, the kids because they're under
Speaker 1: eighteen and they can't take ours, you know or not.
Speaker 1: The kids I know, and the tutors and the stuff.
Speaker 1: So how is this for you? You know, you you
Speaker 1: talked earlier about it being a good time for you
Speaker 1: when you started at USC because they were looking at
Speaker 1: a lot of coming of age stories and young actors.
Speaker 1: So now suddenly you're a dad, and by the way,
Speaker 1: you're a very young father to the age of these children.
Speaker 1: Let's be clear about that at this time. But how
Speaker 1: is that, how is that shift for you, um to
Speaker 1: now become become the grown up? Well, I mean, now
Speaker 1: I've been a grown up for a long time, I know,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean beginning to get those roles as
Speaker 1: like now you're the Now you're the dad, You're no
Speaker 1: longer the young Now now I'm the grandfather. Well so
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, I'm my grandfather now. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's uh, you know, I had a kid very
Speaker 1: late in life. I sort of wish I could go
Speaker 1: back to some of those early father roles and sort
Speaker 1: of like change the moment. I didn't have kids when
Speaker 1: I was doing doing the o C. But my sister
Speaker 1: had three kids and she'd call me up every week
Speaker 1: and just say, what are you doing? You're the worst dad.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, you got to talk to those people.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, I mean I think I would like to.
Speaker 1: I'd like to revisit some of those roles for sure,
Speaker 1: because you know, as you know, it's sort of like
Speaker 1: everything changes when you're when you have kids. It's uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great. The o C. It's where you started directing.
Speaker 1: What was this? Was this something you always knew that
Speaker 1: you wanted to do or or did the opportunity just
Speaker 1: present itself once you were on that show? Because I
Speaker 1: and by the way, so full disclosure, I started directing
Speaker 1: on the Office as well. That was my directoral debut.
Speaker 1: So I understand once you're in and you get to
Speaker 1: know producers and they sort of see you have an
Speaker 1: eye for something, It's it's much easier than to just,
Speaker 1: you know, go to the network and try to get
Speaker 1: them to hire you want to show You're not on.
Speaker 1: But was that something you always wanted to do or
Speaker 1: did the opportunity present itself and you thought it might
Speaker 1: be fun? Yeah? No, I was. I was always the
Speaker 1: kind of actor that hung out by the monitors and
Speaker 1: got to know directors and the crew, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't hang out at my trailer. I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not a I don't really have much of
Speaker 1: an other life when I'm at work. I'm just sort
Speaker 1: of there and you know, like hanging out of craft service,
Speaker 1: you know, like chatting people up. Um, so I was
Speaker 1: very interested in and the part, you know, Jimmy Cooper
Speaker 1: was kind of a small part, and I didn't really
Speaker 1: work enough for for for my taste, you know, one
Speaker 1: or two days a week, and I was like, God,
Speaker 1: this is boring. I want to do something. So I
Speaker 1: started shadowing and I was shocked. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: much fun. I mean, I was so excited. I was
Speaker 1: there for first rehearsal, all the the all the location
Speaker 1: scouts and the casting meetings and the tone meeting. I
Speaker 1: don't remember the tone meeting like your first tone meeting.
Speaker 1: I mean, that is the most exciting meeting I've ever
Speaker 1: been to. I mean, for for those of you who
Speaker 1: don't know what a tone meeting is, it's when the
Speaker 1: producer and writer of the episode sits down with the
Speaker 1: director and goes seen by scene like, Hey, this is
Speaker 1: what we're doing with this character, this is what we
Speaker 1: need here. Uh, this character is heading in this direction,
Speaker 1: that character is heading in the other direction. And you
Speaker 1: get the inside scoop and they're like, okay, so this actor,
Speaker 1: he's a real pain in the ass and he's not
Speaker 1: going to know his line. So you have to do
Speaker 1: this or whatever. You know, you get, you get your
Speaker 1: and you're shocked. It's sort of like listening to your
Speaker 1: parents talk about your siblings, you know, listening to the
Speaker 1: door of their bedroom. You know, you're just like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe they know that. You know, Jimmy smokes pot.
Speaker 1: You know, we know he smokes pot. You know, it's like, oh, Ship.
Speaker 1: So I just was fully enamored. And I'll always love
Speaker 1: of the people of the OC for giving me a
Speaker 1: shot at directing, because it was so exciting and it
Speaker 1: made me sort of fall in love with acting all
Speaker 1: over again. I don't know if you had that experience.
Speaker 1: Did you have that experience where you know, you're sort
Speaker 1: of like acting schmack ing and then you direct and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, actors they're so important. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have a great actor, you can just take it easy.
Speaker 1: As a director, you're just like I just put the
Speaker 1: camera on or from you know, and when you don't
Speaker 1: have a good actor, you're like, oh, Ship, what are
Speaker 1: we gonna do here? You know, you gotta like a
Speaker 1: massage it with the camera, and you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just fell in love with acting again. How what
Speaker 1: was your experience. Yeah, I mean again, I think I
Speaker 1: mean you're one. You're so right about the tone meeting,
Speaker 1: and you become aware of what everyone is aware of
Speaker 1: that maybe you think you're the only one that sees
Speaker 1: it it or that it's you know, something that's not spoken.
Speaker 1: You know, for us on the office specifically, you know
Speaker 1: there was because, as I discussed earlier, we were all
Speaker 1: there all the time, and because I like you, it
Speaker 1: appears enjoy the process. It's not like I went and
Speaker 1: hid in my trailer like I was watching if I
Speaker 1: wasn't on set for a brief period of time. And
Speaker 1: so there was there were no real surprises in that regard.
Speaker 1: There were some there were some tips to achieve maybe
Speaker 1: certain things that that we would need to get for
Speaker 1: that specific episode. You know, we had the DP and
Speaker 1: one other camera person who had been there forever, and
Speaker 1: that felt like I was going to be heavily covered.
Speaker 1: I think for me, the thing on the Office that
Speaker 1: was the most fun and required the most time was
Speaker 1: every single scene there was a discussion about how to
Speaker 1: what degree the camera was present or not, and the
Speaker 1: awareness of the camera for all of the characters there,
Speaker 1: and that I loved. I mean being a part of
Speaker 1: those conversations, and specifically that episode that that I directed.
Speaker 1: There was there was a potential of flirtation with Jim
Speaker 1: with another character and to what degree do we pass
Speaker 1: the line of people getting mad at us because of
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam and anyway that kind of stuff was
Speaker 1: was was really fun for me and and being able to, yeah,
Speaker 1: to work with other actors. I mean, I had done
Speaker 1: quite a bit of directing but in theater before that.
Speaker 1: But I loved it. And it sounds like you as
Speaker 1: you said, you really did. You went on to direct,
Speaker 1: I mean a ton of shows, a few Niptuck, Weeds,
Speaker 1: Gossip Girl, Glee. Do you you said it made you
Speaker 1: fall in love with acting again? Do you do you
Speaker 1: now prefer acting or or directing? Well? I kind of
Speaker 1: love them both, you know, I mean, directing is uh.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I just hope and pray I
Speaker 1: get to do both for the rest of my days.
Speaker 1: But you know, directing is so much more work, but
Speaker 1: you get to use so much more of your brain.
Speaker 1: I mean, to go in an editing room, I mean
Speaker 1: that is so exciting and fun and just being on
Speaker 1: set and I don't know, I mean, I just I
Speaker 1: just love it. And but also acting is great. I
Speaker 1: mean you're generally paid better, and um, you have such
Speaker 1: an easier life. I mean really all you have to
Speaker 1: do is memorize your lines and uh, you know, have
Speaker 1: a couple of ideas about what you want to do,
Speaker 1: and it's definitely an easier life. You know, you're there
Speaker 1: for a couple of hours and you take off, and
Speaker 1: everybody treats you so nicely when you're an actor. Have
Speaker 1: you noticed that? But then you know, like when you're
Speaker 1: a guest director, like they care less about you, just
Speaker 1: like you're on your own. Man. It's hilarious, It's really funny.
Speaker 1: I loved Damages. I was a huge fan of Damages. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Glenn Close, someone who I had worked with very peripherally
Speaker 1: many years before, who I think is just a genius. Jakavonik. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I loved him so much. And I understand
Speaker 1: you're working on that. You directed some episodes there. You
Speaker 1: learned a lot about directing from Glenn Close, I understand.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about that. Well, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a classic classic story. Well, basically, I was directing my
Speaker 1: first episode and there were a couple of days where
Speaker 1: Glenn wasn't on the set. So the first three days
Speaker 1: or first two days were without Glenn and things were
Speaker 1: going well, but everyone was sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: Glenn does not She's brilliant and she's the smartest person
Speaker 1: on the set, including the directors and producers. She's just
Speaker 1: like has a nose in an instinct that is just
Speaker 1: powerful and she really tracks everything. Um So, everyone was like,
Speaker 1: how it's gonna be with Glenn when Glenn gets on
Speaker 1: the set, Let's see how you do. You know, you're
Speaker 1: doing fine now, but trust me, when number one gets
Speaker 1: on the set. Um So, I was you know, it
Speaker 1: was my first episode, so you know, when you're when
Speaker 1: you're just starting out, you've got so many ideas you've
Speaker 1: been thinking about it. So Junior so ampt, you know.
Speaker 1: And and so we sit down for rehearsal and it's
Speaker 1: in this nail salon kind of scene with with Rose,
Speaker 1: and I am just so excited and I'm like, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna put the camera here, and so you're gonna
Speaker 1: be sitting there and Rose is gonna be there, and
Speaker 1: and we're gonna put the camera here and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna move it and then down, and she goes shut up,
Speaker 1: shut up, shut up, in front of the whole set,
Speaker 1: and she just lays into me, and I am like
Speaker 1: completely humiliated and like shut down, and I slink back
Speaker 1: to my director's chair in front of the monitors and
Speaker 1: and I'm like action, you know, I'm totally petrified I've
Speaker 1: ruined everything. And then she proceeds to give me a
Speaker 1: performance that is nothing I even thought of. And I
Speaker 1: didn't need to explain anything to her or move the
Speaker 1: camera or do anything. I just need to turn the
Speaker 1: camera on and off. And like, she gave me more
Speaker 1: than I could have possibly imagined. And so we we
Speaker 1: finished out the day, and you know, my feelings were hurt,
Speaker 1: but you know, I suck it up. And she came
Speaker 1: to me a couple of days later and she's like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I yelled at you in front of everybody.
Speaker 1: But I just feel like when actors direct, they talk
Speaker 1: too much, and you have to trust your actors. You know,
Speaker 1: they don't trust they're actors as much, and and that
Speaker 1: is such an important lesson to learn, especially if you're
Speaker 1: an actor. I mean, I don't know if you found that,
Speaker 1: but because you want to do it, for them, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and you have to let them
Speaker 1: do it. And uh, it's it's a you know, you
Speaker 1: know how you would do the line, but you have
Speaker 1: to let them. Only they can say the line. And
Speaker 1: what they're gonna bring is going to be so much
Speaker 1: better than what you're imagining in your in your you know,
Speaker 1: on your desk four days ago, know what I mean?
Speaker 1: That's right, well, it is and it has to be
Speaker 1: to be truly great. A collaborative process, I mean that
Speaker 1: that's what that's what elevates it, right, I mean, you
Speaker 1: have geniuses who are visionaries and do things completely their
Speaker 1: own unique way, right, So like the Cohen Brothers or
Speaker 1: something right where where they are creating a world and
Speaker 1: a way of talking that exists wholly and uniquely to them. However,
Speaker 1: they still use the actors to collaborate with them by
Speaker 1: creating characters that have to be richer than what they
Speaker 1: had envisioned, even them. And I think that that's what's
Speaker 1: so important, that that that collaboration happens, and that directors
Speaker 1: allow that collaboration to happen, because if all the actors
Speaker 1: are doing, are is just fulfilling a vision that's already
Speaker 1: pre pre pre created. I literally just made that up.
Speaker 1: God dang, I'm pre created, precreated. Then what are we? Yeah,
Speaker 1: then then you might you literally might as well hire
Speaker 1: a monkey like you know, like that, you know, but
Speaker 1: if you're going to allow the actor there to bring
Speaker 1: their own unique set of skills, I think that's really smart.
Speaker 1: Though I'm sorry you got humiliated. That sounds I don't
Speaker 1: know her, that sounds terrifying. Yeah, but she's you know,
Speaker 1: she's great. I mean, listen, she turned around and and
Speaker 1: got me my first She went to John Landgraf, who's
Speaker 1: the head of f X, and just said, hey, take
Speaker 1: Donovan is uh you know a great director. You should
Speaker 1: hire him. And he went on to, you know, hire
Speaker 1: me for the first jobs that I got outside of
Speaker 1: shows that I was acting in. So I owe a
Speaker 1: lot to her, for sure. But you know, when you're
Speaker 1: talking about the collaboration and the pre creation and that
Speaker 1: directors have, I um, that's why you know a lot
Speaker 1: of people are like, aren't you scared that? You know,
Speaker 1: people are just gonna be able to sample actors and
Speaker 1: be able to like a, I will be able to
Speaker 1: make a film that's better than any director. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I always think that I'm not really worried
Speaker 1: about that because because it's got to take a bunch
Speaker 1: of different you know, like a a director and an actor,
Speaker 1: sort of scuffling over a scene is sort of the
Speaker 1: best thing possible, you know what I mean, Like when
Speaker 1: you get to oppose, like I don't see the scene
Speaker 1: that way, I see it this way, and and the
Speaker 1: way they come together and the way it ends up shooting,
Speaker 1: the compromise that has made is always the best thing.
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I think it's it's going to be
Speaker 1: around a long time. Actors and directors and prop guys
Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, all of us sort of coming
Speaker 1: together and trying to figure this out. Yeah, I uh,
Speaker 1: I can't let you go before we talk about three
Speaker 1: of the largest, most well important, at least from an
Speaker 1: outsider's perspective, credits that you've been involved with three Academy
Speaker 1: Award nominated films for Best Picture, Goodnight and Good Luck,
Speaker 1: Manchester by the Sea, and of course Argo that that
Speaker 1: ends up winning. Let's talk about Argo a little bit.
Speaker 1: To start, Bob Anders you played, How did you get
Speaker 1: involved with Argo? Well, that was going back to sc
Speaker 1: Grant Heslov. You know Grant totally found that story and
Speaker 1: champion that whole movie from you know, step one. He
Speaker 1: was like, that would make a great movie. He found
Speaker 1: a great writer. George was originally gonna star and direct
Speaker 1: in it, and that changed so it looked like it
Speaker 1: was dead in the water. And then he found Ben
Speaker 1: and he just um the whole time. He was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta role for you. I gotta role for you,
Speaker 1: I gotta roll for you. So it was very sweet
Speaker 1: and and Ben was not into it. He didn't want
Speaker 1: me for the role, but but Grant really fought for me.
Speaker 1: And uh, I always always be grateful for for that
Speaker 1: experience because that was working on Argo was like crazy, great,
Speaker 1: great experience. Um, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1: One thing that Ben did was he stuck all the
Speaker 1: house guests, you know, the hostages, in the house that
Speaker 1: we shot in, and we had to live there with
Speaker 1: no contact, no email, no phone, nothing, no television, no
Speaker 1: radio for seven full days. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: come on, man, I'm too old for this, like method bullshit,
Speaker 1: you know, like, let me do my own thing. I
Speaker 1: don't want to live with these guys. I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, a bunch of young actors who were going
Speaker 1: to be in character seven. You know, I was just
Speaker 1: like jeez, So I was dragged into that house and
Speaker 1: you had to drag me and everybody else out of
Speaker 1: it because it was we We had the most amazing time.
Speaker 1: It was an incredible experience that just spend a week
Speaker 1: in that world and we weren't allowed to leave the house.
Speaker 1: It was we just bonded so much. We just we
Speaker 1: just loved each other and had the best times and
Speaker 1: drank and it sort of did a lot of what
Speaker 1: the hostages did, but they did a lot of partying.
Speaker 1: I know that we shot a bunch of scenes where
Speaker 1: the hostages were partying and playing cards and getting drunk,
Speaker 1: uh and celebrating, but they had to cut them all
Speaker 1: out because, um, it made us look like a bunch
Speaker 1: of assholes, because like here's the CIA and the whole
Speaker 1: government in Canada and the whole world is trying to
Speaker 1: get them out and we're just like partying and having
Speaker 1: a great time. Um. But you know, working with Ben
Speaker 1: it was really interesting. He was the star of it, right,
Speaker 1: so he sort of directed us by his acting. We
Speaker 1: do a scene with him and he was just business
Speaker 1: and there was no there was no flurry. There were
Speaker 1: no curly cues, There was no showmanship in his performance.
Speaker 1: He was just giving us the facts and the lines,
Speaker 1: and so we took that in and just gave him
Speaker 1: our lines back, you know. And he did a lot
Speaker 1: of non verbal directing, which I really I really admired.
Speaker 1: I really um looking back on it and and seeing
Speaker 1: the film that he made, so impressed by how little
Speaker 1: he sort of directed us, and yet how how much
Speaker 1: he directed us just subconsciously at any rate. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was amazing experience. We went to Turkey, we shot
Speaker 1: in Turkey, and that was an amazing go to Istanbul
Speaker 1: was just a incredible town, an incredible city. So that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and then it won the Academy Award. We
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. We could not believe it. You weren't.
Speaker 1: You weren't fell Obama gave it to us. No, not
Speaker 1: at all, no way. Lincoln was like, you know, Argo
Speaker 1: didn't get great reviews. It was like, yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good movie, you know, patting itself on the back, Hollywood
Speaker 1: patting itself on the back. But you know, everyone was
Speaker 1: in love with Lincoln. It was just like, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: Lincoln was just like everyone's gonna win everything. And yeah
Speaker 1: it was argo. Yeah crazy, that's so, that's so great
Speaker 1: and and and and to have my my best my
Speaker 1: best friend, I mean for I mean, I can't tell
Speaker 1: you we were roommates for years and years and years.
Speaker 1: To have him win an Academy award, to see him
Speaker 1: up there, I can't tell you how in credible a sensation.
Speaker 1: It is, like, I know what that guy has gone through,
Speaker 1: and he came from nothing, from nowhere. It's just hard
Speaker 1: work and smarts and just two And he's such a
Speaker 1: good guy. Grant has love. He's such a kind and
Speaker 1: considerate guy. You know, like we all think, oh, Hollywood's
Speaker 1: filled with, you know, the worst people in the world,
Speaker 1: and that's what you have to be to succeed. And
Speaker 1: like Grant Heslov is the the example that that is
Speaker 1: so not true. You can be an amazing guy, uh,
Speaker 1: super kind, super generous and be on top of the hill.
Speaker 1: Oh it was awesome. I love that. Uh. You recently
Speaker 1: wrap production on a new series set in Hawaii, You
Speaker 1: lucky dog. You I know it was fun. Tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about that. Oh, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: crazy fun little Um. I'm so curious how it's going
Speaker 1: to come out because it's it's it's all over the
Speaker 1: place in terms of the script. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to make. You know, you can't
Speaker 1: you can't turn down a gig in Hawaii, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So it should be fun. But but
Speaker 1: I also finished, um, I think it's gonna be equally
Speaker 1: as good as Manchester by the Sea or some of
Speaker 1: the other movies that Alexander Paine's new movies starring m
Speaker 1: Paul Giamatti. I just have a tiny role in it.
Speaker 1: I only I only work, I only really have one scene.
Speaker 1: But oh my god, Paul Giamatti. It's called The Holdovers,
Speaker 1: and Paul Giamatti in this script, he is he is
Speaker 1: so good. I've been acting for forty years and I've
Speaker 1: never did done what I did with Paul Giamatti. I'm
Speaker 1: in the scene with him and he's he has a
Speaker 1: sort of long speech, and I have the line after
Speaker 1: long speech, and I just got so caught up as
Speaker 1: an audience. Remember watching Paul Giamatti, I was just like
Speaker 1: captured by his performance that I completely forgotten. I'm I've
Speaker 1: forgotten my lines before, but I was I wasn't even
Speaker 1: in the room. I was just like, I was just
Speaker 1: like a fan, just thinking, God, Paul Giamatti is the
Speaker 1: greatest actor. And they were like cut They're like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh God, sorry, guys, sorry, I know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was just like so captured by his performance that
Speaker 1: I completely forgot that I had to say something to it.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see that. It makes me very
Speaker 1: excited to see that I was nder pain man. He
Speaker 1: is I would I would have done craft service for
Speaker 1: Alexander Pain. I mean he is. He is an amazing director.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you you're familiar, but you know
Speaker 1: he did. Uh of course. Yeah, he's so good. Tate,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming to talk to me today.
Speaker 1: I have long admired your work. The scope, the scale,
Speaker 1: the diversity. Uh is so impressive. I appreciate you coming
Speaker 1: to talk to me. And yeah, at some point we'll
Speaker 1: we'll go get we'll go get a beer or a coffee.
Speaker 1: That would be awesome. I would love to That would
Speaker 1: be so great. And thanks for having me on man.
Speaker 1: I really I'm a huge fan of yours too. I
Speaker 1: just you're just fantastic, and uh, yeah, I look for
Speaker 1: it would be great. If we get a beer after
Speaker 1: after working together, that's right, Let's do that would be
Speaker 1: the ultimate. Let's do that deal. Thanks Tate Man, Tate,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for chatting with me today. I'm
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go watch Hercules tonight with
Speaker 1: my kids. Just in your honor, listeners, We're gonna see
Speaker 1: you next week for another episode of Off the Beat.
Speaker 1: I'll have our guest, You'll have another laugh. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: what more can we ask for? Make sure to check
Speaker 1: out Off the Beat on Instagram and leave us a
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts in the meantime, and I will
Speaker 1: catch you next week. Off the Beat is hosted an
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and
Speaker 1: Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and
Speaker 1: our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme song Bubble and
Speaker 1: Squeak performed by my great friend Creed Breton, and the
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by Seth olandscape Uno