Speaker 1: Congratulations, graduates, you did it. You successfully paid a ton
Speaker 1: for your degree, likely using borrowed money from the government
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. You're a reward for this accomplishment, a mountain
Speaker 1: of debt. We are talking about student loans. This is
Speaker 1: game plan. Hi. I'm Rebecca Greenfield and I'm Francesco Levie.
Speaker 1: This week we're talking about student debt, which is not
Speaker 1: only an issue for new graduates or people going to
Speaker 1: school or going back to school, but something that can
Speaker 1: follow you throughout your entire working life. Yeah. For the
Speaker 1: past few years, we've been hearing more and more about
Speaker 1: our country's huge student debtload, which is right now about
Speaker 1: one point for trillion dollars. The reason we've been hearing
Speaker 1: about it so much is because it's a real problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for some more stats, last year, about seven and
Speaker 1: ten seniors who are graduating had alone and the average
Speaker 1: debt was thirty seven thousand, seventy two dollars, which is large. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of money to be hanging over your head,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's also a high percentage of people
Speaker 1: just walking around with all this debt. And I feel
Speaker 1: like around the time you and I entered college. It
Speaker 1: was just kind of expected that you would enter into
Speaker 1: this really intense contract where you we're going to get
Speaker 1: an education in return for kind of being on the
Speaker 1: hook for this huge amount of money for all of
Speaker 1: your working life. And you know, there was a lot,
Speaker 1: always a lot of talk when I was applying for
Speaker 1: colleges about you know, workshops to fund it and how
Speaker 1: to fill out your FAFTSA and all these things, but
Speaker 1: there wasn't any talk about what the implications would be
Speaker 1: for the rest of my working life. Yeah, and having
Speaker 1: debt changes the way you behave after school. It changes
Speaker 1: the type of jobs you take. So law students, for example,
Speaker 1: they feel like they have to go work at these
Speaker 1: big firms to pay off their law school tuition if
Speaker 1: they're lucky and can even get those jobs. Or you
Speaker 1: might go to a job that you don't really want
Speaker 1: because you feel like you have to. There are companies
Speaker 1: now that are trying to attract workers by saying that
Speaker 1: they will help them pay off their student debt, which
Speaker 1: is a new benefit that they're offering because they know
Speaker 1: it's weighing on the minds of these new grads so much.
Speaker 1: It's enough of a cloud hanging over workers that they
Speaker 1: count this student loan benefit as a perk that's like
Speaker 1: equal to health benefits. Yeah, because a lot of people
Speaker 1: were going into jobs and they weren't taking advantage of
Speaker 1: other benefits like four oh one case, because they felt
Speaker 1: that they had to put away money. And it is
Speaker 1: a significant chunk of your paycheck that you need to
Speaker 1: put away every single month until the end of time.
Speaker 1: It seems just to pay off your loans. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's not just putting away money for your four O
Speaker 1: one ca, but people are delaying all kinds of decisions.
Speaker 1: We've read about how people with student loans are putting
Speaker 1: off buying homes, which has a knock on effect on
Speaker 1: the economy at large. Yeah. I feel like there are
Speaker 1: all these things that we blame millennials for or say
Speaker 1: like it's a character trait of this entire generation of people,
Speaker 1: which a lot of it can be traced back to
Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of us are graduating with debt.
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, millennials are lazy and still live with
Speaker 1: their parents. It's like, oh, well, they can't afford rent
Speaker 1: because they're putting hundreds of dollars to debt. Or there
Speaker 1: are so many articles about like what industries millennials are killing.
Speaker 1: Millennials are killing everything. They're just industry murderers. And it's like, well, no,
Speaker 1: they can't. They're going to behave an act differently because
Speaker 1: their financial situation is different. Are you sure it's not
Speaker 1: about avocado toast? Yeah, this was a really fun article
Speaker 1: guy that said millennials, we millennials aren't buying homes because
Speaker 1: we're spending too much on avocado toast. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: avocado toast index. It's really affecting the globally. Con I
Speaker 1: will admit that I make avocado toast a ton on
Speaker 1: the weekends, and it's a very cheap kfast like it's
Speaker 1: not expensive to buy. You use like a quarter of
Speaker 1: an avocado and a piece of bread and an egg
Speaker 1: could not be cheaper. And you're a you're a basically
Speaker 1: a success story, so I feel like you're however, you
Speaker 1: are a poster child for avocado toast and its benefits. Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: but yes, I mean we're joking. But what's going on
Speaker 1: here is so much new swirling around because millennials. Anything
Speaker 1: makes for a good headline that basically shows how millennials
Speaker 1: habits are changing and that then kind of infers from
Speaker 1: that that there's something inherently about millennials that you know
Speaker 1: is making them do bad things to the economy. But
Speaker 1: if you scratch even a little, you can see that
Speaker 1: what's behind so many of these things is student debt. Right,
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of news stories about the
Speaker 1: hysteria surrounding student debt. Um. You mentioned at one point
Speaker 1: for a Chilian figure, which sounds huge, and there's even
Speaker 1: talk of a similar to a housing market bubble um.
Speaker 1: And so, like, we know we're supposed to be worried
Speaker 1: about this on a macro level, but I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people, and a lot of graduates, it can
Speaker 1: be hard to wrap your head around how much am
Speaker 1: I supposed to worry about it myself? Um. And to
Speaker 1: that point, there was a story that our former colleague
Speaker 1: Natalie kuld Off wrote about how most students don't know
Speaker 1: anything about their college lens. Yeah, the story pops up
Speaker 1: periodically and it sounds kind of shocking, But basically, people
Speaker 1: don't tend to like they couldn't name the figure of
Speaker 1: how much student debt they actually have, and they're also
Speaker 1: fairly unaware of what their options are for repaying it
Speaker 1: and what programs might be available to them to help
Speaker 1: them pay it down with, like lower interest rates or
Speaker 1: a better program than the one they have now. They
Speaker 1: kind of signed into this contract early on and then
Speaker 1: you know, automate their monthly payments hopefully or they don't.
Speaker 1: They default, but you know, and then they just kind
Speaker 1: of don't think about it again. And since I'm no
Speaker 1: expert on student at myself, we are going to talk
Speaker 1: to the smartest person I know about student debt, my
Speaker 1: very talented colleague, shah Nast report covers student debt for Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: and he is going to answer all of our questions
Speaker 1: about our student loans. Thanks so much for taking the time, Shane, Hi,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on. So can you tell us
Speaker 1: how we got to where we are today? Why is
Speaker 1: student debt such a big problem now? The reason why
Speaker 1: we're here today? Well, actually there's a lot of reasons. One,
Speaker 1: there are more people who are going to college, right,
Speaker 1: I think a huge percentage of the workforce now has
Speaker 1: a college degree. This wasn't the case, you know, ten
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. So more people going to school, more
Speaker 1: debt incurred. States are cutting back on subsidies that they
Speaker 1: provide to their state schools. So students, you know, for example,
Speaker 1: like I'm from California. When I was graduating high school,
Speaker 1: you go to UC Berkeley all in under fifteen k
Speaker 1: year full cost of attendance. Now it's like in the twenties,
Speaker 1: So schools are cutting back subsidies to hire ed So
Speaker 1: colleges are raising tuition. Families can't afford it, they borrow more. Uh,
Speaker 1: colleges of all stripes have been raising tuition for years
Speaker 1: and years relentlessly. Um, that's about it. So if you're
Speaker 1: someone who just graduated, you're about to enter their workforce,
Speaker 1: and you know this is a big problem, but you
Speaker 1: don't really know what you can do about it. Like
Speaker 1: how can an individual be smart and responsible about their
Speaker 1: own loans that they've already taken out. So if you've
Speaker 1: just graduated, you just left school, you've got six months
Speaker 1: to get your loans in order. You're in a grace
Speaker 1: period um, which is offered by the government, basically six
Speaker 1: months to get all your paperwork in order. First thing
Speaker 1: you need to do is before even you find a job.
Speaker 1: In my view, the government offers what are called income
Speaker 1: driven repayment plans, which is basically a bunch of repayment
Speaker 1: plans where your payments are pegged to your monthly income.
Speaker 1: And if your income zero so you have no job,
Speaker 1: no source of earnings, your payments or zero, and you
Speaker 1: stay current on your loans for twelve months, uh, you
Speaker 1: check back in with the government the next year, make
Speaker 1: sure you know your income is the same, and you
Speaker 1: do that for years, your debts forgiven. So that's my
Speaker 1: advice to recent grads. Check out income driven repayment plans.
Speaker 1: If you're not making that much money and you owe
Speaker 1: a lot, you've got to check these out because it's
Speaker 1: not worth putting your life on hold to make your
Speaker 1: student loan payments. Everyone else, honestly, same advice. If you
Speaker 1: owe a lot of money, you don't make that much,
Speaker 1: go to the government's website literally student loans dot gov.
Speaker 1: Look up these income plans. No one in America should
Speaker 1: be defaulting on a student loan. In my view, there
Speaker 1: are too many options available to people where, regardless of
Speaker 1: the amount of financial distress they're facing, the government does
Speaker 1: offer these options to you, and people need to take advantage.
Speaker 1: So an income based repayment plan you pay back based
Speaker 1: on your income. Clearly say you're a lawyer, you're making
Speaker 1: a pretty good salary. You're gonna have to pay a
Speaker 1: lot back. Still, Yeah, but it's better than what what
Speaker 1: is the alternative if I don't do that? The alternative
Speaker 1: is there's the government offers a standard tenure repayment plan
Speaker 1: where basically they look at how much you borrowed, what's
Speaker 1: the interest rate. They figure out, okay, so how much
Speaker 1: at the current interest rate? How much are you gonna
Speaker 1: know after ten years? So then they basically divide that
Speaker 1: total sum up by twenty so twelve months, ten years,
Speaker 1: and that's your payment for the next ten years of
Speaker 1: your life. So if you can afford to make that payment,
Speaker 1: or if you can afford to pay even more, do so.
Speaker 1: But if you can't, you owe it to yourself to
Speaker 1: check out these income plans as opposed to just burying
Speaker 1: your head in the sand and thinking it'll go away,
Speaker 1: because it's it's not. The government will get paid. That's
Speaker 1: another thing I've heard that people don't know where their
Speaker 1: various loans are. Is there a way to figure that out? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a problem. So the government has
Speaker 1: this huge database, it's called you know, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: matter what it's called. But basically they have this database
Speaker 1: where it's like every person who's ever taken out of
Speaker 1: student loan or gotten a federal grant from the from
Speaker 1: the FEDS, it's in this database again, student loans dot Gov.
Speaker 1: Go to this website and you're you know, you get
Speaker 1: a credential, so you give yoursel security number and like
Speaker 1: date of birth. You log in and all your loans
Speaker 1: are listed. Private loans they're not there. So if you
Speaker 1: borrowed from some bank, you gotta go to the bank,
Speaker 1: But if you borrowed from the FEDS, literally, it's all
Speaker 1: on this website. And what do you How do you
Speaker 1: feel about taking out private loans? Um? I think it
Speaker 1: depends right, So I like, if someone asks me, should
Speaker 1: they take out private loans, my instinctive answer to them
Speaker 1: probably not. But depends on your situation. But if you
Speaker 1: can meet your obligations by borrowing from the Feds, you're
Speaker 1: probably better off doing so, because if you borrow from
Speaker 1: a bank, you fall behind on your loans. You know,
Speaker 1: after graduation, they're going to come after you and you'll
Speaker 1: default after like six days, it'll ruin your credit. They
Speaker 1: won't really offer you that many options, like you're going
Speaker 1: to have to pay up FEDS. First of all, it
Speaker 1: takes nine months to default, that's number one. The second
Speaker 1: thing is they offer all these income plans so literally,
Speaker 1: I mean I can't the fact that people default. It
Speaker 1: really bothers me because literally, if you make no money,
Speaker 1: your payments are nothing. It's you get a bill it
Speaker 1: says zero do literally zero dollars. I'm sorry, I don't
Speaker 1: mean to get emotionally, it just it really bothers me
Speaker 1: that people default when like because they have no money,
Speaker 1: because like you don't have to pay anything if you
Speaker 1: enroll in these plans. Do you think people are averse
Speaker 1: to the income payment plans because they think they need
Speaker 1: to be paying off as much as possible, or they
Speaker 1: just do not know about it. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's a variety of things, to be honest. I think
Speaker 1: one some people just they're like afraid of debt, you know,
Speaker 1: we all. I mean I have friends who refuse to
Speaker 1: look at their monthly statements like credit cards. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll make their mortgage, but credit cards, auto loan, student loans,
Speaker 1: like they're just scared and they just they it goes
Speaker 1: in like in a box in their closet and they
Speaker 1: never open it other people. They get bad advice and
Speaker 1: information from their loan services. Loan servicers are these companies.
Speaker 1: They're the ones who send you your monthly bills, they
Speaker 1: tell you when you're behind. They're the ones you send
Speaker 1: your checks to, or you know, do your auto debit
Speaker 1: from your bank account. These these guys, they don't employ
Speaker 1: enough people. Imagine calling your local cable company or your
Speaker 1: cell phone company and wanting help, like you're on hold forever.
Speaker 1: You get to someone, that person doesn't really understand what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. You asked to talk to a supervisor,
Speaker 1: You get transferred around. Next thing you know, forty five
Speaker 1: minutes have passed in your issue hasn't been resolved. Same
Speaker 1: thing with student loans. Government doesn't pay them that much.
Speaker 1: Companies don't invest, so like they're employing all these people
Speaker 1: who don't know what's going on, and so you ask
Speaker 1: them for help. They have no idea. You're probably not
Speaker 1: aware of the incomplainants, and so you're basically where you started.
Speaker 1: It's a bureaucratic thicket, and you are a young professional
Speaker 1: trying to make things work, and you don't have time
Speaker 1: for it. Exactly like how much do we get for lunch? Right?
Speaker 1: For lucky again, our most people eat a through desk.
Speaker 1: I eat at my desk, so I probably take fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes for lunch. And during that time, I don't want
Speaker 1: to call my loan company like figure this stuff out.
Speaker 1: I want to go on TMZ or I mean actual
Speaker 1: dot com. That's right, that's right. Um, So you've been
Speaker 1: talking about when you're taking out loans, like try to
Speaker 1: get a federal loan. What are some of the other
Speaker 1: ways if I'm going back to school or thinking about
Speaker 1: taking loans for my kids? What are some other ways
Speaker 1: I can be smart about going into debt. The best
Speaker 1: thing you can do, and the thing is, like most
Speaker 1: people don't do this is try to borrow the least
Speaker 1: amount possible. So like figure out how much you're gonna pay.
Speaker 1: It's like basic budgeting. What's your rent going to be,
Speaker 1: what's your tuition going to be? How much you're gonna
Speaker 1: pay for books? Like can you buy use books? Can
Speaker 1: you like make photo copies of like your friends books,
Speaker 1: and like violate copyright laws, may not get caught, Like
Speaker 1: do all these little things to like save money. The
Speaker 1: biggest thing is like don't borrow too much. Their university
Speaker 1: professors and like experts on student loans and financial aid
Speaker 1: who are saying, like the biggest issue or one of
Speaker 1: the biggest issues, that people don't borrow enough, Like too
Speaker 1: many people drop out of college due to like financial considerations. Yes,
Speaker 1: there are people out there who like get hit with
Speaker 1: unexpected costs and they have to drop out because they
Speaker 1: can't afford it, And like, I get that, but so
Speaker 1: many people oh way more than they can afford. Even
Speaker 1: President Obama said, I want to say in like the
Speaker 1: summer of twenty twelve, or like he acknowledged that a
Speaker 1: huge chunk of our student loans that will not be repaid.
Speaker 1: It's just not going to And the reason is, like
Speaker 1: people aren't getting go jobs they can afford their loan payments,
Speaker 1: Like they're not really thinking about this stuff. Best that
Speaker 1: you can do, figure out how much you're gonna need
Speaker 1: and do not borrow more than that. And when you
Speaker 1: say don't borrow more than you can afford, part of
Speaker 1: that calculation is probably like what your degree is actually
Speaker 1: going to net you in the end, exactly how good
Speaker 1: of a job you can get. This is kind of
Speaker 1: a controversial idea, but should people be thinking more pragmatically
Speaker 1: about what they study in college in order to get
Speaker 1: a return on that investment. I absolutely think we do.
Speaker 1: Right now, go to the Census spirit you never met websites,
Speaker 1: so you can go to the Census Bureau. You know,
Speaker 1: they have all these stats on like American households, like
Speaker 1: how many how much beef we eat? All this stuff.
Speaker 1: One thing they have is like earnings, and they have
Speaker 1: earnings by like education received. Literally one in four bachelor's
Speaker 1: degree holders in America make this no more money than
Speaker 1: the typical high school grad. So for a quarter of
Speaker 1: bachelor degree holders going to college, like, if you're talking
Speaker 1: about financial return, probably wasn't worth it because think about
Speaker 1: they had to take time off work to go to school,
Speaker 1: they had to pay for that school, and maybe they
Speaker 1: took out debt and they come out and their earnings
Speaker 1: are no more than the typical high school grad. Like,
Speaker 1: people need to be thinking about this stuff. But also,
Speaker 1: I mean, like schools know that grad degrees are a
Speaker 1: huge money maker for them, so they jack up the
Speaker 1: tuition and students can borrow up to the full cost
Speaker 1: of attendance from the FEDS, which the schools themselves set
Speaker 1: there is an incentive for the schools to charge as
Speaker 1: much as possible, and like there's this thing in higher
Speaker 1: ed where people associate higher price with better qualities. So
Speaker 1: like school, oh must be great, must be buried in
Speaker 1: the school. And so you have like people who are
Speaker 1: graduating with masters and social work noble profession. Like my
Speaker 1: wife is a public defender. She works with social workers
Speaker 1: and utmost respect for them. They're go going to these
Speaker 1: programs where they're paying like fifty plus a year, they're
Speaker 1: coming out making like thirty forty. The schools charge it,
Speaker 1: the Feds will fund it. The borrowers on the hook.
Speaker 1: Like I get the desire and want to do good,
Speaker 1: but at some point, like people have to think, like
Speaker 1: this amount of paying for this degree, is it really
Speaker 1: going to pay off? I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: are worried about what might change for the better or
Speaker 1: the worst under the new administration. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: about how things are going now? The fact of the
Speaker 1: matter is, like the Trump administration, they are they are
Speaker 1: making it harder for student debtors to repay their loans,
Speaker 1: like that is a fact. They are increasing collection charges,
Speaker 1: they are decreasing the amount of the requirements they're putting
Speaker 1: on loan companies. The Obama administration towards the end, they
Speaker 1: wanted to make it easier for borrowers to pay back
Speaker 1: their debt. They wanted to increase the level of customer
Speaker 1: service offered by these loan companies. Trump administrations saying no,
Speaker 1: we don't care about that. So and then on top
Speaker 1: of that, they're like moving to eliminate certain like there's
Speaker 1: an income based plan right now, or excuse me, there's
Speaker 1: a payment plan called public service loan forgiveness where if
Speaker 1: you come out of school with student loan debt, you
Speaker 1: work for any nonprofit or any government agency nonprofit five
Speaker 1: and one C three right, typical nonprofit. You make your
Speaker 1: payments for ten years. Anything of your debt remaining after
Speaker 1: that is forgiven tax free, like you're done. Trump administration
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of it. Trump administration also has
Speaker 1: said previously that they want to largely like move a
Speaker 1: lot of the federal student loan program into the private sector.
Speaker 1: Right now, federal loans third entitlement. If you've got a pulse,
Speaker 1: you can get a student loan if you go to
Speaker 1: a bank, like they're going to frisk you pretty good
Speaker 1: before they lend you that money, and if you're higher risk,
Speaker 1: they're going to charge you more. So it's going to
Speaker 1: be more pensive. So that degree you want, it's going
Speaker 1: to be more expensive. That's what the Trump administration wants. Now.
Speaker 1: You know, they have this philosophy where less government involvement,
Speaker 1: let the private sector to its thing. It'll probably be
Speaker 1: better for the economy and for society, like on the whole,
Speaker 1: like after a certain amount of time. But right now,
Speaker 1: if you can't really put food on the table, you're
Speaker 1: struggling to do so, you can't really afford to pay rent.
Speaker 1: You want to better your life, You want to get
Speaker 1: a degree, get a better job, get a real career.
Speaker 1: Trump administration, at least in the short term for you,
Speaker 1: over the next couple of years, they are legitimately making
Speaker 1: it harder for you. I want to focus on that
Speaker 1: public service uh loan forgiveness program because I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people might hear that and get really scared
Speaker 1: if they entered a life a career of public service
Speaker 1: UM or you know, I have already taken out loans
Speaker 1: with that in mind, that they're not going to get
Speaker 1: that forgiveness if this policy changes. So if of student
Speaker 1: loans right now. Don't worry about polk service loan forgiveness,
Speaker 1: like it's in your loan contract. You are if you're
Speaker 1: eligible for it, you can take advantage the Trump administration's proposal.
Speaker 1: First of all, has Congress has to pass, It has
Speaker 1: to go through a house, has to go to the Senate.
Speaker 1: So that's like for starters number one, number two. Even
Speaker 1: if they were to move forward and Trump's plans were
Speaker 1: to be enacted, it can't be retroactively applied. So the
Speaker 1: way it would work is it would eliminate this option
Speaker 1: for future borrowers and future loans. So like let's say
Speaker 1: you're a college student now, you've got a year left,
Speaker 1: the loans you've taken out to date would be eligible
Speaker 1: maybe like next year when they pass it. Your loan
Speaker 1: two years from now may not be eligible, but stuff
Speaker 1: previously will be. If you're in it now, if you're
Speaker 1: dead or now thinking about it, like you're safe. Do
Speaker 1: not worry. This is for future students and future loans
Speaker 1: that would not be eligible. Another thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask that might be different about the current administration. You've
Speaker 1: written a lot about this in the past, but an
Speaker 1: industry that the Obama administration was trying to crack down
Speaker 1: a lot, especially towards the end, was for profit colleges.
Speaker 1: And when we talk about return on investment, those are
Speaker 1: some of the worst actors in that way, Right, You
Speaker 1: really get very little often for what you what you
Speaker 1: spend on a for profit college. Um, So what is
Speaker 1: the what is the Department of Education under Trump? What
Speaker 1: is their point of view on for profit colleges and
Speaker 1: that sort of Obama era crackdown? Well, so far they
Speaker 1: are defending some of the Obama era crackdowns in court,
Speaker 1: so industry. So there's this new rule it's known as
Speaker 1: gainful employment. Basically, it says the government will stop giving
Speaker 1: UH students loans to attend certain career programs if previous
Speaker 1: grads from those programs don't make enough to afford their
Speaker 1: student loan payments. So it's like, after a few years,
Speaker 1: if a particular career program like welding at you know,
Speaker 1: such and such college, if their students aren't making that
Speaker 1: much relative to them out they borrowed, the government will
Speaker 1: say no. Moss. So industry obviously is sued to overturn
Speaker 1: this in court because government's funds nine out of ten
Speaker 1: new loans and it's a huge cash cow and no
Speaker 1: one wants to be left out. Trump administration thus far
Speaker 1: as defended this thing in court. So if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about it from like a taxpayer protection perspective, like that's
Speaker 1: probably a good thing. On the other side, the Trump
Speaker 1: administration's Education Department is talked with former for profit lobbyists
Speaker 1: and executives, and these are the folks who very strongly believe, like, look,
Speaker 1: we need to provide people with choices, and the more
Speaker 1: choice we have, the better the market will work. Will
Speaker 1: have informed consumers, they will be decided. Let them decide
Speaker 1: whether there are certain schools worthy of their time and investment.
Speaker 1: Don't have the government in the business of limiting options.
Speaker 1: That's like their sincere, you know, worldview. I've leave them
Speaker 1: that that's what they that that's what they truly believe,
Speaker 1: and like their policy kind of flows from that. So
Speaker 1: knowing that, you've got to think, like long term, Trump
Speaker 1: administration is going to make it easier for for profit
Speaker 1: colleges because they want people to have choice. Betsy Devas
Speaker 1: has no problem with like for profit K through twelve schools,
Speaker 1: so why would she have a problem with for profit
Speaker 1: colleges and universities. You gotta think that they're going to
Speaker 1: make it easier for for profits. The issue is like,
Speaker 1: do we want to society where people have unlimited choice
Speaker 1: and where that choice could lead to a their own
Speaker 1: financial ruin and be squandered taxpayer dollars which are kind
Speaker 1: of a scarce resource these days. If you think about
Speaker 1: like the options we have in terms of we got
Speaker 1: a fun sol security, we got a fund Medicare, we
Speaker 1: got from the military, we have all these other programs,
Speaker 1: Like do we want to let taxpayer dollars go to
Speaker 1: waste in terms of like people getting degrees that are
Speaker 1: useless and worthless and owing a bunch of debt to
Speaker 1: the treasury that will never get collected. Or do we
Speaker 1: want a society where people have unlimited choice if they
Speaker 1: waste money the taxpayers and get repaid. Oh well, at
Speaker 1: least people have the choice, like which one do you
Speaker 1: value more? That's the way I kind of think about
Speaker 1: these issues. Well, this was really interesting and fun. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on and talking to us.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. I think Shaheen knows too much.
Speaker 1: His outlook is pretty negative on the state of student loans,
Speaker 1: and the cost of college and live future debt burden
Speaker 1: and what it's going to do to our nation. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe you might think, like, oh, should
Speaker 1: I go to school even at all? Or take out
Speaker 1: loans or you know, do I have to be the
Speaker 1: most conservative ever? And I don't think we'll ever be
Speaker 1: able to afford to send my kids to college. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that is is the message.
Speaker 1: It's more like Shaheen said that he doesn't understand why
Speaker 1: anybody defaults on his loans, and that's because he is
Speaker 1: so knowledgeable that for him, there are all these resources
Speaker 1: and things, and I think a lot of people just
Speaker 1: don't know as much as he does. The fact is,
Speaker 1: it's not really in anybody's interest right now to make
Speaker 1: those options really easy and fair and available to people.
Speaker 1: So to me, if you're not a reporter who covers
Speaker 1: this and is really steeped in it, it's really easy
Speaker 1: to understand how you might not know what your repayment
Speaker 1: options are, or you might be so overwhelmed by the
Speaker 1: sheer number that you just declined to deal with it
Speaker 1: at all and you kind of tune it out and
Speaker 1: hope it goes away, and of course it won't go away.
Speaker 1: We'll only get worse. Yeah, So to help with that,
Speaker 1: we asked Shan for some easy resources that people can
Speaker 1: seek out right. So, if you have student debt and
Speaker 1: you are unsure what to do about it, your first
Speaker 1: stop should be Student Loans dot gov. She he mentioned
Speaker 1: it a couple of times, but they have some really
Speaker 1: useful things on there. One of them is a one
Speaker 1: of them as a student loan repayment calculator that can
Speaker 1: tell you approximately how long it will take you to
Speaker 1: pay off your loans based on your debt, your your
Speaker 1: interest rate. And you can also on that website apply
Speaker 1: for income based repayment programs if you need a little
Speaker 1: more help than that. If your needs are more complex
Speaker 1: and you just don't know what to do about your
Speaker 1: student loans, there is Student Loan Borrower Assistance dot org
Speaker 1: and they have a whole trove of resources to help
Speaker 1: people handle their debt. If you're in the position where
Speaker 1: you haven't taken out any debt yet and you're still
Speaker 1: deciding on a college, you should make sure to go
Speaker 1: to this other government website called College Scorecard dot e
Speaker 1: D dot gov, and that has resources for every single
Speaker 1: college in the US telling you basically how much you
Speaker 1: can expect to make after you graduate. Yeah, super useful
Speaker 1: and hopefully student debt is a little less terrifying. And
Speaker 1: now it's time for half big takes, half fake takes.
Speaker 1: You can call into our hotline and leave your own
Speaker 1: half big take at two on two six month seven
Speaker 1: zero one six six. This week's guest half big take
Speaker 1: comes from Shaheen Alright, Shahan, what is your workplace? Great?
Speaker 1: So we at Bloomberg LP, you get free coffee at work.
Speaker 1: I don't understand why I see so many people on
Speaker 1: the elevators from the ground floor to our main office
Speaker 1: on the sixth floor carrying cups of coffee that they
Speaker 1: bought from an outside place when we have so many
Speaker 1: coffee choices in the office. We have like a white
Speaker 1: moose chocolate coffee today the other day. We I mean,
Speaker 1: that sounds kind of gross, but there's like hazel nut,
Speaker 1: there's like sustainably grown coffee, there's ice coffee, there's decaf coffee.
Speaker 1: There's like so many coffee choices and it's all free,
Speaker 1: and it's all unlimited. I don't understand why people walk
Speaker 1: into the office holding like what are clearly four or
Speaker 1: five dollar cups of coffee, which, like I get if
Speaker 1: it's a once week treat, like you're feeling special that
Speaker 1: day you want to like have an enjoyable morning. Makes
Speaker 1: sense every day that's you're looking at Bucks a week,
Speaker 1: Like what is that hundred bucks a month, hundred a year?
Speaker 1: We get it for free? Like what are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm so not surprised that that is your point of view,
Speaker 1: having just spent a while talking to you about loans
Speaker 1: and money. You Yes, very practical, Shaheen. Has anyone ever
Speaker 1: called you thrifty? I'm a I'm a I do the
Speaker 1: treat coffee. I also am of the same, like I'm
Speaker 1: not spending money on free things. Both both of you
Speaker 1: are pretty are pretty responsible, and we're careful with our money.
Speaker 1: I I don't want to be the person who defends
Speaker 1: this practice, the practice of buying outside coffee, because I
Speaker 1: always end up in the position of like advocating for
Speaker 1: spending too much money on these things. But um so
Speaker 1: I would say, hypothetically, we're one to spend money on
Speaker 1: coffee when perfectly good, free coffe is available to them.
Speaker 1: They are not paying for the coffee itself, they're paying
Speaker 1: for the experience they're paying to sip their coffee on
Speaker 1: the subway or in their car on the way to work.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I'm not going to defend it.
Speaker 1: You're right, everyone should coffee is bad, but yeah, some
Speaker 1: our coffee is bad. But yeah, I get if it's
Speaker 1: like if the coffee is really bad and you can't
Speaker 1: if it's undrinkable. I get that, but ours is not
Speaker 1: ours is not ours? Is fine, But I mean I
Speaker 1: also like some coffee expert, like, you know, maybe someone
Speaker 1: who drinks something fancy will like turn their nose at Ours.
Speaker 1: It's good for me, I don't mind. And then again,
Speaker 1: I also eat fast food when my wife isn't paying attention.
Speaker 1: So there's also that we all have our guilty pleasures. Francesca,
Speaker 1: what is your not vully formed idea this week? Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a really unexamined danger to check in your email
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning. Everybody's like, oh, work life
Speaker 1: balance isn't an awful We have our phones on our
Speaker 1: bedside tables, and we just first thing in the morning,
Speaker 1: we stare at this blue screen. Blah blah blah. I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not talking about that. When you open up
Speaker 1: your phone first thing, and you start scrolling through emails.
Speaker 1: This is what happens to me. You read the email,
Speaker 1: it's now no longer marked as unread, you have some
Speaker 1: kind of reaction to it, but you're like too tired
Speaker 1: yet to actually respond or take any action on it,
Speaker 1: and then you completely forget you got the email until
Speaker 1: like three days later, and it kind of comes back
Speaker 1: to you in like a vague memory, like a dream.
Speaker 1: So you're basically it's basically like waking up and deleting
Speaker 1: all your emails. That's what you're doing. So don't do it.
Speaker 1: Wait until you've had some coffee and you're sitting at
Speaker 1: a desk and you're in work mode before you start
Speaker 1: checking your emails. Yeah, this happens to me all the time.
Speaker 1: I just realized. So I'm not saying you should like
Speaker 1: stop doing this for work life balancers and whatever. Do
Speaker 1: your email first thing, and just do I still do this.
Speaker 1: I mean, as rational as Rasionally I want to change,
Speaker 1: but I just, yeah, I'm noticing this is a problem,
Speaker 1: and I'm recognizing the problem, and I'm telling you that
Speaker 1: I need help doing something about it. But you're not
Speaker 1: in my house for saying the more so there's nothing
Speaker 1: you can really do. But fair ways shaming you, Becca?
Speaker 1: What is your half? Big take? My take is so underdone.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I fall good on it, but
Speaker 1: going out on Friday nights prior con lay out the
Speaker 1: case for both, I think I might be seasonal, like
Speaker 1: in the winter dark so tired. I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of nice to have a night in or maybe a
Speaker 1: cozy dinner. And I know people who fall on that
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum. Friday night, No go out, You're
Speaker 1: too tired anyway, and then you'll just be tired the
Speaker 1: rest of the weekend. Then again, Friday night you all
Speaker 1: you want is like a drink after work? Now are
Speaker 1: you considering it a choice between Friday and Saturday night?
Speaker 1: Like you you go out one or the other? Or
Speaker 1: is it like sometimes Friday plus Saturday or only Saturday?
Speaker 1: Because for me, like I just never go out. I
Speaker 1: have I'm I'm done ever having fun ever again, I
Speaker 1: can feel like that when you go out on Friday
Speaker 1: day night and you party too hard and you're too
Speaker 1: frankly hungover and tired to do anything Saturday night. You've
Speaker 1: kind of lost that night and then it feels like
Speaker 1: the weekends over sooner. But then sometimes if you just
Speaker 1: go home on a Friday and veg out and don't
Speaker 1: do anything because you're too tired and unmotivated, then you
Speaker 1: wake up on Saturday and you're like, ah, I already
Speaker 1: missed fifty percent of the weekend nights. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: don't know whoa take? So unbaked? You know what? Call
Speaker 1: into our hotline people two on two, six one seven,
Speaker 1: help us. Do you like going out on Friday nights?
Speaker 1: What's the take? Help us help our take? And this
Speaker 1: has been half big takes, half baked takes. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to another episode of Game Plan. You can
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at RZ Greenfield and I'm at
Speaker 1: Francesca today. You can tweet us your half bag takes
Speaker 1: or any other thoughts you have about the show. And
Speaker 1: you can also subscribe to our new letter at bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com slash Newsletters. If you like this show, head
Speaker 1: on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and
Speaker 1: rate and review and subscribe, and tell your friends to
Speaker 1: rate and review and subscribe. We love hearing from you.
Speaker 1: This show was produced by Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson
Speaker 1: head a podcast is Alec McCabe and we'll see you
Speaker 1: next week. Bye bye.