1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeartRadio. My guest today has worked in the 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: best restaurants in the world, taught thousands of hours of 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: culinary technique, authored over thirty cookbooks, and at the age 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: of eighty eight, shows no signs of slowing down. Legendary 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: French chef Jacques Pepin Chef Pepin has enjoyed, by all accounts, 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: a most extraordinary life and career. By twenty two, he 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: was the personal chef for French President Charles de gaul 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty nine, he immigrated to America and worked 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: at Le Pavillon, the best French restaurant in New York City, 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: before moving to Howard Johnson's. His next frontier was the 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: American home, instructing audiences on proper French cooking methods. This 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: began with his cookbooks, including the groundbreaking La Teche, and 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: then through multiple PBS series like Today's Gourmet and Cooking 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: at Home. Here, Chef Papin taught the home chef both 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: the basics for everyday meals and experimentation with gourmet flourishes. 17 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: His most recent cookbook is called Jacques papine cooking my 18 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: way recipes and techniques for economical cooking. I wanted to 19 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: know how growing up in a small town in France 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: with his mother working in restaurants put him on the 21 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: path to where he is today. 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: Where we were in the film country, we had a 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: little restaurant just outside of Lyons. The life was quite different. 24 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I tell Nady eight yesterday, so I'm thinking 25 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: about over eighty years ago. Life was relatively easy. My 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 2: father with a cabinet maker, my mother with a cook. 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: So my choice in life was I'm a cabinet maker, 28 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: I'm a cook, within of the telephone, within the radio 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: revision of course, any of this. So life was probably 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: much easier for kid than he is now. And we 31 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: took the dog, my brother and I go into the 32 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: forest and all that on all day off and the 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: parents never you know, we came back at night and 34 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 2: no one. 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,839 Speaker 3: Worried about where you were. 36 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: It was. 37 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: It was quite different than now. 38 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Did your father take his cabinet making practice out into 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: the country with you just outside of the or did 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: he stay in the city and makers products. 41 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: No, he did that in the country, but after he 42 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: gave up anyway, at some point to work in the 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: restaurant with my mother. But my father was a cabinet maker. 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: His father was his brother was what we could in 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: France ebonist from the world ebony. So it's fancy cabinet maker. 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: You know. 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: He used noble wood like cherries, oak and so forth. 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: Never use any nail. It's always you know, curt and 49 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 2: joint and glue and a sculpture on the wood to 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: that type of work. And the weally the sixteen with 51 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: seventeen kind of furniture. I should have a couple of 52 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: peace from him actually in my house. 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Now, your mother got into the restaurant business when you 54 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: were how old? 55 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: Well after I was born, because I have exactly twenty 56 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: years different with my mother. I mean she got married 57 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: I think she was seventeen and a half then at 58 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: my brother with a year and a half older than 59 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: me than me and anotherwise, so she got into the 60 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: restaurant business before the war straighttly before the war. She 61 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: was a waddress, working different restaurants, stelf helping in the kitchen. 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: It was pretty common in France, I mean in the family. 63 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: In France, I come twelve restaurant, twelve of them run 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: by women. My two aunts and sister in law, cousin, 65 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: a niece, a mother. 66 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: They all had. 67 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: I was actually the first male to go into that business. 68 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: And those kind of a formidable women who were not 69 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: very empressed by me. I remember when I was the 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: chef to the president in France. Go back down to 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: Leono to my aunt to a little restaurant. I get 72 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: into the kitchen. She drove me out. She said, you 73 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: used too much. Better get out of here. They were 74 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: not very unpressed by me. 75 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: And who's managing all this enterprise? Your mother? 76 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: Oh, they didn't have twelve restaurants at the time. I'm 77 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: calling you general. And my aunt at a restaurant in book, 78 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: another aunt at a restaurant somewhere else, my mother at 79 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: three four restaurants actually at some point. 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: And what was it about? I mean, so, I'm assuming 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: you feel like you were born to this. There's no 82 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: way you could escape. And you said cabin making or cooking, right, 83 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: But you found the kitchen more seductive. 84 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: Correct, absolutely more exciting, more seductive, And so I went 85 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: into this. I mean now, I said, the choice was 86 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: relatively easy for kid at that point, and France, we 87 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: were supposed to go to school in teenage fourteen, which 88 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: I did at thirteen, and I took all the exam 89 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: you know at the end of primary school, the front exam. 90 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: So I took all of those and I finished when 91 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: I was early thirteen. 92 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: So I say that's it. I'm going into a frightdiceship. 93 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: My older brother became an engineer, so he worked, you know, 94 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: so it was not a question of me that I 95 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: had to go to work. That's what I wanted to do, 96 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: so and I went to school later. 97 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: So do you think that people, I mean, there's next 98 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: to no association between what I do for a living 99 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: and what you do for a living. But in the 100 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: world of acting in theater and so forth, people will 101 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: often say, I can't make you a good actor, but 102 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: I can make you a better actor than you were 103 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: when you walked in the door. But there needs to 104 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: be some inherent inspiration. That is that thing true about 105 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: food and cooking? Do people have to have an inherent 106 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: gift for that kind of thing? 107 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: Yes, certainly. 108 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 2: I mean for me, I'm talking about professionalism, professional chef 109 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: and on a professional chef. I did those books called Technique, 110 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: which is an illustrated my doorit of cooking. Technique to 111 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: know to bon out. You can to poach an egg 112 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: and it's not a question of knowing. 113 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: How to do it. 114 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: It's eleven o'clock and you have one hundred people sitting 115 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 2: down for lunch. 116 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: You really have to move. 117 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: So this is the difference between a professional chef and 118 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: a home cook. You know, the speed and all that too. 119 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: So you have to be a good technician to be 120 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: a chef first. But I know a fair amount of 121 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: a chef who a good technician, run a good kitchen 122 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: and are relatively lousy cook. The food is all right. 123 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: But conversely, I know people who cook at home who 124 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to run a restaurant speed and all 125 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: that to But food is fantastic, great, you know. So 126 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: to be a great chef like Tomas Keller or Daniel Buru, 127 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: well you have to be a technician first, but then 128 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: you have to have other things after. You know, you 129 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: have to have imagination talent to bring it to another level. 130 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: You know. I think eventually you moved to Paris, yes, 131 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and I don't want to quote the number here because 132 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: I find this fantastic. You work in many, many, many 133 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: restaurants during that period, correct. 134 00:06:58,920 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: Close to one hundred. 135 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: How is that possible? 136 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: Its possible because I work at the Plaza and in 137 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Paris for like seven years, put my day off. 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 3: Each day off, I. 139 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: Work at a different restaurant most of the time, and 140 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: that two day of a week. There is an organization 141 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 2: called associated the Quasi Society of the Chef of Paris, 142 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: which I would a member. In fact, I don't know 143 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: why we don't have that in New York. But you 144 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: go in the morning or someone your cook doesn't come 145 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: or whatever doesn't come. 146 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: They call they say I need one cook for the day. 147 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: So you know I will end up like at Messi, 148 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: you know, Galley la Fayette to and do like three 149 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: thousand plate with a slice, a piece of salad in 150 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: between and an egg, you know, and the next time 151 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: I end up in a two star restaurant and next 152 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: so you never know where the society is going to 153 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: sign you. But that was great experience, you know, of 154 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: working because in case like this, it's not like you 155 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: have to wait for the day to learn the habit 156 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: of the house. I mean, within fifteen minutes you're there, 157 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 2: the chef say you got to work. 158 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: So it's great training. 159 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: Really, So you have a job in one where you 160 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: were at Tatanay. Yes, and you have a job. But 161 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: it sounds you sound like we've had guests on the 162 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: show who were some of the most legendary sessions musicians 163 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: in history, right, and it sounds like you have the 164 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: same kind of thing you're you're going to go in 165 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: for a day and and is the culture there, I 166 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: don't want to say uniform, but approachable where you can 167 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: walk in and you're just accepted you walk in there 168 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: or do you see the other conflicts with the way 169 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: things are done? 170 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes no, No, if you work on a job to 171 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: stay for a couple of years, you may get involving 172 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: into that type of thing. But when you work for 173 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: the day two days, no, And remember that at the time, 174 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: the cook was really at the bottom of the social scale. 175 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: Any good mother I wanted a child to marry the lawyer, 176 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 2: you know, a doctor, certainly not a cook. So now 177 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: we are genius. I don't know what happened at that time. 178 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: It wasn't okay. So when you went into a restaurant, 179 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 2: it was to conform exactly to the habit of that reston. 180 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: It was not to create or do something on your own. 181 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: In fact, I don't think I ever used a recipe 182 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 2: before I came to America. So you work in that place, 183 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: you learn the taste of that, and those dishes in 184 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: a sense become very visceral, very powerful. I mean the 185 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: dishes my mother did as a kid. You know, those 186 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: states will stay with you the rest of your life. 187 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: And I'll go the president in Paris, for example, we 188 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: did the lobster soufle. We were a foty eight chef 189 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: in the kitchen there, and the forty eight of us 190 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: could have done it. 191 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: You would never have known who has done it. 192 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: That's what the way it was until Nouvelle Cuisine in 193 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: the mid eighteen ninety when the chef started creating and 194 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: doing that type of thing. 195 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: Whige different. 196 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: Now now you're a hired chef for the president of France, 197 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: right and you work with the gall and some other 198 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: heads of state. How long were you doing that job? 199 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: From fifty six and fifty six to fifty eight and 200 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: the fifty eight I came here at the end. 201 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 3: Of fifty nine. You know, you have to realize that 202 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: at the time. 203 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: Again, as I said, the cook, I serve people like 204 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 2: either know where nehru Tito macmilland over the head of state. 205 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: Not anyone ever would call you to get kuru in 206 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: the dining room. 207 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: Are you kidding? The cook was in the kitchen. 208 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: That was it. 209 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 2: If anyone came into the kitchen because something was wrong. 210 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: Towards two confidences. So I had never had an antilio. 211 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 2: Television barely existed, but with radio or magazzine newspaper that 212 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: didn't exist. 213 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 3: So it was a different world. 214 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: So you're at what is certainly one of the summits 215 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: of cooking in France. If you're cooking for the head 216 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: of state. There you have this amazing job, and then 217 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: when you're done in fifty eight, you moved to the 218 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: United States. 219 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: Correct, right, at the end of nineteen fifteen, I moved. 220 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: I wasn't married. At a great job in France, my 221 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: brother at a restaurant, but I wanted to come to America. 222 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 3: America. 223 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 2: I was she leaves the Golden fleeceh. So I said, 224 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: I want to go there for a year, two years, 225 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: maybe learn the language a little bit, see what's going on. 226 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: I was unattached to So I came here at the 227 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 2: end of fifty nine and I'm still here. 228 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: But you what you see up till then before you 229 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: settle in the United States, it is it's safe to 230 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: say you have a very restless nature. 231 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: Yes, has an extent, but that's what the world of 232 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: food was in a center, restless, moving from one place 233 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: to the other to learn because if you keep your 234 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: eye open, I mean, I can't work with anyone now 235 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: and you learn something, you know you would never have 236 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: sort of doing it this way too. Sometimes you learn 237 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: what not to do, but you learn something. But yeah, 238 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: so in that sense, coming to America was different. It 239 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: was the first time I work at the Pavio in 240 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: New York, was considered, you know, the best restaurant here. 241 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 2: And it was the first time that I did my 242 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: day in one in one shift. In France, we still 243 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 2: did two shift. I start nine o'clock in the morning 244 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: until two o'clock in the afternoon. You're from from two 245 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: to five. 246 00:11:59,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: Go sit down. 247 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: So where and that five you start five to nine 248 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: or ten. But was standard, you know, so here I 249 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: started doing it was one shift. I thought it was 250 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: like half a day of working. That's where I started 251 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: going to school and did other things. I had plenty 252 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: of time and the people, I have to say, at 253 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: the time were very very welcoming. I mean they know, 254 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,719 Speaker 2: they say, oh, you come from a great country. We 255 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: have so much culture, you know. So I said, wow. 256 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: I talked to the people in France I left. They said, 257 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: what are you doing? They don't even have bread, they 258 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: don't have wine, you know at the time. But yeah, 259 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: people were extremely welcoming here. So I loved this. Things 260 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: went on one thing after another, and I'm still here. 261 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: But the thing is, you come here and you have pavion. 262 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: For how long I went at the Pavio not too long, 263 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: from September until next April, six seven months. At that 264 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: time there was a problem with Sule, the owner, and 265 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: all got a problem with the m Pierre Frede, who 266 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: was the executive chef, and the outcome with Suley in 267 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine for the Worldfare at a Young Coming, 268 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: and he stayed there. Eventually he was the executive chef 269 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: when I was there, a problem with Sule and he 270 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: decided to leave. And coincidentally, at that time, Howard Johnson, 271 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: Howard D. Johnson, who created Howard Johnson whether regular patron 272 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: of the Pavilon. So he I at Pierre and Pierre 273 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 2: told me you want to come with me, and I said, okay, 274 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: great ideas. So that's that's what happens. 275 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: Okay, let's stop there because this is the term that 276 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: this is so amazing to me. So you hit the 277 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: summit in France, you're cooking for the heads of state. 278 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: You come to New York, you're a Pavinon in New York, 279 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: and the Howard Johnson, the namesake of the business, comes 280 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: to Pavinon. Is he a regular? 281 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 4: Yes, he's a regular there, and he gets you to 282 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 4: come and cook for the Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. Correct, Yes, absolutely, 283 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 4: How the hell did he do that? 284 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: How did he get you to come? 285 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: No, he actually asked Pierre to come, and Pierre decided 286 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: to go, and Pierre told me, you want to come 287 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: with me to assist me and do and that's how 288 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: I did. But the point is that, as I said, 289 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: the cook was quite different than now, because on that 290 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: spring of nineteen sixty, I actually I would have felt 291 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: the job at the White House for Kennedy and then 292 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: but I had done that, as I said in France, 293 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: I had never been on a magazine newspaper, so I 294 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: had no idea of the potential for publicity too, because 295 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: it really did not exist. In fact, the one who 296 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: went to the White House with a front of mine 297 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: who was the sou chef at the Sex House in 298 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: New York, and I called him, put them in touch. 299 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: Eventually he got the job, and a year later he 300 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: sent me a picture of him with President Kennedy or 301 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: Missus Carr as Wow. I never had a picture with 302 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: the goal of so it was already changing a different world. 303 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: But prior to him, who was a chef at the 304 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: White House? 305 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 3: I asked? 306 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: And it ended up knowing that it was a black 307 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: lady from the South somewhere. 308 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: No one would have known her name, no more than 309 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: an my name or whatever. So it was a differnt world. 310 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: We have to look at it in that context. 311 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: And Haward Johnson or another world for me, American heating, 312 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: American habit. 313 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I want to ask you, which is 314 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: when you come here, yeah again, Head of State France Pavillon, 315 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: you could offer the White House job. What's the first 316 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: thing you're in New York? Correct? You settled in New York. First, 317 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: what's the first thing that strikes you about the way 318 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: Americans eat in American restaurants? 319 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: Well, I live on fiftieth between first and second Avenue, 320 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: on top of a little restaurant called lettock Blanche near 321 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: a certain. 322 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 3: Place for a very nice area. 323 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: So they are a superhi market, which happened my first 324 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: SUPERI market. 325 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: I thought it was great. 326 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: I didn't have to go to the fish guide, the 327 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: vegetable guide and so forth. But then there was a 328 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: lot of package package package. Then there was some good meat, beef, 329 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: lamb lobster, but there was only one salad that was iceberg. 330 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: There was no leak, no shallow, no intel vergetable. I 331 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: remember saying, what are the mercioms thet's say Aisle five 332 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: that was ken mushroom there you didn't, so it was 333 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: undo the world, you know, in terms of course had 334 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: the pavillon. We had great supplier even from Europe, from 335 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: different parts or the fish and all that too. But yes, 336 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: it certainly it was different. 337 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: So when France it's very compartmentalized. You go to the 338 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: fish market, you go to the butcher, you go to 339 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: the vegetable. It's a separate, the bakery, everything is separate. Now, 340 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I can only say this because it's true, 341 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: and that is that for me. Howard Johnson's occupied a 342 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: very specific place because as a Catholic in the sixties, 343 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: as a child, we couldn't eat meat on Friday. So 344 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: the Howard Johnson's fish fry on Fridays was a staple 345 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: in my house, going to have the coles Law and 346 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: the hush puppies and the corn or whatever it was, 347 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: and fried clams. But Howard Johnson's for the guy that's 348 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: a restless guy, for the guy that's moving around and 349 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: trying things. You stayed with Howard Johnson's for ten years, 350 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: is that correct? Yes? Why? 351 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: Well, to start with how Old Johnson, the father came 352 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 2: to my wedding, He came to the Christian of my daughter, 353 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: so they were they used to come to the commissary 354 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 2: and Pierre fred and he said, okay, you guys, do 355 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: whatever you want to. We start changing butter instead of margarine, 356 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: fresh ones and the hydrated onion. We start changing all 357 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: the recipe and start working in the kitchen with four 358 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: for chicken to do a chicken pot pie, and we 359 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: end up with three thousand pounds of chicken at the time. 360 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 2: You know, I move on on the in thousand gallon kettles, 361 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: so it was a large production. 362 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: You know. 363 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: When I finished Howard Johnson. I opened a restaurant on 364 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: Fifth Avenue, cool a potagerie in New York. We sell 365 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: only soup, and I were a consult time for the 366 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: World Trade Center for Joe Baum. We saved one hundred 367 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: thirty thousand people a day. I was a consultant at 368 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: the Russian Teerom. I'm saying only that because other French 369 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: chefs I would never. 370 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 3: Have been able to do any of those jobs. 371 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything about production, marketing, chemi history of food. 372 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: So Howard Johnson was a good experience for me. I 373 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: learned a lot. 374 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: The book is the technique. So the technique is as 375 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: important to you as the artistry preparing food in a 376 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: certain way, because you've mentioned repeatedly in interviews programs of 377 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: yours and then your writing about your mindfulness about economics 378 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: in cooking. Yeah, don't waste anything. 379 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, economic of motion as well as the economic of 380 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: food and so forth. And the technique. I published that technique. 381 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 2: I think it's seventy four or five. It's still in print. 382 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 2: I don't cook the same way that I cook fifty 383 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 2: years ago or two, but the way you shop on 384 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: a knife, you know, piternaspara goose, porch and egg is 385 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: the same way. So those books of technique kind of 386 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: remain because of that. 387 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: Chef Jacques Pepin. If you enjoy in depth culinary conversations, 388 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: check out my episode with Chef Eric Repair of the 389 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: legendary Le Bernadelle. 390 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 5: What I like about Europe is the quality of the products. 391 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 5: When they serve vegetables, they test like what they're supposed 392 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 5: to taste. 393 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 3: Here's a bit of. 394 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 5: A challenge because we do not cultivate the same way. 395 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 5: You know, like the soil is maybe not the same. 396 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 5: I don't know, Like an artichock in a Mediterranean is 397 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 5: not the same artichock that we eat here. And you know, 398 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 5: it's like those gigantic farms, and they have ways of 399 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 5: cultivating and maximizing the land. 400 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: And factory its factories the artichoks are grown. 401 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Eric Repair, go 402 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Jacques 403 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: Papa tells us where a world famous chef dines in 404 00:19:49,160 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: his downtime. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 405 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: the Thing Jacques Pepin's culinary techniques every day Cooking and 406 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: Heart and Soul in the Kitchen. These are just a 407 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: few of the many television programs Papin has created to 408 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: instruct the home chef. But of all his work as 409 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: a television icon, one series he is most well known 410 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: for is his Emmy winning show with Julia Child Julia 411 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: and Jacques Cooking at Home. 412 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: When I did a theory with Julia Child, you know 413 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 2: we did. I knew her fifty years. You know, I'm 414 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 2: married in eighteen sixty, so we did the theory together. 415 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: We had no recipe. She said, what do you want 416 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: to do? Just right down one hundred things of you 417 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 2: want to do with the twenty six show, and she 418 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: did the same way, and I think three of mine 419 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 2: made it in the show. You know, we cook together 420 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: without recipes, so it was harder for the cameraman. Of 421 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: course they don't know whether we're going to left right 422 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: or whatever. But for me, I have a scallion in 423 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: that dish because they happened to be on the table, 424 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: so I throw them in much idea to work without 425 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 2: recip just testing, adjusting this. And the second thing when 426 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: we did our show, of course on PBS, you have 427 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: a time frame. The show thirty minute all the time. 428 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: It's too expensive. But Julia said, we'll cook and when 429 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: it finished, will tell you some of the show. 430 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 3: For eighty minutes ninety minute. I mean, it was amazing. 431 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: And then so we had wine. 432 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: We had good wine, we had no recipe, and we 433 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: had as much time as we wanted. 434 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 3: So it was fun cooking. 435 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: I watched that documentary about her, and I was enthralled 436 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: by that film. It really was a magical an opportunity 437 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: to really get to know somebody you thought you knew. Yes, 438 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: a woman who everybody in this country knew who she was, 439 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean at least of my generation, but you really 440 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: didn't know her when you got to know her. It 441 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: was really really a wonderful film. 442 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: But she was exactly the same way in person that 443 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 3: she was on television. 444 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 1: Now, so when you're in the United States and you 445 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: come here and before you go to Pavion and the 446 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: speaks to also just your patterns throughout your life, whether 447 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: you're in Europe or what have you. Do you like 448 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: to go to restaurants? Do you enjoy eating out or 449 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: do you much more prefer to just cook at home. 450 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: Do you dine out with any regularity or you prefer 451 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: not to both. 452 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 2: I mean I love to cook at home with Fran 453 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 2: occasionally we did last night, but otherwise I love to 454 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 2: go to the restaurant. Of course, I mean usually pretty straightforward restaurant. 455 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: For example, for America, and in the psyche of American 456 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 2: I believe a lot French cooking is understood in the 457 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 2: context of Micheline Star. You know, well, there is twelve 458 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: I think twelve or fourteen three star Micheline in France, 459 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 2: with about seventy eighty two star and about four hundred 460 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: one star. 461 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: The whole star system of the Missionine. 462 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 2: About six hundred restaurant, where there is one hundred and 463 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: sixty eight thousand restaurants in France. All the restaurants that 464 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: I was thinking about, my mother to any of them 465 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: had never been in a three star restaurant in the 466 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: Mishline guide. I'm saying that because in the psyche of 467 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: the American people often they look at French cooking in 468 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: the context of michelan very elegant and. 469 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: Famous high stakes timing, which. 470 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: Is not really it's part of it, but a small 471 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: part to a certain extent. 472 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: Now, for you, when you dine out, what's the first 473 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: thing that you look for in a restaurant that you 474 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: find attractive. 475 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: Well to a certain extent, the service. I mean, you know, 476 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: you get into a restaurant, or you're on the road, 477 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 2: you get into a restaurant. 478 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 3: You go in just looking at the bottom of the 479 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 3: chair or the table, whether. 480 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 2: They are clean or not, the smell of the restaurants 481 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: and all that I'm saying or I'm not saying here. 482 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about famous restaurants. So there is that 483 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: first impression which is very important, and the way you 484 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: received the service to Yeah, those first impressions are very important, 485 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: I think in the restaurant. I mean I used to 486 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: review a fair amount of restaurant with Craig label on 487 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: the New York Times because I knew Craig again when 488 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 2: I came to this country. I mean through the pavilion again, 489 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: so very often to touch job that I would not, in. 490 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 3: Fact, I was broke with the job after he. 491 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: Left and died. I mean that would you be interested? 492 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: I couldn't do that. I mean it's very easy. I 493 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 2: can't tell you fifteen things wrong anywhere that you go, 494 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: but this is not my type of thing. 495 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: And after I know, I would have been. 496 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: Pretty bored and frustrated after you know, a couple of 497 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: weeks on the job. 498 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: Well, for me, my wife and I we go out 499 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: to dinner probably you know, four nights a week because 500 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: it's the only time I have my wife to myself. Right. 501 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: We have to put all the kids to bed and 502 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: I go to dinner with my wife. And my feeling 503 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: about restaurants is, you know, we basically try new things 504 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: every now and then someone will say, oh, you must 505 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: go here, but we go to the same four places 506 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 1: over and over again. I want reliability. I walk in 507 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: that restaurant, I know exactly what I want to get. 508 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 2: Right me too, if I played with it to a 509 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 2: fantastic ROAs Chin, I want to go back there. And 510 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: if I go back there and they say, we don't 511 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 2: do it anymore, so what's going on? 512 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 3: I mean? 513 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: You know, I add, you know, so many twenty three 514 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 2: twenty four thousand restaurants in New York. The amount of 515 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: ethnicity and the choice is unmatched anywhere in the world. 516 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 2: When you find six or eight restaurant that you can 517 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: rely on. If you want Chinese, all this and that, yeah, 518 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 2: of course you go back there. That's what you want, 519 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: and you want the same food. 520 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: Now, are there things you won't eat or did your 521 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: training put you in a place where you eat anything? 522 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a glutton basically. Yeah, I eat anything you 523 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 2: put in front of me. Really, yes, I mean I 524 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: don't really think of anything that I don't like. It changed, 525 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: I mean your metabolism change. At my age, I used. 526 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: To love a large stake. 527 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 2: Now if I have a stick, if I have two 528 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: or three answers a piece of that, that's more than 529 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: enough to still. You know, things change. I eat probably 530 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 2: more soup than I ever did, and other things like that. 531 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 3: The way you cook when you're young chef of and you. 532 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: Add to the plate, you add to the plate. You 533 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: add to the plate to presentation too. And when you 534 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 2: get to be a sertain age. If I have a 535 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: great tomato out of my gardener, the right temperature, you know, 536 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: a bit of salt, it's ripe, A bit of salt, 537 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: bit of a river on top, I don't need more 538 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 2: embellishment on the plate. So I take away, take away 539 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: from the plate to be left with something more essential. 540 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: Not my age, but it's a normal progression with age 541 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 2: and so forth. 542 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean beyond. I want to say this carefully because 543 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to get this say the wrong thing here. 544 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: But it's like, beyond drugs and alcohol and things that 545 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: have a grip on people in this very very powerful way, 546 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: beyond that, there's nothing that has a control of people 547 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: more than food. Oh yeah, food is the most powerful 548 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: reality in our lives. 549 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: There is nothing also will bring people together like food. 550 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: You know, you sit down at the table with people 551 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 2: you don't know to all of a sudden, you know, 552 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: you starting conversation and all that. You may be sitting 553 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: next to the governor on one side and maybe the 554 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: dishwasher of the restaurant on the other side. But if 555 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: really it doesn't matter. I remember traveling in the northern 556 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 2: of Europe, Yugoslavia and so forth, in little village many 557 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 2: many years ago, people look behind the curtain foreigners, you know, 558 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: I mean, you're dangerous. You see it at the bistro 559 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: and you're there by hand. 560 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: If you don't know the language. 561 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: You get the bottle of wine there and whatever bread 562 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 2: to and all of a sudden people sit around you. 563 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: You know, they look at you. You send them a 564 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: bottle of wine and an hour letter. You're speaking unknown 565 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: language with those people because you'll quote normal you know, 566 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: you eat like them or so forth. So food is 567 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 2: very important. One of the most important thing for me 568 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: is probably to follow the season. You know, I mean 569 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 2: the stupo markets seem to be greater and more beautiful 570 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 2: they've ever been. You have through very year round, but 571 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 2: when you test it, and when you go to a 572 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 2: farm by a basket of srowary in full season, you 573 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 2: can see the difference. So it seemed to be very 574 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: plentiful in some ways, but it's not. I mean, following 575 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 2: the season the best thing you can do. That's when 576 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 2: a tomato really tastes good full season, that's when it's 577 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: really cheap too, and when when nutritionally that's when it 578 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 2: the bests for you. So you know, you go to 579 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: those places from the south of France to Sicily or 580 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 2: Sardinia where people live over one hundred years old, they 581 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: eat very simply, but they follow the season simply, have 582 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: a glass of wine and eat you know what's in 583 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: seasons simply, and that's great. 584 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: We had Eric Repair obviously from the Bernadette here on 585 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: the show about a year ago, and when he described 586 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: what it was like when he was young and he 587 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: was in the kitchen. It's a lot of work. Boy, 588 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like it was really, really, really a lot 589 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: of work. 590 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: It was, but we didn't know it was work, you know. 591 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: And as I said at that time, no recipe. The 592 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: chef that you do this, and if you say why, 593 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: you would have said because I just told you. 594 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 3: Right. 595 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: So I work for a year on an apprenticeship cleaning 596 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: the floor, and then started scaling fish, killing chicken at 597 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: the time we killed chicken, pop chicken, rabbit, scaling fish 598 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 2: too without just by looking and doing it. And then 599 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: when the earlier the chef told me you started the 600 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: stove tomorrow started the stove. 601 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: They only get close to the stof to put wood. 602 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: And calling it at that when it was now and 603 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: I work at the stove, and I knew how to 604 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: do it through osmosis, you know, at that time, the 605 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: repeat and so forth. 606 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 3: So that was a different way of learning as we 607 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: do now. 608 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 2: You know, I've been dinner at the French Culinariantitute in 609 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: New York for twenty five years. That I teach at 610 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: BU for forty three years, I think. So now you 611 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: teach Chatali differently. The key first are usually coming from 612 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: not only high school but often college, so they want 613 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: to know more totally different than the way I was 614 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: told when I was thirteen fourteen, do this, do that 615 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: that said? 616 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: You know, going back to when you were talking about 617 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: a great tomato. What you see is I live on 618 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: Long Island in the summer. We're out there for the summer, 619 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: my family, and these farmers' markets where it seems like 620 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: people will pay just about anything to have a basket 621 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: of something of the season. We have a garden in 622 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: our house. We have a woman who comes. She prepares 623 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: the garden, and then she texts me and says, here's 624 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: what's ready to pick. The Japanese egg plant is ready 625 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: to pick. The flowers are ready to pick. We've got 626 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: a decent sized garden and my family I got, like 627 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: I said, I got seven kids, my wife, and I 628 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: of some people who help us. We can't eat everything 629 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: that comes out of that garden. 630 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 2: I did two soup this summer with cucumber. It's almost 631 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: I put it, took the seat out of it, put 632 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: it in the food processor and rucifi it salt paper 633 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: and I mixed that with a bloody Marry remix. There 634 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: is I had a guess pastio right there, and I 635 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: did another one the same way, but then mix it 636 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: with the with yogurt and mint to do yogot soup 637 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: during the summer. So often the recipe come from that 638 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: overabundance of the things that you have. 639 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: Chef Jacques Pepin, if you're enjoying this conversation, tell a 640 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on 641 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 642 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: When we come back, Jacques Papass shares how a near 643 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: fatal car accident changed the course of his life. I'm 644 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Chef 645 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: Jacques Papa's career boasts a seemingly endless list of accomplishments, 646 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: from cooking for multiple heads of state to creating the 647 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: culinary certificate program at Boston University. That's why I wanted 648 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: to know why he chose to go back to school, 649 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: earning his bachelor's and master's degrees from Columbia University in 650 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: his adulthood. 651 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 3: We're to start with Atle Skuluhn. 652 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: I was thirteen years old, so there was always often 653 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: in the kitchen that complex about not having an education. 654 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 3: You know and all that. 655 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: So I saw that even as I said, when I 656 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 2: was at Howard Johnan, for example, I was with Pia Fredde. 657 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: Pierre Frede was a fantastic chef, great guy. He started 658 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: working like I did, but he never went back to 659 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 2: college after he was here. And I remember mister Johnson 660 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: junior there who was at Cornell. He used to come 661 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: with his other kid the sandwich two twenty three. They 662 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: come out of college, and I know that Pierre was mpressed, 663 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 2: didn't know what to do, when in fact they knew 664 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: nothing about cooking or anything. At that time, I was 665 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 2: already in the graduate school at Columbia. So a one 666 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: time pressed by them, So it changed your mentality, you know. 667 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 2: As I said, one time I gave the commandment address 668 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: at Columbia. Actually, and I said a quote I think 669 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: from Somerset Mohan, which the education is very important. Without 670 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: an education, you're likely to fall in the deadly danger 671 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 2: of taking educated people seriously. 672 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 3: So it's true to a certain extent. 673 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: You know, I would never have been able to do 674 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: everything that I've done without the education I get at Columbia. 675 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: And I went to Columbia from nineteen fifty nine to 676 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three seventy three, Appropot a doctoral dissertation on 677 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: an history of food in the context Civil edition literature, 678 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: and at that time to me, are you crazy? 679 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 3: Food? Now we cannot accept that. So I left. 680 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: That's crazy. 681 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 3: Actually I want to be you and you got your 682 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 3: doctorate there. Yeah, Columbia still gave me a PhD. 683 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 2: Letter. I think it's another world, the world of food now, 684 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 2: I mean the way we get respect and all that. 685 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: And I have to say that American chefs start later 686 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: than what it used to be thirteen years old in 687 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: Europe and so forth, so they usually go to school today, 688 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: are more educated too, so it's a different business. They 689 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: get much more into business now. So many chefs that 690 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: I know from Daniel bul have six seven eight restaurants. 691 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 2: I never did that type of thing. I don't think 692 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: that I would have been very good at that. I'm 693 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: not very good at business in general. 694 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 3: So, but the chef now is that much more larger 695 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 3: person than it used to be. 696 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: So a couple of quick things that I want to 697 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: touch on. So you were in a very serious car accident, yes, 698 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: and this was back in what. 699 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 3: Year nineteen seventy four? 700 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 2: You know, I tried to avoid idea of falling arriving 701 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: tree and I had twelve fourteen fracture, and so I 702 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: broke my back in three places, my two hip leg arm. 703 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 3: They thought that I would live, They thought that I 704 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 3: would walk again. 705 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,479 Speaker 2: And in fact, one of the first things my wife 706 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: signed removal of the left town. The left town. There 707 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 2: was only this is a good thing. They didn't cut 708 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: it off. So yeah, that kind of changed my life too. 709 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 2: It pushed me in the direction of writing about food. 710 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 2: You know, I did for the New York Times. 711 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: You couldn't stand in the kitchen for very long. 712 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 2: Obviously, Well I can, but you know, not like back then, 713 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: all the time, every day, six hours. 714 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 3: It's pretty taxing, you know. So of course, yeah, so 715 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 3: that changed. 716 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: Changed your life in an important way. I want you 717 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: to mention two things. Your new cookbook is called what. 718 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 3: Cooking My Way? 719 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: I think you know, I did thirteenth theery of PBS show, 720 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: And each time there is a theme. So each time 721 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: you have a book with a different theme. And that's 722 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 2: what I have so many books. I even did a 723 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 2: book for the Cleveland Clinic for Caldiac version wet loss. 724 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: So you put your knowledge of food to a very 725 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 2: specific area in the New York Time for eight ten 726 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: years that I had a column called The Purposeful Cook, 727 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: which was to cook for a family of six from 728 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: a minimum amount of money. So there the idea was 729 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 2: economy in the kitchen. So this is a bit of 730 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: the same theme that I took back here. But I've 731 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 2: been very lucky with all the books that I've done, 732 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 2: and with PBS and so forth. 733 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: So you've had an amazingly broad career. It's incredible. 734 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: I'm very lucky. 735 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: Which brings me to you said you just turned eighty eight. Yeah, yesterday, 736 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: So yesterday was your birthday, your eighty eight. Which I 737 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: have many friends, many friends who are older than I am. 738 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: I'm sixty five, and my friends who were in their 739 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: late seventies around in the corner toward eighty, who have 740 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: great careers. They're like, they're never going to retire, Like, well, 741 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: this is who I am, this is what I do. 742 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: Retirement it's death. 743 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 3: If you love what you're doing, you never have to 744 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 3: go to work. 745 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: Fantastic, fantastic. Now, one more thing. Your foundation describe to 746 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: us when you started that what the mission of the 747 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: foundation is. 748 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was actually my son in law, my daughter 749 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 2: does Facebook for me, my son in law does instide 750 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 2: gramble of though its a professor Johnson and weel it's 751 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 2: actually a professional chef forty years but then he went 752 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 2: back to Johnson and weell to teach and get his 753 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: master and get a PhD. So at some point about 754 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 2: five six years ago, he told me, you know you've 755 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 2: been teaching all your life. Who do you think you 756 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: would like to teach now? So we talked about it. 757 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: I said, you know people who have been a bit 758 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 2: these enfranchised by life. You know, people who come out 759 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: of jail, you know, homeless people form a drug addict, 760 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 2: even veteran. So I feel that in six weeks, with 761 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: the video that we are teaching and all that, in 762 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 2: six weeks, I could teach someone in the kitchen, if 763 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 2: they're interested, how to pier on your properly, or to 764 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: pilasi argus, how to push on egg and then you 765 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: know the basic and if you like it and keep 766 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 2: at it, Fabio, there may be other chef there. You know, 767 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: you're in charge now at the kitchen, and you make 768 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 2: good money and it kind of redo your life. So 769 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 2: they are not necessarily young people in the organization you know, 770 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 2: a lot of forty fifty people. But we work through 771 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 2: community kitchen a bit all over the country and it's 772 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: been quite rewarding, and we need people like that. 773 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,479 Speaker 3: In the kitchen, you know, to work. 774 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I must say what a great honor it 775 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: is for me to meet you. It is an honor. 776 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,280 Speaker 1: I'm a great admirer of yours. 777 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 3: A great honor for me. I wanted to tell you. 778 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 3: I have to say. Yeah. 779 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: My daughter and my son in law and my granddaughter, 780 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: they love you. 781 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 3: Thank you, sir, thank you, happy cooking. 782 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: My thanks to Jacques Papin. More information about the Jacques 783 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: Pepin Foundation can be found at jp dot Foundation. This 784 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. 785 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hoben. 786 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is 787 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought 788 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio.