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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets Podcasting.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is a man who food needs an introduction,

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Speaker 1: a man who's played every role of the music business,

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Speaker 1: the one and only Irving as of Irving. Good to

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Speaker 1: have you here, thrilled to be here, Abob. So what's

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Speaker 1: really going on with the live business? Are we back?

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Speaker 1: Are we not back? Are we gonna have to have

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Speaker 1: vaccine passports? How do you see it? We're not gonna

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Speaker 1: have vaccine passports. Um. The thing that you know has

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Speaker 1: has unimpressed me, shall we say, is as we were

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Speaker 1: in the in the depths of this, there was all

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Speaker 1: this talk about all these people running around, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have testing machines, and can you test a person every

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Speaker 1: twenty seconds or ninety seconds before they walk in the building,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna require that before we can go. And

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Speaker 1: then it was we're gonna have you're gonna have a

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Speaker 1: put on your device, you know, a vaccine passport. And

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Speaker 1: and what I'm finding is none of the above. When

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Speaker 1: you go to a venue I've been doing, a well

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Speaker 1: known venue called Staples Center for a Laker basketball game. UM,

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Speaker 1: and you arrive and they say, uh, I need to

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Speaker 1: see your vaccine card. Okay, then you pull out your

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Speaker 1: phone and a guy looks at it for about ten seconds.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't match your name against the card or anything. So um,

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Speaker 1: you know, our government blue wear masks, don't wear masks,

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Speaker 1: wash your hands, don't wash your hands. And now they've

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Speaker 1: blown you know, at all levels, federal, state health. We

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Speaker 1: have no plan. It's it's it's total chaos out there.

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Speaker 1: So I think it hurts consumer confidence on whether it

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Speaker 1: attend to show. Um. And you know, that's just you know,

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Speaker 1: in addition to you know, musicians basically being the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the heap uh in terms of um assistance, financial

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Speaker 1: assistance for their cruise and them during this pandemic um,

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Speaker 1: they haven't even come up with a decent plan to

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Speaker 1: protect us, or protect the fans or give people confidence

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Speaker 1: to come back to shows. Now, does that mean that

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Speaker 1: people aren't going to come? Of course they're gonna come,

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Speaker 1: but they're not. I don't think they're gonna come um

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Speaker 1: in the numbers that they would have had we had

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Speaker 1: a cohesive vaccination passport plan. So are there any issues

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Speaker 1: of liability in the behalf of the promoter of the act?

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Speaker 1: Is are you hesitant to book your acts until you

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Speaker 1: see what ultimately plays out. Look, it's the it's the wild,

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Speaker 1: wild West. Um. I don't think anybody's really worried about liability,

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Speaker 1: you know. And we've got some states all already passing

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Speaker 1: no liability laws. Um, California, who had the strictest um

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Speaker 1: lockdown laws. UM. Now suddenly, as I understand it, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to go into a music venue, UM, it's

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Speaker 1: the honor system. You have to say, I've either been

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Speaker 1: vaccinated or tested in the last forty eight hours. Uh

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Speaker 1: so you know what, what's what's somebody gonna sue for

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Speaker 1: that for I mean, you know it's crazy, okay, But

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Speaker 1: in terms of booking your acts, where you that where

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Speaker 1: were you on that one of your acts going to

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Speaker 1: start hitting the boards? The gardens opening Medison Square Gardens

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Speaker 1: opening June seventeenth with the Food Fighters that that that

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Speaker 1: was up and sold out already, the second shows in

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Speaker 1: the Garden or the Eagles in August, I think two

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Speaker 1: and two. Um, there's an announcement coming at the Forum

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Speaker 1: for a mid July date. UM. So you know, Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Buffett's opening his tour in July eighth in Nashville. Um,

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Speaker 1: people are going you know and um and uh it's

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Speaker 1: hard if you're a you know on a level arena

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Speaker 1: or stadium act that you have to go build a

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Speaker 1: huge production because you can't be sure, um of what

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Speaker 1: of what's going to happen. So you know, the you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: they're really the really big tours are being very wary.

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Speaker 1: Most of them are just holding off until next year. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about your management company. Who started in management?

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Speaker 1: Explain it to me. Jeffrey runs it, where are you involved, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But we're a private company, Bob, so we're not big

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Speaker 1: on titles, so nobody really runs it. Um. We're a

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Speaker 1: group of very talented managers. Um. And and you know

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Speaker 1: we have teams of people on each account. But you know,

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Speaker 1: a managed you can't run a management business like a

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Speaker 1: real business, you know, I mean, as you know, as

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Speaker 1: you know, most of us in the business don't feel

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Speaker 1: that we really have jobs. You know, we really do

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Speaker 1: this because we love it. Um. But yeah, my my

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Speaker 1: son Jeffrey is very talented. I think he's one of

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Speaker 1: the best managers I've ever known. So yeah, he's he's

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Speaker 1: got a group of managers around him who have been

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Speaker 1: incredibly successful. Okay, so, uh at full Stop is what

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Speaker 1: the management company is called. Now, what's the derivation of that?

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Speaker 1: Why is it called full stop? Um? Full Stop was

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Speaker 1: a company founded by Harry Styles and Jeffrey. Aesof that

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Speaker 1: merged with I don't know what was I calling mine?

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Speaker 1: He's off music management, I think, and and that, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know who needs you know, we don't have a

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Speaker 1: case of Geff and I justs we didn't need the

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Speaker 1: name on the door, so full stop was full stop

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Speaker 1: was fine? So I love the name. Okay, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of an English term, you know, from in the war.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the at the end

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Speaker 1: of the wires that would come in, it would say

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Speaker 1: full stop. That's how you knew when it was over.

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Speaker 1: So I I don't know the derivation. There's something English

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Speaker 1: about it. You'd have to ask carrier Jeffrey. Okay, how

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Speaker 1: many acts are under the full Stop banner at this

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Speaker 1: particular point in time, I don't know. I never counted.

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Speaker 1: We don't publish artist rosters. I really don't know. Twenty thirty, fifty,

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Speaker 1: I don't know more than I'd say closer to thirty

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Speaker 1: than twenty or fifty. Okay, how many people work for

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Speaker 1: full Stop? I don't know, what is this? The I

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Speaker 1: R S. I mean, what's going on here? Bob? No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: why would the things people want to know? I'm not

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Speaker 1: writing it down to, you know, to write a book.

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Speaker 1: It's just to get an idea. I would guess there

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Speaker 1: are far more people that work there than clients, so

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Speaker 1: you know, probably maybe are they all there in Westwood

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Speaker 1: at this point or is everybody spread out? Uh? We

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Speaker 1: were spread out before, you know. Uh, but um, it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting because if you go into a management office

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the summer especially, and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people there, you know it's not going well

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Speaker 1: because we by nature touring being you know, a vast

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Speaker 1: majority of the earnings, uh, for our artists. You most

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Speaker 1: people are on the road. People are out, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: so you know, we don't care where people live. We've

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Speaker 1: got people. We've got people in Nashville, We've got people

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Speaker 1: New York, we got people in Scottsdale. People you know,

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Speaker 1: people living up in the Bay Area, people living in

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Speaker 1: the desert. Okay, needless, just say you are the most

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Speaker 1: experienced manager extant. To what degree are you focused on

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Speaker 1: mentoring the other people at full Stop or it's pretty

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Speaker 1: much everybody going their own way and just gleaning your

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Speaker 1: great moves and acting accordingly. Um uh, we think we

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Speaker 1: have an incredible culture. UM. You know, this isn't Frontline

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Speaker 1: Management where we you know, um, which as you know

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Speaker 1: because we've talked about it a lot, but for your listeners,

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Speaker 1: we may not have when you know. When we you know,

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Speaker 1: Frontline Management was founded at a time when there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of consolidation going on the business and I was

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Speaker 1: starting over in the management business after having left the

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Speaker 1: record business, and and we found that no matter how

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Speaker 1: big the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac were, you weren't going

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Speaker 1: to fight the consolidation in the business. UM. So we

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Speaker 1: got other like manded managers to that we acquired or

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Speaker 1: merged with. UM. But full Stop is a business that's

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Speaker 1: been grown out of culture, so we're not interested in

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Speaker 1: acquiring other managers. We kind of it's all everything's homegrown,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. We've got incredible people and managers who

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Speaker 1: have worked up through the rants. It's a great place

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Speaker 1: for for somebody interested in the managing business to work

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Speaker 1: because you're gonna you're gonna grow and you're gonna learn

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Speaker 1: it and you're gonna you're gonna become successful and wealthy

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Speaker 1: doing it. But we have a culture. Um. You know.

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Speaker 1: Rule one is always make the right decision for your

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Speaker 1: artists and it will be the right decision for your business.

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Speaker 1: So you don't think short term, We think long term.

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Speaker 1: Rule two is see rule one. UM, And that's uh,

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of how how we run it. You know,

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Speaker 1: none of us can sell a ticket. Um. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: we love it. And if you don't, you know, my

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Speaker 1: advice is, if you don't love artists and the craziest

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Speaker 1: that comes with it, don't do it. Let's talk about average,

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Speaker 1: which you referenced. You famously lined up certain clients so

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Speaker 1: you had power against the labels or Visa Viva labels.

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Speaker 1: Same deal. When Live Nation then called Clear Channel was

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Speaker 1: moving up, you helped form a competitor a g. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell us about those experiences in your strategies? Um,

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Speaker 1: it was survival. I mean back in those days, it

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Speaker 1: was shrinking from like twelve to five record labels. Now

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Speaker 1: we're basically down to the three majors, but with some

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Speaker 1: wonderful independent action going on now outside of it, Um,

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Speaker 1: there was big consolidation at retail, you know, because this

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Speaker 1: was even precede you know, it was even pre c

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Speaker 1: d s in early days of c ds when we

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Speaker 1: when we did that, and there was consolidation and promoters,

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Speaker 1: you know, because Bob Sullerman, which was the primary it

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Speaker 1: wasn't really about the labels as much as it was

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Speaker 1: the live side of the business. And Bob Sullerman had

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Speaker 1: come along and you know, and rolled up a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of these big promoters and sold them to Clear

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Speaker 1: Channel Radio. Uh and in those days called Clear Channel. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and I woke up one day, uh, and I'd

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Speaker 1: restarted my business, and I believe I was managing the

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Speaker 1: Eagles and Journey. And I got into a big beef

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Speaker 1: with a couple of promoters that were running Clear Channel

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Speaker 1: at the time, who are my friends who had done

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Speaker 1: business with for thirty years. And I said, I gotta

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Speaker 1: get bigger fast, or I'm not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to you know, no matter how you know, I should

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Speaker 1: I should quit because I can't I can't get fair

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Speaker 1: deals for my artists. UM. So that's that was the

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Speaker 1: the reason for putting together front Line And what about

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Speaker 1: helping in the creation of a g um that was

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Speaker 1: that was the level of playing field as well in

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Speaker 1: those days. And you know Tim lay Wicky who UM

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Speaker 1: who I met when he was building staples UM understood

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Speaker 1: the content game and said we want to be in it.

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Speaker 1: And I felt that. And I had invested in a

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Speaker 1: company called Concerts West, not the original Big Concerts West,

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Speaker 1: but some guys that are in Gongo area and Meglan

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Speaker 1: who had split off from the origin know when Concerts

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Speaker 1: West folded and Terry Bassett gave them the name so

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Speaker 1: that the company name would go on. So I I

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Speaker 1: had invested in those guys, and in those days I

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Speaker 1: had invested in Golden Voice in Coachella, UM, and then

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Speaker 1: we kind of put together Golden Voice Coachella and UH

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Speaker 1: Concerts West to start a g live. Okay, let's stay

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Speaker 1: with a live business. This is a business where those

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Speaker 1: on the inside know what's going on, those on the

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Speaker 1: outside are clueless. Ticket masters paid to take the heat.

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Speaker 1: But as a manager, we've discussed a number of issues

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Speaker 1: relative to the buildings, tickets on the manifest, what leverage

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Speaker 1: their employing. Can you go a little deeper into that,

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Speaker 1: UM tickets on the manifest off the man of what

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Speaker 1: you want to know. Yeah, we were taught. We were

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Speaker 1: talking that the buildings are withholding tickets and wanting certain

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Speaker 1: commitments in order to take the data for you to

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Speaker 1: play the date. Um there were you know, Bob, it's

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Speaker 1: really been cleaned up recently over the years though. Um.

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Speaker 1: So like if you if you landed on Earth from Mars,

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Speaker 1: how a record contract has written or paid, or how

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Speaker 1: a live contract has written or paid, It would never

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Speaker 1: look this way. When Fred rosen Um took over and

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Speaker 1: and made and switched, we had a company in those

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Speaker 1: old days called Tickettron that he kind of put out

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Speaker 1: a business. And the difference between Tickettron and ticket Master

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Speaker 1: was it was an all in ticket price went during

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Speaker 1: the Tickettron days and then you would pay them a

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Speaker 1: dollar and a half or two bucks for selling your ticket.

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Speaker 1: Rosen came along and said to the buildings, instead of

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Speaker 1: you paying a dollar and a half to two bucks

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Speaker 1: to Tickettron, I'll pay you, but I'm gonna put a

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Speaker 1: service charge on top. So he they inflated the price

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Speaker 1: of tickets and and basically took a piece of the

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Speaker 1: artist gross and and start paying the buildings. So then

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Speaker 1: you know, so as things happen. So then we as

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Speaker 1: managers and agents then said okay, but we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: pay you rent. Right, So then when we weren't paying

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Speaker 1: them rent, they said, okay, but we've got these seats

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Speaker 1: that we sold as I don't know, sponsor seats, club seats,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever, wherever you want to call them, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and that's what helped us finance the

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Speaker 1: improvements on our buildings. So those seats don't exist, meaning yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna they're sold and we're gonna put people in them,

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Speaker 1: but they're sold by the year. And then suddenly buildings

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Speaker 1: started with sweets. So so through the years, it's just

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Speaker 1: a moving of the same money around. Okay, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, a standard or nine five deal with an artist,

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Speaker 1: if promoter had to live off of just that, um,

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Speaker 1: there'd be no you know, there would be no live nation,

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Speaker 1: there be no age, either be no promoters. So so

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Speaker 1: then it comes down to, oh, but we have to

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Speaker 1: have rebates and we have to have ticket service fees,

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Speaker 1: and we have. Then then somebody invented the facility fee,

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Speaker 1: which was supposed to pay a state government or something

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Speaker 1: attacks but it wasn't attacked. It was to pay off

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Speaker 1: your loan for having built the building. But no, no,

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Speaker 1: two buildings have the same economics. But um, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: since you know, listen, um, Michael Rapino is committed to

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Speaker 1: a fair count okay, and and between him, um and

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Speaker 1: and pressure and and look, buildings are not the enemy.

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Speaker 1: You know, Buildings don't make nearly the kind of money

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Speaker 1: that people think, okay, So um, And there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that would take tickets off the manifest you know,

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Speaker 1: in this order, I would say the um, the stub

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Speaker 1: hubs of the world are the are the worst, okay,

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Speaker 1: because they have no skin in the game, and they've

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Speaker 1: got people that get ahold of tickets and they take

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Speaker 1: a big chunk um. You know, buildings taking tickets, you know,

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Speaker 1: manifests tickets off the manifest except you know that's kind

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Speaker 1: of gone away, especially for a big act, okay. And

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Speaker 1: then of course you've got acts that are doing it themselves.

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Speaker 1: So um, it's a while wild west out there. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So let's today today. If you play an arena fifteen

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Speaker 1: thousand seats, how many of those seats are in the

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Speaker 1: deal with the act? And how many just never show off? Well,

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Speaker 1: I can. I can tell you at the Forum, every

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Speaker 1: seats on the manifest. Okay, I can tell you that, UM,

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Speaker 1: in most buildings, every seats on the manifest except for

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Speaker 1: the sweets. Okay. Now, on a big show they might

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Speaker 1: try and put four extra stools and the suits and

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Speaker 1: sell them. But the buildings are being really cool now,

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Speaker 1: so they're kind of telling you and they're gonna they're

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Speaker 1: gonna pay you or split that money with you on

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Speaker 1: those seats. Um, it's it's gotten cleaned, it's gotten a

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Speaker 1: lot cleaned up. There are there are a few buildings,

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Speaker 1: uh that still have some some some unmanifested seats. And

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Speaker 1: their claim is, look, the way we built this building

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Speaker 1: was with the money from these suite holders. We took

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Speaker 1: these massive, several thousand dollar year commitment for people to

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Speaker 1: have these suits, and that's what allowed us to go

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Speaker 1: have the money to go get financed so we can

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Speaker 1: build the building. UM and and what so, So what

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Speaker 1: goes on is with the exception of the suites, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty clean out there with the buildings. Now there's a

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Speaker 1: few and what they claim is well for the suites

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Speaker 1: that are behind the stage and can't see, that's why

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Speaker 1: we have these unmanifested seats to move these people down there.

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Speaker 1: But of course we find them listed on the secondary

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Speaker 1: a lot of times, and you don't know if it

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Speaker 1: was the guys in the suite that listed it or

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Speaker 1: the building that listed it. But every time we find that,

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Speaker 1: we clean it up real quickly. And all in all,

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Speaker 1: the building sign of the business is very clean, The

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Speaker 1: ticketmaster side of the business is very clean. The secondary

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Speaker 1: is very dirty. Okay, before we get to the secondary,

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Speaker 1: let's just just you talk. Can you explain since you

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Speaker 1: certainly worked at Live Nation where the profit verticals for

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Speaker 1: the promoter um, Well, at Live Nation they have a

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Speaker 1: wonderful sponsor, you know, have the sponsorship branding arm um

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Speaker 1: is you know they're allowing you know that that isn't shared, okay,

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Speaker 1: so that they make their money that way they you

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Speaker 1: know then and certainly when they own venues, they're making

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Speaker 1: it off the popcorn and the beer in the parking

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Speaker 1: and and and stuff like that. But on the straight

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Speaker 1: promoter line, the money, the money's you know, the money's made,

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Speaker 1: you know, off a piece off a piece of the ticket. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's the status of the secondary market today? And uh,

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Speaker 1: we'll see post COVID, you know um stub Hub and

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Speaker 1: those you know whereas Live Nation and a g. When

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Speaker 1: COVID hit, we're saying, if you'd like a refund, here's

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Speaker 1: your cash. Stub Hub basically issued credits. Okay, So coming

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Speaker 1: out of COVID, I'm hoping these guys have maybe shot

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Speaker 1: themselves at the foot because when the consumer realizes that

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Speaker 1: he can't get his cash back from these people, maybe

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Speaker 1: people will realizing for the pariahs that they are. Now.

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Speaker 1: You certainly come up with ways to beat the scalpers.

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Speaker 1: You came up with Platinum, and you told me once

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Speaker 1: you know, find someone who complains about paying you know,

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Speaker 1: five sit in the first ten rows for the Eagles.

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Speaker 1: You can't find them, so well he well here look here,

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Speaker 1: here's what it is. You gotta price your tickets, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're an act and you think your

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Speaker 1: your fans gonna love you more because you charge less money,

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Speaker 1: and then somebody buys six tickets and gives and sells

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Speaker 1: four of them on the secondary. You know, when when

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Speaker 1: you go to a concert you don't turn it's not

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Speaker 1: you know, when you get on an airplane, you don't

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Speaker 1: get to the person next to you and say how

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Speaker 1: much did you pay for your ticket? I paid more

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Speaker 1: than you. Oh I'm piste off. It's just a fact

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Speaker 1: alive when you when you walk into building, nobody turns

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Speaker 1: to the guy next and says where did you get

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Speaker 1: your ticket and how much did you pay? They just

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00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: know what they paid and whether they thought it was

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Speaker 1: worth it, you know. And the great thing is that

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Speaker 1: we can dynamically price now. And if you if an

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Speaker 1: act will price their tickets right, so you have a

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Speaker 1: chance to charge in the upper deck and the seats

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Speaker 1: behind the stage a very small amount of money so

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Speaker 1: that more of your real fans they can pick where

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Speaker 1: they want to sit in the building, where what they

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Speaker 1: can afford um. And you know, if if acts would

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Speaker 1: just price their tickets right, the only people that ever

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Speaker 1: complain about tickets being priced too high were the press

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Speaker 1: who got their tickets for free anyway, you know, And

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Speaker 1: and and you know, we're in a new era where

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Speaker 1: more and more acts are not afraid to price their

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Speaker 1: tickets right. Platinum, it's just that's just pricing your tickets right.

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Speaker 1: Only when you when you go on Ticketmaster, it says

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Speaker 1: it's a hundred and fifty dollar and a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy five dollar ticket, but they know to go to

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Speaker 1: Platinum and there's some five hundred dollar tickets. It's just

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Speaker 1: in a way for an act to say I didn't

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Speaker 1: charge five hundred dollars from my tickets. They're fucking kidding themselves. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about e g g. The Oakview Group. What exactly

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Speaker 1: is ov G uh. Oak View Group is a a

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Speaker 1: company that's primarily owned by Tim Lwicky, UH, the light

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Speaker 1: Wicky family and the Asa family. UH, funded with and

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Speaker 1: partnered with silver Lake, A wonderful UM one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest private equity companies in the world. UM. And we

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Speaker 1: have UM UM. We're committed to building new arenas and

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Speaker 1: maybe other kinds of venues at some point UM and

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Speaker 1: taking over certain existing arenas and renovating them. And what

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Speaker 1: we're committed is to, you know, buildings that are built

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Speaker 1: UM for the future, not the past. For instance, in

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Speaker 1: our you know, in our buildings, UH, you know, you've

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Speaker 1: got a sports tenant, seailar being one backstage and music

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Speaker 1: being at afterthought where you just get to go use

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Speaker 1: the visiting team visiting NBA or hockey teams dressing room.

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Speaker 1: There's full sets of dressing rooms like at the Forum

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Speaker 1: for music and a full set addressing rooms for sports. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to say that music is a tenant and

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00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 1: just as important as sports. UM and UH and the

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Speaker 1: right and the right mix of premium and great experiences

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Speaker 1: in the building. People want experience more than just the

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Speaker 1: concert now in a building, so UM, you know. And

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Speaker 1: we were opening in Seattle in mid October. We're opening

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Speaker 1: in New York at the at UBA you know ubs

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Speaker 1: Belmont Park, the home of the Islanders. Seattle's the home

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00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: of the Kraken. UH. And we're opening in in Austin

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Speaker 1: in April of UM and then the next couple to

387
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 1: come online or Manchester, England and Palm Springs, California. Now

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Speaker 1: haven't you also UH created a group of buildings where

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Speaker 1: you share information and there are other initiatives you have

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00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: as a whole. Yeah, the the Arena Alliance. So if

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Speaker 1: you're a big national brand, you're probably not going to

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Speaker 1: just go to Salt Lake. And if you're if you're Walmart,

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00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to go do a dealing. You know,

394
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Speaker 1: you don't have anybody in the field there's gonna Walmart's

395
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: going to do a deal with the building in Salt Lake. Okay,

396
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: they like to buy nationally. So you've got these billionaires

397
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: that known the hockey and the NBA teams, but they're

398
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: not getting any national brands. So what we do is

399
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: people for people like pet Smart and Walmart you know

400
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: there we offer it to all our buildings. Were able

401
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: to create national in you know, national brand income for

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00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: these buildings that they wouldn't have. And we share information

403
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: for routing purposes, um and you know, and and and

404
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So we help these buildings get booked. Um,

405
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: we help them on you know, as we went through

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Speaker 1: the COVID protocol. We're you know, we help people through

407
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: their safety stuff. It's it's a consulting arm um and

408
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: and um, you know we're not you know, the Arena

409
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: Alliance are not promoters. Um. You know, we don't book

410
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: the buildings. They booked themselves. But we you know, we

411
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Speaker 1: we make sure to get all the information out out

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Speaker 1: for them. Um. But we but we're creating these national brands.

413
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: It's it's it's castlow positive in each building. Okay, let's

414
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: go back to silver Lake. Silver Lake, you know, huge

415
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: venture firm. They ultimately want their money back, whether it

416
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: be going public or someone replacing them. Is that sort

417
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: of built into the ov G relationship? M No, it's not. Okay,

418
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: And they haven't said they're they're they're savvy investors. Um,

419
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 1: they're just encouraging us to grow the business because they

420
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: like what we what they say. Okay, let's talk about

421
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: selling just in general, not just ov G. You certainly

422
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: of someone who has sold your management company a number

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00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: of times, and you've represented people who sold things. When

424
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: do you think you should sell? And when do you

425
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: think you should hold on? You know, Um, there's a

426
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: lot of questions to go into that, um, family estate

427
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: planning being one. Uh. And you know, and and are

428
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 1: their errors around to to keep running these companies that

429
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: want to do it and that you believe and can

430
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: do it um uh And you know, and but if

431
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: you're building brands for your artists, most of those people

432
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: are building it to sell. So if that's what you're that,

433
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: that's what you're referring to. But you know, UM, we

434
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: never start a business going hey, we're gonna sell this.

435
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: It just happens. Um. But in terms of in terms

436
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: of the management business, I never you know, I merged

437
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: more than I sold. You know, we merged people together

438
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: in front Line. Uh, then we merged with Ticketmaster. Then

439
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: we merged Ticketmaster in front Line with Live Nation. Um

440
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: so you know, so then when I left, um, you know,

441
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: Frontline State. So that group of manager stayed and I

442
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: started over. Yeah. But also when you went to m

443
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: c A, didn't they pay you for front Line? About

444
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: three years in they paid me for front one. They

445
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: bought front one. What was what was the logic of

446
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: three years? Uh? There was a new existing consent decree

447
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: from the old m c A days. Um, they didn't.

448
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: They didn't want me spending my dame and my time

449
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: on management. I would have been happy not to sell.

450
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: They wanted me to spend all my time. You know

451
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: at that point I was running the record company, we

452
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: were building amphitheaters, I was running their video business. Uh.

453
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 1: They didn't want me compromised and you know, running around

454
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: to shows all over the world. Okay, let's go back

455
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: to the cell. If someone is not a state planning

456
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: and you represent that act. Now with these huge multiples

457
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: for publishing catalogs, what do you tell them? Um, there's

458
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: a lot of questions you have to ask people. Do

459
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: you have airs. Do you hate your kids? Are you

460
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: worried that your kids are gonna screw up your legacy?

461
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: Do you have things you want to buy? Uh? Even

462
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: at these multiples, if you're just gonna take the money

463
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: and throw it in treasury bills or stuff that's really safe,

464
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: your cash flow every year is the same or more

465
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: holding right, But if you really want to, you know,

466
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: have things that you want to buy with the money,

467
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: or you know, for guys in their mid seventies that

468
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: are that are struggling to make ends meet, they can't

469
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: tour anymore, why shouldn't they sell for a big, huge check? Okay,

470
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: I don't you know? And then again for guys like

471
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: Ryan Tedder who are as hot as hell, are going

472
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: to write more hits, you know, if his family can

473
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: enjoy the benefits of him selling his what he's written

474
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: to date because he knows he's gonna sell, you know,

475
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: write more going forward? Why not? It works for some people,

476
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: doesn't work for others. But as you're seeing, whether you're

477
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: Paul Simon or you're Neil Young or you're Bob Dylan, Um,

478
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: you know these people are you know, I understand every

479
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: one of them wanting to sell and why And as

480
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, you know, we're, um, it's not our primary business.

481
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: But when you know, um, i'd rather my family um

482
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: own royalties from the works of the Beach Boys or

483
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: Linda Ronstad or or David Crosby. Then uh, you know,

484
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: by a Treasury bill. So that's why I'm in that business. Okay,

485
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about iconic. Uh you have relationships with those

486
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: three entities. Do you own them a hundred percent? Is

487
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: it your personal money? Is it somebody else's money? We

488
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: uh on on the on the Beach Boys were a

489
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: partnership with the Beach Boys, with us being the controlling

490
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: partner in certain in certain masters, recorded music, flow, royalties, publishing, writing.

491
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: It depends down. You know. They have a very complex thing.

492
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: So we kind of we're so we're the controlling shareholder there. Um.

493
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: In the case of Linda Ronstadt, um, we bought her

494
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: masters and her flow of her recording income. Uh. And

495
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: in the case of David Crosby, we bought his recording

496
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: in his and his publishing and writing. Now I need

497
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: to say, there are a lot of elderly classic rock

498
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: legendary acts. You have three, how many might you ultimately

499
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: end up with? I don't know we um uh. You know,

500
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: obviously the return on investment is not good if you

501
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: just pay a percent cash for these things. So we

502
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: were fortunate enough um to be able to get some

503
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: debt rated uh and sold some debt to a company

504
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: that likes to own debt so that you know, we

505
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: have UM a substantial line of credit in that area too.

506
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: You know, we put up, we put up some some equity.

507
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: But then we have we don't know, you don't borrow

508
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: and anything, but UM, so we have so we have

509
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: resources available and when we see the right things. UM,

510
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: we'll announce a couple more deals soon. But you know

511
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: they're all very predictable. There might you know, so far

512
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: I am done. I haven't done a deal with the client.

513
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's been with friends. UM. But they're predictable deals.

514
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: You'll see us do more. You know, we believe that UM,

515
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: we have something to add. I'm not going to buy

516
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: anything that we don't believe. We can't make the cash

517
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: flow bigger. UM. We encourage um some of these uh

518
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: you know artists to stay in. I'd rather buy half

519
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: than all of it, because I think I can their

520
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: half worth you know, a lot more plus they've gotten

521
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: the capital gain on the first half that they sold. UM.

522
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: But you know, we we've we've built and we're building

523
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: out an incredible marketing staff. UM will make some announcements

524
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: on some exciting things on the Beach Boys. UM. You know,

525
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: they spent the last I don't know how many decades

526
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: fighting with each other, UM, and a lot of missed

527
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: opportunities were making up for lost time. And I'm and

528
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm a Beach Boys freak. It was one

529
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: of the it was the first real show I ever

530
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: attended when I was a kid. UH. And I just

531
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: I just think that that there's credible upside and the

532
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: Beach Boys. When you talk about iconic and you look

533
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: at your other enterprises, there any advantage in mass and

534
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: market share in the legacy business. I don't think so.

535
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: And then let's go into GMR. Tell us how you,

536
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: of all people, suddenly came up with the idea and

537
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: where we are now on global rights management. UM. It's

538
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: it's no secret that I hitched my start to two

539
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: guys named Glenn Fry and Don Henley. Throughout all my career, UH,

540
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: and a lot of what has motivated me to do

541
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: things has been things that I that they've either taught

542
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: me or that we experienced together. Um. And there was

543
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: a there was a time on YouTube where some satanic

544
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: minister was using a hotel California under one of his

545
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: crazy satanic bullshit things. So you know, you know, you know,

546
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: the whackable job at at YouTube. So you send a letter,

547
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: they take it down, pops back up. Then you have

548
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: to send a lawyer's letter, they take it down, pops

549
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: back up. Then you have to kind of really get

550
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: into a process improve you know, uh, improved stuff before

551
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: YouTube will take it down. And what we found out

552
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: was this satanic minister had gone to the UK uh

553
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: two prs, the the the society there. Um and I

554
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: believe we were b m I at the time, so

555
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: b A my Ra as CAP. I'm not sure because

556
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: we went back and forth. But basically b MRI as

557
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: CAP had given blanket rights right. So in the United States,

558
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: if you want to put a song in a play,

559
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: or you want to put a song in your you know,

560
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: in a play at at a high school, you gotta

561
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: get permission. Well, the YouTube had a blanket license YouTube

562
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: and this guy went and got a blanket license from

563
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: the UK from the performing right stiety. So now suddenly

564
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: you could use the Eagles song in a satanic message

565
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: on YouTube and you didn't need any permission and we

566
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: couldn't stop it. So and then I started looking into it,

567
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, and then I would see you can't audit

568
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: as cap or b m I when you know, UM,

569
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: no right to audit. You can't sue them, and and

570
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: I would get stays for all my acts, which just

571
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: to check and I'd go, well, what's this based on?

572
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: And the answers you just shut up in cash it

573
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: so um. So we started the first private h performing

574
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: rights organization in seventy five years. We promptly got sued

575
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: by their radio music licensing cartel uh and all that.

576
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: But it's been a great ride. We're wildly successful. Um.

577
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: We've signed you know, major writer after major writer. Our

578
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: writers are rap cartists, higher are our people make more money.

579
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: It's transparent. Um. You can go on the website and say, hey,

580
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: I got played four time on Kiss FM and this

581
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: is how much money I made. Um. So it's been

582
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: a great business. Um. And we feel like we've made

583
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: the world a better place for these writers. How much

584
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: more would I get if I switched from on a

585
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: traditional Aska BM I to your company. UM. Hard to

586
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: say in a blanket answer, but we did have We

587
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: do have deals where we've garen pee people. You'll make

588
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: ten or more, um, for sure, but I think we

589
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: make people in most instances way more. Okay, you own

590
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: two restaurants, you own a certain amount of real estate,

591
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 1: how how much of your time and how much your

592
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: investments in real estate? Uh? Okay, I don't own any

593
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: I don't own any restaurants. Those are Shelley's. Okay, everything's

594
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: in the well. The family owns the restaurants, but Shelley. Okay.

595
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: So Nate Now's uh, seventy five year old restaurant in

596
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills was in jeopardy of becoming extinct. You know,

597
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills real estate worth had pretty much made

598
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: it extinct. So through through a labor love, we and

599
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: some other family friends UM have taken it over, even

600
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: pre COVID. You know, we have the right to lose money,

601
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: but we have a mean mats of Brian, a great

602
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: corn beef and a great mats of ball suit. Uh.

603
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: The Apple Pan similar situation where we got a call

604
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: um and the family that had owned it wanted another

605
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: family in the restaurant business to kind of take it

606
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: over that had some Hamburger history. We've had some history

607
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: with five guys, Corn cap Shaw and myself and a

608
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: group that included Phil Nicholson and a bunch of others

609
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: that owned a bunch of five guys restaurants together. Um,

610
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: so we kind of it kind of fell into it.

611
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: But it's for fun and community and uh. Um, you know,

612
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: one Eagles date's gonna make us more than a year

613
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: a year at the restaurant. Uh. And as far as

614
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: real estate goes, Um, we're not heavily invested, but that

615
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 1: we have invested in the years and everything from apartment

616
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: buildings to office buildings and um, you kind of hang

617
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: on and never sell those, Okay, in terms of things

618
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: that your where your money is invested in, taking your time.

619
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: Is there anything else in your portfolio that I haven't mentioned. Um,

620
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: let's say Oak View g MR Management Business Iconic and uh,

621
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: we're in the process now of starting a record label,

622
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: the music publishing company, and your thoughts in creating those were, um,

623
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: pretty simple, you know you. Um again, I think we

624
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: want to be an alternative to the majors because I

625
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: believe that artists should own their I P. So we're

626
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: gonna be a different model and more artist friendly model

627
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: economic model. UM. And when you look at UH, you know,

628
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Universal's worth what forty fifty billion, sixty billion? I don't

629
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: know what the number is gonna be when they go.

630
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: Probably Warners is trading at what billion, twenty billions something

631
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: like that. Sony's probably worth somewhere in between. So you're

632
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: over a hundred billion dollars UM. You know, artists like

633
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: to do business with us because we're very hard is friendly.

634
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: We proved it GMR that we can sign UM. We've

635
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: landed an incredible talent in UH to go with my

636
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: son Jeffrey, with Sean Tubby Holiday who's an incredibly gifted

637
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: in our guy. UM. And we've started to sign UM.

638
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: And you know, we kind of think if if we can't,

639
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, get two percent of the market, we're idiots.

640
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: So what's two percent of the market worth two billion dollars?

641
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: And what kind of deals you offering? You know, fifty

642
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: fifty on streaming revenue? Who owns the asset? UH? They

643
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: will be a profit participant for a number of years UM.

644
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: But the artists will always have a right to buy

645
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: us out at fair market value, okay, or or or

646
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: it's either a term or a right to buy out,

647
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: depending on which the artist prefers. And then in terms

648
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: of net how's the net split? Um? Certain, you know,

649
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: it depends on who it is and what it is

650
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: and when it isn't their career. But we won't be

651
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: doing three sixty deals and asking for pieces of touring

652
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: and pieces of of all that stuff. But you know,

653
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: if you're a major established artist, I'm not. You know,

654
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: we're not gonna ask for anywhere near fifty. Okay, let's

655
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. So originally you're from Illinois.

656
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: Where are you from? Uh? I was? I was born

657
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 1: in Chicago. Was raised in a little town called Danville,

658
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: ILLINOI went to a little bit slower. How far is

659
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: Danville from Chicago? A hundred and thirty miles? So what's

660
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: what's Danville like? Are you growing up in the sticks

661
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: or is it like up to date? Uh? Town of

662
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: about thirty forty people. Um, a lot of you know plants.

663
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: You know, there was a GM plant heister, there was

664
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: I think there was a forget who the big cereal

665
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: company was there, um, but it was mostly an industrial

666
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: and right on the Illinois Indiana border. Um. But for

667
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: some reason it had Uh there was a lady that

668
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: taught at the high school for years and uh they

669
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 1: had a real good arts program. You know. Dick van Dyke,

670
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: Jerry Van Dyke, Bobby Short, Jeene Hackman all came from Danville, Illinois. UM.

671
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: So that's where I grew up and then thirty west

672
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: of that. What'd your father do for a living. My

673
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: father was a pharmacist and had a share in a

674
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: couple of pharmacies. My mom was a bookkeeper. Okay, how

675
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: many kids in the family, brother and sister. I was

676
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: the oldest. You were the oldest. Okay, you go to school.

677
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: You got a public school. I assume, oh yeah, oh,

678
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: you got a public school. You're the class clown or

679
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: you're the troublemaker? Are you the silent? Are you popular?

680
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: What's your role in school? Straight a's class clown and

681
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: you could get away with it because you're so smart.

682
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: Guess Okay, you have a big interest in sports. Were

683
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: you an athlete? No? No, no, no, no, I mean

684
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: did you forget the team? Yeah? Oh yeah, we played

685
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah all summer we played baseball in the park, you know,

686
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: played basketball poor like basketball baseball. Okay, so now you're

687
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: in high school. How do you fit in? In high school? Well,

688
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: there were I think eight of us Jewish kids in

689
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: the whole school. Yeah, um, but we fit in. You know,

690
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: were you a manager? Were you the guy who's rounding

691
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: people up even back then? Yeah. By the time I

692
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: was a senior in high school, you know, my friends

693
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: were in bands. I know, I tried. I couldn't sing.

694
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: I tried drums, I tried saxophone. Remember in those days,

695
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: you had to learn an instrument. That's part of it. Yeah,

696
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't gifted as a as a musician.

697
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 1: So then I just started kind of My friends were

698
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: all were in bands, so, um, I kind of started

699
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 1: the business side of it. So I started booking bands

700
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. Okay, but you also

701
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: told me that you were representing the DJs at w

702
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: l S. That's later. You're already in college when that happens, correct, Okay. Uh, Now,

703
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: needless to say, somewhat like myself, you're somewhat vertically challenged.

704
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: What was the experience of being in school? Did you

705
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: make that work for you? Was, did you take abuse?

706
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: I was no. I was good in high school and

707
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: I liked it. Uh. But when I got to college,

708
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: I went. You know, my dad was a pharmacist, so

709
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: my parents decided I should be a doctor. So I

710
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: I go to the University of Illinois and Champagne, thirty

711
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: miles away. I go there for a couple of reasons.

712
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: I go there because I already had this booking business going.

713
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: So I knew how I was going to put my

714
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: way through school. Um too, I had. I had applied

715
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: at U c l a UM where my and my

716
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: my grandmother, and I had aunts and uncles out here. Uh.

717
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: And I applied at Johns Hopkins Uh. And I got

718
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,959
Speaker 1: an accepted at all three. Um, I was gonna come

719
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: to you at very one, various different points. I decided

720
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: I was going to each one of those, and then

721
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: at the at the end of the day, I just

722
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: decided that I loved booking bands and stuff, and I

723
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: had already started a business there, so I stayed and

724
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: went to the University of Illinois. Okay, what was the

725
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: status of your band booking business by time you graduate

726
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: from high school? And local bands? You know, a bunch

727
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 1: of local bands. We were playing, you know, renting halls

728
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: and collecting the money, you know, planning sock ops. Well

729
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: what was your deal with the bands and how much

730
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: money could you make? Oh? You know those days you

731
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: were playing for Union scale and stuff. So you know,

732
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: the band was making a hundred ten dollars and I

733
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: was getting you know, eleven bucks on top or something.

734
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Okay, So you go to college, you're a freshman,

735
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: You walk on the campus. Then what happens? Uh, I'm

736
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: met a crazy guy that book bands there book college bands,

737
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: a guy named Robert Nutt and U T t Um

738
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: and he uh he and I started an agency called

739
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: Blytheam Limited b L y T h M Limited. Some

740
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: street what what what? Why was it called that? It's

741
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: a street in England. Bob had been to England with

742
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: one of the one of the our one of our artists,

743
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: guy in the Finchley Boys, and it was a street

744
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: in England that he remembered. Um, and we just kind

745
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: of took the college circuit by storm. You know, there

746
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: are those days University of Illinois had fifty six fraternities

747
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: and like twenty eight sororities and like three beer bars. Right,

748
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: So We had a lot of gigs to go around,

749
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: and there weren't enough local bands to do it. So

750
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: we had bands coming in from all over the Tri

751
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: state area that we would book. And then we grew

752
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: a business. We expanded the business out there, we opened

753
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: we opened offices in Madison, Wisconsin, and Chicago and Champagne.

754
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: So by the time I was a sophomore in college,

755
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have any time for school, and

756
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: I was making more money than a doctor ever could.

757
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: So you know that was it? Okay, a little bit slower?

758
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: How much money were you making? This is the late sixties.

759
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands a year. That's net to you. Yeah,

760
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: that's a lot of money. Especially and then and then

761
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: what did your parents say when nice Jewish boy drops

762
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: out of college? Um, they were very happy to move

763
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: in the new house. I bought him, no problem. Okay,

764
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: Mr Nutt, who you're working with, is he making as

765
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: much money as you? Yeah? Okay? And you're the two principles.

766
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: There is no one else with you? Okay. How do

767
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: you end up representing the w l S d JS

768
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: um So w LS was this powerhouse in Chicago, hundred

769
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: thousand water with ten thousand what I don't know what

770
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: the number was. Was it a hundred thousand, Yeah, hundred

771
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: thousand wats you could you could hear it all over

772
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: the Midwest. You could hear it Nashville. It was like

773
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: I think it was fifty was as much as you

774
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: But you know the three big stations in the world

775
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: where w ABC, kh J in l A and w

776
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: l S and Chicago. Uh so um if you so

777
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: there were this chain. There were all these clubs around

778
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: Chicago that one of their ex DJ is a guy

779
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: named dex Card dex Cards Wild Goose Clubs. So he

780
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: had like seven of these clubs. So what you would

781
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: do to get you couldn't afford as a as a

782
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: little club promoter. You couldn't afford advertising on w LS.

783
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: But w LS allowed their DJs to go out and

784
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: m c these shows. And then they had they had

785
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: spots that they ran all the time where we go

786
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: tonight at x Cards, Wild Goose and Joliet, Illinois. You

787
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: can see three Dog Night with Larry lu Jack, right,

788
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 1: and so all these disc jockeys and by the way,

789
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: and when you bring him down to the you know,

790
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: to the prom at Danville High School, they were draws.

791
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: They were a big deal, so it was legitimate. I

792
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: mean that you booked these guys, but you'd always book

793
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: them with UH, you know, with an act, so they act,

794
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: you book, you package the act in the DJ together

795
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: and UH and that's kind of how it started. Yeah, well,

796
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: tell me the story, tell my audience story about your

797
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: meeting with Morris Levy. Um. One of our bands, UH

798
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: from Champagne, Illinois at the University of I was a

799
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: big band on campus. Was a band called the One

800
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: Eyed Jacks um and and Bob Nutt had gotten them

801
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: UH up in Chicago, and there was a jingle ad

802
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: agency guy that had a studio and they'd recorded a

803
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: record the name of which I can't even remember right now.

804
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: And Art Roberts, who was the program director, w ls UM,

805
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: I love the song, and he said, I'm gonna play

806
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: this and so I said, well, it's great that you're

807
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: gonna play it. Um, how do I get a record label?

808
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: And those days you'd have distroy aributors like All State

809
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 1: in Chicago distributed Columbia Records and this one and that one.

810
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: And he says, I'll help you get her. I'll help

811
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: you get a record deal. Okay, and so he says,

812
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to New York. Um, I'm gonna get

813
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: you a lawyer, and we're gonna go play this. The

814
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: fact that I'm willing to put this record on w LS,

815
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: You're gonna get a record deal, he says. And my

816
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: ears are good. This is gonna be a smash. I

817
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 1: mean he really believed in the record. This wasn't under

818
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: that table anything, right. Um, So I, Uh, my mom

819
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: was afraid to fly if we took a vacation to Florida.

820
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: We drove. So I'm eighteen, nineteen years old. I think

821
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: I was nineteen. Maybe I've never been on an airplane.

822
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: My first plane flight to go to New York with

823
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: Art roberts Um and we hired this lawyer named Mort Farber,

824
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: who at the time represented I think like Ingelbert Hunker,

825
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: Dank and a bunch of people. And he sets up

826
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: two meetings. When we go to h we go to

827
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: see Atlantic Records Jerry Greenberg at the time, and we

828
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: play We play the record for Jerry. Jay says, it's

829
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: a nice record. I'd have to hear more. I'm not

830
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: sure I want it, and uh, And then we go

831
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: over to Roulette Records to see Morris Leavey and they're

832
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: riding high at that time with Tommy James and the

833
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 1: Shan dels Uh and the lawyer Mort Farber says to me, look,

834
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: he says, here's what you're gonna do. He says, Morris

835
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: is gonna offer you three for the single and says

836
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: if it's a hit, he'll make an album. But we

837
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: don't have another deal. So you tell him, okay, I

838
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: remember the numbers, like five grand, but tell him you

839
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: got he's got to give you five thousand for the record,

840
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: but you want five points, not three points. So we

841
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: get in the meeting, me and Art and Morris, and

842
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: he listens to the record and he says, let me

843
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: bring my promotion guy in. He he brings this guy,

844
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: Red Schwartz, this famous promotion guy who has just broken

845
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: Tommy James, and Red Sworts says, I like this record.

846
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: I like this right. So so Moore says, okay, kid,

847
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. And he's got his big cigars

848
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: and he's chomping on the scars. He says, I'll take it.

849
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna take the record. I'm gonna give

850
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: you five thousand dollars and three points, just like just

851
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: like Mark part Center says, well, Mr Levy, you know

852
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: we have other interests. Um, I'm okay with the five

853
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: thou dollars, but could we please have five? And he

854
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: whirls around on the chair and he looks at me

855
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: and he says, I'll give you five percent, but I'm

856
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: gonna pay you three. That was my first record deal.

857
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: Whatever happened with the record, the record came out and stiffed. Okay,

858
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: so you're this incredible entrepreneur. Where did you learn how

859
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: to do that? I don't know, just in your you know,

860
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: it's in your blood. Okay, Well, I didn't want to

861
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: have a real job. Okay, if you're in high school,

862
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: you're working in high school other than booking bands. Did

863
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: you ever have a paper route? Did you ever sell anything?

864
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: I had a paper route when I was, you know,

865
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: young kid. We had a We had these classes called

866
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: Junior Achievement. I remember. We had so you had to

867
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: make you know, we made these stupid lights that you

868
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: put in your car, that you plug in the battery

869
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 1: if your car broke down. Um, you learned stuff like that.

870
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: Um My father owned a pharmacy so in the you know,

871
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: in the summers, I would work there, right, work in

872
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: the pharmacy, work to cash, registered, do stuff like that.

873
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: Um kind of had a little business mowing lawns and

874
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: and shoveling snow, but I hired people to do that.

875
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,720
Speaker 1: I would book the lawns. But okay, that's where it starts,

876
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: is to start there or anything before that kind of

877
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: a combination of all of it. Okay, So now you're

878
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: in Illinois, you drop out of college. Are you booking

879
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: bands that are named talent or just all the local

880
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: talent the area? Um? No, we were booking regional bands

881
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: that were important. Okay. Um, but by this time, the

882
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: the agents around the country, you know, knew we controlled

883
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: the college markets especially, so we we were booking some

884
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: we were booking some national talent. You know. The relationship

885
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: with WS certainly didn't hurt me. Like when like three

886
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: Dog Night came in, you know, and and and basically

887
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: they wanted to break in the area. And those days,

888
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: you could put a record on Impuri Illinois or Rockford,

889
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: Illinois and if it showed up, it was a hit.

890
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: That's how you got Chicago to play it. I mean,

891
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: it was legit in those days of how it worked.

892
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: So you know, so Art Roberts, the program director at

893
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: w LS, would would tell like whoever it was at

894
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: ABC Dunhill, Hey, you know, if you really want to

895
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: break this record, there's an agent here that can get

896
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: you dates. If you're gonna put the record on the

897
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: radio and Purian Rockford and all that, you should go

898
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: play there because that's how you really get a simple thing,

899
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, the country. In those days, you could go

900
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: out and hard work. That's how Area Speedwagon was built.

901
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: You know, work. You know, you worked every little nook

902
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: and cranny. So you know, I would get a call

903
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: and they'd say three dog night, take them for three

904
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: weeks and book them, you know, and they'd pay me

905
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: an agency commission and I book them all over the

906
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: three state area little towns and the record would go on.

907
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: And that's how you that's how you built a base

908
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: in those days. Um. And you know, I always thought

909
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,439
Speaker 1: that I had a big edge coming from Illinois and

910
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: having seen how the process worked, and you know, and

911
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I actually, you know, we actually broke Orio Speedwagon off

912
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: that process. And you know, and you've got guys on

913
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: the coast that had you know, growing up in New

914
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: York and l A. You know, they just think you

915
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: walk in and get a record deal, put on the radio,

916
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: and it happens. But these bands that had touring basis,

917
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, it was become bigger and quicker. How many

918
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: years were you in Illinois before you left for l

919
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: A and once you got to college? Uh? I moved

920
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: to l A when I was twenty two. So what

921
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: very long? No? Okay, and you're in there. How do

922
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: you develop your relationship with Ario Speedwagon and Dan Volgeber?

923
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: Uh Ario Speedwagon? Um, we're a local band that played

924
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: in our clubs and so I was their agent, you know,

925
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: and then there was no difference between agent manager in

926
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: those days, you know. And that's so we made some

927
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: tapes and you know, we I went to New York

928
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: got him a record deal um with Ronald Lexemburg at

929
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: U Epic Records, UM, and you know, so that's how

930
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: that kind of started. But I actually moved to California

931
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: because I had Rio and Vogelberg and I felt that

932
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: I had to go to New York or l A

933
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: to break them because how did you get how did

934
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: you get Fogelberg? Uh? Fogelberg was the local folk singer.

935
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: He played at a place called the Red Herring, which

936
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 1: was a coffee shop on the other side of town

937
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: in urbana Um. And you know, and the rock guys

938
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: didn't really hang out with the folk guys. And I

939
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: was the rock guy. Uh and uh, a friend of

940
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: mine took me to see Fogelberg, who was friend who

941
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: kind of knew Fogelberg and thought he was great. And

942
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: then uh, he came to my office the next day.

943
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: He had made a tape because his father was a

944
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: high school music teacher in Pure Illinois and had a

945
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: friend in Peak in Illinois, where he had been in

946
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: the studio made some tapes that they and they were

947
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: playing his his tapes on the local college radio station.

948
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: So Dan was like a year younger than me. So

949
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: he came to my office, came on his bicycle, came

950
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: in and played me these tapes. And then of course

951
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 1: his bicycle got stolen while he was hit in my

952
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: office playing me the tapes. But but the first person

953
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: to take me to see Dan was a guy that

954
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: I had met who just came up to me and said, Hey,

955
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: you gotta go here. This guy is incredible. I have

956
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: nothing to do with him. I don't know him, but

957
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: he's a great, great singer. You gotta go hear him.

958
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: Um and the and the the guy was down at

959
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: the University Illinois visiting his girlfriend. Um the guy was

960
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: John Belushi. It took me to see Dan. I hadn't

961
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: heard that story before. Okay, so now you're you want

962
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 1: to go to l A and then you ultimately write

963
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: letters to everybody. By the way, it's just strikes me,

964
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, so I meet my, think my, I really

965
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: get started, and you start thinking about it, you know, Belushi,

966
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,919
Speaker 1: Fogelberg and you know what are they now? They're both dead, right,

967
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's God, it's crazy, both prematurely did well.

968
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's weird when I remember watching the George

969
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: Carlin special before he died and he had his address

970
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: because ripping this guy out, he's dead and that's in

971
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: the future. Now that's us. It's very weird. And you

972
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 1: start wondering how much time you actually have left, which

973
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: begs the question anything you have to do before you die? Uh?

974
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: Who is the one who's it? Said to me, I

975
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: don't intend to retire and I don't intend to die.

976
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: I'll just go with that. Well, it didn't work for

977
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: some to Redstone. So but irrelevant when that happens thirty

978
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: years from an hour, thirty minutes from now. God forbid

979
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: any place you haven't been, anything you haven't done, you know,

980
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: I know, you know, I feel very fortunate and blessed

981
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: to what I've done. I'm not. I don't have a

982
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: bucket list left. I mean, it's like, uh, just do

983
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: more of the same. Okay, So you want to move

984
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: to l A. And you told me you wrote these letters. Uh. Well,

985
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: I sent Fogelberg's tape to Geffen because there had been

986
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: an article in Rolling Stone that said, uh, um that

987
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: he was starting asylum records. Um. And and he you know,

988
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: And I sent it to him. I don't and then

989
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 1: I then I called him. He picked up the phone. Um.

990
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: I knew him a little bit because when he was

991
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: an agent at uh he was booking the association, I think,

992
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: and I booked something or we had a conversation about

993
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: booking something. Uh and he uh and he said that

994
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: he had listened to the tape and he really liked

995
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: it and that I should come see him. Uh. So

996
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: Ario already had a record deal with Epic, and my

997
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: friend Terry Bassett at concerts. West had put them on

998
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: a Grand Funk Railroad tour, so they were out touring

999
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: everywhere and we we had our start. Um. But I

1000
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: uh so I came out to see Geffen and he said,

1001
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: and he told me, um, that Jack and Brown really

1002
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: liked the Vogelberg tapes, but that he was backed up

1003
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: on male singer songwriters because he had Jackson, he had Nendoheeny,

1004
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,439
Speaker 1: he had David Blue, you know, all these all these

1005
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: and he said, if I could wait a year, he

1006
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: would sign Dan. Now us being what we were, kids

1007
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: being kids. Um, uh, we didn't wait a year, but

1008
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: I took it. I took a job working for Jerry

1009
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: Heller at a place called the Heller Ficial Agency. Wait wait,

1010
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: you told me that you tried to get a job

1011
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: with a million other people. That was and he was

1012
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: the only one who offered you a job. No, no,

1013
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 1: that wasn't true. That. I don't know what I told

1014
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: you then, but but do your call. But I uh, um,

1015
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: I had to decide I was gonna go to New

1016
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: Yorker l A. I decided I was going to lead

1017
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: Champagne and I had actually Bob Nutt had you know,

1018
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: right free free you know, kind of just went nuts

1019
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: on drugs and alcohol and kind of disappeared. And I

1020
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: and the guy I kind of gave the agency to

1021
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: the guys that worked for me, uh and said I

1022
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: don't want to do us anymore. And I'd saved a

1023
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: bunch of money anyway. So um. But the biggest agent

1024
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: in the business was Frank Barcelona, premier talent in New York,

1025
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, and a gentleman who was you know, who

1026
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: was a pioneer of you know, he divided the country

1027
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: up and decided who got what. He had all the

1028
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: big English bands, right and uh and um so uh

1029
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: and and I had books and stuff for Frank and stuff.

1030
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: And my friend Bill Elson from Chicago gone to work there.

1031
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: Um and Bill had and so I've been in to

1032
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: see Frank and he so he kind of said, I'm

1033
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: gonna come work here. Come moved to New York and

1034
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: work here. So he said, I'm gonna be in Chicago.

1035
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be at Aaron Russo's Kinetic Playground to see

1036
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin. Why don't you come up to Chicago and

1037
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: meet with me. I'll meet you in front of the

1038
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: Kinetic Playground. At eight o'clock whatever it was, and and

1039
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: and and so I go up there and the Kinetic

1040
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: playground earlier in the day had burned to the ground,

1041
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: and I took that as a message, don't move to

1042
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: new Arc, okay. So and I have then offered this

1043
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: other job. Jerry Heller was a very uh. It was

1044
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: a new startup agency. UH represented jose Feliciano. The guests

1045
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: who Lee Michael's Nils Lofgern and grin Um had a

1046
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, a bunch of Geff and stuff, Jojo

1047
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: gunn On Asylum and a bunch of stuff Um and

1048
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: Jerry and Donna owned this agency. So it was the

1049
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: two of them and me. Uh. And they were fun

1050
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: times until Jerry did too much blow and kind of

1051
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: gotten to fight with Geffen and was fighting with everybody.

1052
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: And then I moved to associated booking company tell the

1053
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,479
Speaker 1: story of we're going to do the Lee Michael's Deep.

1054
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: So Jerry Heller says to me, Uh, go up stay

1055
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: with Lee. Um, make sure he goes to this gig.

1056
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: I think it was. I don't know. It wasn't Sacramento,

1057
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: might have been Fresno or or something. You told me

1058
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: Sacramento the last time, yeah, because it was drivable from

1059
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: San Francisco, right, And he had some like Ferrari or something.

1060
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: So I get to his house. The sky had live

1061
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: mountain lions and tigers in his backyard as pets. Okay,

1062
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: scared the ship out of me. So I survived that.

1063
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: And he had this wonderful girlfriend that I think had.

1064
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: I know whether she was with Van Morrison before or

1065
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: after him, but I remember her name was Janet Planet. Right, okay,

1066
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: And so Lee and I we jump in the car.

1067
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: He drives like a hundred miles an hour to the

1068
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: gig okay uh. And he he had this two piece band,

1069
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: him and a drummer named Frosty, and he had this

1070
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: massive hit record and he was huge in California, so

1071
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: you know. And and he played like twenty minutes and

1072
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: comes over the size stage and says, come on, kid,

1073
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: we're leaving. And I went, you can't leave. You just

1074
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: played fifty twenty minutes. He says, do you have the money?

1075
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: I said yeah. He says we got paid. I said yeah.

1076
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: He says we're out of here, okay, and drag me

1077
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: to the car and we drove back to San Francisco

1078
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: and you all still have to give the money back.

1079
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: Of course we had to give the money back because

1080
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: they nearly rioted. And then Jerry Heller said to me,

1081
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: what what do you I send you up there? How

1082
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: do you fund this up? How did you let the

1083
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: guy leave? Right? But anyway, there's I got a million

1084
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: of those stories. Okay, so you'll go to Associated Booking.

1085
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: What is that? Associated Booking was a bigger agency, um,

1086
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, and if you know, it was founded basically

1087
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: by Joe Glazer. Um. The guy running it was Oscar Cohen.

1088
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: But you know it was built on the back of

1089
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: uh you know, Glazer represented um people like Louis Armstrong

1090
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: and you know, all the big bands and and and

1091
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: that stuff and and it was. It was a solid place.

1092
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: You know, Tom Ross who founded CIA Personal Appearance Department

1093
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: was there, Johnny Podell who later kind of founded a

1094
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: t I. But but we had um Alice Cooper, Quicksilver,

1095
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: Messenger Service, um, the doors. It was you know, it

1096
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: was a real real place. Okay, then you end up

1097
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: booking the Roxy. Yeah, I'm an Associated Booking And then

1098
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: David Elliott convinced me to leave. Take Vogel Burgnario with me,

1099
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: who I was managing while I was still an agent. Um.

1100
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: And come when when David goes to asylum, I go

1101
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: to Geff and Roberts too, um to kind of fill

1102
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: the void. Uh and and every and they were all

1103
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: piste off at Doug Weston for the shitty deals he

1104
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: was giving artists. So I guess I kind of I

1105
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: guess you know, I would have to say thank you

1106
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: to Elliott and David and Lou Adler, who said, uh,

1107
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: if you see something really wrong where an artist is

1108
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: getting screwed, uh, you know, start something, start a competitor, right,

1109
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: So they went and built the Roxy because Doug Weston's

1110
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: deals for artists were unfair. I mean you'd have to

1111
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: give them big options. You know, Elton, John, Bet Midler,

1112
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: everybody came in there. I mean you would have to

1113
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: play their three, four or five weeks to get your

1114
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: initial booking you'd get. They'd have four options at like

1115
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: stupid low money. Um. But yeah, so I end up

1116
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: book So I end up booking the the opening of

1117
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: the Roxy. And um, in those days, Cheech and Chong

1118
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: were huge, and that was lose act of course. UM,

1119
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to remember who we booked the opening week? Um,

1120
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't come to me now, but I know Cheech

1121
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: and Chong had been in there, and and and a

1122
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: bunch of bands and and so Lou has said to me,

1123
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: you know we need something you need something black too.

1124
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: So I booked the Temptations. Um, but they could only play.

1125
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: They'd only were only open to play, like Friday Saturday

1126
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: or set Mattery Sunday. And he said, look, you know

1127
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: my ax just came in here and played five days. Um.

1128
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: So I got this big fight with Luke because he said,

1129
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: you can't book the Temptations unless play. They played the

1130
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: whole week, and I said, I'll tell you what, asshole,

1131
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: you booked the fucking so I know. So I booked

1132
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: the opening and quit. Um, but should happens? But those

1133
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: are those are incredible days in the strip at l A. Okay,

1134
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: So you're working at Geff and Roberts. What are you

1135
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: doing there? What's going on there? I was predominantly doing

1136
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: what I knew best, which was touring, you know, So

1137
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: I was I was booking the tours with you know,

1138
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: there were agents, but I was putting together and supervising

1139
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: the book. And how did you end up managing the Eagles. Um,

1140
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: so we were managing those days. Uh, Dylan, Crazy Stills,

1141
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: Nash Young, Joni, America Eagles. So the Eagles in America

1142
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: were the kids, Poco. I think too, Jackson, Uh, and

1143
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: the Eagles America were kind of the kids. And I

1144
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: bring Joe Walsh scenario and Vogelberg with me too. Well,

1145
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: how do you get involved with Joe Walsh because he's

1146
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: with the Belkons in Ohio? How does that start? Uh?

1147
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: Um Belkon and I promoted, Um, Mike was a friend

1148
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: of mine. We promoted a series of concerts in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.

1149
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: And so I was around Joe a lot. With Mike

1150
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: and Joe. The James gang had broken up, Joe had

1151
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: made an unsuccessful solo album, Mike and Joe had parted company.

1152
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: Um and um, Joe and I had stayed in touch

1153
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: because I promoted a bunch of dates on him. So

1154
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: he looks me up in l A. He found me

1155
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: in l A. Okay, So you're back to the story

1156
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: with the Eagles. Uh. Yeah. So um, it's no secret

1157
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: that uh um, the Eagles and Geffen had their differences. Um.

1158
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: So at some point, um, big blow up occurs. Uh,

1159
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: and the Eagles say we're lee eaving. Um, why don't

1160
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: you come, Why don't you take Vogelberg and Aaria, Why

1161
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: don't you come start your company and be our manager? Right?

1162
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: And I'd had a failed negotiation with David Elliott to

1163
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: become a partner in the firm. Um the deal and

1164
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: by the way, the deal just changed, shall we say,

1165
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't what they said it was going to be.

1166
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: After a year happens in rock and roll. No, uh

1167
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: and and uh and they and by the way they

1168
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: were they were great mentors. And the deal and by

1169
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: the even the change deal was okay. But my heart

1170
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: Glenn and Glenna Donna become my closest friends, and Vogelberg

1171
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: and Joe. You know, I just want to be with

1172
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: my guys. So so I go back to David Elliott

1173
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: and say, you know, the Eagles are leaving and they

1174
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: want you know, and you know, the deal didn't happen

1175
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: that you said was going to happen. Um, I think

1176
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with him. And they go, Okay, you

1177
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: can have your deal. We don't give a we don't

1178
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: give a funk if they leave, but we care you leave, right,

1179
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: So I said, I'm gonna stay. And I go back

1180
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: to the Eagles and say, guess what, We're gonna stay,

1181
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: but things will be different because now I'm a partner

1182
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: and I can do Then they said, nah, we're not staying.

1183
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: Pick that it's demmeer us And so I went. So,

1184
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: I you know, I went with them because they were

1185
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, was it was. They were you know, they were,

1186
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: we were you know, obviously we were really tight. So

1187
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 1: what was the status? Where were they in their album cycles? Then? Um,

1188
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: when we left was probably after Desperado but before on

1189
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: the Borders released. Okay, so they had the peak on

1190
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: the first album, but they were relatively cold at the time, yes, unfortunately. Okay,

1191
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: so the first big success you have that your new manager,

1192
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: Joe Joe Wos was bigger than the Eagles at that

1193
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: point because he has the smoker you drink player, get

1194
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain way right? And so is the next big

1195
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: success the Eagles or is there something else? Well? Are

1196
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: Ario is a huge touring band? Um, Joe was, and

1197
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, and and yeah, and then uh Dan broke

1198
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: after the Eagles, but um, you know, and then it's

1199
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of a blur you know, Jimmy Buffett comes aboard,

1200
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: Boss Gags, Steely Dan, Stevie Nicks. Okay, so what was

1201
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: your special sauce? Um? You know, I think it's just

1202
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: that that standard, that standard thing. You know, you take

1203
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: every phone call, you return every phone call, you treat

1204
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: people with respect. Um. If you know you can't be

1205
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: afraid to get in a fight. You show me a

1206
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: manager that just says yes and never gets in a fight.

1207
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: He's doing a shitty job, okay, because you know, saying

1208
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: saying yes is easy, saying no is hard, you know,

1209
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: can get you in some scrapes. Um. And and you know,

1210
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: the whole thing about you know, you gotta understand, you know,

1211
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: the artist is that the artist is the drawing card,

1212
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: and the artist is the reason you're there and you

1213
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: and you gotta like these people, and you gotta like

1214
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: you to love music or you shouldn't do it. Okay.

1215
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: People who don't actually know you and go by reputation,

1216
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: they're not aware of the fact that you're so charming

1217
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 1: and friendly and you get along. It's not just your personality.

1218
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: Was that a strategy? Also? I don't think it's a strategy.

1219
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 1: But listen, Hanley has this this line he uses all

1220
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 1: the time. When it's necessary, I need you to go

1221
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: seventies on him. Okay, And and and we I mean,

1222
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: come on when your kids and you're you know, you're

1223
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, Glenn Fry was James Dean Man. I mean,

1224
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 1: you know, it was like we were running hard and fast.

1225
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: You know. I was never you know, consuming what they

1226
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: were consuming. But I certainly had the punk attitude, you know. Um,

1227
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: and you know, you're in Hollywood and it's an actor job.

1228
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: And you know during in the seventies in Hollywood, you know,

1229
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 1: you you know, you had you had rough characters out there,

1230
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 1: whether it was you know, you'd sit in front of

1231
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: the sitt in the trouber or at night and listened

1232
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: to Albert Grossman and David Geffen scream at each other. Right. Um,

1233
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: So it was you just you had to kind of

1234
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: play to the to the the type cast that you

1235
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: were given. You know, we're all we're in Hollywood, so

1236
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 1: you know all that all that kind of seventies behavior

1237
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: was it was one, it was an act too. It

1238
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:25,480
Speaker 1: was fun um and three it worked. Now, you notoriously

1239
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: got into battles where you didn't speak to people for

1240
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: a while, and then you made up what was happening there. Well,

1241
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: when you put somebody in jail, they get out eventually.

1242
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of it was. I looked at

1243
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: it more like a hockey game. You have a fight,

1244
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,560
Speaker 1: the guy goes in the penalty box, and then he

1245
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: gets out of the penalty box. Yeah, but you also

1246
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: sent like, uh, Chuck Morris an actual buck and told

1247
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: him he was out of the penalty box. Possible. Okay,

1248
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: were you aware before it's released? How big and here's

1249
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: how good your memory is and my memory is to

1250
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 1: did you ever know why Chuck Morris went in the

1251
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: penalty box? He did tell me, But how you're gonna

1252
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 1: remind me? I can't whip it out. So when I

1253
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: was an m c A Records, he was man as

1254
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: I sold, you know, and we still had the management business,

1255
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: right and you know, he was my promoter in Colorado

1256
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: and other places and close close friend, and he was

1257
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: managing the Dirt Band and um, the Dirt went off

1258
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: of Warner and he made a deal with me for

1259
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: the Dirt Band to come record for me. And it

1260
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 1: was you know, and we were launching, really getting big

1261
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 1: in Nashville. Um, and then he decided not to close

1262
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: the deal, so I put him in the penalty box

1263
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: for a while. Fair right, they went to United Artists.

1264
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: It really fucked him up, just when he tells the story.

1265
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: But going back, you're you know, it takes a while

1266
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: to make Hotel California. Are you aware of the phenomenon

1267
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: it's going to be before it comes out? Uh? We

1268
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: knew it was magical. Yeah, I mean, look, you never

1269
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: you never can predict that level of success. But um,

1270
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, he just uh, you know, I had the

1271
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,759
Speaker 1: good fortune to be sitting there as those songs were written,

1272
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was in the rented houses that

1273
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: we rented or sometimes in my house. Um, and I

1274
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: was there when the tracks were laid, and I was

1275
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: there when the vocals were late, you know, and you

1276
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 1: just you know, Glenn and Donnas had just hit the

1277
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,599
Speaker 1: hit their stride, you know. And I don't know why,

1278
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, these guys can't. It doesn't last thirty or

1279
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: forty or fifty years, the ability to write and and

1280
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 1: record and stay you know, ahead of it. Um, but

1281
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: that you know, but they that those were you know,

1282
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: but but look I would contend even all the way back.

1283
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: But you know, long run hotel California on the border

1284
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: were you know, and I and I thought Long Road

1285
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: out of Eden were just amazing pieces of work certainly.

1286
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: So ultimately you have this huge success and suddenly you're

1287
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: managing everybody Steely Dan boss gags Buffet. Are these people

1288
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: just calling the up say, you know, give me some

1289
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: of the magic. How do you end up managing all

1290
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: those people? Uh? Networking? You know, there's no two situations

1291
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 1: that are saying, um, Jimmy Buffett, Um, I'm in the um.

1292
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: You know. We had houses in Aspen, and I was

1293
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:22,879
Speaker 1: in the I was in the Jerome Bar, and Aspen

1294
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: called the office and got a message that some opening

1295
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: act had canceled and we were leaving the next day

1296
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: to start a date in Carolina. And I looked over

1297
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 1: and I knew Jimmy because we were both at Aspen.

1298
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: He's sitting literally sitting at the bar with Hunter Thompson

1299
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 1: at the Jerome Bar hotel, and I'm going, Jimmy's wife's

1300
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: from Carolina. He's Jimmy's big and Carolina. We're starting in

1301
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: the Carolina. So I went over and tapped him on

1302
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: the shoulder and said, hey, he wanted he want to

1303
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: come open for the Eagles on the tour and he says, yeah,

1304
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: I ain't doing nothing. Of course, I said, all right,

1305
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: grab your guitar and meet me at the airport. I'll

1306
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: book the flights tomorrow morning. He flew together the date

1307
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: and that's and he and and uh he was Uh.

1308
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: He was managed by a guy in Nashville at the

1309
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 1: time and had a record deal and was starting out

1310
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: and it was kind of just getting started for him.

1311
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: But things things got got way late, and one day

1312
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: after he opens for the Eagles at Madison were Garden,

1313
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 1: his wife Jane Buffett, hops in my limo and says, uh,

1314
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: you're going to manage my husband. You're going to go

1315
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: buy him out of this other contract and and manage Jimmy.

1316
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: So that's how that kind of happens. Um. I believe

1317
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 1: somebody at Columbia Records set me up with boss. Um.

1318
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: You know, my my girl Stevie Um was just you know,

1319
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac was a mess, and she knew she wanted

1320
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: to make solo records. Um. And you know, and and

1321
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,559
Speaker 1: we've done dates together, Eagles and Fleetwood Mac. So you

1322
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 1: mostly meet these people out on the road, you know,

1323
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,759
Speaker 1: And how do you get involved with Howard Kaufman. Howard

1324
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 1: Kaufman was he and Larry Fitzgerald were running Jimmy Garcio's

1325
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: management business, and they were managing Chicago and the Beach

1326
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: Boys and maybe even Billy Joel. I don't know, I

1327
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: don't remember. But Howard was the kind of CFO guy,

1328
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 1: and Larry was kind of the general manager, you know,

1329
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: and Garcio as the producer. UM and I, you know,

1330
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: we and I we were recording up at Cariboo, the

1331
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 1: Eagles and stuff. I met Howard and Larry. UM. One

1332
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 1: thing led to another, and Howard ended up you know,

1333
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,719
Speaker 1: and Jimmy wasn't paying those guys what they were worth.

1334
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: And then Howard became a partner in the company, and

1335
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,520
Speaker 1: the rest is kind of history. What we were. Howard's

1336
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: roles as opposed to your roles, well, he kind of

1337
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: picked up the uh, you know, I was the I

1338
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 1: was the talent artist relations guy. UM. I would help

1339
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: the making of the records and the and you know

1340
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 1: kind of route the tours and stuff. But Howard would

1341
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,560
Speaker 1: all the you know, all the economics. He was a

1342
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: very gifted business manager. So deals, Okay, how do you

1343
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 1: end up at M c A. How did I end

1344
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: up at m c A. Uh, Well, the Eagles broke up,

1345
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac broke up Um, Steely Dan broke up Um Howard.

1346
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: We used to we used to have this act. We

1347
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: called me the pencil and him the eraser and uh

1348
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: and Howard said, you know, no matter how much money

1349
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: we've made, you know, you know, without all this income

1350
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: from these other people, we have to go sign other people.

1351
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: And all I know is I wake up one day

1352
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: and and we'd signed sticks and the go goes. After

1353
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: having the Eagles, Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac, Um and uh,

1354
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: somehow fell into UM this movie FM that I had

1355
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,719
Speaker 1: made it at Universal, where I took my name off

1356
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: because they had the right to take my name off

1357
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:56,600
Speaker 1: if I didn't like the movie, which they thought was hilarious.

1358
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: That I negotiated that right. So I did the soundtrack,

1359
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: which was very sick ccessful, and I took my name

1360
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 1: off the movie because I didn't like the movie, which

1361
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: they thought was fucking ridiculous. So I get a call

1362
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: one day from the UM and then UM. They had

1363
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 1: a guy running MCRE Records named Gene Frolick. And in

1364
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: those days, I think records were maybe I think they

1365
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: were that expensive yet, but okay, I think there were

1366
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 1: still si whatever. Frolick decided that Gaucho by Steely Dan,

1367
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: which was the last album they owed m c A, uh,

1368
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 1: should be it was a dollar or two whatever, dollar

1369
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: or two dollars more. Um, So Fagan and Becker and I,

1370
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 1: I said, listen, I've got a perfect way to let

1371
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: the public know that that we are not off, you know,

1372
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 1: that we're unhappy that they're charging this money. So I

1373
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: heard Mickey Rewden, who was this who was Frank Sinatra's

1374
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: lawyer in this high powered you know, on Steve Ross

1375
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,560
Speaker 1: at Warner's Layer, and I had him sue m c

1376
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 1: A on the grounds that we wanted out of our

1377
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,719
Speaker 1: country because um, they're not a proper record label, because

1378
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:08,839
Speaker 1: no record labels stupid enough to charge record And actually

1379
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: then they of course had to file for um summary

1380
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 1: judgment to get the case dropped, and we actually took

1381
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 1: Sheinberg's deposition and stuff. It was fucking hilarious, and Sheinberg

1382
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: thought that this was the greatest stunt ever. And of

1383
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 1: course we lost, and the album came out and did fine.

1384
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 1: But then I get this call from them one day

1385
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: and I was, I don't know, it must have been

1386
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:35,560
Speaker 1: I can tell exactly. I was thirty five and they said, UM,

1387
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: why don't you come be on our board and run

1388
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: the record company? And you know, I wasn't having any

1389
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: fun right then, and I and I turned it down

1390
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: a couple of times, and they kept coming back to me. UM.

1391
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 1: And I remember Shelley and I were at Caesar's Palace

1392
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. They used to have this big tennis

1393
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: tournament down there, UM, and we went down with our fringe,

1394
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: John McEnroe UM, and he was so and and at

1395
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: the time I was playing a lot of tennis and

1396
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 1: stuff and and so he was. He was down there.

1397
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: We were hanging out with John macarro and Bjorn Borg

1398
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 1: and you know, they were doing naughty things and it

1399
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: was just just really fun. And I remember Shelley come

1400
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:20,719
Speaker 1: in and get me, says, Steaming Knix is on the phone.

1401
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: She's crying blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So

1402
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: I get I picked up the phone and Stevie says

1403
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: to me, Um, she was signing her solo deal to UH,

1404
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: Danny Goldberg and UH and Paul on Modern Records, and

1405
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: she says, they say, you're being so mean to them,

1406
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: and you're charging them too much money, and you're gonna

1407
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: they can't afford to pay for me what you want, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,

1408
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 1: cter and and you know, and I just kind of

1409
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 1: threw up my hands. I said, Shell, you know what,

1410
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 1: that's a signal maybe I'm maybe I should just go

1411
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: do this right so I, you know, and then one

1412
01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:59,599
Speaker 1: thing lent to another, so I agreed to do it,

1413
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: Like I felt like, I've done interviews where I called

1414
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: him the music Cemetery of America, which Lew Wasserman said

1415
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: Chibrick thought was hilarious. And I had called him that

1416
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: joke of that joke of a record company in the

1417
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 1: valley nobody wants to sign with. And I kind of

1418
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 1: figured there was nowhere to go but up. Yeah, the

1419
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 1: label is essentially moribund. They had this act I took.

1420
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:23,839
Speaker 1: I took all the album covers of the current artists,

1421
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 1: and there's this there was this big long haul down

1422
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: at the in the quarter and in the offices, put

1423
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: them all up on the on the wall and and

1424
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: I and I made I mad, made all the new

1425
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: employees work. I said, this is the walk of shame,

1426
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: she said we would, And then one by one we

1427
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 1: dropped every act on the roster. Now suddenly you're on

1428
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: the other side. You're on the buying as opposed to

1429
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 1: the selling. Yeah, okay, And there was nothing there and

1430
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: it was the worst label in the business. How did

1431
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: you build it? Uh? Well, I made some mistakes. Uh.

1432
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: I bought a jone Jet record she was free after

1433
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: her big record on Casablanca. I bought a beat. I

1434
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 1: bought a Barry Gibbs solo record that stiffed. I bought

1435
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 1: a jone Jet record that's stiffed. I bought a Brian

1436
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 1: Wilson solo record that's stiffed. But I love, but I love,

1437
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: but I loved all. I loved two of the three. Um.

1438
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 1: But I also started a label within a label, you know,

1439
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: in in the black music department, and Clarence Avon helped

1440
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 1: me hire Gerald Busby and Little Silas, both of whom

1441
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: are no longer with us. UM And we built a

1442
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: label within a label. In those days, you'd have like

1443
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: kind of a white head of the of your music division.

1444
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: Then it would report in you know, there'll be a

1445
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: senior VP Black Music that was a white guy, right,

1446
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: and I made Gerald president of Black Music, and you know,

1447
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: and and I looked, I just let those guys go.

1448
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 1: You know, I helped them sign, you know, when they

1449
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 1: walk baby Face in l A and I convinced him

1450
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,759
Speaker 1: to sign, when they walked Teddy Riley, and I convinced

1451
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: him to sign. Um, we still knew it. We stole

1452
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: a new addition out from under Clive. He had a

1453
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 1: contract issue and we got there the last minute and

1454
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: overpaid and got him. And then I did the same

1455
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,680
Speaker 1: thing in Nashville with Jimmy Bowen and uh and uh

1456
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: other people where we started a country division, um you know,

1457
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 1: which became a you know, so basically the country and

1458
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 1: the black music divisions made us made our day. And

1459
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: then we bought Motown. So would you learn running a

1460
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: label as opposed to being a manager? Um, you know,

1461
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 1: I didn't like ever having to be on the other

1462
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: side of the talent table. This is kind of why

1463
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: I went back there. Okay, then it becomes an amazing operation.

1464
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: You leave, you form giant you have you know, you

1465
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: keep selling your company. And you were not as big

1466
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: then as you were previously and as you are now

1467
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: what what was going through your mind in those days

1468
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: in the nineties. Um, well the giant things started out okay, um,

1469
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: but it never exploded. You know, I kind of did

1470
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: the same stuff I'd done there, and you know, started

1471
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: country division, started a black music division, the whole thing that.

1472
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to build from scratch um in

1473
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: those days. Um. And so when the so we put

1474
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: the Eagles back together and signed journeys, So I said,

1475
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. So I still you know, so

1476
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: Roger Eames was at Warners at the time, So I

1477
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 1: sold the label. UM. And by the way, still even

1478
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: with a I don't want to call it unsuccessful, but

1479
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 1: a not major asset, still got paid more money than

1480
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:44,160
Speaker 1: I would have had, you know, salary for working you know,

1481
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,599
Speaker 1: the salary I would have made staying at Universal. UM.

1482
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 1: So it's still worked out, okay. And then I then,

1483
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, then I went back in the you know,

1484
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: that's when I go back in the management business. And

1485
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 1: then shortly after that, you know, kind of promoting a

1486
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: little bit of everything. I have no attention span, and

1487
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, and I know enough to know that you

1488
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: can do more for your artists if you have more

1489
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,640
Speaker 1: cloud than just managing artists and you can and you

1490
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: really need the platform and more than just a management business.

1491
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 1: You know, guys like Corn Capshaw. I've learned that really. Well,

1492
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: so what did you then get with the universe merging

1493
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: part of front Line with different companies? Well, we're what

1494
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 1: was the strategy and all that? Now, that was that

1495
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 1: you know that the front Line roll up with the

1496
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 1: strategy was to fight the consolidation of what was clear

1497
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: Channel and and and those guys at that point, okay,

1498
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, and then one and then you know, and

1499
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: then uh then it just keeps growing, you know, and

1500
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,719
Speaker 1: then h um, and then the Ticketmaster opportunity came around.

1501
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: I had one or two choices. I'd gotten the seed,

1502
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, when I got ready to merge with a

1503
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,719
Speaker 1: bunch of these other managers, we were we were all.

1504
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: I had this theory we'd all keep half our commissions

1505
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: and then the other half commissions we'd put in the pot.

1506
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: So it's kind of we'd all have incentive to take

1507
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 1: care our own acts, but also to look out for

1508
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: our partners. And then when it came time to close,

1509
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 1: you know, we had they're like four of us. Everybody was, well,

1510
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: where's our check? Right? And nobody wanted to put the

1511
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: half in the pot. They wanted me to buy that half. So, UM,

1512
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 1: I knew this guy named Scott Spurling who had been

1513
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 1: who was a Thomas Lee which is now thh Le

1514
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,519
Speaker 1: in Boston. I knew him because he was the student

1515
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: buyer and went to went to school with my brother

1516
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 1: at Purdue University, and just he calls me up one

1517
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: day and says, hey, I'm gonna buy Warner Music. Uh,

1518
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:34,280
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna put this guy, Jeff Quaton's in charge

1519
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 1: to run it. Can you consult us and help us

1520
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: get this deal done? And I went to Scott, first

1521
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: of all, you're not buying Warner Music. They're gonna use

1522
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:46,480
Speaker 1: you as a stocking horse. And Celty am I, okay too,

1523
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 1: You're not putting Jeff Quaton it's in charge of anything, okay.

1524
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: And so one thing led to another. Um, and of

1525
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: course they did buy Warner Music. Um. And he came

1526
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,519
Speaker 1: back to me and said, how about and I and

1527
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 1: I and we were friends, and I told him I

1528
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: know how all these you know, I wanted to emerge

1529
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: all these management businesses. He said, merge all the management

1530
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 1: businesses and then we'll merge it with Warner Music, right.

1531
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: And then when they when everybody said, oh, we need money,

1532
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 1: Scott came back to me and said, I'll put up

1533
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 1: the money, right. And so Scott and I, you know,

1534
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: th H D and I went in business to buy

1535
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: all these managers together. And then he comes and then

1536
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: he has Edgar Brockt been running Warner etcetera, etcetera. And

1537
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 1: then when the time and then he comes and says,

1538
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 1: we want to emerge. You change Warner Music into a

1539
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 1: different model. We're doing terrible right, uh, And we we

1540
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: have the deal done. And I think it was own

1541
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: a guy that owned timber Cent Providence owned timber Center

1542
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 1: Warner at the time, this guy Jonathan Nelson, who is

1543
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: a really nice guy. But Jonathan said it wasn't fair

1544
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 1: for th H Lee to make a profit when they

1545
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 1: sold Frontline Management and merged it with Warner, so he

1546
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: wanted Scott to scourge his profit to the partners. And

1547
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: Scott said, I'm not going to do that. And while

1548
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 1: that was going on, Barry Diller showed up and said, um,

1549
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: I'll you know, merge with Ticketmaster. I'll pay you more.

1550
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 1: And Scott said, take their check and and and we

1551
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,600
Speaker 1: and We basically thought in those days, you know, the

1552
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: record business was in the toilet, and we kind of felt,

1553
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 1: all of us, felt, all our managers, that we sat down,

1554
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 1: we all felt that UM, controlling Ticketmaster and putting us

1555
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:30,679
Speaker 1: in the life side of the business was a better

1556
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: idea than merging with the record label. But you a

1557
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 1: little bit get in the den of the wolf there

1558
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 1: with Barry Diller. Um. Yeah, Barry's a strong personality, a

1559
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 1: brilliant guy. He's made billions and billions and billions. But um,

1560
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,599
Speaker 1: I was a you know, my job because he you know,

1561
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 1: he had screwed Ticketmaster up so bad. Um. Their deal

1562
01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: was expiring with both a G and Live Nation. So

1563
01:26:59,160 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: it's clear, you know, right after I got there that

1564
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:04,680
Speaker 1: we had to do a deal with one of them.

1565
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 1: So my my that you know, my deal of choice

1566
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: was a G because my friend Tim was there. Um.

1567
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 1: So the truth is that we had a handshake UM

1568
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 1: to UM do a new long term deal with a G.

1569
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,759
Speaker 1: A G I think was getting like a fIF steak

1570
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 1: in Ticketmaster and return for a long term ticketing deal. Um.

1571
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:33,719
Speaker 1: And then uh, Phil Lanchitz and Barry Um I couldn't

1572
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,640
Speaker 1: get along and the deal fell apart. So then I

1573
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: went and made the Live Nation deal and lived happily

1574
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:45,520
Speaker 1: ever after. Yeah, so what kind of plane do you have? Now? Um?

1575
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: What kind of plane? I don't have any plane. My

1576
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,560
Speaker 1: wife has a plane? What kind of what? Shelley, what

1577
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 1: kind of plane does she have? She has? She has

1578
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 1: a she has a humble airplane. We fly private. Okay,

1579
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 1: it ain't that humble because you upgraded. So you upgraded

1580
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 1: from something not so humble to something a little less humble.

1581
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: So you don't want to mention the model the maker. No,

1582
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: it's not important. Okay. Many people will say economically, it

1583
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 1: doesn't pay to have your own plane, just use net chet.

1584
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 1: What's the thinking there? Um? Look, and a lot a

1585
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: lot of plants. Clients have planes and stuff too. Um.

1586
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: First of all, I think the plane is a is

1587
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 1: a great luxury, but it's also you know, I could

1588
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: I used to pre pandemic. I'm doing it again. You

1589
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 1: save up six seven stops and you go out, and

1590
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 1: you know you can go out and get done in

1591
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: three days. It would take you ten days if you

1592
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: find commercial city to city. But that that notwithstanding, the

1593
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: rule of thumb is if you're flying two hundred fifty

1594
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 1: hours a year or more as an entertainer and executive.

1595
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 1: Uh in in in a in a fractional jet. You

1596
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: should you're better off owning your own plane. Okay, So

1597
01:28:57,040 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 1: what's your take on YouTube now? Um? You know they've

1598
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:11,800
Speaker 1: just they still pay so little per per stream or

1599
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: per whatever you want to say, user or whatever. Um.

1600
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:19,160
Speaker 1: I think they're shocked that they're now getting another so

1601
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 1: many subscribers they're signing up for the pay service. Um,

1602
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's it's you know, they they're

1603
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 1: saying they paid four billion or whatever. You know, I've

1604
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 1: got analysis being done. It's not as rosy as it looks.

1605
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: But it's not as bad as it was. So you

1606
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 1: know they get a they get a C minus for

1607
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: me instead of an F these days. Um, but it's

1608
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:44,439
Speaker 1: getting better, it is getting better. What what will make

1609
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:46,599
Speaker 1: it get better? What would you like to see happen there?

1610
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,600
Speaker 1: You see is going to happen? Well, I contend with

1611
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 1: a company like YouTube, where they say YouTube wasn't making

1612
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 1: any money. When the worth of your company goes from

1613
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: a hundred million to a trillion five or whatever it

1614
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: goes to that you made money, there's different. There's two

1615
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: ways to make money, cash and and the valuation of

1616
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: you of your business. Their valuation of their business based

1617
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 1: on YouTube was went way up, you know, and and

1618
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: you know they and they got uh, they got into

1619
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 1: bed with the labels or you know, the labels are

1620
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: getting paid a bunch of money that isn't being shared

1621
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: with artists and producers. You know, Oh, YouTube is promotional, okay,

1622
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 1: so you don't have to pay a royalty on it,

1623
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: you know, and then they pay the labels all this

1624
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: flat money, and then you know, it's a look, it's

1625
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 1: a big fight, you know. The it's uh, we're never

1626
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 1: going to get a fair division between you know, creative

1627
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,559
Speaker 1: and whether it's YouTube or you know, or one of

1628
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:42,200
Speaker 1: the labels or or somebody. But we can get closer

1629
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: to the middle. And of the varying streaming companies left

1630
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 1: really three big ones, Apple, Amazon, Spotify. Do those maintain

1631
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:55,559
Speaker 1: their you know independence? Is there a merger there? How

1632
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: do you see that? There's no there's no merger there.

1633
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 1: You know, the personal regulators wouldn't allow it. There's no

1634
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 1: fit there, and they have different business plans. Amazon, you

1635
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:08,839
Speaker 1: know is you know, Amazon Prime is about getting loyalty

1636
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 1: from customers to their other business and they use music

1637
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 1: and movies and streaming for all of that. You know

1638
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 1: at you know Apple, Yes it's a services company, but

1639
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:22,679
Speaker 1: it's also um you know, hardware. But you know Apple

1640
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 1: is the only company that you know doesn't give anything.

1641
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 1: You know, they don't do any free okay, all right?

1642
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: And Spotify I think needs to do free for their

1643
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 1: business model. But you know, you know, you need a

1644
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: healthy Spotify because you know they're in one line of business.

1645
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: Amazon and Apple have other businesses. Um. So I think

1646
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 1: there's a nice balance now between the three. And from

1647
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 1: where you sit, you know, there's all this scuttle but

1648
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: about streaming payments, I'm talking about paid services. What's your

1649
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: viewpoint on that? Um? The services are paying a fair

1650
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: amount to for I p so, but I don't agree.

1651
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't agree with how it's divided, okay, meaning you

1652
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: know it's being used, you know, for a kid using

1653
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 1: it as a radio station and punching the button thirty

1654
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 1: five times while I'm at work, right and you know

1655
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: that record that he's punching thirty five times getting paid

1656
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: thirty five times. I've paid the same amount of money

1657
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: I work and then I come moment at night and

1658
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 1: listen to four tracks you know, my you know, but

1659
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:27,559
Speaker 1: my four tracks you know whoever those were don't get paid.

1660
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 1: What the you know what the one wrecked one new

1661
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: you know record that came out that the kids hit

1662
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:37,280
Speaker 1: played thirty five times during the day, So you know,

1663
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: I think it should be by the user, not not

1664
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 1: by the you know, not by the Okay, So now

1665
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 1: you're in the publishing business. Most people believe the streaming

1666
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: pive publishing gets uh too lower percentage. Do you agree

1667
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:54,759
Speaker 1: with that? Do you think? You know, there's some government

1668
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: regulations spotify for them. What's the future of publishing payments on?

1669
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 1: The general consensus amongst the artist groups is that the

1670
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 1: labels got too big a pie in the streaming versus

1671
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:13,799
Speaker 1: the publishers. Now Universal, Sony and Warner owned huge publishing companies,

1672
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 1: so they're getting this you know, but yeah, you know,

1673
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 1: but but but you know, so the argument that you

1674
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 1: would hear from publishers and writers is that, yeah, but

1675
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, they have a lot of administration deals and stuff.

1676
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 1: So when a dollar goes to the record company, the

1677
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 1: label keeps a lot more of it than when a

1678
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 1: dollar goes to their publishing company. I don't think they

1679
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 1: sat down and figured that out. Traditionally, labels in our

1680
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:40,839
Speaker 1: business took the artist development process and the marketing costs,

1681
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 1: and publishers, you know, got less per record because they

1682
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:47,719
Speaker 1: took less risk. They paid writer advances, but they didn't

1683
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 1: have marketing costs. They didn't have manufacturing costs. You know, now,

1684
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:55,280
Speaker 1: of course nobody has manufacturing costs. But there's just traditions.

1685
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,479
Speaker 1: And I think that's why publishers got less than they

1686
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: than they you know that that that then they should

1687
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: have gotten. Yeah, is there an imbalance? He isn't gonna

1688
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 1: get fixed. I doubt it. Okay, Now the big action

1689
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years is third party money.

1690
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 1: Scooter Braun took a huge check, he went through changes,

1691
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: ultimately sold out to the Koreans. We have Mercuriotis, we

1692
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: have Primary Wave. Is this all a good thing or

1693
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: not good thing? Um? Look the you know, look the

1694
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 1: great thing about um capitalism in general, UM is you know,

1695
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: everybody's got a chance to go invent and do things differently. UM.

1696
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Uh. I don't know scooters deals, but I

1697
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 1: know that uh. Um, I do know some of the

1698
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:51,280
Speaker 1: deals he made when he was acquiring management businesses and stuff,

1699
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: and the way in which they were done, and you know,

1700
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,800
Speaker 1: those managers end up losing clients and there wasn't full

1701
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: disclosure and stuff like that, so and and and you

1702
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I just think that UM, there's

1703
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 1: there's certainly within their rights to do what they want.

1704
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 1: UM merchs model. You know, I love the idea that

1705
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 1: marks out there bringing attention to UM the value of

1706
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,680
Speaker 1: I P because that helps artists. And I don't you know,

1707
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: if I don't want to if I don't want to

1708
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 1: match or right that big a check, I you know,

1709
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 1: I just say I can't do it. But I'm never

1710
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 1: gonna bitch when an artist gets more money. That's that's

1711
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:29,400
Speaker 1: why we exist. Speaking of the artist, what about the

1712
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:34,639
Speaker 1: seven year rule? The seven year rules are cake okay? UM.

1713
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,519
Speaker 1: When I was at Universal in the eighties, and I

1714
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:39,640
Speaker 1: was one of the guys that helped, you know that

1715
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 1: not help, but I certainly supported that we needed the

1716
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: exclusion from the seven year rule because you know, sometimes

1717
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 1: the band wouldn't happen to their fifth year, right, you

1718
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: get two albums in five years, you'd lose money and

1719
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 1: then so it was necessary. But these days, you know

1720
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:57,200
Speaker 1: how you know, how long did it really take Billie

1721
01:35:57,200 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: Eilish or Olivia Rodrigo or one of those to happen. So,

1722
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a changing marketplace, you know. And

1723
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 1: and the seven year rule is antiquated. So I mean,

1724
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the you know, the exception you know,

1725
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:10,840
Speaker 1: giving a record. The only people in the state of

1726
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 1: California to get an exception to the seven year labor

1727
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:17,160
Speaker 1: law are you know, people that are penalized or recording artists. So,

1728
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 1: but there's there's a compromise to be had. Uh and

1729
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, the bill will come back up in January. Uh,

1730
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 1: and they'll be a big fight and hopefully uh, reasonable

1731
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:30,160
Speaker 1: people will will work it out, you know. But you

1732
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 1: know the labels, you know, look, so the seven year

1733
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: things antiquated, but so is the uh um, you know,

1734
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:40,080
Speaker 1: the clause, the rerecording clause. You know, Taylor Swift's being

1735
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:44,680
Speaker 1: really successful right now right rerecording all her stuff. You know,

1736
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 1: labels have far more to worry about with that than

1737
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 1: they do the seven year statute. Okay, what is the

1738
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: future of the labels because now many people, you know,

1739
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: they can make the record without the label. They can

1740
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 1: put it on Spotify just like anybody else. Now obviously

1741
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 1: they have great I P. But going forward, you know,

1742
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:08,360
Speaker 1: look they're the banks, um. Now that they're all public

1743
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:12,760
Speaker 1: entities thinking quartered a quarter um there you know, I

1744
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 1: see the deals of titaned um and you know it's

1745
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 1: it's it's it's free enterprise, it's capitalism. So now that

1746
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 1: they're down to three and that their public companies sort

1747
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 1: of feels like they'll be flourishing. Independence coming at some point.

1748
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:34,640
Speaker 1: And the agency business, you'll say, the agencies have changed completely.

1749
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 1: You know, w M E does not make most of

1750
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 1: their business and not most of their money in Hollywood.

1751
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:42,880
Speaker 1: And do we even need an agent? Is you know

1752
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 1: we need this many agents? Look look there just uh yeah,

1753
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 1: I think we need agents. I believe in the agency system,

1754
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,240
Speaker 1: especially for you know, not everybody. The handful of major

1755
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: attractions don't need agents, but they have areas of their

1756
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,920
Speaker 1: life where their agents get them, you know, look at

1757
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,240
Speaker 1: after them. You know. Um. But in terms of the

1758
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:06,680
Speaker 1: personal appearance agency side of the business, um, most ex

1759
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 1: you know are needed. And you've got a lot of

1760
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: managers these days that an artists, sophisticated that really need

1761
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 1: the skills of an agent to make their make their

1762
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: live deals. So who do you learn from? Mm hmm,

1763
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: Well I learned the most from Don Henley and Glenn

1764
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:29,720
Speaker 1: Fry of everybody, a couple of lessons, you know. One

1765
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 1: of the earliest things, you know, Fry showed up in

1766
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: a T shirt that said song power and tossed me

1767
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 1: a T shirt that said phone power, and uh, you

1768
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:44,200
Speaker 1: gotta have great songs. I learned that from them. It's

1769
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 1: about songs, it's about lyric it's about distinctive melody. All

1770
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:52,640
Speaker 1: starts there, okay, But on a general level, like in

1771
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:55,519
Speaker 1: the Wall Street journals, say who are your mentors? Who's

1772
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 1: your club? Who's your club today? I had I had

1773
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 1: the good fortune, you know, to be around David Geffen

1774
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: and Elliott Roberts in the early days. Okay, Um, I

1775
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:08,879
Speaker 1: had Barry Diller in my life. I had Scott Spurgwing

1776
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:10,800
Speaker 1: and Teach Lee in my life. I had John Alone

1777
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 1: in my life. Right that that at Live Nation, those

1778
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,799
Speaker 1: are those are there's some Lou Wasserman and Sid Sheiberg

1779
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 1: were amazing, right. So, you know, I've been around some

1780
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 1: of the most you know, famous corporate minds in the

1781
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:29,719
Speaker 1: business and you pick up stuff and you learn stuff,

1782
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: but you know, eventually you turn it into your own. Okay,

1783
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:39,519
Speaker 1: So when you're in a quandary, who do you call Shelley? Okay?

1784
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:44,559
Speaker 1: And what does she tell you? Work harder? But how

1785
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:49,280
Speaker 1: about business insight? In terms of decisions? Who do you call? Um?

1786
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 1: Who are my mentors these days? Who do I call

1787
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:56,639
Speaker 1: business insights? Um? You know I have some really close

1788
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 1: personal friends, some of whom I'm in business with and

1789
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:05,160
Speaker 1: not but um, David Bonderman, tpg uh Egon Durban at

1790
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 1: silver Lake, Eddie Q at Apple. Um. You know, there's

1791
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:14,559
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of a lot of great people around.

1792
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:19,560
Speaker 1: Rapino and I talk regularly. I think he is brilliant

1793
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 1: and strategic and I learned a lot from him. I

1794
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:23,840
Speaker 1: can't tell you how much I learned from the Lye

1795
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:27,160
Speaker 1: Wicky brothers, from Tim and Todd uh Tim and Todd Lwicky.

1796
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:30,200
Speaker 1: So I got a lot of people around to bounce

1797
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: stuff off. And you still talk to Don Henley every day? Yes?

1798
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: And how long a conversation about what well it can be?

1799
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 1: You know, it can be some texting, but but you know,

1800
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:43,759
Speaker 1: you know, we either talk on the phone or multiple

1801
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 1: texts every day and personal or business both. Okay, So

1802
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:53,520
Speaker 1: the music business, what do we know? Sixties and seventies

1803
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 1: drove the culture If you were a musician who as

1804
01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 1: rich as anybody in America today we literally have billionaire

1805
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 1: it's okay, most almost none of them made their money

1806
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:08,519
Speaker 1: a former etcetera. In addition, once you start in the

1807
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: sixties to seventy five, it's a new business with evolution, okay,

1808
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: the switching and the deals from the Sid Bernstein deals

1809
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 1: to the Peter Grant deals, etcetera. Where's music place in

1810
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 1: the firmament now? And what is the future? Um? Music

1811
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 1: and is still a very important part of culture, probably

1812
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 1: more influential, um then it's ever been. It may not,

1813
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 1: it may not be throwing off the economics in terms

1814
01:41:36,479 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 1: of other people are making more money, but it's certainly

1815
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 1: as important to lifestyle and culture as as it's ever been.

1816
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:45,360
Speaker 1: So you know, for you know, if you want to

1817
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:47,479
Speaker 1: be I guess, if you're thinking how am I going

1818
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,960
Speaker 1: to become a multibillionaire, you've got to think of some

1819
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 1: crazy company to start that you can sell as to know,

1820
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 1: anything related to tech. But um, but if you want

1821
01:41:57,479 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 1: to influence culture, I would still say that a musician

1822
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 1: influences more than a than an actor or you know

1823
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:07,519
Speaker 1: any of that stuff. Okay, you have a million stories,

1824
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 1: tell us one or two of your favorite stories. I'll

1825
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 1: close with one great one. Okay. Um it is and

1826
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 1: and it's no secret that it has to be Joe Wallace, right,

1827
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 1: who is another one of my closest running mates for many, many,

1828
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: many many years. Um, which Joe Walls story? Do you want?

1829
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 1: You want a Keith Moon story or oh I got

1830
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:37,040
Speaker 1: a good one. So we were on the road tour

1831
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:42,599
Speaker 1: pre joining the Eagles, Joe Wah, Marshall, Tucker, Leonard Skinners, um.

1832
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:47,439
Speaker 1: And in those days, Um, Joe would hallucinate, and so

1833
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 1: we would get adjoining rooms and I'd leave the door open,

1834
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:52,559
Speaker 1: so in the middle of the night when the Martians

1835
01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:55,800
Speaker 1: came to take him, he'd run in my room yelling,

1836
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:57,720
Speaker 1: the Martians are coming, the Martians are coming. And I

1837
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 1: would just say, no, Joe, They're not go back to bed. Right.

1838
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:03,040
Speaker 1: So we get it. We're an upstate New York I

1839
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:07,040
Speaker 1: think it was like Syracuse or Albany or one of those.

1840
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: And uh, And we were in one of those round

1841
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:15,320
Speaker 1: holiday inns and we check in at the and they go,

1842
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:19,160
Speaker 1: we don't have any adjoining rooms. And you know, and

1843
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:21,960
Speaker 1: that's the first thing that travel agent, the tour manager

1844
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,840
Speaker 1: had because Joe couldn't couldn't sleep. He wasn't in the

1845
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,760
Speaker 1: joining room of me. And they said, but we have

1846
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: rooms next door to each other. There physically isn't two

1847
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:33,160
Speaker 1: rooms in the hotel that you know where the door

1848
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:35,639
Speaker 1: opens and it connects, I says, Joe, you'll be fine

1849
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 1: for one night. And you know, I said, you'll be

1850
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:40,080
Speaker 1: fine for one night. What what I'll do is I

1851
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:42,640
Speaker 1: won't double lock my door. I got two keys to

1852
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: my room. And when the Martians come in the middle

1853
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:46,360
Speaker 1: of the night, you go out in the hallway, you

1854
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 1: take one step to the right, you unlock my door.

1855
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 1: You come in and and and you kept me And

1856
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:54,439
Speaker 1: he says, I'm fine, that's great, no problem. Um. And

1857
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:56,240
Speaker 1: these are the days. So you know, you land at

1858
01:43:56,240 --> 01:43:58,720
Speaker 1: an airport, I'd call the office and I'd scribble on

1859
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 1: the back of a piece of paper thirty calls or

1860
01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:03,719
Speaker 1: so that I have to call back. So I'm sitting

1861
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 1: in my hotel room, chose in the in the room

1862
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:08,639
Speaker 1: next door to me, and you're sitting there and you're

1863
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 1: you're dialing one after the other and you know, you're

1864
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:13,479
Speaker 1: entering your credit card and you remember those days when

1865
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:18,080
Speaker 1: you know your course, you know. And I had given

1866
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 1: Joe it had had this horrible chainsaw on the road

1867
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 1: with him to saw things, uh, and it was one

1868
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 1: of those dirty ones that had like you had to

1869
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,760
Speaker 1: put a casoline in it and ship. So I got

1870
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:33,719
Speaker 1: him an electric chainsaw and mounted it in a guitar

1871
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 1: case and stuff. So he's got out his electric chainsaw, um,

1872
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:40,680
Speaker 1: and I hear it start, and I'm going so he

1873
01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:45,320
Speaker 1: saw you know, he's sawing up some furniture, no big deal, uh.

1874
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:48,000
Speaker 1: And then the wall, like I hear it, like into

1875
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 1: the wall, right. So I just keep making my phone

1876
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:52,600
Speaker 1: calls and it's getting louder and louder, and then I

1877
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: see the thing come through the door. So he's made

1878
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:58,759
Speaker 1: an igloe sized cut all, you know, like an opening

1879
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 1: to an igloo around like semicircle. And then he and

1880
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:04,720
Speaker 1: then he's you know, kicking it and pushing it and

1881
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,719
Speaker 1: you know, the plasters breaking, and the ship comes through,

1882
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 1: and I just keep making my calls and he crawls

1883
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:13,439
Speaker 1: through the hole in the wall between the two of us,

1884
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 1: and he looks up at me and he says, and

1885
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:22,080
Speaker 1: I made it just your size, but a big I

1886
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:23,800
Speaker 1: just have to ask one more question. You have all

1887
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:27,439
Speaker 1: the stories and stories on the road. The manager of

1888
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,720
Speaker 1: the hotel finds out, what do you do? Just have

1889
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:31,760
Speaker 1: a huge stack a hundred dollar bills? How do you

1890
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:35,639
Speaker 1: get out of this? You pay road manager, tour manager

1891
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:37,519
Speaker 1: deals with it and and as long as you have

1892
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 1: enough money, it all works. Yeah. Well, you can't do

1893
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:42,560
Speaker 1: it these days. First of all, people film ship and

1894
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 1: they put it up. You can't get away with this

1895
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: ship anymore. You go to jail for it. Now. Somebody

1896
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:52,759
Speaker 1: would have filmed it right right, Okay, thanks Bob Irving.

1897
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:57,120
Speaker 1: We we've just you know, hit the surface of the planet.

1898
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:00,519
Speaker 1: But we can do it again. You know, wh where's

1899
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:06,280
Speaker 1: this air? Where's this air? Where? Yea both where. It's

1900
01:46:06,280 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 1: gonna be on literally every podcast service. We are I

1901
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:13,000
Speaker 1: Heart products, So it'll be on the i Heart platform,

1902
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 1: beyond the Spotify platform, beyond the Stitcher platform, beyond the

1903
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:20,479
Speaker 1: Apple platform, beyond the Mzon platform, so it's on all

1904
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 1: of the big things. I'm sure you know that everyone

1905
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:27,760
Speaker 1: will be scrambling to hear your words of well you

1906
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: keep up the good work Bob. You're doing and by

1907
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 1: and by the way, as you know, I'm a big fan,

1908
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:34,960
Speaker 1: and you're you're you're hitting it out of the park.

1909
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:38,439
Speaker 1: You're doing good. Thanks so much for taking the time irving.

1910
01:46:38,479 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, so until next time. This is

1911
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 1: Bob left sets