1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz. 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: Show on iHeartRadio. Last episode, I suggested that single people 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: do a digital detox for the summer and cut off 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: all online dating, go the analog route, meet people in 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: real life. But it's funny because all the emails I've 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: gotten about that monologue are from non single people saying 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: they too, are thinking of taking a digital break this summer. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: I've talked about this on the show before. 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: Because for so many people, just being online is such 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: a problem, and they know that they are on too 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: much and they know that they would be happier if 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: they weren't. 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I am one of those. 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: People for sure, And every summer I take a few 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: weeks off from Twitter, and it's very hard. 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: I struggle with it a lot. 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: I take the app off my phone, and I've told 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: the story on here because I can't have the icon 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,639 Speaker 2: on my phone because I'll be clicking it, and in fact, 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: my finger clicks the blank space for many days before 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: it gets used to the. 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: App not being there. 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: Having said all that, I love my Twitter break and 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: I look forward to it every summer, and it's Twitter 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: that I take a break from because Twitter is my 26 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: problem app. I just don't have that same kind of addictive. 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: Behavior with other apps. 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: If you're thinking of a phone break or a specific 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: app break. 30 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: Do it. 31 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: Summer is a really good time to do that, as 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: things slow down a little bit. I can also assure 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: you that the big stories that I miss when I'm 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: on my Twitter break have mostly disappeared by the time 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: I get back online. It's actually amazing to watch how 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: a news cycle happens. 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: And then just I feel like. 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: People are hungry for a break from being online. I 39 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: think some people maybe just need permission to take one. 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: So this is it. 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: This is your signal to make a serious break with 42 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: your phone. 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: It can be an. 44 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 2: App you're addicted to, or texting or all of it. 45 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: Give yourself a set time. I like to do two weeks, 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: nothing crazy. You can do shorter, you can do longer. 47 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: Again. 48 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: For single people, I would suggest a whole summer of 49 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: no dating apps, just to see if the sensation of 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: being off them will lead you to meet somebody offline. 51 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 4: We don't have to ditch the internet forever. 52 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: I love the Internet, but we all know we overuse 53 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: and abuse it. 54 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: So let's take a break together and see how it goes. 55 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: Coming up next and interview with Jennifer Say. Join us 56 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: after the break. Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show 57 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Jennifer Say. This is 58 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: going to be a longer intro than I normally give you, guys, 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: because I really want to sum up. 60 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 4: Who Jennifer Say is. 61 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Jennifer's an American author, filmmaker, business executive, and retired artistic gymnast. 62 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: She was a seven time member of the US women's 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: national team and was the nineteen eighty six US women's 64 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: all around national champion. Her first memoir, Chalked Up, was 65 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: released in two thousand and eight and detailed abuse in 66 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: the sport of gymnastics. Say also produced the twenty twenty 67 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: Emmy Award winning documentary film athlet Athlete a on Netflix, 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: which connected the crimes of Larry Nasser to the broader 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: abuses in the Olympic movement. Say began working at Levi 70 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: Straussen Coe in nineteen ninety nine, rising to Chief Marketing 71 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: Officer and then brand president. She was named one of 72 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: Billboard's Most Powerful People in Music and Fashion in twenty sixteen, 73 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: and was twice named to Forbes' Most Influential CMO List 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen eight twenty twenty. Starting in twenty twenty, 75 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: she risked her reputation, community and friendships to speak up 76 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: against the harm being done to children due to the 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: extended closure of San Francisco, Cisco's public schools. She resigned 78 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: from Levi's in twenty twenty two very publicly, and has 79 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: been focused on her own writing and filmmaking projects. She 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 2: has a documentary film in post production called Jennifer Sorry, 81 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: Generate Jennifer Covid Generation Covid about the harms Yeah, about 82 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: the harms to children from prolonged school closures, And now 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: she is starting her own brand, xx Xy Athletics. She's 84 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: the mother of four and lives in Denver with her family. Jennifer, 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: So nice to have you on. 86 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Carol, It's so great to 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: talk to you. 88 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: I have to start off by telling you that a 89 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: lot of non political or maybe like mildly political people 90 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: in my life really love you. And that's really why 91 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: I wanted to give your full intro, because I wanted 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: people to like get you know your I interview a 93 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: lot of different kinds of people on this show, but 94 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: I think you're sort of a unique person. I've had 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: friends in New York who would say to me, you 96 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: know who, I like that, Jennifer say, and so what's 97 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: interesting to me about that is you have all this 98 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: crossover appeal. You could have picked a completely safe political 99 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: issue to engage in. You could have gone into, you know, 100 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: climate change activism. Nobody would have ever sent you any 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: hate mail. But you famously fought to open schools during 102 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: the pandemic, something that everyone now believes was the right 103 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: thing to do, obviously, And now you have xxxy athletics 104 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: and you're fighting for girls sports. 105 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: Why woo. That's a great question, Carol. And when I 106 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 3: ask myself all the time, because I certainly could have 107 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 3: made my life much easier, much easier. Yeah, I think 108 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 3: you know, I'm sort of like this reluctant activist now, 109 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: I guess. And I would say it probably started all 110 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: the way back in two thousand and eight when I 111 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 3: wrote my book about exposing the abuses in the sport 112 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: of gymnastics, which sounds sort of like not controversial now, right, 113 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: Everybody's like, oh God, Larry Nassar. 114 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: Has that terrible abuse, right, Yeah, no one's probus. 115 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: Although I will tell you. You know, when I wrote these 116 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: things back in two thousand and eight, it was incredibly controversial. 117 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: You have to remember this is before me too, and 118 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 3: for all its excesses, I think that movement did some 119 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: good until it probably jumped the shark, and we can 120 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 3: we can talk about that. But you know, the idea 121 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 3: that you could come forward and say this is unacceptable, 122 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 3: this happened to me, that wasn't true in two thousand 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: and eight, you know, And I because I had continued 124 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: to suffer from the abuse over twenty years after I 125 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: left the sport, it just felt really important to me 126 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: to tell that story in order to help protect young 127 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 3: girls who were still competing. No idea at the time 128 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 3: that NASA was happening, although of course not surprising. The 129 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: national team coach in the eighties who I wrote about 130 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: was a serial rapist. Essentially, we traveled underage girls around 131 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 3: the world with this man, and everybody whispered about it, 132 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: and it was very clear you were not supposed to 133 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 3: talk about it. We were to protect the reputations of 134 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: the sport, the federation, as well as these well regarded coaches. 135 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: So that was my first experience being you know, really, 136 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: I guess dragged across the internet, and it strengthened my 137 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: resolve because it just made me feel like, what are 138 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: they hiding? This is a true thing that really needs 139 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: to be spoken about in order to protect children. I 140 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: think that I guess at the end of the day, 141 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: I've realized, after however many years, that I can't stand 142 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: to see children put in harm's way. And I really 143 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: wish somebody had stood up for me when I was 144 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: competing and no one did. Everybody accepted the narrative that 145 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: we were these like shiny, happy little gymnists bouncing around, 146 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: but what was happening is, then. 147 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: How does that happen? How do people ignore saying there 148 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: were whispers? And you know, there was a lot of 149 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: that in the me too thing. Also, like every time 150 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: somebody would get kind of me tooed, there'd be this 151 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: chorus of people saying like, oh, everybody knew about him, Like. 152 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: If everybody knew, why didn't anybody do anything? Because at 153 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 3: the time, and again I'll go sort of pre me too, 154 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: you knew what would happen to you if you spoke 155 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: about it, you would be you know, demonized. The way 156 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,239 Speaker 3: I was as a grifter and a liar and a bitter, 157 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: angry ex gymnast just trying to make a bug I mean, 158 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: never mind the fact I was already a vice president 159 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 3: at Levi's. I was a very successful corporate executive. I 160 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: didn't need whatever pittance you make from writing a book, 161 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: which ends up being about a dollar an hour, maybe 162 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: if you, if you, you know, when all is said 163 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: and done, I really did it with the best intentions 164 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: to expose these coaches and help protect young girls. And 165 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 3: you know, if USA Gymnastics at the time had taken 166 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: some of my claims seriously instead of spending all their 167 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 3: time trying to you know, vilify me and make me 168 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: into some sort of a liar, then told numbers of 169 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: young athletes would have been saved, not just from Nasar 170 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 3: but from many others. But that's not what they spent 171 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: their time doing. They spent their time, you know, questioning 172 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: my credibility. And the interesting thing, Carol, was none of 173 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: the young women, none of the women we weren't young 174 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 3: even at the time, came to my defense. The women 175 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: piled on too because they were sort of, I don't know, 176 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: indoctrinated into this kind of coat like environment that was gymnastics, 177 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: and they wanted to protect. They wanted to still be 178 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 3: part of it, right, you know, they wanted to be 179 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 3: in good standing. They still were chasing the approval of 180 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 3: these coaches at forty years old. And it's crazy, and 181 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: I guess you live in this really microcosmic world and 182 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: it becomes normalized. And so what was said was, Oh, 183 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: that's not abuse, it's tough coaching. Oh, it's a fuzzy line. 184 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: It's not a fuzzy line. I trained on a broken 185 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: ankle for two years. Yeah, you know, my weight was 186 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 3: announced in a loud speaker. Food was take can out 187 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: of our hands. Our body fat was tested regularly. We're 188 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: all in the sort of one to two percent range. 189 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 3: I didn't even get my period till I was nineteen. Wow. 190 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 3: You know, so this is not fuzzy. This is abuse. 191 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: This is emotional and physical abuse. And the case that 192 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: I make in the book and we then reinforce an 193 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 3: athlete A is that this culture of physical and emotional 194 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 3: abuse lays the groundwork for sexual abuse to occur because 195 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 3: you become so disoriented as a child. You know, I 196 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: think you're hungry, you're told you're a fat pig, you 197 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: think you're in pain and you know, you're told you're 198 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: a lazy piece of garbage, and so you know, imagine 199 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: what that's like walking in them to NASCAR's office that disoriented. 200 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: And I never did. I was never treated by the man. 201 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: Imagine you already questioned your own perception of the. 202 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: World, right, I think you know the whole thing about 203 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: kind of training girls and I mean all kids really, 204 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: but girls specifically not to speak up in their own defense. 205 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 4: You see that a lot and the trans movement. 206 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: You're not allowed to say, I don't feel comfortable with 207 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: this biological boy sleeping in my room if that boy 208 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: says that he's a girl. So it becomes like girls 209 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: are told to quiet that voice that kind of makes 210 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 2: them safe, usually that keeps them safe. 211 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 4: They're told to say, ignore that voice and do what 212 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 4: we tell you. 213 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: Be a good little girl, be quiet, sit down. And 214 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 3: within gymnastics, it's this subjective sport. And so if you 215 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: speak up and you make yourself a problem, you might 216 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: not be chosen for the team. You might not be 217 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 3: even if you make the team, you might not be 218 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 3: picked for the lineup. And so you know, I had 219 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: this bizarre childhood where obedience was just drilled into me. 220 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 3: You were to be seen and you were to perform, 221 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: and you were not to be heard. And I carried 222 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 3: that with me into adulthood. But I finally got to 223 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: the point where I couldn't take it anymore. You know, 224 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: I was still suffering, even as this sort of successful 225 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: corporate executive. I had. You know, the word trauma is 226 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: so overused, but I had terrible nightmares and anxiety and 227 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: just terrible imposter syndrome. I thought I was worthless, and 228 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 3: so I wrote the book to kind of sit down 229 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 3: and make sense of it all. And then, of course 230 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: it didn't immediately open the floodgates, but eventually people did 231 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 3: come forward. I mean, the Nasar case, you know, blew 232 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: the whole thing wide open, and so I think that 233 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: sort of laid the groundwork for me to say I 234 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 3: will not abide a lie. The lie in that case was, 235 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: you know, these were good, upstanding coaches who wanted what 236 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: was best for these children. And so when COVID came around, 237 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: and I was at this point considered a lead leader 238 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 3: in this, in the Olympic movement and exposing abuse in 239 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: sports from day one, and I think you and I 240 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 3: encountered each other pretty early on I was like, this 241 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 3: is not good for children. And of all the things 242 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: that were happening, and of all the liberalism and just 243 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: terrible policies, it was what the harm being done to 244 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: children then bothered me the most, and the hypocrisy because 245 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 3: in a place like San Francisco, and I believe you 246 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 3: were in still New York. You were still in New 247 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: York at the time, you had private schools opening and 248 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: published school kids went to school, you know they did. 249 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: All four of his kids went to school. And yet 250 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: you had everybody screaming at you that you were a 251 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: murderer if you advocated for the most vulnerable children. Because 252 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 3: in San Francisco, I think sixty percent of the kids 253 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: in public school are on free and reduced lunch. They're living, 254 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 3: you know, either you know, at or below the poverty 255 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: line or just above it. These kids did not have 256 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: viable conditions at home for this to work. 257 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 5: Not that it worked for anyone, not right, right, right, 258 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 5: But people with means had more opportunities. You know, I 259 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 5: say this all the time that you know, I lived 260 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 5: in a very far left part of Brooklyn, and those 261 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 5: parents either got their kids that's a private tutor, and 262 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 5: they formed a pod, or they moved to their beach house. 263 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 4: And sent them to the open school there, or they 264 00:13:58,720 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: sent them to private schools. 265 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 3: I mean, they had options, that's right, And so it's 266 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: sort of you know, mid milder the impact, although in 267 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 3: the film that I'm making, you'll see that no one 268 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: was really spared because the isolation came for everyone. And so, 269 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 3: you know, you and I come from opposite side of 270 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: the aisle, I suppose, because I was this good lefty 271 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 3: who had lived in San Francisco my whole life. 272 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: Never a good lefty, good, I say, But. 273 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: You know, I look, I don't know what I am now, 274 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 3: but you know, I sort of occupied that kind of 275 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 3: space on the spectrum because what I believed in I 276 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 3: still believe in. 277 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: Right. 278 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 3: I thought the left believed in, you know, protecting the 279 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: vulnerable from greedy corporate interests. I thought the left believed 280 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 3: in protecting children, especially those who are most vulnerable. Free speech, 281 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 3: like all these things I still believe. 282 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: In, right, Right, I don't, at least the public school system, Like, 283 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: how does the left not defend the public school system? 284 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: That makes no sense? 285 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 3: You know, it made no sense. And you know, small 286 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: business owners, right, all of it, the left, you know, 287 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: it was such a violation of their own stated valleys, right, 288 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, I just care 289 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: about the truth and I care about children, And you know, 290 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 3: I entered into that debate a little bit naively, just 291 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: like I answered into the conversation about abuse in sports, thinking, well, 292 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: it's it's true, that it's true ad for children, and so 293 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: everybody will come around and see it now in gymnastics. 294 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: That took ten years from when I first talked about it, 295 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 3: and so I, you know, I underestimated the time that 296 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 3: it would take. And we're still, you know, as you mentioned, 297 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: we're starting to see it now, this reckoning. But you know, 298 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: I would argue that the most committed true believers on 299 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: the activists left still won't acknowledge that, oh, yeah, school 300 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 3: closures were not only ineffective, but incredibly harmful to children. 301 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 4: Right, some of them, I mean. 302 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: And then you have Randy Winegarden, who has rewritten her 303 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: role completely. Although she wanted schools open the whole time, 304 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: it turns out we just otedgi yeah, fac. 305 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 4: She also wanted schools open all the time. 306 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: So then you go born in San Francisco, which basically 307 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 3: was recalled in twenty twenty two, and so I guess 308 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 3: I just you know, the brand if we kind of 309 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 3: come back to that which I just launched called XXXY 310 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 3: Athletics again, it feels sort of to me like the 311 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: culmination of everything I've ever done in my life, you know, 312 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: as a former elite athlete, certainly a beneficiary of Title nine, 313 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: started gymnastics just two years after the Title nine passed. 314 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: I seem not to mind too much saying controversial things. 315 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: I have the patience to kind of keep saying them 316 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: until people join the fight. And I'm a seasoned business 317 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: executive with a ton of experience in fashion. So you know, 318 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: when I thought about how can I contribute to this 319 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: conversation and this bizarre cultural conflict is happening about, you know, 320 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: essentially the erasure of girls and women and the elimination 321 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 3: of Title nine, I thought this is the way for 322 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: me to do it, To start a brand that normalizes 323 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: speaking up and standing up for girls, because I think 324 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 3: brands can have significant cultural impact. And unfortunately on the 325 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: right or center right, or even sort of the non 326 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 3: far left, they've sort of seeded this territory to the 327 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 3: far left activists. And I'm good at this. I know 328 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 3: how to do it. I'll make great product, really resonant marketing, 329 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 3: and hopefully over time kind of make it okay to 330 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: put on the shirt and stand up and say wait 331 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: a minute, because you know what, most people agree with 332 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: us on this issue, right absolutely. 333 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: I think when you talk to any kind of normy 334 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 2: person who doesn't spend their lives on Twitter or being 335 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: an activist, they'll say, of course. 336 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 4: Biological boys shouldn't be in girls' sports. 337 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: That's so obvious. 338 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break and be right 339 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: back on the Carol Marcoit Show. You talk about the 340 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: brand and making a statement, but I think that your 341 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: other point is really important, that you're making a quality product. 342 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 2: I don't think people will buy a brand just to 343 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: make a statement for very long. Maybe they'll buy the originals, 344 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: you know, but I think your product is so good 345 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: that you're going to have kind of a longer, you know, potential, 346 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: because you don't you don't want to just be a 347 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: statement piece, you know, because that's that's one. 348 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 3: T shirt and that's it. I think it's a gimmick. Yeah, 349 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: it's a gimmick. It's not the way you build a 350 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 3: brand for the long term. People need to love the 351 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: product to come back again and again. And so my 352 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 3: goal from the outset was to make world class product 353 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: that competes with Nike and Lulu and is just as good, 354 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 3: you know, performs just as well and fits just as well, 355 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 3: and it's flattering and moisture waking in all of those 356 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: amazing things, and super cute, so you feel great and 357 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: you look great when you're when you're wearing it, because yeah, 358 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: of the day, people might buy a cute T shirt 359 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 3: one time, but you're not going to build a brand 360 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 3: for the long term. And you know, we're also unapologetic 361 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 3: about the fact that we're in this to run a 362 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 3: really disciplined business and make money, which doesn't mean that 363 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: the point of view isn't heartfelt. And it's a sort 364 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: of opening in the marketplace. No one's willing to do this. 365 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: I looked around at all the athletic brands, everything from 366 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 3: Nike to Lulu to you know everything in between. They 367 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: all claim to stand up for women. Not one has 368 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: stood up for women in this case, so it's a lie. 369 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 3: They don't care about women and girls, And in fact, 370 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 3: Nike in particular is notorious for treating actual women and 371 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 3: girls in their ecosystem like garbage, with just utter disregard. 372 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 3: And so you know, when I saw last year Nike 373 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: did their little social campaign with Dylan mulvaney in support 374 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 3: of their sports bras, they hired a non athlete, which 375 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: they never do, a trans person with no boobs. As 376 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: far as I can tell, at least, there's some points 377 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 3: to market a really functional product that we all need 378 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 3: in order to participate in sports. And I went, no, way, 379 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: this is not okay. We need to we need to 380 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 3: get back to normalcy. And you know, I still have 381 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: a lot of friends who are sort of war on 382 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: the left. Everyone to your point is like, yeah, of 383 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 3: course that doesn't make any sense. It's not there. It's 384 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 3: not safe, and you know, we deserve privacy, safety and fairness. 385 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: It's really that simple. And so I just want to 386 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 3: encourage people to kind of come out of the shadows 387 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 3: and say the thing they're all thinking. Give them the 388 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 3: confidence to do that. 389 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: So your activism sort of across you know, protecting girls 390 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: from predators and then about you know, COVID kind of 391 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: overreactions and helping kids recover from that, and now protecting 392 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: girls in sports. 393 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 4: Does it have a common theme. 394 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: Like a question I ask on the show, is you know, 395 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: what do you think is our largest cultural problem? Is 396 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: there like a thread that ties those together? 397 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: I think so. I think the thread is standing up 398 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 3: for children and speaking truth. It's kind of that simple. 399 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 3: None of these things should be political, not right, This 400 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: is not politics. This is about what is true. And 401 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: up until about five minutes ago, we all knew that 402 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: it was true that male and female bodies are different, 403 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 3: and that's why we created this category of women's sports. 404 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 3: Suddenly we've lost our minds that we don't know that anymore. 405 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 3: Now your sex is what you say it is, and 406 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: it's a lie. And I will not carry a lie forward, 407 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 3: not through me. I will not abide it. The thing 408 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 3: that terrifies me is if we can all be forced 409 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 3: to say a lie, anything is possible, right, any terrible 410 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 3: destructive practice is possible, and so I won't. I won't 411 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: do it. You know, think about the lie that was 412 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 3: furthered in gymnastics. To go back to a sort of 413 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 3: non controversial now issue, it was that these coaches were all, 414 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: you know, well intentioned, and they wanted to develop young 415 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: girls and strong young women. That was a lie. They 416 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 3: were harming them. Some of them have been harmed in 417 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 3: ways that are you know, just incredibly lasting. You know, 418 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 3: I know people who were sexually abused in the sport 419 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 3: that really have not recovered yet. They're grown women, so 420 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: you know, furthering this lie which we're told is benign, 421 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 3: it's not benign. It's incredibly harmful. And so I think 422 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 3: that's the commonality if it relates to children and the 423 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 3: protection of children, and if it's not grounded in truth, 424 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 3: if there is an ideology or a practice that is 425 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 3: utterly ungrounded in truth, I can't really sit by and 426 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 3: be quiet. And now I'm not afraid anymore, because you know, 427 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 3: after you go through it couple times and you realize 428 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 3: you can survive, Yeah, you realize you can survive, then 429 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: you know you're less afraid, and you do realize that 430 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: people will join you over time. Most people would rather 431 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 3: stand with the crowd than stand apart and do the 432 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 3: right thing. But slowly but surely you can bring them 433 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: over when you speak true, slowly but surely. 434 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 4: So you've survived and you're not afraid. Do you feel 435 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 4: like you've made it? 436 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it still stinks, you know, as you know, 437 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 3: and it's like escalated to a new level with this issue. 438 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 3: I actually get voicemails now, which is sort of crazy 439 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: and incredibly intrusive, you know, because it's not on social media. 440 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: It's like in your ear on the phone. So you know, 441 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 3: at first that was a little upsetting. Now it makes 442 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: me laugh. So, you know, I'm starting this new journey. 443 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 3: I'm in my mid fifties. That's a scary thing to do. 444 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: I never wanted to be great things. I never wanted 445 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 3: to be a founder, but I believe I have the 446 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 3: constitution for it, and so it's you know, it's going 447 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 3: to be a tough, long journey, but I'm having the 448 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 3: time of my life. I mean, it is so much fun. 449 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 3: But I think the thing about Type A people like 450 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 3: me is you never feel like you've made it. You 451 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: just keep striving. 452 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I get that. I feel like sometimes I feel 453 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 4: like I've made it and other times less. 454 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I have my moments. I mean I feel 455 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 3: like I've made it in that I have an amazing family. 456 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: I have a great husband who is supportive of me 457 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 3: no matter what. He's a stay at home dad. So 458 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 3: it enables me to kind of really commit myself to 459 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: this he loves being a stay at home dad. We 460 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 3: moved to Denver, which was tough. You know, you had 461 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: been a lifelong New Yorker. I'd been a lifelong almost 462 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 3: San Franciscan, and I lived there over thirty years. I 463 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 3: loved that place, started over, made new friends. I mean, 464 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 3: this is it. Yeah, this is as good as it gets. 465 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 3: And I get to do my own thing with this 466 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: amazing group of talented people and we're having a blast, 467 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 3: and you know, we'll live or die in our own merits. 468 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 3: I think we're going to make it because I think 469 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 3: there's demand for a brand that really stands up for women. 470 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I agree. 471 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 4: I think that that's a unique space to occupy, which. 472 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 3: Is sad but true. 473 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: And you know, I see you as a defender of 474 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: women and children. 475 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 3: Really. I think that's fair because you know, if we 476 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 3: go back to COVID, that was one of the other 477 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: things that I found really upsetting is it was women 478 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 3: that were driven out of the workforce. 479 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 4: Right right. 480 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: I remember all those articles like women say that they're 481 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: not you know, working, and that's a problem, Like, really, 482 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 2: what was that that led them to not work? 483 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: Could it be schools being closed? 484 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, I mean, can I know what it 485 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: was like trying to work at home. I had four 486 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: kids at home. You can imagine what it was like 487 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 3: to work in a corporate environment. When your business goes 488 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 3: like this to this overnight, it's terrifying. 489 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: I mean she's pointing out high to low therese people 490 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: listening on audio so here. 491 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: I mean like we were looking at numbers that were 492 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: like down seventy percent versus you know, prior year in 493 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 3: a week. Now, I get this is nuts. And a 494 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 3: lot of women, you know, I think women still haven't 495 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 3: come back to the workforce in the same numbers that 496 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 3: men have, and so it absolutely impacted not only children 497 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 3: but women, and that that was really important to me 498 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 3: as well. So I don't know, We'll see. It's like 499 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: it's really weird to start something new at this point 500 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 3: in your life. You know, I thought I would retire, 501 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: if not at Levi's, then you know, at some other 502 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: fashion apparel company as ideally the CEO the big established company. 503 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 3: I didn't ever have the desire to do a startup. 504 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: I didn't want to do all this stuff like, you know, 505 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 3: figure out benefits and find an office, right Yeah, But 506 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 3: I realized I'm pretty good at that, and I'm I 507 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 3: think an exception in that. You know, I came from 508 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 3: having had a team of over a thousand, and I 509 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 3: can work with a team of four and do everything myself. 510 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 3: I like doing it. You know, you get if you 511 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 3: work in corporate America, you get very removed from the 512 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: work that you actually love doing, which is making products 513 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 3: and you know great content. You spend a lot of 514 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 3: time in a boardroom deciding you know, who's getting laid 515 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 3: off next, and making PowerPoint presentations and that was no fun. 516 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 3: So I can't really think of anywhere i'd rather be 517 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 3: right now. And we're off to an amazing start, so 518 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 3: I've got I've got really high hopes. So we'll see. 519 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 3: I guess I've made it. If being happy is making it, 520 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 3: then that's it. Yeah. I love that. 521 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: Well. 522 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: I've loved talking to and here. 523 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: With your best tip for my listeners on how they 524 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 2: can improve their lives. Maybe, you know, make changes to 525 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: themselves or to the world around them like you do. 526 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: I think you have to be able to look yourself 527 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: in the mirror, and I think you have to be 528 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 3: able to speak truth when it is necessary. I just 529 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day I started 530 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: my COVID dissenting, sort of naively thinking, well, this is 531 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 3: so obvious. Everyone's as I you know, as I progress, 532 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 3: I realize, okay, people aren't coming around. But I persisted 533 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 3: because it was important and I feel like I live 534 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: a life of integrity, and that's part of why I 535 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 3: feel happy. And I think I would be rotting on 536 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: the inside if I hadn't. And I, you know, shut 537 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 3: up just to maintain a reputation that was built on 538 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 3: falsehoods and me staying quiet, How could I call myself, 539 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 3: you know, a woman that is confident and says true things, 540 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 3: and even a feminists, which I do consider myself. If 541 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 3: feminism is you know, women deserve equality of opportunity, well 542 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 3: you got to live that. You gotta fight for it absolutely. So, 543 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 3: you know, I think if you surround yourself with great 544 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 3: people who support you and you live in the truth 545 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 3: this is good things will happen. It might be hard, 546 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 3: but good things will happen, and you'll feel whole as 547 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 3: a person. That's the thing. I couldn't live any other way. 548 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: She is Jennifer Say check out her brand XXXY. 549 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: Really love talking to you, Jennifer, Thank. 550 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 3: You, thank you. For having me. Carol, it's great to 551 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 3: see you. 552 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marcowitz Show. 553 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 2: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.