1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Then the question would be, how do we get a 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: hair sample from Justin Trudeau? And we probably could. We 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: recruit somebody who works in a hotel, get one of 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: his hairs, capture his pea toilet tap. 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Oh shit, I never knew about that. I never thought 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: about getting the pee. That's so cool, stealing people's pee 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: and poop. Yeah, oh yeah, Well, of course. 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 3: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry o'she. I served in 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 3: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 3: all around the. 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: World, and in my thirty three years with the CIA, 12 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,319 Speaker 3: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 3: created conspiracies. 15 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: In our operations. We got people to believe things that 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: weren't true. 17 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 3: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the 18 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: news almost every day. 19 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: We'll break them down for you to determine whether they 20 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: could be real or whether we're being manipulated. 21 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 3: Welcome to Mission Implausible. 22 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's Mission Employed. Back again with us 23 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: is Adam Davidson. 24 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: Hey, guys, what have you been up to? 25 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Adam? 26 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 4: I think you know I'm always up to different projects 27 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 4: and a big project for me these days is working 28 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 4: with Vermont artistical cheesemakers, and I'm trying to turn this 29 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 4: podcast more in that direction. 30 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: And you can tell us about who cut the cheese. 31 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 4: Well, that's actually a good question, because cutting the cheese 32 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 4: is a key decision that any cheesemaker needs to make. 33 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 4: And actually, this is an interesting thing I learned, like 34 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 4: artistical cheese, not like factory made cheese, but like real 35 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 4: fancy cheese. It's very temperamental. Every day is different because 36 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 4: the cows if it was a rainy day or if 37 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 4: it was a particularly hot day though they're in bad 38 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 4: mood or something, or if they're in a bad mood, 39 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 4: the microflora will be different. And so a big thing 40 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 4: you have to do is decide it's cut ability, because 41 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: when you buy cheese in the store that's pre wrapped 42 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 4: to a specific size, the cheese has to have certain 43 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 4: like tight structure. 44 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 5: But then if you go, guys, I'm sorry to break in. 45 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 5: This is your producer, John Stern. I usually don't get 46 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 5: involved in this part in the intro of these episodes, 47 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 5: but I want to remind you it's called the podcast 48 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 5: business there, and the podcast business a key component is 49 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 5: cooking in the audience early on, as opposed to the 50 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 5: exact opposite. 51 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 4: So you're saying, expand beyond chat or get into Alpine 52 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 4: Cheese's wash Strine cheese. 53 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: Is I have an idea because there are various foods, 54 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: but cheese as well that look like certain people. And 55 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 3: so our episode today we're going to be talking about 56 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 3: is Justin Trudeau related to Fidel Castro phenomenal. Today we 57 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: have a special guest, a real podcast legend, John love It. 58 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 3: John's a well known screenwriter, comedian, podcaster, and the founder 59 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: of Crooked Media. You probably know him from pod Save 60 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: America and Love It or Leave It. And John was 61 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: a speechwriter for Hillary Clinton and President Obama, among other things. 62 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: So go ahead to have you here today. 63 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: John, great to be here, Thank you for having me. 64 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 3: So we want to talk about some conspiracies. The one 65 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 3: that you know, we sort of want to tee up 66 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: is the conspira that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is 67 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 3: the son of Cuban dictator Fidel Kestro. 68 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: I just want to start by saying I have two 69 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: points I want to make before I walk you through 70 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: the details. One is that I believe every person, for 71 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: the sake of the suppleness of their own mind, should 72 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: believe in at least one true conspiracy theory. If your 73 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: heart isn't big enough in this confusing, messy, complicated world 74 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 2: to find space for one story that the world says 75 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: is false, but one part of Reddit says is true, 76 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: your heart isn't open enough. The second point I want 77 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: to make is I don't know that this is true. 78 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: My point is not that it is true. My point 79 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: is I want to live in a world where the 80 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: word debunket means something. And my only claim that i 81 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: will defend is not that the story I'm about to 82 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: tell you is true. It is that it is not debunked. 83 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: That's all I want to claim. Okay, so here's the 84 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: conspiracy there. And I first got wind of it when 85 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: they remember there were those Canadian truckers protesting. 86 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and Ottawa, Yeah yeah, the free folk of 87 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 6: the North, that's right, And they were protesting Trudeau and 88 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 6: they claimed that Fidel Castro is the father of Canadian 89 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 6: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. 90 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: This immediately started getting the kind of Snopes treatment. The 91 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: AP round a story that said, no, Fidel Castro is 92 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: not Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau's father. The Time said misinformation 93 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: has been a key weapon wielded by Canada's protest movement, 94 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: and critics of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau have returned to 95 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: one simmering falsehood that mister Trudeau is the love child 96 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: of the former Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Snopes calls it 97 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: false and here's here's why they call it false. The 98 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: Times reported that mister Trudeau's mother, Margaret, famously traveled to 99 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: Cuba and met mister Castro at the beginning of nineteen 100 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: seventy six, but the visit was more than four years 101 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: after mister Trudeau was born on December twenty fifth, nineteen 102 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: in seventy one. Given her high profile, it would have 103 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: been highly unlikely for Missus Trudeau to have slipped into 104 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: Cuba undetected. Castro and Margaret Trudeau would have had to 105 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 2: have conceived their secret love child between March sixteenth and 106 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: April twenty second, nineteen seventy one, and because after their 107 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: brief honeymoon through Trudeau's went to Canada, Snopes go as 108 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: far as to say claims that Fidel Castro and Margaret 109 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: Trudeau had an affair that produced the current Canadian Prime 110 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: minister are impossible on both biological and historical grounds. That 111 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: seems to be definitive, right, Like you kind of look 112 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: at the facts there, right, it's interesting, right, they've met, Right, 113 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: it's kind of like the messy thing that's enough to 114 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 2: make people ask the question. 115 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: And not like being Fidel Castro's love child is. 116 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: A bad thing, right, I mean, no judgments. 117 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: It could be crazier. It could be like the president 118 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: of the United States was born in like another country 119 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: and secretly moved to Hawaii for a burstart. 120 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: To the right. But that's off the top of your head, 121 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: off the top of your head. So this is Snope's 122 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: basically saying. The most plausible explanation remains that Pierre and 123 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: Margaret Trudeau had sex and created a child and that 124 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 2: child became Justin Trudeau. But there is a big problem 125 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: with this theory. And again I am relying on Reddit, 126 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: and what we also know is that Maggie and Pete Trudeau, 127 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: as I call them, they did enjoy having sex, maybe 128 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: with each other, but definitely others, and that's their life 129 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: and they had fun and that was the time and began. 130 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: No judgment, So what is the evidence that runs counter 131 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 2: to this. First, you have to look at a picture 132 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: of Fidel Castro and Justin Trudeau side by side. Just 133 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: look at it, all right, draw your own fucking conclusions. 134 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: Look at a picture of them side by side, and 135 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: just admit that there's a resemblance. But the ap the Times, 136 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: and Snopes do not address this is what I will 137 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: call the second honeymoon theory. This originates on Reddit. But 138 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: the people claiming this is debunk do not address this fact, 139 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: which is that, according to the Ottawao Journal, which ran 140 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: a piece on the thirteenth of April in nineteen seventy 141 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: one headline Trudeau's privacy respective Bridgetown, Barbados, Prime Minister Trudeau 142 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: and his wife left here Monday by chartered plane on 143 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: a quick side trip to an unidentified nearby island. They 144 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: arrived here Thursday on a brief second honeymoon and have 145 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: reportedly been staying at a private residence on the island's 146 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: posh west coast. That trip lines up an unidentified island. 147 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: Perhaps a rendezvous took place, perhaps some swinging occurred. 148 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: You said that the articles you're reading said that it 149 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 3: was biologically debunked. How was it possibly biologically debunk where's 150 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: the like they have blood samples. 151 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: Well, I think what they're saying is if you don't 152 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: account for that second honeymoon, it is not possible. And 153 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: all I'm saying is there's just some more debunking to 154 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: be done. I need that, I. 155 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: Need biological debunking. That's just that's circumstantial time. 156 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, circumstances, timeline debunking. So all that leads me to 157 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: the conclusion, which is not that Justin Trudeau is the 158 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: son of Fidel Castro, merely that there is more debunking 159 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: to be done before we can declare this bunk debunked this. 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: And I've looked into this the Internet, dark conspiracies on 161 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: mostly on Margaret Trudeau. Apparently she met Pierre, her husband, 162 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: in Tahiti, how lovely, when she was barely eighteen and 163 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: he was frigging forty seven. So she's a waif and 164 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: she doesn't know lots of people they marry and this 165 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: is you know, there's three kinds of people in this world, 166 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: those that can do math and those that can't. So 167 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: they were married on four March nineteen seventy one, and 168 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau was born on twenty five December seventy one, 169 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: so that's eight months, two weeks and a couple of days. 170 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: So it is conceivable that he was conceived out of wedlock. 171 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: So Castro or whoever the father would have to be. 172 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: He would have to have either been along on the honeymoon, 173 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: which you've said, or have gotten in just like before 174 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: the honeymoon. You got to basically say that a nineteen 175 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: year old girl who doesn't know anybody is going to 176 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: have to meet the dictator, be swept away by him, 177 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: betted by him. 178 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: Famously charming man, famously charming. 179 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: And he had a lot of paramours. 180 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: I will also say too that part of what I 181 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: think the Canadian Trucker's glombed onto this is that maybe 182 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: that communism is like genetically inherited, which I also don't think. 183 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 2: You know, it's like like not, you know, justin Drudeau 184 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: is not, you know, he's it's he's communism runs in 185 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: his veins. 186 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 3: We got to take a break now and we'll be 187 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 3: back in just a minute. 188 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: Glad to have everybody back. Let's go back down. 189 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: The rabbit hole. But I mean she was running around 190 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 3: with people like the Rolling Stones and Jack Nicholson and 191 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 3: other so even if it's not Fidel Castro, there could 192 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 3: be some other things we could explore here, right, But 193 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: there's a story in one of those articles that said 194 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: the conspiracy started when Castro's oldest son committed suicide and 195 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: left behind a note claiming that Trudeau was his brother. 196 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: I don't know about Justin, but certainly her other kids 197 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: or even conceidedly so the list of paramores goes with 198 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: Mick Jaggers, Nichols, Ted Kennedy, Ronnie Wilson. 199 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: Ted Kennedy, and Ryan O'Neill. 200 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: So I don't know, could she have met any of 201 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: those guys? 202 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, because even the dates of the trip that people 203 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: are coming on could be his younger He's got two 204 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: younger brothers too, so it's possible that the younger brothers 205 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: is that Castro. 206 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: That there is a deeper question and the human psych 207 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: is why DNA is so important in politics. Politics and 208 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: paternity seem to go together in conspiracy theories because Chris 209 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: paternity up until recently could never have been proved. If 210 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: you want to do a side by side, take a 211 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: picture of Prince Harry and put it next to James Hewitt. 212 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: If you're going to fool around with somebody. Don't fool 213 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: around with a redhead. And you put the two of 214 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: them together, the horse whisper, and they did have an affair. 215 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: She had an affair with a redheaded guy, but that's 216 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: never been proven. 217 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: I do think there's a little there is misogyny in it, 218 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 2: to be honest too, about like why people really care 219 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: about this. I think people love speculating about the royals, 220 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: and I think that there's something about line of succession 221 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: that alights in people, you know, Elizabeth the fst running 222 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: around and having no heirs and all that, and like 223 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: kind of the tracing the lineage back. 224 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: At a deeper level. What this kind of means both 225 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: the Obama birth and this is basically what people are 226 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: saying is he's not one of us, He's not in 227 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: our tribe. It's a way to try to sort of 228 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: exclude him and anybody who supports him, and. 229 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: That the elites are all interconnected and have these secrets 230 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: that we don't get to know, that they preach one 231 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: way of living and actually live another way because the 232 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: rules don't apply to them. 233 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: And the people who pick this up. You mentioned that 234 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: the truckers. There's definitely a right wing thing about the 235 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 3: truckers and also other podcast legend Joe Rogan, who have 236 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: never listened to is also one of these people who's 237 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 3: spread this tends to be the right wing people pick 238 00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 3: up on these things to use him as smeartech. 239 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: Like, no one's telling you the truth. There are a 240 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: lot of secrets that actually you have to You can't 241 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: trust what you read, you can't trust what you see. 242 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: There's a deeper, truer story that you can only find 243 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: by going to alternate, unconventional, less reliable sources that like, 244 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: they'll tell you one thing about the vaccine, but actually 245 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: the truth is more complicated, or there's a secret web 246 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 2: of powerful people in the nineteen seventies fucking in the Caribbean. 247 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: So let us take you into our former world as 248 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: agency officers wanting to know about people's their physical makeup, 249 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: their DNA. It wouldn't be beyond the realm of the 250 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: possible for the agency to want to collect. Say if 251 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: I had a way of getting Vladimir Putin's p that 252 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: would be valuable, right, I mean, what medicines is he on? 253 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: And you know who is kids are, and you know 254 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: can you detect these? Right? If John and I back 255 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: in the day, Director Cia says, you to get to 256 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: the bottom of this, we need you know, the President 257 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: wants to know definitively. Then the question would be, how 258 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: do we get a hair sample from Justin Trudeau? And 259 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: we probably could same with Prince Harry. We recruit somebody 260 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: works in a hotel, get one of his hairs, capture his. 261 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: Pee, toilet tap, toilet tap. Oh shit, I never knew 262 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: about that. I never thought about getting the pee. That's 263 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 2: so cool, stealing people's pee and poop. Yeah, oh yeah, 264 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: well of course, and some of these. 265 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 3: Guys they know that it's done, so they probably make 266 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 3: sure that there's false pea and poop push down and right. 267 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: Wow, you got to make sure you don't get counter p. 268 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta get a number of specimens from different 269 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 3: places counter intel P. 270 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: It's this is James Bond stuff. 271 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: Man, it's precisely not James Bond stuff. Like it's exactly not. 272 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 3: But they're collecting other body, you know. 273 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: You know that's fascinating. 274 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: If we could steal Justin Trudeau's comb or we got 275 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: one of his pubes, we could just solve the mystery 276 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: for you. 277 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: When a head of state visits the White House, right, 278 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 2: like does't Drudaux has been to the White House and 279 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: he's probably had a salad. You're basically there. 280 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 3: And then the next time he comes that we could 281 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: say we know your fidels and we're going to hold 282 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 3: that over you for the rest of your time. 283 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: I presume somewhere in the in Langley, in some basement 284 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: vaults there's various Fidel Castro samples. 285 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: Why do you think we want all these guys to 286 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: come to the UN right? All the world leaders? Hum 287 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: turf And he famously came. When he came to New 288 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: York the first time for the UN he went to 289 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: Harlem and stayed in like a slum, just to make 290 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: a statement. This kind of thing in history, it does 291 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: become serious. John's the Russian expert. But in the seventeen 292 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: eighties there was the Pugachov Rebellion in Russia and millions 293 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: of people died and half of Russia was conquered. And 294 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: the whole point of it was this peasant Pugachov claimed 295 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: that he was the Czar Paul the third and Catherine 296 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: the Great was just a German war, and people followed 297 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: h His conspiracy theory was obviously not true, but people 298 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: so didn't want the political leadership they had Catherine the Great, 299 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: a German, they were willing to buy into this conspiracy theory, 300 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: and the country was ripped apart and hundreds of thousands 301 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: died in battle and millions died in famine. That came 302 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: from that, all based off of like who's your daddy? 303 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: So the peasants in Russia, it was clear they were 304 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: desperate for a narrative that said that the current political 305 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: elite was illegitimate and wrong, and they were willing to 306 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: again and their thousands die against this. So let's switch 307 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: forward to today's think there are an unlimited supply of 308 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. But why do some catch Why would the 309 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: Birtherism thing with for Barack Obama? Why would that resonate? 310 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: What does that say about us? 311 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it catches because just like you said, they want 312 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 3: to say he's the other you know, it's ugly politics. 313 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: I mean, John knows this stuff better than any of us. 314 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: Right, We've had Trump kind of with two lies like this, 315 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: Well we've many lies, but two that stand out obviously 316 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: is he put himself on the national stage as a 317 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 2: political figure through the birther conspiracy theory, and now he 318 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: spreads a conspiracy theory, a lie about the election. They both, 319 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: in various ways, play on people's fears of the other, 320 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: of racism, the assumption that Barack Obama can't be from here, 321 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 2: given what he looks like and how he thinks. And 322 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: with the conspiracy theory around the election, Trump ties it 323 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: back to Shenanigan's going on in cities. Right. Oh, you 324 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: got to look at what happened in Philadelphia, you got 325 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 2: to look at what happened in Detroit, you got to 326 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 2: look at what happened in Atlanta, which is his way 327 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: of saying black people are getting one over on us, 328 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 2: us the white Republicans. You know, Trump spread the Birther 329 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: conspiracy theory. You can't really point, i think, to a 330 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 2: way in which that redounded to any kind of like 331 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: political advantage. But I'm sure the polling on how many 332 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: people believe that ebbs and flows it is and I'm 333 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: sure quite dispiriting how many Republicans believed in it. I 334 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: think the big lie has been one he's kind of 335 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: stuck with longer, used more, has gotten more purchase, in 336 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: part because it doesn't just confirm fears about the Americans 337 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: that they don't like. It also confirms a kind of 338 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: pride about like, I know my country, this country wouldn't 339 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: vote for someone like that. The people I know voted 340 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump. Of course, has got to be another 341 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: stool we couldn't have lost. So there's a way in 342 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: which I think the big lie validates people in a 343 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: way that the Birther lie doesn't, which I think is 344 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: why it has a little bit more purchase, because it 345 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 2: affirms not just a negative idea of the other, but 346 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 2: a positive view of themselves. 347 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 3: I think that's even a more generous way to look 348 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: at I do think the birther thing had an impact 349 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: on election in the sense that what Cambridge Analytica did 350 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 3: and what the Russians did in the lead up twenty 351 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 3: sixteen is there was a portion of an American electric 352 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 3: that never ever voted on the right, and I think, 353 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 3: based on the Facebook data that Cambridge Analytica had, there 354 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 3: was an effort to make those people so worked up 355 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 3: and so angry that people who never voted on the 356 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: right came out and voted. And the Birther thing could 357 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 3: play a role in that, is trying to find sort 358 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: of the really really radical people who just have never 359 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 3: played in our political system and get them to be voters. 360 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: I think that's totally right. I don't disagree with that 361 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: at all. I think the birther story is part of 362 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: a story of they're taking your country from you. But 363 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: it was just like a tile and a nightmare mosaic 364 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: that they were making, you know, as opposed to as 365 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: most of the big lie now, which is central right. 366 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 2: It is a central plank of Donald Trump's campaign, which, 367 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: by the way, appeals to a lot of Republicans but 368 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 2: alienates a ton of other normies out there. 369 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: I think the power in the birth Rhythm thing is 370 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: it allowed him to break norms, like I can say 371 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: this and I can still get away with it, whereas 372 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: you couldn't before. And the second thing is if you 373 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: buy into it, sort of like a religion or a cult. 374 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: Once you start buying into it, you're in right. You're 375 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: part of the team now. Like my next door neighbor 376 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: is a Detroit Lions fan. You know, in ten years 377 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: ago he was like, the Lions are the greatest. Knew 378 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: they weren't, but you got to buy into the fib 379 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: to be on the team. And so that's the price 380 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: of admission and increasingly so selling your soul. You've got 381 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: to buy into the absolute bullshit. 382 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: Basically sent a message to millions of Republicans, which is 383 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 2: that I don't give a fuck. I'll say whatever I 384 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: want and they can't stop me. And I think one 385 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: of Trump's great I think ways of sort of like 386 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: feral genius is understanding that signal. Like now, saying you 387 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: believe that Joe Biden is not legitimate is a way 388 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: you prove your bona fides. It's a it's a vicious circle. 389 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: So what kind of conspiracies can we see that are 390 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 3: similar to the Trudeau thing that might be spun out 391 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: In a lead up to the election. 392 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: Trump has trotted out Nicki Haley, right, sort of birthruisms. 393 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's doing the birth thruism a bit on 394 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: Nicki Haley, sort of a racist attack on her. Kamala 395 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: Harris is really pulling the strings? 396 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: Is it? 397 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: Sort of a has a similar sort of geometry to 398 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: it as a story. You know, it's like here's the 399 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: real power, Here's what's who's here's who's really in charge. 400 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: That's why they said brock Obama had studied anti colonialism. 401 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: That was sort of a buzzword for a while, and 402 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: it's like, your leaders aren't who they say they are, 403 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: and they don't believe what they claim to believe. 404 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: Let's take a breather and back in a moment, and 405 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: where back. I think it's time that we addressed the 406 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: eutlephant in the room. Something that yeah that we and 407 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: our audience, you know, we're all thinking it, but I'll 408 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: just say it. Grover Cleveland, Right, Yeah, So Grover Cleveland, 409 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: he was running for president and a woman comes out 410 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: and says, I have a ten year old illegitimate son, 411 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: and the son belongs to Grover Cleveland. And the entire 412 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: country is looking at two pictures of the kid and 413 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: of Grover Cleveland. Could it be his? Or couldn't it? 414 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: And in fact, the whole push of the opposition political party, 415 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: their motto was ma, Ma, Where's my Pa? This was 416 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And Grover Cleveland was able to put 417 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: a stop to this push to delegitimize his candidcy by 418 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: basically saying the kid could be mine. I'm not really sure, 419 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: but I'll claim him. And he won, and then the 420 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: slogan Mama, Where's my Pa? Then became as everybody knows 421 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: gone to the White House? Ha ha ha, like fuck 422 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: you we. 423 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: Won really good? That's it? Hey, that's cool? Is there 424 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: the scoreboard? Chant? 425 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. 426 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: It got weird with Grover Cleveland because he said later 427 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: in his papers that, as everyone knows, he said that 428 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: the kid isn't actually his. It actually belongs to his 429 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: business partner who was older than him. But his business 430 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: partner was married and he was a bachelor, so he said, 431 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: I didn't think it would be said bad if I 432 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: did it, because it would destroy my business partner's marriage. 433 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: And then it turns out that Grover Cleveland, when he 434 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: did get married in the White House, he married his 435 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: business partner's daughter. 436 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 3: Fucking Grover Cleveland. 437 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: Worth remembering too, right? Paternity conspiracies or just a subset 438 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: of centuries, thousands of years of attacks around infidelity which 439 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: are hypocritical and will never end. 440 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 3: So, John, why do you think people would want to 441 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: believe that Justin Trudeau is Fidel castro Son? What is 442 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 3: the what's the impetus behind this? 443 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: First of all, it's just fun. It's like a prime 444 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: minister and they're traveling. It's another era. It's the nineteen seventies. 445 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: There's a dictator from Cuba involved the enemy of the West. 446 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 2: It has a kind of like spy movie vibe, which 447 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 2: I think is just fun. And then I do think 448 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 2: there's a little bit of like the idea that like 449 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: genes can be responsible for overturning Batista. 450 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,479 Speaker 3: Are there any conspiracies, other conspiracies that you sort of 451 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: are interested in it? Because we respect you so much 452 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: for coming on, we will also believe that. 453 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 2: Let me think, what is a conspiracy theory? I actually 454 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: believe here's one. It's not exactly a conspiracy theory, but 455 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 2: I do think it's an unanswered question, which is, do 456 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 2: you remember when former Clinton administration official Sandy Berger was 457 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: caught with documents in his socks. He passed away. We 458 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 2: never found out what was going on, and the explanation 459 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: was something along the lines of, oh, these were drafts 460 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: of documents that were still preserved, that nothing was truly lost, 461 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: something to that effect. But it was deeply strange and 462 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: remains unanswered. I don't know if i'd call it a 463 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, but I don't believe we have the whole truth. 464 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 3: Well, John's great having you on. It's such a such 465 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 3: a pleasure for us, and so. 466 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: So do you know how to tell male chromosomes from 467 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: female chromosomes? 468 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Oh? No, how God, how. 469 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: You pull their genes down? 470 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 2: Ugh? 471 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: I got kids. 472 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: I got kids as a blast. Hey, I had so 473 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 2: much fun. 474 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 3: Adam Davidson, welcome back to the show. 475 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: Great to be with you guys. 476 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: So, Adam, what do you think about that discussion we 477 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: just had about Justin Trudeau Fidel Castro? And if you 478 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 3: can merge us with the discussion of cheese, that'd be great. 479 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: And so you live up by the Canadian border. 480 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 3: You're in Vermont, right, I am in Vermont. 481 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: As I've told you like four hundred times. 482 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: What are you picking up on that particular conspiracy from 483 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: your side of the Canadian border? 484 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 4: Well, I would say that in Vermont that would just 485 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 4: be a positive people. Would you know that that would 486 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 4: be seen as a really good characteristic of any politician. 487 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 4: I'd say if Bernie Sanders, I mean, he already gets 488 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 4: like two thirds of the vote, but if he spread 489 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 4: the rumor that he's also Fidel Castro's son. 490 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 3: And you know how the Canadians sleep around much more 491 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 3: than the people in Vermont do. So this is not 492 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: really a surprise. 493 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 4: As far as I can tell now Vermont is we 494 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 4: We are like the biggest compliment. That's what we say 495 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 4: at a party. Oh you look like Fidel Castro's son. 496 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 4: Oh hi, you look like this this delicious Vermont made 497 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: artisanal cheese's son. You know, we're Bernie Country. We love 498 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 4: our Fidel Castro. We are a weirdly functional state. By 499 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 4: the way, this is just a side note. Two thirds 500 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 4: of the state votes for Bernie Sanders for a Senate 501 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 4: and two thirds of the state vote for our very 502 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 4: moderate Republican governor. And we have a weird thing where 503 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: we have like a sensible bipartisan legislature that actually works 504 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 4: across the aisle to achieve outcome. I will say with 505 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 4: Fidel Castro, just talking about northern states. I did some 506 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 4: reporting when Fidel Castro was still alive on agriculture policy 507 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 4: in the US, and one pocket of enormous support for 508 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 4: Fidel Castro in the US is bean farmers, especially northern 509 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 4: Midwest like the North Dakota's Minnesota. If you meet someone 510 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: who farms soybeans or other beans for human consumption, like 511 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 4: a guy in their eighties or seventies who probably votes 512 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 4: for Trump, probably has never voted for a Democrat. I 513 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 4: would say there's a not unreasonable chance they have met 514 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 4: Fidel Castro, because all along we have had trade delegations 515 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 4: to Cuba for basic food stuffs, and it's been a 516 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 4: part of particularly beans of US export policy. It's like 517 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 4: nobody knows about it, but it's been really funny. I 518 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 4: was sitting in a combine in North Dakota with a 519 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 4: Republican farmer who was telling me about them many many 520 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 4: times he had had dinner with Fidel Castro, and how 521 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 4: fun it was, how he was up until two in 522 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 4: the morning. 523 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: Maybe if our relationship approves, we can send them meat 524 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: and other vegetables. 525 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 4: It's kind of a weird thing where there's a very 526 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 4: small number of people who it's really important for, and 527 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 4: they don't really want the word out, you know, because 528 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 4: they feel like if it gets too loud, it'll all 529 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 4: get shut down. All right, I'm pulling up a photo 530 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 4: of young Fidel Castro next to Justin Trudeau, who, let's 531 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 4: be honest, it always looks young, you guys, see it? 532 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. 533 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: It is striking, is it not? 534 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: It is not. I'm not seeing it on this two 535 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: eyes and nose in a mouth, But I'm not buying it. 536 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 4: You know, as I look more like at the eyes, 537 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 4: at the nose, at the ear, it a little bit 538 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 4: falls apart, but there is a go all, like an 539 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 4: overall just lo. 540 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: I hate agreeing with Jerry, but like, I see the 541 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: same thing. You could almost put any two people together 542 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 3: unless they're crazily different looking, and say, oh yeah, look 543 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 3: you see they look the same. So like if I 544 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 3: saw those two pictures together and didn't know about any 545 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: of this, I wouldn't say to myself, oh my god. 546 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 4: It is not enough to build a conspiracy around. Although 547 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 4: that guy who they say is JFK. Junior, the fact 548 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 4: that he looks literally nothing like JFK. Junior is almost proof. 549 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: What you're discussing here is pari dola, which is the 550 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: seeing faces and inanimate objects like the man in the 551 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: moon or Elvis's face and mold on a on a refrigerator. 552 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: There's an actual word for that. 553 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 4: There's a word for something you would absolutely know at 554 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 4: Perry Dolans. 555 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: Everybody should know that one. But yeah, yeah, if you 556 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: put Justin Trudeau and you put him next to Robert 557 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: Mugabi say, I would say, yeah, okay, probably not. This 558 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: is closer but I'm maybe it's the beard. You've got 559 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: a beard, ad him. 560 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 4: I get David Cross all the time, like I have. 561 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 4: I have people nervously come up to me and be like, 562 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 4: I'm such a fan of your work, and I'm like, 563 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 4: oh my goodness, thank you. And I loved Alvin and 564 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 4: the Chipmunks. 565 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm just not clear on whether Cubans believe the conspiracy 566 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: theory that Fidel Castro is Justin Trudeau's father. 567 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 3: That's an interesting point. 568 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: Well, didn't Trump say that Ted Cruz's father was involved 569 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: with Oswald and Cuba and trying to assassinate Kennedy. 570 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 4: I have some bad news for you, Jerry, because I 571 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 4: obviously believe that myself as well. But it turns out 572 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 4: in the Trump hush money case, David Pecker revealed that 573 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 4: that was actually made up, that they locked that up. 574 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: Something was made up in the National Inquiry. 575 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, God, and Ted Cruz has got to be livid, livid. 576 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: Oh livid. 577 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 4: He's so livid that he only triple extra endoors Trump 578 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 4: for president. 579 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: What was made up that Ted Cruz has a father, 580 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: that Ted Cruz is a human being? 581 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good point. 582 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: I want to thank John and Adam for this episode 583 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: in our special sponsor the Cuban Government. 584 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 3: I thought it was going to be a cheesemaker mission. 585 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 5: Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, John Cipher, 586 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 5: and Jonathan Sterner. 587 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: The associate producer is Rachel Harner. 588 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: This has been a 589 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 5: Production of Abominable Pictures, an honorable mention for iHeart Podcasts.