Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week Inside, from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business
Speaker 2: Week Ahead. On the program, we'll take you inside the
Speaker 2: human brain as Elon Musk's Neuralink gets FDA clearance to
Speaker 2: start implanting computer chips in people's skulls. All the company
Speaker 2: needs now is some volunteers.
Speaker 3: What could go wrong?
Speaker 2: We'll also discuss another long term muskole, human life on Mars.
Speaker 2: A new book lays out the potential pros and cons
Speaker 2: there are quite a few of them of colonizing space. Plus,
Speaker 2: we're going to get a pulse check on geopolitics with
Speaker 2: Brookings Institution senior fellow Angela Stent, as Russia and Ukraine
Speaker 2: approach a grim milestone with much of the world now
Speaker 2: focused on Israel's war against Tomas. Of that to come,
Speaker 2: we begin with one of the US economy's most important components. We're,
Speaker 2: of course talking about the housing market. This week we
Speaker 2: saw the average thirty year mortgage rate fall by the
Speaker 2: most in more than a year, at a seven point
Speaker 2: six one percent. That helped spark the biggest advance in
Speaker 2: home purchase applications since early June. Still, affordable housing is
Speaker 2: hard to come by, and that's largely due to a
Speaker 2: phenomenon called the lock in effect. It's the subject of
Speaker 2: a recent Bloomberg BusinessWeek cover story, and for more we
Speaker 2: go to the Bloomberg News real estate reporting team of
Speaker 2: Pashant Gopol and Patrick Clark, along with the editor of
Speaker 2: the magazine, Joel Weber.
Speaker 4: Look, Ultimately, if you want to feel like there's an
Speaker 4: existential crisis in the US, I think the housing industry,
Speaker 4: housing market is maybe a pretty good one good place
Speaker 4: to look right now. If you have one of those
Speaker 4: low rate mortgages.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people do that.
Speaker 4: A lot of people got fortunate enough to get in
Speaker 4: when the market allowed that. You don't want to give
Speaker 4: it up, so there's very little incentive to sell an
Speaker 4: then have to take out a high mortgage. Now, that
Speaker 4: also means that for those people who never had a
Speaker 4: chance to get in, you're not able to get in
Speaker 4: because nobody's selling. There's very low inventory and if you
Speaker 4: could get in, you have to pay that eight percent
Speaker 4: mortgage that is potentially, you know, dramatically higher than what
Speaker 4: the housing market even looked like two years ago. And boy,
Speaker 4: that is just a rotten.
Speaker 1: Place to be.
Speaker 4: And especially for people who are starting out, it really
Speaker 4: feels like you're just iced out. And that has I
Speaker 4: think some long term economic implications for the US. And
Speaker 4: there I think we're done talking about the story because
Speaker 4: that's basically how rotten this is.
Speaker 1: But there's a whole lot more there.
Speaker 4: And Prashant and Pat Clark did a great job of
Speaker 4: not only setting that table and and this is to
Speaker 4: me one of these stories that when I first started
Speaker 4: engaging with them about it, it feels like one of
Speaker 4: the most important stories of the year. We've talked about
Speaker 4: what's happened in the commercial real estate world. This is
Speaker 4: equally scary because it affects people so directly. I think, So, Prishan,
Speaker 4: you've got to speak to some people, tell us about
Speaker 4: what you and Pat learned along the way.
Speaker 5: Well, really, this is like two different worlds, right, So
Speaker 5: people who own houses are really the haves here, and
Speaker 5: in some ways they're sitting pretty because they locked in
Speaker 5: some of the lowest rates in history, and they're unaffected
Speaker 5: for the most part by the rising mortgage rates because
Speaker 5: you know, most people have fixed rate mortgages for you know,
Speaker 5: thirty years, so they might be in those homes for
Speaker 5: a long time because they have very little incentives to
Speaker 5: sell and take on sort of a much higher rate.
Speaker 5: On the other hand, people who haven't gotten a chance
Speaker 5: to buy yet, maybe they were, you know, they couldn't
Speaker 5: buy during the peak of the COVID buying frenzy because
Speaker 5: they lost out in bidding wars. But now they can't
Speaker 5: buy because they can't afford to. You combine these very
Speaker 5: high prices and these extraordinarily high rates, and you know,
Speaker 5: they're just locked out.
Speaker 6: You remind us of an economist back in the nineteen
Speaker 6: eighties who actually identified this so called lock in effect.
Speaker 6: Take us back there, because we've kind of been in
Speaker 6: these this position before.
Speaker 7: It was very much like what we're seeing now, which
Speaker 7: is that interest rates shot up quickly, and people who
Speaker 7: you know, I think between nineteen seventy eight nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 7: interest rates doubled. They were much higher in those days.
Speaker 7: I think they shut up all the way. I think
Speaker 7: to eighteen percent or so. But interest rates went up
Speaker 7: very quickly, and it became clear that the old mortgage
Speaker 7: had a value attached to it. Right, It wasn't just
Speaker 7: the bill you I had to pay every month, but it
Speaker 7: was worth you know, thousands of dollars and because if
Speaker 7: you were to trade it into a new mortgage, that's
Speaker 7: how much more you would pay over the life of alone.
Speaker 7: And you know, at the time, there was a an
Speaker 7: economist at the University of California who who you know,
Speaker 7: who sort of showed that this was correlated or or
Speaker 7: he associated this with a strong disincentive to move, which
Speaker 7: is logical. You know. You fast forward now to today
Speaker 7: and there there are two researchers, one at University of
Speaker 7: Illinois and one at the University of Pennsylvania. Actually, you know,
Speaker 7: have a you know, a way to do a sort
Speaker 7: of back of the envelope calculation to show that there's
Speaker 7: a real causal effect between this, you know, luck and
Speaker 7: effect and reduced residential mobility. People are going to move less,
Speaker 7: and in fact, people have been moving less in America.
Speaker 7: You know for a part while moving.
Speaker 6: We were finally moving again right with the pandemic, because
Speaker 6: you could work Jil anywhere, like finally people were starting
Speaker 6: to move around again a little bit.
Speaker 4: And boy did that end with the pandemic, right and
Speaker 4: and now suddenly maybe you did move somewhere, and now,
Speaker 4: you know, even being able to offload that thing that
Speaker 4: you got yourself into, maybe you won't be so lucky now. Now,
Speaker 4: most important question amount I asked today Pat Pashant, which
Speaker 4: have you got to speak to Eugene Quackenbush? I always okay,
Speaker 4: So tell us about also can we say the name
Speaker 4: of Eugene Quackenbush. Quackenbush, get gets your exactly what he's doing?
Speaker 2: Phoenix broke like.
Speaker 4: Than I know Pat has a deep understanding of Phoenix.
Speaker 4: But tell us about what what mister Quackenbush really his name?
Speaker 7: Okay, but but but he's a you know, he's a
Speaker 7: pretty savvy real estate guy in uh in Phoenix who
Speaker 7: has a real estate company called Get Your Nest That
Speaker 7: will that that that that acts as a brokerage and
Speaker 7: the types of you know, effectively, he has to get
Speaker 7: creative for his clients. And the simplest thing is you
Speaker 7: go and look for a new home, right because the
Speaker 7: homebuilders are often buying down interest rates and we can
Speaker 7: tell you more about that. I can tell you more
Speaker 7: about that. But he's doing things as well, like, well,
Speaker 7: can we go out and find people who have assumable mortgages,
Speaker 7: which is usually an f h A or a VA
Speaker 7: loan that someone else can take on. So you know,
Speaker 7: it was a there's a three percent mortgage, and you
Speaker 7: sell the mortgage along with the house package today, right there,
Speaker 7: package deal not just it's.
Speaker 2: Not just not the garden, you know, mortgage.
Speaker 4: I mean it sounds like a great deal, you.
Speaker 7: Know, and it's probably better than the alternatives, because the
Speaker 7: alternatives are you either look for something smaller or what
Speaker 7: you find is a house that's not in great condition
Speaker 7: and so not only is it expensive, it's going to
Speaker 7: need more work. Or another thing that Eugene told me
Speaker 7: he was doing with clients or you know, clients were considering,
Speaker 7: is you know, you just drive farther. It's no longer
Speaker 7: you know, the close in suburb that you pictured yourself
Speaker 7: in in twenty twenty one when all your friends were
Speaker 7: rushing to buy homes. You are now you know, you're
Speaker 7: now in the next or the one after, and you're
Speaker 7: having to drive farther every day.
Speaker 4: So Pershan, let's talk about the home builder dynamic, because
Speaker 4: the other thing here is that there just hasn't been
Speaker 4: that much inventory, right. But like, so we're the home
Speaker 4: builders in all of this.
Speaker 5: Right, So the home builders in some ways are in
Speaker 5: much better shape because they produce inventory. So you've had
Speaker 5: the existing market just completely lock up, and that's left
Speaker 5: a little bit of an opening, especially for the larger
Speaker 5: builders that have their own mortgage arms, so they're able
Speaker 5: to kind of offer subsidized mortgage rates, which are really
Speaker 5: enticing buyers to buy new so they there can more
Speaker 5: aggressively cut prices and you know, offer you know, a
Speaker 5: five percent mortgage or something like that, at least first
Speaker 5: a period of time. It can you know, it might
Speaker 5: increase later, but for the first few years five percent,
Speaker 5: and that's that's actually working for them, so they're able
Speaker 5: to sort of increase production and get more buyers in.
Speaker 1: Okay, so.
Speaker 4: Young people can't get in, people with low rate mortgages
Speaker 4: don't want to sell. What's the way out of this impossible?
Speaker 5: Miss, Well, we had we had like we spoke with uh,
Speaker 5: you know, Ralph McLaughlin. He's a he's an economist. So
Speaker 5: there's been some efforts to sort of attack. This from
Speaker 5: UH from the perspective of demand, trying to get make
Speaker 5: it easier for people to purchase, right, so lowering fees
Speaker 5: for mortgage it is things like that down payment assistance.
Speaker 5: But all that does is sort of adds to the competition, right,
Speaker 5: which is the problem. We So his idea is, let's
Speaker 5: try to get convinced sellers to sell. So he's suggesting
Speaker 5: that you could do things like a window of time
Speaker 5: where you know, capital gains where maybe investors wouldn't have
Speaker 5: to pay that, or you increase taxes on rental landlords.
Speaker 5: Either way, the idea would be to get some of
Speaker 5: these airbnb landlords and other landlords to sell to first
Speaker 5: time buyers.
Speaker 2: Our thanks to Preshan Gopaul and Patrick Clark with Bloomberg News.
Speaker 2: That full interview is available on our podcast feed, and
Speaker 2: their story is of course available online at Bloomberg dot
Speaker 2: com as well as on the Bloomberg terminal. Jill Weber
Speaker 2: is going to be back with us next hour coming up.
Speaker 2: As the Israel Hamas war intensifies, another violent conflict is
Speaker 2: dragging on in Europe.
Speaker 8: The war seems to be at this moment in a
Speaker 8: dynamic stalemate.
Speaker 2: How Vladimir Putin could use the world's focus on Gaza
Speaker 2: to his advantage against Ukraine. You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live
Speaker 1: weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
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Speaker 6: From Wall Street to the World Bank. One risk towers
Speaker 6: above all, and that is geopolitical. We know Israel has
Speaker 6: talked about its troops entering the middle of Gaza's main
Speaker 6: city as they continue they're offensive against Tomas. EU commissioned
Speaker 6: President Ursula Vanderlin weighing in saying Israel will have to
Speaker 6: leave Gaza eventually. And then, of course, Tim, there's the
Speaker 6: war between Russia and Ukraine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well into its second year, almost its third year.
Speaker 2: Ukraine President Zelenski welcoming and decision by the European Unions
Speaker 2: executive arm Tobacco start to membership talks with Kiev, pledging
Speaker 2: to continue work to develop state institutions. A lot for
Speaker 2: the world to manage. And we've got a great.
Speaker 6: Guest, Carol Angela Stemp back with US, senior fellow at
Speaker 6: Brookings Institution, author of Putin's World, former National intelligence officer
Speaker 6: for Russia and Eurasia. She worked at the US State Department.
Speaker 6: Back with Us on Zoom from Washington, ANGELA, thank you,
Speaker 6: thank you, thank you. Is the world making what feels
Speaker 6: like a mistake, and to some extent it feels like
Speaker 6: they're forgetting about the Russian war in Ukraine.
Speaker 8: Well, certainly the conflict in the Middle East has diverted
Speaker 8: attention from the war in Ukraine, but that war goes on.
Speaker 8: Russia destroyed a I guess it was a Liberian flagged
Speaker 8: ship in the port of an Odessa, killing the pilot.
Speaker 8: It's been attacking the Ukrainian infrastructure. The Ukrainians are fighting
Speaker 8: valiantly back. But the war seems to be at this
Speaker 8: moment in a dynamic stalemate. And the Ukrainians, you know,
Speaker 8: continue to need assistance from the West, particularly from the
Speaker 8: United States, And of course that's up for question at
Speaker 8: the moment.
Speaker 2: It is up for question, But so far the United
Speaker 2: States has pledged and given quite a bit of aid
Speaker 2: to the Ukrainians. Are you concerned? I mean, I guess
Speaker 2: if you were a decision maker in Washington, would you
Speaker 2: how much would you like? What would you need to
Speaker 2: see in order for you to say, Okay, that's enough
Speaker 2: aid for Ukraine?
Speaker 8: Well, I think we have to continue supporting them. If
Speaker 8: we don't send them more assistance and more weapons, it's
Speaker 8: going to be much harder for them to push back
Speaker 8: against the Russians. I think they'll be probably somewhat of
Speaker 8: a lot in the fighting in the winter, even though
Speaker 8: some of these attacks will go on, But we know
Speaker 8: that in the spring the fighting will start up again,
Speaker 8: and we need to equip the Ukrainians so that they
Speaker 8: can continue to try and push back the reference.
Speaker 2: But if it's a stalemate, then what's the motivation for
Speaker 2: And forgive me, because we're talking about you know, we
Speaker 2: have to remember this is people, this is people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: But a lot of that gets lost. I think in
Speaker 2: the conversation when members of Congress are talking about budgets
Speaker 2: and there there's a lot of tension with providing aid
Speaker 2: to Ukraine, and there has been for more than two
Speaker 2: years at this point, How do lawmakers justify continuing to
Speaker 2: send aid if it's just a continued domate.
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, it's in our national interest not
Speaker 8: to have Russia win this war. If Russia succeeds in
Speaker 8: subduing Ukraine, that's not where Russia is going to stop.
Speaker 8: It'll probably set its sites for the West, including possibly
Speaker 8: if you read some of the things that were published
Speaker 8: today written by the former president Medveative, it sites on Poland,
Speaker 8: and the US doesn't want. You know, we don't have
Speaker 8: any boots on the ground there. Our men and women
Speaker 8: aren't dying for this, but it's in our interest to
Speaker 8: make sure that we don't get sucked into another even
Speaker 8: bigger war in Europe if we don't support Ukraine, you know,
Speaker 8: as it fights back.
Speaker 6: Well, this is where you know, we so wanted to
Speaker 6: have you back because it was understandably you understand why
Speaker 6: in the past month we have shifted our focus. It
Speaker 6: feels like as a world, you know, how much stress
Speaker 6: can we geopolitically focus on. Both situations are dire and important,
Speaker 6: but we have shifted to what's going on between Israel
Speaker 6: and Hamas at this point. But I wanted you to
Speaker 6: come back on for us to understand Vladimir Putin and
Speaker 6: what his goals are here with what he is trying
Speaker 6: to do. It doesn't necessarily stop with Ukraine.
Speaker 8: Correct, that's correct. I mean he's first of all, believes
Speaker 8: that he can wait this out. The war will go
Speaker 8: on in twenty twenty four. Russia has more men that
Speaker 8: it can send as cannon fodder than Ukraine does. It
Speaker 8: has a three times of population, and they're getting you know,
Speaker 8: ammunition now from North Korea. We know that they're getting
Speaker 8: drones from Iran. So he wants to wait this out
Speaker 8: and hope that someone enters the White House in twenty
Speaker 8: twenty five who will say enough, we don't want to
Speaker 8: support Ukraine anymore, or that there'll be Ukraine fatigue maybe
Speaker 8: in some European countries. So he's waiting for Western resolve
Speaker 8: to collapse, which it remarkably hasn't yet. But his again,
Speaker 8: his goals don't stop at Ukraine. There might be a pause,
Speaker 8: he wouldn't, you know, Russia wouldn't immediately then turn its
Speaker 8: sights on another country. But in the longer run, as
Speaker 8: long as he's in power, and he's running for reelection
Speaker 8: next year, and he will surely get reelected. As long
Speaker 8: as he's in power, those aims I think aren't going
Speaker 8: to change.
Speaker 6: So he has enough man, does he have enough money?
Speaker 6: I mean, can he break his country, Vladimir Putin in
Speaker 6: his fight his conquest of Ukraine.
Speaker 8: He has enough money. I mean, the Russians are still
Speaker 8: making money on selling oil and gas. You know, despite
Speaker 8: all of the sanctions and everything, they are making money
Speaker 8: from the hydrocarbon sales. Their economy is set to grow,
Speaker 8: predicted to grow in fact, I think by about two
Speaker 8: percent next year. They've recovered a bit and the economy
Speaker 8: is doing better than it was before, so they can
Speaker 8: continue this fight.
Speaker 2: That's that's what's so surprising to me. I mean, we
Speaker 2: spoke to you Angela early on in the and we've
Speaker 2: been speak to you three out the conflict, but the
Speaker 2: general consensus was this was going to be quick, and
Speaker 2: it's been anything but quick. How do you think this
Speaker 2: war ends as we approach the third year?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 8: Well, it's you know, this is the sixty four thousand
Speaker 8: dollars question that everyone is asking. I mean, at some
Speaker 8: point it might be that both sides recognize that neither
Speaker 8: of them are going to achieve their full aims, and
Speaker 8: that they do sit down and negotiate. That's still what
Speaker 8: we want to avoid is another frozen conflict, which is
Speaker 8: to have some kind of agreement, but which is really
Speaker 8: only temporary, and an agreement that would involve Ukraine unless
Speaker 8: it makes more progress territorial it would territorially, it would
Speaker 8: lose some more territory. That might end the fighting. You
Speaker 8: could have a ceasefire, you could end the fighting, but
Speaker 8: that's not a longer term solution to this, you know,
Speaker 8: the you know, the desired solution would be obviously for
Speaker 8: Russia to withdraw its troops and to renounce the you know,
Speaker 8: territorial claims on these areas that it claims to have
Speaker 8: annexed but which it doesn't fully control. But that may
Speaker 8: take much longer. So it probably would be you know,
Speaker 8: in the short run at least some kind of a
Speaker 8: ceasefire and a temporary solution to this. A longer term
Speaker 8: solution is much harder to envisage.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you do wonder if even in some kind of resolution, ceasefire,
Speaker 6: any territory win on the behalf of Russian President Vladimir
Speaker 6: Putin is just going to incite him to continue.
Speaker 9: On his quest.
Speaker 2: That was Angelas stant senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.
Speaker 2: Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, Carol and I head
Speaker 2: to New Orleans for the inaugural Wells Fargo Black Business
Speaker 2: Leader Summit, where the lender is looking to make good
Speaker 2: on its promise to underserved Americans after striking a partnership
Speaker 2: with an influential black community leader.
Speaker 10: So we can't take it all on right but peace
Speaker 10: about peace. We can't begin to make the kind of
Speaker 10: statistical differences, measurable metrics on differences with KPIs that we
Speaker 10: both agree on as to how we can further move.
Speaker 10: Close the digital divide, close the divide with housing and
Speaker 10: home ownership, close the divide with economic literacy.
Speaker 2: Bishop Tdjakes, chairman of the Tdjkes Group, on his organization's
Speaker 2: packed with Wells Fargo and how it could help drive
Speaker 2: economic vitality and inclusivity in communities across the country. This
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,
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Speaker 1: just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 6: Has announced a ten year strategic partnership to build inclusive
Speaker 6: communities This follows reporting and analysis by Bloomberg and others,
Speaker 6: and we're just laying out the landscape on Wells Fargo
Speaker 6: having a really bad record when it comes among major
Speaker 6: lenders when it comes to refinancing by black homeowners, which
Speaker 6: is why we are very interested in how these two
Speaker 6: got together and what their goals are all about. Here
Speaker 6: with more is Christy Fercho. She's head of Diverse Segments,
Speaker 6: Representation and Inclusion at Wells Fargo and TD Jakes. He's
Speaker 6: chairman of the TD Jakes Group here in New Orleans.
Speaker 6: And welcome, Welcome, so good to have the two of
Speaker 6: you here with us. Tell us, first of all, Christy,
Speaker 6: about this summit, and I'm curious I want to get
Speaker 6: from both of you. I always feel like when something
Speaker 6: like this is created, there were some really meaningful conversations
Speaker 6: ahead of it, So tell us from your perspective about
Speaker 6: some of the tough conversations that had to be had.
Speaker 11: It's over a year in the making. We have been
Speaker 11: having conversations about getting black leaders together to really continue
Speaker 11: to focus on what needs to happen in these black communities,
Speaker 11: in black and brown communities, to really advance what we're
Speaker 11: doing around racial equity and really advancing home ownership, small
Speaker 11: business entrepreneurship. And so this summit really represents the possibility
Speaker 11: of what we can do together when you put collective
Speaker 11: minds in the space together and say what can we
Speaker 11: do together? How can we help advance what's important to
Speaker 11: these communities.
Speaker 6: Chairman Jakes, come on in on this conversation, because we
Speaker 6: certainly talked with you a lot throughout the pandemic after
Speaker 6: the murder of George Floyd, and we talked about just
Speaker 6: the injustices that were out there in society and how
Speaker 6: it was long overdue for initiatives to happen, and the
Speaker 6: conversations it couldn't be just talk anymore. What were some
Speaker 6: of the conversations that you guys had that you had
Speaker 6: with Wells far Go about all right, if we're going
Speaker 6: to do this partnership, this is what it's got to
Speaker 6: really be about, and the actions that needed to be taken.
Speaker 10: It's a real pleasure to have the opportunity to explore
Speaker 10: a multi pronged solution with companies like Wells Fargo that
Speaker 10: they would understand their fiduciary responsibility to extend themselves to
Speaker 10: the community that they live in and not just the
Speaker 10: customer themselves, because they're inextricably connected. And the more you
Speaker 10: understand that the well meaning of the client has a
Speaker 10: lot to do with the well meaning of your own business,
Speaker 10: these types of conversations emerge organically, so not only with
Speaker 10: this company, but with several companies. People are starting to
Speaker 10: rethink their responsibility, their stewardship to the community. And then,
Speaker 10: because companies have the evaluation of ESG and social impact
Speaker 10: and they don't spend their day to day making a
Speaker 10: living doing social impact, partnerships like ours they merge to
Speaker 10: help them facilitate that social impact while they continue to
Speaker 10: do the business that's necessary. And the community benefits because
Speaker 10: they are exposed to capital relationships that are necessary to
Speaker 10: move the community forward.
Speaker 11: And that's actually keep point he just made, which is
Speaker 11: this reach into the community. Historically, these communities don't have
Speaker 11: trust of large banks or financial institutions, and so by
Speaker 11: partnering with partners like Tdjakes, we get reach in the
Speaker 11: community where they've got trust, they've got the relationships.
Speaker 6: And then I know the community and they know that
Speaker 6: we were talking about. As we walked around, like you
Speaker 6: really you can see some of the issues that need
Speaker 6: to be dealt with and helped if you.
Speaker 11: Will, absolutely, And that's why these partnerships are critical because
Speaker 11: we can go into those communities, we can understand on
Speaker 11: the ground what are the issues, and then how do
Speaker 11: we bring real solutions.
Speaker 2: So what are some of the issues?
Speaker 10: I think one of the important things for our our
Speaker 10: association and our partnership. There are many, many issues of
Speaker 10: One of the things about our partnership that's very interesting.
Speaker 10: We're not on the retail end of the business as
Speaker 10: it relates to pushing mortgages to people on the street.
Speaker 10: We're on the back yard community development so that people
Speaker 10: will have an opportunity to choose the vehicle of their choice.
Speaker 10: That's the first thing that's important to understand. We determine
Speaker 10: that housing not only for underserved communities, but every major
Speaker 10: city in the country is facing serious problems with workforce housing.
Speaker 10: Mixed income housing creates a sociological atmosphere. Their education is
Speaker 10: an issue. Technology is an issue. So we can't take
Speaker 10: it all on, but peace by piece we can begin
Speaker 10: to make the kind of statistical differences with KPIs that
Speaker 10: we both agree on as to how we can further
Speaker 10: move close the digital divide, close the divide with economic literacy.
Speaker 6: This is I think my third time to New Orleans
Speaker 6: was here after the financial crisis, and it was all
Speaker 6: about how do we bring back the US economy here
Speaker 6: after Katrina and still seeing the devastation. Talk to us
Speaker 6: about what's going on in the New Orleans community that
Speaker 6: maybe the rest of the country isn't so aware of.
Speaker 6: Everybody goes about their day to day what's in front
Speaker 6: of them, but there are some cities that are definitely
Speaker 6: struggling and could use certainly an assist I can only.
Speaker 10: Go about what I've read about New Orleans. I don't
Speaker 10: live here, but I have read some very interesting things.
Speaker 10: Either are not street people in the street. These are
Speaker 10: working people who can no longer afford to live in
Speaker 10: their house, that are literally raising their children on the
Speaker 10: sidewalk for the first time. So we have a tendency
Speaker 10: to drive by homeless people and think that they're monolithic.
Speaker 10: But a lot of people that are entering into this
Speaker 10: phase are coming in as immigrants from the outside of
Speaker 10: the homeless system for the very first time, and the
Speaker 10: trauma associated with the dist devastation. Here's the other thing.
Speaker 10: They're working people, right, They're working people who can no
Speaker 10: longer afford the escalating rents that are perpetuating themselves all
Speaker 10: over the United States and quite honestly globally.
Speaker 6: Well, let's go down that because I feel like Christy,
Speaker 6: we've been talking about the unaffordable aspect of housing for
Speaker 6: a long time, long time. I've been doing this a
Speaker 6: long time, and it's been this chronics and it feels
Speaker 6: like it's just getting worse, and it's getting worse. So
Speaker 6: how do you guys in this partnership go about fixing
Speaker 6: some of that.
Speaker 11: Well, there's a couple of things that we're really focused
Speaker 11: on at Wells Fargo. I mean, one of the things
Speaker 11: that we did is the Worth Initiative Right Wealth Ownership
Speaker 11: through home Ownership and really focused on eight cities. We
Speaker 11: partnered with the nonprofits and we said, we'll give you
Speaker 11: a grant, help us solve this problem in your cities.
Speaker 11: And we awarded in eight cities seven point five million
Speaker 11: dollars with the idea that we would be sixty million
Speaker 11: over the life of this grant and we would create
Speaker 11: forty thousand new homeowners with real solutions on the ground
Speaker 11: in these communities. So that's one way to start, is
Speaker 11: partnering with people on the ground that understand the issue
Speaker 11: in their community and really try to drive that forward.
Speaker 11: It's about supply, which is a significant issue. Right, you
Speaker 11: can't build more dirt. The dirt is the dirt, and
Speaker 11: so what are the solutions to be able to get
Speaker 11: people in? And so it's about affordable supply. It's about
Speaker 11: looking for real solutions that are going to continue to
Speaker 11: get people in. And so we've got a commercial real
Speaker 11: estate deficit, especially with office in the community kind of
Speaker 11: post COVID. How do you retrofit some of that for
Speaker 11: affordable housing and really partner with the government to be
Speaker 11: able to get some of those office buildings retrofits. So
Speaker 11: that becomes easier said than done. As we know, I mean,
Speaker 11: we've talked about this challenges, but it's start to be
Speaker 11: about solutions. So you've got to start with the conversation
Speaker 11: to see if you can really make some time.
Speaker 2: We're talking to significant investment from Wells Fargo. Potentially over
Speaker 2: the next ten years. The partnership could result up to
Speaker 2: a billion dollars in capital and financing from Wells Fargo.
Speaker 2: That's real money, that's real money. How do you measure success?
Speaker 2: Give us some metrics here to make sure that you know,
Speaker 2: our audience knows what's successful and also the investment community
Speaker 2: knows what's successful.
Speaker 11: Well, those are the KPIs that Chairman Jake's talked about.
Speaker 11: I mean, it's really about how many homeowners are we
Speaker 11: actually creating. On the development side, it's as looking at
Speaker 11: mixed use. Are we bringing developers to the table to
Speaker 11: help in the development of these communities. It's about inclusive
Speaker 11: communities and really looking at the number of people that
Speaker 11: we're serving in that. And so you will as we
Speaker 11: continue to develop the project, we'll look to what some
Speaker 11: of those key KPIs will be. But that's the conversation
Speaker 11: we continue to have, which is these have to have
Speaker 11: real metrics that we can point to in terms of
Speaker 11: the lives that we change through this project.
Speaker 2: Our thanks to Christy Ferchow of Wells Fargo and TDJ
Speaker 2: Chairman of the Tdjkes Group. They joined us in New
Speaker 2: Orleans this past week at the first ever Wells Fargo
Speaker 2: Black Business Leader Summit. You can catch the full conversation
Speaker 2: on our podcast feed. We're gonna have more from our
Speaker 2: trip to the Big Easy next hour. You're listening to
Speaker 2: Bloomberg BusinessWeek up next. As one group tries to claim
Speaker 2: its rightful seat at the table of America's financial system,
Speaker 2: another says it's time to flip the table. Over why
Speaker 2: young Americans are increasingly down on capitalism and what one
Speaker 2: millennial journalist thinks is a better alternative. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 3: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Well, as I was praying for our next guest, Carol,
Speaker 2: I found some fascinating data from the Pew Research Center.
Speaker 2: Get this, only forty percent of Americans who are ages
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty nine if you capitalism positively. This is
Speaker 2: from a twenty twenty two PEU survey in August of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. So that forty percent is a low
Speaker 2: when it comes to age groups, and it's more than
Speaker 2: thirty percentage points lower than those who are sixty five
Speaker 2: and older.
Speaker 9: It doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 2: It doesn't surprise you have a favorable view.
Speaker 6: You give conversations with younger individuals and they're like capitalism
Speaker 6: not good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: And sometimes they outgrow it and sometimes they don't.
Speaker 6: Well, you laid out some statistics, right, and the demographic
Speaker 6: differences don't stop there. There are differences among white, Black,
Speaker 6: Hispanic and Asian Americans with respect to how they feel
Speaker 6: about capitalism. So I'm guessing our next guest is going
Speaker 6: to have some thoughts about this.
Speaker 2: Malika Jibali is the author of a new book, It's
Speaker 2: Not You, It's Capitalism, Why It's Time to break Up
Speaker 2: and How We Move On. She's also senior News and
Speaker 2: Politics that are at Essence Magazine. She joins us on
Speaker 2: Zoom from Atlanta. Milika, how are you, hi, am?
Speaker 9: Well, how are you?
Speaker 2: We're doing well? Thanks, congratulations on the new book. It's
Speaker 2: this is not just you know, we say book, but
Speaker 2: it's like not just like any other book. I mean,
Speaker 2: this has got some great illustrations in it. It's got
Speaker 2: some really cool charts, it's got some break in there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 6: It's very very suggestible too.
Speaker 2: It is totally lay it out. But I want to
Speaker 2: know about capitalism. What drew you to our questioning capitalism?
Speaker 9: Well, you guys kind of hinted at it. It was
Speaker 9: a lot of things.
Speaker 12: I had a foundation in these organizations and movements in
Speaker 12: the South of all places where black people were questioning it.
Speaker 12: If you look at where our economy really was founded
Speaker 12: upon in the South and really the entire country, it
Speaker 12: was based on the black labor. It was based on
Speaker 12: free black labor. And that is how we have capitalism today.
Speaker 12: And so you have these groups in the South who
Speaker 12: were looking at our role in this entire system, and
Speaker 12: we just haven't seen any system.
Speaker 9: We haven't seen.
Speaker 12: It thrive without that kind of exploitation, even if you look,
Speaker 12: you know, beyond the slave trade, if you look beyond
Speaker 12: plantation slavery. So that was sort of underpinning, I think,
Speaker 12: just my being open to be critical of the system.
Speaker 12: But I'm a millennial, like I lived in New York City.
Speaker 12: I was studying securities, regulation of all things at Columbia
Speaker 12: Law School. I was studying primarily at the school social
Speaker 12: Work at Columbia, but literally the class was about looking
Speaker 12: at the financial crisis, where we got diverted from the
Speaker 12: core syllabus because Wall Street was falling apart. So we
Speaker 12: were reading newspaper article after newspaper article. It really became
Speaker 12: more like a doomed scrolling you know, newspaper session.
Speaker 9: But it wasn't scrolling at the time.
Speaker 12: We're flipping through the pages about all these financial industries
Speaker 12: that were just going underwater. And even then it was
Speaker 12: based on targeting, you know, low income families. So I
Speaker 12: think I started to make the connections between what we
Speaker 12: were experiencing on like a day to day and the
Speaker 12: regulations and the policy and the legal infrastructure behind it.
Speaker 6: So all capitalism in your review bad.
Speaker 12: Fundamentally, it's bad, and I think we all have to
Speaker 12: unpack what we mean by capitalism. You know, there are
Speaker 12: small business owners we would consider that, you know, the
Speaker 12: petty bourgeoiside is owning a small business and make you bad.
Speaker 12: I don't think inherently. I think what the critique is
Speaker 12: really about is that you have a system that incentivizes
Speaker 12: exploiting the labor as much as possible. It incentivizes getting
Speaker 12: as much profit as you can offer people as possible.
Speaker 12: So not every person who owns a business is going
Speaker 12: to do that, but the system does incentivize that.
Speaker 9: So if you are operating that way.
Speaker 12: It's logical to do those things because that's how you
Speaker 12: survive in a capitalist economy.
Speaker 2: That's Malika Jabali. She's the author of It's Not You,
Speaker 2: It's Capitalism, Why It's Time to break Up and How
Speaker 2: to Move On. Head on over to our podcast feed
Speaker 2: to find out what Malika says about sharing the earnings
Speaker 2: from her book sales and which country she says is
Speaker 2: the best economic system. That answer may surprise you. That
Speaker 2: wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition of
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Coming up in our
Speaker 2: next hour, our latest cover story on the most important
Speaker 2: launch of Elon Musk's career. Except this one isn't rocket science.
Speaker 2: It's brain surgery. Don't worry, though, We're talking space travel too,
Speaker 2: because a new book explains what life on the red
Speaker 2: planet of Mars might actually be like and what it'll
Speaker 2: take to get there. This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm
Speaker 2: Tim Stanovex. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global
Speaker 2: business headlines are coming up right now.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven.
Speaker 2: Thirty Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend
Speaker 2: edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including our sit down with
Speaker 2: Martin Hoffman. He's the CFO and co CEO of On Holdings,
Speaker 2: and he explains what makes his company Sneakers unique and
Speaker 2: why they're taking a key slice of the sports world
Speaker 2: by storm. Plus, we discuss the promise in many possible
Speaker 2: perils of mankind's ultimate mission to colonize our neighboring planet.
Speaker 2: We're gonna speak with the co author of a brand
Speaker 2: new book, A City on Mars. But first up this
Speaker 2: hour the cover story of the latest edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week magazine. It's available on newstands now, at Bloomberg
Speaker 2: dot com and always on the Bloomberg terminal. It's a
Speaker 2: story about Elon Musk, and it's also the launching pad
Speaker 2: for a new Bloomberg podcast series, Elon Inc. Each week,
Speaker 2: our team of experts will dove into the global influence
Speaker 2: of the world's richest man, spanning the likes of Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink,
Speaker 2: the boring Company X, and more. This week's cover story
Speaker 2: looks at another one of Musk's firms, Neuralink, the brand
Speaker 2: implant company, is ready to start surgery after a key
Speaker 2: regulatory approval. The problem, it's still seeking volunteers for its
Speaker 2: first clinical trial. For more on what exactly Neuralink does
Speaker 2: and what a trial would entail, Let's bring in Bloomberg
Speaker 2: BusinessWeek features writer and acclaimed Musk biographer Ashley Vance joining
Speaker 2: us along with Bloomberg BusinessWeek editor Joel Weber. They joined
Speaker 2: us remotely while Carol and I were in New Orleans
Speaker 2: at the Wells Fargo Black Business Leader Summit on Tuesday.
Speaker 4: You can't touch a head, a human's head until you know,
Speaker 4: you get FDA approval, which Neuralink now has, so in
Speaker 4: the very near future, the company is going to actually
Speaker 4: start implanting devices in humans. And Ashley Vance has had
Speaker 4: an unprecedented front row as Neuralink has been developing this technology. Ashley,
Speaker 4: take us inside the company. I mean, Elon is known
Speaker 4: for doing bold things that you know, break open whole
Speaker 4: new industries. But this is sort of a test of
Speaker 4: Elon in a whole new way, now, right it.
Speaker 13: Is, you know, I mean, this is a guy we've
Speaker 13: seen with SpaceX, with Tesla. You know, they've accomplished incredible things,
Speaker 13: but they've had some pretty severe bumps along the way.
Speaker 13: SpaceX blew up its first three rockets to talk about
Speaker 13: a decade to figure out how to mass produce cars,
Speaker 13: and we're talking about brain implants here. This is something
Speaker 13: that really can't go wrong on the first go round.
Speaker 13: It's Neuralink is one, as we point out in the
Speaker 13: story of now dozens upon dozens of companies that are
Speaker 13: looking to do brain implants, spinal implants, mostly to help
Speaker 13: people in pretty dire circumstances paralyzed strokes, als.
Speaker 1: Things like that.
Speaker 13: So but you know, really this is the start of
Speaker 13: a very exciting field. Neuralink is as ambitious as zever
Speaker 13: with Elon's companies, but has a lot on the line
Speaker 13: with this first trial.
Speaker 4: So how does neuralinks device and approach differ from the
Speaker 4: other competitors who have a little bit of a head start.
Speaker 4: They'd already had FDA approval and have been doing human implants.
Speaker 4: So what's going to distinguish the Neuralink approach.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean there's a few things that the other companies. Yes,
Speaker 13: they're they've done amazing stuff. They're in bodies, I've been
Speaker 13: to Switzerland seen paralyzed people walking again with the spinal implant.
Speaker 13: The biggest difference here is it's full elon. You know,
Speaker 13: this implant is more powerful than the others by about
Speaker 13: a thousand times. It's much smaller. The other devices require
Speaker 13: you to have like a separate battery pack, a separate
Speaker 13: computing system that amplifies signals that's usually implanted in someone's body.
Speaker 13: With neuralink. They're going to cut a tiny hole out
Speaker 13: of somebody's skull, put have a robot to the surgery
Speaker 13: that puts these electrodes, these electronic threads into somebody's brain.
Speaker 13: And then the computing part, the computing part, the battery,
Speaker 13: the amplifier, all of that goes into that hole in
Speaker 13: the skull and then fits flush with your head and
Speaker 13: your skin goes over. You can't even really tell you've
Speaker 13: had it. And so it's this more powerful implant. It's
Speaker 13: miniaturized and it has the robot to try and turn
Speaker 13: this from like a one off type laboratory experiment into
Speaker 13: something that's repeatable.
Speaker 4: So walk us through what the timeline looks like like,
Speaker 4: where they are now and what's going to hopefully transpire
Speaker 4: for what they're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 13: Yeah, So the last time I was there was just
Speaker 13: about six weeks ago in Austin, where the company is
Speaker 13: moving a lot of its headquarters, and so they're already,
Speaker 13: you know, thousands of people have sort of signed up
Speaker 13: to get this implant, and now they're going through these
Speaker 13: applications to try and find the ideal candidate. Hopefully someone
Speaker 13: that's it is going to be someone who's paralyzed but
Speaker 13: is otherwise kind of young and overall healthy, and this
Speaker 13: could happen within the next couple of months. They've already
Speaker 13: identified a hospital in Arizona, which is where this is
Speaker 13: likely to take place, and so it's just trying right now,
Speaker 13: they're just finding the exact right candidate for this first trial.
Speaker 2: Where actually does this kind of fall on the Elon
Speaker 2: muster spectrum of priorities right now? Given that he has
Speaker 2: SpaceX Tesla, x slash, Twitter, the boring company, Neuralink, nine kids,
Speaker 2: x AI.
Speaker 4: Don't forget XAI, which you know got announced over the
Speaker 4: XAI Thank you.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a guy, you know, well Ashley, Like,
Speaker 2: where does this fall on his list of things that
Speaker 2: he wants to do? Like and he wants to be
Speaker 2: part of his legacy.
Speaker 13: It's pretty high up there. I mean he you know,
Speaker 13: all his companies always come with this we're going to
Speaker 13: save humanity kind of trapping, and this this fits into that.
Speaker 13: When it was first presented to the public, I mean
Speaker 13: he went straight for the AI sci fi We're gonna
Speaker 13: download Spanish and Kung Fu into our brains and and
Speaker 13: this this was going to be for everybody. Billions of
Speaker 13: people would get the same plant. You know, it's much
Speaker 13: clearer now that for the foreseeable future, this is to
Speaker 13: help people in sort of dire circumstances, and so he
Speaker 13: takes that mission pretty seriously. It's interesting he is not
Speaker 13: at Neuralink on anything like a day to day basis.
Speaker 13: I mean he shows up in my experience like once
Speaker 13: a month and gets these kind of debriefs on what's
Speaker 13: going on. And the company's essentially run by like a
Speaker 13: triumvirate of people.
Speaker 6: But do you think of people right who don't have
Speaker 6: that ability and are paralyzed if they could potentially have
Speaker 6: that capability going forward, that's pretty dramatic and life change.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 13: Just to make it clear, I mean, the initial goal
Speaker 13: with this right is to be able to think words
Speaker 13: that then go into a text message or a WhatsApp message,
Speaker 13: So you're communicating with your loved ones, you're communicating about
Speaker 13: your wants and needs and with the outside world. And
Speaker 13: the other goal is to be able to move a
Speaker 13: cursor around a computer screen and a very fluid fashion.
Speaker 13: And you know, as any of us can imagine, I mean,
Speaker 13: just having access to a computer unlocks you know, so
Speaker 13: many things that you can do. And so I mean
Speaker 13: this is it is like borderline miraculous type technology.
Speaker 4: So to that, and what are the sort of the
Speaker 4: use cases that the company sees the implant being able
Speaker 4: to solve in the short term and then a longer term,
Speaker 4: and like how big of a growth pattern could they
Speaker 4: see based on the amount of interest they've had from
Speaker 4: people who have said that they're willing to get an implant.
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, in the short term, nere Link is
Speaker 13: building off like decades of research here. So people have
Speaker 13: had the ability to think a couple words at a time,
Speaker 13: to click yes or no on a screen. But with
Speaker 13: this extra horsepower, they want it to be where you're
Speaker 13: thinking words almost as fast as one of us could
Speaker 13: type on a computer today. So that's kind of the
Speaker 13: near term goal being able to navigate on the screen.
Speaker 13: They also have a spinal implant that they're working on
Speaker 13: that would be paired with his brain implant, and the
Speaker 13: goal there is to restore movement in limbs and also
Speaker 13: feeling in limbs where you kind of short circuit or
Speaker 13: create a circuit really between your spine and the brain
Speaker 13: and from there, I mean, it moves. You know, I
Speaker 13: can talk about very futuristic stuff. It would be far off,
Speaker 13: but it's things like improving your hearing, improving your site
Speaker 13: and kind of you know, just anything that your brain controls,
Speaker 13: which is a lot.
Speaker 2: How promising Ashley is this? I mean, are we going
Speaker 2: to start seeing in your bestimation, in your opinion, will
Speaker 2: we start seeing the big healthcare companies try to get
Speaker 2: their hands on this type of technology.
Speaker 13: You know, if you look at the traditional device makers
Speaker 13: that do things like deep brain simulation for epilepsy and
Speaker 13: things like that, it's been a very very slow moving
Speaker 13: field where a device gets made, comes out of a
Speaker 13: research laboratory and hardly gets advanced at Things have totally changed, though.
Speaker 13: I mean, Neuralink again is one of at least thirty
Speaker 13: six other companies working on products in this field. So
Speaker 13: this thing, this whole field has moved from academia to
Speaker 13: hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars coming in from
Speaker 13: venture capitalists. And so I try not to get people's
Speaker 13: hopes up too much because we don't really know exactly
Speaker 13: how this is going to play out, if the products
Speaker 13: are going to live up to their potential. But there's
Speaker 13: such an explosion of interest here, and in my experience
Speaker 13: of seeing people with the spinal implants, you know, it's encouraging.
Speaker 13: I mean, this is even even in the limited forms
Speaker 13: of the technology right now, it's life changing for people
Speaker 13: who get these implants. And so so if we're anywhere
Speaker 13: close to the hype, it will be a dramatic next
Speaker 13: ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 2: That was Bloomberg BusinessWeek features writer Ashley Vance and BusinessWeek
Speaker 2: editor Joel Weber on this week's cover story. You're listening
Speaker 2: to Bloomberg business Week coming up. In addition to outfitting
Speaker 2: your brain with computer chips, Elon Musk also likes the
Speaker 2: idea of putting human beings on Mars and having them
Speaker 2: stay awhile, and though he may one day build the
Speaker 2: hardware to get us there plenty of challenges will remain.
Speaker 14: I think he's famously said that, you know, once the
Speaker 14: rockets have been figured out, the rest is going.
Speaker 9: To be easy.
Speaker 14: But I think the whole point of our book is
Speaker 14: that rockets are one hard part, but there's a lot
Speaker 14: of other hard parts.
Speaker 2: Kelly Wiener Smith is the co author of A City
Speaker 2: on Mars. She joins us on the other side. This
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: Live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 3: or wants us Live on YouTube.
Speaker 6: Well more than half a century after Neil Armstrong landed
Speaker 6: on the Moon, another space race is definitely heating up.
Speaker 6: We talk about it all the time. This time it's
Speaker 6: about the promising new frontier for US Earthlings.
Speaker 2: That's you and me, Mars, is it?
Speaker 7: I don't know?
Speaker 2: Okay, So NASA's got a rover up there. Elon Musk
Speaker 2: is trying to get SpaceX's Starship Rocket up to snuff
Speaker 2: with the ultimate goal of getting people to Mars. But
Speaker 2: kel the question remains, is it actually a good idea
Speaker 2: for us even to be thinking about going to Mars
Speaker 2: and colonizing space.
Speaker 6: I don't know Earth is, you know, having a rough time,
Speaker 6: so we might need another place to live anyway. This
Speaker 6: is the question of our next guest, who set out
Speaker 6: to answer it in her new book. Kelly Smith is
Speaker 6: the co author of City on Mars? Can we settle Space?
Speaker 6: Should we settle space? And have we really thought this through?
Speaker 6: She wrote this book with our husband, Zack, and she
Speaker 6: joins us on Zoom from it. Charlotte's develop Virginia Kelly,
Speaker 6: It's a subject we love to talk about. Elon Musk
Speaker 6: loves to talk about it so many people. I'm the
Speaker 6: daughter of a rocket scientist. I love talking about this stuff.
Speaker 6: Tell us about this book. What you set out to
Speaker 6: do with your husband.
Speaker 14: Zach Well, So, after writing our first book together, we
Speaker 14: thought that space settlements might be a near term possibility,
Speaker 14: something that might happen in our lifetimes, and so we
Speaker 14: set out to write the guide for what the next
Speaker 14: couple decades are going to be like as we become
Speaker 14: a multiplanetary species. And after four years of research, we
Speaker 14: essentially determined that we are not ready to take this
Speaker 14: on yet. We don't know enough about a lot of
Speaker 14: different topics. I'm happy to get into them, and that
Speaker 14: actually depress into it. There could be a lot of problems.
Speaker 2: What do you Okay, so talk to me about the idea,
Speaker 2: like the time frames that you're thinking of.
Speaker 14: If it happens in our lifetimes, I think that might
Speaker 14: be a problem. So, for example, we don't know nearly
Speaker 14: enough about how space impacts the human body. It turns
Speaker 14: out data from the International Space Station don't tell us
Speaker 14: what we need to know.
Speaker 9: About humans living on Mars.
Speaker 14: So I think if we sent them there, there could
Speaker 14: be a lot of ethical problems, especially if they started
Speaker 14: making families and you know, exposing children to these environments
Speaker 14: that we don't understand very well sounds like a problem.
Speaker 14: And as you mentioned, there might be a race with
Speaker 14: China starting.
Speaker 2: Okay, so hm, let's think about some of the challenges
Speaker 2: that we're not talking about just like you know, logistical
Speaker 2: things like actually having families, we're talking about things that
Speaker 2: are pretty serious, like okay, once you get there, how
Speaker 2: do you get back?
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're talking about poop food and closing the loop.
Speaker 2: Yeah you said it, Carol, That's what I really wanted
Speaker 2: to get too, Okay, so just go for it. Carol's fault.
Speaker 14: Sorry, So closed loop ecosystems. Basically, if you're going to
Speaker 14: be living on Mars, it's going to be really expensive
Speaker 14: to get resources to you from Earth and for a
Speaker 14: long time, it's going to be really hard to extract
Speaker 14: resources from Mars.
Speaker 9: And Mars is a two year trip there and back.
Speaker 14: It's six months to get there and then you're stuck
Speaker 14: there for a while until Earth sort of comes back
Speaker 14: around again, and then it's six months to get home.
Speaker 9: So you need to have a system that does not.
Speaker 14: Break for at least two years and ideally recycles things,
Speaker 14: and we just do not have that technology figured out yet.
Speaker 9: There was bios here too, which is sort of well
Speaker 9: known as being a bit of a catastrophe.
Speaker 14: And then they're like, right now, we've got facilities in China,
Speaker 14: for example, that try to run these experiments and in
Speaker 14: a recent round they had to swap out two big
Speaker 14: guys for two smaller females because they weren't making enough oxygen.
Speaker 9: That's where we are right now.
Speaker 14: If that happened on Mars, that would be death instead
Speaker 14: of just swapping out crew members.
Speaker 2: Do you think we're actually like, is Elon Musk the
Speaker 2: guy who's going to do this after doing all this research?
Speaker 2: Is he the one who's going to be able to
Speaker 2: do this?
Speaker 9: I hope not.
Speaker 14: So I have to admit I am very impressed with
Speaker 14: what Elon Musk has done with SpaceX and what he's
Speaker 14: done with Tesla, and I am coming to you right
Speaker 14: now from a Starlink connection, and so I love his projects.
Speaker 14: I don't think that he's the best person to lead
Speaker 14: us to becoming a multiplanetary species, but I'm not that
Speaker 14: worried about it because I think his timelines are way off.
Speaker 14: He's I think he's famously said that, you know, once,
Speaker 14: once the rockets have been figured out, the rest is
Speaker 14: going to be easy. But I think the whole point
Speaker 14: of our book is that rockets are one hard part,
Speaker 14: but there's a lot of other hard parts, from figuring out,
Speaker 14: you know, the biology, to building the habitats that are
Speaker 14: still sustaining, to figure out the geopolitical hurdles that stand
Speaker 14: in our way.
Speaker 9: There's a lot more than just rockets.
Speaker 14: And so I don't think Mars is going to be
Speaker 14: leading our Musk is going to be leading us out
Speaker 14: there in our lifetimes.
Speaker 6: Hey, Kelly, you have fun with this in the book,
Speaker 6: you and your husband. I mean, you get a PhD
Speaker 6: in ecology. You are a faculty member in the biosciences
Speaker 6: department at Rice Universities, so you're a serious You've got
Speaker 6: a serious side, but you have fun with this. Why
Speaker 6: was it important to lay this out? Is it because
Speaker 6: people are focusing too much time, money, and effort on
Speaker 6: this one. Maybe it doesn't quite make sense yet or
Speaker 6: may never Well.
Speaker 14: Well, so, I mean we started the book thinking that
Speaker 14: it maybe did makes sense, But the more research we did,
Speaker 14: the more we discovered that there's a lot of a
Speaker 14: lot of topics that aren't getting, you know, for enough
Speaker 14: airtime and enough of people's attention, and the topics, you know,
Speaker 14: maybe don't sound as exciting as rockets and rocket science,
Speaker 14: and they're just sort of like boring, long term work
Speaker 14: that needs to be done to try to understand things
Speaker 14: like how partial gravity impacts bone development across you know.
Speaker 9: The course of a lifetime.
Speaker 14: And we decided that we wanted to be funny in
Speaker 14: this book because we wanted to get really deep into
Speaker 14: the details. So, for example, there's five chapters on international
Speaker 14: law as it pertains to space, and when we pitch
Speaker 14: that to our editor, she's like, I don't know that
Speaker 14: the general public is dying for five chapters on international law,
Speaker 14: so you better make it funny.
Speaker 9: And so we tried to do that.
Speaker 10: Okay.
Speaker 2: So when you're when you're thinking about what life actually
Speaker 2: looks like on on other planets, is it something that
Speaker 2: humans should actually pursue if the timeframe actually gives us
Speaker 2: enough time? Or should we focus on I don't know,
Speaker 2: making the most of the Earth that we've got.
Speaker 14: So I think that space is not going to be
Speaker 14: a near term solution for any of the problems that
Speaker 14: we have here on Earth. So you know, for example,
Speaker 14: folks like Bezos argue that we should move all of
Speaker 14: our heavy industry to space so that we're not polluting
Speaker 14: Earth anymore, and maybe we can you know, zone Earth
Speaker 14: as light residential. We'll move a bunch of people up
Speaker 14: to space too. I think the numbers just don't work
Speaker 14: out for stuff like that. So, you know, if you
Speaker 14: think about moving humans off the planet to take care
Speaker 14: of population growth issues, you have to move two hundred
Speaker 14: and twenty thousand people to space every day. I don't
Speaker 14: know where you're going to get those volunteers, and we
Speaker 14: don't even know how to house them. So I think
Speaker 14: any problem that we're likely tears. He's looking for volunteers,
Speaker 14: and I think he'll get a lot. I don't know
Speaker 14: if he's going to get that many, and again we
Speaker 14: don't have anywhere to put them because we don't know
Speaker 14: how to keep that many people alive in space. But
Speaker 14: if you're interested in a backup for humanity, I think
Speaker 14: a long term plan B could be good. So you know,
Speaker 14: if you start the settlement on Mars now many generations
Speaker 14: from now, it might be self sustaining. And if you
Speaker 14: like humans, which I do, that it might be good
Speaker 14: to have a backup in case something happens on Earth.
Speaker 14: But it's not going to save us anytime.
Speaker 6: Soon, Kelly. One thing I would argue, though, is that
Speaker 6: many would say that the race to put a man
Speaker 6: on the Moon led to lots of innovation, Tan Belcer,
Speaker 6: I know you're gonna get there, no, but some really
Speaker 6: really important developments.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 6: It really kind of brought nations together, scientists together on
Speaker 6: a single mission, but it led to so much many
Speaker 6: offshoots off of that wouldn't Similarly, the pursuit of Mars
Speaker 6: maybe lead to that as well, and it's a good
Speaker 6: kind of thing to focus on and have a goal of,
Speaker 6: as difficult as it may be.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So I think that's an interesting point.
Speaker 14: But so, you know, you talked about countries being brought
Speaker 14: together by the Apollo program, but the Apollo program was
Speaker 14: really fueled by a rift between the Soviet Union and
Speaker 14: the United States. JFK was sort of famously not even
Speaker 14: actually that interested in space, but it was a very
Speaker 14: clear thing that we could do to beat the Soviets.
Speaker 14: And you know, it's a military prestige thing. The rockets
Speaker 14: that you're sending those humans to space and could also
Speaker 14: be delivering you know, missiles, And so I think a
Speaker 14: lot of times going to space is not necessarily about
Speaker 14: bringing people together and the new technologies. Historically it has
Speaker 14: also been about trying to show up our enemies, and
Speaker 14: that might be what drives us to.
Speaker 9: Mars or to the moon again.
Speaker 14: You know, competition with China is heating up at the moment,
Speaker 14: and I think we should you know, yes, yes, it
Speaker 14: might drive innovation and that's exciting, but we need to
Speaker 14: weigh that against you know, concerns with how this sort
Speaker 14: of this conflict might you know, spark problems down on Earth.
Speaker 9: But yes, you know, you might get some.
Speaker 14: New technologies, but there's other things you could invest in
Speaker 14: to get these new technologies too.
Speaker 2: That's Kelly Wiener Smith. She's the co author of A
Speaker 2: City on Mars? Can we Settle Space? Should we settle Space?
Speaker 2: And have we really thought this through? She wrote the
Speaker 2: book with her husband Zach and that book just out
Speaker 2: this week. Still to come. On Bloomberg Business Week, we
Speaker 2: come back from the Cosmos and examine a company doing
Speaker 2: big things here on Earth by keeping our feet comfortably
Speaker 2: on the ground on Holding CFO and co CEO Martin
Speaker 2: Hoffman on the Shoemaker's success and unusual business model. This
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Well on the tennis court, the Shoes Grace, the feed
Speaker 2: of US Open semi finalist Ben Shelton. The company is
Speaker 2: also working with world number one igesh Fiatec to develop
Speaker 2: the perfect custom shoe for her. And of course the
Speaker 2: tennis legend Roger Fetter has invested in the company. And
Speaker 2: the company, by the way, the ADR is the church
Speaker 2: traded here in the US, Carol. They're up nearly seventy
Speaker 2: percent so far this year.
Speaker 6: You can hear a lot and see a lot about
Speaker 6: the company and it's chief financial officer. It's all in
Speaker 6: a new edition of a Chief Future Officer on Bloomberg
Speaker 6: Television that has aired. We're talking about on Holding, the
Speaker 6: Switzerland based parent company of Anshoes, and we've got with
Speaker 6: us here at Martin Hoffman. He's chief financial officer.
Speaker 8: He's also co.
Speaker 6: CEO of on Hooldings, which is really kind of fascinating.
Speaker 6: You guys work around the world. How would you describe
Speaker 6: kind of the business environment and the job market for
Speaker 6: you guys? Is it easy to get the workers that
Speaker 6: you need?
Speaker 15: I mean generally business is very good, so demand remains
Speaker 15: very high. Of course it's not on record highs, but
Speaker 15: we bring out a lot of innovation, a lot of
Speaker 15: new products in all the different categories. So from running
Speaker 15: spoke about tennis outdoor and then also every day and
Speaker 15: finding people is easy and hard, so it's hard to
Speaker 15: find the right people. We really pay a lot of
Speaker 15: attention on culture because that's super important for us. At
Speaker 15: the same time, this year we had about four hundred people.
Speaker 15: For that we get about forty thousand applications, so we
Speaker 15: can be very selective, which makes it easier to find
Speaker 15: it right.
Speaker 2: Where are those are those where are those jobs available?
Speaker 2: Where are you hiring those people?
Speaker 15: So we are a global company, so our team sits
Speaker 15: around the world. Of course, surric is the biggest office,
Speaker 15: so we have about two thousand people now, seven hundred
Speaker 15: of those are in Surich. Berlin is a big up
Speaker 15: for us, especially on the technology side. Portland is our
Speaker 15: big US office.
Speaker 2: Shoe companies in Portland, Yeah, I mean, okay, Adidas is there,
Speaker 2: Nike's there.
Speaker 15: Is the silicon value of the sports industry, yeah yeah,
Speaker 15: but for us.
Speaker 2: Is it is it? But are you there? Because people
Speaker 2: who've worked in the industry, you want them to come
Speaker 2: work for you and you know they have experienced there.
Speaker 15: Now it's actually it was more coincidence. So our first
Speaker 15: sales director in the US he lived in Portland, so
Speaker 15: that's why we started there. We thought, yeah, we tap
Speaker 15: into the pool of the industry. But I think our
Speaker 15: first twenty hires were not from the industry, which will
Speaker 15: actually quite good because it helped us to do things
Speaker 15: differently and to disrupt. Of course, now is this is
Speaker 15: this is changing. I had a pleasure to live there
Speaker 15: for two years and when we started a brand, I
Speaker 15: moved over and helped building. It's the great city, that's.
Speaker 6: How do you guys, I mean, you guys have a
Speaker 6: very distinct approach and you talk about innovation, and I
Speaker 6: feel like it's a it's a big industry, it's a
Speaker 6: competitive industry. There's a fair amount of entrance in it.
Speaker 6: Talk to for those who might not be familiar about
Speaker 6: how you guys distinguish yourself from the rest.
Speaker 15: So if you see the shoes, many of the shoes
Speaker 15: have the holes and the outside, which is one of
Speaker 15: the office design marks that we that we have, and
Speaker 15: this allows us to really engineer how the sol and
Speaker 15: the shoe behaves. So it's not just the material that
Speaker 15: we use, it's also the shape and the size of
Speaker 15: the of the holes.
Speaker 10: And then and.
Speaker 15: From that we developed the whole concept, including the speedboard
Speaker 15: that is in the shoe, but then also of coross
Speaker 15: the materials. It's a lot about sustainability and and then
Speaker 15: always combining design and performance with sustainability is super important
Speaker 15: for us.
Speaker 6: Do you get your shoe on an athlete and noticed,
Speaker 6: do you you see the direct connection in terms of
Speaker 6: sales and the impact that that has on the brand.
Speaker 15: Yeah, we we call this the strategy that we have.
Speaker 15: There is lightning and rain. So lightning is really all
Speaker 15: about the making, making it strike and allowing those athletes
Speaker 15: to perform on the highest level. But then it of course,
Speaker 15: the goal is that the every day runner also recognizes
Speaker 15: that and versus the shoes, it's not the same shoe.
Speaker 15: It needs to it needs to perform differently. But yeah,
Speaker 15: clearly we see we see it, and this is why
Speaker 15: we invest in that. We have built our own athlete team,
Speaker 15: which is called an Athletic club, and we have seen
Speaker 15: so many great results this year, and the same is
Speaker 15: happening in tennis, so of course, and Shelton being in
Speaker 15: the semi finals in the US Open was such a
Speaker 15: big moment. Now he won his first at puh in
Speaker 15: In in Tokyo, because we had one again in Beijing,
Speaker 15: so it's it's just amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carolyn, I actually got to go to the US year.
Speaker 2: We broadcast from there each year and it was it
Speaker 2: was great to see, especially the young Americans makes such
Speaker 2: a mark this year. Okay, so the manufacturing process for
Speaker 2: the shoes, where are the shoes made Vietnam, Switzerland.
Speaker 15: Yeah, so all the shoes are developed in Switzerland, so
Speaker 15: we have a big development team there. Production is predominantly
Speaker 15: in Vietnam for footwear, for for power. We also have
Speaker 15: parts in Europe, parts in China, but really Vietnam has
Speaker 15: developed the capabilities to manufacture the best high performing footwear
Speaker 15: in in the world, and so that's why we're there.
Speaker 2: Do you have to have a do you have a
Speaker 2: contract manufacturer there? Is that how it works? Or do
Speaker 2: you guys have to build your own facility.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 15: We we worked with with factory partners, so we don't
Speaker 15: run our own factors. We have our own people in
Speaker 15: the factory to to make sure that the quality is
Speaker 15: there and really translating the technology into into manufacturing. But
Speaker 15: but it's a it's quite a complex process. So I
Speaker 15: mean a shoe goes through almost two hundred and fifty
Speaker 15: hens before it's it's done, So there a lot of
Speaker 15: pieces in the shoe and and so that's you need
Speaker 15: to have good partners and we have those and they
Speaker 15: invest with us also in sustainable manufacturing. You know, how
Speaker 15: can you how can you reduce the emission of the
Speaker 15: of the manufacturing itself.
Speaker 6: That's really part of the culture. I know, you know,
Speaker 6: the idea of the athlete, right because the company was
Speaker 6: for you know, created, so that is a big part
Speaker 6: of your culture. But sustainability is too, and talk to
Speaker 6: us a little bit about that.
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's it's like this the third pillar of our DNA,
Speaker 15: so I said it performance, design, sustainability. Those are the
Speaker 15: three things. It's it's it's at the heart of what
Speaker 15: we do. We have a very young team, so it
Speaker 15: comes very natural from from the inside. And for us,
Speaker 15: it's it's all about developing shoes that are made for circularity.
Speaker 15: I think this is the big the big goal of
Speaker 15: the of the industry.
Speaker 6: Well and the subscription service, right kind of exactly.
Speaker 15: And I mean we created the first shoe that is
Speaker 15: fully circular, made out of castor bean, so it's also
Speaker 15: not actually fuel based. And and yeah, so we we
Speaker 15: said this is a shoe that you should never own.
Speaker 15: So we only made it available in a subscription model,
Speaker 15: so you you rent it, you pay a monthly fee,
Speaker 15: you use the shoe, and when using the shoe is
Speaker 15: ready to be returned, then we take it back and
Speaker 15: send a new pair. And this is the beginning of
Speaker 15: a journey for us. We will be expanding the technology
Speaker 15: into into more models. Another angle that we had is
Speaker 15: what we call clean cloud is actually using carbon from
Speaker 15: from the air and making a shoe out of that.
Speaker 15: And and here we actually much faster in bringing that
Speaker 15: into into mass market in the in the near future.
Speaker 2: Do you do you ever see that you could go
Speaker 2: fully subscription with with the shoes and nobody would buy
Speaker 2: the issues.
Speaker 15: I think you need to offer different business models with
Speaker 15: your with your with your sustainable products. So I think
Speaker 15: in the end the goal is that as many people
Speaker 15: as possible by the products and by sustainable products, right,
Speaker 15: you don't want to restrict this by by a model.
Speaker 15: But at the same time you also want to encourage
Speaker 15: the customer to return the product. And so this is
Speaker 15: this is where we spend a lot of energy and
Speaker 15: our our cycling program gives us so many insights into
Speaker 15: how the customer reacts and what does it take for
Speaker 15: them to return it. And and it's also such an
Speaker 15: incredible moment in the life cycle of the of the
Speaker 15: relationship with the customer because it's clear indication I need
Speaker 15: a new pair, so you want to engage with the customer.
Speaker 6: Then how many people are doing that right now? And
Speaker 6: it's kind of a trial right right now, But how
Speaker 6: many people are doing these subscriptions?
Speaker 15: So we are at about Serdi Sauson's subscriptions.
Speaker 10: At the moment.
Speaker 2: That's Martin Hoffman. He's the chief financial Officer and co
Speaker 2: CEO of On Holdings. He joined me and Carolyn Studio
Speaker 2: ahead of his appearance in the New York City Marathon
Speaker 2: last Sunday. By the way, Martin completed it in just
Speaker 2: under three hours and forty one minutes. You can hear
Speaker 2: more about the strategy at On and the company's omni
Speaker 2: channel approach just head on over to our podcast feed,
Speaker 2: And of course, Martin is the subject of the latest
Speaker 2: edition of Chief Future Officer on Bloomberg. You can view
Speaker 2: that entire program on our YouTube page. You're listening to
Speaker 2: Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Coming up, Sustainability the old fashioned way.
Speaker 16: When we look at what's really happening with recycling today
Speaker 16: we see a huge opportunity for improvement.
Speaker 2: We speak with Keith Harrison, founder and CEO of the
Speaker 2: Recycling Partnership. When we return.
Speaker 1: This is bloom You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen.
Speaker 3: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: And the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us Live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Well, the numbers, Carol, are not pretty. Less than a
Speaker 2: quarter of the two ninety two point four million tons
Speaker 2: of municipal solid waste reader trash that was generated back
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen was recycled. That's according to the latest
Speaker 2: figures from the US EPA. Actually it's kind of more
Speaker 2: than I thought it would be.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and our next guest actually thinks we can do
Speaker 6: a lot better. Keith Harrison is the founder and CEO
Speaker 6: of the Recycling Partnership. It's an industry funded nonprofit that
Speaker 6: advocates for improving recycling infrastructure and accessibility. The Recycling Partnership
Speaker 6: says it over the last eight years, it's diverted seven
Speaker 6: hundred and seventy million pounds of new recyclables from landfills,
Speaker 6: which has avoided more than six hundred and seventy thousand
Speaker 6: metric tons of greenhouse gases, and Keith joins us on
Speaker 6: Zoom from Washington, DC.
Speaker 2: That's legit. That's a lot of a lot of greenhouse
Speaker 2: gases that have been avoided. Keith, thanks so much for
Speaker 2: joining us. I love talking about recycling because I think
Speaker 2: that there are so many I'm composting, got the garbage
Speaker 2: disposal to separating, you know, here in New York, we
Speaker 2: got to separate everything into you know, it's not single stream.
Speaker 2: But one thing that Carol and I were surprised to
Speaker 2: learn recently is specifically about plastics and to what extent
Speaker 2: plastics are not actually recyclable because a lot of people
Speaker 2: have this misconception that if they recycle it, then it
Speaker 2: just gets reused and made into something else, which is beautiful.
Speaker 6: And if we see that thing on the bottom that
Speaker 6: like circular, we think, okay, cares about the number in
Speaker 6: there exactly?
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, you know what.
Speaker 16: There's been a lot of recycling has been in the
Speaker 16: news a lot lately, and some of the stories are
Speaker 16: really depressing. And I want to start with the story
Speaker 16: of hope that it's not working exactly as we needed to,
Speaker 16: But we can fix the sucker and then that then
Speaker 16: we'll have something else to talk about on the other side.
Speaker 16: So when we look at what really happening with recycling today,
Speaker 16: we see a huge opportunity for improvement. We see that
Speaker 16: seven out of ten cardboard boxes and up in the trash.
Speaker 16: That's very similar to seven out of ten pet bottles
Speaker 16: and glass bottles also end up in the trash.
Speaker 9: Is that fixable?
Speaker 7: Yes?
Speaker 9: What happens when we do.
Speaker 16: Even more carbon savings?
Speaker 6: As you outline, we talk a lot about trash here,
Speaker 6: you know, Carol talks a lot of trash.
Speaker 2: That's what happens.
Speaker 6: I do that too, Sorry, guilty as charged, No, but
Speaker 6: I do wonder about, you know, the impact of landfills
Speaker 6: and garbage. Just remind everybody about the impact that they
Speaker 6: have on the environment.
Speaker 16: Yes, landfills are purposely made to keep out air and
Speaker 16: sun and rain. We purposely cap them, We encapsulate them
Speaker 16: actually in plastic to keep things from breaking down because
Speaker 16: when they break down without air, light and rain, it
Speaker 16: creates methane. That anaerobic state inside of a landfill creates methane. However, well,
Speaker 16: although the intent is to prevent things from breaking down.
Speaker 16: They still do, and in fact, landfills are one of
Speaker 16: the biggest emitters of landfill of methane, which is one
Speaker 16: of our strongest and most potent greenhouse gases.
Speaker 2: So we should all be composting, is what you're saying,
Speaker 2: back to the content rate.
Speaker 9: Yes, actually, food waste is.
Speaker 16: The EPA just released a really good report about the
Speaker 16: role of food waste and organics. So banana peels and
Speaker 16: your yard trimming. Trimming is what happens when those in
Speaker 16: land and landfill. But it's also you know, things that
Speaker 16: naturally break down like fiber, paper products and things like that.
Speaker 16: So we have to be really careful before we casually
Speaker 16: toss something into a landfill because it is directly connected
Speaker 16: to the climate.
Speaker 2: That was Keith Harrison, founder and CEO of the Recycling Partnership.
Speaker 2: More from keif on the impact of policy and helping
Speaker 2: us generate less can be found on our podcast feed.
Speaker 2: And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business
Speaker 2: Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
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Speaker 2: Have a good and safe weekend everyone. For Carol Masser,
Speaker 2: I'm Tim Stenovic. Stay with us. Today's top stories and
Speaker 2: global business headlines are coming up right now.
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